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assessment. >> it depends hon how you look at it. the trup organization is being indicted today is enormously devastating, not only to that organization but it has to be to the president because think about it like this, guys, no bank, no lender is going to want to do business with the trump organization any more. those loans, they're going to come calling much less before this goes to trial but just with the indictment itself. and so the trump organization itself may actually had a v to go into bankruptcy because of this. and so even if it is not jail time for the president, which of course the personal liability would be worse, it is enormously consequential to have his company go down for something like this. >> eli, i know you've said that cases like this normally are pursued in civil court as opposed to criminal court but i do want to zero in on what is involved here. because paying perks of this size and trying to avoid taxes on them, we're not talking about