David you get a standing ovation for what youve do . Satya no, i get a lot of people asking me, hey, look, come home and fix my compute [laughter] woman would you fix your tie, please . David well, people wouldnt rognize me if my tie was fixed, but ok. Just leave it this way. David i dont consider myself a journalist. And nobody else would li consider myself a jour. I began to take on the life of being an interviewer even though i have a day job of running how do you define leadership . What is it that makes somebody tick . Youve now had to follow bill gates d steve ballmer, two legendary figures. Did you feel at that time that y were really ready for the job following those legends, or were you saying, i can do a better job than they did . Satya the best advice i got from both bill and steve i think helped me a lot. E their clear message was, dont try to be like us. Dont even bot sort of say, oh, leim succeeding these pe just be your own. In fact, i remember very distinctly, even during the interview process the board was conducting, they asked me, hey, do you want to the ceo . And i said, only if you want me to be the ceo. And the feedback i got was but people who want to be ceos are like, i want to be ceo. I said, look, thats not me. I remember wm going and talking to steve, and he says, yeah, just be yourself. Its too late to change. David since you have been the ceo 3 1 2 years, the stock is up about, i guess its about 120 . When you go to your annual shareholder meetings, do you get a standing ovation for what yve done . Satya no, i get a lot of people asking me, hey, look, come home and fix my computer. You are an native of india. What part of india . Satya i was bn in hyderabad, which is in the central part of india. And so, growing up, your parents doted on you, i assume . Satya yeah, they did. David and they told you you in were going to be primeter or something important in the country. Wh david they just wanted me to stop playing cricket and take my studies a little more seriously. David you were an avid cricket player, is that right . David and when did you realize you werent gonna be a professional cricket player . Satya pretty soon. [laughter] quickly, i realized that at best i would play, you know, what is considered perhaps firstclass cricket in india, but i was not going to go much furer than that. But, you know, thats when my dad, in fact i remember one of the Big Decisions that changed my life was my entire outlook was roial en i remember one of i look back at it, that which is, hey, i want to stay in hyderabad, maybe study ecs and Political Science and work for a bank. He looks at me and he says, what are you doing . T you got to get this place. And so, he pushed me out to get to an engineering school, and that pretty much, of course, you know, define the trajectory afterwas. David your father was a member of the senior civil service, wh an important position, i guess, in india, is tharight . Satya yeah. My dad was a very different guy than me in tms of, let me say, his academic prowess, which is always humorous whichyou look at my report cards and he says, oh, i couldnt i dont understand how anybody can have these kinds of marks. Andbut the nice thing about it wahe would say it in such endearing ways, that hed never make me feel bad. David you mean the marks werent high enough or werent satya not high enough. David they werent high enough. Satya because yeah, th he didnt ace, as he would say. David ok. Satya and so,e was it was astounding to me that he would have a son who couldnt ace an exam. David your father is still alive . Satya yes. David he mu be very proud of what you have achieved. Satya not enough. [laughter] david so, you went to college in india, graduate school in the united states. Satya yeah. David so, where did you go . Satya i went to the university of wisconsin in miaukee for my cn puter thats wswitched from Electrical Engineering to computer science. David but, youre in india, university of wisconsinmilwaukee cant be that wellknown there, so, how did you happen to wind up there . Satya i had never been west of bombay, quite frankly, an mthen i showed up waukee. [laughter] david did you have a winter coat or satya ha ryhat was my first alued possession in life, va winter coat, which y important. Unfortunately, i picked up this bad habit of smoking in india, in college. And the one nice thingl bout going to sch milwaukee is you are a smoker, you have to go out in the winter and smoke. And that one winter in milwaukee cured me of my smoking habit. [laughter] david wow. Good. So, you got a job after you graduated, at n microsystems. And what was youjob there . Satya i was a software developer. David ok. And then you got recruited to go to another company calledicrosoft. And that was in 1992 . Satya thats right. David so, but you also to the university of Chicago School of business, so, hoo did you decide toe or the other . Satya you know, quite frankly, david, i was very committ to say, i want to go to the business school, mayb g who knows, maybe evto wall street. That was sort of my david the highest calling of mankindright . [laughter] [laughter] david right, right. Satya and i thought, wow, maybe thats wt i should do. And then somewhere along the line, i started talking to people. And they said, hey, why would you do that . Youre in tech. It wasits an amazing time because windows nt, which eventually became our server business and what have you, was just starting out. And i subsequently wenand did f parttime and other courses, and actually finished my mba, which i find stunning. David so, you were commuting, in other words. You were working, and then on ekends youre commuting to agthe university of ch and that mustve taken a lot of energy to do both. Right . Satya it was crazy. In fact, i remember, see, there was this scheme i had concocted, which is you havicto buy your planets, right . And theyre pretty expensive if youo round trip. So, you would buy these overlapping tickets on the weekends, and i would sort of program them. So, that was the First Program i wrote, ha ha, was to say, let me buy these overlapping tickets, and it worked out. David you couldnt just give me some extra money to pay for this . That didnt happen . Satya no. In ngct, one of the ti did was, nobody knew i was even doing it because i de hey, look, let me just do this so that most people are thinking, what the heck is this guy . Hes supposed to be working. Whhi is he doing withthing . And its only when i think i was more or less done when even the people i was working for knew that i was doing it. So, youre beginning your ascent up, but youre dealing with some personal issues. Your firth child was born erebral palsy. He is now 21 years old. Th so, how did you realiz was going to change your life and how hat you dealt with tsue . Satya yeah, even i was 29 years old when zain, our son, was born. And if you had even asked me maybe even an hour before he was born what was going through my head, it was all about, oh, is the nursery going to be ready . Whats going to happen to our weekends now that we have a son . En will anu, my wife, get back to a job . And so on. But obviously, everything changed that night. He was bcause of an undetected in utero distress, asphyxiation, with severe brain damage, and at led to cerebral palsyand he. The first, i would say maybe even two years or more even, i was more about, why did this happen to me . Al what happened to us anof these plans that i had are now have all been thrown up in the air and chged . Whereas anu, my wife, what came naturally to her as a mother was she said, ok, im not going back to my j. Im going to really care for my son, drive him around for and i waat. Without schooling me, i got schooled. Nothing happened to me. To underthat, realize that, see life through his eyes, and then do my duty as a father. At, to me, perhaps, you know, didnt come in one moment. Its something that i think took time, both as, obviously, a parent, but also who i am toda e and how i approarything. David now, your wife is trained as an architect . Tya thats right. David and she given up doing that for a while . Satya thats right. David now, you have two ughters. One of your daughters has severe learning disabilities as well. And how did that affect you and your wife . Satya in fact, one of the things that happened because of our son was we built up a Tremendous Community of people, whether it was therapists, or other parents of children with disabilities. And so we were involved in that community. By the time our youngest daughter came into our lives, i must say we had the richness of this community to support us, and when we recognized very early on, anu and i, and anu in particular was very quick to realize that she would need addional help,d so, we found this scho actually, in vancouver, b. C. , which was all around neuroplasticity. The idea was you can train your brain to learn, sort of compensating. And sowe decided that, you know what, we are going to move the family to vancouver. Zain was going to stay with me in seattle my daughters and my wife were going to live in vancouver and we were going to commute again over the weekends. But the thing that, that all, quite honestly, at is where it came l naturally to us, because in some sense, zain had taught us what it takes to give, you know, people with disabilities the best shot, and so, its something that we took on. David and your son lives with you now. Satya es. David and one of the qualities that you say you got from all this was empathy. And that the result of having empathy made you a better c and a better person. Is that fair . Satya yeah. In fact, when i look at empathy, and mople think empathy is just something that you reserve, you know, for your life and your family and your friends or what have y, but the reality is, i think its an existential priority for a business. Because you look at it, like what is our business . Business is to meeunmet, unarticulated needs of customers. There is no way our innovation t unmet, unarticulated needs is going to come about if we dont listen. Not just listen to the words, but go deep to understand what the needs are behind it. So, i think empathy is core tor innovation, and life ence, if you listeacand you learn from, s you. I wouldnt claim, and ive sort of even talked about it, any innate capability of empathy that i was born with. If anything, its life that has taught me. D if anything, my pursuit is every year, is thereem growing sense of thy for people around me . David youre rising up in microsoft. Youre running the Business Solutions division at one point, but then they say to you, we would like you to run the sear b business, callg, and did you say, you cant compete against google. I donwant to do that . Or did you say, no, im happy to do that . Satya ha you know, it was i had just been promoted to lead our Business Solutions team and, i mean, i was loving that job. Its something that id aspired to do. And steve cos,s around and he shey, you know what, i have an idea for you. I thinkou should go run this group thats got high attrition and we have a very tough task ahead. And i donoo know whether its acareer move, but i need help and, you know, think wisely and choose. [laughter] and i was like, wow, this is an interesting choice in front of me. And i remeery distinctly, you know, going that night to the building, in which the bing team edour search team was ho and it was what, maybe 9 00 or so, and the parking lot was full, people were in. And i said, wow, whats the deal here . I mean, these people are alike, working ha inspired, and so, i said, well, i got to join this team. I got to like, the fight that they showed caused me to not take the easy path and get in. David did steve say, if you do this well, well be happy. If you dont do it well, you might t get another job . Satya thats correct. That was you know, steve wasone of the things that ismazing on both bill and steve is their candor. Its not like they sugarcoat anything. They are very, very honest about and those arevery lucky. If you do a good job, maybe you will have another job. If not, you wont. David so, you did a pretty good job, and then they came alo and asked you to run another business which was not that competitive at the time, and thatour Cloud Computing business. How did it happen that amazon, which was not a Computer Company more or less, became a giant in cloud, and microsoft, right nearby, wasnt a giant there . Satya the interesting thing is what happens when a Company Becomes successful is this that gets created between your concept of product, your capability, and your culture, right . You really have all these things fall into gear and theyre working super well, but then what happens is the concept that made you successful runs out of gas. Its not growing anymo. You now need new capability, and in order to have that new capability, you need a culture that allows you to grow that new capability. We, our server business was growing strong double digits, it was a highmargin business, and you look around, you know, on the other side of the lake here is a very lowmargin business called the cloud, and people look at that and say, why would we do that wngn we have such an amafastgrowing, highmargin busiss . And that, i think, is the challenge. And so, to be able to see the secular trends long before they become conventional wisdom change your business model, change your technology, and change the product is the challenge of business. Tech is unforgiving, but quite frankly, now that tech is part of everbusiness, i think all of us have to deal with it. David s get to be the ceo of this company. Youre following two legendary figures. How do you go to them and say, by the way, a lot of things you d, i dont want to do anymore. Im going to change things . Satya i was a consummate insider, right . T 25 years, 22 years or so when i became ceo. Growing up in the company that bill and steve built, i understood like the back of my palm all the things we got right and all the things we got wrong. And i had a point of vieo on what i wanted if i was going to become ceo. Ofwe now need to make micr thrive in a mobile first ancloud first world. It was not about trying to criticize our past or praise the past, it was about what doe do in the future. David so, when youre trying to change the culture, which you did, and ill talk about that in a moment, did people say theyre gonna call bill gates and say, you cant do that or look what hes doing and this is not what were about . That didnt . Nobody ran to bill or steve . Satya you know, its always the case, you know, with founders or neofounders like steve. I think steve, in fact, made even the decision to step aside from the board. Actually wanted bill bad because as a founder, theres pretty unique capabilities they have treally get people to do their best work, but i think the thing that both of them did was to give me space. They were very, very clear in their mind, because ving been ceos, they alized how hard the job is. In fact, i remember steve telling me, look, no one, neither your board nor the people who work for you, will be able to see the leftright picture in real time like you as ceo will. And your job is to listen and, you know, take criticism and ideas from everywhere but realize that no one else can see the complete picture. Your job, as long as you have it, be doing it with your own instinct. David so, onee things you try to do in change the culture was to change what was known as ul a very proprietaryre at microsoft. Microsoft said, this is the way we do things. We dont want to cooperate with other firms necessarily, how did you change that culture . If anything, let me approach, even who are our traditional competitors, nd say, customers are heterogeneous. They use some of what we do, and some of what you do. Lets figure out a way to combine forces where its market expaesive and it satisustomers. At least thats how ive approached it. And its a lesson i learned in my early days in microsoft. David hantorically, windowoffice were your two cash cows. They are still the b satya absolutely. David so, after those two, and you suspect theyll be a major source of profit for a long time. Satya absolutely. David but after that, you have other things. You spent 26 billion, e biggest acquisitn ever for microsoft, to buy linkedin. What does linkedin have to do with microsoft . Satya if you look at itus we have a billios of windows and office, or microsoft 365, and what ie . The Common Thread th theyre all professionals. They are ayi people who are to get things done. So, we have the professional cloud and the professional devices in the world. And the vision was to combine that with the professional network of linkedin. In fact, if you look at some of the integratncns that we have launched, you can be in outlook, you can get an email i can get an email from david rubenstein. I can go look up your linkedin profile, which i hope you have. David i will get one today. But yes. [laughter] satya and trt of look up all the mutual connections we may have. So, the idea that the professional network and the profal content can be brought together, i think ultimatelyert can be a big drf productivity. So, that is one. Pit onof the other es which has been a real game changer for us is linkedin is the way people do business to business sales. Ou want to be able to reach customers and sell, this integration is going toe a game changer same with talent management. So, i think we have lots of synergies between the products that are now coming true. David apple has a lot of stores around, retail stores. You have them. Are yours doing well also . Are you go keep that business . Satya yeah. Again, its all part of one ecosystem for us. We dont think of our stores separate from our devices separate from what we do in office and windows and security. David most everything youve done, since youve been ceo, last 3 1 2 years, has worked perfectly. The stock is up, the market values up, everybody likes you. The hing that i could find that anybody criticized you for was you gave a statement out womens pay at one point and you correctly, i think, changed your position the next day, d . Satya absolutely. Ition i was asked about, you know, pay equity. Fact, i just gave such an absolute nonsensical answer, which maria klawe, whoas interviewing me, was kind enough to correct me while i was onstage itself. Because i was answering a question literally using some past my own personal experience without understanding the broader ntext, the depth of the question, which is what does a person like me, who is the ceo of a company, doing make sure that,ne, women can fully participe in our companies and in our economies, there is equal pay for equal work, and more importantly, there is equal opportunity for equal work . That was the real question. It was not about, like, ok, what worked for you and what careece do you have for me . It was a great learning moment for me. Its something that i obviously have taken back. In fact, when vetalk to women who ar close to me, and heard even their own personal experiences, thats when struck me how, you know, the job of a ceo in particular is to make sure that everyone, whether its r gender diversity ethnic diversity, can first come into the company, do their best work, so that we can then serve our customers. So, thats azation which i thought i had, quite frankly, but i wasim glad i messed up so publicly because i think i internalized the lessons from it. David did you hear from your wife about that . Satya absolutely, from hat time, my mom was alive. From my mom and my wife. My wife had to give up her career because of our son. But even in my moms case, she struggled. She in fact, now i realize it a lot more than i even did obviously growing up, was the tradeoff she had to make, where the system that she was working in did not support her reentry into the wororce after, you know, she had both myself and my sister. Something liso that. What percentage are male, what percentage are female, and how many senior won do you have . Technology is not a place where a lot of women have risen to the top yet. Relavely speaking. Satya in fact, one of the things that we have made some Good Progress on is on the womens representation, which we have a long way to go. An, you have got to remember that in tech, we have a particularly tougher issue because of technology disparity in terms of gender diversity, but lets start with the progress, which is in the last year, we made we have gone from around we improved to 27. 7 of women coming into the organization, which is around two points more than historical. And in the tecology side, where p have improved bynts. So, thats, i wod say, movement in the right direction, but not enough, obviously. Onof the other things r board also did was to change the compensation system for me as well as my direct reports, to say, look, numeric progress, besides all the work that we may do, programs we may have, and the talk, lets even tie compensation of the seniormost people, including the ceo, to real numerical progress. And so, were doing everything, but quite frankly, its going to take continuous vigilance, continuous push, and its a top of mind issue for all of us. David youve only been dog this 3 1 2 years, which is a relatively short tenure for microsoft ceos. How many more years would you like to do this . [satya laughs] you know, i have been at microsoft now for 25 years. And i think the thing that i feel that gives me that source of energy is really that sense of purpose of the company, because honestly, its not i dont know how our market, its probably not even up to me how many years i will be there. But more importantly, i think what we have is that unique sense of purpose ths not about our technology but its the ability to see the impact this technology has, d i think its a real privilege to do it each day. David thank you very much for a great job. Satya thank you so much, dad. Such a pleasure. [applause] david thank you. Satya thank you. Thank you, sir. Announcer support for the pbs presentation of this program was provided by general motors. Man i see a future. Woman i see a good future. Woman i see a future filled with roads and no rage. Both we see a future. Man with zero crashes. Woman i see a futur. Where fossil fue man are a thing of the past. All we see a future with zero emissions. Man i see a future where traffic. Second man keeps perfect time. El third man where igence is always by design. Fourth man we see a future with zero congestion. Woero congestion. Man we are. Second man we are. Both we are. All al motors. Youre watching pbs. Many people think s she could be the first female president , this week ring line. I wear heels. Its not for a fashion statement. Its because if i see something wrong, wre gonna kick them every single time. Her resume is a string of firsts and some delicate diplomacy. Nikki haley was the first person of color and the first woman to bece a governor of south carolina, a republican who took down the confederate flag. Its time to move the flag from the capitol grounds. [ cheers a applause ] she tn became the first indianamerican to serve in a president s cabinet. The ambassador to the United Nations who pushed her version of Donald Trumps America First policy. You are gonna see a change in the way we do business. For those that dont have our back, were taking names. Haley says she voiced her disagreements with President Trump directly and i private. I told him the truth. If i saw something wrong, i saii thhoht it was wrong. With the nation facing president ial elen,divisive
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