Transcripts for BBC Radio Devon BBC Radio Devon 20190809 000000

Time and instill a deadline days always are only a Cauchy's left you know I said savagely ways assault tells it also on his return home Sunday Carroll is listen to the show by downloading the need B.B.C. Sound out the music radio and podcast make sure you subscribe to the show so you don't miss the next step is by this is B.B.C. 5 with B.B.C. News a 5 Live his a 56 year old man is gin courts lays her charged with the attempted murder of a police officer in East London in the early hours all Thursday the P.C. Was stopped with a machete in the head and pulled a after trying to stop a van in Layton Scotland Yard says he will recover Jamey Corbin's calling on the U.K.'s top civil servant to real that Boris Johnson can't force 3 new deal breaks that in the middle of a general election campaign the Labor leader has written to the cabinet secretary So Mark Sedwill saying it would be on priests dented unconstitutional and an anti democratic abuse of power our political correspondence is Peter's sole But now you believe all rules that exist during an election campaign prohibit what is a fact to be a cat's take a government from making decisions that the next governments might disagree with Downing Street would probably say that those rules do not apply to brag say because the U.K. Coming out of the European Union has been the legal default since parliament voted to trigger Article 50. The prime minister has instructed government departments to devise a new fast track visa system to track leading scientists to the U.K. After breaks it Boss Johnson says he wants to attract talent like a super charged Mike Mitt surveying Ramakrishnan The president of the Royal Society backs the idea but it wouldn't make up for leaving without a deal if we crash out without a deal we will be disrupting our closest collaborators and no deal Breck's it is going to make it really bad for the farms and they need to keep that in mind a man's been shot dead in Birmingham Police say the 20 year old man died in Arlington just before 7 sorry say no one has been arrested a 14 year old girl has died after getting into difficulties in the sea near Clacton pier in Essex to a teenage members of her family were also pulled from the water an 18 year old man is critically ill a 15 year old girl is expected to recover. Figures from N.H.S. England show that more people than ever are waiting for routine operations like hip and knee replacements in June more than 4000000 people were on waiting lists figures also show that accidents on emergency attendances last month where the highest they've been since records began Dr Tasha works in a in a paper here wave has had some small impact there is no doubt but our tree overall if you look at the trends the trends clearly show but unfortunately we seem to be going backwards in terms of being able to maintain decent levels of system performance and not so real cause of concern climate experts at the U.N. Say big changes must be made to food production farming and easing habits to limits global warming a report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change says I could culture for stray and other land use a kind for more sorry account for almost a quarter of greenhouse gas emissions Here's the activist grazer tune Barack I hope that this report will gain even more media attention than the last one that gained some media attention but it's obviously not nearly enough so I just hope that the conclusion of this report becomes in a way common knowledge that was the news that he cover has the support the transfer window has closed for Premier League and championship teams the big deal of the day being Romelu Lukaku swap the Manchester United fit into Milan That's a 74000000 pounds also completed the signing of defended David Luis from Chelsea in an 8000000 pound Dale they also got Kieren Teenie over the line for $25000000.00 pounds and sold Alex Y.B. To Everton full hours after the window shop for a fee that could rise to $34000000.00 Tottenham a sign Giovanni online and Ron said it's the $25000000.00 they didn't secure that big power. From the event to me while Andy Carroll has described his return to Newcastle after 8 years away as a dream all the other deals can be found on the B.B.C. Sport website and the daily transfer window special podcast is available to download on B.B.C. Sounds roll him in a school twice as many inside Punic phone in the 1st leg as there you are openly 3rd round qualifier Meanwhile ranges full to. React to nail rugby league Super League St Helens beat 3012. By 64 runs in the T 20 this space B.B.C. Radio 5 Live on digital B.B.C. Sounds. A lot of forecast and rains expected to be very heavy in the early hours with the risk of thunderstorms the day had will be a most of us should feel some of that went. Fine if you. Come much to run the world must maturity also turn 1000000000 pounds to be a 1000000000 pounds. If I could give a child to. The hospital. After 2 weeks probably. On the 5th of September and general Friday this week to be in. The show we will be live from the largest festival in the world . Good morning here in the U.K. In Salford and Manchester You're listening to up all night on B.B.C. 5 Live with me. On the way once upon a time in Hollywood. Station here in the U.K. It's not historically accurate to pick. No of the Manson murders but it certainly touches on it and it's brought back into people's minds Charles Manson the cult around him and they've been so many takes on him scale to being one of the definitive books but I'll be talking to the author of a new book that looks at some theories about Charles Manson for example was he a CIA sponsored L.S.D. Mind control experiment a pretty wacky theories will be discussing them shortly also a really remarkable story of the fake doctor he was jailed and then went on to become an actual doctor we got details a breaking story for me deputy F.B.I. Director Andrew McCabe has filed a civil lawsuit. But before all that let's bring you up to date with a story that we've been covering here on up all night last few days it's the ongoing events in Kashmir the Indian prime minister Narendra Modi has defended his government's decision to remove that special status that the Indian administered Kashmir has got he said it was done in the interests of Kashmiris and went on to say that a new era had begun and the move would help and decades of terrorism and separatism that has cost thousands of lives she Rashid is a politician with the Jammu and Kashmir people's movement political party and she said the government's decision to revoke the special status which is called Article $370.00 said that claim by Mr Modi isn't true that has nothing to do with $370.00 that has everything to do with the political history of Kashmir it is going to meet those problems even. Everything in history your logic tells us that it is going to fuel the insurgency even more than I'm president now in terms of what's happening in Kashmir mobile landline and internet connections have been cut off since Sunday there is a curfew in place Pakistan's reacted by saying India's decision breaches international law and both the United Nations and the us a call for restraint from all sides that speak to Michael cumin deputy director of the Asia prime. Graham at the Woodrow Wilson Center at the school is good to have you with us Michael. What do you make of the speech. Well I mean he was essentially trying to justify this very dramatic and unprecedented move as a sales pitch to essentially say that this is going to make it easier to invest in Kashmir and make it easier to develop the region and there certainly is something to be said for that and you know this summit is certainly something to be said of people have more access to services there are to access before cashmere or. Change of status but I think the big issue the big concern is that for so many Kashmiris and particularly those in the Kashmir valley what degrees and the most is not a lack of development or poverty it's more a true to the state rooted in a very longstanding presence of Indian security forces and their heavy handed tactics so you know a lot of these Kashmiris will not be appeased by these promises of development that neurons are Modi as as an aid and that's why I think that you know when this clamp down on Kashmir is finally as new I think we really do have to worry about the strong prospect of a man rests I mean he's been using quite remand to language has need to look about saying you know we're getting to have Besa rail and road links and that they could be a cinema industry there and people can come and shoot the film and he talks about about coffee and exports in the area taking off I mean is this all pine the sky is this is this something you think that is feasible he's saying because he needs to get people on side. Well I mean quite frankly unless India manages to get the security situation under control unless it's able to ensure that there's not large levels of violence and unrest I don't see how you can have the right climate and in the. Vironment to allow for the type of investment and development that Modi has been calling for I mean for me that's that's the big question because as I said before you know you have many many Kashmiris that are incensed about this decision to change the status of Kashmiris and essentially making them a formal part of a state that they so despised they're going to react they're going to revolt So the idea of you know India bringing in major companies and having people come around from from around the country to to acquire land that would be very hard to do if you're going to have this worsening security situation so it's going to be very difficult for for the Indian government to pull off this plan but you know it certainly sounds fanciful to me but certainly I should say some parts of Kashmir are more stable than others I mean for instance the general area if you don't have the strong degree of anti-state sentiment that you have in the Kashmir Valley it will be easier to develop and invest in those areas but you know other parts could be it could be very difficult to invest in and do the types of things that the prime minister has said India is going to do now both sides to speak as we now claim classmates of their own do you think a negotiated settlement in which the area governs itself is at a possible. Well I mean we could only hope for that but I think that this this move that India made the other day makes it very difficult to think that those scenarios could could come to pass the main you know in the end done something that's never been done before and changes unilaterally change the status of a disputed region and so by incorporating cashmere into what's what is known as a Union Territory and it's going to be very difficult to think about some type of negotiated settlement and I think that even the more moderate politicians and leaders in Kashmir are so unhappy about this move that they could themselves become much more hostile to the state thereby making it even more difficult to think that you could find common ground for some kind of negotiated outcome. Intends of the UN as an epic astonishes called on the U.N. . To intervene you've got the U.S. Calling for restraint really to stick what can they today what can the U.N. Or indeed the U.S. . Well we should certainly should not over is overstate the ability of the U.N. To do much good now when it comes to the Kashmir dispute I think the main reason why so many Kashmiris antichrist any is look to the U.N. As a helpful entity is that there is a historical precedent many years ago decades ago the U.N. Passed a series of resolutions calling for a plebiscite in Kashmir to take place so that people could could decide on the future the status of their of their region of the UN said that plebiscite could happen after the areas demilitarize that the militarization has not happened but still to this day you know you have many Kashmiris in Pakistan is that think that since the UN had offered those suggestions and pass resolutions that it could still be a useful player particularly because there are very few other actors whether countries or global and cities around the world that have really taken much of an interest in engaging on the Kashmir issue but the UN has no in force and power all it can do is make statements issue resolutions call attention to the human rights violations in Kashmir but they really cannot do any more than that as for the United States well yes you know as you know Donald Trump a some time ago very suddenly offered to mediate the Kashmir dispute but just quickly everybody said well yeah just amazing Exactly and I think it's very telling that the U.S. Reaction to India's move was utter silence and I think that indicates that the United States is simply not interested in getting involved and in some ways that's different to India India does not want any external involvement in this issue and I think that we're not really going to see the United States do much except perhaps for privately call on each side to to exercise restraint but it's not going to want to wade into these very turbulent waters that represent a Kashmir dispute. Is this all about Mr Modi becoming more hardline and appealing to the those people that voted him in on his in his reelection you know what is this about for him do you think well I mean it's important to remember that his Party B J P has for several years that out to strip Kashmir of its of its statehood So in some ways this is not a surprise but I do think there is a political message political element to this I do think one reason why we may have seen Modi make this dramatic move so early in his 2nd term is that he wanted to do something he wanted to make a big bang move that would be sure to resonate and be popular with his rank and file and supporter base because he knows that eventually this government is going to have to try to tackle a very serious jobs crisis and try to pass through difficult economic reforms that may not play well with with the B J P supporters on a sense you could argue that the B.G.P. Wanted to do this thing that would be very popular right now to try to blunt some of that political donor ability to conceive and neck and seek and later but certainly we should see this in the context of Modi's desire to pursue this this international is the gender because one could argue that you know by changing cashmere status it'll make it easier for for Indians and particularly in the majority Hindu Indians to come into Kashmir which is the only Muslim majority region in India and acquire land there and do things like that and there is a fear that you know you're going to have efforts to really raise the profile and enhance the status of Hindus in this traditionally Muslim majority area and that's that's right in the wheel house so to speak of the internationals the gender and of course we know that Pakistan will do whatever it takes to to hold on to Kashmir the people that are following this story and don't know it as as much as in-depth as as others do it can you can you try and explain why why just on India fight the calf's May Well you know this is been going on for the so so long what is it about Kashmir. Well it's just the fact that it harkens back to the very earliest days of independence and go back to the period of partition in 1947 when the their region became disputed right in the very moment when you had other states joining the new India or the new Pakistan and you know the leadership in what was then the princely state of Kashmir wasn't sure which side to go to just because he was sensually had states that were Hindu majority going to India and other areas that were Muslim majority going to Pakistan and in the Maharajah and in Kashmir did not know he couldn't make a decision and then you had a series of things happen you had Pakistani fighters actually March into Kashmir trying to seize it and then the Maharajah asked for India's help they came in but then things got complicated and the UN trying to get involved by offering this author of the plebiscite that they know it was able to demilitarize and the war started and that's when you know really made things difficult when you have 2 countries fighting over territory multiple times that clearly is going to harden the end that he is on on both sides and no other issues and neither side in order to compromise and obviously you need to have compromise to work through something as complex as this there was a time about 10 years ago when you had leaders in Pakistan and India that were willing to discuss some type of around the arrangement is and Pervez Musharraf was in power in Pakistan on Lansing and India you had there were actually recently some back door negotiations to get to some type of resolution but then what happened in the Mumbai terrorist attack of 2000 a tear it out by Pakistan aligned terrorists then that did it for that process and ever since then there have not really been any other efforts to get to the point where we were 10 years ago and I think that in this point I've never been more skeptical that there could be any type of resolution particularly given what India the move that it just made I mean I wouldn't want to have any down on us. The answer to this question but do you fear that they could be a war in a very mind obviously both nuclear powered countries it would be the worst case scenario but do you feel that the tensions that have been that the the so long could be could be such a point. That may be a possibility. I mean I don't want to sound like an alarmist I don't I don't think we're on the cusp of a nuclear war or anything about like that but I do think that some type of conflict is quite likely and particularly since India is India's move to strip Kashmir of its state has been seen as at the very least a provocative act by Pakistan and at worst as a hostile act and so you know if you look at the patterns here what's happened that the NIE in Pakistan in the past frequently you have Pakistan that nurtures ties to India focused terrorists it is encourage them to go into Kashmir and to try to push back against India by blowing some things up and I do think unfortunately we actually are that possibility of some kind of major attack in Kashmir that would be traced back to Pakistan if that happens and I think it's a matter I should I actually should say as a matter of when not if India would respond militarily and what they are strikes something like that and then you have to worry about escalation possibilities and we saw earlier this year as you'll recall in the 2 countries nearly went to war they exchanged air strikes on each other's soil before things were quiet down but now that India has made this incredibly unprecedented dramatic move with Kashmir that's going to raise the stakes and I think it may make Pakistan be in a warrant to push back more in terms of using source all under the nuclear umbrella to be sure. But I do think unfortunately we cannot rule out the possibility of conflict in the near future it's a case that's Michael thank you so much Michael Kay gloom in the deputy director of the Asia Program at the Woodrow Wilson Center for Scholars just to recap Indian India's prime minister and engine Modi has appeared on states. Media to defend this very controversial decision to remove the special status that has been a coup to soko man. Now let's talk about Charles Manson it was one of those U.S. Crimes that seem to bring the sixty's crashing to a close the measure of the pregnant to Sharon Tate she was just 26 when 4 people broke into a home in 1969 in Beverly Hills killing her and everyone else in Saeed and the medicine carried out by members of the Manson family a cult that had sprung up around the charismatic career criminal Charles Manson and existed on the fringes of a Hollywood film and music scene that was at the time turning on cheating in and dropping out how much do we know about Charles Manson well go with me now Tom O'Neil his new book chaos Charles Manson the CIA The Secret History of the sixty's has just been published good to have you with us Tom thank you and this is you have it now tell me Charles Manson the Manson murders is this is he and the story of the murders something that has gripped you for a long long time and if so why. Well it's kind of a mystery of how he got his followers to go out and commit killings complete strangers just on his command without knowing why or who they were and not having any remorse after the fact that kind of work I mean interested in the case after it was assigned by a magazine that I've never been interested in it before and then that interest kind of spiraled and go like a different direction when I was investigating what actually happened. Probably years out of prison actually required prior to the murders when you started investigating it will you what did you think did you think well I'm not sure if there's anything else to say about what we feelings. Yeah I actually didn't want to do the story because I thought everything had been said I was never interested in the case I'd never read the prosecutor's book Helter-Skelter But you know I needed the money and it was 1909 it was going to commemorate what was going to be the 30th anniversary and actually tonight we're 50th anniversary in a few hours and Los Angeles time so it kind of took 20 years to get here but once I started looking into the investigation by the police and the sheriffs of the prosecution by the D.A.'s office I saw a lot of holes and things that I eventually was able to prove has been covered up by the prosecutor and not you know there were a lot a lot of evidence that wasn't shared with the defense as required by what's called the Brady law here in the United States and a whole different picture emerged of how and why the murders happened that played with the narrative presented by the NZ believe just mentioning Vincent Bugliosi does say he was the that the rice has the people that may not know the health how to scalp which was presented as the definitive All right Charles Manson. And I'm not ready I think it's a fascinating book but what would do you think it was and why do you think it will knock you out what is it about that book that you had issues with. Why wasn't it I thought it was inaccurate or had issues with it what happened was I started interviewing principle witnesses for the prosecution 30 years after the fact and they were telling me that they were co-heirs to testify that they hadn't told the truth on the stand others hadn't told the truth and the course of years later you know memories Ferrel people have agendas and I was pretty skeptical for them I tried getting documents and reports that had never been shared with journalists before from the sheriff and the L.A.P.D. In the D.A.'s files through a long hard effort I didn't get access over more than me it took about a year to break down the walls and I saw that what these people told me was true and damaging very reasonably when you said that they they felt that they hadn't told which can you give an example. Well I mean the most prominent example that I uncovered in my investigation was why the how. Sarah was renting with her husband Roman Polanski it was chosen for murder that night the official narrative has Manson sending his followers to that address not only who they've encountered there but to go in there with the order to kill whoever was in the house in the most horrific way possible and leave a sign that would implicate the Black Panthers in the murders and they did that and what I found out while the again the official story was that he was trying to instill terror and Terry Melcher who had previously on the house Ark says the rent of the house and I had rejected Manson for ordering contract what I found was that Melcher had lied about his relationship with maps and his history with the family and on the stand in several trials he testified that he had never seen Manson after May of $969.00 when in fact covered documents written in the prosecutor's own hand that showed that Baltar was meeting with the Manson family and very dramatic for Mario's for months after the murders and traveling all the way up to the valley where they were hiding out to have these intense these meetings with Manson and everything has drawn the entire narrative kind of falls apart when you find out the command prosecution witness lied about how that house was chosen and why it was chosen which raises questions about the motive and whether or not the victims were actually strangers to their killers and what about the the participant the politician in Tate what did you discover the killers. In the Tate murders that August 8th 1069 the 4 people that went to the house were Charles Tex Watson Linda Kasabian and Trisha Krenwinkel and Susan Atkins and they. Bully Elsie was asked in the early seventy's whether or not he believed that Manson believed in the race war scenario this helter skelter Armageddon that he had prophet prophesies and a bully O.C.S. Shockingly to make as I hadn't seen the interview until years and years later told the reporter that no he didn't believe Manson believed it but he truly believed that the followers believed that I believe the same thing I do think the women were killing because they thought it was going to start a race war but unfortunately what that reporter didn't do is ask the LEO see that natural follow up as well as Manson some those people to kill these strangers but not to ignite a race war if he didn't believe in it then what was the reason he sent them there unfortunately Billy O.C. Is when you read the book you'll see he's cut off all communications with me when I started presenting him with this information and I got a bunch of letters threatening lawsuits and I got a bunch of personal threats and I couldn't ask him that question when I discovered that interview and even one Fortunately he passed away a few years ago so he can answer it now so it's still a mystery and in your book. You say you know you look at Charles Manson himself and how how was it that he ended up at the center of this Madras college. It's kind of complicated but he was released from prison in 1967 in Los Angeles and he immediately violated his parole and went up to the Bay Area in San Francisco and reported to the pro office there announced that he had arrived in violation of his parole they should have immediately sent him right back to prison instead they assigned him to a research project that was being conducted by a bunch of professors and this was never come out before but his relationship with his parole officer who was in this research program was an academic one and and that during the year and a half that he supervised Manson's parole he basically gave him a get out of jail free card and let him commit crimes with immunity and make sure that he didn't go back to prison and also in fact several The women had been arrested he wrote letters to the judge saying that they shouldn't be sent to prison that they were good women and they weren't were not criminals he never identified himself as a parole officer for the leader of this organized crime ring but it had become by by 968 so it's a pretty convoluted story but you see that everything is documented and I got all these documents through Freedom of Information Act requests from my mentions probation and parole officer United States probation and parole office. You know as I still so Baskin you you know what is it. About about Charles Manson and you know the stories of in joules doesn't it because it's got this new film by Quentin Tarantino Once upon a time in Hollywood although it's not you know it's going to Audie about Charles Manson's that he touches on but what do you make of this discovery continues fascination that people have with him. Well it's interesting because parenting now is at the same question you asked me at the beginning which is why do you think people are interested in that still all these years later and this was after he premiere the film in France and May And his answer was the one I'd always been saying he said because it's unfathomable about how Manfred got these women to commit these murders and there's you know there's also revelations in my book that he was let's just say in the vicinity of a bunch of government touches workers as crazy as that sounds who are doing drug research and trying to create exactly what Manson. Develop the technology to do with their followers and I want to touch on that there is this process does this belief is that you have been used as a guinea pig somehow you know. The 7. As a whole couples. But still a thing we've learned at home throughout our marriage yeah we just we just like you lost you there on the line but good just to finish that thought I mean you did you do look into that to the conspiracy theory about him being used as a guinea pig by the arm and yeah yeah that becomes less of a conspiracy if your theory was a secret documents that covered the research. That were funded where the. Earth will have to let Tom go the line slightly cut off but really fascinating that this but that's coming out by Tom I think is already out the Tom O'Neil bag chaos Charles Manson the CIA and The Secret History of the sixty's it's just been published it's coming up soon 132 let's get the news now with trigram own digital B.B.C. Said last week this is B.B.C. Radio 5 Live a 56 year old man is facing 2 charges including attempted murder over the stabbing of a police officer in East London the P.C. Who's $28.00 was attacked with a machete and a stable and hospital Jeremy Corbin has spoken eye to get the possibility of a general election campaign beginning before the U.K.'s brags that deadline in order to prevent M.P.'s from blocking a no deal exit the Labor leader has risen to the cabinet secretary Sir Mark Sedwill to confirm whether or not the idea would breach election rules. A man's been murdered in Birmingham tonight police say the 20 year old man was shot in Arlington just before 730 and a teenage girl who was pulled from the water by Clacton pier in Essex earlier has died she got into difficulties along citee relatives an 18 year old man is in a critical condition Betty Glover has the spores the transfer window has slammed shut for Premier League and Championship clubs and here's a taste of some of the headline moves on deadline day he's got to reach out to those on the edge of the area the cultural tickle the school. 7 cheerleader was here and cheered to get the champions through eternity shakin. Was a success to a story and we've got some extraordinary stories for you Arthur 4 of water ropes case field can round it all up the big deal of the day undoubtedly Manchester United offloading striker Romelu Lukaku to into Milan they pocketed 74000000 pounds just 1000000 less than what they signed him for 2 years ago Arsenal have done some of the most impressive business left back here in T.N.A. From Celtic's center back to have a Luis from Chelsea costings of 33000000 combined they could get more than that in for when Alex won't be he became Everton 7th summer signing Tottenham may have missed out on events is Paolo de Bolla but have tied up 2 long term targets in Ryan Cessna on an Giovanni Lascelle so they'll have the option to make the Argentinian permanent this time next year and maybe the most sentimental signing of the day striker Andy cower returning to Newcastle on a free after 8 years away he described as what dreams are made of well former Aston Villa midfielder Andy Townsend says it could be a dream Eisa Carroll if he can accept he won't be 1st choice the can accept that he's not going to play every week and that in my only be able to affect games for 20 minutes from the bench start the odd one here. And there that could be a very useful piece of business for Newcastle and all the other deals can be found on the baby Sport website and saw as I said Bill Daley has a special transfer window podcast you can download that on B.B.C. Sounds now as he British sides have been in your I.P.L. a Good qualifying action will be on Main inside a C.P.U. Nick by full goals to nail him in as schooled either side of HOF time Meanwhile Rangers be full to an Aberdeen loss to react to nail in rugby league Super League St Helens beat working 2 miles 3012 our correspondent days Woods was watching this one St Helens eased to victory with 3 unanswered 2nd off tries after going into the bright with only a 12 turn lead Josie Powell afterward impressive call able break much of her stellar and Tony American city in spectacular style old school rose as more in terms of injury problems mounted saints already have a leadership on up 14 points clear at the top Hold on 2nd spot is looking a little project elsewhere to full of a 75 in the 1st of the P.G.A. Tools play also events in New Jersey he was playing his 1st round since missing the cut in IP last month one of the greats of South African cricket has retired from international game he held South Africa's highest test school and unbeaten 311 against England at The Oval in 2012 and I am all going start to Middlesex alongside Stevenson he finished with figures of fine the 16 as they thrashed sorry by 64 runs in the T 20 blast olds and that's the latest from the school the author. Sounds. Right now I don't know when how the white coat the stethoscope and didn't look how so place up all of his rounds on the cardinals of the U.C.L.A. Medical Center there was just one problem he wasn't a qualified doctor it's 20 years since he was jailed for impersonating one but now he is one they just met Lay It's pretty remarkable story and with me is Sammy a column he reports on health care in California for the Los Angeles Times has been looking into this very extraordinary and different career of Adam and when good to have you with this tell me when you 1st heard about him. Short so I didn't actually reached out to us it's kind of a strange story but he reached out to us asking us if we could take it on the story that we wrote in 2000 about his arrest and that's how I 1st made contact with him and he he did go to medical school didn't they when he was very young no he didn't have a date pretended to go he went to undergrad he didn't finish so he dropped out and then he started his charade that you see and there's no evidence is there that he ever treated a patient. But I interviewed the prosecutor who prosecuted the case back in 2000 and he said there isn't any and he sort of said that you know U.C.L.A. . In the investigation and it is an U.C.L.A. Best interest to say that there wasn't a fake doctor treating their patients but also it's a you know if U.C.L.A. Was trying to cover it up it's a big rest to take a patient if a patient where they come out and say this doctor treated me it would make them look really bad so it's far as we know there Adam never treated any patients that you see how on earth does he get away with that really good question. The security system who was probably not as good then as it is now I don't think you have to you know flash your badge to get it every single time you walked in and out of the door and I think that there was a lot of power in showing up somewhere in the right uniform and pretending like you're one of the know how many people go to the doctor and ask their doctor to see their medical license so it might be easier to pull off than you would think especially in a big crowded place where there's lots of students running around anyway you met him several times you a piece and I wonder if you got a sense of of him as a person and how he was able to pull this off and why he wanted to do this why he wanted to pretend to be doing. Yeah the way that Adam friends said is that he's never loved anything more than medicine he his grandfather was a podiatrist and he took him to see a surgery when when Adam was a young boy and he fell in love with surgery and he became obsessed with not just being a doctor about specifically a surgeon and so Adam sort of describes it as just a love of medicine I would describe it as an obsession he went to every length to become a doctor and when he was a young man and realized maybe he wouldn't be able to through a legitimate route his grades weren't good enough he didn't finish college he decided to do it through an illegitimate route and even as he got older he still never gave up on that deep deep obsession with becoming a doctor to the point where he actually after decades decided to legitimately become a doctor and so when you talk to him he like he doesn't care about anything other than medicine they talks about medicine and he sort of drops medical words into conversation and he often you know takes every opportunity to remind you that he is now a doctor it's just sort of the defining force in his life is it is it the old yes. Lovely it to me is so interesting the way say it's an obsession with medicine I. You know I have a few friends who studied medicine and I think they would describe it as a bit of a nightmare in terms of how hard you have to study for it and you know because they enjoy their careers but it's so interesting to. You saying that this was an obsession for him. Yeah it's defining that as friends who are doctors it's not it's a you know your friends are doctors maybe I'll ask them for medical advice maybe they'll tell you a story about something that happened in a clinic but this is really different that says he will take every opportunity to kind of gratuitous drop medical information or words or it's just I've never really talked to anyone who is a wanted something so badly and so it if you think about it in that way it kind of fits that he would also go to such extreme lengths to get it both the faking of it and also the pursuing it at sort of an older age which is you know medical school isn't easy it's not easy I'm sure it's not even harder when you're in your forty's it's cooling and he still has to do residency to finish his training which is even more including him you know he's the obsession is what fuels them and he's 47 years old now is in the. So if he gets interested in C. It's a minimum 3 year program if it's surgery it's 5 years so he'll be you know $52.00 by the time he can actually practice on his out at the earliest and how long was he in general. Not very long I think 2 months 2 months and so he's he's obviously studied now and he's got that medical degree recently trying to get it and it's interesting because you mentioned that he was unable to do that about them because he didn't have the the right grades for it was unable to do what's changed for him how how is he able to do it now I think he's actually put his those to the grindstone. Back then I think when he was younger he was more naive and he wanted it to come easier than it was going to like he told me that when he was doing his bachelor's degree he was in this program where he got to treat a patient that was like got to see patients there's a special program for kids who are interested in becoming doctors and that program ended and he became depressed so you can see that he wanted to be able to act like a doctor without putting in the work and I think to some degree he's grown up and he knows that this is always going to do it and he actually you know did graduate from a medical school in the Caribbean and now has that degree in your article I really like the quote from from one contributor he would sort of sums that up and says it's it's a strange crime. Yeah. That kind of brains I mean I was sort of wondering what an outsider would think about a case like this you know I didn't apply to residency I'm not a doctor I don't know what they're looking for and I was actually surprised to hear him say that because I think the remainder of the rest of the quote is something like It's not a violent crime not a strange crime I could admit I could have foreseen the programs giving him the chance and it is a really strange crime and because they never found any evidence that he treated patients it's a nonviolent crime and so it may be speaks to his character in terms of sort of his way of thinking whether he has some psychological issues but it doesn't necessarily show danger violence in the oil might be a definite red flag to someone who's hiring a physician I mean as you mentioned there wasn't any evidence that he diagnosed patients obviously if he had gone not follow it would have been a whole lot more serious. In terms of as you mentioning he's the he's the he's now you know undergoing residency but what is it ultimately he wants to do is it because so many different avenues you can you can you can explore when you get a medicine qualification is it that he just wants to see patients with what is it that he wants. Yeah so he any struggling to get into a program to finish is so he has his medical degree he has to do his sort of on the ground training any as in gotten into one of those programs and it's so frustrating for him and I spent several months working on this story I talked to him frequently and I can see how frustrating that is to make this turn around to get into medical school and not be able to do residency to practice on it and so I sort of asked so many times like what is your goal if you want to help keep and he says his goal is to help people so if your goal is to help people why don't you become a social worker or a therapist or any number of jobs that don't require this level of training and don't require you traveling through this field that you sort of made a mess and before and he just won't do it like he does so I call it like we have this one conversation where I keep saying but what if it doesn't you know what if you never get into residency and he kept saying like well the writing's on the wall and I will you know but he couldn't finish the sentence he couldn't even say out loud that he would give up he can't. He can't even acknowledge himself that one day he might have to give up so fascinating and I thank you so much for sharing your experience on the story with is. Course thank you you should really check out the. Column he reports on health care in California she was the last time really remarkable story of Adam Litwin who pretended to be a doctor 20 years ago he was jailed for pretending to be don't have but now he is one just that they are. Now Donald Trump has announced that the current director of the U.S. National Counterterrorism Center will become the acting director of National Intelligence Joseph McGuire will take over the agency that oversees civilian and military intelligence it follows down the resignation last month let's go to Peter Bowes our North American correspondent Peter the presidents often been at odds with his intelligence chief tells me what does this all mean. Well this seems to have been a difficult post a felony but remember this is just an acting appointment at the moment it still needs to be confirmed by the Senate and in fact a previous name was attached to this job and that lasted about 7 days 5 to 7 days John Rockliffe who is a member of Congress a Republican congressman he was Donald Trump's 1st choice to do this job and it seems in part that might have been because he has been a strong supporter of the president but there was quite a lukewarm reception in Senate when his name was thrown into the heart and actually some senators didn't really seem to know much about John Rockliffe at all and he has actually pulled out largely because of the speculation about the lack of intelligence experience that he had so we now hear that there is a new name in the frame and has actually definitely as you say been appointed to the job in an acting capacity Joseph McGuire He has a long career in the military he was in the U.S. Navy and is as you say currently in charge of the National Counterterrorism Center which is involved in government operational planning counter intelligence operations to combat terrorism terrorist threats in the States he has had a distinguished career but this is certainly a step up and some might argue a little bit more of a political job considering as you said the fact that the president is sometimes that odds with his intelligence advisor it's a significant moment because of the allegations that still don't go away day that a that Russia allegedly interfered in elections. Yes That's been one of the main reasons and bones of contention between the president and the intelligence community he was given very firm information advice from the intelligence operations center that Russia had interfered in the 2016 election Donald Trump chose to defy that not to believe it they've clashed also other over the aspects of foreign policy North Korea as well so it is a sensitive area and I think one of the problems one of the issues here is that this is a president like no other and that he will not think twice sometimes about defying those people you could say here on his side they are U.S. Intelligence advisors sometimes seemingly choosing to believe the opinions of those who you might think are as his adverse ways those who are perhaps from other countries rather than believing what people close to him whose job it is to gather intelligence telling him. Thank you Pisa that's the pizza is on North America correspondent just bringing us up to date on the the new acting director of National Intelligence Jason McGuire let's stick with the U.S. And find out what all the stories making the headlines Eva bad with Lynn Sweet from the Chicago Sun Times Hi Lynn Hello how are you I'm very good thing and one of the big stories that you're covering of course President Trump something else involving him and this involves the commuting the sentence of a former Illinois governor which has been pretty controversial tell us more about this well right so this is a great intersection of a national story that really is a story about Norma centrist because Trump just moments ago said he was going to tweet of course that he was going to delay the decision that he flirted with last night so this is a governor serving 14 years on a corruption charge and they did that twist here as to why you would think that the president wants to go out of his way to help him well once the governor his name is Rod big lawyer was he was impeached and removed from office Trump had him as a contestant and The Celebrity Apprentice show go figure right small world who knew connect the dots who knew that the garbage would end up in prison and Trump would end up the president so here I was kind of like him and the president thinks it's a real long sense for what he did that without going into the merits of it the president of the United States has absolute power to grant clemency to someone and a federal prison he all that said he was going to do it last night talking to reporters on Air Force One But then today he just said Well the White House staff has to keep studying. Matter so I don't really think he's there's a glitch I just think he wanted to delay it this will be a very controversial clemency act because this was a major figure in United States politics a governor of a state who you know who was who this used his office but it does have a very meaty issue of whether or not the sentencing judge gave this man too much time and just in terms of that would commute that he's not Paulding him he's potentially looking at basically changing his sentence to a less of a Will Yes and that's important because sometimes people use these words interchangeably commuting just means a get out of prison you get to go home and you still have the conviction on your record of pardon will get you out of prison but also it will wipe the record clean as if you never committed the crime you know more common C. Is the overview word that takes into account all the different permutations that could happen but in this case all the governor asked for is commutation which after 7 years would be pretty good for him you know another story that you all looking at is a well known celebrity priest from Chicago never his high profile and good what but now accused of sexual abuse that happened in the seventy's Yes And this is another sad story of this whole pedophile a priest saga that has unfolded in the past few decades bringing up that the past abuses and the United States and in other countries you know I covered this priest George Clements for years nearest and knew him and he had a spectacular way wonderful record he's retired now and for this to come up for things that happened to us 50 years ago puts everyone in a tough situation you want to respect the accuser and to take light of the charges so this is a tough tough one for this priest the arch bishop and our diocese of Chicago here has put it bluntly from history slee duties. But he has told you all paper that the accusation is totally unfounded Yeah yes and I guess we'll have to hear more about how this unfolds whether And. There is ever and. I don't see where this is going to legally Desa Sarah late but it's certainly for a man who's had his loved being in the press was with us accessible priests you know you needed someone for a coder to be a guest on your show you know he would he would be able to comment on all kinds of things he had a national reputation. For awhile and Washington D.C. Because he had such a national network where it where his priestly duties took him so this is a shocker for the city of Chicago and it's going to play now in the Sun Times website and of course it he was known for being active in the civil rights movement . SCENE IN Absolutely and you know he's he's well known I just want to add if we didn't have tad one little postscript to the Trump and Rod big lawyer which plays do that and it's in a sense our 3rd story of the day one of the things you have to do if you want to get the attention of trump you because he's so on Earth the doc said because he doesn't go by the book and he doesn't use the usual procedure says commutation Well what this rod because I have bitch a disgraced in prison governor he has a wife who figured out what to do to get in front of the president and she has made countless appearances and Fox News to plead her case for her husband and she's gotten a very sympathetic reception there and Trump even said in his remarks to 2 reporters on Air Force One that he saw her on T.V. And he really felt bad for her so that's a stunning example what he had but this strategy is that everybody could use it. Some people may say it's not fair but she had the celebrity status to be able to get on T.V. To plead the case she wanted to get the president's attention and our story is well she sure did it's a bit of a question or as we talk right now because we don't know for sure what the president's going to do though he gave every signal that he's going to commute the sentence and this is a big story not only locally but the whole country well it seems the flattery does get you quite fall with the president yes it does lesson learned but as you say we still don't I was going to happen in terms of committing that sentence the mean it's you know what So you'll sentence of so I think I like. I said says it's likely to happen I don't know what what the I actually would have been surprised if it came out tonight or tomorrow that's what I was kind of bracing for on it so usually the president does want to care about whether it at staff reviewed the paperwork so I don't know why he's being a stickler right now that I don't think there is so much already known about this this governor and his background I don't know what there is left to review or if Trump will change his mind and that would be a stunning reversal of every signal he has sent about how he wanted to treat this you know treat crowd who are of age so he's going to be nice and to do this before as well as name all he has he's done it for but sometimes there's other celebrities involved an actress named Kemp car dash it got a woman Johnson out of prison who was a 1st offender in a drug offense and it served years and years and that was celebrated but that child boss was given see to people who didn't ask for it was or symbolic they were. You know one was a it was a settle some kind of perceived grievance the very 1st part of the trial was to a sheriff very controversial who is space in charge. And because he was a big supporter of Trump Trump got him off the hook and how does this sort of action go down with you will read it is. You know it is less intensive all of this involving this woman governor of Illinois How do people lawyers and all that we have next we talk to the top elected officials and. A lot of the top elected officials want him to serve his SAT star some Democrats who do have dragged him either in the house or in state government who say that this is an illegal and said he served enough time. So. The bearer of the governor critics will say To be continued they say thank you. Thank you thank you that's Lynn Sweet from the Chicago Sun Times just giving us a flavor of the some of the stories that are making the headlines full. Of life. With the B.B.C. .