Transcripts for BBC Tees BBC Tees 20191004 000000

With the b.b.c. News on 5 Live Here's Emily Katrina to Johnson Thompson's one heptathlon gold at the World Athletics Championships and the former athlete Allyson Cerberus Li was watching for 5 Live water away to run Catarina Johnson Thompson finally 7 finally you are the World Champion and my you have delivered for Great Britain 2 in 2 days we have 2 world champions pronominal is the 26 year old 1st global outdoor title and she did it by breaking the British record set by dangerous the king and his hill at the London 2012 Olympics we'll have more on this in the sport the president of the European Council says the e.u. Is open but not convinced by the Prime Minister's new proposals for brakes it deal Boris Johnson says the plan which would keep Northern Ireland in the e.u. Single market for goods see it leave the Customs Union is a compromise but on autistics among several leading voices in Brussels to question it our Europe editor is Kathy Adler you could say that the prime minister is stuck between a rock and a hard place he seems cautiously optimistic that the majority of M.P.'s would support his new Breck's at proposals but the e.u. Doesn't and if he moves closer to the E.U.'s position say of a customs then he risks losing support from the hard line breaks it is at home the home secretary sent an open letter to Facebook calling on the company to rethink its plans to encrypt all messages on its platforms pretty tell says the policy threatens lives and the safety of our children the social media firm insists people have the right to have a private conversation online French police union officials say an employee who killed 4 colleagues in Paris may have been involved in a workplace dispute he was shot dead during a stabbings at the force's headquarters yesterday afternoon. President Trump says China should start an investigation into one of his political rivals Democrats have already begun an inquiry into his call for Ukraine to look into the presidential candidate Joe Biden who is Barack Obama's vice president here's his successor Mike Pence I think the American people have a right to know if the vice president of the United States or his family profited from his position as vice president that's about looking back and understanding what really happened I think is worth looking into and the president made it very clear that he he believes other nations around the world should look into this world the Bidens to NY all allegations Glastonbury says it's taken just 27 minutes for the 1st spots of tickets for next year's festival to sell out they went on sale last night that more be made available on Sunday Shojo Sarka has the sport Britain's Catarina Johnson times and not stop for personal bests on her way to becoming the happed Athlone world champion for the 1st time has 6981 points was not only good enough to beat Jessica Ennis Hill's British record but also to make over 6 the best heptathlete of all time also at the World Athletics Championships jeebies Laura Meo is through to the final of the women's 1500 meters in the Europa League Arsenal thrashed standardly age 4 nail with a teenage striker Gabrielle Martinelli scoring twice like Arsenal Celtic are also top of their group after a 2 no win over kluge Manchester United Meanwhile failed to register any shots on target as they were held to a goal is draw away of the dark side Alkmaar Willie Bawly scored in the 93rd minute to give wolves a one will win away at by shipped earth while Rangers conceded in out of time to lose 21 against young boys and Neil Harris has stepped down as the manager of the Championship club Millwall after more than 4 years in charge there failed to win any of their last 7 league games this is b.b.c. Radio 5 Live on digital b.b.c. Sound smart speaker come. On the weather. I notice right in northeast across most of the u.k. On in quite heavy in places southern areas will become joy if a night has rained taste north and some spells developing during the ne hours as Yellow Wind warnings in the southwest of England and Wales letters of 10 degrees in Belfast and 13 degrees in true or. As I mean but still Welcome to up all night during the course of the programme we'll try and continue with a bit of Rod's poetic theme from yesterday watch out for James Wickham and his North American sport he'll be bringing you some of his poetry a lot else that will be coming up in the program we'll get the latest on bricks it from Westminster will also be getting in Tallinn view on it all and why some that are calling Boris Johnson the enemy of the percent cocoa industry and what we're finding out more about the us is opioid crisis which kills $130.00 people every day and looking at politicians like Priti Patel and finding out why they're not happy with Facebook's decision to encrypt all its messages it's a bit more music. But let's start in France because 3 police officers in Paris have been killed by a known. Of the force the man behind the stabbings also murdered an office worker at their Paris headquarters the attacker who has not been named was shot dead by police it follows a day of strikes by French officers over what they believe is increased public health still ety towards them and more difficult working conditions and Elizabeth new tete is a journalist with The Telegraph and she's been following the story well we know that it's really somebody sort of basically cracking you know he's not like the policeman who all demonstrated in the streets of Paris and other such as yesterday he worked for i.t. Is i.t. Support within the Pacific She also addressed drug and people described him as. The local you describe the man there but we're also hearing some reports that maybe as behavior has changed in recent times yes the 1st reports were extremely sort of reassuring but now you have reports coming out saying he had changed in the last 2 years the last he started not speaking. Greeting women in the office any longer and he was much more observant So there is a possibility to undertake to be radicalization and that it might lead. From what you're saying this is obviously not to do with the pressure on French police but this comes at a time when we have the French police striking over the pressure what sort of reaction has there been to manned it's cute any of the cops have spoken to they say no it's not related but they also say look you didn't find many happy people tomorrow things because there has been this incredible there's been pressure for several years you know more and more work more and more over time that doesn't get paid you have people whose overtime numbers in the hundreds of hours for over a year that hasn't been paid you've got people who have in times. Things like the yellow vests demonstrations have 18 hour days when you take the policemen in the street they have a system whereby they work they have 2 days' rest but that means that they only have a weekend a real weekend with their families on Saturdays and Sundays every 6 weeks so all these things add up and then you add up the lack of means you add up the. Very often pretty station you add up. The pay as you add up the. Contempt in many ways the fact that he also goes to stay and not you know not react to people insulting them pelting them with things that set with those and then they snap in you know in the ways that there's violence or demonstrations there was a very moving interview with a woman policeman in the morning yesterday and she said you know I was in demonstrations and I had to sort of numbered and I had to use rubber bullets and rubber bullets and I used my rubber bullets and the the gun for those in a perfectly you know regulation manner for 6 times the man I was the 7th incidence and was so stretched by so when I took I could see myself take the gun and fire at the head of the person and I was lucky in that it missed him you know he was just grazed nothing happened and he went away nobody filmed it and so I'm safe but I'm now sort of looking at myself and seeing what he did up and what to me what happened to me what did I do why did I do it and that is something that many policemen can relate to you have heard since January 52 suicides of peace men sometimes with all the police women with a regulation weapons because they can't take the stress and if this were the corporation people with sort of you know they would be a class action for her and I thought this is a pretty use of their supposed to. The fact that we've had these 3 police officers killed will add to that sense of doom and gloom along with the story that you said there from the man one of. France's most popular newspapers is not affecting the number of people who want to join the police force are they struggling to get recruits now. To some extent. They are not struggling to find recruits because it is it too much for many for many young people it's a step up it's a bit like joining the army and normally until recently that it was supposed to take care of their or IT's also a problem but because they're not they haven't got enough credit to hire many more it's not so much recruitment it's the fact that they have people who are on the payroll but they are ill or depressed or they take on 2 things anymore the organization is such that support personnel is ranked as pretty as but support person was not in the streets so you got here and here people to actually do the job in the streets and because the job in the streets has become difficult people used to like it better than being bureaucrats but that's changing Do they have the support of the French people are people saying you know they're on strike it's right that they're on strike or are people saying they should be back at work you have both things at the same time you've got very strong reactions about the violence the sort of degenerated during the demonstrations and this idea that the police allowed themselves. To think that they could they shouldn't have and the fact that you know everybody has got a camera on the phone now it is very easy to see it so on the one hand you have that on the other hand you have people who are perfectly aware. That the pretties have a more and more difficult time of it and also they're pretty sick complaining the police feel that their current home secretary is not the right person Christopher Guest on air He's a former socialist m.p. You is one of the people from the left who are harvested suit to speak by a magazine back or to create his own movement and he also Harvester compatible people on the right and he's not really somebody whose experience is influencing Now the previous home secretary under fossil. A lot is the man who ultimately became prime minister for a few months down the nerve a socialist who also did not have background in pretty sing but he was very hardworking and he was he was a good home secretary bit more in the past before he became president Nicolas Sarkozy was acknowledged even on the left for the our super home secretary with a master at what was going on there is a feeling right now they don't really know what they do so that the demonstration yesterday was saying no we're not demanding anything from Mr Quest on air we're demanding directly from the prime minister the president because they are the ones who are going to take decisions and the last thing that the pretty saw not happy about is they go increase difficult areas in in a blighted neighborhoods and they arrest people for all sorts of crimes and misdemeanors and half the time they get released because the jails are full of the justice system is also very loaded and they say what's the point why it why can't we do that they're all things where we know what we should be doing but what's the use what is the government said about the incident today and about the bigger problems that you've been describing to us the government has said all the right things about the incident back or came to the. Headquarters of the produce in Paris there was a minute of silence for the victims I mean you know it was all compassionate to the families it mattered in terms of policy has the government reacted very strongly and with. More than a bit of sort of well intentioned wattle after the demonstration of yesterday it's all under study there are no firm promises at the end of the day even though. You know 25000 pretty smelt of a total of 180000 in the entire country is actually a high number is still is only 25000 people in the street and Elizabeth new tent there from the Telegraph bringing us up to date on the situation in Paris the European Union is open but not convinced by. Boris Johnson's new proposals for breakfast deal with the e.u. That's according to the president of the European Council Donald Tusk was among several leading e.u. Voices to express doubts over the new withdrawal agreement plan Bryce Johnson says he's made a genuine attempt to bridge the chasm in order to get a fresh break said deal he told M.P.'s his plan which would see Northern Ireland stay in the European single market for goods but leave the Customs Union were compromised so what are people made of the Prime Minister's explanations of the proposals to tackle breaks it our political correspondent is Jessica Parker Well I think one of the things people were looking out for was the tone he was going to say obviously you must be aware that last week when he stood up in the House of Commons off the parliament had been. Following the Supreme Court hearing there was a bit of a bunny in the House of Commons a very bad atmosphere as he was seen to have an understatement and it is an understatement. And yet almighty Rao erupted over the use of language obviously a lot of people were angry that Parliament had been for it turned out as I mentioned unlawfully. But when he stood up in the Commons to talk about his proposals he was striking a slightly softer. Nice or conservative rebels he previously obviously based against the government that's why they had withdrawn welcoming his proposals fascinatingly you saw the Democratic Unionists welcoming the proposals over the last 24 hours and that kind of more hardline group of conservative Breck's its supporters the Elegy is the name the European Research Group say he seemed to win a very sane Solly if you like because of course they have a confidence and supply agreement with the d.p. On the other benches they on the labor side on the s. And p. Side on the liberal Democrat side not impressed at all by the plans that he put forward so. Suspicion on those benches that they are designed to fail that it's a way of pushing towards an a deal Rex it Jeremy Corbin's been saying is worse than the last deal that was put on the table by some reason. We've had reaction from Europe and and also from the Irish prime minister who sound a little in convinced that I'm convinced at the moment yeah. The Irish pm saying that the proposals fall short on a number of aspects we've heard. Donald Tusk the e.u. Council chief saying the e.u. Is 18 but not convinced by the Prime Minister's new proposals we have been hearing that Michel Barnier these chief negotiator has been briefing ambassadors in the last few hours saying the big questions remain over these proposals are going to be exploring the U.K.'s room for maneuver and that's quite an interesting point because initially earlier this week we were kind of hearing this volley print on the 10 this was the final offer. I'd say that softened somewhat in the last 24 hours this is a a building block a landing zone for negotiations but look even if it is a landing zone for negotiations it seems like there are some pretty fundamental issues here that the e.u. Are deeply worried about one of them is this idea that the Northern Ireland Assembly. Gets to initially and then every 4 years have to has consent of the arrangements and can therefore potentially effectively veto days arrangements which some worry could then lead to a hard border on the island of Ireland so they're pretty worried about last aspect of the proposal so it seems like if there is a landing zone it's not very visible yet but the key point is from both sides that negotiations will continue well well say the launch. Yesterday into today into Friday. There are talks going on a technical level not formally called Think a CIA sions the sort of negotiations happens a more political level say with me Shabani a Stephen Bulkley maybe Boris Johnson what you've got is officials say David Frosties the lead Sherpa for the u.k. Having these technical level talks as they're being described by Downing Street but yes they are going to be exploring I'm sure the proposals that the U.K.'s put on the table and trying to see where maybe there is something they can do to bring the 2 sides together but at the moment it just seems like things are pretty far apart I think people kind of welcome this idea of. And Orland saying Fran I'm all for manufactured goods but this idea that the assembly gets to decide every 4 years as I was mentioning before making people very uncomfortable in the e.u. And as well this idea that there will be checks because the United Kingdom including Northern Ireland will be in a separate customs and there will be checks somewhere even if they're not on or near the border the suggestion is he can do the paperwork electronically the checks may be done a business premises but I think he pretty unconvinced by this idea say force it does feel like there's a long way to go and there's not a lot of time to get there you know a lot of the listeners will get lost I think sometimes we. Come in and always last in most things in life so no surprise there and I suppose the question I want to know the answer to which is probably very difficult is as we head towards the end of October we look we more likely after today to be looking at a no deal brokered or is there a possibility of a deal being struck Well look I mean there had to be some proposals on the table in order for there to be any chance of a deal being struck because Boris Johnson was saying the existing withdrawal agreements been rejected 3 times he was saying well that's the withdrawal agreement so sorry but that's how it is so I suppose in some sense you can say Ok there are now concrete proposals there's a legal text floating around somewhere so in a sense that's progress however as I've been outlining it seems like what has been proposed is wholly unacceptable to the e.u. And on islands crucially in its current form and as I was mentioning some M.P.'s in the House of Commons think these proposals are designed to fail they think this is a sham negotiation and look if it is the case that a deal can't be reached that doesn't mean that the New Deal bricks It is therefore inevitable because the other thing that you've got going on here in Westminster is efforts by cross party groups understand the leaders might be meeting again on Monday the leaders of the opposition policies to make sure there isn't an age that is their shared aim at the moment they've already pulled. The ban act designed to mandate the prime minister to seek a delay to Bret's it Boris Johnson's of course said he would do that the whole thing could end up in the courts maybe you could see a government of national unity if the opposition parties get really desperate and they try and form a caretaker administration to ask for a delay to Bret's it so there's all sorts of possible scenarios that complain out I think to day developments this proposing of certain plans before by Boris Johnson I don't think it necessarily makes a new deal more likely but because there is such a distance to get the mail to me you've been pretty clear that they're totally unconvinced by what has been put forward say far it feels like it's not exactly a huge amount of progress being made thus far but a lot of people say well at least there is something recent down our political correspondent there Jessica Parker trying to make sense of the latest Breck's it developments the home secretary has sent an open letter to Facebook calling on the firm to rethink its plans to encrypt all messages on its platforms Priti Patel says the policy threatens the lives and safety of our children the u.s. Attorney General William bar and Australia's Home Minister Peter Dutton have also cosign the open letter to Facebook's his boss Mark Zuckerberg They claim the move by the company will make it harder to fight terrorism and child exploitation Facebook says it believes people have the right to have a private conversation online earlier I spoke to Sarah fry a technology reporter with Bloomberg She explained what the end to end encryption used by the company is so end to end encryption means that not even the company can see what you're sending to somebody it's only accessible via the phone you're using So really if Facebook transitions to enter and encryption the rest of their services will have components like what's up where even if something very. Terrible. Or a little happens they won't be able to find it on the other and users have a expectation of privacy which is something that people currently don't feel they have with Facebook very simplistically with end to ending Cripps and it means if I'm sending a message to somebody we did then and the only person left be able to d.m. Create that message is the person receiving it the person receiving it and you and that's it and they are there would be an oath no 3rd party who gets to see it is Facebook moving down this avenue because anybody used head the word Facebook has probably had the word privacy pretty close to it in recent times that's exactly why I think that they want to create some spaces on Facebook where people feel totally safe now the problem is their brand has already suffered so much from the privacy snafus that they have had in their history so even if they promise and spending corruption I don't know if everyone is going to believe in the flipside of that problem is that once they go to an encryption the the expectation of safety that users have on their service the ability for Facebook to take down content that is illegal or breaks the rules or or harasses people or is dangerous they won't be able to do that anymore and they won't be able to work with authorities and that's what regulators are very concerned about that's why we have the u.s. Attorney general the British home secretary the Australian home minister all signing this letter telling them not to move in this direction they're saying that if they do move in the structure in that they need to have some sort of mechanism so that there is able to to fix those problems Stix those problems and find the issues and not just rely on this end and encrypted world today can't do that the thing is what they're asking for would make it not into an encrypted. Facebook would be the 1st company when it comes to messaging to move in that way because Apple is already in that position on the Apple r.t. Does that with i Message and so is something that Facebook says you know for all of the pushback we're getting this is pretty industry standard and this is what people think of when they think of private communication and if they want to be able to deliver and then think of another kind of business model on top of that beyond advertising because Apple is already in that position have we seen situations where that has led to problems when it comes to investigations by authorities absolutely Apple got in deep tussle with the f.b.i. Over this phone that was involved in it in a mass shooting in San Bernardino California Apple is not able to d. Encrypt the phone to get investigators the content on the inside they went through this big legal battle so so certainly Facebook is not alone but already faced has gotten in trouble because what's app is and an encrypted so we've even seen Facebook employees go to jail in Brazil because the company has refused to hand over information that is on whatsapp because they simply can't access it there's no way for them to decrypt what's up to get it we have this led to this written by influential politicians but is it going to have any impact on Facebook's decision do you think. Well I think that Facebook recognizes that this is the tradeoff but I I think that the way that they're thinking about it they're hoping that there's going to be some sort of development in their artificial intelligence technology that makes it possible to do some training elation between user behavior in public spaces and private spaces to enforce things anyway I don't know if that's actually going to work and I think that this this letter is certainly at the top of mind of of everyone who's looking at Facebook's moves right now because they want to make sure that the company doesn't cause issues for the way the way bad actors can operate I mean in in the 2016 election they had election interference but there are so many other issues like that they won't be able to track like child exploitation imagery and drug trades I mean there are all these things that could happen and that they simply wouldn't be able to see and enforce at all which would be a much simpler world for them to live in Bloomberg said Sarah from their own Facebook a company that is rarely out of the news nowadays there's a warning that by 2050 thousands of rivers and streams around the world could be in a critical state a study from the University of Freyberg in Germany says that human pumping of water from underground reservoirs means rivers and streams could become so water stressed that their flora and fauna would hit a danger point Eloise Candy is a hydro geologist at the Nature Conservancy a charitable environmental organization and we thank you so much for joining us thank you so much for inviting me that's quite a stark warning that's being painted there let's start with some basic questions though in terms of water how much is actually on the ground. Well a lot there is about 30 percent of the freshwater on earth is underground and that's compared to about one percent that's on the surface in lakes and rivers and streams and the rest of it falling glaciers So there's a huge amount of water that is stored underground aquifers when we're talking about the amount of water this being pumping on the that's being pumped to the moment what the impact of that on on the one is that exactly that is leading to all these concerns about you know rivers and streams being so badly affected. Well crawl under is really really important for us because it is such a large resource and because it's so reliable It's not like a river or stream where you have to wait for the rain to fall or the snow to fall and it doesn't fluctuate as much as rivers do and so a lot of communities and businesses rely on it for domestic water and for irrigation and. Industry So it's really critical that we be able to manage it in a sustainable way but what's happening is that in a lot of places around the world the groundwater is being used so much that the amount that's stored underground is actually decreasing and. When we and eventually going to have impacts to the water usage that I just described and we see it already only because I spend a lot of time in India where it's already a huge problem oh yeah it is a huge problem in a lot of places where pumping has become more expensive or the arc refers actually becoming dry but there's actually a another silent user of the groundwater which is rivers and streams because groundwater feeds rivers and streams during the dry season well it feeds it all year around but during the dry season when you haven't had any rain or snow for a long time and there's still water in the river that's because the ground water is feeding the river and our stream and what this article brought out is that those rivers and streams can feel the impact will feel the impact well before the other water users well before the people that have pumps on the ground. Of the rivers and streams are just receiving the very top skim of water from the very top of the opera for that's the only water that goes into the rivers and streams so you can have a lot of wells pumping water out of an aco for and not have really any large impact to their ability to pump and yet they've drawn down the water and not have so that it's no longer feeding the lakes and rivers and streams and that's what this article is about our listeners will be used to hearing a lot of warnings about rivers and streams that had to do with climate change decision to deal with that does that make it more solvable. That's a good point it does make it more solvable because climate change is definitely impacting the flow of rivers and streams just like it's impacting you know all this like it's impacting climate so of course it's impacting the amount of rain and snow and the heat that of all affect rivers and streams but that effect is actually really minor compared to what humans are doing directly to rivers and streams when we dam rivers and change the the timing of the stream flow when we divert water out and use it for all those important purposes that I mentioned and when we pump groundwater and those are all things that are that humans are causing directly as opposed to climate change which were causing indirectly and they're having much much greater impact at this point in time and we thank you so much for joining us. On the pole Nigeria Welcome thank you very much indeed let's get the latest news now with Emily on digital b.b.c. Sounds Snuffy But this is b.b.c. Radio 5 Live Katherina Johnson Thompson's ones Britain's 2nd gold medal at the World Athletics Championships she did it with a new British record for the heptathlon which was previously set by Dame Jessica Ennis Haile of the 2012 Olympics we'll have more on this in sport the Irish prime minister Lee over Outkast says Boris Johnson's new plans for breaks it deal a welcome fall short in a number of aspects the plan would keep Northern Ireland in the e.u. Single market for goods that see it leave the Customs Union the U.K.'s pm says it's a compromise the i.t. Employee who killed 4 people at the Paris police headquarters may have been involved in a workplace dispute according to union officials he was shot dead during a stabbings yesterday afternoon door chump was caught on China to start an investigation into his potential presidential candidate Joe Biden it follows an impeachment investigation that began after the president allegedly asked Ukraine to do the same so Joe Sarka has the support Katherina Johnson Thomson has won her 1st world heptathlon title in Doha she comes into the home straight now all that agony of the past is about to be consigned to history as she starts to quicken away from the field here she's about to make a very different mark on her sport 2 days they are there inside 2 minutes and 9 seconds 2 minutes and 7 seconds says the frog 2 minutes and 7.27 seconds it's golfer Catarina John Centonze on the Johnson Thompson broke Jessica Ennis Hill's British record for the heptathlon as she posted a total only 19 points short of the magical $7000.00 point mark she also produced a personal best thing for out of the 7 disciplines and can hardly believe she's now a world champion you know it just makes sense to me honestly Harris all these military days are just big. Because it been so fast and it's been at nighttime it actually felt like a dream in the lights and everything has just been unbelievable and I can't believe this is the results it's just been so many attempts at trying to perform on the stage I'm just so so happy also with the World Athletics Championships Britain's Laura Muir has qualified for the final of the 1500 meters she came through much the faster of the 2 so I mean finals and they are they get big companies base you know I'd rather run the software you know Sammy you know we've got a couple of days no it's not the finest tomorrow but yeah I mean I guess we'll all confidence you know that I can run that sort of time feeling comfortable c.n.n. Meanwhile the president of the International Olympic Committee Thomas Barr says the World Anti-Doping Agency should investigate all athletes who trained with the now banned coach Alberto Salazar Salazar was at this week found guilty of doping violations after a 4 year investigation by the u.s. Anti-Doping Agency barque says the case is very worrying and raises serious concerns asked no and Celtic both sit top of their Europa League groups after victories in the 2nd round of games 18 year old striker Gabrielle Martinelli scored a brace as Arsenal thrashed standardly edge 4 nil while Celtic avenge their Champions League exit at the hands of clues earlier this season by beating the remaining inside to nil all are going to solve Manchester United endured another frustrating night drawing will nail a way to Alkmaar in the Netherlands not even managing a shot on target the manager admits his players struggle to adapt to the artificial surface we never got to grips with it after 2 front of 2nd half of field 1st off we took some time before we got control of the ball game. Come play through the middle is the force that I was just talked to eat which right elsewhere in the competition wolves won one nil away while Rangers lost 21 against young boys and the group game between doodling of Luxembourg and carabao by John was halted for more than 15 minutes because a drone carrying a political message was being flown over the ground players from both sides had tried to bring the drone down by kicking the ball at it that's your license from b.b.c. Sport season b.b.c. Radio 5 the new and show is your place to react to the week's biggest news story. Of all the clear leaving devastating horrible he gets a big thumbs down from me I'm afraid your voice your views here we are 12 minutes to 1 in the morning and what are you talking about bricks it because I want you for showing. The top kill. Today's news tomorrow's big stories on the film's excellent show tonight from on b.b.c. Radio 5 Live this is b.b.c. Radio 5 available on the b.b.c. Sound. Bite on All right welcome back to our poll tonight is John called just gone past 1 37 in the morning the u.s. Justice Department says the country's drug enforcement administration allowed pharmaceutical companies to substantially increase the painkilling tablets they made each year that's despite growing evidence that opioids were being overprescribed the news comes as Johnson and Johnson has agreed a settlement with more than $16000000.00 pounds with 2 counties in the u.s. State of Ohio the health care giant said it was made to avoid a trial on allegations if using opioid addiction in the state prescription opioids can be highly addictive and they lead to the deaths of at least $130.00 Americans every day that's according to the u.s. . For Disease Control and Prevention Chris McGreal is the author of American overdose the opioid tragedy in 3 acts and he joins us now Chris thanks very much for giving us some of your time this is one of the real challenges that is facing modern American society isn't yet is and I mean one of the shocking things about this epidemic is it's really gone on for 20 years I mean the c.d.c. The Centers for Disease Control estimates it is 400000 people dead. When you trace it back it's a it's an epidemic that began when Bill Clinton was in the White House and and it wos right through the presidency is of of George Bush Sr and then into the Obama administration and it's only really in the past few years that it has got the kind of attention that it deserves. And I'm sure many of our listeners know what opioids Ahmed for those who don't can you just explain very briefly yes they are sensually a morphine base they come from a copy of their own war feed based painkiller that been treated with great caution by medical professions around the world for more than a century because they are so addictive and they used frequently after operations they used to clean end of life care of people are dying of cancer because to be honest if you're in that kind of pain and you're dying it really doesn't matter so much of the become addicted but they've they're there though they've been used with care for the treatment of severe pain in certain circumstances and with limited very limited circumstances but what has happened in America is over the past 2 decades driven partly by a certain group of well many doctors but but mostly by the drug industry the prescribing of those drugs was much much more widely to be used for the kinds of things that they wouldn't be in other countries so for instance my my 2 sons who were teenage boys and went to the dentist to have their um their wisdom teeth out each came home with 2 weeks of opioid pills to treat the pain and when you had that what did you think well at that point I kind of knew about this epidemic and I was horrified and and put them away accordingly and one of them didn't need them he did perfectly fine with profane the other one needed them for a couple of nights but you know 2 weeks same Firstly excessive. But it again I think is reflective of just how easy that handed out there's a number that actually very shocking around dentists which is there in 2016 American dentists prescribed 11 wrote 11000000 prescriptions dentists in English. 28000 so I think I'll give you an idea of just the sheer scale of opioid prescribing in the United States in terms of the people who are most likely to be affected by this in the states is it something that's affecting all groups or does it affect particular groups within society more than others it's evolved over those those past 2 decades the initial group that was most effective was was unusual in terms of drug epidemics this is now the worst drug epidemic in American history but drug epidemic have tended on the whole to hit the cities 1st and the young as you might expect most different about this drug epidemic was that it rural areas particularly places. Where people did a lot of physical labor and it was the middle aged that were dying from drug overdoses and the reason for that was that the pharmaceutical industry the opioid makers went out and they marketed these drugs at those areas where you have a lot of people doing manual labor and by middle age their bodies of want down they may look for some form of pain relief in places like West Virginia which is by far the worst hit the capital States in in the country it might have been marijuana or moonshine in the past but increasingly it became 1st the low level opioids and then very very high powered ones that came onto the market in 997 and that's when you see the kind of the epidemic surge when you talking about those high powered opioids that came into the market are we talking there about do you find I mean the Sackler family as well have been in the news quite a lot recently and and obviously that company is each trying to sort of use bankruptcy to move away from some of the legal cases that the peers Yes purdah pharma played in. Instrumental role in this they put a drug on the market called Oxy Contin and an essentially the the basis of that drug was one that have been used for end of life care for. People who are dying of cancer in great pain it was a very high powered drug a but they are that did it and and essentially persuaded federal regulators that it was a safer drug they what they did was they created a very powerful very high dosage. Opioid pill that they said would be more effective because they had coated it with a time release mechanism that would bleed it slowly into your system so that people instead of having to wake up in the middle of the night take a drug a painter every 3 or 4 hours will be able to sleep right through the night because they would only have to take these drugs every 12 hours and they so for that reason as well it was less addictive and it turned out that neither of those claims was true it was just as addictive and actually very often it didn't last for 12 hours it lasted for maybe 8 or 9 so people were taking a more frequently which meant that in a 24 hour period they were getting a higher dosage and one of the things we know about the nature of addiction is that the higher the dose issues that you take or the PSNI the more tips likely you are to become addicted so it was that drug they pushed onto the market and falsely marketed it. That really got the thing off the ground and put a farmer was convicted in 2007 of a criminal offense for that but they carried on doing it anyway after that and that's what you're seeing start to come to a head now is that with all these lawsuits there's now thousands of lawsuits by states by cities by communities and by division or so across the country that it really badly affected by this epidemic and one of the targets has been put in pharma the sutler family which own. Those members of the 2nd family who own the company have now realized that it is a liability it's almost certainly headed to bankruptcy anyway and what they are trying to do is under load the company as part of a settlement with the government is the danger that we're seeing some settlements taking place now because some of those who brought the cases may worry that if they don't settle now they may not get money further down the line yes I mean particular with a company like put or if it just goes bankrupt then it's not worth anything do the the proposal from the satellite family has divided attorney generals in the United States because essentially the family which is made nobody's really sure they probably made $12.00 to $15000000.00 from this drug and it made them one of the most wealthy families in the United States is offering to hand over 2 and a half 3 or 3000000000 of those profits now there are some attorney generals in places like New York and Connecticut who feel that. That that the family should be allowed to buy their way out of accountability and they are they want to see not only a bigger payout but they're also eyeing criminal prosecution of those individual members who are active inside the company particularly those who are making decisions about marketing the drug but there are other there are other lawsuits against and they're coming to a head later this later this month with the 1st of the big federal trials against much bigger companies like Johnson and Johnson which is already been found in Oklahoma court in August to have been also instrumental in responsible for false marketing and for causing addiction and that and then some of the drug distributors which are well known names are amongst the biggest corporations in the country and they have very deep pockets so whilst I think there's a certain a certain pleasure and a sense of justice in going after per farmer. I think a lot of both entities and individuals realize that if there is going to be a big payout it's going to come from much bigger corporations that Chris we began this conversation with you talking about the problems that opioids have had historically in people remember in 1000 the 1990 s. Matthew Perry from friends talking coming out with his addiction but what we've seen over the last decade or so is something on a scale we've never seen before thousands and thousands of families in the u.s. Devastated by opioid addiction Yeah as I said it began in those areas that were targeted but it's right on and I think one of the reasons there were several reasons it went largely unrestricted for 10 years partly as the power of the corporations but also initially it was who was dying it was it was poor people from poor white people from these rural areas who were really regarded by the rest the country as hillbillies and and were stigmatized but once it started moving into middle class America or in the in the late 2000 and anybody any family could be touched then attitude started to change and I've been to towns which have been so blighted by this the mayor will tell you about a child in prison you talk to teenagers about whose parents are dead. It are facts one family after another in some places there's one woman who I spoke to for my book called April Vera who's who's become very active in this and and her son died of an opioid overdose which he got the opioids illegally from a doctor who was essentially a drug dealer and then it up doing being sentenced to life in prison but when she she didn't even know there was an epidemic committed in the late 200-2009 when her son overdosed and she started to dig into it in her very wealthy community near San Francisco. She discovered that 50 other young people had overdosed and died in the previous 3 or 4 years and she didn't know about a single one of them because stigma around drug overdose deaths was such that nobody spoke about it and nobody publicized it and she was instrumental in doing that and people now are much more willing to talk about it but that was part of the reason it spread like it didn't. Chris thanks for giving as an insight into what is a huge problem in the us Chris McGreal day the author of American over there is the opioid tragedy in 3 acts good news James Wickham has walked in getting himself all ready for the for the look at North American spot that will be coming up in the next that if he doesn't destroy the studio and the whole process and some poetry of course and James to follow Let's take a look now at what's making headlines in Italy and Guerrero is from the Italian newspaper La Republica We started by talking about the news that the High Court has ruled that the parents of a 5 year old girl with brain damage can take it to a hospital in Italy to feed or to keep has been in hospital in London since February and specialist think further treatment is futile I asked on a Tele if the story is getting much coverage in Italy Yes absolutely because the clues we have had more than one the similar case in the recent years one were the trolley guard if you remember in 2007 The Who are the child severe damage and at that time that was the same debate taking the child to an Italian hospital and if I remember well even Pope Francis exposing himself and. Vatican my provided the fight against the ship child to be cured in Italy and also there was the case of Alfie. Last year if I remember well. Was a very similar case this is this is because in Italy lows are really strict on the life interruption on which you know of life for support and so that's why sometimes in this really. Extreme cases when like one like it tough to feed a who has a permanent brain damage this is a case when in Italy the child is not considered brain dead so let's say according to the law there is still some hope to live for decided to recover and that's why now the parents of a directly rare keep are going to take the child to general. Hospital where doctors have ever offered to a sister and so this is this is it is 3 then that repeats or so because any into Lee as you maybe know I mean because of the Vatican which is really close to Italy and still a huge influence these teams always really delicate especially. With regard to use the native wishes of course for Baden and other male life support of really related matters but I can tell you that last week there was a really important verdict by the Constitutional Court by the eternal social court who stated that helping someone to to die can also not be punished I mean if the sentence was that that has been someone to die can in some times be low for or can be permissible can be allowed. And this is very important to Dick but it was an issue of course that arrived last week because that changes something I mean that can be the 1st path to reform of this low that in Italy are currently restrict. And tonight low Guerrero there from the Republican newspaper giving us a flavor of what's making the news in it to me and you can hear a lot more from Continental over the course of the next few months here on up all night let's get a look now at once making the news in the newspapers in the states and joining us is debt you can't they do then I put him from The Washington Post desk again thank you for joining us as always and these 2 words are in the news quite a lot together Trump and Biden and China are involved in war as well yeah I mean the whole of last week we were talking about how Trump was trying to force. Ukrainian government to investigate Joe Biden the former vice president who is now a frontrunner in next year's presidential elections against Trump but today. Speaking right to the White House while walking out of the house to. Visit she's talking he actually said defend. The Ukraine to investigate Tom and then he said I want to go to China also we'll have to investigate because he says Joe Biden's son Hunter made a $1000000000.00 from China which start true simply because he was on the advice a committee of some. Investment Fund there and his lawyer says he just got 10 percent investment in it not only but bought and $1000.00 out of it but it really shocked everyone because last week we were talking about Trump saying this in a phone call with the Ukrainian president. And you know faded favor from you though and started talking about investigating that Biden's But today on live television he's saying it this is kind of the way he the past thought if he says things openly then it's not under a conspiracy a secret and it in that he was trying to highlight but everybody responded saying that even like an illiterate tent at this point is saying that just because you do it live television doesn't mean it's not him in beach well offense and also today we had a lot of activity on Capitol Hill where we had a 1st person to come and testify in connection with Ukraine that was a time especially of lightly of crane. And he was there for an office 7 or 8 hours is just left by a couple of us gov And he we don't know it's a behind closed doors but from what a movie heard from people who cannot even listen to the Democrats this say he actually give them evidence that there was some kind of a propos between Ukraine and the trumpet ministration right there says if you want visit to the White House from the new Ukrainian president of. A lot of me is that ask and then maybe you need to investigate tops I also find out how trump all the Korean diplomat who was the ambassador in Kiev to be fired because she wasn't supporting this demand for us to get so he's getting our you know there's a lot that's obviously a lot happening there you know you said before you know this Trump traditional strategy of saying things openly you know hoping that that will get rid of the problem that we have to change his strategy with the him because the more. And the more have a dense again yeah I just had somebody talk about it like yesterday you had a visit from the Finnish president sitting in the Oval Office and been a reporter for bright as I asked him what exactly do you want the Ukrainian government to do above Biden and his son he got angry he's a you talking to me and get a few science at him and he said last the finish leader a question don't. You know very rude in asking me questions the same question was repeated to him today but he bent a thought about it or maybe top some people and he decided Ok I start. From this question but I have to tackle it boldly and then so that's what he did adding to it he thinks his base is happy because they think he's not covering up anything is not closing and he's just saying openly what he thinks and just like you said Oh if I shoot somebody broad daylight off if that and you know and I think what happened to me and he said last before you give President look at a camera saying Russia if you're listening get find all the 30000 missing Hillary Clinton e-mail sent you in the open he was asking Russia to interfere in the election at the time he said I was just joking and today he said China to investigate Biden so he thinks he's is doing it openly so nothing is wrong with it and we have once to gay should follow Pietschmann investigation starts then I think you will learn that things will be different that's going in the States it seems you have one whistleblower come along and then you seem to have a lot more snow on the following year. Thought you would at that time the more people coming in today we have a story about someone from the Internal Revenue Service the i.r.s. Which does the taxes for all the people he said somebody from high up in the Treasury Department was a political party I was involved in looking into the audit so either starts or does all it's Vice President and so this they which is not correct because it's supposed to be just a business socials bureaucratic delays it all fell it's going to deflate it's supposed to cut because it's already true so say everybody starts and this all came through. Suit that's been going on from Congress asking for real it and so the Democrats on Congress saying that we need to get it out. It's all serious this again thank you very much for joining us as always I'm sure that Donald Trump and the impeachment and all the other stories of the happening in the states are going to keep you very busy coming up in the next hour we have James Wickham looking ahead to are looking to what's happened in the North American polls what's coming up the way we've got just about everything coming up with myself and Mr Mansfield as well all in the next hour we are covering all 4 of the major American sports in fact we do basketball major car remember not what we're going to bring about now we don't every about that's true but we are doing more in myself becoming a basketball and answered definitely worth a listen. When you. Play nearly. Anyone at. C.b.c. Radio 5 Live it's 2 o'clock on 5 lie a bomb or a whole town then this is the news on 5 Live pretreated Johnson Thompson wins have a tough long gold in the world after last week's Championships in Daegu Meanwhile it's a mixed night for British clubs in the Europa League you can listen to the show by downloading the new b.b.c. Sound sounds to me. Radio and pod cast and make sure you subscribe to the show so you don't miss the next episode this is b.b.c. 5 Live. With the b.b.c. News on 5 Live here is Mitch Mansfield control Good morning it was another golden night for Britain at the World Athletics Championships it's golfer Catarina Johnson Thomson the 1st heptathlon score ever produced by a British athlete that's the moment Catherine Johnson told some.