Transcripts For MSNBC 20110512

welcome back to "morning joe." joining us is the managing editor of "time" magazine, here to reveal the latest issue of "time" magazine. >> good to be here. i wish i was with the ladies in washington rather than with you guys. >> it's a fine collection of women in washington. you're right. what do you have on the cover? >> we have on the cover, i think, the biggest issue facing us now after the death of osama bin laden, is our relationship with pakistan. the cover line is "why we're stuck with pakistan." there's a rubik's cube of the pakistani and american flag which my boys will like. for better or worse, we are stuck with them. we need them. we do need them for what's going on in afghanistan, we do need them to protect the nukes, we do need them to be a bastion of democracy in south asia and a lot of americans feel like they betrayed us, they were knowingly housing osama bin laden, you know, we have to deal with them. there's a great coat, quote, from a pakistani commentator saying, if we didn't know that he was here, we're a failed state. if we did know here we're a rogue state. the problem is their combination of the two. >> you have an interview with the pakistani prime minister. talking about the trust deficit. was he surprised there's a trust deficit? many americans, look at what happened and say, come on you had bin laden in your sights. >> he was the one that went to parliament and his first reaction was the u.s. invaded our air space without our permission. it wasn't defending hey, we had osama bin laden and didn't know, it was accusing the u.s. of violating the treaty with pakistan. >> they've been in completely defensive stance. the former president musharraf, these reports out there, he had cut a deal with president bush ten years ago, that if the united states knew bin laden was there, they could go in unilaterally. musharraf went out of his way to say i never cut that deal with president bush. they're finding themselves in a position, a very defensive stance right now. >> aaron baker, our middle east bureau chief, a piece by david ignatius from "the washington post" about isi, the pakistani intelligence service, how they play. he said even -- to say that they play a double game, minimizing what they do. they play a game on so many different levels so they're both loyal and betraying everybody they deal with. >> there's also an interesting piece about mika's book, mika brzezinski's book, "knowing the value" in the magazine this week, and just reading it, when they -- talking about economic gains of women, when they come the gains won't be distributed equally. one of the most compelling parts is a chapter called "motherhood, the wage game, the gap is largest for working mom, research shows their earnings decrease for each child they have." that's almost astounding to think of in the 21st century. >> our curious capitalist columnist is writing about that, an issue that affects women all over the place and mika has put her finger on it. i told mika the other day she should ask for a raise, by the way, just to make sure that -- >> been there, done that. i haven't seen the review but you're in that chapter on the motherhood issue and our part as well. >> as you know i have a million children and -- more children than i do. a million is five. >> playing catch-up to me, norah. >> he's got seven. >> you have seven. exactly. >> no, thank you very much. i can't wait to read the review and i'm glad this issue is moving the conversation forward just a little bit. just a little bit. >> i have a question, though, for rick. why isn't mika on the cover? >> yeah. >> because people have such beauty on the cover of "time" magazine is a very hard thing for people to process. that's the problem with that. >> wow. disturbing. norah, thank you. >> rick, thanks so much. another great cover, the rubicks cube that is pakistan. pick up a copy, check it out on-line. coming up next, are our children being subject to, quote, a liberal assault on capitalism? our friend joe at cnbc is going to set the record straight. he joins us next in the second ever "morning joe" simultaneous. the first one went so well we're going to do it again. aaah! 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>> we are. carl also with us. good to see you guys. hi, blake, how are you? >> good, thanks, how are you? >> oh, my gosh, she's great. i love her. >> thank you. >> joe, i don't know how you did that, but blake's fabulous. tell us about "your teacher said what?" asking tough questions of your kids you learned more than, perhaps, in washington or in the business world? >> i see, mika, i don't want to offend anyone, you or anyone in your audience, but i see a kind of an anti-capitalist dent, just about everywhere. i see it under rocks, i see it in trees. maybe i'm a little bit paranoid. blake came home a few times, and some of it was innocuous enough that might have been something about chris christy he heard, we're in school in new jersey, and you can imagine what some teachers might think of chris christy, other stuff is just loaded questions on some of her assignments and i said, i thought free markets and capitalism, barnicle is probably pulling his had hair out, free markets and capitalism have delivered 300 years of the greatest prosperity the world has ever known and it's something i want her to know about. i don't want her -- if she decides, blake f you start a business and want to make money and make a great life for yourself you might bring 100 employees with you that also have great lives. i just want to be proud of the american way. that's what came from the book. that's how it started. >> and blake, i'm wondering, does sometimes, just maybe sometimes, your dad talks too much? >> well, maybe i have to think about that a little, because he does, you know -- >> ramble? >> yes. that's the word i was looking for. >> we were coached, don't -- we were coached to keep the answers short and blake looked at me and said, i don't think i'll have a problem with that. then i just did it. don't we all, though, mika, when we make our living this way? >> yeah. i was asking blake, but yes. exactly. exactly. >> see, he even takes other people's questions. >> exactly. >> it's funny, blake, i think i can connect with you on this level -- >> you're women. >> i might know how you feel, i might not, though, let's bring mike barnicle and willie geist from new york into this simulcast, we have washington, cnbc headquarters in new jersey, and now new york city, 30 rock, mike barnicle? >> you know, blake, first of all, i feel totally mismatched because you're more mature than i am and you're smarter than i am, but i was just reading a section of the book and it had to do -- and your father is going to be surprised i say this, i think, the aspect of school vouchers, giving kids, young people, your age, their parents, the choice of where to go to school, but with a school voucher. what do you think about that? >> what do you mean? sorry. >> school choice, joe, take it away. >> fifth grade, barnicle, leave her alone. >> smarter than we are. >> here's what it would be, blake. there are some people that are dissatisfied with the education they get in public schools. but not everyone can afford to go to a private school. this is where the government might help people by sending -- giving people vouchers to send their kids where they think me they might get a better education. >> to me, the public schools, they're great. as a matter of fact, i'm going to a public school and i'm learning so many amazing things, i just love it. even though next year i am going to a private school. >> that's true. >> i think public school teaches you a really good amount. i love my school. >> you know, joe, isn't it -- it's always seemed to me, my mother was a schoolteacher, that it's fundamentally unsound to take competition out of the area of education in this country which is what happens when you say no school voucher programs? >> i saw an article, almost cut it out, going to bring it home to blake, in the paper last week or the week before, if supermarkets were run like public schools. if property taxes paid for the construction of a supermarket in your own area and you lad to go there, what would it be like. it's the same thing. it made a compelling case that it makes no sense. there would be no food. you know, there would be lines, shortages, there would be -- it's just not the way to run an -- we know that by the results that we're getting, don't we, mike? >> we do, actually. >> although, i'm with blake, the public school system can teach you an awful lot. my mom was a teacher too. >> we're fortunate, she has great teachers. it's a wonderful school. mike, blake says in the acknowledgements, she thanks her teachers and says, because we think you can tweak the free market approach that you get in school, doesn't mean you're not getting or don't love your teachers or not getting a great education. am i doing it again? >> sorry. i was pointing. >> was i blocking your -- i'm sorry. no, i was pointing you to the right camera. you were looking at the wrong one. >> you're right. >> there you go. >> i know what he's doing here. i'm only 11. i don't know what goes on here. >> at least you know what camera we're on. >> hey, joe, it's willie, i want to congratulate you on a very smart marketing strategy to bring blake with you, otherwise we would not have had you on the show this morning. >> thank you. no, i'm not stupid. >> she's fabulous. blake is great. you mentioned the chris christie item. was there something else, were there other red flags where you said wait a minute, not only is this upsetting me and i need to set the record straight, but i need to put it into a book so make sure the rest of the country know there are things being taught in our schools that are bad for what's going on in our country? >> willie, it's not so much really what -- when we talk about what you hear in school, that gives me some teachable moments to talk ability. but i see it everywhere. sorry to say but i see it in the current administration in washington, when i'm told that americans aren't really exceptional, that belgiums think they're exceptional, the french think they're exceptional. i see it in the media. there's a chapter on the way hollywood treats free markets and business and capitalism. there was stuff where we talked about where blake received an assignment and the way the question was loaded, there's a factory spewing chemicals in the air, environmental groups want to shut it down so that there isn't any pollution, but the owners of the factory says -- say that would hurt business. where do you come down on it? i think we actually have a full screen to show you what blake's response finally was to this. it's a reasoned response. you can read it. although -- you want to read it, blake? probably too far away. >> don't worry. i have very good eyesight. >> although i am an environmentalist, in this argument i support the business side. i agree that limiting the amount of emissions a company can release would hurt businesses. because you know, i'm not reading it anymore, but actually, when you really think about it, what if they're making a life-saving pill and you say, cut off half the -- you make them shut down the factory for emissi emissions. i love the environment. it's like -- i think it's amazing, but business is very important too. >> right. some of your classmates, their fathers might work there. it might be a factory that provides power. it might make fertilizer to feed people around the world to produce food. just blake's -- you test the ground water, test the air, make sure that there's, you know -- you're not leaving permanent damage and make a decision. she converted about half her class. it was unanimous to shut the factory down out of 19 kids. after she talked about it that way, i think about nine or ten said i agree with blake. >> after i talked about it, somebody else came up and agreed with the environmental side. >> yeah. >> welcome to -- >> joe, carmen and blake, i want to thank you, i love the concept and i think it's a great inspiration for other parents engaging your kids in conversations about politics and issues. they can do it. it's a great way to really connect with them. joe, thank you very much. >> thank you. give our best to joe. >> i will. >> thanks willie, thanks mike, thanks mika. >> the book is "your teacher said what? defending our kids from the assault on liberal capitalism." keep it here on "morning joe." we'll be right back. 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[ indistinct talking and laughter ] whew! i think it's worth it. working with a partner you can trust is always a good decision. massmutual. let our financial professionals help you reach your goals. you've hung with bob marley? >> not a lot. but the first time i met bob was -- we were doing a gig somewhere in the dressing rooms and i was looking around and i smell this incredible smell, it was like fish and rice and stuff. >> it was fish? oh, okay. >> yeah. >> surprisingly. >> and so i opened the door and i realized that there was some herb involved. >> yeah, yeah, yeah. it wasn't oregano, was it? >> nor rosemary either. >> no. but it made the fish taste so much better. >> i know. >> keith richards. last night with jimmy fallon. >> wow. >> i love that he went on fallon four months after his book came out, promote the book. >> looking like the scarecrow from "the wizard of oz." >> keith richards, open, open invitation, please come on morning joe. time for cooler, you know what is going on now the miami heat are moving on. lebron james has led them into the next round, last night take october celtics down in miami. celtics desperate, needing a win to stay alive. they did not get it. dwyane wade led the way in the first half for the heat, crazy shot here and the foul, wade 23 in the first half alone. >> wow. >> third quarter, wade slices through the lane bore the-handed dunk tying at game at 71. tight game late. lebron james led the heat back and then passed the celtics, big three there. celtics still only down 3. they throw the ball away, a huge turnover, throw it in the first row, lebron sealeds it, with that, heat took over, miami eliminated boston 97-87, lebron getting a promotion here on the court afterward. finished with 33 points, heat's final ten point s of the game. afterward, made a comment that caught some attention, actually apologizing for the way he handled his free agency last offseason. >> i had to go through boston at some point and just like i said, i went through a lot, you know, deciding to be here and the way, you know, it panned out with all the friends and family and the fans back home. i apologize for the way it -- the way it happened. but i knew that this opportunity was once-in-a-lifetime. >> once-in-a-lifetime. up next for miami, the win over the hawks/bulls series. the bulls can finish off the hawks tonight. we will see if they do. did you hear about this, i don't know, controversy, if you want to call it that over common, the rapper. mike is very concerned, as you can see about the controversy raging. he is sort of a socially conscious guy, not even known as a controversial rapper, is common, but raised some eyebrows, conservatives suggesting egg should not have been invited to the white house as part of a poetry event last night because of some lyrics, songs, poems he read on youtube. here is jon stewart's handling of the controversy last night. >> this two-time grammy-winning vegetarian's invite to the white house has the twitterverse very upset. and by twitterverse, i don't mean people on twitter, i mean twits. who took the time to ignore common's entire body of work, save for one poem he wrote in 2007 that they appear to misunderstand. >> when we roll together with a strapped gun, we are gonna be rocking them to sleep. sounds like killing cops to me. whoa, whoa, sound like killing cops to me. sound like killing cops to you? >> the more explosive lyrics sounded like inciting action that haven't was quoting, ends, no time for that, stay true to i so the youth dream come. common says, hey, you knee violence i was talking about earlier in my poem? let's end that in our communities so our dreams can come true. it's a call for peace. but hannity makes a good point. it sounds like killing cops to him. >> you got the wrong guy if you are going after common. there are other guys you can go after. much more when we come back in washington with norah o'donnell,calitity kay and sam stein. keep it on "morning joe." 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[ applause ] ready to go. >> good morning t 18:00 on the east coast, as you take a live look at new york city. returning with us in washington, norah o'donnell, katty kay and sam stein. and in new york, we have willie geist and mike barnicle. newt gingrich has announced that he is running for president. and take a look at, this the 2012 gop candidate made it official yesterday by twitter video, you saw part of it. he noted his former role as house speaker, claiming credit for balancing the budget, controlling spending and cutting taxes. hours after the announcement, gingrich appeared on fox news conceding that president obama will be tough to beat in 2012 with a considerable fund-raising advantage. >> he can't afford to run in a fair election. >> fair or -- >> if he was on an equal playing field, woe lose. >> but you say just on his record? >> on his record, on his values, on his beliefs. >> the former speaker's comments come as another republican hopeful takes a jab at president obama on health care n a "usa today" op ed, mitt romney writes in part, "if i'm elected president, i will issue on my first day in office an executive order paving the way for waivers from obamacare for all 50 states. subsequently, i will call on congress to fully repeal obamacare." romney is expected to detail his plans in a major health care address in michigan today. it doesn't change that he did this in his state, does it? does it? >> no. >> okay. just checking. >> he is not going to talk very much about massachusetts. that is going to be sort of a state that's not mentioned. >> it's different? >> the course of his speech today. >> in this week's "time" magazine, mark halperin lays out his latest odds on the top republican chances of wing the 2012 presidential nomination. halperin has romney topping the list at 3:1 odds, followed by mike huckabee, 9:1. other notables on the list, gingrich at 40:1 and sarah palin, 60:1678 the long shot, michele bachmann is given a 1,000:1 shot of winning with the nod. i laugh at nothing. it comes as a new reuters/ipsis poll puts president obama well ahead of his closest potential republican rivals. okay. let's back up, let's talk about newt gingrich. let me turn off my black berry. just, first of all, what was the music in the announcement? can we just play play a blip of that? i want to understand. what is it? >> announce mike candidacy for president of the united states because i believe we can return america to hope and opportunity, to full employment, to real security, to an american energy program, to a balanced budget. i want your help, because no -- >> can anyone identify it? >> but i'm following bet that reagan used it in some ad at some point. this is like strains of reagan. >> classics. >> elevator music. >> oh. in terms of what he had to say, norah, take it. i don't think i'm going to chime in, actually. i got must-read on it though. >> i think newt gingrich is a man of a lot of ideas, he is a very smart man, yet is whether he can really be a credible presidential candidate. i think he will make a lot of contribution and debates and to the debate, i think in our own polling we have seen on the nbc news/wall street poll we asked republicans what qualities makes them the most uncomfortable? the number one was being a lobbyist. the number two was multiple marriages. number three at 49% was fox commentator. so, of the top three things that make republicans uncomfortable about a nominee, newt gingrich has all three of them. >> and you bring up multiple marriages. i think it's kind of -- i don't know, i'm not sure about personal lives being fair game, except in this case, there was an unusual circumstance when you're casting judgment at a time when you're doing exactly the same, it does become a story, does it not? >> it is sort of the seedier side of politics but especially if a republican primary where there is a large section of religious conservatives this stuff does matter. you know, it's something that has dogged him, especially during the clinton impeachment years. i think the more important thing though is his background in d.c. i mean this is a republican electorate that really disdains sort of old-blood politician and newt gingrich is, if nothing else, an old-blood politician. you have had so many different incarnations during the years. you go back and look at his record, taken so many position on the same thing, done campaigns with nancy pelosi and hillary clinton on energy and health care respect aretively, things that won't play well conservative voters. >> i have a theory about american voters and one of the things they always look for is authenticity in a candidate and a candidate who is calling for the impeachment of a president because that president had an affair with an intern whilst that candidate, unknowingly to the public, is also having an extra marital affair just doesn't come across as authentic and i think that is the real problem with newt gingrich's past, i agree with you, i don't see why people's marriages or relationships should be part of the political process except in this instant where there is a blatant case of hypocrisy on a national scale. america was wrought by impeachment a big effort and one of the people leading that charge was actually having an affair himself. glass house and everything. >> but his effort to explain it is comical. >> out of patriotism, working so hard. >> so hard. >> mike barnicle, does newt gingrich in anyway reignite hope for the republican party? >> well, they better hope not. he is a delusional loser. >> okay. >> with an intellectual chip on his shoulder, might be his biggest handicap in terms of public. he has this habit this way of prattling on about all of the ideas, the new ideas that he comes up with for our political system and it's because, probably, he went to like east overshoe college or something and he wants to prove these smarter than anybody from the northeast, from harvard. he is just ridiculous, he is ridiculous. his candidacy is a joke. >> wow. >> well, that's what barnicle thinks. >> what do you really think? >> all right. willie geist? >> i don't think he is going to win the nomination but i do agree with norah that he probably will make it more interesting, he is a smart person, he has some things he can contribute to the debate, he can stoke the fire a little bit. i do have to say as someone who grew up in that era, he does -- i look at him and i think 1995 and i mean that sort of -- as a bit of a political retread, i guess. >> hold on. everybody stop. norah, put you on the spot you are newt gingrich's spokesperson and you are going to tell me why he should win the nomination. you can do it. >> why are you laughing, barnicle? >> yeah no laughing. >> look, we need -- this is where a challenging time in our nation's history, we need someone with serious ideas. >> i'm asking every done this get ready. >> we need someone who has serious ideas and we need someone who can -- who can reach across the aisle and make agreements with democrats. >> who knows washington. >> who knows washington. he has done that he reached across the aisle with bill clinton, nancy pelosi and others. and sure, i know you people in the media make a lot about his personal life but we need somebody who is smart and can go head-to-head with barack obama. >> sam stein, newt 2012? >> i'm not going to be his spokesperson but i will try to explain why he might actually have a shot. if you ever go to one of those conservative political action committee conferences, always without fail, newt gingrich is the most popular speaker and he enters into this grand ballroom with "the eye of the tiger" playing, people going nuts, soak it is up, gives it the fists and everything. there is an element of love for him and reverence for what he has been and what he can been be among the conservative crowd and i don't think it's -- we shouldn't dismiss it and also, he will say whatever it takes to get people, you know, into his candidacy. i mean, he is following say whatever it takes. >> mike barnicle is after catty kay, mike, stand by. >> you want to steal mike's thunder. >> positive things. >> clearly, we need somebody that can get the economy on the right track and when newt gingrich are was speaker of the house, the american economy was doing well and he can take some of the credit for that and the economy is going to be the biggest story of the next election and the next few years. and i think i have run out of nice things to say. >> just awful. >> i tried. >> that's good. mike? >> i would look into the camera and say, look it the former speaker of the house is not yet ready to go sit wearing paper slippers in his condo at leisure town. he wants to just get out around the country so, please, give him a listen and you might like something you hear. >> sold. i'm in. >> okay. all right. >> mika -- >> i will move on the we definitely need joe to come back. >> mika, off my comment to newt gingrich screaming 1995, a very smart friend of ours, political observed e-mailed me and said bob dole, george w. bush and john mccain all seemed like 1885 and they got the gop nomination. don't count out newt. >> see, willie. good. >> but there's one distinct difference here, and meek cache the op eds that you picked, the "times" op ed in particular obviously, focuses in on it. he has been traditionally one of the most divisive people on the public stage. he has said divisive things about every aspect of our lives, republican or democrat, that you can think of. >> one thing? >> i don't disagree. >> you have to consider is iowa and iowa is the crucial state. there's going to be, if mike huckabee does not enter they are primary, there's going to be a void for newt gingrich to possibly fill in iowa because of other contras of the republican field. if you can pull that off, maybe he can catapult himself to -- i don't know. >> meanwhile, good lord, you all are pathetic. >> why? >> republican senate caucus members were heading to the white house today as the obama administration and congress continue to hash out a deal on the deficit. in a cbs news town hall, president obama discussed one way to spark a compromise. >> i think that what we're gonna end up having to do probably is to set some targets and say those dark vets to be hit. if not, automatically, cuts and tax increases start taking place and that will give incentive for us to negotiate and figuring your something out but this is going to be a topic over not just the next couple of months. this is going to be a values question for the american people over the next several years. i know my answer and i'm gonna be interested in having a vigorous debate with the republicans about this issue. >> president obama's remarks come after a meeting with senate democrats, the senate democrat caucus yesterday. harry reid praised the gathering and suggested republican support for proposal to eliminate tax break for oil companies and how it could help talks move forward. >> the oil company executives, with rare exception, have said they do not want sub-siddys that they are getting. they don't need them. republican leaders have said that. so, why couldn't we start there with a show of good faith, just acknowledge that the $21 billion that is given to those companies every -- every without any need. >> harry reid, suffered a fall while exercising, asked republicans not to drew a line in the sand it comes as house republicans laid out new grounds in exchange for a debt ceiling height, including cuts to cabinet agency budgets and a goal of reducing next year's deficit by half. eric cantor stood firm on his party's pledge to trim spending in remarks yesterday. >> there's no question if we are going to involve ourselves with anything having to do with raising debt limit that it has to be real. too many times, the dealt limit has been increased in this town there have been safeguards put in police and congress then subsequently waives those safeguards. we are not about that now. >> and later today, house speaker john bain letter hold a briefing on the talks. a lot of the discussion, sam stein, has been about what is not on the table in tax and other things. how do we talk if certain things are not on the table, that are key to the conversation? >> everything that we are hearing it is all sort of -- distilled into one very simple equation which is obama want was to spending cuts along with tax revenues attached to the debt ceiling. republicans and some democrats want to propose spending caps which is strictly about revenue -- strictly about spending f they carry all those differences, they will have a problem. the one thing they are suggesting is to do spending caps a republican proposal for a year or two after which a debt fail safe trigger, which is what obama wants, tax revenues, that will kick in. seems like the real way out of this because stlan impasse whether you can raise tax, as you know. when we come back two sides claiming rights to one capital. we will bring in the mayor of jerusalem who says his city cannot be divided. also ahead, they risk their lives for a story, living on the edge of history. we will look at what motivates wartime photographers. our guest, "the new york times" executive editor, bill keller. but first, here is bill karins with a check of the forecast. bill? >> good morning, mika. the story that won't end, the disaster that won't stop, all the way down the mississippi river, watching these crests. right now, just south of memphis. greenville, mississippi is next and then into the record books, areas like vicksburg, further south, and baton rouge, the 23rd, almost two weeks from now we are going to be dealing with this horrible story. as far as the forecast goes today, this is nice. this is about the end of what has been a great five-day stretch from d.c. to baltimore all the way to new york. boston hasn't been quite as nice because of the pesky ocean storm today. only low 60s for you. rest of the country, troublesome weather in the midwest, chicago, minneapolis, all the way to dallas, you could be possibly delayed by strong thunderstorms late this afternoon. you are watching "morning joe," of course, we are brewed by starbucks. 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[ tires screech ] [ engine turns over ] [ male announcer ] only walmart has low prices every day on everything you need. backed by our ad match guarantee. save money. live better. walmart. announce colbert pack on the air. my parent company, viacom, freaked because legally, it is illegal. so i did the right thing and i exploited a loophole. you see, thanks to the supreme court's citizens united ruling, corporations who can't give any money to a pac can now give unlimited money to something called a super pac. so, i took colbert pac and i made it colbert super pac. i just got this letter right here from viacom's letters. i will paraphrase r "we are stupid lawyers who hate fun. if you do this, we are all scared that people might get mad at us. i think we just peed a little. and even though we know it is totally legal and everything, it we're not going to let you do t" i hate my parent company. they never let me do anything. it is 20 past the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." joining us now, becoming a "morning joe" regular, the mayor of jerusalem, mayor nir barkata lot has happened since we have last seen you, let's just catch up first and talk about jerusalem and the future there as well, the arab awakening, the death of osama bin laden, your reaction and reflexes, from your perspective? >> well, think with respect to the death of osama bin laden, we strongly believe that people who use terror should be brought to trial or pay the price. osama bin laden was a terrorist, mean terrorist. hunt them down, make sure it is not worthwhile being a terrorist. so, i really commend and con grand jury late the president and the u.s. people and the free world for bringing justice to the world. >> you have recently said that jerusalem would never work as a divided city that means even if there is no peace deal with the israelis, you won't change your mind. why, if you could lay out for us basically why wouldn't it work? >> the role of jerusalem is to be open for the benefit of the world to enjoy. and today, jerusalem is an international open city. and since its unification, never was freedom of religion as strong and total as it is right now under israeli sovereign tip and today if you look at toifrm and look into the future, to have more and more people from all different faiths come and enjoy the city of jerusalem it has the work as a city united city. by the way, there is not one good example in the world for working model of a city that was ever split that stayed functional. they either become dysfunctional or get reunited again. so why go there in the first place? we have been proven worthy of maintaining an open and free -- freedom of religion in our city. today, good things are happening in the city. tourism is up. people are happy to come and go and enjoy the city of jerusalem. both jews, muslims. and christians. the majority of the arabs, muslims. and christians in jerusalem don't want, god forbid, splitting the city into two. so from all those practical perspective its, put aside our historical rights, and the fact that nobody in the last 2,000 years. we have gone through more than ten conquerers in the city of jerusalem, nobody has ever declared jerusalem as their capital but the jewish people. but i'm putting that right aside for a second, even looking into the future, we have proven worthy of a united city that gets the best for all the world to enjoy >> all right. sam stein? >> obviously the big news in your region is the deal between hamas and fatah. and i think it's fair to say or at least question whether or not israel's settlement policy and also in, tangentially, the policy toward jerusalem, sort of force this deal to come to fruition. is it not fair to say that spreading out settlements actually drove fatah into hamas' arm? >> well, the hamas believes in the destruction of israel. >> yeah. >> and they believe in wiping us to out, just hear their charter, what hear what they have to say. see what they teach at schools and you will understand that they are not seeking peace. >> i'm not commenting on hamas. i'm wondering if israel's policy also any role to play in this deal coming to fruition? >> i don't think the right thing is to try to look for excuses why the ham mass is piggy back riding on the palestinian authority and thinking the negotiations, let's let the palestinian authority get the first slirks 67 borders then we will deal with the rest. >> what do you think of the united states' response to this should be? obviously, the united states has said ham mass is a terrorist organization. on the slip trip in side, they are supportive of fatah in some respects it is a delicate balance for this government. what would you like to see them do? >> i think this government has just proven how it deals with terrorist and the ham mass is a terrorist organization. >> yeah. >> that -- by the way, democratically is trying to take over the palestinian authority. and by the way, we remember, just last week was holocaust memorial day for the jewish people. we remember how the nazis took over democratically in germany, not only in our reege, which is quite not stable. the israeli people understand what's going on. we are not fools. we understand that the ham mass is trying to piggy back ride, use the platform of the approximately palestinian authority to cut the first phase, the first slice of a deal and then we will deal with the rest. >> you see parallel between nazi germany and hamas right now, trying to come to power through democratic means? >> not only i. these are people that are calling for the destruction of the state and the jewish people. they just -- you know, they celebrate. i remember the faces of my friends. i landed september 11th in new york. i remember the faces of my american friends, shocked to see the dancing in the street in gaza. the same people that are now shocked to see how the hamas praises the -- osama bin laden. it is the same people. and so, when you deal with these people, you have to understand that they are not really seeking peace. if it's fine to commit suicide for the holy war, it's also fine to lie. and it's also fine to take advantage of the western world when we are coming in good faith to the negotiating table. >> when you say no divided jerusalem but what -- aren't you say nothing palestinian state? >> i'm not saying that. i'm saying that, look, i see what they teach at schools. first, i would like to see the palestinian authority train and teach people at schools for -- to promote life, not necessarily to promote killing innocent people, first phase. second phase, which i think is very, very important when we deal with the palestinian authority is sit down with the israeli government and work out a deal. we don't have to rush through a big deal that will never work. take it in phases. there's an israeli -- >> saying there is no deal. i mean, you don't want a deal. >> that's not true. if the condition is divide jerusalem, then there's no deal. >> there's no deal. >> if there's a discussion on how do we make everything work, make jerusalem work, for the benefit of all residents, make palestinian authority and his real work together, seek peace, well, let's discuss t. >> what about recognition by the u.n. for the palestinian state? >> well, i believe this will create huge turmoil in the region. it's not defined. what are we talking about? is it -- once the u.n. will define virtual border what does that mean? who polices the areas? do you see palestinian authority police moving to the israeli part? i don't see that happening. so you're actually taking a quite stable zone, israel, jerusalem and you are destabilizing it because there's no definition of who does what. and by doing that you're actually promoting chaos in an area and if you look at what's happening in the -- in our region, there's one -- >> so you want clarity, you want clarity, you don't want virtual borders, you don't want a lack of clarity and yet, you don't want a division either, which would be clear? >> well, i said, no division of jerusalem. >> right. >> clearly, we can discuss mutual relationships. we can discuss mutual lives. we can discuss many, many elements of creating peace and trust. right now, the trust between the parties is -- especially now with the hamas on board is zero to negative. there's no ways really the israeli government or the israeli people should trust the hamas. if and when they become trustworthy, let's discuss a stable deal that works. don't divide jerusalem because we know this will destabilize the whole region and there's not one good example of it, of a working model like this so the answer is yes to peace, but be very, very cautious and not deal with the hamas. >> very challenging. very complicated. nir barkat, thank you very much for being back on the show. up next, business before the bell with mark haynes. we will be right back. 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[ male announcer ] with xerox, we search, browse, and shop from anywhere. we live in a social world. isn't time we had a social currency to match? membership reward points from american express. use them to get the things you love on amazom.com. some of the changes thatare taking place in the economy are ones that took a decade or two to get to and it's going to take us several years for us to get back to where we need to be, but the fact that the economy is growing is a good thing. the fact that companies are making a profit is a good thing. the fact that we are becoming more comp pet stiff a good thing, but we have got to stay with it and that means improving our education system, improving our infrastructure, making sure we have got an energy policy that actually makes sense so our economy is not subject to the whims of what happens over in the middle east. >> president obama in a televised town hall last night. we have got some breaking news on the job market. for that we turn to mark haines down at the new york stock exchange. hello, mr. haynes. >> good morning, morning, willie. >> good to see you, sir. >> either feast or famine h this morning it is feast. let me jump right into t jobless claims, 434,000, big improvement over last week. anything over 400,000, not good news. inflation, producer price index, which is the prices businesses charge each other, up .8%. that is not a good number. it was .7 the previous month so we have got some serious inflation again percolating under the surface. april retail sales up half of 1% that is the smallest gain since july of last year. the president is meeting with gop leadership on the deficit and the debt today. we will see what comes out of that big group of business leaders say, by the way, issued a warning to congress and to certain factions in congress not to mess with the dealt ceiling, raise it and don't tinker or don't risk ruining the u.s.'s credit rating. and we have got european stocks down across the board, big worries over whether greece is doing enough to get its ship in order. commodi commodities around the world are falling. soil down $2 right now god is down $12. largely because china took another step in tapping on the brakes and trying to slow the growth of its economy. the dollar is up as a result. and, oh for entertainment value, oil executives will be on capitol hill today where we will see a number of congressmen who usually bray about free markets and capitalism will sudden lynn turn into populists and berate them for making money. >> ber rate is a great word. that is a great word. mark what do you sense the impact of yesterday's guilty verdict on raj, whatever his name is on insider trading you half is the impact down on wall street? >> people got to be a lot more care half they say on the phone. i mean, it was the wiretaps that killed him. this is a big victory for the government, in some people's mind it is has expanded what is illegal in terms of securities, fraud, insider trading. so it will have, hopefully, a chilling effect. i'm sorry, i'm a pessimist on this score, i think crooks are crooks, no matter what, just try to find different way to be crooks. it should show people, hey, going to get caught. >> hard to believe you are a pessimist. >> who would have thunk it. >> on that issue. i have little regard for wall street or washington. >> you know, i have to point out, i was down there at the new york stock exchange. thanks for saying hello. >> you were quite busy with the breaking news. >> never too busy for you. >> mark works in a tree house, climb this up little staircase, fantastic, a little perch up there, workinging on the floor. we will come back and see you next week, mark. appreciate it. up next, the executive editor of the "new york times," mr. bill keller, on "morning joe." aaah! [ airplane engine whines ] [ grunts ] [ dog barking ] gah! [ children shouting ] [ grunts ] [ whacking piñata ] [ whacking piñata, grunting ] welcome back to "morning joe." joining us now here in our stud yoerk the executive editor "the new york times," bill keller. bill, good to see you. >> thanks. >> let's talk first about the "new york times" pay wall, went up march 28th, got a lot of attention for that. a month or so in, how is it working out? >> everybody is being careful and coy about giving out numbers we know it is early days, things will probably plateau a bit. i can tell you the faces i see on our floor is big grins on them. >> do the journalists like it? we know businesses like it. do the journalists like it? >> we had more of a year of debate back and forth and certainly some people who are just afraid, you know that this may in some ways close us off from the world but on the whole, i think journalists feel that journalists ought to be fired doing their job and if this is an avenue to sort of financial security for the paper, they like t yeah. >> it's got to work. i think it is working, it is accessible. it has got to work, we can't, in the print business, keep giving the product away for free. it is just not working. >> right. we sell the print paper for a tidy sum, as you probably know, and people -- people pay that willingly. we have, i don't know, 840,000 sort of what we call long-term subscribers, people who have been around for a couple of years, still paying for that print product. so, that gives us a certain amount of time for the revenues from digital to kick in and start to carry their weight. >> and then i've got sam steins of the world sitting with us in washington, from the "huffington post," just ripping off your material every day. it's got to be very frustrating you. >> thank you, willie, i appreciate that. >> sam does great reporting. so, how is the health of the paper now? he we heard all the apocalyptic stories a couple years ago, the times is in trouble is it a healthy business now? >> we are still living through a rocky economy. nobody is being complacent, but yeah, things feel more stable than they did back a couple years ago people would come up to you and say how are you in that tone of voice of somebody who just went through a messy divorce. you know, people, i think, feel a lot more confident now and as the -- as the pay -- digital subscription thing kicks in, i think that confidence is going to grow. >> sam, you want in? >> yes, i do, actually. more about operational question. you know, since news is break so fast these days and waiting to hold something for print is almost obsolete, i'm wondering, as you work through the day, what kind of decisions do you make about how to put stuff online where to put stuff online and how do those factors -- how does that factor into what you do with the print publication, can you walk us through that? >> a little bit. yeah. it has taken five or six years for the newsroom to adapt culturally and psychologically to the fact that we live in a 24/7 world. and -- but we have adapted to that it's -- it is an integrated newsroom, everybody is thinking both about breaking the story right now and then how they can add some value to it for the late later versions of the paper. our policy is that most things we break online f we have a scoop, we don't hold it. we might hold something that is a particularly well-crafted enterprise piece that we know isn't going to appear somewhere else so there is a little extra value on that front page of the print paper in the morning but the main change and it is incremental, the main change is that news breaks on the web, we update it through the day and what's on the front page tends to be a little more analytical, a little more behind the news. we will do a profile of the key figuring your rather than just assume that most readers don't know. >> you know, with newspapers increasingly over the past ten years, especially, the value of great art enhances the paper, photography. and you know, you came in basically to talk about photographers, war photographers. we lost two terrific photographers in libya recently. >> right. >> but the element of photography, war photography in this particular case, is value to you as an editor. >> oh, it's -- you know, there was a time, when i first broke into this business when journalist tended to think, i mean, reporters and editors tended to think, photograph at this i fbi is something that decorated the written stuff, particularly a place like the times, which has been hist tore clay word-separate place that era has long past. you know, at least for at least the last 101 years, photography has had had pride of place as its own journalistic thing. the web enhanced that. device like the ipad show it off to great advantage. >> you have one of the great correspondents existing today, jesse jiffers, over in libya. and the element of worry, angst that he goes through an editor's mind, you have a reporter in the theater of war house, do you handle that what do you do? >> medication helps. i worry less about it in the case of chris, a former marine captain, infantry, who knows how to suss out a situation. our policy and this applies to photographers and correspondents both is we give people the best training and equipment we can provide, security consultants, particularly war countries like afghanistan and iraq. we he send a clear message that no story is worth putting your life in danger that -- and we really mean that we are not going to be, you know, looked down upon if you decide to back away. then if you get in trouble we owe you every effort to get you to out of trouble and to take care of you. but beyond that they're there we are not. we trust them to bring back the stories so we have got to trust them to have, you know, the best sense of -- the best antenna for what's safe and what had's not. >> when you were a younger reporter, tell me about going out on stories with photographers, who you and what they taught but newspapering. >> my most vivid peoples -- i did that in the old soviet union and south africa. my most vivid people were in south africa. used with different photographers, but especially a guy named greg morinovich i just wrote about in the sunday column last sunday. greg probably saved my life on multiple occasions, just by talking us through check points, getting us out of tricky situations. you don't want to necessarily be beside the photographer when they are doing their job, they have to have line of sight on the story. there's none of this "a source told me" for a photographer. you have got to be right there and vulnerable. but kind of -- the notion that photographers are these adrenaline junkie cowboys, combat photographers in particular is really mostly a myth. they take every precaution. they suss out the situation. they know, you know, when to get out and they know how to kind of bluff their way through a really dangerous situation. i loveded working with photographers. >> how many times have you been amazed, as an editor, or as a reporter, when you've got copy in front of you or you've written your own copy about a story, south africa, wherever it was and then the photo comes across and you say, wow, that's the story. >> all the time. all the time. like a whole separate journalistic venture took place and they saw something that you missed or they saw it through entirely different eyes. you hope that it's a kind of complementary experience and not that their picture shows that your story is fundamentally flawed in some way. >> norah o'donnell in washington? >> hi, bill. i started off as a newspaper reporter for roll call, a publication here in washington. i used to take my own pictures, so i was both a photographer and a reporter. i have a question to ask you about how people read a newspaper versus how they read the "new york times" online. i always tell young journalists who come to work at nbc, actually read the newspaper because they will read stories that they wouldn't normally read, perhaps not interested in foreign news, they will be forced to read it by flipping through the pages and seeing the stories that interest them. based on what you can tell by clicks online what type of news are people consuming on the website? >> the main thing, they consume news. what really drives huge volumes of traffic on our website is major news event, mubarak departure, death of osama bin laden, tsunami in japan. they get a huge spike them want to know what happens and what it means and they trust us to tell them. the other experience you are talking about the newspaper provides what we like to call serendipity, just sort of the happening on a story you didn't know you were interested in you get that on the web but you get it in different ways, you know, your friends send it to you, they put it on their facebook page, they tweet it. see tonight most e-mailed list and say, hmm, i never noticed that, it sounds like an interesting story. there is still a fair amount of that grazing across its board in stories you didn't know you were interested n >> bill keller, thanks so much for coming in this morning, appreciate it. executive editor "the new york times." great talking to you. >> nice being here. up next, the best of late night. hi, this other store has these for 20 cents less. what?! -match it! -match it! -match it! match it! -match it! -match it! 20 cents less. what?! just match it... -match it! -match it! -match it! -match it! -match it! -match it! -[ horn honks ] -match it! -match it! -match it! thank you, got it. i'll match that price right here. oh! cool. [ male announcer ] we won't be beat. we have low prices every day. on everything, backed by our ad match guarantee. save money. live better. walmart. just a month after misplacing a cobra, the bronx zoo spent today looking for its missing female peacock. yeah. you know what else the bronx zoo should be looking for? a new zoo keeper. too much to keep track of. got my he keys, got my hat. i did mention my keys? i got to keep track of those things? actually, i'm not surprised nobody was watching the peacock. i mean, take a look at t yeah. pretty much anything before 12:37, that's when you start watching. >> special on oprah winfrey's own network the other day, julia roberts, did you see this she interviewed hillary clinton. don't get me wrong, julia roberts, i think she is a great actress, big star, but as an interviewer, i'm not sure she is really in hillary's league. >> well, we are so excited. >> thank you. >> i know you're so busy. >> how are you doing? >> good. >> excellent. >> thank you, madam secretary. >> thank you so much. >> i'm so excited and nervous. i don't know if i should be here. i don't think i'm smart enough to be here. >> well that is how i feel and certainly -- >> so obvious. i mean, are you -- do you just think of -- i don't know, i feel like i would just like to express as a woman, as a mom and really, really just -- >> that's it. long before a cummins diesel engine powered a ram truck.. it roared to life out here. and proved itself here, here, and here. and it's now delivering best-in-class towing, here. and unsurpassed torque, here. the ram 5 year 100,000 mile warranty covers you everywhere. ram. that weight watchers online was for guys, too. i'm like, it's not rainbows and lollipops. after i read this beer cheat sheet, i knew what the difference was between a light beer and a dark beer as far as points go. i use the grilling cheat sheet -- you drag it over onto the grill and it gives you a point value. this is a plan for men. i lost 109 pounds. 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[ men laugh ] [ male announcer ] hurry, join for free today. weight watchers online for men. finally, losing weight clicks. time now to talk about what we learned today. norah? >> i learned -- i learned that mike barnicle went shopping yesterday. >> he is going shopping. trust me. we are going to have jonathan capehart take him shopping. >> i learned that sherry daniels is going to be giving a big speech tonight at the state republican dinner in indiana there are three pro-fives her in different papers tonight. i think we will learn more about whether her husband's going to run for president. >> better. better. sam stein? >> i learned that when i've been pressed to be newt gingrich's spokesperson by you it is not an easy task. >> you crumble. you crumble. norah, impressive. mike barnicle? >> i learned that the boston celtics are actually older than i am and i also learned that if you live in the washington, d.c. area and have absolutely no life, you can report to the barnand nobody this will evening on 12th street, where willie geist will be appearing. >> ringing endorsement. >> that is loaded. that is the name of the book. willie what did you learn? >> along the same line as saps, mike barnicle with his commentary today is put nothing serious jeopardy his chances of being newt gingrich's chief of staff for the upcoming presidential campaign. it is already on the blogs. willie if it is way too early --