Transcripts For SFGTV 20100805

into an illegal grow. you can see from our list that we had a cultivation operation at which no police action was taken. it was deemed to be legitimate. we did have a couple of home invasion robberies, one in late may, one in late june, at residential cultivations. both were illegal. on one of the cases, the subject in the home where a gunshot was fired had a job with a medical cannabis dispensary. he informed the officers that he has a sideline where he cultivates and grows for sale. as i mentioned, there are a number of city agencies involved. there are a number of code violations we see throughout the city on some of these. what we are hoping to move forward to is some type of permitting process like when you attempt to remodel your kitchen or install a bathroom, where you go through the planning department or the department of building inspection and get a permit that is signed off. it is deemed safe. it is deemed secure. we have a legal growing operation. that is our intention. with respect to the questions that were asked, we are in compliance with the attorney general's office's recent case decision on the patrick kelly decision. we are aware that the limits offered by the state for possession are merely guidelines. our officers are instructed to contact their supervisors before taking any legal action, whether it sighting, seizing evidence, or booking anyone with respect to these and other questions. that are to contact the narcotics division or our legal division. with respect to questions about educating our officers who are on patrol, we are getting very good feedback from our officers on patrol regarding these grows. the colorado markup this immediately. the officers that work with me are probably more familiar with the marijuana laws and i am. they are built -- they are very well informed. with respect to documentation, the advocates have come forward. they have produced a packet of safety tips which is in the a detachment of your a o -- in the a attachment of your package. they put their drawers and cultivators work. they are operating in a safe and legal manner. finally, an update on the plans for the gore registry. there is a bit of a problem with the corps registry. when the police to permit registers grow operations that are operating outside of city codes, with respect to the building code, the planning code, and the rest -- that is why i am meeting with the other city agencies. we will hopefully have -- will hopefully be able to move forward together in that operation. annex a has the forms supplied by the marijuana advocates. there is some specific information on negro operations. we have seen a criminal one in annex b. annex c is from boulder, colorado, an interesting law with respect to licensing of businesses, record keeping, security, and taxes. i included that for your reading if you are really interested in the marijuana issues throughout the nation. i am happy to answer any questions you have. president marshall: we knew she would be first in line. commissioner dejesus: i appreciate you telling me you were in compliance with the attorneys office. what i want to know is how you are in compliance. what are you doing? is there a training that goes on? is it a letter people read it? is a general knowledge about the guidelines? more importantly, i understand there are state and federal trainings regarding marijuana. i know the federal law outlaws medical cannabis. there cannot be any training under the federal law, i am assuming. i'm want to know -- what kind of training is our narcotics unit in particular getting regarding medical cannabis state law, the san francisco statutory provisions for medical cannabis, and the lowest priority. do we have a class? how long is the class? who teaches the class? what kind of things are they learning? for a narcotics union, do we have documentation they have the training before they are sent to the narcotics unit? >> you asked a number of questions. first of all, we are currently rebuilding our narcotics unit. we sent down about 10 officers recently. all 10 of those officers went through the 80 hour state narcotics investigators course. i believe there is a good section there on marijuana. commissioner dejesus: do you know how long that is? >> i am not sure. i can get that for you in a couple of minutes. with respect to the kelly decision and the guidelines, as i mentioned earlier, 8 ounces is a guideline. we all understand 8 ounces is a guideline in this state. with respect to these grow operations, the guideline from the state is 6 mature plants, whereas the guideline for san francisco is 24. we are already four times over the guidelines established. commissioner dejesus: the state allows more if you are a compassionate gardiner. >> i understand that. but being that we are so far over the limit to begin with, i do not know if you would ever exceed the 24 plant limit. the kelly decision -- everyone is aware of it. it was a major decision that these limits are merely guidelines. that is why you have the three levels in our department bulletin. officer should contact their supervisor. they should contact narcotics. they should contact legal if they have any questions. >> do we have any in-house personnel who have had training in these? what i am looking at is how many hours of training are they taking out of the state training of 80 hours. is it one hour? is it two? >> officer scott dix, from narcotics. there are a couple of different courses i have taken. one is provided by the state department of justice. it is an 80 hour narcotics course. i took that course probably three and a half or four years ago. i do not know if they have changed anything because marijuana has become such a hot topic. i would say they probably touched base on marijuana in the course. they did not really touch base on medicinal marijuana. it was more of a broad spectrum. but i did personally take a doj course provided about a month and a half ago. it was specifically on marijuana cultivation. it is a 16 hour course. it talks about illegal and it talks about the guidelines within our state and what we are looking at. it talks about the kill the decision. that was 16 hours. >> the doj one was basic marijuana, not focusing on the dispensaries? >> that is correct. commissioner dejesus: was that voluntary, or required for every narcotics officer? >> i know the 80 hour course -- i do not know if it is required, but i believe is required. the 16 hour course is the course i specifically wanted to take. i do not know if it is necessarily a requirement. commissioner dejesus: that is what i am looking for. you went out of your way. is it mandatory, or is it those who really want to find out what the guidelines are? >> i do know that two of us -- a sergeant in the narcotics office and myself -- took that course. when we got back from that course, we obviously killed everybody in. commissioner dejesus: thank you for taking that step. i guess the state really did not deal with medical marijuana. >> i believe the officer stated that on the cultivation course they talked both about legal cultivation and illegal cultivation. commissioner dejesus: but the state one. >> he took it for years ago. i am sure by now the touch upon it. it is such a large issue in the state. i am sure they train the officers. >> that is why i wanted to have the presentation. i want to know what training we are having on dispensaries right now with our department. i am not finding that out. >> i assure you that all the new officers we just assigned to narcotics have gone through the 80 hour course. commissioner dejesus: i appreciate that. but we do not know if the program has any specific training for medical cannabis dispensaries and compassionate gardeners. that is what i am trying to find out. >> i would be surprised if it is not in that training. i can find out for you and let you know. commissioner dejesus: what i am looking for is does the department itself have any particular training for the statutory law in san francisco regarding sex jury, lowest priority, and the number of plants. do we have a training program regarding our particular, peculiar statutes? >> another is a department bulletin that every officer in the department had to sign off on. whether they read it or not, i could not answer that question for you. any other specific training, like speaking about san francisco health code article 23 -- to my knowledge, i know about those because i have read them myself. i do not believe there is a specific training course regarding that. i know a lot of the officers who deal with marijuana cultivation -- i know the specific officers, and there are a handful in the department -- they have read that. they did that on their own. >> i appreciate your candor. maybe that is one of the things we can talk about. i want to have these medical cannabis people give a presentation. one thing we can talk about is the education, finding out a little bit more about what every officer is getting in terms of training. the bulletin is another thing i would like to bring up. it might be time to revise that and have some input from the community and the narcotics unit and bring that up to date. made 3 of every new caucus officer should sign off that they are familiar with the bulletin itself. [applause] >> that was last issued in september of 2009. i mentioned this the last time i was here. what we are waiting on now -- the guidelines in the bulletin are the same as they are now. a considered rewriting a bulletin for this presentation, but it has already been said. it is still in effect what is in our 2009 bulletin. being that there is a statewide proposition coming up in november, a thought it might be prudent to wait rather than brush the officers with a number of bulletins. if there is new legislation we will include those measures in the bulletin. commissioner dejesus: that is a good point. i think we should wait. this law continues to evolve and change. state law may change once again. i have looked at the bulletin. i think it does need some revision. november might be a good idea. when we do it, we should have some meetings with all the groups to have their -- fire, public health, medical dispensaries, and in narcotics unit. we could have a well crafted document people can read and understand and follow. i know there is no science on this. >> i understand. i guarantee that regardless of how the ballot measure does in november will bring the bulletin up to date following the election. commissioner dejesus: if we do not have any real training, that is something we should take up. >> i agree. we should have all the officers trained. [applause] commissioner dejesus: i would like to reserve some questions after their presentation. i would like to hear what they have to say first. commissioner hammer: i will get it in just a moment. i have a couple of questions. i want to start by saying i appreciate your presentation. 10 years ago, the police would never think of sitting down with medical campus advocates like you do in trying to come up with a solution. we should applaud you. [applause] commissioner hammer: we should acknowledge that we are fighting around the edges a little bit. 10 or 20 years ago, you would be afraid to walk into this room. you're in city hall now and have a commander of the police department working with you. it is a different day. we should acknowledge that even though we argue about the edges sometimes. [applause] commissioner hammer: i have spent most of my career as a prosecutor. i have been a lawyer for 25 years. i spent a little bit of time as the defense attorney. at times, i have given advice on medical cannabis. i have different perspectives on the issue. i think i have learned something along the way. the most intriguing thing you said last night was the idea that we could have some system to sort out which are the legitimate grows and which are the profiteers and the bad people. i cannot imagine the narcotics officers feel like they are spending time in a worthwhile fashion when they read a place and it turns out it was a lot of legitimate patients. could you update us on the discussions you have had with folks about trying to develop such a registry? we did check out the fire or electricity aspect but not be reading the place with guns. how is that going? >> i have had discussions with police legal, the planning department, and the department of public inspection. we are meeting next week on tuesday. there are a number of issues. when the police department starts registering businesses that may be illegal -- i am not a plumber. i am not an electrician. i am not a building inspector. that is where the problem comes. we want a legal business. what we're hoping to move towards, and it is going to take a little while, is in san francisco if you want a residential grow you apply for the permit just like if you were trying to model your bathroom. you have an inspection, plans, licensing, and permits. you have an electrical contractor who signs off on your permit. when you go through all the steps, you are set. commissioner hammer: are you in support of such a program working with the health department or something? >> we are in new territory here. we are not going back to the way it was 10 years ago. we are moving forward. there are municipalities to rest the nation taking steps to legalize medicinal marijuana. it is just how each city is going to deal with it and what kind of guidelines they're going to put in place. that is why i included the packet. it is comprehensive. the touch on everything. commissioner hammer: i appreciate your frankness. i am sure everybody here does. the police might be uncomfortable licensing a medicinal grow. what the think about working with the health department and building to move the conversation on to set up something where everybody could be comfortable? >> the health department has to leave here. i talked to a gentleman a number of times. he knows and planning knows and building knows that we need to move forward on this. it is happening. it is happening slowly, but it is happening. the city of san francisco is going to take a while to get it through, but we are moving in that direction. commissioner hammer: it is going to take a push, i think. you have a lot of experience in this field and at least a working relationship with these members of our community to engage the health department and building department so we can set up something that satisfies law enforcement, that is not just people with guns, and that protects legitimate patients so we do not waste police resources rating legitimate patients and focus on real criminals. i think it is going to take some real leadership, and i asked you. [applause] >> i do not think i could get out of it if i wanted to. commissioner hammer: i think you for your work. >> i think it would be easy to give the training for all the narcotics people, give a 1 day training, explain the new rules to the patrol officers. the topic of medical marijuana -- we can debate that every day. the bottom line is we try very hard. we are learning just like everybody else the rules and regulations. we are trying to do the best we can. the commander did not volunteer for this. i gave him that assignment. he has a lot of other things he has to deal with and has taken it upon himself to handle that. we can definitely work on the training. it is not going to be difficult. my concern is -- i think the folks in the crowd would agree there would not want an illegal marijuana growing in their building where they are stealing electricity and dumping it into the sewer. everybody wants to be safe. we will work together. give us a little bit of time. we have made huge strides over the years. we just need a little more time to be able to come together as far as the big issues are concerned. [applause] commissioner dejesus: i do not want to dwell on this but i agree with the chief. i do not want to quibble about this. there are some compassionate gardeners who have been rated a couple of times. maybe if there were on a list it would not happen. when viable equipment is damaged or they have to fight to get it back, that is a problem. i agree with the registry. i just think people are skeptical because there have been a couple of repeated raids on what you have learned our growers. part of the education process may be that people could volunteer to be on a list first. the second thing is when you know it is a compassionate grower, or there is enough documentation, rather than trade and take the equipment and leave it for the d.a. to press charges, we need to work more in hand with the building inspection division, have them come down, or the fire department. that melted wire could have been fixed with a ticket rather than a criminal investigation to find out whether this is a compassionate gardiner. when we work hand in hand and identify the gardeners, we could take more civil action than criminal action. that is what i am hoping we can move toward. >> that is the direction we are taking. commissioner dejesus: thank you. president marshall: i know you have a couple of speakers. let me just say this. i know you are invested in this because you have so many issues here, but not all of us do. all i know is what i have gathered at commission meetings. the public -- i am sure they are not all as knowledgeable as some folks are about the issues that bring us to the table. i am hoping that in the presentation that comes up there will at least say what are some of the issues and how they are being addressed. we went to the department first and then second, but i think that would bring some clarity to some of the commissioners to have the complete picture of why we are here, and also to the public. i think that is what this is designed to do. >> stewart rhodes? maybe you can identify yourself for everybody. >> for the last six months, i have been chairing the subcommittee for the medical can this working group. -- medical cannabis working group. my name is stewart rhodes. i have been functioning in this capacity for the last six months. i have had the privilege of meeting with the commander several times to discuss canada's laws in san francisco. i have developed my understanding of what sort of problems and officer encounters in the field. my presentation is entitled, "other people's shoes." i am grateful i do not have to do the job of an sf pd officer. on a daily basis, they are dealing with people with weapons. i have never carried a gun and i never will. i would be petrified to encounter someone with a gun, particularly in confrontational circumstances. i tip my hat to those who serve and protect. the sf tpd also deals with peope who sell hard drugs. they're probably very disagreeable to confront. thank you for helping keep our streets clean. the real problem is when they encounter criminals who systematically use violence to control illegal drugs distribution. this is a scourge to all like to see eradicated. the typical medical canvas cultivator -- there is no similarity to the people who ought to be targeted by law enforcement. we are unarmed. we are not posing a threat to public safety. we are like medics on the battlefield. would be grateful not to get shot at what we carry on our duties. the patience need assistance and suffered greatly when asset seizures occur. who gets hurt? the elderly and infirm do. chemotherapy patients do. the victims of aids wasting syndrome do. i do not think that any of these people had -- these people need problems artificially introduced into their lives. who else gets hurt? i am 30 years old. i obtained a bachelor's degree from stanford university. i am honest even at risk to myself. i am loved by my community and family. i am tired of my little sister being scared for my safety. there are a lot of people like me in this community that ought to be recognized as assets to their community. what is the solution? the commander is right that we need a formal permitting process. he is also right that it is not going to happen immediately. we need immediate relief, and nothing but a little bit of policy change is preventing that. there are two issues that are threats to public safety -- weapons and illicit drugs. in the event that either of these are found, i believe asset seizure and arrests are obviously necessary and appropriate. any problems other than these are nothing more than public nuisances. many of the pictures showed sloppy ventilation and plumbing. pretty embarrassing. but according to my architect most of these things are considered to befu