Transcripts For WJLA 20100509

attention from a big jump in jobs. all that and our "roundtable." with shelby steele, george will, robin wright and john podesta. and as always, "the sunday funnies." >> the taliban said, next time you want to wreak mass destruction on america, we'll hire bp. good morning. and happy mother's day to all the moms watching. we'll begin with a sunday first, attorney general eric holder. welcome to "this week." >> good to be here. >> let's start with the investigation into faisal shahzad. what is the latest? >> we have developed information that the pakistani taliban was behind the attack. they helped facilitate it and probably helped finance it and he was working at their direction. >> is there evidence that he was working within a cell in the united states or was he operating from directions from pakistan? >> the investigation is ongoing. we're examining overseas connections. that he might have, as well as any people he might have worked with here in the united states. the investigation is on going if both of those spheres. >> the last few days, u.s. officials have met with pakistani officials, the message, as conveyed by secretary hillary clinton is this. >> we want more. we expect more. we have made it very clear that if, heaven forbid, an attack like this that we can trace back to pakistan were to have been successful, there would be severe consequences. >> what would they be? what more do you need the pakistani government to be doing beyond increased military action in north waziristan? >> in connection with the shahzad investigation they have been aggressive, cooperative with us. i think we have been satisfied with the work they've done. we want to make sure that that type of cooperation continues. to the extent that it does not, we will, as secretary clinton indicated, take the appropriate steps. as of now, with regard to shahzad, i think we're satisfied with the level of cooperation we have received. >> did the pakistani government know about shahzad before this happened? >> we have no information that the pakistani government was aware that he planned this. >> pakistani taliban leader appeared in a video last month saying that the time is very near when our soldiers will attack the american states in the major cities. at the time he issued that warning, u.s. policy makers didn't think that the pakistani taliban had the ability to reach into the united states. they were obviously wrong? >> i'm not sure we didn't think they had the ability. we didn't think that was their aim. we have seen with the shahzad incident that they have the aim and capability of doing that. that's why they have taken on a new significance in our anti-terror fight. >> shahzad was on a watch list of the treasury department for bringing large sums of cash into this country. he was taken off that watch list. did the u.s. government drop the ball? >> i don't think so. i think we have done a good job of monitoring the people that we fe need to identify as threats. in connection with the resolution of the plot, american law enforcement was successful. >> more than 200,000 people traveled from the u.s. to pakistan last year. how do you keep track of which ones intend to do us harm? >> it's a difficult job. we have to try to use the various intelligence sources that we have. try to look for tell tail signs of who we should be concerned about. the majority of people that travel back and forth are well intentioned. they have cultural ties to both countries. we have to focus and make sure that our attention is directed at people that would do our nation harm. >> there have been reports that others arrested for terrorist plots in the united states had travelled to pakistan. are there ties with shahzad? >> well, the investigation is ongoing. i think it is proceeding at a good pace. we have a good amount of information in a relatively short period of time. we're going to be continuing to work on it. >> there was a time when the fbi and law enforcement lost track of shahzad after the incident before he got on the plane. what happened? >> well, we lost contact with him for just a bit of time. i think people have to understand that we had layered approach. at the end of the day, i think we were always confident that he would be picked up. the question was, where and when. a surveillance was conducted. we wanted to have him at fairly good distance to observe him and see if he would make contact with other people connected to the plot. contact was lost for a relatively short period of time. >> how long, an hour? >> oh, i don't know. about an hour, maybe something along those lines. what was key was the layered approach. he was caught before he was able to leave the country. >> but he almost got out. we got lucky in a few ways. the reason that we avoided a horrible incident is because he was apparently an incompetent bomb maker, right? >> there was a bit of that. i think also one has to look at the overall operation. he was stopped before he was able to leave the country because of the notification that the fbi made to put him on the no-fly list. we also had vigilant citizens, who looked that vehicle that he left and saw the smoke coming out and notified the appropriate or notes. i think this was a good example of what an aroused american populace and a vigilant law enforcement agency can do. >> some people say he should not have been read his miranda rights. i know the public safety exception was invoked. does the current miranda system, created before i was born and was updated with the public safety exception in 1984, so none of the crafters were aware of this kind of threat, does it give you the flexibility we need? >> that's one of the things we're looking at. i think we have to first say that the system that we have in place is effective. we have used the law enforcement authorities very effectively. people have been given warnings. they continue to talk. i think we want to look and make determinations as to whether we have the necessary flexibility. a system that can deal with the situation that agents now confront. the public safety exception comes from a case called quarles. that dealt with the robbery of a supermark supermarket. we're dealing with terrorism now. if we're going to deal with the new threat, we have to give consideration to modifying the public safety exception. i think we'll be reaching out to congress to come up with a proposal that is constitutional and relevant to our time and the threat we face. >> what kind of modification? more time for interrogation before the rights are read? or what? >> i think there are a number of possibilities. those are the kinds of things we'll be discussing with congress. to make sure we're as effective as we can be that agents are clear in what sit they can do. we're going to be working in congress to come up with something that gives the necessary clarity. is flexible. is also constitutional. >> senator joe lieberman and others introduced legislation to give the state department the right to strip u.s. citizenship to anyone designated a foreign terrorist agent. i understand that the administration doesn't support this. there is a point that senator lieberman made that the president has the authority to order the assassination of a u.s. citizen, the cleric al aqui. this is what senator lieberman had to say. >> if the president can authorize the killing of a united states citizen because he is fighting for a foreign terrorist organization, we can also have a law that allows the u.s. government to revoke al aqui's citizenship and others that have cast their lot with terrorist organizations. >> isn't there a strange double-standard here? the administration gets offended by revoebing terrorist's citizenship but doesn't have any feelings about ordering their assassination? >> i'm not going to assume that what has been said there and ordering anybody's assassination is true, be with regard to the bill senator lieberman is talking about, i have not been able to review it. there are potential constitutional issues with it. i have not reviewed it in great detail. i think what people have to suns, that the system we presently have in place takes terrorists and can put them in jail for extended periods of time. we can put people in jail for the rest of their lives. we can execute people. one has to wonder if we need to go further than that. >> i want to turn to other topics. you and the white house have been happy with the improved release process of the detainees from guantanamo. john brennan wrote -- i want to underscore the fact that all of these cases relate to detainees released during the prior administration. the report says that a detainee that the obama administration released has returned to terrorist ties. did this review process fail? >> i have seen the story. i haven't seen the intelligence that confirms it. one has to understand that the process in place when we took office was exhaustive. it involved law enforcement, the intelligence community. we took into account all of the information we had on each one of those people. did an analysis on each of them and made a determination of who was a threat, only put people in countries where we thought structures would be put in place to keep them from being a threat. >> what structures could exist in afghanistan? >> that's one of the reasons why, for instance, with respect to yemen, the president has made the determination that we're going suspend the repatriation of people to yemen. to make sure that we don't take anybody out of guantanamo and put them in a country where they could pose a threat on the united states and military forces. >> you're not going to confirm that he's rejoined the fight against the united states? >> i'm not in a position to do that. i have not seen any intelligence that corroborates that. >> last fall, you announced that trial of the century against khalid sheikh mohammed. would take place in new york city. but it seems to be that that's walked back by the white house. here's what you had to say about the president's response to your announcement of the trial last fall to pbs. >> he's a person who believes that a president's supposed to have hands off with his justice department. those things that are the problems of the attorney general, all he needs to be is informed. >> this doesn't seem to be the case any longer. are you disappointed that the white house seems to be politicizing the decisions you make? >> i don't think it's been politicized at all. it's a national security matter. i think it's appropriate for the president to be involved. we're working to see where the trial will be held. nothing is off the table at this point. we're trying to come up with a place where these people can be brought to justice as quk quicks we can. taking into consideration a variety of things we have to consider. given the fact that it is a national security matter, as opposed to something else that the justice department might be doing, it's appropriate. >> you have said we're a nation of cowards because we don't speak openly about race. so in that spirit, um, let me give it a shot. do you think the arizona immigration law is racist? >> i don't think it's a good idea. i think we have to understand that the immigration problem that we have, the illegal immigration problem is national one. a state-by-state solution is not the way to go. >> your issue is there are concerns that racial profiling can take place? right? >> that's one of the concerns i have. that you would end up in a position where people are racially profiled. that could lead to a wedge drawn between certain communities an law enforcement, that leads to the problem of people in those communities not willing to interact with people in law enforcement, not willing to be witnesses, not willing to share information. where law enforcement needs them pip thi . i think you have to think about the collateral consequences. i understand the frustration of the people in arizona. it's one of the reasons i think it has to be a national solution. >> do you think it's racist? >> i don't think it's racist in its motivation. think the concern i have is how it could be enacted or carried out. i think you potentially get on a slippery slope where people will be picked on because of how they look, as opposed to what they have done. >> the oil company bp has spotty record in cutting corners and workers' safety in some maces. are you looking into possible criminal charges for the spill in the gulf and ways to make sure that the companies are held accountable? >> the primary importance is to make sure that the oil is broken up and can't get to shore and do damage to our wetlands, damage businesses that are on the coast. i have sent representatives from the justice department to examine what the options are with regard to the activities that have occurred there. whether or not there has been malfeasance on the part of bp or oceana. we're looking at that situation. the primary item of interest is to deal with the spill. >> that's all the time we have. attorney general eric holder. thank you so much for coming by. >> thank you for having me. joining me now is the former mayor of new york, rudy giuliani. thank you for joining us. >> thank you. >> your you're a former u.s. attorney. if you had been in charge of this investigation into faisal shahzad, what could you do differently? if anything. >> i would not have given him miranda warnings after a couple of hours of questioning. i would have declared him an enemy combatant. i would have asked the president to declare him an enemy combatant. we could have questioned him for a much longer period of time. whether it works in the case of shahzad or it doesn't, the reality is the better policy is to give the intelligence agents who are going to question him the maximum amount of time to question him, to check out the credibility of what he's saying. i don't know yet what the truth is here, we shouldn't. i think too much information has been leaked already. the administration has talked too much about it. the more you talk, the more you warn the people to hide. i didn't want the other side to figure out the information we had before we had a chance to act on it when i was a former prosecutor. to get them to tell the truth, corroborate what they're saying, lit take three, four, five days of questioning. to cut it off after 30 or 40 minutes like they did in detroit on christmas day or after two or three hours doesn't make much sense. if they think they feed to change the law, have some urgency about it and go do it. don't just think about it. >> so you support what the attorney general had to say? >> i do. i am frustrated by the lack or urgency. that is shown about the terrorism matters. we have had three now where we've seen big breakdowns. ft. hood, christmas day, now this one. it's about time that we stop thinking about it and stop st y studying it. i don't know how often the attorney general said he was studying things. how about we stop studying things and start doing things? we fix a system of political correctness. in which we miss every signal that related to major hasan and promoted him in the military. we missed signals that shahzad was giving us. going back to pakistan, bringing in, i have forgotten how much cash he brought back. >> i think it was $80,000. several years ago, yeah. >> that doesn't trigger an alarm? even several years ago? we have to fix these instead of talking about them. >> apparently it did trigger an alarm. he was put on a treasury watch list. i am not sure what more could have been done after that. >> don't you see a pattern here, jake? i'm talking about the entire apparatus, not just the obama administration. we missed the signals with the bomber in detroit. missed the signals with major hasan. missed the signals here. maybe we have to say, go back and fix all this. rather than studying it. we've been at it long enough to stop studying and start doing things. >> i want to talk about the fact gnat you think that shahzad should be tried as an enemy combata combatant. can you point to any time that a u.s. citizen was interrogated as an enemy combatant as opposed to in the criminal system where the result of the interrogation was more successful than apparently this interrogation is going? i mean, attorney general holder and other officials say this is going very well. >> well, that's okay. i like that. i'm glad it's going very well. i have administered miranda warnings probably a thousand times. sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. sometimes the person stops talking. depends on the reaction of the person. it's the matter of policy that concerns me. it's not a smart thing to do. don't interrupt a terrorist in the middle of talking to you. i think the attorney general realizes that. that's why he wants to go to congress and get more time for that. all i'm saying is, okay, do it. what they did in detroit, in giving abdulmutallab a warning, giving him a warning after 30 minutes makes no sense. it makes no sense to do that. it may work some times, it may not work other times. it's not the best policy to follow. so far, two in a row, we have gotten lucky. let's not rely on luck. let's rely on solid policy. >> my understanding in the abdulmutallab incident, they had to take him to get medical care within 50 minutes. and that's why he stopped talking to them. because his life was in danger. be that as it may, i hear the point you're making. in the trial of richard reid in 2003, judge william young said, to richard reid in 2003 -- you're not an enemy combatant. you're not a soldier if any war, to call you a soldier gives you far too much stature. we do not negotiate with terrorists. we hunt them down and bring them to justice. that's a different attitude than the one you're talking about. some people say that by making somebody like shahzad, who is certainly less successful than several of the mobsters you put away, who did far more heinous things, that what you're proposing would elevate someone like shahzad. >> that's absurd. you get more rights as a civilian defendant than an enemy combatant. that's matter of semantics. you're giving them less rights. look at the thing with senator lieberman's ideas. the reluctance shows a sense of, i don't know, not understanding the magnitude of the problem. why shouldn't we revoke the citizenship of someone designated an agent of a foreign power? or an agent of a terrorist group? of course we should. we should be able to revoke it. i would be happy to test the constitutionality of that. instead, we have an attorney general that is studying that also. they're at war with us, we're studying what rights they have. this doesn't make much sense, jake. we're worried more about pondering the rights of the terrorists than urgency about curing some of these things that will keep us safe and not have us rely on luck, which is how we got through these last two ones. >> we're running out of time. i want to get your reaction to what happened in utah yesterday. senator bob bennett, lost his party primary. are you worried that republican party is growing more hostile to more liberal to moderate republicans? >> no, i don't think so. i think the reality is that the republican party is very much based on its core principles. it's operating from his core principles. i think that at this point, president obama has pushed the envelope so far that the republican party wants to have candidates effective to standing up to the administration. i see an administration that in terms of economics and foreign policy seems to be moving us to european social democracy. government taking over car companies, the banks, the energy industry, the health care industry. regulated the way the social dom okay democracies, which largely have failed in europe, have been doing for several generations. we need republicans who are committed to standing up against that. and really moving news a different direction. i think that's what you see going on with the tea party movement and in the elections. >> thank you so much, mayor giuliani. nice to talk to you. "the roundtable" is next. police in texas arrested man that used the alias barack obama while trying steal money from 25 atms. officials could tell something was up when a man named barack obama was seen taking money from banks instead of handing it out to them. data generated from an electrical grid. from wires, streets, businesses, homes. when you can harness data, you can do things you couldn't do before. prepare for alternative energy sources, accelerate the adoption of electric vehicles, help prevent blackouts. see the data from energy usage as it happens and you can do what they're doing in places like california and build a smarter energy system. let's build a smarter planet. what will happen if your spouse outlives you by many years? what will happen if you outlive your savings? pacific life knows that tomorrow's questions require planning today. pacific life has the financial solutions and strength to help you and your financial professional develop a plan. pacific life...the power to help you succeed. claritin-d helps me breathe in and out. nothing works stronger, faster, or longer to relieve all my symptoms... ...including congestion without drowsiness. get claritin-d at the pharmacy counter. live claritin clear. [ male announcer ] we call it the american renewal. because we believe in the strength of american businesses. ♪ ge capital understands what small businesses need to grow and create jobs. today, over 300,000 businesses rely on ge capital for the critical financing they need to help get our economy back on track. the american renewal is happening right now. ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] over the past 50 years, toyota has been proud to be a model of quality car making. but recently, the safety of our cars and trucks has come under question. and at toyota, this is something we don't take lightly. that's why we're making fundamental changes inside our company, to communicate with customers better, and respond to their needs faster. in addition, we're currently spending over a million dollars an hour to enhance the technology and safety of our vehicles. the result? our comprehensive star safety system is now standard on every vehicle we make. ♪ don't get us wrong, we know actions speak louder than commercials. but just know, your safety will continue to be a top priority in any, and all of our decisions. ♪ coming up next, "the roundtable" and "the sunday funnies." and "the sunday funnies." here's to the believers. the risk-takers. the visionaries. the entrepreneurs... who put it all on the line to build and run their own businesses. at at&t, we know something about that. our company started out in a small lab, with not much more than a dream. and today, we know it's small businesses that can create the jobs america needs. that's why at&t is investing billions to upgrade and build out our wired and wireless networks. making them faster, smarter, and more secure. connecting small businesses to markets across the country, and around the world. we invest now, because we know it will pay off... with new jobs, new growth, from a new generation, putting their belief in the future on the line. now is the time for investment and innovation. the future is waiting. and the future has always the future is waiting. and the future has always been our business. at&t. what the heck is going on down here? i don't know. there is fear. >> if it has gone down this far, chances are it will not go back up. >> this is without a doubt what is going on there in greece. i am not hearing anything else. >> it obviously broke down. the market didn't work. it broke down. the machines broke down. >> scenes from the flash crash on thursday. we'll get to the economy and the greek debt crisis in a second. with our "roundtable." with george will, former clinton chief of staff john podesta. and robin wright from the u.s. institute of peace. and shelby steele. we're going to get to the economy in a second. i want to start with national security given the conversations we jus had with the attorney general and mayor giuliani. what does this attempted terrorist attack say to you? >> it is that the pakistan connection, if true is good because it indicates the decline of the trade craft of terrorism over time. the underwear bomber and this man are staggeringly incompetent and minor league figures in comparison to the scale and precision of the 9/11 attacks. probably credit goes to both the bush and obama administration for the extraordinary pressure that the drone attacks and the pressure they're putting on the leaders. the bad news, if there is some, is the targeting of times square. let me tell you a story. right after 9/11, i asked jack valenti if he worried that someone could target universal studios as a center of western decadence. he said, no, what worries me is six backback bombs in six cineplexes on a saturday night. have they started to figure that out? >> the ideology seems to be powerful, shelby, even if the terrorists are not as good. the ideology seems just as strong. this guy lives -- faisal shahzad, who is innocent until proven guilty, has not had a bad life here. >> i think the ideology is the story. there's a larger clash between the third world people that were formerly oppressed who, coming into freedom experience that as shame. and came into that really into a sort of a confrontation with their own inferiority. i think jihadism compensates for the sense of inferiority. as they move into modernity, they fail, they're having a rough time making the transition. there's this wonderful ideology based in the idea of killing people, of death, you know, if i put a gun on a table, i'm the most powerful man in the room. i'm not inferior anymore. and it's that sort of grandiosity, of administering death randomly, that is attractive to people who have this inner sense that i'm never going to make that move into modernity. >> i want to play some sound for you from john boehner. talking on thursday, about the attempted attack. >> yes, we have been lucky. but luck is not an effective strategy for fighting the terrorist threat. this is a nation at war. stopping at nothing to confront and defeating the terrorist threat this is how we best protect the american people and set an example for the rest of the world. >> you heard the attorney general. there was some luck at stake here. how do you see republicans responding to this? >> i think you see john boehner there. no one can pause to give credit to the new york city police, the fbi, the customs bureau, for what was really a rapid rollup of this guy, putting him into custody, getting him to talk. so i think that they're almost -- they're on the verge of rooting for failure here. i think they want to damage obama so badly. i think that's tragic for the country. it seems to me that they need to recognize success, push the system to do a better job. i think one of the things that george said is relevant, i think, that there's more pressure now on the pakistani taliban, buzz of more effective strategy that's being employed in pakistan. but that means that we're likely to be confronted with more threat. it's time for the republicans to get on board. i understand it that they almost root for failure on the economy side as well. they describe the job number on friday as bad news, 290,000 jobs. but this is, i think, beyond the pail. >> robin, what are your sources telling you about faisal shahzad? and his involvement with the pakistani taliban. >> apparently, he's singing like a bird, i was told last night. there's also a lot of tall tales he's telling. they have to keep going back over and over. he says he met are the leader of the taliban, mehsud, yet, here he carried out an operation that was as amateurish as anything we have seen since 9/11. this is a group that is capable of very sophisticated operations. >> the pakistani taliban is? >> the pakistani taliban is. here's a guy that buys some fireworks that according to the manufacturer couldn't blow up a watermelon. one of the interesting things was, what was his motive? he was not engaged in a suicide bomb. he walked away and intended to fly back to -- >> left the keys in car. >> to his car and his home. there are questions about, have we reached a point where the taliban doesn't need to recruit people? that there are muslims that are angry about what the united states is doing in pakistan along the boarder, in particular with the drone attacks. and, did he respond because of what he saw when he went home? there's a real danger that we're crossing a line into unintended consequences in the same way that osama bin laden was a de facto ally until after the deployment in the gulf war. turned on the united states and saudi arabia. we have seen the consequences. are there dangers that we're creating another generation of people as a result of the u.s. military strategy? >> there are millions of angry people angry for the reasons shelby mentioned. sooner or later, they're going to set off bombs in america. it's time for both parties to prepare americans for this. this is inevitable, you can't be perfect, get used to it. and to point to the fact that the israelis have a vibrant democracy, a robust economy, and a terrorism problem. >> the response from glenn beck the other day. he was talking about whether or not shahzad should have been read his miranda rights. here's glenn beck on "fox and friends." >> it's easy to follow the constitution when you benefit from it or are not affected by it. what happens when you go against what you want to do? when you want to strap this guy down to the rack and make him talk, but you don't, because it violates the constitution. that's what makes the country different. >> obviously, not fox and friends, it's his own show. here we have him saying there's nothing wrong with mirandizing someone like this guy, shahzad who is an american citizen. you have people talking about changing the miranda laws. i never thought i would see glenn beck as a beacon of reason. when it comes to this specific issue. what's going on here, shelby? >> i think people are confused about this issue. genuinely. i am. i hear all sorts of -- some people say you need -- you don't need, it doesn't matter if you mirandize people or not. they're going to talk, you want to befriend them, you want them to give you information. when they do, it's -- it may be held against them or may not any way. it's difficult to know what to -- which way to go on this. i think glenn beck is taking the classic constitutional position and saying, let's make sure we do it the right way. this is what makes us unique as americans. let's mirandize people we think are terrorists. >> for all those people that want to, as mayor giuliani said, put them into the military system, think if you look back an see what's happened. shahzad, abdulmutallab, the headley in chicago, they were all given their miranda rights. they kept talking, kept cooperating. as shelby was indicating. they got actionable intelligence out of them. if you look at the cases under the bush administration where u.s. citizens were put into military detention, treated as military combatants, they didn't talk for years. finally, the cases ended up being resolved on the other side. i think the real question is what works? and i think there is indication that the path that the attorney general has proceeded down is working better than the alternative that is being suggested. i think the idea of expanding the public safety exception is one that ought to be taken up by congress and probably will be in short order. >> robin, what is wrong with the argument that this is a war that we're in and so we should treat these individuals as enemies of the state and treat them -- dr. sam mudd, accused of participating in the assassination of abraham lincoln, he wept before a military tribunal. it's not like these things were just hatched up by george w. bush. why is it so crazy? >> we have real question to answer. what senator lieberman introduced this week. how do we handle them? what do we do? who qualifies as an american? if you engage in terrorism, is their citizen ship liable? there are questions about all of these issues. how far do we want to go in stripping the document that makes sauce great nation? what point do you say that anyone who votes, anyone that serves in another country, anyone that serves in a foreign army is eligible to have their citizen ship revoked -- >> those laws are on the books. >> that's right. they're not applied. lots of americans have served in other armies. you see lots of national tis where people take place many the american elections and in the elections of the place from which they came. it really opens up a pandora's box. if we engage in actions like that. >> i want to go to another topic. happy mother's day, by the way. it's also europe day. europe is going through quite some problems with the greek debt situation. you have wanted to talk about the greek crisis for a long time. i've resisted. i apologize. why sit, do you think, that we don't hear much from the policy makers, the media, about the greek debt crisis? forget that. why should the american people care about this? >> it's an early heart attack that should alert us to the fact that we could have a bigger one. greece is not too big to fail. it has a gdp the size of the dallas-ft. worth metroplex. it's too connected. what europe is doing and the americans are doing, we're bailing out the banks that have, particularly the french and german banks, that have bought a lot of greek paper. now, the fact is, the united kingdom has a worse fiscal picture. los angeles has a worse fiscal picture. new jersey, illinois. >> worse than greece? >> yes, in some senses. what we're doing is seeing the collapse of a model. the welfare state model that says you can constantly enlarge government on a narrower tax base producing more and more people dependent on the government. the caption said anti-government mobs, they're composed of government employees fighting for their entitlements. >> one of the things i thought was interesting was arguing about austerity cuts. in tax increases and service cuts, is that it's not that difficult to imagine the rits in a similar position and people getting angry about it. not just government workers but conservative activists, liberal activis activists, because we, too, want to have our cake and eat it, too. >> right. there's always the impulse in government to do the good. do something that -- to make sure everybody, every human being alive in your country has health insurance and so forth. it's fine to do the good. but the only way to do it is to also grant people -- expand the idea of entitlement. and make people feel they're owed something as part of their identity. as time goes on, you, as george said, they call it a debt crisis, it's an overspending crisis. you're just constantly trying to do good thing, expanding entitlement. you get to place where it starts to collapse. california, my state, is in dire straits for this now. people rioting. there's no money. it's not that someone is doing something evil. or oppressive. the state just has no money. >> i want to put up a graphic. public debt as a percentage of the gross domestic product. greece, 113.4%. the united states, 52.9%. that's still a lot. that's not including the chicanery and the shell game we have going on. how important is it for the american people to pay attention to what is going on in greece because we're going to face that same problem someday soon? >> they're related. greece is linked into a system that could in the near term affect our growth. the most important thing we need to do is to continue the job numbers that came out on friday, the pace of expansion of the u.s. economy. that's the most important factor that will get our deficits down and get our debt under control. over the long term, there's a structural deficit. when you put that chart up on the board, 52%, it reminded me that when i left the white house, it was 32%, 33 the%, i think. i think there was a lot of structural deficit built in the 1980s. the absence of regulation. the absence of government, the absence of regulation in the financial sector led to a great collapse. and a response to create demand in the economy, put people back to work. but over time, we have to get that deficit down. we have to get the -- and i think that the administration is going to be challenged by this. i think that's why secretary gates' speech yesterday talking about the need to restrain the growth of military spending and use the savings to support the structure that is necessary was quite a significant speech. and probably didn't get as much attention as it deserved. >> we only have a couple more minutes. i want to turn to breaking news from yesterday. in utah, bob bennett lost his party's primary. here's senator bennett reacting to the news. >> the political atmosphere, obviously, has been toxic. it's clear that some of the votes that i have cast added to the toxic environment. looking back on them, with one or two very minor exceptions, i would not have cast any of them any differently, even thoughing that they could cost me my career. >> he's in the a liberal. he's done a few things that having annered them but -- >> he's a classic, down the line conservative. think the tea party people and conservatives are looking for conservatives that are anti-obama. this is a reaction to him and the expansion of government that he has embarked on. as i think it's more than that a fight among con seven actives. i think bennett is in a sense a casualty of obama. >> this is an anti-washington year. how do you get more washington than a three-term senator, who occupies the seat once held by his father, a four-term senator, who before that worked on the senate staff and as a lobbyist in washington? he's a wonderful man. he's going against terrific head wind this is year. and he cast three votes -- t.a.r.p., stimulus, and a mandate for health care. you might like one, two, or all three of them. going against them is not outside the main stream of america's political argument. >> robin? >> it's the beginning of a trend. you have the next coming up, kentucky, arizona, we're likely to see it elsewhere. it's fascinating to see how many new delegates participated yesterday. democracy is about the majority, but it's the majority of people that participate. in this case, serb kind of people participated and their candidate won. >> "the roundtable" continues in the green room. later check out of fact checks. sfx: car crashing ♪ ♪ this is onstar. i've received a signal .you've been in a crash., i'll contact emergency services. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 investment firms wouldn't even dream of overcharging people. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 inact, they'd spend all of their time dreaming up ways tdd# 1-800-345-2550 to give us more for our money. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 i guess i'd just like to see a little more give tdd# 1-800-345-2550 and a little less take, you know? tdd# 1-800-345-2550 if it was up to me, they'd spend a lot more time tdd# 1-800-345-2550 worrying about my bottom line. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 (announcer) at charles schwab, investors rule. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 are you ready to rule? now, "in memoriam" -- ♪ hey, there, georgie girl swinging down the streets so fancy free ♪ ♪ nobody you meet could ever see the loneliness there ♪ >> for the phils, they'll send young right-hander robin roberts to the mound. he won 20 and lost 11 this year. >> it is long gone! a home run! >> this week, the pentagon released the names of nine service members killed in iraq and afghanistan. we'll be right back. if you were to stand at a road and the cars are whipping by, and all you can do is take a snapshot of the way the road looked 5 minutes ago, how would you know when to cross the road? 9 out of 10 organizations still make decisions this way every day... using out-of-date information. the organizations that are most competitive are going to be the ones that can make sense of what they learn as fast they learn it. that's what i'm working on. i'm an ibmer. let's build a smarter planet. and while it can never be fully answered, it helps to have a financial partner like northern trust. by gaining a keen understanding of your financial needs, we're able to tailor a plan using a full suite... of sophiscated investment strategies and solutions. so whatever's around the corner can be faced with confidence. ♪ northern trust. look ahead with us at northerntrust.com. a windy mother's day in washington. here are "the sunday funnies." >> wall street on thursday in a panic when the dow suddenly dropped nearly 1,000 points in a matter of seconds. it was so bad that the e-trade baby had to be changed. >> another attack on the homeland. scary stuff. jim? >> officials have described this device at crudely constructed. amateurish. >> it was a failure. >> no, guys, it was scary, remember? >> the car bomb was fertilizer, gasoline, fireworks and propane tanks, still safer than a toyota. >> the ceo of british petroleum was on "this week" yesterday. trying to assure the public that they're on top of it. he was not convincing. >> how can the american people trust there will not be another explosion at another bp facility? >> we're work -- >> and we'll be right back. - >> and we'll be right back. [ tires screech ] how a car performs in a quarter-mile? [ engine revs ] or a quarter-century? is performance about the joy of driving? or the importance... of surviving. to us, performance is not about doing one thing well. it is about doing everything well. because in the end... everything matters. performance without compromise. that is what drives us. [ male announcer ] we call it the american renewal. because we believe in the strength of american businesses. ♪ ge capital understands what small businesses need to grow and create jobs. today, over 300,000 businesses rely on ge capital for the critical financing they need to help get our economy back on track. the american renewal is happening right now. ♪ it's like hardwiring the market right into my desktop. launch my watchlist -- a popping stock catches my eye. pull up the price chart. see what the analysts say. as ip back, streaming video news confirms what i thought. pull the trigger -- done. i can even do most of this on my smartphone. really, it's incredible. like nothing i've ever experienced. trade free for 60 days on redesigned power e-trade pro. be sure to check out our fact checks later today. our partnership with politifact.com. thanks for sharing part of your sunday with us. we'll see you next week. get inside each. and see what you find. if perction is what youursue, this just might change your course. meet the new class of world class. the twenty-ten ! lacrosse, from buick. may the best car win.