expanding in spain and italy in june. nicolas sarkozy denies all wrongdoing as he takes to national tv to defend himself against allegations of corruption. and setting the record straight, volkswagen denies reports it will launch a takeover pick for paccar. >> announcer: you're watching "worldwide exchange," bringing you business news from around the globe. >> well, a warm welcome again to thursday's "worldwide exchange." you can see the heat map behind me. a bit of a difference to what we've seen for the last few mornings. a bid to the upside taking the stoxx europe 600 up around 0.25% this morning. we had a relatively unchanged u.s. market. they did manage to make new record highs for the dow and the s&p yesterday. adp coming in stronger than expected, the second highest since the beginning of 2011. it is a bit of a catch if you look at the payrolls on average. gains across the board, as i was mentioning there. 0.4% for the likes of the french and the german markets. the ftse mib now up around 0.7%. let's take a look at some of the top stocks today and the performers that we're watching uk infrastructure group about the warning of a 35 million pound profit shortfall. the company has plamed weaker trading at its mechanical and electrical engineering conditions. the european commission approving vodafone's 7.2 billion acquisition of spain's largest tablemaker this time without conditions as they mark a greater drive towards consolidation. we were talking about telefonica and e dplus yesterday. poundland rising 18% in the first quarter and the company issuing a confident outlook for the rest of the year. the underlying adjusted eps, if you want to know those numbers, rising 25%. let's take a look at the bond markets this morning. interesting to see what happened in the u.s. ten-year yesterday. six basis points higher in terms of the yield in the trading session. you have to wonder about expectations for the bond markets. 1.6%, they expect this yield by year-end, bringing that significantly lower from 2.25%. quick check on the foreign exchange markets. quickly now, we have the dollar seeing a bit of a drop yesterday after the adp data. similar story today. i think suspended for euro/dollar as we head towards mario draghi. will he seen on further strength of the euro. pmi expected to ease a little bit. but after the surprise we got on the manufacturing data this week, you have to wonder whether that could surprise to the upside, too. let's get a check in on what's going on in the asian session this morning. i guess you have to expect ecb, payrolls keeping investors there, poised and ready for action, sri. take us through that china services pmi number. 15-month highs? >> absolutely. this is a very strong number at the official levels of the sector. so it really tells you two things. primarily we are starting to see some stabilization after the slowdown in the world's second largest economy. probably the impact of all the cumulative targeted easing that we've seen over the past couple of months. now, the second point is that, clearly, the chinese economy is now rebalancing in favor of more consumer-led, more private internal demand. so remember this dynamic, this transition where the chinese economy is rebalancing a moving away from export-led investment led growth towards the consumer. now, in terms of whether there's going to be any further stimulus, there probably will be, but it will be policy tuning in the first half this year. on the whole, the markets like this data. the chinese market ended at around 2016. not a great deal of activity or conviction throughout the asian markets. as we said, julia, a lot of these indices are in a holding pattern until we get clarity over the u.s. jobs market and close to home where you are. the ecb policy direction. there wasn't a great deal of interest in the indian market today and that's because of what was happening with the exchange operator, the bsc, trading had been disrupted for about three hours across the major markets that the bse operates because of some connectivity issues. it was a network issue. this is quite singularly large disruption. as i said, a couple of hours along until this problem was fixed. but if you put any trades on earlier on in the morning when the market was functioning, then those trades were canceled as a result of this outage. but things are back to normal now, trading has resumed after that network outage. all in all, very cautious session here as we watch and wait for clarity over what the payrolls will reveal and the ecb, julia. back to you now. now, on today's show, as independence day nears, many americans are gearing up for their annual barbecue. we find out why meat prices are becoming hard to swallow. but not everyone will get their grill out tomorrow as storm clouds gather from tropical storm arthur which could turn into a hurricane. we'll get you the latest on that, too. and finally, fields of gold, the chinese want to -- trying to steal corn technology. all that and more coming up on "worldwide exchange." we have had some breaking data out of the eurozone this morning. already the services sector expand in countries like italy and spain. italy hitting the highest level since 2010. but a different picture on the german and the french front. growth slowing in germany. while there was an actual contraction in france. the ecb became the first major central bank in the world to take the first in negative territory. mario draghi said there were more extraordinary policies to come. >> we think it's a significant package. are we finished? the answer is no. we aren't finished here. if we live within our mandate, we aren't finished here. >> geoff and annette are in frankfurt. guys, once the dust settled on the meeting, there were still a lot of questions being asked in the market. the first one, people are unsure how long the rates could stay on hold. it could be until 2018 given the fixed rates. and also unsure of direct policy to boost lending. can you give us some clarity today on both those points? >> well, i think at this meeting mr. draghi is not going to give us any new policy announcements, but maybe he will attempt to encourage the market to think in even longer terms about the duration of very easy money. so rates lower for longer. and those have been the noises that we've had sort of unofficially from the ecb over the last month or so. we have a framework for the teltros. they won't really kick in until september. so that additional liquidity won't come until september. on the rates story, are you hearing anything different? >> no, not at all. i think there was a growing sense of frustration after the last meeting that the market actually didn't understand what draghi meant with how long rates were kept at very low level. and then he stepped out on june 21 saying that rates can well be linked to that four-year period. so we are ending up in the year 2018, as you were mentioning, as well. so we might get a little bit more clarity on that diration. that could weigh on the euro exchange rate. >> you came into us talking about some of this services data. i suppose my question would you, and to annette, as well, here, if the german economy is starting to show some signs of slowing down here, we know france is difficult, but if germany is showing some signs of slowing, and that seems to be what that latest services number suggests, does that mean the germans become more interested in an asset backed securitization program that the finance minister is prepared to give the ecb the opportunity to go out and launch proper qe? >> the ecb is independent, of course, but i just came back from berlin. it seems to be totally on the distance side of things. but he's saying liquidity is too sample in the market and that he was to reduce that liquidity, not to increase it. and at the same time also we have mr. weidman stepping out famously in a speech recently saying that he doesn't think that it's the right job for the ecb to intervene in the market. >> guys, never mind whether or not it's the ecb's job. that included the uk. even if he does decide to intervene in the s&p market, it's not a -- is it? >> well, it's mon at aetary pol stance. this is not the job of the ecb and that will -- whether they will actually revise the program backed by s&e loans, it will not spur inflation. inflation will only kick in once the economic recovery will come. >> yeah. and look, all this liquidity that's been sloshing around in the eurozone from the ltro programs originally doesn't seem to be touching the sides. if you look at the declean in the eurozone, it was until security. all of this is having a real effect on the economy. it seems to me that is a major problem here. how these low rates might cause inflation and such, nothing is happening here. you see some pick up in the spanish manufacturing numbers, but elsewhere it is patchy around the eurozone. so mr. draghi still has a big credibility issue i think with a lot of what's being done here at the ecb. is it working? >> yeah. the big question is also whether these will work themselves into the real economy at an acceptable rate for the small and medium sized? >> let's send it back to you, julia, on that. >> i think mario draghi has been clever trying to putt pull these teltros back to only november. but it's been another six months before he talked about it and we've seen any kind of benefit. guys, we'll come back to you later in the show. be sure to tune in for our special coverage. in the next minute, some of those questions will be asked. i'll be asked what lines of communication exist between small enterprises and policymakers. is it about supply or is it about demand? now allen joins me on set. you were listening into that discussion. what are your thoughts right now? >> well, personally, i think mr. draghi basically says whatever it takes rather than does whatever it takes and sooner or later, the market, as they always do, seem to lose patients. >> what he was saying is the euro is unchanged. yes, we've seen a collapse in interbank rates, but we're starting to question even the point that i made, too, suggesting annette the fixed rate teltros being pushed out to 2014. is it credible to say rates are going to be on hold until that point? >> they're still incredibly bullish on european stocks and european equities. everybody is bear market china. sooner or later, they'll say, actually, what is happening? >> we'll come back to this. meanwhile, u.s. hiring is expecting be strong for a fifth month in june. forecasts call for an increase in 215,000 in nonfarm payrolls. that is 217,000 in may. unemployment is expected to hold steady at 6.3% for the third straight month. all week on cnbc, we've been asking our guests about their predictions on those all-important jobs numbers. >> when you look at jobs numbers, that's really, really strong and it's been slow and steady. but i think it's gaining some steam. i think the credit expansion is showing that. i think we'll see that reflection in q2 numbers. >> i'm going to go for 255. i'm quite optimistic. i think the numbers are too low. it's too backward looking. it's too much rearview mirror. i think they're impacted by the volatility, by the noise we've seen by the downgrade to first quarter gdp growth. but looking at the survey evidence, they show an acceleration in confidence which i think is something that goes along with increased hiring. i would think just about any number, unless it's a negative number, will be viewed okay and that the future looks a little brighter. mean wile, federal reserve chairman janet yellen has assured the central bank will want raise rates despite asset bubbles. yellen said she favors relying on regulation and supervision to tackle risks in the financial system. >> monetary policy faces significant limitations as a tool to promote financial stability. >> its effect on vulnerabilities such as security transformation rpt well understoare not well understood. efforts to promote financial stability through adjustments in interest rates would increase the volatility of inflation and employment. >> u.s. stocks managed another record close as far as the dow and the s&p markets are concerned despite relatively changes. 0.2% higher in those two markets. we've got yellen talking about policy but doesn't cut to the heart of the issue which is in the u.s. there's artificially low interest rates. >> yes. it was interesting she mentioned high yield bonds. there has to be a close into high yield bonds over the last year or so. and if you look at what's happened to the yields, the prelims of those bonds is now down to 3% from being close to 20% three or four years ago. >> that is fine, isn't it? what we've seen is this chase to the yield, we've pushed people further and further down the quality curve effectively to the point where they're investing in unrated assets right now. in particular, my fear is it's what happened when we do get a concrete time for rates to rise? investors try and capitulate and the market can't absorb it for volatility more than anything. >> i saw recently in the uk that some of the large he funds call themselves strategic bond funds. so you as an investors don't know what it's going to be holding. what is the liquidity of those high yield bonds in those funds? there are massive issues. particularly these in the uk of 12:00 liquidity. >> do you think by smoothing forward guidance, by smoothing the information they give as far as ultimately rate rises come that exit can be smooth or do you think we're heading for a pretty big crunch for both of those? >> well, at least we've had a kind of test of last year what's happened. so in a way when it does happen, the market has been expecting it and it will be one. but you still can't underestimate how in -- particularly in those lower rated bonds, i think earlier in this program, people talked about tourist investors. and those tourists tend to go home at some point. when they go home, there's no liquidity and what is going to happen. dow jones are forecasting an extra 215 jobs in june. what's your guess for today's jobs numbers? are you feeling bullish or are you feeling bearish? we want you to join in the conversation here on "worldwide exchange." get in touch with us by e-mailed, worldwide@cnbc.com or by twitter, @cnbcwex or direct to me. we're asking could hurricane force winds interrupt america's birthday party? stay tuned. we needed 30 new hires for our call center. i'm spending too much time hiring and not enough time in my kitchen. [ female announcer ] need to hire fast? go to ziprecruiter.com and post your job to over 30 of the web's leading job boards with a single click; then simply select the best candidates from one easy to review list. you put up one post and the next day you have all these candidates. makes my job a lot easier. [ female announcer ] over 100,000 businesses have already used zip recruiter and now you can use zip recruiter for free at a special site for tv viewers; go to ziprecruiter.com/offer2. small and medium sized businesses across europe need a reminder on why it's so crucial for europe. mario draghi and the team are trying to set the foundation for more actively addressing the lack of small business credit throughout europe more broadly. that's going to require measures like purchase the small/medium enterprise loeps and some securitization. >> it helps situations that the yield is very high. it helps in the situation in the european economy. however, it is still, as i mentioned before, the small and medium sized enterprises that don't get the same help. we would like to extend the help to the smaller economies. the two positive programs they could put in effect, one would be an ltro. another is to find a way to securityize small and medium sized lending. they've been working on that and the question is whether they'll be able to do it. >> patrick libble joins me now on the phone for liverpool. patrick, thank you for joining us. mario draghi accepts that there's still a problem as far as financing is concerned. but he does say the situation is improving. is it? >> well, there's two things. since the financial crisis, we've seen that the negotiations that were held in basul 3 have resulted in the capital requirements directive and an amendment to it, which is known as crd 4. and basically banks are required to attain more capital, which naturally affects bank lending behavior. recently, banks have made claims that they're, in fact, offering bank loans but that there is a lack of demand. that's not really a fair statement. yes, bank loans are available to such an extent that it's not feasible. on top of that, banks are asking for collateral even if the banks are financially stable and owns assets. so we don't see a very strong improvement in bank lending at all. >> so right now, you're saying the banks are making unfair demands on what are actually very viable companies and growing concerns right now? what more do you think the central bank can do here? >> well, there is a development at the european commission level or european union level in general, which is rather worrying. the commission is entirely focused on equity financing, venture capital in particular. and it seems as though venture capital is the answer to everything. venture capitalists are looking for companies with high risk and high return and most small businesses don't fit that profile. therefore, they're not eligible for venture capital. the first source of financing is still the old fashioned bank loan. so what we would like to see is for the eu to stimulate bank lending. >> does that mean it has to be done at the national level surely and not at the ecb level? >> well, i think at eu level that could also be a stimulation of loan guarantee schemes. for instance, by subsidies. obviously, in the end, there's plenty to do. >> there was an article in the sc talking about delays in terms of details regarding the possible securitization program and acrobat securities. does that give you further worry that basically nothing will change? >> well, that's always a worry we have. these processes take a long time, especially if they have to go through the procedure. it can take years. so there is always a worry that this doesn't happen. >> patrick, are officials having conversations with you to understand the difficulties right now? what kind of dialogue is there? >> well, the ecb itself, we don't have a lot of dialogue with them. the eu institutions, most certainly. we are well established organization and that means that they include us in very early stages of decision making. we have discussions with them about ideas of future legislation. basically, we're 234068d in the stages that proceed the green papers, even. and then i have to say that the commission does consult us through the process. but there is also the european parliament and often times the european commission has a good idea, a solid proposal, but it becomes amended so heavily in the european parliament that not much is left of it. >> absolutely, it's not acti actionable. i want that. now, in corporate news, volkswagen has denied reports it's eyeing a bid for u.s. truckmaker paccar. the head of daimler's truck division made comments late wednesday, saying multiple sources have said volkswagen will make the move next year. shares are trading higher in frankfurt trade. >> now, we are waiting for the uk services pmi data out this morning, the forecast at 58.4 and it's come in at 57.7. so actually, a significant weaker than expectations. expectations are actually a slight pullback, 58.2. just in line with what we've seen in previous months. socgen saying this morning that the expected contraction is to be more in line with what we're seeing in the services secretary either of the uk. but that's significantly weaker right now. we're seeing sterling around 20 pits lower, so a such lower, sterling, as a result of that slightly weaker services pmi data than expected this morning. stay tuned. we'll be getting a taste of what it's like to operate in the services center. kent bowen is coming up in around ten minutes time. a chinese national gets popped by the cops. plucking to steal u.s. corn feed technology. all the details, up next. jobs thursday is here. a strong reading expected as wall street locks in another record close. business fed chair janet yellen holds firm on low rates saying she'll not tackle rising asset prices through monetary policy. >> monetary policy faces significant limitations as a tool to promote financial stability. >> out on the periphery eurozone will give a boost to mario draghi. . the services sector expanding in spain and italy in june. nicolas sarkozy denies all wrongdoing as he defends himself against corruption charges. and setting the record straight, volkswagen denies reports it will launch a takeover bid for u.s. truckmaker paccar. the european markets this morning holding in positive territory across the board around 0.3% gains as we wait for discussions from mario draghi. that is one of the things we're going to be watching out for as we move across the session. we've got payrolls friday. thursday today, as i just mentioned there, too. the dollar was bid after those surprising numbers in the market. euro/dollar holding steady, 1.3660 the level right now as we wait for mario draghi. slight touch lower as far as sterling is concerned. 1.4120. down around 20 points from that surprisingly weaker pmi number from the uk just now. now, talking of pmis, china's official services pmi eased slightly compared with a 55.5 reading in may. with a private survey by hsbc market shows a significant jump in the sector with the reading coming in at 15-month high. the numbers out earlier this week suggesting the economy is steadying. we're joined now by michael. i think the market is pretty calm right now, that we're looking at a soft landing scenario as far as the chinese economy is concerned. you don't buy the soft landing argument. you talk about a long landing from china. let me see what that looks like. >> well, china can generate as much growth as it wants as long as it allows credit to continue growing. and credit is growing much too quickly. so if we were to maintain growth rates at 7% or 6% for another two or three careers, the risk there is that debt levels become so large that we end up with a very, very difficult adjustment, what people would call a very hard landing. so the options aren't between a soft landing and a hard landing. the options are between a long landing, by which i mean over several years growth rates will drop down by 100, 150 dips every year or a period of what looks like a soft landing followed by a very, very difficult contraction, a horrible hard landing. >> you are talking about a situation where perhaps from next year on wards, a 6% in china, 5% in china. >> that would be the best case scenario. >> how would we know that if we don't continue to see this reading that the chinese spit out for us, that we aren't already seeing the potential blowup scenarios, only to collapse in two years' time? >> well, many people have argued that growth rates are lower than the official numbers. i don't know if i agree or disagree. but what i would look at more than anything else are two things. employment and the credit growth. credit growth is still way too high. but unemployment is fairley good. there doesn't seem much evidence of significant unemployment. we're adjusting so far in an orderly way and we would like to see that continue. >> most people expect if you're looking at china with a growth rate of 5% we're threatening potential social explosion. you're saying we could see a 5% rate in a couple of years time and not have that problem? >> i think it's a great myth that if we see significant lower gdp numbers we're going to have a rise in unemployment. rebalancing in china by definition makes a transfer of wealth to the household sector. and if you look at all the reforms, that's exactly what they do. so a rebalance in china is a china in which household income is growing faster than gdp after many years of the opposite. >> allen, come in here because i fail to see how the market right now would accept a 6% growth result in china next year and even lower beyond that without having a real.whooper. >> personally, i don't think so. i think it's kind of slightly insane that people get so obsessed with whether it's 7% or 7.5%. >> they obviously don't believe it. >> talk to me about that. >> china tends to be a market where everybody has strong reviews. people seem to either love it or hate it. >> if you look in terms of the companies or the earnings, companies are growing reasonably strongly. not particularly higher than other markets. but you're just paying a much lower valuation. so your margin of safety, which is what buffett teacher is benjamin talk is much higher if you're buying assets at a lower price. >> when i speak to managers in the asia region, they tell me banks are preparing for a default. they're preparing for the officials in china to let something go to underline the point that they're ready for reform. >> i think the financial times correctly referred to that as the pretend default. we want the benefits of the default. but we don't want the chaos that's associated with default. unfortunately it's the chaos and pain of the default that allows us to discipline. you run the risk of a real run on the wealth management products. ultimately, all of that we shift to the balance sheets, anyway. don't expect a significant number of defaults. >> you're saying investors putting money into the shanghai markets now? >> we believe in balance. so we have 1% to 2% in mainland chinese equities. we feel eats a huge premium to their equities. if you buy the mainland index, it's less skewed towards banks and financials which is where the main issues are in terms of what's going to happen for nonperforming loans going out. the wealth management products, what's going to happen to those. so as a basis for investment, we believe having balance, doing it in a sensible way and doing it cheaply and chinese shares are about as cheap as you can get. >> thank you so much. malaysian state fund cavanaugh has plans to take malaysian airlines private. it would be the first step of restructuring the airlines, especially in the wake of the disappearance of flight 370. a chinese woman has been arrested in california for trying to steal u.s. seed technology. they were charged with stealing corn seed in the states of illinois and iowa. she was similarly convicted last year. according to court documents, corn seed was hidden in boxes of microwave popcorn and packed in luggage for a flight to beijing. she is married to the chairman of beijing's technology group, a group that includes a corn subsidiary. now, former french president nicolas sarkozy has taken to national tv to defend himself against allegations of corruption. stephane is in paris. stephane, what's the take on his defense last night? what are ordinary people in france saying? it's going to be potentially crucial for a presidential bid. >> justice has been -- and on planning to come back. >> the former president announced he would make a decision by the beginning of september or end of august. he indicated there was no question about renouncing. sarkozy announced no wrongdoing. >> translator: i want to tell those who are listening to us or those who are watching us that i never betrayed their confidence, that i never did anything contrary to the republican principals or the rule of law. >> nicolas sarkozy accused the french justice system to be used for political revenge in order to humiliate him. he accused the prime minister of justice of manipulating the process and being aware of some details on the probe that should not have been known by them. earlier this week, the former head was based under investigation, a procedure that often leads to trial, but not always. the investigation will need to find out if sarkozy tried to get a judge promoted in exchange for confidential information in -- regardi an inquiry. sarkozy could face up to ten years in jail and a maximum fine of 1 million euros. moscow in kiev has agreed to hold discussions to work towards a cease-fire. the ukrainian president poroshenko has launched levels in the east of the country since the ending of the union literal truce. after that, germany's prime minister is hopeful for a good outcome. >> to reach an agreement on a bundle of measures that all taken together can pave the way to a resilient mutual cease-fire. stay tuned. we will talked to anders fogh rasmussen. that's coming up at 1:50 cet. as the u.s. economy continues to surge ahead, is it all good news for the country's service industry? we get a taste on the current operating conditions with the ceo of lupita restaurants. we needed 30 new hires for our call center. i'm spending too much time hiring and not enough time in my kitchen. [ female announcer ] need to hire fast? go to ziprecruiter.com and post your job to over 30 of the web's leading job boards with a single click; then simply select the best candidates from one easy to review list. you put up one post and the next day you have all these candidates. makes my job a lot easier. [ female announcer ] over 100,000 businesses have already used zip recruiter and now you can use zip recruiter for free at a special site for tv viewers; go to ziprecruiter.com/offer2. the uk services pmi fell to 7.7 in june, down from 58.6 back in may. it's the lowest level in three months, although employment in the sector rose at a record pace. one of the biggest beneficiaries of the recent pick up in the uk economy is the country's booming restaurant market. according to pwc, the eating out industry is now worth mover than 40 billion pounds for the country's economy. despite increasing competition in property, one business looking to benefit from the pick up in the uk services sector is lupita, which is now on the hunt for a third site. the ceo joins me now on set. good morning. >> good morning, julia. >> you've been in the uk since 2010. give me the extent of what you're seeing as far as a pick up in revenues are concern, as recoveries start to take hold. >> sure. we've seen in the last two years a significant increase in the recovery. the olympics here, obviously, was a very significant increase for us. we did quite well. but ever since then, we've seen a strengthening in the customer to an increase in the year over year sales and an increase in the spend per head and an increase in the premium product sales. >> you start to see a pick up in consumer spending, that's going to increase competition in the sector. how are you doing that? >> quality and value are the two things that consumers really want. we focus on quality, a sense of products that a big competitor just can't compete with. i think there is -- the small business person does have a little bit of an advantage is that they can offer a higher quality and a better value. >> what about hiring? what are your thoughts there? is it getting more difficult in terms of paying wages? >> there is an increased competitive level for employees, especially qualified employees in the language and also that are passionate about the business. so i think there's a lot of folks out there looking for work. but i think it takes a definite passion for service and really wanting to work in that industry. >> you've been in the uk for four years now. but obviously, you've got a broader history than that. but here you can provide a few years of accounts, you have a good business model, you're looking ahead to what you can achieve. how easy is it for you to get financing? it's a hot topic for you today. >> unfortunately it's much more difficult than i think people realize. we fund our growth organically. i have looked at bank financing, but really, it's just not available at rates that small business owners are really going to be interested in. so i think that once the funding is available, the small business owner has figured it out on their own. >> we'll be speaking to that small business alliance a few minutes ago. he was saying look, the banks are making far greater demands than you would think. collaterally, when you have an asset backing the loan you're trying to achieve, it's just too much, isn't it? >> it really is. i understand the conundrum. there's a difficulty in lending to a risky business, right? the banks have regulators that will look at those things. i understand that. but when small businesses needs the funds, they're just not available. >> fantastic to talk to you, ken. good luck. >> thank you. >> sticking with the food theme, the fourth of july holiday is prime time for americans to celebrate the birth of their country while chowing down on burgers and steaks fresh off the grill. but these prices have been spiking to all-time high hes rece recently. >> i'm here in southeastern minnesota where cattle farms like this are witnessing the biggest price rallies they've seen in decades amid unusual supply and demand issues in their markets. a usda report showed in january, at 82 million, the number of cattle and cavs in territory were the lowest since 1981. beef is the third highest commodity after coffee and hogs. they're now looking at the possibility of raising beef prices on the menu. and demand really hasn't waned. >> at some point, i think they get to the point and say, hey, i've got to do something. i have to change my pricing structure and i think that will be the case for beef long-term. this isn't a problem that goes away quickly. it's something that takes two years to turn around. >> the price bonanza means the cattle farmers are now starting to hold back to produce meat. despite a waiting period of 18 months or more between raising them and bringing them to market. that and other factors means in the third quarter, we could see even higher prices than we are now. back to you. tropical storm arthur is expected to develop hurricane force winds over the next few hours along the u.s. east coast. kerry sanders has more from the shores of north carolina. >> live in this area, having experienced nasty weather before, know that even a tropical storm can be very dangerous. arthur is expected to impact this area as early as friday morning. and by then, it could be a category one hurricane. >> in angry seas yet. the weather forecasters say stand by. residents on the outer banks who went through hurricane irene three years ago know the routine. the four-foot storm surge in that hurricane washed away portions of north carolina highway 12, cutting off cape hatteras from the mainland. this will be the first test of that re-engineered, rebuilt highway. >> don't put your stupid hat on. >> the north carolina governor declared a state of emergency along the coast today. already, hardware stores report lieutenants cleaned up battery supplies. but there's still plenty to board up. among the worried from florida to virginia, those lured into the atlantic by bigger than usual waves, hidden below powerful rip currents. >> usually most injuries occur right before a storm or right after a storm. >> traffic to the outer banks is already building. this area is a popular july 4th destination. hotels in kill devil hills say their phones have been nonstop. >> we're hoping people will still stay with us and enjoy the rest of their weekend. >> farmers along the coast are worried about corn and bean crops. >> early in the season, they still could blow it down and worry it. >> everyone is worried. if arthur just brushes this area, it will still rain from here all the way north, which is why tonight in five states from north carolina up to massachusetts, fireworks shows have been postponed. >> elsewhere in the states, team usa's world cup team may be over, but with the american network supposedly recording viewing investors viewer. still to come on the show, another strong reading expected from today's jobs report. we ask how you should be poged in the next hour of "worldwide exchange." stay with us. jç)y welcome to "worldwide exchange." i'm julia chatterley. these are your headlines from around the world. jobs thursday is here. a strong reading expected after wall street locks in another record close. fed chair janet yellen holds firm on low rates saying she'll not tackle asset prices through monetary policy. >> monetary policy faces significant limitations as a tool to promote financial stability. strong data out of the peripheral eurozone as the ecb meets on rates. the services sector expanding in spain and italy in june. nicolas sarkozy denies all wrongdoing as he takes the national tv to defend himself against allegations of corruption. and tropical storm arthur has officially been classified as a hurricane. it is forecast to move into north carolina overnight. >> announcer: you're watching "worldwide exchange," bringing you business news from around the globe. if you're just tuning in, thanks for joining us here on "worldwide exchange." for the second hour, a quick check on the u.s. futures right now as the equity markets around 14 points higher for the dow, the s&p relatively unchanged, a point higher and a couple of points on the nasdaq, too. we're talking about new record highs despite being a 0.1 gains for the dow and the s&p. we didn't see those adp numbers allowing the do i to push near that 17k numbers. we did see the u.s. ten-year moving six basis points higher yesterday. let's skip over now and have a look at what's going on as far as the european session is concerned this morning. 0.3% higher for the uk market, the german market, similar story. and italy, too, edging 0.5%. the focus here in europe very much on mario draghi. is he going to lead on euro banks right now and what more can he do about lending rates in europe? let's have a look at asia now and talk about that session, too. expectations there high for what we see as far as payrolls are concerned and morrow draghi. but talk to me about the china services pmi. >> well, the first thing to say from a market investment point of view is that no one is committing themselves to any big trades in either direction, until we get some clarity, as you said, from the payrolls and from the ecb, number one. number two, in the china data, the services sector pmi was pretty robust. if you look at the official numbers, enjoyed his best conditions in 15 months in june. the chinese economy is stabilizing and rebalancing towards more private consumption, away from investments and exports. having said that, there's probably more work to be done by the central bank in terms of fine tuning policy measures that are going to be brought on stream and brought into the system best quarter and the next, as well. keep the economy on an even keel. so all things considered, the greater china markets like this news from the services sector growth. chinese composite closing just a shade below 1860. >> thanks very much, sri. we've just had some flashes across the rise regarding the situation in the u.s. and the weather right now. the nht saying storm arthur now reaching hurricane strength. it is expected to move near the north carolina coast on thursday night, this according to the nhc. the core of arthur is expected to approach the coast in the hurricane warning area tonight. as i say, we'll keep you updated if we see anything else as far as those reports are concerned. now, u.s. hiring is expected to stay strong for a fifth straight month in june. the monthly jobs report is out at 8:30 a.m. eastern. the forecast calls for an increase of 215,000 in the nonfarm payrolls versus 217,000 in may. that would mark the fifth consecutive month of job gains above that 200,000 level. unemployment, meanwhile, expected to hold steady at 6.3% for a third straight month. now joining us, head of investment strategy at brooks mcdonald. it's great to have you on the show. what's your expectation for private payrolls today? >> we had strong indications in the private sector that the jobs number would be strong. however, those numbers aren't always aligned because the numbers we hear from the government will be broader. the concern is that even if you do see strong numbers, which is expected, you have other headwinds that are there. there is a lot of underemployment providing a lot of black in the economy. and there still isn't enough wage growth. that is something that the fed is very much focusing on. >> they're expected to hold steady based on what we got last month. what about the participation point right now? we're seeing a structural shift, we're seeing it focusing on young people and prime age workers whereas you're seeing an increase in participation from the older people. it's a burden for the fed. the authorities have to keep those in benefits. it's obviously there is a longer term structural issue. what the fed has come out and said is they're looking at a broader range of indicators. what's interesting is tying this into what yellen said yesterday was the fact that they are looking much more on the broader economy as opposed to trying to tackle risks in financial markets and banks, etcetera, more indirectly with interest rates. that's going to be their poef. >> but does it make sense for yellen to be talking at macro prudential? if we look at the jobs even at 6.3%, isn't it an argument that rates right now are too low? >> what they're doing is -- and it's interesting because she qualifies her comments by later on saying she does acknowledge that there could be a risk in the credit markets. that is something very much on our radar. you could see -- i mean, not the talk too strongly about this, but credit crisis, you have the situation that is reminiscent of what happened before the credit crisis. it's kind of deja vu in the fact that you have two easy standards for lending to poor quality companies. rates spoke have narrowed substantially. finally, margin requirements are potentially, too low. what this does is it stores up a very big risk if people get worried about rate rise coming in and if they start to rush through the door, there may be be enough liquidity in the jobs markets. what happened in the u.s. markets? the u.s. credit markets have doubled since the financial crisis in terms of their size. who is going so be buyers? >> we talk about this in the high yields market in particular. but to bring it back to the day, margo draghi potentially leading on the euro. which is the stronger force today, do you think? >> the stronger force is more likely what's going on in the u.s. and the reason for that is draghi has come out with so many different policy measures that it's very unlikely that he's going to have any room for more action. so the focus is much more going to be on the u.s. than over in europe. >> you're staying with us. but for now, dow jones forecasting an extra 215 jobs added in june. what we want to know is what your guess with today's jobs number. are you feeling bullish or bearish? get in such with us at worldwide@cnbc.com or tweet us @cnbcwex or direct to me. against granting bnp paribas a critical way to continue operations in several u.s. investment advisory units. reports of cara stein was the only democrat on the commission. the s.e.c. granted bnp's temporary waiver on monday. the same day the bank pleaded guilty to violating u.s. sanctions. the s.e.c. is looking atrophies buyout firms get for securing discount prices such as coffee and computers. "the wall street journal" says it's part of a stepped up probe into private equity fees. the agencies confirm investors who did buy out firms cash to takeovers aren't getting enough information about fees they earn on these stock programs. coming up, a there's on flights. to build something smar. ♪ some come here to build something stronger. others come to build something faster... something safer... something greener. something the whole world can share. people come to boeing to do many different things. but it's always about the very thing we do best. ♪ welcome back to "worldwide exchange." these are your headlines. jobs, jobs, jobs, another strong month of hiring expected in june. analysts predicting a fifth straight month of growth. last month, mario draghi prommed more to come from the european central bank. could today be the day? and tropical storm arthur reaches hurricane strength ahead of the fourth of july holiday. we just mentioned there last month the ecb became the first major central bank in the world to move deposit rates into negative territory. speaking after the announcement, mario draghi said there was more extraordinary policy to come. geoff and annette are in frankfurt. what are we expecting? >> i think you pretty much summed it up there, julia. the door is open to more easing. guys, here's the door. the door is open. i think mr. draghi will keep stressing the point over again. he must be very disappointed with euro/dollar the last two weeks all we've seen is the euro firming back to levels that existed prior to the extraordinary measures that were announced at the last meeting. >> yeah. and one way of doing so, it's good to give us perhaps a little bit more detail on how long the interest rates actually should stay that low or at least at this level or lower levels. that could stay on the u.s./dollar exchange rate. and practice some more information on a qr? >> maybe. i mean, we -- you know, this carrot has been dangled out there about, you know, how we address the cleansing the banks are doing at this point on their balance sheets to meet aqr and the stress tests and then make sure what they're doing doesn't prevent them from lending into the real economy. but in realize, we've spent two years now seeing contraction in lending to the private sector around the eurozone. that hasn't changed. that has to be a worry. that is increasing the disinflationary pressure here. so any detail he can give us at this point really isn't going to help. >> but it's a joke. the banks have to reduce their balance sheets and at the same time they should lend more to actually riskier businesses. and it's in essence impossible. looking at recent lending data, probably we'll hear a growing sense of frustration from mario draghi since lenning is going down and now up. >> not all bad. at least the germans and the french are still in the world cup, julia. i'm sure there will be one or two football-type questions that get fired at him. he can take some comfort away from that, that we're still in the game, whether we're cousins to north america or not. >> i'm sure mario draghi will have a wide smile when he gets that comment, guys. thank you very much. we know mario draghi is concerned about doing too much as far as draghi is concerned. we had yellen warning about the potential of build up risks. what's your take? how much caution should there be coming from investors? >> you're starting to see the rotation. you're seeing growth back to value. cash levels on part followos are near a 2 1/2 year high. you're starting to see it come into markets. what's interesting to note, and this is specifically noted by yellen was she said expectations with volatility are very low. and if you look at the swings in the market, let's talk about the s&p yesterday, the swing in the market was as little as 0.21%. and it's the second smallest swing in markets since 1993. >> the dow was 37 points, wasn't it, the daily range on the dow yesterday. having said that, we still didn't manage to ship above 17k yesterday. do you think we get that when we get the nonfarm payroll numbers, expecting a bigger number even from what we got on the adps yesterday. >> you do see greed over-shadowing. and people are too worried about missing out rather than all these other signs of caution. so over the shorter time, yes, the markets can continue to rally. >> define short-term. >> oh, god. we can't continue to chase this. but to quote one of my favorites, house of cards, frank said the higher up the mountain you go, the more treacherous the path. and i think that sums up markets perfectly at the moment. >> i like it. jenna godfrey at brooks mcdonald. moving on, president obama held a telephone call with the saudi arabian king last night about ongon going tensions in iraq. the two discussed the need for iraq to form a new inclusive government. hdly gamble joins us now. they tried that this week. >> they did try that. and i think you'll see maliki is much more focused on fighting than on politicking. >> but what is interesting is that none of the western players have any interest in a maliki government going forward, obviously. so he's going to have to stick to his guns in terms of trying to secure baghdad, trying to -- some is of these securities situation. but the politicking is going to continue. >> we'll keep you there for two seconds. i want to tackle something else right now. security is being ramped up around the world to direct flights in the united states in spite of warnings about an kraed threat wanting to smuggle bombs into u.s.-bound flights. hadley, the iraq situation, that's a site. we haven't been talking about spillovers into the west. is that what we're looking at here? >> absolutely. and there have been conversations of the last couple of weeks, the uk, for instance, has said that there's no way that they're going to be able to check everyone that's coming back, that's been involved in the fighting in syria. there's just not any way they can do that. obviously, in the u.s. with people holding american and uk passports. we're coming up on the july fourth weekend. even though the tsa and homeland security are saying this is not in any way linked, we're saying this will be longer lines at the forefront of americans and eventually you'll see higher costs. always these security costs are passed on to the consumers. we'll see americans coming to the relation that this is a problem that does impact them. >> this is a problem, particularly against the fourth of july holiday. thanks, hadley, hadley gamble. nos cow has agreed to hold discussions with kiev weekend regarding a cease-fire. after holding the discussions in berlin, germany's foreign minister is hopeful of a more positive outcome. >> translator: i believe that we have succeeded in negotiations that have just ended to reach an agreement on a bundle of measures that, all taken together, can patch of the way to resilient mutual cease-fire. european officials will be able to see louisa talk to the second general rasmussen. that is coming up at 1:50 cet. still to come on this show with the fourth of july celebrating just around the corner, we ask if the sector is always about fun and games or it's bumpy rides. norwegian air is transferring its low cost model to transatlantic flights. speaking earlier on the channel, norwegian air ceo explains how they can afford to keep the fares so low. >> it's on the other aircraft. the airline we have to learn -- within the short-term in europe. >> joining us is chris thompson. are you on target? >> good morning, yes. last year was a record year in visitation. we had 70 million visitors that the international market has spend nearly $181 billion. >> can i ask what specifically you're doing to try and target asian visitors for the country? >> well, you know, travel to the united states is aspirational for many of our asian markets. in a lot of cases like china and india, travel to the united states was something that many haven't done yet and look forward to doing. we're actively involved in both of those markets, feeding back ta dream stage, we have in country representation and consumer campaigns going direct to consumers, promoting all that is the united states, the 50 states, the five territories, the district of columbia. we work with the travel trade to facilitate the travel and to help us tell our story. >> we were talking about the situation in the middle east. some airports are stepping up security from potential spillover of courses. what impact do you think security threats pose for your business? >> well, you know, the one good thing about the fourth of july holiday is that it is a universal travel season for around the world. so lots of travel going on around the world. it is one of those high seasons that all of our partners, both the federal government and otherwise as it relates are welcoming to our visitors from around the world is at a high level. so we feel like the ability to be able to accommodate those travelers coming in is already at a high level and we should be able to handle that. >> 30% of your business is done in the summer months right now. can you ask you if you're doing anything specific for independence day holiday this year? sfwh yeah, in most of our embassies around the world we have independence day celebrations which does focus on our fourth of july. and it gives us a great opportunity on a very big stage to focus on all that is the united states of america. this year we're focussing on culinary, culinary diplomacy, typing experiences fought only to but through and beyond one of our gateways. it's a way for us to talk about the united states as a destination, but the diversity of the united states and what it has to offer as it relates to culinary opportunities. >> chris thompson, ceo at brand usa, great to talk to you. still to come on the show, going private. li lululemon is toying with the idea, all the details. welcome to "worldwide exchange." jobs thursday is here. a strong reading expected as wall street locks in another record close. this as fed chair janet yellen holds firm on low rates saying she'll not tackle rising asset prices through monetary policy. >> monetary policy faces significant limitations as a tool to promote financial stability. >> strong data out of the peripheral, eurozone will give morrow draghi a boost. the services sector expanding in spain and italy in skrun. security on flights to the u.s. ramped up after reports of a credible threat related to al qaeda. and arthur becomes the first hurricane of the 2014 season. the storm is forecast to move towards north carolina tonight ahead of the july 4th holiday. a quick look at the expected open, fresh highs for the s&p and the dow in yesterday's trading session. but the dow trading at a 37-point rate. that listed the u.s. six basis points. on the private payrolls is expected for nonfarm payrolls today. we'll continue to wait. we're watching for mario draghi lean on the strength in the session today. that coming up at 1:30 london time, 8:30 eastern. right now, we're seeing gains across the board for the european markets, higher by around 0.4% to 0.5% across the board. how do you make money in these markets? how do you position yourself? listen to what some experts have been telling us today. >> when the federations interest rates because growth is good, that's okay. when they tighten because inflation is bad, then we get scared and, of course, inflation is really the enemy of stock markets and credit markets. it's not going to be great, but it's okay. >> we had a stronger than expecteded gdp number. i think the market is going to be looking to see whether this number can change that tone. financial conditions in the u.s. have never been -- of the last ten years. so why? why would i expect u.s. rates to explode? u.s. hiring is expected to stay strong for june. forecasts call for an increase of 215,000 in the nonfarm payrolls versus 217,000 back in may. that would mark the fifth consukter month with gains. all week on cnbc, we've been asking our guests for their predictions on the all-important jobs numbers. take a listen. >> when you look at jobs numbers with year over year improvement, that's really, really strong. it's been slow and steady, but i think it's gaining steam. i think the credit expansion is showing that. i think we'll see that reflection in q2 numbers. >> i'm going to go for 255. i'm quite a bit more optimistic. i think the consensus numbers are too low. i think they're too backward looking. it's too much rearview mirror. img they're impacted by the volatility. but i think looking at the survey evidence, business service, but consumer confidence service, they show an acceleration in confidence which i think is something that goes along with increased hiring. i would think just about any number, unless it's a really negative number will be viewed okay and that the future looks a little brighter. >> joining us now from cnbc hq, patrick, what are your predictions? >> net gain of 200,000 jobs. all of those being in the private sector. expect a little bit of an uptick in the unemployment rate due to reentrants of previously discouraged workers. overall, i think the momentum going forward is quite positive. expect about an average of 225,000 net gains per month in the second half. >> and what about some of the devil within did details, like wages and hourly hours worked, as well. >> don't expect much change there at all. a little bift avenue an increase as hours works. wages will remain, as they have been for too long, flat. >> and we saw the jobs lost in the beginning of the recession in '08 and the recovery beginning in 2010. what now would you consider an acceleration? i know you mentioned the 220 or so figure going forward. what could we say as an acceleration as far as the expectations going forward? >> i think the month to month number, as i said before, will be somewhere around 225,000, 230,000 a month. i wouldn't consider that to be a real acceleration. this has been a slow jobs recovery. a slow expansion where merely 0.1% above where we were in the employment in january 2008. to i think give monetary policymakers jobs, we would so his jobs -- well into the next year before they would become concerned. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ these are your headlines. jobs, jobs, jobs, another strong month of hiring expected in june. analysts predicting a fifth straight month of growth. last month's mario draghi promised there was more to come from the european central banks. could today be the day? and tropical storm arthur reaches hurricane strength ahead of the fourth of july holiday. director of research at kieren resnick is still with us. i want to talk to you briefly about the 36-low for the last few months. structurally, we're seeing a shift right now. a focus on unemployment among young people and those considered prime working versus those in the older brackets. is that really more of a problem for yellen as we push forward throughout the year? >> we've seen a sharp decline among those in the labor force ages 25 through 54 years of age. participation is up among those over 55 and those over 65. so when you look at it that way, what we're seeing is those who need at the entry level years of their workforce participation who need employment to gain not only income and skills are not out there looking for work. if we had a participation rate the same as we did back in 2007, the unemployment rate would be 10.9%. so we're masking a whole lot of problems, underlying structural problems in this low labor force participation rate. >> and the risk is that it could end up keeping you on hold for longer because literally, they can't afford to raise rates even if she wanted to for other reasons than the economy. >> i think as we saw in the outtake from her speech before, the chair woman recognizes that there are limits to monetary policy. and the kind of structural problems that have led to the decline in labor force participation are beyond the reach of monetary policy. those are going to require interventions that offer training opportunities, work experience opportunities, and encouragement to those who are so discouraged they're not even looking. >> absolutely. and we look to draghi and yellen to solve things that they shouldn't be focusing on. patrick o'keefe, director, economic research. let's take a look at today's other top stories. lululemon's founder is reportedly talking to private equity firms to gauge their interest in a possible buyout. "the wall street journal" says it could be difficult given the retailer's $6 million market cap. earlier this month, she voted against the company's new chairman. american apparel found what dov charney gave him control to a hedge fund. he struck a deal with standard general to try to claw his way back into the company. charney bought the fund shares giving him a 43% stake. but he can't make any move unless standard general signs off of it. google has begun to remove links with the right to be forgotten ruling made earlier this year to kick in. and one of those requests has been made to take down negative press about the former merrill lynch boss stan o'neal. in a blog post, bbc economics correspondent robert pestin revealed he received a notification from google about an article he wrote in 2007. the post in question names only stan o'neal and talks about the down turn during the prices. now, tropical cyclone arthur is officially the first hurricane of the season. alex wallace from the weather channel joins us now to give us all the details. alex. good morning. still watching it here on the southeast coast of the u.s. there it is. the advisory coming in at 5:00 eastern time. 75-mile-per-hour sustained winds and moving to the north. that mo into the north continuing right now at about 9 miles per hour. we should keep that going as we work our way through the day before it eventually works its way towards the north. now, look at the radar picture. you can clearly see this thing sharing and spinning here just to the southeast of charleston, south carolina, already starting to see some of those outer rain bands moving in with those rain bands. some gusty winds and some downpours. checking out some of the sustained winds out there right along the coast, anywhere from 5 to 15 miles per hour. but some of these buoys that are out over the open waters, getting up around it, 20 and close to 30 miles per hour right now. tropical storm and hurricane warnings are up along the coast of the carolinas and southeastern virginia, as well. so tropical storm or hurricane conditions are expected in those spots. the question is whether is it going to be headed? it should continue to move out to the north and turn to the north and east. late tonight, could be looking at landfall here in eastern carolina. by early friday, the outer banks will be affected. continuing to work out towards the open waters of the atlantic. as we head into the weekend, still dealing with parts of it as we work out way to nova scotia. so essential ways to track this. weather aside, americans will be celebrating the 238th birthday of their country tomorrow. how much can they expect to fork out for all those activities? morgan brennen is at cnbc hq with all the details. morgan. >> hi, julia. many americans have a three-day weekend and they're getting more incentive to hit the road. 32 million people will take a vacation during the holiday. a majority of them, about 70%. so the price of gas won't impact their july fourth spending plans. that's sg is interesting because prices at the pump have recently spiked, making this july 4th the most expensive for drivers since 2008. aaa says the average price nationwide is $3.67 a gallon. that's up about 19 cents from a year ago and it's linked to the recent unrest in iraq, which has sent crude prices higher over the last month. the survey says about 105 million people plan to attend fireworks shows this year. that's down slightly from last year. we'll see what hurricane arthur does to that. the american pyro technichs association says numbers this year could fluctuate. several parts of the u.s. are experiencing severe drought conditions. that's forcing many towns and cities to ban sales of fireworks to the public due to the fire risks. what would the fourth of july be without a display of american pride waving at the star-spangled banner? the u.s. isn't the only country with a stake in the celebrations. the census bureau says the u.s. spent $4 million on imports of american nags last year. that's compared to just $781,000 of exports. china made 97% of them. food is a key part of the holiday. the prosper su survey says 153 consumers will celebrate by chowing down this year. the average household will fork over about $68 on burgers, snacks and other food. that's even with a big spike in beef price necessary recent months. now, tate kelly has been down on the farm looking at what's behind this price shock. >> i'm here in southeastern minnesota where cattle farms like this are witnessing the largest -- in decades. due to issues with drought and high costs for corn and other cattle feed, a usda report in january showed at 82 million, the number of cattle and cavs in inventory was the lowest since 1951. that's part of the reason why cattle futures have rallied about 28% this year making them the third best performing commodity after coffee and hogs. and most price res hitting the consumer, too. restaurants have tried a variety of work arounds and they're now looking at the possibility of raising prices on the menu. >> at some point, i think they get to the point and say, hey, i've got to do something, i've got to change my pricing structure and i think that that will be the case for booefr long-term because this isn't a problem like we talked about earlier that goes away quickly. it's something that takes two years to turn around if we can keep the pasture land growing, it's going to take that two-year period to get us going. >> the price bonanza means cattle farmers are holding back on producing meat, preferring to hold on to heavier y heiffers produce calves. that and other factors means in the third quarter, the tight supplies could continue. if demand hasn't changed, we could see even higher prices than we have now. we have breaking news on the latest. the u.n. human rights chief saying the demolition of palestinian homes is a human rights violation. he's condemning the palestinian rocket attacks on israel. but he condemns the israeli retaliation, israel retaliating with strikes on the gaza strip last night. we'll keep you updated if any other comments are made on that note. meanwhile, security is being ramped up around the world with direct flights to the united states. there are threats of al qaeda wanting to smuggle explosives on to u.s.-bound flights. we're going to take a quick break. still to come, a tight trading range dominates wednesday's session ahead of a short trading day today. we'll find out how you should be positioned, right after the break. jç)y u.s. futures making limited gains as far as the dow and the s&p were concerned in trading yesterday. but they did manage to make fresh highs trading below that 17k level on the dow. right now, futures indicating higher by 2 30i7b9s for the s&p 500. the dow jones just shy of 21 points higher and the nasdaq 4 points higher. payrolls, of course, today and mario draghi to speak later on in the session. joining us now is ben lichtenstein. ben, thanks for joining us. the adp numbers yesterday didn't manage to propel the dow to 17k yesterday. can payrolls do it for us today? >> well, we sure hope so. keep in mind, that's just a psychological level. everybody likes that number because it's nice and round. but as far as technical levels, it's really just another number. but again, that's what everybody's sights are set on right now at this point. what we would like to see is some follow through associated with that. also, we would like to see some participation from the russell. the russell has been missing out on this broader based rally, if you will. it was the nasdaq and the russell. now it's just the russell as the nasdaq played catchup, if you will, and resolved that divergence to the upside. we're waiting for the russell to see further strength to the upside. but for the most part, the trend is very much intact headed into this holiday session. keep in mind, early close today. it's been really low volatility here, really low volume. i expect that trend to continue. the 37 point gain on the dow, is it best for people just to stay out of the way when we get the numbers later and not risk getting chopped around? >> that depends on your own personal trading style, if you will. i think the broader based position has been this buy and hold right now. i think any real sell side activity would be met by buy the dippers and for the most part on this type of day, i wouldn't give any real weight or credit to anything one way or the other for the most part. it's kind of a coin toss, if you will, and we're looking for continuation over the next couple of weeks. if it's to the upside, we look for those areas of value to be established to the upside, continuation of the vertical trend. if to the downside, we would be checking out a couple of key areas of support. but everything up above 1900 right now in my opinion in the s&p is everything above 1900 is bullish and very positive. >> and the dollar here? >> oh, good question. the dollar has been sideways for the most part. we saw it dip below the 80 even level a couple times over the last few weeks. really the dollar today will be the ecb. no question about that. the euro has been chop trade around this 1.37 level. all eyes on the dollar. >> ben, thank you so much for your thoughts. >> thank you. on a note for europeans, tune into european closing bell later for exclusive interviews with sunil gulati, the man credited with making soccer popular in the united states. with that, this is "worldwide exchange" and i'm july ya chatterley. thanks for watching "worldwide exchange." have a great day. good morning. and welcome to "squawk box." fireworks from the labor department a day early. what that means. mac is not here. will nonfarm payrolls light up the markets? it will be a real dud. president obama calling for more financial reforms to stop banks from taking on more risks. and raining on the holiday parade, arthur reaches hurricane strength and is headed for the coast of north carolina by tonight. it's thursday, july 3rd, 2014, and "squawk box" begins right now. good morning, everybody. welcome to "squawk box" here on cnbc. you're right, joe. mac is not here. he's on vacation today. he doesn't have to commute with all the traffic today. i'm becky quick along with joe kernen and andrew ross sorkin. don't adjust your calendars today. it is jobs thursday today. tomorrow's july 4th holiday moves that june unemployment report up to 8:30 eastern time today. the polled forecasters say the economy probably added about 215,000 jobs last month. if that's the case, that would mark the fifth consecutive month of job gains of at least 200,000. the unemployment rate is seen holding steady at 6.3%. the average hourly earnings are expected to have increased by 0.2%. we have a lot on the line for the markets today. in the lead up to the payroll report, dow and s&p both closed at record highs again yesterday. there's only a half day of trading today ahead of the holiday. the stock market will close at 1:00 p.m. eastern today. if you take a look at those futures, you'll see at this point at least we see some green
tonight's pbs newshour. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> i've been around long enough to recognize the people who are out there owning it. the ones getting involved, staying engaged. they are not afraid to question the path they're on. because the one question they never want to ask is, "how did i end up here?" i started schwab with those people. people who want to take ownership of their investments, like they do in every other aspect of their lives. >> supported by the john d. and catherine t. macarthur foundation. committed to building a more just, verdant and peaceful world. more information at macfound.org >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions and... >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> ifill: secretary of state john kerry returned to afghanistan today, in an urgent bid to end the deadlock over the presidential election. in kabul, he pressed the two candidates, abdullah abdullah and ashraf ghani, to accept results from an ongoing audit of votes from the june runoff. the u.s. wants a national unity government formed by next month. all u.s. combat forces are due to leave afghanistan by year's end. >> woodruff: meanwhile, the body of u.s. army major general harold greene arrived back in the u.s. he was killed this week by an afghan soldier outside kabul. troops carried the flag-draped metal case off a c-17 cargo plane at dover air force base in delaware. the general's family and officials, including army chief of staff, general ray ordierno, were on hand. >> ifill: this was the final day of a 72-hour truce between israel and hamas with negotiations continuing in egypt for a longer cease-fire. in gaza, several thousand palestinians marched in support of hamas. a spokesman for the militants insisted there can be no peace until the blockade of gaza is lifted. >> ( translated ): the talks in cairo are going on and we are still waiting to hear the answers. we have fair and legal demands and the israeli occupation has no choice except to respond to our demands. there will be no cease-fire and the enemy will not live in security while palestinians aren't living in real security. >> ifill: in turn, israeli officials have said hamas must disarm first before the blockade can end. >> woodruff: in cambodia, two of the last leaders of the khmer rouge reign of terror were convicted today of crimes against humanity. the fanatical communist movement killed nearly two million people in the late 1970's. a quarter of the population. 83-year old khieu samphan and 88-year-old nuon chea remained stoic today as the verdict was read. they were sentenced to life in prison by a u.n.-backed tribunal. >> ( translated ): this verdict cannot turn back time or the lives of those who died or were killed under the sun's heat, overworked, starved. this verdict will also not reunite the families who have been separated due to their however, this verdict can provide some justice and restore the respect of victims. >> woodruff: the khmer rouge's supreme leader, pol pot, was never tried, and died in 1998. >> ifill: the russian government has granted permission to edward snowden to remain in russia for three more years. his one-year asylum expired august first. snowden faces espionage charges in the u.s. for leaking extensive records on surveillance by the national security agency. >> woodruff: back in this country, a jury in detroit convicted a white homeowner today of killing an unarmed black teenager on his front porch, last november. theodore wafer fired a shotgun at renisha mcbride, after she knocked at his door, early in the morning. he said he thought it was a break-in. prosecutors said mcbride was drunk and had wrecked her car and was looking for help. the case sparked comparisons to the trayvon martin killing in florida. >> ifill: hawaii is bracing for hurricane iselles arrival tonight, the first direct hit on the state in more than 20 years. the storm could arrive with winds of 85 miles an hour and heavy rain, but governor neil abercrombie counseled residents and tourists today not to panic. >> we all have to have confidence in one another. and i want to assure the public that from the point of view of those that you have appointed, who have the jurisdiction, who have the responsibility, we're ready. and if we all work together we're going to come through this in very fine fashion. >> ifill: a second hurricane is also headed toward hawaii, but is still several days away. and if that weren't enough, a moderate earthquake jolted the area today. there were no reports of damage. >> woodruff: president obama has signed a bill to help veterans who've endured long waits for health care. the ceremony today, at fort belvoir, virginia, involved a $16 billion measure. it will pay for hiring thousands more v.a. doctors and nurses, and for vets to see private doctors in some cases. the new law also makes it easier to fire senior v.a. officials for poor performance. >> ifill: the top conferences in college sports moved a big step closer to making their own rules on everything from scholarships to recruiting. the n.c.a.a. governing board voted to let the five richest conferences make unilateral changes in some longstanding rules. the new system could take effect in january unless other schools combine to vote down the changes. >> woodruff: on wall street today, the dow jones industrial average lost 75 points to close at 16,368; the nasdaq fell 20 points to close below 4,335; and the s&p 500 slipped ten to finish at 1,909. >> ifill: also ahead on the newshour, the obama administration considers military options to support refugees fleeing islamic militants in iraq. russia bans western food imports for one year. reevaluating crime and punishment in america's jails and prisons. and the legacy of watergate, 40 years after president richard nixon resigned. >> woodruff: as the humanitarian situation grows dimmer by the hour for some in northern iraq, the white house is now considering taking military action against sunni extremists inside the country. hari sreenivasan reports. >> any sort of military action that would be taken in iraq would be very limited in scope. >> reporter: that was the official word at the white house, amid reports that president obama is considering air strikes against the islamic state group. the sunni extremists have renewed their surge across northern iraq. capturing more villages and seizing the country's largest dam today. their advance has sent thousands of christians and yazidis fleeing in the face of ultimatums to convert to islam, pay heavy fines or face death. the yazidis, who adhere to their own ancient religion, left their town of sinjar, and many have been trapped in nearby mountains without food. white house spokesman josh earnest calls the situation a catastrophe. >> the humanitarian situation is deeply disturbing there, and it's one that we are following closely. that said, it's important for everyone to understand and the president's made this clear that there are no american military solutions to the problems in iraq. we can't solve these problems for them. >> reporter: meanwhile, the u.n. has begun sheltering hundreds of yazidis, and others have streamed across the turkish border. but at least 40 children have already died from dehydration. >> ( translated ): what we want is to just rescue these people from the danger zone. we don't want anything else. we don't want money, we don't want cars, we don't want donations, we don't want food, we don't want anything. if they don't get water and food to those trapped or get them out, it will be a disaster. >> reporter: for more on what the white house is considering on iraq i'm joined by karen deyoung who is reporting on the story for the "washington post." >> i'm hearing that that's not true. i think that the pentagon and the central command that will be running this operation if and when it's approved is still waiting for the president to sign off on any activity at all either humanitarian or any air strikes. >> sreenivasan: we also had heard the administration say today that any military action would o only be if it was in lie with core american objectives. what is that rationale now? >> well, eng that they would say that humanitarian assistance and preventing the actual fall of iraq or further gains by the islamists certainly toward baghdad would not be in american interest so that would be a pretty broadly-defined definition of american interests. i think that these encroachment into kurdish territory have sort of changed the equation very quickly, literally overnight for the united states. they were prepared to allow the situation to stand as it has been for the past couple of weeks while the iraqi government tried to form a new administration that can reach out to minorities there, but having the islamist forces move into kurdistan, which has been relatively peaceful throughout this crisis, i think has changed the situation considerably. >> sreenivasan: but was there a tipple point event that they describe considering that the is islamic state group has been on a fairly aggressive march for the last month? >> i think they were fairly confident the kurdish military forces could hold the line in kurdistan and they also didn't think the islamist forces had indicated they were interested at this point in moving into kurdistan, but the fact that literally tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of iraqis from places that have already been taken over by the militants have poured into kurdistan, and the fact that, all of a sudden this week, the islamists have actually started attacking kurdish towns and cities i think, again, has made them sit up and say, whoa, this -- you know, this cannot stand. again. yo, you have to remember thatins one of the two american fusion centers, the communication centers that the u.s. forces that president obama has sent there to assist the iraqis is located, the other one is in baghdad. islamist forces are now about 40 miles away from there. >> sreenivasan: what's the debate in the white house now? what's being considered? >> i don't know that there is a strong debate at this point. i think the question is certainly whether or not air strikes could help or harm the situation and if this is the moment that this action that's been so strongly resisted by the administration up until now can actually make a difference without making the situation worse. i think the decision has pretty much been made on the humanitarian aid drops which is a separate operation. there was some effort today to open a corridor to evacuate these people who, as you described, are on the mountain top. as far as i know, that has not worked because the islamists have been shelling that evacuation and these people are stuck there with no food, water and no shelter. >> sreenivasan: would this humanitarian aid be limited to this specific zone? >> that's not clear to me, although that would certainly be the initial place. you know, the iraqi government has tried to develop some assistance to these people. didn't work out too well. they had crates of water which cracked apart when they hit the ground. you know, the united states has a lot of experience doing this and experience in this particular area doing it. you remember in 1991 there were similar air drops by u.s. forces. this was when the rest of iraq was controlled by saddam hussein. but at that time united states send groups into kurdistan to wall off the area from saddam hussein's forces. i don't think that's been contemplated now. but i think the humanitarian assistance is something that they'll likely do and do fairly soon and it would start in this area. >> sreenivasan: karen deyoung of "the washington post," thank you so much. >> you're welcome. >> ifill: russia formally banned imports of agricultural products from the u.s. and europe today. even as nato sounded new warnings about moscow's military moves. chief foreign affairs correspondent margaret warner begins our coverage. >> reporter: foreign foods that have lined the shelves of russia's grocery stores will be disappearing. for a year, effective immediately, imports of fruit, vegetables, meat, fish, poultry and dairy are banned from the u.s., european union, australia, canada and norway. all those countries have imposed sanctions penalizing russia, for backing rebels in eastern ukraine. russian prime minister dmitry medvedev said today that moscow is answering in kind. >> ( translated ): all the measures have a solely retaliatory character. we didn't want such a development of events. we sincerely hope that our partners economic pragmatism will prevail over petty political reasons, and they will think, and not try to frighten and limit russia. >> reporter: notwithstanding the kremlin's defiance, president obama argues russia is hurting. he spoke at a washington news conference last night. >> sanctions are working as intended in putting enormous pressure and strain on the russian economy. the economy has ground to a halt. somewhere between $100 billion and $200 billion of capital flight has taken place. >> reporter: what's more, u.s. officials said today, russia is, in effect, imposing sanctions on its own people, by banning the main sources of imports that account for one-quarter of food consumption in russia and a much higher percentage in the major cities. today, a top u.s. treasury official left open the possibility of more u.s. sanctions if russia does not re- think its actions toward ukraine. but there's little sign of that. instead, nato now estimates 20,000 russian troops have massed near the border and says they could be getting ready to invade under the guise of a humanitarian mission. just this week, in fact, russia called a session of the u.n. security council to discuss the humanitarian situation in ukraine. nato secretary general anders fogh rasmussen issued a new warning today, as he met with ukrainian leaders in kiev. >> i call on russia to step back from the brink, step back from the border. do not use peacekeeping as an excuse for war-making. >> reporter: poland's prime minister issued a similar warning yesterday, saying the threat of direct russian intervention is certainly greater than it was a few days ago. meanwhile, inside ukraine, government forces have stepped up pressure on the rebels, with intensive new shelling in their stronghold city of donetsk. amid the fighting, a eastern ukrainian native replaced the russian national, aleksander borodai, as leader of the separatists there. >> ifill: and margaret joins me now. what was the official response of the administration to this new sanction? >> interestingly, they didn't seem terribly phased by this. they expected some retaliatory action. the u.s. on an economic level, they did not consider this particularly damaging to u.s. companies. they do take it as a sign that putin is not backing down, however, politically, but mostly officials i talked to said they thought it was really misguided and self-defeated and they may be whistling at the graveyard as we say, but one of the things that russian citizens got at the end of the cold war and the collapse of the soviet union was the freedom and the travel and having western domestic goods and he could have cranky constituency. >> ifill: how much do our goods there constitute our trade? >> not much. looking the figure up -- first of all, u.s.-russia trade last year was only, like, $38 billion total, only $11 billion of experts which only $1.2 billion of that is food. the biggest item is poultry and they're called bush legs named for george h.w. bush who negotiated a deal with gorbachev in the '90seto in the form of aid to give them the chicken legs which apparently american consumers don't like as well as they like chicken breasts now and it's grown into this multi-million-dollar business, but actually reading from the quote from the georgia poultry export association, they said, well, we got so tired of the russians jerking us around, it used to be 40% of our poultry exports went to russia, it's only 7% last year. his point was u.s. exporters have diversified so it's not a huge hit. >> ifill: all along in the sanction debate there has been question about the difference in the u.s. and europe. europe watched this today and did they think, oh, no, we're next? >> they put out a statement that it was $15 billion of exports last year into russia. i talked to a senior official who said, however, even in the last couple of years, the percentage of our trade with russia has been going down in part because russia economically has been hurting. so german exports were down 5%, and then 10%, and they are mostly things like autos that aren't affected by this. but other european countries who are heavily dependent on agriculture exports, it will hurt. >> ifill: somine countries were slow to get on the sanctions bandwagon. buzz this shake them at all? >> that's why i talked particularly to the germans because merkel was seemingly reluctant and was the one who finally brought people along. the downing of the airliner, i think i said the last time we discussed this, was really a game changer in the minds of the europeans, the downing of the airliner and the way the bodies were treated. u.s. officials said the same thing that they have gotten no indication of weakening e.u. resolve. >> ifill: we saw today that they decided to extend edward snowden's stay for three years and digs along the way. is this another one? >> the sanctions, bans and snowden. i asked a u.s. official if the snowden matter was related. russia signed a memorandum with iran to buy crude, which is another tweak. president obama and president putin talked by phone last friday and agreed sanctions were counterproductive and need add political solution but there is no sign of backchannel negotiations on either side, i'm told. >> ifill: we're also watching russian troops along the border of ukraine. they're still there, don't seem like they're going anywhere. is it more tense? >> it is, even more so along the border. ukrainian officials who i talked to today who always believed putin may well invade said, look, even the troop levels don't matter as they built the infrastructure, so they have military hospitals, the depots and the weapons, he said they could move in 10,000, 20,000 more troops virtually overnight, certainly within a matter of days. this official also was very concerned that ukrainian forces are not making the gains we're all reading they are. he said, a week ago we were still picking one, two, or three towns a day. by now there's a stalemate and the separatists are kind of localized in countries and luhansk. the question is how does ukraine actually take the cities and are afraid they will set up an israel-gaza scenario as one described to me where it looks like ukrainians are killing civilians. >> ifill: what about settlement? >> it's looking weak. uu.s. officials say in public or private they get the same kind of reaction from the russian, he said it's like cold war days. and ukrainian officials say there are splits in the ukrainian government which are also getting in the way of this. >> ifill: margaret warner, thank you very much. >> my pleasure, gwen. >> woodruff: now, a look at how we punish people in the united states, and how that might be changing. jeffrey brown has that story. >> reporter: across the u.s., as inmate populations keep growing. calls to address prison crowding, conditions and other problems continue to be heard. just this week, the justice department issued a scathing report on abuse of teenage inmates at new york's riker's island. it spoke of "a culture of violence" that encouraged beatings and excessive use of solitary confinement. in california, state officials are under federal court orders aimed at reducing severe overcrowding of prisons. and u.s. attorney general eric holder is pushing to shorten prison terms for many non- violent offenders. on the newshour recently, he cited a fundamental unfairness in drug sentencing. >> if you are basing a sentence on something other than the conduct of the person who was involved, and the person's record, if you're looking, for instance, at factors of what educational level the person has received, what neighborhood the person comes from... >> ifill: to be clear, some states are doing that already. >> ...they are, right. and using that as a predictor, though, of how likely this person, this individual, is going to be a recidivist. i'm not at all certain i'm comfortable with that. >> reporter: the concerns have sparked bi-partisan efforts. in the senate, republican rand paul of kentucky and democratic senator corey booker of new jersey are focused on several issues, including drugs and racial disparities in prison. >> there are still some naysayers, but i think the public at large is saying, well, you know, we're not so sure drugs are right for people, but we are thinking that maybe we should rehabilitate people, that people, particularly kids, deserve a second chance. when they make mistakes, let's get them back into society and working, which makes them less likely to go back into drugs. >> reporter: still it's unclear if or when congress might take action. so is the ground shifting on criminal justice issues? we look across the spectrum at problems and solutions with: bryan stevenson, a longtime public interest lawyer, and founder the equal justice initiative, an alabama-based non-profit focused on social justice and human rights. pat nolan is the former republican leader of the california state assembly. he's now the director of the center for criminal justice reform at the american conservative union foundation. and bill mccollum is the former attorney general of florida, now a lawyer in private practice. bryan stevenson, as someone working with inmates and looking at the criminal justice system, how would you define the problem that most needs addressing? well, i think it's overincarceration. we have the highest rate of incarceration in the world. prison population has grown from 300,000 in the '70s to 2.4 million today and we have been locked into what i call the politics of fear and anger and not made good decisions about criminal justice, sentencing, prisons, and i think getting out of that is the real challenge. >> brown: pat nolan, you're coming from a conservative perspective. how do you identify the problem? i think we've over-incarcerated. we have people who are very dangerous and need to be separated from the population, but you can overuse a thing and i think we've incarcerated people we're not afraid of, just mad at. >> brown: you mean the wrong people are in jail? >> they need sanction bus they don't need to be locked up, they don't pose a physical threat to the public. >> brown: bill mccollum, what doesn't work and what do you want to keep? >> there are problems with overcrowding and problems with sentences that are too mandatory. but the biggest problem is the recidivism rate. we return a lot to have the folks to prison again and again. they're conflicted as a felony, and then when they go back out on the streets, we don't provide them with a job they can keep. so we need to address all the problems, not just overcrowding or sentencing, it's a whole combination in the prison system. >> brown: try to make it more concrete. let me start with you bryan stevenson. give us an example of a reform or something happening around the country tha that you would e to see to address some of the problems you see. >> to pick up on what mr. bill mccollum said, i agree with that. most people sent to prison are from low-level, nonviolent offenses and then most we sent back because we don't have services. we want to eliminate sending people back to prison for technical violations of probation or parole and that's the kind of reform that has really reduced overcrowding in some places. i think ending some of these mandatory sentences for drug crimes and low-level non-violent crimes can have a huge impact. in shifting the funding, we went from $6 billion in prison spending in eight 1980 to $80 bn a today and if we spend more of that money on support and rehabilitation, we can keep people out of prison for a long time. >> brown: want to pick up on that? >> i agree with bryan stevenson and bill mccollum. there are 29 million people in prison for drugs. if people aren't prepared to be productive when they get out, to hold a job and support themselves and their family, we're risking more problems. the hope program hawaii started, the folks that right before the judge started as a federal prosecutor, he said we take rules seriously and when you break them, we'll hold you accountable. we'll not send you to written six years. 48 hours, you can think over what you've done and come back and you have a chance to get back in drug treatment, stay clean. it resulted in 50% lower crime rate among those going through his court, 68% fewer missed appointments with the probation officer and i think 66% fewer dirty drug tests. so it's saving money, they aren't having to take up beds in prison but it's holding them accountable. we need to follow these guys and make sure they're staying on the straight and narrow and not doing something bad again. >> brown: bill mccollum, do you have an example you want to give us that addresses the problem you mentioned? >> i served o as the attorney general on the clemency board in florida and i saw our cases come up regularly and despite the fact i agree if you have a simple possession you shouldn't be incarcerated for an extended period of time. most cases were not simple possession of drugs, they were other crimes, not always violent. but if you have a large enough quantity and dealing in drugs you caught to have a mandatory minimum sentence in my opinion. maybe these sentences sometimes are too long but we need to deal and i think it's is a serious problem where the criminals are going to be there even after we address the overcrowding for the minor possession issue and change some of the laws maybe on diverting a few people but cause, the majority i think of the states are not there for the crimes that we're talking about, they're for more serious matters and we need to address the rehab and what we do twheez prisoners, these return prisoners, repeat offenders. >> brown: just listening, mr. mccolumn, are you worried the idea of reform can do too far? >> yes, i am. i'm worried when i was on the committee in congress and chaired it for a while i know judges oppose any idea of sentencing guidelines that kept their hands tied especially minimum mandatory sentences and we have gone too far with minimum mandatories but there's a place for that, there's a place for jeb bush's 10, 20, life when you have repeat offenders and they commit certain types of fennelies again and again. so i'm worried the move the to release prisoners and reduce sentences to minimum mandatories will take it opposite direction and go too far. >> brown: bryan stevenson, response? >> i'm not so worried about that. we had 300,000 people in prison in the early 1970s. the violent crime in most places is about where i have to in the '60s when we had a dramatically smaller prison population. i agree we have to focus on people who are threats to public safety, we have to get them out of society and protect the pub public, but we have tens of thousands who are not in that category. if we treat drug dependency as a health problem, i think we can provide better services, keep people out of jails or prisons and not in any way undermine public safety. we've got a lot of space to operate, unfortunately, to reduce our prison population without increas increasing threo public safety. >> where is this as a political matter? the question i asked at the top, has the ground shifted? >> yeah, it's been very interesting. in the last several years, many conservative leaders across the country are working to implement policies to get the most public safety per dollar. we have been stingy with other parts of government and have quite frankly turned a blind eye to corrections and instead saying are we getting enough public safety? so texas led the way by changing the laws so they didn't incarcerate those at the low level of the spectrum, they lowered the amount spent but just didn't put it back in the budget, they put it in the program like bill mccollum talked about, job training, drug treatment, mental health care. sith saved the money and the lives of the low-level offenders and put it into things or into rehabilitation. the key thing is they've saved over $3 billion and the crime rate is the lowest it's been since 1968. >> brown: and bill mccollum, just in our last minute here, do you see the political ground shifting and where is the public in all of this? >> well, i think the public sees the crime rate down now and it's swinging more towards looseness and letting more people out and doing more diversion and drug treatment. that's not all bad. i'm worried they not go too far. punishment is part of the system we have of deterrence. that's how you deter crime. so even if you don't have a violent crime, there are crimes out there that need to get certainty in the punishment and we need to have them in prison. i just think we have to be careful when we talk about them not to put too many in that category. small drug offenders, possession, yes, that could be diverted, major crimes in theft and criminal behavior and other cases major drug traffickers, no. >> brown: big subject to be continued. bryan stevenson, pat nolan, bill mccollum, thank you all very much. >> thank you. >> woodruff: tomorrow marks the 40th anniversary of the end of richard nixon's presidency, an occasion to look back at a man, and a moment, that changed the country. >> therefore, i shall resign the presidency effective at noon tomorrow. >> woodruff: on the evening of august 8th 1974 from the oval office president richard nixon announced his resignation. this after a two-year-long saga that became known as the watergate scandal. on june 17th 1972, five men who had been hired by the committee to re-elect the president were arrested trying to bug the offices of the democratic national committee in the watergate complex. it was one part of a large clandestine effort to ensure nixon's re-election. that fall he won by a landslide, beating senator george mcgovern by nearly 18 million votes. but investigations into the watergate break-in continued eventually tying the white house to the burglary. in february 1973, a senate committee began to look into the president's connection to the watergate break-in and the subsequent cover-up. that may, the special panel began hearings which lasted nine months. some members of president nixon's own administration testified against him, including former white house counsel john dean who said there had been a coverup, one he had discussed with the president. >> i began by telling the president that there was a cancer growing on the presidency and if the cancer was not removed, the president himself would be killed by it. >> woodruff: and former white house aide, alexander butterfield, confirmed the existence of audio tapes on which the president had recorded all telephone calls and conversations in the oval office since 1971. >> were you aware of any devices installed in the executive office building office of the president?" >> yes sir. >> woodruff: after the hearings, democrats, commentators and even members of his own party called for the president to resign. but he resisted, with comments like this at a news conference in march of '74. >> it perhaps would be an act of courage to resign. i should also point out, however, that while it might be an act of courage to run away from a job that you were elected to do, it also takes courage to stand and fight for what you believe is right, and that is what i intend to do. >> woodruff: the president also refused to turn over the oval office tapes, until on july 24th, the supreme court ordered their release. three days later, the house judiciary committee voted along bipartisan lines to approve articles of impeachment, charging the president with obstruction of justice and abuse of power. he continued to proclaim his innocence, until a group of republican congressional leaders told him he could not survive votes in either house, at which time, he finally decided to step down: >> sometimes i have succeeded and sometimes i have failed. >> woodruff: the next day- richard nixon departed the white house, becoming the only american president to resign the office. and we take this moment to look back at someone who had a profound effect on our nation. joining us for that is: beverly gage, professor of 20th century american history at yale university. presidential historian timothy naftali, former director of the richard nixon presidential library and museum. now head of the taminent library and robert f. wagner archives at new york university. pat buchanan, who served as a senior advisor in the nixon white house, and author of the book "the greatest comeback: how richard nixon rose from defeat to create the new majority." and luke nichter, co-author, with douglas brinkley, of the "the nixon tapes," a compilation of key conversations recorded by the president's secret white house taping system. and we welcome you all to the "newshour". pat buchanan as someone who knew richard nixon very well, why do you think it's important that we look back at him and his presidency? >> well, certainly, when you mention the watergate scandal, it was the biggest scandal in the american political history that brought down his presidency. bill clinton was impeached but he survived that. nixon's presidency is extraordinary because when you look at his first term and second term, i think you would find him most consequential of presidents. arms control of the soviet union, ended the draft, desegregated the south, had enacted 18-year-old vote, e.p.a., osha, the cancer institute. so he was an enormously consequential president and it's my and others' view that he stood down and i think in his second term he would have been a near greatest +*79 but i think his second term was a failure. >> pat buchanan raises the point. we're still trying to digest this 40 years later. >> ten years ago, i started working on the tapes and i know it now that when you add all the watergate and abuse of government power we call it material on tapes, it's only about 5 to 7% of the total tapes, yet these 5 to 7% have created almost 100% of our impression of the man and his presidency. >> woodruff: but when you look at this, there's still a fascination with richard nixon. why is that? >> we still have 700 to 800 hours of tapes that have not been released so we're already drowning in tapes and we still have a lot more to learn. i teach 18 to 20-year-olds who, for them, richard nixon is an ancient as the american civil war. they don't even have a great living memory of 9/11. they want to learn something other than watergate. >> woodruff: beverly gage, you talked to us about he was a part of a series of things that happened in this country in the late '60s and '70s. expand on that. >> you have to see watergate as a series of crises in the american government and watergate is one of the most dramatic of them but it comes in the context of a huge struggle in vietnam, over seek riover vietnam, over the ways the intelligence establishment had been treating anti-war protesters at home, it comes in the midst of real turmoil, certainly of civil rights in the united states, a breakdown in some ways of democracy at the democratic national convention and, so, watergate became of sort of a place where all of these contests came together and where i think played out in watergate. in addition to playing out, to produce richard nixon himself. >> woodruff: timothy naftali, is that one reason we remain so fascinated by him? >> we remain fascinate by him because on the one hand he was brilliant. he was also a political icon in this country for 50 years and, at the same time, he remains the only president to resign. those two years from the moment that the break-in occurred at the watergate until the time he resigned, richard nixon fought with the truth and, ultimately, the american people and all three branches of government learned he had been lying all along. by overstepping his bounds, richard nixon tested our constitutional structure. what happened 40 years ago this week was that the u.s. constitutional structure showed that it could last and was flexible enough to deal with the president who had exceeded his constitutional bounds. as beverly intimated, this really was the high point of the imperial presidency. from this point on, congress and the supreme court would be taking measurers, putting them in place to reduce to some extent executive authority. richard nixon is shakespearean because he was so full of power, so full of darkness, so full of ambition that he tested our constitutional structure and reshaped it in a way that i'm sure he regretted, but in a way that's been helpful to all americans. >> woodruff: shakespearean, pat buchanan? >> they're taking wiretaps and things and all that was cord up. the question is excellent. why is there such a fascination? richard nixon was a national figure in 1947. i don't know what grade i was in. he was in the whole mccarthy truman era. he loses to j.f.k., loses in california, says goodbye i'm out of politics, manages the greatest comeback in american political history. because of the frankly indecisiveness in watergate not to step up and say our guys did it, i didn't know about it. the prime minister said he's got to be a good butcher and he was not a good butcher. >> woodruff: pat, you've reduced watergate just to a break-in and the coverup to the break-in. watergate turned out to be abused of power well documented by the case. only 202 hours but those are startling and dramatic and very troubling 202 hours. the president applied to the domestic realm the kinds of activities that we associate with foreign covert action. he tinted mind doing whatever -- he didn't mind doing whatever was necessary to hurt his political enemy. >> "washington post" hero, mark felt in charge of jobs for hoover, a corrupt phish agent, stealing secrets out of the grand jury, turning them over to reporters the fruits of his crimes to bring down a president. this was a tougher ray. i was offered the headship of the plumbers and i went over and looked at these cowboys and said i don't think i want to do this job, but some stupid idiot went into ginsburg's psychiatry office for what purpose i don't know but nixon didn't know it. >> woodruff: we're not going to resolve so much of this but we'll keep on trying. i am interested, luke nichter, and after listening to 3,000 hours of the tapes, what more did you learn about this man? we think we know everything but you learned more. >> i think what i've come away with, i think, a deeper appreciation for both his good traits and his faults. i say let's give nixon credit where credit is due and let's continue to criticize where we think criticism is due. if it's clear with this discussion that nixon occupies this unique place in our public consciousness, you have to put presidents in boxes. we have the top and bottom third, average, below average. where does nixon fall? what box do we put him in? can a box even contain him. >> woodruff: that's a good question for somebody like you who looks at contemporary history, beverly gage. >> he fits into a lot of boxes. so if you're going to do your pure numerical rankings of how successful a president was certainly the only president to resign ends up pretty close to the bottom but there's a whole series of revisionist discussions about nixon, was he actually a liberal, that by today's political standards, the man who founded the e.p.a. -- >> woodruff: a republican who founded the e.p.a., women's equal employment, started the war on cancer, you could go on. >> exactly, and many people now are actually looking back to nixon with this romantic blend of moderate republican. >> woodruff: so pat buchanan, help us understand. today we think of reps in one way. he was a different kind of republican. >> he was an eisenhower era republican. the conservative movement to which i belong began in the late '50s. nixon was already an international figure then. i looked upon him as a pragmatist who was not into government, he came out of poverty. i'm sure he didn't think the new deal was going down the road to socialism. i listened to the tapes the other night and had had scurrilous comments about jewish folks and (indiscernible). i was with him with israel in the yom kippur war. you put it together and you get a picture of someone who's a powerful, masterful figure. >> woodruff: how did he change this country? i mean, it can be argued that the way we view government, government itself changed as a result of richard nixon. >> well, one thing is that no president tapes anymore. the other thing that's quite different that i've told richard nixon, president own their papers, so the actual documentation of the presidency has changed dramatically because of the nixon era. but i also think that richard rich forced a lot of americans to think about what they want their president to do. you know, the reason why richard nixon, i believe, would not have resigned had it not been for the tapes is that we americans prefer our presidents to be right. we'll disagree with them, but at a certain point, the president is our bald eagle. we need presidents that are better than average, and richard nixon tested that and made a lot of people in congress in the supreme court, in the press and in the public think about what should the limits be on any man who occupies -- and some day i hope a woman -- who occupies the white house? for that, richard nixon will be forever remembered. >> woodruff: luke nichter, what would you add to that? >> i'd add that not just the nixon presidency but really the long 1960s fundamentally reordered the relationship between the government and the governed. young people wanted to go to journalism as a result and people have become more cynical of their political leaders. some ways it's better, it's created greater transparency but ultimately changed the country in so many ways e. . >> woodruff: i want to turn to beverly gage. did we permanently become more cynical result of watergate and the nixon presidency? do we give him the credit or discredit for that? >> i think we did. i would add two things to what's already been said, one is that we also have the look at watergate not really as ending with the resignation but having a series of consequences afterwards, particularly through the intelligence community began to have a whole series of studies of government secrecy and those fundamentally changed in the '70s. the second thing i would add is i do think it changed americans attitudes towards government and their expectations of government in a funny way. if you had been here in 1974 on this day and said what's going to happen to the republican party? you would have said they're finished! but in a funny way this suspicion of government benefited -- >> there was a good feeling in america. you had lyndon johnson and nixon and johnson was broken by the same cultural, political, moral revolution, civil rights, anti-war, all the rest of ut, urban rights, all the things that came out of the '60s that permanently brought down nixon and johnson permanently divided america. not only that, that division has grown and the counterculture is dominant now. these are the seeds of the wars we're fighting today. you can see the goldwater battle today. i don't know that the republican party can come back the because it has permanently lost a significant slice of the country. >> woodruff: we are raising subjects we could go on about and will have other opportunities to come back. thank you all very much. we thank you. >> thank you. >> ifill: again, the major developments of the day. it was widely reported this evening that the u.s. military has began air dropping humanitarian aid to yazidis fleeing islamic state fighters and president obama is also considering air strikes. secretary of state john kerry returnedto afghanistan in an urgent bid to end the deadlock over who won the presidential election. and russia formally banned imports of agricultural products from the u.s. and europe, even as nato warned moscow not to send troops into ukraine. >> woodruff: on the newshour online right now, making the decision to put down your pet is never easy, but a kansas bio- science firm is offering dog and cat owners a little comfort in the form of an organ donation. now, tissue taken from a euthanized animal can be used in research focused on advancing the treatment of canine and feline diabetes. the practice also helps to preserve the lives of research animals. read more about the program, from our partners at kansas city public tv, on our science page. all that and more is on our web site, newshour.pbs.org. >> ifill: and that's the newshour for tonight. on friday, judy talks with the president of somalia about the recent uptick in terrorist attacks by the islamic militants of al shabab. i'm gwen ifill. >> woodruff: and i'm judy woodruff. we'll see you on-line, and again here tomorrow evening with mark shields and david brooks among others. for all of us here at the pbs newshour, thank you and good night. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has 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the two candidates, abdullah abdullah and ashraf ghani, to accept results from an ongoing audit of votes from the june runoff. the u.s. wants a national unity government formed by next month. all u.s. combat forces are due to leave afghanistan by year's end. >> woodruff: meanwhile, the body of u.s. army major general harold greene arrived back in the u.s. he was killed this week by an afghan soldier outside kabul. troops carried the flag-draped metal case off a c-17 cargo plane at dover air force base in delaware. the general's family and officials, including army chief of staff, general ray ordierno, were on hand. >> ifill: this was the final day of a 72-hour truce between israel and hamas with negotiations continuing in egypt for a longer cease-fire. in gaza, several thousand palestinians marched in support of hamas. a spokesman for the militants insisted there can be no peace until the blockade of gaza is lifted. >> ( translated ): the talks in cairo are going on and we are still waiting to hear the answers. we have fair and legal demands and the israeli occupation has no choice except to respond to our demands. there will be no cease-fire and the enemy will not live in security while palestinians aren't living in real security. >> ifill: in turn, israeli officials have said hamas must disarm first before the blockade can end. >> woodruff: in cambodia, two of the last leaders of the khmer rouge reign of terror were convicted today of crimes against humanity. the fanatical communist movement killed nearly two million people in the late 1970's. a quarter of the population. 83-year old khieu samphan and 88-year-old nuon chea remained stoic today as the verdict was read. they were sentenced to life in prison by a u.n.-backed tribunal. >> ( translated ): this verdict cannot turn back time or the lives of those who died or were killed under the sun's heat, overworked, starved. this verdict will also not reunite the families who have been separated due to their however, this verdict can provide some justice and restore the respect of victims. >> woodruff: the khmer rouge's supreme leader, pol pot, was never tried, and died in 1998. >> ifill: the russian government has granted permission to edward snowden to remain in russia for three more years. his one-year asylum expired august first. snowden faces espionage charges in the u.s. for leaking extensive records on surveillance by the national security agency. >> woodruff: back in this country, a jury in detroit convicted a white homeowner today of killing an unarmed black teenager on his front porch, last november. theodore wafer fired a shotgun at renisha mcbride, after she knocked at his door, early in the morning. he said he thought it was a break-in. prosecutors said mcbride was drunk and had wrecked her car and was looking for help. the case sparked comparisons to the trayvon martin killing in florida. >> ifill: hawaii is bracing for hurricane iselles arrival tonight, the first direct hit on the state in more than 20 years. the storm could arrive with winds of 85 miles an hour and heavy rain, but governor neil abercrombie counseled residents and tourists today not to panic. >> we all have to have confidence in one another. and i want to assure the public that from the point of view of those that you have appointed, who have the jurisdiction, who have the responsibility, we're ready. and if we all work together we're going to come through this in very fine fashion. >> ifill: a second hurricane is also headed toward hawaii, but is still several days away. and if that weren't enough, a moderate earthquake jolted the area today. there were no reports of damage. >> woodruff: president obama has signed a bill to help veterans who've endured long waits for health care. the ceremony today, at fort belvoir, virginia, involved a $16 billion measure. it will pay for hiring thousands more v.a. doctors and nurses, and for vets to see private doctors in some cases. the new law also makes it easier to fire senior v.a. officials for poor performance. >> ifill: the top conferences in college sports moved a big step closer to making their own rules on everything from scholarships to recruiting. the n.c.a.a. governing board voted to let the five richest conferences make unilateral changes in some longstanding rules. the new system could take effect in january unless other schools combine to vote down the changes. >> woodruff: on wall street today, the dow jones industrial average lost 75 points to close at 16,368; the nasdaq fell 20 points to close below 4,335; and the s&p 500 slipped ten to finish at 1,909. >> ifill: also ahead on the newshour, the obama administration considers military options to support refugees fleeing islamic militants in iraq. russia bans western food imports for one year. reevaluating crime and punishment in america's jails and prisons. and the legacy of watergate, 40 years after president richard nixon resigned. >> woodruff: as the humanitarian situation grows dimmer by the hour for some in northern iraq, the white house is now considering taking military action against sunni extremists inside the country. hari sreenivasan reports. >> any sort of military action that would be taken in iraq would be very limited in scope. >> reporter: that was the official word at the white house, amid reports that president obama is considering air strikes against the islamic state group. the sunni extremists have renewed their surge across northern iraq. capturing more villages and seizing the country's largest dam today. their advance has sent thousands of christians and yazidis fleeing in the face of ultimatums to convert to islam, pay heavy fines or face death. the yazidis, who adhere to their own ancient religion, left their town of sinjar, and many have been trapped in nearby mountains without food. white house spokesman josh earnest calls the situation a catastrophe. >> the humanitarian situation is deeply disturbing there, and it's one that we are following closely. that said, it's important for everyone to understand and the president's made this clear that there are no american military solutions to the problems in iraq. we can't solve these problems for them. >> reporter: meanwhile, the u.n. has begun sheltering hundreds of yazidis, and others have streamed across the turkish border. but at least 40 children have already died from dehydration. >> ( translated ): what we want is to just rescue these people from the danger zone. we don't want anything else. we don't want money, we don't want cars, we don't want donations, we don't want food, we don't want anything. if they don't get water and food to those trapped or get them out, it will be a disaster. >> reporter: for more on what the white house is considering on iraq i'm joined by karen deyoung who is reporting on the story for the "washington post." >> i'm hearing that that's not true. i think that the pentagon and the central command that will be running this operation if and when it's approved is still waiting for the president to sign off on any activity at all either humanitarian or any air strikes. >> sreenivasan: we also had heard the administration say today that any military action would o only be if it was in lie with core american objectives. what is that rationale now? >> well, eng that they would say that humanitarian assistance and preventing the actual fall of iraq or further gains by the islamists certainly toward baghdad would not be in american interest so that would be a pretty broadly-defined definition of american interests. i think that these encroachment into kurdish territory have sort of changed the equation very quickly, literally overnight for the united states. they were prepared to allow the situation to stand as it has been for the past couple of weeks while the iraqi government tried to form a new administration that can reach out to minorities there, but having the islamist forces move into kurdistan, which has been relatively peaceful throughout this crisis, i think has changed the situation considerably. >> sreenivasan: but was there a tipple point event that they describe considering that the is islamic state group has been on a fairly aggressive march for the last month? >> i think they were fairly confident the kurdish military forces could hold the line in kurdistan and they also didn't think the islamist forces had indicated they were interested at this point in moving into kurdistan, but the fact that literally tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of iraqis from places that have already been taken over by the militants have poured into kurdistan, and the fact that, all of a sudden this week, the islamists have actually started attacking kurdish towns and cities i think, again, has made them sit up and say, whoa, this -- you know, this cannot stand. again. yo, you have to remember thatins one of the two american fusion centers, the communication centers that the u.s. forces that president obama has sent there to assist the iraqis is located, the other one is in baghdad. islamist forces are now about 40 miles away from there. >> sreenivasan: what's the debate in the white house now? what's being considered? >> i don't know that there is a strong debate at this point. i think the question is certainly whether or not air strikes could help or harm the situation and if this is the moment that this action that's been so strongly resisted by the administration up until now can actually make a difference without making the situation worse. i think the decision has pretty much been made on the humanitarian aid drops which is a separate operation. there was some effort today to open a corridor to evacuate these people who, as you described, are on the mountain top. as far as i know, that has not worked because the islamists have been shelling that evacuation and these people are stuck there with no food, water and no shelter. >> sreenivasan: would this humanitarian aid be limited to this specific zone? >> that's not clear to me, although that would certainly be the initial place. you know, the iraqi government has tried to develop some assistance to these people. didn't work out too well. they had crates of water which cracked apart when they hit the ground. you know, the united states has a lot of experience doing this and experience in this particular area doing it. you remember in 1991 there were similar air drops by u.s. forces. this was when the rest of iraq was controlled by saddam hussein. but at that time united states send groups into kurdistan to wall off the area from saddam hussein's forces. i don't think that's been contemplated now. but i think the humanitarian assistance is something that they'll likely do and fairly soon and it would start in this area. >> sreenivasan: karen deyoung of "the washington post," thank you so much. >> you're welcome. >> ifill: russia formally banned imports of agricultural products from the u.s. and europe today. even as nato sounded new warnings about moscow's military moves. chief foreign affairs correspondent margaret warner begins our coverage. >> reporter: foreign foods that have lined the shelves of russia's grocery stores will be disappearing. for a year, effective immediately, imports of fruit, vegetables, meat, fish, poultry and dairy are banned from the u.s., european union, australia, canada and norway. all those countries have imposed sanctions penalizing russia, for backing rebels in eastern ukraine. russian prime minister dmitry medvedev said today that moscow is answering in kind. >> ( translated ): all the measures have a solely retaliatory character. we didn't want such a development of events. we sincerely hope that our partners economic pragmatism will prevail over petty political reasons, and they will think, and not try to frighten and limit russia. >> reporter: notwithstanding the kremlin's defiance, president obama argues russia is hurting. he spoke at a washington news conference last night. >> sanctions are working as intended in putting enormous pressure and strain on the russian economy. the economy has ground to a halt. somewhere between $100 billion and $200 billion of capital flight has taken place. >> reporter: what's more, u.s. officials said today, russia is, in effect, imposing sanctions on its own people, by banning the main sources of imports that account for one-quarter of food consumption in russia and a much higher percentage in the major cities. today, a top u.s. treasury official left open the possibility of more u.s. sanctions if russia does not re- think its actions toward ukraine. but there's little sign of that. instead, nato now estimates 20,000 russian troops have massed near the border and says they could be getting ready to invade under the guise of a humanitarian mission. just this week, in fact, russia called a session of the u.n. security council to discuss the humanitarian situation in ukraine. nato secretary general anders fogh rasmussen issued a new warning today, as he met with ukrainian leaders in kiev. >> i call on russia to step back from the brink, step back from the border. do not use peacekeeping as an excuse for war-making. >> reporter: poland's prime minister issued a similar warning yesterday, saying the threat of direct russian intervention is certainly greater than it was a few days ago. meanwhile, inside ukraine, government forces have stepped up pressure on the rebels, with intensive new shelling in their stronghold city of donetsk. amid the fighting, a eastern ukrainian native replaced the russian national, aleksander borodai, as leader of the separatists there. >> ifill: and margaret joins me now. what was the official response of the administration to this new sanction? >> interestingly, they didn't seem terribly phased by this. they expected some retaliatory action. the u.s. on an economic level, they did not consider this particularly damaging to u.s. companies. they do take it as a sign that putin is not backing down, however, politically, but mostly officials i talked to said they thought it was really misguided and self-defeated and they may be whistling at the graveyard as we say, but one of the things that russian citizens got at the end of the cold war and the collapse of the soviet union was the freedom and the travel and having western domestic goods and he could have cranky constituency. >> ifill: how much do our goods there constitute our trade? >> not much. looking the figure up -- first of all, u.s.-russia trade last year was only, like, $38 billion total, only $11 billion of experts which only $1.2 billion of that is food. the biggest item is poultry and they're called bush legs named for george h.w. bush who negotiated a deal with gorbachev in the '90seto in the form of aid to give them the chicken legs which apparently american consumers don't like as well as they like chicken breasts now and it's grown into this multi-million-dollar business, but actually reading from the quote from the georgia poultry export association, they said, well, we got so tired of the russians jerking us around, it used to be 40% of our poultry exports went to russia, now it's only 7% last year. his point was u.s. exporters have diversified so it's not a huge hit. >> ifill: all along in the sanction debate there has been question about the difference in the u.s. and europe. europe watched this today and did they think, oh, no, we're next? >> they put out a statement that it was $15 billion of exports last year into russia. i talked to a senior official who said, however, even in the last couple of years, the percentage of our trade with russia has been going down in part because russia economically has been hurting. so german exports were down 5%, and then 10%, and they are mostly things like autos that aren't affected by this. but other european countries who are heavily dependent on agriculture exports, it will hurt. >> ifill: somine countries were slow to get on the sanctions bandwagon. buzz this shake them at all? >> that's why i talked particularly to the germans because merkel was seemingly reluctant and was the one who finally brought people along. the downing of the airliner, i think i said the last time we discussed this, was really a game changer in the minds of the europeans, the downing of the airliner and the way the bodies were treated. u.s. officials said the same thing that they have gotten no indication of weakening e.u. resolve. >> ifill: we saw today that they decided to extend edward snowden's stay for three years and digs along the way. is this another one? >> the sanctions, bans and snowden. i asked a u.s. official if the snowden matter was related. russia signed a memorandum with iran to buy crude, which is another tweak. president obama and president putin talked by phone last friday and agreed sanctions were counterproductive and need add political solution but there is no sign of backchannel negotiations on either side, i'm told. >> ifill: we're also watching russian troops along the border of ukraine. they're still there, don't seem like they're going anywhere. is it more tense? >> it is, even more so along the border. ukrainian officials who i talked to today who always believed putin may well invade said, look, even the troop levels don't matter as they built the infrastructure, so they have military hospitals, the depots and the weapons, he said they could move in 10,000, 20,000 more troops virtually overnight, certainly within a matter of days. this official also was very concerned that ukrainian forces are not making the gains we're all reading they are. he said, a week ago we were still picking one, two, or three towns a day. by now there's a stalemate and the separatists are kind of localized in countries and luhansk. the question is how does ukraine actually take the cities and are afraid they will set up an israel-gaza scenario as one described to me where it looks like ukrainians are killing civilians. >> ifill: what about settlement? >> it's looking weak. uu.s. officials say in public or private they get the same kind of reaction from the russian, he said it's like cold war days. and ukrainian officials say there are splits in the ukrainian government which are also getting in the way of this. >> ifill: margaret warner, thank you very much. >> my pleasure, gwen. >> woodruff: now, a look at how we punish people in the united states, and how that might be changing. jeffrey brown has that story. >> reporter: across the u.s., as inmate populations keep growing. calls to address prison crowding, conditions and other problems continue to be heard. just this week, the justice department issued a scathing report on abuse of teenage inmates at new york's riker's island. it spoke of "a culture of violence" that encouraged beatings and excessive use of solitary confinement. in california, state officials are under federal court orders aimed at reducing severe overcrowding of prisons. and u.s. attorney general eric holder is pushing to shorten prison terms for many non- violent offenders. on the newshour recently, he cited a fundamental unfairness in drug sentencing. >> if you are basing a sentence on something other than the conduct of the person who was involved, and the person's record, if you're looking, for instance, at factors of what educational level the person has received, what neighborhood the person comes from... >> ifill: to be clear, some states are doing that already. >> ...they are, right. and using that as a predictor, though, of how likely this person, this individual, is going to be a recidivist. i'm not at all certain i'm comfortable with that. >> reporter: the concerns have sparked bi-partisan efforts. in the senate, republican rand paul of kentucky and democratic senator corey booker of new jersey are focused on several issues, including drugs and racial disparities in prison. >> there are still some naysayers, but i think the public at large is saying, well, you know, we're not so sure drugs are right for people, but we are thinking that maybe we should rehabilitate people, that people, particularly kids, deserve a second chance. when they make mistakes, let's get them back into society and working, which makes them less likely to go back into drugs. >> reporter: still it's unclear if or when congress might take action. so is the ground shifting on criminal justice issues? we look across the spectrum at problems and solutions with: bryan stevenson, a longtime public interest lawyer, and founder the equal justice initiative, an alabama-based non-profit focused on social justice and human rights. pat nolan is the former republican leader of the california state assembly. he's now the director of the center for criminal justice reform at the american conservative union foundation. and bill mccollum is the former attorney general of florida, now a lawyer in private practice. bryan stevenson, as someone working with inmates and looking at the criminal justice system, how would you define the problem that most needs addressing? well, i think it's overincarceration. we have the highest rate of incarceration in the world. prison population has grown from 300,000 in the '70s to 2.4 million today and we have been locked into what i call the politics of fear and anger and not made good decisions about criminal justice, sentencing, prisons, and i think getting out of that is the real challenge. >> brown: pat nolan, you're coming from a conservative perspective. how do you identify the problem? i think we've over-incarcerated. we have people who are very dangerous and need to be separated from the population, but you can overuse a thing and i think we've incarcerated people we're not afraid of, just mad at. >> brown: you mean the wrong people are in jail? >> they need sanction bus they don't need to be locked up, they don't pose a physical threat to the public. >> brown: bill mccollum, what doesn't work and what do you want to keep? >> there are problems with overcrowding and problems with sentences that are too mandatory. but the biggest problem is the recidivism rate. we return a lot to have the folks to prison again and again. they're conflicted as a felony, and then when they go back out on the streets, we don't provide them with a job they can keep. so we need to address all the problems, not just overcrowding or sentencing, it's a whole combination in the prison system. >> brown: try to make it more concrete. let me start with you bryan stevenson. give us an example of a reform or something happening around the country tha that you would e to see to address some of the problems you see. >> to pick up on what mr. bill mccollum said, i agree with that. most people sent to prison are from low-level, nviolent offenses and then most we sent back because we don't have services. we want to eliminate sending people back to prison for technical violations of probation or parole and that's the kind of reform that has really reduced overcrowding in some places. i think ending some of these mandatory sentences for drug crimes and low-level non-violent crimes can have a huge impact. in shifting the funding, we went from $6 billion in prison spending in eight 1980 to $80 bn a today and if we spend more of that money on support and rehabilitation, we can keep people out of prison for a long time. >> brown: want to pick up on that? >> i agree with bryan stevenson and bill mccollum. there are 29 million people in prison for drugs. if people aren't prepared to be productive when they get out, to hold a job and support themselves and their family, we're risking more problems. the hope program hawaii started, the folks that right before the judge started as a federal prosecutor, he said we take rules seriously and when you break them, we'll hold you accountable. we'll not send you to written six years. 48 hours, you can think over what you've done and come back and you have a chance to get back in drug treatment, stay clean. it resulted in 50% lower crime rate among those going through his court, 68% fewer missed appointments with the probation officer and i think 66% fewer dirty drug tests. so it's saving money, they aren't having to take up beds in prison but it's holding them accountable. we need to follow these guys and make sure they're staying on the straight and narrow and not doing something bad again. >> brown: bill mccollum, do you have an example you want to give us that addresses the problem you mentioned? >> i served o as the attorney general on the clemency board in florida and i saw our cases come up regularly and despite the fact i agree if you have a simple possession you shouldn't be incarcerated for an extended period of time. most cases were not simple possession of drugs, they were other crimes, not always violent. but if you have a large enough quantity and dealing in drugs you caught to have a mandatory minimum sentence in my opinion. maybe these sentences sometimes are too long but we need to deal and i think it's is a serious problem where the criminals are going to be there even after we address the overcrowding for the minor possession issue and change some of the laws maybe on diverting a few people but cause, the majority i think of the states are not there for the crimes that we're talking about, they're for more serious matters and we need to address the rehab and what we do twheez prisoners, these return prisoners, repeat offenders. >> brown: just listening, mr. mccolumn, are you worried the idea of reform can do too far? >> yes, i am. i'm worried when i was on the committee in congress and chaired it for a while i know judges oppose any idea of sentencing guidelines that kept their hands tied especially minimum mandatory sentences and we have gone too far with minimum mandatories but there's a place for that, there's a place for jeb bush's 10, 20, life when you have repeat offenders and they commit certain types of fennelies again and again. so i'm worried the move the to release prisoners and reduce sentences to minimum mandatories will take it opposite direction and go too far. >> brown: bryan stevenson, response? >> i'm not so worried about that. we had 300,000 people in prison in the early 1970s. the violent crime in most places is about where i have to in the '60s when we had a dramatically smaller prison population. i agree we have to focus on people who are threats to public safety, we have to get them out of society and protect the pub public, but we have tens of thousands who are not in that category. if we treat drug dependency as a health problem, i think we can provide better services, keep people out of jails or prisons and not in any way undermine public safety. we've got a lot of space to operate, unfortunately, to reduce our prison population without increas increasing threo public safety. >> where is this as a political matter? the question i asked at the top, has the ground shifted? >> yeah, it's been very interesting. in the last several years, many conservative leaders across the country are working to implement policies to get the most public safety per dollar. we have been stingy with other parts of government and have quite frankly turned a blind eye to corrections and instead saying are we getting enough public safety? so texas led the way by changing the laws so they didn't incarcerate those at the low level of the spectrum, they lowered the amount spent but just didn't put it back in the budget, they put it in the program like bill mccollum talked about, job training, drug treatment, mental health care. sith saved the money and the lives of the low-level offenders and put it into things or into rehabilitation. the key thing is they've saved over $3 billion and the crime rate is the lowest it's been since 1968. >> brown: and bill mccollum, just in our last minute here, do you see the political ground shifting and where is the public in all of this? >> well, i think the public sees the crime rate down now and it's swinging more towards looseness and letting more people out and doing more diversion and drug treatment. that's not all bad. i'm worried they not go too far. punishment is part of the system we have of deterrence. that's how you deter crime. so even if you don't have a violent crime, there are crimes out there that need to get certainty in the punishment and we need to have them in prison. i just think we have to be careful when we talk about them not to put too many in that category. small drug offenders, possession, yes, that could be diverted, major crimes in theft and criminal behavior and other cases major drug traffickers, no. >> brown: big subject to be continued. bryan stevenson, pat nolan, bill mccollum, thank you all very much. >> thank you. >> woodruff: tomorrow marks the 40th anniversary of the end of richard nixon's presidency, an occasion to look back at a man, and a moment, that changed the country. >> therefore, i shall resign the presidency effective at noon tomorrow. >> woodruff: on the evening of august 8th 1974 from the oval office president richard nixon announced his resignation. this after a two-year-long saga that became known as the watergate scandal. on june 17th 1972, five men who had been hired by the committee to re-elect the president were arrested trying to bug the offices of the democratic national committee in the watergate complex. it was one part of a large clandestine effort to ensure nixon's re-election. that fall he won by a landslide, beating senator george mcgovern by nearly 18 million votes. but investigations into the watergate break-in continued eventually tying the white house to the burglary. in february 1973, a senate committee began to look into the president's connection to the watergate break-in and the subsequent cover-up. that may, the special panel began hearings which lasted nine months. some members of president nixon's own administration testified against him, including former white house counsel john dean who said there had been a coverup, one he had discussed with the president. >> i began by telling the president that there was a cancer growing on the presidency and if the cancer was not removed, the president himself would be killed by it. >> woodruff: and former white house aide, alexander butterfield, confirmed the existence of audio tapes on which the president had recorded all telephone calls and conversations in the oval office since 1971. >> were you aware of any devices installed in the executive office building office of the president?" >> yes sir. >> woodruff: after the hearings, democrats, commentators and even members of his own party called for the president to resign. but he resisted, with comments like this at a news conference in march of '74. >> it perhaps would be an act of courage to resign. i should also point out, however, that while it might be an act of courage to run away from a job that you were elected to do, it also takes courage to stand and fight for what you believe is right, and that is what i intend to do. >> woodruff: the president also refused to turn over the oval office tapes, until on july 24th, the supreme court ordered their release. three days later, the house judiciary committee voted along bipartisan lines to approve articles of impeachment, charging the president with obstruction of justice and abuse of power. he continued to proclaim his innocence, until a group of republican congressional leaders told him he could not survive votes in either house, at which time, he finally decided to step down: >> sometimes i have succeeded and sometimes i have failed. >> woodruff: the next day- richard nixon departed the white house, becoming the only american president to resign the office. and we take this moment to look back at someone who had a profound effect on our nation. joining us for that is: beverly gage, professor of 20th century american history at yale university. presidential historian timothy naftali, former director of the richard nixon presidential library and museum. now head of the taminent library and robert f. wagner archives at new york university. pat buchanan, who served as a senior advisor in the nixon white house, and author of the book "the greatest comeback: how richard nixon rose from defeat to create the new majority." and luke nichter, co-author, with douglas brinkley, of the "the nixon tapes," a compilation of key conversations recorded by the president's secret white house taping system. and we welcome you all to the "newshour". pat buchanan as someone who knew richard nixon very well, why do you think it's important that we look back at him and his presidency? >> well, certainly, when you mention the watergate scandal, it was the biggest scandal in the american political history that brought down his presidency. bill clinton was impeached but he survived that. nixon's presidency is extraordinary because when you look at his first term and second term, i think you would find him most consequential of presidents. arms control of the soviet union, ended the draft, desegregated the south, had enacted 18-year-old vote, e.p.a., osha, the cancer institute. so he was an enormously consequential president and it's my and others' view that he stood down and i think in his second term he would have been a near greatest +*79 but i think his second term was a failure. >> pat buchanan raises the point. we're still trying to digest this 40 years later. >> ten years ago, i started working on the tapes and i know it now that when you add all the watergate and abuse of government power we call it material on tapes, it's only about 5 to 7% of the total tapes, yet these 5 to 7% have created almost 100% of our impression of the man and his presidency. >> woodruff: but when you look at this, there's still a fascination with richard nixon. why is that? >> we still have 700 to 800 hours of tapes that have not been released so we're already drowning in tapes and we still have a lot more to learn. i teach 18 to 20-year-olds who, for them, richard nixon is an ancient as the american civil war. they don't even have a great living memory of 9/11. they want to learn something other than watergate. >> woodruff: beverly gage, you talked to us about he was a part of a series of things that happened in this country in the late '60s and '70s. expand on that. >> you have to see watergate as a series of crises in the american government and watergate is one of the most dramatic of them but it comes in the context of a huge struggle in vietnam, over seek riover vietnam, over the ways the intelligence establishment had been treating anti-war protesters at home, it comes in the midst of real turmoil, certainly of civil rights in the united states, a breakdown in some ways of democracy at the democratic national convention and, so, watergate became of sort of a place where all of these contests came together and where i think played out in watergate. in addition to playing out, to produce richard nixon himself. >> woodruff: timothy naftali, is that one reason we remain so fascinated by him? >> we remain fascinate by him because on the one hand he was brilliant. he was also a political icon in this country for 50 years and, at the same time, he remains the only president to resign. those two years from the moment that the break-in occurred at the watergate until the time he resigned, richard nixon fought with the truth and, ultimately, the american people and all three branches of government learned he had been lying all along. by overstepping his bounds, richard nixon tested our constitutional structure. what happened 40 years ago this week was that the u.s. constitutional structure showed that it could last and was flexible enough to deal with the president who had exceeded his constitutional bounds. as beverly intimated, this really was the high point of the imperial presidency. from this point on, congress and the supreme court would be taking measurers, putting them in place to reduce to some extent executive authority. richard nixon is shakespearean because he was so full of power, so full of darkness, so full of ambition that he tested our constitutional structure and reshaped it in a way that i'm sure he regretted, but in a way that's been helpful to all americans. >> woodruff: shakespearean, pat buchanan? >> they're taking wiretaps and things and all that was cord up. the question is excellent. why is there such a fascination? richard nixon was a national figure in 1947. i don't know what grade i was in. he was in the whole mccarthy truman era. he loses to j.f.k., loses in california, says goodbye i'm out of politics, manages the greatest comeback in american political history. because of the frankly indecisiveness in watergate not to step up and say our guys did it, i didn't know about it. the prime minister said he's got to be a good butcher and he was not a good butcher. >> woodruff: pat, you've reduced watergate just to a break-in and the coverup to the break-in. watergate turned out to be abused of power well documented by the case. only 202 hours but those are startling and dramatic and very troubling 202 hours. the president applied to the domestic realm the kinds of activities that we associate with foreign covert action. he tinted mind doing whatever -- he didn't mind doing whatever was necessary to hurt his political enemy. >> "washington post" hero, mark felt in charge of jobs for hoover, a corrupt phish agent, stealing secrets out of the grand jury, turning them over to reporters the fruits of his crimes to bring down a president. this was a tougher ray. i was offered the headship of the plumbers and i went over and looked at these cowboys and said i don't think i want to do this job, but some stupid idiot went into ginsburg's psychiatry office for what purpose i don't know but nixon didn't know it. >> woodruff: we're not going to resolve so much of this but we'll keep on trying. i am interested, luke nichter, and after listening to 3,000 hours of the tapes, what more did you learn about this man? we think we know everything but you learned more. >> i think what i've come away with, i think, a deeper appreciation for both his good traits and his faults. i say let's give nixon credit where credit is due and let's continue to criticize where we think criticism is due. if it's clear with this discussion that nixon occupies this unique place in our public consciousness, you have to put presidents in boxes. we have the top and bottom third, average, below average. where does nixon fall? what box do we put him in? can a box even contain him. >> woodruff: that's a good question for somebody like you who looks at contemporary history, beverly gage. >> he fits into a lot of boxes. so if you're going to do your pure numerical rankings of how successful a president was certainly the only president to resign ends up pretty close to the bottom but there's a whole series of revisionist discussions about nixon, was he actually a liberal, that by today's political standards, the man who founded the e.p.a. -- >> woodruff: a republican who founded the e.p.a., women's equal employment, started the war on cancer, you could go on. >> exactly, and many people now are actually looking back to nixon with this romantic blend of moderate republican. >> woodruff: so pat buchanan, help us understand. today we think of reps in one way. he was a different kind of republican. >> he was an eisenhower era republican. the conservative movement to which i belong began in the late '50s. nixon was already an international figure then. i looked upon him as a pragmatist who was not into government, he came out of poverty. i'm sure he didn't think the new deal was going down the road to socialism. i listened to the tapes the other night and he had had scurrilous comments about jewish folks and (indiscernible). i was with him with israel in the yom kippur war. you put it together and you get a picture of someone who's a powerful, masterful figure. >> woodruff: how did he change this country? i mean, it can be argued that the way we view government, government itself changed as a result of richard nixon. >> well, one thing is that no president tapes anymore. the other thing that's quite different that i've told richard nixon, president own their papers, so the actual documentation of the presidency has changed dramatically because of the nixon era. but i also think that richard rich forced a lot of americans to think about what they want their president to do. you know, the reason why richard nixon, i believe, would not have resigned had it not been for the tapes is that we americans prefer our presidents to be right. we'll disagree with them, but at a certain point, the president is our bald eagle. we need presidents that are better than average, and richard nixon tested that and made a lot of people in congress in the supreme court, in the press and in the public think about what should the limits be on any man who occupies -- and some day i hope a woman -- who occupies the white house? for that, richard nixon will be forever remembered. >> woodruff: luke nichter, what would you add to that? >> i'd add that not just the nixon presidency but really the long 1960s fundamentally reordered the relationship between the government and the governed. young people wanted to go to journalism as a result and people have become more cynical of their political leaders. some ways it's better, it's created greater transparency but ultimately changed the country in so many ways e. . >> woodruff: i want to turn to beverly gage. did we permanently become more cynical result of watergate and the nixon presidency? do we give him the credit or discredit for that? >> i think we did. i would add two things to what's already been said, one is that we also have the look at watergate not really as ending with the resignation but having a series of consequences afterwards, particularly through the intelligence community began to have a whole series of studies of government secrecy and those fundamentally changed in the '70s. the second thing i would add is i do think it changed americans attitudes towards government and their expectations of government in a funny way. if you had been here in 1974 on this day and said what's going to happen to the republican party? you would have said they're finished! but in a funny way this suspicion of government benefited -- >> there was a good feeling in america. you had lyndon johnson and nixon and johnson was broken by the same cultural, political, moral revolution, civil rights, anti-war, all the rest of ut, urban rights, all the things that came out of the '60s that permanently brought down nixon and johnson permanently divided america. not only that, that division has grown and the counterculture is dominant now. these are the seeds of the wars we're fighting today. you can see the goldwater battle today. i don't know that the republican party can come back the because it has permanently lost a significant slice of the country. >> woodruff: we are raising subjects we could go on about and will have other opportunities to come back. thank you all very much. we thank you. >> thank you. >> ifill: again, the major developments of the day. it was widely reported this evening that the u.s. military has began air dropping humanitarian aid to yazidis fleeing islamic state fighters and president obama is also considering air strikes. secretary of state john kerry returnedto afghanistan in an urgent bid to end the deadlock over who won the presidential election. and russia formally banned imports of agricultural products from the u.s. and europe, even as nato warned moscow not to send troops into ukraine. >> woodruff: on the newshour online right now, making the decision to put down your pet is never easy, but a kansas bio- science firm is offering dog and cat owners a little comfort in the form of an organ donation. now, tissue taken from a euthanized animal can be used in research focused on advancing the treatment of canine and feline diabetes. the practice also helps to preserve the lives of research animals. read more about the program, from our partners at kansas city public tv, on our science page. all that and more is on our web site, newshour.pbs.org. >> ifill: and that's the newshour for tonight. on friday, judy talks with the president of somalia about the recent uptick in terrorist attacks by the islamic militants of al shabab. i'm gwen ifill. >> woodruff: and i'm judy woodruff. we'll see you on-line, and again here tomorrow evening with mark shields and david brooks among others. for all of us here at the pbs newshour, thank you and good night. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: ♪ ♪ moving our economy for 160 years. bnsf, the engine that connects us. >> charles schwab, proud supporter of the "pbs newshour." >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. captioning sponsored by macneil/lehrer productions captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org . this is "nightly business report" with tyler mathisen and susie gharib. >> global tensions, stocks slump as concerns over europe's economy and possible escalations in ukraine and iraq weigh on the markets. how global turmoil, could, could end up helping u.s. stocks and bonds. >> passwords, as more and more reports surface of data breaches and computer hacks, are passwords becoming a thing of the past? >> and a heavy burden, companies have drugs that might save some people's lives. but they have to say no. the difficult decisions, and the reason behind them. as we continue the three-part series for desperate measures for thursday, august 7th. good eveng.
issue, we fundamentally are against terrorism, clearly against terrorism and if we have the opportunity to combat them we will do so because terrorists threaten everyone, both countries in which the terrorists operate as well as others. >> rose: and we one clude with the secretary of general of nato anders fogh rasmussen. >> it's become clear to everybody why we still need nato. now, we are faced with complete new security situation in the east because of russia's illegal military actions. but you see, you see, i would call it an act of crises surrounding nato. not only to the east but also to the southeast and to the south, even from cyberspace. >> the president of iran and secretary of nato when we continue. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: mr. president, thank you for joining us. >> i also thank you, sir. >> rose: it's a pleasure to see you again. >> i'm also quite gratified to see you after about one year. >> rose: the united states as announced bombing in syria. they notified you beforehand. were you notified? >> this does not mean that the united states of america vis-a-vis its air bombardment informs iran previously or willing for iran. on the sidelines of the nuclear talks in a general fashion, this topic was touched upon and they had a general conversation about it, about the fact that the u.s. said they intends to extend the range of the air bombardments that we have in iraq. nothing precise, nothing that came a day or a few hours prior to this bombardment of syria. >> rose: do you approve of what the united states did? >> what is the meaning? does the united states think that with a few bombardments, we'll be able to destroy terrorism? and make them suffer damages if let's the general thought, then it's incredibly simple thinking that we would be combating terrorism. including the fact that the terrorism has been taking the lines of syrians for the past three years. how come is it that now the united states is thinking about combating them and defeating them? >> rose: i assume because they became alarmed by the success of isis. >> in any fashion, the terrorist groups in syria have attracted many villages, killed an incredibly vast number of people. conquered cities during the last three years and the united states not only did not show any reaction, but sometimes the tone was something that was perhaps encouraging the terrorist activities. >> rose: in fact the president of the united states said the reason they do not support moderate forces was because they feared weapons will fall into the hands of those you describe as terrorists. >> well in any fashion, where did these people obtain the arms and weapons. there were countries that weaponry and came in syria financially and in worse countries that encourage them in their media. all of these supporters must be held to account and be made to answer for the killing that has taken place in syria over the last three years. >> rose: my impression of your argument is that some arab countries will now engage in the fight against isis earlier supported the rise of isis. >> well in any way, sir, you're aware that not only regional countries, some regional countries but also some countries from outside our region were supporting various terrorist groups. the united states herself has given support of them. and these types of support have come in various forms. some financially, some with equipping and some made their country the territory of their nation as the passageway to the field of battle and some encourage them in their domestic media and international media. all of them in one fashion or another encouraged and supported these terrorists. terrorism is always bad, without exception. you cannot say now it's good and another time condemn it. it is always bad and evil. >> rose: why do you think they thought it was good? why would these governments support terrorism? >> unfortunately, in the world of politics, the understanding for some is such that when an objective becomes a paramount importance. for example, the toppling of a certain government becomes of utmost important, then they allow themselves to use any means, any means in order to reach their own objective. whereas these means, these tools can at a later point be used against them. >> rose: you're suggesting that saudi arabia, qatar, turkey supported the terrorists because they wanted to overthrow president beshard al-assad. >> i did not say other countries but you're free to interpret it the way you wish. there are certain countries that with the government were opposed to the government of syria and were under the impression by supporting the terrorists they would succeed in toppling that government. but obviously they were quite wrong in their calculus. >> rose: do you believe the facts now will have the possibility of toppling the assad government in syria? and that is the -- >> we, for the objective of these bombardments, these ariel campaigns are not clear and we do not know. the final objective, the end game for those who carry out the air bombardments, anything can be the objective. in our opinion, if the air bombardments campaign is not within the frame work of international law, it is to be condemned. and assuming that if the objective is such for them to combat terrorists, in a nation, in a country territory without coordination, with the government of that country, at the request of that country, then such action, whatever the intent may be can be considered an attack, an invasion. >> rose: even though it's not an attack against the government of syria. it's attack against people who have been barbaric in their actions. the actions is against them and not the syrian government. and in fact the administration communicated that to the syrian government. >> at some point the syrian government, let's assume they can act. thatbit. the other is a third party, a certain government decides on her own to target certain areas of a nation through ariel bombardment. in any way. without the threat of government, a country, it's quite meaningless for us to enter the country in any way shape or fashion through air bombardments or otherwise. so it is a wrong action. >> rose: even though you have been outspoken in characterizing isis as a threat. you've made it clear that they have to be stopped. you criticize them for even using the name of islam. >> all of that is correct absolutely. this terrorist group is a terrorist group and.,qvá)emely terrorist groups it's extremely savage and barbaric in their conduct, in their action, and inappropriately and wrongly use the name of islam and the fate of muslims in all of their actions unhe equalally, the government and teachings of islam. but that doesn't mean a group in a country conducts various activities another country without coordination and without permission of the central government of the victimized country even their air space, albeit, and carry out an air bombardment campaign. i think this is quite clear for everyone to understand and filmize there's no room for other interpretations. if anyone wishes to carry out any operations, air campaigns or otherwise they need to do so with the permission of the government of that country. >> rose: what are your conditions for iran to be engaged in the battle against isis? what's necessary for iran? >> i spoke of this previously. any country a teeter or group of terrorists are active. if the government of that country formally requests the republic of iran for assistance, we will assist against them those terrorists. >> rose: that is true in terms of your previous relationship with the government fighting in the civil war in syria. because bashar assad is all of the them against the terrorists civil war. >> if we label a group as terrorists, we're not seeking to speak of something that we have doubts about. a group in a country are carrying forward terrorists and barbaric activities, we know they're terrorists. if the government of that country formally requests of us to assist that government against a group of terrorists, we will certainly render that assistance. >> rose: is there possibility here of some kind of grand bargain in which if there is progress in the nuclear talks, you would be more acceptable to participating in the fight against isis? >> we do not connect the two issues. mondmentally the nuclear talks and the fact that we must all of us see progress, tangible progress and resolve issues, we do believe that the resolution of those issuesó benefits all. it benefits the regions as well as the entirety of the world. but outside that nuclear issue, we are fundamentally against terrorism, clearly against terrorism. and if we have the opportunity to gas terrorists we will do so. because terrorists endanger and threaten everyone. both country in which the terrorists operate, as well as others. because terrorism is borderless. it does not remain constant in one country or mobile. it's like a parasite that moves from one region to another. no one can feel as being safe from that parasite, until that parasite, those microbial beings exist in a certain area, we must only concentration on the eradication on those. we can only have peace of mind at a time when terrorism no longer exists and the terrorists no longer can see an environment or atmosphere for their activities. but until such time as there exists a conducive environment for the growth and their expansion, this is an incredibly threatening and dangerous phenomenon, not just for one but multitude of countries and regions. >> rose: why do terrorists invoke the name of islam in their recruitment? >> evil. or the wrong always uses the name of the righteous and enable of the righteous in ordems reah their objectives. no one will say, i'm an oppressor, i am evil be on my side, be with me. if they wish to be able to attract recruits, they will come up with slogans that are desirable. in our region, the faith is quite attractive for the youth of our region. our youth is in love with the islamic culture and the islamic teaching. and some have managed to take advantage of this love and use a mask in order, use a face in order to mask the realities of their being. and on the other hand unfortunately in our region, because of the hegemony in the region, a lot of youth have lost their hope and this hopelessness is a path that makes them more readily available to go toward safe slogan thinking that will be their salvation where as it's not. thinking they can prize from the oppression that they have seen and reach the region of that oppression. it is always like that. some have always managed to take advantage of the righteousness and good. and this group is abusing the name of the faith of islam. >> rose: so the battle has to do not only on the battlefield, not only military but in terms of reaching and debating the world of ideas. >> the root of terrorism must certainly within cultural and social, as well as political frame works, be addressed withie those frame works only. terrorism cannot only be defeated with bombs or weapons. we must ultimately eradicate the bulk of violence from the mind and mind set of the youth. they must be hate so that they do not believe that through violence they can reach objective. which maybe perceived, wrongly perceived in the mind of this youth as holy objective, they cannot be thinking this is the way to reach that objective. we must give them the correct explanation, the correct interpretation from a cultural angle, from social angles, from the eradication of poverty and addressing poverty. a lot of economic issues, economic situations can become fertile ground for violence. therefore if we really want to look at terrorism for what it is, the evil thatnúsñ it is and combat it and eradicate it, we must have an extremely holistic approach to it and approach it from every angle. if we only focus and concentrate on the leaves and different branches of leaves, other than trimming those leaves and branches because the roots are still imbedded in the ground, that real evil will flourish and grow again. down the line we will face the same tree only stronger and more deeply rooted. >> rose: in this context, where do you put the shi'a sunni? >> let's, if you will, the tension between different÷ faith has always been something line up people against one another. always. in our region from the old days it was always the same and everyone knew they said when oppression wanted to enter the region and take advantage of the region's people, the resources, they always seek to do so, they always sought to do so by creating gaps between the different faiths or the sects in the region. so the religious beliefs that in their mind can easily justify lining people against one another. and those who keep speaking about the conflict between shi'a and sunni are certainly fundamentally against both sects. they're not shi'a nor are they sunni. and many certainly believe that a religious culture has no place in society. this is the multitude that has always been used throughout the region, the reality is that both shi'a and sunnis believe in one holy book. and maybe the greatest majority of those thoughts and beliefs are common thoughts and beliefs. >> rose: yet many people view the struggle in the middle east today beyond the struggle against terrorism. as they struggle for influence in the region between two primary powers, iran and saudi arabia. a contest for influence.>> well,a have lived across the water from one another for many centuries. the people from saudi arabia even now, many of them travel to iran every year for pilgrimage and many iranians go for pilgrimage as well. we have neighbors throughout many years of long history have managed to live well next to one another. yet, saudi arabia, sure, could be a regional power. iran could be a regional power. there are other regional powers. absolutely. absolutely. but there are other regional powers. >> rose: turkey? >> surely, surely. turkey in the future. iraq will be a great power in the region. any way, we must live next to each other. even now, the united states is a power, the european union is a power. doesn't mean if there are multitudes of powers, of centers of power, their progress can be realized through the destruction or the weakening of one another. the solution for mutual progress is for countries to collaborate and cooperate and seek to obtain the mutual objective for the progress of not only one another but for the region as a whole. therefore sure, someone could interpret it as iran speaking a regional hegemony that other countries are seeking that regional hegemony. we never thought regional hegemony. we're not seeking nor will we ever. in the past 200 years of our nation we've never attacked or invaded another country. there were countries who were born in an extremely weak analysis next to our borders.wed them, we collaborated with them, next to them. but you saw after the downfall of the soviet union, quite a few small countries to the northern border of our country came into being in existence. we recognize the legitimacy, we've helped and assisted them. we collaborated with them. we must all learn peaceful coexistence with one another. particularly neighbors. towards one another. this is the only way to realize progress, nothing else. >> rose: i think you have suggested there was some progress in relationship with saudi arabia because your foreign minister went and talked to the foreign minister of saudi arabia and you have suggested there's a dialogue there. >> certainly it is so. saudi arabia is our neighbor. we have had very good relationship with them in the past. and now vis-a-vis our mutual objectives, we don't have any particular challenges. perhaps there are differences of opinion vis-a-vis certain regional issues. but whenever conflict of opinion, differences of opinion arise about regional issue, the best way to resolve those is to sit down and talk them out and reach a solution. >> rose: so why don't you sit down with the president of the united states while you're in new york? you know where i'm going? you're seek the prime minister of britain. why not see the president of the united states. talk about what divides you. talk about nuclearation, talk about terrorism. talk about how you can cooperate. talk about your stuff. >> in any ways, between the united states and america, throughout the last 30=y some od years, conflict and tensions have existed, quite a few. you are fully aware of the history of this relationship between the two countries during the last three plus decades. of course one day these difficulties, these challenges must be resolved. i do not believe that between iran andperpetual distance, perl gap and tension. in any way, i do believe that these tensions will come to an end. one day the distances will be shortened. the nation the two people will not allow the gap in perpetuity. but how to defeat these gaps. to resolve the issue and the difficulties. of course now between iran and thedirect talks vis-a-vis the nuclear issue. they are talking to one another. even at the ministerial level. one day, perhaps there will be a need for talks at a higher level. we must interpret at what time under what conditions and in order to reach what objective. what we must accept is that we must look towards the future that encompasses the benefits and the interests of both nations and both people. >> rose: the united states has imposed sanctions against iran. are they effective? are they causing pain? to the iranian citizens? >> in any way, sir, when a country uses illegitimate tools and causes for the delayed receiving of medication by those who are gravely ill, this causes hardship for those who suffer illness because of the lack of medication in their countries. sanctions are extremely oppressive, have been extremely oppressive and unfair. unfairly imposed. and have been quite damaging at a human level, if nothing else. you're fully aware that in, during a period of time, people either did not have access to medicationexorbitantly high prir those medications. could be obtain the tools and the raw materials that they needed because of the sanctions. so all of this in aggregate means that a nation, a people have suffered. but these pressures are also exerted perhaps involuntarily against the source. so it is a double-edged sword. both sides will suffer the pain, for the imposer of the sanctions and for those on whom it is imposed. what is important is that our people did not surrender in the face of these sanctions. for their own rights, they have stood up for their own rights and we've received sanctions as a wrong path to follow and wrong tool to use and the wrong putk÷ between two countries. as you touched upon earlier it is the conversation of table talk and understanding. now do you think ill ill legitt tools. >> rose: why don't you talk to the president of the united states while you're in new york. >> i answered this question. two nations that have suffered many problems between one another and have had very difficulty towards one another. if one day the appropriate foundation hasn't been laid for such a meeting, if the appropriate aim has not been calculated, then it would not be fruitful. so today, the conditions do not dictate such a meeting. we do not want to put on a show. our people do not enjoy or theatre and certainly that is something that the people of the united states. >> rose: nor does the president want to do that. >> therefore, let the time mature. upon during which such talk and such meetings can be fruitful towards resolving problems and issues. >> rose: what does time have to cure? what is it that time will take care of? what is the essence of the conflict? is it nuclear tensions? you say for peaceful uses. they believe for weapons. is it political? >> well, it emanates from this. we can sometimes as humans perhaps we're keen on denying reality. because these3ç realities whene revolution took place in iran and iran succeeded in their own will managing the affairs of their country. and someone who was being managed by the united states was made to meet that country for good, the united states did not want to accept this. or perhaps they thought they could deny the reality or change the reality. or the previous wrong experience through which they toppled the prime minister. they did not fully reach an understanding of the essence of this islamic revolution. so that was the starting point of these tensions of this conflict and we saw during the holy defense war against iraq, the americans did show an acceptable behavior. they backed and supported someone who was an attacker and invader. and everything, you know, what everything else has happened leading us to where we are today, illegal sanctions against the country. these are not fruitful. these create and increase the size of these gaps. we must take action, we must show our goodwill so that these gaps will decrease. if we made a mistake in the past doesn't mean that we need to repeat it. we're not going to repeating our mistakes. when the american politics and the american government takes that position i assure you the positions will change noticeably. which means they will decide to accept their reality of iran, to accept the reality of a nation of iran and accept an unalienable rights of the people of iran. certainly the results of this recent situation will change. >> rose: you believe, the president has said that the nuclear issue as of november 24th i think deadline. he said it's 50/50. what do you think? do you think you will reach an agreement with the unitedhñ stas over nuclear issues by november 24th? >> what i can say is that if the serious will exists in both sides, that certainly this agreement is within reach. from our side, certainly this serious will does exist in order to reach an agreement so that we can resolve and put away the points of contention that exist between the sides today. but the same willingness must exist in the counterparts. we do not leave to chance and say we have been visions in these negotiations or the other sides have been losers. the what if we both say that the only slogan that we chant is that it has to be a win/win situation for all sides involved. so that the rights of all nations are respected. and ultimately, all international rights and laws can be respected, then certainly before the deadline that's remaining ahead of us, we will proceed in resolving this issue. >> rose: then describe your win/win. what is a win/win for the president of iran on nuclearation. >> in my opinion this win/win is quite clear. it is what has been written in international law and agreement. iran has the right to use all available nuclear technology for saw viflian purposes and iran will not be discriminated against in reaching these rights. iran is a signatory to the mpt and must be treated like other countries who are signatories. and if there are any reasons for lack of confidence, we are willing toho erase the reasons r those those that are looking. the condition must be created as a win/win for both sides. so the win means that iran must be victorious in safeguarding every right to use peaceful nuclear energy and technologyand and must be should throughs no deviation from this. >> rose: there will be no nucelaion. but they said they need 100,000 centrifuges. >> what we want is to have the ability to use various sources of energy, meaning having the ability to provide, for our electricity needs through various ways. you do know that now we do have a power plant, you do know that we are in conversations with russia, you do know that we are in talks with russia for new power plants. we do want both in the construction of power plants to reach a point of self sufficiency, to be able to build the nuclear power plant ourselves. as well as providing for our own fuel with self sufficiency. you do know that when a power plant is made operational, perhaps it can function for 50 or 60 years. but three times a year, the fuel needs to be replaced. so three times a year, we do need to provide for new fuel and bring it to the power plants. so we do need to be self sufficient in the arena of providing fuel for our own needs, for at least one installation similar to bouche and the reactors for radio isotopes, we also want to provide for the fuel needed for that. so the calculus between our experts and subject matter experts, it's to be able to provide the fuel needed for an installation such as the one we have in bouche as well as the iran reactor which is used for medical research and nuclear isotope productions. if we can reach these objectives, we will have a need for 190,000, swu. so for those 190 thousand you can say it is the fuel needed toward one power plant. >> rose: do you believe the present attacks against eye cision in syria will be successful. >> do you mean the united states -- >> rose: arab countries. with the support of the free syrian army. that's the strategy. >> it is not clear for us. what they're speaking. whether they're under the pressure of their own domestic public opinions and want to put on a show, a theatre for public consumption, or they're after a tangible, a real objective in the region, it is not crystal clear for us. but what i can tell you unequivocally, no terrorists can be eradicated and destroyed through ariel bombardment only. >> rose: no one believes that. no one believes that. the united states doesn't believe that, the arab countries don't believe that that are supporting the united states. they understand that. that's why they're focusing on the training of the free syrian army. syrian. to combat the terrorists in their own country. >> so in other words, they want to put more fuel on the existing fire. >> rose: no. they wantedfd to destroy the terrorists. >> this is not the way, sir. the way to combat terrorism, sir, is not for us to give birth to another terrorist group in order to stand up against an existing terrorist group. these are the theories of mistakes that have composed the ridges of the chain that have taken us from where we were to where we are today. we must accept the reality. we cannot organize armed groups of fighters in order to reach our objective. thus far, they were sadly mistaken, those who equipped and trained these terrorist groups. and the same will be repeated if they seek to do the same thing. from this point on, i do thank you very much, i do wish you continued health. at the very least i do hope i was able to answer some of the questions you had in mind. thank you so much and god bless you. >> rose: thank you very much, mr. president. >> rose: let's talk first about what everybody saw in that in terms of a conflict with isis. how do you see the strategy of the president and the strategy of those in the region and people who were on the gulf council and the people who have tried to come together with a coalition. is that coalition building. >> yes, indeed. i really welcome the american initiative to build such coalition. it's high time to take military action to stop the advance of isis. the so-called islamic state, which is neither islamic nor a state. it's a terrorist organization that poses3m a threat not only o iran but to the whole world. >> rose: i do want to talk about that but i want to go to ukraine and the threat there. the president seems to have made it clear that if in fact russia or president putin decided to move on a nato in any way in the baltic, there will be a response and that he should clearly understand it. >> yes, indeed. that was a very clear message from the nato summit. we adopted what we call a readiness action plan which will mean more visible nato presence in the east. so the russians know that if they were to attack an ally, they would meet not only troops from that specific ally but they would meet nato. >> rose: what about ukraine which is not a member of nato. what is necessary there to send a signal? >> obviously there is a clear difference being a member of nato or not being a nato. if you are a member it means if there's an attack one will be considered an attack on all. so members of nato are covered by this collective defense and solidarity clause. if you're not a member of nato, you're not covered by that clause. however, we have decided to step up our military cooperation with ukraine at the summit. we took positions that will help ukraine and their own capability to defend themselves. >> rose: what do they need to build that capability. >> what anyway though can provide is defense capacity building in form ofv9 training activities, advice, assistance, defense reforms. we will invite them to participate more intensively in nato exercises that will help modernize the military, build their capacity. >> rose: i heard recently two responses about where putin is. one is he got beyond a place where he wanted to be that it was a reactive measure by him and that he doesn't like the hand he's playing. the other is that in fact it is exactly what he wants to do, that it is part of something that has concerned him for a long time is that russia needs to be surrounded by a barrier. >> i have no doubt that putin's am basic is to reestablish a sphere of russian influence in the near neighborhoods, in the form of soviet space. >> rose: as a defensive measure. >> yes, both, i would say. but also to present countries in russia's new neighborhood to seek integration with nato and the european union. and it is in russia's interest to fuel protractive conflicts in the region. so this goes actually beyond ukraine. it goes beyond eastern ukraine. it's also in maldo vavment, because russia calculates as long as these countries are under served, nato and the european union will be reluctant to import such countries into our organization.to so these countries serve his interest. >> rose: do you think he felt weakness in reactions. >> i think we have demonstrated unity and cohesion. you have seen what i would call an unprecedented unity between the european union, the u.s., nato, g7. i think we have sent a very clear message. having said that, no doubt that putin counts a western reluctance to really control him. so i have no doubt that continued russian destabilization of ukraine should be met by broader and tougher economic sanctions. >> rose: you also believe that there is a political solution, do you not? >> yes, but i think the only sustainable long term solution is political solution, there's no military. >> rose: what would be the outlines of that? >> well, first of all let me stress, that it's for the ukrainians to decide the long term solution without outside interference. in that respect, i welcome that president poroshenko to reform the ukrainian society with a view to decentralize powers and gives more influence to the region as requested by some of the eastern regions. so i think recurrent political leadership in kiev to find a peaceful and political solution. >> rose: do you think putin is prepared for that or do wetc has to be coerced into that by sanctions. >> putin plays a double game. on the one hand occasionally accommodating statements and actions, sometimes you see withdrawal of russian troops. then afterwards, you see a build up of russian troops. all with the aim to confuse the public in western countries. and also whenever we have meetings or going to have meetings that could, that could result in sanctions, then putin makes some moves. so it's all a game. so while issuing accommodating statements then with the other hands, they continue destabilizing ukraine. >> rose: in the game -- >> not really forward. it's really i am very much concerned. this is really dramatically typical situation in europe. we have spent more than 20 years to build a constructive partnership with rush since the end of the cold war. i would say we have a generation obligation to try and use the new situation after the cold war to build constructive relationship with russia. but clearly today russia considers us not a partner but adversary and of course we have to adapt to that. >> rose: you're adapting to that. >> it's a force that can be deployed rapidly, within a very few days. it can beáñ deployed to an ally that has been attacked or threatened by a potential aggressor. in order to be able to receive such reinforcement quickly, we would have to prepare facilities. so pre positioned equipment and supplies, prepare necessary infrastructure including bases and ports. so you will see more visible nato presence in these. >> rose: has the crises reminded us why nato was created in the first place? because there was a sense before this crises what's nato do? and all of a sudden there's almost a demand that nato shows what it's about. >> the question has changed from why nato. >> rose: exactly. >> i think it has become very clear why we still need nato. now, we are faced with completely new security situation in the east because of russia's illegal military actions. but you see, you see i will call it an arc of crises surrounding nato not only to the east but also to the southeast and even from cyberspace. and so for all these, we need a very strong collective system. and this is also reason why we need to invest more in security defense. during the last five year the russians have increased their defense spending by 50%!ñ while nato allies have decreased spending by 20%. obviously that's not sustainable. so now we need to reverse the trend. >> rose: what's the base of nato respectable russian influence in ukraine. >> i wouldn't act even. >> rose: nothing would be acceptable in terms of russian influence. even though they have a long history. >> why couldn't russia and ukraine live side by side in peace and harmony and let ukraine decide what is the future of their country. it's not for the russians, it's not for us, it's for the ukrainians to decide and we should respect that. >> rose: if they decide they want to be a member of nato. >> yes, of course. >> rose: put in an application and see what happens. >> then we will deal with that as we deal with all other applicant countries. let me remind you by the way, that back in 2008, at the nato summit, we made a decision that ukraine and also georgia will become members of nato for the necessary criteria. >> rose: that was a bad day for vladimir putin. >> yes, i think he didn't like it. and unfortunately, he then invaded georgia in august 2008. >> rose: you said this about him and this may have been when you were prime minute 12ur. you shouldn't under estimate putin's determination. he has clear goal and strategy and clear tactics. to match that you need a firm stance and strong determination. >> yes. i think i said it as prime minister. i haven't changed my mind. >>it there, a strong will and determination. >> yes, both. and better take seriously what mr. putin says, because he has demonstrated that he does what he says. >> rose: nato in your judgment is more relevant than ever. >> yes. it's been relevant all the way through. but now it's become very clear to everybody why we need nato. >> rose: thank you for joining us. more about this program and early episodes visit us on-line at pbs.org and charlierose.com. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org this is "nightly business susie gharib. npup,ñi up and away, the bul run on wall streetc thinningñi blue chip dow index up triple digits, reversing its previous losing streak. and one of the tope1 performers today, walmart as the world's largest retailer takes direct aim at the banks making its big%])t push ever. and sam waxel is back for on for he ise1 planning an 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issue, we fundamentally are against terrorism, clearly against terrorism and if we have the opportunity to combat them we will do so because terrorists threaten everyone, both countries in which the terrorists operate as well as others. >> rose: and we one clude with the secretary of general of nato anders fogh rasmussen. >> it's become clear to everybody why we still need nato. now, we are faced with complete new security situation in the east because of russia's illegal military actions. but you see, you see, i would call it an act of crises surrounding nato. not only to the east but also to the southeast and to the south, even from cyberspace. >> the president of iran and secretary of nato when we continue. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: mr. president, thank you for joining us. >> i also thank you, sir. >> rose: it's a pleasure to see you again. >> i'm also quite gratified to see you after about one year. >> rose: the united states as announced bombing in syria. they notified you beforehand. were you notified? >> this does not mean that the united states of america vis-a-vis its air bombardment informs iran previously or willing for iran. on the sidelines of the nuclear talks in a general fashion, this topic was touched upon and they had a general conversation about it, about the fact that the u.s. said they intends to extend the range of the air bombardments that we have in iraq. nothing precise, nothing that came a day or a few hours prior to this bombardment of syria. >> rose: do you approve of what the united states did? >> what is the meaning? does the united states think that with a few bombardments, we'll be able to destroy terrorism? and make them suffer damages if let's the general thought, then it's incredibly simple thinking that we would be combating terrorism. including the fact that the terrorism has been taking the lines of syrians for the past three years. how come is it that now the united states is thinking about combating them and defeating them? >> rose: i assume because they became alarmed by the success of isis. >> in any fashion, the terrorist groups in syria have attracted many villages, killed an incredibly vast number of people. conquered cities during the last three years and the united states not only did not show any reaction, but sometimes the tone was something that was perhaps encouraging the terrorist activities. >> rose: in fact the president of the united states said the reason they do not support moderate forces was because they feared weapons will fall into the hands of those you describe as terrorists. >> well in any fashion, where did these people obtain the arms and weapons. there were countries that weaponry and came in syria financially and in worse countries that encourage them in their media. all of these supporters must be held to account and be made to answer for the killing that has taken place in syria over the last three years. >> rose: my impression of your argument is that some arab countries will now engage in the fight against isis earlier supported the rise of isis. >> well in any way, sir, you're aware that not only regional countries, some regional countries but also some countries from outside our region were supporting various terrorist groups. the united states herself has given support of them. and these types of support have come in various forms. some financially, some with equipping and some made their country the territory of their nation as the passageway to the field of battle and some encourage them in their domestic media and international media. all of them in one fashion or another encouraged and supported these terrorists. terrorism is always bad, without exception. you cannot say now it's good and another time condemn it. it is always bad and evil. >> rose: why do you think they thought it was good? why would these governments support terrorism? >> unfortunately, in the world of politics, the understanding for some is such that when an objective becomes a paramount importance. for example, the toppling of a certain government becomes of utmost important, then they allow themselves to use any means, any means in order to reach their own objective. whereas these means, these tools can at a later point be used against them. >> rose: you're suggesting that saudi arabia, qatar, turkey supported the terrorists because they wanted to overthrow president beshard al-assad. >> i did not say other countries but you're free to interpret it the way you wish. there are certain countries that with the government were opposed to the government of syria and were under the impression by supporting the terrorists they would succeed in toppling that government. but obviously they were quite wrong in their calculus. >> rose: do you believe the facts now will have the possibility of toppling the assad government in syria? and that is the -- >> we, for the objective of these bombardments, these ariel campaigns are not clear and we do not know. the final objective, the end game for those who carry out the air bombardments, anything can be the objective. in our opinion, if the air bombardments campaign is not within the frame work of international law, it is to be condemned. and assuming that if the objective is such for them to combat terrorists, in a nation, in a country territory without coordination, with the government of that country, at the request of that country, then such action, whatever the intent may be can be considered an attack, an invasion. >> rose: even though it's not an attack against the government of syria. it's attack against people who have been barbaric in their actions. the actions is against them and not the syrian government. and in fact the administration communicated that to the syrian government. >> at some point the syrian government, let's assume they can act. thatbit. the other is a third party, a certain government decides on her own to target certain areas of a nation through ariel bombardment. in any way. without the threat of government, a country, it's quite meaningless for us to enter the country in any way shape or fashion through air bombardments or otherwise. so it is a wrong action. >> rose: even though you have been outspoken in characterizing isis as a threat. you've made it clear that they have to be stopped. you criticize them for even using the name of islam. >> all of that is correct absolutely. this terrorist group is a terrorist group and.,qvá)emely terrorist groups it's extremely savage and barbaric in their conduct, in their action, and inappropriately and wrongly use the name of islam and the fate of muslims in all of their actions unhe equalally, the government and teachings of islam. but that doesn't mean a group in a country conducts various activities another country without coordination and without permission of the central government of the victimized country even their air space, albeit, and carry out an air bombardment campaign. i think this is quite clear for everyone to understand and filmize there's no room for other interpretations. if anyone wishes to carry out any operations, air campaigns or otherwise they need to do so with the permission of the government of that country. >> rose: what are your conditions for iran to be engaged in the battle against isis? what's necessary for iran? >> i spoke of this previously. any country a teeter or group of terrorists are active. if the government of that country formally requests the republic of iran for assistance, we will assist against them those terrorists. >> rose: that is true in terms of your previous relationship with the government fighting in the civil war in syria. because bashar assad is all of the them against the terrorists civil war. >> if we label a group as terrorists, we're not seeking to speak of something that we have doubts about. a group in a country are carrying forward terrorists and barbaric activities, we know they're terrorists. if the government of that country formally requests of us to assist that government against a group of terrorists, we will certainly render that assistance. >> rose: is there possibility here of some kind of grand bargain in which if there is progress in the nuclear talks, you would be more acceptable to participating in the fight against isis? >> we do not connect the two issues. mondmentally the nuclear talks and the fact that we must all of us see progress, tangible progress and resolve issues, we do believe that the resolution of those issuesó benefits all. it benefits the regions as well as the entirety of the world. but outside that nuclear issue, we are fundamentally against terrorism, clearly against terrorism. and if we have the opportunity to gas terrorists we will do so. because terrorists endanger and threaten everyone. both country in which the terrorists operate, as well as others. because terrorism is borderless. it does not remain constant in one country or mobile. it's like a parasite that moves from one region to another. no one can feel as being safe from that parasite, until that parasite, those microbial beings exist in a certain area, we must only concentration on the eradication on those. we can only have peace of mind at a time when terrorism no longer exists and the terrorists no longer can see an environment or atmosphere for their activities. but until such time as there exists a conducive environment for the growth and their expansion, this is an incredibly threatening and dangerous phenomenon, not just for one but multitude of countries and regions. >> rose: why do terrorists invoke the name of islam in their recruitment? >> evil. or the wrong always uses the name of the righteous and enable of the righteous in ordems reah their objectives. no one will say, i'm an oppressor, i am evil be on my side, be with me. if they wish to be able to attract recruits, they will come up with slogans that are desirable. in our region, the faith is quite attractive for the youth of our region. our youth is in love with the islamic culture and the islamic teaching. and some have managed to take advantage of this love and use a mask in order, use a face in order to mask the realities of their being. and on the other hand unfortunately in our region, because of the hegemony in the region, a lot of youth have lost their hope and this hopelessness is a path that makes them more readily available to go toward safe slogan thinking that will be their salvation where as it's not. thinking they can prize from the oppression that they have seen and reach the region of that oppression. it is always like that. some have always managed to take advantage of the righteousness and good. and this group is abusing the name of the faith of islam. >> rose: so the battle has to do not only on the battlefield, not only military but in terms of reaching and debating the world of ideas. >> the root of terrorism must certainly within cultural and social, as well as political frame works, be addressed withie those frame works only. terrorism cannot only be defeated with bombs or weapons. we must ultimately eradicate the bulk of violence from the mind and mind set of the youth. they must be hate so that they do not believe that through violence they can reach objective. which maybe perceived, wrongly perceived in the mind of this youth as holy objective, they cannot be thinking this is the way to reach that objective. we must give them the correct explanation, the correct interpretation from a cultural angle, from social angles, from the eradication of poverty and addressing poverty. a lot of economic issues, economic situations can become fertile ground for violence. therefore if we really want to look at terrorism for what it is, the evil thatnúsñ it is and combat it and eradicate it, we must have an extremely holistic approach to it and approach it from every angle. if we only focus and concentrate on the leaves and different branches of leaves, other than trimming those leaves and branches because the roots are still imbedded in the ground, that real evil will flourish and grow again. down the line we will face the same tree only stronger and more deeply rooted. >> rose: in this context, where do you put the shi'a sunni? >> let's, if you will, the tension between different÷ faith has always been something line up people against one another. always. in our region from the old days it was always the same and everyone knew they said when oppression wanted to enter the region and take advantage of the region's people, the resources, they always seek to do so, they always sought to do so by creating gaps between the different faiths or the sects in the region. so the religious beliefs that in their mind can easily justify lining people against one another. and those who keep speaking about the conflict between shi'a and sunni are certainly fundamentally against both sects. they're not shi'a nor are they sunni. and many certainly believe that a religious culture has no place in society. this is the multitude that has always been used throughout the region, the reality is that both shi'a and sunnis believe in one holy book. and maybe the greatest majority of those thoughts and beliefs are common thoughts and beliefs. >> rose: yet many people view the struggle in the middle east today beyond the struggle against terrorism. as they struggle for influence in the region between two primary powers, iran and saudi arabia. a contest for influence.>> well,a have lived across the water from one another for many centuries. the people from saudi arabia even now, many of them travel to iran every year for pilgrimage and many iranians go for pilgrimage as well. we have neighbors throughout many years of long history have managed to live well next to one another. yet, saudi arabia, sure, could be a regional power. iran could be a regional power. there are other regional powers. absolutely. absolutely. but there are other regional powers. >> rose: turkey? >> surely, surely. turkey in the future. iraq will be a great power in the region. any way, we must live next to each other. even now, the united states is a power, the european union is a power. doesn't mean if there are multitudes of powers, of centers of power, their progress can be realized through the destruction or the weakening of one another. the solution for mutual progress is for countries to collaborate and cooperate and seek to obtain the mutual objective for the progress of not only one another but for the region as a whole. therefore sure, someone could interpret it as iran speaking a regional hegemony that other countries are seeking that regional hegemony. we never thought regional hegemony. we're not seeking nor will we ever. in the past 200 years of our nation we've never attacked or invaded another country. there were countries who were born in an extremely weak analysis next to our borders.wed them, we collaborated with them, next to them. but you saw after the downfall of the soviet union, quite a few small countries to the northern border of our country came into being in existence. we recognize the legitimacy, we've helped and assisted them. we collaborated with them. we must all learn peaceful coexistence with one another. particularly neighbors. towards one another. this is the only way to realize progress, nothing else. >> rose: i think you have suggested there was some progress in relationship with saudi arabia because your foreign minister went and talked to the foreign minister of saudi arabia and you have suggested there's a dialogue there. >> certainly it is so. saudi arabia is our neighbor. we have had very good relationship with them in the past. and now vis-a-vis our mutual objectives, we don't have any particular challenges. perhaps there are differences of opinion vis-a-vis certain regional issues. but whenever conflict of opinion, differences of opinion arise about regional issue, the best way to resolve those is to sit down and talk them out and reach a solution. >> rose: so why don't you sit down with the president of the united states while you're in new york? you know where i'm going? you're seek the prime minister of britain. why not see the president of the united states. talk about what divides you. talk about nuclearation, talk about terrorism. talk about how you can cooperate. talk about your stuff. >> in any ways, between the united states and america, throughout the last 30=y some od years, conflict and tensions have existed, quite a few. you are fully aware of the history of this relationship between the two countries during the last three plus decades. of course one day these difficulties, these challenges must be resolved. i do not believe that between iran andperpetual distance, perl gap and tension. in any way, i do believe that these tensions will come to an end. one day the distances will be shortened. the nation the two people will not allow the gap in perpetuity. but how to defeat these gaps. to resolve the issue and the difficulties. of course now between iran and thedirect talks vis-a-vis the nuclear issue. they are talking to one another. even at the ministerial level. one day, perhaps there will be a need for talks at a higher level. we must interpret at what time under what conditions and in order to reach what objective. what we must accept is that we must look towards the future that encompasses the benefits and the interests of both nations and both people. >> rose: the united states has imposed sanctions against iran. are they effective? are they causing pain? to the iranian citizens? >> in any way, sir, when a country uses illegitimate tools and causes for the delayed receiving of medication by those who are gravely ill, this causes hardship for those who suffer illness because of the lack of medication in their countries. sanctions are extremely oppressive, have been extremely oppressive and unfair. unfairly imposed. and have been quite damaging at a human level, if nothing else. you're fully aware that in, during a period of time, people either did not have access to medicationexorbitantly high prir those medications. could be obtain the tools and the raw materials that they needed because of the sanctions. so all of this in aggregate means that a nation, a people have suffered. but these pressures are also exerted perhaps involuntarily against the source. so it is a double-edged sword. both sides will suffer the pain, for the imposer of the sanctions and for those on whom it is imposed. what is important is that our people did not surrender in the face of these sanctions. for their own rights, they have stood up for their own rights and we've received sanctions as a wrong path to follow and wrong tool to use and the wrong putk÷ between two countries. as you touched upon earlier it is the conversation of table talk and understanding. now do you think ill ill legitt tools. >> rose: why don't you talk to the president of the united states while you're in new york. >> i answered this question. two nations that have suffered many problems between one another and have had very difficulty towards one another. if one day the appropriate foundation hasn't been laid for such a meeting, if the appropriate aim has not been calculated, then it would not be fruitful. so today, the conditions do not dictate such a meeting. we do not want to put on a show. our people do not enjoy or theatre and certainly that is something that the people of the united states. >> rose: nor does the president want to do that. >> therefore, let the time mature. upon during which such talk and such meetings can be fruitful towards resolving problems and issues. >> rose: what does time have to cure? what is it that time will take care of? what is the essence of the conflict? is it nuclear tensions? you say for peaceful uses. they believe for weapons. is it political? >> well, it emanates from this. we can sometimes as humans perhaps we're keen on denying reality. because these3ç realities whene revolution took place in iran and iran succeeded in their own will managing the affairs of their country. and someone who was being managed by the united states was made to meet that country for good, the united states did not want to accept this. or perhaps they thought they could deny the reality or change the reality. or the previous wrong experience through which they toppled the prime minister. they did not fully reach an understanding of the essence of this islamic revolution. so that was the starting point of these tensions of this conflict and we saw during the holy defense war against iraq, the americans did show an acceptable behavior. they backed and supported someone who was an attacker and invader. and everything, you know, what everything else has happened leading us to where we are today, illegal sanctions against the country. these are not fruitful. these create and increase the size of these gaps. we must take action, we must show our goodwill so that these gaps will decrease. if we made a mistake in the past doesn't mean that we need to repeat it. we're not going to repeating our mistakes. when the american politics and the american government takes that position i assure you the positions will change noticeably. which means they will decide to accept their reality of iran, to accept the reality of a nation of iran and accept an unalienable rights of the people of iran. certainly the results of this recent situation will change. >> rose: you believe, the president has said that the nuclear issue as of november 24th i think deadline. he said it's 50/50. what do you think? do you think you will reach an agreement with the unitedhñ stas over nuclear issues by november 24th? >> what i can say is that if the serious will exists in both sides, that certainly this agreement is within reach. from our side, certainly this serious will does exist in order to reach an agreement so that we can resolve and put away the points of contention that exist between the sides today. but the same willingness must exist in the counterparts. we do not leave to chance and say we have been visions in these negotiations or the other sides have been losers. the what if we both say that the only slogan that we chant is that it has to be a win/win situation for all sides involved. so that the rights of all nations are respected. and ultimately, all international rights and laws can be respected, then certainly before the deadline that's remaining ahead of us, we will proceed in resolving this issue. >> rose: then describe your win/win. what is a win/win for the president of iran on nuclearation. >> in my opinion this win/win is quite clear. it is what has been written in international law and agreement. iran has the right to use all available nuclear technology for saw viflian purposes and iran will not be discriminated against in reaching these rights. iran is a signatory to the mpt and must be treated like other countries who are signatories. and if there are any reasons for lack of confidence, we are willing toho erase the reasons r those those that are looking. the condition must be created as a win/win for both sides. so the win means that iran must be victorious in safeguarding every right to use peaceful nuclear energy and technologyand and must be should throughs no deviation from this. >> rose: there will be no nucelaion. but they said they need 100,000 centrifuges. >> what we want is to have the ability to use various sources of energy, meaning having the ability to provide, for our electricity needs through various ways. you do know that now we do have a power plant, you do know that we are in conversations with russia, you do know that we are in talks with russia for new power plants. we do want both in the construction of power plants to reach a point of self sufficiency, to be able to build the nuclear power plant ourselves. as well as providing for our own fuel with self sufficiency. you do know that when a power plant is made operational, perhaps it can function for 50 or 60 years. but three times a year, the fuel needs to be replaced. so three times a year, we do need to provide for new fuel and bring it to the power plants. so we do need to be self sufficient in the arena of providing fuel for our own needs, for at least one installation similar to bouche and the reactors for radio isotopes, we also want to provide for the fuel needed for that. so the calculus between our experts and subject matter experts, it's to be able to provide the fuel needed for an installation such as the one we have in bouche as well as the iran reactor which is used for medical research and nuclear isotope productions. if we can reach these objectives, we will have a need for 190,000, swu. so for those 190 thousand you can say it is the fuel needed toward one power plant. >> rose: do you believe the present attacks against eye cision in syria will be successful. >> do you mean the united states -- >> rose: arab countries. with the support of the free syrian army. that's the strategy. >> it is not clear for us. what they're speaking. whether they're under the pressure of their own domestic public opinions and want to put on a show, a theatre for public consumption, or they're after a tangible, a real objective in the region, it is not crystal clear for us. but what i can tell you unequivocally, no terrorists can be eradicated and destroyed through ariel bombardment only. >> rose: no one believes that. no one believes that. the united states doesn't believe that, the arab countries don't believe that that are supporting the united states. they understand that. that's why they're focusing on the training of the free syrian army. syrian. to combat the terrorists in their own country. >> so in other words, they want to put more fuel on the existing fire. >> rose: no. they wantedfd to destroy the terrorists. >> this is not the way, sir. the way to combat terrorism, sir, is not for us to give birth to another terrorist group in order to stand up against an existing terrorist group. these are the theories of mistakes that have composed the ridges of the chain that have taken us from where we were to where we are today. we must accept the reality. we cannot organize armed groups of fighters in order to reach our objective. thus far, they were sadly mistaken, those who equipped and trained these terrorist groups. and the same will be repeated if they seek to do the same thing. from this point on, i do thank you very much, i do wish you continued health. at the very least i do hope i was able to answer some of the questions you had in mind. thank you so much and god bless you. >> rose: thank you very much, mr. president. >> rose: let's talk first about what everybody saw in that in terms of a conflict with isis. how do you see the strategy of the president and the strategy of those in the region and people who were on the gulf council and the people who have tried to come together with a coalition. is that coalition building. >> yes, indeed. i really welcome the american initiative to build such coalition. it's high time to take military action to stop the advance of isis. the so-called islamic state, which is neither islamic nor a state. it's a terrorist organization that poses3m a threat not only o iran but to the whole world. >> rose: i do want to talk about that but i want to go to ukraine and the threat there. the president seems to have made it clear that if in fact russia or president putin decided to move on a nato in any way in the baltic, there will be a response and that he should clearly understand it. >> yes, indeed. that was a very clear message from the nato summit. we adopted what we call a readiness action plan which will mean more visible nato presence in the east. so the russians know that if they were to attack an ally, they would meet not only troops from that specific ally but they would meet nato. >> rose: what about ukraine which is not a member of nato. what is necessary there to send a signal? >> obviously there is a clear difference being a member of nato or not being a nato. if you are a member it means if there's an attack one will be considered an attack on all. so members of nato are covered by this collective defense and solidarity clause. if you're not a member of nato, you're not covered by that clause. however, we have decided to step up our military cooperation with ukraine at the summit. we took positions that will help ukraine and their own capability to defend themselves. >> rose: what do they need to build that capability. >> what anyway though can provide is defense capacity building in form ofv9 training activities, advice, assistance, defense reforms. we will invite them to participate more intensively in nato exercises that will help modernize the military, build their capacity. >> rose: i heard recently two responses about where putin is. one is he got beyond a place where he wanted to be that it was a reactive measure by him and that he doesn't like the hand he's playing. the other is that in fact it is exactly what he wants to do, that it is part of something that has concerned him for a long time is that russia needs to be surrounded by a barrier. >> i have no doubt that putin's am basic is to reestablish a sphere of russian influence in the near neighborhoods, in the form of soviet space. >> rose: as a defensive measure. >> yes, both, i would say. but also to present countries in russia's new neighborhood to seek integration with nato and the european union. and it is in russia's interest to fuel protractive conflicts in the region. so this goes actually beyond ukraine. it goes beyond eastern ukraine. it's also in maldo vavment, because russia calculates as long as these countries are under served, nato and the european union will be reluctant to import such countries into our organization.to so these countries serve his interest. >> rose: do you think he felt weakness in reactions. >> i think we have demonstrated unity and cohesion. you have seen what i would call an unprecedented unity between the european union, the u.s., nato, g7. i think we have sent a very clear message. having said that, no doubt that putin counts a western reluctance to really control him. so i have no doubt that continued russian destabilization of ukraine should be met by broader and tougher economic sanctions. >> rose: you also believe that there is a political solution, do you not? >> yes, but i think the only sustainable long term solution is political solution, there's no military. >> rose: what would be the outlines of that? >> well, first of all let me stress, that it's for the ukrainians to decide the long term solution without outside interference. in that respect, i welcome that president poroshenko to reform the ukrainian society with a view to decentralize powers and gives more influence to the region as requested by some of the eastern regions. so i think recurrent political leadership in kiev to find a peaceful and political solution. >> rose: do you think putin is prepared for that or do wetc has to be coerced into that by sanctions. >> putin plays a double game. on the one hand occasionally accommodating statements and actions, sometimes you see withdrawal of russian troops. then afterwards, you see a build up of russian troops. all with the aim to confuse the public in western countries. and also whenever we have meetings or going to have meetings that could, that could result in sanctions, then putin makes some moves. so it's all a game. so while issuing accommodating statements then with the other hands, they continue destabilizing ukraine. >> rose: in the game -- >> not really forward. it's really i am very much concerned. this is really dramatically typical situation in europe. we have spent more than 20 years to build a constructive partnership with rush since the end of the cold war. i would say we have a generation obligation to try and use the new situation after the cold war to build constructive relationship with russia. but clearly today russia considers us not a partner but adversary and of course we have to adapt to that. >> rose: you're adapting to that. >> it's a force that can be deployed rapidly, within a very few days. it can beáñ deployed to an ally that has been attacked or threatened by a potential aggressor. in order to be able to receive such reinforcement quickly, we would have to prepare facilities. so pre positioned equipment and supplies, prepare necessary infrastructure including bases and ports. so you will see more visible nato presence in these. >> rose: has the crises reminded us why nato was created in the first place? because there was a sense before this crises what's nato do? and all of a sudden there's almost a demand that nato shows what it's about. >> the question has changed from why nato. >> rose: exactly. >> i think it has become very clear why we still need nato. now, we are faced with completely new security situation in the east because of russia's illegal military actions. but you see, you see i will call it an arc of crises surrounding nato not only to the east but also to the southeast and even from cyberspace. and so for all these, we need a very strong collective system. and this is also reason why we need to invest more in security defense. during the last five year the russians have increased their defense spending by 50%!ñ while nato allies have decreased spending by 20%. obviously that's not sustainable. so now we need to reverse the trend. >> rose: what's the base of nato respectable russian influence in ukraine. >> i wouldn't act even. >> rose: nothing would be acceptable in terms of russian influence. even though they have a long history. >> why couldn't russia and ukraine live side by side in peace and harmony and let ukraine decide what is the future of their country. it's not for the russians, it's not for us, it's for the ukrainians to decide and we should respect that. >> rose: if they decide they want to be a member of nato. >> yes, of course. >> rose: put in an application and see what happens. >> then we will deal with that as we deal with all other applicant countries. let me remind you by the way, that back in 2008, at the nato summit, we made a decision that ukraine and also georgia will become members of nato for the necessary criteria. >> rose: that was a bad day for vladimir putin. >> yes, i think he didn't like it. and unfortunately, he then invaded georgia in august 2008. >> rose: you said this about him and this may have been when you were prime minute 12ur. you shouldn't under estimate putin's determination. he has clear goal and strategy and clear tactics. to match that you need a firm stance and strong determination. >> yes. i think i said it as prime minister. i haven't changed my mind. >>it there, a strong will and determination. >> yes, both. and better take seriously what mr. putin says, because he has demonstrated that he does what he says. >> rose: nato in your judgment is more relevant than ever. >> yes. it's been relevant all the way through. but now it's become very clear to everybody why we need nato. >> rose: thank you for joining us. more about this program and early episodes visit us on-line at pbs.org and charlierose.com. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org the following kqed production was produced in high definition. ♪ calories, calories, calories! >> wow, it rocked my world! >> it just kind of reminded me of boot camp. >> i don't know what you had, but this is great! >> it almost felt like sort of country club food to me. >> don't touch it. it's hot! >> i gotta tell you, yo
>> i've been around long enough to recognize the people who are out there owning it. the ones getting involved, staying engaged. they are not afraid to question the path they're on. because the one question they never want to ask is, "how did i end up here?" i started schwab with those people. people who want to take ownership of their investments, like they do in every other aspect of their lives. >> supported by the john d. and catherine t. macarthur foundation. committed to building a more just, verdant and peaceful world. more information at macfound.org >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions and... >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> ifill: secretary of state john kerry returned to afghanistan today, in an urgent bid to end the deadlock over the presidential election. in kabul, he pressed the two candidates, abdullah abdullah and ashraf ghani, to accept results from an ongoing audit of votes from the june runoff. the u.s. wants a national unity government formed by next month. all u.s. combat forces are due to leave afghanistan by year's end. >> woodruff: meanwhile, the body of u.s. army major general harold greene arrived back in the u.s. he was killed this week by an afghan soldier outside kabul. troops carried the flag-draped metal case off a c-17 cargo plane at dover air force base in delaware. the general's family and officials, including army chief of staff, general ray ordierno, were on hand. >> ifill: this was the final day of a 72-hour truce between israel and hamas with negotiations continuing in egypt for a longer cease-fire. in gaza, several thousand palestinians marched in support of hamas. a spokesman for the militants insisted there can be no peace until the blockade of gaza is lifted. >> ( translated ): the talks in cairo are going on and we are still waiting to hear the answers. we have fair and legal demands and the israeli occupation has no choice except to respond to our demands. there will be no cease-fire and the enemy will not live in security while palestinians aren't living in real security. >> ifill: in turn, israeli officials have said hamas must disarm first before the blockade can end. >> woodruff: in cambodia, two of the last leaders of the khmer rouge reign of terror were convicted today of crimes against humanity. the fanatical communist movement killed nearly two million people in the late 1970's. a quarter of the population. 83-year old khieu samphan and 88-year-old nuon chea remained stoic today as the verdict was read. they were sentenced to life in prison by a u.n.-backed tribunal. >> ( translated ): this verdict cannot turn back time or the lives of those who died or were killed under the sun's heat, overworked, starved. this verdict will also not reunite the families who have been separated due to their however, this verdict can provide some justice and restore the respect of victims. >> woodruff: the khmer rouge's supreme leader, pol pot, was never tried, and died in 1998. >> ifill: the russian government has granted permission to edward snowden to remain in russia for three more years. his one-year asylum expired august first. snowden faces espionage charges in the u.s. for leaking extensive records on surveillance by the national security agency. >> woodruff: back in this country, a jury in detroit convicted a white homeowner today of killing an unarmed black teenager on his front porch, last november. theodore wafer fired a shotgun at renisha mcbride, after she knocked at his door, early in the morning. he said he thought it was a break-in. prosecutors said mcbride was drunk and had wrecked her car and was looking for help. the case sparked comparisons to the trayvon martin killing in florida. >> ifill: hawaii is bracing for hurricane iselles arrival tonight, the first direct hit on the state in more than 20 years. the storm could arrive with winds of 85 miles an hour and heavy rain, but governor neil abercrombie counseled residents and tourists today not to panic. >> we all have to have confidence in one another. and i want to assure the public that from the point of view of those that you have appointed, who have the jurisdiction, who have the responsibility, we're ready. and if we all work together we're going to come through this in very fine fashion. >> ifill: a second hurricane is also headed toward hawaii, but is still several days away. and if that weren't enough, a moderate earthquake jolted the area today. there were no reports of damage. >> woodruff: president obama has signed a bill to help veterans who've endured long waits for health care. the ceremony today, at fort belvoir, virginia, involved a $16 billion measure. it will pay for hiring thousands more v.a. doctors and nurses, and for vets to see private doctors in some cases. the new law also makes it easier to fire senior v.a. officials for poor performance. >> ifill: the top conferences in college sports moved a big step closer to making their own rules on everything from scholarships to recruiting. the n.c.a.a. governing board voted to let the five richest conferences make unilateral changes in some longstanding rules. the new system could take effect in january unless other schools combine to vote down the changes. >> woodruff: on wall street today, the dow jones industrial average lost 75 points to close at 16,368; the nasdaq fell 20 points to close below 4,335; and the s&p 500 slipped ten to finish at 1,909. >> ifill: also ahead on the newshour, the obama administration considers military options to support refugees fleeing islamic militants in iraq. russia bans western food imports for one year. reevaluating crime and punishment in america's jails and prisons. and the legacy of watergate, 40 years after president richard nixon resigned. >> woodruff: as the humanitarian situation grows dimmer by the hour for some in northern iraq, the white house is now considering taking military action against sunni extremists inside the country. hari sreenivasan reports. >> any sort of military action that would be taken in iraq would be very limited in scope. >> reporter: that was the official word at the white house, amid reports that president obama is considering air strikes against the islamic state group. the sunni extremists have renewed their surge across northern iraq. capturing more villages and seizing the country's largest dam today. their advance has sent thousands of christians and yazidis fleeing in the face of ultimatums to convert to islam, pay heavy fines or face death. the yazidis, who adhere to their own ancient religion, left their town of sinjar, and many have been trapped in nearby mountains without food. white house spokesman josh earnest calls the situation a catastrophe. >> the humanitarian situation is deeply disturbing there, and it's one that we are following closely. that said, it's important for everyone to understand and the president's made this clear that there are no american military solutions to the problems in iraq. we can't solve these problems for them. >> reporter: meanwhile, the u.n. has begun sheltering hundreds of yazidis, and others have streamed across the turkish border. but at least 40 children have already died from dehydration. >> ( translated ): what we want is to just rescue these people from the danger zone. we don't want anything else. we don't want money, we don't want cars, we don't want donations, we don't want food, we don't want anything. if they don't get water and food to those trapped or get them out, it will be a disaster. >> reporter: for more on what the white house is considering on iraq i'm joined by karen deyoung who is reporting on the story for the "washington post." >> i'm hearing that that's not true. i think that the pentagon and the central command that will be running this operation if and when it's approved is still waiting for the president to sign off on any activity at all either humanitarian or any air strikes. >> sreenivasan: we also had heard the administration say today that any military action would o only be if it was in lie with core american objectives. what is that rationale now? >> well, eng that they would say that humanitarian assistance and preventing the actual fall of iraq or further gains by the islamists certainly toward baghdad would not be in american interest so that would be a pretty broadly-defined definition of american interests. i think that these encroachment into kurdish territory have sort of changed the equation very quickly, literally overnight for the united states. they were prepared to allow the situation to stand as it has been for the past couple of weeks while the iraqi government tried to form a new administration that can reach out to minorities there, but having the islamist forces move into kurdistan, which has been relatively peaceful throughout this crisis, i think has changed the situation considerably. >> sreenivasan: but was there a tipple point event that they describe considering that the is islamic state group has been on a fairly aggressive march for the last month? >> i think they were fairly confident the kurdish military forces could hold the line in kurdistan and they also didn't think the islamist forces had indicated they were interested at this point in moving into kurdistan, but the fact that literally tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of iraqis from places that have already been taken over by the militants have poured into kurdistan, and the fact that, all of a sudden this week, the islamists have actually started attacking kurdish towns and cities i think, again, has made them sit up and say, whoa, this -- you know, this cannot stand. again. yo, you have to remember thatins one of the two american fusion centers, the communication centers that the u.s. forces that president obama has sent there to assist the iraqis is located, the other one is in baghdad. islamist forces are now about 40 miles away from there. >> sreenivasan: what's the debate in the white house now? what's being considered? >> i don't know that there is a strong debate at this point. i think the question is certainly whether or not air strikes could help or harm the situation and if this is the moment that this action that's been so strongly resisted by the administration up until now can actually make a difference without making the situation worse. i think the decision has pretty much been made on the humanitarian aid drops which is a separate operation. there was some effort today to open a corridor to evacuate these people who, as you described, are on the mountain top. as far as i know, that has not worked because the islamists have been shelling that evacuation and these people are stuck there with no food, water and no shelter. >> sreenivasan: would this humanitarian aid be limited to this specific zone? >> that's not clear to me, although that would certainly be the initial place. you know, the iraqi government has tried to develop some assistance to these people. didn't workut too well. they had crates of water which cracked apart when they hit the ground. you know, the united states has a lot of experience doing this and experience in this particular area doing it. you remember in 1991 there were similar air drops by u.s. forces. this was when the rest of iraq was controlled by saddam hussein. but at that time united states send groups into kurdistan to wall off the area from saddam hussein's forces. i don't think that's been contemplated now. but i think the humanitarian assistance is something that they'll likely do and do fairly soon and it would start in this area. >> sreenivasan: karen deyoung of "the washington post," thank you so much. >> you're welcome. >> ifill: russia formally banned imports of agricultural products from the u.s. and europe today. even as nato sounded new warnings about moscow's military moves. chief foreign affairs correspondent margaret warner begins our coverage. >> reporter: foreign foods that have lined the shelves of russia's grocery stores will be disappearing. for a year, effective immediately, imports of fruit, vegetables, meat, fish, poultry and dairy are banned from the u.s., european union, australia, canada and norway. all those countries have imposed sanctions penalizing russia, for backing rebels in eastern ukraine. russian prime minister dmitry medvedev said today that moscow is answering in kind. >> ( translated ): all the measures have a solely retaliatory character. we didn't want such a development of events. we sincerely hope that our partners economic pragmatism will prevail over petty political reasons, and they will think, and not try to frighten and limit russia. >> reporter: notwithstanding the kremlin's defiance, president obama argues russia is hurting. he spoke at a washington news conference last night. >> sanctions are working as intended in putting enormous pressure and strain on the russian economy. the economy has ground to a halt. somewhere between $100 billion and $200 billion of capital flight has taken place. >> reporter: what's more, u.s. officials said today, russia is, in effect, imposing sanctions on its own people, by banning the main sources of imports that account for one-quarter of food consumption in russia and a much higher percentage in the major cities. today, a top u.s. treasury official left open the possibility of more u.s. sanctions if russia does not re- think its actions toward ukraine. but there's little sign of that. instead, nato now estimates 20,000 russian troops have massed near the border and says they could be getting ready to invade under the guise of a humanitarian mission. just this week, in fact, russia called a session of the u.n. security council to discuss the humanitarian situation in ukraine. nato secretary general anders fogh rasmussen issued a new warning today, as he met with ukrainian leaders in kiev. >> i call on russia to step back from the brink, step back from the border. do not use peacekeeping as an excuse for war-making. >> reporter: poland's prime minister issued a similar warning yesterday, saying the threat of direct russian intervention is certainly greater than it was a few days ago. meanwhile, inside ukraine, government forces have stepped up pressure on the rebels, with intensive new shelling in their stronghold city of donetsk. amid the fighting, a eastern ukrainian native replaced the russian national, aleksander borodai, as leader of the separatists there. >> ifill: and margaret joins me now. what was the official response of the administration to this new sanction? >> interestingly, they didn't seem terribly phased by this. they expected some retaliatory action. the u.s. on an economic level, they did not consider this particularly damaging to u.s. companies. they do take it as a sign that putin is not backing down, however, politically, but mostly officials i talked to said they thought it was really misguided and self-defeated and they may be whistling at the graveyard as we say, but one of the things that russian citizens got at the end of the cold war and the collapse of the soviet union was the freedom and the travel and having western domestic goods and he could have cranky constituency. >> ifill: how much do our goods there constitute our trade? >> not much. looking the figure up -- first of all, u.s.-russia trade last year was only, like, $38 billion total, only $11 billion of experts which only $1.2 billion of that is food. the biggest item is poultry and they're called bush legs named for george h.w. bush who negotiated a deal with gorbachev in the '90seto in the form of aid to give them the chicken legs which apparently american consumers don't like as well as they like chicken breasts now and it's grown into this multi-million-dollar business, but actually reading from the quote from the georgia poultry export association, they said, well, we got so tired of the russians jerking us around, it used to be 40% of our poultry exports went to russia, now it's only 7% last year. his point was u.s. exporters have diversified so it's not a huge hit. >> ifill: all along in the sanction debate there has been question about the difference in the u.s. and europe. europe watched this today and did they think, oh, no, we're next? >> they put out a statement that it was $15 billion of exports last year into russia. i talked to a senior official who said, however, even in the last couple of years, the percentage of our trade with russia has been going down in part because russia economically has been hurting. so german exports were down 5%, and then 10%, and they are mostly things like autos that aren't affected by this. but other european countries who are heavily dependent on agriculture exports, it will hurt. >> ifill: somine countries were slow to get on the sanctions bandwagon. buzz this shake them at all? >> that's why i talked particularly to the germans because merkel was seemingly reluctant and was the one who finally brought people along. the downing of the airliner, i think i said the last time we discussed this, was really a game changer in the minds of the europeans, the downing of the airliner and the way the bodies were treated. u.s. officials said the same thing that they have gotten no indication of weakening e.u. resolve. >> ifill: we saw today that they decided to extend edward snowden's stay for three years and digs along the way. is this another one? >> the sanctions, bans and snowden. i asked a u.s. official if the snowden matter was related. russia signed a memorandum with iran to buy crude, which is another tweak. president obama and president putin talked by phone last friday and agreed sanctions were counterproductive and need add political solution but there is no sign of backchannel negotiations on either side, i'm told. >> ifill: we're also watching russian troops along the border of ukraine. they're still there, don't seem like they're going anywhere. is it more tense? >> it is, even more so along the border. ukrainian officials who i talked to today who always believed putin may well invade said, look, even the troop levels don't matter as they built the infrastructure, so they have military hospitals, the depots and the weapons, he said they could move in 10,000, 20,000 more troops virtually overnight, certainly within a matter of days. this official also was very concerned that ukrainian forces are not making the gains we're all reading they are. he said, a week ago we were still picking one, two, or three towns a day. by now there's a stalemate and the separatists are kind of localized in countries and luhansk. the question is how does ukraine actually take the cities and are afraid they will set up an israel-gaza scenario as one described to me where it looks like ukrainians are killing civilians. >> ifill: what about settlement? >> it's looking weak. uu.s. officials say in public or private they get the same kind of reaction from the russian, he said it's like cold war days. and ukrainian officials say there are splits in the ukrainian government which are also getting in the way of this. >> ifill: margaret warner, thank you very much. >> my pleasure, gwen. >> woodruff: now, a look at how we punish people in the united states, and how that might be changing. jeffrey brown has that story. >> reporter: across the u.s., as inmate populations keep growing. calls to address prison crowding, conditions and other problems continue to be heard. just this week, the justice department issued a scathing report on abuse of teenage inmates at new york's riker's island. it spoke of "a culture of violence" that encouraged beatings and excessive use of solitary confinement. in california, state officials are under federal court orders aimed at reducing severe overcrowding of prisons. and u.s. attorney general eric holder is pushing to shorten prison terms for many non- violent offenders. on the newshour recently, he cited a fundamental unfairness in drug sentencing. >> if you are basing a sentence on something other than the conduct of the person who was involved, and the person's record, if you're looking, for instance, at factors of what educational level the person has received, what neighborhood the person comes from... >> ifill: to be clear, some states are doing that already. >> ...they are, right. and using that as a predictor, though, of how likely this person, this individual, is going to be a recidivist. i'm not at all certain i'm comfortable with that. >> reporter: the concerns have sparked bi-partisan efforts. in the senate, republican rand paul of kentucky and democratic senator corey booker of new jersey are focused on several issues, including drugs and racial disparities in prison. >> there are still some naysayers, but i think the public at large is saying, well, you know, we're not so sure drugs are right for people, but we are thinking that maybe we should rehabilitate people, that people, particularly kids, deserve a second chance. when they make mistakes, let's get them back into society and working, which makes them less likely to go back into drugs. >> reporter: still it's unclear if or when congress might take action. so is the ground shifting on criminal justice issues? we look across the spectrum at problems and solutions with: bryan stevenson, a longtime public interest lawyer, and founder the equal justice initiative, an alabama-based non-profit focused on social justice and human rights. pat nolan is the former republican leader of the california state assembly. he's now the director of the center for criminal justice reform at the american conservative union foundation. and bill mccollum is the former attorney general of florida, now a lawyer in private practice. bryan stevenson, as someone working with inmates and looking at the criminal justice system, how would you define the problem that most needs addressing? well, i think it's overincarceration. we have the highest rate of incarceration in the world. prison population has grown from 300,000 in the '70s to 2.4 million today and we have been locked into what i call the politics of fear and anger and not made good decisions about criminal justice, sentencing, prisons, and i think getting out of that is the real challenge. >> brown: pat nolan, you're coming from a conservative perspective. how do you identify the problem? i think we've over-incarcerated. we have people who are very dangerous and need to be separated from the population, but you can overuse a thing and i think we've incarcerated people we're not afraid of, just mad at. >> brown: you mean the wrong people are in jail? >> they need sanction bus they don't need to be locked up, they don't pose a physical threat to the public. >> brown: bill mccollum, what doesn't work and what do you want to keep? >> there are problems with overcrowding and problems with sentences that are too mandatory. but the biggest problem is the recidivism rate. we return a lot to have the folks to prison again and again. they're conflicted as a felony, and then when they go back out on the streets, we don't provide them with a job ty can keep. so we need to address all the problems, not just overcrowding or sentencing, it's a whole combination in the prison system. >> brown: try to make it more concrete. let me start with you bryan stevenson. give us an example of a reform or something happening around the country tha that you would e to see to address some of the problems you see. >> to pick up on what mr. bill mccollum said, i agree with that. most people sent to prison are from low-level, nonviolent offenses and then most we sent back because we don't have services. we want to eliminate sending people back to prison for technical violations of probation or parole and that's the kind of reform that has really reduced overcrowding in some places. i think ending some of these mandatory sentences for drug crimes and low-level non-violent crimes can have a huge impact. in shifting the funding, we went from $6 billion in prison spending in eight 1980 to $80 bn a today and if we spend more of that money on support and rehabilitation, we can keep people out of prison for a long time. >> brown: want to pick up on that? >> i agree with bryan stevenson and bill mccollum. there are 29 million people in prison for drugs. if people aren't prepared to be productive when they get out, to hold a job and support themselves and their family, we're risking more problems. the hope program hawaii started, the folks that right before the judge started as a federal prosecutor, he said we take rules seriously and when you break them, we'll hold you accountable. we'll not send you to written six years. 48 hours, you can think over what you've done and come back and you have a chance to get back in drug treatment, stay clean. it resulted in 50% lower crime rate among those going through his court, 68% fewer missed appointments with the probation officer and i think 66% fewer dirty drug tests. so it's saving money, they aren't having to take up beds in prison but it's holding them accountable. we need to follow these guys and make sure they're staying on the straight and narrow and not doing something bad again. >> brown: bill mccollum, do you have an example you want to give us that addresses the problem you mentioned? >> i served o as the attorney general on the clemency board in florida and i saw our cases come up regularly and despite the fact i aree if you have a simple possession you shouldn't be incarcerated for an extended period of time. most cases were not simple possession of drugs, they were other crimes, not always violent. but if yohave a large enough quantity and dealing in drugs you caught to have a mandatory minimum sentence in my opinion. maybe these sentences sometimes are too long but we need to deal and i think it's is a serious problem where the criminals are going to be there even after we address the overcrowding for the minor possession issue and change some of the laws maybe on diverting a few people but cause, the majority i think of the states are not there for the crimes that we're talking about, they're for more serious matters and we need to address the rehab and what we do twheez prisoners, these return prisoners, repeat offenders. >> brown: just listening, mr. mccolumn, are you worried the idea of reform can do too far? >> yes, i am. i'm worried when i was on the committee in congress and chaired it for a while i know judges oppose any idea of sentencing guidelines that kept their hands tied especially minimum mandatory sentences and we have gone too far with minimum mandatories but there's a place for that, there's a place for jeb bush's 10, 20, life when you have repeat offenders and they commit certain types of fennelies again and again. so i'm worried the move the to release prisoners and reduce sentences to minimum mandatories will take it opposite direction and go too far. >> brown: bryan stevenson, response? >> i'm not so worried about that. we had 300,000 people in prison in the early 1970s. the violent crime in most places is about where i have to in the '60s when we had a dramatically smaller prison population. i agree we have to focus on people who are threats to public safety, we have to get them out of society and protect the pub public, but we have tens of thousands who are not in that category. if we treat drug dependency as a health problem, i think we can provide better services, keep people out of jails or prisons and not in any way undermine public safety. we've got a lot of space to operate, unfortunately, to reduce our prison population without increas increasing threo public safety. >> where is this as a political matter? the question i asked at the top, has the ground shifted? >> yeah, it's been very interesting. in the last several years, many conservative leaders across the country are working to implement policies to get the most public safety per dollar. we have been stingy with other parts of government and have quite frankly turned a blind eye to corrections and instead saying are we getting enough public safety? so texas led the way by changing the laws so they didn't incarcerate those at the low level of the spectrum, they lowered the amount spent but just didn't put it back in the budget, they put it in the program like bill mccollum talked about, job training, drug treatment, mental health care. sith saved the money and the lives of the low-level offenders and put it into things or into rehabilitation. the key thing is they've saved over $3 billion and the crime rate is the lowest it's been since 1968. >> brown: and bill mccollum, just in our last minute here, do you see the political ground shifting and where is the public in all of this? >> well, i think the public sees the crime rate down now and it's swinging more towards looseness and letting more people out and doing more diversion and drug treatment. that's not all bad. i'm worried they not go too far. punishment is part of the system we have of deterrence. that's how you deter crime. so even if you don't have a violent crime, there are crimes out there that need to get certainty in the punishment and we need to have them in prison. i just think we have to be careful when we talk about them not to put too many in that category. small drug offenders, possession, yes, that could be diverted, major crimes in theft and criminal behavior and other cases major drug traffickers, no. >> brown: big subject to be continued. bryan stevenson, pat nolan, bill mccollum, thank you all very much. >> thank you. >> woodruff: tomorrow marks the 40th anniversary of the end of richard nixon's presidency, an occasion to look back at a man, and a moment, that changed the country. >> therefore, i shall resign the presidency effective at noon tomorrow. >> woodruff: on the evening of august 8th 1974 from the oval office president richard nixon announced his resignation. this after a two-year-long saga that became known as the watergate scandal. on june 17th 1972, five men who had been hired by the committee to re-elect the president were arrested trying to bug the offices of the democratic national committee in the watergate complex. it was one part of a large clandestine effort to ensure nixon's re-election. that fall he won by a landslide, beating senator george mcgovern by nearly 18 million votes. but investigations into the watergate break-in continued eventually tying the white house to the burglary. in february 1973, a senate committee began to look into the president's connection to the watergate break-in and the subsequent cover-up. that may, the special panel began hearings which lasted nine months. some members of president nixon's own administration testified against him, including former white house counsel john dean who said there had been a coverup, one he had discussed with the president. >> i began by telling the president that there was a cancer growing on the presidency and if the cancer was not removed, the president himself would be killed by it. >> woodruff: and former white house aide, alexander butterfield, confirmed the existence of audio tapes on which the president had recorded all telephone calls and conversations in the oval office since 1971. >> were you aware of any devices installed in the executive office building office of the president?" >> yes sir. >> woodruff: after the hearings, democrats, commentators and even members of his own party called for the president to resign. but he resisted, with comments like this at a news conference in march of '74. >> it perhaps would be an act of courage to resign. i should also point out, however, that while it might be an act of courage to run away from a job that you were elected to do, it also takes courage to stand and fight for what you believe is right, and that is what i intend to do. >> woodruff: the president also refused to turn over the oval office tapes, until on july 24th, the supreme court ordered their release. three days later, the house judiciary committee voted along bipartisan lines to approve articles of impeachment, charging the president with obstruction of justice and abuse of power. he continued to proclaim his innocence, until a group of republican congressional leaders told him he could not survive votes in either house, at which time, he finally decided to step down: >> sometimes i have succeeded and sometimes i have failed. >> woodruff: the next day- richard nixon departed the white house, becoming the only american president to resign the office. and we take this moment to look back at someone who had a profound effect on our nation. joining us for that is: beverly gage, professor of 20th century american history at yale university. presidential historian timothy naftali, former director of the richard nixon presidential library and museum. now head of the taminent library and robert f. wagner archives at new york university. pat buchanan, who served as a senior advisor in the nixon white house, and author of the book "the greatest comeback: how richard nixon rose from defeat to create the new majority." and luke nichter, co-author, with douglas brinkley, of the "the nixon tapes," a compilation of key conversations recorded by the president's secret white house taping system. and we welcome you all to the "newshour". pat buchanan as someone who knew richard nixon very well, why do you think it's important that we look back at him and his presidency? >> well, certainly, when you mention the watergate scandal, it was the biggest scandal in the american political history that brought down his presidency. bill clinton was impeached but he survived that. nixon's presidency is extraordinary because when you look at his first term and second term, i think you would find him most consequential of presidents. arms control of the soviet union, ended the draft, desegregated the south, had enacted 18-year-old vote, e.p.a., osha, the cancer institute. so he was an enormously consequential president and it's my and others' view that he stood down and i think in his second term he would have been a near greatest +*79 but i think his second term was a failure. >> pat buchanan raises the point. we're still trying to digest this 40 years later. >> ten years ago, i started working on the tapes and i know it now that when you add all the watergate and abuse of government power we call it material on tapes, it's only about 5 to 7% of the total tapes, yet these 5 to 7% have created almost 100% of our impression of the man and his presidency. >> woodruff: but when you look at this, there's still a fascination with richard nixon. why is that? >> we still have 700 to 800 hours of tapes that have not been released so we're already drowning in tapes and we still have a lot more to learn. i teach 18 to 20-year-olds who, for them, richard nixon is an ancient as the american civil war. they don't even have a great living memory of 9/11. they want to learn something other than watergate. >> woodruff: beverly gage, you talked to us about he was a part of a series of things that happened in this country in the late '60s and '70s. expand on that. >> you have to see watergate as a series of crises in the american government and watergate is one of the most dramatic of them but it comes in the context of a huge struggle in vietnam, over seek riover vietnam, over the ways the intelligence establishment had been treating anti-war protesters at home, it comes in the midst of real turmoil, certainly of civil rights in the united states, a breakdown in some ways of democracy at the democratic national convention and, so, watergate became of sort of a place where all of these contests came together and where i think played out in watergate. in addition to playing out, to produce richard nixon himself. >> woodruff: timothy naftali, is that one reason we remain so fascinated by him? >> we remain fascinate by him because on the one hand he was brilliant. he was also a political icon in this country for 50 years and, at the same time, he remains the only president to resign. those two years from the moment that the break-in occurred at the watergate until the time he resigned, richard nixon fought with the truth and, ultimately, the american people and all three branches of government learned he had been lying all along. by overstepping his bounds, richard nixon tested our constitutional structure. what happened 40 years ago this week was that the u.s. constitutional structure showed that it could last and was flexible enough to deal with the president who had exceeded his constitutional bounds. as beverly intimated, this really was the high point of the imperial presidency. from this point on, congress and the supreme court would be taking measurers, putting them in place to reduce to some extent executive authority. richard nixon is shakespearean because he was so full of power, so full of darkness, so full of ambition that he tested our constitutional structure and reshaped it in a way that i'm sure he regretted, but in a way that's been helpful to all americans. >> woodruff: shakespearean, pat buchanan? >> they're taking wiretaps and things and all that was cord up. the question is excellent. why is there such a fascination? richard nixon was a national figure in 1947. i don't know what grade i was in. he was in the whole mccarthy truman era. he loses to j.f.k., loses in california, says goodbye i'm out of politics, manages the greatest comeback in american political history. because of the frankly indecisiveness in watergate not to step up and say our guys did it, i didn't know about it. the prime minister said he's got to be a good butcher and he was not aood butcher. >> woodruff: pat, you've reduced watergate just to a break-in and the coverup to the break-in. watergate turned out to be abused of power well documented by the case. only 202 hours but those are startling and dramatic and very troubling 202 hours. the president applied to the domestic realm the kinds of activities that we associate with foreign covert action. he tinted mind doing whatever -- he didn't mind doing whatever was necessary to hurt his political enemy. >> "washington post" hero, mark felt in charge of jobs for hoover, a corrupt phish agent, stealing secrets out of the grand jury, turning them over to reporters the fruits of his crimes to bring down a president. this was a tougher ray. i was offered the headship of the plumbers and i went over and looked at these cowboys and said i don't think i want to do this job, but some stupid idiot went into ginsburg's psychiatry office for what purpose i don't know but nixon didn't know it. >> woodruff: we're not going to resolve so much of this but we'll keep on trying. i am interested, luke nichter, and after listening to 3,000 hours of the tapes, what more did you learn about this man? we think we know everything but you learned more. >> i think what i've come away with, i think, a deeper appreciation for both his good traits and his faults. i say let's give nixon credit where credit is due and let's continue to criticize where we think criticism is due. if it's clear with this discussion that nixon occupies this unique place in our public consciousness, you have to put presidents in boxes. we have the top and bottom third, average, below average. where does nixon fall? what box do we put him in? can a box even contain him. >> woodruff: that's a good question for somebody like you who looks at contemporary history, beverly gage. >> he fits into a lot of boxes. so if you're going to do your pure numerical rankings of how successful a president was certainly the only president to resign ends up pretty close to the bottom but there's a whole series of revisionist discussions about nixon, was he actually a liberal, that by today's political standards, the man who founded the e.p.a. -- >> woodruff: a republican who founded the e.p.a., women's equal employment, started the war on cancer, you could go on. >> exactly, and many people now are actually looking back to nixon with this romantic blend of moderate republican. >> woodruff: so pat buchanan, help us understand. today we think of reps in one way. he was a different kind of republican. >> he was an eisenhower era republican. the conservative movement to which i belong began in the late '50s. nixon was already an international figure then. i looked upon him as a pragmatist who was not into government, he came out of poverty. i'm sure he didn't think the new deal was going down the road to socialism. i listened to the tapes the other night and he had had scurrilous comments about jewish folks and (indiscernible). i was with him with israel in the yom kippur war. you put it together and you get a picture of someone who's a powerful, masterful figure. >> woodruff: how did he change this country? i mean, it can be argued that the way we view government, government itself changed as a result of richard nixon. >> well, one thing is that no president tapes anymore. the other thing that's quite different that i've told richard nixon, president own their papers, so the actual documentation of the presidency has changed dramatically because of the nixon era. but i also think that richard rich forced a lot of americans to think about what they want their president to do. you know, the reason why richard nixon, i believe, would not have resigned had it not been for the tapes is that we americans prefer our presidents to be right. we'll disagree with them, but at a certain point, the president is our bald eagle. we need presidents that are better than average, and richard nixon tested that and made a lot of people in congress in the supreme court, in the press and in the public think about what should the limits be on any man who occupies -- and some day i hope a woman -- who occupies the white house? for that, richard nixon will be forever remembered. >> woodruff: luke nichter, what would you add to that? >> i'd add that not just the nixon presidency but really the long 1960s fundamentally reordered the relationship between the government and the governed. young people wanted to go to journalism as a result and people have become more cynical of their political leaders. some ways it's better, it's created greater transparency but ultimately changed the country in so many ways e. . >> woodruff: i want to turn to beverly gage. did we permanently become more cynical result of watergate and the nixon presidency? do we give him the credit or discredit for that? >> i think we did. i would add two things to what's already been said, one is that we also have the look at watergate not really as ending with the resignation but having a series of consequences afterwards, particularly through the intelligence community began to have a whole series of studies of government secrecy and those fundamentally changed in the '70s. the second thing i would add is i do think it changed americans attitudes towards government and their expectations of government in a funny way. if you had been here in 1974 on this day and said what's going to happen to the republican party? you would have said they're finished! but in a funny way this suspicion of government benefited -- >> there was a good feeling in america. you had lyndon johnson and nixon and johnson was broken by the same cultural, political, moral revolution, civil rights, anti-war, all the rest of ut, urban rights, all the things that came out of the '60s that permanently brought down nixon and johnson permanently divided america. not only that, that division has grown and the counterculture is dominant now. these are the seeds of the wars we're fighting today. you can see the goldwater battle today. i don't know that the republican party can come back the because it has permanently lost a significant slice of the country. >> woodruff: we are raising subjects we could go on about and will have other opportunities to come back. thank you all very much. we thank you. >> thank you. >> ifill: again, the major developments of the day. it was widely reported this evening that the u.s. military has began air dropping humanitarian aid to yazidis fleeing islamic state fighters and president obama is also considering air strikes. secretary of state john kerry returnedto afghanistan in an urgent bid to end the deadlock over who won the presidential election. and russia formally banned imports of agricultural products from the u.s. and europe, even as nato warned moscow not to send troops into ukraine. >> woodruff: on the newshour online right now, making the decision to put down your pet is never easy, but a kansas bio- science firm is offering dog and cat owners a little comfort in the form of an organ donation. now, tissue taken from a euthanized animal can be used in research focused on advancing the treatment of canine and feline diabetes. the practice also helps to preserve the lives of research animals. read more about the program, from our partners at kansas city public tv, on our science page. all that and more is on our web site, newshour.pbs.org. >> ifill: and that's the newshour for tonight. on friday, judy talks with the president of somalia about the recent uptick in terrorist attacks by the islamic militants of al shabab. i'm gwen ifill. >> woodruff: and i'm judy woodruff. we'll see you on-line, and again here tomorrow evening with mark shields and david brooks among others. for all of us here at the pbs newshour, thank you and good night. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: ♪ ♪ moving our economy for 160 years. bnsf, the engine that connects us. >> charles schwab, proud supporter of the "pbs newshour." >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. captioning sponsored by macneil/lehrer productions captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org er . this is "nightly business report" with tyler mathisen and susie gharib. >> global tensions, stocks slump as concerns over europe's economy and possible escalations in ukraine and iraq weigh on the markets. how global turmoil, could, could end up helping u.s. stocks and bonds. >> passwords, as more and more reports surface of data breaches and computer hacks, are passwords becoming a thing of the past? >> and a heavy burden, companies have drugs that might save some people's lives. but they have to say no. the difficult decisions, and the reason behind them. as we continue the three-part series for desperate measures for thursday, august 7th. good evening. i'm tyler mathisen, welcome. >> i'm sue
issue, we fundamentally are against terrorism, clearly against terrorism and if we have the opportunity to combat them we will do so because terrorists threaten everyone, both countries in which the terrorists operate as well as others. >> rose: and we one clude with the secretary of general of nato anders fogh rasmussen. >> it's become clear to everybody why we still need nato. now, we are faced with complete new security situation in the east because of russia's illegal military actions. but you see, you see, i would call it an act of crises surrounding nato. not only to the east but also to the southeast and to the south, even from cyberspace. >> the president of iran and secretary of nato when we continue. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: mr. president, thank you for joining us. >> i also thank you, sir. >> rose: it's a pleasure to see you again. >> i'm also quite gratified to see you after about one year. >> rose: the united states as announced bombing in syria. they notified you beforehand. were you notified? >> this does not mean that the united states of america vis-a-vis its air bombardment informs iran previously or willing for iran. on the sidelines of the nuclear talks in a general fashion, this topic was touched upon and they had a general conversation about it, about the fact that the u.s. said they intends to extend the range of the air bombardments that we have in iraq. nothing precise, nothing that came a day or a few hours prior to this bombardment of syria. >> rose: do you approve of what the united states did? >> what is the meaning? does the united states think that with a few bombardments, we'll be able to destroy terrorism? and make them suffer damages if let's the general thought, then it's incredibly simple thinking that we would be combating terrorism. including the fact that the terrorism has been taking the lines of syrians for the past three years. how come is it that now the united states is thinking about combating them and defeating them? >> rose: i assume because they became alarmed by the success of isis. >> in any fashion, the terrorist groups in syria have attracted many villages, killed an incredibly vast number of people. conquered cities during the last three years and the united states not only did not show any reaction, but sometimes the tone was something that was perhaps encouraging the terrorist activities. >> rose: in fact the president of the united states said the reason they do not support moderate forces was because they feared weapons will fall into the hands of those you describe as terrorists. >> well in any fashion, where did these people obtain the arms and weapons. there were countries that weaponry and came in syria financially and in worse countries that encourage them in their media. all of these supporters must be held to account and be made to answer for the killing that has taken place in syria over the last three years. >> rose: my impression of your argument is that some arab countries will now engage in the fight against isis earlier supported the rise of isis. >> well in any way, sir, you're aware that not only regional countries, some regional countries but also some countries from outside our region were supporting various terrorist groups. the united states herself has given support of them. and these types of support have come in various forms. some financially, some with equipping and some made their country the territory of their nation as the passageway to the field of battle and some encourage them in their domestic media and international media. all of them in one fashion or another encouraged and supported these terrorists. terrorism is always bad, without exception. you cannot say now it's good and another time condemn it. it is always bad and evil. >> rose: why do you think they thought it was good? why would these governments support terrorism? >> unfortunately, in the world of politics, the understanding for some is such that when an objective becomes a paramount importance. for example, the toppling of a certain government becomes of utmost important, then they allow themselves to use any means, any means in order to reach their own objective. whereas these means, these tools can at a later point be used against them. >> rose: you're suggesting that saudi arabia, qatar, turkey supported the terrorists because they wanted to overthrow president beshard al-assad. >> i did not say other countries but you're free to interpret it the way you wish. there are certain countries that with the government were opposed to the government of syria and were under the impression by supporting the terrorists they would succeed in toppling that government. but obviously they were quite wrong in their calculus. >> rose: do you believe the facts now will have the possibility of toppling the assad government in syria? and that is the -- >> we, for the objective of these bombardments, these ariel campaigns are not clear and we do not know. the final objective, the end game for those who carry out the air bombardments, anything can be the objective. in our opinion, if the air bombardments campaign is not within the frame work of international law, it is to be condemned. and assuming that if the objective is such for them to combat terrorists, in a nation, in a country territory without coordination, with the government of that country, at the request of that country, then such action, whatever the intent may be can be considered an attack, an invasion. >> rose: even though it's not an attack against the government of syria. it's attack against people who have been barbaric in their actions. the actions is against them and not the syrian government. and in fact the administration communicated that to the syrian government. >> at some point the syrian government, let's assume they can act. thatbit. the other is a third party, a certain government decides on her own to target certain areas of a nation through ariel bombardment. in any way. without the threat of government, a country, it's quite meaningless for us to enter the country in any way shape or fashion through air bombardments or otherwise. so it is a wrong action. >> rose: even though you have been outspoken in characterizing isis as a threat. you've made it clear that they have to be stopped. you criticize them for even using the name of islam. >> all of that is correct absolutely. this terrorist group is a terrorist group and.,qvá)emely terrorist groups it's extremely savage and barbaric in their conduct, in their action, and inappropriately and wrongly use the name of islam and the fate of muslims in all of their actions unhe equalally, the government and teachings of islam. but that doesn't mean a group in a country conducts various activities another country without coordination and without permission of the central government of the victimized country even their air space, albeit, and carry out an air bombardment campaign. i think this is quite clear for everyone to understand and filmize there's no room for other interpretations. if anyone wishes to carry out any operations, air campaigns or otherwise they need to do so with the permission of the government of that country. >> rose: what are your conditions for iran to be engaged in the battle against isis? what's necessary for iran? >> i spoke of this previously. any country a teeter or group of terrorists are active. if the government of that country formally requests the republic of iran for assistance, we will assist against them those terrorists. >> rose: that is true in terms of your previous relationship with the government fighting in the civil war in syria. because bashar assad is all of the them against the terrorists civil war. >> if we label a group as terrorists, we're not seeking to speak of something that we have doubts about. a group in a country are carrying forward terrorists and barbaric activities, we know they're terrorists. if the government of that country formally requests of us to assist that government against a group of terrorists, we will certainly render that assistance. >> rose: is there possibility here of some kind of grand bargain in which if there is progress in the nuclear talks, you would be more acceptable to participating in the fight against isis? >> we do not connect the two issues. mondmentally the nuclear talks and the fact that we must all of us see progress, tangible progress and resolve issues, we do believe that the resolution of those issuesó benefits all. it benefits the regions as well as the entirety of the world. but outside that nuclear issue, we are fundamentally against terrorism, clearly against terrorism. and if we have the opportunity to gas terrorists we will do so. because terrorists endanger and threaten everyone. both country in which the terrorists operate, as well as others. because terrorism is borderless. it does not remain constant in one country or mobile. it's like a parasite that moves from one region to another. no one can feel as being safe from that parasite, until that parasite, those microbial beings exist in a certain area, we must only concentration on the eradication on those. we can only have peace of mind at a time when terrorism no longer exists and the terrorists no longer can see an environment or atmosphere for their activities. but until such time as there exists a conducive environment for the growth and their expansion, this is an incredibly threatening and dangerous phenomenon, not just for one but multitude of countries and regions. >> rose: why do terrorists invoke the name of islam in their recruitment? >> evil. or the wrong always uses the name of the righteous and enable of the righteous in ordems reah their objectives. no one will say, i'm an oppressor, i am evil be on my side, be with me. if they wish to be able to attract recruits, they will come up with slogans that are desirable. in our region, the faith is quite attractive for the youth of our region. our youth is in love with the islamic culture and the islamic teaching. and some have managed to take advantage of this love and use a mask in order, use a face in order to mask the realities of their being. and on the other hand unfortunately in our region, because of the hegemony in the region, a lot of youth have lost their hope and this hopelessness is a path that makes them more readily available to go toward safe slogan thinking that will be their salvation where as it's not. thinking they can prize from the oppression that they have seen and reach the region of that oppression. it is always like that. some have always managed to take advantage of the righteousness and good. and this group is abusing the name of the faith of islam. >> rose: so the battle has to do not only on the battlefield, not only military but in terms of reaching and debating the world of ideas. >> the root of terrorism must certainly within cultural and social, as well as political frame works, be addressed withie those frame works only. terrorism cannot only be defeated with bombs or weapons. we must ultimately eradicate the bulk of violence from the mind and mind set of the youth. they must be hate so that they do not believe that through violence they can reach objective. which maybe perceived, wrongly perceived in the mind of this youth as holy objective, they cannot be thinking this is the way to reach that objective. we must give them the correct explanation, the correct interpretation from a cultural angle, from social angles, from the eradication of poverty and addressing poverty. a lot of economic issues, economic situations can become fertile ground for violence. therefore if we really want to look at terrorism for what it is, the evil thatnúsñ it is and combat it and eradicate it, we must have an extremely holistic approach to it and approach it from every angle. if we only focus and concentrate on the leaves and different branches of leaves, other than trimming those leaves and branches because the roots are still imbedded in the ground, that real evil will flourish and grow again. down the line we will face the same tree only stronger and more deeply rooted. >> rose: in this context, where do you put the shi'a sunni? >> let's, if you will, the tension between different÷ faith has always been something line up people against one another. always. in our region from the old days it was always the same and everyone knew they said when oppression wanted to enter the region and take advantage of the region's people, the resources, they always seek to do so, they always sought to do so by creating gaps between the different faiths or the sects in the region. so the religious beliefs that in their mind can easily justify lining people against one another. and those who keep speaking about the conflict between shi'a and sunni are certainly fundamentally against both sects. they're not shi'a nor are they sunni. and many certainly believe that a religious culture has no place in society. this is the multitude that has always been used throughout the region, the reality is that both shi'a and sunnis believe in one holy book. and maybe the greatest majority of those thoughts and beliefs are common thoughts and beliefs. >> rose: yet many people view the struggle in the middle east today beyond the struggle against terrorism. as they struggle for influence in the region between two primary powers, iran and saudi arabia. a contest for influence.>> well,a have lived across the water from one another for many centuries. the people from saudi arabia even now, many of them travel to iran every year for pilgrimage and many iranians go for pilgrimage as well. we have neighbors throughout many years of long history have managed to live well next to one another. yet, saudi arabia, sure, could be a regional power. iran could be a regional power. there are other regional powers. absolutely. absolutely. but there are other regional powers. >> rose: turkey? >> surely, surely. turkey in the future. iraq will be a great power in the region. any way, we must live next to each other. even now, the united states is a power, the european union is a power. doesn't mean if there are multitudes of powers, of centers of power, their progress can be realized through the destruction or the weakening of one another. the solution for mutual progress is for countries to collaborate and cooperate and seek to obtain the mutual objective for the progress of not only one another but for the region as a whole. therefore sure, someone could interpret it as iran speaking a regional hegemony that other countries are seeking that regional hegemony. we never thought regional hegemony. we're not seeking nor will we ever. in the past 200 years of our nation we've never attacked or invaded another country. there were countries who were born in an extremely weak analysis next to our borders.wed them, we collaborated with them, next to them. but you saw after the downfall of the soviet union, quite a few small countries to the northern border of our country came into being in existence. we recognize the legitimacy, we've helped and assisted them. we collaborated with them. we must all learn peaceful coexistence with one another. particularly neighbors. towards one another. this is the only way to realize progress, nothing else. >> rose: i think you have suggested there was some progress in relationship with saudi arabia because your foreign minister went and talked to the foreign minister of saudi arabia and you have suggested there's a dialogue there. >> certainly it is so. saudi arabia is our neighbor. we have had very good relationship with them in the past. and now vis-a-vis our mubjectivy particular challenges. perhaps there are differences of opinion vis-a-vis certain regional issues. but whenever conflict of opinion, differences of opinion arise about regional issue, the best way to resolve those is to sit down and talk them out and reach a solution. >> rose: so why don't you sit down with the president of the united states while you're in new york? you know where i'm going? you're seek the prime minister of britain. why not see the president of the united states. talk about what divides you. talk about nuclearation, talk about terrorism. talk about how you can cooperate. talk about your stuff. >> in any ways, between the united states and america, throughout the last 30=y some od years, conflict and tensions have existed, quite a few. you are fully aware of the history of this relationship between the two countries during the last three plus decades. of course one day these difficulties, these challenges must be resolved. i do not believe that between iran andperpetual distance, perl gap and tension. in any way, i do believe that these tensions will come to an end. one day the distances will be shortened. the nation the two people will not allow the gap in perpetuity. but how to defeat these gaps. to resolve the issue and the difficulties. of course now between iran and thedirect talks vis-a-vis the nuclear issue. they are talking to one another. even at the ministerial level. one day, perhaps there will be a need for talks at a higher level. we must interpret at what time under what conditions and in order to reach what objective. what we must accept is that we must look towards the future that encompasses the benefits and the interests of both nations and both people. >> rose: the united states has imposed sanctions against iran. are they effective? are they causing pain? to the iranian citizens? >> in any way, sir, when a country uses illegitimate tools and causes for the delayed receiving of medication by those who are gravely ill, this causes hardship for those who suffer illness because of the lack of medication in their countries. sanctions are extremely oppressive, have been extremely oppressive and unfair. unfairly imposed. and have been quite damaging at a human level, if nothing else. you're fully aware that in, during a period of time, people either did not have access to medicationexorbitantly high prir those medications. could be obtain the tools and the raw materials that they needed because of the sanctions. so all of this in aggregate means that a nation, a people have suffered. but these pressures are also exerted perhaps involuntarily against the source. so it is a double-edged sword. both sides will suffer the pain, for the imposer of the sanctions and for those on whom it is imposed. what is important is that our people did not surrender in the face of these sanctions. for their own rights, they have stood up for their own rights and we've received sanctions as a wrong path to follow and wrong tool to use and the wrong putk÷ between two countries. as you touched upon earlier it is the conversation of table talk and understanding. now do you think ill ill legitt tools. >> rose: why don't you talk to the president of the united states while you're in new york. >> i answered this question. two nations that have suffered many problems between one another and have had very difficulty towards one another. if one day the appropriate foundation hasn't been laid for such a meeting, if the appropriate aim has not been calculated, then it would not be fruitful. so today, the conditions do not dictate such a meeting. we do not want to put on a show. our people do not enjoy or theatre and certainly that is something that the people of the united states. >> rose: nor does the president want to do that. >> therefore, let the time mature. upon during which such talk and such meetings can be fruitful towards resolving problems and issues. >> rose: what does time have to cure? what is it that time will take care of? what is the essence of the conflict? is it nuclear tensions? you say for peaceful uses. they believe for weapons. is it political? >> well, it emanates from this. we can sometimes as humans perhaps we're keen on denying reality. because these3ç realities whene revolution took place in iran and iran succeeded in their own will managing the affairs of their country. and someone who was being managed by the united states was made to meet that country for good, the united states did not want to accept this. or perhaps they thought they could deny the reality or change the reality. or the previous wrong experience through which they toppled the prime minister. they did not fully reach an understanding of the essence of this islamic revolution. so that was the starting point of these tensions of this conflict and we saw during the holy defense war against iraq, the americans did show an acceptable behavior. they backed and supported someone who was an attacker and invader. and everything, you know, what everything else has happened leading us to where we are today, illegal sanctions against the country. these are not fruitful. these create and increase the size of these gaps. we must take action, we must show our goodwill so that these gaps will decrease. if we made a mistake in the past doesn't mean that we need to repeat it. we're not going to repeating our mistakes. when the american politics and the american government takes that position i assure you the positions will change noticeably. which means they will decide to accept their reality of iran, to accept the reality of a nation of iran and accept an unalienable rights of the people of iran. certainly the results of this recent situation will change. >> rose: you believe, the president has said that the nuclear issue as of november 24th i think deadline. he said it's 50/50. what do you think? do you think you will reach an agreement with the unitedhñ stas over nuclear issues by november 24th? >> what i can say is that if the serious will exists in both sides, that certainly this agreement is within reach. from our side, certainly this serious will does exist in order to reach an agreement so that we can resolve and put away the points of contention that exist between the sides today. but the same willingness must exist in the counterparts. we do not leave to chance and say we have been visions in these negotiations or the other sides have been losers. the what if we both say that the only slogan that we chant is that it has to be a win/win situation for all sides involved. so that the rights of all nations are respected. and ultimately, all international rights and laws can be respected, then certainly before the deadline that's remaining ahead of us, we will proceed in resolving this issue. >> rose: then describe your win/win. what is a win/win for the president of iran on nuclearation. >> in my opinion this win/win is quite clear. it is what has been written in international law and agreement. iran has the right to use all available nuclear technology for saw viflian purposes and iran will not be discriminated against in reaching these rights. iran is a signatory to the mpt and must be treated like other countries who are signatories. and if there are any reasons for lack of confidence, we are willing toho erase the reasons r those those that are looking. the condition must be created as a win/win for both sides. so the win means that iran must be victorious in safeguarding every right to use peaceful nuclear energy and technologyand and must be should throughs no deviation from this. >> rose: there will be no nucelaion. but they said they need 100,000 centrifuges. >> what we want is to have the ability to use various sources of energy, meaning having the ability to provide, for our electricity needs through various ways. you do know that now we do have a power plant, you do know that we are in conversations with russia, you do know that we are in talks with russia for new power plants. we do want both in the construction of power plants to reach a point of self sufficiency, to be able to build the nuclear power plant ourselves. as well as providing for our own fuel with self sufficiency. you do know that when a power plant is made operational, perhaps it can function for 50 or 60 years. but three times a year, the fuel needs to be replaced. so three times a year, we do need to provide for new fuel and bring it to the power plants. so we do need to be self sufficient in the arena of providing fuel for our own needs, for at least one installation similar to bouche and the reactors for radio isotopes, we also want to provide for the fuel needed for that. so the calculus between our experts and subject matter experts, it's to be able to provide the fuel needed for an installation such as the one we have in bouche as well as the iran reactor which is used for medical research and nuclear isotope productions. if we can reach these objectives, we will have a need for 190,000, swu. so for those 190 thousand you can say it is the fuel needed toward one power plant. >> rose: do you believe the present attacks against eye cision in syria will be successful. >> do you mean the united states -- >> rose: arab countries. with the support of the free syrian army. that's the strategy. >> it is not clear for us. what they're speaking. whether they're under the pressure of their own domestic public opinions and want to put on a show, a theatre for public consumption, or they're after a tangible, a real objective in the region, it is not crystal clear for us. but what i can tell you unequivocally, no terrorists can be eradicated and destroyed through ariel bombardment only. >> rose: no one believes that. no one believes that. the united states doesn't believe that, the arab countries don't believe that that are supporting the united states. they understand that. that's why they're focusing on the training of the free syrian army. syrian. to combat the terrorists in their own country. >> so in other words, they want to put more fuel on the existing fire. >> rose: no. they wantedfd to destroy the terrorists. >> this is not the way, sir. the way to combat terrorism, sir, is not for us to give birth to another terrorist group in order to stand up against an existing terrorist group. these are the theories of mistakes that have composed the ridges of the chain that have taken us from where we were to where we are today. we must accept the reality. we cannot organize armed groups of fighters in order to reach our objective. thus far, they were sadly mistaken, those who equipped and trained these terrorist groups. and the same will be repeated if they seek to do the same thing. from this point on, i do thank you very much, i do wish you continued health. at the very least i do hope i was able to answer some of the questions you had in mind. thank you so much and god bless you. >> rose: thank you very much, mr. president. >> rose: let's talk first about what everybody saw in that in terms of a conflict with isis. how do you see the strategy of the president and the strategy of those in the region and people who were on the gulf council and the people who have tried to come together with a coalition. is that coalition building. >> yes, indeed. i really welcome the american initiative to build such coalition. it's high time to take military action to stop the advance of isis. the so-called islamic state, which is neither islamic nor a state. it's a terrorist organization that poses3m a threat not only o iran but to the whole world. >> rose: i do want to talk about that but i want to go to ukraine and the threat there. the president seems to have made it clear that if in fact russia or president putin decided to move on a nato in any way in the baltic, there will be a response and that he should clearly understand it. >> yes, indeed. that was a very clear message from the nato summit. we adopted what we call a readiness action plan which will mean more visible nato presence in the east. so the russians know that if they were to attack an ally, they would meet not only troops from that specific ally but they would meet nato. >> rose: what about ukraine which is not a member of nato. what is necessary there to send a signal? >> obviously there is a clear difference being a member of nato or not being a nato. if you are a member it means if there's an attack one will be considered an attack on all. so members of nato are covered by this collective defense and solidarity clause. if you're not a member of nato, you're not covered by that clause. however, we have decided to step up our military cooperation with ukraine at the summit. we took positions that will help ukraine and their own capability to defend themselves. >> rose: what do they need to build that capability. >> what anyway though can provide is defense capacity building in form ofv9 training activities, advice, assistance, defense reforms. we will invite them to participate more intensively in nato exercises that will help modernize the military, build their capacity. >> rose: i heard recently two responses about where putin is. one is he got beyond a place where he wanted to be, that it was a reactive measure by him and that he doesn't like the hand he's playing. the other is that in fact it is exactly what he wants to do, that it is part of something that has concerned him for a long time is that russia needs to be surrounded by a barrier. >> i have no doubt that putin's am basic is to reestablish a sphere of russian influence in the near neighborhoods, in the form of soviet space. >> rose: as a defensive measure. >> yes, both, i would say. but also to present countries in russia's new neighborhood to seek integration with nato and the european union. and it is in russia's interest to fuel protractive conflicts in the region. so this goes actually beyond ukraine. it goes beyond eastern ukraine. it's also in maldo vavment, because russia calculates as long as these countries are under served, nato and the european union will be reluctant to import such countries into our organization.to so these countries serve his interest. >> rose: do you think he felt weakness in reactions. >> i think we have demonstrated unity and cohesion. you have seen what i would call an unprecedented unity between the european union, the u.s., nato, g7. i think we have sent a very clear message. having said that, no doubt that putin counts a western reluctance to really control him. so i have no doubt that continued russian destabilization of ukraine should be met by broader and tougher economic sanctions. >> rose: you also believe that there is a political solution, do you not? >> yes, but i think the only sustainable long term solution is political solution, there's no military. >> rose: what would be the outlines of that? >> well, first of all let me stress, that it's for the ukrainians to decide the long term solution without outside interference. in that respect, i welcome that president poroshenko to reform the ukrainian society with a view to decentralize powers and gives more influence to the region as requested by some of the eastern regions. so i think recurrent political leadership in kiev to find a peaceful and political solution. >> rose: do you think putin is prepared for that or do wetc has to be coerced into that by sanctions. >> putin plays a double game. on the one hand occasionally accommodating statements and actions, sometimes you see withdrawal of russian troops. then afterwards, you see a build up of russian troops. all with the aim to confuse the public in western countries. and also whenever we have meetings or going to have meetings that could, that could result in sanctions, then putin makes some moves. so it's all a game. so while issuing accommodating statements then with the other hands, they continue destabilizing ukraine. >> rose: in the game -- >> not really forward. it's really i am very much concerned. this is really dramatically typical situation in europe. we have spent more than 20 years to build a constructive partnership with rush since the end of the cold war. i would say we have a generation obligation to try and use the new situation after the cold war to build constructive relationship with russia. but clearly today russia considers us not a partner but adversary and of course we have to adapt to that. >> rose: you're adapting to that. >> it's a force that can be deployed rapidly, within a very few days. it can beáñ deployed to an ally that has been attacked or threatened by a potential aggressor. in order to be able to receive such reinforcement quickly, we would have to prepare facilities. so pre positioned equipment and supplies, prepare necessary infrastructure including bases and ports. so you will see more visible nato presence in these. >> rose: has the crises reminded us why nato was created in the first place? because there was a sense before this crises what's nato do? and all of a sudden there's almost a demand that nato shows what it's about. >> the question has changed from why nato. >> rose: exactly. >> i think it has become very clear why we still need nato. now, we are faced with completely new security situation in the east because of russia's illegal military actions. but you see, you see i will call it an arc of crises surrounding nato not only to the east but also to the southeast and even from cyberspace. and so for all these, we need a very strong collective system. and this is also reason why we need to invest more in security defense. during the last five year the russians have increased their defense spending by 50%!ñ while nato allies have decreased spending by 20%. obviously that's not sustainable. so now we need to reverse the trend. >> rose: what's the base of nato respectable russian influence in ukraine. >> i wouldn't act even. >> rose: nothing would be acceptable in terms of russian influence. even though they have a long history. >> why couldn't russia and ukraine live side by side in peace and harmony and let ukraine decide what is the future of their country. it's not for the russians, it's not for us, it's for the ukrainians to decide and we should respect that. >> rose: if they decide they want to be a member of nato. >> yes, of course. >> rose: put in an application and see what happens. >> then we will deal with that as we deal with all other applicant countries. let me remind you by the way, that back in 2008, at the nato summit, we made a decision that ukraine and also georgia will become members of nato for the necessary criteria. >> rose: that was a bad day for vladimir putin. >> yes, i think he didn't like it. and unfortunately, he then invaded georgia in august 2008. >> rose: you said this about him and this may have been when you were prime minute 12ur. you shouldn't under estimate putin's determination. he has clear goal and strategy and clear tactics. to match that you need a firm stance and strong determination. >> yes. i think i said it as prime minister. i haven't changed my mind. >>it there, a strong will and determination. >> yes, both. and better take seriously what mr. putin says, because he has demonstrated that he does what he says. >> rose: nato in your judgment is more relevant than ever. >> yes. it's been relevant all the way through. but now it's become very clear to everybody why we need nato. >> rose: thank you for joining us. more about this program and early episodes visit us on-line at pbs.org and charlierose.com. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org this program was made possible in part by... a worldwide packaging- solutions company providing environmentally sound products with a low carbon footprint to hundreds of millions of people and more than 170 countries. and new ideas through programs like this, made available for everyone through contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. now, learn the astonishing fact that how we eat is as important as what we eat. we should be thinking a little less about which diet we should be on and a little bit more about how food fits into the fabric of our relationships and our lives. join chicken soup for the soul editor-in-chief and author amy newmark: taste of home editor-in-chief catherine cassidy:
>> i think that the love a parent has for their child is the single greatest and most underutilized natural resource in education. >> woodruff: and it's friday, ruth marcus and michael gerson are here, to analyze the week's news. those are just some of the stories we're covering on tonight's pbs newshour. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: ♪ ♪ moving our economy for 160 years. bnsf, the engine that connects us. >> i've been around long enough to recognize the people who are out there owning it. the ones getting involved, staying engaged. they are not afraid to question the path they're on. because the one question they never want to ask is, "how did i end up here?" i started schwab with those people. people who want to take ownership of their investments, like they do in every other aspect of their lives. >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions and... >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> sreenivasan: the tensions between ukraine and russia spiked today, when a convoy of russian trucks rolled across the frontier. the move drew widespread condemnation. hari sreenivasan has the story. >> sreenivasan: after more than a week of waiting, a stream of white trucks crossed the ukrainian border without the kiev government's approval. russian officials said the trucks carried only food, water, generators and sleeping bags. >> ( translated ): we can't tolerate this kind of outrageous situation, bare-faced lie and all pretexts to postpone the aid delivery to the people in the area of humanitarian catastrophe are over. the russian side has decided to act. we warn of any attempts to disrupt the purely humanitarian mission that has been prepared long ago. >> sreenivasan: the ukrainian government said it would not use force to stop the trucks, but it condemned the russian move. >> ( translated ): we call it this way: this is a direct invasion, these are military vehicles, these are military men with fake documents. these are military men who have been trained to convoy cargo, trained to drive combat vehicles, tanks and artillery. this is why this situation is so dangerous. >> sreenivasan: the convoy headed for luhansk, a rebel-held city under siege by ukrainian government forces. the first trucks arrived there by mid-day, and many appeared half-empty. ukrainian prime minister arseniy yatsenyuk said that proved russia is lying about the real purpose of the convoy. >> ( translated ): here is their motivation: they are now waiting for several trucks of the so- called humanitarian aid convoy to be simply bombed, and bombed by the russians themselves so that they can tell the whole world, this is a junta which wages war on its own people. >> sreenivasan: the ukrainians further charged the trucks would transport weapons and carry away the bodies of russians killed in the fighting. international criticism also poured in. rear admiral john kirby spoke at the pentagon. >> this is a violation of ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity by russia. russia must remove its vehicles and its personnel from the territory of ukraine immediately. nato secretary general anders fogh rasmussen added his voice, saying: >> sreenivasan: at the same time, russian president vladimir putin, in a phone call with german chancellor angela merkel, discussed possible steps for a cease-fire in ukraine. merkel travels to kiev tomorrow. >> woodruff: in iraq, a deadly new assault today jeopardized efforts to form a new government. 64 people died when a suicide bomber and then, gunmen, attacked a sunni mosque northeast of baghdad, in diyala province. at least 60 others were wounded. it was unclear if shiite militias or sunni radicals from the "islamic state" group carried out the attack. but it prompted sunni lawmakers to quit talks on creating an all-inclusive cabinet. >> woodruff: the white house has signaled that the u.s. military might go after "islamic state" forces inside syria, as well as iraq. yesterday, the chair of the joint chiefs, army general martin dempsey, said that's the only way to defeat the militants. deputy national security advisor ben rhodes addressed the issue today, at martha's vineyard, where the president is vacationing. >> we're actively considering what's going to be necessary to deal with that threat, and we're not going to be restricted by borders. we've shown time and again that if there's a counterterrorism threat, we'll take direct action against that threat if necessary. >> woodruff: overnight, u.s. warplanes carried out more air strikes against "islamic state" targets around mosul, in northern iraq. the u.s. today accused china's military of "dangerous" conduct in an aerial incident on tuesday. pentagon officials said a chinese fighter jet repeatedly buzzed a u.s. navy surveillance plane, coming within 30 feet at one point. it happened about 135 miles off china's hainan island. another u.s. surveillance plane had to land there in 2001 after being hit by a chinese plane. to the middle east, and gaza, where gunmen executed 18 palestinians accused of spying for israel, a day after israeli air strikes killed three hamas commanders. meanwhile, a mortar round killed a four-year-old israeli child. the israeli military said it was fired from next to a u.n. school sheltering gazans. four palestinians died in the latest israeli air strikes. the u.n. human rights office now estimates stunning numbers have died in syria's three-year-long civil war, more than 191,000 people. that includes 62,000 in the last year alone. a spokesman for the u.n.'s human rights commissioner spoke today in geneva. >> people are dying every single day. the rates of killing in syria, if you look at monthly averages, is extraordinarily high. we're talking, i think over the last year, around 5,000 to 6,000 per month. >> woodruff: u.n. officials charged war crimes are also being committed on all sides in the syrian conflict. the death count in west africa's ebola outbreak has surged past 1,400. the world health organization says nearly 300 more people died since the last count, a week ago. more than 2,600 cases are confirmed in four affected countries: liberia, guinea, sierra leone and nigeria. more marches are planned tonight and through the weekend in ferguson, missouri, as street violence subsides. about a hundred people peacefully protested in the st. louis suburb last night. they carried signs and chanted slogans calling for justice in the police shooting death of michael brown. the funeral for brown is scheduled for monday. the obama administration is trying again to end a fight over contraception coverage under health care reform. new rules they announced today say church groups and some companies don't have to pay for birth control, if they notify the government of religious objections. instead, insurers will foot the bill. supreme court decisions in june struck down previous requirements. >> woodruff: federal reserve board chair janet yellen gave little indication today of when the fed might raise interest rates. but, in a major speech, she suggested again it won't be any time soon. wall street's reaction was muted, the dow jones industrial average lost 38 points to close at 17,001. the nasdaq rose six points to close at 4,538. and the s-and-p 500 was down nearly four points, at 1,988. for the week, the dow gained 2%. the nasdaq and the s-and-p were up more than 1.5%. >> woodruff: also ahead on the newshour. why kurdish fighters lack the military might to thwart islamic state militants in iraq. "orange is the new black" author piper kerman on the emmy nominated netflix series. how parents and family can be the key to making sure kids keep learning during the summer break. ruth marcus and michael gerson on the week's news. and, how the a.l.s. ice bucket challenge went viral. >> woodruff: now, to the frontline of the fight to save iraq. one element of the u.s. effort to turn the situation around relies on arming kurdish security forces in their fight with militants from the islamic state group. chief foreign affairs correspondent margaret warner just spent the day with kurdish military leaders as they traveled to jalawla which is not that far from baghdad. here's her report. >> warner: racing south on the highway between iraq's kurdish capital erbil and baghdad, miles of open desert unfold, dotted by villages and towns. but just a quarter of the way down, iraq's most vital commercial lifeline becomes the frontline. "islamic state group" has advanced to within 650 yards of the road. kurdish forces colonel wrya hasan took us to one of many well-manned kurdish peshmerga outposts guarding the new frontier, to show us just how close the islamic state's forbidding flag flew. >> warner: what keeps them from coming right across this highway? >> if they came closer, we could stop them. and we could move their way , but there are a lot arabs living in that area and it would kill a lot of people. >> warner: so it would be a bloody encounter to retake? >> ( translated ): yes it would be bloody, and many civilians would die. >> warner: colonel hasan was escorting us in his armored suv to the town of jalawla, 100 miles northeast of baghdad, in southern diyala province. it's now partly controlled by the kurds since the iraqi army collapsed before the islamic state's onslaught in mid-june. we'd come to explore why, over the past month, the famed peshmerga army, considered one of the best in the region, had also fallen back at several points along its internal frontier against the islamist group. general mahmoud sengawi commands this southern region, and on our way to the front, i asked him why he was now fighting to take back the strategically located town of jalawla. >> warner: how did you lose jalawla on august 11th? >> ( translated ): because there were civilians inside the town, and because we couldn't distinguish those who are isis with those who are not. there were snipers among them and our peshmerga were getting killed. this is why i decided to retreat from jawawla. >> warner: we continued talking behind the shelter of a peshmerga outpost overlooking a two-mile stretch of no-man's land east of jawawla. >> warner: how different are they from any force you've faced before? >> isis is essentially fighting the way islamic fighters did in early centuries when they spilled a lot of blood to occupy other countries. we've never fought anyone like that. >> warner: do you all need to change strategy? >> ( translated ): yes, of course we need to change strategy, these fighters came straight from the streets and we need to learn to fight them in the streets. >> warner: street fighting training is key, says military analyst michael stephens. though he lives in erbil, i spoke with him today via skype from london. >> the general rank and file are not able to do this. they've almost been turned into a checkpoint army. they're basically responsible for static security protection and not the other kind of dynamic advance tactics that isis is using the ground. >> warner: but that's not the only change they need, stephens says. >> the other thing of course is that isis is fighting a new type of warfare that the kurds are not used to. a tank is no good versus mobile units of independently working armored humvees, that are very able to move quickly and that they simply aren't trained for that sort of combat. >> warner: the kurdish forces blame their problems on the lack of the sort of advanced weaponry needed to combat the modern american-made items captured by islamic state forces from iraqi army bases in mosul and elsewhere. general hussein mansour, who runs the weapons supply unit for the south, took us to see just how old fashioned their weapons are: >> this is from 1955. >> warner: 1955? >> warner: the general's phone rang constantly, with requests from commanders in the field, demanding more weapons. >> this is what isis has, this is what we have exchange. >> warner: inside his operations center, mansour explained further. >> unfortunately, our weapons are very old, left over from saddam's regime, and we do not have sufficient ammunition. we are supporting our peshmerga fighters as much as we can. but we really need help to acquire modern weapons, because we think this fight is a long- term war, and it will not end easily. >> warner: was that the problem in jalawla? >> there, we have problems larger than weapons. arabs in those towns support isis, that's the bigger problem. jalawla has always been a bastion of baathist support, there are 1,200 former high ranking baathist offices there. it's always been a bastion of terrorists, even when the americans were here. >> warner: to test that notion, we had mohamed mala hussein, mayor of khanequin where the peshmerga are based, take us in his convoy of heavily armed men to meet one of the many sunni arabs he said have fled to khanequin from jalawla. amer yusef, a successful contractor, left with his family of 13 in june as islamic state began infiltrating jalawla. he has a decidedly negative view of the islamist group. >> ( translated ): they are a terrorist organization that wants to harm us. they have harmed most of the families that have stayed in the town. >> warner: we've talked to a lot of people who've fled iraq who say, "all the arabs are supporting isis" >> ( translated ): i have a close friend who was member of the municipality, my neighbor, and he is a sunni arab. they killed him few days ago. >> warner: isis is saying they're doing all of this in the name of pure islam. >> no! they are enemy of everyone, they are everyone's enemy. who are they killing the most? christians or muslims? they have killed mostly muslims, both sunnis and shiites. >> warner: to halt the islamic state's onslaught here and throughout iraq, the kurdish commanders were say they need more american help, including the weapons they say they have not yet received. back at our spot overlooking jalawla, general sengawi had an ominous warning. >> they should help us. i tell you, if they succeed in occupying our country, they next will take the battle to america. >> woodruff: and margaret joins me now from irbil. that was quite a report, margaret. we are hearing there is fresh fighting today in the same place where you were yesterday between kurdish fighters and these shrank extremists. >> jude y, certainly kurdish and british web sites are reporting the peshmerga forces launched a new assault against jalawla today and in fact took an eastern district which is exactly where we were, i was in that crow's nest outpost at the end with the generics and a senior kurdish official confirmed that to me tonight. the guardians are reporting this action was supported by u.s. airstrikes and syncom said they had launched strikes in addition to near the dam. we don't know if they are related. >> woodruff: what can you tell us about whether the kurds are getting weapons from the u.s.? >> oon the long drive home from the shoot yesterday i called a senior kurdish official and reported what the commanders said and he said take it with a grain of salt. commanders always like to say if things aren't going too well they didn't have the right weapons. he said u.s. and allied weapons are getting through, though many may be directed at areas of higher priority for the u.s. like the peshmerga forces assaults to retake the mosul dam. separately, a military analyst here told me that part of the problem is distribution among the two different political factions of the kurdish forces and that since the weapons are being funneled and they are being funneled but it's through the political party of the president, president barzani, the so-called kdp, and that the other political party who makes up part of the goth called the p.u.k. is getting the short end of the stuck and the forces we were with yesterday were with the p.u.k. so basically this country is not only divided among sunni arabs, shiite arabs and kurds, but, in fact, even within each ethnic or sectarian group which gives you an idea of how complicated it is, i think, to put this country back together. >> woodruff: a lot of complexity to pull apart. margaret warner from erbil. thank you and stay safe. >> thank you, judy. >> woodruff: next, with the emmy awards ceremony coming up monday night, we take a look at one the most celebrated shows of the season. hari is back with that. did you ask that question? i read that you're not supposed to ask that. >> you read that? you do studies for prisons? >> sreenivasan: orange is the new black, netflix's most popular original show, follows the story of piper kerman, a white, middle class woman sentenced to 15 years in prison for a drug crime. >> i'm here to surrender. oh, okay. did he look surprised to you? when i said i was here to surrender. didn't he look surprised? >> i didn't notice. he did to me. >> sreenivasan: in 2004, in real life, piper kerman spend st prison in danbury connecticut ct and wrote a book called "orange is the new black." it brought life behind bars for women to light. she advocates for prison reform. she testified at a senate judiciary hearing on solitaire confinement earlier this year. >> there are egregious examples of solitaire confinement used by prison officials to hide horrific systemic sexual abuse under their watch. the terrible threat of isolation makes women afraid to report abuse and serves as a powerful disincentive to ask for help or justice. >> sreenivasan: the series has already won three emmis and is nominated for nine more. piper kerman joins me now mentd whaferred.what's it like to seen of your life turned into a tv show and nominated for emmys? >> it's good to see the consequences of a mistake turn into something that has such far-reaching impact and that is really thrilling. i think every writer probably fantasizes finding an audience and finding readers because you would never finish a book orthowise, but it is really humbling and gratifying to see such an amazing adaptation by jinji cohan and gain such claim and reach so many people. >> sreenivasan: what are the central ideas about a woman's experience in prison you think people still don't get? >> i think people don't necessarily recognize that women are a crystallizing example of people we have put in prison over the last 30 years that we never used to put in prison. so people convicted of low-level, non-violent offenses, that is an accurate description of most women in prison or jail today, and sometimes, you know, those women are sent to prison for really long times. you know, i was so fortunate to only go to prison for a year, for 13 months, but many of the women that are doing time i was with are doing a lot more time, again for non-violent offenses. >> sreenivasan: you've testified regarding solitaire confinement but mental illness has come through in a couple of the characters in the story line as well. >> it's a very accurate depiction on the show. a huge percentage of prisoners and an even more significant percentage of female prisoners suffer from mental health problems and sometimes very acute mental illness. it's a big part of what drives their involve in crime, sometimes. the real issue is confinement, incarceration does not make mentally ill people better. in fact, it has terrible impacts. the most extreme example, being in school tear confinement. >> sreenivasan: people are interested because this character gives you a lens of how women of color are getting into the system, latino americans, frearns african-amer, and the chaplain is not seeing all the circumstances that brought them here off. >> when i chose to write my own story, i thought it was possible if i did a good job, i might get someone to pick up a book about prison who might not otherwise read a book about prison. that was my hope in tell my own story. we have the biggest prison population in the world and the biggest prison population in human history in this country and the vast majority of people in our prisons and jails come from the poorest and most vulnerable communities. i think that anything that helps us recognize those folks as human beings and their lives as having meaning and value is really important. there can be no question that not all americans are policed equally, not all americans are prosecuted equally and not all americans are sentenced equally, and that's a real problem. that's something that should concern everyone. >> one of the things many viewers ask me about is there's a tremendous amount of sex in the tv version of the program. how much of that is real and how much hollywood? >> for me, my 13 months in prison were celibate. that doesn't mine others weren't having sex. my book will find lots of differences between the show and my own experience and one was my own experience was much more chaste. human beings are sexual creatures and that the true even if you put them in a cage. >> sreenivasan: you had an infrastructure, a job to go to when you came out, things that are important when someone comes out of prison. >> i had a safe and tabl stablee to live, a job to start the week i came out of prison. the vast majority of the women i was in prison with didn't have many of those advantages. many of the women i did time with have come home successfully. a small handful of the women i know have gone back to prison and that's really heartbreaking. for the people i know who have done the best since they came home in terms of turning their lives around, in terms of moving forward in a really positive way, their relationships with their families and the families' readiness to sort of be there as a resource for those people was, i think, the number one predictor and that's why it's so important if we choose to incarcerate a person that we make sure they stay connected to their community and family because that's the thing that will ult pli determine if they return home to the community safely. >> sreenivasan: piper kerman, thanks for joining us. >> thank you. >> woodruff: as the new school year approaches, teachers have come to expect that many of their students will have forgotten some of what they learned earlier. it's called "summer learning loss" and some teachers believe it's inevitable. are they right? special correspondent for education, john merrow of learning matters reports. urn to page 3, please. he traditional educator's remedy for summer learning loss is more of the same. more hours and more days of classes and, of course, summer school. >> we're on page 4 -- but suppose there is another solution. >> good morning spring board families. >> when school enlists family members as partners to help teach the children. that's what's happening here at russell byer's charter school in philadelphia. >> darker and darker. then what? for five weeks this summer, sarah helps six and seven-year-olds get better at reading. >> we'll talk about our new reading tips which is making predictions. >> they're also teaching parents and other family members ways they could help. >> we are coaches. i'm a coach when they're here and you're the coach when they're at home. the parents come in on wednesday mornings. whatever schools we have been working on in class, i get to not only share that with the parents but then have them practice it with the child. >> just to look at this one for an example -- >> reporter: they pass along techniques parents can use to get their students interested in books. >> if i were to look at the picture, i would ask what do you see. ask effective questions while you're reading with your child. >> reporter: taking what she calls picture walks is one technique. before reading, look at the pictures and talk about them. >> which one is the traffic light? >> reporter: she also teaches parents techniques for sounding out words. >> can you practice the word sofa for me? ready, go! (repeating) >> again. >> reporter: ramadi's father joined her every wednesday for the one-hour workshop. they make you teachers? >> it's a partnership. it was a learning process for me and my daughter. >> the love a parent has for their child is the single greatest and most underutilized natural resource in education. >> reporter: alejandro gacartigas is the founder of springboard collaborative, the nonprofit organization that manages the summer reading program. serves kindergarten through third graders in low-income communities and this summer operated in 17 schools in philadelphia and camden, new jersey. the program inspired b by doc artiz's discovery his first graders lost ground in the summer. >> i found i was unteaching and damaging these children and i ask other teachers why are they further behind? and everybody told me in this matter of fact way, that's just the summer slide. they spoke about it as if it were inevitable that growing up poor, for every two steps forward you take in the year you will take a step back. >> but doc, a 21-year-old rookie unschooled in the conventional wisdom about summer slide didn't buy it. >> ultimately, i began to realize summer learning loss is a symptom of a deeper problem which is low-income parents have been left out of the process of educating their kids. we approached their families as liabilities rather than as assets. (reading) >> reporter: determined to test his belief parents and teachers should be partners, doc quit teaching and raised enough money for a pilot program in 2012, the results were promising and spring board was launched. >> we had 94 parents attend every workshop, learned how to teach their kids to read at home. kids not only avoided the three-month regression but made two to three-months progress in the summer. >> reporter: the second year was equally as positive results. >> by tracking the kids a full calendar year, we've more than doubled their annual reading progress. >> reporter: spring board collaborative finished its third summer. the school select students and d assign teachers from the own class to teach the classes. spring board manages and charges fees up to $550 a student. making parents and teachers partners, giving parents reading strategies to use at home. this may be unconventional, but according to these families, it works. do you find you actually use these strap strategies at home? >> yes, always. it helps because we try to use our old strategies that we had. they're bad. we don't do that no more. >> look at the picture. look at the picture if you don't know it. >> clouds? yes. i've never been in a partnership like this before. it's given me a lot to teach my grandchildren. >> reporter: after two years at spring board, addison is a much better reader. >> she was struggling a lot with letter sounds. what i noticed most about her, it was really hindering her confidence. she came back this year and it is a different kid. the confidence she has is unbelievable. >> reporter: in addition to reading together, the program encourages parents to let the kids see them reading thiern own -- their own. >> right now i'm reading a book about obama. i haven't read in a long time so it was fun for me to pick up a book and start reading, too. >> this is something fun we have been doing in class. >> reporter: doc hopes to expand springboard beyond the current number of schools and offer it as a year-round program but he face as tough challenges. >> a school principal watching the program, they say, i can do most of this, i don't have to bother with spring board, would that with okay with you? >> it would be fine. i want our conversation around national education to include families. the reality, though, is that we have been able to amass institutional knowledge about how to do this effectively in a way that most principals don't want to worry about at the end of a long school year. >> nevertheless, russell byer's new principle says they may be better served by dropping springboard and they may use their own programs to cover more subjects and reach more students. not just reading. >> woodruff: now to the analysis of marcus and gerson. that's washington post columnists ruth marcus and michael gerson. both mark shields and david brooks are away. we welcome you both. so this has been a tough week for news both in this country and overseas, but let's start, michael, with ferguson, missouri, the aftermath of the shooting of this young teenage black man. it's only been two weeks since it happened. are there already lessons that come to us from this? >> well, we're two weeks out but we still don't know some of the basic facts and we feed to take it seriously. it's hard to interpret events when you don't know all the facts. so put that aside. but there are some context issues that surround this that we do need to take seriously. one of them is really this was a police force that was in over its head, five different agencies trying to cooperate, not cooperating very well. we have serious questions about the militarization of police, and that's a serious set of issues. i think it also makes the point that that trust between a community and a police department, which is so essential, can't be summoned in an emergency if it hasn't been built up over years. and that contrast between the composition of the community and the composition of the police force added to the tensions when the strains came, and that's something you have to deal with over a long time. i have one more thing. it also points out there are some communities that really have been isolate from american prosperity, some communities like african-american males that feel disconnected from the promise of the country. right now we deal with a lot of that through criminal justice, but we need other ways to deal with that and do outreach to communities in america rather than just police action. >> they're right before our eyes but we don't see them. >> i agree with everything michael said. i take two additional lessons here and they're lessons in what not to do in situations like that. number one, you make an important point, we still don't have really basic facts about what happened. one of the reasons for the ferocious, angry response of the community was the lack of information, the failure to get out really basic information, what happened, how many shots were fired, why was this body allowed to stay there for so long, get out some information quickly to tamp down some of the anger, even if the anger is justified, and number two which is related, it's a lot harder to contain a wildfire once it erupts, if you have people speaking to the community in a way that can calm them down later on, it's easier to contain the anger than when it starts to mushroom and spread. >> should people in the community, nationally, michael, expect justice to be done in this situation? what should the expectation be? especially now that you have the federal government, the attorney general eric holder there a day this week? >> i they should expect justice to be done. the problem in these cases, justice is not always done quickly. sometimes it takes a long time. the primary actors as far as justice are concerned are an elected local prosecutor and a grand jury that's begun to receive information. that's where the criminal case is take place. the justice department, i think eric holder played a good role in coming in, being reassuring in the community that the gerld government was focused in sending gibb agents. there were dozens on the ground to try to make sure that the information, the witnesses were all surveyed. all that was good. he can't be seen, though, in my view, as straight elbow out the local authorities. there may be a civil rights case here eventually but the primary action now is the local. >> how do you see the justice department -- >> in terms of the justice department question, the justice department traditionally have come in when local processes have failed. we don't want local processes to fail. the case people will most remember is after the rodney king beating, a state jury acquitted the officers, then the justice department, many years later, after the rioting that ensued, came in. that was an example of the state system failing. we would all be much better off if the state system worked here. >> that took years to work itself out. >out. but the question of whether justice was done really depends on what facts are brought forward. it is hard to imagine a situation in which an unarmed young man is shot justifiably by an officer, six or more times. however, we don't know exactly what happened there, and there are cases where officers are in reasonable fear for their safety, there have been allegations that he was charged at. justice may be bringing the case, justice may potentially be not bringing the case, and that's where you really have questions about the trust of this community in its prosecution. we need to know more facts, but it's obviously, thank goodness this week is a quieter week, but obviously a very volatile situation. >> the community has quieted down but you're right, so many questions still out there. let's turn over to the story that dismayed everybody this week, and, michael, the terrible, horrible murder of the american journalist james foley by the islamic state group, a man standing there with a black costume uniform on, british accent. what more do we now know about this group i.s.i.s., i.s.i.l., the islamic state, based on this? >> i think we feel it more directly because of the images but we knew it. for months, i.s.i.l. has been murdering people broadly wherever they gain control and sometimes even reportedly putting their heads on pikes. this is the most brutal and evil type of group that you could imagine. the british accent here, by the way, points to a reality -- there are horn hundreds of westn recruits to i.s.i.l. that have gone to syria and perhaps to iraq in this, and there are people who have western passports. because of our visa system, they can get back in the united states. american intelligence is very, very concerned about this prospect. >> that's right. everyone knew this was a serious threat, but now it's even more serious? i mean, how many more levels of serious is there? >> it's not a more serious threat, but in a sad, horrific way, perhaps it's a threat we as a country and as the obama administration will now be taking more seriously, be empowered to take more seriously because this group is not going away. it is only getting bigger, getting stronger, getting fiercer. there is this strange competition among terrorists to show who's got the most street credit -- i'm actually stealing a line of mike's -- to show their bona fide in terms of terrorism, which incentivizes them, in fact, to be thinking about and plotting to send people -- look at all the attention that they've gotten with this beheading. imagine how much attention they would get with a terrorist incident in europe or, god forbid, in the united states? and we need to bring some good out of this horrible, savage act, which is to take it seriously and respond with appropriate seriou seriousness. >> woodruff: well, the administration and the president is certainly talking tougher. what does that mean? are we hearing that the administration, that the president, that they now know how far they want to take the fight? >> well, no. they've made serious tactical shifts. we've got over 90 air attacks since the beginning of this campaign. they're defending erbil, baghdad, but we don't know if they have made a strategic shift. the strategic shift would be that we're going to end the i.s.i.s. safe haven which is now as large as new england across two countries and we're going to build a regional coalition over many years in order to end this safe haven. we haven't heard that. the high level administration people talked about containing the threat, talked about defeating the street, destroying the threat. these are all different things. they're not the same thing. there could be a serious internal argument happening right now in the administration about what the strategy should be. >> but you do see the shift. the president just a few months ago was talking about this group as a kind of j.v. team. no one's talking about them as a j.v. team anymore. the president just this week talked about extricating the cancer. as if you can just pluck it out. i don't think it's going to be that easy. but i thought the most interesting commentary came from general dempsey, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff who was very clear that if you want to get rid of this group, it is going to require being in syria, a place that the president has not wanted to be. but you can see with both general dempsey's comments and the comments of the policy makers and the political appointees about the dangers this group poses, they're getting ready to prepare the american public and congress to do way more than what we have been doing. >> woodruff: are you saying the president himself has shifted on this as a result of this one terrible murder of this journalist? >> no, i think that the shift from j.v. to, oh, my goodness, we're in the big leagues now, happened before this murder. it happened as the state just metastasized to continue with that metaphor, and they were able to have such victories on the ground that it was clear this was going to be a big problem, and then came this horrible act. >> we'll see where the policy goes, but right now there's a serious gap between the scale of the diagnosis of the problem which chuck hagel, for example, causes a problem like one we've never seen where eric holder says it's the most frightening he's seen as attorney general, the terrorist threat, and the scale of response which is not equal to the threat but seems to be moving in that direction. >> but you still have an american public who is war wary, by all counts, so how do you bring them along? >> i want to say it in a way that reflects the horror the foley family has had inflicted on them, but, in an odd way, having this quasi public beheading actually helped move the american people because we're not going to tolerate and that it really underscores the seriousness of the threat. >> woodruff: do you see the public moving? >> i think the president, for example, did not act in syria because he said the public will oppose this. we've now had a bombing campaign in iraq against a very serious threat and the public has not risen up in public opinion against this. in fact, the political class, republicans and democrats have been very supportive. >> woodruff: well, it's been a terrible week and let's hope there aren't many more like this. ruth marcus, michael gerson, we thank you. >> thank you. >> woodruff: finally tonight, a fundraising and internet phenomenon that is sweeping the country. the a.l.s. ice bucket challenge. we start with a little background. >> i'm steven spielberg and i'm accepting the ice bucket challenge. >> woodruff: from award-winning movie directors, to lebron james and other all-star athletes. >> a.l.s. challenge, ahh! >> woodruff: from former president george w. bush and wife laura-- >> to you all who challenged me, i do not think it's presidential for me to be splashed with ice water so i'm simply going to write you a check. >> that check is from me, i don't want to ruin my hairstyle. >> woodruff: --to, even, kermit the frog. >> three, two, one... >> woodruff: scores of celebrities and thousands of others have posted videos of ice water being dumped over their heads. it's all to raise money to battle a.l.s., a disease that destroys nerve cells in the brain and spinal cord and generally proves fatal within three to five years. there is no cure. credit for the idea goes to 29- year old pete frates, a former star athlete at boston college, who was diagnosed with a.l.s. in 2012. but not everyone approves. officials in drought-stricken california are urging people to "use good judgment" on whether it's a wise use of water. and one mass "challenge" event turned tragic yesterday. two firefighters in campbellsville, kentucky, had just sprayed water on a college band when their ladder got too close to a high-voltage power line. the two were badly burned, with one in critical condition. still, the social media craze has raised more than $53 million dollars for the a.l.s. association since the end of july. that's up from $2 million in the same period last year. >> woodruff: for a look at the challenge and the charity at its center, i'm joined by barbara newhouse, president and ceo of the a.l.s. association. to the "newshour". >> thank you, judy. >> woodruff: to this has taken off hike a storm. did you have any idea when pete and his family issued the challenge that it was going to lead to this? >> no, there's no way. i don't think anybody could have predicted what happened with this. it's a new age with social networking. >> woodruff: what do you think has made the difference? how do you explain it? >> you know, i believe with all my heart that what makes the difference is this started so organically because it started with families and people with a.l.s. and took off from there. i don't think you could come in and bring your development staff and your marketing staff and come up with something that is going to do what this did. it had to come from the heart and the families. >> woodruff: so how much has your association been pushing since it started or has it all been out there? >> well, it's all been out there. we did one email, and that was very early on. so back on august 6, we did one email -- >> woodruff: just a few days ago, or seems like it. >> one email on august 6 to 60,000 people, and that was it, and we have had to do nothing since then. iit has just had a life of its own. >> as you and i were discussing, it's raised over $53 million. >> yes. >> woodruff: what will this money go toward? how will it make a difference in the lives of people with a.l.s.? >> first of all, the mission of the a.l.s. association is three-pronged. so research is a part of our mission, care service is a part of our mission for quality of life while people are living with a.l.s. and then advocacy. so this money is going to make a big difference. we will be doing a lot on the research front, but we will also be recognizing that we have people who have needs every day, and we will be looking to meet those, too. working through our 38 chapters across the country. >> woodruff: so prevention, the research that would lead down the line, down the road potentially to prevention, a cure, is part of it, but you're saying also to treat those who have a.l.s. and will have it. >> right now, we don't have any good treatments, really, and we certainly don't have a cure. so we do want to make sure that we are being very thoughtful about how these dollars are spent on the research front as well, because whatever we do in research care services and even advocacy have to be sustainable. so we need to be very thoughtful about that. >> s>> woodruff: so when you say you need money for treatment, that there's no good treatment, what would treatment consist of? >> part of our research is around drug therapies, to see what kinds of drugs will be helpful to an individual with a.l.s. so those are the kinds of trements we're talking about. >> woodruff: is there relief at this point for someone who is diagnosed with a.l.s.? >> throughout the country, we have a.l.s.-certify clinics, and those are partnered with large research institutions, also very large hospitals, and individuals with a.l.s. can come in and they have what i would call an integrated approach to their healthcare, including not only meeting with a neurologist, but a p.t., o.t., nutritionist, social worker. >> woodruff: so some of this money will go to improving all that. >> yes aivment fire storm but in a good way. barbara newhouse, president of the a.l.s. association. thank you. >> thank you. >> woodruff: calculation congras on what's happened. >> thank you. >> woodruff: one note before we leave the subject. earlier today, gwen and i had our own encounter with the ice bucket challenge, here's a look. >> ifill: here to join us are other members of our pbs family who are too happy to do this. our staff. hats off. here we go! (screaming) >> woodruff: it was cold! but it was, as you heard, for a good cause. you can see the complete video of the dousing on our web site pbs.org/newshour. i will have to say our staff also posted it in slow motion because they enjoyed watching our reaction so much. >> woodruff: again, the major developments of the day. the u.s., the u.n. and nato condemned russia's move to send a humanitarian aid convoy into ukraine without kiev's permission. sunni lawmakers in iraq pulled out of crucial talks to form a new government after attackers killed 64 people at a sunni mosque. and the white house left open the possibility that military attacks on "islamic state" forces might extend beyond iraq, and into syria. on the newshour online right now, musical artists respond to the killing of teenager michael brown in ferguson, missouri. see how contemporary songwriters have put their protests to music on art beat. all that and more is on our web site, newshour.pbs.org. and a reminder about some upcoming programs from our pbs colleagues. gwen ifill is preparing for "washington week." tune in later this evening for a round up of the week's political news. and tomorrow's edition of pbs newshour weekend looks at the accuracy of background checks designed to keep the workplace safe, and how some errors can dramatically disrupt job candidates' lives. and we'll be back, right here, on monday, to kick off a new series looking at changes in higher education. join us all week for "rethinking college." that's the newshour for tonight, i'm judy woodruff. have a nice weekend, thank you and good night. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> carnegie corporation of new york. supporting innovations in education, democratic engagement, and the advancement of international peace and security. at carnegie.org. >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions and... friends of the newshour. >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. captioning sponsored by macneil/lehrer productions captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org >> this is "bbc world news america." >> funding of this presentation is made possible by the freeman foundation, newman's own foundation, giving all profits to charity and pursuing the common good for over 30 years, and union bank. >> at union bank, our relationship managers work hard to know your business, offering specialized solutions in capital to help meet your growth objectives.
>> i think that the love a parent has for their child is the single greatest and most underutilized natural resource in education. >> woodruff: and it's friday, ruth marcus and michael gerson are here, to analyze the week's news. those are just some of the stories we're covering on tonight's pbs newshour. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: ♪ ♪ moving our economy for 160 years. bnsf, the engine that connects us. >> i've been around long enough to recognize the people who are out there owning it. the ones getting involved, staying engaged. they are not afraid to question the path they're on. because the one question they never want to ask is, "how did i end up here?" i started schwab with those people. people who want to take ownership of their investments, like they do in every other aspect of their lives. >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions and... >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> sreenivasan: the tensions between ukraine and russia spiked today, when a convoy of russian trucks rolled across the frontier. the move drew widespread condemnation. hari sreenivasan has the story. >> sreenivasan: after more than a week of waiting, a stream of white trucks crossed the ukrainian border without the kiev government's approval. russian officials said the trucks carried only food, water, generators and sleeping bags. >> ( translated ): we can't tolerate this kind of outrageous situation, bare-faced lie and all pretexts to postpone the aid delivery to the people in the area of humanitarian catastrophe are over. the russian side has decided to act. we warn of any attempts to disrupt the purely humanitarian mission that has been prepared long ago. >> sreenivasan: the ukrainian government said it would not use force to stop the trucks, but it condemned the russian move. >> ( translated ): we call it this way: this is a direct invasion, these are military vehicles, these are military men with fake documents. these are military men who have been trained to convoy cargo, trained to drive combat vehicles, tanks and artillery. this is why this situation is so dangerous. >> sreenivasan: the convoy headed for luhansk, a rebel-held city under siege by ukrainian government forces. the first trucks arrived there by mid-day, and many appeared half-empty. ukrainian prime minister arseniy yatsenyuk said that proved russia is lying about the real purpose of the convoy. >> ( translated ): here is their motivation: they are now waiting for several trucks of the so- called humanitarian aid convoy to be simply bombed, and bombed by the russians themselves so that they can tell the whole world, this is a junta which wages war on its own people. >> sreenivasan: the ukrainians further charged the trucks would transport weapons and carry away the bodies of russians killed in the fighting. international criticism also poured in. rear admiral john kirby spoke at the pentagon. >> this is a violation of ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity by russia. russia must remove its vehicles and its personnel from the territory of ukraine immediately. nato secretary general anders fogh rasmussen added his voice, saying: >> sreenivasan: at the same time, russian president vladimir putin, in a phone call with german chancellor angela merkel, discussed possible steps for a cease-fire in ukraine. merkel travels to kiev tomorrow. >> woodruff: in iraq, a deadly new assault today jeopardized efforts to form a new government. 64 people died when a suicide bomber and then, gunmen, attacked a sunni mosque northeast of baghdad, in diyala province. at least 60 others were wounded. it was unclear if shiite militias or sunni radicals from the "islamic state" group carried out the attack. but it prompted sunni lawmakers to quit talks on creating an all-inclusive cabinet. >> woodruff: the white house has signaled that the u.s. military might go after "islamic state" forces inside syria, as well as iraq. yesterday, the chair of the joint chiefs, army general martin dempsey, said that's the only way to defeat the militants. deputy national security advisor ben rhodes addressed the issue today, at martha's vineyard, where the president is vacationing. >> we're actively considering what's going to be necessary to deal with that threat, and we're not going to be restricted by borders. we've shown time and again that if there's a counterterrorism threat, we'll take direct action against that threat if necessary. >> woodruff: overnight, u.s. warplanes carried out more air strikes against "islamic state" targets around mosul, in northern iraq. the u.s. today accused china's military of "dangerous" conduct in an aerial incident on tuesday. pentagon officials said a chinese fighter jet repeatedly buzzed a u.s. navy surveillance plane, coming within 30 feet at one point. it happened about 135 miles off china's hainan island. another u.s. surveillance plane had to land there in 2001 after being hit by a chinese plane. to the middle east, and gaza, where gunmen executed 18 palestinians accused of spying for israel, a day after israeli air strikes killed three hamas commanders. meanwhile, a mortar round killed a four-year-old israeli child. the israeli military said it was fired from next to a u.n. school sheltering gazans. four palestinians died in the latest israeli air strikes. the u.n. human rights office now estimates stunning numbers have died in syria's three-year-long civil war, more than 191,000 people. that includes 62,000 in the last year alone. a spokesman for the u.n.'s human rights commissioner spoke today in geneva. >> people are dying every single day. the rates of killing in syria, if you look at monthly averages, is extraordinarily high. we're talking, i think over the last year, around 5,000 to 6,000 per month. >> woodruff: u.n. officials charged war crimes are also being committed on all sides in the syrian conflict. the death count in west africa's ebola outbreak has surged past 1,400. the world health organization says nearly 300 more people died since the last count, a week ago. more than 2,600 cases are confirmed in four affected countries: liberia, guinea, sierra leone and nigeria. more marches are planned tonight and through the weekend in ferguson, missouri, as street violence subsides. about a hundred people peacefully protested in the st. louis suburb last night. they carried signs and chanted slogans calling for justice in the police shooting death of michael brown. the funeral for brown is scheduled for monday. the obama administration is trying again to end a fight over contraception coverage under health care reform. new rules they announced today say church groups and some companies don't have to pay for birth control, if they notify the government of religious objections. instead, insurers will foot the bill. supreme court decisions in june struck down previous requirements. >> woodruff: federal reserve board chair janet yellen gave little indication today of when the fed might raise interest rates. but, in a major speech, she suggested again it won't be any time soon. wall street's reaction was muted, the dow jones industrial average lost 38 points to close at 17,001. the nasdaq rose six points to close at 4,538. and the s-and-p 500 was down nearly four points, at 1,988. for the week, the dow gained 2%. the nasdaq and the s-and-p were up more than 1.5%. >> woodruff: also ahead on the newshour. why kurdish fighters lack the military might to thwart islamic state militants in iraq. "orange is the new black" author piper kerman on the emmy nominated netflix series. how parents and family can be the key to making sure kids keep learning during the summer break. ruth marcus and michael gerson on the week's news. and, how the a.l.s. ice bucket challenge went viral. >> woodruff: now, to the frontline of the fight to save iraq. one element of the u.s. effort to turn the situation around relies on arming kurdish security forces in their fight with militants from the islamic state group. chief foreign affairs correspondent margaret warner just spent the day with kurdish military leaders as they traveled to jalawla which is not that far from baghdad. here's her report. >> warner: racing south on the highway between iraq's kurdish capital erbil and baghdad, miles of open desert unfold, dotted by villages and towns. but just a quarter of the way down, iraq's most vital commercial lifeline becomes the frontline. "islamic state group" has advanced to within 650 yards of the road. kurdish forces colonel wrya hasan took us to one of many well-manned kurdish peshmerga outposts guarding the new frontier, to show us just how close the islamic state's forbidding flag flew. >> warner: what keeps them from coming right across this highway? >> if they came closer, we could stop them. and we could move their way , but there are a lot arabs living in that area and it would kill a lot of people. >> warner: so it would be a bloody encounter to retake? >> ( translated ): yes it would be bloody, and many civilians would die. >> warner: colonel hasan was escorting us in his armored suv to the town of jalawla, 100 miles northeast of baghdad, in southern diyala province. it's now partly controlled by the kurds since the iraqi army collapsed before the islamic state's onslaught in mid-june. we'd come to explore why, over the past month, the famed peshmerga army, considered one of the best in the region, had also fallen back at several points along its internal frontier against the islamist group. general mahmoud sengawi commands this southern region, and on our way to the front, i asked him why he was now fighting to take back the strategically located town of jalawla. >> warner: how did you lose jalawla on august 11th? >> ( translated ): because there were civilians inside the town, and because we couldn't distinguish those who are isis with those who are not. there were snipers among them and our peshmerga were getting killed. this is why i decided to retreat from jawawla. >> warner: we continued talking behind the shelter of a peshmerga outpost overlooking a two-mile stretch of no-man's land east of jawawla. >> warner: how different are they from any force you've faced before? >> isis is essentially fighting the way islamic fighters did in early centuries when they spilled a lot of blood to occupy other countries. we've never fought anyone like that. >> warner: do you all need to change strategy? >> ( translated ): yes, of course we need to change strategy, these fighters came straight from the streets and we need to learn to fight them in the streets. >> warner: street fighting training is key, says military analyst michael stephens. though he lives in erbil, i spoke with him today via skype from london. >> the general rank and file are not able to do this. they've almost been turned into a checkpoint army. they're basically responsible for static security protection and not the other kind of dynamic advance tactics that isis is using the ground. >> warner: but that's not the only change they need, stephens says. >> the other thing of course is that isis is fighting a new type of warfare that the kurds are not used to. a tank is no good versus mobile units of independently working armored humvees, that are very able to move quickly and that they simply aren't trained for that sort of combat. >> warner: the kurdish forces blame their problems on the lack of the sort of advanced weaponry needed to combat the modern american-made items captured by islamic state forces from iraqi army bases in mosul and elsewhere. general hussein mansour, who runs the weapons supply unit for the south, took us to see just how old fashioned their weapons are: >> this is from 1955. >> warner: 1955? >> warner: the general's phone rang constantly, with requests from commanders in the field, demanding more weapons. >> this is what isis has, this is what we have exchange. >> warner: inside his operations center, mansour explained further. >> unfortunately, our weapons are very old, left over from saddam's regime, and we do not have sufficient ammunition. we are supporting our peshmerga fighters as much as we can. but we really need help to acquire modern weapons, because we think this fight is a long- term war, and it will not end easily. >> warner: was that the problem in jalawla? >> there, we have problems larger than weapons. arabs in those towns support isis, that's the bigger problem. jalawla has always been a bastion of baathist support, there are 1,200 former high ranking baathist offices there. it's always been a bastion of terrorists, even when the americans were here. >> warner: to test that notion, we had mohamed mala hussein, mayor of khanequin where the peshmerga are based, take us in his convoy of heavily armed men to meet one of the many sunni arabs he said have fled to khanequin from jalawla. amer yusef, a successful contractor, left with his family of 13 in june as islamic state began infiltrating jalawla. he has a decidedly negative view of the islamist group. >> ( translated ): they are a terrorist organization that wants to harm us. they have harmed most of the families that have stayed in the town. >> warner: we've talked to a lot of people who've fled iraq who say, "all the arabs are supporting isis" >> ( translated ): i have a close friend who was member of the municipality, my neighbor, and he is a sunni arab. they killed him few days ago. >> warner: isis is saying they're doing all of this in the name of pure islam. >> no! they are enemy of everyone, they are everyone's enemy. who are they killing the most? christians or muslims? they have killed mostly muslims, both sunnis and shiites. >> warner: to halt the islamic state's onslaught here and throughout iraq, the kurdish commanders were say they need more american help, including the weapons they say they have not yet received. back at our spot overlooking jalawla, general sengawi had an ominous warning. >> they should help us. i tell you, if they succeed in occupying our country, they next will take the battle to america. >> woodruff: and margaret joins me now from irbil. that was quite a report, margaret. we are hearing there is fresh fighting today in the same place where you were yesterday between kurdish fighters and these shrank extremists. >> jude y, certainly kurdish and british web sites are reporting the peshmerga forces launched a new assault against jalawla today and in fact took an eastern district which is exactly where we were, i was in that crow's nest outpost at the end with the generics and a senior kurdish official confirmed that to me tonight. the guardians are reporting this action was supported by u.s. airstrikes and syncom said they had launched strikes in addition to near the dam. we don't know if they are related. >> woodruff: what can you tell us about whether the kurds are getting weapons from the u.s.? >> oon the long drive home from the shoot yesterday i called a senior kurdish official and reported what the commanders said and he said take it with a grain of salt. commanders always like to say if things aren't going too well they didn't have the right weapons. he said u.s. and allied weapons are getting through, though many may be directed at areas of higher priority for the u.s. like the peshmerga forces assaults to retake the mosul dam. separately, a military analyst here told me that part of the problem is distribution among the two different political factions of the kurdish forces and that since the weapons are being funneled and they are being funneled but it's through the political party of the president, president barzani, the so-called kdp, and that the other political party who makes up part of the goth called the p.u.k. is getting the short end of the stuck and the forces we were with yesterday were with the p.u.k. so basically this country is not only divided among sunni arabs, shiite arabs and kurds, but, in fact, even within each ethnic or sectarian group which gives you an idea of how complicated it is, i think, to put this country back together. >> woodruff: a lot of complexity to pull apart. margaret warner from erbil. thank you and stay safe. >> thank you, judy. >> woodruff: next, with the emmy awards ceremony coming up monday night, we take a look at one the most celebrated shows of the season. hari is back with that. did you ask that question? i read that you're not supposed to ask that. >> you read that? you do studies for prisons? >> sreenivasan: orange is the new black, netflix's most popular original show, follows the story of piper kerman, a white, middle class woman sentenced to 15 years in prison for a drug crime. >> i'm here to surrender. oh, okay. did he look surprised to you? when i said i was here to surrender. didn't he look surprised? >> i didn't notice. he did to me. >> sreenivasan: in 2004, in real life, piper kerman spend st prison in danbury connecticut ct and wrote a book called "orange is the new black." it brought life behind bars for women to light. she advocates for prison reform. she testified at a senate judiciary hearing on solitaire confinement earlier this year. >> there are egregious examples of solitaire confinement used by prison officials to hide horrific systemic sexual abuse under their watch. the terrible threat of isolation makes women afraid to report abuse and serves as a powerful disincentive to ask for help or justice. >> sreenivasan: the series has already won three emmis and is nominated for nine more. piper kerman joins me now mentd whaferred.what's it like to seen of your life turned into a tv show and nominated for emmys? >> it's good to see the consequences of a mistake turn into something that has such far-reaching impact and that is really thrilling. i think every writer probably fantasizes finding an audience and finding readers because you would never finish a book orthowise, but it is really humbling and gratifying to see such an amazing adaptation by jinji cohan and gain such claim and reach so many people. >> sreenivasan: what are the central ideas about a woman's experience in prison you think people still don't get? >> i think people don't necessarily recognize that women are a crystallizing example of people we have put in prison over the last 30 years that we never used to put in prison. so people convicted of low-level, non-violent offenses, that is an accurate description of most women in prison or jail today, and sometimes, you know, those women are sent to prison for really long times. you know, i was so fortunate to only go to prison for a year, for 13 months, but many of the women that are doing time i was with are doing a lot more time, again for non-violent offenses. >> sreenivasan: you've testified regarding solitaire confinement but mental illness has come through in a couple of the characters in the story line as well. >> it's a very accurate depiction on the show. a huge percentage of prisoners and an even more significant percentage of female prisoners suffer from mental health problems and sometimes very acute mental illness. it's a big part of what drives their involve in crime, sometimes. the real issue is confinement, incarceration does not make mentally ill people better. in fact, it has terrible impacts. the most extreme example, being in school tear confinement. >> sreenivasan: people are interested because this character gives you a lens of how women of color are getting into the system, latino americans, frearns african-amer, and the chaplain is not seeing all the circumstances that brought them here off. >> when i chose to write my own story, i thought it was possible if i did a good job, i might get someone to pick up a book about prison who might not otherwise read a book about prison. that was my hope in tell my own story. we have the biggest prison population in the world and the biggest prison population in human history in this country and the vast majority of people in our prisons and jails come from the poorest and most vulnerable communities. i think that anything that helps us recognize those folks as human beings and their lives as having meaning and value is really important. there can be no question that not all americans are policed equally, not all americans are prosecuted equally and not all americans are sentenced equally, and that's a real problem. that's something that should concern everyone. >> one of the things many viewers ask me about is there's a tremendous amount of sex in the tv version of the program. how much of that is real and how much hollywood? >> for me, my 13 months in prison were celibate. that doesn't mine others weren't having sex. my book will find lots of differences between the show and my own experience and one was my own experience was much more chaste. human beings are sexual creatures and that the true even if you put them in a cage. >> sreenivasan: you had an infrastructure, a job to go to when you came out, things that are important when someone comes out of prison. >> i had a safe and tabl stablee to live, a job to start the week i came out of prison. the vast majority of the women i was in prison with didn't have many of those advantages. many of the women i did time with have come home successfully. a small handful of the women i know have gone back to prison and that's really heartbreaking. for the people i know who have done the best since they came home in terms of turning their lives around, in terms of moving forward in a really positive way, their relationships with their families and the families' readiness to sort of be there as a resource for those people was, i think, the number one predictor and that's why it's so important if we choose to incarcerate a person that we make sure they stay connected to their community and family because that's the thing that will ult pli determine if they return home to the community safely. >> sreenivasan: piper kerman, thanks for joining us. >> thank you. >> woodruff: as the new school year approaches, teachers have come to expect that many of their students will have forgotten some of what they learned earlier. it's called "summer learning loss" and some teachers believe it's inevitable. are they right? special coespondent for education, john merrow of learning matters reports. urn to page 3, please. he traditional educator's remedy for summer learning loss is more of the same. more hours and more days of classes and, of course, summer school. >> we're on page 4 -- but suppose there is another solution. >> good morning spring board families. >> when school enlists family members as partners to help teach the children. that's what's happening here at russell byer's charter school in philadelphia. >> darker and darker. then what? for five weeks this summer, sarah helps six and seven-year-olds get better at reading. >> we'll talk about our new reading tips which is making predictions. >> they're also teaching parents and other family members ways they could help. >> we are coaches. i'm a coach when they're here and you're the coach when they're at home. the parents come in on wednesday mornings. whatever schools we have been working on in class, i get to not only share that with the parents but then have them practice it with the child. >> just to look at this one for an example -- >> reporter: they pass along techniques parents can use to get their students interested in books. >> if i were to look at the picture, i would ask what do you see. ask effective questions while you're reading with your child. >> reporter: taking what she calls picture walks is one technique. before reading, look at the pictures and talk about them. >> which one is the traffic light? >> reporter: she also teaches parents techniques for sounding out words. >> can you practice the word sofa for me? ready, go! (repeating) >> again. >> reporter: ramadi's father joined her every wednesday for the one-hour workshop. they make you teachers? >> it's a partnership. it was a learning process for me and my daughter. >> the love a parent has for their child is the single greatest and most underutilized natural resource in education. >> reporter: alejandro gacartigas is the founder of springboard collaborative, the nonprofit organization that manages the summer reading program. serves kindergarten through third graders in low-income communities and this summer operated in 17 schools in philadelphia and camden, new jersey. the program inspired b by doc artiz's discovery his first graders lost ground in the summer. >> i found i was unteaching and damaging these children and i ask other teachers why are they further behind? and everybody told me in this matter of fact way, that's just the summer slide. they spoke about it as if it were inevitable that growing up poor, for every two steps forward you take in the year you will take a step back. >> but doc, a 21-year-old rookie unschooled in the conventional wisdom about summer slide didn't buy it. >> ultimately, i began to realize summer learning loss is a symptom of a deeper problem which is low-income parents have been left out of the process of educating their kids. we approached their families as liabilities rather than as assets. (reading) >> reporter: determined to test his belief parents and teachers should be partners, doc quit teaching and raised enough money for a pilot program in 2012, the results were promising and spring board was launched. >> we had 94 parents attend every workshop, learned how to teach their kids to read at home. kids not only avoided the three-month regression but made two to three-months progress in the summer. >> reporter: the second year was equally as positive results. >> by tracking the kids a full calendar year, we've more than doubled their annual reading progress. >> reporter: spring board collaborative finished its third summer. the school select students and d assign teachers from the own class to teach the classes. spring board manages and charges fees up to $550 a student. making parents and teachers partners, giving parents reading strategies to use at home. this may be unconventional, but according to these families, it works. do you find you actually use these strap strategies at home? >> yes, always. it helps because we try to use our old strategies that we had. they're bad. we don't do that no more. >> look at the picture. look at the picture if you don't know it. >> clouds? yes. i've never been in a partnership like this before. it's given me a lot to teach my grandchildren. >> reporter: after two years at spring board, addison is a much better reader. >> she was struggling a lot with letter sounds. what i noticed most about her, it was really hindering her confidence. she came back this year and it is a different kid. the confidence she has is unbelievable. >> reporter: in addition to reading together, the program encourages parents to let the kids see them reading thiern own -- their own. >> right now i'm reading a book about obama. i haven't read in a long time so it was fun for me to pick up a book and start reading, too. >> this is something fun we have been doing in class. >> reporter: doc hopes to expand springboard beyond the current number of schools and offer it as a year-round program but he face as tough challenges. >> a school principal watching the program, they say, i can do most of this, i don't have to bother with spring board, would that with okay with you? >> it would be fine. i want our conversation around national education to include families. the reality, though, is that we have been able to amass institutional knowledge about how to do this effectively in a way that most principals don't want to worry about at the end of a long school year. >> nevertheless, russell byer's new principle says they may be better served by dropping springboard and they may use their own programs to cover more subjects and reach more students. not just reading. >> woodruff: now to the analysis of marcus and gerson. that's washington post columnists ruth marcus and michael gerson. both mark shields and david brooks are away. we welcome you both. so this has been a tough week for news both in this country and overseas, but let's start, michael, with ferguson, missouri, the aftermath of the shooting of this young teenage black man. it's only been two weeks since it happened. are there already lessons that come to us from this? >> well, we're two weeks out but we still don't know some of the basic facts and we feed to take it seriously. it's hard to interpret events when you don't know all the facts. so put that aside. but there are some context issues that surround this that we do need to take seriously. one of them is really this was a police force that was in over its head, five different agencies trying to cooperate, not cooperating very well. we have serious questions about the militarization of police, and that's a serious set of issues. i think it also makes the point that that trust between a community and a police department, which is so essential, can't be summoned in an emergency if it hasn't been built up over years. and that contrast between the composition of the community and the composition of the police force added to the tensions when the strains came, and that's something you have to deal with over a long time. i have one more thing. it also points out there are some communities that really have been isolate from american prosperity, some communities like african-american males that feel disconnected from the promise of the country. right now we deal with a lot of that through criminal justice, but we need other ways to deal with that and do outreach to communities in america rather than just police action. >> they're right before our eyes but we don't see them. >> i agree with everything michael said. i take two additional lessons here and they're lessons in what not to do in situations like that. number one, you make an important point, we still don't have really basic facts about what happened. one of the reasons for the ferocious, angry response of the community was the lack of information, the failure to get out really basic information, what happened, how many shots were fired, why was this body allowed to stay there for so long, get out some information quickly to tamp down some of the anger, even if the anger is justified, and number two which is related, it's a lot harder to contain a wildfire once it erupts, if you have people speaking to the community in a way that can calm them down later on, it's easier to contain the anger than when it starts to mushroom and spread. >> should people in the community, nationally, michael, expect justice to be done in this situation? what should the expectation be? especially now that you have the federal government, the attorney general eric holder there a day this week? >> i they should expect justice to be done. the problem in these cases, justice is not always done quickly. sometimes it takes a long time. the primary actors as far as justice are concerned are an elected local prosecutor and a grand jury that's begun to receive information. that's where the criminal case is take place. the justice department, i think eric holder played a good role in coming in, being reassuring in the community that the gerld government was focused in sending gibb agents. there were dozens on the ground to try to make sure that the information, the witnesses were all surveyed. all that was good. he can't be seen, though, in my view, as straight elbow out the local authorities. there may be a civil rights case here eventually but the primary action now is the local. >> how do you see the justice department -- >> in terms of the justice department question, the justice department traditionally have come in when local processes have failed. we don't want local processes to fail. the case people will most remember is after the rodney king beating, a state jury acquitted the officers, then the justice department, many years later, after the rioting that ensued, came in. that was an example of the state system failing. we would all be much better off if the state system worked here. >> that took years to work itself out. >out. but the question of whether justice was done really depends on what facts are brought forward. it is hard to imagine a situation in which an unarmed young man is shot justifiably by an officer, six or more times. however, we don't know exactly what happened there, and there are cases where officers are in reasonable fear for their safety, there have been allegations that he was charged at. justice may be bringing the case, justice may potentially be not bringing the case, and that's where you really have questions about the trust of this community in its prosecution. we need to know more facts, but it's obviously, thank goodness this week is a quieter week, but obviously a very volatile situation. >> the community has quieted down but you're right, so many questions still out there. let's turn over to the story that dismayed everybody this week, and, michael, the terrible, horrible murder of the american journalist james foley by the islamic state group, a man standing there with a black costume uniform on, british accent. what more do we now know about this group i.s.i.s., i.s.i.l., the islamic state, based on this? >> i think we feel it more directly because of the images but we knew it. for months, i.s.i.l. has been murdering people broadly wherever they gain control and sometimes even reportedly putting their heads on pikes. this is the most brutal and evil type of group that you could imagine. the british accent here, by the way, points to a reality -- there are horn hundreds of westn recruits to i.s.i.l. that have gone to syria and perhaps to iraq in this, and there are people who have western passports. because of our visa system, they can get back in the united states. american intelligence is very, very concerned about this prospect. >> that's right. everyone knew this was a serious threat, but now it's even more serious? i mean, how many more levels of serious is there? >> it's not a more serious threat, but in a sad, horrific way, perhaps it's a threat we as a country and as the obama administration will now be taking more seriously, be empowered to take more seriously because this group is not going away. it is only getting bigger, getting stronger, getting fiercer. there is this strange competition among terrorists to show who's got the most street credit -- i'm actually stealing a line of mike's -- to show their bona fide in terms of terrorism, which incentivizes them, in fact, to be thinking about and plotting to send people -- look at all the attention that they've gotten with this beheading. imagine how much attention they would get with a terrorist incident in europe or, god forbid, in the united states? and we need to bring some good out of this horrible, savage act, which is to take it seriously and respond with appropriate seriou seriousness. >> woodruff: well, the administration and the president is certainly talking tougher. what does that mean? are we hearing that the administration, that the president, that they now know how far they want to take the fight? >> well, no. they've made serious tactical shifts. we've got over 90 air attacks since the beginning of this campaign. they're defending erbil, baghdad, but we don't know if they have made a strategic shift. the strategic shift would be that we're going to end the i.s.i.s. safe haven which is now as large as new england across two countries and we're going to build a regional coalition over many years in order to end this safe haven. we haven't heard that. the high level administration people talked about containing the threat, talked about defeating the street, destroying the threat. these are all different things. they're not the same thing. there could be a serious internal argument happening right now in the administration about what the strategy should be. >> but you do see the shift. the president just a few months ago was talking about this group as a kind of j.v. team. no one's talking about them as a j.v. team anymore. the president just this week talked about extricating the cancer. as if you can just pluck it out. i don't think it's going to be that easy. but i thought the most interesting commentary came from general dempsey, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff who was very clear that if you want to get rid of this group, it is going to require being in syria, a place that the president has not wanted to be. but you can see with both general dempsey's comments and the comments of the policy makers and the political appointees about the dangers this group poses, they're getting ready to prepare the american public and congress to do way more than what we have been doing. >> woodruff: are you saying the president himself has shifted on this as a result of this one terrible murder of this journalist? >> no, i think that the shift from j.v. to, oh, my goodness, we're in the big leagues now, happened before this murder. it happened as the state just metastasized to continue with that metaphor, and they were able to have such victories on the ground that it was clear this was going to be a big problem, and then came this horrible act. >> we'll see where the policy goes, but right now there's a serious gap between the scale of the diagnosis of the problem which chuck hagel, for example, causes a problem like one we've never seen where eric holder says it's the most frightening he's seen as attorney general, the terrorist threat, and the scale of response which is not equal to the threat but seems to be moving in that direction. >> but you still have an american public who is war wary, by all counts, so how do you bring them along? >> i want to say it in a way that reflects the horror the foley family has had inflicted on them, but, in an odd way, having this quasi public beheading actually helped move the american people because we're not going to tolerate and that it really underscores the seriousness of the threat. >> woodruff: do you see the public moving? >> i think the president, for example, did not act in syria because he said the public will oppose this. we've now had a bombing campaign in iraq against a very serious threat and the public has not risen up in public opinion against this. in fact, the political class, republicans and democrats have been very supportive. >> woodruff: well, it's been a terrible week and let's hope there aren't many more like this. ruth marcus, michael gerson, we thank you. >> thank you. >> woodruff: finally tonight, a fundraising and internet phenomenon that is sweeping the country. the a.l.s. ice bucket challenge. we start with a little background. >> i'm steven spielberg and i'm accepting the ice bucket challenge. >> woodruff: from award-winning movie directors, to lebron james and other all-star athletes. >> a.l.s. challenge, ahh! >> woodruff: from former president george w. bush and wife laura-- >> to you all who challenged me, i do not think it's presidential for me to be splashed with ice water so i'm simply going to write you a check. >> that check is from me, i don't want to ruin my hairstyle. >> woodruff: --to, even, kermit the frog. >> three, two, one... >> woodruff: scores of celebrities and thousands of others have posted videos of ice water being dumped over their heads. it's all to raise money to battle a.l.s., a disease that destroys nerve cells in the brain and spinal cord and generally proves fatal within three to five years. there is no cure. credit for the idea goes to 29- year old pete frates, a former star athlete at boston college, who was diagnosed with a.l.s. in 2012. but not everyone approves. officials in drought-stricken california are urging people to "use good judgment" on whether it's a wise use of water. and one mass "challenge" event turned tragic yesterday. two firefighters in campbellsville, kentucky, had just sprayed water on a college band when their ladder got too close to a high-voltage power line. the two were badly burned, with one in critical condition. still, the social media craze has raised more than $53 million dollars for the a.l.s. association since the end of july. that's up from $2 million in the same period last year. >> woodruff: for a look at the challenge and the charity at its center, i'm joined by barbara newhouse, president and ceo of the a.l.s. association. to the "newshour". >> thank you, judy. >> woodruff: to this has taken off hike a storm. did you have any idea when pete and his family issued the challenge that it was going to lead to this? >> no, there's no way. i don't think anybody could have predicted what happened with this. it's a new age with social networking. >> woodruff: what do you think has made the difference? how do you explain it? >> you know, i believe with all my heart that what makes the difference is this started so organically because it started with families and people with a.l.s. and took off from there. i don't think you could come in and bring your development staff and your marketing staff and come up with something that is going to do what this did. it had to come from the heart and the families. >> woodruff: so how much has your association been pushing since it started or has it all been out there? >> well, it's all been out there. we did one email, and that was very early on. so back on august 6, we did one email -- >> woodruff: just a few days ago, or seems like it. >> one email on august 6 to 60,000 people, and that was it, and we have had to do nothing since then. iit has just had a life of its own. >> as you and i were discussing, it's raised over $53 million. >> yes. >> woodruff: what will this money go toward? how will it make a difference in the lives of people with a.l.s.? >> first of all, the mission of the a.l.s. association is three-pronged. so research is a part of our mission, care service is a part of our mission for quality of life while people are living with a.l.s. and then advocacy. so this money is going to make a big difference. we will be doing a lot on the research front, but we will also be recognizing that we have people who have needs every day, and we will be looking to meet those, too. working through our 38 chapters across the country. >> woodruff: so prevention, the research that would lead down the line, down the road potentially to prevention, a cure, is part of it, but you're saying also to treat those who have a.l.s. and will have it. >> right now, we don't have any good treatments, really, and we certainly don't have a cure. so we do want to make sure that we are being very thoughtful about how these dollars are spent on the research front as well, because whatever we do in research care services and even advocacy have to be sustainable. so we need to be very thoughtful about that. >> s>> woodruff: so when you say you need money for treatment, that there's no good treatment, what would treatment consist of? >> part of our research is around drug therapies, to see what kinds of drugs will be helpful to an individual with a.l.s. so those are the kinds of trements we're talking about. >> woodruff: is there relief at this point for someone who is diagnosed with a.l.s.? >> throughout the country, we have a.l.s.-certify clinics, and those are partnered with large research institutions, also very large hospitals, and individuals with a.l.s. can come in and they have what i would call an integrated approach to their healthcare, including not only meeting with a neurologist, but a p.t., o.t., nutritionist, social worker. >> woodruff: so some of this money will go to improving all that. >> yes aivment fire storm but in a good way. barbara newhouse, president of the a.l.s. association. thank you. >> thank you. >> woodruff: calculation congras on what's happened. >> thank you. >> woodruff: one note before we leave the subject. earlier today, gwen and i had our own encounter with the ice bucket challenge, here's a look. >> ifill: here to join us are other members of our pbs family who are too happy to do this. our staff. hats off. here we go! (screaming) >> woodruff: it was cold! but it was, as you heard, for a good cause. you can see the complete video of the dousing on our web site pbs.org/newshour. i will have to say our staff also posted it in slow motion because they enjoyed watching our reaction so much. >> woodruff: again, the major developments of the day. the u.s., the u.n. and nato condemned russia's move to send a humanitarian aid convoy into ukraine without kiev's permission. sunni lawmakers in iraq pulled out of crucial talks to form a new government after attackers killed 64 people at a sunni mosque. and the white house left open the possibility that military attacks on "islamic state" forces might extend beyond iraq, and into syria. on the newshour online right now, musical artists respond to the killing of teenager michael brown in ferguson, missouri. see how contemporary songwriters have put their protests to music on art beat. all that and more is on our web site, newshour.pbs.org. and a reminder about some upcoming programs from our pbs colleagues. gwen ifill is preparing for "washington week." tune in later this evening for a round up of the week's political news. and tomorrow's edition of pbs newshour weekend looks at the accuracy of background checks designed to keep the workplace safe, and how some errors can dramatically disrupt job candidates' lives. and we'll be back, right here, on monday, to kick off a new series looking at changes in higher education. join us all week for "rethinking college." that's the newshour for tonight, i'm judy woodruff. have a nice weekend, thank you and good night. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> carnegie corporation of new york. supporting innovations in education, democratic engagement, and the advancement of international peace and security. at carnegie.org. >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions and... friends of the newshour. >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. captioning sponsored by macneil/lehrer productions captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org this is "nightly business report" with tyler mathisen, and susie gharib. >> it's getting better. fed chair janet yellen says the u.s. economy is improving, but not enough to worry the markets about moving up the rate hiking timetable. >> slipping. why buying and then quickly selling houses is back in vogue but this time the game has changed. and stripping. the vegas strip is back, as the first casino in five years opens its doors. we have all that and more, tonight on "nightly business report" for this friday, august 22nd. >> good evening everyone and well company. it's billed as a kind of summer camp for 3407b tear policy superstars. the annual retreat for central bankers hosted by the kansas city federal reserve in jackson hole, wyoming. and today amidst the
first day of class; i wait and see how they perform throughout the semester, and then i evaluate them. >> sreenivasan: and it's friday. mark shields and david brooks are here to analyze the week's news. those are just some of the stories we're covering on tonight's pbs newshour. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: ♪ ♪ moving our economy for 160 years. bnsf, the engine that connects us. >> i've been around long enough to recognize the people who are out there owning it. the ones getting involved, staying engaged. they are not afraid to question the path they're on. because the one question they never want to ask is, "how did i end up here?" i started schwab with those people. people who want to take ownership of their investments, like they do in every other aspect of their lives. >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> sreenivasan: rebels in ukraine consolidated a new conquest today. at the same time, russian president vladimir putin remained defiant amid charges and countercharges over russia's role in the rebel offensive. the border crossing between novoazovsk, ukraine, and russia was quiet today. it's now under the control of pro-russian separatists. in the past 72 hours, the port town has become a new front in the ongoing war for control of eastern ukraine. the rebels claim no russians are helping them, despite ukrainian claims that russian troops have invaded. >> ( translated ): it is the ukrainian authorities fighting against their own people. they are killing their own civilians. there are no russians here, there is no russian equipment coming through here. we are fighting with the machinery they themselves abandon. they just dump them and flee. >> sreenivasan: nato had said satellite images proved russia has 1,000 soldiers and heavy weaponry inside ukraine, but today russia's foreign minister rejected the allegations. >> ( translated ): it's not the first time that we hear all sorts of conjecture, and not once have any facts been presented to us. there have been reports that there are photographs from space showing movements of russian troops, but as it turned out it was computer games and the images were taken from there. >> sreenivasan: that drew a sharp response from nato's secretary general, anders fogh rasmussen, in brussels. >> this is a blatant violation of ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity. it defies all diplomatic efforts for a peaceful solution. >> sreenivasan: ukraine is not a member of nato, but many of the countries it borders are. now, the ukrainian prime minister says his government wants to join them. >> ( translated ): the government of ukraine will bring before parliament a law to scrap the non-aligned status of the ukrainian state and establish a course towards membership of nato. >> sreenivasan: back in russia, at a youth camp, president vladimir putin warned, "it's best not to mess with us," and he ratcheted up his rhetoric against ukraine. >> ( translated ): both small villages and large cities are surrounded by the ukrainian army, which is directly hitting residential areas with the aim you know, it sadly reminds me of the events of the second world war when german nazis, the german fascist army, surrounded our cities, like leningrad. >> sreenivasan: meanwhile, foreign ministers from the european union met in milan, italy, amid calls for new sanctions against russia. and the human toll kept growing. the united nations reported nearly 2,600 people have been killed in eastern ukraine through august 27. leaders of the european union nations meet tomorrow. they've invited the president of ukraine to address the summit. the white house today defended president obama's statement that there's no strategy yet on how to deal with "islamic state" forces in syria. press secretary josh earnest said mr. obama wants an overall plan, including a military component. he said the president is waiting for the pentagon to show him options. >> there are some who probably would make the case that it is okay to not have a formulated comprehensive strategy, but just as one pundit i know recently suggested that we could just go drop some bombs and see what happens. that is not what the president believes is a smart approach. the president believes it is important for us to pursue a comprehensive strategy where military action is one component of that strategy. >> sreenivasan: on another matter, the white house said it's not aware of any specific threat to the united states by "islamic state" militants, but britain raised its threat level today to the second highest alert over concerns of possible attacks. prime minister david cameron said it's largely a response to the growing number of britons and other westerners joining radical islamist groups in the middle east. california lawmakers are the first to pass a bill that redefines what it means to give sexual consent on college campuses. the so-called "yes means yes" bill, which passed unanimously in the state's senate, requires schools to treat consent as an affirmative and voluntary choice. silence or lack of resistance would not qualify as consent. wall street closed out the month of august with modest additions today. the dow jones industrial average gained nearly 19 points to close at 17,098; the nasdaq rose 22 points to close at 4,580; and the s&p 500 added six points to finish at 2,003. for the month, the dow gained more than 3%, the s&p gained nearly 4% and the nasdaq rose almost 5%. still to come on the newshour: a new report traces the origins of this latest ebola outbreak; we take a look at the proxy wars shaking up the middle east; tennessee looks to boost college graduation rates by rethinking its funding model; syrian refugee numbers top three million, with no end in sight to the crisis; shields and brooks on the week's news; and teens react to the michael brown shooting and its aftermath. >> sreenivasan: the ebola outbreak in west africa has now spread to a fifth country amid forecasts that it will get far worse. the latest case emerged despite efforts to stop the virus from crossing national borders. the announcement came in dakar, senegal, a major tourist destination and transit hub that now has its first case of ebola. >> ( translated ): it is a young guinean, a student who came for a consultation on tuesday, august 26, at the hospital in an infectious state without hemorrhaging, but hiding the information that he had contact in guinea with people close to the victims of the disease. >> sreenivasan: doctors confirmed the next day that the man had ebola. he's now in satisfactory condition. nearly 650 people in his home country of guinea have been infected, and two-thirds have died. that's the worst death rate of any country. a new report in "science" magazine traces the outbreak to a funeral on guinea's border with sierra leone in may. at least 14 women were infected there. five local researchers who worked on the paper and collected samples from infected patients have since died of ebola themselves. in all, the world health organization reports 500 new cases this week, the most yet. the director of the u.s. centers for disease control says it could get much worse still. he spoke yesterday in sierra leone. >> if we don't stop it here, we're going to be dealing with it for years around the world. but we can still stop it. >> sreenivasan: and a top official with doctors without borders called today for a far greater international response. otherwise, he said: "i don't see how we're going to control the outbreak." for more on all this, i am joined by stephen gire. he is a research scientist with the broad institute and harvard university, and a lead author on the study published yesterday in "science." so, stephen, tell me, how was it that you were able to go back and trace this spread of the most recent case of ebola virus to one specific event? >> we used both epidemiological data which is data that's collected about people and who they're in contact with when a disease happens, and compared this with genetic data we collected from patient samples and we actually sequenced the full genome of the virus from 78 individual patients and, so, we used this data and the mutations that are there within that virus to actually build the sort of family tree that allows us to see, for one, how these viruses are related to each other but then to see how we can trace them back to their origin. >> sreenivasan: when you got to the root of this particular tree, what is it about a funeral or african burial customs that made this the perfect ground for ebola to spread? >> on may 25th in sierra leone on the border between guinea and sierra leone, there's a funeral that took place of a traditional healer who had been treating ebola patients in guinea and she had herself become sick and died of ebola. at this funeral a large number of over a dozen members at the funeral were actually infected. you notice from epidemiological data, but we also know an attendant from the funeral actually came into the hospital at the government hospital where we work and was diagnosed, so we were then able to go out and find other people at that funeral and then start to build this phylogenetic or family tree of what the virus actually looked like. >> sreenivasan: is it because people come in contact with the bod with that's infected? >> that's correct. you know, the burial practices in a lot of african countries, the people or the friends or family that know th know the ded person usually take part in preparing the body and washing it. just like funerals here in america and around the world, we often interact with the body once it's died. there are open-casket viewings and many people touch the body. the same thing is true in africa as well and this can be part of spreading the disease. >> sreenivasan: one of the most serious costs of the paper is five of your colleagues on the ground became sick and died in the work that they were doing. >> yeah, it's really very tragic. i was on the ground in sierra leone and kenima in early july and as soon as i returned and began processing the samples we collected for the study, we got word a few of the members who had been part of this project had become sick. at that time, it was sort of numbing and you didn't quite accept the fact that they were sick and you had hope that they'd survive. so you kept pushing and doing your work and, you know, then word would come that somebody had died and it would just sink in deep. but, you know, just as hard as people have been working on the ground, we have also been trying to work very hard here to try to get this information out to the public, out to the scientific community so that it can be used in this outbreak and other outbreaks. so we've really tried to honor their memory by continuing to work really hard and push this information out so that it makes a difference. >> sreenivasan: all right, stephen gire, thanks so much for your time and your research. >> thank you. >> sreenivasan: as the obama administration considers further action with partners in the middle east to contain an islamic extremist group, tonight we take a look at the shifting landscape of the region and the challenges it poses for the united states. jeffrey brown reports. >> any successful strategy, though, needs strong regional partners. >> brown: president obama called for alliances yesterday in confronting the "islamic state" group in iraq and syria. >> i'm encouraged so far that countries in the region, countries that don't always agree on many things, increasingly recognize the primacy of the threat. i've asked secretary kerry to travel to the region to continue to build the coalition that's needed to meet this threat. >> brown: but when kerry touches down in the middle east, he'll be stepping into a profoundly muddled situation that's rife with risk. old regimes have fallen, starting with the u.s. invasion of iraq in 2003 and spreading across north africa with the arab spring. in their wake, both sunni and shiite groups, from moderate rebels to the extreme "islamic state," now vie for power and look to like-minded states for help. illustrating the tangled web of new ties, the liberal blog "think progress" has charted the flow of money, weapons and aid between various factions and supporting nations. in syria, for example, regional powers qatar, saudi arabia and turkey have backed the free syrian army against bashar al- assad's government. on the other side, assad's fighters have been helped by hezbollah, the lebanese militia allied with iran. elsewhere, egypt in recent days partnered with the united arab emirates for air strikes on islamist militias in libya. that country's conflict has revealed a sunni split as turkey and qatar back the islamists. and iranian officials were in baghdad sunday for talks aimed at stabilizing iraq against the "islamic state's" gains, a rare intersection of interests with the united states. joining us now to help us understand this new landscape of the middle east is: steven simon, a former senior director for middle eastern and north african affairs on the national security council staff from 2011 to 2012-- he's now a senior fellow at the middle east institute; and hisham melhem, washington bureau chief of al- arabiya news channel. welcome to both of you. hisham, it's a given, the world has changed, right? help us first by laying out the camps, so to speak, that we face. >> as we know, the uprising that began three and a half years ago unfortunately have morphed into civil wars in yemen, libya and sir. i can't syria is a place where there is a conversion of powers. the camps so to speak, the regime in damascus which is islam supported by iran which is the major region of shiite power as well as by hezbollah -- hezbollah's working for certain iranian interests and also supported by militias from iraq. so you have the shia coalition fighting to save the regime in damascus and in that sense iran and syria are more important in supporting the regime t mos cows. then you have sunnis from turkey, jordan, saudi arabia, qatar and others. attracting volunteers, quote, unquote, from the sunni world from africa, the caucuses, from central asia as well as from europe and the united states. this is the 20th century prototype civil war with spain in which everybody in europe fought each other on spanish soil and attracted volunteers from all over the world. syria is essentially our own version of the spanish civil war. >> brown: steven simon, that's complicated enough. you see it playing out all over the place, syria as a focal point but also where. >> well, yeah, syria has become a hot pit for some of the rivalries hisham was just talking about, but the camps can be viewed, likewise, as co consisting of iran and saudi arabia, sort of at the highest level, i guess, and then, within the sunnis, you have qatar and turkey arrayed against saudi arabia and the united arab emirates and even egypt. then you have a tacit alliance between israel and the conservative growth monarchies directed against iran, and boosting egypt. so you have all this overlaid on a sunni and shia sectarian conflict that's been largely mobilized by these bigger geopolitical tensions. >> brown: are these shifting, still, as we sit here or are these pretty well now set at this point? >> that's a good question. i think they've pretty much consolidated. >> brown: what do you think? i think so. i think the sunni-shia conflict, which is really new -- the first time in my lifetime in modern arab, recent history where you have one front stretching from the gulf to the mediterranean. at the same time, there is a new sunni shift and divisions, and you have the iraqi which is breath taking, then a country flying its own jets to egypt to launch an airstrikes against islamists in libya. >> brown: without telling the u.s. >> so you have the camp of egypt, that's another sunni camp, egypt, saudi arabia against the islamists. on the other hand, qatar, turkey and sudan supporting the libyan islamists in libya and other places. so you have two sunni camps under this huge shia-sunni rivalry. and because of sectarian rivalry between the saudis and the iranians and supporters are extremely combustible because sectarianism is a very effective tool and organization because you can frame the issue in existential terms. >> brown: so when we see the president speaking yesterday and the secretary going, how does this impact u.s. policy? that's a big question. how does it impact kerry's ability to form a kohl's against the islamic state? >> complicates it hugely. the united states is trying to thread a needle between states that are fundamentally opposed to assad and states that think that he's actually a good stabilizing force. now, in terms of european partners to which he's appealed, there's very little that they can contribute as a practical matter, militarily, for example. they can make some contributions but not really for the use of force. otherwise, you know, he's dealing with countries that disagree on the role of the actual government in baghdad in terms of spurring the revolt in iraq that the united states is now trying to tamp down. and the administration has also got to ponder the consequences of trying to cut off i.s.i.s. safe haven in syria and attack targets there because the farther west they go the more likely they will be seen as assad's air force and intervening in the syrian civil war at long last but on the side of the regime which will anger some of its very close allies. >> well, yeah. i mean, you've argued when we've had these discussions before for a more forceful u.s. role. >> nothing signature is going to happen in the middle east today without clear-cut, defensive leadership role. >> does that entail picking one? yes, we have to pick one. all thwe have to have leadershi. i'm not asking for american boots on the ground, but leadership, preventing qatar from helping i.s.i.s. in syria, work on a coalition that includes the like-minded spirits or strategic partners and take a decisive role. the problem is lack of american leadership. why would u.a.e., a simple state, go to africa, a different continent, and do what they did last week if they're not convinced there is no middle eastern leadership? they tell you, we don't think the president is assertive enough, whether he waited too long in syria he didn't get rid of maliki i recallly on, didn't push iran hard enough in syria and other places. >> brown: we have about 30 seconds. do you see that strong a role for the u.s., the ability to do it? >> i think you have to accept the fact that there's a serious difference of view on how to deal with some of these major problems both with respect to islamism in the middle east and the conflict in syria. differences are viewed between the united states and its allies that may not be reconcilable. and if they're not, then the u.s. and its allies are going to be proceeding on different paths. when that happens, some will say, well, it's lack of leadership. others will say, sometimes you can't always get what you want. >> brown: all right. on that, steven simon, hisham melhem, thank you very much. >> sreenivasan: now, our final report in our weeklong series on "rethinking college." tonight, we look at a funding model used by more and more states for their public universities. it's all outcome-based. the institutions receive funding based solely on their graduation rates. ♪ >> sreenivasan: four years ago, educators in tennessee became alarmed by a troubling statistic. >> candidates please rise... >> sreenivasan: only 51% of students enrolled at the state's public universities actually graduated. the disturbingly high dropout rate raised questions about higher education. is a public institution really successful if only half its students ever graduate? it was a big question in 2010 before tennessee's commission of higher education. russ deaton is the commission's chief financial officer. >> our schools were very good at opening their doors to students, and the financial precious were not on retaining students and graduating them. >> sreenivasan: so tennessee decided to dump the traditional funding model. instead of paying schools to enroll students, the state now pays schools to graduate students. >> we used to count up enrollments, now we count degrees. how many bachelor's degrees did you produce the last academic year, how many students successfully placed in jobs, how much research did the university do. simply counting up other outcomes. >> seems real easy. >> sreenivasan: now the more students that graduate, the more money the school gets from the state. >> it's trying to find ways to get schools to respond to incentive the same way people respond to incentive. as a professor, i don't grade students the first day of class, i see how they perform throughout the semester and evaluate them. >> sreenivasan: performance based funding is catching fire. 25 states use some form. tennessee was first and most aggressive tying 100% of funds to outcomes. not everyone is happy with the change. in memphis, the new policy cost southwest tennessee community college more than a million dollars. joanne bassett says the new model hurts community colleges especially ones that attract students who struggle. >> we have students whose averaging entering is 16.5%. but we have a short amount of time to get the students finished in two or three years. >> sreenivasan: memphis is the largest poor city in america and basset fears it will force them to be more selective about the students they accept. >> the formula says "find better students, do better, produce better outcomes." we will never do that. we take anybody who has a dream that wants a college education, that wants to rise out of poverty, and we try to do the best that we can. >> what's the first thing we have to do? >> sreenivasan: but at austin peay state university, graduation rates climbed and the school reaped an extra $4 million. >> what are you studying? >> sreenivasan: president tim haul says he worked hard to build strong student to school connections, what hall calls stickiness. >> the stickiness of an institution holds students in place across time. graduation takes typically 120 hours, and the great enemy is life. life is constantly taking students off pathway. so you have to pay attention to how life can redirect peep away from college -- people away from college and try to increase the stickiness of the college experience so life doesn't knock them off course. >> ready for finals? yeah. >> sreenivasan: to create stickiness, experiences are carefully scheduled. >> when we structure time for faculty and students to come together good things happen. >> sreenivasan: like social events for students and professors outside the classroom. >> it might be for an english professor taking students to see a local production of a shakespearean play. for a scientist it might be taking our students on a biological field trip out into some area where they study something that they also study in class. >> sreenivasan: like grouping students into the same classes. >> about 35% of our students this past fall took three courses together. imagine a student who is a brand-new freshman, doesn't know anyone and is wondering, when is the test in that class? i know the professor said. that student might be reluctant to turn around and ask a stranger, but if the student is looking at someone he or she has had in the same class now for several months and more than just one class, they're more willing to ask questions like that. success is built off of such trivial matters as the willingness to ask, to get help, to turn and rely on somebody else. >> go ahead and click on health educators. >> sreenivasan: one of the innovations hall is proudest of a "degree come pass," a computer program that works like amazon.com or netflix. it's a prediction program that predicts how well a student will do in a course. >> it takes every student's academic record and compares it with every other student we have and on the basis we have, it can make remarkably accurate predictions about the courses that you will do well in and the courses that you will do not so well in. >> sreenivasan: advisor ashlee spearman explains how soft pair prevents students from take too many difficult courses at the same time that can lead to failure and dropout. >> we have stats that can show you, you may want to take a specific class, but according to your past this may be more challenging for you, so yeah may want to pair the appropriate courses with that course. so that definitely will help the students as they're matriculating through to graduation to not only take courses that are going to be challenging. you are predicting to do well in the actual course, but the lab you're potentially only going to do 4.5 stars. >> sreenivasan: in tyler milton's case, the system predicted she would need help in extra classes. >> when you're going to college in your freshman year, you don't know how to prepare, you're freaking out, stressed out, away from home. so it's different. but looking at that, i did prepare myself and go to tutoring classes. did i do tutoring because the star system helped? i ended up doing better in some classes. >> sreenivasan: the tennessee model is spreading to other states. austin peay's president timothy hal is moving to a small college in new york state where he plans to introduce the same changes. campuses are thinking how to better serve all students. >> sreenivasan: the three-and-a- half-year-old conflict in syria reached another grim milestone today. the united nations reports that more three million syrians have now been forced to flee their country. jeffrey brown has more. >> brown: most of the refugees have fled to bordering nations, some of which are buckling from the strain of the massive influx. one in four people in lebanon today-- nearly 1.2 million-- are syrian refugees. jordan has more than 600,000 syrians; turkey, more than 800,000. and iraq, now with a growing humanitarian situation of its own, has more than 200,000 refugees. joining me now with more is paul o'brien, vice president for policy and campaign at oxfam. welcome to another benchmark and very large number, first broadly speaking. how significant is that? >> it's significant. it's tragic. we have been watching numbers grow ever since okay familiar started working on the crisis. we have been calling on policymakers both in the region and the united states and globally to do something about it. no one has done enough. so we see a tragic number like today. >> brown: inside syria, how much do we know about the situation, where people are fleeing, how many there are? >> we know it's bad. we know there are 11 million people with humanitarian needs on the ground in syria still. that's half the population. a quarter of million of those we just can't even reach because they're facing so much fear of conflict no one can get near them. oxfam is trying to reach. hard to verify, but we have about a million people with water, digging wells, trucking water. it's a difficult place for oxfam to work. we're doing the best we can but it's hard for all organizations. >> brown: you mentioned humanitarian feeds and said water. >> that's a key one. >> reporter: what else? safety. that's what people really want is the ability to stay where they want. syrians would like to go back but many are reluctant to because of safety. when they don't get safety, we deal with water, food security, shelter, basics fundamentals to get through the day. we're trying to help the population survive until we can start to help them rebuild their lives. >> brown: in these bordering countries, very large numbers. this puts a great strain on these countries. >> yeah, they're buckling. this can't go on. the countries that you mentioned, jordan, lebanon, turkey, the populations of refugees there have grown beyond what they are capable of managing. it's not economically viable, not viable in terms of security and we're going to see the consequences if the international community in general does not help. >> brown: give examples of what is life like in border camps and elsewhere that you are seeing? >> people are literally waiting to live. they are trying to rebuild life. it's been three years so they're trying to eek out an economic livelihood, working with local populations, sometimes competing with local population force jobs, that won't work in the long term as f the numbers keep growing. they're not getting enough aid to give them near the ingredients they need to rebuild their lives. trying to get the money needed to serve these populations, it's $2 billion short in terms of its most recent appeal. actually, it's not the united states that's the problem on the aid front. it's been quite generous relatively speaking. >> brown: so where is the problem? >> well, it's twofold in terms of the donors. other donors are going to have to step up to the plate in some way. we've got to get the kinds of numbers the u.n. is calling for. that's one thing. but because the number of refugees has grown so much and looks like it's going to continue to grow, the neighboring countries cannot be expected to continue to absorb them. so that presents a different question for the united states. is it willing to start absorbing resettlement flows of some of these people. >> brown: that's the question. yes, it is. since the crisis began, we've observed less than 200 syrian refugees. collectively, the europeans have absorbed less than 200,000, but that question is going to keep coming back. >> brown: very briefly, you said it looks as though the number will continue to grow. a sign that 3 million benchmark will be well surpassed. >> and with the iraq situation, it's only likely to get worse. they are sometimes leaving for economic reasons, but fundamentally for security reasons, and the security situation is not getting any better. july of this year was the worst month yet in terms of fatalities of civilians since the crisis started, so it's getting worse. >> sreenivasan: thank you so much. >> sreenivasan: and that brings us to the weekly analysis of shields and brooks-- that's syndicated columnist mark shields and "new york times" columnist david brooks. so the phrase from yesterday's press conference everybody left on is we have no strategy. but since we're the "newshour", we'll go deeper than that. is there a time now in this country and appetite for a national conversation, a congressional debate about whether or not to use force and what sort of force? >> i don't know if there's an appetite. there's a need, an urgency. i want to start off by giving the props or the shout out to three members of the house which is usually an institution that gets much scorn and abuse than those of us in the press. the democrat of california, congressman walter jones, republican of north carolina and democrat jim mcgovern of massachusetts, wrote a letter to john boehner urging the speaker upon return to the house september 8 that they take up the question of iraq and syria and the authorization of added force or whatever it is and define the mission, to debate and to determine just exactly what the united states' policy is and to vote on it. this makes them unpopular with their colleagues. as bob dole said once, members of congress love to make tough speeches but don't like to cast tough votes. and this will be a tough vote, especially near an election, most people don't want to do it. it is necessary. we did not do it 12 years ago. we had a hurried, a rushed election, a debate when democrats were terrified of being accused of being soft on terrorism and they were cowed and we had misinformation and misdirection and tragedy result. i just think it's absolutely imperative and usua urgent. >> i agree. i'm a big fan of presidential action. i think the president has the right to take action in this case, nevertheless for the effectiveness of the action and the good of the country, i think we need a national debate and i think you could probably get a bipartisan support for something. the crucial issue is how we frame this. do we see these as a distinct war in syria, something distinct in lebanon, syria, something distinct in iran? to me, it's what we need this this debate is an appreciation of setback and a appreciation of the problem and this is not what the administration has given us so far. hisham melhem earlier in the program had a good analogy of spanish civil war that you had global mean coming in on two different sides and that's scary because the spanish war was precursor to world war ii. richard haas has called it the 30-year war, a horribly destructive war in europe in the 17th century. so to figure out what we're dealing, with what is al quaida, i.s.i.s., the relationship between the two, with other jihady organizations and how do we get involved in what will be a long-running probably medium-level conflict for a long time to come? we haven't really had the post-iraq debate. >> sreenivasan: shifting to ukraine. each day president vladimir putin are able to increase the rhetoric, whether video game or satellite images of a thousand russian troops crossing the border whether called an invasion, an incursion. how does ukraine deal with this and what is the american role if there is one? >> america has an obligation. in 1994 to get ukraine to surrender its incredible nuclear arsenal at the time, there was a guarantee given by the united states and western democracies and european nations of support and defense and security, and i don't think there is any question that that obligation is on the table right now. the plausible deniability that putin could hide behind has been totally exposed, totally sabotaged for the fraud that it is. this is an attempted on his part, whether an alley, an avenue down to crimea and then his concern about the water port and openness there. but i would think the obligation is there and i think the world is watching him, and n.a.t.o. next week will bring it to a front. >> sreenivasan: is this n.a.t.o.'s responsibility? >> no, it's everybody's. most of the middle east and what happened in ukraine are symptoms of a vacuum, a post in the post-21st century order and partly a vacuum of american power, certainly a vacuum of european cohesion power, certainly an inability of the major countries of the world including china to get together and impose an order that would be good for everybody. when you have no order, the putins of the world get more aggressive. i think a lot of people in the administration have been aggressive rhetorically, they understand the problem. i think the president has not been aggressive enough. this is an invasion. when you take over a part of the country so you can have a land route to crimea, that's an invasion, not a continuation of what they have been doing. it's not low-level harassment, it's a major invasion on european soil. you just can't allow that to happen. to me, the first step has to be if the russians are giving sophisticated material to their proxies, the west has to pour more sophisticated material into our proxies essentially and that's been an issue that has been debated over and over again. but raising costs to putin has to be the first step. >> sreenivasan: if the u.s. makes attacks inside syria, a sovereign nation, is that not a declaration of war? >> i think it's certainly one definition of a declaration of war. that's why i think the debate -- i mean, the debate that we didn't have 12 years ago -- for example, if we're going to do this -- david is talking about 30 years, 20 years, whatever, a long twilight struggle, call it what you will -- i mean, it's a country fights a war. (audio difficulty) >> but you can easily make the case, it will hurt us in the short term if you're a democrat but help us in the long term because it will solidify the latino results. but it's interesting. on matters of stance substance,e with the policy. >> there are 11 million undocumented immigrants in this country, some of whom were brought here as children, had nothing to do about it. but we are not going to -- it is somewhat of a manufactured issue. we're not going to explore, deport, round up 400 million people. so, i mean, this is really -- it is a political issue. >> can't really -- it's effectively changing the law if you say, okay, this is officially not going to happen and congress has to be involved. i hate the idea of president doing this all by himself. >> sreenivasan: in florida, interesting governor's race. morning line, email noted today it would be if charlie crist was able to win, it would be the first time in florida a governor was able to switch parties and succeed twice. could he be successful? >> he could be. the irony of this -- i mean, charlie crist was elected as a republican, as you know, and ran as an independent of the senate and mik marco rubio is running. president obama who is not sought by most democratic candidates except to raise money this year could be of help. when he carried the state, the composition of the electorate was 67% white. the turn out of latinos, african-americans and asians. it was three-quarters white when scott was elected in 2010. the president could be a help to charlie crist. >> sreenivasan: 5 minutes. i'm a little more skeptical. too lefts for the republicans and two rights for the democrats. >> sreenivasan: thanks so much. >> sreenivasan: finally tonight, teens from around the country look at the events in ferguson, missouri, this summer. we asked our network of student reporting labs how the shooting of michael brown and the violent aftermath affected their views of justice and race in america. here is a sample of those responses. >> he did commit a crime in the store and that led to at the vent of his death but that doesn't mean his death was right. >> in my eyes, i don't even think it should get to that point. being that you're an officer, you have to go by a set of rules known as the use of force continuum. so once the perpetrator gets too close into your level, your first defense should be to grab a taser or to use hand-to-hand combat because they are taught that. deadly force is the last, the very, very last method they're supposed to use. >> i thought we were a little bit further along as far as race injustice in america. of course, we still have progress to make, but as far as race injustice and how the police are handling the situation, i had no idea that it could get this horrible, really. >> unfortunately, racism is going to be here for a while as it has been for a very long time. i don't think its fair that we blame all police officers for the action of a very few and i think it's important we wait for every fact to come through. >> disperse immediately. this is no longer a peaceful protest when you try to injury people! >> it makes total sense to me why the general public would feel like there's a loss of meaning in the police, like this idea of police being here to protect and serve you, when there are people in ferguson who are protesting the death of one of their children and the devaluing of young black life, and police respond with tear gas, tanks, rubber bullets, flash grenades? >> what happened in ferguson, missouri is a strategy but also a bit of a logical progression. living in the type of community i do, i see the issues more than some people around the country would, and i feel like it's the start of almost a second civil rights movement because it's the same as the first one started, and that the racial tensions have been building up and reached a boiling point now. >> it really showed that even though segregation is over and we have a black president, equality isn't here. >> you know, you end up thinking police are my friends, police would never harm me. police have my best interest at heart. then you see something like this and you think that's not the way it is for everybody and the events need to change. >> i think the events in ferguson refield to me that racial tensions are still very real in america and they're just something we don't talk about as a society anymore, and it's become kind of a taboo subject, and i think schools should do more to create a dialogue about that so that we can begin to curb those long-lasting prejudices that we have. >> sreenivasan: you can see more student voices as well as a teacher lounge blog with strategies for talking about ferguson in the classroom on our web site. >> sreenivasan: again, the major developments of the day. the world health organization confirmed 500 new ebola cases in west africa this week, the most yet. they included the first case reported in senegal. rebels in southeastern ukraine consolidated their conquest of a key town. they also denied russian troops are fighting on their side. and the white house defended president obama's statement that there's no strategy yet for dealing with "islamic state" forces in syria. a spokesman said the president is waiting for pentagon options. on the newshour online right now: show up early, dress appropriately, don't date the boss-- pretty good job advice to remember as we set off to celebrate the labor day holiday this weekend. our pbs partners at the web site next avenue asked readers for the best lessons they learned from their first jobs, and we invite you to add your best advice. leave a comment on the story or tell us on facebook or twitter. all that and more is on our web site, newshour.pbs.org. and a reminder about some upcoming programs from our pbs colleagues. gwen ifill is preparing for "washington week," which airs later this evening. here's a preview. >> ifill: the debate over strategy tonight whether it's about syria, iraq, ukraine, or american business and politics, we dive into the issues captivating a nation. tonight on "washington week." hari? >> sreenivasan: in tomorrow's edition of pbs newshour weekend, i'll be taking a look at how the islamic state is more savage and media savvy in it's campaign to gain control of iraq, syria and beyond. and we'll be back right here on monday, labor day, with a paul solomon report on how some part- time workers are coping with this slow economic recovery. that's the newshour for tonight. i'm hari sreenivasan. have a nice weekend. thank you and good night. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> charles schwab, proud supporter of the pbs "newshour." >> bnsf. >> carnegie corporation of new york. supporting innovations in education, democratic engagement, and the advancement of international peace and security. at carnegie.org. >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions and... >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. captioning sponsored by macneil/lehrer prodtis captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org >> this is "bbc world news america." >> funding of this presentation was made possible by the freeman foundation of new york, newman's own foundation, giving all profits to charity and pursuing the common good for over 30 years, kovler foundation and union bank. >> at union bank, our relationship managers use their expertise in global finance to meet your objectives. we