example for future first ladies, ellen wilson died just a year and half into the president's term. the grieving president soon met washington businesswoman edith galt. they married after a secret courtship and edith wilson served as first lady for more than five years. her unprecedented role in managing the president's affairs after he suffered a stroke remains are the most controversial efforts of any first lady. tonight, the story of the wilson administration's two first ladies, ellen and edith. we have two tragc deaths here to tell you about these two interesting women and the times in which they lived. her book is allen and edith, woodrow wilson's first ladies. john mills cooper is woodrow wilson's biographer. thanks for being with us. we have been telling the stories chronologically, but everybody knows about edith wilson managing the white house as it is described after her husband suffers a stroke. we will tell that story first because so many people really want to know what happened. john cooper, let me start with you. when in his administration did he suffer a stroke -- >> more than halfway through the second term. it was october 1919. here just returned from a whirlwind speaking tour. he was tried to sell the country on ratifying the peace treaty and going into the league of nations. he had really worn himself out on that and his doctors actually aborted the tour and got him back to the white house. after about five days in the white house, he suffered a massive stroke. >> the story of the stroke night itself is very dramatic or it can you tell us recently what happened that night? >> there are some conflicting reports about what happened, but i think that the most accurate portrayal is that he got up in the morning, edith had been going into check on him during the night and she found him slumped to the floor and couldn't move his left side. she went out into the corridor and used a telephone that did not go through the switchboard. she did not want to have this universally known. she asked the chief usher to call the doctor from this other phone. the doctor came in and they helped him into bed, but he was paralyzed on his left side. >> a character that is going to be a big part of the story is kerry greeson. >> kerry greeson is the doctor. here been inside the white house first under the taft administration and then shortly, taft introduced him to his successor wilson and pretty soon after the inauguration, wilson's sister fell down and grayson treated her and did a good job. and he was a virginian which went a long way with the wilson's. he was the white house physician. he was the one who treats him. they called in various consultant specialists, but grayson was the one who treated wilson. >> what was the extent of his condition? how badly had the stroke affected him? >> he had a blockage in an artery leading to his brain and this is usually not a fatal stroke, but it did immobilize him for a while. he probably would have recovered fairly rapidly had he not 10 days later suffered a second medical condition. he had prostate trouble and he had a urinary tract infection with a very high fever. of course they didn't have antibiotics at that time, they debated whether to operate, but the specialist felt that to operate on a 52-year-old man with high blood pressure and a stroke would have been very unwise. so they just decided to let nature take its course and eventually he recovered, but it really sapped his vitality. this one-two punch really did him in for about a month. >> christie is free to agree or disagree, but i think the worst effect of the stroke on wilson was really on his emotional balance. his judgment also. his intellect wasn't impaired and his speech was an impaired. yes some he could function that way, but so much more goes into being a leader and the president then just being smart and being able to do these things. another thing is, partly because of that other illness that you just talked about, christie, they isolated him. that is when you're supposed to keep away from stress. now they know it is exactly the wrong thing to do. what you want to do with the person who is had a stroke is get them into social interaction. with the best of intentions they were doing exactly the wrong thing. >> dr. grayson's letters are part of the collection at the woodrow wilson library at stanford about two hours from washington. in putting this program together, we will learn more about wilson threw grayson's letters. >> we have a letter in this box from henry morganthau who wanted to write about experiences. so he was asking grayson if he could use certain information. the information you gave me about president wilson and you're having come to the conclusion that he should resign and how he was influenced by mrs. wilson to give up this plan. so mrs. wilson was very concerned that her husband would not get better if he did not have something to engage his mind, that he would just deteriorate if he was forced out of the presidency. while president wilson was ill, it has been speculated widely among historians. we have one document here that sheds a little bit of light on that. it is a telegram from henry morgenthau who was the ambassador to turkey and he is writing to dr. carey grayson asking if the president has any objection to a citizens meeting to protest against turks being left in control of constantinople. and morgenthau has been asked to speak at this meeting. at the bottom of this telegram is edith's handwriting. we are familiar enough with her handwriting to recognize it as such. at the bottom she writes, thinks it well to postpone speaking on such subjects. what we don't know is, did you just take this telegram into wilson, ask his opinion and then write that or did she just come to that conclusion herself. the public was very interested and curious to know the condition of wilson's health. rumors were rampant in the papers, even congressmen didn't know what was going on. they only knew what they read in the papers. after it was all over, carey grayson later wrote a summary of what happened from the time of the stroke until wilson left the white house. on the last page -- the decision was made to announce that wilson was suffering from nervous exhaustion. there were no other details given as to what was wrong with him. really no one knew the extent of his illness. he really was not capable of doing anything. dr. grayson thought it wise to issue general statements only. further, mrs. wilson, the president's wife, was absolutely opposed to any other course. she did not want it to be known that he was really suffering. again, she was protecting her husband and she wanted him to be able to fulfill his duties as president. she was worried about his legacy. ultimately, she was concerned about his health and she felt that if you left the presidency, left the white house, he would just waste away and die. >> so how did they react? >> a couple of different ways. robert lansing who was the secretary of state and would have been fired if wilson hadn't had the stroke, there had been a bad break, that is another story. but lansing tried to get the cabinet in on it and i think he even made some communications with the vice president, who stayed out of it completely. he simply said no. greeted in the constitution. this is before the 25th amendment actually is not as much of a protection as we think in cases of inability. we won't talk about disability this is the inability of the president to do his duties. what does that mean? this means if he were dead the vice president succeeds. this is the one time that we really had a disabled president. how do you deal with it? edith was scared. this was a very scary thing. make it up as you go along. on facebook, david welsh says, what part of personality or intellect prepared mrs. wilson to take over during his recovery? what skills did she bring to this responsibility she was taking on? >> that is a very good question because she had exactly two years of formal schooling and her whole entire life. she came from a large family and had been chosen by her grandmother to take care of her, to be her caregiver. her grandmother was a very opinionated woman and taught edith, basically, that it was good to have opinions and to make decisions. edith had been widowed relatively young and had inherited gault's jewelers which was like the tiffany's of washington. so she kept the jewelry store and had a manager who made a lot of the decisions, but she was used to having everything her way. so she brought this very decided personality. in addition, woodrow had courted her by showing her a lot of secret papers. henry kissinger used to say that power was the ultimate aphrodisiac. i think woodrow wilson would have agreed. so he was using this entré to the secret papers as part of his court ship pier and she was susceptible to that and so he shared a great deal of what he was doing, really a great deal of what he was doing, with her. i think john said that she probably knew as well as anyone what he was doing and what he was thinking because he was a real lone wolf when it came to being a president. he did not have a lot of close advisers. >> that is true. >> this is from edith wilson herself. they published her memoirs. in this big controversy about how much power she took upon herself. here's what she said or did "i myself met never made a single decision regarding the disposition of public affairs. today we know, the gatekeeper to the president is really the most important job. >> he or she controls accent to the president is in some regards president. as she said, it is not just who got to see him, they pretty much embargoed well for well over a month. no one got to see him. but also what the president gets to see. she would decide what was best for him to see and what not. to me, one of the raps on edith in this was that she was putting her husband's health ahead of the good of the country and that somehow the priorities were wrong there. well, i don't think that is entirely why she did what she did. she knew what he wanted. if he couldn't express himself, she knew he would not want to resign. he would want to hang onto this. as christy said, she knew his mind better than anybody else. if anybody was going to act as a substitute, she was the best. >> the secretary of state got lakhdar the cabinet members very thickly. wilson's secretary plus the loyalists like eaker and daniels in the cabinet put a kibosh on that very quickly. >> there were two senators who were detailed to come in and assess the condition of wilson because it came out when lansing went up to capitol hill that he hadn't spoken to the president about a very volatile situation in mexico. they deputized one democrat and one republican and edith and dr. grayson really stage-managed that very well. accounts differ on exactly what they did, but whatever it was him it was enormously successful, including the republican who would have been most anxious to show that there was something wrong with wilson, set to the press afterwards that the president grasped his hand with both of his. but that was impossible because a president could not move his left hand. but he was so taken with his apparent animation. he made a lot of jokes, because that part of his thinking came back for quickly. he loved to make puns and he loved to tell jokes and stories. that came back relatively quickly. but as john said, the judgment was really what took a hit. >> we have a timeline of the president's incapacitation. as john cooper told us it was september of 19 19. it was in march of 1920 when he left the house for the first time. by the way, we have to talk about all of the political intrigue and important decisions going on in the aftermath of world war i. his beloved league of nations was rejected by the senate at that time for the first time. in april of 1920 the president had his first cabinet meeting, eight months not meeting with the cabinet. it is almost unthinkable. how could the cabinet continue? >> i routine. and also, wilson was a great delegator. except in foreign affairs. other than that, he gave his cabinet secretaries lots of leeway. so they were used to running things on their own. it is just very lucky and maybe something of a tribute to that that the government function as well as it did. not all that well, but it did keep going. >> there is a story about edith. all during that time, what really was her role? >> i think one aspect of her role that was overlooked is the extent to which she tried to make woodrow give way on some of his intransigence about the league of nations. in her memoir, which is fanciful in places, she says that she asked him leads to compromise with the republicans in congress to try to get the treaty passed with the league of nations. she said that he turned to her and said, little girl, don't you desert me. she was about five foot nine. she says in her book that she never try to change his mind again. but, we have evidence that there were at least two other occasions on which she did try to change his mind. she and his chief of staff had discussed some of the places where they hoped woodrow could give a little ground and where the republicans could give a little ground and they hoped to find some compromise. she took some notes very hurried, almost shorthand notes of what is obviously a speech that she was going to give to wilson that wound up saying and for the sake of the country and the peace of the world, please consider this. it didn't work, apparently, because he didn't change. she was not a woman to take notes on something and not do something about it. a little bit later, she had some conversations with ray standard baker who is very close to wilson and later became his official biographer. he gave edith some suggestions, again, some talking points, to try to get wilson to change his mind. but he didn't and by the time he refused, by that time the republicans were also heartening their line. some of the hardliners were reeling in the republican leadership. >> so donald on facebook asks if edith ever spoke out publicly on the league of nations. >> she did not speak out on anything. this is again to correct a big misperception of edith. i do not think she was at all power-hungry for herself. she wanted what her husband wanted. his agenda was her agenda. she used to say to people, i never make speeches. i think she made a few, years after woodrow died, but during the time he was in the white house, she was asked to present something innocuous like a bouquet of flowers to the girl scouts and she said i'd like to make a speech, but i never have and i won't. she did not even approve of voting for women. or women's suffrage. >> let's go back in time, but before we goes up the section to reviewers, we thought you'd all want to get this out because it is such an interesting aspect historically. what is the bottom line of this. in american history? how did it affect how we view the role of the president, the role of the first lady and the constitutional issues? >> the role of the president, i mean, woodrow follows theodore roosevelt and these two together acting one after the other, made the president the center of the government, the active part. and even presidents later such as calvin coolidge, especially, who wanted to retreat to the sidelines, couldn't do it trade that is what really changed their. the first lady role probably in terms of -- i think ellen had more to do than edith did. >> that is a great segue because we are now moving into the ellen story. >> tonight is a special two-hour program because we have to first ladies to talk about. our lines will be open and you can reach us if you live in eastover central time zone. you can be part of the facebook conversation, go to c-span on facebook and finally you can tweet us using at first ladies and be part of the conversation. we're going to roll back the clock and talk about the long marriage of woodrow wilson to his first wife ellen. to sit the stage for that we're going to visit the wilson house. it is available for you to visit if you come to the nation's capitol. inside right now in the drawing room is peter. >> we are here with law and home who is the executive director of the house. this is a house where president and edith wilson lift post- presidency. how did they acquire this house? >> they moved here literally the day they left the white house in 1921. this home cost $150,000 and they managed to scrape together the money i assembling both president wilson's winnings as the nobel peace prize winner and also donations from canada's wealthy friends and political supporters. >> edith wilson lived here until her death in 1961. that is 40 years. also them expired in this home. >> in 1924 for president wilson. although it is edith wilson's house a mother is the presence of ellen wilson, isn't there? >> we try at the woodrow wilson house to remember the president's years which include both first ladies, both ellen wilson and edith wilson. it is important when you are considering figures in history to remember that they had childhoods and experiences that led them to the places that they were. >> so what are we looking at here? >> this is a painting painted by ellen wilson who was a painter of considerable talent. even as a young girl she knew that she was a good painter and enjoyed it. it is interesting that when president wilson proposed marriage to her she said yes, but i'd like to go to the art students league in new york, which is where she went to school for a year before they were wed. it is interesting that president wilson at that point in his life accepted that and married this woman who was independent and really laid the groundwork for and understand during of the role of women in society. his last wishes included the wish that this painting hang over his casket before he was laid to rest at the national cemetery. >> we are about a mile from the white house. we will show you some more a little bit later. >> thanks so much. edith was born in georgia in 1860. tell us about her early life. >> her father was a presbyterian minister and he served in the civil war, but he had to leave because of some stress-related conditions. he died in a mental institution, possibly a suicide. allen was very close to her mother, but her mother died in childbirth with her fourth child when she was 43. so ellen really had to take over the family, first after her mother's death she had to take care of her father and then after her father's death she had to take care of her brothers and sister. so she became a very competent manager. she was very well educated for a woman of her time and place. she would have gone to college if she had had the money. when her father died she had the money to go to the art students league in new york for one year. she was very unsure that she would ever meet a man who could be her intellectual equal which she felt was necessary for her marriage. in fact, she had plans to open up a boarding house for women and supported with her artwork and people around town started calling her belly the manhater because she was so clearly not going to be satisfied with anyone in the town. but then woodrow wilson came to town. he was a lawyer at the time, he had a case, he went to church where her father was preaching and he met her there. >> how important was it that both alan axon and thomas woodrow wilson, with the children of ministers? >> in some ways that is the world they grew up in. not so much the u.s. of the south, but the presbyterian church which in many ways is a world unto itself. what it didn't make them though, either of them, and i think this is true of wilson as much as it is of ellen, it didn't make them religious zealots. it did not make them obsessed with religion. in some ways, religion was so central to them that in many ways they could take it for granted. it is in the background. it is always there, it is important, but of the two of them, he was more the good strong believer. she is the one who had the religious doubts. especially because with the various family troubles depression ran really ran in the axon family. probably one brother, eddie, who died in a tragic accident as a young man, was about the only one who wasn't touched with depression. ellen in some ways metaphysically and philosophically she was more curious than wilson was. wilson was much more interested in the affairs of the world, but religion is a background. >> he was interested in the affairs of the world, but he is so easily smitten with women. he falls. and this is an important character of his personality. he knew instantly that he loved this woman. women have played an important part throughout his biography. what do you understand about women and his psychology and the role that they play with him? >> i wish i could say that he was a man of great enlightenment and forward-looking views. he wasn't. he wasn't bad though by the standards of that time, he really comes off pretty well as having, believing strongly that women are very bright and very capable. generally, i think he still likes the subordinate role. basically, he just liked women and more so than men of that time he enjoyed the company of men very much, but he just generally enjoy the company of women and he enjoyed their intellectual companionship. >> but he is so passionate. he is very passionate and very eloquent and so when you marry those two traits and the letters that he wrote to ellen after they were engaged, they are just the most astonishing love letters you will ever see. and she was quite eloquent, too. >> some of the love letters of woodrow wilson to ellen are preserved at princeton university's manuscript library. we are going to learn about them next. >> here on the shelves are the correspondence between woodrow and eleanor. they are love letters. it has to be the largest collection of love letters exchanged between any present and future first lady. these letters were sealed. when the woodrow wilson family moved, they were sealed. it is a time capsule shedding extraordinary life on the wilson's life together. woodrow is living in baltimore going to john thompson's. he wrote to ellen in 1894. when you come into my study, stitches me as i sit at my desk. it is odd how this attachment of viewers to me seems part of the force of my mind. my darling, i trust it is not wrong to worship you as i do. my darling, i trust it is not wrong to worship you as i do. you are the presiding genius of both my mind and heart. and in that fact, this the happiness and strength of your woodrow. i think we see the extent to which woodrow wilson not only loved ellen, but acknowledged in a very clear way his intellectual debt to her. how many cases can you say that the first lady and her husband, that he is stepping forward and saying i acknowledge that you are the source not only of my happiness but of my intellectual development? you introduced me to literature, to wordsworth, to browning. they would sit together on the campus and read wordsworth together sitting in the grass. he acknowledged that profound role that ellen plays in his life. she says, how can i thank you dearest for the sweet things that you say in today's letter. how happy it makes me that you think such things as me, even when i feel with a heart ache how sadly unworthy i am of it all. i too trust it is not wrong to worship you as i do. i had as well question that it be wrong to breathe. for i am in every breath altogether your own ellen. often, she doesn't respond to them quite as passionately as he writes to her because she does tend to be a bit melancholy. but in this is an exuberance that is really delightful. ellen was so devoted to him, you sense she puts herself second to his needs again and again throughout their life together. she is serving him and helping him. that was her conception of what her role was as woodrow wilson's wife. as she is dying in the white house, that tragic summer, august 1914 with the world about to enter into great international convulsion with world war i about to break out, she is dying in the white house and she grabs the hand of dr. grayson and whispers to him, doctor, if i go away, promise me that you will take good care of my husband. >> it might be hard to answer this question, but are listener on visitor ranks asked us where we would rank them on the loves twitter asksn us where we would rank them on the loves of presidential couples. >> it seems to me it would be hard to come up to their level. as john cooper pointed out to me lying in arthur links' collection of woodrow wilson's letters. >> arthur linked was the greatest wilson scholar there ever was. in the volume that covers august 1914 and ellen's death, the editors, here it is, this is the introduction of this very stately monumental scholarly thing, with the editors bid a fond farewell to ellen wilson, whom we have all come to love. that is over the years that it had affected them so much. >> woodrow wilson asked her to marry him just five minutes -- months after he met her. they got married when? >> they got married two years later. woodrow had a great strategy. he had had a girlfriend before and she had refused his offer of marriage and so i think he was once burned twice shy. so he had decided that he was going to propose to ellen just before getting on the train to go to baltimore and attend johns hopkins in political science. so that if she refused him, there would be no awkward lingering as he later said. so they had met each other by chance in this town where neither of them lived. they were just passing through and he persuaded her to stay for a couple of extra days and meet his family. when he proposed to her, she was so startled that she blurted out yes. she had not meant to, but she blurted this out and they had hardly known each other. but he was going off to study for two years, so they had a two-year engagement, since they didn't know each other very well, it was the marvelous letters through which they became intimate. >> mary kay is watching us in san rafael california. you are on the air. caller: thank you so much for the series. i was wondering what the first lady and president thought of the pickets in front of the white house for suffrage in 1917. >> this would be back to edith. they were very indignant, especially edith was very indignant. she thought they were rude and at one point woodrow offered to send -- to have them come into the white house and get warm and have hot coffee and they were -- and they refused. she did not believe in suffrage for women and thought all this was quite foolish. there were two suffrage organizations and one of them was trying to go about amending the constitution in a state-by- state way, in other words have suffrage passed in the various states and then get more people in congress to support it. woodrow receives the members of the national association of women suffrage -- national american woman suffrage association, and some people believe it was the extremism of the national women's party that allowed the more conservative group to make progress because they were seen as a lot less threatening. >> we are going to come back to his early years with ellen and his life before politics. he is the only president who moved from the presidency of the university into politics and to the white house. how does he get to princeton and how does he get to the presidency? >> first of all he was a presbyterian minister son and princeton had sort of severed its official ties with the church, but it was still a very presbyterian school. if you are a bright young man, princeton was a place to go. he wanted to step out from the south, too. he went to hopkins briefly, his first teaching job was at bryn mawr, a brand-new college for women. he actually like teaching there. he liked the women at bryn mawr better than ellen did. she objected to the modern woman that he did. he got back to princeton in 1890, became the most popular professor there. basically, he was one of two real stars of the faculty. there was some intrigue among the trustees and everything to get him to the presidency, that he got chosen president in 1902. then he tried to reform princeton and succeeded a bit and failed quite a bit and really got stymied when the new jersey bosses came along and offered him the nomination for the governorship heard he took it from them and then turned on them immediately and became a reformer. a lot of things made him a front runner quite early, so he made a remarkable transition. in two years he went from being a university president to being president. the governorship was just a small interlude. wilson is one of those people with the exception of the law, who succeeded in everything he did. he is one of the great lyrical -- political scientists. he was a great scholar, a great university president. he was the best-known and most effective university president of his time. he is ranked among the best governors and he was one heck of an effective president, two. -- too. >> we love the interconnections here. grover cleveland after he left the white house went to princeton to practice law because it was difficult for a former president to do much else. is it true that the families knew each other and that the children even played together? >> i don't know about the children playing together but i do know that they knew each other. >> we are going to show your prospect house which was the house at the wilson's lived in on the time that the presidents house. today is use for social functions. as we look at it we are going to learn about ellen and woodrow wilson's political partnership and how that develops. >> this is the study of prospect house and it looks very much as it did when woodrow and ellen wilson lived here. this would have been woodrow wilson's office. his desk would've been right here and here he would have met with students, faculty, university presidents, visiting people from across the world. it is here that he and ellen might've met to confer about university business. ellen wilson was highly involved with woodrow wilson's career. she gives him advice on what jobs he should take, what jobs he shouldn't take. when he was up for a post at arkansas industrial university she suggested that was a bad career move. she was very involved and a tremendous help to him. behind-the-scenes him throughout his academic career. i find this room, this study so evocative because it is right here that we can see woodrow wilson making that transition from academic figure two -- to political figure. ellen wilson helped with all of this. constantly advising woodrow, helping them out and then he decides to run for governor and the reporters descend on prospect. it reporters descend on his study. in the interview him right here in this room. they photograph him in the garden and ellen wilson is quite alarmed. she begins to sense that she is going to lose any privacy she might've had. she is going to lose that carefully constructed, very close-knit home life that she had valued so much with woodrow. that is going to slip away when they plunge into politics. so they moved into prospect house, the young academic couple full of dreams, full of ambitions when she leaves prospect house. they are almost driven out by the trustees in 1910. when she leaves, she is better, -- bitter, she is exhausted and what awaits her is the political life's to check a tremendous toll on her, personally, in terms of her exhaustion, in terms of her energy, and psychologically. >> as his supportive spouse, how did her responsibilities change as she moved from university presidents wife to the first lady of new jersey and then ultimately into the white house? >> she was building on each of the things that she had done before. she had been involved in the small way with social outreach during the time that she was a private person. then when she became first lady of new jersey, she became very interested in social welfare. she actually took woodrow on a tour to new jersey to look at state welfare institutions like the home for the insane were the prisons. -- or the prisons. she had an early record of activism among social welfare groups. she also had to do a great deal of entertaining during the dinner that was given after woodrow wilson's inauguration in 1902. she invited booker t. washington to the horror of her southern aunt. she had a great deal of entertaining to do as the president's wife, more of course when she moved into the governor's mansion. at one point they were down in the summer home, they didn't have a governor's mansion, but the state of new jersey supplied a summer home. a little boy got lost and wandered into the house and came out afterwards and was asked if he met the governor. he said, yes and she gave me a piece of cake. [laughter] >> what was her role in 1912? >> i don't think she did enough in the campaign. >> what's interesting about the campaign was that she was, i believe, the first future first lady to go on a campaign before the convention. she and wilson went down to the south, especially in georgia where she was hailed as much as he was. unfortunately, they lost georgia. they didn't get the delegates from georgia. she had a hand in trying to get woodrow to patch up relations with williams jennings bryan to head three times in the democratic nominee. he was kind of the leader of the democratic party and he was very keen on helping woodrow get the nomination. >> she saw an opportunity. wilson had come from a different wing of the party. he had said some things about bryant that some of his enemies had publicized to try to make trouble for it she saw a chance to mend fences. she brought them together and they hit it off very well. brian and wilson had a good relationship down to some things in world war i. she is playing the same kind of role that she played in his academic career heard a very shrewd tactician, a very good facilitator. not out in front or in public, she didn't particularly like that role, either. but she was awfully shrewd. >> theodore roosevelt's challenge to his own party by forming the bull moose party that split the republicans and helped bring woodrow wilson into the white house. if you have to capitalize his political philosophy, what would you say it is? he called himself a protective a progressive democrat. he felt it was a government that made it possible for people to do things for themselves. he said i don't want a government that will take care of me, i want a government that will make sure that other people take their hands off me to that i can take care of myself. it is updated liberalism. is the individual's happiness, the individual self-realization. that is a great contrast with you to roosevelt. that campaign of 19 12 as the -- 1912 is the best we've ever had by far. what you get is really a debate of political philosophies between these two men. >> lee is watching us from durango, colorado. guest: thank you for taking my call. i have a question about the bill that was so important to ellen wilson and did such a wonderful thing for the city of washington dc. i would like to comment on youth wilson. -- edith wilson. she was more of a hindrance than a help. joseph, a major advisor to the president, wrote numerous letters during his illness and they were discovered unopened until after her death. >> thank you so much for your call. she asks about ellen's alley bill. >> when they came to the white house, ellen felt that as long as she was in the white house, not a place for she particularly wanted to be, she would use her position to do as much good as she could. she connected with a group called the national civic federation that had been around for 10 years or so. they were very interested in trying to clean up these little alleyways in between the bigger streets of washington where there were tumbledown shacks, great squalor heard they wanted to tear down all these buildings and do what we would now call urban renewal. ellen was so interested in this project that you took some of the congressman any white house car through the alleyways to show them the conditions of these houses that were right in the capital. she lobbied them to pass a bill that would enable this because at that time washington was run by congress. they didn't have their own government. she was i think the first lady to lobby for a cause that wasn't her husband's, outside of the white house. she was very effective at doing this. i don't know if you want to talk about all of what happens here >> we will come back to the story because it is connected with her passing. wilson decides not to have an inaugural ball, why is that? >> it was partly because of ellen. ellen thought it would really be a commercialization, something frivolous. it should be a solemn occasion. she was a very thrifty woman. woodrow did not make a lot of money in his early days and she had a habit of frugality. somebody once said mrs. wilson looks sweeter every year in that brown dress -- and that brown dress she wears looks sweeter as well. she prided herself on being thrifty. she just thought the inauguration, the not real balls were frivolous. >> will you miss watching us in --william is watvhinh watching us in new york city. guest: in new york there is often mention of the wilson girls in society. can you tell us a bit about their growing up and entering adulthood? >> he brought three daughters to the white house. >> yes and they were all roughly marriageable age when they get into the white house, so they go to balls and parties. ellen is on record as saying that she doesn't approve of modern dances like the turkey trot. somebody else writes and says that ellen morris slaton who is a gossipy wife of a congressman. she kept a diary and said that they had been seen down at the military barracks turkey trotting with the best of them. she tried to keep a rein on her daughters, and two of them did get married in the white house. considering that she was only in the white house for 17 months before she died, that is quite an accomplishment. she had a very big wedding for her first daughter, who was married in november. she had a very small, quiet wedding for her third daughter, who got married in may very shortly before ellen was bedridden. >> chad is in baltimore. guest: i wanted to know, after eleanor passed away and before youth arrived. is it true that margaret became the de facto first lady? >> i think she became the hostess. there has to be an official hostess. one of wilson's cousins helped her out. margaret did not much want to be the official hostess. she wanted to be a singer. she preferred to go to new york which is where she thought there were more opportunities to be a singer. i think the two of them tried to cope with the social duties. the social season was curtailed on the advice of ellen's social secretary ritchie felt that been a precedent stringy harrison administration when his wife had died they had curtailed the social season, so there wasn't too much entertaining that margaret had to do. >> despite her short tenure in the white house, ellen wilson also brought on the rose garden. we will learn more about that in our next video. >> we are in prospect garden here in princeton new jersey. this is the garden that ellen wilson originally designed when she was resident of prospect house from 1902 to 1910. i think that here we see the full expression of ellen's aesthetic vision. she is an oil painter, very competent. she knows a lot of the american impressionist painters of the day. she loves to paint landscapes, and as a corollary to that she laid out this extraordinary people garden at the prospect house. she plans to cedar trees, she plans all sorts of flowers. loves this garden so much that she hates to leave it when wilson enters politics and he enters princeton. she brings the white house gardener back to this garden at prospect house and says to the white house gardener, thus re- create the rose section of this garden at the white house. ellen wilson could look out of her bedroom window in prospect mansion and look right down and see the flowers all day. similarly, she wanted the president of the united states to be able to see roses when he looked out of his window in the white house. this becomes a famous rose garden at the white house. ellen tragically doesn't live to see the rose garden completed, however. she is dying in the summer of 1914. she is wheeled out into the space outside in her wheelchair and she watches as a gardener works, but she doesn't live to see the completion of this vision she had for roses blooming at the white house. that is a vision that really begins here at aspect of art and in princeton. -- that begins here at prospect garden in princeton. >> here is a photograph of what it looks like you're in the wilson administration and here's what the rose garden looks like today. >> we have for short tenure in the white house, she did during the 17 months. we talk about the alley clearance bill heard we talk about the rose garden and the fact that she was a professional artist, one of the first ladies who brought her own profession to the white house. how significant was that in setting the standard for future first ladies? >> i don't think it really set a standard for future first ladies hurried ellen did earn money from selling her paintings that she donated to charity that she had set up for her brother in memory of her brother who had died. i think the only first lady who earn money while she was in the white house was eleanor roosevelt. it did not become a first lady tradition and just as well. >> next is aaron in greenfield, california. guest: thank you for taking my call. i have enjoyed your show very much. as is my second time calling. the last time i called was through your first season when you were talking about the two wives of john tyler. i very much enjoyed your show so far. my question is about woodrow wilson's first wife ellen. when she passed away, where was she buried and when her husband passed away he was an attorney in the washington d.c. area. was his first wife's body reinterred to be buried next to him and also where was his second wife buried when she passed away? >> thank you. >> the answer to that question about whether she was reinterred, the answer was no. she is buried in the family plot, the acts and plot in rome georgia. when woodrow died, edith was pretty determined that he was not going to be buried with ellen. then the choice was he had been a president of princeton and the presidents of princeton are buried in a very nice cemetery. there have been some ill feeling and still was, so that was out. in the meantime a very ambitious bishop of washington, mr. friedman wanted to get famous people buried in the cathedral so you do have gotten admiral dewey. this is when washington cathedral was still very new. he approached edith about this and she liked the idea. he wanted to make the cathedral washington's westminster abbey and i was told that william howard taft granddaughter told him that when taft heard about this he said, don't let those bodysnatchers at the cathedral get me. [laughter] i think this is wonderful. this presbyterian president was buried in an episcopal cathedral. edith is buried with him. >> was she sick the entire time that she was in the white house for 13 months? >> she was. you saw the pictures of her leaving princeton and even being in princeton. she had first developed kidney trouble in 1889 when her third child was born. the wilsons decided at that time to have no more children. they used birth control. she probably had been suffering from kidney disease for some time before she got to the white house, would be my guess. >> she was diagnosed with something called braces disease. >> that is an archaic term for kidney disease. i don't think they had a sophisticated tests as we have now. i was impressed that they were able to diagnose it as early as 1889. >> theodore roosevelt first wife also died of kidney disease as well. she died quite early in their marriage. woodrow and ellen had been married for quite a while. >> dennis mccarthy wants in on twitter, digg woodrow wilson -- did woodrow wilson become consumed with ellen's illness? did it affect his performance as president? >> not till the very end. by and large it was kept secret from him. so, that was ellen's wish. she did not want to burden him. >> i think everyone was in denial. i do not know that she knew how sick she was. doctors kept telling her she would get better will stop i think the doctors were in denial. i do think woodrow knew she was dying until the day she died. hearst --ast days of bed when he is at her sick every minute while the world is falling apart before world war i, it is terrible. it is terribly affecting. and the funeral? >> to have a funeral in rome and out of the church were woodrow had met her. the townspeople were there. there was a state funeral here in washington. there was a little ceremony in the white house. >> there was a ceremony in the white house. finished our first hour. i told you this would go by quick we. here -- quickly. guests.e our -- read thisut paragraph. you talk about her contributions to him. death dealt him a clear blow. overd a solitary influence -- she had a solitary influence over him more than anyone else. she had seen will some through and forgiven him for his infatuation. andn had given him so much he was a far better man for her gift. he had gone further and accomplished more than he could have done without her and he knew it. is it there to state without ellen wilson there may not have been a woodrow wilson? this man brothers somes. he met her as he's about to depart for john's hopkins. he had been crying to write, trying to find himself and love concentrated his mind wonderfully. >> it's extraordinary. he's either writing these letters to her, long involved wonderful letters and writing his first book. it's amazing. all along, as christi said, the advice to him and how to handle it. any academic would love to have helen as wife and i think conversely a male with a husband. she's such a help, support, such a terribly shrewd advisor. again, such an emotional support to him. it really is extraordinary. >> we have a debate raging about woodrow wilson's legacy among detractors. whether you love him or hated him, ellen wilson's base contribution was getting that man to the white house? >> absolutely. >> time to move on to chapter two of our story. what happened after our death. >> we're going to talk a little bit more about the >> sure. >> part of the closing days of her life. >> so as she's dying, the day she's die, she tells you to congress and say she's dying. the senate takes action in time for her to learn about it before she loses consciousness for the last time. the house passes it later but never implemented because of orld war i breaking out. they don't have the money. the whole issue is dropped in the 1933. there was a young woman whose husband was in the wilson administration. the assistant secretary of the navy, franklin delano roosevelt. roosevelt went to the white house many times and met ellen ilson. it was said no one could move in polite society unless they could talk to her. she made the whole issue fashionable. the first week she was in the white house, she went back to the national civic federation of women, the same women that had worked well len wilson. and she began to lobby for an alley bill. she lobbied for a great many different causes. but i firmly believe that ellen set an example to eleanor and ellen set an example for many first ladies who came after her. >> one of the interesting debates about it is wood row wilson seeking out african-americans. >> much as i can tell, i loved ellen as much as the editors did. he was a southern woman. i don't think we could honestly say she believed in equality in african-americans. that's just -- she was a wonderful warm loving person. but i think african-americans occupied her place. this is in a maternalistic way she does want to help there and also to beautify washington too. that's not just to be -- not just to be helpful. it's all news -- i think his having grown up in the south really has less to do with his views there. the wilson administration record on race is bad, simply bad. he allowed his southern cabinet ecretaries to attempt to introduce segregation to the federal work place. they made stabs at it. the n -- newly formed naacp protesting id. they backed off. they did it informally. that's bad. there's also that very unfortunate incident of showing the birth of the nation, the movie in the white house which blew way out of proportion of what happened there. >> that's the time for edith. >> that's in the -- that's shortly before he met -- he met edith. that's the worst time in wilson's life except for the the stroke. because he was absolutely devastated by ellen's death. he was in bad, bad shape emotionally. >> when gary robinson asked on twitter did they get any bump or passes on it, was he thinking of the affairs of state or the month out there? >> he had to. yes, he was. that's what -- he said that's what held it together. he had do this, he had to be president. he had to pay attention to these things. otherwise, i think the man could have really deteriorated badly there. if he had just been on his own. the presidency is his crutch at this point. his attitude to me, he's like a white northerner. he wants the race go away. oh, yeah, that's the problem down to the south. booker t. washington, we'll make progress, a bit of benign neglect. wilson is more like that. they want to make sure blacks are in their place and want to push segregation. . >> before we leave, we want to tell you we have a well populated website. it's filled with all of the video and the programs we've done so far in the series. each week, we have a special feature attached to the first lady we're looking at. and this week, it's on ellen's artwork. so if you go to the website and you want to learn more about her work, the' sell, one of her paintings on display at the white house while she was there, this is the featured item this week on first lady, the c-span.org website. i'm talking about research. i want to tell you about one other. our partners of this series, the white house historical association. they have for many years published the biography series of first ladies. it's a special version of it. we worked with them to publish it and make it available to you. that same website has the link. we show this hard cover book at 12:95, our cost, so you can learn about the women. there's a short biography and we'll get them to you so you can learn more about the women in the programs and the rest of the series. this is lleyton in rome, georgia. is that her birthplace? >> and her burial place. >> hello, how are you? >> fine. >> i would like to say that rome, georgia is watching tonight. and, of course, we are the hometown of ellen wilson and we're very excited that you're doing a program tonight especially on ellen. christie miller has graciously accepted our invitation to come to rome as we celebrate not only the life but also the art of ellen wilson beginning in august of 2014. and you know, it's kind of interesting that in 1914, rome, georgia raised $10,000 in 2014, we'll mark the anniversary of the homecoming that never ccurred. >> any final thoughts on ellen before we move on? no? okay. so let's do that. he was devastated. but we've talked about his connection with women and his love of having women in his life. he was a widowed president. so lots of women were probably interested in him. how did he approach this period of his life when he was a widower? >> i don't think there was a great rush of women to meet him. but his doctor was very concerned about it. and he thought that a friend of his is goal might be somebody that might cheer him up. so he arranged for helen, the woman who was serving as his official host just after ellen's death to go walking with edith because helen herself was having some health problems. he thought it would benefit her to go walking with this nice hearty vision rowels woman. they took a number of walks together. that led to a meeting in the white house between edith and woodrow. and they were immediately drawn to each other. just like well len. he very quickly fell in love and quickly proposed to her. >> edith bowling goff was found in virginia. there's a map of virginia. you can see where it is in the southwest part of the state. there's 300 miles way from washington, d.c. we visited there in preparation for the series. you'll see that next. >> this is the birthplace and childhood home of edith bowling wilson. today it looks very much like it did when the bowlings lived here from 1866 to 1899. originally, in the 1840s, this was two houses, they were joined together, which connected the upstairs bowling home, the downstairs was used as retail space. the upstairs was the home of the bollings. this is the original front door to the bolling home. this is where the bolling family would have entered. let me take you inside. this is the birth room. this is the bedroom of her parents. she was one of 20 family members who lived upstairs in the boling home. this is the cradle that the children would have slept in. this is a child's chair that was up here in the bolling home. we can imagine the children sitting in the chairs. he cover is original and we're so pleased it hasn't been recovered over the years. this is the bedroom of grandmother bolling. and we know that edith bolling as a little girl slept in the room with her grandmother. her grandmother was an invalid and had back problems. and she was quite spoiled by her grandmother. she was her grandmother's favorite. but along with that came the responsibility of being her care giver. this is the back sleeping porch. this is where edith would gather with her family where they would enjoy evenings together. i think one of my favorite pictures is the picture of young edith at age 13. she's actually sitting on a stool and in this corner, she has her books in her lap and very fortunate to have this picture of her. we see what she's dressed like, we see her books, we see how her hair is fixed. we see her in a place where she was very comfortable and spent a lot of time as a young girl. this is the library of her father, judge bolling. they sent her to washington, d.c. to keep her away from a gentleman who was courting her. they sent her to washington, d.c. she met and married her first husband. it really changed her life. >> we learn more about the life of edith billioning goff wilson. on facebook, a question -- what did his daughter who served as hostess before the marriage think of his new wife and what did his other daughters think. i think the daughters were very happy to see their father married again. because as don said, he was in deep despair. they were very worried about him. they were happy. they were among the happiest people in washington about the marriage. >> what about the press? what about his cabinet? they tried to keep it out of the cabinet as long as they could. he reactions were mixed. we're getting the beyond the generation that widowed people shouldn't marry. well, they shouldn't remarry soon. and clearly for the president to e courting and want to marry again so quickly, a lot of them worried about it. several of them tried to hatch something to warn him off there. that backfired very badly. by the way, edith took an instant dislike to colonel house, this advisor of wilson's. and wilson patched it up or had them get together. but i don't think house realized what an enemy he made of edith wilson. he had something to do with this too. >> back to carl from georgia. hi, carl. >> good evening. thank you for taking my call. i heard the gentleman say there was a bit of dissension between colonel house and edith. was this personal differences, colonel house had live-in quarters in the white house. was he commanding too much of the president's time as far as edith was concerned or were there political difference s? >> well, actually house did not have living quarters in the white house. he spent a lot of time there. but he didn't have living quarters there. it's a bit of both. edith as christie pointed out very well, wilson courted the widow gault with the presidency and the secrets of state and she ate it up. there's no question about t. and she admits frankly admits in her memoir later that this was a good bit of her attraction to wilson. and attracted to him too personally. that's the way -- this may be a much more glamorous figure to her. so she's okay, she's going to be the advisor. a lot of it at the beginning is to resent house. resent house. there's just enough to get him out of the way. house was concerned -- house saw wilson as a very valuable property to manage and to keep, you know, to keep healthy and to keep in power. and i think he was worried about the effect on this. now, he very quickly backed off when he saw how determined wilson was to marry edith. he turned tail very quickly and then he tries to make up to her a lot. but she never -- no, she never -- she masked her dislike of house up until the time of the conference. >> so he proposes very soon after. she says no, saying you hardly know me. there's a wonderful quote that most biographers refer to alking about how time is compress in the white house. what did he say? >> i don't remember the exact words. but he said time is much quicker here than it was on the outside. her at a it to call it a ploy. one fact that he ployed it out to all three of the women he was involved with was that he needed them so much. and it was a real genuine need as john has pointed out. he often said he couldn't do his work unless he was assured of their love. so that was definitely one of the things that she said to edith. to know you would have need of me is very sweet. that's a successful courtship tactic. although she refused him the first time, two months later, he proposed again and she accepted. >> as i recall, the refusal, hat's what they're supposed to do anyway? she got taken unawares really. that was the convention. >> i think it was. >> turn it down and, you know, of course the guy comes back and -- >> she had every right to turn him down convention or no convention. they've known each other about six weeks when he proposed the first time. >> i must say, we both read all of that correspondence there. i'm impressed that edith's refusal looked to be pretty pro forma. she's going to accept this guy. >> one of my favorite quotes is from the secret serviceman, colonel starling who said the lady was retreating. how fast and what intention, we don't know. >> he would go over to her house, you know, he would spend the evening there. >> icing, jack a completely different air. a fanaticism about baseball in this town, the first public date was a baseball game. >> wilson was a great baseball fan. he played -- never played on a college -- he played on a college team at davidson. the first college he went to. that's something. he's a great fan of princeton and wesley and prince ton, he's a tremendous baseball fan. go to that and that is the first public appearance together. just beaming there. i think she turns into a political asset. >> we have to move on, the time is going to evaporate. very quickly. what did the general population think of wilson remarrying so quickly. >> fortunately, not as his advisors feared. the public loved it. they went on a tour about six weeks after they were married. to drum up interest and preparedness in case america got in the war. she was seen as a great asset. the press loved her. the crowds loved her. they loved the idea of the two of them being on their honeymoon. it was a great public relations. >> throughout this program, we have been taking you to the wilson house, the place where the first couple met after they left the white house. we're going to return there right now. >> we're current will i in the dining room of the president wood row wilson house in northwest dc about a mile from the white house. standing guard over the dining room is an official poit rate of edith wilson painted and finished in 1920. 93 years old. bob inholm is the executive director of the house. what can you tell us about this dress she's wearing in this portrait. >> president wilson in his second term presented a provision of the world of peace, a plan in this provision. he couldn't have found a better help mate, dynamic and strong, edith wilson. this is not a 19th century portrait. she's wearing a dress that's fashion forward in the 1920s. at her waist is a broach, a gift to her from france. >> some of the other artifacts from the white house years set here at the table. you have the place setting? >> this is the wilson china. edith had a hand in designing this. so while some of the china relied on designs, patriotic symbols consistent with the nation at war. there's a funny story. the historians can tell about this. when edith was learning how to ride a bicycle in the basement of the white house, the china was stacked there. one of the reasons they created the china room was so she would have room to ride the bicycle without crashing into the china. >> this is lennox. you have an outfit she wore as first lady. >> we remember president wilson was the first president to go to europe at president but we need to remember as well edith wilson was the first lady to go to europe as the first lady. it was important for her to figure out how she should comport herself in meeting kings and queens of europe and heads of state. she bought this suit at the house of worth in paris. let me pull this back and show some of the detail. the lining spectacular. gives you some sense of the level of detail and attention of the clothing that she purchased there. >> bob -- president wilson left here three years after she left the white house. was there a purposeful effort to make this house like the white house? >> very much so. that's part of edith's doing as well. she realized the president would be more comfortable in a settle in which he understand where things were. so when they put together this bedroom here, it emulated the white house bedroom he'd been in down to the detail of getting the lincoln bed that he had enjoyed and building a replica of the room here. >> the next time you come back to us, susan,er with eel be in the library. >> thank you very much. a reminder, the wilson house is available for public tour. make it part of yourself when you do a history tour of washington, d.c. the wilson presidency, the two terms were very momentous years. for the country and for the world. it's hard to boil down important things that went on in a couple of places but we're going try to do it. n the wilson presidency, the 17th amendment to the constitution which called for direct election for the senators was passed. major tariff bill that was so much an important debate in this country, the federal reserve act, i can tell you our facebook community is talking a lot about the federal reserve. the role of the federal trade commission. then the war. the u.s. declaring war on germany. after the war, wood row wilson winning the nobel peace prize. the 18th amendment bringing prohibition. the 19th amendment calling finally for women suffrage in this country. what was edith's role in this period of time, legislateively, public affairswise. how involved was she in the substance of what he was doing. >> very little. she didn't have ellen's acumen for understanding these things. he liked to show her the papers but she would get fired up and would say you need to put this note to germany more strongly or to the secretary of state william brennan to be stronger. he encouraged her to be fiery. she didn't have understanding. a lot of people thought she had influenced him to lobby as he finally did for woman's uffrage. that wasn't the case at all. she didn't approve. so i wouldn't say she had any effect on his legislative -- >> he did not support the 18th amendment. he did not like prohibition. he vetoed the act which passed over the veto. >> how difficult was it for him to make a decision to bring the u.s. into world war i. >> very, very. we went to the war after the zinging of the lcitania, almost two years. the zinging is a great wakeup call on how we might be involved in the war. it's not comparable to pearl harbor and 9/11. it was this shocking event. two years to struggle to try to get the germans not to sink ships and kill people on the seas. yet, not to get involved in the war. he got the germans to back down for a while. so the election of 1916 in the lull in foreign affairs and this notion he kept us out of war with this great cry. well, yeah. but it was -- he kept us out of war with mexico because the threat of war in europe had receded at that point. then the germans reopened and it was a very, very difficult struggle. he actually unburdened himself confidentially to a newspaper editor, frank cobb of the new york world. and he predicted all of the terrible consequences that happen in this country if we went to the war. that's the most eloquent case of coming from the war. >> how would you answer sheldon cooper when asked which wife provided political clout for woodrow. >> i think it was ellen. ellen was involved. she lobbied. ou spoke with the tariff ill. she read it. she lobbied for having reduced duty on books and art supplies. and when it was actually tasked, she celebrated. it meant a lot to her. and i don't think either of them had a great deal to do with it. but i think ellen had more than edith. >> david is in her hometown. >> thank you for the segment. i want to invite your viewers to visit and join us in our efforts to restore a birthplace and childhood home. but my question is when mrs. wilson visited during europe, how was she received by the royalty of europe and how can you tell us about her relationship to pocahontas and other families? >> she's a direct descendent to pocahontas. it was played up a great deal by the newspapers in europe when she went over there. i forgot, what was the other part of the question? how she was received in europe? >> they were received joyously over there. they looked to wilson to be a savior. edith drove home and said they felt like cinderella. they were received by the king of italy. there were thousands and thousands of people reading them in paris. it was a magical time for her. >> here's a question of a similar ilk between edith and ellen, which has the greatest influence on america today? i'd say ellen, although edith had the handle the country in the crisis of presidential disability. and i think she set a pattern for how not do it. it was a cover-up. so i think it was one of the segments that said that grayson -- we're not going to admit he had a stroke. they never -- the white house never admitted that, one of his consulting physicians let it slip out of the bag later. but they never admitted that. and in some ways this uncertainty about -- about what the president's condition was really contributed to the political downfall that comes. >> justin, plainfield, indiana, you're on. go ahead. >> hi, thank you for taking my call. thank you for doing this. my question is, how would edith received in the time leading up to her marriage to president wilson by the media? did she kind of get the princess diana reception or more from rachael jackson reception? >> thanks so much. >> dave really as don said tried to keep it very quiet. and the announcement was made at the beginning of october. they got marry in the middle of december. so they really only had to endure the -- the attention of the press for about two months. and again it was a very, very different time and nobody was expected to get out there diana style and be father christmas. >> wouldn't you say the caller talked about rachael jackson. there was an undercurrent of a little bit of scandal or whatever that he was involve in this woman. >> there were several scandals, ne of which and we haven't really addressed it. but woodrow wilson was involved with another woman during the time he was married to ellen. he met mary allen holbert peck in 1907. by 1908, he had scribbled on a little note somewhere. my precious one, my beloved mary. i don't think he sent it to her. i think he was venting her eelings. ellen was upset. she accused him of emotional love for this woman. but she tolerated mary and tried to protect woodrow from the scandal. there still was some scandal. theodore roosevelt was invited in the 1912 election to make use of this. somebody said that they had letters between woodrow and mary. and although they were never as ardent as his letters to ellen had been, they were simply compromising. and roosevelt said, no, that would be wrong. and also that nobody would believe him. >> yeah. because that was -- that was very noble of theodore roosevelt. but you said -- you said, what -- i can't believe that somebody who looks like the apoth care's cud could be romeo. i don't believe that. >> doing the best t.r. invitation on the program. >> no. this momentous on the united states and those who enter world war i. what happens in the white house in terms of their social, they're entertaining. what does she do to support the war effort. that's an important part of her story. would you talk about that? >> poor edith gets pitched into the white house in the middle of the war, in the middle of his term without any preparation whatsoever. and she was -- she really rose to the occasion. and she was, as i said, very pop yue wlar the press because of ellen's ill health, the press had not been very taken with her. and edith had the doubly trying situation of having to have two receptions because she couldn't have all of the warring ambassadors with each other. so she had to have a party for the outlies and the party for the central powers. she really was terrific and everybody was impressed with her ood firm hand shake. nd very impressed with her sense of style, no poor little brown dress for edith. >> she was a wealthy washington socialite and a business executive. >> i wouldn't say she was a socialite. her husband had been in trade, meaning he was a businessman. and that was not the creme de la creme of washington society. so there was a certain amount of dubiousness about that. but as john said, there were scandals also to the extent to which she and woodrow had been intimate. later on she makes a big protest, a big international scandal, really, out of refusing to accept the designated british ambassador because the assistant was telling naughty stories about him. >> back to the wilson house on s street in washington, d.c. >> we are in the library at the wilson house with bob inholm, the executive director. you can see some of the artifacts in this room from wilson. but there are a couple of things in here that are very related to edith and woodrow wilson. why don't you tell us what this is on the desk. >> we display the pen that was used to sign the declaration of war in 1917. what i think is interesting is that it's edith wilson's pen. we've been discussing on the program that it was very much with the president participated in his dligss on a variety of issues. when the declaration of war was passed by congress, the president was with edith and not near a pen of his own and she offered one of hers to sign that historic document. we have that here. we know that edith was part of the president's regular routine in dealing with the policy issues and the business of government. every day after dinner, he would retire to the office in the white house, the president's office. and go through his drawer, i might think of it as an inbox. you can see this is a box with the lock and key with the president's important papers to be delivered to him. and then he would be able to go through them. the president and mrs. wilson would go through the papers tofgt. it was her habit to put them in order. they would decipher together coded messages. so it's interesting that this lays the groundwork for her role as steward of the presidency when the president was -- >> our guest back on the set had been talking about edith and ellen wilson. what do you think of the legacy on edith wilson? what is the legacy of edith wilson? >> i think the most important thing that edith wilson did was to bring the role of the first lady into the modern era in the sense that she supported the president and was aware of some of the issues that he was involved with. and my take on her role in the stuartship is a little different from some, because i think that her -- her authority within the government relied almost entirely on the president's affection for her, trust for her, respect for her. i think you wouldn't expect that she would betray that trust in order to go to the cabinet or the vice president or someone else. so i think she had that important role of being the help eet to the president in a very modern way. >> we're at the wilson house in northwest d.c. this is where edith wilson lived postpresidency until 1961 when she died in this house. we've got one more visit here. and it's kind of a special guest that we'ref going to introduce you to in a little while. >> thanks, bob for bringing us to the wilson house tonight and showing some of it to the viewing public. well, we should say that when woodrow womenson makes a decision to the war, he goes all in. you write about a fact that what america could contribute was manpower to this? >> yeah, well, i mean, it was a stalemate. although russia collapsed. and the bolsheviks when they came in, lennon's policy was peace at any price. he paid a terrible price. but this meant that the germans could finally fight the battle they wanted to fight, the war they wanted to fight. they do the frank oppression war over again. so they could throw everything at france. that's what they had a chance to do in the spring of 1918. and it's a race against time for us to get the dough boys there. now, the british and the french, bless their hearts, held on that one last time and locked that german offensive. but they were able to do it because they knew that the yanks are coming. that materiel money, we bailed them out. they were bankrupt at the time, we were able to bail them out. >> provided the dough boys, the foot soldiers, and the "dough". >> yes. >> how many casualties in the war? >> 140,000. >> and what was our -- when was in a? > november 11, 1918. >> and then wilson moved from war president to peacemaker. >> eacemaker in chief, that's right. he decided early he was going to go parls and be our chief negotiator because he wanted to shape the peace as best he could there. he knew we had come into the war later than the others and for different reasons. and he knew there were real differences. >> is travel with him on that trip. want to take a call on it and have you come back and talk to us about how that was staged and how important it was ultimately to the peace that was shaped. lewis, los angeles, you're on the air, welcome. >> yes, my question is what was or how was the league of nation s a -- was it a triumph for the president or a failure to the president wilson and how did mrs. wilson take it? because she left it a little longer. she went a little longer than president wilson. how was it on their legacy that the league of nations failed? thank you. >> it's both, a triumph and a failure. it was terrific. and then we never joined the league of nations. that's what happened in world ar ii, there is a prophet of oodrow wilson. there's the prophet we did not heed. here was the man who predicted this. f we had listened to him, we wouldn't have had this terrible second war. i think that's quite overdrawn. but still there's a kernel of truth to that. i mean it's hard to imagine that we wouldn't have played at least some kind of more constructive role in world affairs if we had gone into the league of nations. >> and edith was after woodrow's death very active with the league of nations herself. not in the leadership way, but she used to go to geneva every year for her meetings and she would go to any country in the league that wanted to honor woodrow for his work and bringing it together. >> united nations week. we're going do this. all of the world leaders are gathering in new york city. >> if it had not been for edith and woodrow had resigned, we might have joined the leaping. >> yeah. the warped judgment of his that would not compromise. if he had resigned, some kind of something to get him out of the ay, we would have joined the league. we would have joined it on a onditional basis with a lot of hedging. it would be openly stating what all of the other nations were oing anyway. but it would have gotten us into a leadership role in world affairs, a generation before we did. that's what was lost. a generation of experience and world leadership. >> we hope you saw the beginning. edith wilson made a critical decision with the advice of the doctors to keep him in the white house and to serve as the gatekeeper as to him and keep the affairs of state going during the years when really this month he was very, very critically ill. i don't think it was with the doctors' consent. >> no. >> not a bit. >> and in october, he wrote a -- a memo that should he be subpoenaed to congress, he wanted to have something on paper early on saying that he did not -- saying exactly what was wrong with the president. >> her memoirs, i read citations that doctors advised to him. >> of course to you, i said to you the memoirs were fanciful. she was her on public relations expert. >> edward winestein, a distinguished neurologist wrote a medical biography of wilson. e said in there takes it straight on, edith said, the doctors said, no, keep him in office. he said no responsible physician would have said that. she was making that up. >> how about that. i asked about her -- if their trip to europe as the great peacemaker -- they travelled by ocean liner to get there on a very specific day in december. what was the wilson as presidential couple arriving there. how were they received by heads of state. how was it that went on there. >> they were received in england in terms that would have been accorded to royalty. and everywhere they went, they were cheered by the pop pop yue ace. but in the beginning, it was wonderful. but once the negotiations got under way, she went from a fairy tale existence to being extremely concerned for wilson's high blood pressure. he had had some kind of episode when he was 39 years old where he had a lot of numbness in his hand. he had very high blood pressure. all of his adult life or at least from the age of 39 on wards. kerry grayson was insistent he get a lot of exercise and rest. in the negotiations, he couldn't rest or exercise. edith would try to get him to go for a walk. nd the woman who was with her, her secretary, said that she eres would never go out if there was a possibility that she would be able to take woodrow for a walk. but it was not enough. >> came back, he embarked on the multi-city tour the the united states to the concept of the league of nations to the people of the united states, ultimately leading to his exhaustion and the stroke we spoke about earlier. we have only 15 minutes left in our program. so we're going to have to compress a lot of history in that time. we're going to return to the wilson house and introduce you to a member of the family. >> kerry fuller from westchester, new york. what's your relationship? >> my great aunt. >> how much time did you spent in the wilson house growing up? >> a lot of time, not only visiting my great aunt, but my randfather and my great uncle. >> only relatives of edith ilson's still alive. >> right. >> what was it like to visit with aunt edith. >> it was called playing cards. we came over, we had a good meal. we played cards. prompted by my mother to let her win every once in a while. she was a fierce woman in terms of winning. >> kinasta? >> that was the game. that was easy to let her win if i held the cards and let her go out. >> these are the card boxes that you would use. >> the cards are on the table. he table is over here. >> over here in the library. kerry fuller, did she talk about being first lady, what it was like? >> no, it was very interesting. she rarely referred to the past. if she did, she would refer to woodrow wilson as the president. but there were no past memories, really. it was interesting. >> there were special visitors while you were here? >> no, not while i was in the amily. she loved her family so much. she spent a lot of time with them. >> here in the house, the postpresidency house, she would take in the family. >> yes. my grandfather, husband, and her sister died here in the house. >> did she ever talk about ellen? >> never. but i mean that wouldn't have come up. you know, seeing ellen wilson's icture in the house is sort of funny. it just -- it was not a part of what we would have discussed. >> what about jackie kennedy? >> i was close to jackie kennedy, sitting in the car and let manage i mother and aunt in the house. i was not here. i was waiting to pick them up afterwards. >> that's when she was first lady, is that correct? >> she was first lady. edith is what she wanted us to call her. he was so excited about john kennedy and that presidency. she got to live to see it was, you know, wonderful. >> kerry fuller, we're here on the main level of the house, up one staircase from the entrance. where would you sleep when you were visiting here. >> upstairs. only twice did i stay here for the night. there's a room between her room and the president's. there's two occasions. >> so three of you are left. is there any -- are you active in an edith wilson family at all? i mean is there any -- >> not so much with the family, but certainly with the wilson house and also with the birthplace so i'm involved with both of those, which is wonderful. >> kerry fuller of westchester, new york is here with us. upper northwest dc. nd we want to thank bob inhome and his staff for allowing us to come in with the cameras and showing you a few of the artifacts here. >> thank you so much. she made it to john kennedy's inauguration? >> made it to 1961. she was going to dedicate the woodrow wilson bridge that all of us who live in washington noel. she was going to dedicate it on is birthday. she was 89 and contracted pneumonia and she couldn't make it. she died on his birth date. > woodrow wilson center that's active in this town, when did that get started. >> that gets started -- excuse me, that gets start in the 1960s -- i think it was authorized under kennedy. >> yeah. >> he -- he authorized the commission? >> right. >> and that it gets started -- the late 1960s. he was in the old smithsonian building. it was oddly enough the little reagan building. and there -- i think that's a very fitting memorial to wilson. it really does bring together scholars and policy makers. and wilson was no ivory tower. he believed that scholarships, that learning should be brought to bear in public affairs. that was himself. i mean, this man took the lessons that he had learned, the insights that he'd gotten from the study of politics and put them in to practice. this is a man who got a chance to practice what he had been preaching all along. and i said this a number of times, people think it's hyperbole, it isn't. i don't know of any other career in american history or any other history that i can think of, that better justifies the study of politics as a preparation for he practice of politics than woodrow wilson's. >> in chill relsz, virginia, you're on the air? >> yes. yes. i'd like to make a comment. this woman, edith bolling wilson, is a appalachian woman. the first -- the first and only appalachian woman to become first lady. nd i wonder if the experts would be interested in ommenting on her appalachian role as care giver and the fact she was a care giver for the president and on to his legacy and really might be responsible for a lot of the legacy that president wilson has in our national history? >> i don't know that being an appalachian woman made her stand out at that time in america. i think men and women to a certain degree are the principle care givers of family members. edith -- ellen came from rome, georgia which might nickly be called appalachian also. she was interested in the ppalachian mountain craft. she remodelled part of the white house, the president's room with quilts and hangings and fabricings. she set up a scholarship fund there in memory of her brother with her earnings that she got rom her paintings. i kind of feel she was the one who focussed more on the appalachian 2345i chur or characterern more than edith did. >> as we finish up here, i want to frame her life. she met woodrow wilson just shortly after ellen died. he proposed very soon. she became first lady. very quickly, without much preparation for the role. how soon after that did he become ill? and then how well did she take care of him? >> well, she was president -- she was first lady to a functioning president about 4 /2 years and she feels nurse aid to a president another 4 1/2 years. >> then he lived for how long also incapacitated after he left the white house? >> that would include the time she was incapacitated. >> just under three years all together. >> he dies when? >> february 4th, 1924? >> and then how is he memorialized at his death in this city? was there a big public funeral? >> oh, yeah. it's really quite lovely. they had -- they -- edith, president coolidge offered at the capitol to have a state funeral. she declined. they had a service at the house. presided over by the presbytarian clergymen and the bishop, the washington bishop. edith is episcopalian. she did not change to be a presbytarian when she married him and he made no push for her to do that. the procession up massachusetts avenue to the cathedral. there's the interment there. in those days, there wasn't too much in that cathedral. his tomb was moved up interestingly enough in the centennial year of his birth, 1956, up to -- then finished -- finished a principal part of the cathedral. so it's a -- it's a -- it's a lovely ceremony. and to me one of the nicest touches was that when the funeral was -- at the end of the service, a bugler played "taps. they had a hookup to arlington. they knew the exact moment so that the bu galler from arlington also played "taps". >> she lives how long after she died? >> 37 years. an extraordinarily long time. he dies in 1924 and she dies at 1961. >> what was her life like? >> she spent the rest of the life being woodrow wilson's widow. she tried to interhis legacy. she chose the first biographer. she controlled the access to papers very, very closely. she controlled how his image was portrayed. she wrote her own memoir. as i said, with her own spin on it. she collaborated with darryl to make the movie about wilson. she really had the tight rein on what he feels allowed to do. but to me the most important thing that she did was she supported something that he had supported during his lifetime, the woodrow wilson commission, is it call? >> foundation? >> foundation. >> and they helped to create the united nations and they also collect these papers that arthur link and his team edited so there are 69 volumes of woodrow wilson's letters and other significant papers, many of the letters in the first ladies, even letters from mary peck. and i think that's -- that's her biggest legacy. >> we have video that was film of francis cleveland and edith at a prince ton university. you tell us the story? >> i don't know the story about them. at the bicentennial of prince on, 200 years. they gathered all of the living first ladies together. and mrs. cleveland, who whuz much younger than grover cleveland had lived in prince ton. so she was there. and there was edith and that's truman. i don't know if eleanor roosevelt was there. they tried to have them all. but there's a president of president truman with these three first ladies. yeah. >> i know that ellen wilson had to entertain theodore roosevelt at an army-navy game when woodrow was president of prince ton. and she did contact frances cleveland for advice on how to entertain ex-presidents. > did she go back to the white house? > who? > edith. did she ever go back to the white house again? >> i don't know. >> with the kennedys. >> yeah. >> and i think with the roosevelts. >> one thing i thought was very interesting is that when fdr went to congress on september 8 the day after the bombing at pearl harbor, he invited edith wilson to come and sit in the gallery as she had sat in the gallery when wood row wilson called for war in the first world war. >> your question? >> i have a question here about the president's illness when edith was covering up or not letting the nation know about his illness, was she being investigated or did she commit a crime by doing this? >> i don't know that it was a crime. i think it was a big mistake. no, there was no congressional investigation. i mean, that -- christie mentioned the smelling committee sending the senators up to check on him. that's as far as they are when they got with it. >> as we close out here, first of all, james m. wants to know about edith wilson's funeral in 1961 when she died. what was that like? >> i had no idea. was there anything special about it? >> the quiet people. she was buried with him in the cathedral. >> we talk about them, they were the first and only presidential couple to be married in the national cathedral in washington, d.c. those of you who went to europe to see many of the famous people. they got to one president and the first lady. that's it. so in the -- in the close of your book, i want to show a christie miller on screen so people can see the biography of two wives. ellen and edith, woodrow wilson's first ladies. if people can see the cover, i'm going to open it like i did the last time you had conclusions. e did wilson undeniably had an impact on history. she took over after his stroke enabling him to remain in office. had he resigned in the u.s., he would have joined the league of nation. you write regardless of whether edith wilson had an effect on international relations, her actions changed constitutional law. her assumption of power for woodrow wilson's illness was well known on presidential suppression. this is the part i wanted to go to. edith wilson did not use the power of presidential spouse as constructively as she might have. she made no effort to model better notions between the races. her personal style did warm up woodrow's stern image in the public eye and the leadership in world war i, knitting, selling bonds, working in a canteen, provided a good role model for american women in wartime. so wrap a bow around all of this. what we shouldn't think about edith wilson's tenure in the white house and the contributions to the role of first lady and to the country. >> i think as john suggested, unfortunately, her biggest contribution is what not to do, even as late as 1987, william sapphire was writing to nancy reagan writing a column that even as late as 1987, william safire was writing today at the to nancy reagan, don't you be in edith wilson. don't you battle in presidential politics. i'm afraid that is, in some ways, her greatest legacy. >> what an interesting story. take you for being here and telling us about the two first ladies in woodrow wilson's life. thanks. 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cost our country 600,000 jobs? >> yes. moving discretionary funding backed up to the original cast and not having the sequester take effect. >> and that would take a half a point away from gross to mustek product? >> by the end of 2014. florida, thein types of jobs we are talking about, we have seen some very harmful impact. our premier cancer research center in tampa, before the sequester, they had 120 researchers working to find a cure for cancer. they are down to 100. the air force base is one of our largest community economic drivers. they are furloughing mental health counselors among others. that part of the budget is shrinking, but the sequester does not give us a lot of room to maneuver on where we want those cuts to take place. law enforcement, job losses from cuts to the court, very significant cut accident education. adopted republicans this cr last week, it became crystal clear that they intend to march forward with those sequester cuts. report and at your those kind of expenditures are not the drivers isthe long-term that. it what america is investing in right now in innovation or infrastructure or education. are those the drivers of the debt and deficit? >> no. government spending, except spending a handful of large programs will be a smaller percentage of gdp by the end of this decade than it has been at any point since the 1930s. termss growing in dollar and relative to the size of the accounting -- the economy is social security and medicaid in particular. of nondefense discretionary spending, historically nearly half has been investment of some sort. about 20% has gone to physical capital, building highways, about 15% has gone to education and training, investment in human capital. add 10% has gone to research and development. half of this has been an investment of some sort sort.>> -- of some >> we have a real mismatch here on what the republicans have set forth in debate. just last week on the cr, i watched the debt reduction strategy, you want to continue the sequester, meanwhile the cbo report says the long-term drivers and the aging population , we have proposed significant reforms in medicare. the health reform -- medicarerm act, taking to a system based on quality based on those models. we need to sit down and negotiate. the republicans refusal to negotiate on the budget for the past four months has led to this mismatch in policy. of myed to many republican colleagues who say yes, we want the sequester, we want these cuts, but i hope you study the cbo cost reports that's not the investment in infrastructure driving the long- term. thank you for being here. let me just bounce a couple of different issues. on social security disability, ast is your report on that far as where it is headed in the coming days? >> the disability assure -- disability insurance trust fund exhausted in 2016. >> three years? what is done once it exhausted? canhen the payments presumably be only as large as the incoming receipts which are not enough to cover all the payments the government is committed to under current law. >> what has brought about that moment? did the date change? it used to be 2020? of that datetion has moved around over time. the disability insurance rules have increased markedly over the past two decades. we've done a number of reports trying to show you what the sources of that increases are and give you policy reports to address it. by peoplen pushed up have lost their jobs and apply for disability insurance. >> are you aware of congress implementing any of those policies question were >> no. >> do you think it might be time to implement those? >> at some point, when we get to solve some of these issues, is tot the first entitlement reach the insolvency level is the disability? >> only a few of these benefit programs have trust funds of this sort. >> if we implemented some of the policy options and we discussed some of those in the days ahead, how many years would it take to brings the -- to bring some stability to that? havelock is ticking and we three years before insolvent. would that buy us another year depending on what might be or would it take several years to get into the system and build it up? >> in principle, you could make very sharp changes overnight. >> we could at a lot of deficit dollars. benefits ad just cut lot for existing beneficiaries. but in practice, congress makes changes that are phased in over time. emphasizes the importance of deciding as soon as possible what changes you want to make. if you want to phase them in and you need to forestall the adjustment of the trust fund or get an increase in debt, it's even more important to make the decisions and start the process right away. >> you made some pretty remarkable statements about the tax revenue going up. in real income and the interaction with inflation, it would push a greater proportion of income into higher tax rackets and certain tax increases before -- that would generate increasing revenues. is this what we faced with the amt for years because it wasn't inflation-adjusted? we had a growing number of people on that track customer >> is not as traumatic as the amt would have been. larger, got larger and the jump under current law got larger and larger. >> since it was in your alternative fiscal scenario that there would be an extension of the amt, is there a discussion that congress will again not allow more and more people to be tracked in these higher taxes in the days ahead? >> our alternative scenario tries to extend policies congress has extended the past and not -- it might be hard to sustain. one of the things that scenario includes is holding tax revenue at a lower level indefinitely rather than rising. in the past, congress has ended to act to cut taxes when tax revenue got to be a larger share of gdp. >> you talk about how if the deficit comes down, there is real growth in income that goes up and you may statement about it that when sovereign debt is requiring more and more of those individual dollars to come out, less any goes into capital investment and that slows the economy down. is the interesting to me assumption is private dollars going into investment has a greater increase on the economy than government dollars taking that and investing it into the economy. >> i think our view would be investment has done good things for the economy erie most investment occurs in the private sector. there can be government investments that pay large dividends over time. modeled that affect specifically in this analysis. >> thank you. >> thank you, mr. chairman. it's always good to have an economist here. up on the screen because i want everybody to see it. it is one of your charts and in the fiscal commission we have lionized, bowles simpson, called for 400 billion dollars in health-care care savings in their original proposals. hase that time, our cbo reduced medicare and medicaid rejections by roughly $1 trillion. more than twice as much as they suggested erie it is that correct? >> yes. 1.25lly about introduction. >> that means the chairman blaming our deficit on health care spending is not quite accurate. we are actually reducing it and it is questionable as to whether it's going to be a major cost of our deficit in the future, isn't it? >> our projections of growth have come down. as you know, in our current projections growth is the largest factor leading to deficit spending over time. analysis a sensitivity to our health care spending growth to show even if it's a good deal lower than we expect, the debt would still rise relative to gdp. >> there are just too any people living too long? >> i would not say too many people but there are a lot of people living longer and that increases the numbers of beneficiaries of medicare and medicaid. a large share of the medicaid dollars go to older americans for longer-term care. >> so we cut off the spending at the federal government -- earl levels for people on the program. how will the terror be paid for or will they simply not have care? >> i think it depends on what you did, congressman. americans do not have substantial financial resources. if they suddenly face a larger burden, that would affect the care they could buy or other necessities. >> or they turn to their children. >> yes. that is possible. 1964 in thisbefore country when old people didn't have health care insurance. that is what my grandmother did. she came and lived with us and we paid her bills. that's what went on before the program. what they are saying is we are going to cut what the government spends on old people and they can cut what ever they want after that erie they can go out and vague on the street or not have the care. >> i can't speak to what the they in your sentence wants to do great >> look at your chart on page 10. will blue sky here in about 75 years great i want to look at the chart and ask you a question which is we are not making investments now. the civil war, during the civil war, abraham lincoln started the land grant colleges, did the homestead act and the national railways. that looked like reckless spending to me. have ald you do when you big spike and you come to the second world war and we have the and bill and we have fha bha and the federal highway system under eisenhower all reckless spending by our president at that time. why was it the country did not go into default and disappear from the face of the earth because of this reckless spending that had been done by these presidents? give us anwork? explanation. >> i must from -- i am less familiar with the post-civil war time but after the second world war, the congress balance the budget and the economy grew rapidly. >> where were they getting the money to get these scholarships to every guy came back from the military? g.i. bill of the rights. where did that money come from? >> the federal government raised tax revenue equal to the spending it was doing. raised the tax revenue and did that? they were investing in the people? that is what created the greatest generation? >> darman investments laid some role but i don't know how important they were. >> where did they get the money taken from a highway system? >> thank you. thank you for joining us today. a couple of comments that came from the other side we need to correct that don't need to be hanging out there. the sequester was the president assad idea. she doesn't like it, i can give her a phone number. >> he offered to replace a time. >> this is my time. i didn't interrupt you. >> the other comment was from mr. van hollen. he said we've done nothing about the sequester. unfortunately, he is incorrect. we have tried to replace the sequester more than once. >> will the gentleman yield on that. that is not what i said. i said we haven't taken action in this congress. >> the other thing i would like to say is they republicans talking about the republicans shedding of the government is incorrect. those are irresponsible and reckless comments. >> one of the things we have raise taxes.eed to increases in marginal tax rates would reduce out put relative to what would be the case with lower rates, all else being held equal. rateher marginal tax increases the return on savings, weakening people's incentives to save. less saving implies less investment and lower output in income. you stand by those comments, don't you? i would like to remind the other side of the aisle that for all of this year about wanting to raise tax revenue that they could damage the economy. let's move to the real world for a minute and talk about this -- talked about taxes for a second. if the government has a law that increases health care premiums good orr 20% year, that bad for employment and economic growth? >> i think it depends on the policy. >> but me tell you what the answer is. they are telling me about what has happened to the past had counted what's going to happen to future headcounts. what if we have a policy or law that causes employers to reduce full-time employees by reducing maximum weekly hours -- is that good or bad for employee gdp growth? books it does include some investors for moving toward part-time employment. districtployers in our say it's bad for employment. how about federal regulations that cause the price of energy to skyrocket? hire prices tend to slow the economy. >> i yield back. >> good to see you again, director. let me ask you a couple of questions. as we all know a mouse republicans cut $40 billion from snap funding. many of us believe this is morally wrong and ably troubling. especially considering nearly one in five children in america suffer from food insecurity. means sixn in cuts million families will be cut off from this vital economic lifeline. at a time when so many are already struggling to stay afloat, this is mind-boggling and unconscionable and it's wrong. rationaleertainly no for throwing hungry children, families and seniors off of snap. compellingnk of any economic rationale either. it is $1.70 generated as an economic activity. you in termso ask of the economic benefits to snap spending, does the cbo estimate the current economic impact of these types of cuts on the health care costs in the future? second, it has to do with the public option. cboink it was 2011, the public option would reduce the deficit by about 88 lien dollars between 2012 and 2021. given the affordable care act and itbout $140 billion would cost about $109 billion to repeal, what you think from a fiscal point of view a public option would achieve had we included them in the exchanges? what would be the downside or upside physically. your -- about snap, the legislation that passed the house would reduce the number of people receiving step benefits by about 4 million in 2014. we have set a number of times in receivinghat people snap benefits or other benefits of this sort have a high propensity to spend the money it tends to bed a short term boost for the economy and taking money -- taking money away would be a short-term drag on the economy. and the second question about the public option, we have asked you report correctly from our and set of budget options including a public option in the insurance exchanges would ring down the federal spending. that was $90 billion over 10 years. we have no rean to think it would be markedly different today. >> thank you very much. >> good to see you again. i want to go down the path of this idea that the sequester is hurting the economy and killing jobs and so forth. do government jobs better the economy? >> yes. if the government pays people earn money byhey -- >> where does the government get the money to pay that person? where does the government get the money to pay you? -- ny extra spending >> where does the government get the money to pay you, me, and hundreds of thousands of other workers if we were laid off would hurt the economy? that moneys some of through tax revenue. >> it confiscates that money from people in the private sector, correct? >> it raises some of the money from tax revenue. >> it confiscate -- >> those we your words. >> we take money from the private sector to fund the jobs of the government like you and me. but she raised tax revenue. >> it is a tax on them. >> borrowed from people who send in the money and provide the cash. >> people who are not around when you and i are dead. >> it depends what policies. >> you probably run a lot more in the morning than i do so maybe you will live longer. to run the government, to pay people who work these government jobs, we take from somewhere else. we take from the private sector. that is less property, less money that they have to grow the economy. you don't agree with me, obviously. how much does the economy grow by paying these people to be in government jobs? , you sayssman government jobs help the economy, to what extent? >> i am not sure what the policy experiment you have in mind is. >> i'm asking you questions. >> i can't say i understand the question. the economy grows with government jobs. how do you quantify that? >> it depends on the economic circumstances. in an economy where there is sufficient demand for goods and services, all the demand is true. additional government job is likely to come out of the job and the private sector. if demand for goods and services is less than the path for the then additional government are owing that has been spent to government employees or to provide benefits put that ine and our area. >> why don't we tax everyone 100%. that would be a surefire way to increases.dp >> it's not true every tax rate. i'm speaking about the economic situation and the taxes we have in the country today. more rarely borrow temporarily. >> no -- that yout believe actually grow the economy. we already have established you and i have a difference of opinion. you well know because of what he said that to grow the economy with all these government jobs, and am trying to quantify what you mean and understand why we should do more of this are owing, more of this conversation to better ourselves, to just get ourselves out of this hole. >> two thoughts. opinion, a group at the university should of ship -- whether leading economists across the country, whether the economy had made output higher than it otherwise would have been. 80% of respondents said yes and four percent said no. my opinion is widely shared. >> by keynesians. >> this is economists across the country. the best quantification i can give you is in response to congressman then i'll imposter questions. >> i would simply say the sequester is not the problem. under eighties? >> years of the clinton administration, the so-called confiscation tax rate was 39.6%, is that right lester mark >> that is the tax racket. this confiscation rate, approximately 20 million jobs were created in america, is that correct question are >> i don't remember the number, but it was quite a few. it was a tremendous economic boom. >> during the eight years of the bush administration which immediately follow the clinton administration, am i correct the so called top confiscation rate was dropped up to 35%? >> yes. lost 600,000 jobs during that customer >> i don't member the exact number. >> as it relates -- a statement made earlier by one of our colleagues suggested a number of people might look at this conclusion and be perplexed at our inability to move forward. we all agree there's a long-term deficit and that problem we need to confront. perhaps the problem is we've reached the integrity of the budget process that the house has passed a budget, the senate has passed a budget and the next step in that process is to move forward with conference committees because the math we should be paying attention to is the electoral math. electoral math is a divided government contest and there are 54 democrats and independents in the senate which constitute a majority. brock obama did win reelection with the one percent of the vote , only the second president since eisenhower with two consecutive popular vote margins a exceed 51% trade we are in divided government context and should move forward with the integrity of the process. so we can work it out and perhaps try to find common ground to move things forward. you have stated in your testimony that the consequences of default on the debt would be long lasting and damaging. >> they could be long-lasting and very damaging and i think it's a interest humble to default on that obligation. >> i think you said it was a risky strategy to stop paying with the united states government owes. >> yes. >> part of the problem with the faulting on the debt is that it would erode the confidence of investors in the belief that the united states has the ability to manage its economic affairs. is that right? >> yes. >> one of the reasons why some of the european countries are colleagues love to elude to is the reason they find themselves in the situation they are in right now is because there was an erosion in confidence of the ability for those countries like greece to manage their economic affairs. >> yes. part of the reason for that erosion of confidence is the rate on our debt moving forward would increase perhaps quite significantly. >> it could grade yes. >> an erosion of confidence leads to an increased quite possibly in our debt burden and the increase in the debt burden worsens our long-term budget outlook. >> yes. reason it part of the would be irresponsible to simply attempt to hold hostage the full faith and credit of the united states of america in the context of us paying our bills as we confront the need to raise our debt ceiling and i hope this congress will come together and stop playing partisan politics as it relates to this very serious issue. one last question in this remaining time that i have. -- does the increase in minimum wage largely benefit low-end workers? and low-wage workers are more likely to immediately it -- medially spending increased income? >> that is right. people who work and receive a higher wage would have higher incomes they realize they could spend. wage can alsoimum reduce the number of people who have jobs. >> an increase in spending and consumer demand would lead to economic growth, is that right? >> under current economic editions, the increase in demand for economic services would boost output and the number of jobs. >> i yield back. asked last time the government shutdown, this was a sign posted in the window of the smithsonian air and space museum in washington dc. it's the federal government shutdown, the smithsonian institution must be closed. we regret the inconvenience. this is him a "wall street journal" article that says for most presidents, shutdown is a rite of passage. shutdowns that range from one haveo three weeks -- there been 17 partial shutdowns in the past 37 years. you can read more at the "wall street journal." the house amended the senate bill to extend government funding through mid-december. year.the law for some tweets for members of congress as the fiscal year comes to an end tomorrow night -- oregon democratic representative student but amici says a house passed bill linking the delay to health care law, how disappointing. we need to work together. a pennsylvania republican tweets five democratic senators to to repeallegislation medical device tax. this is their chance to get done. john boehner says the senate must act today to prevent a shutdown. to comed on the senate back into session and set of the senate stalls it would be an act of breathtaking arrogance by the leadership. says we are on it even of a shutdown. a cleanhouse to pass resolution. we urge speaker boehner to reconvene house, last day -- pass a clean cr and move on. the house not scheduled to return until tomorrow morning at 10:00 eastern time. the republican leaders could have votes as early as 11:00 and the senate is set to return for general speeches and consider a pair of judicial nominations. aey are expected to take up bill to fund the federal government and fund the military in case of a government shutdown. the house live on c-span on our companion network, c-span2. >> who's to say what the cleveland clinic is doing has anything to do with obamacare? madame president, the answer to that is who's to say? the cleveland clinic is to say. a spokeswoman from the cleveland clinic said "to prepare for , cleveland reform clinic is transforming the way care is delivered to patients. added three hundred $30 million would be cut from the clinic's annual budget. >> we know there are things we areng right now that going to be paid less by private and public affairs. medicare is paying less, sequestration, having effect on decreasing has had an impact on our research. we have to decrease our costs still further. all of this goes to change how health care is together. it's not one single thing that did it or one program that's done it, dale series of things starting back 5, 6, seven years when weminating in decided those changes are so significant on whether we are going to pay and be even more stringent. >> the head of the cleveland clinic on the future of medical care in the united states, tonight at 8:00 on c-span's "q&a." >> next, part of the atlantic's women of washington series with democratic senator, patty murray of washington, chair of the budget committee. she talks about the problems of congress dealing with the federal budget, her work on behalf of women's issues and her experiences working in the senate. she's the first female chair of the senate budget committee. she says she backs president obama's no negotiation policy and any attachment on debt ceiling legislation will be sent right back to the house. this is one hour. >> it is hard to get a large audience of mostly women quiet, isn't it? i'm happy about that though. welcome. thank you for being here. my name is elizabeth baker. i'm vice president of "the atlantic." welcome to washington. i also want to welcome the viewers that we have on our live stream, as well as c-span. we are welcome to have a larger audience outside. "the atlantic" covers women and family issues and women professional issues in the pages of the magazine with articles like -- on our website, there is a channel that covers a lot of these issues. i thought i would bring your attention to our latest issue, including one i thought particularly interesting as a mother of three, "my daughter's homework is killing me." [laughter] this is about a father who decides to do his daughter's homework. 3-4 hours of homework per night and sleep six and half hours. not necessarily a good thing we're doing for our teens and tweens. we try to bring women's issues to life. this is the fourth program we have had this year so far following janet napolitano. we want to shine a spotlight on the careers of some women have done really well in washington to hear the personal stories and hear the career stories as well. we're very pleased to welcome senator patty murray as our guest, who is chairman of the senate budget committee. before i invite patty up to the stage, i want to give a special thank you to exxon mobil. they have been partners on this program since the beginning. we came up with a get together to try to bring together a community of women leaders in washington. exxon mobil has supported the program since offset. our partner terry is vice president and is the leader of the washington office for mobile. she joined the firm in 2001. prior to that, deputy assistant at the department of energy. a few housekeeping notes -- we encourage you to be part of the conversation. you can tweet comments. the hash tag is #atlanticww. we will also have an opportunity for q&a at the end. we are taping and live streaming. silencer cell phones please. i'm very happy to introduce senator patty murray. senator murray was born and raised in washington. she never imagined a career in politics. she got into it as a mom. she was advocating for one of her children. she miniature to washington and was told she couldn't make a difference. she turned around and made a grassroots organization that indeed made a difference. they were able to reverse cuts. she was selected to the washington state senate. in 1992, she went for the u.s. senate pursues a tenured veteran. she was selected as a senator. she was reelected in 2004 and 2010. in addition of being the first female senator from washington state, she serves as a chair on a committee. serving as a member of the senate credit leadership since 2007, she has established herself as an effect if leader on education, transportation, security, and veterans issues. welcome. interviewing her will be karen. she is new to the seat. thank you for doing this. welcome. she has a full-time role at msnbc. it is on air saturdays and sundays. she has had a long career in washington, in politics, working for presidential campaigns and at the white house and and in the new york senate race. she has been a commentator in the hill. again, many thanks to karen and senator patty murray. >> thank you. [applause] >> i thought were read would start is the story about the school is one. one of the things that i thought was so remarkable and by wanted to start their is when you look at the hearings this year on military sexual assault, so many women there are asking questions and comparing that to that picture of anita hill being questioned by all of these men. it felt like we have come such a long way. >> it is a good place to start. >> absolutely. looking forward to hearing your thoughts and comments as well. i remember it like it was yesterday. i was a state legislator. we were working passionately on issues i cared about. preschool education got me into politics to start with. issues around family and fighting for things that i cared about. i remembered hearing about a nomination back of the nation's capital. the entire nation keyed into what was happening in d.c. i turned on my television to watch the united states senate committee interrogate this poor woman named anita hill. i kept looking at this committee. god. all men. not saying but i would say. i felt disoriented. i went to a dinner where everyone was talking about that. i will have to run for the senate. i didn't hear anyone say what i am saying. [laughter] it came from that. i felt passionately that you can sit home and complain about what is going on, but sometimes the only way to change it is to say, ok. i will do it. i went to the senate in 1992. no one gave me a chance. i was out 3-1. i was kind of the quotation at the end. no one believed me. no one at the time -- they felt they needed someone who would be their voice. i came in. i came in in the year of the women. it was a change or the country and the responsibility of being part of that. fast forward to the hearings now where every single committee has a woman on it. i can see my voice being reflected time and time again. i think that is a great piece of progress for our country. it is one of the things that has really changed our country. this is a test i think it's one of the things that has changed our country. diane feinstein is chair of the intelligence committee. people always say women's issues. intelligence, agriculture. barbara boxer with the it department of environmental works. we are not just a voice, but we are a player, making sure the passions we care about, the priorities we care about, the voice we care about is from the legislation. >> we are going to talk a little bit about the drama. everybody has got to have their moment. senator jill a brand -- senator jill a brand -- gillibrand is a friend of mine. sometimes we need to get away from the testosterone and get something done. i wonder if you can talk about how women's leadership has changed the weight wings are working. -- has changed a way things are working. >> we all felt the weight of doing a good job, not for ourselves, but for other women so they would be in politics and do our job. we found we are our best supporters and could share things. our team leader brought us together for the first one, and we found this camaraderie to be able to say, where's the dry cleaners, or i'm trying to work on this legislation for women in rwanda, and i don't quite know how to do it, or i have got an issue going at home, and i need to get is done. -- get this done. we were our best supporters. we have continued the tradition for 20 years. we welcomed new women from both parties. we really do go and then talk about everything from somebody's new grandchild or where the best place to get fast food is late at night or how we can focus on the budget crisis. we have every one of those discussions. i think it has been helpful for us, and our goal still remains the same. if we can help each other be successful, other women will be able to do the job. >> there is a lot of talk. when you hear stories from back in the day, people knew each other. there was a personal relationship, and it seems like it is the weapon carrying on that tradition. >> you find kids in your school, and you find common ground. we do the same thing. >> there is a dinner you had with president obama, which we are curious to hear about. >> it was one of my favorite because he invited 20 women to the white house to have dinner with him. we were looking at the white house lawn, and we shared everything. we talked about finding a solution. we talked about small issues and big issues. sort of towards the end of it barbara boxer said i am looking out the window, and i am thinking 100 years ago when women were fighting for the right to vote they stood out of that window and were arrested the coast they tried to get the right to vote. i am pretty sure that 20 women around this table would have been the 20 women protesting. it remind us of what we get so frustrated with the political process that a lot of progress has been made. our country has changed in a lot of ways. we are a country with great change, and we need to embrace that. >> a little bit of drama on the hill. and a non-filibuster to slow down this process, maybe you can tell us where we go from here. >> he uses the time available, and that's fine. here's where we are. we all know that finding a solution to our nation's budget was probably the top priorityal. we go without having any continuity. we wrote our budget last march, passed it in the senate, and normally you would go to a conference committee and work out the differences. surprisingly, the minute we did, they objected. everyone is going to be upset, and we will do something that keeps us running. here we are. it really is unfortunate. democrats and republicans have got to sit down at the same table and give. that has to be done, and our nation deserves that. >> it strikes me that over the summer we saw this old up, and we had some are republicans -- this buildup, and we had some republicans saying it was never going to happen. now we seem to be at the testosterone filled movement, and it will go back to the house, and there is a ping-pong between house and senate, but you are already hearing about house members having a list of demands for increasing the debt ceiling. how is that going to get us out of this crisis to crisis zone? we are talking about a continuing resolution. we aren't even talking about a budget. >> the house passes a bill that is completely unacceptable. we're not going to take away the progress we we have made for providing health care in the country. we are going to take it in the senate. it will be sent as a resolution. i think it's important to remember that we are talking about the government while we keep this issue. this is how we manage ourselves. they decided to make a temper tantrum about that. that's where we are. the debt ceiling, what are we going to do? i cannot believe the republicans would use the debt ceiling to throw our country into economic turmoil when we know we are just getting to feel stable again, when we are all beginning to feel we can go to work and not get a pink slip, that wall street is not going to collapse, and they are going to throw the country into turmoil? i cannot believe they are going to do that. the rational thing to do if there were a group of women in charges we would keep the government running for the next several weeks, and we would say, we are going to pay our bills, and let's do what we have to do and pay our debts. that will take the leaders of both parties coming together and giving. which is how democracy works. >> who are the leaders on the republican side who can make that happen? we have seen a lot of frustration with john boehner's ability to negotiate. it does seem mitch mcconnell has been less willing to be out there because he is worried he is being primary back in his home state of kentucky. we have all these. who do we negotiate with? >> i think the republican -- the problem is republicans are being controlled more by the tea party part of their group. they really don't want our democracy to function the way it is. harry reid uses the word anarchy. i don't know if i would go that far, but they came here to vote no. how do you function? that is what speaker boehner is dealing with. you're right? who do we -- you're right. who do we bargain with? more republicans are saying to me they feel strongly their party has to stand up to that faction, and i agree. i am a democrat. i want democrats to be in the majority, but in order to be a good country, we need a republican party who can negotiate with us, and we don't have that functioning right now, but i predict we will have a better republican party. >> so by midnight on sunday. >> you're going to get a continued resolution. i cannot imagine the republicans want the face of their party to be that they cannot come to an agreement on small things. i cannot believe that even with the faction that is hard to deal with a would want that for republicans. >> we have seen this idea that perhaps they will try to shift the conversation and get something done there but then really focus on the debt ceiling and the list of demands and other things they are going to insist upon, but shutting down the government is horrible. the debt limit is a very serious threat. >> i think they are making a mistake if they are saying to the american public that they are going to put our entire economy at risk in order to get their projects, even if i agree with some of them. precedent that sets for the rest of our lives. every time someone is in the majority or the minority they use the debt ceiling or the economy to get what they want? we cannot run the economy that way. it's one thing if you have defenses about women's right to choose or differences about how much funding should the for education, but to put our entire economy at risk when we are at the global marketplace where other countries are competing for the same thing we are and we look like a third world country that cannot manage itself, i think that's very dangerous. >> does it take leadership from the president to make that happen? >> the president is clear he will not negotiate over the debt ceiling. >> where do we end up if he is not willing to negotiate and they aren't willing to budge? >> they are apparently working on christmas tree filled demands to raise the debt ceiling. they haven't been able to get the vote for everything they said they wanted either. what they are saying is i know you will never vote for the debt ceiling, but if i put in a pipeline, will you vote for it? let's wait and see what they get together. we will send it back clean because that is the responsible thing to do. they are going to have to live with their willingness to throw the economy -- i go back to the 1990's, when newt gingrich shut the government down. i got on a plane to go home, and people said, what are you doing here? i went in my office and answered the phone to people in tears who were not going to get their social security check. they were not able to pay their rent. if the republicans take us off that cliff and companies lay off people and folks are not getting their social security check, they are going to sit there very long. i don't think they're very smart to put us in that place. they are going to sit there very long. >> what about the business community. it strikes me that the shutdown in the clinton white house it was -- i was nonessential. it strikes me that part of the dynamic was something everybody could understand, but the debt ceiling, for a lot of folks in ohio and pennsylvania, it's a harder conversation and an easier message from the republican side to say we are standing on our principles, and we aren't going to raise the debt ceiling. >> i think businesses in america are really concerned house republicans would but our economy into a crisis. first of all, many of them do business overseas. when they lose out because someone says your debt is no longer good or we don't trust you, they are going to lose out to other countries. their business overnight can be flipped by this economic policy. i think businesses are putting a lot of rusher on republicans. -- a lot of pressure on republicans. they put themselves in a real bind, so they have to figure out how to get through that. i would hope the business community stands up. the last time we talked about not raising the debt ceiling, our credit was downgraded. >> there is a list of other stuff that needs to be done. we have got syria. there are so many other issues. how do we get through this and focus on those issues? >> everybody here knows the way you get to a budget agreement is that we sit down and hammer it out. i am going to have to say, i will take that back to my caucus and get the vote on it. the republicans have to say the same on their side. i will tell you the 12 people on the supercommittee were really good people, and we spent a lot of time walking through details and talking about what we could put on the table. i had the ability to say i can't bring my caucus with me. what i didn't have was the republican chair who could say the same thing. he had to go back to boehner, who went back to the tea party. we need the people in the room who are willing to stand up and be the leaders on the democratic and republican side, to say i am going to make the best eli can for my party, and then i am going to take it back and sell it because that's what our party needs. >> let's talk about the other issues. let's hope we get a settlement by midnight on monday. talk about veterans affairs. there has been a lot about the backlog issue, a lot about concern for mental health. that was raised again with the navy yard. talk about that. >> my own father was a veteran. he was injured. seven kids in my family and my mom didn't know the extent of his injuries and what he went through, only that he was a veteran. when i was in college, it happened to be during the vietnam war, and most of my friends were protesting. i was trying to get through school, but i was in my senior year and had to pick somewhere to do my internship. i chose the veterans hospital to do it. i am taking an elevator to the seventh floor, going on to a locked ward to work with men and women my age suffering from posttraumatic stress disorder, although that word was not used at the time. this to me was really vivid. i am dealing with these young men and women dealing with mental health aspects of serving our country. i just remember thinking, somebody has to be a voice for those people, never knowing later i would be elected to the united states senate and be there when we have thousands of men and women coming home serving not just one term but 4, 5, and six times with the health issues -- with mental health issues and being in a position to fight for them. the country wants to help. it's unlike the vietnam war. i think our country respect these people. i think our country feels that way today. we want to stand up and provide services, but often the stigma of mental health -- you have to be the warrior saying you have challenges -- is not easy, and critically, it is fighting the culture of our military who don't want to accept that mental health is a challenge we have to deal with, so changing the culture of the military, changing the culture of us as a country, not saying i feel bad you have eds the, but i'm not going to hire you. that's a bad attitude. it's a complex problem to have the services available and to have us of the country doing everything we can, not just saying thanks but really being there. >> it strikes me that the affordable care act is a place we could change the conversation given that it would provide services and treating it like any other illness. that could be a place where you have republicans fighting against the affordable care act, talking about the need to address mental health issues not just for our veterans that when you are looking at things like gun violence. >> mental health the person themselves have to ask for help. but there is somebody to answer the call when somebody asked for help. this young man was not silent about it. the question we have to ask is did we give him the right things? >> do you think we are making progress on military sexual assault? >> i want that to be better. we stood up and held a three- star general. i think what's great is we have women in the senate who are not going to say, it's taken care of. i think the military recognizes it, and the military recognizes they need people to come into the military. if we say i don't want my son or daughter serving in the military, we aren't going to be a strong country. the military has to change. this is not a topic where we say ok, we took care of that. >> in terms of the issue of do these get handled in the chain of command, what resources are available outside of the chain of command. where do we end up? >> the good he is we are actually about the solution. we are having a really good debate about that. we will figure that out, but the good news is we are having a debate about that. we didn't have a debate 20 years ago. we are saying it is not working. we want to get it right, and i think we will. >> we are going to take questions in a few minutes. let's switch to education. let's start with early childhood education and the president's proposals regarding headstart. where do you see that going? >> i am the only preschool teacher in the united states senator here -- united states senate. i know how important it is for our young children to have the ability to be successful, and there is a huge difference between those who have some kind of support in terms of the six feels we need as americans and being able to work in a group, and we have left the hind the vast majority of young kids today. we have left behind many competitors. we have decades of experience, and every country in the world has shown we need to invest in early childhood education, and we have not done it. a teacher told me 80% of her kindergartners come to school on the first day and don't know how to turn up page in a book. what were they doing? a lot of parents don't know to read to their kids, and a lot of parents do. we need to give them the skills to say, reading to your children is not just fun. it is important to their brain development. i am 100% behind our country really focusing on those young kids. you know who is with me on this? police chief. they tell me the vast majority of people in their jails never had early education. for me this is a no-brainer that i am passionate about. >> is their support on the republican side of the aisle? >> i believe there is. we are looking at the overall budget. what are the priorities? we have spent so much time talking about the deficit that we haven't talked about education. we haven't talked about transportation infrastructure. we also have to deal with these other deficits and get that investment. >> there is talk about increases in military spending. we know that the miniscule amount of waste, fraud, and abuse -- >> you cannot teach a child to come to class hungry. for our young people to be participants in the community, you have a group of 24-year- olds, and they have not had something to eat in a couple days, they aren't going to learn anything. i am mad about this. >> there is a level of conversation we have been having. we are talking about $40 million, and we are not talking about investments in early childhood education. how do we shift and find partners on the other side to make those investments happen. >> first we give them courage to take on the tea party. there were a lot of republicans who worked with us. they really understood the need for early childhood education. right now those kinds of republican senators are so fearful of being eliminated in a tea party primary all they think they should talk about is how they can cut back. we need to give republicans a way to work with us to lower the cost in our jails when we invest in early childhood education, to have a group that are healthy and well-educated. we need to get back to that topic. >> one of your roles has been working to recruit candidates to run in the senate. i wonder why we don't have more women running and what is the argument you make to them to have more run? >> i think it is important we write more policies and repeat back to their constituents what it is. if you have all men creating legislation, women will turn them off. you need women explaining it as well. nordstrom's understands that. i have women and men who are sales people on purpose. having diverse body is important. why is it important for women to be in politics? we bring issues to the table, but we help america understand why we are fighting for what we are fighting for. i do think it's important, and it's great to see people. i would tell you i have chaired the democratic committee twice. you don't recruit people into politics. you open the door for them. men the first thing they say is, to money have you raised? they can speak to them. i think they need to know that one enlisted to them while they speak. >> a question to the left? >> i want to thank your staff for their interest in looking at how we can capture savings from budget processes, and i am wondering your thoughts on that and how we might move forward. >> that is a huge amount of affordable care, refocusing us from paying huge amounts for all the things that cost more. we have got a huge disconnect when we look at it. insurance companies cover you until you are 65. insurance companies have never been interested in doing prevention for those diseases you normally spend a lot of money on after you are 65. it is somebody else's problem. we need to make sure the health care system focuses on prevention. it's what the affordable care act does by providing health care coverage for people so they do have mammograms on a regular basis. if you have knowledge and make the decisions about yourself, then you make the decisions about yourself. if you don't have the knowledge, you are going, if i had just eaten more vegetables, or whatever it is. we need to help people do that. a lot of businesses are looking at wellness. >> it's not just having information but having access. there isn't always this understanding that some people don't have the opportunity to make a good choice. >> go back to those kids who come to school and don't know how to turn a page in a book. if they haven't been read to, have they ever had immunizations? have they ever had simple care when they were young that helps them be healthier? probably not. we have to make sure we work with those communities and provide them with the knowledge they need. parents want to do the right thing, but it is helping them get the knowledge. >> other questions? >> i work for government services. you mentioned several times congressman boehner and other republicans need to go back to the tea party to get permission to get legislation passed, and i think it has been well established that the tea party is not a grassroots organization at all. it's basically funded by people like charles and david coke. how does the senate stop something like the tea party from holding the rest of america hostage? >> i hate to give advice to my republican counterparts, because i want to stay in the majority, and i want to win, but i would say, you need to stand up to the tea party. people will admire that and respect that. people want their legislators to work from a point of courage, not the point of fear. that is were tea party members are winning. if you have republicans that look fearful versus a strong person who says they are going to go for it, you will lose, but if you say, i disagree with you, and this is what is important, they are going to start winning. >> i've had private conversations with republicans in this town. there were so many republicans who thought what rush limbaugh said was terrible. i said, why don't you say that? they said, we cannot speak out against rush. similarly, you hear the conversation about tea party people. as much frustration as they have, it deems like a are -- like they are looking at their colleague. >> that's leading from the point of fear. people don't support fear. whether you are a ceo or a legislator, they need to be confident in their leaders. if you are confident in your self people will be confident in you. they need to take them on. >> i am peggy. i am a congressional report are for hispanic outlook. i have to cover all sides and all issues. i have met a lot of republican women. very often everyone thinks the same. there are a lot of african american women who don't approve of gay marriage. i am worried about people becoming less tolerant. the press is making it hard to work with tea party people. how do you work with them? fax she and i have introduced legislation to gather. i have a tremendous -- together. i have a tremendous amount of respect for her. she was great speaking out. she took on her own leadership. we need to reward that in america and in the press. often that gets lost. >> with the democratic women, there is diversity of opinion. >> i come from a big family. we recognize i will not agree with kelly on certain issues, but we don't have to debate that all the time. let's find out what we agree with. i think it's important to say, we have a budget in front of us. what can we do? that's how we come to compromise and how we are willing to do that. i think the reward of encouraging people to do that is what we have lost and needs to come back. >> is that a function of how women lead? >> we chair the transportation committee. we both work closely together. i realize there are things she needs i may not agree with, but i am willing to put that in the bill so she has something she can bring forward. we wrote the bill. we were told we would never get it out of subcommittee. i think i may be your only republican vote, and we ended up getting six or seven republican votes, and we brought it to the senate floor only because mitch mcconnell thought we weren't going to pass any appropriation bills. susan and i respect each other. she respects what my values are. we know what our common ground is. we know when we disagree. we don't need to focus on our disagreement. often we are moms. we have kids. we know we cannot give them what they want always, but we listen to what we can give them. that is another trade. >> a good experience for working in the senate. >> i want to say thank you for all the leadership you have demonstrated for children with disabilities and our veterans. it has been a joy to work with you on making sure they get what they need. we come from the radical position that people need health care to live independent lives. one thing we have been proud of is market reforms, no pre- existing conditions for kids. we think all those things are good for the middle class and families. we are frustrated by 41 or 42 votes in the house. we think that's silly, but what are the implications of all these votes from your perspective? >> we are very clear. if we want to keep government running we are supposed to repeal the affordable care act. are there parts we can make better? of course there is. but are we going to take maternity care for women in this country and go back to a place where pre-existing condition is being pregnant and you don't get health care? are we going to go to a place where kids reach their cap by a- year-old and are denied health care? a woman was saying to me -- they were lamenting the health care bills. i didn't have to say anything. a woman stood up and said, i have to tell you, my son is severely disabled. he has never been able to buy insurance because of that. i am getting older. i am so scared. i could not sleep at night, but he can buy insurance. he is going to be ok. don't take that away. i think as more people see that we will get past the temper tantrum. they can say it didn't work. >> one more question. this woman on this site? -- side? >> i am the mother of a preschooler. i am really curious. it strikes me how antiquated it is. i have to go to the fields and harvest them, and over the summer inner-city kids are not getting as much food. they are falling further behind. i wonder when we are going to have a conversation about basic fundamentals. let's teach art and things so kids have a way to learn and we can do our job. most of us are farmers. i wonder why we have a hard time tweaking a system that is so wrong. >> there are a lot of creative things being done to deal with that. every woman who is a professional and has a child at home has two address that. we need to allow women to choose to do both. we need to allow women who want to stay home to stay home, and we need policies where women who want to focus on a professional life are supported by that. that's what we want. making sure our kids are ok is so critical for the nation. we do a better job when we know our kids are ok. when we have to pick them up at noon or we get charged twice as much, those things make a challenge to do our job. let me throw one thing out i am seeing happen as a result of women speaking out, and that is the issue of daycare. it makes our stomach turn. there is a group of educators working with daycare folks to give them curriculum so they are actually giving them curriculum that will help them be a better daycare person. i don't care if you have three kids or 20. the daycare providers are ecstatic. they are being told their job is perfect -- important, and here is how you can do it better. helping those people feel they are a critical part of our country and giving them the skills to do it is going to help all of us in this country. there are some great skills. i wish we had done that. >> take you. we are going to close our program. [applause] >> thank you very much. we know you have a lot going it was wonderful for you to share your thoughts and experiences. a very special thanks for supporting. keep an eye on our website for news of our other upcoming programs. thanks again, and enjoy the rest of the afternoon. [applause] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] him him him him him him the human general assemblies meeting continued saturday in new york city. one of the speakers was mobile saw me. he talked about building toward a democratic state and foreign- policy positions on issues including syria, the israeli- palestinian conflict, nuclear nonproliferation and counterterrorism. he spoke for about 15 minutes. >> ladies and gentlemen, a gives me pleasure at the outset to congratulate you for assuming the presidency of the general assembly at the 68th session. it is important to express my .ppreciation to present he is try to realize the theoses and are choosing ,osts 2015 development agendas considering the high priority the united nations and the people of the world accorded to the achievement of the development. to follow the normal practices of the debate by opening my address with a message i care with me to your people. also for the people of my country, the egyptians that have laid the foundation of human civilization and have recently inspired people worldwide. each holds a unique position past and present. it is essentially from its civilization. it would have been a historical the will ofy had the egyptians remain shackled. it is as natural to take to the streets to declare the determination in which their dignity can enjoy a, and social justice. they insured the world that the will of the people cannot be broken. it can grant authority just as it can remove it from those who abuse it. egyptiansions -- have an ambitious vision for the future. if success is based on a society that is open to all political a ways, legalistic in that embraces the diversity of all its members, and inclusive with the duties of all citizens are insured with equality before justice. are consistent with the fundamental rules throughout the world, mainly respect for a peaceful dialogue. they have the right to fulfill this vision. roadmap thatthe egypt is implementing since the third of july 2015. this includes a national agenda in a specific timeframe. all egyptians are invited to participate in all stages as long as they are committed to the renunciation of violence and terrorism. work is underway in line with the roadmap. it has so far succeeded in establishing the principles of justice, freedom, and democracy as a basis of providence. work is underway for the new constitution to be followed by so thatntary elections the transition phase continues. this requires us to give ultimate priority to the preservation of security and enforcement of the law and to change any attempts aimed at hindering our efforts. hit by terrorist attacks among the victims. they were egyptians from all walks of life. terrorismous acts of aimed at undermining the democratic process and destroying our economy. i would like to emphasize form dutch firm that i have full confidence that the egyptian formerly that i have full confidence of the egyptian people can do this. firmly stand by the egyptian people in the fight against violence. we do not accept any attempt to justify this. my deepe to convey condolences for the loss of innocent lives. the message i am carrying or those who are joining me here today in presenting their country and would not be complete without mentioning escalation to more democratic national elections and stronger ties of corporations between our people and the rest of the world. they should he chased on mutual i interfere in and in and in this good all in. of the willflection of our people. it is formulated in line with nationalest in security with no regard to any other consideration. we fully recognize that egypt's national security is linked to the security and concern of our air of nations. given the location and identity, egypt is committed to continue defending the interests of its continent, addressed the issue of the world. egypt remains committed to tackle the challenges facing the south. i would like not to briefly highlight egypt's position toward separate issues of high priority foreign-policy. ladies and gentlemen, in syria the tragedy has reached a point of resorting to chemical weapons. we strongly condemn the use. we support the agreement between russia and the united states as well as security council resolution 2118. while the unitarian crisis is unfolding, it is on the verge of disintegration. they will preserve the unity of the state. we hope this can be achieved through the holding of the geneva conference so that it can be put in place to end the civil war as well as two and the ford interventions which we have so long warned against. the palestinian question remains the first in our region which is still suffering from the effect of the continued israeli .ccupation achieving a two state solution was on the verge of failing terrifically -- irrevocably. the commitment so far by both sides to engage in a process of negotiation whose a significant a significant development. we should all support the ongoing ago station so they lead which finest settlement continues through the past century. egypt will continue to support the right of the palestinian people to the establishment of an independent and sovereign state with east jerusalem as its capital. this must be met. it is morally unacceptable. they have access to basic supplies. they will agree on appropriate legalement that guarantee and transparent ways. they might agree with us that a new middle east will not come without ensuring the right to equal security in getting rid of the threat post by the existence of nuclear weapons and other weapons of mass distraction. the situation threatens the credibility of the nonproliferation regime for that reason. and to preserve this credibility i announced before you today an initiative from this um consisting for of the following steps. inviting all countries of the deposit with the secretary-general of the united nations, stating their support for the middle east region. free from weapons of mass destruction as well as nuclear weapons. the countries of the region that all signed well -- on weapons of mass instruction should commit before the end of and will show thew yo relevant pensions. proof of that.w i invite the secretary-general of the united nations to so that they are carried out simultaneously in order to ensure their success. that israel exceeds to the non- peripheral us a nonnuclear state convention and science and ratifies the biological weapons convention. that's. ratifies the biological weapons convention and takes the remaining steps that have pledged to the chemical weapons convention. egypt ratifies the biological weapons convention and signs and ratifies the chemical weapons convention provided that all countries of the middle east complete measures to the international conventions prohibiting the mass destruction. continued pursuit to ensure that the conference to establish a weapons of mass destruction in the middle east is sweetly held, preferably before the end of egypt roots are greatly ingrained in africa. we are proud of the numerous changes it has witnessed as well itit has taken -- the stride has taken toward democracy. they had this to resolve the conflicts. accordingly, egypt will soon establish an agency for partnership for development. most of the future resources will be directed to african countries so that they can from egypt's technical expertise. democracytalk about and the rule of law at the international level and a substantial reform takes place. are better able to respond to challenges. the only logical and sound way to achieve this desired outcome today is through the reform and expansion of the security council. accordingly, egypt renews the end the decision-making process to the council and to rectify the historical injustice inflicted on africa. it does not have a permanent seat in the council and is poorly represented with nonpermanent members. as i conclude, i would like to highlight once again our priority issues with in the united nations system. strengthening the international right framework, accelerating the achievement of development pools, realizing nuclear disarmament and fighting corruption including recovering efforts stolen by key members recently brought down by our people. we are determined to continue internationally and nationally. will contribute to the vision for the world and for the future. i would like to take this for theity to welcome youth. it is also considered efforts at the international level. will coordinate these efforts and adjust the root causes. hope the message i was was seen by all of you here today. i hope this is contained so that we achieve prosperity, peace, and development and that we come back to reap the fruits of our labor. thank you. >> this is the woodrow wilso [applause] >> on friday night, the un security council voted unanimously to adopt a draft resolution that calls for the destruction of serious chemical weapons. tomorrow the u n general assembly annual meeting continues in new york city. we will bring you live coverage of the deputy prime minister beginning at 9:45 a.m. eastern on c-span2. today on c-span, our first lady's influence and image a series focuses on the life and times of allen and edith wilson. followed by newsmakers with "newsmakers" with ernest moniz. >> this is the woodrow wilson house in washington dc the home of our 20th president and first lady edith wilson. after they left the white house in 1921. you will be seeing more of it over the next two hours as we tell the story of the two wills and administrations first ladies, allen and edith. >> allen and woodrow met in their 20s and their love for each other was reflected in passionate letters. to help guide his career from academia to politics, he set an example for future first ladies, ellen wilson died just a year and half into the president's term. the grieving president soon met washington businesswoman edith galt. they married after a secret courtship and edith wilson served as first lady for more than five years. her unprecedented role in managing the president's affairs after he suffered a stroke remains are the most controversial efforts of any first lady. tonight, the story of the wilson administrations to first ladies, ellen and edith. we have two traffic deaths here to tell you about these two interesting women and the times in which they lived. her book is allen and edith, woodrow wilson's first ladies. john mills cooper is woodrow wilson's biographer. thanks for being with us. we have been telling the stories chronologically, but everybody knows about edith wilson managing the white house as it is described after her husband suffers a stroke. we will tell that story first because so many people really want to know what happened. john cooper, let me start with you. when in his it ministration did he suffered a stroke. >> more than halfway through the second term. it was october 1919. here just returned from a whirlwind speaking tour. he was tried to sell the country on ratifying the peace treaty and going into the league of nations. he had really worn himself out on that and his doctors actually aborted the tour and got him back to the white house. after about five days in the white house he suffered a massive stroke third >> the story of the stroke night itself is very dramatic or it can you tell us recently what happened that night? >> there are some conflicting reports about what happened, but i think that the most accurate portrayal is that he got up in the morning, edith had been going into check on him during the night and she found him slumped to the floor and couldn't move his left side. she went out into the corridor and used a telephone that did not go through the switchboard. she did not want to have this universally known. she asked the chief usher to call the doctor from this other phone. the doctor came in and they helped him into bed, but he was paralyzed on his left side. >> a character that is going to be a big part of the story is kerry greeson. >> kerry greeson is the doctor. here been inside the white house first under the taft administration and then shortly, taft introduced him to his successor wilson and pretty soon after the inauguration, wilson sister fell down and grace and treated her and did a good job andgrayson treated her and did a good job. and he was a virginian which went a long way with the wilson's. he was the white house physician. he was the one who treats him. they called in various consultant specialists, but grayson was the one who treated wilson. >> what was the extent of his condition? >> what was the extent of his condition? how badly had the stroke affected him? >> he had a blockage in an artery leading to his brain and this is usually not a fatal stroke, but it did immobilize him for a while. he probably would have recovered fairly rapidly had he not 10 days later suffered a second medical condition. he had prostate trouble and he had a urinary tract infection with a very high fever. of course they didn't have antibiotics at that time, they debated whether to operate, but the specialist felt that to operate on a 52-year-old man with high blood pressure and a stroke would have been very unwise. so they just decided to let nature take its course and eventually he recovered, but it really sapped his vitality. this one-two punch really did him in for about a month. >> christie is free to agree or disagree, but i think the worst effect of the stroke on wilson was really on his emotional balance. his judgment also. his intellect wasn't impaired and his speech was an impaired. yes some he could function that way, but so much more goes into being a leader and the president then just being smart and being able to do these things. another thing is, partly because of that other illness that you just talked about, christie, they isolated him. that is when you're supposed to keep away from stress. now they know it is exactly the wrong thing to do. what you want to do with the person who is had a stroke is get them into social interaction. with the best of intentions they were doing exactly the wrong thing. >> dr. grayson's letters are part of the collection at the woodrow wilson library at stanford about two hours from washington. in putting this program together, we will learn more about wilson threw grayson's letters. >> we have a letter in this box from henry morganthau who wanted to write about experiences. so he was asking grayson if he could use certain information. the information you gave me about president wilson and you're having come to the conclusion that he should resign and how he was influenced by mrs. wilson to give up this plan. so mrs. wilson was very concerned that her husband would not get better if he did not have something to engage his mind, that he would just deteriorate if he was forced out of the presidency. while president wilson was ill, it has been speculated wildly among historians -- speculated widely among historians. we have one document here that sheds a little bit of light on that. it is a telegram from henry morgenthau who was the ambassador to turkey and he is writing to dr. carey grayson asking if the president has any objection to a citizens meeting to protest against turks being left in control of constantinople. and morgan saw has been asked to speak at this meeting -- and morgenthau has been asked to speak at this meeting. at the bottom of this telegram is edith's handwriting. we are familiar enough with her handwriting to recognize it as such. at the bottom she writes, thinks it well to postpone speaking on such subjects. what we don't know is, did you just take this telegram into wilson, ask his opinion and then write that or did she just come to that conclusion herself. the public was very interested and curious to know the condition of wilson's health. rumors were rampant in the papers, even congressmen didn't know what was going on. they only knew what they read in the papers. after it was all over, carey grayson later wrote a summary of what happened from the time of the stroke until wilson left the white house. on the last page -- the decision was made to announce that wilson was suffering from nervous exhaustion. there were no other details given as to what was wrong with him. really no one knew the extent of his illness. he really was not capable of doing anything. dr. grayson thought it wise to issue general statements only. further, mrs. wilson, the president's wife, was absolutely opposed to any other course. she did not want it to be known that he was really suffering. again, she was protecting her husband and she wanted him to be able to fulfill his duties as president. she was worried about his legacy. ultimately, she was concerned about his health and she felt that if you left the presidency, left the white house, he would just waste away and die. >> >> so how did they react? >> a couple of different ways. robert lansing who was the secretary of state and would have been fired if wilson hadn't had the stroke, there had been a bad break, that is another story. but lansing tried to get the cabinet in on it and i think he even made some communications with the vice president, who stayed out of it completely. he simply said no. greeted in the constitution. this is before the 25th amendment actually is not as much of a protection as we think in cases of inability. we won't talk about disability this is the inability of the president to do his duties. what does that mean? this means if he were dead the vice president succeeds. this is the one time that we really had a disabled president. how do you deal with it? edith was scared. this was a very scary thing. make it up as you go along. on facebook, david welsh says, what part of personality or intellect prepared mrs. wilson to take over during his recovery? what skills did she bring to this responsibility she was taking on? >> that is a very good question because she had exactly two years of formal schooling and her whole entire life. she came from a large family and had been chosen by her grandmother to take care of her, to be her caregiver. her grandmother was a very opinionated woman and taught edith, basically, that it was good to have opinions and to make decisions. edith had been widowed relatively young and had inherited gault's jewelers which was like the tiffany's of washington. so she kept the jewelry store and had a manager who made a lot of the decisions, but she was used to having everything her way. so she brought this very decided personality. in addition, woodrow had courted her by showing her a lot of secret papers. henry kissinger used to say that power was the ultimate aphrodisiac. i think woodrow wilson would have agreed. so he was using this entr? to the secret papers as part of his court ship pier and she was susceptible to that and so he shared a great deal of what he was doing, really a great deal of what he was doing, with her. i think john said that she probably knew as well as anyone what he was doing and what he was thinking because he was a real lone wolf when it came to being a president. he did not have a lot of close advisers. >> that is true. >> this is from edith wilson herself. they published her memoirs. in this big controversy about how much power she took upon herself. here's what she said or did "i myself met never made a single decision regarding the disposition of public affairs. today we know, the gatekeeper to the president is really the most important job heard >> he or she controls accent to the president is in some regards president. as she said, it is not just who got to see him, they pretty much embargoed well for well over a month. no one got to see him. but also what the president gets to see. she would decide what was best for him to see and what not. to me, one of the raps on edith in this was that she was putting her husband's health ahead of the good of the country and that somehow the priorities were wrong there. well, i don't think that is entirely why she did what she did. she knew what he wanted. if he couldn't express himself, she knew he would not want to resign. he would want to hang onto this. as christy said, she knew his mind better than anybody else. if anybody was going to access a substitute -- if anyone was going to act as a substitute, she was the best. >> the secretary of state got lakhdar the cabinet members very thickly. wilson's secretary plus the loyalists like eaker and daniels in the cabinet but a kibosh on that very quickly. >> there were two senators who were detailed to come in and assess the condition of wilson because it came out when lansing went up to capitol hill that he hadn't spoken to the president about a very volatile situation in mexico. they deputized one democrat and one republican and edith and dr. grayson really stage-managed that very well. accounts differ on exactly what they did, but whatever it was him it was enormously successful, including the republican who would have been most anxious to show that there was something wrong with wilson, set to the press afterwards that the president grasped his hand with both of his. but that was impossible because a president could not move his left hand. but he was so taken with his apparent animation. he made a lot of jokes, because that part of his thinking came back for quickly. he loved to make puns and he loved to tell jokes and stories. that came back relatively quickly. but as john said, the judgment was really what took a hit. >> we have a timeline of the president's incapacitation. as john cooper told us it was september of 19 19. it was in march of 1920 when he left the house for the first time. by the way, we have to talk about all of the political intrigue and important decisions going on in the aftermath of world war i. his beloved league of nations was rejected by the senate at that time for the first time. in april of 1920 the president had his first cabinet meeting, eight months not meeting with the cabinet. it is almost unthinkable. how could the cabinet continue? >> i routine. and also, wilson was a great delegator. except in foreign affairs. other than that, he gave his cabinet secretaries lots of leeway. so they were used to running things on their own. it is just very lucky and maybe something of a tribute to that that the government function as well as it did. not all that well, but it did keep going. >> there is a story about edith. all during that time, what really was her role? >> i think one aspect of her role that was overlooked is the extent to which she tried to make woodrow give way on some of his intransigence about the league of nations. in her memoir, which is fanciful in places, she says that she asked him leads to compromise with the republicans in congress to try to get the treaty passed with the league of nations. she said that he turned to her and said, little girl, don't you desert me to. she was about five foot nine. she says in her book that she never try to change his mind again. but, we have evidence that there were at least two other occasions on which she did try to change his mind. she and his chief of staff had discussed some of the places where they hoped woodrow could give a little ground and where the republicans could give a little ground and they hoped to find some compromise. she took some notes very hurried, almost shorthand notes of what is obviously a speech that she was going to give to wilson that wound up saying and for the sake of the country and the peace of the world, please consider this. it didn't work, apparently, because he didn't change. she was not a woman to take notes on something and not do something about it. a little bit later, she had some conversations with ray standard baker who is very close to wilson and later became his official biographer. he gave edith some suggestions, again, some talking points, to try to get wilson to change his mind. but he didn't and by the time he refused, by that time the republicans were also heartening their line. some of the hardliners were reeling in the republican leadership. >> so donald on facebook asks if edith ever spoke out publicly on the league of nations. >> she did not speak out on anything. this is again to correct a big misperception of edith. i do not think she was at all power-hungry for herself. she wanted what her husband wanted. his agenda was her agenda. she used to say to people, i never make speeches. i think she made a few, years after woodrow died, but during the time he was in the white house, she was asked to present something innocuous like a bouquet of flowers to the girl scouts and she said i'd like to make a speech, but i never have and i won't. she did not even approve of voting for women. or women's suffrage. >> let's go back in time, but before we goes up the section to reviewers, we thought you'd all want to get this out because it is such an interesting aspect historically. what is the bottom line of this. in american history? how did it affect how we view the role of the president, the role of the first lady and the constitutional issues? >> the role of the president, i mean, woodrow follows theodore roosevelt and these two together acting one after the other, made the president the center of the government, the active part. and even presidents later such as calvin coolidge, especially, who wanted to retreat to the sidelines, couldn't do it trade that is what really changed their. the first lady role probably in terms of -- i think ellen had more to do than edith did. >> that is a great segue because we are now moving into the ellen story. >> tonight is a special two-hour program because we have to first ladies to talk about. our lines will be open and you can reach us if you live in eastover central time zone. you can be part of the facebook conversation, go to c-span on facebook and finally you can tweet us using at first ladies and be part of the conversation. we're going to roll back the clock and talk about the long marriage of woodrow wilson to his first wife ellen. to sit the stage for that we're going to visit the wilson house. it is available for you to visit if you come to the nations capital. inside right now in the drawing room is peter. >> we are here with law and home who is the executive director of the house. this is a house where president and edith wilson lift post- presidency. how did they acquire this house? >> they moved here literally the day they left the white house in 1921. this home cost $150,000 and they managed to scrape together the money i assembling both president wilson's winnings as the nobel peace prize winner and also donations from canada's wealthy friends and political supporters. >> edith wilson lived here until her death in 1961. that is 40 years. also them expired in this home. >> in 1924 for president wilson. although it is edith wilson's house a mother is the presence of ellen wilson, isn't there? >> we try at the woodrow wilson house to remember the president's years which include both first ladies, both ellen wilson and edith wilson. it is important when you are considering figures in history to remember that they had childhoods and experiences that led them to the places that they were. >> so what are we looking at here? >> this is a painting painted by ellen wilson who was a painter of considerable talent. even as a young girl she knew that she was a good painter and enjoyed it. it is interesting that when president wilson proposed marriage to her she said yes, but i'd like to go to the art students league in new york, which is where she went to school for a year before they were wed. it is interesting that president wilson at that point in his life accepted that and married this woman who was independent and really laid the groundwork for and understand during of the role of women in society. his last wishes included the wish that this painting hang over his casket before he was laid to rest at the national cemetery. >> we are about a mile from the white house. we will show you some more a little bit later. >> thanks so much. edith was born in georgia in 1860. tell us about her early life. >> her father was a presbyterian minister and he served in the civil war, but he had to leave because of some stress-related conditions. he died in a mental institution, possibly a suicide. allen was very close to her mother, but her mother died in childbirth with her fourth child when she was 43. so ellen really had to take over the family, first after her mother's death she had to take care of her father and then after her father's death she had to take care of her brothers and sister. so she became a very competent manager. she was very well educated for a woman of her time and place. she would have gone to college if she had had the money. when her father died she had the money to go to the art students league in new york for one year. she was very unsure that she would ever meet a man who could be her intellectual equal which she felt was necessary for her marriage. in fact, she had plans to open up a boarding house for women and supported with her artwork and people around town started calling her belly the manhater because she was so clearly not going to be satisfied with anyone in the town. but then woodrow wilson came to town. he was a lawyer at the time, he had a case, he went to church where her father was preaching and he met her there. >> how important was it that both alan axon and thomas woodrow wilson, with the children of ministers? >> in some ways that is the world they grew up in. not so much the u.s. of the south, but the presbyterian church which in many ways is a world unto itself. what it didn't make them though, either of them, and i think this is true of wilson as much as it is of ellen, it didn't make them religious zealots. it did not make them obsessed with religion. in some ways, religion was so central to them that in many ways they could take it for granted. it is in the background. it is always there, it is important, but the two of them but of the two of them, he was more the good strong believer. she is the one who had the religious doubts. especially because with the various family troubles depression ran really ran in the axon family. probably one brother, eddie, who died in a tragic accident as a young man, was about the only one who wasn't touched with depression. ellen was -- in some ways metaphysically and philosophically she was more curious than wilson was. wilson was much more interested in the affairs of the world, but religion is a background. >> he was interested in the affairs of the world, but he is so easily smitten with women. he falls. and this is an important character of his personality. he knew instantly that he loved this woman. women have played an important part throughout his biography. what do you understand about women and his psychology and the role that they play with him? >> i wish i could say that he was a man who -- of great enlightenment and forward- looking views. he wasn't. he wasn't bad though by the standards of that time, he really comes off pretty well as having, believing strongly that women are very bright and very capable. generally, i think he still likes the subordinate role. basically, he just liked women and more so than men of that time he enjoyed the company of men very much, but he just generally enjoy the company of women and he enjoyed their intellectual companionship heard >> but he is so passionate. he is very passionate and very eloquent and so when you marry those two traits and the letters that he wrote to ellen after they were engaged, they are just the most astonishing love letters you will ever see. and she was quite eloquent, too. >> some of the love letters of woodrow wilson to ellen are preserved at princeton university's manuscript library. we are going to learn about them next. >> here on the shelves are the correspondence between woodrow and eleanor. they are love letters. it has to be the largest collection of love letters exchanged between any present and future first lady. these letters were sealed. when the woodrow wilson family moved, they were sealed. it is a time capsule shedding extraordinary life on the wilson's life together. woodrow is living in baltimore going to john thompson's. he wrote to ellen in 1894. when you come into my study, stitches me as i sit at my desk. it is odd how this attachment of viewers to me seems part of the force of my mind. my darling, i trust it is not wrong to worship you as i do. you are the presiding genius of both my mind and heart. and in that fact, this the happiness and strength of your woodrow. i think we see the extent to which woodrow wilson not only loved ellen, but acknowledged in a very clear way his intellectual debt to her. in how many cases can you say that the first lady and her husband, that he is stepping forward and saying i acknowledge that you are the source not only of my happiness but of my intellectual development? you introduced me to literature, to wordsworth, to browning. they would sit together on the campus and read wordsworth together sitting in the grass. he acknowledged that profound role that ellen plays in his life. he says how can i thank you dearest for the sweet things that you say in today's letter. how happy it makes me that you think such things as me, even when i feel with a heart ache how sadly unworthy i am of it all. i too trust it is not wrong to worship you as i do. i had as well question that it be wrong to breathe. for i am in every breath altogether your own ellen. often, she doesn't respond to them quite as passionately as he writes to her because she does tend to be a bit melancholy. but in this is an exuberance that is really delightful. allen was so devoted to him, you sense net l she puts herself second to his needs again and again throughout their life together. she is serving him and helping him. that was her conception of what her role was as woodrow wilson's wife. as she is dying in the white house, that tragic summer, august 1914 with the world about to enter into great international convulsion with world war i about to break out, she is dying in the white house and she grabs the hand of dr. grayson and whispers to him, dr., if i go away, promise me that you will take good care of my husband. >> it might be hard to answer this question, but are listener on visitor ranks asked us where we would rank them on the loves of presidential couples. >> it seems to me it would be hard to come up to their level. as john cooper pointed out to me this very night, lying in arthur links collection of woodrow wilson's letters. >> arthur linked was the greatest will surge -- was the greatest wilson scholar there ever was. in the volume that covers august 1914 and ellen's death, the editors, here it is, this is the introduction of this very stately monumental scholarly thing, with the editors bid a fond farewell to ellen wilson, whom we have all come to love. that is over the years that it had affected them so much. >> woodrow wilson asked her to marry him just five minutes after he met her. they got married when? >> they got married two years later. woodrow had a great strategy. he had had a girlfriend before and she had refused his offer of marriage and so i think he was once burned twice shy. so he had decided that he was going to propose to ellen just before getting on the train to go to baltimore and attend johns hopkins in political science. so that if she refused him, there would be no awkward lingering as he later said. so they had met each other by chance in this town where neither of them lived. they were just passing through and he persuaded her to stay for a couple of extra days and meet his family. when she -- when he proposed to her, she was so startled that she blurted out yes. she had meant to, but she blurted this out and they had hardly known each other. but he was going off to study for two years, so they had a two-year engagement, since they didn't know each other very well, it was the marvelous letters through which they became intimate. >> mary kay is watching us in san rafael california. you are on the air. caller: thank you so much for the series. i was wondering what the first lady and president thought of the pickets in front of the white house for suffrage in 1917. >> this would be back to edith. they were very indignant, especially edith was very indignant. she thought they were rude and at one point woodrow offered to send -- to have them come into the white house and get warm and have half -- and have hot coffee and they were -- and they refused. he did not believe -- she did not believe in suffrage for women and thought all this was quite foolish. there were two suffrage organizations and one of them was trying to go about amending the constitution in a state-by- state way, in other words have suffrage passed in the various states and then get more people in congress to support it. woodrow receives the members of the national association of women suffrage -- national american woman suffrage association, and some people believe it was the extremism of the national women's party that allowed the more conservative group to make progress because they were seen as a lot less threatening. >> we are going to come back to his early years with ellen and his wife before politics. he is the only president who moved from the presidency of the university into politics and to the white house. how does he get to princeton and how does he get to the presidency? >> first of all he was a presbyterian minister son and princeton had sort of severed its official ties with the church, but it was still a very presbyterian school. if you are a bright young man, princeton was a place to go. he wanted to step out from the south, to. he went to hopkins briefly, his first teaching job was at bryn mawr, a brand-new college for women. he actually like teaching there. he liked the women at bryn mawr better than ellen did. she objected to the modern woman that he did. he got back to princeton in 1890, became the most popular professor there. basically, he was one of two real stars of the faculty. there was some intrigue among the trustees and everything to get him to the presidency, that he got chosen president in 1902. then he tried to reform princeton and succeeded a bit and failed quite a bit and really got stymied when the new jersey bosses came along and offered him the nomination for the governorship heard he took it from them and then turned on them immediately and became a reformer. a lot of things made him a front runner quite early, so he made a remarkable transition. in two years he went from being a university president to being president. the governorship was just a small interlude. wilson is one of those people with the exception of a lock, who succeeded in everything he did. he is one of the great lyrical scientists. he was a great scholar, a great university president. he was the best-known and most effective university president of his time. he is ranked among the best governors and he was one heck of an effective president, two. >> we love the interconnections here. grover cleveland after he left the white house went to princeton to practice law because it was difficult for a former president to do much else. is it true that the families knew each other and that the children even played together? >> i don't know about the children playing together but i do know that they knew each other. >> we are going to show your prospect house which was the house at the wilson's lived in on the time that the presidents house. today is use for social functions. as we look at it we are going to learn about ellen and woodrow wilson's political partnership and how that develops. >> this is the study of prospect house and it looks very much as it did when woodrow and ellen wilson lived here. this would have been woodrow wilson's office. his desk would've been right here and here he would have met with students, faculty, university presidents, visiting people from across the world. it is here that he and ellen might've met to confer about university business. ellen wilson was highly involved with woodrow wilson's career. she gives him advice on what jobs he should take, what jobs he shouldn't take. when he was up for a post at arkansas industrial university she suggested that was a bad career move. she was very involved and a tremendous help to him. behind-the-scenes him throughout his academic career. i find this room, this study so evocative because it is right here that we can see woodrow wilson making that transition from academic figure two political figure. ellen wilson helped with all of this. constantly advising woodrow, helping them out and then he decides to run for governor and the reporters descend on prospect. it reporters descend on his study. in the interview him right here in this room. they photograph him in the garden and ellen wilson is quite alarmed. she begins to sense that she is going to lose any privacy she might've had. she is going to lose that carefully constructed, very close-knit home life that she had valued so much with woodrow. that is going to slip away when they plunge into politics. so they moved into prospect house, the young academic couple full of dreams, full of ambitions when she leaves prospect house. they are almost driven out by the trustees in 1910. when she leaves, she is better, she is exhausted and what awaits her is the political life's to check a tremendous toll on her, personally, in terms of her exhaustion, in terms of her energy, and psychologically. >> as his supportive spouse, how did her responsibilities change as she moved from university presidents wife to the first lady of new jersey and then ultimately into the white house? >> she was building on each of the things that she had done before. she had been involved in the small way with social outreach during the time that she was a private person. then when she became first lady of new jersey, she became very interested in social welfare. she actually took woodrow on a tour to new jersey to look at state welfare institutions like the home for the insane were the prisons. she had an early record of activism among social welfare groups. she also had to do a great deal of entertaining during the dinner that was given after woodrow wilson's inauguration in 1902. she invited booker t. washington to the horror of her seven and of her southern aunt. she had a great deal of entertaining to do as the presidents wife, more of course when she moved into the governor's mansion. at one point they were down in the summer home, they didn't have a governor's mansion, but the state of new jersey supplied a summer home. a little boy got lost and wandered into the house and came out afterwards and was asked if he met the governor. he said yes and she did me a piece of cake. >> what was her role in 1912? >> i don't think she did enough in the campaign. crexendo's interesting about the campaign was that she was, i believe, the first future first lady to go on a campaign before the convention. she and wilson went down to the south, especially in georgia where she was hailed as much as he was. unfortunately, they lost georgia. they didn't get the delegates from georgia. she had a hand in trying to get woodrow to patch up relations with williams jennings bryan to head three times in the democratic nominee. he was kind of the leader of the democratic party and he was very keen on helping woodrow get the nomination. >> she saw an opportunity. wilson had come from a different wing of the party. he had said some things about bryant that some of his enemies had publicized to try to make trouble for it she saw a chance to mend fences. she brought them together and they hit it off very well. brian and wilson had a good relationship down to some things in world war i. she is playing the same kind of role that she played in his academic career heard a very shrewd tactician, a very good facilitator. not out in front or in public, she didn't particularly like that role, either. but she was awfully shrewd. >> theodore roosevelt's challenge to his own party by forming the bull moose party that split the republicans and helped bring woodrow wilson into the white house. if you have to capitalize his political philosophy, what would you say it is? he called himself a protective a progressive democrat. he felt it was a government that made it possible for people to do things for themselves. he said i don't want a government that will take care of me, i want a government that will make sure that other people take their hands off me to that i can take care of myself. it is updated liberalism. is the individual's happiness, the individual self-realization. that is a great contrast with you to roosevelt. that campaign of 19 12 as the best we've ever had by far. what you get is really a debate of political philosophies between these two men. >> lee is watching us from durango, colorado. guest: thank you for taking my call. i have a question about the bill that was so important to ellen wilson and did such a wonderful thing for the city of washington dc. i would like to comment on youth wilson. she was more of a hindrance than a help. joseph thomas c, a major advisor to the president wrote numerous letters during his illness and they were discovered unopened until after her death. >> thank you so much for your call. she asks about allen's alley bill. >> when they came to the white house, ellen felt that as long as she was in the white house, not a place for she particularly wanted to be, she would use her position to do as much good as she could. she connected with a group called the national civic federation that had been around for 10 years or so. they were very interested in trying to clean up these little alleyways in between the bigger streets of washington where there were tumbledown shacks, great squalor heard they wanted to tear down all these buildings and do what we would now call urban renewal. ellen was so interested in this project that you took some of the congressman any white house car through the alleyways to show them the conditions of these houses that were right in the capital. she lobbied them to pass a bill that would enable this because at that time washington was run by congress. they didn't have their own government. she was i think the first lady to lobby for a cause that wasn't her husband's, outside of the white house. she was very effective at doing this. i don't know if you want to talk about all of what happens here >> we will come back to the story because it is connected with her passing. wilson decides not to have an inaugural ball, why is that? >> it was partly because of ellen. ellen thought it would really be a commercialization, something frivolous. it should be a solemn occasion. she was a very thrifty woman. woodrow did not make a lot of money in his early days and she had a habit of frugality. somebody once said mrs. wilson looks sweeter every year in that brown dress -- and that brown dress she wears looks sweeter as well. she prided herself on being thrifty. she just thought the inauguration, the not real balls were frivolous. >> will you miss watching us in new york city. guest: in new york there is often mention of the wilson girls in society. can you tell us a bit about their growing up and entering adulthood? >> he brought three daughters to the white house. >> yes and they were all roughly marriageable age when they get into the white house, so they go to balls and parties. allen is on record as saying that she doesn't approve of modern dances like the turkey trot. somebody else writes and says that ellen morris slaton who is a gossipy wife of a congressman. she kept a diary and said that they had been seen down at the military barracks turkey trotting with the rest -- with the best of them. she tried to keep a rein on her daughter's, and two of them did get married in the white house. considering that she was only in the white house for 17 months before she died, that is quite an accomplishment. she had a very big wedding for her first daughter, who was married in november. she had a very small, quiet waiting for her third daughter, who got married in may very shortly before ellen was bedridden. >> chad is in baltimore. guest: i wanted to know, after eleanor passed away and before youth arrived. is it true that margaret became the de facto first lady? >> i think she became the hostess. there has to be an official hostess. one of wilson's cousins helped her out. margaret did not much want to be the official hostess. she wanted to be a singer. she preferred to go to new york which is where she thought there were more opportunities to be a singer. i think the two of them tried to cope with the social duties. the social season was curtailed on the advice of ellen's social secretary ritchie felt that been a precedent stringy harrison administration when his wife had died they had curtailed the social season, so there wasn't too much entertaining that margaret had to do. >> despite her short tenure in the white house, ellen wilson also brought on the rose garden. we will learn more about that in our next video. >> we are in prospect garden here in princeton new jersey. this is the garden that ellen wilson originally designed when she was resident of prospect house from 1902 to 1910. i think that here we see the full expression of ellen's aesthetic vision. she is an oil painter, very competent. she knows a lot of the american impressionist painters of the day. she loves to paint landscapes, and as a corollary to that she laid out this extraordinary people garden at the prospect house. she plans to cedar trees, she plans all sorts of flowers. infection loves his garden so much that she hates to leave it when wilson enters politics and he enters princeton. she brings the white house gardener back to this garden at prospect house and says to the white house gardener, thus re- create the rose section of this garden at the white house. ellen wilson could look out of her bedroom window in prospect mansion and look right down and see the flowers all day. similarly, she wanted the president of the united states to be able to see roses when he looked out of his window in the white house. this becomes a famous rose garden at the white house. ellen tragically doesn't live to see the rose garden completed, however. she is dying in the summer of 1914. she is wheeled out into the space outside in her wheelchair and she watches as a gardener works, but she doesn't live to see the completion of this vision she had for roses blooming at the white house. that is a vision that really begins here at aspect of art and in princeton. -- that begins here at prospect garden in princeton. >> here is a photograph of what it looks like you're in the wilson administration and here's what the rose garden looks like today. >> we have for short tenure in the white house, she did during the 17 months. we talk about the alley clearance bill heard we talk about the rose garden and the fact that she was a professional artist, one of the first ladies who brought her own profession to the white house. how significant was that in setting the standard for future first lady zacher >> i don't think it really set a standard for future first ladies hurried ellen did earn money from selling her paintings that she donated to charity that she had set up for her brother in memory of her brother who had died. i think the only first lady who earn money while she was in the white house was eleanor roosevelt. it did not become a first lady tradition and just as well. >> next is aaron in greenfield, california. guest: becky for taking my call. i have enjoyed your show very much. as is my second time calling. the last time i called was through your first season when you were talking about the two wives of john tyler. i very much enjoyed your show so far. my question is about woodrow wilson's first wife ellen. when she passed away, where was she buried and when her husband passed away he was an attorney in the washington d c area. was his first wife's body reinterred to be buried next to him and also where was his second wife. when she passed away? >> thank you. >> the answer to that question about whether she was reinterred, the answer was no. she is buried in the family plot, the acts and plot in rome georgia. when woodrow died, edith was pretty determined that he was not going to be buried with ellen. then the choice was he had been a president of princeton and the presidents of princeton are buried in a very nice cemetery. there have been some ill feeling and still was, so that was out. in the meantime a very ambitious ship of washington, mr. friedman wanted to get famous people buried in the cathedral so you do have gotten admiral dewey. this is when washington cathedral was still very new. he approached you to about this and she liked the idea. he wanted to make the cathedral washington's westminster abbey and i was told that william howard taft granddaughter told him that when taft heard about this he said don't let those bodysnatchers at the cathedral get me. i think this is wonderful. this presbyterian present -- president was buried in an episcopal cathedral. >> was she sick the entire time that she was in the white house for 13 months? >> as she was. you saw the pictures of her leaving princeton and even being in princeton. she had first developed kidney trouble in 1889 when her third child was born. the wilsons decided at that time to have no more children. they used birth control. she probably had been suffering from kidney disease for some time before she got to the white house, would be my guess. >> she was diagnosed with something called braces disease. the >> that is an archaic term for kidney disease. i don't think they had a sophisticated tests as we have now. i was impressed that they were able to diagnose it as early as 1889. >> theodore roosevelt first wife also died of kidney disease as well. she died quite early in their marriage. woodrow and ellen had been married for quite a while. >> dennis mccarthy wants in on twitter, digg woodrow wilson become consumed with ellen's illness. to did affect his performance as president? >> not till the very end. by and large it was kept secret from him. so, that was ellen's wish. she did not want to burden him. >> i think everyone was in denial. the doctors kept telling her she would get better. i think the doctors were in denial. i don't think woodrow knew she was dying until the day she died. >> in the last few days when he was at her sick bed every possible minute, the world has literally fallen apart with world war i, and he had to deal with that. it's terrible. >> connie wants to know about the new role. -- about the funeral. >> they had the funeral in rome at the church where woodrow met her. the townspeople were there, but there wasn't a state funeral in washington. there was a little ceremony and the white house. >> yes, there was, at the white house. >> we already finished our first hour. here is our guest john cooper biography of woodrow wilson. what i wanted to do as we close out here, mr. cooper, is open it up and read this paragraph or you talk about her contributions to him. allen seth felt him a cold low. ellen had been his closest, wisest advisor. he exercised more influence over her than anyone else. he rarely let her severe depression affect him or her daughters. ellen had given him so much, and he was a far better man for her gifts. he had gone further and accomplished more in the world of scholarship, education, politics, and government than he could have without her, and he knew it. is it fair to say without ellen there might not have been a president woodrow wilson? >> absolutely. this man blossomed. he met her as he was about to depart for johns hopkins. he had been playing around with the law, trying to write, trying to find himself. it's extraordinary. it's amazing. any academic would love to have ellen pao off life. it really is extraordinary. >> we have quite a bit of detractors and some orders on our facebook age. nelson wilson's biggest -- ellen wilson's biggest contribution was getting him to the white house? >> absolutely. >> as she was dying, she tells the chief of staff to go to congress and says she will die more easily if they will pass a bill. the senate takes action before she loses consciousness for the last time. the bill passes later, but it is never implemented the close of world war i breaking out. they didn't have the money. in 1933 there was a young woman whose has and was involved in the ad in the stray shin. -- whose husband was involved in the administration. it was said nobody could move in a light society unless they could talk out. she made this fashionable. the first week eleanor roosevelt was in the white house, she went back to the federation, and she began to lobby for a bill. she lobbied for a great many different things, but i firmly believe ellen set an example for elinor, and ellen are set an example for many first ladies who came after her. >> there are so many questions to ask. one interesting debate on our facebook page is woodrow wilson's attitude towards african-americans. here was ellen wilson reaching out to the plight of poverty stricken african-americans in washington, d.c. did she influence woodrow wilson, and what allah sees were used on the race issue? -- what policies were used on the race issues? rex she was a southern woman, and i don't inc. you could say she believed in a quality of african impact -- i don't think you could say she believed in equality of african-americans. she was a wonderful woman, but i think she thought african- americans belonged in their place. she wanted to beautify washington, not just to be -- that's not just to be -- not just to be helpful. his own views -- i think his having grown up in the south really has less to do with his views there. the wilson administration record on race is bad, simply bad. he allowed his southern cabinet secretaries to attempt to introduce segregation to the federal work place. they made stabs at it. the newly formed naacp protested it. they backed off. they did it informally. that's bad. there's also that very unfortunate incident of showing the birth of a nation, the movie in the white house, which blew way out of proportion of what happened there. >> that's the time for edith. >> that is in his interregnum, shortly before he met edith. that's the worst time in wilson's life except for the stroke. because he was absolutely devastated by ellen's death. he was in bad, bad shape emotionally. >> when gary robinson asked on twitter, -- on twitter, did woodrow give -- get any political bump or political passes on bills or issues wasse of ellen's death, he thinking of the affairs of state or the month out there? >> he had to. yes, he was. that's what -- he said that's what held it together. he had do this, he had to be president. he had to pay attention to these things. otherwise, i think the man could have really deteriorated badly there. if he had just been on his own. the presidency is his crutch at this point. his attitude to me, he's like a white northerner. he wants the race go away. oh, yeah, that's the problem down to the south. booker t. washington, we'll make progress, a bit of benign neglect. wilson's much more like that. the southerners are obsessed by it. sinsn's sins were more of omission than comission. >> before we leave, we want to tell you we have a well populated website. www.c-span.org/firstladies. it's filled with all of the video and the programs we've done so far in the series. each week, we have a special feature attached to the first lady we're looking at. and this week, it's on ellen's artwork. so, if you go to the website and you want to learn more about her work, her easel, one of her paintings on display at the white house while she was there, this is the featured item this week on first lady, the c- span.org website. while i'm talking about research, i want to tell you about one other. our partners of this series, the white house historical association. they have for many years published the biography series -- or compendium of first ladies. it's a special version of it. we worked with them to publish it and make it available to you. that same website has the link. we are selling this hard cover book at $12.95, our cost, so you can learn about the women. there's a short biography and we'll get them to you so you can learn more about the women in the programs and the rest of the series. this is what it looks like on screen. as we look at it, we will listen to leighton in rome, george. -- georgia. is that her birthplace? >> and her burial place. >> hello, how are you? >> fine. >> i would like to say that rome, georgia is watching tonight. and, of course, we are the hometown of ellen wilson and we're very excited that you're doing a program tonight especially on ellen. christie miller has graciously accepted our invitation to come to rome as we celebrate not only the life but also the art of ellen wilson beginning in august of 2014. and you know, it's kind of interesting that in 1914, rome, georgia raised $10,000 in 2014, we'll mark the anniversary of the homecoming that never occurred. >> thank you very much. good to have folks in rome, georgia, watching tonight. any final thoughts on ellen before we move on? no? ok. so, let's do that. he was devastated. but we've talked about his connection with women and his love of having women in his life. he was a widowed president. so lots of women were probably interested in him. how did he approach this period of his life when he was a widower? >> i don't think there was a great rush of women to meet him. but his doctor was very concerned about it. and he thought that a friend of his is goal might be somebody edithriend of his, gault, might be somebody that might cheer him up. so he arranged for helen, the woman who was serving as his official hostess after ellen's death to go walking with edith because helen herself was having some health problems. he thought it would benefit her to go walking with this nice hearty 0-- nice, hearty, vigorous woman. they took a number of walks together. that led to a meeting in the white house between edith and woodrow. and they were immediately drawn to each other. just like with ellen. he very quickly fell in love and quickly proposed to her. >> edith bowling goff was found -- was from virginia. there's a map of virginia. you can see where it is in the southwest part of the state. about 300 miles way from washington, d.c. we visited there in preparation for the series. you'll see that next. >> this is the birthplace and childhood home of edith bowling wilson. today it looks very much like it did when the bowlings lived here from 1866 to 1899. originally, in the 1840s, this was two houses, they were joined together, which connected the upstairs bolling home, the downstairs was used as retail space. the upstairs was the home of the bollings. this is the original front door to the bolling home. this is where the bolling family would have entered. let me take you inside. this is the birth room. this was the bedroom of her parents. she was the 7th of 11 children born to the bollings and one of 20 family members who lived upstairs in the bolling home. two of the most interesting pieces we have are the bolling cradle, the cradle that the children would have slept in. the other piece is a child's chair that was up here in the bolling home. we can imagine the children sitting in the chairs. the cover is original and we're so pleased it hasn't been re-covered over the years. this is the bedroom of grandmother bolling. and we know that edith bolling, as a little girl, slept in the room with her grandmother. her grandmother was an invalid and had back problems. and she was quite spoiled by her grandmother. she was her grandmother's favorite. but along with that came the responsibility of being her care giver. this is the back sleeping porch. this is where edith would gather with her family where they would enjoy evenings together. i think one of my favorite pictures is the picture of young edith at age 13. she's actually sitting on a stool in this corner, she has her books in her lap and very -- and we are very fortunate to have this picture of her. we see what she's dressed like, we see her books, we see how her hair is fixed. we see her in a place where she was very comfortable and spent a lot of time as a young girl. this is the library of her father, judge bolling. they sent her to washington, d.c. to keep her away from a gentleman who was courting her. they sent her to her sister in washington, d.c. she met and married her first husband. it really changed her life. >> we learn more about the life of edith bolling wilson. on facebook, a question -- what did his daughter who served as hostess before the marriage think of his new wife and what did his other daughters think. i think the daughters were very -- >> i think the daughters were very happy to see their father married again. because as john said, he was in deep despair. they were very worried about him. they were happy. they were among the happiest people in washington about the marriage. >> what about the press? what about his cabinet? >> they tried to keep it out of press as long as they could. -- the press as long as they could. the reactions were mixed. we're getting the beyond the old victorian convention that widowed people shouldn't marry. -- remarry. well, they shouldn't remarry soon. there is the old phrase "a decent interval of time." how do you define that? the longer, the better. and clearly for the president to be courting and want to marry again so quickly, a lot of them worried about it. several of them tried to hatch something to warn him off there. that backfired very badly. by the way, edith took an instant dislike to colonel house, this advisor of wilson's. and wilson patched it up or had them get together. but i don't think house realized what an enemy he made of edith wilson. he had something to do with this, too. >> let's take a call from carl in carrollton, georgia. hi, carl. >> good evening. thank you for taking my call. i heard the gentleman say there was a bit of dissension between colonel house and edith. was this personal differences, colonel house had live-in quarters in the white house. was he commanding too much of the president's time as far as edith was concerned or were there political differences? >> well, actually house did not have living quarters in the white house. he spent a lot of time there. but he didn't have living quarters there. it's a bit of both. edith as christie pointed out very well, wilson courted the widow galt with the presidency and the secrets of state and she ate it up. there's no question about it. and she admits -- frankly admits in her memoir later that this was a good bit of her attraction to wilson. and attracted to him too personally. this made him a more glamorous figure to her. so she's ok, she's going to be the advisor. a lot of it at the beginning is to resent house. resent house. there's just enough to get him out of the way. house was concerned -- house saw wilson as a very valuable property to manage and to keep, you know, to keep healthy and to keep in power. and i think he was worried about the effect on this. now, he very quickly backed off when he saw how determined wilson was to marry edith. he turned tail very quickly and then he tries to make up to her a lot. but she never -- no, she never -- she masked her dislike of house up until the time of the peace -- the peace conference. >> so he proposes very soon after. she says no, saying you hardly know me. there's a wonderful quote that most biographers refer to talking about how time is compressed in the white house. what did he say? >> i don't remember the exact words. but he said time is much quicker here than it was on the outside. i hesitate to call it a ploy. that he pointed out to all three of the women he was involved with was that he needed them so much. and it was a real genuine need as john has pointed out. he often said he couldn't do his work unless he was assured of their love. so that was definitely one of the things that she said to edith. and she responded. to know you have need of me is very sweet. that was a successful courtship tactic. although she refused him the first time, two months later, he proposed again and she accepted. >> as i recall, the refusal, that's what they're supposed to -- what women were supposed to do the first time, anyway? >> ellen didn't refuse. >> she got taken unawares really. that was the convention. >> i think it was. >> turn it down and, you know, of course the guy comes back and -- >> she had every right to turn him down convention or no convention. they've known each other about six weeks when he proposed the first time. >> i must say, we both read all of that correspondence there. i'm impressed that edith's refusal looked to be pretty pro forma. it was clear she's going to accept this guy. >> one of my favorite quotes is from the secret serviceman, colonel starling, who said the lady was retreating. but how fast and with what intention, we don't know. >> he would go over to her house, you know, he would spend the evening there. and he would sometimes break into a dance coming back to the white house. m a time to take the president of today, -- presidentto take the of today, imagine him going to a woman's house -- a fanaticism about baseball in this town, the first public date was a baseball game. >> wilson was a great baseball fan. he played -- never played on a college -- he played on a college team at davidson. the first college he went to. that's something. he's a great fan of princeton and wesleyan and princeton, he's a tremendous baseball fan. go to that and that is the first public appearance together. her just beaming there. i think that is when she turns into a political asset. >> we have to move on, the time is going to evaporate. very quickly. on twitter, what did the general population think of wilson remarrying so quickly? >> fortunately, not as his advisors feared. the public loved it. they went on a tour about six weeks after they were married. to drum up interest and preparedness in case america got in the war. she was seen as a great asset. the press loved her. the crowds loved her. they loved the idea of the two of them being on their honeymoon. it was a great public relations. >> throughout this program, we have been taking you to the wilson house, the place where the first couple lived after they left the white house. we're going to return there right now. >> we're currently in the dining room of the president wood row -- woodrow wilson house in -- woodrow wilson house in northwest d.c., about a mile from the white house. standing guard over the dining room is an official portrait of edith wilson painted and finished in 1920. 93 years old. bob inholm is the executive director of the house. what can you tell us about this dress she's wearing in this portrait? >> president wilson in his second term presented a vision of the world of peace, a plan in this provision. he couldn't have found a better help mate, dynamic and strong, edith wilson. i think in this portrait you see this is not a 19th century portrait. she's wearing a dress that's fashion forward in the 1920s. at her waist is a broach, a gift to her from france. that was from the pairs -- paris peace conference in 1919. >> some of the other artifacts from the white house years set here at the table. you have the place setting? >> this is the wilson china. edith had a hand in designing this. so while some of the 19th century china relied on designs, -- on botanical designs, this has patriotic symbols consistent with the nation at war. there's a funny story. the historians can tell about this. when edith was learning how to ride a bicycle in the basement of the white house, the china was stacked there. one of the reasons they created the china room was so she would have room to ride the bicycle without crashing into the china. >> this is lennox. you have an outfit she wore as first lady. >> we remember president wilson was the first president to go to europe as president but we need to remember as well edith wilson was the first lady to go to europe as the first lady. it was important for her to figure out how she should comport herself in meeting kings and queens of europe and heads of state. she bought this suit at the house of worth in paris. let me pull this back and show some of the detail. the lining is really spectacular. it gives you some sense of the level of detail and attention of the clothing that she purchased there. >> bob inholm, president wilson lived here three years after she left the white house. was there a purposeful effort to make this house like the white house? >> very much so. that's part of edith's doing as well. she realized the president would be more comfortable in a settle in which he understand where things were. so when they put together this bedroom here, it emulated the white house bedroom he'd been in down to the detail of getting the lincoln bed that he had enjoyed and building a replica of the room here. -- building a replica of it for the room here. >> the next time you come back to us, susan will be in the library. >> thank you very much. a reminder, the wilson house is available for public tour. make it part of yourself when you do a history tour of washington, d.c. the wilson presidency, the two terms were very momentous years. for the country and for the world. it's hard to boil down important things that went on in a couple of pages but we're going try to do it. in the wilson presidency, the 17th amendment to the constitution which called for direct election for the senators was passed. major tariff bill that was so much an important debate in this country, the federal reserve act, i can tell you our facebook community is talking a lot about the federal reserve. the role of the federal trade commission. its function was also created. then the war. the u.s. declaring war on germany after the sinking of the lusitania. after the war, woodrow wilson winning the nobel peace prize. the 18th amendment bringing prohibition. the 19th amendment calling finally for women suffrage in this country. what was edith's role in this important period of time, legislateively, public affairswise? how involved was she in the substance of what he was doing? >> very little. she didn't have ellen's acumen for understanding these things. he liked to show her the papers but mostly she would get fired up and would say you need to put this note to germany more strongly or put this note to the secretary of state william jennings bryant to be stronger. he encouraged her to be fiery. she didn't have understanding. a lot of people thought she had influenced him to lobby as he finally did for woman's suffrage. that wasn't the case at all. she didn't approve. so i wouldn't say she had any effect on his legislative -- >> he did not support the 18th amendment. he did not like prohibition. he vetoed the act which passed -- the implementation legislation, which was then passed over his veto. >> how difficult was it for him to make a decision to bring the u.s. into world war i? >> very, very. we went to war after the sinking of the lusitania, almost two years after. is a great wake-up call on how we might be involved in the war. it's not comparable to pearl harbor and 9/11. it was this shocking event. two years to struggle to try to get the germans not to sink ships and kill people on the seas. yet, not to get involved in the war. he got the germans to back down for a while. so the election of 1916 in the -- was during this lull in foreign affairs, and this notion he kept us out of war was this great cry. well, yeah. but it was -- he kept us out of war with mexico because the threat of war in europe had receded at that point. then the germans reopened and it -- reopened submarine where fair -- warfare and he met with a very difficult struggle. he actually unburdened himself confidentially to a newspaper editor, frank cobb of the new york world. and he predicted all of the terrible consequences that would happen in this country if we went to the war. it's the most eloquent case of -- case going against going to war from the man who decided to take us there. >> how would you answer sheldon cooper when asked which wife provided political clout for woodrow? >> i think it was ellen. ellen was involved. she lobbied. you spoke with the tariff bill. she read it. she lobbied for having reduced duty on books and art supplies. and when it was actually passed, she celebrated. it meant a lot to her. and i don't think either of them had a great deal to do with it. but i think ellen had more than edith. >> david is in her hometown. nice to have you on the line. >> thank you for the segment. your viewers to visit and join us in our efforts to restore her -- in our efforts to restore her birthplace and childhood home. but my question is when mrs. wilson visited during europe, how was she received by the royalty of europe and how can you tell us about her relationship to pocahontas and other families? >> she's a direct descendent to pocahontas. it was played up a great deal by newspapers even by the newspapers in europe when she went over there. i forgot, what was the other part of the question? >> how she was received in europe? >> they were received joyously when they went over there. they looked to wilson to be a savior. edith wrote home and said they -- she felt like cinderella. they stayed at buckingham palace. they were received by the king of italy. there were thousands and thousands of people reading them in paris. it was a magical time for her. >> here's a question of a similar ilk, between edith and ellen, which has the greatest influence on america today? >> i'd say ellen, although edith had the handle the country in -- had to handle the country in this crisis of presidential disability. and i think she set a pattern of how not do it. it was a cover-up. it was one of the segments that edith'sgrayson said, on orders, we're not going to admit he had a stroke. they never -- the white house never admitted that, one of his consulting physicians let it slip out of the bag later. but they never admitted that. and in some ways this uncertainty about -- about what the president's condition was really contributed to the political downfall that comes. >> justin, plainfield, indiana, you're on. go ahead. >> hi, thank you for taking my call. thank you for doing this. my question is, how was edith received in the time leading up to her marriage to president wilson by the media? did she kind of get the princess diana reception or more from -- of the rachael jackson reception? >> thanks so much. >> they really, as john said, tried to keep it very quiet. and the announcement was made at the beginning of october. they got married in the middle of december. so they really only had to endure the -- the attention of the press for about two months. and again it was a very, very different time and nobody was expected to get out there diana style and be fodder for the press. style and be fodder for the press. >> wouldn't you say there was a little bit of scandal -- the caller talked about rachael jackson. there was an undercurrent of a little bit of scandal or whatever that he was involved in this woman. >> there were several scandals, one of which and we haven't really addressed it. but woodrow wilson was involved with another woman during the time he was married to ellen. he met mary allen holbert peck in 1907. by 1908, he had scribbled on a little note somewhere. my precious one, my beloved mary. i don't think he sent it to her. i think he was venting her -- his feelings. ellen was upset. she accused him of emotional love for this woman. but she tolerated mary and tried to protect woodrow from the scandal. theodore roosevelt was invited in the 1912 election to make use of this. somebody said that they had letters between woodrow and mary. and although they were never as ardent as his letters to ellen had been, they were simply -- certainly compromising. and roosevelt said, no, that would be wrong. and also that nobody would believe him. >> yeah. because that was -- that was very noble of theodore roosevelt. but you said -- you said, what -- i can't believe that somebody who looks like the bethecary's clud could romeo. i don't believe that. >> doing his best t.r. impersonation. what happens in the white house in terms of their social, they're entertaining. what does she do to support the war effort. that's an important part of her story. would you talk about that? >> poor edith gets pitched into the white house in the middle of the war, in the middle of his term without any preparation whatsoever. and she was -- she really rose to the occasion. and she was, as i said, very pop -- popular with the press. because of ellen's ill health, the press had not been very taken with her. and edith had the doubly trying situation of having to have two receptions because she couldn't have all of the warring ambassadors with each other. so she had to have a party for the outlies and the party for a party for and the central powers. she really was terrific and everybody was impressed with her good firm hand shake. and very impressed with her sense of style, no poor little brown dress for edith. >> she was a wealthy washington socialite and a business executive. >> i wouldn't say she was a socialite. her husband had been in trade, meaning he was a businessman. and that was not the creme de la creme of washington society. so there was a certain amount of dubiousness about that. but as john said, there were scandals also to the extent to which she and woodrow had been intimate. later on she makes a big protest, a big international scandal, really, out of refusing to accept the designated british ambassador because the assistant was telling naughty stories about him. >> back to the wilson house on s street in washington, d.c. >> we are in the library at the wilson house with bob inholm, the executive director. you can see some of the artifacts in this room from the wilson's. there are a couple of things in here that are very related to edith and woodrow wilson. why don't you tell us what this is on the desk. >> we display the pen that was used to sign the declaration of war in 1917. what i think is interesting is that it's edith wilson's pen. we've been discussing on the program that it was very much with the president participated in his deliberations on a variety of issues. when the declaration of war was passed by congress, the when the declaration of war was made, use the pen of edith. she offered one of hers to sign that document. we have that here. it is also known that edith was part of the president's regular routine in dealing with policy issues and the business of government. everyday after dinner, they would retire to the office within the white house, the president's office, and go through what he called his drawer, what you might think of as his inbox. you have a box like it here. this is a box that has a lock and key so the president's important papers could be delivered to him. the president and mrs. wilson would go through these papers together. it was her habit to put them in order while he was reviewing one. she would be reviewing the other. they would decipher together coded messages. i think it is interesting that this lays the groundwork for her role later as steward of the presidency and the president was disabled. our guests on the set have been talking about edith and alan wilson. what do you think of the legacy of edith wilson? what is the legacy of edith wilson? >> i think the most important thing that edith wilson did was to bring the role of the first lady into the modern era in the sense that she supported the president and was aware of some of the issues that he was involved with. my take on her role and stewardship is a little different from some. theink her authority within government relied almost entirely on the president's affection for her, trust for her, respect for her. you would not expect that she would betray that trust in order to go to the cabinet or go to the vice president or someone else. i think she had that important role of being a helper to the president in a very modern way. >> we are at the wilson house in northwest d.c. this is where edith wilson lived post-presidency until 1960 when one she died in this house. we've got one more visit here. it is kind of a special guest we are going to introduce you to in a little while. host: thanks, for bringing us into the wilson house tonight and showing some of it to our viewing public. we should say that when woodrow wilson makes a decision to go into the war, he goes all in. america about what could really contribute was manpower. guest: it was a stalemate. although russia collapsed. the bolsheviks, when they came lennon's policy was peace at any price. he paid a terrible price. this sense that the germans could finally fight the battle they wanted to fight, the war they wanted to fight, the franco-prussian war against the they could throw everything at france -- this is what they had the chance to do in the spring of 1918. it is a race against time for us to get the doughboys there. the british and the french, bless their hearts, held on and blocked the german offensive. but they were able to do it because they knew the yanks were coming. material and money, it really bail them out. the allies were bankrupt. they were bankrupt by that time. we were able to bail them out. host: we provided the doughboys, the foot soldiers, and the dough. how many casualties, american casualties, in the war? guest: about 140,000. november 11, 1918. host: then wilson moves from war president to peacemaker? guest: peacemaker in chief. he decided very early he was going to paris and was going to be our chief negotiator. he wanted to shape the piece as best he could. he knew we had come into the war later than the others and for different reasons. he knew there were real differences. host: edith travels with them on that trip. i want to take a call on that, and i wanted to come back and talk to us about what her role was and how important ultimately it was to the piece that was shipped. lewis in los angeles, you are on the air. waser: my question is, what or how was the league of nations -- was it a triumph for the president or a failure to president wilson, and how did mrs. wilson take it? she lasted little bit longer than president wilson. how was it on their legacy? thank you. well, it is both. it is both a triumph and a failure. the fact that there was a league of nations at all was because of wilson. he was able to take the situation in paris, he was able to whip it together, get this put together in an astonishingly short period of time. it was terrific. his failure was to not get the senate to consent to it, this terrible stalemate, and eventually we never joined the league of nations. that is what happened. ii, there is a posthumous apotheosis of woodrow prohphet were is the did not heated. if we have listened to him, we would not have had this terrible second more. , think that is quite overdrawn but there is truth to that. it is hard to imagine that we would not have played at least some kind of more constructive role in world affairs if we had gone into the league of nations. after would was, rose death, very active with the league of nations herself. not in a leadership way, but she used to go to geneva every year for her -- for their meetings. she would go to any country in the league that wanted to honor woodrow for his work. it iswe will note that united nations week as we do this. all the world leaders will be gathering in new york city. guest: if it had not been for edith, and ed -- and if woodrow had designed it, we would have joined the league. guest: he should have left. he should not have continued as president. he simply was not functioning. --in, this warped adjustment judgment of his, that we would not compromise -- if he had resigned, some kind of something to get him out of the way, we would have joined the league. we would have joined it on a very conditional basis with lots of hedging, but frankly, that simply would have been more openly stating what all the other nations were doing anyways. it would have gotten us into a leadership role in world affairs a generation before we did. i think that was what was lost. host: we hope you saw the beginning of our program. it was edith wilson who made a critical decision with the advice of his doctors to keep him in the white house and to serve as the gatekeeper to him and keep the affairs of the state going during those years when he was very critically ill. guest: i don't think it was with the doctors' consent. not a bit. memo that, he wrote a should he be subpoenaed to congress, he wanted to have something on paper early on -- sayingt he did not exactly what was wrong with the president. host: in her memoirs, i have read several citations were doctors -- of course she did. i have said to you that those memoirs were quite fanciful. guest: edward feinstein, a very distinguished neurologist, wrote a medical biography of wilson. he said in there, he takes it straight on -- the doctors said, no, keep him in office. he said no responsible physician would have said that. she was making that up. host: so, i asked about their as the greate peacemaker. they traveled by ocean liner to get there on a very specific day in december. was -- how were they received by the other heads of state? received,y were especially in england, on terms that would have been accorded to royalty. everywhere they went, they were cheered by the populace. in the beginning, it was wonderful, but once the negotiations got underway, edith suddenly went from this very beingxistence to extremely concerned for wilson's high blood pressure. episodead some kind of when he was only 39 years old where he had a lot of numbness in his hands. he had very high blood pressure all his adult life or at least from the age of 39 onwards. very grayson had been insistent during that time he was president that he needed a lot of exercise and a lot of rest. heing those negotiations, could not either rest or exercise. edith was trying her best to get him to go for a walk. the woman who was with her, her secretary, said that she herself would never go out if there was a possibility that she might be able to take woodrow for a walk. it was not enough. host: when he came back, he embarked on a multi city tour of the united states to try to sell the conflict -- sell the idea of the league of nations to the people of the you -- of the united states. left inonly 50 minutes our program. we are going to have to compress a lot of history in that time. we will return to the wilson house and introduce you to a member of the family. this is carrie fuller from westchester, new york. what is your relationship to edith wilson? >> edith was my great aunt. >> how much time did you spend in the wilson house growing up? >> a lot of time, really. coming over to visit with my great aunt, my grandfather, my great uncle, all of whom edith took care of here. >> there are only about three relatives of edith wilson still alive. >> yes. >> what was it like to get -- to visit with aunt edith? >> it was called playing cards. [laughter] she came over, we would have a good meal, played cards, prompted by my mother to let her win every once in a while. she was a fierce person in terms of winning. >> canasta? >> canasta was the game. that was easy to let her win. >> there is a deck of cards here. is this the card box that you would use? >> the cards were always on the table. the table was over here. >> in the library. did she ever talk about being first lady, what it was like? >> no, it was very interesting. she very rarely refer to the past. if she did, she would refer to as the woodrow wilson president, but there were no past memories really. it was interesting. >> were there any special visitors while you were here? >> no, not while i was here. it was really family. she loved her family so much. she spent a lot of time with them. the post- the house, presidency house, she would also taken family, correct? grandfather, her brother, and my sister all died here in the house. >> did she ever talk about ellen? >> never. that would not have come up. seeing ln wilson's picture in the house is sort of funny. it was just not a part of what we would have discussed. >> what about jackie kennedy? >> i was close to jackie kennedy . i was not here. i was waiting to pick them up afterwards. >> that is when she was first lady? >> she was first lady. edith, she was so excited about john kennedy moving to the presidency. carrie fuller, we are here on the main level of the house. up one staircase from the entrance. where would you sleep when you are visiting here? >> upstairs. only twice did i stay here for the night. there is a little room in between her room and the president's room. was just two occasions. >> three of you left. are you active in and eat it will send -- an edith wilson family? >> not so much with the family, but definitely with the wilson house and also the birthplace. i'm involved with both of those, which is wonderful. cary fuller is with us at the wealth -- at the wilson house in upper northwest d.c. we want to thank the staff for allowing us to come in with the cameras and showing you a few the artifacts in the house. host: she made it to john kennedy's inauguration? >> yes, and she made it through 1961. she was supposed to dedicate the woodrow wilson bridge that all of us who live in washington know well. [laughter] she was going to dedicate it on his 105th birthday, december 20, 1961. at 89, she contracted pneumonia. she could not make it. she died on his birthday. host: the woodrow center, which is so active in this town, when did that it started? guest: that got started in the 1960s -- actually, i think it was authorized under kennedy. guest: he authorized the commission. guest: right. -- the gets started first director was the late 1960s, a rich old smithsonian building. , oddlyow part of the enough, the reagan building. [laughter] i think that is a very fitting memorial to wilson. it really does bring together scholars and policymakers. wilson was no ivory tower intellectual. he really believed that scholarship, that learning should be brought to bear in public affairs. that was himself. this man took the lessons that he had learned, the insights he had gotten from the study of politics, and put them into practice. this is a man who really got a chance to practice what he had been preaching all along. i have said this a number of time, and people think it is hyperbole, but i do not know of any other career in american history or in any other history i can think of that better justifies the study of politics as a preparation for the practice of politics than woodrow wilson's. host: john in virginia, you are on the air. caller: yes, i would like to make a comment. is anoman, edith wilson, appalachian woman, the first and only appalachian woman to become first lady. i wonder if the experts would be interested in commenting on her appalachian role as caregiver and the fact that she was a caregiver for the president and on into his legacy. really, she might be responsible the emulation and legacy that president wilson has. i don't know that being an appalachian woman made her stand out at that time in america. , to a certain degree still today, are the principal caregivers of family members. also came from rome, georgia, which i think might technically be called appalachia also. she was very interested in the appalachian mountain craft. she remodeled part of the white house, the president's room, with quilts and hangings and fabrics. she had set up a scholarship fund there in memory of her brother with the earnings she got from her paintings. i kind of feel she was the one who focused more on the appalachian nature or character event edith did. host: as we finish up, i really want to frame her life. she met woodrow wilson shortly after ellen died. he proposed very soon. she became first lady very quickly, without much preparation for the role. how soon after that did he become ill, and how long did she take care of him? she was first lady to a functioning president about four and a half years, and she was nursemaid to a president another four and a half years. host: then he lived for how long incapacitated after the white house? guest: that would include the time -- guest: just under three years. host: he died when? guest: february 4, 1924. host: how is he memorialized at his death? -- it is really quite lovely. coolidgeesident offered the capital to have a state funeral. she declined. they had a service at the house, presided over by both the presbyterian clergymen and the washington bishop. edith was episcopalian. she did not change to be a presbyterian when she married him, and he made no push for her to do that. then there is a procession of massachusetts avenue to the cathedral. or is the internment there. in those days, there was not too much to the cathedral. his tomb, his crypt was moved up and it in the centennial year of his birth, 1956, up to the finished principal part of the cathedral. it is a lovely ceremony. to me, one of the nicest touches when the funeral was at the end of its service, a bugler "taps," and they had a hookup to arlington so they knew the exact moment so the bugler at arlington also played the song. host: she lived how long after he died? guest: something like 37 years. it was an extraordinarily long time. he died in 1924. she died at the end of 1961. host: what was her lifelike? she spent the rest of her life being woodrow wilson's widow. chose his first biographer. she controlled access to his papers very closely. she controlled how his image was portrayed. she wrote her own memoir. with her own spin on it. she collaborated with darrell's zenick, who made a movie about him. to me, the most important thing that she did, she supported something that he had supported during his lifetime, the woodrow wilson commission. guest: foundation. guest: foundation. they helped create the united nations. they also collect these papers so there are 69 volumes of woodrow wilson's letters and other significant papers. many letters from the first lady, even letters from mary p eck. some videos with film of frances cleveland and edith at princeton university. can you tell us that story? guest: i don't know that story. the bicentennial of princeton, 200 years. they gathered all the living first ladies together. mrs. cleveland, who was much younger than grover cleveland, was there. edith was there. that's truman. i don't know if eleanor roosevelt was there. there is a picture of president truman with these three first ladies. guest: i know that alan wilson had to entertain theodore roosevelt at an army-navy game when woodrow was president of princeton. she did contact frances cleveland for advice on how to entertain ex-presidents. host: did she go back to the white house? edith? guest: i don't know. guest: with the kennedys, yes. guest: i assume. probably with the roosevelts. one thing that i thought was very interesting was that when fdr went to congress on december 8, the day after the bombing at he invited edith wilson to come and sit in the gallery as she had set in the gallery when woodrow wilson called for war in the first world war. dan, omaha, nebraska, your question? coveringhen edith was the role, was she investigated for that, or was she committing a crime by doing this? guest: i don't know there was a crime. i think it was a big mistake. no, there was no congressional investigation. sending senators up to check on him, that is about as far as they got with it. as we close out, james wants to know about edith wilson's funeral in 1961. what was that like? guest: i have no idea. guest: it was a quiet funeral. she was buried with him in the cathedral. host: we often talk about firsts. they were the first and only presidential couple to be buried in the national cathedral in washington dc -- and washington, d.c. those of you fortunate enough to go in -- go to europe, they try to emulate that. book -- ise of your want to show christie miller on ellen wilson and -- i;m going to open it as i did the last time,. edith wilson undeniably had an impact on history. she took over after woodrow wilson stroke, enabling him to stay in office. if he had resigned, the united nations probably would have joined the league of nations. regarding us of whether edith wilson had an effect on international relations, or actions changed american constitutional law. her ascension to power during what -- during woodrow wilson's office -- illness -- this is the partner wanted to go to. edith wilson did not use the power of the presidential spouse as constructively as she might have. she made no effort to model better relations between the races. she might have encouraged her husband's racism. her personal style, however, did drow'sp would rose -- woo image in the public eye. so what should we think about edith wilson's tenure in the white house? guest: i think as john suggested, unfortunately, her biggest contribution is what not to do. 1987, williams safire was writing to nancy reagan, writing a column that said to nancy reagan, ubl -- don't you be and edith wilson -- a an edith wilson. i'm afraid that is her greatest legacy as first lady. host: what an interesting story. thank you so much for being here. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] ♪ nextan watch c-span's episode of "first ladies: " on mondaynd image when we will look at the life of florence harding. in 1920 was the first presidential election in which women could vote. after her husband won, she reportedly asked him, well, warren harding, i got the presidency. now what are you going to do? the campaign had scandals too. theirst lady, she ordered white house open to the public, and after her husband's death in office, she was left to deal with revelations of corruption. meet political power broker and former first lady florence harding on "first ladies: influence and image" on monday on c-span and c-span 3. we are offering a special edition of the book "first ladies of the united states of america," with a biography portrait of each first lady, comments from noted historians, and thoughts from michelle obama on the role of first ladies. it is available for $12.95 less shipping at c-span.org/products. read more about the first ladies on our website, including a special section produced by our partner the white house a struggle association, chronicling life in the executive mansion during the tenure of each of the first ladies. th is alat c-span.org/first ladies. >> the book tells a story. it tells the story of a nuclear in damascus,ent arkansas that occurred in 1980. i use that story, that narrative, as a way of looking at the management of our nuclear weapons since the first nuclear device was invented in 1945 read -- in 1945. i hope to remind readers that these weapons are out there, that they are still capable of being used. there is probably no more important thing that our government does than manage them. these are the most dangerous machines ever built. subject has fallen off the radar quite a bit since the end of the cold war. >> words you do not want to hear together -- nuclear weapons and accidental detonation. investigative journalist eric controlr on command and tonight on "afterwords." >> today on "newsmakers" we have ernest moniz. two reporters to help us with questions. we have dina capiello, the national energy environment reporter for the "associated press," and coral davenport, an environmental reporter for "the national journal." >> on friday the intergovernmental panel on climate change came out with its newest report on the state of climate science. the scientists said they have maybe five percent certainty that human activities are contributing to global warming. they focused on this 15 year pause in the rate of global warning which is something that has got lots of attention from skeptics.
telling people to get to higher ground orchard reception centers. the quake was very shallow on the twenty km below the seabed and struck less than a hundred km northwest of the mining port of icky cake. b the peruvian border according to ex pats the quakes trend has the potential to generate a destructive tsunami that can strike amid the epicenter within minutes. a more distant coastlines within hours. the chilean navy reported the first tsunami wave hit the coast within forty five minutes of the quake. it measures just under two beaches tuition was costly hampered by landslides which are said to all. some roads airports in the area have been closed but the authorities have reported no extensive structural damage. let's also went after the constant through ecuador colombia panama and costa rica and the correct us. it was the last major earthquake to strike. cheney was in twenty ten an inkling taking mike mckay triggered the tsunami which caused major damage in several coastal towns and killed more compliant hundred people it seems that a mortal sin from okinawa the weekend go the cover. chile's president michelle partially declared a state of emergency in three regions around the quake disaster zone on wednesday promising troops police reinforcements to maintain order. addressing the nation she praised the authorities initial response to the tremor. they examined the tsunami alert was promptly put in place in the store and ordered evacuation with people comply in may. the country has come to the fest as of this emergency email and any chance. in the cia over delight to watch the people who live in the affected regions to keep calm. follow the instructions of the authorities and to do everything necessary for the safety of the people on their family is here. then cia director son he did for me. it's great to bolster security seen as an attempt to prevent a mass bleaching which took place during previous national emergencies nature says is suspending minute incident in cooperation with russia at this annexation of ukraine's crimean region. it is also bored admitted he promised to boost defence isn't michelin of this eastern european countries. the tough response comes as foreign ministers of the twenty eight nation alliance met for the first time since russia's intervention in crimea to get the west east west since the poll will. russia's aggression against ukraine he said greatest strengths. add to your team security in a generation. and the challenges our nation all your up for free and peace. ministers are also questioning moscow's plan to withdraw troops from near the ukrainian border together we are rejected any notion that there is any legality. in russia's efforts to annex crimea. unchallenged we of all child. the tactics of intimidation. particularly the deployment of unprecedented amounts of military forces around ukraine's borders the us and its allies and often small planes to take part in making the nation patrol says the baltic states which were once a view to publix washington is also looking at bolstering its educating exercise dependent but despite the uncompromising stance in a tasty cents it cost to fund that was the political and diplomatic one. police in athens and to be tweaked a cast to prevent the splinter group of left wing protests after munching on a meeting of eu finance ministers the discovery she's broken up towards the end of a remedy against war demonstrators called troy kill orchestrated austerity the purity of peaceful protests came as europe and the distance that greece would soon stop receiving its next they dealt instalment of women and the one thing to recognize the spirit at heart that this protest is having none of it. the eu and the troika policies are driving creek people mad he says what is right or abolished pay and pensions the traffic the cops we wouldn't accept it. we distributed in three props for the first six billion euros page at the end of april. the trouble to our correspondent in athens says up to four years of austerity creases international economic profile is improving cost of this by no means to the could attest as workers and pensioners have suffered a dramatic drop in the rain comes and the standard of living. there's still much is given. thousands of turks took to the streets of anchor on tuesday to demand a partial recount in the open sections as i have officially given a decisive victory to prime minister issued a tiny bit of the ones reading justice and development party the ak. reich police fired water cannon to disperse crowds who gathered in front of the country's supreme electoral council the election was a major disappointment for the opposition republican people's party chp despite an increase in support their leader has said that they'll challenge the results in the capital and other areas weekends have reportedly begun in several districts meanwhile a villain celebrated his party's victory in front of an arch credit supporters never need to have held onto power in both the istanbul and ankara despite accusations of corruption crackdown on internet access. turkey's electoral council has said that the final result will not be in and snuggle all claims of irregularities or results. palestinian authority president mahmoud abbas has said that he would seek for the united nations recognition in an unexpected move that put the rail us brokered peace talks with israel. he signed applications by the state of palestine who joined several un agencies and ratify international treaties speaking in the west bank the blast said he had been promised an awning times about a fourth batch of prisoners would be released he added that he was the latest promise of the israeli government convening to improve that however it didn't happen the pool. as part of a deal with israel last have promised to suspend tissue and fees in exchange for the release of one hundred and four a veteran palestinian prisoners in four stages. it's red the officials have said they are reluctant to proceed unless the palestinians commit to extending told to pass to the end of april deadline agreed to after a push by the us at the tree of state john kerry. he said it was too wordy to draw conclusions about the prospect in peace talks between both sites despite the difficulties. french president also called has informed the intimidation of the central african republic to the eu peacekeeping force is not ready to be deployed in a couple country the cast as summer comes i welcome the new soul to express the frustration of pro tools which had delayed to mention some of the supergroup what we received many promises and we have confidence in the commitment to make them popular is that it's just that that would precede his wish to be followed by simply asking the international community. given the fragility of the situation in central african republic issued by these rules and we cannot succeed in a spat on the pacific are a normal country it but the country in crisis that began coming to the homeland if any penalties the eu force of one thousand soldiers will bolster the six thousand african and two thousand french troops already dead. the foreign intervention is fed to stop the company which interrupted optimism so that the rebels seized power unit and the majority christian state mm you. chiefs. i fulfilled in order for looking good company but i'm still receive the full amount of pain voice omg one thousand seven hundred and fifty euro was what i do to attain this to be all that but he is refusing all communication in small claims procedure of both consumers and small businesses. in the spring edition. login and gains of up to ten thousand euro rose partly as a note written to the procedures than fifteen hundred of the eu countries this procedure is receiving care in our entire human rights thompson then go online you know languages you can submit your game. i post or e mail and the need to travel to another country to start the procedure human failing. a forum for me that's the important documents or just received invites this adventure. this four per cent of the coronet has the jurisdiction yesterday the court that the reason is that the defendant. the contract also according to a sled contract should have been carried out. rejoice with me and forget. i seem to be stationed along the corridor forms the defendant the defendant has a thirty eight through july. what happens on the thirty eighth to keep things in order to find the thing like being on time. for it cause the heart the story or here. i need your conference. no need to be represented by lawyer king and dean forest in any eu country. and just send a copy of the decision to deport foreign to me in the country concerned. you are fine. for the information about the procedure. even just the sport doll. if you'd like to ask a question go to the union's website or visit our social media pages. i do and ch. at least fourteen dead after an eight point two magnitude earthquake struck off each of these north west coast triggering a tsunami left alone will look fab in central america's pacific coast line. the authorities immediately ordered a mass evacuation of oil. larry is telling people to get to higher ground orchard reception centers. the quake was very shallow on the twenty km below the seabed and struck less than a hundred km northwest of the mining course of icky cake. b the peruvian border according to ex pats the courts trend has the potential to generate a destructive tsunami that can strike land near the epicenter within minutes a more distant coastlines within hours. the chilean navy reported the first tsunami wave hit the coast within forty five minutes off the quake hit nation. justin did to me tears the evacuation was hard to be hampered by low rates which is said to call some roads airports in the area have been closed but the authorities have reported no extensive structural damage. let's also went after the coast of peru ecuador colombia panama and costa rica and the correct us you the last major earthquake to strike. cheney was in twenty ten am i going to a team mike mckay triggered the tsunami which caused major damage in several coastal towns and killed more compliant hundred people being stupid and will post them soon i'll be getting him go. heat the butter. chile's president michelle bachelet declared a state of emergency in three regions around the quake disaster zone on wednesday promising troops. i'm police reinforcements to maintain order. addressing the nation she praised the authorities initial response to the tremor. it hangs in a tsunami alert was promptly put in place in the store and ordered evacuation of people complained immediately. in a country house current status of its emergency email in an image can see an atc that i would like to watch the people who live in the affected regions to keep calm. follow the instructions of the authorities and to do everything necessary for the safety of the people on their family is here. then cia director son he did for me. it's great to bolster security seen as an attempt to prevent the mass bleaching which took place during previous national emergencies nature says is suspending minute incident in cooperation with russia as this annexation of ukraine's crimean region. it is also bored admitted he promised to boost defence isn't michelin of this eastern european countries. the tough response comes as foreign ministers of the twenty eight nation alliance met for the first time since russia's intervention in crimea to get the west east west crisis since the cold war rust is aggression against ukraine is the greatest threats. add to your pc qt in a generation and the challenges our nation. all your own color free and at peace. ministers are also questioning moscow's plan to withdraw troops from near the ukrainian border together we are rejected any notion that there is any legality. in russia's efforts to annex crimea. unchallenged we of all child. the tactics of intimidation. particularly the deployment of unprecedented amounts of military forces around ukraine's borders the us and its allies and often small planes to take part in making the nascent patrol says the baltic states which were once a view to publix washington is also looking at bolstering the shed you training exercise dependent but despite the uncompromising style snakes as chief stressed the anti pasta followed with the political and diplomatic one i knew the ukrainian parliament revert to some parramatta cheesecakes to wait for the opener it is to seize weapons from self defense groups that sprung up during the wave of protests against the previous government the likes of the nationalist profit sector the lights except contributed to toppling full of president getting colder each for the now described by most to another is as dangerous aunt carmen which is threatening order. members take two different weapons that could be one of the weapons. this is a peaceful situation. but if somebody threatened me with a gung have no choice but to take a weapon to possess up to one you'll become a convenient means to be recorded to be more constructive that the government and parliament enacted a new builder and you're told to legalize the weapons in people's hands are still stuck with this is not the time to hand over weapons due to the war with russia in peacetime we should do its bidding war time that's an appropriate in law william them. but the new holden. made of the once peaceful mind and protests actor was the first group to use fine and tactics against djokovic is riot police. it's continued activity risks embarrassing ukraine's new leadership as it tries to promote quarter ahead of may's presidential election thousands of turks took to the streets of anchor on tuesday to demand a partial recount in local elections to have officially given a decisive victory to prime minister issued a tiny bit of the ones reading justice and development party. the ak rice police fired water cannon to disperse crowds who gathered in front of the country's supreme electoral council the election was a major disappointment for the opposition republican people's party chp despite an increase in support their leader has said that they'll challenge the results in the capital and other areas pretense have reportedly begun in several districts meanwhile in the one celebrated his party's victory in front of an arch credit supporters. they're believed to have held onto power in both the istanbul and ankara attacked his age tons of corruption and the crackdown on internet access. turkey's electoral council has said that the final result will not be an unstoppable claims of irregularities or results i'm just really didn't want me to one or in the first leg of the champions league for the total cost of the films so didn't know them and give it to open the scoring for the hottest spot ahead of all possible the abundant in the fifty eight minutes the stench poised like a equalised eight minutes late to help determine the width of the salt water from the monuments the kids headed down. the story across. what a frustrating one awful. you don't. a good meeting with the game without falling into released under the stall to stall the restart the visitors ahead in the future if the magnetic beads and shells internationally but he was in the seventy first minute i just get them just yet. we went to the defendants knowing that they grow. to show its real madrid the champions league would literally take over mr dalton in the last leg of the quarter final. but by wednesday. during his two unbeaten but the general fund for three on aggregate will still be without the injured most of my books for his top goal scorer chris judd or another should be taught in italy but talented david welsh international gareth bale. moral of the road the two of us is that the maybe his two month. his best the viewer into a man but he is very important for us and. the he is going very wrong. you'll have to make do with the blacksmith institute a chunk of plastic cups came muscle stress that can stand in the oval addition to the stumble button and asking the back four goals in that it's the people who defeated or the offseason. take the issue here is what the legal authorities the bonus to this. elsewhere in sheila's he would be looking to bounce back from the show one no premier league defeat to crystal palace for the weekend criminal courts were to ever hit the beach is passed on to lead the party products. with nothing to lose a few different as the seasons will color in indy. it began to ring in them continue to haunt is a bonus for us because he's open to going off of two years and we are beginners in everything we do and to see as opposed to going on fifteen years nobody won the champions league to live up to one day competition denigrate club have a great coach in the and then it snowed it tuesday are expected to be at full strength for cesarean is having some have taken most of the front of the suffering a hamstring problem against arsenal despite thousands of workers toiling around the house to house all twelve stadiums radiance on the twenty fourteen world cup in brazil goal line technology is ready and will be available to officials is to have it germany based company called control will supply the system but in a successful trial german confederation cup in brazil lost it. we have a seven cameras for each firm going and they look at the dollar on the catwalks. you can see it. still positions soul deccan was behind to go in and camels in front of the golan. so to speak of all border on tuesday on a sixty degree. going. so we would look nice on any doors or any territories and the what's the scene. the ball with redundancy. there were no close calls on court on incidents during the confederation cup the technology had functioned well. colin jordan shows the boys position is continuously and automatically capture the three game sending the signal to the referees what's within seconds the confederate ago when things go. or will i i i though. a day the eye. shh shh. the ah. the dough the south. i will. eu eu. it is easy. he is. the veto. i just pulled in and camisole come up pretty soon i will miss out on the present than it has become one so we'll be meeting with them. each the show. i asked. she's going to hit you on the up to the ddt. all you need to the boss. many appleby it badminton is here the master of its own time to mull over it soon she tosses it over with oprah went off at seven this. to do it. he is. as that. the to be working. the cheese in it. so this is my office. choosing the one thing that prevents the cheapest to get rid of the people of the trucks are now attempting to change the image of the country as per contest. it's true that women too. the woman enjoying their drinks. this course of the country the incursion to put this. this site. yet this is our land which is very important to me first because it occurred is overwhelming all are in compliance and the houses were explored. in the end. i would take him to dubai. also it is that the whole country. for me to pick it at this price because it shows a woman are capable of achieving success. i would like to call american women especially young girls to work hard to get up too stunned to read reports of action the next weekend too i forgot what's the show so that they can do any job the government asserted stricter. great show. you don't need to stay in the house. the tender of all the suffering they can get out the can get like that the kids were pretty stoked what if he knew knew who who who who who who who who who who who. the rule. i know. i know. welcome to the world islam and you know tommy and tok tok here's a look at some of the stories we're following this hour. i am. a powerful earthquake off the coast of northern chile has left six people dead and triggered tsunami in the pacific. south korea military officials say two drones that recently crashed within its borders may have been sent on the door japanese utilities want to get nuclear reactors back online art operating engineers to
from lincoln center in new york. good evening. thanks for joining us. russian foreign minister sergei lavrov and secretary of state john kerry will meet tomorrow in paris to discuss the crisis in ukraine. lavrov said his country has no interest in invading eastern ukraine. this despite a large buildup of russian troops near the border between the two countries. nato secretary-general said the alliance is worried about russia's attentions and called the troop buildup a concrete threat to ukraine. it is now three weeks since malaysia airlines flight 370 went missing, and today the hunt for the 777 tripled 700 miles from where the serb was going on. one of the aircraft found three brightly colored objects in the new search area. wrapping up his week-long trip in europe and saudi arabia this morning, president obama bestowed a human rights award on a woman who promotes stopping violence in that country. the president reportedly did not raise the issue of human rights or women's rights in saudi arabia during his conversations with saudi king abdullah. at the stroke of midnight, gay marriage became legal in england and wales, and gave couples across that country to tie the knot. last july parliament passed legislation legalizing same-sex marriage with david cameron. civil partnerships had been legal since 2005. britain is now the 15th country to allow gay marriage. a promising treatment to help millions of americans with high blood pressure has been shown to be ineffective. the treatment called renal denervation failed to reduce hypertension. the treatment was considered a break-through for high blood pressure that couldn't be lowered with drugs. an earthquake struck the downtown area, but the quake broke water mains. objects were also tossed from stoor shelves. tlr with dozens of after-shocks overnight. in washington state, a moment of silence. to mark the moment a week ago todayhen a huge landslide buried a cluster of homes north of seattle. 27 people are presumed dead and 90 more are still believed missing. the revelation late yesterday afternoon that russian president vladimir putin called president obama with hopes that the situation in ukraine might be solved through diplomacy. tens of thousands of russian soldiers show no sign of pulling back. for more about that, we're joined now from washington by anthony from the center for strategic and international stud sis. so, there are some estimates by ukrainians there might be up to 85,000 russian troops along the border. whatever the number is, do we know about the composition of those forces? and what can russia do with that kind of an army? >> well, first, we don't really know the exact structure. we have been told on background, there are between 48,000 and 50,000 at least troops. they haven't identified which units they belong to. but russia announced there were going to be exercises, and there haven't been any exercises, they just kept building up a presence, one that could be going into eastern ukraine. troops aren't the only problem. there are very large numbers of ministry of interior units russia also has. these are almost ideal troops for occupying cities and urban areas. there are certainly pro-russian elements in some of the cities in the eastern ukraine. so at almost any time you could have a russian thrust into the eastern ukraine, and one that could at least take some cities, probably in a matter of days, if not hours. >> we've been focused on crimea. are there other regions we need to be concerned about? last week we mentioned the area between moldova and ukraine. >> russia has a limited presence in the area already. it is not a marriage combat presence, but there is no major combat presence in that area, in the ukraine to the east or to the west. it's certainly an area russia could suddenly put pressure on the ukraine. there is an airborne guard division, basically, which could be moved in, at least in part, fairly quickly. because the ukraine, frankly, is not capable of effective air defense. so russia certainly has the ability to put pressure on the ukraine in two different directions. and i think what's of great concern to the ukraine is when putin called obama, he didn't talk about negotiations alone, he talked about the fact that russia had no intention of invading if the ukraine did not have hard line elements in its government, if there are no protests against the russians. so it really was not in any sense a quick initiative towards peace. >> so countries like astonia, lithuania, latvia, they've been asked for increased nato presence. do they have reason to be concerned? >> we have not seen any element of russian invasion, but the baltic states are near major russian forces. they really don't have to do anything. they're already there. to put pressure on them. and we have moved u.s. aircraft into one of those states, as we have into poland. but i think certainly in today's climate, the problem is, if the ukraine becomes a major source of confrontation between east and west, if russia goes beyond the crimea, and thrusts into the ukraine, then nato's response would have to be largely in other areas, and that could trigger a process of confrontation, that none of these states can predict. >> anthony, joining us from washington, thanks so much. >> thank you. and now to our signature segment. our original in-depth reports from around the nation and the world. for years a debate has raged across the united states about tenure for teachers. that battle is now playing out in a california courtroom where a number of students have joined forces with a multimillionaire to try to strike down that state's tenure laws. an effort being resisted by the teachers union. final arguments in the case were thursday. megan thompson reports. >> sisters beatrice and elizabeth attend public high school in a low-income mostly hispanic section of northern los angeles. the girls are aiming for college, and would be the first in the family with higher degrees. but the sisters say in middle school, they face obstacles in pursuing their education. chaotic classrooms and little to no instruction. elizabeth, now a junior, and beatrice, a sophomore, say back in 7th grade they both had a particularly bad history teacher. >> he would just be at his desk. use his computer, or sleeping. >> i didn't learn anything. >> he wouldn let students smoke marijuana in class. >> reporter: beatrice also says a science teacher was offensive. >> he would call this girl a -- and go over there. >> what went through your mind when you heard that? >> i didn't want to -- i didn't want him to offend me. >> reporter: they were really being traumatized by these teachers. beatrice and elizabeth's mother, who emigrated from mexico, said she complained to a school administrator about the two teachers, and two others. but she says nothing happened. >> he didn't do anything to address the situation. they didn't take me seriously. >> so in 2012 she volunteered her daughters to join a lawsuit against the state and teachers unions that went to trial in january. >> i felt i was wasting my time. not learning anything. >> reporter: the nine student plaintiffs in the case are challenging two main areas of state law. permanent employment and dismissal statutes, the plaintiffs say make it difficult to get rid of bad teachers. and the seniority based layoff system, which they say makes it hard to keep good, less senior teachers during difficult times. >> there were certain teachers that you knew, if you got stuck in their class, you wouldn't learn a thing. >> instead of learning a subject, he sat in the class coloring and watching videos. >> reporter: the plaintiffs say the laws deny students their right to a quality education, guaranteed by the california constitution. and affect minority students. experts say the legal strategy could be used to challenge education laws in other states. >> our education system delivers a constitutional right. so there's a certain responsibility of our society to deliver. >> i believe every child everywhere -- >> reporter: david welsh is a wealthy silicon valley entrepreneur who largely finances students matter, an education reform group that spearheaded the lawsuit. as of 2012, welsh had donated or loaned nearly $2 million to the group, which is footings the bill for a high-powered legal time that includes ted olson, former solicitor general of the united states. he went to public schools for most of his education. >> most of these teachers have had a successful career. >> reporter: welsh also has three young kids, and has supported other education and environmental causes over the years. what motivated you? >> i'm a father, i'm an employer, and when i look at the system, i realize the system actually inhibits one of the most important things for an education, for a child, and that's access -- uniform access for every child to have a passion al and effective teacher. >> reporter: some people say kids were recruited. maybe they're just being used for the personal mission of a wealthy businessman. >> when you sat there and watch the children get on the stand, there's no one that put them up to that other than themselves. >> and made me not want to try. or show up to school. >> reporter: one law he's fighting is the statute that governs teacher layoffs. california is one of ten states that requires seniority be considered to determine who stays or goes during budget cuts. john is the superintendent of the unified school district, and he testified against the so-called in, first out law. >> i can't find a more destructive statute for the students, staff or system. we've had to lay off very effective teachers in the same school that we are documenting the teacher for dismissal. >> their contributions to the school, their relationships with students, how they're supporting and helping parents, none of the factors other than the hiring date is used. now, is seniority an important contribution? i would argue it is. it shouldn't be the only factor, however. >> reporter: the lawsuit also challenges laws governing teacher tenure. california's two-year probationary period for new teachers is one of the shortest in the nation. after two years, most teachers get permanent employment status. superintendent gacy said that permanent status means the l.a. school district can end up spending hundreds of thousands to fire a single underperforming teacher, a process he says could take up to a decade. >> the overwhelming majority of teachers are amazing people. phenomenal people. we're talking about a small subset who should and must leave employment. >> it came out in the trial that only about 3% of teachers who were evaluated last year were below standard. should we overhaul the entire system to take care of what might be a few bad apples? >> when you've identified chronic low performers, you can't exit them quick enough so the students are not being harmed. that's what we're talking about. >> are there teachers who shouldn't in the classroom? absolutely. but to blow up the entire system for evaluating and protecting teacher rights based on a couple of students' perspective, i think really misses the boat. >> reporter: joshua is president of the california federation of teachers, one of the unions fighting the lawsuit. he says the union supports efforts to streamline the dismissal process. >> i think the process could be more effective and efficient. >> reporter: he said many ineffective teachers are weeded out during the two-year probation period. and he says granting permanent status to the rest encourages them to stay op the job, despite often difficult class roomd conditions. >> the bigger problem we have in california, and i think nationally, is that we can't keep teachers in the profession. classes are overcrowded. that really is a bigger issue in public education. that's creating conditions that make it attractive for people to make this a life-long profession. >> reporter: this 4th grade teacher in englewood, california, says she knows firsthand how precarious her job can be. she's been laid off three times in the last three years because she doesn't have enough seniority, then brought back. even though, she supports the seniority based layoff system. she said it's objective and clear. >> it's fair. it's fair, and i support it. >> reporter: she al says she supports the other part of the law that's being challenged. permanent status for teachers after two years. she says that provision actually add vocates for students withou fear of being fired. >> i speak out very frequently about resources being brought to our district, for lowering class sizes. if i'm local, someone doesn't like what i'm saying, then i can be let go for that. and i don't think that's fair. >> reporter: and they also say a teacher's effectiveness is difficult to measure. and they say students don't necessarily connect with every teacher. during the trial, elizabeth testified that she learned nothing in english class, and wasn't assigned an entire book to read all year. but the teacher testified that her reading scores actually west up. >> we read and wrote every day. >> did you ever receive any negative marks on your evaluations or observations? >> i did not. >> reporter: the defense also argued many superintendents, including daisy, had the rule to get rid of ineffective teachers. >> to increase the dismissals from ten in 2009, to 99 in the 2011 to 2012 school year, correct? >> i believe that's accurate. >> people on the other side of this issue said this isn't about the statute, it's about the management. the school is well run, they can get rid of ineffective teachers. >> that is not the point. the point is, students' rights to be in front of a highly effective teacher. a teacher who is not harming them every single day of the year. >> reporter: the sisters say that's all they want for their old middle school. as it turns out the first two teachers they complained about are still teaching there. >> it's horrible. there are students who actually want to learn. >> i want to have good teachers that motivate me. not only me, but everyone. >> reporter: the judge will deliver a verdict in the case in the coming weeks. any decision he makes is expected to be appealed. >> find out which states have teacher tenure laws. some of the world's best young opera singers hail from a place that might surprise you. the impoverished black townships of south africa. they're performing at the documentary film festival, for a documentary about their lives. the film's director, julie cohen, tells the story of one of the singers. >> i grew up in difficulty. i grew up in poverty. there was a time where my mom and dad both didn't work, but they tried to make sure there was something on the table for us to eat. >> he grew up in a township in central south africa. with the same challenges confronting many of the country's black communities. crime, poor access to health care, and an unemployment rate of up to 70%. >> my dad was a messenger in a bank before he was retrenched. >> in his early childhood, before apartheid ended and nelson mandela was elected president in 1994, the family had to contend with racist laws that restricted travel and education. >> that is why i always tell all my children that since we are in new environment, please devote yourself to status. >> his vision of a better life was filled with music. in his church choir he discovered a talent for singing. he was chosen for a community chorus where he first learned opera, which he wanted to pursue as a career. his parents, who hoped he would support them in old age, were skeptical. did your father make those concerns clear to you? >> yes, he made them quite clear. i mean, the dream was mine. >> he was accepted to the opera school at the university of capetown, which had been white only for most of its 100-year history. >> our culture is a thing to go to university. >> the family was able to scrape together bus fare to send him to capetown. he was awarded a scholarship including room and board. >> the right to music. i feel it's a fundamental human right. we all have a right to have a chance to make music. >> but with a first-grade education, it opened doors to opportunities unthinkable a generation ago. shortly after completing his undergraduate degree, he was selected as an apprentice in upstate new york, and invited to sing before the united nations general assembly. >> it was an auspicious occasion. a very elegant different posture. >> but as thrilled as he was by accolades from around the world, he had another audience in mind, his mom and dad had never seen an opera. >> i would like to see a theater. >> the makers of "i live to sing" paid for plane tickets so his parents could come to capetown to see him perform. the city's main opera hall once closed to both black performers and black audiences is now a launching pad for a new generation of black opera stars. as his parents listened intently, he took center stage. this is pbs news hour weekend saturday. and now to viewers like you, your chance to tell us what you think. tonight, some of the comments you judged most popular. we heard from many of you about our report last week from the netherlands about the pot laws there. something we thought was especially timely as tuesday's colorado and washington had legalized recreational marijuana. jillian echoed comments by a dutch researcher who said marijuana is less damaging than other legal sub sdastances and we could prevent a lot of harm alcohol causes by choosing cannabis instead of alcohol. august responded by saying, i agree. tolerance, flexibility, pragmatism is key indeed. i'm against drugs, i always discourage cannabis consumption, but believe in regulation because it results in a less harmful society. a viewer called candid 1 was critical of our report saying, comparing two modest size western u.s. states with a modest size sovereign old world nation is a stretch. pierre chimed in on facebook. he wrote, as with all things, americans will do things our own way, and we don't need lessons in capitalism from anyone. stronger forces will overcome weaker ones, advantages will be exploited, whatever negative health implications there are will be absorbed in the name of the money generated. some of the toughest language came from douglas, who wanted us to come down forcefully in favor of legalization. would it kill you to develop just a little bit of an edge, something bold rather than meandering pieces like this? let us know what you think. our website is newshour.pbs.org. there you'll also see a timeline documenting the dramatic changes to american and dutch drug laws. join us on air and online tomorrow. we'll take you to east africa where some countries are devising plans to try to profit from e-weight, discarded computers coming from the united states and other western countries. >> looking at income generating. >> that's this edition of pbs news hour weekend. thank you for watching. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com [applause] >> did you know it's possible to make your heart ten years younger, regardless of your body composition, genetics, or age? and as you follow this plan, you'll feel healthier, trimmer, fitter, sexier, mentally sharper, and better than you have in a decade. >> narrator: dr. steven masley is board-certified physician, nutritionist, longevity researcher, and award-winning educator, honored as a fellow by the american heart association. >> your food choices, they make a huge difference, not just on your cholesterol profile; they impact the function of your arteries themselves. >> narrator: he is a chef trained at the four seasons and has created delicious, healthy recipes as part of his program to transform his patients' lives
>> hello, i'm ray suarez. a confident superior court judge decided that a state system of teacher turn hurts kids. the decision used in estimate 1% to 3% of teachers are ineffective, and in a huge state of california that means thousands of educators. since most of those ineffective teachers, the judge reasoned too much in low income schools, if you give them the job protection offered by tenure you're hurting poor and minority students. teacher tenure is an constitution, and it helped professionalize and depoliticize k through 12 education. fast forward 100 years, teacher's unions and tenure rules are not portrayed as helpful but road blocks. the tenure rules would not take investigate after the judge's ruling survives an appeal. but when something this big happens in california, it's news and likely will have an impact elsewhere. >> the judge ruled that california's teacher tenure laws deprive students of a quality education service and violate the civil rights under state constitution. the judge used strong language saying the statutes disproportionately effect poor and minority students and the evidence is coming. indeed, it shocks the conscience. >> there were certain teach urgency you knew if you were stuck in their class you wouldn't learn a thing. that year would be a lost year. if we learned what education is it makes no sense that we wouldn't make sure that every kid has a good teacher every year. >> that case is calls vagara verse california. their effort is backed by the non-profit group students matter funded by silicon valley magnate david welsh. teachers are allowed to apply for tenure after two years, they asked the last in first out regardless teachers are good or not, times with the least time on the job are the first to lose their jobs in budget cuts. arnie duncan hailed the judge's ruling saying that it could help dozens of students who are hurt. it has long pitted teachers unions against reformers. three states in the district o district of columbia have limited tenure. it's one that is fun to watch and could have an impact nationwide. >> does it follow that making it easier to fire teachers would help poor and minority kids get an enter education? is the custom governing the work rules of employees work as something that qualifies as an equal protection case. is it as hard as some will tell you to get rid of a bad teacher, and how should a new teacher get job protection after two years in the classroom? is that good policy? all these questions are at the heart of the debate in the tea teacher tenure challenge. dana goll steen, the our thorough of "the teacher wars." jonathan is president of the california federation of teachers, and ted is the lead attorney for the student plaintiffs in the california teachers tenure case. joshua, how does tenure work in california? if i'm a first- or second-year teacher is there a trigger date in which i'll become protected by that tenure? >> yes, that's a good question, ray. your first two years you're a temporary teacher, you could be dismissed any time during those first two years without any explanation, and many teachers are let go after their first year for, for example, the administration says we don't want you back. those first two years your probationary teacher. the administration decides you should move on then to permanent status you do that, but it should be clear, i want to make clear that at no time is this a lifetime guarantee of a job. it simply entitles you to due process once you pass your probationary period to decide whether you should move onto the next phase. you still are evaluated on a regular basis after your second year. >> but even in your third year of teaching you're still pretty young in the profession. should you already be fared that kind of protection, the threshold being raised much higher to move you out if you're not doing a good job? >> so this was a key part of their argument. i spent more than 20 years in an inner city high school in los angeles. i saw a lot and interviewed a lot of beginning teachers. i was a mentor to many. frankly, we could tell pretty early on whether that particular adult should be working with young people. it can happen quickly. it can certainly happen in two years. it just means that administration has to come in, visit your classroom on a regular basis, assess whether you have the make up to work with young people. you have the patience, not all adults have that patience. but i do think it can happen relatively quickly, and it certainly can happen in two years. >> ted, you went to court to argue that this wasn't working for california kids. you havwhat's the problem? joshua makes a straightforward argument for how it operates at present. >> joshua described a system that we don't have in california. what judge troy found, tenure can be made in less than 18 months before they have finished their training. once they're given permanent employment. that's what it's called. it triggers these arduous arbitrary 20-step process to dismiss a teacher that everyone would agree is grossly ineffective, not teaching students. that creates a circle where those grossly ineffective teachers can't be dismissed. it can take years, two to ten years, hundreds of thousands of dollarsers those teachers stay in the classroom. they disproportionately end up in low and low minority school districts. those kids lose years of learning, lifetime earning capacity goes down. it's not even close. it's an irrational law that is creating disparity in our school season. >> dana, were you convinced that from what you saw that these ineffective teachers were ending up heavily concentrated in poor and minority schools? >> there are effective and ineffective teachers in all sorts of schools that teach amen sorts of kids. i don't think there is rain doubt that ineffective and inexperienced teachers are clustered in low income schools. i think the question to ask is why is that that, and whether nullifying these laws will solve the problem. >> california is not the first step arguing over teen your and moving on ineffective teachers. i know the boards of education that i've covered in new york, chicago, elsewhere, how come tenure is such a widespread phenomenon? where did it start in the first place? wasn't it thought of as a good move in the first place? >> it dates back to 1909 when school reformers looked at europe and in particular germany, and they looked at german teachers who were thought to be higher performing teachers had tenure, and tha it was agreed that we should have tenure i in a profession that does not pay very well, that it would apractice people to the profession. since then it has never stopped being controversial. it's important to realize when the obama administration took office, two-thirds had weakened their tenure laws. california was a state that did not do that earlier on. what we see with the ruling in california, california sort of catching up to this debate that had a been going on in other states in the past five years. >> we're going to take a short break. when we come back we'll talk more about the fact that in many ways this was simply an equal protection case. what is it about teaching and the vulnerability of poor and minority students that makes the california decision such a hard fought case? stay with us. this is inside story. >> i'm ali velshi, the news has become this thing where you talk to experts about people, and al jazeera has really tried to talk to people, about their stories. we are not meant to be your first choice for entertainment. we are ment to be your first choice for the news. >> welcome back to "inside story" on al jazeera america. i'm ray suarez. through the long history of the national debates about schools and quality of education a lot of plane and attention has been aimed at teachers. the california tenure system makes it very hard and time-consuming and costly to fire an ineffective teacher. in the court case of vagara versus the state of california, a judge decided that the tenure cit system has to go. was it proven, can it be proven in court that a tenure system lands more heavily on the backs of kids who need what public schooling has to offer the most? >> as judge troy found the evidence was overwhelming. really, the unions and state admitted first low income and minority kids were getting a disproportionate number of grossly ineffective teachers. and it shows if a kid gets a grossly ineffective teacher for one year, they lose a year of their life. and the grossly ineffective teachers were being shuttled in the low income and minority school districts. it wasn't even a close call in terms of the evidence. and the other thing that is special about california is our constitution includes a fundamental right to quality education. and education is really the launching pad, the platform for kids succeed in life, society, and across the board and to have low income and minority kids getting the brunt of thighs laws. our experts were harvard, stanford from around the country testifyin testifying that these laws have a direct appreciable impact on kids in, that's what the judge found and the evidence was powerful. we do have control group. is the situation much better in collective bargaining? >> no, student achievement is lower in states that don't have collective bargaining than those that do have collective bargaining. that said, tenure exists in even in states that don't have collective bargaining. tenure pre-committees collective bargaining and as i said it dates back to 1909. collective barkincollective bargaining dates back to the 60's. what weather would good teachers come from if we get rid of bad teachers. i don't think it makes sense to give a teacher tenure after 18 months. i think we need two or three years. teachers in surveys say they're willing to wait five years. i think that's interesting that teachers say that. we do know from evidence when jobs are open in the poorest performing schools the great teachers do not rush to fill those jobs. there is data from all over the country that principals have a hugely difficult time to fill these jobs. even when teachers are given $20,000 bonuses. 75% of the great teachers say no thanks, i don't want the extra money. i don't want to work in a struggling school. it's not just hard to fire teachers, but it's hard to hire teachers and it's important to remember that part of the equation. >> had a about the members who have nothing to fear from the loss of tenure, are they rushing to the barricades to defend their brothers and sisters who might be rated ineffective teachers? >> well, what we're rushing to do is, number one, argue that our rights are not in conflict with the right of students. teachers who have a right to advocate for kids. teachers who have a right to stand up and say we should not be testing here, spending money here. those give us the ability to be good teachers and we're fighting to protect that right. i would challenge the notion that some how these under performing teachers some how flock to poor schools. teachers don't decides where they're going to get hired. districts decide where they're going to place teachers, and if it's the case that teachers with some seniority decide to move to other parts of the city, they do so because the conditions in those schools are very challenging. >> why keep it? give me the case for keeping it? what as a mechanism would be lost if teacher tenure was removed. >> i want to get into this because this is key. what these folks would like to do is to create a system that evaluates teachers based on test scores. that's the only mechanism they can find to evaluate literally thousands of teachers in a school district. in l.a. you have 35,000 teachers. and when teachers are laid off you have to assess teachers one through 35,000. we already have 10, 15, 20 years of seeing an educational te system deformed by test scores. it has narrowed curriculum, pushed out music, incentivized cheating and disrupts what we do in the classroom. while it may not an effective way of determining who comes and who goes, it's better than all the other methods including subjective evaluation. using how we fire teachers as a way of driving education reform is wrongheaded. this decision is not going to put an additional pencil in any child's hand. there is no additional school books. no additional funding. it's not going to bring any librarians to schools. the notion that we're going to fire our way to educational excellence is ludicrous. >> being able to get rid of ineffective teachers is not going to help you one bit in addressing the other structural problems in education in california. >> two things, ray. first, we're not talking about firing our way to excellence. we're talking about grossly ineffective teachers who are harming kids every day. everyone greed. experts on the other side agreed, grossly ineffective teachers are in classrooms and harm children. that's one piece of it. the other piece of it is we're not talking about i monolithic looking at test scores, but a variety of things. in-class performance, observation, are kids doing better. that would be one factor. the other part of the law that the judge struck down is the law that fires teachers without looking at how they're doing their job. if they're doing a great job they still get fired. does our case resolve every issue, no. >> when we come back we'll talk about the prospects going forward for california and for tenured teachers everywhere. this is inside story. stay with us. r >> you're watching inside story on al jazeera america. i'm ray suarez. teacher teen your on this edition of the program in california the system that protects teachers jobs have been challenged by a judge's decision to cra scrap the decision to offer tenure using the last hi hired, first fired, and making it difficult to let a teacher go. >> dana, the democratic party and leading democratic elected officials are often portrayed as being in lock step with the teacher's unions joined at the hip and so on. why the as we heard arnie duncan supported the decision. other democratic elected officials have. is this not always cleaving needly and logically along partisan lines? >> it's not really a partisan issue any more, and that idea that the democratic party is in lock step with the teacher's union is an old idea an it's not relevant. president obama and other high profile democrats across the country, whether it's corey booker, rahm emmanuel, the mayor in chicago, all these people are all considered critics, sometimes harsh critics of tea teachers' unions. it will be interesting to see what happens in the lex presidential election. hillary clinton when she ran in 2007-2008, she got both of those major teachers unions endorsements because she's less critical of teacher's unions. whether she makes more nice with the unions than president obama has. >> jerry brown has depicted a friend of the unions. california is an union friendly state traditionally as well. is this going to stand? does this have a shot on appeal? >> i--yes, i'm not an expert on california politics. i would be interested in the thoughts of the other two guests. jerry brown has been more sympathetic to the unions. this is a blow to the unions on friendly turf. >> who is backing your side? i know you were working on behalf of students plaintiffs. i doubt they had a cookie sail or a bake sail at one of their classrooms to pay their fees. who made sure whose case got proud. who is paying your hourlies? >> it's a great american story. a man named dave welsh in engineer entrepreneur looked around at what was happening to our public school system in california, and said these laws must be wrong. this must be illegal. this can't go on. he formed the group "students matter. students matter have been going back to an eclectic array of organizations, some liberal, some conservative. democrats, runs, to raise the funds to pursue a lawsuit like this. we've done some of our work pro bo bono. but it's been a partnership. i went to public schools. my law partners went to public schools. we want to create a platform for every kid to get an equal shot at a successful and fulfilling life. and dale welsh and students matter set out to do that. i think we're going to win on appeal. one thing about trials you get to put on the evidence cross-examine witnesses and i think the constitution of california will trump those laws and we'll win on appeal. we feel good where we are. and we hope that it helps the state of california and nationwide. >> are you prepared to fight an up hill battle to defend what your teachers have had for a long time. >> we have a long road to go. we are confident that the evidence is overwhelming, that these statutes don't deny equal access. but more importantly we're going to continue to work hard, to educate kids, to explain these issues with are at times quite complicated. i will finally just say and just repeating the point that dana made earlier. if getting rid of seniority in due process were magic elicksers, then why is it that states like florida, georgia, louisiana, other anti-labor states are not models of equity or academic excellence. the reason they are not is there are other profound issues than simply these protections for teachers that shape how kids are educated, and they have to do with poverty, funding for education, and a whole slew of other issues that these folks, frankly, can talk about, but are unwilling to act upon whereas the teacher unions, we fight to bring resources to the classroom. we actually put our mouth into practice. so i'm confident at the end of the day that we're going to be victorious. >> we're at the end of our town. joshua, dana, ted, great to talk to you all. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> that brings us to the end of this edition of inside story. thanks for being with us. the program may be over but the conversation continues. we want to hear what you think about the issues raised on this or any day's show. you can log on to our facebook page. you can send us your thoughts on twitter. our handle is aj inside story am or reach me directly at ray suarez news. see you for the next inside story in washington. i'm ray suarez. >> ithis is the declaration of independence 2.0. >> the gettysburg address, the america's most important speech, the words of abraham lincoln is the latest of burns work. >> the flawed hypocrisy of thompson jefferson's original declarations. >> one doubling down to one of
>> hello, i'm ray suarez. a confident superior court judge decided that a state system of teacher turn hurts kids. the decision used in estimate 1% to 3% of teachers are ineffective, and in a huge state of california that means thousands of educators. since most of those ineffective teachers, the judge reasoned too much in low income schools, if you give them the job protection offered by tenure you're hurting poor and minority students. teacher tenure is an constitution, and it helped professionalize and depoliticize k through 12 education. fast forward 100 years, teacher's unions and tenure rules are not portrayed as helpful but road blocks. the tenure rules would not take investigate after the judge's ruling survives an appeal. but when something this big happens in california, it's news and likely will have an impact elsewhere. >> the judge ruled that california's teacher tenure laws deprive students of a quality education service and violate the civil rights under state constitution. the judge used strong language saying the statutes disproportionately effect poor and minority students and the evidence is coming. indeed, it shocks the conscience. >> there were certain teach urgency you knew if you were stuck in their class you wouldn't learn a thing. that year would be a lost year. if we learned what education is it makes no sense that we wouldn't make sure that every kid has a good teacher every year. >> that case is calls vagara verse california. their effort is backed by the non-profit group students matter funded by silicon valley magnate david welsh. teachers are allowed to apply for tenure after two years, they asked the last in first out regardless teachers are good or not, times with the least time on the job are the first to lose their jobs in budget cuts. arnie duncan hailed the judge's ruling saying that it could help dozens of students who are hurt. it has long pitted teachers unions against reformers. three states in the district o district of columbia have limited tenure. it's one that is fun to watch and could have an impact nationwide. >> does it follow that making it easier to fire teachers would help poor and minority kids get an enter education? is the custom governing the work rules of employees work as something that qualifies as an equal protection case. is it as hard as some will tell you to get rid of a bad teacher, and how should a new teacher get job protection after two years in the classroom? is that good policy? all these questions are at the heart of the debate in the tea teacher tenure challenge. dana goll steen, the our thorough of "the teacher wars." jonathan is president of the california federation of teachers, and ted is the lead attorney for the student plaintiffs in the california teachers tenure case. joshua, how does tenure work in california? if i'm a first- or second-year teacher is there a trigger date in which i'll become protected by that tenure? >> yes, that's a good question, ray . your first two years you're a temporary teacher, you could be dismissed any time during those first two years without any explanation, and many teachers are let go after their first year for, for example, the administration says we don't want you back. those first two years your probationary teacher. the administration decides you should move on then to permanent status you do that, but it should be clear, i want to make clear that at no time is this a lifetime guarantee of a job. it simply entitles you to due process once you pass your probationary period to decide whether you should move onto the next phase. you still are evaluated on a regular basis after your second year. >> but even in your third year of teaching you're still pretty young in the profession. should you already be fared that kind of protection, the threshold being raised much higher to move you out if you're not doing a good job? >> so this was a key part of their argument. i spent more than 20 years in an inner city high school in los angeles. i saw a lot and interviewed a lot of beginning teachers. i was a mentor to many. frankly, we could tell pretty early on whether that particular adult should be working with young people. it can happen quickly. it can certainly happen in two years. it just means that administration has to come in, visit your classroom on a regular basis, assess whether you have the make up to work with young people. you have the patience, not all adults have that patience. but i do think it can happen relatively quickly, and it certainly can happen in two years. >> ted, you went to court to argue that this wasn't working for california kids. you havwhat's the problem? joshua makes a straightforward argument for how it operates at present. >> joshua described a system that we don't have in california. what judge troy found, tenure can be made in less than 18 months before they have finished their training. once they're given permanent employment. that's what it's called. it triggers these arduous arbitrary 20-step process to dismiss a teacher that everyone would agree is grossly ineffective, not teaching students. that creates a circle where those grossly ineffective teachers can't be dismissed. it can take years, two to ten years, hundreds of thousands of dollarsers those teachers stay in the classroom. they disproportionately end up in low and low minority school districts. those kids lose years of learning, lifetime earning capacity goes down. it's not even close. it's an irrational law that is creating disparity in our school season. >> dana, were you convinced that from what you saw that these ineffective teachers were ending up heavily concentrated in poor and minority schools? >> there are effective and ineffective teachers in all sorts of schools that teach amen sorts of kids. i don't think there is rain doubt that ineffective and inexperienced teachers are clustered in low income schools. i think the question to ask is why is that that, and whether nullifying these laws will solve the problem. >> california is not the first step arguing over teen your and moving on ineffective teachers. i know the boards of education that i've covered in new york, chicago, elsewhere, how come tenure is such a widespread phenomenon? where did it start in the first place? wasn't it thought of as a good move in the first place? >> it dates back to 1909 when school reformers looked at europe and in particular germany, and they looked at german teachers who were thought to be higher performing teachers had tenure, and tha it was agreed that we should have tenure i in a profession that does not pay very well, that it would apractice people to the profession. since then it has never stopped being controversial. it's important to realize when the obama administration took office, two-thirds had weakened their tenure laws. california was a state that did not do that earlier on. what we see with the ruling in california, california sort of catching up to this debate that had a been going on in other states in the past five years. >> we're going to take a short break. when we come back we'll talk more about the fact that in many ways this was simply an equal protection case. what is it about teaching and the vulnerability of poor and minority students that makes the california decision such a hard fought case? stay with us. this is inside story. >> tomorrow, retired senator george mitchell. >> not every problem in the world is an american problem. >> shares his unique perspective on the future of america, home and abroad. >> people everywhere have certain things in common that are actually much greater than their differences. >> every saturday, join us for exclusive, revealing and surprising talks with the most interesting people of our time. talk to al jazeera, tomorrow, 5 eastern. only on al jazeera america. >> welcome back to "inside story" on al jazeera america. i'm ray suarez. through the long history of the national debates about schools and quality of education a lot of plane and attention has been aimed at teachers. the california tenure system makes it very hard and time-consuming and costly to fire an ineffective teacher. in the court case of vagara versus the state of california, a judge decided that the tenure cit system has to go. was it proven, can it be proven in court that a tenure system lands more heavily on the backs of kids who need what public schooling has to offer the most? >> as judge troy found the evidence was overwhelming. really, the unions and state admitted first low income and minority kids were getting a disproportionate number of grossly ineffective teachers. and it shows if a kid gets a grossly ineffective teacher for one year, they lose a year of their life. and the grossly ineffective teachers were being shuttled in the low income and minority school districts. it wasn't even a close call in terms of the evidence. and the other thing that is special about california is our constitution includes a fundamental right to quality education. and education is really the launching pad, the platform for kids succeed in life, society, and across the board and to have low income and minority kids getting the brunt of thighs laws. our experts were harvard, stanford from around the country testifyin testifying that these laws have a direct appreciable impact on kids in, that's what the judge found and the evidence was powerful. we do have control group . is the situation much better in collective bargaining? >> no, student achievement is lower in states that don't have collective bargaining than those that do have collective bargaining. that said, tenure exists in even in states that don't have collective bargaining. tenure pre-committees collective bargaining and as i said it dates back to 1909. collective barkin collective bargaining dates back to the 60's . what weather would good teachers come from if we get rid of bad teachers. i don't think it makes sense to give a teacher tenure after 18 months. i think we need two or three years. teachers in surveys say they're willing to wait five years. i think that's interesting that teachers say that. we do know from evidence when jobs are open in the poorest performing schools the great teachers do not rush to fill those jobs. there is data from all over the country that principals have a hugely difficult time to fill these jobs. even when teachers are given $20,000 bonuses. 75% of the great teachers say no thanks, i don't want the extra money. i don't want to work in a struggling school. it's not just hard to fire teachers, but it's hard to hire teachers and it's important to remember that part of the equation. >> had a about the members who have nothing to fear from the loss of tenure, are they rushing to the barricades to defend their brothers and sisters who might be rated ineffective teachers? >> well, what we're rushing to do is, number one, argue that our rights are not in conflict with the right of students . teachers who have a right to advocate for kids. teachers who have a right to stand up and say we should not be testing here, spending money here. those give us the ability to be good teachers and we're fighting to protect that right. i would challenge the notion that some how these under performing teachers some how flock to poor schools. teachers don't decides where they're going to get hired. districts decide where they're going to place teachers, and if it's the case that teachers with some seniority decide to move to other parts of the city, they do so because the conditions in those schools are very challenging. >> why keep it? give me the case for keeping it? what as a mechanism would be lost if teacher tenure was removed. >> i want to get into this because this is key. what these folks would like to do is to create a system that evaluates teachers based on test scores. that's the only mechanism they can find to evaluate literally thousands of teachers in a school district. in l.a. you have 35,000 teachers. and when teachers are laid off you have to assess teachers one through 35,000. we already have 10, 15, 20 years of seeing an educational te system deformed by test scores. it has narrowed curriculum, pushed out music, incentivized cheating and disrupts what we do in the classroom. while it may not an effective way of determining who comes and who goes, it's better than all the other methods including subjective evaluation. using how we fire teachers as a way of driving education reform is wrongheaded. this decision is not going to put an additional pencil in any child's hand. there is no additional school books. no additional funding. it's not going to bring any librarians to schools. the notion that we're going to fire our way to educational excellence is ludicrous. >> being able to get rid of ineffective teachers is not going to help you one bit in addressing the other structural problems in education in california. >> two things, ray. first, we're not talking about firing our way to excellence. we're talking about grossly ineffective teachers who are harming kids every day . everyone greed. experts on the other side agreed, grossly ineffective teachers are in classrooms and harm children. that's one piece of it. the other piece of it is we're not talking about i monolithic looking at test scores, but a variety of things. in-class performance, observation, are kids doing better. that would be one factor. the other part of the law that the judge struck down is the law that fires teachers without looking at how they're doing their job. if they're doing a great job they still get fired. does our case resolve every issue, no. >> when we come back we'll talk about the prospects going forward for california and for tenured teachers everywhere. this is inside story. stay with us. u. al jazeera america, take a new look at news. >> you're watching inside story on al jazeera america. i'm ray suarez. teacher teen your on this edition of the program in california the system that protects teachers jobs have been challenged by a judge's decision to cra scrap the decision to offer tenure using the last hi hired, first fired, and making it difficult to let a teacher go. >> dana, the democratic party and leading democratic elected officials are often portrayed as being in lock step with the teacher's unions joined at the hip and so on. why the as we heard arnie duncan supported the decision. other democratic elected officials have. is this not always cleaving needly and logically along partisan lines? >> it's not really a partisan issue any more, and that idea that the democratic party is in lock step with the teacher's union is an old idea an it's not relevant. president obama and other high profile democrats across the country, whether it's corey booker , rahm emmanuel, the mayor in chicago, all these people are all considered critics, sometimes harsh critics of tea teachers' unions. it will be interesting to see what happens in the lex presidential election. hillary clinton when she ran in 2007-2008, she got both of those major teachers unions endorsements because she's less critical of teacher's unions. whether she makes more nice with the unions than president obama has. >> jerry brown has depicted a friend of the unions. california is an union friendly state traditionally as well. is this going to stand? does this have a shot on appeal? >> i--yes, i'm not an expert on california politics. i would be interested in the thoughts of the other two guests. jerry brown has been more sympathetic to the unions. this is a blow to the unions on friendly turf. >> who is backing your side? i know you were working on behalf of students plaintiffs. i doubt they had a cookie sail or a bake sail at one of their classrooms to pay their fees. who made sure whose case got proud. who is paying your hourlies? >> it's a great american story. a man named dave welsh in engineer entrepreneur looked around at what was happening to our public school system in california, and said these laws must be wrong. this must be illegal. this can't go on. he formed the group "students matter. students matter have been going back to an eclectic array of organizations, some liberal, some conservative. democrats, runs, to raise the funds to pursue a lawsuit like this. we've done some of our work pro bo bono. but it's been a partnership. i went to public schools. my law partners went to public schools. we want to create a platform for every kid to get an equal shot at a successful and fulfilling life. and dale welsh and students matter set out to do that. i think we're going to win on appeal. one thing about trials you get to put on the evidence cross-examine witnesses and i think the constitution of california will trump those laws and we'll win on appeal. we feel good where we are. and we hope that it helps the state of california and nationwide. >> are you prepared to fight an up hill battle to defend what your teachers have had for a long time. >> we have a long road to go. we are confident that the evidence is overwhelming, that these statutes don't deny equal access. but more importantly we're going to continue to work hard, to educate kids, to explain these issues with are at times quite complicated. i will finally just say and just repeating the point that dana made earlier. if getting rid of seniority in due process were magic elicksers, then why is it that states like florida, georgia, louisiana, other anti-labor states are not models of equity or academic excellence. the reason they are not is there are other profound issues than simply these protections for teachers that shape how kids are educated, and they have to do with poverty, funding for education, and a whole slew of other issues that these folks, frankly, can talk about, but are unwilling to act upon whereas the teacher unions, we fight to bring resources to the classroom. we actually put our mouth into practice. so i'm confident at the end of the day that we're going to be victorious. >> we're at the end of our town. joshua, dana, ted, great to talk to you all. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> that brings us to the end of this edition of inside story. thanks for being with us. the program may be over but the conversation continues. we want to hear what you think about the issues raised on this or any day's show. you can log on to our facebook page. you can send us your thoughts on twitter. our handle is aj inside story am or reach me directly at ray suarez news. see you for the next inside story in washington. i'm ray suarez. >> now inroducing, the new al jazeea america mobile news app. get our exclusive in depth, reporting when you want it. a global perspective wherever you are. the major headlines in context. mashable says... you'll never miss the latest news >> they will continue looking for suvivors... >> the potential for energy production is huge... >> no noise, no clutter, just real reporting. the new al jazeera america mobile app, available for your apple and android mobile device. download it now >> on america tonight, physicians unable to heal themselves. >> doctors' depression and high rate of suicide. >> there's absolutely no reason that we should have a health care system that creates a dynamic in which our he'llers are harming themselves. >> our in department report raises the question, what's the prescription to cure doctors? >> also tonight, front line iraq, america tonight finds an oil-rich nation running on fumes. >> how long have you been
>> hello, i'm ray suarez. a confident superior court judge decided that a state system of teacher turn hurts kids. the decision used in estimate 1% to 3% of teachers are ineffective, and in a huge state of california that means thousands of educators. since most of those ineffective teachers, the judge reasoned too much in low income schools, if you give them the job protection offered by tenure you're hurting poor and minority students. teacher tenure is an constitution, and it helped professionalize and depoliticize k through 12 education. fast forward 100 years, teacher's unions and tenure rules are not portrayed as helpful but road blocks. the tenure rules would not take investigate after the judge's ruling survives an appeal. but when something this big happens in california, it's news and likely will have an impact elsewhere. >> the judge ruled that california's teacher tenure laws deprive students of a quality education service and violate the civil rights under state constitution. the judge used strong language saying the statutes disproportionately effect poor and minority students and the evidence is coming. indeed, it shocks the conscience. >> there were certain teach urgency you knew if you were stuck in their class you wouldn't learn a thing. that year would be a lost year. if we learned what education is it makes no sense that we wouldn't make sure that every kid has a good teacher every year. >> that case is calls vagara verse california. their effort is backed by the non-profit group students matter funded by silicon valley magnate david welsh. teachers are allowed to apply for tenure after two years, they asked the last in first out regardless teachers are good or not, times with the least time on the job are the first to lose their jobs in budget cuts. arnie duncan hailed the judge's ruling saying that it could help dozens of students who are hurt. it has long pitted teachers unions against reformers. three states in the district o district of columbia have limited tenure. it's one that is fun to watch and could have an impact nationwide. >> does it follow that making it easier to fire teachers would help poor and minority kids get an enter education? is the custom governing the work rules of employees work as something that qualifies as an equal protection case. is it as hard as some will tell you to get rid of a bad teacher, and how should a new teacher get job protection after two years in the classroom? is that good policy? all these questions are at the heart of the debate in the tea teacher tenure challenge. dana goll steen, the our thorough of "the teacher wars." jonathan is president of the california federation of teachers, and ted is the lead attorney for the student plaintiffs in the california teachers tenure case. joshua, how does tenure work in california? if i'm a first- or second-year teacher is there a trigger date in which i'll become protected by that tenure? >> yes, that's a good question, ray . your first two years you're a temporary teacher, you could be dismissed any time during those first two years without any explanation, and many teachers are let go after their first year for, for example, the administration says we don't want you back. those first two years your probationary teacher. the administration decides you should move on then to permanent status you do that, but it should be clear, i want to make clear that at no time is this a lifetime guarantee of a job. it simply entitles you to due process once you pass your probationary period to decide whether you should move onto the next phase. you still are evaluated on a regular basis after your second year. >> but even in your third year of teaching you're still pretty young in the profession. should you already be fared that kind of protection, the threshold being raised much higher to move you out if you're not doing a good job? >> so this was a key part of their argument. i spent more than 20 years in an inner city high school in los angeles. i saw a lot and interviewed a lot of beginning teachers. i was a mentor to many. frankly, we could tell pretty early on whether that particular adult should be working with young people. it can happen quickly. it can certainly happen in two years. it just means that administration has to come in, visit your classroom on a regular basis, assess whether you have the make up to work with young people. you have the patience, not all adults have that patience. but i do think it can happen relatively quickly, and it certainly can happen in two years. >> ted, you went to court to argue that this wasn't working for california kids. you havwhat's the problem? joshua makes a straightforward argument for how it operates at present. >> joshua described a system that we don't have in california. what judge troy found, tenure can be made in less than 18 months before they have finished their training. once they're given permanent employment. that's what it's called. it triggers these arduous arbitrary 20-step process to dismiss a teacher that everyone would agree is grossly ineffective, not teaching students. that creates a circle where those grossly ineffective teachers can't be dismissed. it can take years, two to ten years, hundreds of thousands of dollarsers those teachers stay in the classroom. they disproportionately end up in low and low minority school districts. those kids lose years of learning, lifetime earning capacity goes down. it's not even close. it's an irrational law that is creating disparity in our school season. >> dana, were you convinced that from what you saw that these ineffective teachers were ending up heavily concentrated in poor and minority schools? >> there are effective and ineffective teachers in all sorts of schools that teach amen sorts of kids. i don't think there is rain doubt that ineffective and inexperienced teachers are clustered in low income schools. i think the question to ask is why is that that, and whether nullifying these laws will solve the problem. >> california is not the first step arguing over teen your and moving on ineffective teachers. i know the boards of education that i've covered in new york, chicago, elsewhere, how come tenure is such a widespread phenomenon? where did it start in the first place? wasn't it thought of as a good move in the first place? >> it dates back to 1909 when school reformers looked at europe and in particular germany, and they looked at german teachers who were thought to be higher performing teachers had tenure, and tha it was agreed that we should have tenure i in a profession that does not pay very well, that it would apractice people to the profession. since then it has never stopped being controversial. it's important to realize when the obama administration took office, two-thirds had weakened their tenure laws. california was a state that did not do that earlier on. what we see with the ruling in california, california sort of catching up to this debate that had a been going on in other states in the past five years. >> we're going to take a short break. when we come back we'll talk more about the fact that in many ways this was simply an equal protection case. what is it about teaching and the vulnerability of poor and minority students that makes the california decision such a hard fought case? stay with us. this is inside story. >> al jazeera america takes you inside battle torn iraq. as those on all sides of the violence flee for their lives. >> we're seeing family after family just hoping for an escape. a first hand look at the people, politics, and the future of iraq. >> the united states will continue to increase our support to iraqi security forces. >> don't miss america tonight exclusive reports front line iraq only on al jazeera america >> today, retired senator george mitchell. >> not every problem in the world is an american problem. >> shares his unique perspective on the future of america, home and abroad. >> people everywhere have certain things in common that are actually much greater than their differences. >> every saturday, join us for exclusive, revealing and surprising talks with the most interesting people of our time. talk to al jazeera, today, 5 eastern. only on al jazeera america. >> welcome back to "inside story" on al jazeera america. i'm ray suarez. through the long history of the national debates about schools and quality of education a lot of plane and attention has been aimed at teachers. the california tenure system makes it very hard and time-consuming and costly to fire an ineffective teacher. in the court case of vagara versus the state of california, a judge decided that the tenure cit system has to go. was it proven, can it be proven in court that a tenure system lands more heavily on the backs of kids who need what public schooling has to offer the most? >> as judge troy found the evidence was overwhelming. really, the unions and state admitted first low income and minority kids were getting a disproportionate number of grossly ineffective teachers. and it shows if a kid gets a grossly ineffective teacher for one year, they lose a year of their life. and the grossly ineffective teachers were being shuttled in the low income and minority school districts. it wasn't even a close call in terms of the evidence. and the other thing that is special about california is our constitution includes a fundamental right to quality education. and education is really the launching pad, the platform for kids succeed in life, society, and across the board and to have low income and minority kids getting the brunt of thighs laws. our experts were harvard, stanford from around the country testifyin testifying that these laws have a direct appreciable impact on kids in, that's what the judge found and the evidence was powerful. we do have control group . is the situation much better in collective bargaining? >> no, student achievement is lower in states that don't have collective bargaining than those that do have collective bargaining. that said, tenure exists in even in states that don't have collective bargaining. tenure pre-committees collective bargaining and as i said it dates back to 1909. collective barkin collective bargaining dates back to the 60's . what weather would good teachers come from if we get rid of bad teachers. i don't think it makes sense to give a teacher tenure after 18 months. i think we need two or three years. teachers in surveys say they're willing to wait five years. i think that's interesting that teachers say that. we do know from evidence when jobs are open in the poorest performing schools the great teachers do not rush to fill those jobs. there is data from all over the country that principals have a hugely difficult time to fill these jobs. even when teachers are given $20,000 bonuses. 75% of the great teachers say no thanks, i don't want the extra money. i don't want to work in a struggling school. it's not just hard to fire teachers, but it's hard to hire teachers and it's important to remember that part of the equation. >> had a about the members who have nothing to fear from the loss of tenure, are they rushing to the barricades to defend their brothers and sisters who might be rated ineffective teachers? >> well, what we're rushing to do is, number one, argue that our rights are not in conflict with the right of students . teachers who have a right to advocate for kids. teachers who have a right to stand up and say we should not be testing here, spending money here. those give us the ability to be good teachers and we're fighting to protect that right. i would challenge the notion that some how these under performing teachers some how flock to poor schools. teachers don't decides where they're going to get hired. districts decide where they're going to place teachers, and if it's the case that teachers with some seniority decide to move to other parts of the city, they do so because the conditions in those schools are very challenging. >> why keep it? give me the case for keeping it? what as a mechanism would be lost if teacher tenure was removed. >> i want to get into this because this is key. what these folks would like to do is to create a system that evaluates teachers based on test scores. that's the only mechanism they can find to evaluate literally thousands of teachers in a school district. in l.a. you have 35,000 teachers. and when teachers are laid off you have to assess teachers one through 35,000. we already have 10, 15, 20 years of seeing an educational te system deformed by test scores. it has narrowed curriculum, pushed out music, incentivized cheating and disrupts what we do in the classroom. while it may not an effective way of determining who comes and who goes, it's better than all the other methods including subjective evaluation. using how we fire teachers as a way of driving education reform is wrongheaded. this decision is not going to put an additional pencil in any child's hand. there is no additional school books. no additional funding. it's not going to bring any librarians to schools. the notion that we're going to fire our way to educational excellence is ludicrous. >> being able to get rid of ineffective teachers is not going to help you one bit in addressing the other structural problems in education in california. >> two things, ray. first, we're not talking about firing our way to excellence. we're talking about grossly ineffective teachers who are harming kids every day . everyone greed. experts on the other side agreed, grossly ineffective teachers are in classrooms and harm children. that's one piece of it. the other piece of it is we're not talking about i monolithic looking at test scores, but a variety of things. in-class performance, observation, are kids doing better. that would be one factor. the other part of the law that the judge struck down is the law that fires teachers without looking at how they're doing their job. if they're doing a great job they still get fired. does our case resolve every issue, no. >> when we come back we'll talk about the prospects going forward for california and for tenured teachers everywhere. this is inside story. stay with us. >> we're here in the vortex. only on al jazeera america. >> you're watching inside story on al jazeera america. i'm ray suarez. teacher teen your on this edition of the program in california the system that protects teachers jobs have been challenged by a judge's decision to cra scrap the decision to offer tenure using the last hi hired, first fired, and making it difficult to let a teacher go. >> dana, the democratic party and leading democratic elected officials are often portrayed as being in lock step with the teacher's unions joined at the hip and so on. why the as we heard arnie duncan supported the decision. other democratic elected officials have. is this not always cleaving needly and logically along partisan lines? >> it's not really a partisan issue any more, and that idea that the democratic party is in lock step with the teacher's union is an old idea an it's not relevant. president obama and other high profile democrats across the country, whether it's corey booker , rahm emmanuel, the mayor in chicago, all these people are all considered critics, sometimes harsh critics of tea teachers' unions. it will be interesting to see what happens in the lex presidential election. hillary clinton when she ran in 2007-2008, she got both of those major teachers unions endorsements because she's less critical of teacher's unions. whether she makes more nice with the unions than president obama has. >> jerry brown has depicted a friend of the unions. california is an union friendly state traditionally as well. is this going to stand? does this have a shot on appeal? >> i--yes, i'm not an expert on california politics. i would be interested in the thoughts of the other two guests. jerry brown has been more sympathetic to the unions. this is a blow to the unions on friendly turf. >> who is backing your side? i know you were working on behalf of students plaintiffs. i doubt they had a cookie sail or a bake sail at one of their classrooms to pay their fees. who made sure whose case got proud. who is paying your hourlies? >> it's a great american story. a man named dave welsh in engineer entrepreneur looked around at what was happening to our public school system in california, and said these laws must be wrong. this must be illegal. this can't go on. he formed the group "students matter. students matter have been going back to an eclectic array of organizations, some liberal, some conservative. democrats, runs, to raise the funds to pursue a lawsuit like this. we've done some of our work pro bo bono. but it's been a partnership. i went to public schools. my law partners went to public schools. we want to create a platform for every kid to get an equal shot at a successful and fulfilling life. and dale welsh and students matter set out to do that. i think we're going to win on appeal. one thing about trials you get to put on the evidence cross-examine witnesses and i think the constitution of california will trump those laws and we'll win on appeal. we feel good where we are. and we hope that it helps the state of california and nationwide. >> are you prepared to fight an up hill battle to defend what your teachers have had for a long time. >> we have a long road to go. we are confident that the evidence is overwhelming, that these statutes don't deny equal access. but more importantly we're going to continue to work hard, to educate kids, to explain these issues with are at times quite complicated. i will finally just say and just repeating the point that dana made earlier. if getting rid of seniority in due process were magic elicksers, then why is it that states like florida, georgia, louisiana, other anti-labor states are not models of equity or academic excellence. the reason they are not is there are other profound issues than simply these protections for teachers that shape how kids are educated, and they have to do with poverty, funding for education, and a whole slew of other issues that these folks, frankly, can talk about, but are unwilling to act upon whereas the teacher unions, we fight to bring resources to the classroom. we actually put our mouth into practice. so i'm confident at the end of the day that we're going to be victorious. >> we're at the end of our town. joshua, dana, ted, great to talk to you all. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> that brings us to the end of this edition of inside story. thanks for being with us. the program may be over but the conversation continues. we want to hear what you think about the issues raised on this or any day's show. you can log on to our facebook page. you can send us your thoughts on twitter. our handle is aj inside story am or reach me directly at ray suarez news. see you for the next inside story in washington. i'm ray suarez. . >> the man accused of leading the bengahzi attack yo with the libyan ambassador was killed is taken to washington. hello, you're watching al jazeera. also on the program its zero our and battle for iraq. the government launches an offensive to take back rebel-held areas. bp said hundreds of millions of dollars were
>> hello, i'm ray suarez. a confident superior court judge decided that a state system of teacher turn hurts kids. the decision used in estimate 1% to 3% of teachers are ineffective, and in a huge state of california that means thousands of educators. since most of those ineffective teachers, the judge reasoned too much in low income schools, if you give them the job protection offered by tenure you're hurting poor and minority students. teacher tenure is an constitution, and it helped professionalize and depoliticize k through 12 education. fast forward 100 years, teacher's unions and tenure rules are not portrayed as helpful but road blocks. the tenure rules would not take investigate after the judge's ruling survives an appeal. but when something this big happens in california, it's news and likely will have an impact elsewhere. >> the judge ruled that california's teacher tenure laws deprive students of a quality education service and violate the civil rights under state constitution. the judge used strong language saying the statutes disproportionately effect poor and minority students and the evidence is coming. indeed, it shocks the conscience. >> there were certain teach urgency you knew if you were stuck in their class you wouldn't learn a thing. that year would be a lost year. if we learned what education is it makes no sense that we wouldn't make sure that every kid has a good teacher every year. >> that case is calls vagara verse california. their effort is backed by the non-profit group students matter funded by silicon valley magnate david welsh. teachers are allowed to apply for tenure after two years, they asked the last in first out regardless teachers are good or not, times with the least time on the job are the first to lose their jobs in budget cuts. arnie duncan hailed the judge's ruling saying that it could help dozens of students who are hurt. it has long pitted teachers unions against reformers. three states in the district o district of columbia have limited tenure. it's one that is fun to watch and could have an impact nationwide. >> does it follow that making it easier to fire teachers would help poor and minority kids get an enter education? is the custom governing the work rules of employees work as something that qualifies as an equal protection case. is it as hard as some will tell you to get rid of a bad teacher, and how should a new teacher get job protection after two years in the classroom? is that good policy? all these questions are at the heart of the debate in the tea teacher tenure challenge. dana goll steen, the our thorough of "the teacher wars." jonathan is president of the california federation of teachers, and ted is the lead attorney for the student plaintiffs in the california teachers tenure case. joshua, how does tenure work in california? if i'm a first- or second-year teacher is there a trigger date in which i'll become protected by that tenure? >> yes, that's a good question, ray . your first two years you're a temporary teacher, you could be dismissed any time during those first two years without any explanation, and many teachers are let go after their first year for, for example, the administration says we don't want you back. those first two years your probationary teacher. the administration decides you should move on then to permanent status you do that, but it should be clear, i want to make clear that at no time is this a lifetime guarantee of a job. it simply entitles you to due process once you pass your probationary period to decide whether you should move onto the next phase. you still are evaluated on a regular basis after your second year. >> but even in your third year of teaching you're still pretty young in the profession. should you already be fared that kind of protection, the threshold being raised much higher to move you out if you're not doing a good job? >> so this was a key part of their argument. i spent more than 20 years in an inner city high school in los angeles. i saw a lot and interviewed a lot of beginning teachers. i was a mentor to many. frankly, we could tell pretty early on whether that particular adult should be working with young people. it can happen quickly. it can certainly happen in two years. it just means that administration has to come in, visit your classroom on a regular basis, assess whether you have the make up to work with young people. you have the patience, not all adults have that patience. but i do think it can happen relatively quickly, and it certainly can happen in two years. >> ted, you went to court to argue that this wasn't working for california kids. you havwhat's the problem? joshua makes a straightforward argument for how it operates at present. >> joshua described a system that we don't have in california. what judge troy found, tenure can be made in less than 18 months before they have finished their training. once they're given permanent employment. that's what it's called. it triggers these arduous arbitrary 20-step process to dismiss a teacher that everyone would agree is grossly ineffective, not teaching students. that creates a circle where those grossly ineffective teachers can't be dismissed. it can take years, two to ten years, hundreds of thousands of dollarsers those teachers stay in the classroom. they disproportionately end up in low and low minority school districts. those kids lose years of learning, lifetime earning capacity goes down. it's not even close. it's an irrational law that is creating disparity in our school season. >> dana, were you convinced that from what you saw that these ineffective teachers were ending up heavily concentrated in poor and minority schools? >> there are effective and ineffective teachers in all sorts of schools that teach amen sorts of kids. i don't think there is rain doubt that ineffective and inexperienced teachers are clustered in low income schools. i think the question to ask is why is that that, and whether nullifying these laws will solve the problem. >> california is not the first step arguing over teen your and moving on ineffective teachers. i know the boards of education that i've covered in new york, chicago, elsewhere, how come tenure is such a widespread phenomenon? where did it start in the first place? wasn't it thought of as a good move in the first place? >> it dates back to 1909 when school reformers looked at europe and in particular germany, and they looked at german teachers who were thought to be higher performing teachers had tenure, and tha it was agreed that we should have tenure i in a profession that does not pay very well, that it would apractice people to the profession. since then it has never stopped being controversial. it's important to realize when the obama administration took office, two-thirds had weakened their tenure laws. california was a state that did not do that earlier on. what we see with the ruling in california, california sort of catching up to this debate that had a been going on in other states in the past five years. >> we're going to take a short break. when we come back we'll talk more about the fact that in many ways this was simply an equal protection case. what is it about teaching and the vulnerability of poor and minority students that makes the california decision such a hard fought case? stay with us. this is inside story. >> every saturday join us for exclusive, revealing, and surprising talks with the most interesting people of our time. rosie perez >> i had to fight back, or else my ass was gonna get kicked... >> a tough childhood... >> there was a crying, there was a lot of laughter... >> finding her voice >> i was not a ham, i was ham & cheese... >> and turning it around... >> you don't have to let your circumstance dictate who you are as a person >> talk to al jazeera only on al jazeera america >> a lot of these mining sites are restricted >> a silent killer... >> it's got a lot of arsenic in it >> you know your water's bad, and you know you're sick >> unheard victims... >> 90% of the people will have some type of illness from the water. >> where could it happen next? >> i mean they took away my life... fault lines... al jazeera america's hard hitting... >> they're locking the door... ground breaking... >> we have to get out of here... truth seeking... >> award winning, investigative, documentary series. water for coal only on al jazeera america >> welcome back to "inside story" on al jazeera america. i'm ray suarez. through the long history of the national debates about schools and quality of education a lot of plane and attention has been aimed at teachers. the california tenure system makes it very hard and time-consuming and costly to fire an ineffective teacher. in the court case of vagara versus the state of california, a judge decided that the tenure cit system has to go. was it proven, can it be proven in court that a tenure system lands more heavily on the backs of kids who need what public schooling has to offer the most? >> as judge troy found the evidence was overwhelming. really, the unions and state admitted first low income and minority kids were getting a disproportionate number of grossly ineffective teachers. and it shows if a kid gets a grossly ineffective teacher for one year, they lose a year of their life. and the grossly ineffective teachers were being shuttled in the low income and minority school districts. it wasn't even a close call in terms of the evidence. and the other thing that is special about california is our constitution includes a fundamental right to quality education. and education is really the launching pad, the platform for kids succeed in life, society, and across the board and to have low income and minority kids getting the brunt of thighs laws. our experts were harvard, stanford from around the country testifyin testifying that these laws have a direct appreciable impact on kids in, that's what the judge found and the evidence was powerful. we do have control group . is the situation much better in collective bargaining? >> no, student achievement is lower in states that don't have collective bargaining than those that do have collective bargaining. that said, tenure exists in even in states that don't have collective bargaining. tenure pre-committees collective bargaining and as i said it dates back to 1909. collective barkin collective bargaining dates back to the 60's . what weather would good teachers come from if we get rid of bad teachers. i don't think it makes sense to give a teacher tenure after 18 months. i think we need two or three years. teachers in surveys say they're willing to wait five years. i think that's interesting that teachers say that. we do know from evidence when jobs are open in the poorest performing schools the great teachers do not rush to fill those jobs. there is data from all over the country that principals have a hugely difficult time to fill these jobs. even when teachers are given $20,000 bonuses. 75% of the great teachers say no thanks, i don't want the extra money. i don't want to work in a struggling school. it's not just hard to fire teachers, but it's hard to hire teachers and it's important to remember that part of the equation. >> had a about the members who have nothing to fear from the loss of tenure, are they rushing to the barricades to defend their brothers and sisters who might be rated ineffective teachers? >> well, what we're rushing to do is, number one, argue that our rights are not in conflict with the right of students . teachers who have a right to advocate for kids. teachers who have a right to stand up and say we should not be testing here, spending money here. those give us the ability to be good teachers and we're fighting to protect that right. i would challenge the notion that some how these under performing teachers some how flock to poor schools. teachers don't decides where they're going to get hired. districts decide where they're going to place teachers, and if it's the case that teachers with some seniority decide to move to other parts of the city, they do so because the conditions in those schools are very challenging. >> why keep it? give me the case for keeping it? what as a mechanism would be lost if teacher tenure was removed. >> i want to get into this because this is key. what these folks would like to do is to create a system that evaluates teachers based on test scores. that's the only mechanism they can find to evaluate literally thousands of teachers in a school district. in l.a. you have 35,000 teachers. and when teachers are laid off you have to assess teachers one through 35,000. we already have 10, 15, 20 years of seeing an educational te system deformed by test scores. it has narrowed curriculum, pushed out music, incentivized cheating and disrupts what we do in the classroom. while it may not an effective way of determining who comes and who goes, it's better than all the other methods including subjective evaluation. using how we fire teachers as a way of driving education reform is wrongheaded. this decision is not going to put an additional pencil in any child's hand. there is no additional school books. no additional funding. it's not going to bring any librarians to schools. the notion that we're going to fire our way to educational excellence is ludicrous. >> being able to get rid of ineffective teachers is not going to help you one bit in addressing the other structural problems in education in california. >> two things, ray. first, we're not talking about firing our way to excellence. we're talking about grossly ineffective teachers who are harming kids every day . everyone greed. experts on the other side agreed, grossly ineffective teachers are in classrooms and harm children. that's one piece of it. the other piece of it is we're not talking about i monolithic looking at test scores, but a variety of things. in-class performance, observation, are kids doing better. that would be one factor. the other part of the law that the judge struck down is the law that fires teachers without looking at how they're doing their job. if they're doing a great job they still get fired. does our case resolve every issue, no. >> when we come back we'll talk about the prospects going forward for california and for tenured teachers everywhere. this is inside story. stay with us. >> i'm ali velshi, the news has become this thing where you talk to experts about people, and al jazeera has really tried to talk to people, about their stories. we are not meant to be your first choice for entertainment. we are ment to be your first choice for the news. america mobile app, available for your apple and android mobile device. download it now >> you're watching inside story on al jazeera america. i'm ray suarez. teacher teen your on this edition of the program in california the system that protects teachers jobs have been challenged by a judge's decision to cra scrap the decision to offer tenure using the last hi hired, first fired, and making it difficult to let a teacher go. >> dana, the democratic party and leading democratic elected officials are often portrayed as being in lock step with the teacher's unions joined at the hip and so on. why the as we heard arnie duncan supported the decision. other democratic elected officials have. is this not always cleaving needly and logically along partisan lines? >> it's not really a partisan issue any more, and that idea that the democratic party is in lock step with the teacher's union is an old idea an it's not relevant. president obama and other high profile democrats across the country, whether it's corey booker , rahm emmanuel, the mayor in chicago, all these people are all considered critics, sometimes harsh critics of tea teachers' unions. it will be interesting to see what happens in the lex presidential election. hillary clinton when she ran in 2007-2008, she got both of those major teachers unions endorsements because she's less critical of teacher's unions. whether she makes more nice with the unions than president obama has. >> jerry brown has depicted a friend of the unions. california is an union friendly state traditionally as well. is this going to stand? does this have a shot on appeal? >> i--yes, i'm not an expert on california politics. i would be interested in the thoughts of the other two guests. jerry brown has been more sympathetic to the unions. this is a blow to the unions on friendly turf. >> who is backing your side? i know you were working on behalf of students plaintiffs. i doubt they had a cookie sail or a bake sail at one of their classrooms to pay their fees. who made sure whose case got proud. who is paying your hourlies? >> it's a great american story. a man named dave welsh in engineer entrepreneur looked around at what was happening to our public school system in california, and said these laws must be wrong. this must be illegal. this can't go on. he formed the group "students matter. students matter have been going back to an eclectic array of organizations, some liberal, some conservative. democrats, runs, to raise the funds to pursue a lawsuit like this. we've done some of our work pro bo bono. but it's been a partnership. i went to public schools. my law partners went to public schools. we want to create a platform for every kid to get an equal shot at a successful and fulfilling life. and dale welsh and students matter set out to do that. i think we're going to win on appeal. one thing about trials you get to put on the evidence cross-examine witnesses and i think the constitution of california will trump those laws and we'll win on appeal. we feel good where we are. and we hope that it helps the state of california and nationwide. >> are you prepared to fight an up hill battle to defend what your teachers have had for a long time. >> we have a long road to go. we are confident that the evidence is overwhelming, that these statutes don't deny equal access. but more importantly we're going to continue to work hard, to educate kids, to explain these issues with are at times quite complicated. i will finally just say and just repeating the point that dana made earlier. if getting rid of seniority in due process were magic elicksers, then why is it that states like florida, georgia, louisiana, other anti-labor states are not models of equity or academic excellence. the reason they are not is there are other profound issues than simply these protections for teachers that shape how kids are educated, and they have to do with poverty, funding for education, and a whole slew of other issues that these folks, frankly, can talk about, but are unwilling to act upon whereas the teacher unions, we fight to bring resources to the classroom. we actually put our mouth into practice. so i'm confident at the end of the day that we're going to be victorious. >> we're at the end of our town. joshua, dana, ted, great to talk to you all. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> that brings us to the end of this edition of inside story. thanks for being with us. the program may be over but the conversation continues. we want to hear what you think about the issues raised on this or any day's show. you can log on to our facebook page. you can send us your thoughts on twitter. our handle is aj inside story am or reach me directly at ray suarez news. see you for the next inside story in washington. i'm ray suarez. >> on "america tonightmentment" a rising tide of trouble. rushes of water so great it's killed people in their homes and sent divers searching the streets for survivors. what's behind the growing number of devastating flash floods. one hint: it's not just rain but what's under foot. pot. at the intersection of states pushing the frontiers of marijuana legislation, idaho just says no. >> okay in washington or colorado or oregon or whatever
the decision used in estimate 1% to 3% of teachers are ineffective, and in a huge state of california that means thousands of educators. since most of those ineffective teachers, the judge reasoned too much in low income schools, if you give them the job protection offered by tenure you're hurting poor and minority students. teacher tenure is an constitution, and it helped professionalize and depoliticize k through 12 education. fast forward 100 years, teacher's unions and tenure rules are not portrayed as helpful but road blocks. the tenure rules would not take investigate after the judge's ruling survives an appeal. but when something this big happens in california, it's news and likely will have an impact elsewhere. >> the judge ruled that california's teacher tenure laws deprive students of a quality education service and violate the civil rights under state constitution. the judge used strong language saying the statutes disproportionately effect poor and minority students and the evidence is coming. indeed, it shocks the conscience. >> there were certain teach urgency you knew if you were stuck in their class you wouldn't learn a thing. that year would be a lost year. if we learned what education is it makes no sense that we wouldn't make sure that every kid has a good teacher every year. >> that case is calls vagara verse california. their effort is backed by the non-profit group students matter funded by silicon valley magnate david welsh. teachers are allowed to apply for tenure after two years, they asked the last in first out regardless teachers are good or not, times with the least time on the job are the first to lose their jobs in budget cuts. arnie duncan hailed the judge's ruling saying that it could help dozens of students who are hurt. it has long pitted teachers unions against reformers. three states in the district o district of columbia have limited tenure. it's one that is fun to watch and could have an impact nationwide. >> does it follow that making it easier to fire teachers would help poor and minority kids get an enter education? is the custom governing the work rules of employees work as something that qualifies as an equal protection case. is it as hard as some will tell you to get rid of a bad teacher, and how should a new teacher get job protection after two years in the classroom? is that good policy? all these questions are at the heart of the debate in the tea teacher tenure challenge. dana goll steen, the our thorough of "the teacher wars." jonathan is president of the california federation of teachers, and ted is the lead attorney for the student plaintiffs in the california teachers tenure case. joshua, how does tenure work in california? if i'm a first- or second-year teacher is there a trigger date in which i'll become protected by that tenure? >> yes, that's a good question, ray . your first two years you're a temporary teacher, you could be dismissed any time during those first two years without any explanation, and many teachers are let go after their first year for, for example, the administration says we don't want you back. those first two years your probationary teacher. the administration decides you should move on then to permanent status you do that, but it should be clear, i want to make clear that at no time is this a lifetime guarantee of a job. it simply entitles you to due process once you pass your probationary period to decide whether you should move onto the next phase. you still are evaluated on a regular basis after your second year. >> but even in your third year of teaching you're still pretty young in the profession. should you already be fared that kind of protection, the threshold being raised much higher to move you out if you're not doing a good job? >> so this was a key part of their argument. i spent more than 20 years in an inner city high school in los angeles. i saw a lot and interviewed a lot of beginning teachers. i was a mentor to many. frankly, we could tell pretty early on whether that particular adult should be working with young people. it can happen quickly. it can certainly happen in two years. it just means that administration has to come in, visit your classroom on a regular basis, assess whether you have the make up to work with young people. you have the patience, not all adults have that patience. but i do think it can happen relatively quickly, and it certainly can happen in two years. >> ted, you went to court to argue that this wasn't working for california kids. you havwhat's the problem? joshua makes a straightforward argument for how it operates at present. >> joshua described a system that we don't have in california. what judge troy found, tenure can be made in less than 18 months before they have finished their training. once they're given permanent employment. that's what it's called. it triggers these arduous arbitrary 20-step process to dismiss a teacher that everyone would agree is grossly ineffective, not teaching students. that creates a circle where those grossly ineffective teachers can't be dismissed. it can take years, two to ten years, hundreds of thousands of dollarsers those teachers stay in the classroom. they disproportionately end up in low and low minority school districts. those kids lose years of learning, lifetime earning capacity goes down. it's not even close. it's an irrational law that is creating disparity in our school season. >> dana, were you convinced that from what you saw that these ineffective teachers were ending up heavily concentrated in poor and minority schools? >> there are effective and ineffective teachers in all sorts of schools that teach amen sorts of kids. i don't think there is rain doubt that ineffective and inexperienced teachers are clustered in low income schools. i think the question to ask is why is that that, and whether nullifying these laws will solve the problem. >> california is not the first step arguing over teen your and moving on ineffective teachers. i know the boards of education that i've covered in new york, chicago, elsewhere, how come tenure is such a widespread phenomenon? where did it start in the first place? wasn't it thought of as a good move in the first place? >> it dates back to 1909 when school reformers looked at europe and in particular germany, and they looked at german teachers who were thought to be higher performing teachers had tenure, and tha it was agreed that we should have tenure i in a profession that does not pay very well, that it would apractice people to the profession. since then it has never stopped being controversial. it's important to realize when the obama administration took office, two-thirds had weakened their tenure laws. california was a state that did not do that earlier on. what we see with the ruling in california, california sort of catching up to this debate that had a been going on in other states in the past five years. >> we're going to take a short break. when we come back we'll talk more about the fact that in many ways this was simply an equal protection case. what is it about teaching and the vulnerability of poor and minority students that makes the california decision such a hard fought case? stay with us. this is inside story. i think that al jazeera helps connect people in a way they haven't been connected before. it's a new approach to journalism. this is an opportunity for americans to learn something. we need to know what's going on around the world. we need to know what's going on in our back yard and i think al jazeera does just that. >> now available, the new al jazeea america mobile news app. get our exclusive in depth, reporting when you want it. a global perspective wherever you are. the major headlines in context. mashable says... you'll never miss the latest news >> they will continue looking for survivors... >> the potential for energy production is huge... >> no noise, no clutter, just real reporting. the new al jazeera america mobile app, available for your apple and android mobile device. download it now >> welcome back to "inside story" on al jazeera america. i'm ray suarez. through the long history of the national debates about schools and quality of education a lot of plane and attention has been aimed at teachers. the california tenure system makes it very hard and time-consuming and costly to fire an ineffective teacher. in the court case of vagara versus the state of california, a judge decided that the tenure cit system has to go. was it proven, can it be proven in court that a tenure system lands more heavily on the backs of kids who need what public schooling has to offer the most? >> as judge troy found the evidence was overwhelming. really, the unions and state admitted first low income and minority kids were getting a disproportionate number of grossly ineffective teachers. and it shows if a kid gets a grossly ineffective teacher for one year, they lose a year of their life. and the grossly ineffective teachers were being shuttled in the low income and minority school districts. it wasn't even a close call in terms of the evidence. and the other thing that is special about california is our constitution includes a fundamental right to quality education. and education is really the launching pad, the platform for kids succeed in life, society, and across the board and to have low income and minority kids getting the brunt of thighs laws. our experts were harvard, stanford from around the country testifyin testifying that these laws have a direct appreciable impact on kids in, that's what the judge found and the evidence was powerful. we do have control group . is the situation much better in collective bargaining? >> no, student achievement is lower in states that don't have collective bargaining than those that do have collective bargaining. that said, tenure exists in even in states that don't have collective bargaining. tenure pre-committees collective bargaining and as i said it dates back to 1909. collective barkin collective bargaining dates back to the 60's . what weather would good teachers come from if we get rid of bad teachers. i don't think it makes sense to give a teacher tenure after 18 months. i think we need two or three years. teachers in surveys say they're willing to wait five years. i think that's interesting that teachers say that. we do know from evidence when jobs are open in the poorest performing schools the great teachers do not rush to fill those jobs. there is data from all over the country that principals have a hugely difficult time to fill these jobs. even when teachers are given $20,000 bonuses. 75% of the great teachers say no thanks, i don't want the extra money. i don't want to work in a struggling school. it's not just hard to fire teachers, but it's hard to hire teachers and it's important to remember that part of the equation. >> had a about the members who have nothing to fear from the loss of tenure, are they rushing to the barricades to defend their brothers and sisters who might be rated ineffective teachers? >> well, what we're rushing to do is, number one, argue that our rights are not in conflict with the right of students . teachers who have a right to advocate for kids. teachers who have a right to stand up and say we should not be testing here, spending money here. those give us the ability to be good teachers and we're fighting to protect that right. i would challenge the notion that some how these under performing teachers some how flock to poor schools. teachers don't decides where they're going to get hired. districts decide where they're going to place teachers, and if it's the case that teachers with some seniority decide to move to other parts of the city, they do so because the conditions in those schools are very challenging. >> why keep it? give me the case for keeping it? what as a mechanism would be lost if teacher tenure was removed. >> i want to get into this because this is key. what these folks would like to do is to create a system that evaluates teachers based on test scores. that's the only mechanism they can find to evaluate literally thousands of teachers in a school district. in l.a. you have 35,000 teachers. and when teachers are laid off you have to assess teachers one through 35,000. we already have 10, 15, 20 years of seeing an educational te system deformed by test scores. it has narrowed curriculum, pushed out music, incentivized cheating and disrupts what we do in the classroom. while it may not an effective way of determining who comes and who goes, it's better than all the other methods including subjective evaluation. using how we fire teachers as a way of driving education reform is wrongheaded. this decision is not going to put an additional pencil in any child's hand. there is no additional school books. no additional funding. it's not going to bring any librarians to schools. the notion that we're going to fire our way to educational excellence is ludicrous. >> being able to get rid of ineffective teachers is not going to help you one bit in addressing the other structural problems in education in california. >> two things, ray. first, we're not talking about firing our way to excellence. we're talking about grossly ineffective teachers who are harming kids every day . everyone greed. experts on the other side agreed, grossly ineffective teachers are in classrooms and harm children. that's one piece of it. the other piece of it is we're not talking about i monolithic looking at test scores, but a variety of things. in-class performance, observation, are kids doing better. that would be one factor. the other part of the law that the judge struck down is the law that fires teachers without looking at how they're doing their job. if they're doing a great job they still get fired. does our case resolve every issue, no. >> when we come back we'll talk about the prospects going forward for california and for tenured teachers everywhere. this is inside story. stay with us. rail car borderland continues only on al jazeera america >> you're watching inside story on al jazeera america. i'm ray suarez. teacher teen your on this edition of the program in california the system that protects teachers jobs have been challenged by a judge's decision to cra scrap the decision to offer tenure using the last hi hired, first fired, and making it difficult to let a teacher go. >> dana, the democratic party and leading democratic elected officials are often portrayed as being in lock step with the teacher's unions joined at the hip and so on. why the as we heard arnie duncan supported the decision. other democratic elected officials have. is this not always cleaving needly and logically along partisan lines? >> it's not really a partisan issue any more, and that idea that the democratic party is in lock step with the teacher's union is an old idea an it's not relevant. president obama and other high profile democrats across the country, whether it's corey booker , rahm emmanuel, the mayor in chicago, all these people are all considered critics, sometimes harsh critics of tea teachers' unions. it will be interesting to see what happens in the lex presidential election. hillary clinton when she ran in 2007-2008, she got both of those major teachers unions endorsements because she's less critical of teacher's unions. whether she makes more nice with the unions than president obama has. >> jerry brown has depicted a friend of the unions. california is an union friendly state traditionally as well. is this going to stand? does this have a shot on appeal? >> i--yes, i'm not an expert on california politics. i would be interested in the thoughts of the other two guests. jerry brown has been more sympathetic to the unions. this is a blow to the unions on friendly turf. >> who is backing your side? i know you were working on behalf of students plaintiffs. i doubt they had a cookie sail or a bake sail at one of their classrooms to pay their fees. who made sure whose case got proud. who is paying your hourlies? >> it's a great american story. a man named dave welsh in engineer entrepreneur looked around at what was happening to our public school system in california, and said these laws must be wrong. this must be illegal. this can't go on. he formed the group "students matter. students matter have been going back to an eclectic array of organizations, some liberal, some conservative. democrats, runs, to raise the funds to pursue a lawsuit like this. we've done some of our work pro bo bono. but it's been a partnership. i went to public schools. my law partners went to public schools. we want to create a platform for every kid to get an equal shot at a successful and fulfilling life. and dale welsh and students matter set out to do that. i think we're going to win on appeal. one thing about trials you get to put on the evidence cross-examine witnesses and i think the constitution of california will trump those laws and we'll win on appeal. we feel good where we are. and we hope that it helps the state of california and nationwide. >> are you prepared to fight an up hill battle to defend what your teachers have had for a long time. >> we have a long road to go. we are confident that the evidence is overwhelming, that these statutes don't deny equal access. but more importantly we're going to continue to work hard, to educate kids, to explain these issues with are at times quite complicated. i will finally just say and just repeating the point that dana made earlier. if getting rid of seniority in due process were magic elicksers, then why is it that states like florida, georgia, louisiana, other anti-labor states are not models of equity or academic excellence. the reason they are not is there are other profound issues than simply these protections for teachers that shape how kids are educated, and they have to do with poverty, funding for education, and a whole slew of other issues that these folks, frankly, can talk about, but are unwilling to act upon whereas the teacher unions, we fight to bring resources to the classroom. we actually put our mouth into practice. so i'm confident at the end of the day that we're going to be victorious. >> we're at the end of our town. joshua, dana, ted, great to talk to you all. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> that brings us to the end of this edition of inside story. thanks for being with us. the program may be over but the conversation continues. we want to hear what you think about the issues raised on this or any day's show. you can log on to our facebook page. you can send us your thoughts on twitter. our handle is aj inside story am or reach me directly at ray suarez news. see you for the next inside story in washington. i'm ray suarez. >> iraq in turmoil. four children killed as the iraqi army launches tacks on fallujah. i'm sammy zaydaf with the top stories on al jazeera. ukraine takes more territory in the east, surrounding the last bastion of luhansk. more deaths on the first year anniversary of
in 1907. by 1908, he had scribbled on a little note somewhere. my precious one, my beloved mary. i don't think he sent it to her. i think he was venting her feelings. ellen was upset. she accused him of emotional love for this woman. but she tolerated mary and tried to protect woodrow from the scandal. there still was some scandal. theodore roosevelt was invited in the 1912 election to make use of this. somebody said that they had letters between woodrow and mary. and although they were never as ardent as his letters to ellen had been, they were simply compromising. and roosevelt said, no, that would be wrong. and also that nobody would believe him. >> yeah. because that was -- that was very noble of theodore roosevelt. but you said -- you said, what -- i can't believe that somebody who looks like the apoth care's cud could be romeo. i don't believe that. >> doing the best t.r. invitation on the program. >> no. this momentous on the united states and those who enter world war i. what happens in the white house in terms of their social, they're entertaining. what does she do to support the war effort. that's an important part of her story. would you talk about that? >> poor edith gets pitched into the white house in the middle of the war, in the middle of his term without any preparation whatsoever. and she was -- she really rose to the occasion. and she was, as i said, very pop yue wlar the press because of ellen's ill health, the press had not been very taken with her. and edith had the doubly trying situation of having to have two receptions because she couldn't have all of the warring ambassadors with each other. so she had to have a party for the outlies and the party for the central powers. she really was terrific and everybody was impressed with her good firm hand shake. and very impressed with her sense of style, no poor little brown dress for edith. >> she was a wealthy washington socialite and a business executive. >> i wouldn't say she was a socialite. her husband had been in trade, meaning he was a businessman. and that was not the creme de la creme of washington society. so there was a certain amount of dubiousness about that. but as john said, there were scandals also to the extent to which she and woodrow had been intimate. later on she makes a big protest, a big international scandal, really, out of refusing to accept the designated british ambassador because the assistant was telling naughty stories about him. >> back to the wilson house on s street in washington, d.c. >> we are in the library at the wilson house with bob inholm, the executive director. you can see some of the artifacts in this room from wilson. but there are a couple of things in here that are very related to edith and woodrow wilson. why don't you tell us what this is on the desk. >> we display the pen that was used to sign the declaration of war in 1917. what i think is interesting is that it's edith wilson's pen. we've been discussing on the program that it was very much with the president participated in his dligss on a variety of issues. when the declaration of war was passed by congress, the president was with edith and not near a pen of his own and she offered one of hers to sign that historic document. we have that here. we know that edith was part of the president's regular routine in dealing with the policy issues and the business of government. every day after dinner, he would retire to the office in the white house, the president's office. and go through his drawer, i might think of it as an inbox. you can see this is a box with the lock and key with the president's important papers to be delivered to him. and then he would be able to go through them. the president and mrs. wilson would go through the papers tofgt. it was her habit to put them in order. they would decipher together coded messages. so it's interesting that this lays the groundwork for her role as steward of the presidency when the president was -- >> our guest back on the set had been talking about edith and ellen wilson. what do you think of the legacy on edith wilson? what is the legacy of edith wilson? >> i think the most important thing that edith wilson did was to bring the role of the first lady into the modern era in the sense that she supported the president and was aware of some of the issues that he was involved with. and my take on her role in the stuartship is a little different from some, because i think that her -- her authority within the government relied almost entirely on the president's affection for her, trust for her, respect for her. i think you wouldn't expect that she would betray that trust in order to go to the cabinet or the vice president or someone else. so i think she had that important role of being the help meet to the president in a very modern way. >> we're at the wilson house in northwest d.c. this is where edith wilson lived postpresidency until 1961 when she died in this house. we've got one more visit here. and it's kind of a special guest that we'ref going to introduce you to in a little while. >> thanks, bob for bringing us to the wilson house tonight and showing some of it to the viewing public. well, we should say that when woodrow womenson makes a decision to the war, he goes all in. you write about a fact that what america could contribute was manpower to this? >> yeah, well, i mean, it was a stalemate. although russia collapsed. and the bolsheviks when they came in, lennon's policy was peace at any price. he paid a terrible price. but this meant that the germans could finally fight the battle they wanted to fight, the war they wanted to fight. they do the frank oppression war over again. so they could throw everything at france. that's what they had a chance to do in the spring of 1918. and it's a race against time for us to get the dough boys there. now, the british and the french, bless their hearts, held on that one last time and locked that german offensive. but they were able to do it because they knew that the yanks are coming. that materiel money, we bailed them out. they were bankrupt at the time, we were able to bail them out. >> provided the dough boys, the foot soldiers, and the "dough". >> yes. >> how many casualties in the war? >> 140,000. >> and what was our -- when was in a? >> november 11, 1918. >> and then wilson moved from war president to peacemaker. >> peacemaker in chief, that's right. he decided early he was going to go parls and be our chief negotiator because he wanted to shape the peace as best he could there. he knew we had come into the war later than the others and for different reasons. and he knew there were real differences. >> is travel with him on that trip. want to take a call on it and have you come back and talk to us about how that was staged and how important it was ultimately to the peace that was shaped. lewis, los angeles, you're on the air, welcome. >> yes, my question is what was or how was the league of nation s a -- was it a triumph for the president or a failure to the president wilson and how did mrs. wilson take it? because she left it a little longer. she went a little longer than president wilson. how was it on their legacy that the league of nations failed? thank you. >> it's both, a triumph and a failure. it was terrific. and then we never joined the league of nations. that's what happened in world war ii, there is a prophet of woodrow wilson. there's the prophet we did not heed. here was the man who predicted this. if we had listened to him, we wouldn't have had this terrible second war. i think that's quite overdrawn. but still there's a kernel of truth to that. i mean it's hard to imagine that we wouldn't have played at least some kind of more constructive role in world affairs if we had gone into the league of nations. >> and edith was after woodrow's death very active with the league of nations herself. not in the leadership way, but she used to go to geneva every year for her meetings and she would go to any country in the league that wanted to honor woodrow for his work and bringing it together. >> united nations week. we're going do this. all of the world leaders are gathering in new york city. >> if it had not been for edith and woodrow had resigned, we might have joined the leaping. >> yeah. the warped judgment of his that would not compromise. if he had resigned, some kind of something to get him out of the way, we would have joined the league. we would have joined it on a conditional basis with a lot of hedging. it would be openly stating what all of the other nations were doing anyway. but it would have gotten us into a leadership role in world affairs, a generation before we did. that's what was lost. a generation of experience and world leadership. >> we hope you saw the beginning. edith wilson made a critical decision with the advice of the doctors to keep him in the white house and to serve as the gatekeeper as to him and keep the affairs of state going during the years when really this month he was very, very critically ill. i don't think it was with the doctors' consent. >> no. >> not a bit. >> and in october, he wrote a -- a memo that should he be subpoenaed to congress, he wanted to have something on paper early on saying that he did not -- saying exactly what was wrong with the president. >> her memoirs, i read citations that doctors advised to him. >> of course to you, i said to you the memoirs were fanciful. she was her on public relations expert. >> edward winestein, a distinguished neurologist wrote a medical biography of wilson. he said in there takes it straight on, edith said, the doctors said, no, keep him in office. he said no responsible physician would have said that. she was making that up. >> how about that. i asked about her -- if their trip to europe as the great peacemaker -- they travelled by ocean liner to get there on a very specific day in december. what was the wilson as presidential couple arriving there. how were they received by heads of state. how was it that went on there. >> they were received in england in terms that would have been accorded to royalty. and everywhere they went, they were cheered by the pop pop yue lace. but in the beginning, it was wonderful. but once the negotiations got under way, she went from a fairy tale existence to being extremely concerned for wilson's high blood pressure. he had had some kind of episode when he was 39 years old where he had a lot of numbness in his hand. he had very high blood pressure. all of his adult life or at least from the age of 39 on wards. kerry grayson was insistent he get a lot of exercise and rest. in the negotiations, he couldn't rest or exercise. edith would try to get him to go for a walk. and the woman who was with her, her secretary, said that she eres would never go out if there was a possibility that she would be able to take woodrow for a walk. but it was not enough. >> came back, he embarked on the multi-city tour the the united states to the concept of the league of nations to the people of the united states, ultimately leading to his exhaustion and the stroke we spoke about earlier. we have only 15 minutes left in our program. so we're going to have to compress a lot of history in that time. we're going to return to the wilson house and introduce you to a member of the family. >> kerry fuller from westchester, new york. what's your relationship? >> my great aunt. >> how much time did you spent in the wilson house growing up? >> a lot of time, not only visiting my great aunt, but my grandfather and my great uncle. >> only relatives of edith wilson's still alive. >> right. >> what was it like to visit with aunt edith. >> it was called playing cards. we came over, we had a good meal. we played cards. prompted by my mother to let her win every once in a while. she was a fierce woman in terms of winning. >> kinasta? >> that was the game. that was easy to let her win if i held the cards and let her go out. >> these are the card boxes that you would use. >> the cards are on the table. the table is over here. >> over here in the library. kerry fuller, did she talk about being first lady, what it was like? >> no, it was very interesting. she rarely referred to the past. if she did, she would refer to woodrow wilson as the president. but there were no past memories, really. it was interesting. >> there were special visitors while you were here? >> no, not while i was in the family. she loved her family so much. she spent a lot of time with them. >> here in the house, the postpresidency house, she would take in the family. >> yes. my grandfather, husband, and her sister died here in the house. >> did she ever talk about ellen? >> never. but i mean that wouldn't have come up. you know, seeing ellen wilson's picture in the house is sort of funny. it just -- it was not a part of what we would have discussed. >> what about jackie kennedy? >> i was close to jackie kennedy, sitting in the car and let manage i mother and aunt in the house. i was not here. i was waiting to pick them up afterwards. >> that's when she was first lady, is that correct? >> she was first lady. edith is what she wanted us to call her. she was so excited about john kennedy and that presidency. she got to live to see it was, you know, wonderful. >> kerry fuller, we're here on the main level of the house, up one staircase from the entrance. where would you sleep when you were visiting here. >> upstairs. only twice did i stay here for the night. there's a room between her room and the president's. there's two occasions. >> so three of you are left. is there any -- are you active in an edith wilson family at all? i mean is there any -- >> not so much with the family, but certainly with the wilson house and also with the birthplace so i'm involved with both of those, which is wonderful. >> kerry fuller of westchester, new york is here with us. upper northwest dc. and we want to thank bob inhome and his staff for allowing us to come in with the cameras and showing you a few of the artifacts here. >> thank you so much. she made it to john kennedy's inauguration? >> made it to 1961. she was going to dedicate the woodrow wilson bridge that all of us who live in washington noel. she was going to dedicate it on his birthday. she was 89 and contracted pneumonia and she couldn't make it. she died on his birth date. >> woodrow wilson center that's active in this town, when did that get started. >> that gets started -- excuse me, that gets start in the 1960s -- i think it was authorized under kennedy. >> yeah. >> he -- he authorized the commission? >> right. >> and that it gets started -- the late 1960s. he was in the old smithsonian building. it was oddly enough the little reagan building. and there -- i think that's a very fitting memorial to wilson. it really does bring together scholars and policy makers. and wilson was no ivory tower. he believed that scholarships, that learning should be brought to bear in public affairs. that was himself. i mean, this man took the lessons that he had learned, the insights that he'd gotten from the study of politics and put them in to practice. this is a man who got a chance to practice what he had been preaching all along. and i said this a number of times, people think it's hyperbole, it isn't. i don't know of any other career in american history or any other history that i can think of, that better justifies the study of politics as a preparation for the practice of politics than woodrow wilson's. >> in chill relsz, virginia, you're on the air? >> yes. yes. i'd like to make a comment. this woman, edith bolling wilson, is a appalachian woman. the first -- the first and only appalachian woman to become first lady. and i wonder if the experts would be interested in commenting on her appalachian role as care giver and the fact she was a care giver for the president and on to his legacy and really might be responsible for a lot of the legacy that president wilson has in our national history? >> i don't know that being an appalachian woman made her stand out at that time in america. i think men and women to a certain degree are the principle care givers of family members. edith -- ellen came from rome, georgia which might nickly be called appalachian also. she was interested in the appalachian mountain craft. she remodelled part of the white house, the president's room with quilts and hangings and fabricings. she set up a scholarship fund there in memory of her brother with her earnings that she got from her paintings. i kind of feel she was the one who focussed more on the appalachian 2345i chur or characterern more than edith did. >> as we finish up here, i want to frame her life. she met woodrow wilson just shortly after ellen died. he proposed very soon. she became first lady. very quickly, without much preparation for the role. how soon after that did he become ill? and then how well did she take care of him? >> well, she was president -- she was first lady to a functioning president about 4 1/2 years and she feels nurse maid to a president another 4 1/2 years. >> then he lived for how long also incapacitated after he left the white house? >> that would include the time she was incapacitated. >> just under three years all together. >> he dies when? >> february 4th, 1924? >> and then how is he memorialized at his death in this city? was there a big public funeral? >> oh, yeah. it's really quite lovely. they had -- they -- edith, president coolidge offered at the capitol to have a state funeral. she declined. they had a service at the house. presided over by the presbytarian clergymen and the bishop, the washington bishop. edith is episcopalian. she did not change to be a presbytarian when she married him and he made no push for her to do that. the procession up massachusetts avenue to the cathedral. there's the interment there. in those days, there wasn't too much in that cathedral. his tomb was moved up interestingly enough in the centennial year of his birth, 1956, up to -- then finished -- finished a principal part of the cathedral. so it's a -- it's a -- it's a lovely ceremony. and to me one of the nicest touches was that when the funeral was -- at the end of the service, a bugler played "taps." they had a hookup to arlington. they knew the exact moment so that the bu galler from arlington also played "taps". >> she lives how long after she died? >> 37 years. an extraordinarily long time. he dies in 1924 and she dies at 1961. >> what was her life like? >> she spent the rest of the life being woodrow wilson's widow. she tried to interhis legacy. she chose the first biographer. she controlled the access to papers very, very closely. she controlled how his image was portrayed. she wrote her own memoir. as i said, with her own spin on it. she collaborated with darryl to make the movie about wilson. she really had the tight rein on what he feels allowed to do. but to me the most important thing that she did was she supported something that he had supported during his lifetime, the woodrow wilson commission, is it call? >> foundation? >> foundation. >> and they helped to create the united nations and they also collect these papers that arthur link and his team edited so there are 69 volumes of woodrow wilson's letters and other significant papers, many of the letters in the first ladies, even letters from mary peck. and i think that's -- that's her biggest legacy. >> we have video that was film of francis cleveland and edith at a prince ton university. you tell us the story? >> i don't know the story about the them. at the bicentennial of prince ton, 200 years. they gathered all of the living first ladies together. and mrs. cleveland, who whuz much younger than grover cleveland had lived in prince ton. so she was there. and there was edith and that's truman. i don't know if eleanor roosevelt was there. they tried to have them all. but there's a president of president truman with these three first ladies. yeah. >> i know that ellen wilson had to entertain theodore roosevelt at an army-navy game when woodrow was president of prince ton. and she did contact frances cleveland for advice on how to entertain ex-presidents. >> did she go back to the white house? >> who? >> edith. did she ever go back to the white house again? >> i don't know. >> with the kennedys. >> yeah. >> and i think with the roosevelts. >> one thing i thought was very interesting is that when fdr went to congress on september 8 the day after the bombing at pearl harbor, he invited edith wilson to come and sit in the gallery as she had sat in the gallery when wood row wilson called for war in the first world war. >> your question? >> i have a question here about the president's illness when edith was covering up or not letting the nation know about his illness, was she being investigated or did she commit a crime by doing this? >> i don't know that it was a crime. i think it was a big mistake. no, there was no congressional investigation. i mean, that -- christie mentioned the smelling committee sending the senators up to check on him. that's as far as they are when they got with it. >> as we close out here, first of all, james m. wants to know about edith wilson's funeral in 1961 when she died. what was that like? >> i had no idea. was there anything special about it? >> the quiet people. she was buried with him in the cathedral. >> we talk about them, they were the first and only presidential couple to be married in the national cathedral in washington, d.c. those of you who went to europe to see many of the famous people. they got to one president and the first lady. that's it. so in the -- in the close of your book, i want to show a christie miller on screen so people can see the biography of two wives. ellen and edith, woodrow wilson's first ladies. if people can see the cover, i'm going to open it like i did the last time you had conclusions. e did wilson undeniably had an impact on history. she took over after his stroke enabling him to remain in office. had he resigned in the u.s., he would have joined the league of nation. you write regardless of whether edith wilson had an effect on international relations, her actions changed constitutional law. her assumption of power for woodrow wilson's illness was well known on presidential suppression. this is the part i wanted to go to. edith wilson did not use the power of presidential spouse as constructively as she might have. she made no effort to model better notions between the races. her personal style did warm up woodrow's stern image in the public eye and the leadership in world war i, knitting, selling bonds, working in a canteen, provided a good role model for american women in wartime. so wrap a bow around all of this. what we shouldn't think about edith wilson's tenure in the white house and the contributions to the role of first lady and to the country. >> i think as john suggested, unfortunately, her biggest contribution is what not to do, even as late as 1987, william sapphire was writing to nancy reagan writing a column that said to nancy reagan, don't you be an edith wilson. don't meddle in presidential politics. and i'm afraid tat that in some ways is her greatest legacy as first lady. >> what an interesting story tonight. thanks to both of you for being here and telling us about the two first ladies in woodrow wilson's life and the country's history. thanks. >> thank you. tor yield? mr. cruz: well, i object. you asked for consent, and i object. mr. reid: the house deny add plan for health insurance. outside the house republican bubble, reaction was altogether different. the radical tea party plan to shut down the government, unless democrats dish it has been called the dumbest idea by one republican senator. it has been called a box can john, a morass from which the republicans will not escape. it has been called dishonest by one republican senator and a suicide note by another republican senator. so, been called dishonest by one republican senator and a suicide note by another senator. the reviews are in. the ransom demanded is unworkable and unrealistic. president obama has been clear, any deal that defunds obama and the health care plan is dead on arrival in the senate. affordable care act has been the law of the land for four years now. we will work with reasonable republicans to approve this law. now we know there's anarchy underfoot. we're not going balance tea party anarchist who denies the fact that obama care is the law. we will not bow to tea party anarchist who refuse to accept obama care to be constitutional. we will not bow to the tea party anarchists in the house and in the senate who ignored the fact that president obama was overwhelmingly re-elected a few months ago. what they failed to mention to the american people and to the senate and to the house, that 59% of americans either support the law and transformative according to a cnn poll. the vast majority of americans want congress to work to approve it, not to tear it down. according to a new cnbc poll, they work to shut down the health care. the facts are the vast majority of american people are satisfied with obama care. obama care is the law of the land and will remain the law of the land as long as barack obama is the president of the united states and as long as i'm the senate majority leader. the backing of their radical allies in the senate postpones. this week, the united states senate will act as quickly as tea party republicans will allow. once the senate had acted, house republicans will face a choice to pass a clean continuing resolution or shut down the federal government. so the question, our extremist republicans really ready to shut down the government? time will only tell. but the world looks to america for leadership and this lack of respect for the rule of law truly the example we wish to set for oh eres? -- others? are the republicans so intent on undermining president obama that they're willing to inflict damage to the public. america will know who to blame, republican fanatics in the house and the senate. i urge those republicans to listen to the more reasonable republican republica republicans and i read some of the commentary on how dumb they think it is. one republican senator said it's the dumbest idea they ever heard. two dozen senate republicans have spoken out about the fool hearty plan to drive the economy off of a cliff. two dozen. this thelma and louise style just failing to get the attention of the american public. they want to go right over the cliff. we don't want to go with them. i'm glad to see more and more of my friends stepping up to speak sense to the truest element of their party. in "the new york times" it was written on saturday -- and i quote. speaker boehner trapped under the thumb of tea party anarchist called friday's vote to defund obama care a victory for common sense. she said, more like a triumph of nonsense, noncommon sense. a few reasonable republicans realize this for the sake of a victory would be another step to the death mill for the republican party. every one of the senators i read their comments to everyone listening, plus the 20 or so others i didn't mention to what they said. they're conservative people, conservative republicans. they're just not radical. so mr. president, i say the house and senate republicans continue to die a reality. and risk america's economy. listen to the chorus all around you. listen to what they're saying. your conservative senate colleagues will urge you off of this reckless course. the largest group of chamber of commerce urged you off of the reckless course. mesh families are wary of the foolish fights and these ethical fights. i urge you off of the reckless course. on behalf of the democrats who long for the day for legislative cooperation, we did it stin stead of hostage taking, i personally urge you off of this reckless course. what remains to be seen is whether the republican colleagues on both sides of the capital are wise enough to listen. >> today senator ted cruz of texas getting a unanimous consent request that the senate pass without amendment the house bill to fund the government through december and remove funding for the health care law. harry reid objected. senator cruz spoke 15 minutes outlining his position. his remarks are followed by mike wie of utah. >> the unanimous consent requests i put forward. mr. president, i ask unanimous consent that the senate agree to the motion to proceed. that no debate, amendments, or motion to the resolution be in order. that the resolution be read a third time and passed and that the motion to reconsider be considered made and laid upon the table without any intervening action or debate. >> reserving the right to object. my friends get right to the point. i appreciate that. i understand that the junior senator from texas has consent to pass the house resolution by consent without any amendments. i understand that. i said he should get right to the point. the house passed resolution as we know now would defund obama care, not only the administration of the program and all of the related benefits as well. that's untoward. second, debt prior toization language or what's been called the paint china first policy. this would leave us to default on our obligations to everyone else besides bondholders and social security. everyone from veterans to small businesses to federal employees, contractors, doctors, hospitals, medicare patients generally. to, mr. president, the president would veto the resolution so it's not going become law any way and i object. >> objection is heard. >> the second unanimous request that i would put forward, mr. president, i ask unanimous consent that the senate agree to proceed to h.j. rez 59 and all points be waived. adoption of any amendments be subject to a 60 affirmative vote threshold and that upon disposition of all amendments, the resolution be read a third time and passed an and the motion to be reconsidered considered made and laid upon the table with any intervening action or debate. >> mr. president. >> is there an objection? >> reserving the right to object. mr. president, i again understand the senator from texas in his request which would create a new 60-vote hurdle where the senate rules do not require one at the present time. mr. president, i follow the senate rules. sometimes they're obnoxious. i wish they were different. i try my best. in leading this to this difficult place sometimes. to live up to all of the rules. they live up to all of the hurdles. that's the way it's developed over the years. i understand that. sometimes senators like these, sometimes they don't. i guess that most would say senators have enough 60-vote hurdles. that the senate has enough of these really arbitrary hurdles as it is. don't add even more barrierles to getting things done. mr. president, we should be careful of adding new barriers. people travel the country. they know what the rules are and how difficult they are. and i would bet the vast, vast majority of the senators, democrats and republicans, would like them changeled. the problem is, mr. president, we tried that recently. we were able to get a -- make a little headway. not a lot. most americans will add we work on ways to agree to work together rather than disagree. i almost would bet although i'm not a betting man, that most americans would rather avoid shutting down the government. mr. president, i nknow the sincerity of faith of the senator of texas, i disagree with him almost as sincerely as he disagrees with me. i don't take way from his sincerity. but having said that, i'm in a position now to object. and i must do that. >> objection is heard. senator from texas. no -- >> i've been asked to do a brief consent request. >> happy to yield. >> i have one consent request per committee in today's session. i ask consent this request be agreed to and print in the record. >> objection? >> without objection? >> mr. president. >> senator from texas? >> i now ask unanimous consent i be allowed 20 minutes to speak? >> without objection. >> mr. president, these two unanimous consent requests have the virtue of being clarified -- clarifying what the debate is that the senate will face this week. and i'm going to suggest to you, mr. president, the senate has not faced a more important debate in the short time that you and i have both served in this institution. no american wants a government shutdown. i don't want one, no one on this side of the aisle wants a government shutdown. the house of representatives doesn't want a government shutdown. five minutes ago, the senate could have acted to prevent a government shutdown. the request i promulgated to the majority leader was to pass the continuing resolution at the house of representatives passed and if that had happened, there would be no government shutdown. the government shutdown would be taken off of the table. the specter that you and i see on the television screen every day. the countdown clock that has started to appear will disappear. but the majority leader chose to object -- to object and to say no -- he would rather risk a government shutdown than act to prevent it. now why, again, the majority leader was quite candid. because he supports the law called obama care. one of the pieces the default prevention act. the president of the united states has been doing a fair amount of public speaking raising the prospect of a default on our debt. and the house of representatives acted boldly to work on continuing resolution language that would say the united states would never ever ever default on its debt. that in the event the debt ceiling is not raised, we will always pay our debt first. i suspect every member of this body has spoken publicly about the calamity that would come from the default on the debt. it's quite revealing that the majority leader explicitly reference and objected to by name taking a default off of the table. i think that's unfortunate. there's a tendency in this town towards brinksmanship. pointing to events that can use uncertainty and using them to get your way. i wish the majority leader would had been willing to step forward and say i agree number one, the government should be funded. we should not have a government shutdown. and number two, we should never ever ever even discuss a default on the debt. had the majority leader simply said, "i consent" a default on the debt would have been taken permanently off of the table. why didn't he? we all know why he did not. the majority leader embraces obama care. i'm going to suggest to you, mr. president, that this body a little over three years ago passed obama care. it passed it on a straight party line vote. and in the time since it's passed, america has learned that it's not working. the americans all over this country are suffering because of obama care, it's the single biggest job killer in america. every day we're seeing more and more evidence that obama care is killing jobs, that it is hurting american workers that are struggling that it's causing people to be forcibly be put into part-time work 29 hours a week. it's jacking up the health insurance premiums and causing more and more people struggling to lose their health insurance all together. today, the new york times reported that because of obama care, quote, insurers are significantly limiting the choices of doctors and hospitals available to consumers. that's today in the newspaper. "usa today" reported on a new, quote, family glitch that could cause up to a half million children to go without insurance coverage. a headline in "the washington post" today read, quote, one week away, obama care's small business insurance exchanges not all ready for launch. and even the labor unions. that once championed obama care, are now publicly decrying it as a threat to the 40-hour work week that's the backbone of the american middle class, that's in the words of organized labor. this law is hurting the american people. and it's it's why there's bipartisan consent outside of washington, d.c. we need to step up and stop it. that would be the responsible thing for senators on both sides of the aisle to do, to say the same rules should apply -- the hardworking american families that apply to big corporations and apply to members of congress. we've seen the president unilaterally put in place exceptions for giant corporations and members of congress. mr. president, i would submit hardworking american families deserve that same exception. so i think it's unfortunate they that the majority leader chose to object to continuing government to preventing a shutdown, to taking a default off of the table. but i do think it is clarified to make clear as the majority leader just did that he is willing to risk a government shutdown. he's willing to force, even, a government shutdown, in order to insist that obama care is funded. and mr. president, that leads to the second unanimous consent request that i put forward. a simple request that every amendment this resolution be subject to 60 votes. everybody in this body knows that's not an unusual request in the united states senate. amendments in this body are routinely subjected to 60-vote thresholds. indeed, you and i will both recall a few months ago when this body was debating the issue of guns, the contentious issue, an emotional issue, an issue of great moment to this country. the majority leader agreed with the minority that every single amendment on the floor would be subject to a 60-vote threshold. those are the terms under which every aspect of the gun debate was debated. i would note that one amendment that was submitted in the gun debate was the grassley-cruz amendment. it was the law enforcement amendment that put real teeth in going after felons and fugitives who tried to illegally buy guns to put real teeth into forcing states to report mental health reports so that we can prevent those with serious mental illnesses from illegally purchasing firearms. i would note, mr. president, that the grassleyz received the majority vote in this institution. a majority of senators voted for it, including nine democrats. it was the most comprehensive. it was the most bipartisan of the comprehensive gun legislation voted on in this body. and yet it did not pass into law because the majority leader set a 60-vote threshold for every amendment. i would suggest that obama care is no less important. obama care is no less controversial. and obama care likewise should be subject to the same threshold. if the majority leader believes obama care is good for america, the democrats believe obama care is good for america, i would encourage this body, let's debate -- not the artificial sense in which we debate, one or two senators in an empty hall. but in a sense of making a case to each other and the american people, whether this law is working or whether it is not. because everywhere i travel in the state of texas and across the country, americans come to me and raise the single biggest challenge they're facing as obama care. it's killing their job, taking away health care. it isn't working. 3 1/2 years ago, obama care was forced into law on a strict party line vote. by straight brute force. but it should be funded that way. that's not the way a government should proceed. that's not the way the institution should proceed. a 60-vote threshold does not require that a leader get a great many republican votes, but it does require he get a few. he cannot do it with only the votes in this body. this country will be better off if we work together to restore economic growth and to stop the incredible job loss coming from obama care. in fact, regarding a 60-vote threshold, here's what the learned majority leaders had to say, quote, for more than 200 years, the rules of the senate have protected the american people and rightfully so. the need to muster 60 votes in order to term mate senate debate naturally frustrates the majority and oftentimes the minority. i'm sure it will frustrate me when i assume the office of minority leader in a few weeks. but i recognize this requirement as a tool that serves a long-time purpose in our senate and the american people. i agree with majority, senator reid. i think it makes us behave on a partisan matter but in a way that gets us together and get us to the challenges coming from obama care. i believe nothing is hurting the american people more. nothing is hurting the economy more. nothing is damaging jobs more, than obama care. given the majority leader's objection raised today, the path that the majority tends to go is now clear. it's clear for democrats, it's clear for republicans, it's clear for the world to see. the majority leader has stated it is his intention to force a vote to fund obama care. and to to do so on 51 votes on a straight party line vote and all likelihood would be a straight party line vote. it's not a course of action. it's not a course of action that i think the republicans would act act withes to. if it's the intent to fund it with 51 votes, i would suggest that it's our obligation to prevent the majority leader from fund ohhing bama care with just 51 votes. any member of this body that vote votes for cloture on this bill would be voting to allow obama care with 51 votes. the vote is at stake. that vote discerns our constituents and hurts the people of america. 232 members of the house of representatives came together and said explicitly, do not fund obama care. i would note that included two democrats who came together with their republicans in a bipartisan manner to say this law isn't working. maybe we thought it would work, but the facts, the evidence, have proved -- proven that it is not working. the senate should do likewise. the house acted last week because the house acted to the american people and i would suggest every member of this body should do the same thing. listen to the american people. because if we listen to the american people, we will, number one, keep the government running. i wish the majority leader had agreed to my request to take a government shutdown off of the table by passing the house continuing resolution. if we had listened to the american people, we will, number two, take any default on the debt off of the table. i wish the majority leader had not objected to doing so right now. i wish the majority leader had not said he intends to continue to use the threat of a default. to engage in brinksmanship to force the vote on the american people. if we listen to the american people, we will recognize this law is not working. that is why big corporations asked for and received an exception. that is why members of congress asked for and received an exception. that is why unions have just recently come forward and asked for an exception. they have not yet been granted. but i'll venture a prediction now. if we vote 51 votes for obama care, the union exemptions will not be far away. the job-killing subjects of obama care, not only members of congress, and in the near future, i predict not on union bosses, only on hardworking american families, on single moms, young people, and people struggling to climb the economic ladder. mr. president, i would suggest it's getting it exactly backwards. this body should not be granting special rules, special favors, for the ruling class, for those with power and privilege, we should be fighting for those who are struggling. and those are the people that get hurt the most by obama care. i believe this week will be a critical week for the united states senate. for every one of us, i see the republicans and democrats standing together. understanding bipartisan differences, we have an obligation to the people of our states and obama care isn't working. so we're going step forward and recognize the simple reality -- that it's the biggest job killer in this country and we should not affirmatively fund it. mr. president, i yield the floor. >> on friday, a unified house republican conference sent a strong message to the american people. keep the government open and lets's protect the american people simultaneously from the harmful and potentially devastating effects of obama care. it's now time for the senate to act. we know the president's health care law is not ready to implement. "the wall street journal" recently reported that the government software that runs the on-line insurance marketplaces known as exchanges simply are not ready. they can't reliably determine how much people need to pay for coverage. now, if in the face of the other effects of the law are not ready, many by the president's own admission. if the president goes ahead with this law anyway, we know that obama care would be implement in a manner that's manifestly unfair and likely to harm hardworking americans. big business, unions, and other special interests may well all receive special treatment under obama care while the rest of the country will be forced to obama care's unfair, unworkable, and fundamentally unsound system. we know that the laws are affordable. we know that it will be bad for the economy. at a time when we are running annual deficits of $12 trillion, obama care will cost $2 trillion. it's causing employers to shed workers, cut back hours, and stop providing health insurance for employees. we know it's not going to work. the congressional budget office recently concluded that after ten years of obama care, 31 million americans will still lack health insurance. we understand that these are inconvenient facts for the president and for members of this body who still support this law. but those are the facts. and we have a responsibility to do something about it. how many more people will have to lose their jobs, wages, and health care benefits before congress acts? how many more states will have to announce the premiums that are going up before we do something to protect the country? if the president won't act to protect the american people from this law and its harmful effects, congress should. and so last friday, a unified house -- republican house showed tremendous courage in enacting legislation. knowing full well what the media would say, what the president would say, and what democrats on both sides of the capitol would say, 228 republicans responded to the willf oh the american people. and overwhelmingly passed a bill that would fund government and protect the country from obama care. only one party has voted to fund the government. only one party has voted to avoid a shutdown. right now, the ball is in the senate's court. now, once the ball has reached the senate, as now has happened, the senate can respond in one of several ways. basically, i see three options on the table. two of which are perfectly appropriate. one of which is unacceptable. but the first option would be for this body under the leadership of our majority leader to take up a vote on this bill, the house passed continuing resolution. the house continuing resolution that keeps government funded but defunds obama care and to give that an up or down vote. to vote on that bill as is. the second approach would be to open it up for an open amendment process. to allow us to debate, discuss, and consider amendments on the house passed bill. as each senator might consider. both of the first two options are appropriate. both are understandable and acceptable under the totality of the circles. some might lean toward the first option, just moving quickly to consideration of the house passed bill and as is position even the fact that they are t minus seven days and a few hours until the existing continuing resolution expires. on midnight of the evening next monday night, we're just over 7 days before that expires. many of us suggest the best option is to take the first approach. for the senate to open this up for a vote in the house passed continuing resolution. if the house voted to have that amendment, it would need to be an open amendment office, it's appropriate for this body, a body that many have described as the world's greatest deliberative body. it's great and deliberative if we want to continue this tradition, we need to have an open amendment process when the amendments are considered. the third option i referred to, the option i consider unacceptable would be an option in which the majority leader would use a procedural trick to allow the majority party to gut the house-passed continuing resolution, removing the single most significant provision without allowing consideration for one single amendment. this is not okay. pass it as is, pass or don't pass it or open up the amendment process so that all members of this body have the opportunity to introduce and vote on amendments as each individual senator deems appropriate. those are the only two exceptional options. it would not be if the majority leader were to decide to use a procedural trick to allow one amendment, an amendment that would gut the house-passed continuing resolution and negate the single most distinguishing provision. now the question that leaves us, once this bill comes up in this body, will we, as united states senators be courageous? will we do the right thing for the american people? or will senate democrats threaten to shut down the government to protect an ill conceived unworkable, unaffordable and fundamentally unfair law. there's no doubt that many voices will say we can't win this fight. but i'm not so sure. two months ago, the same voices said that we could not and would not get this far. they said that this effort would amount to bad politics. they said this simply would not work in the congress as it exists in 2013. they were wrong. nay were wrong because what was passed on friday is what the american people have been demanding overwhelmingly. they demanded congress act to keep the government open and functioning to protect the american people from the harmful and devastating effects of obama care. that's why i believe we can win. the senate majority may have the upper hand. but the american people will and almost must have the last word. >> senators began the first stage of consideration of the house continuing resolution on tuesday. senator majority leader reid filed cloture on the motion to proceed to the house bill on monday with a vote on that motion expected wednesday and a further procedural vote later in the week. it's expected that majority leader reid will offer an amendment to strip out the part of the bill defunding the health care law. president obama is in new york city as he attends the u.n. general assembly. monday the president hosted a round table on promoting civil society around the world. his remarks are ten minutes. >> thank you very much. try this. thank you very much, everybody, for joining us here today. and i want to offer a few brief remarks in terms of the purpose ask of this meeting. we have a wonderful panel here. heads of state, members of civil society, people who have been working on these issues for a very long time. the focus today is on civil society because it's my strong belief that the strength and success for all countries and all regions depends in part on protecting and supporting civil society. i want to thank deputy secretary general elijah. i want to thank my good friend, president elbigorg of an goal yeah representing the xmunty of democracies. i want to thank mexico representing civil society members of the open government partnership. and i want to thank all of you for joining us here today. the human progress has always been propelled at some level by what happens in civil society. citizens coming together to insist that a better life is possible. pushing their leaders to protect their rights and the dignities of all people. and that's why the universal declaration of human rights states that everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association. this is not a western value. this is a universal right. so a society led the fight and apartheid in south africa. it led the fight to bring freedom to eastern europe. it helped to heal places divided by conflict, cambodia and colombia. here in the united states, civil society is the catalyst of virtually every major advance that we've made, from the abolition of slavery to women's rights, civil rights. the protections of workers and the protections of the environment. and yet, still today in every region, we see that the fight goes on. citizens leading the charge to expand opportunity, correct injustices, to shape the country's futures. and it's my belief that strong nations recognize the values of active citizens. they support and to power citizens rather than stand in the way, even if it's inconvenient or perhaps especially when it's inconvenient for government leaders. strong civil societies uphold human rights. they promote good governance by making governance more effective and holding leaders like me to account. and they're critical for economic development because of the global economy, trade and investment flows to countries that give the citizens the freedom to create and develop new ideas and that are protectled -- protectled by rule of law. many countries in this room are working in partnership with civil societies, an guolla, mexico, tanzania, they're working together to reduce the rule of law, reduce wasteful spending, and strength and health and education. what they're seeing is a growing number of countries that are passing laws designed specifically to stifle civil society. they're forcing groups to register the governance, restricting ngos from accessing foreign funding, cracking down on communications technologies to connect civil society groups around the world. arellsed on false charges and some have been killed. we're seeing new and fragile democracies cracking down on civil society which i believe sets them back and sends a dangerous signal to other countries. so, in recent years, the international community have stepped up our support. two years ago, some of you recall we came together to launch the open partnership, to launch effective and partnership with civil society. 60 countries and a broad coalition of civil society. the community of democracies is working to take aim at restrictive laws. the human rights council established the first special repertory on the rights of peaceful assembly and association. and several governments and foundations including many in this room contribute to a lifeline fund to society groups under threat. so i've made a point to meet with civil society worldwide virtually every foreign trip i take, i carve out time to meet with citizens who are active on a whole range of issues. and in part, it's to lift up the good work that they're doing and affirm that the united states stands behind their efforts. nevertheless, we have to recognize that the crackdown continues and we need to do more to increase global attention and spur global action. that's why we're here. i'm challenging all of us to use the next 12 months to make progress in three key areas. first, we have to identify the specific steps to that country, including the united states, can take to make it easier for civil society to do its job and to encourage governments to embrace civil society groups as partners. number two -- we need to do more to stand against restrictions on civil society and better coordinate our diplomacy when the government tries to stifle civil society. i think it's krit dahl the international community should be working together to secure finances. we have to find a way to support civil society in difficult circumstances. governments that restrict civil society are ensuring their worst practicings. withe have to ensure our best practices and doing all we can to help civil society succeed. many of you know that i didn't begin my career in -- in elective politics. i began working in low-income communities in chicago. i was elected as president through the active participation of citizens. and i know what active citizens can do. and the united states as one of our most precious gifts has been trying to set an example of how active citizens can make a country stronger. that makes us deeply committed to all people who are contributing to our nation's progress and their nation's progress and as the other countries crack down, we have to go at it together. going to be looking for specific actions, specific followup of stems. with that, i'd like to turn it over to the deputy secretary general for his remarks and make sure that the outstanding panel has an opportunity to make their resolutions. >> fellow panelists. to your guests. ladies and gentlemen of the jury of france. thank you for taking this initiative to support civil society. the relation with the civil society and the community of light which is the basis of vitality of a democracy. also this initiative touches on the so much of the work that brings all of the leaders to new york this week. and the message i'm delivering here is on behalf of ban ki-moon who was impossible for him to leave this afternoon with the science of cloning isn't advanced enough. so the message is the following -- we're living in turbulent times. the relationship between leaders and those they govern is changing. there are new demands, new expectations. there's new technology. but one act, one approach, one human phenomenon has to be at the heart of this relationship. and that is listening. they will hear from them in the streets, in the square, as we see far too often on the battlefield. there's a better way. more participation. more democracy, more engagement, more openness. this is the maximum space for civil society. it's a foundation for a healthy, responsive governor. civil society is crucial for human rights by with raising awareness and ring the alarm about abuse and it seems that advancing the work of the united nations on the whole agenda. not only on human rights but for peace, security, as well as development. i would say that civil society has never been more in this center and more needed than it is today. that is why the growing predictions facing civil society as the president just outlined in country after country are so disturbing. legislation is often our target in civil society organizations making it practically impossible for them to operate. the laws and the human rights offenders. seeing new ways to impede their work by sometimes overreaching anti-terrorist and national security legislation. it's relating to defferals and legislation. morals requiring the funding over the association. and new rules restricting internet access. the assault on human rights defenders and civil society groups is sometimes matched with outright attacks in different forms. smear campaigns, travel, harassment and intimidation, illegal detection, sometimes even torture and death. the intimidation against people who cooperate with the united nations and is unacceptable. not only because they've helped us as i've seen myself all over the world do the work that we're mandated to do that we're in touch with them to declare them by human rights. and it also scares others from working with us and for us. we must take action that every level to strengthen the voice of democra democracy. i would hope leaders and others in positions of influence that they publicly or systematically condemn acts of reprisal and intimidation. i welcome on going discussions to ensure a strong system of response and reprisals. there should be impartial litigation to bring perpetrators to justice and remedies for victims. and, of course, we must reenforce the indispensable role in protecting all aspects of human rights including rights of freedom of association and assembl assembly. mr. president, ladies and gentlemen, in closing, people in society groups often risk their lives to improve the lives of others. they seek out even when they know they could be silenced forever. they highlight problems that others ignore, and might not even think exists. they seek and they connect with like-minded people across the world. but we all know that far too often, they are left at times to feel all alone. we must never -- we must never dessert or forget them. they protect our rights. they serve our rights. all of us have the responsibility to protect human rights for them to advocate for them. when that does not happen, all of us have the obligation to stand up and speak out. you have provided us with the opportunity to do that, mr. president, let us do that today and every day. >> vice president biden travelled to colorado to view damage from recent flooding and survey recovery efforts. he assured the colorado residents that a potential government shutdown would not impact a disaster relief aid. his remarks are about ten minutes. >> well, i wish i were not here under these circumstances. but i want to start off by thanking the governor for the tour today and for the colorado national guard. i'm joined by representative polis, kauffman, gardner, and my good buddy, michael bennett. and i just want to say to them that you've been incredibly responsive and thanks for allowing me to come out and take a look. also, the mayor bevins is here and the county commissioner as well. i want to thank them for their so incredibly responsive. folks, look. we're in the air about an hour. touring the devastation and it is devastation. the stories that i've heard in here and from the gentleman standing behind me about the sacrifices individuals made, about the sense of community, about how people pull together, is pretty amazing. but not at all surprising. not at all surprising. now i want to thank, by the way, all of the fema group and all of the red cross, all of the people here, and one of the things i want saying to craig fugate, the director of fema, you know, i've been doing this for a long time. visited a lot of disaster sites in my career. and the difference between fema today as opposed to fema five, six, seven years ago -- and they were good then. but the difference is, you walk in here and it's one-stop shopping. you have a group of people inside and in the other centers around this state that are looking to find an answer for yo you. they're not giving you a telephone number. they're not saying if you need this help, call this number. they're saying walk three chairs down to the table at the end of the table and we'll get this done for you. and, governor, the way you've been on top of this from the outset is remarkable. when president obama issued the disaster declaration for the state, as you all know, that provided additional assistance. everything from cleaning up debris, to helping people with their housing costs, to poots on the ground that are providing technical assistance and helping the search and rescue. the good news i heard today, the number of unaccounted folks -- correct me if i'm wrong, senator, down to six, s-i-x. so things are moving, things are moving in the right direction. fema is able to provide temporary housing, home repair, that's not covered by your insurance, medical expenses, transportation needs, moving, storage, other support for those directly impacted. you can talk to fema representative at any of the 14 shelters that are currently established here. they can help you figure out what kind of assistance you're eligible for. the thing i find most often visiting disaster sites -- first of all, people are absolutely devastated. they cannot believe everything that they have literally has been washed away. and the last thing they need is to be confronted with the group of alphabet agencies that are going to, in fact, tell them you can do, a, b, or c -- this idea of not only providing help but giving them comfort, giving them comfort, putting them in a zone that they know everybody inside the building and others are there to help them. you can get assistance -- those watching on television, you can get assistance at fema.com or by calling the help line. the number is 800-621-3362. that number is 800-621-3361 2. and there will be someone on the other end of the line that will walk you through your needs. you tell them what your problem is. tell them what you lost. and then we'll find a way through the maze for you. there is help. the department of transportation was here, the federal highway administration and working cloelgsly with federal, state, and local agencies to assess the damage and help to restore essential traffic and minute mitz further damages. one of the thingings i found most fascinating and devastating in the helicopter ride, is that so many small communities that are literally isolated, isolated on one side of a stream or one side of what now is a raging river. with no physical possibility of crossing that stream or the way it's raging right now. it's not raging in a comparable sense, but a lot depper and a lot more rapid than it -- than it usually my folks can't make it across on to a road. the number of highways should have been washed away completely, and the county and city roads that have washed out as well. so there's the ability -- there's moneys available to help both the federal highway system as well as the local highway system. to date, there's been $35 million approved to repair and reconstruction of roads and bridges. that's not going to be enough. but it's going to continue to kwortnate the critical infrastructure needs. we talked about the needs for bridges, bridges right now to get agricultural products to market so everything is not lost. all of this is under way. quite frankly, i expected to see it worse than i have in a matter of just slightly over a week, the progress and maid thus far is pretty remarkable. i want to keep working with the governor on long-term strategy rebuilds and get people back to their homes. once all these come together and gone, once all of the news conferences were over. fema and the red cross are still going to be here until we make you whole. until we make it right for you. and i want you to know, if there's now a lot of you who will be listenings to this broadcast will hear probably on the national news about the potential for a government shutdown. probably going to be the living devil out of you. there's reason to be scared but not in terms of disaster relief. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] >> next here on c-span, our first lady series features allen and edith wilson, the wives of our 28 president, woodrow wilson. then we will look at the budget battle in congress. that is followed by a senate hearing on combating human trafficking. >> this is the woodrow wilson house in washington dc the home of our 20th president and first lady edith wilson. after they left the white house in 1921. you will be seeing more of it over the next two hours as we tell the story of the two wills and administrations first ladies, allen and edith. >> allen and woodrow met in their 20s and their love for each other was reflected in passionate letters. guide his career from academia to politics, he set an example for future first ladies, ellen wilson died just a year and half into the president's term. soon meting president washington businesswoman edith galt. they married after a secret courtship and edith wilson served as first lady for more than five years. in unprecedented role managing the president's affairs after he suffered a stroke remains are the most controversial efforts of any first lady. tonight, the story of the wilson administrations to first ladies, ellen and edith. we have two traffic deaths here to tell you about these two interesting women and the times in which they lived. book is allen and edith, woodrow wilson's first ladies. john mills cooper is woodrow wilson's biographer. thanks for being with us. we have been telling the stories chronologically, but everybody knows about edith wilson managing the white house as it her husband after suffers a stroke. we will tell that story first because so many people really want to know what happened. withcooper, let me start you. when in his it ministration did he suffered a stroke. theore than halfway through second term. it was october 1919. here just returned from a whirlwind speaking tour. he was tried to sell the country on ratifying the peace treaty and going into the league of nations. he had really worn himself out on that and his doctors actually aborted the tour and got him back to the white house. after about five days in the white house he suffered a massive stroke third >> the story of the stroke night itself is very dramatic or it can you tell us recently what happened that night? there are some conflicting reports about what happened, but i think that the most accurate portrayal is that he got up in the morning, edith had been going into check on him during the night and she found him slumped to the floor and couldn't move his left side. she went out into the corridor and used a telephone that did not go through the switchboard. she did not want to have this universally known. she asked the chief usher to call the doctor from this other phone. the doctor came in and they helped him into bed, but he was paralyzed on his left side. >> a character that is going to be a big part of the story is kerry greeson. the doctor.eson is here been inside the white house first under the taft administration and then shortly, taft introduced him to his successor wilson and pretty soon , wilsone inauguration sister fell down and grace and treated her and did a good job treated her and did a good job. and he was a virginian which went a long way with the wilson's. he was the white house physician. he was the one who treats him. they called in various consultant specialists, but grayson was the one who treated wilson. >> what was the extent of his condition? how badly had the stroke affected him? >> he had a blockage in an artery leading to his brain and this is usually not a fatal stroke, but it did immobilize him for a while. he probably would have recovered 10rly rapidly had he not days later suffered a second medical condition. he had prostate trouble and he had a urinary tract infection with a very high fever. of course they didn't have antibiotics at that time, they debated whether to operate, but the specialist felt that to operate on a 52-year-old man with high blood pressure and a stroke would have been very unwise. so they just decided to let nature take its course and eventually he recovered, but it really sapped his vitality. this one-two punch really did him in for about a month. christie is free to agree or disagree, but i think the worst effect of the stroke on wilson was really on his emotional balance. his judgment also. his intellect wasn't impaired and his speech was an impaired. yes some he could function that way, but so much more goes into being a leader and the president then just being smart and being able to do these things. becausething is, partly of that other illness that you just talked about, christie, they isolated him. that is when you're supposed to keep away from stress. now they know it is exactly the wrong thing to do. what you want to do with the person who is had a stroke is get them into social interaction . with the best of intentions they were doing exactly the wrong thing. >> dr. grayson's letters are part of the collection at the woodrow wilson library at stanford about two hours from washington. togetherg this program , we will learn more about wilson threw grayson's letters. >> we have a letter in this box whohenry morgan sthau wanted to write about experiences. so he was asking grayson if he could use certain information. the information you gave me about president wilson and you're having come to the conclusion that he should resign and how he was influenced by mrs. wilson to give up this plan. so mrs. wilson was very concerned that her husband would not get better if he did not have something to engage his mind, that he would just deteriorate if he was forced out of the presidency. was ill,sident wilson it has been speculated wildly among historians -- speculated widely among historians. we have one document here that sheds a little bit of light on that. it is a telegram from henry morgenthau who was the ambassador to turkey and he is writing to dr. carey grayson asking if the president has any objection to a citizens meeting to protest against turks being left in control of constantinople. and morgan saw has been asked to speak at this meeting -- and enthau has been asked to speak at this meeting. at the bottom of this telegram is edith's handwriting. we are familiar enough with her handwriting to recognize it as such. at the bottom she writes, thinks it well to postpone speaking on such subjects. did youdon't know is, just take this telegram into wilson, ask his opinion and then write that or did she just come to that conclusion herself. the public was very interested and curious to know the condition of wilson's health. rumors were rampant in the didn't even congressmen know what was going on. they only knew what they read in the papers. , careyt was all over grayson later wrote a summary of what happened from the time of the stroke until wilson left the white house. the decisionage -- was made to announce that wilson was suffering from nervous exhaustion. there were no other details given as to what was wrong with him. really no one knew the extent of his illness. he really was not capable of doing anything. dr. grayson thought it wise to issue general statements only. further, mrs. wilson, the president's wife, was absolutely opposed to any other course. she did not want it to be known that he was really suffering. again, she was protecting her husband and she wanted him to be able to fulfill his duties as president. she was worried about his legacy. ultimately, she was concerned about his health and she felt that if you left the presidency, left the white house, he would die. >> te away and i >> so how did they react? >> a couple of different ways. robert lansing who was the secretary of state and would have been fired if wilson hadn't been a stroke, there had bad break, that is another story. but lansing tried to get the cabinet in on it and i think he even made some communications with the vice president, who stayed out of it completely. he simply said no. greeted in the constitution. this is before the 25th amendment actually is not as much of a protection as we think in cases of inability. won't talk about disability this is the inability of the president to do his duties. what does that mean? this means if he were dead the vice president succeeds. this is the one time that we really had a disabled president. how do you deal with it? edith was scared. this was a very scary thing. make it up as you go along. welsh says, david what part of personality or intellect prepared mrs. wilson to take over during his recovery? what skills did she bring to this responsibility she was taking on? >> that is a very good question because she had exactly two years of formal schooling and her whole entire life. she came from a large family and had been chosen by her grandmother to take care of her, to be her caregiver. her grandmother was a very opinionated woman and taught edith, basically, that it was good to have opinions and to make decisions. edith had been widowed relatively young and had inherited gault's jewelers which was like the tiffany's of washington. so she kept the jewelry store and had a manager who made a lot of the decisions, but she was used to having everything her way. decidedrought this very personality. in addition, woodrow had courted her by showing her a lot of secret papers. henry kissinger used to say that power was the ultimate aphrodisiac. i think woodrow wilson would have agreed. toe was using this entree the secret papers as part of his court ship pier and she was susceptible to that and so he shared a great deal of what he was doing, really a great deal of what he was doing, with her. that sheohn said probably knew as well as anyone what he was doing and what he was thinking because he was a real lone wolf when it came to being a president. he did not have a lot of close advisers. >> that is true. >> this is from edith wilson herself. they published her memoirs. in this big controversy about how much power she took upon herself. here's what she said or did "i myself met never made a single decision regarding the disposition of public affairs. today we know, the gatekeeper to the president is really the most important job heard >> he or she controls accent to the president is in some regards president. as she said, it is not just who got to see him, they pretty much embargoed well for well over a month. no one got to see him. but also what the president gets to see. she would decide what was best for him to see and what not. the raps on edith in this was that she was putting her husband's health ahead of the good of the country and that somehow the priorities were wrong there. well, i don't think that is entirely why she did what she did. she knew what he wanted. if he couldn't express himself, she knew he would not want to resign. he would want to hang onto this. as christy said, she knew his mind better than anybody else. if anybody was going to access a substitute -- if anyone was going to act as a substitute, . >> thethe best hear secretary of state got lakhdar the cabinet members very thickly. wilson's secretary plus the loyalists like eaker and daniels in the cabinet but a kibosh on that very quickly. senators who two were detailed to come in and assess the condition of wilson because it came out when lansing went up to capitol hill that he hadn't spoken to the president about a very volatile situation in mexico. they deputized one democrat and one republican and edith and dr. grayson really stage-managed that very well. accounts differ on exactly what they did, but whatever it was him it was enormously theessful, including republican who would have been most anxious to show that there was something wrong with wilson, set to the press afterwards that the president grasped his hand with both of his. but that was impossible because a president could not move his left hand. but he was so taken with his apparent animation. he made a lot of jokes, because that part of his thinking came back for quickly. he loved to make puns and he loved to tell jokes and stories. that came back relatively quickly. but as john said, the judgment was really what took a hit. >> we have a timeline of the president's incapacitation. as john cooper told us it was 19.ember of 19 1920 when hech of left the house for the first time. by the way, we have to talk about all of the political intrigue and important decisions going on in the aftermath of world war i. his beloved league of nations was rejected by the senate at that time for the first time. in april of 1920 the president had his first cabinet meeting, eight months not meeting with the cabinet. it is almost unthinkable. how could the cabinet continue? >> i routine. and also, wilson was a great delegator. except in foreign affairs. other than that, he gave his cabinet secretaries lots of leeway. so they were used to running things on their own. it is just very lucky and maybe something of a tribute to that that the government function as well as it did. not all that well, but it did keep going. >> there is a story about edith. all during that time, what really was her role? >> i think one aspect of her role that was overlooked is the extent to which she tried to make woodrow give way on some of his intransigence about the league of nations. , which is fanciful in places, she says that she asked him leads to compromise with the republicans in congress to try to get the treaty passed with the league of nations. she said that he turned to her and said, little girl, don't you desert me to. foot nine.ut five that shein her book never try to change his mind again. but, we have evidence that there were at least two other occasions on which she did try to change his mind. staff hads chief of discussed some of the places where they hoped woodrow could give a little ground and where the republicans could give a little ground and they hoped to find some compromise. she took some notes very hurried, almost shorthand notes of what is obviously a speech that she was going to give to up saying andund for the sake of the country and the peace of the world, please consider this. it didn't work, apparently, because he didn't change. she was not a woman to take notes on something and not do something about it. a little bit later, she had some conversations with ray standard baker who is very close to wilson and later became his official biographer. he gave edith some suggestions, again, some talking points, to try to get wilson to change his mind. but he didn't and by the time he refused, by that time the republicans were also heartening their line. some of the hardliners were reeling in the republican leadership. facebook asks if edith ever spoke out publicly on the league of nations. >> she did not speak out on anything. this is again to correct a big misperception of edith. i do not think she was at all power-hungry for herself. she wanted what her husband wanted. his agenda was her agenda. she used to say to people, i never make speeches. i think she made a few, years after woodrow died, but during the time he was in the white house, she was asked to present something innocuous like a bouquet of flowers to the girl scouts and she said i'd like to make a speech, but i never have and i won't. she did not even approve of voting for women. or women's suffrage. >> let's go back in time, but before we goes up the section to reviewers, we thought you'd all want to get this out because it is such an interesting aspect historically. what is the bottom line of this. in american history? how did it affect how we view the role of the president, the role of the first lady and the constitutional issues? >> the role of the president, i mean, woodrow follows theodore roosevelt and these two together acting one after the other, made the president the center of the government, the active part. and even presidents later such as calvin coolidge, especially, who wanted to retreat to the sidelines, couldn't do it trade that is what really changed their. the first lady role probably in think ellen had more to do than edith did. becauseis a great segue we are now moving into the ellen story. >> tonight is a special two-hour program because we have to first ladies to talk about. our lines will be open and you can reach us if you live in eastover central time zone. you can be part of the facebook conversation, go to c-span on facebook and finally you can tweet us using at first ladies and be part of the conversation. we're going to roll back the clock and talk about the long marriage of woodrow wilson to his first wife ellen. to sit the stage for that we're going to visit the wilson house. it is available for you to visit if you come to the nations capital. inside right now in the drawing room is peter. with law and home who is the executive director of the house. this is a house where president and edith wilson lift post- presidency. how did they acquire this house? >> they moved here literally the day they left the white house in 1921. this home cost $150,000 and they managed to scrape together the money i assembling both president wilson's winnings as the nobel peace prize winner and also donations from canada's wealthy friends and political supporters. >> edith wilson lived here until her death in 1961. that is 40 years. also them expired in this home. in 1924 for president wilson. although it is edith wilson's house a mother is the presence of ellen wilson, isn't there? wilsonry at the woodrow house to remember the president's years which include ellenirst ladies, both wilson and edith wilson. it is important when you are considering figures in history to remember that they had childhoods and experiences that led them to the places that they were. >> so what are we looking at here? >> this is a painting painted by ellen wilson who was a painter of considerable talent. even as a young girl she knew that she was a good painter and enjoyed it. it is interesting that when president wilson proposed marriage to her she said yes, but i'd like to go to the art students league in new york, which is where she went to school for a year before they were wed. it is interesting that president wilson at that point in his life accepted that and married this woman who was independent and really laid the groundwork for and understand during of the role of women in society. his last wishes included the wish that this painting hang over his casket before he was laid to rest at the national cemetery. >> we are about a mile from the white house. we will show you some more a little bit later. >> thanks so much. inth was born in georgia 1860. .ell us about her early life >> her father was a presbyterian minister and he served in the civil war, but he had to leave because of some stress-related conditions. died in a mental institution, possibly a suicide. to heras very close mother, but her mother died in childbirth with her fourth child when she was 43. so ellen really had to take over herfamily, first after mother's death she had to take care of her father and then after her father's death she had to take care of her brothers and sister. so she became a very competent manager. she was very well educated for a woman of her time and place. she would have gone to college if she had had the money. when her father died she had the money to go to the art students league in new york for one year. she was very unsure that she would ever meet a man who could be her intellectual equal which she felt was necessary for her marriage. in fact, she had plans to open up a boarding house for women and supported with her artwork and people around town started calling her belly the manhater because she was so clearly not going to be satisfied with anyone in the town. but then woodrow wilson came to town. he was a lawyer at the time, he had a case, he went to church where her father was preaching and he met her there. >> how important was it that both alan axon and thomas woodrow wilson, with the children of ministers? >> in some ways that is the world they grew up in. not so much the u.s. of the south, but the presbyterian church which in many ways is a world unto itself. though,didn't make them either of them, and i think this is true of wilson as much as it it didn't make them religious zealots. it did not make them obsessed with religion. in some ways, religion was so central to them that in many ways they could take it for granted. it is in the background. it is always there, it is important, but the two of them -- but of the two of them, he was more the good strong believer. she is the one who had the religious doubts. especially because with the various family troubles depression ran really ran in the axon family. whoably one brother, eddie, died in a tragic accident as a young man, was about the only one who wasn't touched with depression. -- in some ways metaphysically and philosophically she was more curious than wilson was. wilson was much more interested in the affairs of the world, but religion is a background. >> he was interested in the affairs of the world, but he is so easily smitten with women. he falls. and this is an important of his personality. he knew instantly that he loved this woman. women have played an important part throughout his biography. what do you understand about women and his psychology and the role that they play with him? >> i wish i could say that he was a man who -- of great enlightenment and forward- looking views. he wasn't. he wasn't bad though by the standards of that time, he really comes off pretty well as having, believing strongly that women are very bright and very capable. generally, i think he still likes the subordinate role. basically, he just liked women and more so than men of that time he enjoyed the company of men very much, but he just generally enjoy the company of women and he enjoyed their intellectual companionship heard >> but he is so passionate. he is very passionate and very eloquent and so when you marry those two traits and the letters that he wrote to ellen after they were engaged, they are just the most astonishing love letters you will ever see. eloquent, too.te >> some of the love letters of ellen arelson to preserved at princeton university's manuscript library. we are going to learn about them next. >> here on the shelves are the correspondence between woodrow and eleanor. they are love letters. it has to be the largest collection of love letters exchanged between any present and future first lady. these letters were sealed. when the woodrow wilson family it is athey were sealed. time capsule shedding extraordinary life on the wilson's life together. woodrow is living in baltimore going to john thompson's. in 1894.to ellen when you come into my study, stitches me as i sit at my desk. it is odd how this attachment of viewers to me seems part of the force of my mind. my darling, i trust it is not wrong to worship you as i do. you are the presiding genius of both my mind and heart. , this thet fact happiness and strength of your woodrow. i think we see the extent to which woodrow wilson not only loved ellen, but acknowledged in a very clear way his intellectual debt to her. in how many cases can you say that the first lady and her husband, that he is stepping forward and saying i acknowledge that you are the source not only of my happiness but of my intellectual development? you introduced me to literature, to wordsworth, to browning. they would sit together on the campus and read wordsworth together sitting in the grass. profoundledged that role that ellen plays in his life. i thank youcan dearest for the sweet things that you say in today's letter. how happy it makes me that you think such things as me, even when i feel with a heart ache how sadly unworthy i am of it all. i too trust it is not wrong to worship you as i do. i had as well question that it be wrong to breathe. for i am in every breath altogether your own ellen. respond todoesn't them quite as passionately as he writes to her because she does tend to be a bit melancholy. but in this is an exuberance that is really delightful. , you was so devoted to him sense net l she puts herself second to his needs again and again throughout their life together. she is serving him and helping him. that was her conception of what her role was as woodrow wilson's wife. as she is dying in the white ,ouse, that tragic summer august 1914 with the world about to enter into great international convulsion with world war i about to break out, she is dying in the white house and she grabs the hand of dr. grayson and whispers to him, dr., if i go away, promise me that you will take good care of my husband. >> it might be hard to answer are listener, but on visitor ranks asked us where we would rank them on the loves of presidential couples. >> it seems to me it would be hard to come up to their level. as john cooper pointed out to me in arthurnight, lying links collection of woodrow wilson's letters. >> arthur linked was the greatest will surge -- was the greatest wilson scholar there ever was. volume that covers august 1914 and ellen's death, the editors, here it is, this is the introduction of this very stately monumental scholarly thing, with the editors bid a fond farewell to ellen wilson, whom we have all come to love. that is over the years that it had affected them so much. asked her tolson marry him just five minutes after he met her. when?ot married >> they got married two years later. woodrow had a great strategy. beforehad a girlfriend and she had refused his offer of marriage and so i think he was once burned twice shy. so he had decided that he was going to propose to ellen just before getting on the train to go to baltimore and attend johns hopkins in political science. so that if she refused him, there would be no awkward lingering as he later said. so they had met each other by chance in this town where neither of them lived. they were just passing through and he persuaded her to stay for a couple of extra days and meet his family. when she -- when he proposed to her, she was so startled that she blurted out yes. she had meant to, but she blurted this out and they had hardly known each other. but he was going off to study for two years, so they had a theyear engagement, since didn't know each other very well, it was the marvelous letters through which they isame intimate. >> mary kay watching us in san rafael california. you are on the air. thank you so much for the series. i was wondering what the first lady and president thought of the pickets in front of the white house for suffrage in 1917. >> this would be back to edith. ,hey were very indignant especially edith was very indignant. she thought they were rude and at one point woodrow offered to send -- to have them come into the white house and get warm and have half -- and have hot coffee and they were -- and they refused. didid not believe -- she not believe in suffrage for women and thought all this was quite foolish. there were two suffrage organizations and one of them was trying to go about amending the constitution in a state-by- other words have suffrage passed in the various states and then get more people in congress to support it. members ofeives the the national association of women suffrage -- national american woman suffrage association, and some people believe it was the extremism of the national women's party that allowed the more conservative group to make progress because they were seen as a lot less threatening. >> we are going to come back to his early years with ellen and his wife before politics. he is the only president who moved from the presidency of the university into politics and to the white house. princeton andt to how does he get to the presidency? >> first of all he was a presbyterian minister son and princeton had sort of severed its official ties with the church, but it was still a very presbyterian school. ,f you are a bright young man princeton was a place to go. he wanted to step out from the south, to. he went to hopkins briefly, his first teaching job was at bryn new college for women. he actually like teaching there. he liked the women at bryn mawr better than ellen did. she objected to the modern woman that he did. he got back to princeton in 1890, became the most popular professor there. basically, he was one of two real stars of the faculty. there was some intrigue among the trustees and everything to get him to the presidency, that he got chosen president in 1902. then he tried to reform princeton and succeeded a bit and failed quite a bit and really got stymied when the new jersey bosses came along and offered him the nomination for the governorship heard he took it from them and then turned on them immediately and became a reformer. a lot of things made him a front runner quite early, so he made a remarkable transition. in two years he went from being to beingity president president. the governorship was just a small interlude. wilson is one of those people of a lock,ception who succeeded in everything he did. he is one of the great lyrical scientists. he was a great scholar, a great university president. he was the best-known and most effective university president of his time. he is ranked among the best governors and he was one heck of an effective president, two. >> we love the interconnections here. grover cleveland after he left the white house went to princeton to practice law because it was difficult for a former president to do much else. is it true that the families knew each other and that the children even played together? >> i don't know about the children playing together but i do know that they knew each other. >> we are going to show your prospect house which was the house at the wilson's lived in on the time that the presidents house. today is use for social functions. as we look at it we are going to learn about ellen and woodrow wilson's political partnership and how that develops. is the study of prospect house and it looks very much as it did when woodrow and ellen wilson lived here. this would have been woodrow wilson's office. his desk would've been right here and here he would have met with students, faculty, university presidents, visiting people from across the world. it is here that he and ellen might've met to confer about university business. ellen wilson was highly involved with woodrow wilson's career. she gives him advice on what jobs he should take, what jobs he shouldn't take. when he was up for a post at arkansas industrial university she suggested that was a bad career move. she was very involved and a tremendous help to him. behind-the-scenes him throughout his academic career. i find this room, this study so evocative because it is right here that we can see woodrow wilson making that transition from academic figure two political figure. ellen wilson helped with all of this. constantly advising woodrow, helping them out and then he decides to run for governor and the reporters descend on prospect. it reporters descend on his study. in the interview him right here in this room. they photograph him in the garden and ellen wilson is quite alarmed. she begins to sense that she is going to lose any privacy she might've had. she is going to lose that carefully constructed, very close-knit home life that she had valued so much with woodrow. that is going to slip away when they plunge into politics. so they moved into prospect house, the young academic couple full of dreams, full of ambitions when she leaves prospect house. they are almost driven out by the trustees in 1910. when she leaves, she is better, she is exhausted and what awaits her is the political life's to check a tremendous toll on her, personally, in terms of her exhaustion, in terms of her energy, and psychologically. >> as his supportive spouse, how did her responsibilities change as she moved from university presidents wife to the first lady of new jersey and then ultimately into the white house? >> she was building on each of the things that she had done before. she had been involved in the small way with social outreach during the time that she was a private person. then when she became first lady of new jersey, she became very interested in social welfare. she actually took woodrow on a tour to new jersey to look at state welfare institutions like the home for the insane were the prisons. she had an early record of activism among social welfare groups. she also had to do a great deal of entertaining during the dinner that was given after woodrow wilson's inauguration in 1902. she invited booker t. washington to the horror of her seven and -- of her southern aunt. she had a great deal of entertaining to do as the presidents wife, more of course when she moved into the governor's mansion. at one point they were down in the summer home, they didn't have a governor's mansion, but the state of new jersey supplied a summer home. a little boy got lost and wandered into the house and came out afterwards and was asked if he met the governor. he said yes and she did me a piece of cake. >> what was her role in 1912? >> i don't think she did enough in the campaign. crexendo's interesting about the campaign was that she was, i believe, the first future first lady to go on a campaign before the convention. she and wilson went down to the south, especially in georgia where she was hailed as much as he was. unfortunately, they lost georgia. they didn't get the delegates from georgia. she had a hand in trying to get woodrow to patch up relations with williams jennings bryan to head three times in the democratic nominee. he was kind of the leader of the and he was very keen on helping woodrow get the nomination. >> she saw an opportunity. wilson had come from a different wing of the party. he had said some things about bryant that some of his enemies had publicized to try to make for it she saw a chance to mend fences. she brought them together and they hit it off very well. brian and wilson had a good relationship down to some things in world war i. she is playing the same kind of role that she played in his academic career heard a very shrewd tactician, a very good facilitator. not out in front or in public, she didn't particularly like that role, either. but she was awfully shrewd. >> theodore roosevelt's challenge to his own party by forming the bull moose party that split the republicans and helped bring woodrow wilson into the white house. hisou have to capitalize political philosophy, what would you say it is? he called himself a protective -- a progressive democrat. a government that made it possible for people to do things for themselves. he said i don't want a government that will take care of me, i want a government that will make sure that other people take their hands off me to that i can take care of myself. updated liberalism. is the individual's happiness, the individual self-realization. that is a great contrast with you to roosevelt. that campaign of 19 12 as the best we've ever had by far. what you get is really a debate of political philosophies between these two men. >> lee is watching us from durango, colorado. thank you for taking my call. about the billon that was so important to ellen wilson and did such a wonderful thing for the city of washington dc. i would like to comment on youth wilson. she was more of a hindrance than a help. joseph thomas c, a major advisor numerousesident wrote letters during his illness and they were discovered unopened until after her death. >> thank you so much for your call. she asks about allen's alley bill. >> when they came to the white house, ellen felt that as long as she was in the white house, not a place for she particularly wanted to be, she would use her position to do as much good as she could. she connected with a group called the national civic federation that had been around for 10 years or so. they were very interested in trying to clean up these little alleyways in between the bigger streets of washington where there were tumbledown shacks, great squalor heard they wanted to tear down all these buildings and do what we would now call urban renewal. then was so interested in is project that you took some of the congressman any white house car through the alleyways to show them the conditions of these houses that were right in the capital. she lobbied them to pass a bill that would enable this because at that time washington was run by congress. they didn't have their own government. she was i think the first lady to lobby for a cause that wasn't her husband's, outside of the white house. she was very effective at doing this. i don't know if you want to talk about all of what happens here -- >> we will come back to the story because it is connected with her passing. wilson decides not to have an inaugural ball, why is that? >> it was partly because of ellen. ellen thought it would really be a commercialization, something frivolous. it should be a solemn occasion. she was a very thrifty woman. woodrow did not make a lot of early days and she had a habit of frugality. somebody once said mrs. wilson looks sweeter every year in that brown dress -- and that brown dress she wears looks sweeter as well. she prided herself on being thrifty. she just thought the inauguration, the not real balls were frivolous. >> will you miss watching us in new york city. in new york there is often mention of the wilson girls in society. can you tell us a bit about their growing up and entering adulthood? >> he brought three daughters to the white house. >> yes and they were all roughly marriageable age when they get into the white house, so they go to balls and parties. allen is on record as saying that she doesn't approve of modern dances like the turkey trot. somebody else writes and says morris slaton who is a gossipy wife of a congressman. she kept a diary and said that they had been seen down at the military barracks turkey trotting with the rest -- with the best of them. she tried to keep a rein on her didhter's, and two of them get married in the white house. considering that she was only in the white house for 17 months before she died, that is quite an accomplishment. she had a very big wedding for her first daughter, who was married in november. she had a very small, quiet waiting for her third daughter, who got married in may very shortly before ellen was bedridden. >> chad is in baltimore. after i wanted to know, eleanor passed away and before arrived. is it true that margaret became lady? facto first >> i think she became the hostess. there has to be an official hostess. one of wilson's cousins helped her out. margaret did not much want to be the official hostess. she wanted to be a singer. she preferred to go to new york which is where she thought there were more opportunities to be a singer. i think the two of them tried to cope with the social duties. the social season was curtailed on the advice of ellen's social secretary ritchie felt that been a precedent stringy harrison administration when his wife had died they had curtailed the social season, so there wasn't too much entertaining that margaret had to do. >> despite her short tenure in the white house, ellen wilson brought on the rose garden. we will learn more about that in our next video. gardenre in prospect here in princeton new jersey. this is the garden that ellen wilson originally designed when she was resident of prospect house from 1902 to 1910. i think that here we see the full expression of ellen's aesthetic vision. oil painter, very competent. she knows a lot of the american impressionist painters of the day. she loves to paint landscapes, and as a corollary to that she laid out this extraordinary people garden at the prospect house. , shelans to cedar trees plans all sorts of flowers. infection loves his garden so much that she hates to leave it when wilson enters politics and he enters princeton. she brings the white house gardener back to this garden at prospect house and says to the white house gardener, thus re- create the rose section of this garden at the white house. ellen wilson could look out of her bedroom window in prospect mansion and look right down and see the flowers all day. similarly, she wanted the president of the united states to be able to see roses when he looked out of his window in the white house. this becomes a famous rose garden at the white house. ellen tragically doesn't live to see the rose garden completed, however. she is dying in the summer of 1914. she is wheeled out into the space outside in her wheelchair and she watches as a gardener works, but she doesn't live to see the completion of this vision she had for roses blooming at the white house. that is a vision that really begins here at aspect of art and in princeton. -- that begins here at prospect garden in princeton. >> here is a photograph of what it looks like you're in the wilson administration and here's what the rose garden looks like today. short tenure in the white house, she did during the 17 months. we talk about the alley clearance bill heard we talk about the rose garden and the fact that she was a professional artist, one of the first ladies who brought her own profession to the white house. how significant was that in setting the standard for future first lady zacher >> i don't think it really set a standard for future first ladies hurried ellen did earn money from selling her paintings that she donated to charity that she had set up for her brother in memory of her brother who had died. i think the only first lady who earn money while she was in the white house was eleanor roosevelt. it did not become a first lady tradition and just as well. aaron in greenfield, california. guest: becky for taking my call. i have enjoyed your show very much. as is my second time calling. the last time i called was through your first season when you were talking about the two wives of john tyler. i very much enjoyed your show so far. about woodrow wilson's first wife ellen. when she passed away, where was she buried and when her husband passed away he was an attorney in the washington d c area. bodyis first wife's reinterred to be buried next to him and also where was his second wife. when she passed away? >> thank you. >> the answer to that question about whether she was reinterred, the answer was no. she is buried in the family plot , the acts and plot in rome georgia. died, edith was pretty determined that he was not going to be buried with ellen. was he had been a president of princeton and the presidents of princeton are buried in a very nice cemetery. there have been some ill feeling and still was, so that was out. in the meantime a very ambitious ship of washington, mr. friedman wanted to get famous people buried in the cathedral so you do have gotten admiral dewey. this is when washington cathedral was still very new. he approached you to about this and she liked the idea. he wanted to make the cathedral washington's westminster abbey and i was told that william howard taft granddaughter told him that when taft heard about this he said don't let those bodysnatchers at the cathedral get me. i think this is wonderful. this presbyterian present -- president was buried in an episcopal cathedral. >> was she sick the entire time that she was in the white house for 13 months? >> as she was. you saw the pictures of her leaving princeton and even being in princeton. she had first developed kidney trouble in 1889 when her third child was born. decided at that time to have no more children. .hey used birth control she probably had been suffering from kidney disease for some time before she got to the white house, would be my guess. >> she was diagnosed with something called braces disease. the >> that is an archaic term for kidney disease. think they had a sophisticated tests as we have now. i was impressed that they were able to diagnose it as early as 1889. roosevelt first wife also died of kidney disease as well. she died quite early in their marriage. woodrow and ellen had been married for quite a while. >> dennis mccarthy wants in on digg woodrow wilson become consumed with ellen's illness. to did affect his performance as president? >> not till the very end. by and large it was kept secret from him. >> i think everyone was in denial. her sheors kept telling would get better. i think the doctors were in denial. i don't think woodrow knew she was dying until the day she died . >> in the last few days when he was at her sick bed every possible minute, the world has literally fallen apart with world war i, and he had to deal with that. it's terrible. >> connie wants to