their theories. >> the big question, and i think, jeff, you said this, a reward would be pennies on the dollars. >> exactly. why isn't there a reward posted? a reward would be pennies on the dollar for what this search is costing. >> thanks for joining us. good evening. it's 11:00 on the east coast. 11:00 a.m. in malaysia. we begin with several pieces of information. item one, the search zone is focusing on the southwest coast of australia. item two, investigators tell us the path it took, the path caught on radar suggests the rout was preprogrammed to hit certain navigational points. item three, the fbi is examining
data from the captain's home flight simulator. we have a lot to get to. first, because these developments have been stacking up day after day, i just want to take a moment tonight to try to get everyone back on the same page with what we know so far. it begins on the morning of the 8th, flight 370 takes off from kuala lumpur bound for beijing. the final stream from the acars data reporting system is received on the ground at 1:07. then at 1:19, the first officer utters first round, leaving malaysian air space, telling controllers, good night. two minutes later, the radar transponder cuts out or is
turned off. thai military radar is following it and between 1:21 and 1:28 a.m. detects that left turn back toward the west and south. at 1:30 a.m., air traffic controllers lose contact with the plane. acars transmission does not happen. this what is believed to be flight 370 is tracked way off course. from there there's no solid information. we only know according to a satellite ping received at 8:11 in the morning, investigators say the jet turned north or south and flew into those two huge arcs of territory in open ocean. investigators now are focusing closer on that southern route. we'll talk to a u.s. navy commander involved in that. a major development, one that everyone hopes will bring badly needed answers.
more now from kuala lumpur. [ speaking foreign language ] >> reporter: a mother's grief and frustration finally boiling over. relatives of the missing passengers today storming into a normally subdued briefing room, demanding answers. after about five chaotic minutes, she and others are dragged out by malaysian officials. the malaysian government says they regret the incident, but the reality is neither they nor anyone seems much closer to solving the mystery of what happened to flight 370. could a clue be found in the pilot's home flight simulator? malaysian authorities say data
from the simulator was deleted on february 3rd, more than a month before the plane went missing. the fbi today saying it has sent a copy of the simulator's hard drive to its forensics lab in quantico, virginia, hoping to recover the deleted files. the malaysian authorities also disclosed a tantalizing detail. they have new radar information about the plane's path, provided by another country. what exactly it shows the malaysians aren't saying. meanwhile, operational crews are beginning to narrow their search, believing it's more likely the missing jet traveled along the southern corridor, away from the heavily pop populated asian continent. investigators say they're focusing on an area roughly the size of new mexico, about 1600 miles off their southwest coast, using what information they know about currents and the plane's possible last position to make an educated guess on just where it might be. >> we are going to talk to a u.s. navy commander in that region. kyung lah joins us.
you were in the room with heart-breaking pleas from relatives of the missing passengers. are they feeling that same frustration, that sense of just kind of anger? >> reporter: that anger and anguish, yes. that's felt across all nationalities, all the families here. and while it is a mystery for the rest of the world, for them it's very much about the loss of human life. this mystery about what's happened to fathers, sons, mothers, daughters. but as far as what that other woman said, calling the malaysian government liars, we haven't heard that from the people who are malaysian citizens. because frankly we haven't had any access to them. as far as the chinese families, they absolutely feel that across the board, we're hearing it out of beijing and here. they don't believe the malaysian government has been transparent at all. they feel they have botched this investigation.
the government for its part, anderson, saying that the best way that they can help these families is to simply find the plane. >> kyung, appreciate the reporting from kuala lumpur. later on in the program i'm going to speak to the family of paul weeks who was on the plane and was on the way to a new job in mongolia. he's an engineer. he actually gave his wedding ring and watch to his wife in case something happened. i'm going to talk to his brother and sister about that. i want to bring in evan perez breaking the navigation story for us tonight. some of this can get really technical, evan. just to start with explain exactly what a way-point is and what is significant about this information we're getting. >> think about your gps. you can enter longitude and latitude in your gps to try to direct you, navigate you to a particular place. now in the sky for pilots, they also have to include altitude. so essentially it's a place in the sky where a pilot can direct -- to direct an aircraft and the computer system on board
the aircraft to take the aircraft. and so the navigational systems on the plane essentially uses these five digit codes to direct where to take the aircraft, anderson. >> so explain the breaking news on this tonight. what is new that we now know? >> well, one of the things that we've been wondering is how the investigators know that the aircraft deviated from its course. we know there is some radar. but how can they know with certainty? we know that the investigators have discovered that the aircraft went to two specific way-points away from the course thought was scheduled to go towards beijing. so what they believe this indicates is that whoever was doing this, whoever moved the aircraft off its scheduled course, specifically was directing it to these particular way-points. again, away from its scheduled course. >> if it was being manually flown it probably would not have headed to these way-points, is that correct?
>> that's the understanding the investigators are looking at. now when a pilot normally turns an aircraft using the yoke, they feel if somebody was manually turning the aircraft it wouldn't specifically go to these particular way-points. so they believe this indicates perhaps that someone with some skill, someone who had some knowledge, entered these way-points for the aircraft to go to these particular places. and then of course it disappears. it doesn't answer the final question that we all have which is who did this, why and where did the aircraft go after it disappeared, anderson. >> and when were these entered in. evan perez, appreciate it. this seems like evidence pointing towards human intervention. the question was it pilots doing their jobs or someone up to no good? with us former cia counterintelligence expert and others.
i'm confused by these way-points and what the significance of the idea of having these two way-points is. can you try to explain it? >> a way-point really is a definition of the route in the sky. >> that's something that somebody would enter in. >> absolutely. >> but two particular different ones? >> we keep going back to there were two particular way-points. i don't see where those way-points came into play on this. i see the airplane might have been directed toward them. as a matter of fact, i looked on an en route chart to try to find the way-points that allegedly they turned toward. i still contend that the way-point they were headed for was a diversionary airport and specifically entered in by the captain. that's conjecture. i may fall on my sword on that one. but i don't see where the acars machine could actually -- i know through our dispatch process where they would know exactly what was put into that machine.
they just don't know. that's not information they utilize or is helpful to them specifically. >> and jeff, the fact that this pilot deleted information from his simulator, you can look at it with a nefarious interpretation of that or he's an organized guy. he's cleaning up his files. what do you make of it? >> we only have part of the information on that. in order to determine whether it was nefarious or not or benign we need to know the other part. that is were there other flights on that simulator that he didn't delete. so in other words, what's left on the hard drive of that simulator and what is absent on the hard drive of that simulator. if only selective routes have been taken out of it, only a portion of his experience on the simulator has been deleted, then that makes me raise my eyebrow and says i find it difficult to find a benign explanation for that. >> les? >> i understand your point, jeff. but the way i'm looking at it is from the standpoint of maybe there was a flight that -- pilots are organized people.
and they feel that maybe the hard drive is going to take too much room and they delete a particular flight. but on a humorous note it might have been a profile he might have been practicing for his recurrent training and just a profile because this is not the kind of thing you can really do. but he may have deleted it because he was embarrassed it didn't go well or something to that effect. >> it's open to interpretation. mary, you've been involved with the fbi in these investigations. are there circumstances where they couldn't retrieve the data because now the fbi and quantico willing be looking at it? >> yes. in circumstances where they can't retrieve the data is in instances where someone has erased it and knows how to do it effectively. you don't just erase you overwrite it or destroy certain things. you have to not just erase it but take extra pains. that too might be very interesting to show how they have overwritten it or erased it or deleted certain things. when i was inspector general we worked aviation crimes with the
fbi's aviation crimes unit. and we many times had to recover computer data. they were pretty good. so i would bet on the fbi. i think they will be able to get whatever was on there. i just have to believe they're going to be able to see what those files were. unless -- and i would be surprised to learn this -- unless this erasure was so good and competent it wasn't just erased but overwritten. >> how complex an operation is this? might it take weeks or months? >> i don't think so, anderson. you're talking about hours and days rather than weeks and months. they've got a tremendous capability. but remember just as in this case we've had countries who have been reluctant to share with us their radar information because it shows what their true capabilities are, the united states if they have information that tells us well no good will come of it, we can't help those missing by releasing this in such a way and show our capability, they may not do so.
i would hope that they would err on the side of getting that information out there. but we too have to protect our capabilities. >> mary, you raise an interesting point. that even if they can't find what the information that's been overwritten, the mere fact that information was intentionally overwritten can be meaningful. >> it depends what the erasure is. i guess i have to confess this. all of us who have flight simulators, you want to land, try to see if you can land. most of us don't do it successfully. but you want to try to see if you can land at the weirdest places on earth. you want to see if you're really good. so just flying around the earth and seeing different places might not tell us much of anything. that's what you do with -- like a microsoft flight simulator. where they went, what was there, what wasn't there, what's missing, the pains taken to take it away, if anyone else was on the flight simulator. all those things. i'm pretty confident if it's there to be gotten that the fbi will get it. they're just so good at it.
>> jeff, the fbi is also we're told analyzing the copilot's computer. you see a number of sort of cumulative acts, operational acts. what do you mean by that? >> what i mean by that, anderson, is nothing significant in the crime or terrorism world happens without some planning, casing and the act itself if you're going to be successful. those are the operational acts that lead up to a major incident or terrorism crime. rehearsals on the flight simulator might be interesting to go back and see what other routes had this chap captain flown in the months and weeks prior to this particular incident. >> on the simulator you mean. >> or in real life. what other trips has he taken. why as a senior captain did he bid -- the airline people will know what i'm speaking about that he bid this trip. was this a good trip for a captain with his seniority or was this kind of a dog of a trip but he bid it? that could raise questions about
okay, there's not a good reason for him to take this trip. there must be something else afoot. >> mary, do you agree with that? >> yeah. but there's a really important point, too. he makes a great point. because just flying on the simulator we can all fly weird places on the simulator. but you would have had to have gone there to make the contacts. because what's the point of knowing how to land someplace if once you get there you can't do anything with yourself, with the plane, with the plot. so there has to be more than that on the computer. there has to be additional contacts. by the way, since it was the copilot who spoke last and whose voice sounds normal, what we also want to know is much more information about him and is this how he spoke to air traffic controllers? other people who fly with him need to provide a lot of information about him. he's the only one we know that's living and talking when the turn is made. >> again, though, mechanical anomalies is still very much at play for investigators. that's something we're going to look at tonight as well. jeff beaty, good to have you on. mary schiavo as well. les abend will stick around.
two of his colleagues will join us. we'll run through all the evolving scenarios investigators are looking at now, including some you've been tweeting us about. tweet us using #ac360. follow me @andersoncooper. next intensifying focus off australia. we're going to hear from a commander in the u.s. navy's seventh fleet which has planes and vessels in the area. later we'll dig deeper into the possibility of a fire on board and parallels to the crash of swiss air flight 15 years ago. what can we learn from that flight that might be applicable to this? we'll be right back. ameriprise asked people a simple question: in retirement, will you outlive your money? uhhh. no, that can't happen. that's the thing, you don't know how long it has to last.
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>> we have put every resource we have available at the disposal of the search process. there has been close cooperation with the malaysian government. and so not just ntsb but fbi. anybody who typically deals with anything related to our aviation system is available. and so our thoughts and prayers are with the families, but i want them to be assured that we consider this a top priority and we're going to keep on working. >> and chief among the hardest working people on the planet tonight members of the u.s. navy's seventh fleet in that southern search area off australia on the ocean and above it using aircraft that can detect almost anything. 26 countries involved. cooperation according to the commander is mostly good. though indonesia has refused to allow a number of search planes to go through the air space.
commander marks joins us now. commander marks, i know you can't comment on reports about indonesia not allowing u.s. aircraft to fly over air space today. but i want to ask you on this southern route, to you is that the most hopeful? is that the most important area to search now? >> i think you just have to look at the areas that have been least searched. so we first covered the gulf of thailand. we completely saturated that. we moved to the andeman sea. we completely saturated that. flying from kuala lumpur, we penetrated deeply into the bay of bengal. that's from our side because the indians were flying over there, too. i think really it's simply a matter of this southern area has been searched the least. so we're out here and australia is out here. and at this point that's all you can do. you find the areas where you haven't looked, where there may have been information that came
from satellites whether that's military or governmental or commercial, and you go to those. and so that's what we're doing. >> if you are able to find debris, does that automatically mean that you would be able to figure out where the plane went down if in fact the plane did go down in the water? would you be able to automatically figure out based on tides and time? >> great question. and the currents and the wind and the sea state plays such a huge factor. being so long from that initial flight takeoff, it's such a huge variable. so what we normally do in the u.s. navy, when we come upon this situation we immediately launch a helicopter and we establish a central point where we think the last known contact was. that's called a datum. so from this datum we calculate the currents and the winds. and that is why these search
areas slowly expand. and so for what we usually do for a search and rescue you look at that first 72 hours. it can grow fairly big but within your helicopter range. well, now that is completely a different scenario. and the current and the winds and the set and drift on there play a huge factor. we can track that slightly -- we can drop a sonar buoy and get a kind of a gps position that tracks the environmentals, but it's such a long period of time it is certainly a huge factor. and really no one can say if a piece of debris started in one area where it is ten days later. >> this may be a dumb question, but are you still hopeful? are you losing hope? with each day that passes by this gets more and more difficult. >> you know, this what is we train for. and our pilots, our air crews,
even our maintainers on the ground, our mission is to fly these planes and to search. and the way i think of it personally is, each of those people on that aircraft, they have families associated with them and friends. and i know they want closure no matter what happens. and i know if it were me and my family i'd want the u.s. navy out here looking and that's what we're doing. >> commander marks, i'm glad you're out there. thank you. >> you're welcome. thank you. >> incredibly difficult task right now. digging deeper, i want to bring in a veteran of these kinds of things, david gallo co-leader of the search for air france flight 447 also retired airline pilot ron brown. david, you heard the commander there saying they're searching off the coast of australia because they've already basically thoroughly searched the northern part of the indian ocean. do you basically just keep on expanding out until they've searched the entire area the plane could possibly have reached given the amount of fuel it had?
>> anderson, we need to find some clue about where that aircraft is. we can't be mapping the entire indian ocean. and if that plane impacted the water, even came down gently there's going to be some clue. and the navy is well suited to be able to find those bits of that plane. i'm hoping still with the families that it's sitting on land someplace. but this is the way to exclude the ocean. >> david, it's interesting though what the commander said which was that given the amount of time that has gone by, even if they find some debris on the water, that doesn't guarantee that they'll be able to pinpoint where the plane entered the water if in fact it did, correct? >> right. well, air france 447 it was five days. i thought that was a long time after the tragedy before the first wreckage was found. but it was two years, not continuously at sea but giving mobilizations and the like, two years before we found that aircraft on the bottom. so you're right. it's no guarantee. but you know what, there's some very talented modelers out there that can look at wind currents with models and then backtrack
that information to try to find the location. and even if it's not exactly right or if there's a lot of error in it it cuts down the search area. could cut it down dramatically. it's important stuff. >> ron i've been getting a lot of questions on twitter about this new search area. maria asks, how busy is the flight path? did the plane have enough fuel to get that far? as far as we know it had enough fuel. hello, we have breaking news now on the search for malaysia airlines flight 370. the australian broadcasting corporation is reporting that authorities may have found objects related to the missing plane, and they are citing the prime minister tony abbott. australia has been leading the search in the far southern reaches of the plane's possible path. we're also hearing that the prime minister may in fact address parliament say thing is
new and credible information. it's come to light from satellite imagery. two possible objects related to the search have been dent tide. they have deployed an aircraft to inspect these objects. three more aircraft will follow. once those extra aircraft arrive, they will conduct an extensive search. we're being told that the task of locating these objects is extremely difficult right now. australia's search operations centered in the city of perth. andrew stevens joins us from there now live. andrew, what are the details that you have on what they may or may not have found. my mistake, we do not have andrew. but he has been covering this. what we have been hearing over the last few hours is that this search area has dramatically narrowed from an area of almost
3 million square miles, now down to an area about the size of the state of colorado, about 110,000 square miles. still, a massive area, but we know that the focus has been on the southern arc, right at the extreme end of that southern arc off the coast of western australia. and apparently the officials managed to narrow down the scope of the search area, because they yielded a lot more information from the satellite pings, which the plane had been giving off every hour for about seven our eight hours or so. so what we know right now is that we're hearing from australian authorities that there is possible debris related to this plane. 13 days now or 12 days now they have been searching for this missing flight. and now we have what could be
credible evidence of debris floating in the water. of course, there are still many unanswered questions, what is that debris, how far has it floated. richard quest is standing by in new york with more on this. and so richard, could this be the break that everyone has been waiting for? >> oh, absolutely. you have to put it in terms that it's unlikely that the australian prime minister would be holding a news conference if there wasn't a high degree -- no one is going to say, and i suspect he's not going to come out and specifically say because there would have -- they have have to retrieve the debris and ensure that there is a very high degree of certainty about it, but bearing in mind the aus t l
australians in the last 48 hours took over the searching down in the south china sea -- sorry, the south indian ocean. enormous number of assets have been deployed, including the "uss kidd" which sent its planes to the western coast of australia for that very purpose, john. they said it would be easier for long-range search to search out of perth rather than being stuck on a ship in the middle of the ocean. so it's fascinating tonight that the australian prime minister is going to make this press statement, floating debris believed to be potentially from malaysian airlines flight 370. we have had this sort of news before, just a week ago with the chinese photographs, the satellite photographs. but i'm supposing that there must be a fair degree of
certainty or at least confidence in what they're finding. >> we understand that prime minister tony abbott of australia has spoken to his malaysian counterpart about this news which we are now getting to us here at cnn. that two possible objects have been found. richard, sorry to interrupt, but this does not mean that this is where the plane went down because this debris could have floated quite a distance. >> in the number of days since the incident happened, absolutely. but one thing i do know is that the oceanographers will not only have done the models of where debris would have floated but they would have gone further and written specific models for this area. so they will now be thinking the, we know the time, we know the water temperature, we know the winds, we know the prevailing weather during the last week. they will be factoring that in,
the oceanographers, and they are extremely experienced at being able to take that information and work out roughly where the debris will be. now how far, if you're asking me how far could that debris have moved over the last ten days, i don't know. but if you look at the map that we're seeing at the moment and you interpret where the route of the aircraft was, and what could have happened in the last 10, 12 days, then you start to see why the australians believe that there is a strong level of confidence. and on one other point, in the last days or so, more and more people have come to the conclusion that it is the south china -- sorry, the south indian ocean, i beg your pardon, the south indian ocean which was the more realistic of the two paths, not the northern path or western path up towards india and kazakhstan. >> richard, what we are hearing
is that the debris was detected by satellite imagery. a very similar situation to what we had with the chinese satellites about a week or so ago, detecting that debris off the coast of vietnam. that turned out to be a false start. but a lot of people were talking back then this was very large debris to be spotted by a satellite. so i know we're speculating here, but is that going to be a similar situation now, that this will be large pieces of debris because it has been seen by a satellite. >> the problem with the chinese pictures, almost from the moment -- there were many of us, myself included, that hoped it was correct. but quite quickly, experts on the 777 said -- because the chinese -- last friday the chinese put out a statement which they actually said how big the pieces of debris were. they said they were 70 x 70. quickly, experts of the 777 said there is no single piece of the
aircraft that measures those dimensions. so that hugely assisted them in discounting that relatively quickly. i'm assuming whoever's satellite they have used in this situation, they've done exactly the same process. they've locked up the debris. they measured it with a high degree of certainty. we have had debris from the moment this incident happened. we had a table drum -- >> richard, sorry if i may interrupt. we have andrew teastevens on th line now. he's covering this story for us from perth where the search on the australian end has been based from, perth is the state capital of western australia. andrew, very early stages but it is coming from the prime minister's office. they are deploying assets to try and inspect this debris from flight 370. what else can you tell us? >> that's right, john.
at this point we have to be very cautious. what we can tell you is that the australian state-owned media operation here is saying that tony abbott, the australian prime minister is telling the house that two pieces of debris have been spotted in the southern indian ocean. he says that they could possibly be related to mh-370. certainly at this stage, not saying definitely. a plane has been diverted from its earlier search area to the destination where this debris is believed to be floating. that is due to be on the scene around about now, john. and we understand another three aircraft have already been dispatched to that same area.
at the moment, what we can see is tony abbott is being reported by the australian broadcasting corporation, those two pieces of objects have been found, and the possibility is that they are from mh-370. >> andrew, we've had this situation over the last 24 hours or so that there's been this new radar information coming from the pings which were given off hourly by flight 370 and with that satellite information they have managed to narrow down this search area. so describe the area that they have been looking at, which is where it appears that these objects are. >> yes, that's right. i mean, it has been narrowed down significantly, given the fact that the malaysians only 24 hours ago saying they are putting equal emphasis on the northern and southern corridors, which is a combined area,
roughly the size of the australian land mass. the southern corridor, they have narrowed their search down to that. so within that, there is a zone of 300,000, which they are focusing on at the moment, john. we don't know why specifically they are focusing on this area. it is being reported that they have satellite intelligence from the u.s. and also from australian satellite sources, as well. obviously, satellites and radar is an important instrument. [ indiscernible ]
more so there is a satellite surveillance facility in the center of australia, which is jointly operated but effectively run by the americans. we don't know what satellite information is coming from there. certainly it's been established from our u.s. sources the southern corridor has been a more likely search target based as well on the simple process of elimination, given that the northern corridor where it consists of at least 11 countries, some of which have very significant radar and technology, such as china, nothing has been seen or reported certainly from the northern corridor. so the u.s. has been deploying assets along the southern corridor and helping australia
with the search. >> andrew, stand by. for anybody just joining us, this is the breaking new. the australian broadcasting news is quoting that the prime minister is saying two possible objects related to the search for flight 370 have been identified by satellite in the southern indian ocean and right now a royal australian air force plane is heading to -- excuse me -- is heading to that area to try and find -- establish exactly what this debris may be. other planes are heading there, as well. we know that the meshes are there, new zealand also has planes and assets in the region. but it is the australians who are taking the lead in all of this. i would like to go back to richard quest right now. richard, we had a very similar situation to this about a week or so ago. we were just talking about it
just a short moment ago when they did find debris on the satellite image by the chinese. turned out to be nothing. this seems a lot more substantive. okay, do we have richard? okay. i'm sorry, richard has gone to work the phones to try to find out more about what we're dealing with. we still have andrew stevens on the line with us right now. okay, one moment, please. so andrew, we were talking about this area. we're also looking at a situation that this is a very remote part of the world and it's also a very deep ocean. so if there is debris on the surface, there's the possibility there could be a lot of debris below the service with a lot of challenges trying to get there. >> absolutely, and also we need to take into account the
currents and tidals, so any debris that's on the surface will have moved significant distances, perhaps hundreds of kilometers from the zone where that debris may have been found. so a lot facing the searchers, again the fact that some places in the indian ocean is 7,000 meters deep and the average depths is around 4,000 meters. so there is enormous problems and challenges still facing the searches. it's also key to note that the devices which are triggered when a plane crashes into the sea, will send out distress signals for about one month. so we're about halfway into that one month. so there is a time limit on locating this aircraft.
[ indiscernible ] so huge amounts of challenges for the search parties, but we can't rule out how significant this latest news is, because we have gone from an area of 2.2 million square kilometers down to what could be a significant sighting in the southern ocean. resources are now being focused in the southern ocean, in this area of the southern ocean. so just to recap, we do know that an orion aircraft is expected to be on the scene where the satellite images picked up two pieces of debris. we don't know with any degree of certainty if they are related to the plane, but an orion is due there about now. it is 11:45 in the morning here
in perth and three more planes dispatched. so we should get some better understanding of exactly what is there. >> we have andrew stevens on the line with us in perth. we have richard quest on the line in new york. i would like both of you to stay with us. we do have -- i would like to read that statement once more in case you are joining us that we have from the australian prime minister. this is what he told parliament a short time ago. new and credible information has come to light for the search of flight 370 in the southern india ocean. information based on satellite imagery of two possible objects related to the search have been identified. a royal australian aircraft has been diverted to inspect the object and due to arrive about now. the statement reads, three more
aircraft will also follow and conduct a more expensive search. the task of locating these objects is extremely difficult. the prime minister has spoken to his malaysian counterpart. that is what we're being told. the prime minister has said to the house just a short time ago in the australian capital. richard quest is on the line with us right now. we know, richard, there are a lot of assets in this region, including the most advanced sub hunter that the americans have, the p-8. no doubt that will be deployed in some manner to look at this debris? >> oh, absolutely. they will be sending everything they've got and a great deal more over to find this. the fact that the prime minister -- now, look, john, you're much more of a student of australian politics than i am. but the fact that the pm chose to make a statement in the
house, new and credible information is the phrase he uses. not just we found some debris, but credible information. based on satellite imagery of objects possibly related to the search. and listen to this, following specialist analysis of this imagery, two possible objects have been identified. now, i'm guessing the phraseology there was, he doesn't say we found two objects and we're looking to identify them. he says the objects have been identified. so i'm starting to come to the conclusion that the prime minister wouldn't make such a statement to the house if he didn't have a very strong view that this was not only credible, but had been interpreted and accepted. >> okay.
so we're now at the stage where after 12 days of what has been a very frustrating search, possibly the biggest search ever for a missing civilian -- for a missing airliner. we now are at the position where the australian aircraft is over the area where two objects have been identified and we are awaiting official word. it is pretty much my understanding, that that plane is there and that it is due to arrive back in australia, on australian soil in about four hours from now. no doubt if there is any information to come from, this it will be radioed back. so we should find out exactly what may or may not have taken place or been found rather in that search. but at this stage, as you said,
richard, this is looking to be by far the most promising lead that we have had since this began. >> and it is also a reflection, i think, as andrew stevens was just reporting from perth a moment ago, of the number of assets being deployed. when the royal australian air force were given the job of searching the south indian ocean, they took at it with gusto in the sense they were very honest about it. they made it quite clear that this was a huge task. adding to australia's own very sophisticated ability, remember, it was the australian air investigation that investigated
the engine explosion out of singapore. they have enormous experience in their own right doing searches. you know this better than i will, john. as a maritime nation, as an island, albeit a continent, australian has exceptionally good maritime searching abilities. so what the prime minister says, look, i can't say it is and i can't say it isn't. but having done this long enough, you get a feeling of what might be happening and the pm speaking to the house in that way is very strong, credible evidence. >> absolutely. richard, stand by for us. i would like to go back to andrew stevens. andrew, it was just yesterday that the australians were saying that this search of this area could take up to weeks and now they have narrowed it down to what could be a matter of hours. in fact, we are expecting some
kind of statement from prime minister tony abbott maybe in about 25 minutes from now. >> i think the key here is the information and where it's coming from. this is satellite information, so the physical search in the absence of any specific information about pin pointing areas by satellite, which have taken several weeks, even though it has been significantly refined as we now know, it still would have been several weeks to comb that area. now, though, satellite information, we don't know where that's come from, but it is very sophisticated satellite operations, operated jointly by the australians and the u.s. in central australia. so the information obviously
coming from satellites, that allows them to pinpoint this area and as richard said, given the number of false starts here and the fact that the malaysian government has taken so much criticism, tony abbott is going to be very hesitant to say anything that he may have to backtrack on. so at this stage, what he's telling the house is very significant. remember that there are currents, we are 13 days into the search. so whatever debris seen there, it will have moved considerable distances from a crash site. so there's still a lot of work to do.
we just need to underline we don't know whether this debris is linked. it was a false start with the chinese last week, which turned out to be nothing. s >> okay. if you are just joining us, the news is now coming from the australian prime minister that significant objects have been identified in the southern indian ocean. he released this information just a short time ago to the australian parliament. this is what he said. >> the australian maritime safety authority has received information based on satellite imagery of objects possibly related to the search. following specialist analysis of this satellite imagery, two possible objects related to the search have been identified. we must keep this in mind, the
task of locating these objects will be extremely difficult, and it may turn out that they are not related to the search for flight mh-370. nevertheless, i did want to update the house on this potentially important development. >> okay, that was the australian prime minister tony abbott addressing the lower house of the house of parliament just a short time ago. richard, what was notable there, and understandable is that word of caution coming from tony abbott that this may not actually turn out to be anything, but it seems at this stage that it might just be. >> indeed. tony abbott, now we heard a little bit more. he has given a caveat to it, that it might not be 370. so he's -- i don't use the word, i would never say this about a prime minister, that he's hedging his bets, but the fact that he made the statement, he didn't have to make a statement, john. he could have just simply put
out a press release. the royal australian air force could have put out a statement. the maritime search authority could have just put out a statement. he says it's credible. he says it's confirmed or satellite has confirmed the objects. i'm guessing and assuming having looked at this for some time that they have very -- they have got a very realistic view that this is what they've been searching for. let us be clear, it would be a blessing that they have found something in the south indian ocean. but this would really just be the beginning of the next part of the whole process. so in other words, we find more debris, work out the back workout where the debris may have come from using currents and temperatures and slowly start to see if you can find the
bigger debris field. what we know, john, is the debris field, and there's always something on a plane that floats. the life rafts, the seat cushions. part of the wing, part of the tail. the moment they find a sizable debris field, and there should still be something there, they are very much closer to finding the aircraft itself. >> and let's just look at some of the politics of how this played out. >> this is cnn breaking news. >> i'm don lemon in new york. and the breaking news is that new information is coming from australia being reported by the australian broadcasting company that two objects possibly belonging to that missing flight 370, two objects have been found off the coast of australia.
david suchi, who is a former faa safety investigator, this appears to be a significant development, the most significant development we've had so far. >> very much so, don. the report says, credible information. how long has it been since we heard that? >> this is verbatim, the prime minister of australia says, new and credible information has come to light in relation to the search for malaysia airlines flight mh-370 in the southern indian ocean. the australian maritime safety authority has received information based on satellite imagery of objects possibly related to the search. following specialist analysis of the satellite imagery, two possible objects related to the search have been identified. i can inform the house that a royal australian air force orion has been diverted to attempt to
locate the objects. this orion is expected to arrive in the area about this time. three more aircraft will follow this orion. they are tasked for more intensive followup search. we're also hearing there will be a press conference coming from sho shortly. the information is coming from the prime minister. it is almost midnight here in the united states eastern time, and it's almost noon in perth, australia. i want to go now to mary schiavo. she is standing by now. again, this is a very significant development. i don't think australia would be doing this if they didn't think there was some importance to this, mary. >> oh, i agree. i am sure they realize how important, even if this is the wreckage, even if it's the very first piece, the clue also
tumble forth, was there a fire, an explosion, do they have the pitting p pitting patterns. the evidence can finally start, and most important they can take where the pieces are, reverse the current track, find out where the currents have led over the past 12 days, and then start in earnest the search for the block boxes. >> australia now saying that they believe they have found two objects that are significant here that may be related to the missing malaysian airline mh-370. that plane vanished on march 8. it's been missing now for 13 days without a clue. they found two objects in the southern indian ocean. a p-3 ship has been directed to this new destination and three other aircraft are being dispatched, as well. again, it is almost midnight here in the u.s. eastern time
and noon in perth, australia, where this is very close. m let's go to cnn's richard quest. australia released information saying they were going to expand their search off their coast and now we're finding this. >> let's remember what the prime minister of australia said in the house of parliament. he said the australian maritime safety authority has received satellite imagery of objects. now, listen to this. he says -- he calls this credible, tony abbott says it's credible, and he says, two possible objects have been identified? does he have stronger evidence that they are from 370? we know now that aircraft are heading over in that direction. the pm has warned that retrieving those objects will not be easy.
but this, don, is -- you don't get a prime minister standing up in the house of commons or the houses of parliament in australia and using words like that. he caveated it by saying it may not be anything, but this is the best we've had so far, don. this is the strongest lead. >> and richard quest, we want to hear from the prime minister just a short time ago. listen. >> the australian maritime safety authority has received information based on satellite imagery of objects possibly related to the search. following specialist analysis of this satellite imagery, two possible objects related to the search have been identified. >> that's the australian prime minister speaking there at the house of representatives just a short time ago. richard quest, stand by. mary schiavo, stand by. everyone stand by.
also expect the president to address russia's annexation of crimea? >> reporter: probably so just because this dominated the discussion so much. the g-7 meeting which was held as a part of the nuclear security summit wasn't really, the move wasn't originally part of the plan. it wasn't because of the esflepevents that happened in ukraine. suspending with the biggest economies in the world. russia was supposed to host in june in sochi. it is a big step. the question, though, is, specially among critics, will this have any effect? the u.s.ed administration, other countries repeatedly said, there is still a door open to discussion, to a diplomatic solution. there is a chance for deescalation. we can change things if russia decides to change course. for everything that has been said and all the talks that have
been held, not only among western countries but talks with russia, nothing has changed that course. so it remains to be seen now what could constitute escalation for additional and more damaging sanctions to be issued and what could be deescalation. we ask that question yesterday. >> michelle, we're going to jump out. the president has now taken the stage with the prime minister of the netherlands. the two men are addressing the congregated press there. let's listen to what they are saying. >> i am proud to present our summit communique to you today. building of the progress remains early in washington and seoul. this communique sets the bar even higher. we have taken major steps towards meeting all three main objectives of the nss process. i will say a few words about each. the first objective is to reduce the amount of dangerous nuclear material in the world.
the less dangerous nuclear material there is and the better the nuclear security, the smaller the chance that terrorists will be able to get hold of it. it's that simple. i'm pleased that the 53 countries and four international organizations here have confirmed their commitment to continue reducing stocks of dangerous nuclear material, uranium and plutonium. a number of countries have announced the intention to hand over the highly dangerous to the u.s. as xhar chair of the summit, i naturally welcome these announcements. we are also making progress on the second objective, improving the security of nuclear and radioactive material. we have confirm our ambition to improve the security of materials that can be used to make nuclear weapons and the security of radiological sources that terrorists could use to make dirty bombs. the commitment of the nsa became more complete. the fear that the dirty bomb
would cause doesn't bear thinking about, not to mention the possible disruption to society. i'm specially pleased that we are including this area. furthermore, the nss countries have encouraged implementation of the iaa nuclear security guidelines. a significant number of us have decided to take this commitment even further. as chair of the summit, i'm delighted to announce that two thirds of the countries on the initiative of the united states, korea and the netherlands, have pledged to incorporate these important recommendations into the national legislation. this is a message and represents potential progress. i can't stress enough how important it is. fortunately, in a group of countries supporting this initiative is growing. our ultimate goal is, of course, for all nss countries to follow this league and set an example for other countries.
he many pleas i am pleased with the growing awareness of nuclear material. it is important to determine the origin of the material and trace that. >> we are listening. michelle kosinski, i wanted to bring you in briefly before president obama speaks. the president will also probably at some point have to address a rather large domestic issue which is brewing. the white house plans to change and modify and in some ways do away with the current system of the nsa collecting telephone data. can you explain what this change will be? >> reporter: yes. feel free to cut me off when this starts again. there is a delay in what i can see and here. we wonder how much this issue came up in discussions with other european nations also. during this series of meetings. it has been this highly controversial, really played out in the media, irritation, of how much spying was gone on. similar, was overplayed. it came out later that we know
that the u.k., germany, other european countries do this same kind of data collection as well as spying. here is what the president wants to do. he has been working with congress. soon, in the coming days, his administration says, he wants to propose a law that would change the way this is done. right now, the nsa is the one that collects this bulk data, phone records, that americans make on a day it day basis. they keep it for five years. what's been highly controversial in the past is that the nsa can essentially choose its own investigations and authorize them. the president wants the phone companies to collect the data and keep it possibly. although, that might be done by some third party. the administration didn't make that clear. the president wants it such to be such that the nsa would have to go to a judge for every search it would want to do. that judge would have to say yes or no as to whether that specific phone number could be likely tied to terrorism.
there are some other changes too. keep in mind, this is a proposed piece of legislation. what it would do would take the nsa out of the business of collecting and storing the data. of core, turse, the nsa would s be able to gain access to the data when needed. the bigger question is, will congress pass this law? how long could that take? in the meantime, the president has authorized for 90 days an will continue in 90-day increments to authorize the collection and the processing of that data as it stands right now. the president is about to speak now. let's go back to the the hague to listen to president obama. >> i would like to say a few words about the tragedy that recently took place back in the united states. over the weekend, a massive landslide swept through a tiny town called oso in washington state. while i won't get ahead of the ongoing response and rescue
operations, we know that part of this tightly knit community has been lost. first responders acted bravely despite still dangerous conditions. the american red cross has opened multiple shelters and the people of washington state have been quick to help and comfort their fellow citizens. i just spoke to governor insly who swiftly declared a state of emergency and i signed that emergency declaration to make sure he has got all the resources he needs from my administration. they are in contact with them on an on going basis, fema and the army core of engineers has been on site to offer their assistance and expertise. i would ask all americans to send their thoughts and prayers to washington state and the community, oso, and the families and friends of those who continue to be missing. we hope for the best but we recognize this is a tough situation. now, as for our work here in the hague, i want to just repeat
the extraordinary work that mark has done in helping to organize this. some of the people of the netherlands, your hospitality has been remarkable. your organization has been flawless. to all the people who were involved in putting this together, including those that are putting up with what i caused, i'm told there is a dutch word that captures the spirit that doesn't translate exactly into english but let me say my first visit to the netherlands has been truly kozelik. i convened the first nuclear summit in washington four years ago, because i believed we need a series and sustained global effort to deal with one of the greatest threats to international security, the specter of nuclear terrorism.
we made further progress at our second summit in seoul and under your prime minister's stewardship, we have built on that progress here. keeping with the spirits of these summits, this was not about vague commitments but about taking tangible and concrete steps to secure more of the world's nuclear material so it never falls in the hands of terrorists. in particular, i want to come mend bell judge and it will i for completing the removal of their excess supplies of uranium and plutonium. japan announced it will work with the united states to eliminate hundreds of kilograms of weapons from one of their experimental reactors. that's enough for dozens of nuclear weapons. dozens of other nations have agreed to take specific steps towards improving nuclear security in their own countries and to support our global efforts. some have pledged to convert
their research reactors to low enriched uranium which cannot be used to make a bomb. we have set new goals for implemented or nuclear security measures, including sharing more information to ensure we are all living up to our commitments. i have made it clear the united states will continue to do our part. our nuclear regulator will develop new guidelines to strengthen cybersecurity at our nuclear power plants. we have pledged to pursue the production of a key medical isotope used to treat illnesses like cancer without relying on weapons useable materials and we are going to work to install more radiation detection equipment at ports and transit sites to combat nuclear smuggling. all of this builds on our previous efforts. 12 countries and two dozen nuclear facilities around the world have now rid themselves entirely of highly enriched uranium and plutonium. dozens of nations have boosted
security or created new centers to improve nuclear security and training. the international atomic energy agency is now sfrotronger and m countries have ratified the treaties in international partnerships at the heart of our efforts. we have seepn a fundamental shit in our approach. we still have a lot more to do to ensure the ambitious goals we set years ago. i believe this is he sengs to the security of the entire world and given the catastrophic consequences of even a single attack, we can not be complacent. i'll clothes by reminding everybody that one of the achievements of our first summit in 2010 was ukraine's decision to remove all its highly enriched uranium from its
nuclear fuel sites. had that not happen, those dangerous nuclear materials would still be there now and the difficult situation we are dealing with in ukraine today would involve yet another level of concern. so it's a vivid reminder that the more of this material we can secure, the safer all of our countries will be. we made progress. we have got more to do. we are going to continue our work. i look forward to hosting the fourth nuclear security summit in the united states in two years. thank you again, mark and all your team as well as the people of the netherlands for this outstanding summit. >> thank you, mr. president. we will go straight to the questions now. the first question will be the associate press. >> thank you, mr. president. you have been criticized during this dispute with russia as not understanding president putin's motivations. you and others said you thought putin was reflecting or pausing
his encouragement to crimea. did you misread his intentions and what do you think his motivations are now? when you spoke about the nsa review in january, you said you weren't sold on the option of having phone companies hold meta-da ta and you thought it raised additional privacy concerns. what has changed since that time and do you think congress will pass the legislation you are seeking? >> mr. prime minister, there are leaders in europe who have concerns about the sector sanctions the president has proposed on russia's economy. do you think any of those leaders have had their concerns alleviated during their talks with the president over the past few days? thank you. >> let me see if i can remember all of these. with respect to president putin's motivation, there has been a lot of speculation. i am less interested in motivation and more interested in the facts and the principles
that not only the united states but the entire international community are looking to uphold. i don't think that any of us have been under any illusion that russia has been very interested in controlling what happens to ukraine. that's not new. that's been the case for years now. that's been the case dating back to the orange revolution. what we have said consistently throughout this process is that it is up to the ukrainian people to make their own decisions about how they organize themselves and who they interact with. it has always been our belief that ukraine is going to have a relationship to russia. there is a strong historic bond between the two countries.
that does not justify russia enroaching on ukraine's territorial integrity or sovereignty. that's exactly what's happened. i said, very early on, that should russia do so, there would be consequences. working with our european partners and our international partners, we have put in place sanctions that have already had some impact on the russian economy. now, moving forward, we have said and i want to be very clear about this, we north recognizing what has happened in crimea. the notion that a referendum sloppily organized over the course of two weeks would somehow justify the breaking off of the crimea and annexation by russia, somehow that would have a valid process. the overwhelming majority of the
world rejects. we are also concerned about further encroachment by russia into ukraine. so what i announced and what the european council announced was that we were consulting and putting in place the framework, the architecture for additional sanctions, additional costs should russia take this next step. we also said and will continue to say is that there is another path available to russia. the ukrainian government has said it is prepared to negotiate with russia, that it is prepared to recognize its international obligations and the international community has been supportive of a diplomatic process. that would allow a deescalation of tensions, a moving back of russian troops from ukraine's
borders. and rapidly organized elections that allow the ukrainian people to choose their leadership. my expectation is that if the ukrainian people are allowed to make their own decisions, their decision will be that they want to have a relationship with europe and they want to have a relationship with russia. this is not a zero sung game. i think that prime minister and the current government have shown remarkable strength and are prepared to go down the diplomatic path. it is now up to russia to act reresponsibly and show itself to be, once again, willing to abide by international rules and international norms. if it chooses to do so, i think there can be a better outcome. if it fails to do so, there will be additional costs. those will have some disruptive effect to the global economy but
they will have the greatest impact on russia. so i think that would be a bad choice for president putin to make. ultimately, he is the president of russia and he is the one that's going to be making that decision. he just has to understand there is a choice to be made here. with respect to -- even though this was directed at mark, i just want to address this issue of sectoral sections. so far, we have put in place sa sanctions that impact individuals, restrict visas being issued to them, freezes their assets. we have identified one bank in particular in russia that was well-known to be the bank of choice for many of the persons who support and facilitate russian officials from carrying out some of these activities. what we have held off on are
more broad-based sanctions that would impact entire sectors of the russian economy. it has not just been my suggestion but the european council's suggestion that should russia go further, such sectoral sanctions would be appropriate. that would include areas potentially like energy or finance or arms sales. or trade. that exists between europe and the united states and russia. what we are doing now at a very technical level, examining the impacts of each of these sanctions. some particular sanctions would hurt some countries more than others. all of us recognize that we have to stand up for a core principle. that lies at the heart of the
international order and that facilitated the european union and the incredible prosperity and peace that europe has enjoyed now for decades. so although it could cause some disruptions to each of our economies or certain industries, what i've been encouraged by is the firmness and the willingness on the part of all countries to look at ways in which they can participate in this process. our preference throughout will be to resolve this diplomatically. i think we are prepared, as we've already shown, to take the next step, if the situation gets worse. finally, on ukraine, i think it is very important that we spend as much effort on bolstering the economy inside of ukraine and making sure that the elections
proceed in an orderly fashion. so my hope is that the imf is able to complete a package for ukraine rapidly to stabilize their finances, their economy. . osce and other international organizations are sending in observers and monitors and we are providing technical assistants to make sure the elections are free and fair. the sooner the elections take place, the sooner the economy is stabilized, the better positioned the ukrainian people will be in terms of managing what is a very challenging situation. with respect to the nsa and i will be just brief on this, i said several months ago that i was assigning our various agencies in the i.c., the intelligence community, to bring me new options with respect to the telephone database program. they have presented me now with
an option that i think is workable. it addresses the two core concerns the people have. number one, the idea of government storing bulk data generally. this ensures that the government is not in possession of that bulk data. i want to emphasize once again that some of the dangers that people high pott size when it came to bulk data, there were clear safeguards against but he recognize that people were concerned about what might happen in the future with that bulk data. this proposal that's been presented to me would eliminate that concern. the second thing the people were concerned about is making sure that not only is a judge in the program overall but looking at each individual inquiry that is made into a database. in new plan that's been presented to me does that.
so overall i'm confident that it allows us to do what is necessary in order to deal with the dangers of a nefarious attack and addresses the dangers that people have raised. i'm looking forward to working with congress to make sure we go ahead and pass the enabling legislation quickly so that we can get on with the business of effective law enforcement. >> let me make it absolutely clear that the european union and the u.s. and yesterday we saw alignment within the summit. we are working very closely together. i can fully support all the answers which you just gave on the question you asked. maybe i can add one thing, which is the effect of the russian economy is very much gas and oil
dependant. that means that economic sanctions, if they will be necessary, and we are not there yet, if economic sanctions would be necessary, because this conflict would escalate to the next stage, if this were to happen, these sanctions would hit russia very badly and obviously, you can never guarantee that the people in europe and canada, in the u.s., would not be hurt. obviously, with he will mae wil sure we will design these sanctions in such a way they will have maximum impact on the russian economy and not the european, the japanese, the american economy. we work very closely together and seek total alignment. >> next question. >> reportedly, there are about
30,000 russian troops on the border with ukraine. what guarantees can you give to the people of eastern ukraine and to the people in the baltic states, mole da va, other countries, that they will not be next when it comes to the russian politics of annex sayings. with regard to that also, is this a done deal? is there any doubt in your mind that putin will return crimea to where it belongs according to the west or is this diplomatic show of force basically to prevent another land grant somewhere else? >> on the second question first, on the issue of crimea, it is not a done deal in the sense that the international community by and large is not recognizing the annexation of crimea. the facts on the ground are that the russian military controls crimea. there are a number of
individuals inside of crimea that are supportive of that process. there is no expectation that they will be dislodged by force. so what we can bring to bear are the legal arguments, the diplomatic arguments, the political pressure, the economic sanctions that are already in place to try and make sure that there is a cost to that process. i think it would be dishonest to suggest that there is a simple solution to resolving what has already taken place in crimea. although, history has a funny way of moving in twists and turns and not just in a straight line. so how the situation in crimea evolves in part depends on making sure the international community stays unified,
indicating this was an illegal action on part of russia. with respect to the russian troops that are along the border of ukraine at the moment, right now, they are on russian soil. if they stay on russian soil, we oppose what appears to be an effort of intimidation by russia has a right legally to have its troops on its own soil. i don't think it is a done deal. i think that russia is still making a series of calculations. again, those calculations will be impacted in part by how unified the united states and europe are and the international community is in saying to russia, this is not how in the 21st century we resolve
disputes. i think it is particularly important for all of us to dismiss this notion that somehow russian speakers or national inside of ukraine are threatened and that somehow that would justify russian action. there has been no evidence that russian speakers have been in any way threatened. if anything, what we have seen are provok coutours that have created scuffles inside ukraine. when i here analogy to kosovo where you had thousands of people who were being slaughtered by their government, it's a comparison that makes absolutely no sense. i think it is important for everybody to be clear and strip away some of the possible
excuses for potential russian action. with respect to the broader issue of states that are bordering russia and what assurances do they have about future land grabs, as you put it, obviously, some of those countries are nato countries and as nato allies, we believe that the cornerstone of our security is making sure that all of us, including the united states, are abiding by article 5. the notion of collective defense. what we are not doing is organizing even more intensively to make sure that we have contingency plans and that every one of our nato allies has assurances that we will act in their defense against any threats. that's what nato is all about. that's been the cornerstone of
peace in the transatlantic region now for several generations. so we will uphold that and there will be a series of nato consultations. it is going to be coming up in which we further develop and deepen those plans. i have not seen any nato members who have not expressed a firm determination with respect to nato members. now, those countries, border countries, that are outside of nato, what we can do, is what we are doing with ukraine, which is trying to make sure there is sufficient international pressure and a spotlight shined on the situation in some of these countries and that we are also doing everything we can to bolster their economies, make sure that through various diplomatic and economic initiatives that they feel supported and they know we stand by them. when it comes to a potential military response, that is
defined by nato membership. that is what nato is about. >> jon karl from abc news. >> mr. president, thank you. in china, syria, and egypt and now in russia, we have seen you make strong statements, issue warnings that have been ignored. are you concerned that america's influence in the world, your influence in the world, is on the decline and in the light of recent developments, do you think mitt romney had a point when he said that russia is america's biggest geopolitical faux. if not russia, who? mr. prime minister, do you think these sanctions will change vladmir putin's calculation, cause him to back down? do you see -- where do you see a russian red line where if they go any further, into eastern ukraine and moldova where options beyond sanctions have to
be considered? >> thank you. >> well, jonathan, i think if the premise of the question is that whenever the united states objects to an action and other countries don't immediately do exactly what we want, that that has been the norm. that would pretty much erase most of 20th century history. i think there is a distinction between us being very clear about what we think is an appropriate action, what we stand for, what principles we believe in versus what is, i guess, implied in the question, that we should engage in some sort of military action to prevent something. the truth of the matter is that the world has always been messy. what the united states has been consistently able to do and
continue to be able to do is mobilize the international community around a set of principles and norms and where our own self-defense may not be involved. we may not act militarily. that does not mean that we don't steadily push against those forces that would violate those principles and eye deals we care about. so, yes, you are right. syria, the syrian civil war is not solved and yesterday syria has never been more isolated. with respect to the situation in ukraine, we have not gone to war with russia. i think there is a significant precedent to that in the past. that does not mean that russia is not isolated. in fact, russia is far more isolated in this instance than it was five years ago with respect to georgia and more isolated than it was certainly during most of the 20th century when it was part of the soviet
union. the point is that they are always going to be bad things that happen around the world. the united states is the most powerful nation in the world. understandably, is looked to for solutions to those problems. we have put all evidence of our power behind solutions and working with our international powers. standing up for the principles and ideals in a clear way. there are going to be moments where military action is appropriate. there are going to be sometimes where that's not in the interest of national security interest of the united states or some of our partners. that doesn't mean we are not going to continue to make the effort or speak clearly about what we think is right and wrong. that's what we have done. with respect to mr. romney's assertion that russia is our number one geopolitical faux.
the truth of the matter is that america has got a whole lot of challenges. russia is a regional power that is threatening some of its immediate neighbors. not out of strength but out of weakness. ukraine has been a country in which russia had enormous influence for decades, since the break up of the soviet union. we have considerable influence on our neighbors. we generally don't need to invade them in order to have a strong cooperative relationship with them. the fact that russia felt to go in militarily and lay bare these violations of international law indicates less influence, not
more my response then continues to be what i believe today, which is, russia's actions are a problem. they don't pose the number one national security threat to the united states. i continue to be much more concerned when it comes to our security when with the prospect of a nuclear weapon going off in manhattan, which is part of the reason why the united states showing its continued international leadership has organized a form over the last several years that has been able to help eliminate that threat in a consistent way. >> there is no geopolitical conflict that can be solved without the united states. therefore, i applaud the fact that president obama's administration is active in every aarenrena.
the initiatives that secretary kerry was taking in the middle east. i was in the region and spoke with leaders in israel and the palestinian territories. they are extremely grateful for the fact that america is providing leadership. this is a difficult issue. it can't be solved overnight. there is no magic wand that can handle this. i spoke with the president in the economic forum in january. we have now the fact that i was label to over 30, 40 years we spoke with an iranian leader. it was possible. it seems it is holding. america provided leadership there. i applaud president obama's role in all these major issues. it is necessary, because the united states is the leader of the free world and needs to provide leadership and he is doing that.
your question on president putin, it would be difficult to exactly judge what is happening in the leadership in moscow, in russia at this moment. as i said earlier, i highly undiversified economy like the russian economy, which is so much oil and gas dependant, which has not invested in infrastructure and other areas of the economy, will be worried in the financial sector or in weapons or in trade or indeed, in energy. there could be potential sanctions that will hurt them. we have to design in such a way that it will particularly hit russia and not europe, the u.s., canada or japan. that is what we are working on. we hope we won't need it. i cannot envision this conflict ending up in a military conflict. i don't think it is likely i don't think anybody wants it. i tote little agree with president obama's answers on article 5 where the conflict will be taken to the board in
the nato countries. luckily, that is, at this moment, not the case. >> questions. >> you met a lot of leaders here. many were angry about the nsa story. have you fixed the relationships with these leaders and the second question is, many are shocked by the extent of which the nsa collects private data. today, we read in "the new york times" that you plan to end the systematic collection of data of americans but can you address the concerns of the dutch and the rest of the world about their privacy? >> first of all, we have had a consistent, unbreakable bond between the leaders of europe over the last several decades. it's across many dimensions,
economic, military, counter terrorism, cultural. any one issue can be an irritant in the relationship between the countries but it doesn't define those relationships. that continues to be the case and that has been the case throughout the last couple of years. as i setd in a spooech i gave earlier thisser yoo, the united states is very proud of its record of working with countries around the world to prevent terrorism or nuclear proliferation or human trafficking or a whole host of issues that all of us would be concerned about. intelligence plays a critical role in that process. what we've seen is as technology has evolved, the guidelines and structures that con train how our intelligence agencies operated have not kept pace with
these advances in technology. although having examined over the last year, year and a half what's been done, i'm confident that everybody in our intelligence agencies operates in the best of intentions and is not snooping into the privacy of ordinary dutch, german, french, or american citizens. what is true is that there is a danger because of these new technologies that at some point, it cob abused. that's why i initiated a broad-based review of what we could do. there are a couple of things we did that are unprecedent. in my speech, i announced that for the first time, under my direction, that we are going to treat the privacy concerns of non u.s. persons as seriously as
we are the constraints that already exist by law on u.s. persons. we are doing that not because we are bound by international law but because ultimately it is the right thing to do. with respect to some of the aspects of data collection, what i've been very clear about is that there has to be a narrow purpose to it, not a broad-based purpose but rather based on a specific concern around terrorism or counter proliferation or human trafficking or something that i think all of us would say has to be pursued. and so what i've tried to do then is to make sure that my intelligence teams are consulting very closely at each stage with their counterparts in other nations. so that there is greater transparency in terms of what exactly we are doing, what we
are not doing. so some of the reporting here in european as well as the united states, frankly, has been pretty sensationalized. i think the fears about our privacy in this age of the internet and big data are justified. i think the actual facts people would have an assurance if that -- if you are just ordinary citizen, in any of these countries, that your privacy, in fact, is not being invaded. i recognize that because of these revelations, that there is a process that's taking place where we have to win back the trust, not just of governments but more importantly of ordinary citizens. that's not going to happen overnight, because i think that there is a tendency to be skeptical of government and to be skeptical in particular of u.s. intelligence services.
so it is going to be necessary for us, the step we took that was announced today, i think is an example of us slowly, systematically, putting in more checks, balances, legal processes. the good news is, that i'm very confident it can be achieved. i'm also confident that the core values that america has always believed in in terms of privacy, rule of law, individual rights, that that has guided the united states for many years and will continue to guide us in the future. >> thank you very much, everybody. thank you again. you have been listening to president obama in a news conference with the dutch prime minister. there is the president finishing up with the dutch prime minister. i think really some of his most
expansive comments to date over the crisis in ukraine, the president is saying there is no simple solution. he is saying it would be dishonest to suggest there was a simple solution to undo what's already done. in other words, get russian troops out of crimea. he did lay down something of a marker about what the united states would do if russia acts further. he took something of a rhetorical slap at vladmir putin calling russia a regional power. >> the sanctions are meant to isolate russia economically and politically. also, taking a stab at a bit of a slap at his ego if you will and those kind of comments will make it back to vladmir putin. let's bring in wolf blitzer. he is nour in our d.c. bureau. we noticed the comments and the two leaders and president obama talking about the linking of arms between the remaining g-7 countries about what they are doing to isolate russia. >> they are pretty much united right now. i think there were some
substantive disagreements on specific steps if, in fact, the russians up the ante if you will. if they do anything beyond holding on to crimea. the president basically said that's a done deal. the facts on the ground. he realizes that russia is now in control of crimea even though the u.s. and european allies, almost all of the world, still reguards russia as part of ukraine. they are in charge and the president himself even acknowledged a whole lot of people in crimea who are happy about that. he did warn if the russians do take steps going against other parts of ukraine or if they were to take steps against other countries in that part of the world, eastern europe, certainly, if any steps were taken against nato allies like poland, estonia, lithuania, latvia, charter 5 of the charter would go into effect. you attack one and you attack
all. the united states would have to come to the aid of that ally. he did acknowledge for all practical purposes russia is now in control of crimea. >> he didn't lay out the limits. he said there would be military support if russia encroaches on nato countries. wolf blitzer, in washington, we know you will be covering much more on wolf at 1:00 p.m. we are going to take a quick bre break. when we do come back, we will take a look at the search for flight 370. would get in between my dentures and my gum and it was uncomfortable. [ male announcer ] just a few dabs is clinically proven to seal out more food particles. [ corrine ] super poligrip is part of my life now. ♪ to seal out more food particles. ♪
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this hour with the malaysia plane airlines mystery. families of the passengers are still trying to come to grips with the devastating announcement from the malaysian government that according to the data they have, they believe the plane went down in the southern indian ocean and no one aboard survived. >> hundred of family and friends marched furious over what they say are lies coming from the government. obviously, you can see the crowds flashing the police. once they got to the embassy, the families gave a petition there. >> on the search front, australian maritime officials suspended search efforts today because of storms, high seas, gusty winds in the southern indian ocean. we are told that crews are likely to be back on task tomorrow. australian officials are cautioning the search operation is xl i kate complicated.
>> we are not searching for a needle in a haystack but trying to determine where the haystack is. >> this is 3,500 meters deep, 2,500 kilometers from perth. >> they say they have called off search operations in the so-called northern corridor. they base that decision on the new analysis of satellite data. >> we are going to bring in a couple of guests to help us sort it all out. we have steven, a former ntsb airliner, a commercial and air force pilot. we have dr. bob arnot. he is with us once again as well. a pilot and veteran aviation correspondent. thank you so much for joining us. >> steve, i want to start with you. >> the problem today is a lack of search. there is no search going on. they had spotted debris of some kind, wanted to get a closer look.
how much of a setback is this? >> it's certainly a setback. i think the safety investigation needs to be ongoing, and, of course, you've got to identify a crash site before you can begin the investigation in earnest. so a bit of a setback, but an act of nature so we've got to comply with that and we'll be done with in a day or so. and hopefully they'll find the wreckage and the crash site soon. >> we appreciate that optimism. bob, let's talk to you about this information that we saw. the malaysian government deliver to the world and to the families of the passengers. and i think the families specifically were struggling with the fact that they said this information has led to us believe that the plane went down in the south indian ocean with the absence of any wreckage. how do we accept this information as a definitive cause or result of what happened? >> i really think, given the
malaysian government's track record, it's a little hard to take it at face value here. this is a very, very sophisticated analysis. as you know, it's based on what they call the doppler effect. when you hear a siren coming towards you, that frequency changes, that's the doppler effect. well, they're looking at the satellite versus airplanes flying away from it. first time it's of been done. none of us have seen the data. i think the chinese are right. we want to look at this data to make sure they really got it right this time, because they certainly had it wrong most of the last couple weeks. >> and steve, as we know, we are in a race against time. quite literally here. those black boxes, they stop pinging after 30 days or so after the plane, you know, disappeared. there will not be some of the equipment they need, the tow pinger locater won't arrive. they won't get it on the ship until april 5th and could stop pinging by april 8th. that's very difficult. they're up against it here.
>> i agree. the pinger is important in finding the black box. but keep in mind, air france 447, it was almost two years before we found the recorders on the bottom of the ocean. so, yeah, it would be nice if we could do it via pinger, and a navy ship can find it with their equipment. but if it's not found by the end of the battery life of the recorder -- the pinger battery life, that is, they'll at least continue to search with all their other sophisticated equipment until they find it. >> want to say a big thank you to bob arnot. a real delight. thanks so much. we talk about the families and it's really important to always bring the focus back to them. they say they're not going to believe the government's version of what happened until they see proof with their own eyes. >> joining us to talk about the grief and frustration they are displaying right now, you know, it's very hard for all of us to see is heidi snow. heidi understands this.
heidi lost her fiance in the twa 800 crash. since then, she has become a leading advocate for survivors, founding the group a.c.c.e.s.s., and she has trained care teams and aid disaster responders for major airlines. she this also the author of the book "surviving sudden loss." heidi, we're all looking at these pictures and hearing just the emotion coming from the people in beijing and kuala lumpur. when you see it, you have such a unique perspective. what do you see? >> well, for me, it always brings me and all of us back. we had over 1,000 calls to help to a.c.c.e.s.s. over the years for different air disasters and a lot of calls from people from past air disasters, as well as a few of these families now. and for those of us who have been through it before, it brings us back to that crash site, the family assistance center. we all remember being there, just looking for answers. just holding out hope. and i feel like they're very much in that situation right
now. and basically, we just kind of went back and forth, hold south hope and then going back to facing the reality that they may never come back to us and our lives are going to be forever changed. and we're going to have to live without them. and until there's some kind of confirmation through wreckage or some type of remains, i really believe that there really is no closure or any way to really get out of going back and forth with this hope that we cling on to and going back it to the reality. i think there needs to be a lot more evidence for the families to really be able to accept that their loved ones actually are gone. and i remember so well at the site, the varying personalities, we really learned at a.c.c.e.s.s. everybody goes through their grief in their own way. and a lot of the emotions that we have seen do remind me of what it was like. we had people who were very quiet, who were in shock. then we had those people who
were very angry. and then we had people who were just sobbing. and so it really does resonate with all of us who have been there before. and after interviewing hundreds of people for our book, so much of what we're watching now just really is what the common reactions are for all of us. and what distinguishes air disasters from other types of losses is this waiting period. is this not having answers. and we certainly have a lot of people at a.c.c.e.s.s. who still do not have any remains or any confirmation from other air disasters that their loved ones actually were on board. so it is something that we all live with and one of the things we find most important is really being able to talk to somebody else who has been down that road. and who has had to go through this process. by pairing them according to the relationship of their loss and specific circumstances that they're facing. so we match mothers to mothers, siblings to siblings, spouses to
spouses. and if remains are not found, we pair them up with somebody else who also had to wait a long time. so we really find that what has helped the most for our families is really being able to validate some of these feelings that are extremely difficult. and this is such a difficult time, and the rest of the world, i think it's hard for them to understand the hope piece. but all of us know that. because we would do anything we could to keep them alive. >> heidi, we want to say thank you, because we know this work that you do is ongoing. you have spoken with us before about the ongoing need after the press conferences are over. after the cameras go away. thank you so much, heidi snow. it works with providing emotional support services to survivors and family members of air aviation disasters. it thank you so much for joining us. >> you can read more about heidi's support group, aircraft casually emotional support services at
train station. madison square garden is right on top of it. it's that kind of layered construction. the train station went through a huge reconstruction and manchester arena is no more than that years old. camera crews and civilians were out talking to eyewitnesss and media -- immediately after the blast, we want to bring you some of that. >> i said it was non -- balloon. who told you it was a balloon. >> staff, to stop us. >> how did you manage to get out? >> told us to be cabin and a few
you're reminded listening to the accidents of people who are still in the moment reacting to this, that manchester is in a unique part of the country. it has whales to the west, approximately, scotland to the north. it is part of the northern uk, an industrial city and proud of it. >> yeah, brian, i guess the equivalent of the u.s. would be the u.s. this is an old industrial type part of the uk, sort of, following disrepair for decades and since undergone a surgery. these are salt of the earth people, good -- big moment class revelation. a lot of new industry moving into that area as well. at this concert, as you mentioned, i think, this arena is massive.
it holds 21,000 people. it's the biggest arena in the uk and biggest in europe. you would have had people coming from all of the around to uk to go to this area. the third stop in her tour of just the uk. she had played some dates in other parts of europe. this was a big, big deal for these young people and sort of industrial and northern india. good whole some, you know, families headed out for a great night of entertainment for teenage girls, teenage boys. bombs and dad going with their kid and then, of course, this happened. we see a lot of this social media video showing just kind of a panic that happened after that explosion was heard. you know, a sold out concert and brian, a packed arena.
the final son had already been song and left the stage, one of the fans told us she had gone, the lights were on, people were heading for the exits when they heard this blast. one young woman who spoke to us they thought it was a small drop. >> they didn't realize the full extent of what was happening until they got out of that arena. you know, this seems on the outside now as we understand the blast did happen outside, according to an ree na statement, it happened at a public space. this seen is very much different from inside the concert hall. one man told local station here that he was there to pick up his wife and daughter and that he was fairly close to the glass that's thrown 30 feet and afterwards saw the aftermath. others talk about seeing fans
bloodied on their faces. we eve seen pictures of young people and adults walking around, walking wounded with damage around their knees, ripped to jeans, volunteer first responder told us that they've been treating shrapnel like injuries that's when we got the sense that this was something very sinister, that this was, potentially, an explosion. we have since learned, as you know, brian, multiple u.s. law enforcement sources telling nbc news they've been briefed by uk officials and saying this was -- appears to have been the work of a suicide bomber and based on forensic after evidence at the scene, brian, they believe they know who the bomber is. we don't have any ideas yet. we have a tore numbers. we haven't heard anything sense in doubt, the investigative work
is in full force at this very early saul ri. >> kelly, here with the scene from there and what it's been like this whole evening long as we've gone through the slow realization that this was, in fact, what we all feared it was and that is investigators are pointing to a single acting alone, that is, suicide bomber at one of the, potentially one of the main exits. we're joined in the staud yi by police commissioner bill. commissioner when you hear kelly report, again, sources of the investigating world i know who this is, i know what this is. what does it take for them to be able to say that, first and second what is our relationship for people who are just joining our coverage and talked about this a little bit earlier, what's our relationship with the uk back in forth? >> relationship with the uk
really seamless and i can speak from personal instruction. the intelligence services, the coordination, slab ration that has to be pretty significantly after 9/11. in terms to quickly identify individual those are on air and in policy. two thoughts there that one we'll let you be fact of how that technology is. you'll start to think that it may have had a suspect or suspects in line. they tend to match up very quickly because what they had going into the small scene. >> they had a stream of information available intelligence and police services before this event, that will be
part of the investigation of the days ahead. but we get better at this all the time. we'll have to pace these events. >> what are they saying, law enforcement, terrorist only has to get lucky once, but law enforcement have to be lucky every single time. >> thank you very much. >> our senior national security analyst and a former deputy national security adviser, four terrorism for president george w. bush. more on this intelligence sharing. we're not critiquing the finding that kelly was reporting from someone in your line of work that they have some degree of sernd, what's behind this and who this was and how can that be possible in such show amount of
time. >> i think bill has a right. i think the british authorities are incredibly good at their work. they're tracking a number of individuals of concern. this seems to suggest that this may be an individual that was on the radar screen, or at least that they had information about or bio me tricks and other available information. want to be very quick in these cases. they want to find out what they know, not only about this attack in particular, but they want to make sure that they understand what the support networks are around this individual, this attack. nothing else is a pace. nothing else is unforming. so i think there's going to be more information coming out understanding that this they're going to dig hard into who this individual is. his social ned work and any communication with other suspect
individual or even isis or al qaeda elements that may have been either training him, inspiring him or even directing him in this attack. there's much more to be learned. but the fact that british authorities think that they've identified this individual, u.s. authorities are tracking that as well. very significant sign and certainly a demonstrate of great capability to do this this quickly in the wake of such a horrific account. >> they really the art form of flooding the zone with cameras for digital imagery. when that happened, when that error broke and when they kind of debuted their system. it was people from the nypd who traveled to london, looked around. society debates constantly, as it should, the exchange of privacy for safety in a free society. but what are the rules governing
immature -- they've got six angles before this and let's assume, getting his face out there, would help for people wondering, do you -- have you seen this, does this ring a bell? >> well, it's a great point, brian. british authorities will use whatever authorities they have ability. their system allows them access to several advantage points, no doubt. they're going to be looking not only to what they can do to identify this individual at the point of the attack, but whether or not they can spot others who may have supported, dropped off or been a part of this particular and that. they'll be pouring over whatever footage they have available. to your point about privacy and security, you know, the british have been criticized for this coverage and i think for every open society, the debate, how
much security is enough. it's impossible that an open society to prevent these kind of attacks. there is the work of intelligence gathering, which is probably the longful here in the tent here, you try to understand who the suspects are, you try to understand where the threats are coming from to try to prevent this from happening to begin with. to the extent you have capabilities like footage in public arena like boyfriend you try to use that to maximum efficiency to ensure there aren't other attacks as well as to deter those who are trying to perpetrate these kind of attacks to begin with. it's an important question, because every society, including the united states have to grapple with, how much are we really for us to know beforehand, how much information is gathered and then how much surveillance are we allowing the public arena and public square to allow authorities to react in
an on fortunate attack. >> british authorities have come to a balance, that, obviously, a question for the u.s. still moving forward, how much security is enough, especially when terrorists are going after shortfallings. >> you can't blame them for being part of our coverage. we within the to welcome back jonathan. what we're covering political news. we just joined us looking for the 11th hour we will also be doing here tonight, there's plenty of that. first this breaking news from manchester, jeremy, former chief of staff and cia and defense. jeremy, i asked you earlier, what gets lit up and what gets turned on on a night like this given the close relationship between u.s. and u.s. airport. >> fingerprint from the individual who conducted the attack, i'll take that and run
it through the database and come up with a name. that name will go through a number of databases, e ours is called the data environment tied. it's run by the national terrorism center. the uk authorities, their internal service works with all the other partners in the world. they'll try to match that name with any other aspect of known terrorist network. i predict they'll use that name, identify an address, probably somewhere in the uk and you'll see armoured rain forest by the uk, police, apparent military s.w.a.t. teams, they'll remove and they'll introduce the home, z and i told you about that. >> reporter: they'll take evidence. they'll take fgs. they will look at electronic holdings of the intelligence,
remail it suspect, phone intercepts. within hours we'll have more information of -- sent to us this person is tied to another network. we'll talk about whether he acted alone, was directing. i've been looking through previous terrorist attacks here the last several months. if you look at truck attacks in sweden april 2017, truck attack in berlin. knife attacks the niece truck attack that killed 36. those were lone individuals operating a truck, handgun, a knife something they can get in their every day life. it's attacks that provide high powered explosives like the aware in turkey, the attack in brussels i kept telling them 32. it's gng to march. the attack in paris, of course, they killed 89 and over all paris in -- those individuals
are part of a network. they're part of a terrorist organization, inspired or directed by other people who want to do harm against civilians. i think it has me tonight based on the fact the use of explosives, based on the fact this individual went to a place where they knew it would be several hundred brilliant surveillances working on. this has to be the hypothesis tonight. grien, again, you will see all of these activities lead up to a targeting package and understand of entertainment, you'll see steel on target, iraq as a result of this, if in fact, it's connected to isis. >> jeremy bash thank you so much for being part of our coverage tonight. for those of you watching just when official word came in from manchester, we had been talking about a block bruce ter, which
we are minutes away from getting to ourselves. that's when our investigative producer had been on the air talking about presidential politics. and ken asked me, preston, the serena, getting that all you can about this investigation. what have you learned? >> all right. i just spoke to u.s. intelligence official. if you see a complex ball, does that suggest network, the answer is yes it very well mike. >> there are instances where isis is now walking through people taking bomb making instructions online. i think they're showing the ability to recruit, disturb individuals or take them to the steps to get to radicalization and get to operational ability on line. but in either scenario folks are telling me, we're likely to see a situation where encryption was used. that's going to raise questions,
there's a lot of something hear. there may have been a point where some of the terrorist use encryption to disguise their plotting. if it wasn't themselves or lie sis, from intelligent services. it's becoming running into debate in this country, you know, find a way to penetrate that. is there absolute right to have your conversations secure from government, surveillance or not and that's going to continue. >> i had one official say to me tonight, in the reassuring tone, that by this time tomorrow, the brits will know everything this person ever surged -- searched on google and when and what the result was. >> i think that may be -- ha they didn't know in time is whether this person was communicating either with
terrorist abroad. unfortunately they didn't know it in time to stop this attack. while we've been recording, united states command has announcing a raid into yemen that killed seven, aqpl 10, just another reminder that the u.s. at war against terrorist around the war. >> thank you. also unrelated to this incident or so we hope was the visual all day long until about dinner time east coast time when we realized our news day and our coverage was about to change because of breaking news out of manchester. but previously, all day long the news was about the president's trip to the middle east, a trip that started in saudi arabia and a trip that took him to israel today. the problem is, d -- the
problem, again, the news from back home in the u.s. that continues to follow this president and this administration, and, again, today it was the washington post that was out with another bomb shell report, quoting from the washington report headline tonight" trump asked intelligence chiefs to push back against fbi collusion probe after comey revealed its existence. this report says, back in march, "trump made separate appeals to the director of national intelligence and to michael rogers director of national security agency. urging them to publicly deny the existence of any evidence of collusion during the 2016 election. the report goes on the new revelations and to a growing body of evidence that trump sought to coopt and then under
mine comey before he fired him, may not explain. >> connecticut senior also that statement added this point. >> it adds additional mounting powerful evidence of a cover up and obstruction of justice. what is really significant about it is, that it's cumulative on the issue of intent because donald trump donald trump's defendants said he didn't mean any harm when he questioned comey, he didn't mean what he said. this repeated attempt to stifle investigative work, stop the truth from coming out, eventually becomes evidence of intent. all of it mounting evidence of powerful undeniable dimensions and it goes to the issue of intent. >> again, that was part of the news that went into this day and earlier today we learn mike
flynn will invoke the fifth amendment in response to a subpoena requesting documents about his ties and contacts with rush shachlt we'll talk more about this a little later on. flynn was also accused in a letter today, elijah cumming of lying to security clearance investigators back in 2016 about being paid by russian media. those payments were for an appearance at a now well chronical dinner honoring vladimir putin in december of 2018 for our tea, russian television here. here with us tonight discuss it eli, "wall street journal," bost in globe columness, ethics chair at the pointer institute. and plit skoliticpolitico, mich. mike, you'll get the first question tonight what just
happened today? >> well, brian, it's another log on the fire. i assume we're talking about the latest reports -- particularly this washington post appreciate it. what it does is, you know, just build out as if we needed any more evidence that this president doesn't seem to respect or care about traditional boundaries that should limit him, that should restrict him from ongoing investigation at a minimum, i think the most charitable thing you can say when you read this story, he's a very wealthy man and use to picking up the phone and getting things done and new york city and in his real estate deals and he thinks that works to a better investigation that involves nefarious influence by a foreign power, but then you see, you know, senator blumenthal gets in front of it. you see it brian, somewhat married in that story. below the name, which describes
trump asking two senior intelligence officials to come out and essentially say he's not under investigation and clear him. other white house officials are not named in the story, apparently made inquiries without getting them to pressure comey now fired to drop his investigation into michael flynn. and there's really no way to explain that away, so in the first case, trump could be a rich guy who thinks hey, i have this guy wh is not more people come out and say something. it should not make those phone calls it's inappropriate. it's crossing into lanes you should not be in. the second part of it, brian, i think is very troubling the white house officials are leaning on people saying, go to comey, get him to drop the pregnancy. >> eli, finding new stories like
yours, we're allowed to get yours average. they have the conversation like he was carrying. if it is true that means donald trump as president was going around to people in government saying, either, make this go away or, tell the folks that i'm clear and tell folks everything is fine. >> yeah, it's another, whoa what trump now. we don't generally have a habit of printing things that are not true. they source these things. they have sources deep inside these intelligence agencies. you're starting to see a pattern with these stories documenting the same behavior over and over again. when they come back to the white house you saw it again today. there's no denial of the allegations in the story. today the white house said something like we're not going to talk about it because it's based on unnamed sources. before they were defending and trying to say i didn't doch this. the thing they were saying they
didn't do was yet to put pressure comey or that he pressured the new other intelligence officials. and then a lot of other newspaper and other outlets. there are a lot of sources across what donald trump i like to think of as the deep state, that's our government. that's the intelligence community. it's the community of people who are bound together by belief in and respect for the rule of law. this is an executive in the oval office, if it's someone who doesn't seem to have a respect for the rule of law, you can understand why there were so many damaging leaks and we probably haven't seen the end of it. >> he was not a traditional ceo, in that he didn't have a board to report to. it's been said that with great frequency today over and over again. i think here is a guy you have one way of doing things in his world.
it was the only world he knew. not only is the mindset of a good government type foreign to him, but he thought he could pull the leopards of waiting on them to see. is this really the learning curve someone from the business world now in the oval office. >> it's not the curve from anyone in the business world who might have wanted oval office. it certainly is that way for donald trump, a person who has never had to answer for anyone, p 0 years old and surrounded himself with culinary yemen and women, people who got things done for him. always look the other way on ethical things, legal things they sort of budget. you can't do that when you're in a system, when you're in a system of government and you have all of these checks and balances in federal bureaucracy. thousands and thousands of people who can be checked on the power itself.
this happened back in march, this around the same time -- it did stories, true. the same time he was sharing these things, the senior official committee was trying to end it. at the same time he's been president attack and his wires, the chair of the house intelligence devin nunes to go around and try to stand up that story and convince the media that the president might be on to something. all of this was happening when they thought he could manufacture their own truth. we hear the president is advising the legal team saying you have to be more judicious and discrete with your words you can't say things you have to be bound by the facts. he's never tried to do that and it may be too late, even if they make headway and it changes the behavior now. he may have already done too much and said too much. in terms of allowing people to
make a case. >> welcoming you back to the broadcast, i saved an interesting one for you, i'm going to take you back, it's been a long time, about a week to when we learned that the president had two russians in the oval office. there were no american journalists there, footnote, the russian news agency toss what is there. it was their photos that got sent around the world. we later learned that in the e val office, donald trump shared intelligence, code name intelligence with the visiting russians. it was whispered and further leaked that this was an intelligence partner that lead a lot of people to advise if it was israel that further we had, perhaps, endangered someone's deep cover among elements of isis overseas. that element was never confirmed by the white house. fast forward a whole wink unto
today. he's in april. he's -- and trump chooses, out of nowhere, to kind of silence the combined press corps so he could speak up and make a point. we'll air that and then you can talk about it on the other side. >> just so you understand, i never mentioned the word or the name israel. i never mentioned throughout the conversation. so you had to know the story. never mentioned the word israel. >> for the record none of us were saying he did. his national security adviser, general mcmaster came out, in fact, he was never told the source of that information, so he would not have paed along the sources of tt information. on this front what just happened? >> right. well the kri nolg here, it was the washington post that broke that incredible story about the
code word intelligence that donald trump shared with the russians. in the same conversation in which he called james comey and said fortunately i've fired him. i think many of us who cover national security and foreign policy immediately drump to the conclusion or had sources who made us believe that it was, in fact, israel, it was the original source that's why it was so sensitive and naming the city, it was so interest. fast forward the next day and the "new york times" had a separate story in which they said israel was the source of the intelligence, according to their sources the two things were not together, but by him responding to this reporter who shouted out to bb, are you yet comfortable, we felt compiled to say i never mentioned him. he's inadvertently confirming in the view that it was in fact israel that was the source.
you can see how the prime minister looked momentarily uncomfortable about the whole situation. everyone was kind of krinching, that was bt the only crib marriott maine. we've just come back from the middle east. they have not certified one. they put his hand up to his head and put it back as if, no, i meant to do that. so there have been a lot of things said that were foot and mouth moments. you know, in this middle east trip. >> a lot of the trip transpired over the weekend after we had signed off, midnight eastern, friday night right ununtil now. a lot of the imagery, it had been, i think, going well on a pass/fail basis. but then the statement on israel -- then the statement that, perhaps, they've been in the middle east yesterday but why traveling to israel were no
longer. so, you know, it was a low bar for trump to clear in saudi arabia, he basically had no not get caught saying something con feet and then he had to redisspeech lairty and he managed to do those things. by the way, that speech was temperate critic it was not the worse case scenario from the perspective when he wen in guns blazing saying he spent on -- it was a fairly established speech and i think people were saying, okay, this president on the world stage you might disagree with his policies, but he can, at least, sort of pick my numbers and do stage crap without causing any kind of big problems. today was a reminder that when donald trump is out with the mic and he's not completely scripted, the odds are pretty good he is going to say something that makes an unwelcome headline that is in
discrete that makes him look foolish. by the end, i will add that brian, you know, this trip is just starting. he's got a couple more stops. he'll be meeting with a lot more foreign leaders. he's going to g 7-meeting and goes to nato summit, that's the blt -- he's been rolling out this one, really trying to reboot and knowing that trump comes to them ready to give them a warmth huggy. when you -- a lot of unresolved issues and a lot of point, how much are other countries are spending. do they believe he's necessary at the last point, elephant in the room, that nato is summit. it was formed, to defend your russian aggression so to the extent trump has been running away from the russia story on this trip, he is running into africa story when he arrives to
meet with the nato officials. >> someone is going to drump the american president tomorrow morning local time in israel and ask for his response to what happened in manchester. and there, i suppose, right there in that moment would be a very stark choice of words. >> well, i suspect he may go back to the formulation that he was so comfortable with during the campaign, talking about radical islamic terrorism. the fakts he had been talking about it for a couple of hours, the british authority do believe it was probably a terrorist attack. i think, hopefully you'll be getting the say the correct thing. but i do think this goes back to wearing the larger problem of me not taking advice, many use to saying whatever he wants to or saying. it's the head of a company with no board as michael said. i think michael's explanation, bethe way, of why he says
whatever he wants, trying to tell the director of national intelligence to type down or come out and say i'm not the subject, it's a completely understandable explanation, but it's not a justification for that. by the same token he needs to be listening to advice of people who know better about governing things and he doesn't seem to be very good at taking that advice. he's use to doimg things his own way. eli, again, started in an entirely different direction, but we had this story about general flynn announcing his intention to take the fifth amendment. explain to our viewers, what prong of the investigation this is and if capital hill investigation can't result in any kind of charges, why would this be? >> well, this was the senate intelligence committee request for flynn to test above and
he'll be taking the fifth and refusing to do so. it was immediately bringing back to the news channels, to the coverage, all the clips, the times during the campaign when donald trump and his advisers opined about hillary clinton and her aides taking the fifth and saying doing so made it seem like they were guilty as heck. michael flynn was not feature, probably if he had a good story to tell. i think, you know, folks who are running these intelligence investigations on the hill and to the intelligence community which has its own investigation and now special counsel leading up to that investigation. there's not a lot of concern about the truth, eventually, getting out, about being able to find this stuff out, obviously, we've seen the amount across the government and i think with multiple investigations going on simultaneously, people work pretty good of getting to the fact. i think one way or another
you'll seem pretty coverage pa lent room. if you focus on the next several months of what actually happened, whether or not people like michael flynn will come warning. thank you all, it's been an eventful day and a sad evening, but the political news, the go political news really commended our attention tonight. we'll fit in a break in our coverage, again, we're covering these dual stories, the traveling white house today and all that means what the newspaper back here in the states and this terrible tragedy in the current terrorist attack in manchester uk this evening. we'll be right back. standby.
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>> so many family members were together for tonight's concert, so many parents, for example, brought their teenage daughters. the crowd base for ariana grande, the concert tonight and manchester arena. i want to read you the way the associated press is putting in at this hour, dateline manchester england ap, a highly anticipated night for ariana grande fans ended in blood and terror after an explosion tore through the foyer, at least is the concert goers were killed, about a others were injured on monday night. all evening long we've been getting contributions from jonathan deets who is part of our investigative reporting team here in new york. bring us up to date, especially for viewers who may just be learning about this story or looking for a late live update. >> you know, the very latest we
have, all indications, at least at that arena, it was a lone attacker, likely a suicide bomber with some sort of backpack bomb filled with nails and bolts to inflict maximum damage as well as the stampede that caused other injuries. a lone attacker outside the arena along the check points of crowds going in. it was as the crowd was filing out that this explosion took place causing the panic. the question, now, who is this suspect. we've been told from law enforcement officials here, that they had tentative i.d. of the possible suicide bomber and that they're working very hard to confirm that and track that and that's important because they want to know was he a lone actor or was he part of any part of a terror cell. britain has been faced with threats, we saw the incident
outside west minister. there have been more than a dozen pods there last year. there are hundreds of extremist inside that country that intelligence agencies are trying to track and monitor. some had traveled to syria, isis controlled territory in syria and returned so there's that whole picture of, again, the question was this a lone actor or part of a cell. the brits are clamping down because now the investigation is very much underway as they try to track and see did this bombing have any help, was he part of any cell, how did he pull this off without getting caught. >> jonathan, initially, we heard about the toll, especially of the injured. but then sadly the dead and there were people theorizing that maybe this had been a stampede, maybe some of the deaths came that way. i was loosely trying to explain to folks who may be familiar
with new york, folks all across the country, who have had the pleasure -- the experience of being to the station and madison square garden, which sits right on top of it. it's not unlike the manchester arena, they're one on top of the other using the air rights of the train station. there are levels between trains, the box office and the venue itself. >> and thousands of people all moving in that direction to the exits to try to get to that transportation and all of a sudden the explosion takes place, so all the people start running the other way causing terrible confusion. you and i have seen the videos at kennedy airport when erroneous scare, airport shutdown if you're in a similar scare in los angeles recently where panic. this one described as a major
chest pounding thud, in terms of the explosion that took place around the crowd of people and ensuing panic. i think we saw some video, people jumping over the sides of the stands to get to the alleyways to try to make their exits just sheer panic. right now it's 50 injured, 19 dead. we're waiting to hear more about the extent of the injuries of those people we've seen in cases like this. you would expect that several to be in critical condition, at this time. we'll await to hear from the hospital authorities on the status of those injuries, some officials caution us, perhaps, expect to see the toll of casualties arise in the hours ahead. >> in the hours ahead, i expect we'll get new image what we've been forced to repeat and repeat and repeat. thank you so much for contributing to our reporting. i want to bring in our senior
national security analyst. and i'm going to ask you an oddly political question and it's this, you served on the national security staff of president bush 43. if this president is getting a proper briefing tomorrow morning local time in israel, what do you counsel a president to say when he's asked about a strongly suspected terrorist attack over night in the uk? >> well, i think the first thing the president is going to want to know is what do we know about the attack itself, about the perpetrator. are there any american citizens who have been suffered as a result of the attack, either killed or injured. are we providing support to our british colleagues, to the full force and weight of our capabilities. do we know if anything ties this attack to other threats that we may be concerned about and are
there preventative measures we should be taking in concert with state and local authorities to include forces like nypd and lapd to ensure that there is no potential, that there is an attack in the u.s. that's either a copy cat and maybe something that's attached. those are things that the president is going want to know. i was in the white house on the 7/7 attack in 2005. president bush was in scotland for the g 8 meetings at that point. we went immediately into briefing mode. he knew more, he was on the ground. he was in prime minister blair at the time. we were clearly going through the whole assortment of issues and concerns about what we knew about the attack in london at the time and what we were doing to not only help our british colleagues, but also to secure the u.s. in the eventuality that
there was some connection of what was happening in london and what was potentially happening in the u.s. the president is going to be briefed based on what we know. it sounds like the british are getting down to some great details in terms of who the perpetrator is. there's no doubt in the coming hours going to find out more about his identity, his whereabouts, his communications, his network, those are things that the brit irn will share, no doubt, with the u.s. and those things will be brief toded to t president. >> since this is no ordinary time and since this is a president like no other, what do you tell him not to say, rather, based on regional sensitivities, based on what we may not know, based on, it's just really smart not to say this? >> well, i think there will be three principles you want to convey to the president, first is, you know, this is a fog of war, the initial stages of
anything is going to be incomplete information and may actually be wrong information, you don't want to be the lead fact witness on what's happening. we'll continue to brief and update you. but don't get too far in front of your ski tips here in front of the information because it could be wrong. this is a british-led investigation. this is a british issue first and foremost you don't want to get out in front of the british. let the british take the lead and we will follow. if they want us to share information, we need to share information, we can go back and ask them. let's be careful with respect to that. third, i think if there's anything sensitive conveyed, anything that leads to the potential that this is involving isis, al qaeda, other networks you want to make sure that the president knows where those areas of sensitivity are and you want to make sure he is aware that he probably shouldn't be talking openly to others or publicly about some of those
threats. it could be important to unraveling what could be a support network to this attack. >> and so i would start with those first principles, i would be very open with the president and hopefully the president is getting his feet under him in terms of how to handle these kind of briefings and this kind of sensitive information. >> now, that was an answer, useful information. as always, thank you, we have just a few minutes remaining in this hour's coverage. ken delaney of nbc news joins us back here in the studio. ken, as americans go to sleep, as daybreaks in the uk, we're going to know so much more by the time we all get up in the morning. >> it sure looks that way, brian. if they have a name, as you said, they'll know a lot about him. who he was communicating with, everybody bit bit if there's a network, you may see some over night raids and armoured vehicles coming to the door, if it's not a network, we may be
learning new details about who he is. i want to bring a point about president trump, he made a remarkable statement, speech in saudi arabia. it was a rhetoric return. he did not use the kind of phrases that he's used during the campaign, he said that islam hates us. it's going to be an interesting test whether he can hue to this new line that's coming out hr mcmaster and james mattis or whether we'll see the old donald trump lashing out. >> sean henry, we have 35 seconds to play with, do you rush out the imagery, which you know they'll have of this bomber to help garner more information? >> i think that certainly they'll do anything they can to identify any potential coconspirators if they know who this person is, they may be following him and to the extent they can identify others who
might be kplcomlicit with him. >> that's going to conclude this hour's coverage, complicated what is normally the 11th hour, we were unable to cover pure politics because of this tragedy from manchester. our coverage will continue. microsoft and its partners are using smart traps to capture mosquitoes and sequence their dna to fight disease. there are over 100 million pieces of dna in every sample. with the microsoft cloud, we can analyze the data faster than ever before. if we can detect new viruses before they spread, we may someday prevent outbreaks before they begin.
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is a [ bleep ] lie. >> and she has remained mostly silent until now. >> why did you decide to come forward now and talk to us? >> i trust you. >> does it feel good to talk about this? >> yes. it's time. >> ms. mckinney, come forward please. >> there were bits of the puzzle i wasn't able to reveal at the time and i was unable to be as truthful as i really wanted to be. >> so she is telling her story, her truth, and for the first time exerts from the if you areman tapes you've never heard. vulgar. >> sexist. >> how do you arrest a violent suspect? >> have a man do it.
romantic relationship ended. >> if somebody thinks enough of you, they'll call you a name. >> the nicknames he gave these women are pretty hash. >> we have all the female names. there's one called critter. there's another one we call hench monkey, like in the wizard of oz. >> can i use that? >> sure. critter. >> what were you thinking when he said those things? >> bingo. i feel that often when i'm working on -- there will be a bingo moment. or i'll get chills. when i get chills, i can help somebody else get chills. >> but laura would get much more than chills and a dramatic screen play. >> you have to be able to shoot people, beat people beyond recognition and go home and hug your little kids.
>> her 12 tapes would become a racial powder keg. >> the defense will question laura hart mccan i beny. >> i guarantee you. there's a celebration behind closed doors. >> impacting the trial of the century. >> do you use the word -- >> the defense says those tapes will show furman is a liar and racist who was capable of planting the bloody glove. >> revealing a racist and sexist society in the lapd. >> he threatened me and said i'll take and you any other females you want to bring and i'll choke you out in a minute. . it's about moving forward, not back. it's looking up, not down.
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s. she knew exactly what her movie should be about. >> so your goal was to write a screen play about sexism within the lapd, why? >> i hate it when people are cruel to each other and that it's got to be happening not just here, it's got to be happening around the country. >> and it was sure happening in l.a. in the 1980s with resentment and retaliation against a campaign to recruit more women and minorities to the lapd. >> i could tell there was a tory there. i didn't know what the story was, but i was determined to deal with it. >> and her man on the inside, officer mark fuhrman had plenty to say on the subject.
the police academy, shadowing them, and i represent their voices. >> we were trained with this gun and how to load it. >> recognizes like tia morris. >> every rank in the department up threw capital. >> in 1983 she was new to the force and ready to protect and serve in west l.a. at roll call, rookie officers like morris sat upfront. >> the tenured officers like if you areman he and a lot of the ordinarily officers would sit in the back and throw paper or pencils at us, or make loud and vulgar comments if the watch commander read our name. they'd say, she's a pig and things like that. >> nobody stood up and said this is wrong, back down. >> no. >> when you found out you had to work with beat with him, what was your reaction? what were you thinking? >> i was scared.
i was scared only because of him standing up in front of all of our peers and in front of the watch skmarnd other officers and he flatout said i do not want to work with morris. from the moment he stepped out of roll call, he was angry. the whole night he threat understand me and challenged me to fight. he said i'll take you and any other females you want to bring up to the academy and i'll choke you out in a in a minute because you're not even strong. you can't handle a man. [ siren ] >> then came a high-priority call, burglary in progress. he didn't get out of the car so i would approach the scene by myself. >> he didn't back you up? >> no, he sat in the car. he shined his light and just sat there. i didn't get out. >> . >> what if somebody would have
come towards you? >> he would have been happy. because then he could have allowed me to get hurt and that would have been right up his alley. >> morris says she was so scared she didn't even finish her shift that night. but if you areman wasn't the only one with this attitude towards wyoming there was a covert club. they called themselves mau, men against women, meeting here at stoner park in the dead of night. >> so when i first told you about men against women, what was your reaction? >> i couldn't believe it. you guys actually go to the park after work and just drink beer and denigrate women? >> . >> i spent time here when i was writing thinking about what it
would be like for the marksau guys to be here. >> he described disciplining one of their zone if you areman and the guys would hold these late night meetings and figure out how they were going to harass other male officers that were being nice to female officers. >> who had helped them in some way? who had not reported something in a report that those officers felt they should have or done something nice for them, had backed them up. . >> coming up tribunal and kill parties. >> it takes your breath away just the thought of it. hi. i'm the one clocking in... when you're clocking out. sensing your every move and automatically adjusting to help you stay effortlessly comfortable. there.
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>> mark fuhrman roll playing as the quote grand dragon, leading what he describes as a tribunal, calling out a fellow officer for fraternizing with a female cop. >> and then i go does anybody have any evidence to produce? well, on 2/25 i observed the defendant not only touch but kiss on the as one of the female officers. i did not. silence. it's a lot of fun but you blow off a lot of steam. it makes guys aware. >> seemingly makes guys aware that if they are nice to female officers there will be consequences. that's how m.a.w., men against women, reportedly worked. >> we have factions in five divisions. >> what was a typical outcome of these mock trials? these tribunals? >> depending on the crime
committed, the grand dragon would determine what the ostracization would be. that the other guys wouldn't talk with him. >> however, there was, as fuhrman describes, a way to avoid quote being put on trial. >> publicly humiliate a female officer in front of a bunch of male officers. >> tia morris says she had to work with the men of m.a.w. so when you heard about men against women and this group of guys making it their mission to intimidate and harass women, did you believe it? >> i didn't. but then i really saw how serious mark fuhrman was about the other men talking to the women. especially the male whites. if they came up to me and spoke or anything like that, mark fuhrman would say what are you doing?
don't talk to her and they would back away. >> men against women wasn't only about denegrating females, fuhrman also told screenwriter laura hart mckinney that m.a.w. held what they called kill parties. celebrations she found unimaginable. >> the thought of a kill party takes your breath away. when there was an officer-involved shooting, some officers of the m.a.w. group would celebrate it it. the thought of taking someone's life and happy that it wasn't you and finding a way to go great job. that was a hell of an evening. it's just overwhelming, the really is. the idea of a kill party. >> tribunals. kill parties. equally disturbing is that mark fuhrman stayed on the job
despite allegations of his sexism, racism. >> he told me i needed to go and dance on "soul train." >> and internal investigations. in 1985, ten years before the o.j. simpson trial, tia morris testified before an administrative board about the behavior of mark fuhrman and other officers. >> it happened because of the lieutenant that noticed the issues were spilling over to another watch. he told us what he observed and what he had been hearing about the men against women and w.a.s.p. the white anglo-saxon police. he did specify he knew it was stemming from fuhrman and said he was going to start an investigation and he did. >> they weren't formally punished but his reputation took a hit. so then mark fuhrman comes up for a promotion and you say? >> no. >> bernard parks was an lapd
deputy chief when fuhrman came up for promotion. >> a person's background had to be as sterling as possible. i made a point to always take a moment to look at somebody's background and not give them an opportunity to put the department in a bad light. >> so you knew he would put the department in a bad light? >> my view was you didn't want to take the chance. >> one year after fuhrman was passed over for a promotion, parks had to set up another task force. >> we set the task force because in the early '90s almost the same things were happening in west l.a. that were happening in the '80s and you heard rumors about women being mistreated and not given an opportunity. >> one member of that task force, tia morris. >> it was amazing to me because for one i'm sitting here thinking here i went through this in the '80s and i'm saying the department knew about a lot
of this stuff. they knew how he was and nobody did anything. >> so being on this task force, you were privy to internal reports and mark fuhrman was mentioned in a number of these. >> yes. we were privy to all of his past investigations and a stress claim he filed where he talked about how he hated blacks and hispanics. and women. and he was blaming the department for his stress because of those issues that he had. >> this time the investigation resulted in officers being reassigned, including mark fuhrman. a fateful move with consequences that no one could have imagined. coming up, mark fuhrman's behavior would no longer be just an internal problem.
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plus had less major bleeding. both made eliquis right for me. ask your doctor if switching to eliquis is right for you. by 1995 laura hart mckinney had settled down with her family in suburban north carolina. but back in l.a., her old buddy mark fuhrman was back on the stand. >> you say you have never spoken about black people as n -- or spoken about black people as n -- in the past ten years? >> that's what i'm saying, sir. >> as bailey was grilling fuhrman, no one knew about the tapes, except for her and a few close allies. then came the one phone call that changed everything. >> i picked up the phone. he said may i speak with laura hart mckinney and i said this is
she but i didn't recognize the voice. and then he said this is pat mckenna. >> mckenna was a private investigator working for o.j. simpson's lawyers. a sign to find anything that would support the defense's strategy that mark fuhrman was a racist who planted evidence. >> he asked me if aid story and if in that story i had research tapes and if i had taped mark fuhrman. >> and your thought? >> i just froze and said yes and then we left town. immediately. because i had no idea what to do. >> including what to do about some unexpected advice. >> who suggested you destroy the tapes? >> judge who was an acquaintance of mine in l.a. >> did that surprise you? >> yes. >> so did she want to protect mark fuhrman? >> i'm thinking she wanted to
protect the integrity of the trial. >> what did you say to her? >> i was flummoxed. why? >> did she see the writing on the wall? was she afraid potentially a murderer could walk free because of what these tapes represented? >> she didn't know what was on the tapes but her point was when i said the tapes are confidential and she said it's a murder trial. nothing is confidential and they would subpoena you and your tapes and your life would change forever. >> and that's exactly what happened. when mckinney refused to hand over the tapes, simpson's lawyers came to north carolina and took her to court. >> mark furman is still a friend of yours, is that correct? >> he's a business partner. i have a business relationship with him. >> and you're still trying to market this screenplay?
>> i was completely unprepared to be in a courtroom. i was extremely nervous. >> this material is collateral. and i will deny the subpoena. >> i think it's an outrageous ruling and we're going to appeal. this is bombshell evidence and it's absolutely critical. it's relevant, germane, material. >> you won. you didn't have to give up the tapes. >> yes. i was very pleased that we won and thought that's the end of it. great. >> and then you lost on appeal. >> right. >> and then you thought? >> i thought i have to send the tapes. >> so did he say, laura, please don't give up those tapes? >> he requested i not give up the tapes. >> what did you tell him? >> no. that i had to give them up. >> did you feel a need to protect him? >> no. he's very capable of protecting himself. >> as for mckinney, she could no longer protect the tapes or her
privacy. so who told pat mckenna you had these tapes? >> that, i don't know. that person has never been revealed to me. >> still a mystery? >> still a mystery. i don't know. >> so to this day you don't know who gave you up, basically to the defense. >> no. i don't know who called. >> did you stop and think about what you should next do? coming up, o.j. simpson charged with murder and mark fuhrman still taping. more from the infamous tapes you've never heard. speak now. (coughs) so sorry. oh no... it's just that your friend daryl here is supposed to be live streaming the wedding and he's not getting any service. i missed, like, the whole thing. what? and i just got an unlimited plan. it's the right plan, wrong network. you see, verizon has the largest,
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>> yeah, the 77th. leave that old station. it's got the smell of -- >> how did you stomach listening to that over and over again? >> those comments that he used made me feel repulsed but also it lit a fire under me. it's despicable, the fact he can think about that and talk like that makes me think it's happening and so i have to find a way to reflect that. >> so it just empowered you. >> it just pissed me off. >> and it made her a crucial player in the trial of the century. she could have profited handsomely from those tapes but she didn't. >> i would never do that. i would never have sold the tapes. >> is it true you were offered $250,000 for them?
s. >> i was. >> why didn't you sell them? >> no one, talking about me, should be profiting from this tragedy people have to live with every day of their life. >> but mckinney was still thrust into the spotlight and that meant anxiety and fear. i remember you got a lot of death threats. a lot of people were angry with you. they didn't understand why these tapes had to come about. >> right. >> did you feel safe during all of that? >> no. i was extremely scared. >> in a matter of the people of state of california. >> the verdict didn't make her feel any safer. >> we find the defendant not guilty of the crime of murder. >> what was your reaction to the verdict when o.j. simpson was found not guilty? >> i didn't go out of the house for a while. >> really? >> yes. >> why?
>> there was the reality that maybe the tapes had something to do with the jury's verdict and because of that i would be persona non grata in many people's eyes. >> mark fuhrman certainly was exposed as a liar and forced to go silent. >> detective fuhrman, did you plant or manufacture any evidence in this case? >> i assert my fifth amendment privilege. >> but his silence would not protect him. his voice on those tapes could not be erased. excerpts you are now hearing for the very first time. >> you got to be a borderline sociopath, you have to be violent and walk away from blood and go to dinner. you have to be able to shoot
people, beat people beyond recognition and go home and hug your little kids. you don't pack those qualities. no women do, and if you do they're either so ugly or they're lesbians or so dyke-ish that they're not women anymore. they're like caught in between it's like half in a door and half out. you know they're caught between dimensions. there's just no way to do it all. >> stories of alleged sexism, racism, and police brutality. mckinney's tapes would impact more than just the o.j. simpson trial. they would impugn the integrity of the lapd. when you heard those tape recordings for the first time, what did you think? >> it was a belly punch at the wrong time.
and you go how could this have happened to us? how did we even let him stay on the job? >> he was an lapd assistant chief when a task force investigated everything fuhrman said on those tapes. why had he been allowed to behave the way he did for so long and not be held accountable? >> because the command staff that was in charge of him did not do the job they should have done, which is to deal with the issue in a strong manner. so it was kind of shunted off to the side. boys will be boys and we needed to tell the organization if you even claim to be engaged in this kind of behavior, we'll investigate it and let chips fall where they may. and secondly, if it was within statute, then we would take it to the district attorney and file on it it. >> in 1997 the task force
released this report, keeping secret portions of the tapes. excerpts not played in court and never made public until now. this is the confidential version of that report. it reveals more of fuhrman's disturbing recordings. quote, grabbed her by the hair and stuck a gun to her head. held her like this. threw the -- down the stairs. and quote i'd pick up three or four gang members, bring them to the station. take one in the basement and just beat the dog out of him." >> hundreds of inert views were conducted and nearly a quarter of a million documents were reviewed. >> in the end the task force confirmed 12 of 29 events described by fuhrman. but concluded that he embellished a lot, that just about everything he
told mckinney was bigger, bloodier and more violent than the actual events. with one exception. m.a.w. men against women. >> did you ever at any point feel i need to report what he's saying? this is dangerous? >> no. no, i didn't. i really believe that if i could tell the story in a way that was honest and fair with a strong narrative that i could help inform people. >> fuhrman's words would inspire mckinney's writing for decades. >> he told you he personally felt trapped. what did he mean by that? >> he was trying to articulate the depth of his soul. there is something with his own identity that was connected to being a police officer and so much of it was being besmirched by having to work with women that if he'd been in a different
time in history, he would have been more appreciated, more respected, more openly respected by people. next, fuhrman worries more about the movie than the murder. >> and whatever happened to mckinney's screenplay? "how to win at business." step one: point decisively with the arm of your glasses. abracadabra. the stage is yours. step two: choose la quinta. the only hotel where you can redeem loyalty points for a free night-instantly and win at business. when heartburn hits fight back fast with new tums chewy bites. fast relief in every bite. crunchy outside. chewy inside. tum tum tum tum new tums chewy bites.
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mark fuhrman was still getting together with you and recording these tapes after the murders had happened. did you find that odd at all, that he was okay being recorded talking about this? >> no. no. because he liked to talk about his thoughts and his feelings. >> stunning to hear now, but not really surprising when looking back on a man known to be cocky. >> do you use the word "nigger"? >> no, sir. >> and pled no contest to perjury. but in his 1997 book, fuhrman apologized, writing, "in my
heart i always knew it was wrong, even if i said them only to create a fictional story. my first fall our was the lure of agreed and the second was my lack of compassion." >> i'm not a racist. >> fuhrman also went on an apology tour, visiting diane sawyer, oprah, and larry king. >> i thought i knew better, being a policeman, how to make the most controversial, outrageous, violent, controversially crammed police show we could make. and i was wrong. i didn't know what i was doing. >> one thing fuhrman has said is, eh, at times maybe i got a little carried away talking to laura. i don't know if you've heard that before. what's your reaction to that? >> he said those things, so he believed them. but i don't think he got carried away. i think he was truthful. >> today, no longer a screenplay consultant or a cop, fuhrman, who declined to be interviewed
for this program, is an author and tv crime analyst. as for laura hart mckinny -- >> screen writing is such an emotional journey. we have to be willing to be vulnerable. >> she teaches screenwriting at the university of north carolina school of the arts. and that screenplay she developed with mark fuhrman's help? it never became a movie. >> missouri scum who should not be allowed in her policemen and police women brotherhood. >> it became a book. >> he violated all principles by touching a female officer. he glanced at the notepad and pounded his heart, oh, god, kissing one policewoman in uniform and embarrassing it all. >> it's fiction. and the title? the same as fuhrman's real life secret society. men against women. was completing this book
therapeutic to you after all these decades? >> yes. >> publishing the book was therapeutic. but disclosing the tapes? still painful. for more than 20 years, you were the woman with the tapes that changed the face of this trial. what has that been like for you? >> it hasn't been good, i will say. that part hasn't been good. i've felt that ashamed would be wrong, but i have felt bad that the revelation of the tapes could have actually had something to do with the verdict. >> -- simpson not guilty of murder -- >> could have actually helped to make a guilty man go free. >> if this is your verdict, so say you one, so say you all.
>> but those tapes have also done exactly what mckinny started out to do. chief willie williams proposed sweeping changes in how his department handles sexual harassment. >> it doesn't happen under my watch, period. >> are you glad laura recorded mark fuhrman? >> absolutely. it had a huge impact on the o.j. simpson trial and made us look absolutely horrible within our minority community. they said, look, we've been saying all along that you used the "n" word, that you lie. and it took years after this to deal with it. >> we will be doing the reorganization of the department, and it will serve the best interests of the duties of this department and the citizens of los angeles.
>> are you glad laura recorded mark fuhrman? >> i'm very pleased. most things, hard lessons, are things that are thrust upon you when you don't ask for them and you have to react to them. you think everybody is better for it. >> i think those tapes spoke volumes. the revelation was priceless. >> decades later, are you glad you didn't destroy those tapes? >> yes. >> why? >> i have three sons. i would have a very hard time today sitting here thinking of my sons and telling them that i destroyed something that i was proud that i had done. >> why would he want to keep talking to you for so many years? did he ever say why? >> he wanted to be infamous. >> that's what he said? >> he said that. >> but infamous is very
>> when "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. days after a senior republican senator referred to the white house as adult day care, the man that many believe is in charge of supervising the president, chief of staff john kelly, was sent out before the press to shoot down reports that the president's tantrums are causing big problems. the day began as it often does with a presidential outburst on twitter. this one aimed at the struggling people of puerto rico. who three weeks after hurricane maria are still suffering through an acute deadly crisis, many lacking access to safe water and food, and urgent medical care. we'll have the latest from the island coming up later this hour. today the president appeared to blame puerto rico for its current situation, threatening to cut off federal recovery efforts. i quote him here. electric and all infrastructure were disaster before hurricanes. congress to decide how much to spend. we cannot keep fema, the
military, and the first respond hoarse have been amazing under the most difficult circumstances in pr forever." an agency spokesperson tweeting, fema will be with puerto rico, u.s. virgin islands, every state and territory impacted by disaster every day, supporting throughout their response and recovery. asked about trump's tweets the chief of staff put a kinder, genter spin on the president's core message. >> does president trump believe that the people of puerto rico are american citizens? >> yes. >> -- who deserve the same access to federal aid as people who live in texas and florida? >> yes. >> what is his tweet about, then? >> which tweet? >> the tweet where he says we can't be in puerto rico forever. >> i think he said the u.s. military and fema can't be in there forever, right? >> he did, first responders -- >> first responders. this country, our country, will stand with those american citizens in puerto rico until the job is done. but the tweet about fema and d.o.d., read military, is exactly accurate. they're not going to be there
forever. and the whole point is to start to work yourself out of a job and transition to the rebuilding process. >> kelly went on to deny a series of reports suggesting his efforts to contain the president, as senator bob corker put it, are cut putting kelly's own job in jeopardy. according to the "l.a. times" he and the president have engaged in shouting matches. "vanity fair" reported kelly is miserable in his job, remaining out of a sense of duty to keep trump from making some sort of disastrous decision. none of that is true, kelly said. >> although i read it all the time, pretty consistently, i'm not quitting today. i don't believe, and i just talked to the president, i don't think i'm being fired today. and i am not so frustrated in this job that i'm thinking of leaving. i will tell you this is the hardest job i've ever had. this is, in my view, the most
important job i ever had. >> the chief of staff adopted the president's latest attacks on the press directed specifically at nbc news over a couple of damaging report in the last week, first that the secretary of state rex tillerson openly disparaged the president, referring to him as a "moron." and then that the president wanted a ten-fold increase in the u.s. nuclear arsenal. the president reacted with what was even, for him, a fairly astonishing assault on the core concept of the first amendment. threatening to revoke the network's broadcast license, which doesn't exist by the way, and shut down unwelcome coverage. today his own chief of staff took his own swipe at the press. >> my only frustration, with all due respect to everyone in the room, is when i come to work in the morning and read about things i allegedly said or things that mr. trump allegedly said or people who are going to be fired or whatever. and it's just not true. it is astounding to me how much is misreport the.
i will give you the benefit of the doubt that you are operating off of contacts, leaks, whatever you call them. but i would just offer to you the advice, i'd say -- you know, maybe develop some better sources. >> amid looming confrontations with north korea and iran and growing concerns about whether the president's aides can restrain him from lashing out, kelly insisted the president doesn't need babysitting. >> i was not sent in or i was not brought to this job to control anything but the flow of information to our president so that he could make the best decisions. i have found that mr. trump, from the day i met him, does not -- is a decisive guy, he's a very thoughtful man i should say. again, i was not sent in or brought in to control him. and you should not measure my effectiveness as a chief of staff by what you think i should be doing. >> political analyst who covers
the white house for "usa today" was at the briefing. what did you make of that today, heidi? >> we has had a brutal cycle, he being the president, and john kelly. if you remember, when kelly came in the headline was that all that's leaks were going to go away, he would instill discipline in this white house. yet you have all these stories coming out about shouting matches, about kelly possibly even leaving. and so just like they did when nbc's story came out about rex tillerson, immediately he's pushed out to talk to the press and to shoot it all down. and to deny it. and he can do that. he can deny it. because these sources are background. i will tell you, and you know this already, that there's no way we would get this reporting unless these sources were speaking on background. because they would be fired for talking like this. it doesn't make that information untrue. in fact, it's-highly unlikely that the information is untrue. and i guess it's good at least that kelly said, i give you the
benefit of the doubt that you have sources. instead of like his boss who just called it all fake. >> his boss, the president of the united states, the theory he says is it's entirely made up. he accuses of press of totally fabricating this when he's not threatening to shut them down or revoke the licenses of newspapers, which also don't exist. we should note here, kelly is also doing, it strikes me, a similar job to what sean spicer had today on the first -- had to do on the first day of the administration, to come out in the face of a set of circumstances people can see pretty clearly and essentially deny the evident right in front of their face. >> he did. but i would say at least he didn't go so far as to say outright untruths. and he was actually quite charming in his engagement with the press in terms of at least keeping a pleasant demeanor, not coming out there angry and scowling at us, calling us the disgusting media, and essentially threatening the
first amendment. he basically, you know, is i think trying to make a bridge to a certain extent with the media. it's interesting today that i was in this health care executive order announcement with the president and he actually turned around and thanked us all. which i guess is not usual. so i think there is a certain part of this that they're trying to immediately address some of these stories when they come out and put these people out in front of the media. >> but one of the things that kelly says, he called the president very thoughtful. it struck me that there's so many things you could say about the president, many adjectives. even if you wanted to praise the president there's lots of things you could say, canny, great political instincts, incredible way of capturing people's attention. he's not a very thoughtful person by basically the determination of every single person around him who's ever talked about him. >> that's an opinion. and he's welcome to his opinions. and i guess after having dealt with some of the previous individuals who have come out there and actually said outright
untruths, like verifiably untrue things that are not factual, at least he's not going -- >> you're going to say that's in the territory of a characterization, as opposed to just like it was the most-watched inauguration. -heidi, thank you for joining me. congresswoman maxine waters is a democrat from california. congresswoman, there's been a story that kelly is a sort of restraining force, that people should be happy that he's there if they're worried about the president's temperament or worried about the president's current condition, and that it's good to have him there. is that your opinion? >> my opinion is it won't last for long. this president will not get along with him for very long. this president has the kind of disposition that would cause him to confront, argue with, fight with, shout at, those people around him. and they're only going to take
it for so long. if you notice what kelly was saying, he was saying he was not fired today. he was not leaving today. and i don't know if he was qualifying that or not, but i think that was instructive. that even he knows it can't last very much longer. >> at some point, kelly said something about the views of democrats on security and what he called open borders. i wanted to play that for you and get your response to it because he was characterizing the immigration views of folks like yourself and members of your party, take a listen. >> all right. >> i believe that honest men and women can disagree on anything, politically or otherwise. the one thing i draw a little bit of a line to is on the security of the nation. there are certainly people in our country that have the opinion that open borders, near open borders are fine, people should be able to come and go. there are others, myself included, you can bet the
president, but i think the majority of americans feel as though security on the borders is important. >> do you think that's an open -- open borders is an accurate characterization of a large view of folks in washington, for instance, on immigration? >> absolutely not. if he's truly concerned about security he should be concerned about the way the president is goading with the north korea situation. he and kim jong-un are basically talking to each other in ways that corker has said could lead us into third world war. so if he's really concerned about security, he should be concerned about whether or not this president is going to continue the kind of talking and goading that he's doing that would cause this kim jong-un, who we consider to be unstable, to launch a very devastating missile into our country with perhaps a nuclear war ahead. >> there's reporting indicating
that the president, the decision which we're expecting forthcoming tomorrow in which he decertifies the iran bill, that was essentially born of a fit of pique, that the president was angry, he felt cornered, that the experts had come to him and told him, no, they're complying with the deal and he should certify it, "the washington post" reporting he threw a fit, he was furious, really furious, it's clear he felt jammed and that's why the white house security adviser, h.r. mcmaster and others, supported this plan to kick it to congress. what do you make of that? what are the consequences of making policy on something like this in this fashion? >> it's just unseemly that the president of the united states would be making policy on his own. he's been advised by everybody, republicans and democrats, that he should not be undoing the iran deal. we have other nations, six other nations, that are involved with us in this deal. and so for him to have america look as if it wants to undo the
deal, want to decertify them, he basically is saying he knows better than anybody. but of course during the campaign he said he knows more than the generals. he really believes that and it's dangerous. for members of congress to sit back and watch what he's doing and watch the damage that he's doing in this country and to watch him just guide us into a possible war, and not speak up because they're concerned about their re-election, is not responsible. i believe it is time for republicans especially to walk over to the white house and tell him enough is enough. as a matter of fact -- >> what do you mean by that -- >> i think he should be impeached. >> al green was going to introduce a resolution, i was going to ask you if you would vote for impeachment knowing what you know now mr. when you say republicans going over and saying enough is enough what do you mean by that tangibly? >> what i mean is republicans should step up to the plate and
confront the fact that this president appears to be unstable that he appears to be taking us into war, that he has openly obstructed justice in front of our face, and that increasingly we're finding that there's more and more lies about the connection with russia. i believe that there really has been collusion. and i do think that our special counsel mueller is going to connect those dots. but i think there's enough now that we all know and we all see and we all understand that we should be moving on impeachment. >> congresswoman maxine waters, always a pleasure. >> you're welcome, thank you. ben howe, writer for "red state," conservative political blog, and lonny chen, what did you make of kelly's performance today? >> you know, i thought that it was a sincere performance. i think he did fine. i thought the most interesting thing about the exchange was, you know, this is a guy who has commanded large forces of soldiers. this is a guy who's been in war multiple times. he's been shot at no doubt.
and he said the hardest job he's ever had, the hardest job, is being the white house chief of staff. that to me is indicative, i think, of the challenges that face this presidency and this white house. and the fact that kelly's still in there i think is a testament to john kelly. >> ben, the sort of going after the press which has been a kind of constant theme, an exchange where senator ben sass of nebraska rapped the president for his decertification, delicensing. do you think there's broad conservative revulsion at that? or do they generally feel, yeah, these people are our enemies? >> it's been interesting to watch, actually. i think a lot of conservatives in previous administrations, if a president was going to go after the press, one of the first things after their license specifically, i think they would have said, why is the government involved in licensing media anyway? they'd talk free markets and things like that. that's what i would have done. but instead they seem to play by what a lot of them call the new
rules. which is the liberals made the rules, now we're going to play by them. so even though it might conflict with what should be their conservative point of view, they're going to end up taking the position, yeah let's take their license away, we're just following their new rules anyway. >> there is a great story, lonny that to me epitomized part of the problem that's at the core of this presidency, particularly domestic politics. the president's trying to get this tax proposal done, he's been sort of working on that while this sort of awful news cycle has swirled hem with corker comments. this is what bloomberg reported. months after the white house proposed ending a tax break for people in the high-tax states president trump grew angry when he learned the change would hurt some middle-income taxpayers. he keeps finding out what the actual substantive agenda is and keeps getting angry about it. what do you make of that? >> tax reform is complicated and it turns out health care is complicate toot. all of these issues have multiple dimensions. there's a reason why we haven't done a big tax reform since 1986.
and it's going to be challenging in any situation. when the white house has had to answer this question about the impact of their tax plan on middle income taxpayers, they've had to say, we can't guarantee that every middle income taxpayer is going to get a tax cut, we can't guarantee there won't be a single middle income taxpayer that won't see a tax increase. that's the reality. these are really tough issues and as they dig into it they're finding out how difficult that could be. >> trump is a terrible president who nonetheless has sounder political instincts tan anyone in the gop leadership, responding to the story from bloomberg. trump who has in some ways political instincts about this stuff that i think is sounder than, say, paul ryan's. you've still got the ryan agenda and they cannot make the whole thing work. >> i think he's got great salesman instincts. and being a good salesman works well with the american people if you go past the media, go straight to twitter, things like that. i really think this whole administration would do a lot better if the people like kelly
wouldn't come out and try to translate for him and make it seem as though he's just this reasonable guy and has all these reasonable positions, when we've all got eyes, we can see how he is. and you know, if they would just be a little more honest, when they say he's a straight talker, he as straight talker, so embrace that and say, i wouldn't have said it but i'm not the president. >> i would say he's a weird mix of a sort of shockingly honest in some moments and incredibly, incredibly in your face deceptive in others. there's sort of all mixed together. >> i think some people call that diarrhea of the mouth, yeah. >> lonny, do you think -- the kelly is clearly out there because of the corker comments and because of the reporting about the background and because of tillerson, et cetera. i mean, do you think republicans are behind closed doors saying, where's this guy going? and concerned about that? >> well, i think republicans feel like there are a number of folks in the administration who
are playing very important roles. i think rex tillerson's one of them, jim mattis is another, certainly john kelly. the question becomes if those individuals end up leaving the administration for some reason, then what? i think there is certainly concern about the future of those individuals because i think a lot of folks feel like they're the people who are there promoting -- in some ways i guess more traditional conservative viewpoints on a lot of these issues. without them the question is, what comes next? there's more uncertainty ask, that worries people. >> ben howe and lonny chen, thank you both. tonight, fed up with congress, the president signs an executive order as part of a continued and sustained effort to dismantle obamacare. what his latest effort actually accomplishes in two minutes. when you have a cold stuff happens. shut down cold symptoms fast with maximum strength alka seltzer plus liquid gels.
sign the order, he forgot. >> we will have great health care in our country. thank you all very much. appreciate it, thank you. thank you very much, thank you. thank you everybody. oh! the most important thing. >> after that momentary lapse, the president did get around to signing the order which allows skimpier plans in some circumstances and could erode health care exchanges by drawing away healthier enrollees. the new order only part what was has been a brought campaign against the aca with congress repeatedly trying and failing to pass repeal and replace legislation, the administration has worked to chip away at the law including gutting the
advertisement budget for enrollment, slashing outreach funds to help people enroll, shutting down the obamacare sign-up site for 12 hours and almost every sunday of open enrollment, and cutting that open enrollment period. tweeting extensive how the executive order is another sabotage in the campaign, andy slavitt, good to have you here. >> great to be here. >> you know this inside and out. let's start with what do you mean -- i love the term synthetic repeal, what's that mean? >> look, the republican party and trump ran seven years of raising nine figures of money on a promise that they would simply repeal and replace the aca. so going back as we go into 2018, an election year, oh, we can't do it, it's not a possibility. so i think left to his own devices, they're coming up with everything they can do to say, forget john mccain, he's a rhino, we're going to be able to
do everything that we promised to do through this executive order and by cutting some medicaid through the tax bill. >> so i guess what does that mean for people? so the executive order today combined with what they've been doing. what does that mean for the landscape of health care? >> think about the major pieces of repeal. one of them was that they were going to remove the federal protections against pre-existing conditions. according to the american academy of actuaries who looked at the executive order as it came out today, that's exactly what this does. the other thing they're going -- >> removes protections for pre-existing conditions? >> it does it by essentially creating a second plan as you described to your viewers earlier. and that plan sitting alongside the aca essentially, with no rules, no regulations, is basically designed to allow young, healthy people -- this is great for 28-year-old males, can find cheaper policies as long as they don't get sick. but for everybody else brings their costs up. if you have a pre-existing condition that not only brings
your costs up but according to the actuaries they think many insurers will leave entirely and there may not be the availability of coverage. >> i saw a wide variety of health care groups today across spectrums and interests coming out against this. there's a question how long this will take and if they'll actually do it. they've had a record of issuing executive orders. dave day has tracked this, they issue an executive order then no one does anything on it, it sits there. >> that's a really great point. if this scratches the president's itch to have done something, and then these orders go to treasury and to human services and labor and they take their time and put out some regs and water them down there here, we could actually -- and let the country move on to other issues, that would be a good thing. i think what people are fearful of, if you listened to his press conference, he said this is the beginning of a dismantling of the aca. i think we're going to have to
figure out whether he means it or whether this is his rhetoric. >> the theme is the aca tried to create this marketplace where you had healthy people and sick people and old people and young people, everyone pooling the risk together, smooth out the risk, you can charge premiums that are acceptable, subsidized by the golf. the theme it seems of everything they've done on this legislation at the executive level is hiving off healthy people, stopping the outreach to get them in giving them other options. >> right. i think that's a function of it not being the aca. i don't think that's his political philosophy. >> there's no political philosophy. >> conservative think tank in 1993 battling hillarycare, they said let's create one risk pool, that would be the best idea possible. you've got essentially a man who feels he needs to deliver something for his donors. >> there's this fundamental conceptual promiscuousness where cassidy-graham, three weeks ago, which would be 50 different state regimes, the opposite of take the lines off around the
states, there's no unifying principle here. >> i think if you give graham another few months, he's so good at the sunday shows, he might have come up with a unifying sounding theme. the problem is in reality when they say we're going to give states more authority, you look at what happened. oklahoma, minnesota. they submitted waivers to the trump administration. think didn't get them approved. they didn't even get answers. >> like they literally wrote to them and said, what's up? and got nothing. >> it's only federalism, you know. that's really what we're dealing with. >> an day slavitt, thanks for joining me. as desperation mounts on the numbers of americans dying on the island continues to rise, why on earth did the president of the united states threaten to pull federal emergency response out of puerto rico?
three weeks after hurricane maria the government puts the official 91 of people dead at 49. but two democratic members of congress want a federal audit on that number citing recent reports suggesting the death toll is much higher than is being officially acknowledged. while hundreds of people remain unaccounted for, the president implied that he is already ready to abandon the federal recovery effort saying in a statement released on twitter, we cannot keep team mafema and military responders in pr forever. white house chief of staff explained the comment was exactly accurate, fema and the u.s. military continue be in puerto rico doing disaster recovery for literal forever. that seems to miss the point. the president suged this 22 days after the storm made landfall in puerto rico. fema was present in new orleans for six years after hurricane katrina.
if the president pull s recover effort on 3.5 million american citizens, 85% of the island without power, 40% without clean drinking water. a cbs reporter captured images of cars lining up to get freshwater from a pvc pipe that tapped into a hillside stream. here's a picture of a fema flyer instructing an area without internet or cell phone coverage to call or register online for disaster assistance. the journalist who snapped that picture joins me next. oh my gosh! how are you? well watch this. i pop that in there. press brew. that's it. look how much coffee's in here? fresh coffee. so rich. i love it. that's why you should be a keurig man! full-bodied. are you sure you're describing the coffee and not me? do you wear this every day? everyday. i'd never take it off. are you ready to say goodbye to it? go! go! ta da! a terrarium. that's it. we brewed the love, right guys? (all) yes.
without pg&e's assistance, without their training our collaboration with pg&e is centered around public safety. we could not do our mission to keep our community safe. anytime we are responding to a structure fire, one of the first calls you make is for pg&e for gas and electric safety. it's my job to make sure that they have the training that they need to make the scene safe for themselves and for the public. it's hands-on training actually turning valves, turning systems off, looking at different wire systems all that training is crucial to keeping our community safe and our firefighters safe. together, we're building a better california.
we're currently in yasco, puerto rico. we have an urgent message to get out about what's really going on here in western puerto rico. right now we're only giving out to the people in the mountains one small meal and six bottles of water per family. that is all they're getting. >> that was former army cavalry scout jason maddie on the ground in a town of about 30,000. molly crabapple just got back from puerto rico and joins me now. i know your dad's from the island, you have friends there. you got outside san juan, where were you? >> i was in barrio mariana, a small village, the first place on the island that the hurricane hit. >> and what was -- how much federal presence did you see there in terms of military or fema or federal officials? >> i personally saw zero
presence. when i was there, the only aid that people in mariana had received was a municipal truck that gave people two small bottles of water, a pack of tropical-flavored skittles, a newt ra grain bar, and a pack of virginia sausages. i do know the military and the fbi came about three weeks after the hurricane and they did distribute mres and water. but that was pretty much it. >> in terms of how people are living their lives there, i'm assuming there was no electricity. >> none. >> and how were people -- how are people getting the bakes? which is water, electricity, food? >> some people had generators. but if you have a generator, your life becomes an endless wait on six-hour lines for diesel. to get water, you either waited fare hours and hours at costco using your scarce reserves of gasoline, or you went to a creek on the side of the mountain and collected it in a jug. >> so people were just getting rainwater off a creek?
>> or springwater off a creek, that's what i did. i brought a filter, we'd purify it. this is very dangerous because disease is spreading on the island because there were all of these animal corpses that were left to rot. it's getting into the water. >> so it sounds like a nonfunctional situation. so it's like -- sounds like what's happening is people's days are taken up with the basics of survival. there's nothing -- no one's going to work or doing the things that you would normally do. >> exactly. communication is so bad that even pharmaceutical companies, which are the biggest industries, are calling into the one radio station to tell their workers whether or not to come to work. most people don't have the ability to get to their jobs. their credit cards don't work. their ebt cards don't work. huge lines to access the atm. $200 maximum. that cash will run out. so it's the struggle for survival. but the thing about puerto
ricons is that this is a very, very close-knit culture, a culture of family, friends, barrios, neighborhoods. and so people are taking care of each other. it's not the federal government that's taking care of people. it's not fema. it's people taking care of each other. in barrio mariana, the couple that i stayed with, christine and luis rodriguez sanchez, set up a community kitchen that's feeding hundreds of people. these community kitchens are happening all over the island. as people give up on help from fema and decide to take caring for themselves and their neighbors into their own hands. >> how aware will people of this sort of -- the president's comments, the president's perspective towards puerto rico, what would the feelings about the federal government and its involvement? >> one older woman i spoke to said, oh, trump came into the richest town in puerto rico and threw toilet paper at people's heads, he's trying to humiliate us. in general it's viewed as an
extension of the same racist, colonialist, stereotypical thinking that america has had for puerto rico since it poll noised it in 1898. >> do you think -- do folks have hope that things are going to change in the short-term? or this sense that this -- adjustments we've made to eke out survival, which is food, water, electricity, diesel, that that is going to be the status quo for a while? >> some people have accepted that that will be the status quo for a while and are trying to build on it. with these community efforts. other people are sort of hanging on. one woman that i met, her mother who has alzheimer's and dementia and can't speak, she was kicked out of her nursing home because there was no electricity. doesn't have access to medicine. she's trying to keep her mother alive in this crushing heat with no access to clean water. someone like that needs help as soon as possible. they can't just adjustment. >> molly crab apple, thank you for your reporting, thank you for joining us. why a senior facebook
executive says owe the american people an apology. plus tonight's "thing 1, thing 2." it's a good one next. that can fix itself? is that the work of wizards? yes. technical wizards. who, with the visionary engineers at ge, developed predix- giving plane engines the ability to self-diagnose problems, and alert those who can fix them. and that's no illusion. magic can't make digital transformation happen. but we can.
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"thing 1" tonight, senator lindsey graham gave a 33-minute interview to "golf" magazine to defend his claim that during a round of golf on monday, president trump shot a 73 in windy and wet conditions. that contention raised plenty of eyebrows because it would mean the 71-year-old president would rank among the best senior golfers in the entire world. for some context, consider hall of fame golfer hale irwin, who turned 72 in june, has a scoring average of just over 73 in the seven champions tour events he's played this year. but in the course of attempting to justify his claim, the president shot a 73, president graham perhaps inadvertently gave away trump's secret for success on the course -- he cheats. that's "92" in 60 seconds.
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in defending his implausible claim president trump shot a 73 on the golf course monday, senator lindsey graham admitted to "golf" magazine the president likes to take gimme putts instead of finishing out the hole. we know what the president considers a gimme and it is generous. sports writer rick riley told "the washington post" trump once called a gimme on what should have been a chip shot adding, when it comes to cheating he's an 11 on a detail 1 to 10. the president seen here driving his golf cart onto the green is a notorious cheater on the course and there are plenty of stories illustrating how he does it. reportedly sometimes respond to a shot he duffed by playing a second ball and carrying on as if the first shot never happened. tmz reporting after trump shanked his shoot out of bounds he drove down the course, turned his golf cart to block him as he tu
took a ball out of his pocket rolled the bat into the roof. he's been called a cheater by alex cooper, samuel jackson, and de la hoya, who said trump hit a ball into the bushes then dropped another one three feet from the hole like it was there the whole time. the president denies all this of course. he forced former ceo jeff immedical to tell a very different story. >> jeff actually watched me make a hole in one, can you believe that? should you tell that story? actually said i was the best golfer of all the rich people. to be exact. and then i got ahold of him. y... ...you might be missing something... ♪ ...your eyes. that's why there's ocuvite. it helps replenish nutrients your eyes can lose as you age. nourish your eyes to help keep them healthy. ocuvite. be good to your eyes.
particular russian troll farm. and reporting indicates the ads were targeted to certain groups, often focusing on hot-button issues like gun rights or border security. if you look carefully there's a clue. "why do i have a gun? because it's easier for my family to get me out of jail than the cemetery." the spelling often a mistake by russians speaking english. with 3,000 ads reportedly reaching 10 million people in the run-up to the presidential election, chief operating officer sheryl sandberg went to meet with the house intelligence committee to address concerns about these ads and how they were used. the house intelligence committee plans to release the 3,000 ads to the public after the tech companies facebook, twitter testify before congress. it's particular facebook has created a system it's struggling to control.
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she apologized and the benign platform defense. >> we're a platform where people express themselves every day and keep our platform as free of abuse as possible. we're a new kind of platform. in our heart, we're a tech company. we don't hire reporters, no one's a journalist. we don't cover the news. but when we say that, we're not saying we don't have a responsibility. in fact, we're a new kind of platform with our size we think we have more responsibility. >> co-editor of a platform in some ways and senior editor of "new york" magazine. they are joining me now. it's like, what are you? what are you? what is facebook? >> it's a platform, sure. it's also a community about 2 billion people, it's also a publisher, an advertising company and also the most advanced surveillance system on the planet and it's all of these things at once and some of these
things have very mutually exclusive incentives and responsibilities. >> it strikes me that one of the things max said there is key. it's an advertising platform. the way that they make money is through surveillance and advertising, which is they figure out who you are and then they sell ads to target you and whatever they're going to do is they are not going to want to do anything that cuts into that. >> bingo. more than anything, facebook monetizes your attention in mind, the users. there was a time on the internet when we didn't have to go to these walled gardens to connect with our friends when we had websites that were sort of more independent. we all know that half of americans are so -- get their news through facebook. what people don't know is that news publishers, in order to get the news to you, to get their campaign to you typically have to pay facebook and when we talk about ads in this context, which sheryl sandberg mentioned, even
as she brought up a red herring with twitter's handling of marsha blackburn's campaign ad, she mentioned that in this interview, she talked about how twitter made a bad call in banning a political ad. and then she said blackburn and everybody else, essentially everyone knows that in order to reach your audience on facebook, you have to pay. my site boingboing.net, you have to pay. here's the thing. sandberg said in that interview that it was traceable, the russians spyops campaign during the last election, so that was paid ads as well and they were paid for in rubles. so show me the receipts. if their in rubles, it shouldn't be that hard to track down and why not have facebook return that money, like everybody's
saying that hillary clinton ought to do with weinstein's money and everybody talking about the donations that harvey weinstein made and that the political beneficiaries of those donations should return it. i say facebook ought to return that because facebook is profiting off of this and they knew it when it was happening. >> did they know it when it was happening? that's the question, right? i think a lot about the parallel because i've spent a lot of time covering the financial crisis. a big question about the financial crisis is, were they done or be a borrow richist? was it huber rift or aborist. and with facebook, do they not know or not care or want to make a lot of money? >> i think it's both. they are so big and so widespread and so automated that they can't look at all of it all the time. >> buying an ad on facebook is like getting a candy bar from a vending machine. >> you don't have to talk to somebody for it and it's been great for small groups that need
it but it's also great for russians who might want to buy ads on facebook and not have anybody know that they are russian. >> do you think that the platform at the current size can continue in this way with the changes that someone like sandberg promises? xeni? >> absolutely not. what we're seeing right now is sheryl sandberg on the most earnest crime offensive crisis p.r. tour of all time. i think they both know that what they are staring at is the possibility of government regulations and they'd very much like to avoid that. as i heard yesterday earlier today on msnbc, this is not about relitigating the 2016 elections alone, although the result of that election is something that feels very unstable and very scary to a lot of us adults. >> right. >> but this is also about moving ahead. so if facebook, as i believe they did, was essentially
identified by russian intelligence as having some big, gaping security holes that could be exploited by russia for their own purposes, that has to be addressed in a much bigger way than just this sort of super well rehearsed pr event that happened today. it's not like questions were even rehearsed and i didn't hear an answer. i didn't hear real answers about, for instance, she was asked by axios, is it possible that the russian ad buy targeting and trump campaign overlapped? she didn't refer to it in government seeing it in due time. it seemed so disingenuous so not genuine and like a real insult to a lot of americans who have trust in facebook as a platform that doesn't profit off of pushing misinformation at us. and that's the thing. this is not about free speech.
they are not a nonprofit and this is about are you free to profit and are you something that harms america when you know it's harming america. >> is it the silicon -- >> they like the free speech argument and it's something that we all intuitively understand and support and facebook is not a government. it might sort of seem like a state or a government but free speech works in the united states because we have a very lengthy history body of law and judicial warnings and ways to hold the government accountable and to fight back and to appeal rulings and facebook is a giant black box with a few people at the very top and their ideas about what should be allowed and what shouldn't be is somewhere in there and sort of filtered out into moderator contracts
nbc news characterizing that race for governor as too early to call with the polls closed. democrats are bracing themselves for a comforting victory, where, of course, another devastating defeat. recent polling has shown northam with a slight edge but within the margin of error. gillespie, an aid to george b. push, is trying to help his establishment bonifides. if he wins, he can provide fellow republicans how to campaign in theably of trump. let's get the very latest from the race from our own steve kornacki. steve what do we know? >> well, it was 7:00. the polls closed in new jersey. we were an hour away. as you just showed. we have no actual votes in just yet. what can we show you from the exit polls? let's look at a few of the key questions, we can tackle there. first of all, see if we can call up the areas. okay. >> that should call it up. here we go, the trump factors,
starting in virginia, the president, his approval rating, clocks in at 43%, by comparison, last time they had a governor's race in virginia, four years ago, barack obama was the president, his party's candidate did win, very close race. his number was 46 on election day, trump's today coming in at 43 in this exit poll. also, new jersey, can you see a blue state, not surprisingly 32% is the trump approval rating. keep your eye on this, more significant in this new jersey race, how about chris christie, throughout as time as to have, he peaked at 77% back during hurricane sandy, all way down in the exit poll, a 19% approval rating for chris christie as his lt. gov. tries to succeed him there, back to virginia, obviously the marquee race, something else we can tell you. the story last year in the election of donald trump was that social class split among white college white non-college voters. what share of the elect terror
governor. >> let me ask you about trump, how's he do? is it that thing you get more trump, like the oliver north, we knew the further you got from d.c. the signs would be on the lawns. it was simple. its not the same with trump. >> two-thirds of people in virginia live in cities and suburbs. it's in those cities and suburbs the enmity for the president is greatest. maybe it's an accident of geography, virginia is across the frifr you all in washington. there is not much that donald trump said or done hasn't had an immediate and measured effect on suburban virginia. whether it was the perceived muslim ban, the freeze on federal employment. and the threatened shutdown of the federal government. the president's gambit to squeeze money for the democrats for the wall on the border with mexico. >> let's talk about the house of delegates, the lower house down there in virginia. do you think that will give us a reason for the democrats to pick
up the u.s. house next november? >> it's tricky, mr. matthews. the legislature in virginia when controlled by the democrats and now controlled by the republicans has elevated to a high art, hyper partisan mandering, that goes a long way to protecting incumbents. >> that said, there is 54 of 66 republican seats contested and in northern virginia, where the turnouts are running higher, it's possible, underscore that, possible, that there could be a wave effect and some of these republican incumbents in these fast growing increasingly diverse outer suburbs of d.c. could be in trouble. >> yeah. let's get one thing straight, jeff, you are the sophisticated gentleman with the bow tie, i'm not mr. matthews, i'm chris matthews. thank you for your dignitary. i was impressed by your sophistication and nuance, thank you so much, jeff shapiro, you
choice and they're sensitive about it. you have african-americans voting in big numbers now. is that still a state that you guys own? >> well, virginia is a purple state. no doubt about it. that's why this election will be close. virginia is and 66 republicans in the house of delegates. we're changing that, that was a hyper jerry mannederer. one thing mr. sha pier rocks i will call you mr. matthews tonight. >> please. >> one thing that is so important about this is i think those down ballot races, i spoke to -- >> so you buy this as a leading indicator of what your party can do next november few pick up ten seats or so in the assembly there and the house of delegates in that's a good sign? >> i think it's a good sign. we'll see what happens tonight. i met with most if not all of the challengers, in the last three or four cycles, chris, democrats only contested 45 or so seats. so we see the other 50, 55.
we have 88 candidates this time. they are spectacular candidates. and they're going to drive turnout in their districts. >> they're obviously not financial to win 88 seats, when you if et the people to vote. >> when hillary clinton won last year, you have a republican incumbent. they must be your happy hunting ground. you like them. >> we need 17 of them and 17 seats to flip the dell gather. that's a tall order. >> will you get 17? >> i think that's a tall order tonight. i think the last time that democrats won both new jersey and virginia governors races was 2005. we know what happened in 2006. and the reason we're winning is because i spent a lot of time in both states, people are talking about health care. they see what donald trump is doing. >> that i have lfd ones with an opioid addiction issue. they're seeing this president take away their access. in virginia, they haven't expanded medicare. why? because the republican-dominated
house and senate have said no people understand that. and virginia looks a lot like america, the diversity of america. >> we have exit polling saying health care is the number one issue in america. i have a problem. you argue about the republican tax bill, which i think should get near passed. but you don't offer an alternative to rebuild this country. why do democrats fear to talk about construction, jobs, good jobs, railways, fixing up the country and building a big intercontinental railroad system. doing something that catches up to the rest of the world? why do democrats support public enterprise? >> i do that all the time, it's about bold opportunities for every community for everyone. >> stop dithering what republicans are doing and outmatch them. >> thank you. >> he does not claim the right to remove the nominee for president. president trump has cast a long shadow over the race, despite having just a 41% approval rating in virginia, not so high.
i think it went up today to 43 in the exits. from seoul, south korea, the president urged his supporters, from south korea, tweeting afl northam will allow crime to be rampant and he is weak on our vets and anti-second amendment and horrible in the virginia economy. vote ed dplespy from seoul, south korea, courtesy of the president. he kept him at arm's length, however, on the issues, will it be enough to win the governor's seat? for more i am joined by michael steele and msnbc political analyst. if donald trump is such a great president, why won't ed dplespy mention him, michael? you chuck him. look, it is a problem. if you loo tick buy the so much, you think he ought to get re-elected. renominated. >> that seems to be the impulse, why not show up with him? >> that's not necessarily reflected among candidates rung around the country or running in various races, they will be
reflected in the people in their community. you got to be sensitive to where, you know, popular national figure or unpopular national figure stand in your state as well. so the focus i went through this in 2006 wearing the brand of a party not very popular with the american people, certainly not within my own state. but you still forge ahead, you make your case to those folks about the issues that they care about, which i think ed gillespie did masterfully. to the point -- >> michael, don't talk leak you are on the side lines, you are in there, fishing in troubled waters. i know what you are up to. you are trying to fet african-americans not to vote democrat, cutting from the ballot of a lt. gov.. >> that is not what i'm doing at all. i have not done that at all. anywith thaun says that are dead wrong. the fact of the matter is myself and j.c. wattts on this program last night made it clear the concerns that we raised was the way the democratic party and this democratic candidate
tweeted the african-american candidate for lt. gov. and the type of leicester they put out that was two-faced. where he was on the leicester when it went to certain neighborhoods in the northern parts of virginia and it was off the 11 in other parts of virginia. so. >> you think he wasn't in goods and straights with the national labor unions? >> oh, chris, please, spare me, stop it. not in good straights with the unions, really? you tell me you think it's okay. chris. >> you say you aren't bothering the issue, you are here arguing the issue. which is snit. >> i'm saying the fact that you want to side step it. because you know daggone well if a republican put out two pamphlets one showing a plaque candidate, the other showing it off 2 pamphlet that you will be screaming to high heaven. will you not get away with it, playing this game. americans push back on it from i share such suspicions as those you just voiced. i just wanted to know whether you are in this fight or watching it. which is it?
>> oh, i'm in the fight, absolutely. no doubt about it. >> that's what i want to know. are you making your points, thank you, michael steele as always, well done with some charm. we'll be tracking right away the returns all night long, nbc news is characterizing the race. the polls are closed. it's too early to call. we'll be back with the russian investigation. there is always some russian. there is a trump campaign foreign adviser. he says he coordinated with five campaign officials five of them before and after his trip to moscow after maintaining he made it as a private citizen and met with top citizens while there. the glue gets thicker and stronger. this is trump's long-time body guard as interviewed by the house intelligence committee. trump doesn't like that guy being interviewed. i can tell you, this is "hardball" where the action is.
president trump attempteden the p an attempt in the demilitarized zone, he was turned back not by military problems but bath bad weather. nbc news' kelly o'donnell joins us from seoul with the story. it looks like sunshine over there right now? >> reporter: well, there is heavy fog here, chris. in advance of this trip the white house says president trump would not go. vice president mike pence visited earlier in the administration, so this was an important and surprise development that has now fallen apart. the pool traveling with the president had this information and it was held for a period of time as they made an attempt with marine one to get to the demilitarized zone. they were turned back due to fog, restaged, tried to go again and determined what we call a weather call that they would not be able to make this trip. it would have been important especially because the layout at
the roughly 150 smile strip between north korea and south korea is a place where, according to those other lawmakers who have visited and people like mike pence, you can look right into the eyes of north korean soldiers who are staged on the other side. there was an enormous uptick of security around president trump for this attempt that did not succeed due to weather. obviously the president had tried to make this a surprise, in part, because of the security threats that would be inher represent for this kind of a visit and leading up to this attempt, president trump had notably turned the volume down on his own rhetoric, not repeating some of his more belligerent provocative language that we have seen from him back in the united states. much more toned down while here in seoul. of course, seoul, itself, is only roughly 35 miles from the north korean border. so this was an attempt to make a surprise visit, which would have been an opportunity for the president to look right into north korea, a show of strength,
perhaps, certainly an opportunity for him to get some perspective, but apparently, weather has foiled that attempt for president trump to be right on the boarder with north korea. chris? great reporting from kelly o'donnell in seoul, south korea the latest in the russian investigation and much more as we are starting to see very early results in the virginia governor's race. right now we're calling it too early to call. back after this.
including jeff sessions, the future ag and hopess to 'ing the white house communication director as well as then campaign manager cory lewandowski. while page said he traveled as a private citizen to give his speech at the university of moscow, an emeanwhile shows he tried to coordinate the details with the campaign. the transcript reveals after his event in moscow, page reported to campaign officials in an e-mail -- i'll send you guys a readout soon regarding some incredible insights and outreach i've received from a few russian legislators and senior administration here. page told the committee he did not recall about adding new language to the rnc platform open ukraine before the convention, an e-mail shows page congratulating his colleagues in the campaign after the change was made, kw0e9, as for the ukraine amendment, excellent work. i'm joined by ken delaney, with nbc news, shannon pettypiece and
robert costa national political politico reporter and analyst, ken, it's great to have you on, can you give me a full picture now, take some time. what do we know of carter page's relationship with the trump campaign for months if not a year now, oh, he said i was a private citizen, a tourist, vis sarks acting like he had nothing to do with trump and his plan to become president and deal is with russia his way? >> reporter: that's right, chris, so i think his testimony moves the story forward in two important dimensions, one, we've confirmed once and for all he did meet with senior russian government and business officials after he suggested for a month, as you said, he did not. he met with a deputy prime minister. he met with the number two person at a major oil and gas company, this was a high level trip. while carter page may say he was taking it in a personal capacity, it seems fairly obvious the reason these important russians were meeting with carter page was because he
was trump's foreign policy adviser. the second thing this testimony shows is that he coordinated this trip with the campaign. he sought permission from the senior campaign official, one told nbc news today he tried to block the trip. he didn't think it was a good idea for carter image to go, page went around him to other officials who green lighted it. lastly, we know he reported back about the success of the trip and the coordination and the conversations he had with these russian officials. he told the campaign about it. so if we believe and it seems fairly clear that carter panel was somebody that russians were trying to use to infiltrate the trump campaign, russians were trying to se dues, recruit, whaev verb you want to use, it's very clear seniors in the trump campaign were on notice this was going on. they either didn't understand it or disregard it. chris. >> thank you so much, ken. let me go to shannon right now about the implications, it seems to me, you are talking the question, i don't think it's a question anymore. the idea of collusion between the russians and the trump
people, within they change the platform, dealing with ukraine to a pro russian position, good work, excellent work, it sounds to me like they're doing the work of a collusion. >> that is certainly how some people are interpreting all this. >> some don't interpret it that way. you are doing stuff and you are giving it credit to those who get it done for you. >> the story keeps changing, the meeting about adoption, that turned out to be a meeting about sanction, like carter page, who was supposed to be a list on a name and a name on a list of foreign policy advisers, then people forgot about him. then these contacts, george papadopoulos, i couldn't remember who that was. again all of these campaign contacts, we will find additional information about this campaign platform there robert, this whole problem is, this unpeeling of an onion, we keep unpeopleing it and unpeeling it. trump's position from the beginning has been there has
been no russian attempt to intervene in our election. that's fallen away a long time ago. you can see the flirtation with sessions an carter page and all these guys. how does trump look with a straight face to somebody like you and stick to that original position, there was no relationship? >> we have been waiting so long, watching the special counsel, it's hard to speculate what bob mueller is up to. we are seeing action on capitol hill. you see in the congressional committees, publishing the transcripts with carter page. few look at that lest up on the screen the five people he was talking into inside the campaign the most important person, tomorrow jeff sessions. >> he says there was no relationship. >> he is coming to capitol hill to testify before the judiciary committee. democrats will have tough questions about the whole scope of that relationship with carter image. >> shouldn't none, it seems that was beautifully set up like bill clinton goes in for his grand jury testimony when you know what the situation is. you know there is a conflict between what he said before and
he has to answer for. he gets into this language what do you mean is is, those things? nothing was reached to conclusion, but the way he was saying it before sessions was, we never met, it turns out we met, we met, there is no discussions about collusion. they did discuss what the russians wanted. >> a debate over what's a meet something well, i mean we met in passing. i don't necessarily call that a meeting. what's a meet something where, you know, we're getting down in the polls. >> we now know he admitted he was in a meeting, a shutoff with papadopoulos, close down his architect for a deal, another meeting. we know it all went on? how close are we getting to an argument here, there was collusion, robert? >> there was this outer rim of the campaign, it's arguable. >> trump had nothing to do with this? >> i'm not ready to say that at all. you look at sam clovis and george papadopoulos, inside the campaign, not talking to trump daily.
they were still in the company, they were having all these meetings. what bob mule ever, who is the connection? who knew what? >> history lesson, ehrlichman, mitchell. all those guys went down been nixon went down. >> there is mon a for the and a flynn indictment and more on manafort. >> what do you know about the flynn indictment? squeeze him in the father to protect the son? what are they trying to do to the guy? it was done in the rosenberg case, we will go after the part you love. can you save that part. you can't save yourself so make the deal. >> we see mueller moving in a smart methodical way. that's what you see a seasoned prosecutor like this do. >> he's frightening, anywaif. thank you. we're still tracking, of course, we will going to do throughout virginia that hot governor's race. again, nbc news, this gets kind of dull, characterizing the governor's race, it's too early to call. it's only:30.
it's too early. this is "hardball" where the action is.
democratic division, where political divisions are along the lines. in northern virginia, along with the rest of the country is not very southern, it's large populations from people all over the country and a democratic strong hold, largely i say because there are so many single women. in a turn for gillespie to win, he needs to offset that in the rural parts where people have southern accents in places like west virginia. for more let's check back with the experts, steve kornacki. tell me if i'm right or wrong. >> northern virginia is the place to look. that's where i want to dig deeper. we are starting to get numbers. gillespie is leading state wide, it tends to be northern virginia, the bulk comes in late. keep that in mind. let's focus on the counties a u.s. the washington, d.c., basically talking about sorry, i should get this pen selected, basically talking about, god, anyway, 25% or so of the votes come from those counties right outside washington, d.c. here's the thing to be looking at, when we showed you those exit polls earlier, we showed
almost half the college educated white vote was going to northam, that's a very high number for a democrat to be getting and that immediately sets alarm bells off saying, boy, are the democrats doing even better than expected in these northern virginia suburbs. let me give you something if i can get this thing to work. it seems to have frozen, i'm going to give you the numbers, prince william county, we're starting to get some somebodys right here on the map, northern virginia, keep this in meempbin. in this county prince william he lost by only three points. his goal was to be competitive there tonight. not necessarily win. be competitive, last year this county swung hard against trump, trump lost it by 21. we don't have all the votes in right now. right now you have gillespie trailing by 29 points in the votes that have been counted so far, so the question here for gillespie was, could he bring it baaing to more of a 2014 level in northern virginia or was he
become the to be stuck with the trump stigma early indications may be pointing in that direction. >> so he's getting what, gillespie is getting the trump vote? >> no, gillespie is getting the stigma in more than virginia. because he ran as that sort of bush-style republican in 2014. you couldn't win northern virginia. but he could keep the losses in check. >> getting the trump vote is not a food thing in virginia, anyway. that understand so much, i'm joined by a democratic strategist, author of "foxs in the hen house, how the republicans stole the south and the heartland" and what the democrats must do to run them out and also a democratic strategist. gentleman, let me get your two schools of thought on this, i was amazed over the last couple weeks, steve, that the dplespy who is all wrong for virginia, he's from catholic u up in washington. he grew up in new jersey, he's establishment.
a life-long lobbyist, a part of the republican leadership in the rnc. there is nothing southern about him, really. he's up against the guy northam, whatever you say about him, has a nice southern accent and seems home grown, yet, these numbers come out close, what do you make, steve? make of it? >> well, i think a part of what you are seeing, chris, is the trump folks are fired up. they're going to turn out all the time. i don't see them going anywhere. they will keep turning out for republican. so gillespie has. that what you have seen gillespie try to do in virginia is try to moderate himself in many ways. not in all ways, obviously, the moving of the monuments, things like that play into that base. i think he is trying to have his cake and eat it too, a bit. ly keep that trump base, i will eat into northern virginia and hopefully keep the lieutenant governor down, win big enough in southwest or south side of virginia, where republicans traditionally have done well, you saw mark warner in '01 jim
webb do well in southwest, the democrats have evened the score there a bit. gillespie's strategy is make myself look safe to enough voters and then rely on the base of the command without having to do too much to keep him? and he's made eight close race. >> well, let me ask the first question, steve, first to you, northam the democrating nominee and the democratic governor, was he woo iz to say, tear down the confederate statues? was he smart to do that politically? steve? >> i guess we'll find out shortly, right, chris. i think the polls in virginia, at least the ones i seen, most virginians say done tear them down. >> we have an exit poll, probably based on early voting today, the states say leave him alone, corn em, what is your thinking about this, politically? was eight smart move to challenge the old order that much? >> well, my thinking is, look,
if that's what you believe, take the stand and fight for it. i think democrats have suffered far too long by being mealy mouth in having it both ways. >> is it something to die for? >> christie is not going to lose an election in virginia fighting for, you know, saying that, take down the confederate flag. this is a state that obama won back-to-back majorities, hillary clinton was not the best candidate in the world, carried four or five points. we had two democratic senators, in terry mcauliffe as governor, i don't think democrats stayed offensive in a state like virginia. if he believes we are taking down confederate monuments, he should fight for it and don't have it both ways. >> so is kornell. we have battlefields in virginia. lots of them the bum run, all kind of stuff out in virginia. much of the war was fought in virginia. should we take the confederate monuments off the battlefield, kornell? >> the truth of the matter is,
the truth of the matter is, even most african voters when we did polling in virginia, they don't see us as the top issue concern for them, right? much more concern. >> i'm nailing you here, i want an answer, where do you stand? >> absolutely. let me be perfectly clear, i think they were traders to the united states of america, ha should come down. >> i think you are not running for office. when you run for office, let me know. >> that has a lot of nerve behind it keep the statues up or take them down? >> i respect the side that says that's a part of our history, i get it. we have history in museums. you can honor our history and still fought disparage what the south tried to do. the south tried to smr it the union. so i think the bigger issue, honestly, chris, is, democrats very often let these single polarizing issues define them. this race is not about that. republicans were voting against health care, against food stamps, voting against programs
for education, for the kids, look at what trump is doing on education, there are republicans in congress who have done nothing, nothing, to put money in the pockets of working americans. what are you talking about? >> i will tell you, i think hollywood is guilty. hollywood starting in the 30s starting building up the old south, it never existed. it was all this what's her name, scarlet o'hara, the nonsense, the wonders and joys of the old south, they never showed the slaves being beaten, put in chains, you never saw a change in chains, the old white tyranny look good, anyway, it was awful. we were brought up with that propaganda, thank you,ion why we were. thank you, i'm closer to you than you think, corn em, up next, the "hardball" roundtable, including that race, i don't think it's much of a race for new jersey governor. i think christie stumping up that state.
polls close in a half hour on is that one. you are watching "hardball."
welcome back to "hardball." you continue to watch the governor's race, across the river from here, nbc news characterized two early to call, the polls closed at 7:00 eastern the other big race for governor tonight, not exactly a squeaker is in new jersey, where polls were closed at 8:00 eastern. i am joined by chief national correspondent for the boston globe and 55ia sloan is a reporter our own and david you were making a point before, that this republican candidate for governor in virginia, we're all watching, it's the marquee election, has not bought the the same cut of the jib as donald j. trump. >> no, he's a establishment republican, a former national committee chairman. he's a lobbyist. this was a party guy. >> he's also a northerner. >> he's from new jersey. but he also, you know, he tried
to use the trump playbook late in the gym using cultural issue gls they'll them. >> confederate statues, saying they should be kept up. talking about gangs. >> ms-13. >> gangs. >> saying that the democratic candidate was against outlawing sank dhu area cities, voting negatively to make a point? right. >> also allowing fellens out, you know, out of prison. >> we are looking at it is not a call. in these experts of virginia that have educated me, it's not a surprise the republican has a load and we see a winner for an hour or two. there they always dos the raw vote. sense i watched the nixon-kennedy -- in the '60s, don't pay attention to the raw
vote. we have to give you the news, vivian. >> so what we see in virginia, traditionally after a presidential election, they will often go for a party not in the white house, with the exception of mcauliffe's second term. >> like remorse. >> whatever you want to call it. >> that has been the pattern so far, so whether or not we will see that again, we don't know, but president obama had really kind of dominate and pushed that state into the blue area for a while and then obviously now, you know, president trump is trying to sway it back. whether or not he is successful or not, it depends. whether or not that's an indication of how he has been dock, it's too early to tell i think. >> in some states like massachusetts that when you vote for governor, you don't vote ideologically, in utah, for years, they elect a governor to balance things off, massachusetts, regular or every other time picks -- it's a liberal state. virginia is like that. they can pick republican governors. they did.
>> you know, i do think you've got to say here, northam is not exactly the most dynamic candidate they engage christie in an argument. let's watch a portion of that action. >> it's easier to sit here and complain, it's easier. >> [ inaudible question ]. >> i'm sure, easier to sit here and complain, but you know what, that's the joy of public service, it's serving folks, it's serving folks like you that is really such a unique joy. it really s. >> why does he like to fight with anybody who wants to fight? >> this the a final bow. >> few want to fight, i'll fight with you.
>> this the a guy with a what 15% approval rating in virginia t. guy never gave -- >> she wants to be a part of. that. >> she was the leiutenant, you know, he gave his lt. gov. no chance. >> why did she run? >> for lt. gov. she was next in lean to run. >> she got her head bashed in, gail force head storms. >> a superstorms, you might say. >> been there. >> it will be tough for her tonight. that's an easy win. >> i have been saying for the dems to win the senate. they need double digits in the national polls the way the jury mannedering, votes tend to be crowded in the big cities. they got it. they got the highest spread in recorded history practically right now. they can win the house back if things continue the way they're going. >> democrats managed to mess these moments up, you know, time and time again, they still need
a message. >> look at that. >> he said, we got one? >> what is it? i know it. >> they have this problem again and again. i think they have got, the party has a lot of work to do if they want to. it's amess. >> they think it's a seasaw. if trump goes down, they go up. they think it's automatic. that's why they're planning so careful. >> the question is whether the democrats can rally behind a leader? the party is in disarray. well, exactly, is there someone that can really rally the troops and say, let's do this together? have a unified image to get the party together again after what happened last year? that's the big question going forward. >> we're not even there. >> not even close. >> there are so many fresh memp and sophomore, no one except joe biden. >> i would not overread the results of tonight to say it will mean anything of 2018, remember. >> you are telling people not to stay up tonight? >> no, i'm trying to stay up and
watch all night. >> there is a seat there, it goes down into a dangerous hole in the ground. >> terry mcauliffe won the governorship in 2013 republican in the 2014 rallied. they had a great mid-term year. >> in all the papers across the country, top of the fold of the east coast, i do think it counts, i think the delegate races count a lot. if hillary is able to win, where she run for president? look out? she'll be talking it up in the globe vivian saw him. a pessimist about news value and the polls in new jersey will be closed at the top of the hour that's 8:00 p.m. eastern. we'll get the first look at who will succeed chris christie. that state cannot wait to succeed chris christie t. garden state. the vote keeps pouring in, in virginia, more than 30% in now. nbc says this race still too early to call. this is "hardball," where the action is.
joins us. >> we could tell you democrats are looking at what they're seeing right now, they are feeling very good. let me give you a microcosm of what it is. we talked about northern virginia. look, democrats always do well here in northern virginia. trump got absolutely buried. the challenge for gillespie come until was just don't get buried like trump did. here's a perfect example what was we're seeing in northern virginia. look at this, louden county what you see, the democrat winning by 20. what was the margin in this county last year? it was hillary clinton by 17 over donald trump. this is worse than trump. and by the way, when idaho gillespie ran in this county for the u.s. senate three years ago, he won it. he won by a few hundred votes. tonight he's losing by 20. he's losing it worse than trump. we are seeing this throughout northern virginia in the returns. the gillespie goal was, don't get buried like trump. he may get buried worse than trump. >> whoa. 1960 was a tumultuous year
in american politics. in "playing with fire: the 1968 election" lawrence o'donnell writes the 1960s were a decade like no other, a high-speed kaleidoscope of the civil rights movement, assassinations, bob dylan, the vietnam war, hippies, and american's first anti-war movement. i'm joined by host of "the last word" on msnbc, it's an honor to have you on. bill clinton once said, if you like the '60s you're probably a democrat. if you hated the '60s, you're probably a republican. reflect on that, this is a big-picture book. >> sure, the '60s was probably the single most high-speed culture change, societal change, political change of the 20th century, by far it was. for example, chris, as you know, no guy's hair looked the same, no one at any age between 1960 and 1970. people thought differently. people who were segregationists in 1960 were not by 1970.
and so what you saw was a kind of progress that some people wanted to hold back as they always do with this kind of progress. so the democrats were perceived as the party by the time you get to 1968 who were leading that kind of progress. as you know, chris, about of that, if someone told you they were republican, you didn't know if that person was a liberal or a conservative. >> true. >> if someone said they were a democrat, you didn't know if that person was a liberal or a segregationist. all that started to clarify and get locked in cement in 1968. so that now if you say you're a democrat, everyone thinks they know everything that you think about everything. >> how did we have such exciting prospects for '68 coming in with gene mccarthy in '67, bobby kennedy joined the fight, johnson quitting? how did we end up with two dull candidates like nixon and hubert humphrey? a downer at the end of the year? >> well, it's the assassination
that put us on the -- the bobby kennedy assassination that put us on that inevitable road to hubert hum debris on the democrats' side. what that campaign began with was bravery, was a senator standing up and saying, i'm going to run against the president of my own party. that was something that was unheard of. and it was done by this obscure senator at the time, gene mccarthy. everyone was surprised when he did it. as you know, bobby kennedy thought about running before gene mccarthy announced. and bobby decided against it. then he was never comfortable with his decision, he kept going back and forth. gene mccarthy had some success in new hampshire. and chris, i was in high school. i thought gene mccarthy won new hampshire. and i thought that for decades after the fact. >> that's the way it played. >> because that's the way it played. turns out he came in a very strong second, as you know, bobby kennedy jumps into the race, lyndon johnson says, i quit. as you know, every single possible candidate in 1968, every one of them, was worried about one candidate. and that one candidate was bobby
kennedy. nixon was afraid of him. lbj was afraid of him. gene mccarthy was afraid of him. everyone was. >> let's talk about the results. i voted for humphrey. but i thought i did so because of civil rights and because i thought ed muskie was one hell of a running mate. you probably did too. i thought nixon, tricky dickey, would get us out of the war, he'd say that's the democrat war, i'm getting out. yet he gets in there thanks to henry kissinger, prolongs it an entire term, half the americans killed in that war are killed after nixon comes to office. that was not what the voters voted for, they did not vote for nixon to keep that war going, they voted for him to say, i've got a secret plan to get out of this thing. >> exactly. he had that trump -- trump was saying last year, i'll beat isis, i can do this, the generals can't do it but i can, i know how to do it. he kept, of course that plan a secret because he didn't have one. nixon implied he had a secret plan to end that war, but he got obsessed with the same thing lbj
was obsessed with, and eventually destroyed lbj, and that was, i don't want to be the first president to lose a war. nixon spent all that time trying to come up with an image that looked like he wasn't losing a war, which we did definitely lose. >> yeah, well said. well written, of course. law reference o'donnell, "plaing with fire: the 1968 election and the transformation of american politics." let me finish with this lure that lawrence reflect on this the late 1960s. this is not new to me. ever since live including that time i've felt the pull of a time when when was a zest in the air, an edge of excitement, especially late 1967 and 1968 when i marched to the pentagon, i war marched and watched the good fight as lawrence mentioned between bobby kennedy and eugene mccarthy. my chirp have picked up on this lore of the 1960s, asked me about it, how we lived it. the fun we had. the craziness of some of it. let's be honest, the music and the characters were the best
well come to this you know max special show we're not in the studio as nama but at the german press bowl this year it's taking place for the sixty sixth time and time in the hotel after long hair beside the brandenburg gate in berlin we're standing in the lobby where the first guests are being to arrive some two thousand three hundred resent a tip from the media the world of politics business and culture and bided the host is the front of the press conference the most important journalist association here in germany ever one can expect a great evening with many many highlights this year's model is change of perspective and stefan a behind who is in charge of the catering for the ball has all. also included in
the presentation and also selection of the food but how do you plan such a huge event like the german press poll. this is the man responsible for all the delicacies at the press. stefan ever hard head chef at the hotel ad campaign. although he doesn't prepare all the food himself he dreamed up the creations and combined them to form a theme the concept. and only what's good enough for him is good enough for the guests. the third has to taste good there has to be enough of it has to suit the evening's. need to be impressed by what they say. one hundred cooks put his ideas into practice after six months of preparation everything is completed within three day. stephon ever hard task is to rush back
the hotel adlon is staging the press for the third time for eberhard it's the highlight of the year. and being a good chef isn't enough. creativity is also called for. the best ideas come to you when you're not really trying. to get an idea about what to make of it if it succeeds. spent more time in his office than in the kitchen creating dishes to suit the change of perspective. eighty percent of my job is writing down what we need to do. things you aren't really sure of the other twenty percent is putting the gradients together in the kitchen and sampling the food.
to say it's really really hard to decide what to eat there are fourteen food stalls in all at the bowl with very different layouts and food in huge quantities for example three thousand or he says in addition stephanie behind and his team have prepared eighty kilograms of steaks and one hundred fifty kilograms of fish don't forget the desserts which looks so nice there they are almost too good to eat but not everyone has to line up at the buffet around three hundred guests will be served a proper meal and would dine together with a german president from vita steinmeyer. and the man year or eight is featured on cubes like this one i designed to do a made it about the cube isn't the only thing martin schmidt and stefan came up with they spend nine mom designing the entire look of the german press ball. the twenty seven thousand price polish guessing it's live from switzerland's martin
shmeat and germany's stephan calypso from the invitations to the interior decoration the two design is have created a career in total concept the theme of this is bull is a change of perspective. we try to make it a little abstract and so we address the theme of perspectives in a bold way and executed it in three dimensions. it's always a bit of a balancing act since this is a very traditional event a classic ball but we tried to style it in a kind of modern way to get. me to develop visual concepts and print products for clients in germany under the old. his work for major events such as the swiss film awards for restaurants and hotels. it all began with a german press pool this is the sixteenth year that the graphic and industrial designer has created the invitations he won the bid for the first time in two
a month ahead of time and then we have only a few hours to get everything in a few hours to get everything out the next day looks as if nothing happened. up to seventy employees work on the press pool project they constantly faced with new challenges this year they have to assemble one hundred eighty five menu cubes they're meant to be more than just a list of the dishes. sometimes people are seated at a table together and they don't know each other and then it's always good if they have something to talk about either the flowers or in this case the menu cards which are unconventional go to people have to share one card so there's bound to be a bit of fighting over them. but otherwise of course the design is hope that the ball goes off as smoothly as possible the goal this time is to encourage the guests
have then you leave the three twigs together just like you braid head. on the braid should be about one hundred times as long as the circumference of your head so. it'll be easier to time then you make it so you can be a little tight because it'll stretch and tie up the loose ends thank you sam. then the blossoms can be stuck into the gaps and one of the world's oldest and most popular accessories is ready to wear. an eight hundred forty britain's queen victoria wore a wreath of orange blossoms to her wedding. the flower children of the one nine hundred sixty stuck blossoms in their hair as an expression of peace and freedom. mexican painter frida kahlo made herself a living work of art with lavish floral head dresses.
american singer a lot of del ray has picked up on the tradition she's been wearing for wreaths in her hair ever since her musical breakthrough in two thousand and eleven. now they become something of a trademark and a look many of her fans are copying. at berlin milan and paris fashion weeks two flowers are a favorite catwalk accessory japanese label come to god has made them part of their twenty seven team spring and summer collections even for men's wear. designers are letting flowers make colorful fashion statements for a season anyway. a good party also
needs good dreams of come to the cocktail bar ahead of the crowds it normally gets really busy later on all the guests have dressed up for this evening the men have it relatively simple as at most boards at dixie to is a must and the ladies should wear a floor evening dress and that's what most people do like me for instance but behind the bar the woods a completely different high and what i do makes for me i made a zero race cocktail for you i called the take that sounds really go well let's give it a try oh. well it's really really good but. must be because if anyone is a boat who makes a good cocktail it is definitely on the linen because she is one of the best bartenders in germany.
her cocktails are a treat for all the senses. on a linden is a passionate cocktail mixer. this makes you taste and tasting is great if you do something you really enjoy doing other people's interest and get them enthusiastic well that's a great job to have while. linden started mixing cocktails around a year ago she began her bar job at berlin's hotel on stone plots in april. she prepares classic cocktails and also tries out new ones. it's like trying chocolate for the first time it can be incredible sometimes it's strange and even horrible because you find something you really hate. so you know. i really love playing around with things and working on what you already know to create something new. it's like playing
a huge j's all day ground. and although she's just twenty four years old linda is one of the best she even made it through to this year's finals at world class germany's biggest bartending contest. so which drink is her insider tip. not really a secret the manhattan. to make one you need right whiskey vermouth angostura bitters a slice of orange peel or cocktail cherries. on a linden as a spoonful of bosonic vinegar for all the ingredients into a glass. and ice stir answers. at a slice of orange peel or a. cherry and the manhattan is ready. you can really play around with the basics the moves bases and whiskey you can use another whiskey or a different remove all several kinds and play around with
a bit chocolate or orange bitters it's up to you. on a linden moved to berlin three years ago for a master's program in museum studies she wants to complete the degree but she sees her future as a bartender in nighttime berlin. for me that they're not for a father from time to get off my night time is the time of day where you can relax and let yourself go. light. you can concentrate on other things whether it's pleasure or a time to relax. and. it's different from the rest of everyday life. linden likes to encourage people to try out new things but she isn't out to educate them she says a good host is someone who's willing to listen and create that perfect moment of pleasure. smell something taste something with that
we're talking to someone you appreciate the atmosphere the music the lie saying the whole experience for me the perfect moment is when all your senses are static a charged. then the evening's a real success. and then you can continue exploring the nightlife in the german capital. as well as good caulked ates interesting people and great food you also need the right music for an event like the german press bowl to dish not only the dance was opened with a waltz bob this is not the only music on offer here tonight don your mother leave me mando is all watching all the people responsible for the entertainment. yes you can here and he is one of the world's best of breed boxes and has already won a lot of prizes my mom is great to have am. could you tell me how
well does the parks and go with this event well actually i'm here with some musicians piano player a guitar player a bass player and female singer and we together we perform some hip cover songs and i do the drums and. music production i will definitely join later. you once said that you can. get a lot out of the boxing with just a little means just a little means so i could just show us how the press both sounds like yes the president could be like. that was really really great sounds for me a bit like a brick wall. could you tell our audience how to make sounds like this is very easy you can say the words cat cat and.
then you get. that's also maybe we'll be on stage. so thanks for joining and that was just a little sample. now we were show you how actually works. which . needs no instrument other than his voice to produce these babies but. once you get into it you notice that you can produce various noises with your palate your tongue your lips even with your teeth a bit or humming through your nose. so eventually you try to combine the sound to
be able to do several things at once. then your lips do something different from your voice and you have to be able to keep them separate. and. water began as a musical accompaniment for musicians has not become a not a foam in its own right. but. i think boxing is so great because it allows me to work in theatre and film productions of radio plays i give workshops and do concerts the colorful working world it offers me a simply fantastic it's a dream job. has lived in. district since one thousand nine nine hundred. it was friends who got him interested in boxing. i started out writing rap lyrics in german and spanish then when we were on our way somewhere i realized i needed to
know how to beat box as you want to wrap your lyrics to a beat. then i realized that i like beat boxing more than rapping you know so i stuck with boxing that was eighteen years ago and for the last ten years it's been my profession. since two thousand and three. chlorophyl had been performing. for. me. for to. sing event in a bar. and always thought yeah ok they're nice and cool but they didn't. and then mondo arrived. stuff and with every round i noticed. this is really happening and great fun.
two thousand and fifteen that came second in time. as the world championships. is also a successful solo artist. which . is a master when it comes to. looping is really simple you have this device on record something with a microphone then you look at it which means that repeats itself automatically. you can then add any number of sounds. so for example you can take one person and make them sound like a whole bunch of people born. you know i'm clinging. but . thank. god no mind eleni study classical guitar
musician longs to try out new things. so one of four examples current project says beatboxing took it tom. so. phil and i have been beat boxing together for seventeen years and we thought it be cool if we could combine beat boxing with blank guitar somehow. doesn't worry about running out of creative ideas. in the recent wired about getting older either. so i'm a bit like many many years from now when i'm retired i'll go on stage remove my dangerous and use them as cast the net people will flip out and they'll love it as events. people already flip out at his concerts next year donahoe mandolin he will
also be performing in shows and musical amphitheater productions and he's certain to put in an appearance at the next great boxing championships and hopefully have an extra response to now i'm going to man up with the guests and say goodbye from the top with the most beautiful images from the sea is gala for many people the highlight is the opening talents by the german president on august ninth my of all the first time this year i'm going to but also to now so it's time to say. what he said or joining this really special edition of your next.
we saw at full speed. risk. but always on the move a i. told mobility today and in the future. driving thirty minutes to w o five. beats all about the moments of the night before. it's all about the stories inside. it's all about george chance to discover the world from different perspectives. join us and inspired by distinctive instagram others at g.w. story it's a new topic each week on instagram. what drives the economy.
does the economy drive. made in germany only as has its finger on the pulse. of the market the manager. and told me i spoke to. germany long d.w. . they know like. they know what we say. and soon they'll even know how we feel. well i'm not a real person i'm still just a piece of. scientists around the world are working to measure our emotions. so hopefully i can be a helpful piece assault with. a virtual person as
a therapist or a robotic as a teacher neither would have human empathy what does a machine need to do to create empathy and a medical context what i disclose more information to a person or to a computer in this case. a few days and lots of feelings of the instruments that steer us and whoever can control these feelings has great power over us to bottle algorithms instead of feelings measuring emotion starting december sixteenth on t w . this is the only news life from then egypt launches gastritis in response to
here until anyone wanting to reach vocal in age from the valley had to walk several kilometers cover the distance on horseback or by donkey. in its seclusion the village was able to develop and preserve its unique architectural character. it's not known when people first settled here but the earliest written record dates back to fourteen sixty one. for centuries has stood as a masterpiece of slovak wooden architecture constructed in block four apart from the foundation the houses were erected without the use of a single brick. lime washed in intense colors the facades are striking the original . they go hand in hand with magnificent colors of nature thus the village buildings act like a large mirror to the splendid mountain for. the
steadily declined. many left their homeland to seek work in nearby ozone better org or far off bratislava today just thirty five villages live under the pointed covered roofs most of them are in their seventy's or even older they lead a life steeped in traditions that have grown in vocal an inch of the hundreds of years. along with the decorated round gable grooves in their houses with their crosses the whole mark of a college is the little. bell tower in the middle of the village. only
once has there been on rest here and that was when instead of the howling of the wolves the villages had the sound of gunfire echoing from the mountain peaks. during the slovak national uprising in the second mile war rival forces reach kilcullen edge and some of the houses were burned down later however most of them were rebuilt. the stream in the middle of the village is still the only source of water the houses don't have tap water. in summer that's not a problem but in winter the villages often have to melt the ice. in its own particular way the pace of rural life here remains good to the rhythm of nature the people live from what the fertile soil yields from the flocks of sheep in their
milk and the different varieties of cheese flavored with mountain halves. for. there are only a few places in central europe where nature can on a firm itself in such a virgin beauty a species of plant a found that can otherwise only flourish in protected areas and where the architecture in its dimensions and in the materials available has largely been adapted to natural.
for centuries the people of all colors have built with what was close to hand. this is made them skilled woodworkers the tools and techniques used seem to have remained unchanged for hundreds of years five buildings are constructed from holes longs that are fitted together without joints. and nowhere apart from in this part of slovakia a ruse covered with narrow and extra long shingles slotted together and tongue and groove fashion experience has shown that the untreated timber keeps longer than a lifetime nevertheless the regional traditions of working with wood a still passed on from generation generation to
. the rooms in the house is on just as tiny as the windows looking out from them as a rule the single storey buildings have three rooms from outside you step straight into the good. there are two rooms leading off this entrance area. and a bedroom. there is also an adjacent workroom. used in winter for carving figures and making cheese so the inhabitants already have to leave the building. homes in the village are crammed in spots lee finished wealth involved is to be found outside the doings in the rich and resplendent variety of nature. this beauty
has been shattered for centuries not only by the local inhabitants but also by visitors from all over the world who come to enjoy the a delicate scenery between the high and the low atocha and it's not some open a museum experience in full color but a thriving example of natural unity in which man and animals live in harmony with the landscape. we'll call an edge and upland village that lies in the past at one time this region belongs solely to the wolves man moved in but with such respect that his houses with a gentle wooden architecture seem as if they've only been borrowed from nature for
a while. indeed in a few centuries time perhaps this wolf's place will once again be the sole preserve of the wild hunters and of sit all of the gandhian mountain in the background.
a flight. to gunpowder by dino told me it has laid out millions of us. euro max in sixty minutes on the w. . every journey begins with the first step and every language with the first word published in the. nico is in germany to learn german why not learn it simple online on your mobile and free stuff from d w z learning course nikos basic german made easy.
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ranked highly among the happiest people in the well we thought we'd get a lesson in how to live a more hooghly life. surveys indicate that danes are among the happiest people on earth in fact the un's world happiness report regularly puts denmark at the top of the list. what is it about the danes that makes them such happy people. might be king has written a book about all this and he believes he knows the answer. he has to do with togetherness it has to do with the art of creating a good atmosphere it's about equality it's about saving simple pleasures i think we also see something inherently danish i think we see it as part of our national identity the same way the americans see freedom we think of something as part of
our d.n.a. . the word who get means being comfortable and contented often while enjoying the simpler pleasures of life. here are a few examples. it's having of kabul for show or won't he and some these kids at some and the talk who go a little bit deeper than the killing of a couch and talk. to you can't pull yourself heard is also maybe watching a film or reading a book and brutal isn't. mike beekeeping is the c.e.o. of the happiness research institute in copenhagen he says that the danes unique attitude towards life plays a major role in their sense of wellbeing. we've been curious about why denmark does well in the happiness rankings and we've looked at the political system. and that's
big part of the explanation you know high level of trust your social security and those with health care but that also explains why the other nordic countries do well so we wanted to understand why does denmark do better than than sweden finland iceland and and and norway. spending quality time with family and friends or enjoying homemade cinnamon buns that's. the danes really love christmas time traditional apple tarts are on sale at christmas markets throughout copenhagen. so is brooke or danish mulled wine. particularly amusement park is decked out with a sea of lights mike the king says winter is the peak season for a good. while is practiced throughout the year i think for the winter period it becomes almost a survival strategy it's a way of getting the best out of a time of year which is doc and cold and wet and we're forced into forced. the best
place to experience here is in danish homes the danes have more living space per person than any other european country and they make their surroundings as comfortable as possible. light is important too. there's a reason why we use twice as much candle wax as number two in europe which is australia because we enjoy lighting that is at the low end of the temperature scale so we enjoy warm mortify soft diffused lights to create a nice the atmosphere in a room. but danes also like to have nice things around the house northern europe is known for its design concepts like lamps by pulling an accent and chairs by on a yacob send and corpulent but do these things actually make people happy the notion or the concept of hickeys something that for danes is just a word or describes a a situ. and or
a state of mind more than a design i don't think you can say that it's a sign it's assigned or is. doing something to create but i think it's something that's more ingrained or maybe internalized in our culture a simple walk outside can also be good it doesn't cost anything and makes you feel good he shouldn't be about consumerism you could also use. as the get out of jail card if something is too expensive or if you walk into a restaurant it's too expensive you could say should we find a place that's more in your first or yeah let's find a place that's more so you should be inexpensive because it's about equality and it's about simple precious. danes call that special cozy christmas feeling. and the focus is not on expensive presents it's on being together with family and friends that's the true spirit of christmas and not just in denmark.
during what a lot of is sorts of bring you as well as some the course that might mean a stroll in the park but father says it means a huge adrenaline rush on a man who can't get enough of those bars is a frenchman known as roll of and he designed a unique role a suit that is fitted with thirty two rollers all over the body he can basically roll in any position he likes and since he's mastered the art of rolling he created a suit for goal lighting or skating on the ice. roller man. is trying on some blades. he shoots down the icy track at seventy kilometers per hour like a human bobsled his head just ten centimeters from the ice. he calls
this brand new version of buddy roll in the extreme sport invented buggy ice. the perfect feeling is feeling. when you make mistakes you hear that that the noise is changing when and when everybody's is on the right position it just like. when something's wrong as. i sunfire in see good and i feel some fifty kilometers east of the capital i'm a guy. adrenaline junkies come here to race on skates. or hurtle down the loo jack breakneck speeds. and he is the craziest of them all brawn told from france is full body suit is studded with fourteen ice skate blades a prototype that's only been tried once before. the first session i got which i loved is intercounty you watch and then you see the people wrong direction the
trees. going over you and the sky is wrong direction so so it's the world is changing around you because of the gravity direction. this is. in the original version of his suit as the roller man. he reached speeds up to one hundred twenty kilometers an hour. the thirty two rollers lead him to zip across smooth surfaces in every conceivable position. it may look pretty dangerous but it's meticulously planned out. sometimes i go even by foot to know each corner it's truck it's it's cross world. so i know everything in my head i can visualize in three d. how districts like so it's a question of preparation you don't go just like this. drawing you brando invented
is thirty two wheel roller sued over twenty years ago while studying industrial design. now he's selling his invention so much of it has to be done by hand but the suit costs around six thousand seven hundred euro's. he also warns money with t.v. appearances and advertising even if he makes a living from his invention rondo's says it's not primarily about money. when you wear the suit the first time. your. connection to the world is changing you are not. you're not a normal human everything you touch in touch with the reels it looks more robotic deeply your identity the image you sent to the other people is different. over the years brando is refined to suit more and more modifying it for
a variety of services this is the ski version and he's got his sights set on new goals as well. i think we can go like this is easily fifty six fifty can return more we've good ironies to work on ironies. i would like to work with some multiples in sight like electric motor was my dream is to be faster than the called st even the flat i want that i can produce. the cheaper that's for christmas choose to buy it. there's no doubt that the suit is a real eye catcher. and it may well be the most impressive and dangerous way to speak down. to impressive it certainly is and you won't catch me trying it out in
a hurry let's turn now to focus on two german artists who have a more tranquil passion and that is lighting up forests with their projections and imagery they use an innovative combination of techniques bringing life to the darkest of nights the images they produce of both magical and mesmerizing the also prefer to not digitally manipulate anything in post-production so the key for them is in the preparation and that can take hours in the cold winter nights. glowing shapes in untouched nature surrealistic images from the short film lucid by the german artist's collective. and none of this is done with computer
animation even the images that seem inexplicable are real objects and were actually installed in the surroundings. and fruit trees fun sure put a lot of physical work and creativity into their art. among other things they use luminescent wires and objects to create their illusions. we can use anything that glows it all depends on how you stage it to take things in with the techniques and materials i use range from household items for example the sphere shape as a layer of ikea to projections for example we have one shot with a triangle we cut it out of cardboard and then just object to the colored like. the thumb points you have would have when the. in twenty fourteen the artist
duo shot the short film bioluminescent forest here to all the light effects are projected directly into the setting rather than manipulating the images on a computer. direct my wad and on sure employed and even labrat technology for this called projection mapping parts of the forest are illuminated effects on irregular surfaces and textures are taken into account this requires not only a precise plan but also patient. especially when the illuminated objects are not only three dimensional but also animate. usually we only project light onto inanimate objects but we also wanted to use animals ones that don't move much or that hold still for a while but with a frog we have to film for five hours because it kept jumping away because. for
other projects the light artists bring a bit of nature into the city. for example their new project in paris in twenty fifty. astonished the audience with the projection of a gigantic spider. first they had to build a cardboard model of the building and film the spider inside it then they projected the video onto the inside walls of the building for the illusion to be perfect the dimensions and perspectives had to correspond precisely. when it is with the manoir for us it's important to keep trying out new techniques for example in our next project we might work with fire or with water or whatever. with a wide range of things we don't want to limit our so i'm saying that i think that's what enables us to always have new themes and to be able to convey a feeling. that i hunt will continue to create illusions in the future without image editing using physical
exertion and ingenious ideas. you might have an artist that we have a winter theme running through the show today on the use of force is no exception we met a couple who says for twenty years to find the perfect spots to build their dream home they found it on a peninsula in no way above the arctic circle a shell like home is now their own little private sanctuary where they can go to high but night whenever they so desire. the lignin peninsula lies north of the arctic circle this holiday home is perfectly suited to the cold climate in northern norway where snow covers the ground for roughly half the year it was built by hot bod kramer and tova felt hello welcome to my cabin come inside.
the heart of the building is the living area with its floor to ceiling windows which afford a stunning view of the water this two hundred square metre bungalow is hot board kramer's and over felts weekend retreat the retiree's spend as much time here as possible i am and. most assignments and looking at the see. we are relaxing more we can. all read that book we can. be a more outside. during the winter months the sun doesn't rise for too long months to compensate for the lack of daylight that has decorated the house and a vibrant colors and fitted it with cozy carpets and blankets a geothermal heat pump and a wood fire ensure cozy temperatures. i can stand. near the wall from the
fireplace. it's very giving me i love that and it's. the house also boasts a sauna that can be used all year round. i go in this house and i every saturday where we are here we take this out with the family to it our daughter. did and they also. i may have i yeah we warm us here. have a very coffee the bedrooms face the heath behind the cabin till the felt and her husband searched for twenty years until they found this spot to build their cabin construction began in two thousand and seven their idea was to build a cabin that harmonizes with its environment yet also provides a warm haven amid these harsh climbs. i like the
structure their feeling the warmth feeling it gives they want to. be like i said. you see it oh i own all there. on the outside. the cabins wooden structure was neatly fitted into the few words rock formation its walls are lined with the who wind currents. architects norris jenison designed the cabin and chose materials like wood which will withstand the harsh arctic climate for many years. it's untreated. grayish look but still it's a warm work on the outside cedar which of course in this climate also is. very well suited. and turns your silver grey in time.
twelve a fountain hubbard kramer spent plenty of time outside if the weather permits it sometimes they can observe reindeer or winds at sea and in the winter they sometimes see the northern lights this is why they love being so far north. it's the better and not the temperate or. they are their surroundings we have here that i haven't seen. i've read. photo of a fountain hawk park kramer spending time in their cozy cabin north of the arctic circle his goodness no matter what the season. now have you heard of. before it's one of australia's most popular deserts especially in the winter it's basically like a pancake being chopped up and then it's served with sugar and cherry sauce on the
side decadent really is but a perfect treat after violence like. the pit called lazio is austria's high a ski resort here at the ski season lasts until may three restaurants feed hungry winter sports enthusiasts one atop the glazier that's almost three thousand five hundred metres above sea level and the others at an elevation of almost three thousand meters. after a day on the slopes ski is can enjoy delicious helping of. the sweet days just as much a part of austrian identity as the alps. a wonderful just like my grandma used to make it. nearby you'll find austria's highest patisserie stephany's than tele is hard at work here paying pastries and the smart . you put it everything is produced up here in the bakery
we make all the desserts for the two restaurants fish bits and customers and we also supply cafe three for forty with fresh cake instituted. every morning that is sent up by cable car to austria's highest coffeehouse cafe three for forty it lies six hundred meters about the bakery aside from the fantastic there's another treat the visit has the so-called place yes no cake. course on the coconut fine uppal very fluffy very light when you if you get it fresh it's quite magical and certainly recommended would put it in feet. but operating a sky high bakery has its pitfalls. about three thousand four hundred forty metres the boiling point is different so if we know that the weather will change will produce the biscuit bases a day early because otherwise they might not be so fluffy and could fall apart
inside us and if so shouldn't. milk. eggs. sugar that's all. kinds of smarm doesn't require any delicate preparation just mix the milk in flour then separate the eggs and beat the egg white with sugar until stick. it's coming out now that it's nice and foamy will do the famous test. it should be like this. add the rest of the act to the mixture. then to give it its airy consistency gently fold in the egg whites nearly all run. on the pits todd glacier we don't use mineral water and. we prefer egg whites. then the kaiser stays moist
longer the type to feed not. knowing i. used the shavings i don't. know what you come on you know now we can add some raisins on the glacier we put in raisins but you can leave them out if you wish. we sell up to four tons of man in the winter season that's one hundred fifty to two hundred portions a day. should be baked for five minutes on each side and then it's ready. stephany's i'm too low also supplies the restaurants with viennese apple strudel and clips. because the smog is said to get its name from a pancake that went wrong. the austrian emperor of france use if loved. but
when a pancake fell apart during cooking it was scrambled up and served. them probably loved it and empress scrambled all the smart phones. now it's just missing the icing sugar on top and up here we serve our kaiser man with apple sauce on going on very. this in just a favorite if you're old it's one of austria's most popular there's a. sweet treat to end the show on things are changing in everyone i hope this season hasn't made you feel too cold wherever you're watching from i'll see you again say you know your max and until then on social media five an hour.
ages to the quintessential. mosty piece of p.t. and what they tell us about art and child. fifteen minutes d.w. . they live to surf. danger lurks in the water we were there on your own surfing waist and polluted water not only being the witness but the time being victims i mean was it you troubles or gastric troubles. basically this is sort of the last moment in backup of the nation full i was once in a shell. go up human sewage completely untreated and stone walls are coming out of these rights consider it out and out since i want to call most most crime yet so. he's going to have to go somewhere every day and sees more and more
rubbish each tiny of us to see gives me everything i suppose waves the wind i have to give something back i feel obliged and didn't ok with the swimmers into many of the worst. point waves surfers fighting against unseen pollution in the seas starting in january seventh on w. d c org five keys to safer food. clean to prevent contamination. draw and cook foods to avoid cross contamination. thoroughly to kill microorganisms.
explains himself under bipartisan questioning. although we should note he was not under oath. still, there's one potential witness we won't be hearing from. to this date jared kushner had not agreed to meet with the senate judiciary committee and the panel now admits it's given up trying to get him. let's get to our team of reporters. first we have breaking news isolate the justice department. they say they the found missing texts between two fbi officials. their disappearance has been labored a conspiracy by some republicans. joining us is pete williams in our washington newsroom. pete, are were they recovered? >> the inspector general says it was using a forensic technique. doesn't explain anything more than that. these are text messages that were sent between lisa page and peter strzok who were two people that had been working on the mueller investigation. and they were sent between december of last year and then
there's a lot of interest in here. perhaps don junior made a mistake that could eventually become an important part of the story line. it's impossible to know at this stage what sort of information we maybe able to glean from this that's different from where we already are. but, again, i think there was some pressure from the witnesses themselves for this to come out. >> let's go back to when we first learned about this meeting. it exploded in the press. it was one of those things that if you're asking if there was any attempts or work between the trump campaign and anyone in russia to try to influence the election, you could point out this meeting and say, look, don junior got on simplicity note from somebody in russia or someone purporting to have someone from russia with russian information, russian dirt on hillary clinton coming from a different foreign power, not an ally of the u.s. and don junior saying, i love it, especially for later in the summer. later in the summer we got all
those wikileaks and that's when those started to really hit and donald trump seized on them and rallied his base against hillary clinton. this was a big deal when we found out about it. to get these transcripts, betsy, what could we possibly learn that we don't already know from this meeting? >> it's possible we'll learn more details about the way the meeting got set up, about the way don junior was connected to some of these russian and russian-linked characters who initially pitched him on having the idea of the meeting. i certainly would expect we'll be able to learn how the meeting itself went and if there was any additional follow-up. that said, one important thing to keep in mind is that the investigation has been really unusual. while the senate intel and the house intel committees have stayed largely focused on the russia question, the senate judiciary committee actually has
taken a weirdly different lens, one staffer for chuck grassley who shares that committee told me several months ago their investigation was hardly even focused on russia at all and instead was looking at potential wrong doing by the fbi or the justice department as part of the committee's routine oversight. additionally, some republicans on the senate judiciary committee concluded based on their investigation that christopher steele who wrote that controversial -- they referred it for prosecution. one thing i'll be interested in seeing when this transcript comes out is to what extent are republicans and democrats remotely on the same page as far as what questions they really had for don junior. >> it'll be interesting to see what democrats ask him and what republicans ask him. what this the point of these hearings right now? we have robert mueller looking into this. the congressional hearings seem
to devolve in bickering. why do this? >> katy in theory they have different missions than robert mueller. this is not a criminal prosecution type of situation. instead these committees are attempting to look into what russian efforts to influence american elections. and i think one of the frustrations for some of the more middle of the road members of congress and members who've been russia hawks for many years is that has gotten very lost and i think it's been very hard to get members to focus. senator marco rubio, to his credit, was one of the only republicans who, during the 2016 campaign, went out and said, hey, stop crowing about the fact that hillary clinton is in the
cross hairs on this right now. remember that someday down the line it could be republicans. it's not as though russians are necessarily partisan. they have an agenda that's focused on what russia is trying to achieve and one day that be to our detriment. and we know his campaign at one point, one of his senate campaigns was the focus of some of these efforts. and so he sits on the senate intelligence committee. i think that's still what these committees are trying to accomplish. achieving that has become harder and harder. >> ladies, thank you very much. president trump says he's looking forward to talking with robert mueller under oath, but a new op-ed in the "new york times" is looking how statements the president and his campaign officials have made to the media were later proven false. ryan goodman joins us to help us see through the fog in the mueller/russia probe. we have a lot of strands that come out on a day-to-day basis,
incremental. it gets hard to remember what happened when and where the truth is. >> right. i think one of the difficulties is actually trying to break through fog and see not just the moments in which trump campaign officials lied to the media, which i think we well understand, but also when they lied to federal officials because that's when they were getting themselves into legal jeopardy. if you look at the count, it's actually six trump campaign officials, five are clearly senior officials who seem to have lied to either fbi or congress, not including paul manafort and rick gates. big question then is, why were they all lying? was it a joint agreement or at a understanding? >> you served on the special counsel to the general counsel at the department of defense when you have these conflicting
statements, what does that mean for the mueller probe? how does that play into their investigation? >> so one thing that's noticeable about the mueller probe is that all four of the either guilty pleas include false statements. you can lie to the media, and it's not a crime, but you lie to one of those federal officials or bodies, and it's a crime. the the big question is mueller is about to interview the president probably, obstruction of justice i think is on everybody's mind. >> yesterday when donald trump was talking to reporters, he was asked about obstruction and whether or not he's done so in regards to the russia investigation. he said no, no, no obstruction and he is fighting back. fighting back, what does that mean? >> it's difficult to know what it means. sounds like in a certain sense he is recklessly admitting to
some of the facts because he's saying what i did is fought back. some people would call that obstruction. he's addressing something i did, do some people are going to classify that as obstruction, they should. if i was his counsel that's the last thing i would want him to say. >> what has piqued your interest? >> not just focusing on the single players but i why did they all do it. if they did it, it's a big question because it means not just people who already lied to federal officials but anyone who encouraged them to do so which could lead all the way up to the president. that was the downfall for the nixon white house where in the white house nixon is encouraging associates to commit perjury. if there's anything like that going on within a senior part of the trump campaign, i think that would be a bombshell.
>> ryan goodman, thank you very much for joining us. turning a text into a talking point. we'll see how the president, lawmakers and conservative media allies are questioning the fbi ice credibility, but to what end? was really easy. easy. that'd be nice. phone: for help with chairs, say "chair." phone: for help with bookcases, say "bookcase." bookcase. i thought this was the dresser? isn't that the bed? phone: i'm sorry, i didn't understand. phone: for help with chairs, say "chair." does this mean we're not going out? book-case. see how easy renters insurance can be at geico.com.
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starting to crumble. they seized on a text exchange between peter strzok and lisa page referring to a secret society. lawmakers had claimed it was proof off the law enforcement agency's anti-trump bias. now at least one of them admits it may have been just a joke. here's senator ron johnson talking with nbc news moments ago. >> after reading those transcripts of the text messages, do you think it was made as a joke? >> it's entirely possible. we'll see what the next text -- >> do you owe an apology, sir? >> republicans were also up in arms about the fbi failing to retain five months of additional text messages between the two officials. some insisted that too was a conspiracy to hide the former lovers' unflattering exchanges. now we learn that was only a technical glitch and the text messages have been recovered. enter devin nunes having a
claim. fisa helped expose conversations with the russia ambassador. releasing the memo would be reckless, he says. the top democrat on the house intel committee slammed nunes and his actions earlier. >> he is attempt to go tar the entire intelligence community, fbi bob mueller investigation in order to once again protect the president. it's a terrible disservice as well as a terrible distraction. >> joining me is michael caputo. good to see you. >> hey, katy, how are you doing? >> what do you think of this secret society that ron johnson raised only to later admit it was probably a joke? >> i don't know. i think in text messages between a mistress is and her boyfriend, what they're trying to hide from their spouses can go into all
kinds of hyperboly. what it is and which comment is a joke? i don't know. but i can tell you this. when i heard that these text messages were missing, i was very excited because it gave me an opportunity to tell investigators that all my texts and e-mails are available except for those that went out between june 16th, 2015 and january 20th, 2017, because my dog ate those. >> they found those text messages, so that's a bit of a moot issue? >> i found mine too. my dog threw them up, which is probably what happened at the fbi too. >> don't you feel like republicans in order to take apart the fbi right now are really grasping for straws? >> i don't know. i look at some of the texts between those two people. >> two people who are having an
affair talking to each other in private. i mean, no one's saying any fbi investigators are not allowed to have opinions about politics. their opinions just can't color what they do. if there's evidence the opinions color what they do, then that is a real problem. >> and that's the evidence we're looking for. >> robert mueller took them off the investigation, so they're not even there any longer. so are you saying -- as a donald trump supporter, are you saying that anybody who doesn't support the president or think negatively of him or might say something to somebody in a personal conversation that is not flattering of the president that they can't be fair? >> i wouldn't say that. i think people have a right to their own opinions in politics. but people at the head of these investigations, at the deputy level, they have to be chosen very carefully. as you know, as an attorney, you can donate in america to the campaign of a judge. so the legal profession doesn't have the concerns of hiring
someone who donated to a campaign of an opponent of the person you're investigating. but katy some of this stuff that's going on, it's really concerning to me. i'm trying to keep an open mind. i've known fbi agents and i've worked with them throughout my career. i'm concerned because it turns out it might have been redundant if donald trump turned russia. we're turning to russia ourselves. >> who are you calling the going kgb, michael? >> the people who deserve to be exposed. >> people in the fbi are actually part of the kgb? >> come on. i was being facetious, as you know. it's funny how the jokes told between these two lovers are hilarious you to at msnbc. >> but they were private messages to each other.
you are on national television and you are saying people in the fbi are act like the kgb. some republicans are loyal to donald trump, the president himself, and a lot of folks outside who are coming on tv to defend the president, instead of defending him on merits, you're saying the fbi is corrupt and the fbi is working in this conspiracy to take down the president. members of the fbi are acting more like the kgb. i mean, that is radical thing to say on national television? >> absolutely, it was a joke which i was hoping you laughed at like the fbi texts. at the same time i'm telling you you what's going on is very concerning. and i believe we need to investigate this completely and fully. i believe they should release the memo that was written by the majority at the house intelligence committee and see where those apples fall. we should investigate what's
going on. there should be a special counsel to look into them as well. the criticism of the special counsel you're hearing today, and the special counsel investigation of the bush white house, this is politics as your back, katy. and wringing your hands over this is a bit over the top. >> politics as usual. seems kind of sad. michael caputo, thank you. next, trump took his america first message overseas. how is it sitting with world leaders? we're at davos where he met with israel prime minister benjamin netanyahu. >> come say hello to our voters. >> you're cnn. >> i'm with msnbc now. thanks for watching. good to see you, sir. needles.
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which ultimately is very important. number one i don't like talking about because, frankly, nobody should be talking about it. it should be based on the strength of the country. we are doing so well. our country is becoming so economically again and strong in other ways too, by the way, that the dollar is going to get stronger and stronger. and ultimately i want to see a strong dollar. >> at this hour the president is at dinner with european business leaders. but earlier he met with british prime minister theresa may and benjamin netanyahu, touting his relationship with both leaders. but theti"thetime" magazine cov. ali, donald trump, his cabinet is there, so is a large portion of congressional leaders including house majority leader
kevin mccarthy. what's america getting out of this big footprint out in davos? >> reporter: two things. there's some confusion coming up. the president is saying he wants a strong dollar. steve mnuchin did say otherwise. the bottom line is he did say otherwise. the president's right. it's very nontraditional for treasury secretaries to even talk about the dollar. the dollar's gone down as a result of mnuchin's comments. but fundamentally, kevin mccarthy and the other congressional leaders, bob corker, they came early and they've been having a ton of meetings. i can't verify what they say is going on in those meetings, but as i suspected, the idea the president was going to harsh on world leaders was probably going to be softened a lot and it does seem in the meetings the president and rosary having with world and business leaders, may be a friendlier tone.
>> we are allies. a lot of american tax dollars go to defend on their missile defense. we should have a fair trade limit. and i think allies can look at that. i sat in a meeting today with all these foreign leaders and i heard prime minister of other countries stand up and say, you know what, as nato, we need to pay more of our fair share that, america's been carrying us for too long. that to me is a positive. some of that's breaking through. it's not like they're going to go alone. it's made a stronger bond with them now. >> reporter: i don't know. i wasn't in those meetings and i don't know everybody's saying that. but i think world leaders are being nicer and america is being more mellow. >> what do you think that is, ali? >> reporter: i think it's the way it goes around here. there's nothing but flags here. this is all about and unity
kumbaya. you can't come to somebody's party and kick the punchbowl over. i think president trump had to say eight talk tough and it's america first. when you get down to brass tacks, this is how you are. not as much tough talk as everybody is prepared for. >> i have richard hoss on my other monitor laughing at your kick the punchbowl comments. joining us is richard haass. i presume ali made you laugh there. you got a new article out in ti"time" entitled what the glob elite can learn from donald trump. you're also the author of a world in disarray. now in paper back. richard, tell me, what can the
world learn from donald trump? >> i think the most important thing is there are a lot of people who are insecure. they don't see globalization as good and see it as threatening. their jobs are disappearing and they fear that they will. so there's real concern about the president and the future. the davos crowd is 1% of the 1% in many cases, and i think what donald trump can bring to them is the sense that, hey, for a lot of people whether it's right or wrong, they feel that the world is not working for them. >> what about the president himself? what can he take away from a meeting like this? he had been influenced by these anti-globalists in his administration, steve bannon now is gone, though. probably horrified at donald trump going to davos. in your article you write trump needs to understand globalization is many dimensions, not a choice, but a reality. the u.s. can at a significant cost, close its borders to
people and trade, but it cannot wall off the country from computer viruses or greenhouse gases and the effects of climate change. >> i think two things. i'm hoping he hears positive things about immigration and trade. mr. trump has repeatedly scapegoated both of them, immigration and trade for job loss and other problems in the country. for the most part it's not true. the real threat is new technologies, artificial intelligence, robotics and the rest. maybe he will understand that he needs to focus on that. that's the real train coming down the track against the united states worker and the economy. and i think secondly, we can't be a giant gated community. we live in this world, like it or not, and we're going to have affected by terrorists or north korean missiles or climate change. united states can't solve these problems unilaterally. it's got to partner with others.
that's beginning of a serious conversation. >> he said he would be open to potentially joining tpp under better conditions, under better negotiation conditions for the u.s. what do you think? is it a good idea for the u.s. to join tpp or is it a better idea for the u.s. to try to work around it? >> it's not even a close one. of course it's better for us to join it. we want to race to the top, not a race to the bottom in terms of trade. we don't want to leave asia for china to pick on smaller, weaker neighbors. i'm not going to sit here and say tpp is perfect, but it does represent an improvement. if mr. trump would say i'll join if we address other issues. china is not a member of it. but pressure to transfer technology or other such issues or government subsidies, i don't think we should be against if you would tpp 2.0. but we have to get inside the
tent. and the idea of staying outside tpp or leaving a number of tnaf steps. >> news out of davos was the president talking about the palestinians saying they don't sit down and try to negotiate peace, the u.s. was going to cut funding. >> again, bad idea. we didn't help the prospects of negotiating by the unilateral declaration of jestrusalem as t capital. we ought to have given something for the palestinians if we were going to do it. so right now we have to really approve to the palestinians that we're prepared to be fair minded and a legitimate negotiator. and i think the pressure is as much on us to cut off aid, that has a humanitarian penalty. if we cut off aid, there will be more palestinian moderates. we have to start playing the
which he is game several moves ahead. >> richard haass, a man who never kicked over a punchbowl at a party. one day he's in, and one day he's out. where does the president stand right now on daca, for instance? we're live on capitol hill where talks are toufrts reach a deal to protect d.r.e.a.m.ers. if yor crohn's symptoms are holding you back, and your current treatment hasn't worked well enough, it may be time for a change.
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the republicans than for the democrats. >> do you want citizenship for d.r.e.a.m.ers? >> we're going to morph into it. it's going to happen. >> what does that mean, morph into it? >> over a period of 10 to 12 years. somebody does a great job, they've worked hard, it gives incentive to do a great job. >> yesterday the commander in chief did about 180 on the future of the d.r.e.a.m.ers. days after rejecting a bipartisan plan, he said he would be open for a path to citizenship for them. if white house is expected to roll out a new immigration framework on monday. a group of bipartisan lawmakers met on the hill today. republican senator marco rubio updated reporters on their efforts to reach a bipartisan deal on immigration reform. >> the starting point that deals with daca and the border, and then we're going to have a debate about if you add citizenship, what do you need to put with that. if you want to lower the backlog on immigration, what do you add
to that. there's a strong consensus to ensure a legal status for people on daca now and scour our border and enforce immigration laws. >> joining us is leigh ann caldwell. you're wearing the same glasses as casey today. let's get to the news. this bipartisan meeting, who was in it and what else do we know about it? >> katy, there was about two dozen members today at the meeting. what they talked about was what they could potentially come to an agreement on as far as immigration is concerned. these aren't necessarily the people who are going to be leading the talks coming up with what a bill will definitely look like, but these are the people who are critical to get anything through the senate. this is a massive group of people. a quarter of the senate, sometimes even more who shows up to these meetings, if the gnat
really wants to pass a daca bill with the support of 70 members, they're going to need the consensus of a lot of people. senator marco rubio came out of that meeting as others did, and they said the path forward might be something really narrow to start with. and then let the senate work its will. and then it can go from there. they say it's a lot easier to add to a bill through amendments rather than put forward a big, massive bill and then try to strip it down. there's still a lot of talks right now. people are waiting to see what president donald trump says in his proposal, which is supposed to come out monday. and until then, these talks are going to continue. but what donald trump says could change a lot, as we know up here. >> no doubt about that. i can't help but ask this question. the senate might come up with a bipartisan solution, but what does that mean if the house won't even take up a debate on
the floor? >> the house is the big question mark here. the house is where legislation goes to die. it's happened multiple times before. as the house moves closer to the midterms, it's going to be even more difficult for house speaker paul ryan to bring up any immigration legislation. i know kevin mccarthy was on our air earlier and he refused to say if the speaker would bring up legislation without a majority of republicans, if he could only get a majority of democrats. that's not something that republicans want. that's probably not something that the president is going to want. so the house is definitely the factor here. i am pretty confident that the senate will be able to pass something. what it's going to look like, i don't know. but when it goes to the house, it's just all bets are off, katy. >> john kelly didn't go to davos in order to work on immigration.
his meetings with lawmakers, what do we know about them? >> we don't know a lot yet. we do know he's been meeting with lawmakers for the past week and a half. he met with a congressional hispanic caucus and is part of this leadership meetings. he's making the rounds on capitol hill. he knows he's become one of the key players in the administration on this issue. he's the former department of homeland security secretary. so he knows this issue, but he's also conservative on this issue. so there's a lot of republicans who are skeptical -- democrats who are skeptical of his role here, katy. >> leigh ann caldwell, thank you very much. >> thank you. donald trump says he'll talk to robert mueller under oath, so when will the special counsel sit down with the commander in chief? the former chief of staff to james comey, chuck rosenberg joins me next. just like some people like pre-shaken sodas. having their seat kicked on an airplane. being rammed by a shopping cart.
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may cause low blood sugar. common side effects are nausea, diarrhea, vomiting, decreased appetite, indigestion, and constipation. side effects can lead to dehydration, which may cause kidney problems. change the course of your treatment. ask your doctor about victoza®. we know robert mueller wants to talk to president trump. but does president trump want to talk to robert mueller? well, depends on when you ask. >> would you be willing to speak under oath to give your version -- >> 100%. >> if mueller muffler wanted to speak with you -- >> i'd be glad to.
>> we'll see what happens. certainly i'll see what happens. when they have no collusion and nobody's found any collusion at any level, it seems unlikely you would have an interview. >> are you going to talk to mueller? >> i'm forward to it actually. >> to reach a higher standard, you would do it under oath? >> oh, i would do it under oath, absolutely. >> the president added yesterday that the special counsel interview could take place in the next two to three weeks. as quickly as the president made those comments, white house counsel to donald trump, ty cobb, walked them back, at least a bit. he told nbc news the president was speaking to reporters hurriedly before leaving for davos. in those remarks the president expressed his complete cooperation with mueller. the terms are still being negotiated by mr. trump's personal lawyers. chuck rosenberg served as the chief of staff to fbi director james comey and is an msnbc contributor. chuck, thank you very much for being here. >> pleasure. >> the president yesterday when he was talking about no obstruction, he said something
very specific and i want to play that sound bite and get your reaction on the other side. >> everybody says no collusion. there's no collusion. now they're saying, oh, well, did he fight back, fight back? >> fight back? >> you fight back. oh, it's obstruction. >> first of all, everybody is not saying no collusion. most lawmakers are saying they're still looking to see if there was any collusion. that's certainly what robert mueller is looking into. secondly, donald trump saying fighting back, fighting back was obstruction. i'm still trying to figure out what exactly he means by that. is it asking mccabe who he voted for? is it firing james comey? >> well, it seems rhetorical, katy. look, you're welcome to make legal arguments, you're welcome to make factual arguments, but obstruction of justice is quite different. it's neither of those things. it's attempting to impede and obstruct an investigation. and so if you fired comey, for instance, because of the, quote
unquote, russia thing, that could be obstruction of justice. >> donald trump has done a number of depositions in his life. we all know this. he's been in a lot of lawsuits. there was one that happened during the campaign where an attorney was talking to him about the trump university lawsuit and they pressed him on this. they said a claim he made to me actually, i was a reporter a month earlier, that he had the world's greatest memory. trump responded i had a good memo memory. the reporter responds with the best memory in the world and he said it to me. trump answered i don't remember saying that. as good as my memory is, i don't remember that but i have a good memory. in that deposition he said i don't remember 35 times during the testimony. does that sort of thing fly with the special counsel? >> well, look, there are innocent times when you don't remember something. it happens to all of us. but the special counsel is going to have lots and lots of stuff
with him. he's going to have documents, he's going to have e-mails, he's going to have the testimony of other people. and so i don't remember might work a couple of times. there's always times we don't remember stuff, katy. but it's not going to work over and over again. at a certain point if all you say is i don't remember, it looks like you're trying to hide something. >> what's the difference between a deposition in a civil trial and facing robert mueller? >> well, great question. so important distinction. depositions are for civil matters, right. you run over my foot with your car in a parking lot and i sue you and we depose a whole bunch of people. there are no depositions by and large in criminal cases. these are interviews. it's either done in a conference room by mueller and his agents and prosecutors, or it will be done in a grand jury under oath in front of members of the grand jury. so if it's the latter, if it's in a grand jury, there's no lawyer there to help mr. trump.
if it's in an interview, he could have his lawyers with him. but the whole thing is going to be run by the investigators and the prosecutors. they're very, very different environments. >> chuck rosenberg, chuck, thank you very much. >> pleasure. >> coming up right after the break, we've got one more thing. so that's the idea. what do you think? i don't like it. oh. nuh uh. yeah. ahhhhh. mm-mm. oh. yeah. ah. agh. d-d-d... no. hmmm. uh... huh. yeah. uh... huh. in business, there are a lot of ways to say no.
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win, and we will not live in fear. >> one more thing before we go. arizona mom jovanna was shot in the head during the shooting on the vegas strip that killed 58 people in october. today after months of therapy and rehab, she's finally going home. but also today just a few miles from the shooting that forced her to relearn how to walk, talk and eat on her own again, the nra is holding day three of the world's largest firearms industry expo. there has been virtually no action on capitol hill regarding gun control despite the 1,500 mass shootings we've seen since the sandy hook massacre in 2012. this week we saw the nation's 11th high school shooting this year, the second just this week. remember, it's only january. monday a 15-year-old girl was shot and killed in texas. her teenage classmate is accused of the crime. tuesday, it happened again at a
high school in kentucky. two 15-year-olds murdered, 18 others hurt. this "l.a. times" headline sums it up. another school shooting, ho-hum says america. what is going on here? is this okay now? are we as americans now okay with kids killing kids? is it even a question that's worth asking anymore? after all, it seems like we've gotten our answer. we've gotten it 1,500 times since sandy hook. that will wrap things up for me this hour. chris jansing picks it up right now. chris. >> i've been covering them since columbine, so let's even back it up to there, shall we? kids killing kids, thank you so much. we are following a very busy day of news from the economic forum in davos, switzerland, as well as washington where the halls of congress are buzzing with the talk of robert mueller's russia investigation as well as possible progress toward an immigration deal.