mean it. car stereo blowout blitz. communications on sale now! crazy eddie prices are insane! >> like i said, his prices are insane! starting in 1975 and running through the end of the 1980s, there were more than 7,000 of these various, deliberately manic screaming crazy eddie ads. they all end with that tag line, his prices are insane! the guy who actually appears in those ads was not crazy. he was an actor. there was a real crazy eddie. there was a real crazy guy named eddie running the company. his name was eddie antar. i think it's fair to call him crazy not just because of the name of his business but because eddie and his cousin cooked the books at that company really terribly. they ripped off something like
$100 million in cash out of that company. crazy eddie, according to court documents, he would tape wads of cash all over his body and then fly overseas and stash the money he was stealing from the company in cash in all sorts of various foreign hidey holes. they were ripping tens of millions of dollars out of the crazy eddie stores for years. in the end, the worst thing about it for crazy eddie himself, when they got found out, when their scheme was uncovered, when they got caught, eddie fled the country but his cousin did not. the cousin with whom he had been stealing all the money, the cousin stayed behind and the cousin ultimately went state evidence against crazy eddie. he also found time to do this crazy eddie's crazy cousin interview on cnbc. >> it was one of the most
successful electronic chains in the u.s. >> blowout prices are insane! >> crazy eddie, controlled by the brash eddie antar dominated the market. but there was a dark side. >> built on deceit. >> behind the scenes, eddie's cousin sam antar was cooking the books. >> what i did was pure evil. i'm probably going to fry in hell for many years before i get upstairs. >> they scammed shareholders more than $100 million. eddie fled with the cash. sam turn's state's witness. >> you turned around and turned on your family? >> yes. i put them all in jail. >> he did put them all in jail, including crazy eddie himself, his cousin, who got seven years in the pokie. now, speaking of pokey, stick a pen in that for a second. you know how donald trump's sister is a federal judge -- it
hasn't really been a big point of discussion in this campaign but his sister is a federal judge. it came up a little bit during the republican primaries. he asked who he wanted to put on the supreme court and the first name suggested was his sister and then we all had to check to see if he was joking. he said he was joking. but his older sister is a well-regarded moderate federal judge on the circuit court of appeals. donald trump's sister, the federal judge, was married to the man who was the lawyer for crazy eddie all through the crazy, crazy eddie scandal. his name was john barry. he did white collar defense and corporate litigation. he's passed away now. but he was crazy eddie's lawyer through the wads of cash, taped to crazy eddie's body and the cousin narking them out and the whole thing. crazy eddie's lawyer was married to donald trump's sister. crazy eddie's lawyer was also donald trump's personal lawyer
for years. and on top of all of that, john barry was also the lawyer that is freaking out the party right now. new jersey is one of those states that holds its statewide elections in off years. their race was not in 2012. it was in 2013. the next one will be in the fall of 2017. they hold their statewide elections in odd number of years. new jersey has been that way for a long time. virginia is the same way. there aren't many states who do that. one of the consequences of being an off-year election state is when they elect their governor in these weird, odd numbered years, they don't have a lot of competition for attention, right? there are not a lot of big ticket races going on to compete for everybody's dollars and the national parties to get involved. just by virtue of the weird schedule. they can get a bunch of national
attention and that's what happened in 1981. so in context, that was a year after ronald reagan was elected to the presidency in 1980. the year after that, november of 1981, new jersey had its governor's race. and in that governor's race in 1981, the national republican party newly energized from that huge win with reagan and how they took the seats in congress and the senate, republican party decided they had another shot to go for another big race and they decided to basically flood the zone in that new jersey governor's race in 1981. the republicans flew in national political operatives. they launched this very aggressive scheme where they challenged the registration of thousands of new jersey voters who turned up to the polls in newark, camden and trenton. and in about 75 minority heavy precincts across new jersey that year in that race, they put up these four-foot tall warning signs. when i first saw images of these
signs online and in old newspaper articles and stuff, i thought these were like flyers and the piece of a paper and put them on telephone poles or something. they were sandwich board posters, four-foot tall signs that they put outside of polling areas saying, warning, this area is being patrolled by the national ballot security task force. it's a crime to violate election laws. and they were not bluffing. the rnc did actually invent something called a ballot security task force and put these guys on patrol in minority heavy precincts. it's interesting. nobody had advanced warning that they are coming. they just showed up on election day and nobody knew to expect it. they had off-duty police officers and sheriff deputies carrying walkie-talkies wearing
ballot security task force arm bands. many were openly carrying guns and they stalked around polling places in minority-heavy districts while they demanded that election workers strike these people off the election rolls. >> several of these signs were reported at polling places at newark's fourth ward. poll watchers, some of them off-duty policemen wearing guns and arm bands were also near the polls as part of the task force set up by the republican and national state committees to guard against fraud but democrats charge it was a scare campaign to intimidate voters primarily in minority neighborhoods. >> yeah, you think? who knows how many people were blocked or intimidated from voting in that election in new jersey in 1981. but as voter suppression schemes go, this one clearly worked. both parties would claim that it definitely worked. there were 3 million votes cast
in that governor's race. it was decided by less than 1800 votes. and the republican won. and then the democrats sued. the democrats sued the republican party over this ballot security task force stunt. and you know who the republicans used as their lawyer to defend them in that case? donald trump's brother-in-law. the crazy eddie guy who was married to donald trump's sister. he was the lawyer for the republican party in that case in new jersey. and he got creamed in court. i mean, the damage was already done in terms of that governor's race. the republicans won that election by this many votes, right? and the democrats weren't going to be able to get that election back. but what the democrats did get was something called a consent decree, which bans the republican national committee from doing this kind of thing again, from doing anything like this, that problem hib bits them from being involved in any poll-watching shenanigans that
targets minority voters. and now today, in 2016, now the snake starts eating its own tail. in 2016, it's not donald trump's brother-in-law, it's now donald trump who is losing that exact case all over again for the republican national committee. >> go down to certain areas and watch and study and make sure other people don't come in and vote five times. >> so important that you watch other communities because we don't want this election stolen from us. >> so go and vote and then go check out areas because a lot of bad things happen. >> when i say watch, you know what i'm talking about, right? you know what i'm talking about. >> take a look at philadelphia, what's been going on. take a look at chicago, take a look at st. louis. >> every time he says that, you can go ahead and picture reince priebus hiding under a desk, because that's a really
dangerous path for the republican party to be on legally. the republican party is still bound by that consent decree from that case in 1981. that case that was lost by donald trump's brother-in-law on behalf of the republican party. because of that case, the republican party has promised they are legally bound to not do the kind of racially charged poll watching they got caught doing back in the battle days in new jersey in 1981. they've promised not to do it. they are legally bound not to do it through the end of that consent decree and that consent decree was put in place by one way or another since the early 1980s. it is finally set to expire next year. in 2017. the republican party would desperately like to get out from under that consent decree that they have been under since the 1980s but they will not get out from under it if they get caught violating it. they won't get out from under it if they get caught doing
racially charged, racially targeted poll watching again like they used to do and that they got caught for. they will not get out from that consent decree if they actually do what donald trump is now asking all republicans to go do now on his behalf. >> go down to certain areas and watch. >> watch other communities. >> go check out areas. >> when i say watch, you know what i'm talking about, right? you know what i'm talking about. >> take a look at philadelphia, chicago, st. louis. >> or don't. or don't. or don't. thanks to that old case, lost by donald trump's brother-in-law in the early '80s, one of this year's more unexpected freakouts within the republican party is now officially under way. the republican party has issued a special request to all rnc members to please not do what donald trump is asking them to do, to please not gather around polling places in philadelphia and st. louis and chicago or
anywhere no matter what the republican presidential candidate is saying on the stump. the national party sent a whole -- the whole rnc a memo to, quote, remind you of the restrictions placed on the rnc by the consent decree. quote, you are encouraged not to engage in ballot security activities even in your personal state party or campaign capacity if you elect to do so, please be aware that the rnc in no way sanctions your activity. i mean, right now, as it stands, the republican party is legally bound to not do any racially specific poll watching through next year, through 2017. if they get caught doing it, though, the consent decree gets extended until 2025. and the republican party does not want that. they really do not want that. crazy eddie's lawyer is now long gone. but it is kind of amazing that it is now his brother-in-law, the republican nominee for president this year who's the one screwing up that big case,
that john barry lost for the republican party back in the '80s. i mean, in the waning days of these elections, in the last two weeks, donald trump is telling his supporters that he doesn't trust the polls anymore and neither should they. he tweeted this this morning. we have not edited this in any way. see if you can figure out why i'm saying this. "major story that the dems are making up phony polls in order to suppress the the trump. we are going to win." democrats are making up phony polls to suppress the the trump. is that the the so? anything could happen. election day may be a hulla-ba-loo. if they do go try to have a task force or what have you, anything
could happen. but right now, "the new york times" probability that the the trump will lose this election is 93%. the 538 probability is more conservative. they put it at 86%. those are pretty high numbers. it may be that the actual drama in this case is moving down. 538 says there's a 74% chance. the democrats are going to take the senate. new york times puts that probability slightly lower at 67%. because of those kind of numbers, democrats are thinking about long term, right? democrats are thinking about how they can make this a big win for the democratic party beyond winning the white house for hillary clinton. we've got a bunch of interesting reporting on that subject still ahead tonight, including one race that the democrats are really screwing up. on the other side of the aisle, though, republicans are also thinking long term. republicans are looking at donald trump and thinking about
what else it is that they have to lose this year besides the presidency. the republicans basically know now that picking donald trump to be their presidential nominee has almost certainly cost them the white house. what they have to worry about now is whether that's it, whether the price of choosing donald trump might actually be sort of insane. we've got more ahead tonight. stay with us. his prices are insane. hit me, hit me. ha, ha. whenou he cold, you just want powerful rief. ly new alkseltzer plus fr oarfici dyes d presvative liquid gels delive towerful co symptomelief you needithout thennecessa dives you don't. store manager: cln up, aie alkaeltzer plus liquidels.
on this show a couple of days ago. i'll correct it this evening. there's something that i think the democratic party is currently getting very, very wrong but in that case i have no expectation that they will correct it because i don't think they think that they are wrong. but i do. and that story is next. ♪ ing 60,000 points from my chase ink card i boug allhe frark... wire... and plants needed to give my sh... a face... neededno oneill forget. e what the power of poin can do forour business. learn more at chase.com/in
e t the best place toren castart is in the forest. ku: i y somethin beginnin" e t the best place toren castarbeetle: snow.orest. kubo: . etle: snow covered trees. monkey: nothing to do with snow. narrator: head outside to discoverncredible animals and beautifuplants that come together narratorto can outside to diunfoettae adnture.imals kubo: wow! and beautifuplants that come together narrator: so grab your loved ones monkey: n't even. narratorand explore a world of possibilities. ku: comen, this way. narrator: visit discoverthorest.org to find the closes forest or park to you. he thinks that because he has money, that he can call women fat pigs and bimbos. he thinks that because he's a celebrity that he can rate women's bodies from 1 to 10. he thinks that because he has a mouthful of tic-tacs he can
grope any woman within groping distance. i've got news for you, donald trump, women have had it with guys like you. [cheers and applause ] >> and nasty women have really had it with guys like you. yeah. and get this, donald, nasty women are tough. nasty women are smart and nasty women vote. and on november 8th, we nasty women are going to march our nasty feet to cast our nasty votes to get you out of our lives forever.
>> elizabeth warren i think coining nasty feet for the first time in political history. we keep saying things are unprecedented and then we keep saying, oh, yeah, in the 1860s. i think nasty feet is first. i think that was a first. elizabeth warren on the campaign trail with hillary clinton. this is the first time they have campaigned together in the same place since the democratic convention. as you saw there, elizabeth warren scorched donald trump but she saved some of her other best bolts for one of the senate colleagues for kelly ayotte of new hampshire who is up for re-election who may not survive. >> donald trump, call latinos rapists and murderers, trump stayed with him. trump called them thugs and kelly stuck with them. trump attacked a gold star family and kelly struck with
him. trump even attacked kelly ayotte and called her weak. and kelly stuck with him. >> i mentioned at the top of the show that the chances of the democratic party taking control of the senate are pretty good right now. that's 67% from "the new york times," the highest probability "the times" has put on that yet all year long. and that is just one number for an overall probability that the democrats will win control of the senate. but it's not just one election, right? taking the senate doesn't happen in one fell swoop, it happens race by race and candidate by candidate. that's why the top campaign events now sound like this. >> marco rubio said donald trump is a con man and donald trump is dangerous. therefore, i support -- whoa, whoa, whoa. wait a minute. how can that work? if he won't stand up against donald trump and there are plenty of republican who is are standing up against donald trump
and calling him out. marco rubio won't. and patrick murphy will be a great u.s. senator. >> tim kaine taking some shots at republican senator marco rubio who is up for re-election in florida. senator kaine there also talking up the democratic candidate in that race, congressman patrick murphy. and you would think things would be going reasonably well for patrick murphy right now. the polls have definitely tightened in that race. the latest poll in florida shows him within two points of marco rubio. last week, patrick murphy got the endorsement of marco rubio's hometown paper, the miami herald. he's been endorsed by all four of florida's largest newspapers, three of which backed marco rubio when he first ran for the senate. also, the prevailing climate looks good for democrats in florida. hillary clinton leading trump by about four points at the top of the ticket. democrats running a huge ground operation in that state. and so, mystery, here's the
mystery. why is the democratic party just pulled its money out of the senate race? last week, the campaign arm of the senate democrats canceled millions of dollars of florida ads they were going to run against marco rubio and for patrick murphy. that followed by a couple of weeks the biggest democratic super pac doing the same thing. why is that? i mean, i know that the democrats have to make choices. i get that, obviously. democrats want to win as many seats as possible advertising florida as expensive. the amount of money it takes to advertise a week in florida, you could spend the same amount of money and advertise in two or three cheaper states, states like north carolina or missouri. the timing and strategy of this is still weird. florida would really appear to be a winnable race for the dems. these are the last three polls. they've either shown a tie or it's within two points. early voting has started in most florida counties. democrats are psyched with where
they are. they believe they are ahead of where they were four years ago when romney beat obama in florida. the latino vote in florida is up, oh, i don't know, 99%, from this same point in the race four years ago. 99% increase in the latino vote. how do you think donald trump's going to do with the latino vote? by all objective measures, marco rubio would appear to be beatable in florida in a race which could determine control. he got shellacked there in the presidential primary. now, he's going to win there while donald trump likely loses the state? really? why are democrats giving up on this race? does it make sense? joining us now is steve, former state director for the 2008 obama campaign in florida and senior adviser in 2012, now a democratic strategist. mr. shell, it's really nice to have you here. >> thanks for having me on, rachel. >> do you think -- i mean, first of all, am i describing the
democratic calculus here right, that it's so expensive to spend money in florida that maybe you're better off spending that money in the same states in is that basically the map that they are doing here or have they got other factors? >> they viewed this very anti-septically. the reality is, patrick murphy shouldn't be standing and i think they were right in september when down 7 or 8 points to slow walk the race. but the last four polls have shown even two and down one in two polls and down in another. we're basically in a dead heat. 14 days out, it's like it was and i don't understand the decision at this point. >> well, and is this the sort of thing where in these last two weeks money from the democratic party is what he needs? obviously you think that he's in shooting distance but in terms of what he needs to do to win,
would tv ads and radio ads be the sort of thing that would make the difference here? >> yeah, absolutely. there's an old saying in florida that the win state you have to lose statewide and it comes from name i.d. or without money. murphy really shouldn't be standing. he's out 4-1 since the primary but he is. and what he needs is help with hispanics, which the president has cut an ad in spanish for him and needs help with name i.d. and the i-4 corridor. places li places like tampa and orlando and i think with the clinton turnout operation, today the early vote numbers and major i-4 counties are phenomenal for us. i mean, really almost shockingly good. i think he's right in this thing. >> in terms of the more personal picture here, it's also not that it's just any senator. it's marco rubio. >> yeah. >> and i wonder, within florida,
having been beaten so badly in his home state primary, i mean, he lost the republican presidential primary badly but he really lost at home, what's marco rubio standing in the state and what are his long-term prospects as a politician coming from florida right now? >> well, i think there's two ways to look at it. first of all, if you look at our u.s. senate races, in the same term as presidential elections, our democratic nominees are usually within a point or two of the top of the ticket. the only exception is bill nelson who outperformed president obama in 2012. marco rubio is no bill nelson. he didn't get a majority of the year when he ran and, you know, we go into this thing and republicans acknowledge it's a race at this point and, again, i don't really want to have this conversation with you in 2019 and say, wow, if we had only spent 4, 5 million more, we could have taken him out when we had the chance. senior adviser, 2012, democratic strategist, steve, thanks for being with us.
nice to see you. >> thanks again, rachel. >> all right. still ahead, some surprising and slightly nauseating news from a person who i think is the most surprising senate candidate of the year. that's ahead. stay with us. miles per ho. to wboth on the track matters. d thousands of miles away. wi t help of at&t, red bull racing can sha critical information about every inbrakes a gettingarm.tually anywhere. coirmed, daniel you need to cool your brakes. vi tm the agility to hek 2ally spee& precisn. becae no one knows & l at&t.
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the ku klux klan. despite being a well-known, full-on white supremacist, proud racist, wearing a bed sheet with arm holes, david duke really did win a seat in the louisiana state legislature in 1989. he served just a single term. since then, he's been to prison for a good long stretch but now he's back in politics and running for a united states senate seat in louisiana this year. it's the race to replace republican senator david vitter. there's a giant field of 16 candidates in that senate race. david duke, for his part, says he has benefited in this race from having donald trump as the republican nominee at the top of the ticket. he says trump voters are duke voters. naturally. well, now we have news that david duke, former imperial wizard of the ku klux klan and republican hopeful, he has qualified to participate in the next debate for that louisiana senate seat. he needed to clear 5% in a
statewide poll to make the stage. he made it with 5.1%. that debate is going to happen next wednesday, including the klansmen. if your stomach is turned by that news, it's about to turn further when you hear the rest of it, which is at the location of that senate debate is an issue here. that senate debate is going to be held at dillard university in new orleans. dillard is an historically black university. michelle obama gave the commencement speech there a couple of years ago. now it's 2016 and the former klansmen is on the way to the black college that did agree to hold the debate but honestly they did nothing to deserve this. this election is going to be over before you know it this year, but in a lot of places, its stink might last longer than a few weeks. watch this space.
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if you're former speaker of the house john boehner, retirement looks a little bit like this. >> this is the coolest wine opener ever. i don't remember the last time i did an interview with a glass of wine. [ laughter ] cool. >> he's pouring like fish bowls full of red wine there. the key to a happy retirement, everybody says, is to keep busy. now that john boehner has escaped washington and floor votes and object stin nant caucus goers, he can drink wine and take care of his lawn. also, hitting the open road in his rv on his youtube channel he says he's out in freedom one in this clip, that's the name of his rv, freedom one. he says he's, quote, somewhere upon america's asphalt prairie. retirement looks different for everybody, right? president obama is about to have
his own political retirement, forcibly thrust upon him as of late january. we've now got word that his retirement is apparently going to involve a lot more politics than what john boehner has been doing. we've got some of that reporting ahead. stay with us. have fun with your replaced win. run away! [ grunts ] leave hi leaim! [ music continues ] brick and ar, what?! [ music continues ] [ tires screech ] lahs ] [ doorbell rings ] when you bundle home and auto insurance with progresve, you get more than a bigiscount. that's whayou get for bundling home and auto! jamie! u get sneaky-good coverage. thanks. we're gonna live forever! i'm one unluckyuy. the chance of being involved in a robbery is 1 in 757. the chces ofeing struck by lhtning... [thuder] [coughs]
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2008, republican political operatives started a project they called the redistricting majority project, red map for short. the idea behind red map was to flip as many state legislators from blue to red. and the timing was important because every ten years when they do the census, state legislators get to redraw election districts. in the lead-up to the 2010 midterm election, red map starting raising money to flip districts, to flip legislative seats, to approach that whole problem systematically. they raised a little over $30 million and that's a lot of money. it's not a ton of money for a political project. but here's the genius. instead of pumping that $30 million into high-profile senate and congressional districts and all of the big races, instead, they put all of that money into states where the legislators would have the most control over the redistricting process that was going to happen after the census.
they focused scientifically on finding flipable seats in key legislatures around the country and because they were obscure races, they had to spend very little money to flip these seats. they flipped a bunch of these seemingly obscure seats in places like new york where they ended up losing control at the new york state senate and alabama, where they flipped the house and the senate from democratic control to republican control and they picked off these key seats that they targeted around the country, they executed this plan that basically had them strategizing all the way down the ballot, specifically so they could get control over redistricting. so by doing that in that low-profile way out of that one election, they were able to impact the results of their congressional districts for at least a decade, until the next census, in 2020. you want to know what everybody keeps saying, the way the house
districts are drawn, even if the democrats have a huge night on november 8th, this is why. because the districts are drawn in the way they are drawn and they are drawn that way because of some genius political strategizing went in to who would be in power to redraw those districts. at a certain civic level, you probably hate this, right? redrawing congressional districts along party lines feels flat-out wrong but it is, in most cases, how the system is built and republicans really did pull off this amazing trick in 2010 with very little money and no hoopla and republicans have had nothing equivalent to this in their toolbox. after president obama won in 2008, republicans mobilized this little thing, they were able to mastermind it and execute this plan. it was political genius. mr. jankowski, welcome to genius week. i think you were a genius. president obama has 87 days last in office. he's almost done. we have now learned a little bit about what he's going to do next
after leaving office. and so, behold, the national democratic redistricting committee. he's going to be focused on redistricting reform for democrats. they are going to organize initiatives and legal challenges to redistricting maps and push for democrats winning in down-ticket races. president obama's former attorney general eric holder is going to chair the group and president obama has decided he wants this to be the main political focus of his post-presidency life. redistricting. what a better time to start than now. and as of right now, president obama is taking his first presidential jab at those key down-ticket races. he's doing something he's never done before. this week, president obama is endorsing 150 candidates for state senate and senate assembly across 20 different states. he specifically is targeting state candidates who win might flip a state legislature. this is a huge effort. this is something that president obama has never done.
it's something no president has ever done. but what does this mean for democrats down-ticket in this election cycle and in election cycles to come? is this a good answer which republicans did so effectively after president obama was first elected in 2008? how effective will this be? joining us now, steve kornacki, host of the 4:00 p.m. hour here on msnbc and an all-around smart man. >> how you doing? >> president obama is -- am i right to say that president obama is doing something that presidents otherwise haven't done? we've never seen this kind of an effort systematically. >> yeah. we've entered into a new era. it's on people's radar in a way it hasn't been before. it's a strategy and on the minds of democrats and they feel they need to do something. there's a structural component of this, too, where republicans can come up with a plan they came up with and they are sort of running downhill. they are at an advantage when you start talking about redistricting, when you start talking about congressional
district lines or state legislative lines. this is the legacy of the obama era, how the two political coalitions have evolved. the democratic coalition right now probably has the numbers to win a national election. you talk about it all the time. it's young people, single women in particular, nonwhite voters, white collared professionals. those people more and more ever are packed more and more tightly into cities in metropolitan areas. the geographic reach, if you're talking about square miles, if you're talking about land mass, area, the geographic reach arguably has never been smaller. so the numbers are there but they are increasingly packed into smaller and smaller -- really into smaller numbers of districts. >> uh-huh. >> it's much easier, if you're a republican and want to draw lines to give yourself control of the state legislature or congressional map, it's much easier to do that because you don't have -- your voters aren't -- in these rural areas, you might not have 90% but you've got 60%. democrats are sitting on 90% in
a lot of -- here's the stat that i think explains the evolution of politics better than anything else. go back to 1988. michael dukakis got wiped out in a landslide loss. a solved victory for barack obama. he wins 690 counties. the gentlemen graphic share shrinks that much that in a big win they lost ground. >> if em democrats don't want to concede, that geographic is destiny. if they want to roll that stone up that hill, is this the way to do it, to try to be strategic about winnable seats, to try to flip legislatures in a way that's advantageous? >> absolutely. it's a longer-term question and the best news for democrats on that front is, look, in 2010, which is the legislatures that
were seated is a result of the 2010 election. it was an off-year election and a mid--term election with a democratic president. this is a democratic president. that recipe is the best thing republicans could ever hope for. . the next time that's going to happen, 2020, not a mid-term year. they have maybe more of an opportunity in 2020 than in 2010. >> and maybe by starting it in 2016 they'll get their training wheels on. >> exactly. >> lots more to come, stay with us.
and i could take him behind the gym, that's what i wish. >> i westeish we were in high sl and i could take him behind the gym. apology presumably coming from the vice president's office in three, two -- let's check it. for saying on friday that he wishes he could take donald trump out behind the gym and teach him a lesson, joe biden would soon issue an apology. was that true or was that false? very false. not only did vice president joe biden not apologize for saying that, he said it again today in toledo, ohio. >> i'll get myself in trouble and say something like i'd like to take him behind the gym if i were in high school. all kiddin' aside, wouldn't you? i mean, for real. can you imagine a guy in the locker room talking that way and your sister's out there watching
the game? not a joke. if i were in high school. i want to make it clear. i understand what assault is. i'm not in high school. if i were in high school. i ued to be, i used to have a temper in high school. i don't have a temper anymore. i don't ever, nothing ever bother the me. look, folks. i get it, no. no. >> vice president clearly working it today, restraining himself, having a little fun, but in no way apologizing for saying that he wants to take donald trump behind the gym to teach him a lesson. our playfully pugilistic vice president. i was very wrong about that. we don't know who the next vice president will be. but tomorrow night we will have a chance on this show to get a really close look at the leading contender. democratic vice president nominee tim kaine will be joining us exclusively here in
studio. senator kae eoe eor kaine has b before, but we've not talked to him since he's running for vp. i'm very much looking forward to that. that's tomorrow night. stay with us. ♪ using 60,000 ps fr my cse ink card i bought all the framework... wire.. and ts
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suppositories for reef in minutes and stool softeners for comfortable relief of hard odulcolax, desied for dependable rie we've been keeping track here at the show of newspaper endorsements in the presidential race. it's been a weird year for that. the names listed on the left are a selection of hillary clinton's formal daily newspaper endorsements. she has a lot of them. the last time we reported on trump endorsements, he had three, one each from tiny papers in santa barbara, california, waxahachie daily light in texas. you guys have been super helpful at tracking these endorsements, particularly, when they're really tiny papers. send us tips, please. it's been very helpful. tonight thanks to you guys we can add the times gazette.
there's also for the first time, a big one. shelton adeleson, a big league republican donor, funded the gingrich campaign all by himself in 2012. this winter, when a paper got a mystery owner, it was the las vegas review journal's own staff who was forced to ferret out their own owner. that was sheldon adeleson. it's not at all weird for super rich people to give money to political candidates nor weird for them to buy newspapers. it was weird that he tried to buy and run a newspaper anonymously, but his reporting staff caught him. he went into this election cycle planning to donate $100 million
don lemon. hillary clinton in las vegas where they'll go head-to-head in the final debate. live pictures you're looking at now, in true las vegas side show, of donald trump, in quiting the kenyan born-brother of president obama to be in the audience. donald trump's troubles over allegations of sexual misconduct are far from over. "people magazine" reports six people have corroborated sexual assault claims made by one of the former writers against donald trump. cnn's jessica snyder joins us with more on that. jessica, we're talking about natasha stoynoff and donald trump continues to denies these allegations. what's the fallout? >> the fallout has been sudden, it's been swift, and in hours of stoynoff posting this, donald trump discredited her very publicly at a rally, even called her looks into question, as to why he couldn't have possibly
sexual assaulted her and went on a twitter tirade, asking her why she didn't come forward, special fe and feeling now she needs to tell her story and bringing forth six people who are corroborating her story. >> she is -- let's see, former journalism professor and long-term mentor, paul mclove lynn, right, what is he saying about this? he's part of the story in. >> i talked to him on the phone tonight. he says it was back in 2005, hours after stoynoff was allegedly attacked when she called him from her hotel room. he said that she was dismayed, distraught, shaken, angry, but in large part, she also felt betrayed. she felt she and donald trump had this professional business relationship, and all the sudden in her eyes he turned into a predator, so it was a very difficult time for her and the first person she turned to was her mentor and her journalism professor and he actually spoke
out tonight to cnn's aaron burnet saying he will support her then and will always support her. take ali listen. >> a man what he did to natasha and says what he says, it takes what he did and adds another despicable level to it. i know what she told me was true. she wasn't in 2005, calling me in anticipation on doing somethingti something negative to him in a presidential campaign. that's preposterous. >> at the time, he advised her not to take any action. why is that from. >> paul was really worried about this. he thought if she spoke out and went to her editors, donald trump would retaliate and blacklist her as a journalist and do things that would destroy her career, so his advice to her that she ended up taking was to
and to get taken off the donald trump beat, to no longer write about him, and as we know, she had no further by lines relating to donald trump. >> let's talk about the melania trump andand coop anderson coop interview. there was a claim she bumped on to her on fifth avenue, and melania trump is saying that never happened. what is stoynoff saying? >> she's staying pretty much above the fray, but what's interesting is "people magazine" has put forth someone who was with stoynoff when this happened, and they ran into melania, and stoynoff chatted for a bit and the one thing this friend remember business that occasion is that melania trump was carrying baron as a baby and wearing high heels at the time, so she seems to have a very vivid recollection of this happening. stoynoff is only still peaking out about donald trump himself. in fact, issuing this very biting quote about him in "people magazine" today, i'll
what does it mean for donald trump and the donald trump campaign? >> it's not good news. the allegations she has corroborated in some parts because she had told people of them at the time that they had occurred and didn't just come out with a story to try to takedown his candidacy. this is a very damaging and difficult thing for donald trump to deal with because in one respect, he has to deal with it publicly, because he has to try to put an end to it and another respect though he has to deal with the fact he needs to talk about other issues, and policy issues, he needs to try to move beyond it. so this is a very tough spot for donald trump to be in and not only her but all the other women who have made allegations against him. >> bob, melania trump spoke out to try to contain the damage about allegations of sexual assault and groping. here's what she said to anderson. >> i believe my husband. this was all organized from the
happened? >> sure. i think overall, melania doing the interview was a good thing for donald trump, i think it would have been better if donald trump was with her during the interview. but you have -- it's the same thing that hillary clinton, she can't shake the e-mail issue, he can't shake these accusers of he said she said, and i don't think it's going to be ending any time soon and you really look at donald trump's numbers with women. he needs to improve them if he's going to win this election. these type of desires, stories know who is telling the truth, but they don't help him. >> it sort of reminded me of the 60 minutes interview with i'm not some little tammy wynette standing by my man and we realize some of the things against bill clinton turned out to be true. looking back if we're talking to each other ten, 20 years into the future we'll be looking back at this melania trump and possibly thinking the same thing, bob? >> i don't -- i think it depends
on who wins on november 8th. but because there have been so many women that have come forward in the wake of the "access hollywood" tape, which was very damaging to trump, you never know, but at the same time, this is what -- this is what politicians do. they're accused of stuff. we don't know who is telling the truth, but accusation, after accusation, it does add up, it leads to bad headlines, and that's bad for trump. >> and mark, it is showing up in the polls because five national polls published within the last couple days shows clinton with a significant lead. how much pressure does that put on donald trump to try to get this, you know, allegations of sex abuse or groping behind him, and then how much does it put on him to win tomorrow? how much pressure? >> let's just say by this time tomorrow, donald trump will put his campaign on track or he'll
be derailed. he has one last opportunity to hit upwards of 50 million, to 60 million people, and try to d discredit. he needs to not talk about ex-sexsex u ual allegations. he needs to talk about how he's going to change washington. he was no colorado just a few hours ago and he didn't talk a whole lot about the sexual allegations. he talked about he was going to drain the swamp and bring change to washington, d.c. that's a much better message for donald trump, and anybody running as an outsider like donald trump is, a, get your base solidified again and he's got to get the middle of the road voters. >> the rigged election part of the strategy tomorrow? >> it's crazy if it is, because it's something that while it plays well in these big rallies that he's doing, at some point when you have everybody going out there, including president
obama, some would say it's predi predictable to dismiss it, you have the ohio governor who is going to vote for donald trump, saying donald trump is wrong, as well as republican leaders. it's not a withnning strategy. >> what's a grand slam for donald trump tomorrow? >> a grand slam is he shows he's presidential, he does not take the bait when hillary clinton says something, that he talks about what he wants to talk b talking about trade, talking about the economy and mark i definitely agree if you want the status quo, you vote for her. if you the want change, you vote for me. if he can do all of that -- he hasn't shown he can, he can win this debate. >> what's a home run? >> i think a home run is anything that isn't a big loss. if she loses narrowly, she's looses looses on points that's still a win because of her points right now. she's got to play it safe, go to a four-corners offense and run out the.
she can't be too tepid, and has to fire back. i think they are going to shake hands because i think she'll try and set a different tone. >> we'll come back trump speaking out in the accusations against her father. will it help his campaign? . when coughing keeps your family awake. breathe easier with vicks vaporub. soothing cough relief that starts working instantly.
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the tape was released, my father's comments are clearly inappropriate, and i'm glad my father gave an apology to the american people. is this statement enough? >> no is this sort of -- i think the nice thing about the way elections work is every american e eve , every man and woman decides if this is the person we want in the white house. and i'm not going to judge ivanka, or her and trump's relationship -- >> what else would you say? >> exactly. that's his daughter, and that's their relationship. i do believe in spite of the mess that's become we should let private family issues be family issues. the thing here is the voting public and whether we are going to accept a man who has brag body sexual assault, who has a history of public misess ojonny do we want him as our leader.
free world? absolutely not. it doesn't help one bit. >> do you agree with what her assessment of what mel knania tp said, we should let family issues are priefevate? >> there's not a whole lot of room for privacy. having ivanka and and melani speak, they put a softer side on him, and melania's interview was good, first and foremost, what a lot of people wanted to hear is donald trump apologized to her, she accepted his apology and she said she hopes the american people do. i think the mistake was -- a couple things, going on to say this was boy talk -- >> let me play some of it and you can go on with your response. >> i said to my husband the language is inappropriate, it's not acceptable, and i was
surprised because that is not the man that i know, and as you can see from the tape, the cameras were not on, it was only a mic and i wonder if they even knew that the mic was on, because they were kind of boy talk, and he was leading on like -- egg on from the host to say durirty and bad stuff. >> pardon me, i didn't mean to interrupt you, but blaming billy bush and saying it was boy talk. >> they see it for what it was. it wasn't boy talk. it wasn't locker room talk. this was aid gro grown man, run for past of the united states and that's how people see it. for her to blame or anyone to blame it on billy bush egging it on, it's a tremendous mistake
because it leads the appearance that he's not actually taking responsibility for his own actions and that's exactly what he should have been doing. actually, this interview should have been done ten days ago. >> you've done this a time or two. my question, the same thing i anded about and asked about ivanka, what would you have melani assaa say? >> basically understanding the american people understand personally he's apologized and they're moving forward. other than that case closed, leave it at that and move on to more important issues. i think that's what the american people want, and i think he needs to move on. we could have had an entire week of talking about issues that are strong for him. i think talking about draining the swamp, doing away with washington as usual, that's going to be a good message moving forward and reminding
american people who he won the republican nomination leading on the economy and immigration and issues like national security, and those are the things that we need to spend the next few days talking about and not talking about these issues and certainly we don't need to be blaming the women because hell hath no fury like a scorned donald, and that also is a tremendous mistake. >> i appreciate your candor. how do you not though -- when people say don't talk about these things and you tell someone, don't look at her hair, you're going to keep staring. do you think people are going to continue -- even though he's try ago is he going to talk about it? when's he going to say something? is she going to say something? do you think that's going to be part of it, sally? >> the unfortunate thing about this election is we've talked about issues apparently about 11% of the time, at least those numbers were through july of this year. 11% of the time spent on issues
at a time when we have still a struggling, recovering economy, when we have concerns of security and isis and all of these things. 11%. so this is a tabloid election. we talk about this stuff. we're going to continue talking about it. i do think the issue though is -- it can't be separated from donald trump and his character. he -- you're electing not just a person for the ideas and he doesn't have any so what else do we have him left? we judge him on his character. >> i want to play this. manu raju, our reporter in washington said, i was an athlete and no one talked that way donald trump and billy bush did on the "access hollywood" bus, watch this. >> we have now ten women that we know that have come forward that he sexual assaulted them. that's a crime. >> do you think he's committed a crime? >> i don't know. you know, you have to have somebody file a complaint, you know, you can't do it without someone having -- these are
people who are trapped. they are with this man in public places and like an airplane, puts his hands under somebody's skirt in an airplane. the woman moves her seat. i mean i -- for me, i can't understand -- i don't know about a crime, but it is kind of a sickness. >> so alice quickly because i need to move o. i have to ask you something else that's just as important. that's a pretty serious thing for him to say. >> the. a it is. in terms of whether these instances are true or not, it's disturbing and unfortunately, to harry reid's point, unfortunately a lot of times when situations like this happen, women can't come forward for whatever reason, for their job, or they feel intimidated by a man in power, so i think these are all issues that are side issues that can and should be talked about at some point, but
in terms of the presidential election, i think we need to look at the bigger picture in terms of this happened, he's apologized for it, he's trying to move on and i think further -- for the good of this -- >> and let people judge for themselves. >> i want to play this is ed rollins chair of the pro donald trump great america pack. he said this today. >> itf somehow trump pulls a miracle, which would take a miracle at this point, and obviously his party he can do what he wants with it. if not i think we begin from ground zero with lots of different facts and candidates. >> is he right? will it take a miracle? >> i love ed rollins and he's my political mentor. it's a difficult situation. hillary clinton is trying to run out the clock. the latest polls show him down 20 points amongst women in the key battleground states one month ago, hillary was just up
five points amangst women, now she's up 15 points amongst women. women take up 53% of the eli electora electorate, so donald trump needs to try and make up ground in the last three weeks and has his work cut out for him. it's a difficult road ahead. it's never impossible. never rule out donald trump. he's been counted down and out before but it's going to be a difficult road. >> alice speaking the truth tonight. go ahead here. >> he insulted -- >> duo you think it's a miracle -- >> do you think it's a miracle if donald trump -- if he can come back. >> yes, i've been praying for it every night. i'm losing myself in double flegtives. it will take a miracle for donald trump to win. listen, then i've stopped making predictions about this election,
you know, because he's defied everying iss every single one of them, but this is the miracle i hope for, the american peel aople are bet than this, not the insults of everyone under the sun, but please be better than this. please. please. >> thank you, ladies. >> thanks, don. when we come back we've been hearing a lot of locker room talk in the wake of the lewd donald trump tape, but wait until you hear what donald trump has to say about what goes on in the locker room.
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course howard stern. he's what he said today. >> this idea of locker room talk, i have to tell you something, all the times i've been around guys and believe me when i'm around guys 85% of the time you're talking about pussy. but i have never been in the room where someone has said grab them by the pussy. in other words -- >> i've never heard that term before. >> no one has ever advocating getting that step you're going to invade someone's space. locker room talk to me is guys are talking about who's hot, or what they've done to chicks or what they're hoping to do to chicks. >> andy, even howard stern says trump's language isn't locker room talk, what's your reaction? >> don, i don't know if i'm the right guy to analyze locker room talk. i don't know. to me, the howard stern stuff, this is from the '90s when he was on the show, five ten years ago, and to me, to analyze in a political setting i'll just
level with you, it doesn't seem right. even howard stern -- i'm nota howard stern fan. >> bababuoy. >> trump went in there and it was an entertainment program and to kind of all the sudden now it's on cnn, i just feel like this is apples and oranges so i really can't comment on it. >> van jones i saw a side eye there. >> l jui just wanted to say the reason i feel this tape has been different than everything else with donald trump is everything else he's done that's been controversial, that's gotten people upset could be put into one of three categories. it was either political conviction, he actually believes this stuff, even if it's outrageous, he could say, he's an authentic guy, or it's political calculation, trying to play to a certain base and say, maybe he's just being smart politically, or it's comedy, he's being an entertainer. this is not the first time it's not political calculation, or
comedy. this is him by himself in a hot-mic moment with somebody else just talking and being his actual self and his actual self is disgusting and appalling. and we could go back, boy talk, locker room talk, et cetera, this is sexual assault talk, this is criminal talk. i can't go and grab donald trump by the crotch and try to kiss him. that's an assault. i'd go to jail, and so it's not about the talk, it's about the deed that the talk describes. >> that was a visual fur most of the audience, but any way -- >> scottie, you're shaking your head. >> i don't know how i can follow that one. i'm going to try to pivot just to clear all of our minds. >> it's pivot time. >> and you know, it's funny. i think it's hilarious that van says political calculation.
we already have nbc saying they sat on these tapes. they actually wanted to release them 48 hours before the debate, to cause the maximum amount of damage but because of the hurricane that went through they ended up getting leaked out. this is all political calculation. it does not dismiss -- sort of like the wikileaks. that does not apologize for the works of themselves. if this would have come out six months nine months a year ago, they would have had the conversation but the reason we're talking about this is going into this month hillary clinton had not been able to mobilize the female vote. donald trump was leading by 17 points with female married women. >> let me and you asking, scottie. that's the reason why this came out. >> scottie, you think the clinton campaign is behind this. do you think the clinton campaign are in cahoots with nbc news and anybody else, and it's really? >> it's already been shown nbc wanted to cause maximum damage with this.
now whether that was at the allegiance -- we'll have to wait. maybe that was an e-mail that was lost in the deletion of her 30,000 e-mails. we'll find that out next year. >> that was good. >> thank you. you cannot sit there and look at the timing of all of this coming out they're calculated and once again we're distracting from the issues most men and women in america want to find out about these candidates and nbc for some reason schochose to sit on these tapes three weeks before the election in order to cause damage -- >> you've made your point. the character of the candidate, that's very important when you're running for president and as i said, i think i said this the night before, peoples' characters are often revealed when they are -- when they don't think anyone is listening, and so when you're in the public, you have a microphone, you're in front of these cameras, you're going to be on your best behavior, but when you're on the bus and you're hanging out with your buddy, that may be your true character that comes out. do you agree with that, bakari? >> i don't agree with it, but --
but even more importantly, don, i think we're looking at this tape in the wrong manner. i think we -- we're looking at it in a vacuum. we have to look at it in the totality. donald trump from the get-go, we've said this over, and over, and over again, but it can't be stated enough, he targeted hispanics, he targeted muslims and african-americans. he targeted the disabled. he targeted pows, he targeted gold star moms and now he's talking about sexual assault on women. this is not anything new when you look at it in the totality of the circumstances. now i had two major issues with melania trump's interview. first was that she simply stated that he speaks real, he's very honest and what he says is what you can believe, you can take it to the bank. all trump surrogates say that. if heed that on that bus, can we take that to the bank, as well? is sexual assault to him something that he believes in his core and his heart? that's first and the second thing is, she said billy bush made him do it? if billy bush made him do it,
what is putin, what's the iranian regime going to do to him? if you can't stand up to billy bush -- >> that's going too far. 11 years ago, i would love to see bakari -- ywhat you were sa 11 years ago. that's ridiculous. >> those are very good points f. he's saying billy bush was 20 years his senior -- >> that's an absolute stretch. if we're going to take the hidden tapes, the videotapes that have come out about james o'keefe, and are we looking at the wikileaks, the racist, and the homophobic -- >> james o'keefe is not running for president. we're talking about the person running for president. >> he's encouraging. let's talk about what they call bernie sanders himself that's come out in all of this. like i said --
>> scottie, i do have to say -- hold on, bakari. you're making very good points but it's not -- you're not answering bakari's questions and i thought those were two really great questions. if billy bush can sort of goat him into saying those things what's going to happen when a world leader does the same thing? if we can't believe what he said on the bus on an un-guarded moment, why would he say you can take what he means and take it to the bank? i think those are great questions. >> i think it was two guys peacocking in front of each other, try fing to show off and figure out who was the bigger manually man. it happens all the time. don't agree with the word choice, but most men may not go to that extent, but a lot of guys try to beat one another. bakari, you've never said that -- >> listen, i've never said anything about sexual assault tow any of my friends. in fact, if you say something like that in the conversation, that's a quickest way for to you get jacked up and somebody to have a serious conversation with you. there is a line that is guy talk
and what donald trump did -- i mean he's a habitual linestepper. he jumped over that line to what's inappropriate. no mother, sister, daughter, aunt deserves any of that. >> to me what this is revealing what trump is talking about with media bias. anyone with the right mind, including melania trump, has said this tape is not good, he apologizes but we're on day ten of this scandal and the balance -- >> you forget last night his wife came out to support him for this tape doing a long interview -- his wife was on cnn last night, and fox today. we would not have been talking about it had she not agreed to do those interviews. she is standing by herman. >> i disagree, don, with all due respect. and an important point, when donald trump is reeling against the big media and you call is a conspira conspiracy, it's a very real phenomen phenomenon. the center for public integrity looked at the money that was given to presidential campaigns
and 96% of the money went to the hillary clinton campaign. so i agree with you that, yes, this is a bad tape -- we get it, donald trump did not look good. >> they're talking about the media -- they're talking about food critics and movie critics, they're not talking about journalists, so the numbers are skewed. my question was -- i'm going to let you get in, van. to be more specific, just so you know, andy, my question was about melania trump's response, that was what bakari said, and what came out of her mouth, yeah, and so that's what we were responding to. but any way, van, i'm going to let you talk and make your point after the break and andy i'll let you know, as well. we'll be right back. unces a new swiss jr. bacon cheeseburger as an option with the 4 for $4 for a limited time. with 4 nuggets, fries and a drink for just $4 the swiss jr. bacon cheeseburger. now back to america.
his policies are so much more important than his personality and his personal flaws with bill clinton. with donald trump, his personal flaws are so much more important than his policies say on trade or whatever so they can make that case and they can feel comfortable with it. there's problem though. what i think we don't actually get honest about is that it wasn't the tape. it was really donald trump's response to the tape that left a lot of people very concerned. >> it was the tape, van. >> when barack obama -- >> van, come on. >> hold on a second. can i -- you have your point. i want to make my point. the tape was horrible. but listen, there was a horrible tape with barack obama, as well, in 2008, when reverend wright came out, the guy who married me shill a michelle and obama said horrible things. he kim ocame out and gave one o
most impressive speeches in american politics and he shows under fire he could take us to a higher place. the problem with donald trump, when the bomb fell on his campaign, he took us to a lower place and started talking about bill clinton and everybody else. for a lot of people they say this is not the kind of person they want in the white house. when he gets in trouble he takes us low, not high, and that's a big part of why the media isn't moving off of this. he's not apologized or risen to the occasion yet. >> all right. >> i agree with van -- what was that, don? >> i said all right, deacon jones. >> don i was going to say, i agree with his point about bill clint clinton, but with the reverend wright stuff, this was somebody that he knew for a decade, he went to his church, you know, he was the individual who married them. that's something that barack obama did consciously for a decade, and the stuff that was
said about the united states of america was so horrific. nobody is proud of this moment, but this is a 15-second, whatever it was that horrible moment before the bus opened with the sccamera. i've known the man for seven years and if you talk to anybody that knows him, including his wife, this is not the man that donald trump knows, and he's made it clear that's not who he is. >> told on, bakari, van, as i said deacon, i understand those words, g-damn america that didn't come out of barack obama's mouth, that came out of reverend wright's mouth. the words on that bus came out of donald trump's mouth. if donald trump had sat in a church with a preacher, who said those things, that would be a different story, but i don't think -- i think it's apples and oranges to compare those two situations. >> but i'll tell if you donald trump had sat in that church, i'll tell you every night on cnn
around-the-clock, there would be a different member of that church there and it would be on, and on, and on. >> you don't remember 2008? >> that's not accurate. what's accurate is that donald trump said that he likes to commit sexual assault because he can do that. he said i just walk up and i grab them because i can do that. i'll put a tick ta-tac in my mo and i'll kiss them and you have women who said he put a tic-tac and he kissed me. but this is the same person who talked about women's appearances, women's flat-chests, the whole plethora, who walked into locker rooms women were changing for pageants. >> that has not been proven, once again. >> he said it himself. >> that doesn't mean he did it. first of all, let me say this -- >> scottie, before you respond, scottie, he did say to himself, again on -- on howard stern, he
said that he walks into the room and he has i have to inspect it is place. but go on, scottie. >> and a lot of people say things on howard stern, and let me say this -- >> howard stern is entertainment. >> and he wasn't running for president. he was not a politician. i'm sorry he doesn't have this well covered. let me point out i'm a female, melania trump is a female. we are women. this is where this is going to go dead because the way the media has handled this is starting to back fire, especially the majority of these women's cases are finding out to be hit jobs on mr. trump, tied with the hillary clinton campaign, the dnc having maj majority of them are. there were chaperones that never came forward and said wrong things happened. the details matter. this is your track record, it's getting old. >> i've got ten seconds left. who is going to respond? >> grow up. >> i have an 11-year-old
daughter. >> thank you. >> and i don't care if a chaperone is in the room, if a grown adult man running the pageant or not walks in while she's changing clothes that is a problem. >> then why didn't the >> why did he brag about it? >> it's different. >> once again it never happened. >> thank you. we'll be right back. happy anniversary dinner, darlin' can this much love be cleaned by a little bit of dawn ultra? oh yeah one bottle has the grease cleaning power of two bottles of this bargain brand. a drop of dawn and grease is gone. ♪alarm clock beeping] ♪ ♪
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internet. instantly a new hashtag was born, #billybushmademedoit. as in when trump cheated on first dad. or ryan lochte changed his story. you know how trump is always saying this whole election is being rigged? now we all know who is rigging this election. and the hashtag. even noted hillary supporter cher got into the act. how can trump stand up to putin? couldn't stand up to billy bush. this four-year-old puddle tweeted billy bush made me put this paper towel on my head. john olver did a segment. >> about billy bush being creepy
with everyone. >> now they can add the 2005 bus scene. melania had a name for what husband engaged in on that bus. >> boy talk. >> with a 49-year-old boy? blame it on the 23-year-old, president trump, why did you nuke brussels? hashtag. >> come on billy. let's go. that's better. >> cnn new york. >> thank you very much. that's it for us tonight. appreciate you watching. see you right back here thursday night. unforgettable, wherever you go the scents you can't forget... from herbal essences, blooming now!
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heading into the end, though, donald trump, look at this, the foundation of trump support, white voters without a college degree, a whopping 30-point lead on that question. one of the arenreasons this is a total blowout nationally. we didn't just ask voters who they're voting for, we asked them why. a five-point national lead, not a total blowout. one of the reasons it's not bigger than that, who would best handle the economy? donald trump wins on that. the other big issues, hillary clinton a little bit on terrorism, a bit on immigration. what has her campaign been about, saying he's erratic, unfit, temperamentally not fit to be president of the united states. the voters agree, nearly 30 points she wince on the question of which candidate has the best temperament to be president, also wins by 15 points when voters are asked which of these two do you trust to be commander in chief? she's winning on the qualification for the job, if you will, even though she trails on the economy. the biggest question of all, anderson, anything in the new national numbers to change this? cnn electoral map shows hillary
clinton with a lopsided add vanta vantage. there's some reasons to say donald trump's republican support is coming back, maybe that will help him in the west where he's struggling. there's also good reasons for secretary clinton. she leads when we asked voters in the midwest, when asked who they'd pick for president. look at the national numbers and this map, a tighter race than some organizations have it in their polling. still advantage clinton. when you go state by state, lopsided advantage clinton. >> donald trump as we said finished a big rally. his very first words at it after thanking supporters was to point to a different poll showing him in the lead. we should say the survey from "investors business daily" does not meet our standards for transparency. cnn's jim acosta joins us now. thump spending a lot of time in florida obviously this week. he definitely needs to win there. what's the latest tonight? >> reporter: that's right, anderson. donald trump just wrapped up his remarks here at tampa right around us at this moment we want
kellyanne conway, his campaign manager, said on "meet the press" yesterday, we are running behind, but then earlier today, anderson, on cnn, jason miller, the senior communications adviser, said oh, no, no, kellyanne conway was talks about fund-raising but anderson, if you go back to the transcript from "meet the press" she was asked about how they're doing in the polls and she acknowledged as is the case right now that day are running behind. i have to point out right now, anderson we've been seeing this at on a routine basis at the donald trump rallies, he's been ramping up the rhetoric against the news media, we're seeing hostility against us, the media covering his campaign. a man right now holding a sign that says "trump sucks." earlier tonight, a woman jabbed me with her "trump for president" sign. i kaecan't imagine another coup weeks of this. it's getting intense. hillary clinton who's putting a good deal of her campaign emergency into
down-ticket races, some worry is overconfidence. she's extending her coattails to senate candidates, trying to take advantage of the one senator who's been known to get under donald trump's skin. more on that from brianna kei r keilar. >> reporter: hillary clinton making a campaign swing through new hampshire. >> we are more than our disagreements, we americans. there is so much more that unites us than divides us. >> reporter: and she's got help from liberal darling elizabeth warren, senator from neighboring massachusetts who took aim from donald trump for this remark at the last debate. >> such a nasty woman. >> he thinks because he has a mouth full of tic tacs he can force himself on any woman within groping distance. i got news for you, donald trump. women have had it with guys like you. nasty women are tough. nasty women are smart. and nasty women vote.
>> reporter: but for many americans, election day has come and gone. according to an analysis from catalyst by cnn, 5.1 million votes have already been cast across the u.s. as clinton and her campaign are feeling confident about her path to the white house, she's focusing more on helping democrats take back the senate. campaigning here in the granite state with governor maggie hassan who's leading in the polls as she looks to unseat incumbent republican kelly ayotte. >> unlike her opponent, she has never been afraid to stand up to donald trump. she knows he shouldn't be a role model for our kids or for anybody else, for that matter. >> reporter: it's a familiar refrain clinton is using. over the weekend in north carolina, she rallied voters for deborah ross as she tries to take on senator richard burr. >> unlike her opponent, deborah has never been afraid to stand up to donald trump.
because she knows he's wrong for north carolina. >> reporter: clinton is steadily moving her focus beyond donald trump. upping her planning for what she believes will be her transition to the presidency, a source close to clinton tells cnn. but clinton denies she's getting ahead of herself. >> you know, i'm a little superstitious about that. we've got a transition operation going and i haven't really paid much attention to it yet because i want to focus on what our first task is and that is convincing as many americans as possible to give us the chance to serve. >> brianna joins us now. what are you hearing from the clinton campaign? how confident is she going to the final two weeks of the campaign? >> reporter: you know, they're saying that every vote matters, of course, but there's a lot of confidence that we're hearing from the clinton campaign. they need to be careful they don't count their chickens before they hatch, specifically we're talks about people in the middle of the political spectrum who don't want to vote for donald trump and don't really want to vote for hillary clinton. they could become complacent if they think they don't have to
vote for hillary clinton in order to vote against donald trump. but it's just so clear the confidence as she is heading out to help all of these down-ballot democrats. that's what really tells you where they're at. >> brianna, this new report that came out today saying obamacare premiums will be going up an average of 22% next year. that's going to make things difficult for clinton considering how closely she's tied her campaign to its supposed success. >> reporter: that's right. politically this is not good for hillary clinton or for president obama, but here's the bottom line as we see it. i think it's important for people to understand, 22% increase in the next year in premiums on -- through obamacare. these are the plans bought on the exchange. it was 7% last year. so that is a jump. now most people because they get subsidies on the exchange actually aren't going to feel that increase, but still, this is a sizable, the overall cost of the program is big. it's getting bigger an td the b issue is choice. there's a number of states going into next year where people may go on the exchange to get a plan
and only going to have one insurance company to choose from. >> our panel, jonathan tasini, christine quinn. patrick healy is sheer. trump supporters jeffrey lord and scottie nell hughes. donald trump says he's going to win. they see a path. do you see what he's saying? >> he's in trouble and they know it. they are basing a lot of these assumptions on arizona being a solid trump state. nevada coming through. perhaps new hampshire coming through. certainly ohio and florida coming through. and talking to people inside the trump campaign, they acknowledge that they need that economy argument to really cut their way in the last two weeks. >> that seems to bt only thing in which he's leading. >> the only thing he's leading and, you know, in trump's favor here, 9 the1% of people in the cnn poll say the economy is still very important or important to them. he has an argument to make there.
he could dtie in the obamacare premium. you have donald trump coming out today saying the latest accuser against him of unrawanted advans is a porn star and bad mouthing her. the last two weeks donald trump needs to be focusing on that economic argument. it's the best one for him, but as we've seen for the last year and a half, his ability to get in his own way is still there. >> jeffrey, even this weekend, gettysburg address which was supposed to outline his first 111 1 supposed to outline his first 111 1 p 100 days he spent a fair amount of time talking about suing these women accusers. >> right. i think what he's tryinging to do is die all this together, all of this gets back to a culture of corruption, if you will. there's an ad i found very interesting. i think 15 days out, if we learned nothing else, the last year and a half, things can change on a dime. there's a television ad by a group called america's worth it. it never mentions donald trump. what it does is attack hillary clinton as the queen of
corruption and ties her to their words, not mine, liberal media bosses. that is part in parcel of the trump attack, and so -- >> at a major policy address that you said this is going to be my 100 days, the big-ticket item initially to be i'm going to sue all these women -- >> i understand. there's two ways of looking at this, anderson. i confess, that was my first reaction. the second reaction -- >> once you get a couple lines. >> three or four. >> all right. >> once you tie this all in, it's all -- it's all tied together. today in pennsylvania -- wait, wait -- >> let him finish. >> today in pennsylvania, the former democratic attorney general of pennsylvania was sentenced to jail for corruption. now, i'm just saying that this kind of thing makes a difference and that's what he's trying to point out. >> so he's trying to wrap it up in a culture of corruption but if you listen to what anderson said, he raised how he stepped on his message by continuing to
bring up he's going to sue the women and now attacking the most recent accuser in an incredibly insensitive way by saying something to the effect of this isn't the first time she's been gro groped. >> he said, oh, i'm sure she's been grabbed before. >> the people that's appealing to the most are the people who are harassing jim acosta, diehard trump supporters who hear this and believe that sort of larger, you know, narrative -- >> right. >> -- with the news media. but that's not getting whatever undecided voters are left or the soft clinton supporters. >> these are his acts. this is not a conspiracy by the clinton campaign. these are women who are accusing him of doing something. >> let me ask you about the obamacare premiums going up 22 pk. i mean, that -- had that happened during the primary, that would have been something that bernie sanders would have jumped all over. how bad is this for hillary clinton? >> well, bernie sanders and in progressives still believe that the only way to solve this is to have a single payer medicare for all system.
i will point out secretary clinton has started talking about the public option as an alternative, frankly, what she needs to move to. there's no question that the obamacare -- the rising premiums are going to hurt people but i think that for donald trump to make the argument and republicans to make the argument they're the solution, they want to throw all the people covered by obamacare off obamacare so they won't have coverage and would not preserve the pre-existing condition -- >> trump claims he would preserve it but how much do you wish -- he hasn't shown how. how much do you wish this happened months ago, this announcement was made? >> thank you for being honest. someone admitting the goal of obama compacare to put us on a payer system. >> i'm saying the opposite. >> that's what the whole goal is. may i finish now? 17 of the 23 exchanges are now out of business, gone bottom up. this is not impacting those in urban areas. this is impacting those people in the rural areas.
you've got in alabama right now 71% of increases of most people on insurances, oklahoma city is going to have the same kind of -- rural areas of arizona, 116%, they're going to see their premiums -- >> i just want to clarify something, though. >> that's the issues that are impacting america. you can talk about these other women. >> jonathan? >> obamacare was a institute for inaction on the part of republicans, period. republicans did not want to change the current system which basically cost people their lives and left millions of people not covered. >> that's not true. >> it is absolutely fact. >> no, it is not. >> it is absolutely the fact. the second thing, what obamacare tried to do is begin to go along the path, no question about it, to single payer. i'm not embarrassed by it. >> you should be. >> we should have medicare in the country, if we don't have medicare for all system -- >> we have to take a quick break. we're going to pick this up in a moment. later as we've been discussing i'll ask the republican party's top spokesman how donald trump squares his polling problems with women with his continued
statements about women and the women who are accusing him. that's just ahead tonight on "360." we made the movie the book of life. the image on the surface book, transports you into the world which is our main goal as animators and you can actually touch the screen... you can't do that on a mac. in my gentleman's quarters, we sip champagne
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for one of the largest greeting card companies. businesses count on communication, and communication counts on centurylink. donald trump says he's winning most but not all polling, certainly most reputable polling says he's not. experts have said if trump were to win it would be the biggest polling failure since dewey and truman in 1948. donald trump is railing against
more than just the polls. >> our system is rigged. our system is rigged. she never had a chance of being convicted, even though everybody in this audience, and boy do we have a lot of people, everybody here knows that she's 100% guilty. >> that was donald trump just moments ago. back with our panel. i want to bring up the story from the "wall street journal" because a lot of republicans are pointing to it, ties a contribution from a pac of a close clinton ally, virginia governor terry mcauliffe, to the wife of the guy at the fbi who ended up being in charge of the investigation into the clinton e-mail server. basically implying there was a quid pro quo. >> right. >> how damaging do you think that is? because it certainly fits into the narrative you guys want of -- >> exactly. >> -- that this is -- >> that's exactly the point. anderson, we look at these polls, let me just talk to pennsylvania for a second. depending on the poll he's behind by five, six, seven,
eight, nine points, et cetera. i know you hate when i do anecdotes. >> go. >> on saturday when i had the day off, i took good old mom, put her in the car, got the halloween pumpkin 20 miles out in the countryside. there were trump signs everywhere. i saw ones, one hillary sign. now, anecdotal, but i'm trying to understand the polling data as, in relation to the -- >> what you're seeing out there. >> what i'm seeing on the ground. the last time i saw that much effort for one candidate was 2008, they were all obama sides. >> christine, this terry mcauliffe story, this guy was not in charge of the investigation when the donation was made to his wife. he was later, i guess, elevated. >> right. >> how serious do you think this is? >> look, terry mcauliffe is an intelligent guy. there's no way around that. he doesn't have some kind of esp where he can figure out -- >> he's a very close friend of the clintons. >> he gave a donation in relevance to where somebody was. i'm not saying he couldn't be so
intelligent to see into the future to know where this gentle ma'amm man was going to go. >> he was there. >> the gentleman was in one place and another job. he couldn't have possibly known. look, i don't disregard signs. they're a sign of enthusiasm. anecdote, i was in a restaurant today, a man came up to me and said i don't want to interrupt your lunch, his eyes welled up with tears, he said i wasn't sure what i was going to vote for, now as it's gone on and on, think about my daughters. >> like dueling banjo. >> mine has a person, he just has signs. >> he didn't have any tears -- >> pumpkins, though. >> all right. all right. two guys walked into a bar. one of them -- >> but it is interesting, these polls, i mean, the trump people continue to say, look, these polls are just flat-out wrong. >> right. and, look, we're going to know in two week. the problem is something like pay for play can have real damage, it can do real damage.
you have to start laying the groundwork for a pay to play argument months in advance in order for it to break through and people to understand it. donald trump, i remember when we talked last spring when he was trying to figure out what adjective to put onto hillary clinton's name, he was going for sort of low energy hillary. >> highbrow -- >> he went for crooked hillary, but the thing is that pay for play, it's a complicated, you know, multilayered argument that just in the last two weeks, it's really very hard to -- >> this is another chapter in the book of corruption, the clinton corruption chronicles. >> doesn't donald trump continue to step on his message every step of the way? i mean -- seems like he cannot -- it seems like any other candidate would have been able to make a more coherent argument over, to patrick's point, over months and months and months without having, you know, the headline this weekend being i'm going to sue these women when i get into office. >> but i think he has. i mean, let's look at it. we had saudi arabia arms deal, we had -- >> it was a 39-minute speech
about 15 minutes -- >> no, actually i think it came out und out, two minutes were focused on women who were going to sue him. ten minutes was background overall. of the past. dealing with the scandal and media bias was ten minutes. he lumped it all together to jeffrey's point. >> it was everything other than issues about his first 100 days. >> i think it goes back to the idea, what is the media focusing on, what are they focusing on? what are the stories they're making their headlines be out of? they're not talking about the fact he wants to rid the swamp, he wants to put in term limits. >> by the way -- he's not talking about it -- >> the majority of it -- focusing on one line. >> the moment that i will never forget in this campaign, many moments, was interviewing donald trump in his office the day after fbi director comey's report came out on the e-mail scandal in july and saying to donald trump, this is a gift, you know, you're going to be talking about this for the next, you know, weeks and weeks and weeks. he said i can talk about it for about five minutes at the rally then everybody gets bored and got to go back to the wall and
got to go to the polls. it was sort of like a -- that moment crystalized him, you know, for me. he's a showman. he's a performer. he needs, you know, there's a plus. the idea of prosecuting an argument for three months, four months, the e-mail was perfectly served up, you know, as a weapon for him. and july, it just sort of faded and august -- >> he had three opportunities at the debates. to your word you used, anderson, coherence, if you actually go and read the transcripts which geeks like me do, he's not able to make a coherent argument about any policy issue. >> i remember corey lewandowski before the last debate talking about draining the swamp, statement, taken fire among his supporters and what he'd be talks about at ttal talking about at the debate. >> he used gettysburg, though. >> he started that, what, more than a week ago, he could have been -- >> i think you're going to -- >> the teleprompter -- >> let's go back to 2008 and
barack obama. talk about -- >> one at a time. >> the great entertainer in chief. i mean, i will give barack obama this, in 2008, he was the best campaigner, you know, bill clinton was good, barack obama was even better. and he was allowed to get people engaged. he got people to the polls. he got people inspired. and it wasn't because of talking policy. i think mr. trump might have watched him. might have watched people like bill clinton. it's all about engagement. people showing up to the polls. >> obama -- >> we know barack obama and bill clinton and donald trump is neither of them. he's not -- >> that's a good thing. >> no, he's not -- >> he's got the energy. >> he's not able to engage voters. >> we have to pause it there. crunchtime on the campaign trail for both. i'll talk to rnc chief strategist sean splicer about the headwinds trump is facing.
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i talked to sean spicer for the rnc just before we went to air. sean, you've seen the results of the new cnn poll. trump trails by five points. he said today at a rally he thinks he's winning. do you believe he's winning? >> i think when you look at the battleground states whether it's florida, iowa, ohio, where it matters, we're winning. we have a path to 270 that's going to put him in the white house come november 8th. again, i think the other thing, anderson, you look at states where we can start to see evidence of that. florida we're up over the democrats in the early votes. not just the absentee ballots requested, then returned. same thing in iowa. and in places, excuse me, like iowa and north carolina -- in iowa, excuse me, in places like iowa and ohio where traditionally we don't do as well as early votes, you see actually a consolidation of where we've been in the past. it's a much closer race for us. we do so well there on election day. >> but, i mean, you know, we just had john king explain the electoral map.
even if trump wins all the states that cnn currently has as tossups, he still comes up short of 270. so i mean, you're looking -- you say you're looking at early -- >> right, no. if you take florida, ohio, nevada, iowa, north carolina, and then add in new hampshire and maine, too, areas we're doing well in, that gets us over the 270 mark. >> i think new hampshire, though, i think even maine in real clear politics, a poll of polls, shows clinton in the lead. and also in florida. >> again, some of these places, there's not one of those states that's not in the margin of error. we feel good about our data, where we are, and voter targeting. the early vote, ann absentee vote requests and our ground game. i get with all due respect to the polls i know where we are data wise. we feel very good. >> this morning trump tweeted "major story the dems are making up phony polls in order to suppress the trump. we're going it to win." do you -- can you point to which polls and which democrats he's referring to?
>> abc showing a 12-point race. that's by far an outlier. the demographics that make up -- >> that's not necessarily a phony -- >> the phony polls are online polls donald trump always seems to be referencing. even the rasmussen poll isn't something we would use. >> okay, again, you get to make that decision. i think when you look at the ma rasmussen poll and ibd poll, the ibd poll was the most accurate poll going back a couple cycles. i get you might not like it but it's been one of the most accurate polls going forward. >> for clarificatioclarificatio use it because they don't reveal their methodology and the rasmussen poll uses a combination of online polling and telephone polling. >> right. i understand that, but i'm not saying that you have to accept it, but it doesn't make it phony. >> just today donald trump said in response to an adult film actress who says he grabbed and
kissed her, offered her money to go to his hotel room. "oh, i'm sure she's never been grabbed before." >> i really don't. the idea today we saw terry mcauliffe, one of clinton's strongest allies allegedly -- not allegedly, helped steer $500,000 in campaign contributions to the wife of the person who ran the fbi investigation of hillary clin n clinton. i'm somewhat shocked they're not getting the level of attenti attention -- >> he did give the money before the guy was assigned to that case. >> he was the number three at the fbi at the time. yes, he became number two but the idea that that doesn't seem like a huge impropriety is a little -- the idea that people are sort of helping to make the excuses for. it's hillary clinton that should have to answer for that. it's terry mcauliffe. the media shouldn't be sort of making excuses for when certain things happen. they should be asking the tough questions as they do every day of the trump campaign. >> all right. sean spicer, good to talk to you
as always. thank you. >> thanks, anderson. and our interview, complete interview with sean can be seen online at ac360.com. ahead, more on donald trump's appetite for suing people or threatening to. we'll look at why trump's threat to sue "the new york times" over its reporting on sexual assault allegations is likely going to remain just that, a threat and no more. we'll be right back. romantic moments can happen spontaneously, so why pause to take a pill? or stop to find a bathroom? cialis for daily use,
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as we reported during a speech in pennsylvania over the weekend, donald trump went off script and spent a good amount of time attacking women who've accused him of sexual assault threatening once again to take them to court. >> every woman lied when they came forward to hurt my campaign. total fabrication. the events never happened. never. all of these liars will be sued after the election is over. it was probably the dnc and the clinton campaign that put forward these liars with their fabricated stories, but we'll find out about their involvement at a later date through litigation. and i look so forward to doing
it. >> well, trump is also threatening or there were reports he was going to sue "the new york times" over its reporting on sexual assault allegations he's facing. none of this is actually surprising giving trump's long history of threatening to sue people who say things about him he doesn't like. "usa today" wrote a strong piece about his propensity to sue. "the presidential candidate threatened a rapper, documentary filmmakers, palm beach civic clucks newsletter and better business bureau for lowering its rating of trump university. vowed to sue multiple news organizations including "the new york times," "wall street journal," "washington post," "usa today," didn't follow through with any of those." randi kaye tonight reports. >> no papers more corrupt than the failing "new york times." good news it is failing, it won't be around too much longer, but they are really, really bad people. >> reporter: donald trump tearing into "the new york times" for its reporting on women accusing trump of touching them inappropriately.
trump's team called the article reckless and defamatory and demanded a retraction and an apology. failure to comply, trump's lawyer warned, would leave trump no choice but to pursue all available actions and remedies. the candidate has made it sound like a lawsuit is imminent. >> it will be part of the lawsuit we are preparing against them. >> reporter: if trump's lawyers do sue "the new york times," don't expect the paper to request the lawsuit be dismissed. it may be exactly what t"the ne york times" wants. in response to trump's lawyer, an attorney for "the times" shot back, "if mr. trump disagrees w wing the opportunity to have a court set him straight." read between the lines and "the new york times" seems to be saying, bring it on. donald trump in a court of law under oath answering all kinds of embarrassing questions about his sex life and his behavior with women. it's a process called discovery and in the end could provide a treasure-trove of stories. that is if trump tells the
truth. the "washington post" found when trump was deposed back in 2007 for a lawsuit he filed against a "new york times" reporter, trump lied as many as 30 times. if a lawsuit is filed in this latest case involving his accusers, legal experts say it wouldn't just be donald trump facing questions. ivanka, the rest of his children and maybe even his ex-wives could be deposed. not to mention, the growing list of women who now say trump kissed them or put his hand up their skirt without consent. the republican nominee continues to suggest he's been a victim of libel. what's still unclear is if trump realizes how much a lawsuit could expose about his business and personal life. >> these false attacks are absolutely hurtful. to be lied about, to be slandered, to be smeared so publicly, and before your family that you love is very painful. >> reporter: painful, but with a lawsuit, the burden would be on
donald trump to prove all the claims against him are false. randi kaye, cnn, florida. lot to discuss. joining me now, senior legal analyst and former federal prosecutor jeffrey toobin. trump's claim that he's going to sue the women who have made accusations against him, that he's going to sue all of them, how hard is a case like that? >> it's very hard in the united states for any sort of public figure to win a libel or defamation case because he'd have to show one of two things. he'd have to show what's called -- he'd have to show either that the person who made the accusation or the newspaper knew it was false when they made it, or showed reckless disregard for whether it was true. now, reckless disregard means you made no effort to check it out and certainly when it comes to the "the new york times," they obviously made a greet deal of effort to check out every story they wrote about trump, so it really does seem literally impossible for him to win a lawsuit against "the new york times." it is, perhaps, somewhat more
possible against these women, but as randi pointed out in her story, if she were to bring such a lawsuit, his whole personal life would be open in discovery process. >> so in discovery. that means "the times" or these women's attorneys could essentially depose him about his entire history. his entire sexual history, everything. >> and, of course, the "access hollywood" tape would come in where he admitted making unwanted sexual advances. virtually sexual assaults on women which would be argued on the part of these defendants was proof that he had a propensity for doing this which would certainly help their case. >> over the weekend also, trump made the argument that essentially the press in the united states can say whatever they want and that he want, you know, libel and slander laws to look more like they do in the united kingdom where it's easier for people to get convictions. >> it is. it's different in several important ways. the most important way is that
in the united states, the plaintiff has the burden of showing that the story is false. in great britain, the publisher, the news organization, has the burden of showing that it's true. also what's different is that the loser pays the winner's attorneys fees. so it really raises the stakes for both sides. here, everybody pays their own attorney fees regardless of what happens, but the press is in a much more vulnerable position in great britain. >> is it just that the story is false or there has to be malice involved in the u.s.? >> in the u.s., no, i mean, they don't -- actual malice is a somewhat misleading term. it doesn't mean, like, hate. >> okay. >> it does mean a kind of recklessness. >> a reckless disregard. they didn't research it, they didn't look -- >> they didn't try. they didn't make any effort to check it out. usually what satisfies the actual malice standard is if you go to the subject of the story and say, is this true, will you respond to the allegations? clearly, "the new york times"
did this. all the newspapers and news organizations that have written about trump have gone to him for comment and that, alone, basically eliminates the possibility that trump could ever win one of these cases. >> any reporter can show the steps they went to to try to verify a story. whether or not there was actual verification, at least having made the effort is enough. >> this is one of the key differences between the united states and great britain. in great britain, that's not good enough to show you made a good faith effort to check it out. you can still lose a libel case in great britain. in united states if you the reporter show the steps you went through, show you made an effort to get comment, to check it out, you win. >> i see. >> and the other point he said several times is that he wants to change libel law in the united states. >> right. >> that's something the supreme court has done. starting in the 1964 case, "the new york times" against sullivan. i mean, these are laws that are set by the courts. not by the president. so barack obama, hillary clinton, donald trump, nobody
can -- no president can -- >> change it. >> only the courts. >> jeffrey toobin, thanks very much. coming up, at home with kellyanne conway. dana bash asks her how she feels about the candidate, and how he behaves on twitter. ggressive environment. we're not passive aggressive. hey, hey, hey, there are no bad suggestions here... no matter how lame they are. well said, ann. i've always admired how you just say what's in your head, without thinking. very brave. good point ted. you're living proof that looks aren't everything. thank you. welcome. so, fedex helped simplify our e-commerce business and this is not a passive aggressive environment. i just wanted to say, you guys are doing a great job. what's that supposed to mean? fedex. helping small business simplify e-commerce. (announcer vo) the new pixel phone by google. only on verizon. okay, google, show me korean restaurants in boulder? (google assistant) i found a few places. (announcer vo) the only network than can power the first phone with the new google assistant, unlimited photo storage, and a stunning vr experience. how is this possible?
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well, you've been watching this election closely, you've seen her on tv plenty of times. kellyanne conway is a pundit. you've heard about trump's refusal to release his taxes, and how in her words, at the time, built his business on the backs of the little guys. now he defend him on a daily basis, even when the going gets very, very tough. our chief political correspondent, dana bash, spent time with kellyanne conway at her home. take a look. >> reporter: morning at the conways. >> sweetheart, how's this? and which jacket? >> reporter: scrambling to get the kids ready for school. familiar chaos for any parent, though kellyanne conway is not any parent. >> kellyanne conway bluntly acknowledging the uphill climb. >> reporter: the mother of four young children is donald trump's campaign manager. on tv so much, explaining and defending her boss, "saturday night live" dedicated an entire bit to imagining her day off.
>> this is so weird. this is exactly the way the "snl" house looked. >> where's "walking on sunshine"? >> in my head. >> the pancakes are true to life. >> reporter: these days her mother, who moved in to help, makes the pancakes. conway's only been on the job since august. trump's third campaign manager, but the first woman ever to run a gop presidential race. >> i wasn't hired because of my gender, but it's a special responsibility. >> reporter: and often a difficult one. like this weekend, when trump went offscript, attacking the women who say he groped them. >> all of these liars will be sued after the election is over. >> do you just tear your hair out when you hear him say that? >> it's his campaign and candidacy and he has to feel comfortable with his voice. >> you're the campaign manager. do you feel comfortable with him saying that? >> i think trump is at his best when he talks about the issues.
>> reporter: translation, going off-message hurts his campaign. conway insists she's tough on him in private. >> i don't sugar coat it at all. >> give me an example miami donald trump and you're kellyanne conway and i say something that really makes you mad -- >> i told him yesterday, on the plane, you and i are going to fight for the next 17 days. and he said, why? and i said, because i know you're going to win. and that comment you just made sounds like you think you're going to lose. and we're going to argue about it until you win. >> and what's his response? >> he said, okay, honey, then we'll win. >> reporter: for a time after conway took over, trump was disciplined, but not anymore. especially on twitter. >> literally, people will seriously say, can't you delete his twitter app? >> that was actually one of my questions. >> of course. it's not for me to take away a grown man's twitter account. >> and i moved on her very heavily. >> reporter: when tape from 2005 came out of trump describing lewd behavior, conway canceled sunday tv appearances, but still helped with damage control. >> i felt like rapunzel in the
tower all weekend. and i told mr. trump in private what i've also said in public or a variation thereof. i found the comments to be horrible and indefensible. and he didn't ask anybody to defend them, by the way. >> did you consider quitting? >> i did not. >> reporter: she said she thought his apology was earnest. >> the women who have now come forward and said, it's not just talk. donald trump groped me. do you believe them? >> i believe -- donald trump has told me and his family and the rest of america now that none of this is true, these are lies and fabrications. they're all made up. and i think that it's not for me to judge what those women believe. i have not talked to them. i've talked to him. >> reporter: she was raised in new jersey by a single mom, aunts, and grandmother, all women, as a political pollster, she chose to work in what she calls a man's world, especially as a republican. she recalled a potential client, a man, asking how she'd balance kids and work. >> it was just like, i hope you
ask all the male consultants, are you going to give up your wicked golf game and your mistresses, because they seem really, really busy, too. >> reporter: still, like most working moms, time with her kids is precious. the question is whether she'll have more time in two weeks, after election day. when she was hired the august, she told trump he was losing, but still could win. >> do you think at this point, it is still possible to win? >> it is still possible to win. >> probable? >> i think that we have got a very good chance of winning. >> and dana bash joins me now. what a lot of peel say about kellyanne conway, is that she is an expert on speaking to women voters and that's always been sort of her calling card. it's got to be a -- i don't know what the adjective would be, but it's an interesting position she now finds herself in. >> frustration, and i think maybe the ultimate irony that she is a pollster, but she has sort of found a niche in not just working for political
operatives or political campaigns and candidates, but for corporate america, explaining, using her experience and in data, explaining how to reach women, that she is working for a candidate, who has such a deficit with women. i asked her that question. and her answer was, well, in this stage of the game, it's too late. and i said, you mean, you should have been hired earlier? and she said, no, no, i don't mean that. but when she goes in and talks to clients, not donald trump, and corporate leaders who are not donald trump, she says she has like sort of a long-term explanation for how to talk to women. and that's certainly not a playbook she can follow when she's the donald trump's campaign manager. >> fascinating. i can't believe the staircase is the exact same in that "saturday night live" skit. >> i said to her, did they come in her and scout that out? and she said no. >> and i like her kids like "hamilton." >> coming up, donald trump, as you've seen, said he's going to sue the women who came forward and said he allegedly groped them.
we'll talk to someone who knows what it's like to be sued by donald trump, a former miss usa pageant who said the pageant was rigged and was sued for $10 million. she lost her lawsuit -- donald trump won the lawsuit against her. i speak with her in the next hour of "360." oh no, that looks gross whoa, twhat is that? try it. you gotta try it, it's terrible. i don't wanna try it if it's terrible. it's like mango chutney and burnt hair. no thank you, i have a very sensitive palate. just try it! guys, i think we should hurry up.
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widening as i speak, with new names added on like a traffic lineup in manhattan. there's still no indication that donald trump is anywhere near to making one of the key decisions of his presidency, who will serve as his chief diplomat. vice president-elect mike pence ran through some of the top contenders yesterday. >> i think everyone that he's talked to and has been talked about, whether it be a rudy giuliani or mitt romney or general petraeus or senator corker or john bolten, and others, bring extraordinary background and qualities to this. >> nbc news reports that several new names have been added to that list, even if they remain outside contenders. the associated press, meanwhile, is reporting that prospects of rudy giuliani and mitt romney, they say, are fading. the new names include jon huntsman, who was critical of trump during the campaign, but who wasn't also reportedly in the mix, ceo of exxonmobil, rex
>> the bulk of the time was with the president-elect, donald trump. i found it an extremely interesting conversation. and to be continued. and i'm just going to leave it at that. >> for the latest on the transition, i'm joined by nbc's kristen welker. i don't know what's going on. all i know, kristen, the list gets longer. the ones that came to the vineyard earlier aren't getting much good time out of this. it must be very frustrating for rudy giuliani, for mitt romney, and the rest. your thoughts? what do you know? >> reporter: you can only imagine. of course, you had mitt romney dining with malpresident-elect trump last week. look, here's how to think about where things stand right now in terms of this race for the secretary of state. you have rudy giuliani and mitt romney who were really the two top contenders. but chris, as we've been reporting, trump world was so deeply divided over these two top contenders, a lot of people saw rudy giuliani as a lightning rod, too much of a loyalist and an insider.
too many people thought that mitt romney has been too sharply critical of donald trump during the campaign. so that's why you're starting to see those two contenders start to fall out of favor and the reason why president-elect donald trump is exploring new options, including jon huntsman. someone who was also critical of him, but of course, he's the former ambassador to china. interesting given that you have trump making that controversial phone call with taiwan. my sources telling me that huntsman didn't advise him prior to that call. but at the same time, huntsman's been supportive of the fact that he made it, saying that it could be a smart foreign policy decision, a warning to china, making it very clear that he's going to be tough with them. of course, a lot of critics on that front as well. and rex tillerson, the ceo of exxonmobil. he's going to be here tomorrow. but at this point in time, chris, huntsman and tillerson haven't met with trump, so they're not serious contenders yet. i think the names to really be focused on, petraeus, we know that donald trump felt very good about that meeting and as you
federal agencies. armstrong williams said, dr. carson feels he has no government experience, he's never run a federal agency. this is honesty. the last thing he would want to do is take a position that would cripple the presidency. you don't get honesty like that very often. when asked what made him qualify for the job at hud, dr. carson said this. >> i grew up in the inner city and have spent a lot of time there and have dealt with a lot of patients from that area. and recognize that we cannot have a strong nation if we have weak inner cities. >> well, during the 2016 republican primaries, carson's background in some of his past statements about his childhood came under fire from, guess who, donald trump. let's watch. >> he said that he's pathological and that he's got, basically, pathological disease. i don't want a person that's got pathological disease. i don't want it. at a fairly young age, 14, 15 years old. i didn't. i didn't.
he took a knife and he went after a friend and he lunged, he lunged that knife into the stomach of his friend. but lo and behold, it hit the belt! it hit the belt! and the knife broke. give me a break. if you try and hit the mother over the head with a hammer, your poll numbers go up. i never saw anything like it. this is the only election in history where you're better off if you stab somebody. what are we coming to. >> showmanship matters. >> joining me right now, a "washington post" callum, msnbc political analyst, eugene robinson. i read your columns. and former senior strategist to rick santorum's presidential campaign, john brabender. let's talk about this, first of all, secretary of state really matters. let's talk about that. >> it does. >> i sometimes think he's auditioning for looks, appearances, who's going to look
right as my guy. bring mitt romney in, he seems very presidential, and he didn't really like him, apparently. and kellyanne conway seems to have some power. >> she apparently does. she spouts off and things either happen or don't happen. look, let's, for a change, let's take a slightly more charitable view. i hope he takes his time, actually. this is a man who's starting from zero on foreign policy. got no foreign policy experience, doesn't know anything about diplomat. the history of our relations with any country. he just don't know what's happening. >> you mean pakistan has a rivalry with india? you mean taiwan is an issue with china? >> yeah, exactly. so, when these people who do have some experience, i'm putting rudy giuliani aside, but mitt romney and general petraeus and others come in, jon huntsman, when he does come in, and they say, you know, this is my view, i hope he listens. i hope he's listening and considering and trying to figure out what kind of foreign policy
such bizarre directions. he's got john bolton, a neocon, all the way, a hawk, and goes all the way over to somebody else who seems like they don't have a foreign policy. how do you bring a neo conn -- does he know the difference between the two of them? >> i think he probably knows the difference, maybe not in detail, but you listen to these people. >> we were talking about mitt romn romney. mitt romney was so critical of a muslim ban. >> someone told me he would never take the job as long as there was a muslim ban in the works, because he morally opposed it. >> exactly. even if you call it something else, if it's really a muslim ban, i don't see how -- >> if you look what he's doing, he's not hiring by any logic, he's doing it by skill set. they have different skill sets. i think that's what he sees. the one thing all these people have in common, they're not somebody who's going to say, yes, sir. >> why would he consider a guy like huntsman, who was named ambassador to china by president obama, and then took the job.
makes a good case. >> like you, i've known ben carson. i didn't know his political views. a brilliant pediatric neurosurgeon, one of the best of his times. i think he has insane political views. and i would really worry about what he would try to implement as secretary of any department. >> we will see. over the weekend, a little light heartedness, "saturday night live" did it again, they targeted trump's transition effort. let's watch them. >> next i'm going to do what i promised my whole campaign and i'm going to build that swamp. >> don't you mean drain the swamp and build the wall? >> no, that's too many things. just smoosh them together. smoosh! smoosh! >> well, once again, trump didn't like it. he tweeted an aggressive reaction to the show. just tried watching "saturday night live," unwatchable!
totally bias! not funny. and the baldwin impersonation just can't get any worse. sad. today trump tweeted in defense of his twitter habit. he wrote, if the press would cover me accurately and honorably, i would have far less reason to tweet. sadly, i don't know if that will happen. john brabender, we are in for a tweeting president. >> i think that's wrong. of all the things he's done recently, to tweet about china makes no sense whatsoever. i think his picks are great, i think he's doing a lot of things great with transition. i wish someone would take that thing away from him. >> you would have to sleep with him to do it. he does it at 5:00 in the morning. >> i'm just saying, it doesn't help. >> let's talk about a real thing. ronald reagan succeed eed as a president because he made a choice to pick a really serious chief of staff, who was willing to say, mr. president, that's not a smart thing to do this week. focus on the economy, on job, on cutting taxes and stay away from
politics. whether you're a big progressive or not, you don't want a president of the united states starting wars on his watch. >> i think we can all agree. >> he has to be careful, because other countries are paying attention. they'll take it seriously. >> they don't know him like we do. anyway, please, when you hear our president talk, don't take it literally. >> well, see, that's a problem. >> can you translate into portuguese. >> might be brilliance in there. >> there is a problem. >> coming up, trump's call with a leader of taiwan wasn't the spur of the moment congratulations call he made it out to be. turns out it was long planned. this is a serious problem. could be an opening gambit in a major shift in strategy over how we deal with china, probably the most important relationship we've got in the world right now. plus, joe biden moments ago said he'll run for president in 2020. we'll get the latest on that in just a moment. we'll see what that means. this is "hardball," the place for politics. world ugly and messy.
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just moments ago, vice president joe biden was up on capitol hill and said he will run for president in 2020. nbc's kelly o'donnell was with the vice president and joins us now. >> okay, kelly, for real, for fun, for what? >> reporter: that's what we're trying to figure out. the vice president was here presiding over the senate while a bill that has now been named in the honor of his son, beau, who died of cancer, a cancer-related treatment bill, so he was here and it was sort of an emotional setting. he came off the senate floor, a small group of us were talking to him, asking him about what did this mean and so forth. i said, you know, these are the final days of your time in office, did that add to the emotion? and he began talking about what it means for him in the senate. and he said, i'm going to run again, and we actually laughed, assuming he was teasing, thinking that his career in public life had come to an end. i'll read exactly what he said. he said, i love this place.
there was a question, are you going to run again? he said, yeah, i am going to run, in 2020. for what, the question. he said, for president. what the hell, man. and i said, mr. vice president, we're going to run with that if you drop something with that. okay, go ahead. circled back around again, mr. vice president, were you kidding? his answer was this. first of all, he paused for four long seconds as he thought about what he was going to say. "i'm not committing to not running. i'm not committing to anything p p. i learned a long time ago that fate has a strange way of intervening." chris, as you understand in the senate, there are places where no cameras were committed. so i recorded the audio on my iphone and i believe we have a clip of that so you can hear it and see what you think based on his voice. >> i'm going to run in 2020. so -- >> for what? >> for president. [ laughter ] >> so, what the hell, man. anyway.
>> we're going to run with that, sir, you know, if you drop that. >> that's okay. that's okay. >> just to be clear, were you kidding about running for president in 2020? >> i'm just, i'm not committing not to run. i'm not committing to anything. i learned a long time ago, fate has a strange way of intervening. >> fate has a strange way of intervening. he's not going to claim he's not going to run. it's open to possibility. he seems like he wants us to think he might run. >> that was clearly my impression. his body language, i was looking him right in the eye. he understood, when i said, mr. vice president, we're going to run with that, meaning, if you're messing around having fun, this is going to be a headline, so please think about that. and my sense is that he wants to keep that door open. now, he's 74 years old now. now the facts of the election have played out, it's not even a month since the election. there is, i think, in a world if hillary clinton had been president, certainly he would not have challenged her for re-election, but now with donald
trump a republican, about to take office, might he reconsider it? so, it is tantalizing delicious for those of us who like politics and have watched biden's long time in public life and how passionate he is about it. we also saw that he really struggled mightily about the decision not to run in the primary against hillary clinton and bernie sanders, and it had a great deal to do with the loss of his son and the healing his family needed. he was teary-eyed talking about beau with us just a short time ago. so my takeaway is that he wasn't kidding. it's not that commitment to run, but he wanted us to know, he has not closed that door. that was my sense of it, standing right next to him. >> you know what would be great, kelly, if they would take a poll in the next couple of weeks, some big pollster, gallup or somebody else, and asked people who might run, who should run, i bet you he leads the pack and that would be a nice present for joe biden. i want to see where it plays on the front page tomorrow. top of the fold or bottom of the
fold. we'll see. we'll be right back after this. then she came to louisiana as a slave. i became curious where in africa she was from. so i took the ancestry dna test to find out more about my african roots. the ancestry dna results were really specific. they told me all of these places in west africa. i feel really proud of my lineage, and i feel really proud of my ancestry. ancestry has many paths to discovering your story, get started for free at ancestry.com [burke] hot dog. seen it. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪
this was a courtesy call. the democratically elected president of taiwan called to congratulate the president-elect. -- >> so nothing new should be read into it? >> well, i don't think so. i think i would just say to our counterparts in china that this was, this was a moment of courtesy, the president-elect talked to president tsai two weeks ago in the same manner. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was vice president-elect mike pence yesterday on "meet the press." he was downplaying, of course, a telephone conversation we're all talking about now between president-elect donald trump and the president of taiwan, in what is being described as a breach of diplomatic protocol. it's always dangerous with the chinese. it's not about matters, it's about war.
"the washington post" reported that the call was an intentionally provocative move and was the product of months of new strategy with taiwan. chinese considers taiwan to be part of china. trump is now the first u.s. president to have spoken with the taiwanese leaders ever since way back when in the '70s. china responded -- '79, it was -- by calling the conversation a petty move. but trump defended himself and the phone call in a flurry of tweets over the weekend, saying the president of taiwan called me today to wish me congratulations on winning the presidency. thank you. and then he goes, interesting how the united states sells taiwan billions of dollars of military equipment, but i should not accept a congratulatory call. did china ask us if it was okay to devalue their currency, making it hard for their companies to compete, heavily tax their products going into our country. the u.s. doesn't tax them, or to build a massive military complex in the middle of the south china
sea. i don't think so. that's trump. rising the whole thing up. andy kard was white house chief of staff around j. bush and andrea, thank you. we've avoided fighting with russia since the cold war start going. and we've also voided being too menacing towards china, because it's a big country with a lot of people. and we saw what happened in the korean war, where we just couldn't match their numbers. that they're willing to throw into combat. so we've tried to avoid that. are we avoiding trouble with china right now or looking for it? >> i think we're looking a bigger deal out of this than we should. and i don't think it was wrong for president-elect trump to talk to the president of taiwan. but the united states does not recognize taiwan the way we recognize china with two systems. one china, two systems. that's been a very delicate balance for a very long time. i'm not sure that
president-elect trump understand that balance in the conversation that he had. but i don't fault him for accepting the phone call. and yes, i'm sure it was a contrived phone call. i'm sure that it was set up, but -- >> he wasn't being punked. >> but there should be recognition. we made a commitment to taiwan a very long time ago. we do offer some protection to them. and we do have a relationship with them. but it's a relationship that is not meant to offense china. and that's a diplomatic balance. so this is unusual diplomacy. i had the privilege of representing the president of the united states at the president's inauguration in taiwan. i did not represent the people of the united states or represent the united states government p government, i represented the president. and that is a balance that has been such that we've maintained a good relationship with beijing and with taipei, and is not an easy thing to do. so words matter and i always tell the president, or a
candidate for president, taste your words before you spit them out. the diplomats help you taste those words. >> anyway, i always wonder, what speed does china move at? do they get roused up or think long term, make decisions and act long-term and don't worry about these little flea-flicker things like a phone call. >> it's a little of both. they're looking at a long game here and have been studying trump for years and have been trying to figure out what kind of leader would he be should he win. and so, they will continue to do that. and look at -- look far into the future, at the relationship with the united states, that they expect to have 30 years from now, when they see themselves as our full military and economic peer, not only in the pacific, but in the world. and are ready to challenge the united states much more frontally, three decades from now. they don't want to do that now. but, on the flea-flicker point, yeah, this really ticked them
off. and they expressed that first, i thought, very sort of amusingly to president obama, their first call was to the white house, saying, hey, how come you can't keep your guy in line here. of course, obama had nothing to do with it, whatsoever. but in the chinese way of thinking, obama's the head of state. he should be able to -- >> do you think somebody in the media that has a big name, today's walter lipman or whoever that might be, should put out a column around the world, an apb, like what the police puts out, don't take what trump says seriously for a few months, because it isn't that serious. >> trump has tried to do that himself. >> corey lewandowski over the weekend said, don't take him literally. you in the press take him literally. it's not fair. >> what are we supposed to do? >> you've got a word processor, take notes, and go with words. >> it's a big challenge. it will be a challenge for everyone who is working around donald trump. but i also think that he's
reflecting what's happening in the world. we are a world without discipline right now when it comes to war. >> white house press secretary josh earnest was asked about that phone call today. here's what trump had to say. >> i think it's hard to determine exactly what the aim was of the president-elect, and the vice president-elect and his campaign manager were, with when asked about this over the weekend, were told that this was a courtesy call and that the president-elect was merely returning that call. "the washington post" today tells a different story with sop trump aides indicating that this was a long-planned call and that this is part of a broader strategic effort. it's unclear exactly what the strategic effort is, what the aim of this strategic effort is, and it's unclear what exactly potential benefit could be experienced by the united
states, china, or taiwan, but i'll leave that to them to explain. >> i've got to ask you something now that i've got you here, andy kard, i like to grab people. andy kard, what happened to the republican party in new england? i was counting the senators from new england anymore that are republican, you've got susan collins left. and all of the states are women -- >> great governors, charlie baker in massachusetts, chris sununu coming in in new hampshire. >> okay, okay, what happened to the republican representation in the united states senate from new england? it's gone! >> we need more of it, yes, i admit that. >> what happened? >> well, the republican party has got to get back -- >> it's moved south. >> -- where it's an inclusive party rather than an exclusive party. and donald trump's victory actually proved to open some doors that hadn't been opened for a long time. if you look across the nation, he attracted people that haven't been part of the republican establishment for a long time and got engaged. that will help to redefine the
party. the most popular governor in the united states today happens to be charlie baker, a republican governor in massachusetts. >> i thought you were going to be governor. >> you were almost alone. >> andy kard, who had the distinction of being the chief of staff, which is one of the most important positions in american life with president bush, the second. andy, thanks for coming. and anne gearan, thank you. where republicans and democrats can work together. this is my dream. i think there are things like infrastructure and things like that that they can actually do together. after the bitter campaign, what issues can they work together on? this is "hardball," the place for politics.
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i'm milissa rehberger. here's what's happening. the death toll in friday night's warehouse fire has risen to 36. officials fear more bodies could be still in the rubble. tribal leaders are asking nosh-sue protesters to leaf the north dakota camp where they've been demonstrating for months now. the standing rock sioux successfully blocked the dakota access pipeline from being built near the reservation after the army corps of engineers denied a permit. drivers in portland, oregon, are taking caution, snow is creating a slippery situation in some areas. back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." in the aftermath of the most contentious elections in memory,
both sides of the aisle, democrats and republicans, are trying to meet somewhere in the middle. according to the pew research center, contempt for the opposing side has been on the rise. nearly 60% of republicans have a very unfavorable view of democrats. and nearly 55% of democrats have a very unfavorable view of republicans. the group no labels hopes to be the antidote to the rising partisan divide, by bringing republicans, democrats, and independents together to pass problem-solving legislation. over the weekend, there was a glimmer of hope in that regard, here's what the speaker of the house, paul ryan, and the democratic leader in the house, nancy pelosi, had to say. >> i really think we have a great opportunity in front of us to fix problems, produce results, and improve people's lives. that's why we're here in the first place. that's what's going to matter at the end of the day. >> we will engage where we can and we will oppose where we cannot. >> joining me now is adam kinzinger. he's a republican member of the
congress from illinois and he's with the no-labels problem solvers caucus. congressman, thank you for trying on this one. i would like to ask you about two issues that i think can be dealt with quickly. i want to go to the one that people think is complicated, i don't think it is. immigration. every country in the world has a work permit to work in that country. i can't go to swaziland tomorrow and just move in and start running a business. you've got to get permission. so you should have permission, no matter how liberal the system is. i think we have to all agree, every country has a right to limit to some extent who comes in the country. not to be discriminatory, just the numbers. and then you can say, if you're going to work here and not become a citizen, you need a work permit. if you want to become a citizen, that'll take longer. here's the question. why's it so hard. why can't they just do that? why do we have to talk about walls and deportation. the real problem is illegal hiring is in a magnet in this country for people to come here and once they're here, no one
wants to throw them out unless they're felons. so can't we agree? >> i think the way you phrased it and when you talk about kind of a comprehensive, it's gotten a bad wrap, but a comprehensive reform to immigration, including border security, making sure that's important, but figuring out what to do with those here and finding a system that works on the work side of it. it's an 80% american issue. so i think, you know, right now, it's kind of contention in terms of, we have to build a wall thing, and then, you know, was just contention on both sides. i think when it settles down and we kind of take a deep breath, that's an issue we can attack. but i think there's a lot of big issues we can attack first, and i think we're going to have a really good opportunity to do that. >> well, 12-foot walls lead to 13-foot ladders, right? >> yeah. >> so i don't think anybody thinks there's a wall high enough -- the chinese wall didn't stop anybody. let me ask you about this other one. i do think it comes down to hiring. people come here for a job, if you can get one legally. my job is, everybody that's here now with work permits, no more
deportations except for felons, give people work permits. if they want to become a citizen, they've got to get in line behind people from poland and everyone else who wants to come here. that's my chris matthews theory. let's talk about infrastructure. we have an almost $20 trillion gdp. we're getting close to that range. what would we needle in terms of a real make america great infrastructure campaign? what would it take? >> i think you'll have to have a bipartisan buy-in on this. this is why it's so important to say, republicans, we took the chamber out here, we have the presidency now, we can't just focus on running only our agenda through. we're going to have to reach radio across the aisle. because on infrastructure, we can all agree that, you know, look, it's in the constitution that it's the role of the federal government to provide post offices and post roads, which is obviously infrastructure. the problem is, how do we pay for it? and i think there's really ways to get this done, whether it's bringing some of the corporate profits that are parked overseas and taxing them at a lower rate, or even things like having grown up discussions about how we're paying for that infrastructure in terms of revenue collection.
i think if we get some courage out here, a lot of people have courage, but we're going to need some big courage to tackle these big issues and i think it can easily be done, we have to be willing to do it. >> how do you overcome the fact that democrats don't want to spend money and republicans aren't trusted to spend it. >> you have to be honest with the american people. so, you know, if, for instance, we have a program where we're spending money and need transparency to show where it is, i think we have to very aggressively try to get rid of -- >> i'm with you. >> yeah, and you have all of these different programs that are redundant. let's combine them together and make government effective and efficient and i think we'll earn the trust of the american people. >> people want to see what gets built, not just where you spent the money. the problem with the obama stimulus package, no one can think of what gets built. it gets peeed away, if you will, to use a bad phrase. up next, when we come back, the "hardball" roundtable will be here with the latest twists and
turns. and also, this joe biden for president thing that just started with kelly o'donnell, we have got to get to that, because he sounded serious. let's find out what's going on there. we'll be back with the roundtable. little dakota's nose was quivering in fear.
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jon huntsman. jay newton small and jeremy peters, a political reporter with "the new york times." speak with authority. who's got the best shot to be secretary of state at this hour? >> the best shot, it changes hour to hour. the trump camp is very much a camp divided at this point. there are the lines that have been drawn for the last couple of weeks, where -- >> you mean the factions? >> there are those who are pro-romney. those who think, give it to rudy, he's been a loyal supporter all along and adored by the grassroots. some want to see a military figure like a general, like general kelly in there, or the huntsman thing was curious to me today. because that to me showed that there is real division in the ranks. that didn't leak intentionally. that leaked accidentally. >> is that just to tick off huntsman -- tick off romney, because they hate each other. >> it's true. that would be the ultimate way to needle romney for not
supporting him. i assume this circle is widening because trump is not sold on any of the four people we were told were finalists. the longer it goes on, the less likely it is he goes to giuliani or romney. >> how about someone traditionally qualified? is there anybody on that list? >> huntsman was reasonably positive about trump, when most of the establishment republican was not. he was not a never-trumper. he spoke in a positive way about trump, early on, before he even started winning things. so while he wouldn't be a favorite of conservative republicans, maybe that gives him a little bit of traction. >> let's talk loyalty. huntsman was named ambassador to china, a hell of a post, by barack obama. he then quit the post and ran against barack obama. would you like that as a story line as someone who's applying for a job, jay? >> so are you saying that one of these guys are going to go ahead and challenge trump? >> no, but i wouldn't think he would have a loyalty reputation. >> well, look, he named nikki haley to his cabinet, who is a u.n. ambassador.
he was definitely a huge critic of donald trump's. so -- and there are -- and part of what he wants here, to some degree, is somebody who can bridge the establishment. somebody who can talk to both sides of the party. >> he wants someone who looks the party, too. >> boy, you are right where i'm at. i think this guy's appearances -- it's like, with all the women candidates, all very attractive. it's the way he looks at things. trump tower is gold. everything about his family is gold, and everything has to look right. >> these men they project strength and virility and especially -- >> swank. >> petraeus, i was told after he met with petraeus and the same was true of john kelly, he admires his appearance. to them, they embody what trump sees in a trump secretary of state. >> you know who's like this? you know who's like this? nixon. he was in love with john connelly, because he looked like secretary of the treasury. you're laughing at me! you think i'm off something here?
>> no! >> this is a television guy. >> he looks like a television guy. who looks like -- romney, huntsman. >> they look the part. anyway, let's talk about something. we all like uncle joe. joe biden said he's going to run for president in 2020. >> we all love joe biden, but this seems unlikely to me. >> i mean, 2020, he'll be 78 years old. that's got to be the person ever running for -- >> he'll just be beating the house leadership at the turn. because they're all older than him. clyburn's older than him, pelosi's older than him. they're all older than biden. >> really? >> don't argue with me. i just checked it, because they were taking heat in this case. 77, 76, 78. it's unbelievable. >> the democrats have to eventually move on to a new generation. >> when would that be? >> this might be the moment. >> maybe after a huge bruising
loss. >> i don't know. jeremy, who's going to be the next democratic nominee for president? >> i don't think it's going to be biden. something tells me tonight this was more about being caught up in the emotion of that moment. a bill that just passed that wa dedicated to his son and i think that could have gotten to him. >> and i think his son would have asked him to run. what a great guy. joe biden, i hope you take care of yourself. up next, these three will tell me something i don't know. ♪ that's it? yeah. ♪ everybody two seconds! ♪ "dear sebastian, after careful consideration of your application, it is with great pleasure that we offer our congratulations on your acceptance..." through the tuition assistance program, every day mcdonald's helps more people go to college. it's part of our commitment to being america's best first job. ♪ ♪ gaviscon is a proven heartburn remedy that gives you fast-acting, long-lasting relief. it immediately neutralizes acid
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well, it happened, north carolina governor pat mcccrory ended his campaign today and helped roy cooper get into the job. and we'll be right back.
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talked. i heard from both of their staffs when they do talk on the floor of the senate one thing they could always talk about was a mutual love of the nats. that's the one thing they bonded overall the way to the end. >> that's something i don't want to know. i'm just kidding. go ahead. >> talk of jon huntsman as secretary of state is probably not going to happen. the real talk is what jon huntsman might do in 2018 and may primary orrin hatch. >> if hatch runs again? >> that's what some people are speculating, absolutely. he would be a really strong contender. hatch is beloved in utah but he's getting up there in age. >> i think beloved may be overstating. >> you're biased. >> susan, thank you, dear. you match up with the -- what are these flowers? >> poinsettias. >> and jeremy peters and jay, my paul. when we return, a shameless display by the people vying to be picked by trump for any job.
you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. [burke] at farmers, we've seen almost everything, so we know how to cover almost anything. even a rodent ride-along. [dad] alright, buddy, don't forget anything! [kid] i won't, dad... [captain rod] happy tuesday morning! captain rod here. it's pretty hairy out on the interstate.traffic is literally crawling, but there is some movement on the eastside overpass. getting word of another collision. [burke] it happened. december 14th, 2015. and we covered it. talk to farmers. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪
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>> the election is being rigged by corrupt media, pushing completely false allegations and outright lies in an effort to elect her president. >> reporter: donald trump trailing in the polls and plagued by allegations of sexual misconduct is falling back on his favorite safety net. >> the election is rigged. it's rigged like you've never seen before. the investigation of hillary clinton was rigged. it's all rigged. it's all rigged. >> the gop nominee now insisting there's a monumental conspiracy to rig the entire election against him. trump tweeting today, "of course there is large-scale voter fraud happening on and before election day. why do republican leaders deny what is going on? so naive." but trump's claims aren't true. there's no evidence of widespread voter fraud. and the candidate's claims are putting election officials, even those in his own party, on edge.
today, ohio's secretary of state, a republican, who plans to vote for trump, blasted the candidate's claims as reckless. >> it's irresponsible. he should focus on issues that matter to people. i can reassure donald trump, i am in charge of elections in ohio and they're not going to be rigged. i'll make sure of that. >> reporter: while hillary clinton's running mate warns that trump's claims are the protests of a sore loser. >> it's an insult to american voters and it's an insult to county registrars to say that america doesn't know how to run an election. we know how to run an election. and this is clearly a guy who feels like he's losing and is trying to whine in advance. >> reporter: as trump's running mate, indiana governor, mike pence, says he will accept the results on november 8th -- >> as donald trump said in that first debate and i'll say to you again today, we're going to accept the will of the american people. >> reporter: -- even he is warning about voter fraud on the campaign trail today. >> voter fraud cannot be tolerated by anyone in this nation, because it disenfranchises republicans,
independents, democrats, liberals, and conservatives. >> reporter: in fact, a loyola law school professor found just 31 potential instances of voter impersonation out of more than 1 billion ballots cast from 2000 to 2014. >> sara murray joins us now. what more did trump say tonight about his claims of a rigged election? >> reporter: well, he kept up his claim of this rigged election and pointed to people who are dead, who are still on the voter rolls. he pointed to a study that showed some non-citizens may be voting in american elections. but anderson, i think the thing that's really important here is that, yes, in an election, there will be instances of voter fraud. but the people who have studied this have found that these instances are minuscule and nobody who has studied this has come out and said that there is widespread, systemic voter fraud and no one has said that this is
the kind of thing that undermines the integrity of our american elections. >> all right, sara murray, thanks very much if hillary clinton was off the campaign trail today, doing debate prep. as you heard, though, donald trump was hitting her hard on her state department e-mails and he got powerful new ammunition today. a new release from the fbi investigation, that documented a dispute between patrick kennedy, a top state department official, and the fbi. the fbi claiming that he pressured them to change certain e-mails from classified to unclassified. more on that now and the larger state of the campaign from cnn's jeff zeleny. >> reporter: hillary clinton is shoring up blue states and exploring red states. trying to keep donald trump from bouncing back. but for yet another day, she's off the campaign trail, preparing for her final debate wednesday. she's outsourcing her work to other democrats, like elizabeth warren and bernie sanders. >> a selfish little sleaze ball. a man who will never be president of the united states. >> not only is he going to lose this election, but he and his billionaire friends are going to start paying their fair share of
taxes. >> reporter: tonight, all eyes on arizona. a once-reliable republican state that may suddenly be up for grabs. the clinton campaign making new investments and sending one of its biggest weapons, michelle obama. three weeks before election day, clinton is in the driver's seat, but still facing fallout over the fbi investigation into her e-mail server. the fbi today denying a quid pro quo in its fight with the state department over the classification of e-mail on clinton's private server. a newly released document suggests a top state department official pressured the fbi to declassify certain e-mails, possibly in exchange for offering to help station fbi agents overseas. the fbi and the state department deny that any arrangement actually took place. but congressional republicans seized on it as one more clinton controversy. speaker paul ryan saying in a statement, these documents further demonstrate secretary clinton's complete disregard for properly handling classified information.
the bank, new figures show, while trump had only half that. and jeff join us now. what can you tell us about the clinton strategy for the swing states moving forward? >> reporter: well, anderson, that $152 million in the bank is really going to allow them to expand and try some other places. arizona is at the center of that list. they have been looking at it for a few weeks, but the decision to send michelle obama there on thursday, who's arguably the most popular democrat and probably the most popular politician of either party, they're sending her there thursday. that's a sign they can win arizona. a lot of top republicans are saying that donald trump simply does not have the ground work there. so many money actually matters and pays off. the clinton campaign, also, is starting to spend more money in states with down-ballot races. focusing on indiana and missouri. $1 million combined there. so they are having the luxury here of expanding into red states.
but some of this is bluster, some of it is not. we'll find out in the coming days which is which here. they're still counting on a strong debate performance on wednesday to put her over the top. but anderson, the reason it matters now, colorado, other states are starting vote by mail. all the ballots went out today. the clinton campaign trying to freeze this race in place, get all those ballots in case something should shake out, like all those controversies still hanging over her head. >> jeff zeleny, appreciate the reporting. with election day getting closer, polling starts snapping into focus as you be decided voters make up their minds. tonight, four new national polls from abc, "the washington post," nbc news, "the wall street journal," and monmouth university. they show clinton with anywhere from a 4-point lead to a 12-point lead over donald trump. and there are new battleground polls out there, some showing a tighter race than that. all of them factors into the race for 270 electoral votes. cnn's john king breaks it down by the numbers. >> some very competitive states
still on the map. a chance still to change the race. look at north carolina. always competitive, 48 for clinton. 47 for trump. this one, competitive in '08 and in 2012. looks like it will be competitive to the end. slight clinton lead there, but really that's a virtual tie, a statistical dead heat. out in nevada, key to both obama victories. but 46 for clinton, 47 for trump. gary johnson gets 7. that's a statistical tie. a very close race in another battleground state. and here's one reason nevada is so close. the latino vote, critical to both big obama wins. 10% is going to third party candidates, the libertarian, gary johnson. clinton still has a big lead over donald trump, but she would love some of those votes to come them to the democrats. let's move to the midwest, battleground, ohio, a critical state, absolutely must-win for donald trump. and he's already tweeted how happy he is with these results. 48 for trump, 44 for clinton. johnson and stein at the bottom of the pack in battleground ohio. the clinton campaign says they're still in play in ohio,
but donald trump after the last two weeks of bad news in the lead in that battleground state. why is that happening? let's take a quick look. the education gap we've seen throughout the campaign continues. white voters with no college degree, overwhelmingly for donald trump. wow, look at that margin. white voters, no college degree, the foundation of trump's support. but white voters with a college degree, in all three of these battleground states, clinton wins. critical, because mitt romney won this constituency in 2012. this is a very important part of her being more competitive in the more conservative states, leading among white voters who have a college degree. quickly on the issues, let's go through these. in all three of these battleground states, she wins. if the question is, who's best on foreign policy? who is the better temperament to be president? who would be the better commander in chief? but on issue number one, the economy, donald trump gets the edge in all three states. and despite all these allegations against donald trump, despite hearing him on tape talking about groping women, donald trump still viewed
as more honest and trustworthy than secretary clinton. three tight races in three battleground states. how does that affect the map that matters most? well, let's go to where we now stand heading into the election. as we have it now, clinton would win. the gold states are the battleground states. guess what, the gold states are the three we just went through, with north carolina, ohio, and nevada. so what does that tell you? they're important states, but clinton can win the presidency without them. donald trump absolutely needs at least those two. there's no way to get donald trump to 270 without ohio and north carolina. he would also still need florida and then still need more. but the benefit for clinton here is, she would like these states. she still thinks she's competitive in these states, but she can win without them. here's the challenge for donald trump. wednesday's debate is absolutely critical. the map is heavily tilting her way. he has to hold this, but he also needs a strong debate performance to move this one his way. again, he's a little behind right now. he needs to move this one this way, if he can. still a little behind there. look, that would get him into play. still wouldn't get him to the
finish line. donald trump, absolutely, would have to win florida and even if he did, he'd have to turn something blue red. but those three races being so competitive tell you, map's tilting in clinton's direction. the debate does offer trump a chance, if he can seize it, to maybe make the last couple of weeks a little interesting. >> no doubt. going to be very interesting, either way. john king, thanks so much. just ahead, some of the most important moments from my conversation with melania trump. also this -- >> this has been an effort with much international support, a lot of coalition planning -- [ gunfire ] >> dramatic moments in the battle for mosul. cnn's nick paton walsh is there. we'll get the latest from him as some 50,000 troops with u.s. advisers help take on isis and drive them out of the last big city they hold and have been terrorizing month after month. recently, a 1954 mercedes-benz grand prix race car made history when it sold for a record price of just under $30 million. and now, another mercedes-benz makes history selling at just over $30,000.
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trump's "access hollywood" tape, this would have been getting a lot more attention. >> i guess, but it's one of these stories -- one of my clients was john glenn, the legendary astronaut, war hero, senator. he had a word for stories like this, migo, my eyes glaze over. they had to pay me to read this stuff. it's two bureaucrats fighting over some classification stuff that -- i don't care! if i don't care, i have a hard time believing voters do. >> paul ryan came out with a wonderful statement on this. this is another example of her showing an absolute complete disregard for classified information. and this is evidence of the fact that there was quid pro quo going on. and her not being able to understand what's classified and what's not. and she clearly mishandled this information. and you're talking about your eyes glagz over. it's because the volume of the what she mishandled evidence in her e-mails is so vast. we saw it earlier, saw it with the clinton foundation in the
state department. we saw clear evidence of pay-for-play and conflicts of interest. now we're seeing quid pro quo with classified information. people should care about this. this is important. this is classified information. this is important. >> corrine? >> look, we keep talking about this and at the end of the day, the fbi did a thorough investigation and they said there was no criminal intent and nothing criminal was done. and so even i -- i was trying to also kind of get more from this e-mail. and i actually -- there was no quid pro quo. it was just two -- just like paul said. it's two bureaucrats just going -- just talking and going back and forth. but there was no quid pro quo actually in this e-mail. >> anderson, let's not kid ourselves, okay? the undersecretary of state negotiated with the fbi in a quid pro quo in the e-mail and what it said, and he filed a form 302, which is what they file, their notes from this investigation, and they said, it's very simple, if you declassify this e-mail so it's hidden from the public, the state department will give you
overseas billets for your fbi agents so they can go work overseas. when that was originally denied, the assistant secretary, undersecretary, said, i would like to take it up the chain to the fbi. who else can i talk to? three separate occasions. whether or not the quid pro quo ever happened is irrelevant. potentially asking for the quid pro quo is a felony. and we've seen the house members now ask for the immediate resignation of patrick henry from the state department and instead what we see is politics as usual, d.c. insiders get protected. what would happen to the regular person doesn't happen to me. and hillary clinton should step forward right now and say, if this is the case, unless they are accusing an fbi agent of lying on form 302, which no one is doing, then we know unequivocally that this was an attempted quid pro quo, and that alone is a felony. >> maggie, do you see hillary clinton actually talking about this or just trying to run out the clock? >> i think she's going to try to run out the clock, which is what she's basically been doing. she's essentially been running -- to say it's a non-campaign is not quite right, but she's been saying as little
a little nerdy on this panel. you wouldn't be on this panel if you weren't kind of nerdy. paul, identify got to ask you, it was referenced in the last hour, your name was on one of the leaked e-mails from wikileaks, in 2008, a chain about polling about obama's past drug use -- >> obama loyalists. this was a group i was a part of that was watching the hillary/barack death march and really worried that the nominee would be so badly damaged that they wouldn't win. i was part of a group, the founder was from moveon, he was very pro-obama. the pollster was pro-obama. the people who did the research, that was a pro-obama firm. it wasn't some clinton deal. there were some clinton people involved, some obama people involved. but every campaign and every pac tests their own strengths and weaknesses.
plenty of things to talk about with hillary clinton and all we're hearing from this is attacks on donald trump. there's nothing from the democrat side. nothing from over there about what is hillary clinton going to do to -- >> because it does allow hillary clinton to essentially run out the clock. to just try to lay low, raise money, and prepare for the debate. >> not just the wikileaks, what we saw today with the freedom of information request from the fbi document that is her protective detail that was assigned to her is that they were treated so deplorably, they couldn't find senior staffers from the protective police department that's tasked with protecting the secretary of state to serve in that detail any longer. so what they found was a number of junior staffers, because she treated these people so badly. this is exactly consistent with what the secret service has said in the past. and we have a public face of hillary clinton and a private face of hillary clinton. this wasn't a leak, it was a transfer of information. >> i saw the folks who risked their lives to protect her and her husband and they're frs-class, terrific people. they don't say things of the sort that corey's suggesting or did i ever see hillary mistreat any of these heros who risked their lives to protect her.
it's a really unfair shot. but it's the sort of thing you get about hillary. and i'm not sure why. maybe it's a woman thing, so they have some need to make these accusations. i don't know. but i can tell you firsthand, at least my exposure, which was very close for a very long time, i never saw anything like it. >> this is what the fbi documents that were revealed today through the freedom of information about said. this wasn't me. this was the fbi documents who said, they couldn't not find senior staffers to serve on her protective detail. if you want to question the fbi, that's up to you. oom reporting what was released today. >> and this information is why she's doing her prevent defense. laying low, protecting her lead, and hoping, as maggie said to run out the clock in order to not have to answer these questions and hopefully in her
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as we've been talking about, donald trump is ramping up his claims that the election is rigged against him at his rallies and on twitter, he's hammering that message home. >> the election is being rigged by corrupt media, pushing false allegations and outright lies. the process is rigged. this whole election is being rigged. and remember this, it's a rigged election. because you have phony people coming up with phony allegations. >> we should point out, there's no evidence to support donald trump's allegations about a rigged election. over the weekend, republican leaders and election officials from both parties tried to counter his claims. it's not the first time that trump has embraced a conspiracy theory. some would say it's a culmination. here's dana bash. >> it looks to me like a rigged election. >> reporter: donald trump is now hitting this note hard and his chorus of surrogates singing backup. >> they are attempting to rig
this election. >> do you want to tell me that i think the election in philadelphia and chicago is going to be fair? i would have to be a moron to say that. >> there's no question that everything possible is being done to stop donald trump. >> reporter: it's not hard to see why trump's team is doing this. if he loses, he's laying the groundwork for blaming the political system he ran against since day one. he's also following a familiar pattern, peddling in conspiracy theories that don't have facts to back them up. remember, trump first stepped on the political stage five years ago, pushing the mother of all political conspiracies, questioning whether president obama was born in america. >> if he wasn't born in this country, it's one of the great scandals -- >> reporter: and as a candidate for president, he's promoted some doozies. like ted cruz's father being involved in president kennedy's assassination. >> his father was with lee harvey oswald prior to oswald being, you know, shot. i mean, the whole thing is ridiculous. what is the right prior to his
being shot and nobody even brings it up. >> reporter: many question whether clinton aide and friend vince foster really committed suicide. quote, there are people who continue to bring it up because they think it was absolutely a murder. i don't do that, because i don't think it's fair, he said. now trump is even throwing out that there that hillary clinton may even be on drugs, with zero evidence to prove it. >> at the beginning of her last debate, she was all pumped up at the beginning. and at the end, it was like, take me down. she could barely reach her car. so i think we should take a drug test. anyway, i'm willing to do it. >> reporter: trump's focus on what he calls a rigged system goes beyond unfounded allegations of widespread voter fraud. he also claims the press is in on it. >> the corporate media in our
country is no longer involved in journalism. they're a political special interest, no different than any lobbyist or other financial entity with a total political agenda and the agenda is not for you, it's for themselves. >> reporter: many trump supporters, like e.d. hollister, tell us they believe the system is rigged against their candidate. it's why they don't believe sexual assault allegations against trump. >> all of the media who's been holding back on a totally irrelevant issue. >> reporter: you think it's totally irrelevant? >> totally irrelevant. >> reporter: how come? >> because it's not the issues, national security, border security, foreign policy, obamacare. those are the issues. >> reporter: some trump conspiracies echo those seen on conservative sites like breitbart, whose executive chairman, steve bannon, is on leave to help run trump's campaign. it worked for trump to rally the base in the primaries, but the
general election, to be determined. dana bash, cnn, washington. >> there are signs that trump's claims about a rigged election are resonating with his supporters, setting off talk of rebellion in some crowds. we have a lot to discuss. joining us, david gergen. also with us, cnn senior political commentator, david axelrod. you can find his podcast on cnn.com. david axelrod, this message by donald trump, it certainly appeals to his core supporters, but what does that really do for him at this point? doesn't he need to expand his vote? women voters, young voters, minorities? >> this has been a dilemma for him for some time. he has a very committed base. when he said, i could shoot someone on fifth avenue and i wouldn't lose a vote, he was right. he has a base of followers who will follow him anywhere. but they aren't enough to win an election. and he has had real difficulty expanding beyond it. and he's been his own worst enemy in that regard. and particularly among these college educated white voters,
who he seems to be systemically driving away, and among them, women, most of all. so, i, you know, all of the things he's doing now seem designed to reinforce support that he already has, but not to build on it. >> david gergen, historically, have you ever seen anything like this? a presidential nominee calling the electoral process into question to this degree? >> no. we've never had anyone calling into question to this degree. we have had republican candidates in the last couple of elections, john mccain, most famously, called into question what a.c.o.r.n. was doing and how it might disrupt, he believed, his election. but this is very, very fundamental. and donald trump, once again, without evidence, is questioning the very fundamentals of how we elect people. it's not just one organization. he's saying the whole thing is fixed. and it's a fix between the media and democratic party. and i think what he's doing,
anderson, is preparing people for a loss. then he can say, you know, i didn't lose, the system was rigged. >> which goes against how every candidate, david axelrod, who's lost, generally says, okay, i lost with and i support the -- i support my opponent, we have to come together as a country. donald trump said he would do that during the first debate. but you wonder what his message, if he loses, is going to be? >> i look at donald trump and i see a guy who defines the world in terms of winners and losers. and he clearly sees himself on one side of that column. he is not someone who will accept a loss as legitimate. we saw this during the comment as we lost the iowa caucuses. he very quickly started talking about the fact that it was fixed, that it was rigged. so he is laying the groundwork for a loss. i don't know whether it's a
strategic decision or emotionally necessary for him, but the result of it is is that we're going to have a very ugly aftermath if he doesn't win this election, because a large number of voters who supported him are going to believe what they're saying and they're not going to accept the result. and i think that's very frightening for our democracy. >> david gerden, paul ryan spoke out about this weekend. our democracy relies on confidence in election results. could they not be just reckless but actually dangerous? >> they could be. i give credit to mike pence saying we're going to accept the results of this election, in contradiction to trump's suggestions here. but trump is calling for observers to be at the polling booth. and we already know some of those observers are basically saying, we're going to engage in racial profiling. we believe that basically blacks and minorities fix elections. they come out and vote when they shouldn't, and there are going to be muslims that are going to show up. and basically they're suggesting they may start harassing voters.
they could throw really monkey wrenches into this. anderson, it's also something that's very profound here. that the republican party for a variety of reasons is taking a conservative argument frequently now that the system is fixed. that essentially, inner cities in particular, there's massive a lot of fraud. the evidence does not support massive amounts of fraud. a professor at loyola has studied elections between 2000 and 2014. there were only 35 credible cases of minor fraud and they never threw any election. but when you start going down this road, you undermine the belief of voters that the election is fair and once that happens, the person who wins is branded as illegitimate. and that's what they're trying to do to hillary clinton now, so to make her illegitimate and frankly, it is encouraging people, i think -- i don't want to say encourage -- there are people who are following trump who now believe that she belongs in jail, not in the white house. and maybe somebody ought to take
her out. you hear those kind of loose comments and they're frightening. >> yeah. david axelrod, david gergen, guys, thank you very much. >> thank you. coming up, does melania trump also think the election is rigged? today, i asked her about that and about her husband's comments and all the women who have come forward to say that he touched them inappropriately. her thoughts, next. this just in, wendy's announces a new swiss jr. bacon cheeseburger as an option with the 4 for $4 for a limited time. with 4 nuggets, fries and a drink for just $4 the swiss jr. bacon cheeseburger. now back to america. every time i travel, it's the moments that are most rewarding. ♪ because if you let yourself embrace them, you'll never forget them. the new marriott portfolio of hotels now has 30 brands in over 110 countries. so no matter where you go, you are here.
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and as you can see from the tape, the cameras were not on, it was only a mike. and i wonder if they even knew that the mike was on. because they were kind of a boy talk. and he was lead on, like, egg on from the host to say dirty and bad stuff. >> you feel the host, billy bush, was sort of egging him on? >> yes. yes. >> is that language you had heard him use before? >> no. no, that's why i was surprised, because i said, like, i don't know that person that would talk that way. and that he would say that kind of a stuff in private. i heard many different stuff, boys talk. i -- the boys, the way they talk
when they grow up and they want to sometimes show each other, oh, this and that, and talking about the girls. but, yeah, i was surprised, of course. >> michelle obama, who you, i know, have spoken positively of in the past, she said last week about what your husband said on that tape, she said, this was not just a lewd conversation. this wasn't just locker room banter, this was a powerful individual speaking freely and openly about sexually predatory behavior and actually bragging about kissing and groping women. in terms of what he actually said on the tape, not saying he did it, but what he said, the behavior described to you, is that sexual assault? >> no, that's not sexual assault. he didn't say he did it. and i see many, many women coming to him and giving phone numbers and, you know, want to work for him or, inappropriate
stuff from women. and they know he's married. >> you've seen that? >> oh, yes, of course! it was in front of me. >> in front of you? >> in front of me. and i said, like, why -- why you need to give your number to my husband? i'm very strong. people didn't really know me. people think and talk about me like, oh, melania, oh, poor melania. don't feel sorry for me. don't feel sorry for me. i can handle everything. >> i know you want your voice to be heard on this. so a number of woman have come forward and made allegations against your husband. some of them go back more than 30 years. he has said they're lying. do you believe him? >> i believe my husband. i believe my husband. this was all organized from the opposition.
and with the details that they go -- did they ever check the background of these women? they don't have any facts. and even the story that came out in "people" magazine, the writer, she said that my husband took her to the room and started kissing her. she wrote in the same story about me, that she saw me on fifth avenue and i said to her, natasha, how come we don't see you anymore? i was never friendly to her. i would not recognize her. >> that never happened? >> never happened. that's why i sent them the letter. because it discredited her story. >> right, your lawyer as sent a letter to "people" magazine saying they have to retract. >> yes, because it was not true. so how we could -- how we could believe her? that never happened.
i was never friends with her. i saw her -- she interviewed us twice. she came to the wedding. and for that story. that's it. i would not recognize her on the street or ask her why we don't see her anymore. so that was another thing like, people come out, saying lies and not true stuff. >> we're three weeks to the election. if you could let the american people know one thing about your husband, what would it be? because right now, the latest polls show, i think, more than 60% of people believe your husband made some sort of unwanted advances. what do you want those people to know? what would you say to them? >> that my husband is kind and he's a gentleman and he would never do that. that everything was organized and put together to to hurt him, to hurt his candidates. >> organized by the opposition -- >> by the opposition, yes.
>> you mean, the media, clintons. >> yes. >> you think they're working together? >> yes, of course. >> well, the two men heard speaking on that now-infamous hollywood tape, one is running for president and the other got fired. billy bush is officially leaving nbc and the "today" show. he was suspended after the tape came out and after several deals of negotiations, the exit deal is done. his spokesman wouldn't comment on the terms of the deal. just ahead, inside the battle to retake mosul from isis. nick paton walsh is on the front lines. pcountries thatk mewe traveled,t what is your nationality and i would always answer hispanic. so when i got my ancestry dna results it was a shocker. i'm everything. i'm from all nations. i would look at forms now and wonder what do i mark? because i'm everything. and i marked other. discover the story only your dna can tell. order your kit now at ancestrydna.com.
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abdbloating?in? you may have ibs. ask your doctor if non-prescription ibgard is right for you. ibgard calms the angry gut. available at cvs, walgreens and rite aid. iraqi and kurdish forces are closing in on mosul. after months of planning, the offensive is now underway. isis made it clear that the battle ahead is going to be fierce. nick payton walsh was in the thick of it. >> this has been an effort with much international support, a lot of coalition manning, american airpower. >> that wasn't the worst of it, not even close. the report you're about to see contains graphic images, including the death of an isis suicide bomber. >> they have been waiting years to finally push through the
years and take on isis's brutality. when the day came it was a dusty slow grind. peshmerga into the desert to flank a main road to mosul. distinctive american vehicles. air strikes often hitting the places they were headed to first. hopes isis may not fight for the tiny settlements around mosul quickly dashed. this is the first village, they move down the road toward mosul, and encountering pretty heavy resistance, returning fire with what they have. often blunt and old. they want this over.
fast. suddenly, there is panic. they spot car, a suicide car bomb racing toward them, it's isis, one, two rockets try to hit it. a third is lucky. they push on toward the main prize, the road itself to mosul. flanked by all fires, lit by -- oil fires lit by isis, and air strikes piling in regardless. shells still landing near the peshmerga, a casualty taken away. down on the main objective, the road itself, isis send two car bombs and attacked from both sides. the iraqi military, too, at some point will have to push down here towards mosul.
this has been an effort with much international support. a lot of coalition planning, american air power. [ gunfire ] >> shut the doors. [ gunfire ] >> is this yours? [ gunfire ] >> stay in the car now! >> isis still everywhere, even in the hills. they give chase to one man, an isis fighter, he shoots at peshmerga. humvees rescue him and hunt on. an isis fighter pops up from a tunnel, shoots.
he blows himself up. a tenacity and desire to die that will surely slow and bloody the fight ahead. >> nick joins us now. >> are there actually tunnels around there? that was an isis fighter in a tunnel, you believe? >> that's what we think. he did seem to emerge out of nowhere. at the end of our camera lens there. that's slowing the advance of the peshmerga down. and will continue to do so. isis have had months to prepare for an onslaught down that road. they have land mines and an extensive tunnel network. there may be a four kilometer one from the outskirts big enough to let a motorcycle travel in it, anderson. >> difficult road ahead. be careful. appreciate what you and your team are doing, we'll be right back.
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mcgahn. he says that sessions made a huge error, he's very frustrated. a couple people have said one of the few times they've seen him get genuinely angry as opposed to the blufter that we know the president is prone to was about jeff sessions. he's upset about the russia recusal situation and feels angry and hamstrung about the fact that the executive order that the president himself signed related to a ban on travel -- a temporary ban, quote/unquote, from muslim majority nations was struck down by the court. this was within the first week of the administration and set the tone going forward and in the president's mind, jeff sessions is tied to everything. >> lastly, your colleagues just broke some news which is fascinating about jim comey asking jeff sessions not to be left alone again with the president or that he didn't want to be left alone with the president.
>> it's quite striking. essentially you have the fbi director concerned about the position apparently that the president might put him in, based on any kind of inappropriate conversation. and it recalls an instant several months ago where the u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york had been asked to stay on by the president during the transition. he got a call from the president the night before a broad dismissal of a number of obama appointees in federal prosecutor's office and bar rar ra did not return the president's call only to say it would not be appropriate. so i think you're seeing this is an elitist in a number of instances where people have been concerned from outreach from the president about what it could mean given all of the investigations going on. >> two big developments.
maggie haberman, thank you very much. i want to go to sara murray who was at the white house. what are you hearing about the tension between president trump and jeff sessions? >> reporter: well, we know it's been a frustrating relationship. sessions decided to recuse himself and it came as a surprise to the white house and since then, as maggie pointed out, the president has been fuming in his conversations about the fact that sessions recused himself, which led to a special counsel. and once you're in a special counsel, there's no way to unring that bell that could delve into the campaign and we've already seen the way the investigation has touched the inner circle. it's touched jared kushner, his own son-in-law. when the president appeared very briefly if front of the cameras today, he couldn't even get beyond that. he was saying that jared kushner even now is more famous than i
am and i'm a little bit upset about that. but, could ha of course, it's b the russia probe. when we get closer to james comey testifying on capitol hill where the president tends to get more spun up. he tends to get angrier about the fact that he's now in this position because, as he feels, one of his closest allies decided to recuse himself from this investigation. so these tensions certainly aren't going away, anderson. >> you know, when he said to jared kushner, he's more famous than i am now, didn't he also say that to director comey at some point? >> reporter: he did also say that. it's not a good development if you're somewhere between president trump and the media limelight. he likes to be the most important person in that limelight. we saw him get angry with steve bannon when he appeared on the cover of "time" magazine and saw him mention to comey, this is a guy more famous than i am. certainly that's not the position you want to be in if
you're jared kushner. he's the son-in-law. most people say he's position is relatively safe but that's not necessarily a compliment. >> sara murray, thank you. i want to bring in my panel now. the idea that the president doesn't want to be in a room with jeff sessions who is a long-time supporter of president trump. >> he didn't disclose certain things he should have with his contacts with the russians, he's a little more institutionalist. he was on the judiciary committee for years. he hammered justice department officia officials and -- >> how solid is the notion that sessions offered his resignation? >> sorry. go ahead. >> he knows these rules in a
way -- and obviously comey who has a very, you know, strict wall that he believes should be placed between the white house and the fbi, especially when the fbi is investigating something that involved the white house. you understand where they are coming from. stay away from the president. sessions saying, if you don't let me do my job, i need to resign. and then you have trump who knows none of these rules and doesn't understand that even though these people technically work for him, there's a degree of separation and he violated that norm again and again. >> spicer today saying he hasn't asked -- when asked if the president has confidence in jeff sessions, i mean, most answers would normally be, the president has confidence in his attorney general. sean spicer said, well, i haven't had a chance to ask him that. >> it seemed like a very telling omission. and i think, you know, as ryan was saying, trump uses people who work for him, not people who work for the country and jeff sessions views himself as
someone who works for the united states and the constitution. for him to be put in this position where he's being told by the president, you have to be loyal to me, that's a difficult position for him and we're seeing, i think, an increasingly enraged president who wants all of these people to be loyal to him personally and to put that above everything else. and so none of us know what james comey is going to say on thursday, but these are all of the questions that are going to come up about whether the president is demanding loyalty to him about loyalty to -- >> what does it tell you about things at the white house, matt? >> look, i think everyone here is right. it's about loyalty to donald trump and the president carries very deeply about an independent fbi but i think this speaks to sean spicer, that any other press secretary has full confidence in the attorney
general, even if they were lying they would have said that because they would have assumed i would have heard about it if it wasn't true or that they would have to be loyal to the president. but i think sean spicer realizes the president might take that as a slight, that he was off the reservation. how dare you say that i have full confidence in the attorney general and might even tweet about it to contradict it. >> gloria, if sean spicer faced any other version of that question, about the vice president or secretary of state, hard to imagine sean spicer would say i haven't specifically asked him about that. >> right. so we knew something was up or sean would have said, of course the president has full confidence in jeff sessions and he didn't say that. so, you know, people began raising eyebrows and saying, wait a minute, what is going on here? and i just want to bring this back to this question of loyalty that you were talking about earlier. i talked with a source recently
who's known the president for 20 years at least. and this source said to me, you know, everybody says donald trump is a really loyal guy, but i will tell you this. he is not. he will fire somebody. he will cut someone off if he believes that they are not loyal to him. and that it's a one-way street. and so the president has been bad-mouthing jeff sessions to anyone who will listen and he's bad-mouthing his counsel, his in-house counsel, don mcgahn. he's bad-mouthing people on his staff all of whom have been quite loyal to this president, including sean spicer, i would say, and to his own detriment. and yet the president doesn't have any compunction to restrain himself when criticizing these people quite openly to people he
speaks with. >> maggie haberman said that the attorney general offered to, you know basically said i need to be able to do my job and i can resign. how do you read that? >> well, for starters, it's important for people to remember that i've heard a lot of talk about loyalty here. that's very appropriate, i think, for all of the other cabinet positions but the attorney general is unique in the cabinet in having an independent role it in enforcing the law and that may at times involving undertaking that the president doesn't appreciate and may involve protecting investigations from outside influence or even knowledge that the president may not appreciate. that is part of the unique role of the attorney general, the first obligation is to the constitution and to the law. not to the president. and that's not as clearly the case -- of course, they are all obligated to obey the law. but for all of the other cabinet
members, they are implementers of the president's agenda and that's not necessarily the case with an attorney general. so if jeff sessions believes that that element of independence that is necessary for an attorney general who believes in the rule of law and the constitution to be able to do their job correctly, it shouldn't surprise anyone that he might offer to resign. now, it may just be, you've got a president here who's never been in government before and still hasn't learned a lot of these things, frankly, and that may be going on on a rolling basis, even if it may not be pretty and right in front of us. >> steve, is it possible that it's the president's learning curve? >> it might be. anderson, i think we're burying the lead a little bit. jeff sessions recused because he didn't want to have this air of pro pry tea -- if the president is angry for recusing, it's
because he doesn't have the ability to control the investigation into russia. that's the irony here and the tie into mr. comey's testimony on thursday. the real concern is, has president trump been involved in obstruction of justice. you know, let's not lose sight of the forest for the trees here. he's upset about jeff sessions recusing himself because it's an ability that legally he shouldn't have had in the first place. >> we've got to take a quick break. we're going to devote our next hour to a preview of thursday's testimony by jim comey and the impact it could have. next, more on attorney general sessions and his working relationship with the president and the continuing question of what happens tonight. also, my conversation with the family of the woman who has been charged with leaking information from the nsa. i am totally blind.
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gloria borger has exclusive reporting on that just ahead. back with the panel right now. gloria, the idea of jeff sessions offering to resign, he left his career in the senate for this job. he's the top law enforcement official in the united states. hard for him to imagine even broaching the possibility unless tensions were pretty high or he felt this would really impede his ability to do his job. >> absolutely. don't forget, he was the first senator to come out and endorse donald trump. he traveled with him, he was a close adviser and he had a difficult confirmation. it wasn't as if it was a cake walk getting to this job. and he knew it was going to be difficult. and so you can imagine the tensions that arise and it's specifically because sessions feels that perhaps the president was trying to stop him from doing his job, which is, as was stated earlier, to be independent. and donald trump believes that everybody works for him and that
the people who work for him ought to be able to fix things when things go awry. that's not the way government works. people work for the government and the country and not in particular for the president of the united states, particularly when it comes to questions of law enforcement. and that was his trouble with james comey and i gather that's his trouble with jeff sessions. >> well, also, ken, it's interesting -- again, according to "the new york times," they say it happened sometime in the last eight weeks. we don't know the exact date on this. if jeff sessions did resign, then the deputy attorney general would take over, who is the one -- rosenstein, who aint ppod the special counsel, not something that the president was obviously all that thrilled about. >> right. and i would also point out that when they fired director comey, that left andrew mccabe in charge of the fbi who what evidence exists suggests he has democratic leanings, not
something you'd expect to be favorable to the president either and at the same time, a lot of us have been calling for the resignation or firing of comey for over a year now on both sides of the aisle. it's a different situation with attorney general sessions where presumably the only reason he might offer a resignation is if he didn't believe that he could be left free to do the job -- the part of the job where he's supposed to be independent of the president to do it independently. and, you know, who knows when we'll know that. but that would be the only reason i can think of for former senator jeff sessions to give up a choice slot in the senate -- >> if that is, in fact, a concern about his ability to do the job independently, that's a cause for concern, obviously. >> sure it is. absolutely. >> it's also extremely rare for
tensions between the president of the united states and his attorney general to get out in public like this. >> yeah. yeah. you have to wonder if sessions wanted this out, if he wanted it to be known. because frankly, this story makes sessions look good. the fact that he's trying to keep the firewall between the justice department and white house in tact, the fact that he has actually offered his resignation if it can't be in tact, that is to his credit, right? that means he's trying to maintain some independence from trump. either he or the people around him wanted the public to know that. so far what we know is his mistake in his testimony not disclosing his conversations with the russians and then not actually recusing himself including recommending that the actual investigator get fired. the other thing -- one other thing, most of the actions that trump has taken to sort of bottle up this investigation,
they all have backfired. he's done it in a sort of ham-handed way. if he hadn't fired comey, we wouldn't have this special counsel. same thing with the house intelligence -- >> steve , go ahead. >> president trump threw jeff sessions under his twitter bus and said anything that goes wrong with the second iteration of the travel ban, it's all the justice department's fault. >> they did this as if he was a bystander to it all? >> exactly. anderson, i think we're quickly reaching a point where it's getting very hard for senior government officials to want to serve in this administration if the price for doing anything independent, if the price for doing anything, even if they are told to do but then got struck
down by the court is called out publicly by the president. and that may be why it's hard for him to find openings for these nominees. >> and when you declare war on the fbi, when you say things about the department of justice, surprise, surprise, all of a sudden information starts leaking out. >> we've got to take a quick break. more to report in a moment. gloria borger will talk about what comey may testify about on thursday. also, an nsa contractor under arrest for leaking information during the election. i spoke with her stepmother and father. hear what they have to say, coming up. oil and gas get where they need to go safely. because safety is never being satisfied. and always working to be better.
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breaking news. another story is breaking right now. "the washington post" is reporting that the president back in march asked the director of national intelligence, dan coats, if he could intervene with the fbi to back off its probe of michael flynn's russia connections. we're going to talk about that and get more detail on that because that's a story that is just posted by "the washington post." another story you'll only see here, exclusive new details on what fired fbi director james comey will and will not say when he testifies thursday morning. our gloria borger has that and joins us now. the conversations between president trump and james comey, what are you learning about what comey is going to say about those conversations? >> well, eric and jake tapper and i are learning that james comey is going to dispute president trump when president trump said he was assured three times that he was not under any
kind of investigation. rather, our sources say that comey is expected to tell senators that he never gave trump such assurances, although one source, without getting into the details of exactly what comey will say, hinted to me today that perhaps the president misunderstood or misinterpreted the exact language that comey was using to talk about any investigations because, as you know, anderson, these things can be sort of complex whether you're the target or the subject or whether it's a counterintelligence investigation or some other kind of investigation, that perhaps comey was hedging his words because he's a pretty slick guy, in a way that the president perhaps misunderstood him. >> right. but if the president misunderstood, the president said that comey told him this three times. >> point blank, right. >> the other question is whether james comey will say that the
president tried to obstruction justice. >> we know that what comey is going to do is testify as a fact witness. he's going to talk about his meetings with the president. we're not sure whether he's going to read from his memos. we know that congress has asked for those memos and they haven't gotten them but he's going to recount exactly what occurred. but sources talking to us say he's not going to be in the business of legal analysis. he's going to leave the prosecution, if there is one, up to the special counsel mueller but instead he's just going to appear and tell members of congress what happened. my source said to me, well, look, people walk out of that room saying, oh, yeah, the president obstructed justice. he said maybe some will but that's a political judgment and it's not a legal judgment and comey is not willing to offer either one. >> so even if he believed personally it was -- his personal opinion was that the president was trying to obstruct
justice, he's going to try to report the facts? >> right. and he's going to say -- you know, there are a series of meetings and one source suggested to me that, in hindsight, things could look very differently than they did at the time. >> gloria, thank you. joining us is brian aryan and christine. first of all, ryan, it's not going to be as satisfying for some democrats or opponents of the president who want him to say he was trying to obstruction justice. >> yeah, i think so. and you could understand why he might have some qualms about making such a bold accusation. he's not the investigator anymore. but i think that what might be powerful in terms of what gloria just laid out is hearing from comey the sequence of events with details coming from his mouth rather than from him
asking if he was put through a loyalty test, does he indeed contradict the president on this idea that he guaranteed he wasn't a subject or target of the investigation, does he provide details about trump saying to let go of the michael flynn investigation. >> and based on the reporting, the breaking story tonight, did he say to the attorney general, i don't want to be alone in the room. >> yes. >> with the president of the united states. i still can't get over that idea. it's kind of a start telling idea. >> it's start telling and then obviously senators will ask why. and the answer is going to be because he thought he was trying to influence him on this investigation. and remember, comey -- we've seen him testify before. he's a good story teller. he tells a powerful story. >> and the idea that the president of the united states may live tweet this as well, which, you know, from a legal standpoint i would imagine every attorney on the planet would tell him don't do that, you know, this is comey giving his
version of events. you don't need to add to it in realtime. your response becomes later. >> absolutely. every presidential counsel on earth would be physically restraining their client trying to get him not to do this because there is almost no good he can do himself by bringing himself into this story in this way. you know, as ryan was saying, all jim comey really has to do here is confirm a lot of the events that are already on the record that have been reported in various news accounts, the whole episode where he's trying to hide in the drapes because he doesn't want to get entangled with the president, that has been recounted secondhand by comey's friends, where he he were to confirm that, he repeatedly warned the president that he should not be calling him and having these int ter rackses, not to be in the same room. for him to say, yeah, that happened a a lot of things that we think we know is going to be very explosive.
>> ryone can only presume that he's going to have a rebuttal for whatever james comey says and go after the character of james comey based on all of the things from the past. >> you know, listen, i don't think you need to go through the character of jim comey. i've heard that comey is not going to say that any type of interference took place. i mean, that's what we're going to walk away from at tomorrow's hearings. >> what he's going to say is facts happen and people can determine whether or not they believe -- >> he was the director of the fbi. if he was in the middle of something that took place, he has an obligation to speak forward. just because people want to dance around the issues whether he's no longer the current fbi director, he was the fbi director for the bulk of this investigation and has a responsibility to come forward if anything took place and he never did. the facts are going to be that nothing took place and partisans are going to walk away with the
partisan views that they showed up with. >> christine, what about that point, if there was obstruction of justice and he believed there was at any particular moment that he had an obligation to come forward and say something. >> let's just first say that ryan asserted what we know is going to be said on thursday. we don't know. >> right. i'm basing it off a cnn report. >> but the fact that this is such an unorthodox series of events, that the former fbi director is testifying in this way about the president of the united states. and i never expected comey to draw a conclusion. that's not his job in this case. it's to tell him what happened and then lawyers and elected officials, et cetera, will draw the conclusions on a political end on a legal stage. but let's be clear -- we know and i think we know because comey will confirm it -- that he said to the attorney general, i don't want to be alone with the
president of the united states. that certainly is a conversation that may have led to disclosure. we'll learn more about it. i used to be an elected official of a much lower level and the people you didn't meet with without staff were people you thought were dangerous or untoward or bad actors. and i would think the same judgment applies to mr. comey's statement. >> we've got to take another quick break. coming up, chilling information about a key ally, one that president recently met with. a story that led to multiple gulf nations cutting ties with qatar. details ahead. i was thinking ar. and before that? you mean after that? no, i'm talking before that. do you have things you want to do before you retire? i'd really like to run with the bulls. wow. hope you're fast. i am. get a portfolio that works for you now and as your needs change with investment management services.
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news that is a true sign of the times. investigators believe russian hackers got into a qatar state news agency and attributed false information to qatar's rulers, partly in reaction to the false news report, qatar's neighbors severed ties with the country. the crisis in the mid-east instigated by a russian fake news report. evan perez has the reporting on this. exactly what have you learned? >> anderson, you're right. this is a real crisis. u.s. investigators believe russian hackers were behind a cyberbreach against the qatari state news agency. the hackers planted a false news report friendly to iran and critical to president donald trump that is now being used by saudi arabia and some of the other u.s. allies in the region as a reason to carry out an economic and political blockade of qatar. u.s. and qatari officials tell us that the fbi sent a team of investigators to doha to help
investigate the alleged hacking incident. the alleged involvement of russian hackers would add to concerns by u.s. intelligence and law enforcement agencies that russia continues to try to use some of the same cyberhacking measures on u.s. allies that it used to meddle in the u.s. 2016 elections. as you know, qatar hosts one of the largest u.s. military bases in the region. anderson, u.s. officials say that the russian goal here seems to be cause rifts among the u.s. and its allies in the region. >> is it believed that the russian government is behind this? >> well, it's not yet clear whether the u.s. has tracked the hackers in the qatar incident to russian criminal organizations or to the russian security services blamed for the u.s. election hacks. they told me, quote, not much happens in that country without the blessing of the russian government. today, president trump was criticizing qatar that we hear from the saudis and president trump didn't mention the hack but he voiced support for the
regional blockade of qatar and cited qatar's funding of terrorist groups. the qataris have rejected those accusations and the fbi and cia declined to comment for the story. the qatar said in part, "the hacking of the news agency is an aggressive coordinated crime that represents a continued escalation in the campaign against qatar. these malicious efforts do not support the unity of the region to fight terrorism, instability and conflict." anderson? >> if fbi agents were looking at this in may, the president of the united states must have been aware. no? >> it's not clear. he didn't really refer to the hacking in his tweets. it's not clear what he's been briefed on and we know, according to the investigation, the investigation is still ongoing and they hope to be able to discuss the findings in the next week or so. that's one of the reasons they brought the fbi in. >> evan perez, thank you. joining me now, national security officer steve hall.
steve, so either russian criminal organizations or russian security services would be behind something like this. which seems more likely, given what you know about both? >> anderson, it's not criminals. and that distinction is somewhat blurred as to who is criminal and who is not. something of this nature, another cyberoperation, in this case, an influence operation using propaganda on the part of the russians definitely if the reporting is accurate and sounds completely consistent would be a russian intelligence security services type of operation that would have been briefed and approved right at the very top with vladimir putin. this is extremely consistent with what we've already seen. >> if this was in fact directed by the russian government, i mean, this is what they tried to do, tried to disrupt and divide. this is what in many cases covert actions are about. >> absolutely. if you sit back and look at it
from the level that vladimir putin wants geopolitically, he wants to drive wedges between the u.s. and its allies. so it's been a very good couple of weeks for putin in that regard, especially if you look at the reaction of our nato allies and european allies to the president's visit. a lot of concern on that. and so that was a win for putin. and now i think it's only rational and actually good sense on the part of the russians to say, look, this worked really well, the cyberpiece of it worked very well in europe and in the united states. there's no cost -- not much of a cost to us trying to do this in the middle east. it's another piece of warfare from the russians. they can't conventionally go against us with their forces but this cybercapability is proving very profitable and useful to them around the world now. >> it would also show that it's not just u.s. and europe that wants to show division in it. the middle east is obviously
their prime target. >> sure. if you sit back and say what are vladimir putin's goals, it's a u.s. loss is a win for russia because russia, at the end of the day, putin at the end of the day is earn canned about the united states and its allies because those things the united states represents open society rule of law and he wants no part of it. that's not his sim testimoystem. whatever he can do to weaken the alliances with other western-thinking countries is a benefit in the long term to putin and russia. >> finally, president trump earlier seemed to be taking credit for the gulf nation's moves against qatar. if the u.s. suspected the motivations behind the move, wouldn't this have been included in the president's daily briefings? >> probably it would have been and i guess there's still a lot of analysis going on in terms of how the president takes his briefings and what he gets out
of it. again, the russians really understand us, the west, and i think the president of the united states is so much better than we understand them. they have watched this president, had gut-level reactions and used twitter and other social media platforms to just come out and say things in a way that other administrations would have been probably much more measured and analytical about. so i think what they do is say, look, if we get out there and mess around a bit in the middle east, say, and give the president fodder for tweeting about something, then there's a good chance that he will. let's give it a shot and see what happens. it's possible that that is one of their calculations and what they were thinking of here when they did this. >> steve hall, appreciate it. thanks very much into coming up, russia's meddling efforts hit closer to home with a 25-year-old federal contractor behind bars accused of sending classified information to a news agency about russia's attempts to hack u.s. voting machines. what her mom and stepfather told me a short time ago, next. perfe, nobody does it better.
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to an online news outlet. the material, an nsa report on a russian cyberattack on u.s. voter software. there's no evidence any votes were affected. her life has been. i spoke with her mother and her stepfather. what has your daughter told you about what happened? >> she hasn't told us that much. she did tell me that she -- well, it was basically saturday night. she came home from the grocery store and she was followed into her driveway and her home by fbi agents. she said she was very scared. they took her by surprise. she was not expecting any of this. she said they were all armed. they took her into the back room of her house, which is a room she never goes into, for reasons
anyway. but basically, then she was arrested from that point. we did not have any information with regard to the charges or anything until after the hearing on monday. >> prosecutors have said when confronted that she did admit to leaking a classified document. has she admitted that to you as well? >> she hasn't admitted it to us at all. what she told me was that she was terrified. she was terrified of the situation and she did tell me also that she was afraid she was going to disappear. that they were going to make her disappear. she felt like she needed to give them what they were asking for at the time. and so she was terrified. >> gary, how much communication have you had with her since the arrest? has she given any reason to you
as to why she might have done something like this, if she did? >> we have not discussed anything about the case, the charges. she called me on saturday afternoon and told me she was in trouble, that there was -- that's why she was calling me. i spoke with the fbi agent at that time. as far as discussing anything, our contact has been very limited because basically she's been talking to her mom. we don't discuss anything about the case. basically -- i haven't had the conversation with her. we briefly got to see her at the hearing. but we have not had a chance to talk with her privately at all. the phone conversations we have are subject to review by the prosecutor. so we can't ask her what's going on with that. >> were you aware -- were both of you aware what she did for a living? did she give any indication she had access to classified information, was thinking about doing something like this? >> no.
you know, for obvious reasons, she didn't share what she did. i didn't know what company she worked for. i didn't know anything. it was just -- it's a rule that you just -- you don't ask. i don't -- i didn't know what she did. i don't know what she did when she went to work. no idea whatsoever. >> she never discussed her job or details of her job in anything but very, very general terms. >> can i ask, if in fact she did what she's being accused of doing, what do you feel about that? well -- >> let me say this. i don't care what they accused her of doing. i know that she served her country. she's a veteran of the university air force and served with distinction for six years. she's a patriot. to see her maligns and slandered in the media is very
disheartening. this young lady has served her country well. received praise from her commanders. she still continued to serve after she got out of the air force. >> i just want to say that if she did what she's being accused of, she is -- i know she's ready to pay the price. i know that she's going to do whatever she needs to do to pay that price. our fear -- my biggest fear in all of this is that she's not going to get a fair trial. she's not going to be treated fairly. she's going to be made an example of. that's my biggest fear. i know that if she did something wrong, she's always come clean with it. she's always been willing to accept the consequences.
but i'm terrified for her right now, because of the news, the climate, the social media. i'm terrified that she is not going to be treated fairly. >> you believe she will be made an example of? >> i do. >> because what she's accused of doing is -- it's a severe offense. >> yes, it is. we haven't actually seen anything other than what's been posted online. it sounds horrible. but we don't know the details. we don't know exactly what it was that she's alleged to have released. we're finding out more and more about the actual raid and her alleged admission. i understand the government's position on this is to go strong with the case at first.
but we don't have enough information to talk about that aspect of it at this point. we're just here to support our daughter and to put a face on her that's not -- it's the true face of our daughter. >> thank you very much for speaking to us. sorry it's under these circumstances. >> thank you. >> thank you, sir. >> coming up, with james comey's testimony just two days away, we will spend the next hour on what they say they will ask him, what we know about what he will say, what's at stake. also all the breaking news stories that have broken over the last several hours. details on all of them ahead.
own new program which will air 6:00 p.m. weekdays. we'll announce the start date eventually. but you can mark your calendar in a rough way if you want. a big breaking news night. so i'm happy to hear what rachel maddow has in store for us. >> you're giving us a calendar alert that could exist in the age of digital calendars. you're telling us to pencil this in in general but i can't give you a start date. write a macro so at some point that stakicks in and it starts. >> that's all i was allowed to say. >> a very laurie approawyerly a tonight i had an a block all set and ready to go. we worked on it this weekend. all this breaking news stuff this evening and then this happened this evening and we had all of this crazy stuff happening with the legal teams that are trying to defend or
senator rand paul from kentucky said he wouldn't vote for it because repealing obamacare was still too much like obamacare. whatever. for whatever reasons the two of them said they wouldn't vote it. so we were heading into this week thinking. because we knew the next things that were going to happen in the health care bill that might affect those numbers, either collins and paul changing their mind and additional senators joining with them and saying no, which would of course end their chances of repealing obama cair. we knew some of those things were going to fall into line. we knew heading into this past weekend that today, monday, or maybe tomorrow, tuesday, the congressional budget office was going to give us a new score of the republicans' bill which tells you not just how much it's going to cost but how many millions of americans it's going to cost their health insurance. we knew it was going to happen
today or tomorrow. we knew from senator mcconnell's vote that he wanted a vote by thursday. an impending vote can be something that presses the point, makes people decide what they're going to do. so we knew those triggers were coming. but then this weekend senator john mccain was admitted for emergency surgery or admitted for surgery to repair a blood clot. we're told that was serious surgery, the reaction in political terms from republicans was that they wanted to delay their vote until senate mccain was recovered and back in washington. obviously everybody wishes senator mccain the best. it was a little jarring to see the political response immediately from his party that the way they're responding was by holding off this vote. that's what they said. then we learned that the cess n congressional budget office wouldn't be putting out their score today or tomorrow. all that meant is the triggers that were going to happen this
week were gone. they were -- their bill was perched and paused and finally balanced on the edge of failure. would anybody else come out against the bill? would that congressional budget office be terrible and cause more republican to say no? would the impending vote on thursday be enough to nudge individual senators one way or the other? those were supposed to be the trigger points. when both of those triggers fell away and neither were going to happen this week, we assumed that we just have another week of stasis. they're right on the edge of failure. two votes and they can't lose another. tonight it has fallen apart. we got the first inklings this evening from senator ron johnson of wisconsin suggesting that maybe he would vote no, that he was offended about the way mitch mcconnell has been talking about the obamacare repeal. i don't know if that's what opened the flood gates. right after that, then a half
our hour ago senator mike lee of utah tweeted my colleague jerry moran and i will not support the motion to proceed on this bill. and it was lining --ke -- we th all week long we would be standing at two. now all of the sudden they went from two votes they could barely afford to four votes. how did that happen? is this some sort of disturbance in the force for this evening and they're going back to a safer position tomorrow and in the days ahead for this week or did this thing really just completely fall apart tonight. millions of people's health insurance is at stake if. joining us on the phone is frank tharp who has been following these events. thanks for taking our call. >> thanks for having me. >> when i described about the
timi timing, it was me observing this out of washington in terms of what i expected. did people expect that tonight would be the night we would get a whole bunch more republican senators saying no? >> there wasn't the expectation that this is going to happen tonight. i think that there was an expectation that most of these republican senators who were on the fence were waiting on the cbo score and now that had been delayed we were expecting the announcements to happen once that came out. but there was also an expectation that folks, they didn't want to be the one senator one the one that doomed the bill. so the idea that senators lee and moran came out together and did this together, it makes it a lot of sense. it allows them to be able to do it together, now it's four, not three. neither one of them is the one senator that decided to be the nail in the coffin for this current version of the bill. but, you know, notably, you know, somebody like jerry moran,
he came out saying he wants to basically start this process over. notably, jerry moran was one of the republican senators to actually have town halls during the 4th of july recess. i don't think there was an expectation that this was going to happen so early. but i also think that it did -- it needed to be at least two senators to come out to get this number to over the two that would actually kill the bill. >> frank, that's a good point about how senator moran has been approaching this. i've been trying to keep an eye, and my staff, we've been trying to keep an eye on what's happening in the states, what's happening in these senators' home offices, what's happening when they're facing their constituents about this. and kansas is one of the states that is a conservative state. a lot of red state voters with the red state mind-set. but there are been tons and tons of demonstrations and town
halls, a lot of home state pressure on a nart like jerry moran to vote no on this. and if you're looking at it from a national perspective, you wouldn't expect. but that has got to be part of what's in his mind and he's approaching this. do you know if senator mitch mcconnell has a plan around the traffic cones that have been put in his way? is there a temporary problem, something he anticipated or is this really potentially the end? >> it could be. but i mean we're waiting to hear back from mcconnell's office own what they plan to do. it's likely senator republicans will meet. they always meet on tuesday. they have their lunch and mcconnell has his press conference, where he and leadership, they speak to the reporters on capitol hill and tell them what they're going to do, the next steps. that's where we'll end up hearing what they want to do here. the thing is, you know, if senators moran and -- susan
collins wanted to scrap the entire bill and start over again. wanted hearing, one with more time. and there's a real question about whether or not they have more time. whether or not they can do that, even with the two extra weeks they've given themselves during the august recess. and between now and lunchtime tomorrow, whether or not there's doing to be moderate republicans who are expecting to come out against the bill, whether they will start to trickle out now that they know that this bill is -- or at least this current version is not going anymore. >> fascinating stuff. frank thorpe, thank you very much. i know you're in the middle of reporting this out tonight. that last point that frank was making there, for the people on my staff who have been watching this more closely and for steve b bennon, once you get past the hurdle, once you get past the two votes that they can endure
and still pass this thing, what we have been expecting is that that would sort of open the flood gates and you would get, in all likelihood, you will get a whole bunch more senator saying no once some people have sort of broken the ice there. so what frank was saying about expecting the moderate senators to sort of all pour out now saying we're all no votes on this as well. i will tell you from perspective of my staff f staand steve's ex which i trust a lot, this that is what a lot of people 0 expecting. this year we've learned to expect the unexpected. we tend to look at news from congress as to what happens there is driven by forces that are prurly inside washington, d.c. you're covering stuff in washington and so you look around in washington to see what explains what just happened. i continue to believe, though, that if you really want to understand why republicans are failing again to pass their health bill, right, why
republicans with republican control of the house, republican control of the senate and a republican in the white house who would likely sign anything labeled health care, why these folks cannot pass the one thing they all agreed on and campaigned on, repealing obamacare, why can't they do it? i don't think it can be explained in washington. i think in order to understand that you might also look around at what is happening right where you live. for example, take the ninth district in virginia, represented by this guy, congressman morgan griffith. a republican congress from virginia. he voted to repeal obamacare. his constituents say if the republican bill becomes low law, 62,000 people in his trikt will lose their health insurance. to help drive that point home, they made him a visual aid. this weekend the constituents spent their sunday stapling
62,000 pieces of paper in a paper chain. every link represents an individual person in that district who would lose all health insurance under the republican health care plan to repeal obamacare. 62,000. they pieced out together, laid it out flat across a football field. the whole thing clocked in around 3 miles long. then they stuffed all 15,000-plus feet of it into crash bags and delivered this chain to their congressman, morgan griffith. grass roots efforts did not take the weekend off, leading into this dramatic develops tonight. tucson, arizona, you know how hot it is in mid july, protesters braved brutal heat outside senator john mccain's office. few people brought umbrellas with them to stay cool.
over in north carolina, patrick mchenry's constituents prusedsp up his sign with tombstones reminding him of people who could die because of the bill. here in california a good size group of people turned up to talk to paul cook. when they founld out the office was closed, they stood downstairs chanting, "we'll be back." . when the senate got to work today in washington, d.c., they would barely make it through the door. protests started in the senate atrium in washington, d.c. people chanting their stories about how obamacare helped save their lives. capitol police gave their first warning to clear the area. protesters sat down on the ground. police started rounding them up, folded up their banners and made
arrests. some people made it upstairs, 15 activists crowded into the office, wrote him a song to "he's a jolly good fellow" expect they changed the word to "you should vote no on health care." protesters were less jolly here, yelling, "your job is on the line." eventually they were kicked out of that office. they parked themselves on the floor right outside the senator office door. police made more arrests there. include this woman in a wheelchair who kept chanting. more than 30 people were arrested at the capitol today. while they were going on, a group stopped a bunch of senators at their d.c. offices. they call thoechlss the little
lobbyists. carrying around a binder of kids who have stayed alive because of obamacare. nobody was senator elher's staff were able to meet with them but think did give the kids ice cream. which was awesome. after enduring this face-to-face pressure, this kind of intense pressure from their constituents for weeks and weeks, both at home, in their home states and home districts and also at their offices in washington, d.c., the flood gates really did open tonight. they had two no votes before tonight. that's all they could spare. now we're up to four. four members of the senate who shay they're firmly against the bill. that means that mitch mcconnell is not going to pass this thing. not unless he changes two of their minds and doesn't lose anybody else. so what happens now really is anyone's guess. this is really big news tonight. but i got to tell you one
constant throughout this entire process from the very start has been how the majority of this country really strongly does not want the republicans to do this. and these protests have been relentless. they're still planned, more are still planned at the capital and all over the country throughout this week. but they've had a huge victory tonight. joining us tonight is ezra eleven, a cofound are of indivisible, helping folks to organize all across the country. they've taken point in as best they can when it comes to the health care bill. mr. levin, appreciate you taking the call. >> thanks for calling me. >> pardon me take on why this is big news toe night and where i think this comes from. as somebody who has been really involved as these indivisible groups across the country have mobilized so aggressively on this. are you seeing this tonight as a
victory? are you cautious in viewing what's happening here? do you think you've won? >> so this is absolutely a win. i think the way you framed it was absolutely right. change is coming to washington. it is not starting in washington. we are, as of thursday, six months into the trump presidency. there's a unified conservative government the likes of which we have not seen in over a decade and yet they have yet to pass a single significant piece of legislation. that he's not because they don't have control of the government. they do. it's because the people are against the agenda they're pushing. it is amazing to see. tonight is a big win. its not a final victory but it is a huge one win and one that groups across the country have been working towards and will continue to work towards. really all across the country. that's inspiring to see, people standing up on their home turf making their voices heard. >> that is the core behind the
indivisible movement. wherever you live you should be contacting your own officials. that's why there have been so many calls across the country for town halls and me other meeting, any other forum where representatives have to look their own constituents in the eye. given that has been your focus on the indivisible side of things, what do you make about the direct action tactics that we're showing on the screen here, people doing sit-ins, people protesting, getting arrested. how does that integrate with the kind of work that indivisible has been doing? >> i have a huge amount of respect for the groups on the ground. they've been indivisible members, planned parenthood and move on and others. this is a direct part of this strategy, which is shining a light on exactly what congress is doing. i think one of the interesting things we've seen over the last
several months is republicans aren't holding town halls. they're not facing their constituents. very few are. what we're seeing in response to that is if you're not going to come to me, i'm going to come to you. they're going to the district offices and other public events and it's working. senator moran ought to get a lot of credit. he was within of a couple of republican senators who held a town hall over the july 4th recess. held it in a very tiny town in kansas with population 277. 150 people showed up at that town hall, including kansas city indivisible and others who made the trek out there to talk to their senator. that works. showing up and doing sit-ins works. it's about putting pressure on. hey we're watching you. i love seeing that. >> ezra levin, thanks for talking to us tonight. it's a big busy night with the
breaking news. >> tomorrow is a big busy day, a national day of action. keep this pressure on and we'll kill this bill. >> magain the republican effort to repeal obamacare appears to have fallen apart. as you heard ezra levin say, a cofounder of a group nationwide organizing efforts that's really been trying to stop the republican effort to repeal obamacare. you heard him say this is not over. kraushsly optimistic. but four republican senators saying they'll vote no is enough to kill it. i for one was not expecting this development tonight. we'll talk the one of the democratic senators on the democrat side of the bill to get his perspective on how final this victory is. senator chris murphy from connecticut is going to join us
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afford. they can't pass their bill like that. that said, very few people don't expect them to quit trying. senator chris murphy here tonight. thanks for being here. we're trying to figure out i guess whether this is a normal pothole or an axle breaker. how big of a deal are the defections tonight? >> there's a couple of wheels off tf bus tonight but this is a bus full of republicans ultimately determined to deliver this bill. they are not going to give up on it. but the statements tonight, paired with those from susan collins and rand paul, they feel a little different. susan collins says it's time to sit count and work with democrats. jerry moran's statement tonight criticizes the behind closed doors process and says it's time to start over.
you have the feeling this is beyond a couple of small fixes. it proves that reports of democracy's death was overexaggerated. it no matter how long you have been promising it. i think they're going back to the drawing board at this point but they're going back to the drawing board. they're not giving up. >> it's hard to remake a fifth of the american economy with a bill on what you hold no public hearings and that there's really no public debate in the senate about it. i wonder, when you talk about them going back to the drawing board, do you look at the types of criticism that have been laid out by the senators who now say they're no votes. do you think there's a chance that mitch mcconnell might go back and start and do this in a normal wray where there's haerks, a publicly viewable process an an actual debate? >> it would be a fairly sizable
admission of guilt if he did that and opened up a process after he swore he didn't need it. but the public hearing process is not just for show. it actually is a means to get real feedback from professionals and experts. and i think part of the hesitancy of a lot of republicans, and i put jerry moran in the category to support this bill, this wasn't just a moral monstrosity, it was an int intellectual train wreck. it may be the only way for them to have an open process in which they solicit feedback of people who know what they're doing. that being said, mcconnell would have toed a mitt that the way he did this was wrong and i think that will be a tough thing for him to do. i hope they do that but i would expect that they would go back behind closed doors. >> i've asked you this before and i think i know the answer to it is going to be the same as
the answer you gave me before. given the fact that they cannot seem to get this thing passed, at least not yet with votes from members of their own party, has there now been any effort by mitch mcconnell, by the republican leadership, by any of your colleague to get any democratic votes? have they changed their mind on that or are they still trying to do it purely with republicans. >> what a political gift this would be for the democrats if they continue to do this in a way that secured only republican votes. there's only political upside the democrats. but we're actually sincere in saying that we hope that they come and talk to us. they've got to jetson the tax cuts and gutting of medicaid, we will talk to them about their concerns of flexibility if they will give us some long term guarantee that these exchanges will be solvent and strong. and wouldn't it be great for health care to stop being a political football that gets tossed from one side to the
other every five or ten years. i don't know that mitch mcconnell thinks we're sincere, but we are. the answer is no, they haven't reached out to us but it would be to their political benefit and to the country's policy benefit if they actually took us up on the offer. >> thank you for helping us through this tonight, sir. really appreciate it. >> thanks. >> we're continuing to follow the breaking news tonight. the latest effort, the only effort on the table right now to try to repeal obamacare, the republican bill in the senate as of right now is dead. they could lose two votes. as of the last hour or two they're down to four no votes. this is a story that started breaking in the states, that started break in all of those congressional district offices and senate offices out in the sticks and all of those places across the country but today it came home to washington and this bill right now is dead, at least for now. much more ahead tonight. stay with us.
811 is available to any business our or homeownerfe. to make sure that you identify where your utilities are if you are gonna do any kind of excavation no matter how small or large before you dig, call 811. keep yourself safe. so this is the news that we bumped right from the top of the show when we got the breaking news about the health care bill dying in washington. we're continuing to keep an eye on that tonight. but i wanted to let you know that "the wall street journal" reported this evening that a new subpoena has been issued into the investigation into paul manafort. this is from the journal tonight. the subpoena is from the district attorney's office in manhattan, directed at a small
bank in chicago run by a member of president trump's economic advisory panel. the subpoena is reportedly seeking information on some gigantic multimillion dollar loans that the tiny bank gave to paul manafort in november, the month of the election and in january, the month of the inauguration. and i say these loans are guyian ti dpsh gigantic. apparently what looked nutty to investigators about the loan is the $16 million that the bank gave to paul manafort, that $16 million was almost one quarter of the bank's equity capital. i don't speak banker either. but that means that the bank had x amount of money it could loan out in total in the world. and these loans that they gave to paul manafort was them
loaning him one out of every four dollars they could loan to anybody in the world. this one bank bebt over so far to give him money. one out of every four dollars that they were able to loan they loaned to paul manafort all at once when the campaign was -- we really don't know what was going on there. but the journal does raise one interesting prospect in a new report they posted tonight. quoting from the journal tonight. the bank's loans to mr. manafort equaled almost 24% of the bank's reported $67 million of capital. from the time the loans were issued, mr. calling, had expressed interest in becoming mr. trump's secretary of the ar army. he's giving these gigantic loans that his bank cannot afford. steve calq is the head of the
little bank in shi. he did not become secretary of the army. was there any connection between him wanting to be army secretary and giving those seemingly inexplicable giant loans? no idea. but the journal is raising those two points together tonight and reporting that the d.a.'s office in manhattan has subpoenaed this bank in chicago for information on those loans. and you have not heard this story before. it rhymes with a lot of the other stories that we've heard about paul manafort. in mid june we learned that the fbi was looking into mon that fort's real estate deals in southern southern. in april we learned that a federal grand jury subpoenaed paul manafort's bank records. in march, richard engel reported that the attorney general of the nation of cypress had been asked to hand over information about paul manafort's offshore banking
activities. and tonight, new york prosecutors from the d.a.'s office subpoenaing this bank in chicago, run by a campaign adviser th adviser. and that's all just the law enforcement stuff. we also learned last week in the "the new york times," almost in a passing reference, their big story on the trump tower meeting with donald trump jr. and paul manafort and jared kushner and all of those russians, the par ren thet kl reference, paul manafort had disr discussed that meeting with congressional investigators. which means in addition to him handling all of these subpoenas, paul manafort has also apparently been discussing things with congressional investigators. i didn't know he was talking to them. there was a period of a couple
of months he said he would register as a foreign agent and the time when he finally did. that meant it was months after a lot of people had aseemed he had done it when paul manafort finally filed as a foreign agent and declared over a two-year period he had been paid $17 million by a political party in ukraine. those numbers may be starting to look a little hinky as well. anne cramer at the "the new york times" said even though paul manafort said he and his firm were paid nearly $17 million from this political party in ukraine, he found that that political party in ukraine which supposedly paid them, they said they didn't spend $17 million on anything. they didn't spend $17 million in total over that same period, not just on him but on everything they spent money on combined. in 2012 manafort says this ukrainian political party paid
him. that same year this ukrainian political party said it only spent $11 million on everything it spent money on. the following year it was worse. manafort said he received $4.5 million from that party but the political party says it didn't spend $4 million in total on everything it spent on that year. it's like, you know, showing up and -- yeah, my lemonade stand paid for it. if he didn't get the $17 million from that political party and the records say he didn't, then where did he get the $17 million from? i don't know and neither do you. but you know what? there's another thing here that really, really, really does not make sense. and it doesn't make sense in washington and that's next. stay with us. at panera, a salad is so much more than one thing.
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and with their price match, i know i'm getting the best price every time. now i can start relaxing even before the vacation begins. your vacation is very important. that's why booking.com makes finding the right hotel for the right price easy. visit booking.com now to find out why we're booking.yeah! wilmerheal is a big famous american launch. offices all over the country, big name lawyers, particularly washington lawyers associated with the firm. for example, robert mueller, brought on as exfbi director looking into the trump-russia thing. robert mueller quit his partnership at wilburheal in order to take this job and that created an issue for that law firm. no matter how big and
professionally operated a launch law firm is. even with robert mueller quits wilburheal, there were concerns related to jared kushner in the russian affair. jared kushner's lawyer also worked for that same law firm. robert mueller quit that firm to take to job but you may see how the firm might worry that one of its expartners is leading the investigation into russia and another one of the partners is representing one of the dudes right in the middle of the russia scandal. that worry about the same law firm having that connection to both sides of the case, that was the explanation that we got from jared kushner's lawyer last week as to why she was dropping out of representing him on russian matters. once robert mueller left to form the special counsel's office, we
advised jared kushner to get legal advice as to whether to continue with us. she had to drop out because she worked at bob mueller's old law firm. well you know what? paul manafort's russia law firm works at wilburheal, the same law firm. which is fine. he's otherwise a totally normal choice for somebody to represent paul manafort in the russia investigation he's up to his neck in. expect w except why did jared kushner lose his russia lawyer but bpau manafort gets to keep his russia lawyer. how can there be a conflict or one of them and not for the other. and while we're on the subject. there's something even weirder going on with the lawyer hired to represent donald trump's eldest son. the president announced the
formation of his reelection campaign on the day he was inaugurated. that campaign has just released its first sec filing. we've learned a couple of things that don't make sense. first of all, if there's one thing that you think the members of the trump family could afford paying for themselves, it would be their lawyers, right? it's kind of a personal thing. i mean the whole family's public persona is about how fabulously wealthy and independent they are. donald trump jr. is not paying for his own lawyer in the russia lawyer. his russian lawyer is being paid for by people all across america who send campaign donation to president trump. why is he getting a lawyer paid for by campaign? the lawyer himself a week ago today explained to new york law journal why he had been hired to represent the president east eldest son.
quote, trump jr. hired an attorney but congressional committee members are interested in speaking with him, quote, so you get a lawyer, he said. that was the explanation, that was monday, july 10th, a week ago today. the first day that any member of congress ever said publicly that they wanted to speak to donald trump jr., it was the previous day. july 9th, a bunch of members from the investigating committees said they wanted to talk to donald trump jr. we know that they didn't also reach out to him in private because the lawyer has said on the record that donald trump jr. has never been privately contacted by any of the committees. so him having to appear before these committees or members of the congress being interested in talking to him, that's the purported explanation as to why donald jr. is getting a lawyer being paid for by the campaign. as of july 9th and 10th, members of the congressional committees
were saying they wanted him to come testify. that's a fine explanation. that makes total sense. except with the sec filings that came out shows that donald trump jr.'s lawyer was actually hired in june, when no one from any congressional committee was talking at all about wanting to interview donald trump jr. so the explanation they've given doesn't make sense. something weird is going on with paul manafort's representation, with jared kushner's representation and also with donald trump jr.'s representation. something doesn't make sense about the public explanation about all of those legal teams. and i'm not sure who will ever be expected to tell the truth about these things. but the on the record explanations so far do not pass muster. and this is driving me nuts. we're going to figure this thing out. i'm telling you. this should be easy to figure out. we are going to figure this out. watch this space.
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magnitsky is not one of the hard ones. >> the majinsky act. >> no, there is no majinsky act. this is the high-profile lawyer working for the president on his russia legal team. he's the one who was brought on board because he's supposed to be the excellent tv communicator. >> and now he's being investigated by the department of justice. so he's being investigated for taking the action that the attorney general -- deputy attorney general recommended him to take. >> first of all, you've now said he is being investigated after saying -- >> no. >> you just said that he's being investigated. >> no. chris, i said that the -- let me be crystal clear so you completely understand. we have not received, nor are we aware of any investigation of the president of the united states. >> sir, you just said two times that he's being investigated. >> jay sekulow is the lawyer who was brought on to the president's legal team because of his excellent tv communication skills. here he was this weekend.
>> do you accept what we heard from the president's pick to run the fbi that what should have happened there if, you know, a situation where you have representatives of a foreign government offering assistance in an election, that what should have happened is the fbi should have been notified? >> well, i've wondered why the secret service, if this was nefarious, why did the secret service allow these people in. >> the secret service doesn't comment on stuff like this, but after that guy went on tv and said that, they had to put out a statement saying, that's not how it works. donald trump jr. was not a protectee of the united states secret service in june 2016. thus, we would not have screened anyone he was meeting with at that time. the duh is silent. so the president has assembled a small team of lawyers to represent him in the most serious scandal afflicting any president in modern history. this guy, majinsky, sekulow,
he's one of the president's lawyers. apparently the president is keeping him. it has also been reported but not confirmed that the new lawyer that the president has brought on now to take over the russia defense will mean the demotion of his other lawyer who used to be in charge of his russia defense. i should tell you the new lawyer who the president is reportedly bringing on board will apparently be a member of the white house staff, which means that for him at least, you and i will be paying for his salary. other than him, though, it was reported last week that the president might be trying to make the republican party, the republican national committee, pay the expenses associate thd h his other lawyers. the rnc committee chair responded that she's not sure that would be legal. but for all the pieces of this that don't yet make sense, that we haven't yet tracked down and explained. i will tell you one piece is crystal clear. now we know why there was such urgency to start raising money for the president's re-election
campaign the day he was inaugurated. because they are paying a lot of their legal fees out of campaign funds for the president's family, for who knows how much of the campaign. that is how they are paying for at least some of their lawyers. so when you see somebody in a "make america great again" hat, which you paid the campaign to get, you know what that hat means? that hat means billable hours. billable hours being covered by that person in that hat whether or not they knew it when they bought it.
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arpaio. in the next hour, a lot more people are here. more than 10,000 people have signed up on facebook to participate in the protest. the rally begins in about two hours. right now, the police are doing a good job keeping both sides separate. the s.w.a.t. is here with rifles. >> gary, thank you very much. the mayor of phoenix opposed the president's visit. he is a democrat. in a recent op-ed, he accused the president of dousing racial tensions with gasoline and he fears he may be looking to light a match. i spoke to the mayor before we went on air. you called on the president not to come to phoenix. i'm wondering what your concern was, is it just the possibility of the protest, certainly there are a lot of trump supporters there that want to see him tonight. >> i felt after the tragedy in charlottesville, which happened just a short time ago, the president failed moral leadership after
charlottesville. his failure to condemn the racism and the nazis there, to have a campaign rally here in phoenix, arizona so shortly thereafter, you put it together, it was such a dangerous combination that i thought the rally was not the correct thing to do here in phoenix. >> are you concerned about what may happen tonight in terms of any conflict between protesters? >> tefirst, we have just receiv word that sarah huckabee sanders indicated that the president will not pardon sheriff joe arpaio tonight that. is a great victory for so many people that have been asking the president not to do that. that would be such a volatile thing to do. and because of that, i'm much more confident that today is going to be calm and peaceful. in addition, we're so lucky here in phoenix to have a great police chief, a great phoenix police department. they're working with federal and state authorities. they've got an incredibly complicated but good plan for
tonight. and i have the highest level of confidence that they're doing everything possible to make sure we're peaceful here in phoenix. >> you feel like if he has pardoned -- announced he was going to pardon sheriff arpaio in phoenix tonight, that would have been potentially incendiary? >> there is no doubt about it. the singular purpose would have been to inflame passion to pardon sheriff arpaio, who internationally is a cartoon character. but here locally it's possible. he terrorized the lives of so many latino residents. they couldn't go to school or work without fear of facing criminal sanctions for literally doing nothing. he faced a crime, a civil rights trial that he lost. and he was found to be in criminal contempt. so our sheriff has been criminally convicted. and for the president to do that at a campaign rally in front of 10,000 people would -- the only purpose would have been to
enflame passions. and yes, i was very concerned about what that might do on the streets of phoenix. because the president has backed off because of the advocacy of so many leaders here in phoenix, i have a much higher level of confidence that the rally and all of the people expressing their first amendment rights will do so in a peaceful environment in phoenix tonight. >> in front of an adoring crowd, the president often responds to the crowd and plays off the crowd, and we've also seen in the past sarah huckabee sanders saying one thing, the president doing something else. so it is still very possible tonight he will either speak about sheriff arpaio or announce that he's going to pardon him if that is what he intends to do. >> you are correct. he might do that. there's nothing we can do about that, other than his press secretary indicated it's not going to occur tonight in this politicized environment, so shortly after his failure of moral leadership, after the
tragedy in charlottesville. yes, if he were to go against what his press secretary said today, it would be a very bad thing and a potentially very volatile thing here in phoenix. >> what about -- you know, slightly more conciliatory tone he took last night at the beginning of his address to the nation about afghanistan, seemingly addressing the aftermath of charlottesville, although he never mentioned the community by name. were you impressed by that at all? >> no, i was not. and by the way, speaker paul ryan was not impressed either. i saw his town hall which he also acknowledged that the president fell short after charlottesville. so these been bipartisan condemnation of the failure of moral leadership by this president after the tragedy of charlottesville, which obviously these white supremacists openly marched. a young woman was tragically murdered by a neo-nazi, and the president should have been unequivocal that's not
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york times" national reporter shares the byline and joins me now. ummm, is mcconnell not sure that president trump will serve his full term? what does it mean he may not be able to salvage his presidency? >> he's expressing pessimism and frustration in a range of ways, anderson. but from the get-go of this story, it was clear that the senate leader is really telling people close to him, people who are supportive of his agenda in general and who he relies on to pass legislation and support the party on the national level, he no longer feels that president trump can be counted on to be a dependable partner for him in governing or in politics either. that goes for the 2018 elections, potentially 2020, as well. >> the last time they talked is august 9 in a phone call that ended up in a shouting match. >> so it's nearly two weeks ago was the last time they had any direct contact. there's been staff contact, but
republicans are coming up on a number of really important governing deadlines in september. at this stage of things, you would expect to have direct conversation with the president. really the most important man in congress, that is not happening. >> based on your reporting, part of the shouting match was over the president's anger that mitch mcconnell wasn't doing enough to protect him from the russian investigation? >> that's right. a couple of people briefed on the phone call said there was fuming about the health care issue, but really the great bulk of the call and most of the heat on the call was directed on that russia issue, the sense that this is out of control and republicans don't have any back. >> i want to read you something, an amazing detail. it says in a series of tweets this month, president trump criticized mitch mcconnell. so according to your sources,
the president believes the senate majority leader should be running interference on the russia investigation. >> he feels that republicans in congress ought to be not advancing what he views as investigations that are unfair and detrimental to his political interest. i think in some respects it reflects that the president is something of a political amateur. but it's also just a sign of the depth of his defensiveness on this issue. when ever you've had republicans criticize him on russia or maybe there's something there, it gets the president upset and he expressed that directly to senator mcconnell. >> it's so interesting what is the president's strategy on this, to not only publicly go after mitch mcconnell in tweets and comments, but to have this personal animosity and shouting matches. one wonders is there a strategy here or just president trump unable to control himself in >> certainly the sense on the
hill is that there is not this plan to get results from this congress. republican senators and donors do feel -- what's happening at this point is the president is holding grudges against members of his own party who he feels have processed him and he's more focused on those grudges than on crafting ledge heytive resulegi results. >> another piece says that she could only accompany him on air force one if she committed to voting for the health care bill. and she declined saying she hadn't seen the bill. >> we know there are hard feelings about the health care issue. i think the depth of those feelings is maybe a little more tense than is widely recognized. certainly fromfolks around mcconnell's operation, and he has through his behavior, made it harder to do anything else, like tax reform or even basic stuff like funding the
government. >> incredible reporting. thanks so much. join joining us now is leon panetta and david gergen, who has worked for presidents in both parties. secretary panetta, how significant is it that mcconnell is questioning whether the president can salvage the mess he's made of his presidency? >> well, it's a very important statement that reflects a real breakdown between the president and the majority leader in the senate. look, i know mitch mcconnell. he is a -- he's a pragmatist. he's somebody who likes to get things done. he works at his job, and i think the fact that he fought very hard for the health care bill, lost it by one vote. to then have the president come after him and be critical of what he did, particularly a president who is all over the
place on health care, from repeal to covering everybody, and then use some of the strong arm tactics that you talked about that blew up. i just think it's a reflection at this point in time that there is a real breakdown between the president of the united states and the leader of his party in the senate. and it doesn't bode well for getting anything done this fall on major issues. >> david, do you see a strategy here by president trump to do this? have you ever seen a relationship between a president and his party's leader in the senate that's more dysfunctional? >> i don't see any strat skri at a -- strategy at all. i see a temperament problem, how well suited donald trump is or not suited for working with the senate. it's so important to go back to the basics.
the senate and the house are co-equal -- form a co-equal branch of government under the constitution. they are as powerful and to be as respected as the presidency itself. in fact, it's article i is about the congress and article ii is about the president. the founders saw the congress more important. but to go beyond that, the senate members still think of themselves as belonging to a club. each party has its own club. and for mcconnell, who is a proud man, this is insulting to be treated this way by the president, and it is driving him away from the president. interestingly, that fascinating story in "the new york times" says that the business leaders who deserted the president have now started to gravitate to mcconnell as the person they ought to work with. this could well turn out to believe, before its over, that
mcconnell and other republicans will say we'll just run this ourselves mr. president, we'll send you the bill and you sign it. >> we have to take a quick break. we'll continue the conversation next and dig deeper into the implications of the republican party and the president at war. >> our new president has not been in this line of work before. and i think had excessive expectations about how quickly things happen. >> mitch, get to work and let's get it done. opportunity sales event before it ends. choose from the is turbo, es 350 or nx turbo for $299 a month for 36 months if you lease now. experience amazing at your lexus dealer. hey. what can you tell me about your new social security alerts? oh! we'll alert you if we find your social security number on any one of thousands of risky sites, so you'll be in the know. ooh. sushi. ugh. being in the know is a good thing. sign up online for free. discover social security alerts.
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attacked republican senators from arizona and the majority leader. how long can this go on before it blows up politically? i just want to remind you of some of the things the president has said publicly about mitch mcconnell. >> i'm very disappointed in mitch. but honestly, repeal and replace of obamacare should have taken place. mitch, get to work and let's get it done. they should have had this last one done. they lost by one vote. for a thing like that to happen is a disgrace. he should have known that he had a couple of votes that turned on him, and that should have been very easy to handle. >> should he step down? >> if he doesn't get repeal and replace done and if he doesn't get taxes done, meaning cuts and reform, and if he doesn't get a very easy one to get done, infrastructure, if he doesn't get them done, then ask me that question. >> secretary panetta, i asked this to david gergen before we went to break.
do you see a strategy here? is it a way that the president distancing himself from the failure over obamacare or is it just emotion? >> there is no strategy here. i think what you're seeing is a president who has very little experience in governing. very little experience in politics. and he's taking the same kind of approach that he did when he was a developer in new york, in bullying other people, in criticizing them, and in trying to bully them into doing what he wants. and it worked for him, not only in the business world, it worked for him when he ran for election. and so he thinks all of this will work for him in governing the country. but it's not. you cannot bully members of congress to somehow come your way. you've got to deal with them.
you've got to respect them. you've got to talk to them in equal terms. and if he doesn't learn that lesson, mark my word, he will not achieve any major legislation, certainly in this first year of his presidency. >> david gergen, i keep thinking about just the toxic environment the president seems to create all around him, whether it's a relationship with mitch mcconnell right now, or people in white house, these competing camps that we've seen in the white house. for months now, the white house has been deny thing's any chaos. those clearly were just lies. we now know there's been complete kay uchaos. you now have strong people, h.r. mcmaster and others that want to do good work for the country. when there was talk that gary cohen might step down, the markets dropped. it just seems like the president creates a toxic environment for all those around him who are
trying to do the best they can. >> i agree. it goes back to what leon just said. that's the way he did business in new york, the way he conducted business. you can talk to any number of people that did business with him there that tried to bully him, tried to strong arm him and would get very aggressive if they didn't go along with what he wanted. that's just who he is. it's time to reject the excuse that he's an amateur. he's been on the job seven months. he wanted this job. it's not an excuse any longer, well, i don't know my way around. i've seen a lot of presidents who come to town who are not familiar in washington, but they learn on the job quickly. bill clinton was an example of that. it took him a while, he stumbled in the beginning, but he learned and he grew into the job. and we haven't seen that here. one of the things, anderson,
that's really interesting, we see a little more order and we saw it in afghanistan, the generals clearly are starting to have some impact inside on at least policymaking on afghanistan. but the generals don't know anything about politics, either. i don't see the team around him that knows much about governing and about the politics of trying to build the republican party. >> secretary panetta, how important is that to have that team around him? it seems like with h.r. mcmaster, cohen, he has a lot of experts in their field on policy, but politics is a whole other different matter. >> the president, i think, thinks that he's the smartest guy in the room. and that's the biggest mistake a president can make. and i think when it comes to political decisions, when it comes to decisions involving domestic policy, i don't think
he listens very well. and so the result is, he hasn't been willing to build the kind of team that he built on national security. he's built a strong team on national security. thank god he's willing to listen to them. what he needs to do is to build that same kind of team when it comes to the legislative challenges he faces on the hill. the economic challenges that are facing this country. he's got to be able to have a team that can do the job, because frankly, he can't do it. he's not built right to be able to do this. he's going to have to rely on good people who are willing to reach out and try to develop coalitions in the republican party, respect the leaders on both sides, and try to develop the kind of coalition that can pass tax reform, that can pass funding for infrastructure, and do the things he wants to achieve. if he's not willing to do that, then i think nothing is going to happen.
>> i appreciate your time. thank you. when we come back, what do you wear on a government plane on a visit to one of the poorest states in the country? if you're the treasury secretary's wife, you wear as much designer clothing as you can, then you instagram about it and belittle somebody who criticizes you for it. the latest on her, ahead. un-stop right there!
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the treasury secretary's wife, louise linton, posted an instagram photo bragging about her wealth, tagging luxury designers clothe's she was wearing and flaunting a hand bag that cost about $10,000. when an oregon mom commented that her behavior was deplorable, and linton hit back. this was all during a trip to kentucky, where the median income is less than $44,000. randi kaye has the story. >> reporter: the controversy took flight after her plane landed when steve mnuchin's wife posted on instagram. bragging about flying with her husband on a government plane to kentucky to visit ft. knox. she has a reputation for flaunting her wealth and appeared to be carrying a handbag that sells for about $10,000. mnuchin's 36-year-old wife then tagged a series of luxury
designers. linton's instagram started to pick up steam. one instagramer, who was offended by the post, was an oregon mom named jenny miller. glad we could pay for your little getaway, #deplorable. >> i didn't know who she was. to then be tagging everything she was wearing with all these expensive european designer names just seemed ridiculous and quite frankly, offended me as someone who paid for part of their trip. >> reporter: but it didn't end in. instead of letting it go, she ripped into the oregon mother of three, with a long, konld se condescending rant. she said, cute, ahh, did you think this was a personal trip? adorable. before it was over, linton called miller adorably out of touch, suggesting she go chill out and watch the new "game of
thrones." >> there are probably better ways to spend her time and money than trying to make me feel bad about my simple, cute life. >> reporter: luis linton, a former actress, has long touted her wealth and hollywood lifestyle. of all things she played marie antoinette on "csi." keep in mind, they were visiting kentucky, one of the poorest states in the country. that only added to jenny miller's frustration, who felt linton could have done something to help the children of kentucky instead of bragging about her expensive wardrobe. jenny miller didn't even know that linton had responded to her, until her sister told her about it. >> it was as tone deaf as her original post, and that it was very ironic that she was calling me out of touch and assuming things about me and just being so condescending and so incredibly rude.
>> reporter: jenny miller didn't drop it either, posting again, apparently i offended this deplorable girl i had never heard of until today. according to my 22nd google search, she's married to an old rich guy in a wedding attended by other couples of similar age and beauty gaps. but that post never made it to linton's instagram page. by then she changed the setting to private. this was hardly the first time linton was caught up in controversy. last year, the memoir she wrote about her time in zambia in the '90s when she was just 18 also got her in hot water. in the book titled "in congo shadow" she painted herself as what critics called a white savior, when she wrote about becoming a central character in the horror story of the war in the congo. she wrote, i try to remember a smiling, gap-toothed child with hiv, whose greater joy was to
sit on my lap and drink from a bottle of coca-cola. "the washington post" says the book was panned as racist and full of misrepresentations and ridiculous cliches about africa. she later apologized for offending anyone and pulled the book from sale. >> randi kaye joins me now. today, another apology from linton. >> reporter: absolutely. this afternoon, she issued a statement through her publicist saying, i apologize for my post on social media yesterday as well as my response. it was inappropriate and highly insensitive. in addition to that, the treasury department has said the couple will be reimbursing the government for linton's travel and she does not receive compensation for products she mentions on line. anderson? >> why does she have a public t publicist? is she an actress? >> she was an actress from
scotland. she's done a little bit of television. but she also has done some acting as well in hollywood. >> all right. thank you very much. what do you make of this, kirsten? >> well, i mean, first of all, the post came off as something you would expect from not just a teenager, but a very nasty teenager. this was just really kind of unbelievable how nasty she was to this woman. you know, separate from the fact that it's just bad judgment to be the wife of a public servant posting these kinds of pictures with all these hash tags of expensive things. that bag that she was carrying ranges between $10,000 and into the hundreds of thousands. >> for the bag? >> yes, for the purse she was carrying. this is -- when you're going to a state where -- the whole country there's a lot of
suffering. but in that state in particular. >> looking at this photograph that she posted, that's not a photograph she took, but a photograph she had to search out somebody else took or asked somebody to take or somehow she searched it out and intentionally posted it. and it's not just that she hash tagged the designers, she tagged the items in the photograph, so that any time anyone searches for that bag, that photo will pop up if you look under hermes bag. this is what teenagers do. it's all about exclusion. not only showing how great a time you're having and how great you are, but that other people are not having this time. and that's what this seems to be about. how do you see it? >> clearly, i think as randi said in her piece, she played marie antoinette, who is famous
for saying, let them eat cake. so to the degree you said in terms of what all you have to do to get this on, it's way beyond with me with regard to the dwram. b -- instagram. but she went out of her way to do this. we're seeing this with others in this administration that have money is they just don't understand that what they're saying and what they're doing is out of touch with the average american person. and as they were just returning from kentucky, those people, average median income, about $0,0$ $40,000. they just don't understand that kind of post and extravagance and calling attention to it is insulting to the american person. >> the people's billionaire people referred to him during the convention. what is's so concerning about this, the things she said to this woman, is this idea that they're making this huge sacrifice by working for the president of the united states. her husband is working for the
president of the united states. he's the head of the treasury department in the united states of america, and it's a sacrifice to her to be married to this person. we all know it's not because he's making a billion dollars this year or however much he used to make. that mentality, which we also hear from the trumps a lot, of how much they have given up to serve in the government. when in fact for most people serving in the government is a huge honor. >> the honor of most people's lives. >> exactly. >> a couple things to point out that are moot points at this point because we're well beyond this. but it's not uncommon for spouses to travel with cabinet members and others in the administration. they need to reimburse the cost of the travel. and moving forward, i think it's imperative, one of the things that she says, she's talking about the sacrifice. it's a blessing to do this. and if nothing else, this is an important lesson to learn. she's not a public figure being a spouse of a cabinet member. but it's an important lesson
that everything you say and do, not just represents you, but in turn the administration. so hopefully this h be a good lesson for her that in the future you need to be more careful what you say and the implications. >> so if she's using her vast resources to employ a publicist, and i don't know if the publicist had anything to do with this photograph, but maybe consult the publicist, somebody with a clear head, or even ask the husband, is this a good idea for me to like be -- >> i don't understand why they don't know this. i don't understand why they don't already know that this isn't a good idea. that's why i'm getting lost. i don't understand people that think attacking somebody in that manner on instagram, your adorable little family because they're not super wealthy, i am just lost as to why someone has to educate this woman about that. >> i mean, let's be honest, it's tacky and disgusting.
it's vulgar. my mom always said, she knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. she knows the price of her purse and she wants everybody to know she's wearing whoever underwear. >> that will be the next hash tag. i think her apology was sincere. it wasn't one of those apologies that, i'm sorry if i offended you. >> and it was eight hours too late. you're just a sweet heart. >> the woman who responded to her, they're trying to raise money for her friend who had a stroke. so hopefully that person will receive a lot of money from her. >> thanks. coming up next, tensions boiled over last night in charlottesville city council meeting. when the meeting resumed, protesters sounded off. we'll talk about their outrage when we continue. when you have allergies, it can seem like triggers pop up everywhere.
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spiraled out of control, when protes protesters took over. they said lawmakers have blood on their hands. ed lavendera has more. >> but that's not the rules. we don't do that. >> reporter: this was just the beginning of the charlottesville city council meeting. demonstrators filled the chambers, and within minutes, took control of the room. >> you've been called to order so yul have to be removed. >> reporter: police removed and arrested three people from the chambers, two protesters climbed on top of the council member's podium, and unfurled a banner that read "blood on your hands." demonstrators blamed city leaders for not stopping the unite the right rally. organized by white nationalists and neo nazis that led to the death of heather heyer and two virginia state police officers killed when their helicopter crashed while on patrol near the clashes. >> blood on your hands! >> somebody's got to be held accountable for not only the blood of those three lives but for every jeer thinjury that ha this past weekend. >> reporter: the city council
members left the room and shortly after the televised feed cut off. when the meeting resumed, charlottesville residents unleashed a furious litany of criticism on the council especially mayor michael singer. >> you guys need to wake up and smell what you're shoveling. you really do. we need you to have a solution. we need you to protect our city. >> i warned you. i've had enough. we've all had, absolutely had enough. the statue needs to come down. you need to grow a [ bleep ] spine. get the statues down, all of them. get them down. >> reporter: demonstrators accused city officials and police of not doing enough to protect the counterprotesters on the streets. >> all had multiple opportunities to intervene and did not intervene one time. >> we tried really hard to get the rally out and a federal judge -- a federal judge forced us to have the rally downtown. >> reporter: again, mayor singer shut down the meeting and left the room. >> i'm canceling this meeting. >> reporter: the mayor returned
to chants that he should resign. >> singer must go! singer must go! >> what are you all going to do when they come back? because they are coming back. they've already said so. what are you all planning to do when they come back? those statues are still there. that's their beacon. >> reporter: city leaders have taken the first steps to remove the two confederate statutes in charlottesville but that will take some time to work out. in the meantime, city leaders plan to cover the monuments in a shroud until they're removed permanently. it's a move that likely won't calm many in charlottesville, as city leaders brace for an open town hall meeting on thursday. ed lavendera, cnn, new york. >> with the president facing criticism for his comments on the violence in charlottesville, as we mentioned h eed he is out tonight in arizona where he hopes to flplay to his base at campaign rally. he'll be greeted by supporters and protesters in the streets. crowds gathered at the phoenix convention center where he'll speak in about an hour. miguel marquez is there. what are the crowds like where you are, miguel?
>> reporter: well, they are growing and angry. shouts of justice and shame as the trump supporters go into the arena there. i'm going to show you some of the groups that have shown up here. antifa, militant anti-fascist group just showed up here in masks. they say they are not intent on causing any militant action today. but i want to give you a sense of just how big this crowd is here. it's probably 2,000, 2,000-plus. people keep pouring in from over on this side, but if you turn around this way, you can see over there by those balloons, that's where the main brunt of the cloud crowd is, that's where the convention center is, that's where they are shouting at the trump supporters as they go into the convention center. still an hour away from the president actually speaking here. it's not clear whether these crowds are going to stay. phoenix police treating this like a major event like the super bowl, essentially, saying it is all hands on deck for them. they have all law enforcement agenciy ies including the natio guard on alert for this hoping
nothing goes wrong. i can tell you, there is a very, very big contingent of police here. one thing that they have done, they've blocked off streets around the area so that no one can drive a car into this. they have the dump trucks and barriers across all the streets of this area hoping they can stave off any sort of issues. there were some moments earlier today where the direct -- where there was direct sort of confrontation between trump supporters and people who do not agree with the president, but those seem to have calmed down. phoenix police using mainly officers who are ununiformed, literally, to get in between the protesters on both sides. let them have their say, but at the same time, not let it get beyond just screaming and shouting. anderson? >> all right, migmiguel, we're going to check in with you throughout the next hour. up next, we'll take you inside the convention center, see what's going on there, as we await the president's speech in phoenix.
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clearance was a meeting that he took at trump tower during the transition where he hosted the head of another russian bank. jared kushner met with the head of a russian bank called veb bank. it's a bank but really just an entity of the russian government. the leadership of veb bank is hand picked by lad peer putin and veb bank's connections with russian intelligence are not subtle. sergei gorkov is a graduate of the fsb academy which means he went to kgb grad school. veb bank was coordination of a spy ring, that was the russian spying investigation where carter page was found by the fbi to have been essentially a willing target for those russian spies. at least he was a source of information for those russian spies who were looking for
americans to give them investigation to help them with their spying efforts against america from their home base in new york where they were ostensibly working for veb bank but really they were spies. so there was the alfa bank servers communicating with the trump organization for some reason. what's that russian bank got to do with anything. then in the transition there's jared kushner meeting with the head of veb bank for some reason. what's that russian bank got to do with it. then not long after trump got inaugurated along comes another inexplicable seemingly random intersection between trump world and another russian bank. the next one we learned about was i think the biggest russian bank of all, a bank called sberbank which announced in march they hired new counsel to represent them in a civil case that was filed in new york. sberbank was accused of rigging the granite mining industry in
rush. in march, sberbank in the middle of the case, they made a lot of eyebrows arch in the legal news when they announced they chosen their new counsel for that long comped expensive case and they said their new counsel was going to be donald trump's personal lawyer, marc kazowitz. ratin right? marc kasowitz heading follow-up trump's legal team on the russian investigation. if you're the lawyer coordinating defense for the u president of the united states facing a criminal investigation from the fib while he's serving as the president of the united states, you would think you are too busy to take on other clients. but if there are people wanting to know what's going on in the russian investigation, it may be
handy to have conversations undercov the cover of attorney-client privilege with the lead laush on twyer on the information. maybe the alfa bank thing was a coincidence. maybe the veb jared kushner meeting was a coincidence. maybe the sberbank thing was a coinciden coincidence. maybe it has nothing to do with donald trump and whether or not he has an illicit relationship financial or otherwises with russia which explains why russia tried to hack or election and rig it in his behalf. maybe none of those bank connections, alfa bank, veb bank, sberbank, maybe none of them have anything to do with the russian involvement to disrupt or election. y
if you want to talk about donald trump, until today the only so spirks banking relationship we've known about him recently isn't with any russian bank, it's with deutsche bank. deutsche bank is the bank that donald trump owes hundreds of millions of dollars to. deutsche bank is the bank that departme dealt with donald trump for years when no other banks would. deutsche bank continued to lend president trump hundreds of millions of dollars for deals even when he was unable to pay them walk on early loans, and he went so far as to file lawsuits against deutsche bank because she failed to pay them back. there are aspects of the donald trump-deutsche bank relationship that have seemed unexplained by the bounds of normal financial business dealings. deutsche bank on the surface appears to have been uncommonly
generous to him and forgiving of him. deutsche bank gave jared kushner several hundred millions of dollars in loans right before the election, loans that jared kushner personally guaranteed which made it all the more unusual that he failed to disclose those loans of dollars. deutsche bank has been plagued by its legal liability for a multimillion dollar russia money laundering scheme. but you know after today, the deutsche bank russian money laundering case will no longer be seen as the connection between donald trump and it comes to the russia investigation. there was alfa bank with the server thing, veb bank with the carter page connection and
sberbank hiring trump's russia lawyer. there's all of these russian banks getting strange new storing roles in american politics. there's another one, alfa bank, veb bank, sbe rrbank and anothe one called vtb bank, sanctioned by the u.s. government as punishment for crimea because this bank is seen as the russian government. it's an arm of the russian government and that's how the u.s. government views them. in fact if you go to vtb's website tonight, click on about vtb and they'll tell you in exact mathematical terms how they're controlled by the russian government. the russian government owns and controls 69% of the vtb bank, the majority shareholder of the vtb bank is the russian government. what that means in plain english
is that putin runs vtb. putin controls the bank and what it does and what it spends on. and today we learn that up until last year, up until the middle of the presidential campaign vtb bank was lined up and committed to provide hundreds of millions of dollars in financing to build trump tower moscow. the russian government was going to do that deal. actually even without the knowledge that the financing for this deal was going to come from the russian government, it's still a heck of a bombshell. this is not some old deal that happened back in the past that people may have forgotten about. this is not something that trump worked on in the '90s and it fell apart. this is what he was working on in the campaign after he announced he was running for president, months into his presidential campaign when hi was full on running for president he was trying do this deal with the russian government in moscow. quoting from carol's story in f
the washington post, trump posted numerous supportive comments about putin on the campaign trail setting himself apart from his republican rivals for the republican nomination. remember when trump warned that if robert mueller wanted to go looking into any of his business dealings that would be crossing a red line because clearly none of those personal financial interests or business dealings had anything to do with russia, that would be crossing a red line? well now we know that his business, the trump organization had everything to do with russia, even during the campaign. and we probably should have seen this coming. back in may we should have seen this coming when donald trump's lawyers started hiring their wnn lawyers. miken cohen has been donald trump's lawyer, his personal lawyer at times, a trump organization executive and lawyer. when trump started flirting with and running for president in the
last election cycle mike. cohen was his top and most of the time his only political adviser. michael cohen is close to trump, he is trump's lawyer and he did hire his own lawyer this spring. and he confirmed that the attorneys investigating the russia affair asked him to give testimony and hand over documents. michael cohen's response was no, i won't. the committee subpoenaed him to testify and hand over documents. he's due to testify next week but apparently today he handed over document to the house intelligence committee and some of those documents and a long statement about them found their way to certain reporters and publications upon the handover of these document to congress. and just to reads between the lines a little bit, it does not appear that what happened here is michael cohen handed stuff over to congress and congress leaked it. i'm speak in terms of reading between the lines.
the way that this is phrased and described in the reporting tonight is that michael cohen handed this stuff over to the house intelligence committee and in so doing gave some of it to reporters and a statement about it to reporters. to put the best possible spin on that information himself before investigators themselves consist start chewing on it and putting it u out in their own terms. and in this case the best possible spin is still pretty bad. the bottom line is that while trump was insisting publicly that he had no deals with russia and while he was questioned repeatedly about why he was being so bent over backwards positive about vladimir putin and russia throughout the campaign, he never thought to mention and apparently nobody in the trump organization or the trump campaign thought to mention that during the presidential campaign for five months of the presidential campaign the trump organization
was aggressively over seeing construction. an intent to proceed with the project october twoif. michael cohen spoke with trump three times directly about the project. michael cohen also wrote directory to the kremlin, to vladimir putin's spokesman to ask for direct kremlin help in restarting discussions about the building project which by then he said was stalled. the other trump organization figure involved in these negotiations is someone we've talked about before named felix seder. a russian bonn ex-con convicted of a $40 million mafia connected scheme. in 2015 trump in a sworn deposition professed to not be able to recognize felix seder if he had been sitting in that room that day. it's a little hard to believe
felix seder had been associated with the trump organization for years. carried a trump business card that described himself as senior adviser to donald trump even after trump said he wouldn't recognize him if he were in the room. by 2013 apparently felix seder was recognizable again because he was working with michael cohen to make the trump-moscow thing happen and trump was signing off on the letter of intent to move forward with it. michael cohen i think has to testify to house intel next week. he handed over document to house intel today. his strategy in so doing is to try to spin what he's handed over in the best possible way. it also appears to try to play down the importance of felix seder and his involvement in this project, especially seder's comments in the e-mails that have been handed over to congress now and to some reports in which felix seder brags that there's something about this real estate deal in moscow that in the end will result in donald
trump becoming president of the united states. quote, our boy can become president of the usa and we can engineer it. i will get all of putin's team to buy in on this. i will manage this process. felix seder wrote to in michael cohen. michael, arranged for ivanka to sit in vladimir putin's chair at the kremlin. i know how to play it. we will get this done. michael cohen's strategy in releasing these documents to the press involves him playing down whether or not felix seder really could have been sirius -- serious about that. over the course of my business dealings with fe lakes seder he has sometimes used colorful language and been prone to salesmanship. when the times today went to check out felix seder's both
that he was so connected he was able to arrange for ivanka trump to sit in putin's private chair at his desk in his office at the kremlin. the response from team ivanka was not exactly on brand. ivanka trump told the times she did in fact take a brief tour of red square and the kremlin when she was in moscow with felix seder but insists she was only there as a tourist. i have to say it does not seem that she had a totally typical tourist experience sbauz quote she said it is possible that she sat in mr. putin's chair. but maybe that's just a coincidence or don't all tourist visitor to the kremlin get to sit in putin's chair. alfa bank, veb bank, sberbank
and vtb bank the russian government agreeing to finance to the tune millions of dollars to a project that no one admitted to that was happening prior to the campaign. probably just a coincidence. a lot going on today. lots happening in the news. carol joins us next. stay with us. these days families want to be connected 24/7.
new, more reliable equipment for your home. and a new culture built around customer service. it all adds up to our most reliable network ever. one that keeps you connected to what matters most. trump-russia investigation is sort of built on stlee ideas, three questions. one is u.s. intelligence agencies saying the russian government interfered in the presidential election to try to help trump win. two, there are allegations about whether the trump campaign
colluded with or helped the russians conduct that meddling during the election. and three, there are questions about the absolute denials from our new president that he has anything to do with russia. beyond that one beauty pageant he held there. the reason while his dealings with russia and his statements are of investigative interest is because investigators need to figure out in which there's some way in which she's compromised when it comes to russia. what that means is investigators need to figure out if russia holds something over him. do they know something, do they have documentation of something that she's done that he would not like them to reveal to the public. right? that's the essence of being compromised. being in a position where for some secret reason you feel the
need to ingratiate yourself to a foreign power or at least not say no when they come calling. it boils down to this stuff. the trump campaign is alleged to have helped in that effort being investigated. and our now president says he's had nothing to do with russia, nothing. that's why this is a heck of a bombshell. top trump executive organization asked putin aide for help business deal. top exec from trump's real estate company e-mailed putin's personal spokesman during the campaign last year to ask for help. that is submitted today by a trump executive who has been trump's personal lawyer and who served as trump's political adviser for the start of his campaign while he was having trump sign a letter of intent to go forward with trump tower
moscow to be financed by a russia-government run bank. joining us now is carol lenning, reporter for the washington post. thank you for being here. congratulations on the scoop. you broke this story yesterday about the trump organization trying to build a tower in moscow early in the campaign. what you report in this story and what the president said about his dealings with russia seem to me to be very much at odds. do you feel like what you've been able to report really contradict the way the president has characterized his own dealings in russia? >> i don't think it catches him in a horrid absolute lie. what it shows is that he hasn't been forth right about how eager he was, while a presidential candidate, to let his trump organization and his executive vice president pursue a very
potentially lucrative deal in moscow. there are debates about how valuable it would be to him. but i think that there's something bigger behind what we've learned in the story that we broke on sunday night and the news story that we broke this afternoon. i think there's something much bigger in the fabric here and you kind of only learn it as each piece comes. but the bigger thing is while donald trump's sort of third son, michael cohen, a long time friend, ally, not his son by birth but while this person is working, negotiating a deal in moscow to develop and license moscow trump tower, a russi russian-born friend of his is saying, hey, if we make this deal the president can get elected. it's going to make him look like such a great incredible negotiator. and hey, i'm connected in russia and i can get vladimir putin to
start saying nice things about this, you know, kind of distant horse gop hopeful. when we learn in our more recent story that at the same time michael cohen, this long-time ally of donald trump's, is reaching out to extremely high ranking friend of vladimir putin's saying i'd like your help. we're stalled. we would like to get this deal done, nudge nudge wink wink we know how it works in russia. you need to go to putin. and said we'd like your help. so that's a pretty dramatically different thing than what the president has said which is i have zero interest in russia, zero deals, nothing going on there. >> when felix seder connects this deal to trump's chances at becoming president, is it clear why he sees those two things connected? he said, wow, this will make him
look like a great negotiator. i'm not sure i get his argument or the credibility of his argument in terms of why he thought these things were connected. 's very provocative to see somebody saying we're doing this deal and it will result in trump becoming president. we're doing a financial deal and it will result in his winning the election. but i don't get why he was connecting the two ideas. >> it could have been inkred wbl braggadocio commentary or somebody doing something a little different. but remember at this time vladimir putin is pretty angry with the u.s. he views himself on a bit of a revenge mission and he also wants to look like he has some da taunt. it appears that he thinks he can create a nonadversarial relationship with donald trump.
and fe lix seder again, this russian-born broker long connected with donald trump and has introduced him since 2013 to fairly significant russian money men, this guy is saying look, this is good for putin and this is good for you, donald. he's telling this to michael cohen. you will look like you have negotiated with one of america's toughest adversaries. it happens that that would also be beneficial to lod mere putvl. it would look like he had a good relationship with the u.s. >> it is a bizarre reading of how it would have been greeted had that deal gone through. just understanding how the news workings and how people were treating trump. this is such a puzzle but the fabric here is absolutely stunning. and i have a feeling there's a lot -- this feels like the start of a lot of reporting in terms of us getting to understand this part of the campaign.
carol from the washington post, really appreciate your time tonight. congratulations again on this scoop. >> thanks, rachel. the city of hugh stan today has been making hard choices on how to imagine the epic flooding that's innone dated the american city. we've got an expert to ask about this stuff. that story is ahead. plus the little bit of news we're going to break on the russia dossier. that's all ahead. stay with us. highest in investor satisfaction with full service brokerage firms... again. and online equity trades are only $4.95... i mean you can't have low cost and be full service. it's impossible. it's like having your cake and eating it too. ask your broker if they offer award-winning full service and low costs. how am i going to explain this? if you don't like their answer, ask again at schwab. schwab, a modern approach to wealth management. jimmy's gotten used to his whole yup, he's gone noseblind. odors. he thinks it smells fine, but his mom smells this...
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houston, texas is basically flat. it's america's fourth largest city with an elevation of 50 feet. houston is in a flat and watery part of the world with the gulf of mexico on one side and bayous running all through the city. since 1960 houston has suffered more deaths an property loss from flooding than any other locality in the country. and the people of houston has developed ways of trying to keep the water from winning. today with this huge, huge storm they tried one of their more desperate measures. there are two big dams on the west side of houston that hold by reservoirs, designed to keep water upstream from houston proper, to keep the water from rushing into the flooded bayous in downtown houston. this is how the reservoirs looked before the storm. after the storm the water had begun rising high enough and
fast enough that officials feared the dams themselves would be overcome. to save the dams to keep holding back the gigantic quantities of water held in those reservoirs, they opened the billways enough to let some of the water out of the reservoirs. in so doing they flooded the neighborhoods in the path of that water that they had to let out then they don't do it gratuitously. they did it in a way to save the dams, save more people. it's a difficult choice that no mayor, no engineer ever wants to have to make. might have been the best choice they had today in houston, though. how do you imagine a ka tas tro fie like this while not only is it under way it is nod ending anytime soon. what is houston's options right now in responding to the continuing flooding. we're going to be joined next by somebody whose job it is to grapple with these exact questions. stay with us. ♪
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and right now save 50% on the labor day limited edition bed. explore your treatment options with specialists who treat only cancer. every stage... every day.... at cancer treatment centers of america. learn more at cancercenter.com/experts rosita's family was rescued by boat this afternoon. >> it's rising way too fast. >> they live west of houston where in an unprecedented move the army corps of engineers is doing controlled releases from two reservoirs before the storm moves away. it's and efforts to reduce the risk of destructive flooding and lessen the chance of the dams busting. >> everything started happening really fast this morning. >> you weren't flooded before
then? >> not yet, no. the waters were rising but we weren't flooded. i understand they have to do what they have to do to save houston but that accelerated the process. >> they have to do what they have to do to save houston. this is reporting about a family directed affected by the controlled release. even on day four of this disaster in houston, people who are not flooded yet may yet find they're flooded tomorrow or the next day as the effects of the storm continue to crescendo and as officials make hard decisions. joining us is jim black burn, codirector of the speed center. it was established ten years ago to address severe storms and their impact on the gulf coast area. thank you for joining us toni t tonight. >> thank you. >> today the army corps of
engineers decided to ep up the reservoirs. as far as i understand it's basically a way to save the dam to preserve the integrity of the reservoirs, to save a greater amount of people. the short term result is that some neighborhoods face new or worsened flooding. you've studied these things. what do you make of that decision they made today? >> that decision is based on these dams being evaluated as two of the six most dangerous in the united states by the corps. that's both in terms of risk of failure and the population affected downsteam. we've never seen this much rain before and they made i think the prudent decision, although very difficult decision to go ahead and begin to release water while also filling up the reservoir. but i don't think the reservoirs are intended to be used at full capacity which is a tragedy because we need every ounce of flood control that we've got? >> in terms of the flood control options, what kind of tools do they have at their disposal?
what kind of decisions are they going to be making today, tonight, tomorrow as the storm continues to play out? >> i think we've got some of the most difficult decisions -- i would say these are decisions that frankly we will be facing every coastal city in the future. we've never seen a rain like this. on the other hand, there's a lot of options that houston has never really seriously considered before. we've always approached flooding from the standpoint of quote unquote controlling it. primarily with engineer solutions. and there are aare the of nonstructural alternatives. we're going to have to pull out a whole new bag of approaches that require creativity and that require you know really trying to come up with new and different ways of solving these problems. we cannot solve these problems by thinking the way that we've been thinking. we've got to come up with better, new ideas. >> given not only the size of houston but its critical location, things like the
houston ship channel and the oil refineries there and all of the infrastructure there, some of which can be dangerous to human beings and other forms of life when it is put in danger. given what houston is and what's at risk here, what's been in the way of houston coming up with better decision to deal with flooding? it is striking that a city with that much chemical and oil infrom strauk chur is also the most flooded locality in the united states. >> well i think first of all, it's sometimes difficult to get the officials to really envision the magnitude of storms that we actually are foreseeing. we've foreseen, for example, something that didn't happen in this storm, which would be a hurricane with a large surge, perhaps 20 to 25 feet come in and hitting the houston ship channel. i've had several people tell me that's unrealistic. if we had modelled and presented the scenario that is unfolding, we would have been accused of
coming up with unrealistic future scenarios. one thing is trying to get people to really be open minded about what the risks are. because i think we're really at a time of unprecedented risk with the heat, the gulf of mexico is extremely warm, among the warmest if not the warmest of the oceans of the world and it is a virtual heat pump into a hurricane. and that is a huge source of power for these storms. >> professor blackburn, i read that since 1989 what they call a hundred-year storm, a storm that's only supposed to happen in 100 years, since 1989 that's happened six times in houston. are you saying this isn't just a houston issue, this is a climate change issue in terms of how we anticipate the magnitude of storms and flooding? >> it's the type of things that they've been predingt in the sense that our normal distribution of storms is
changing and will be skewing to more severe events. that's what we're seeing. we've seen two 500-year storms in the last ten years in certain parts of town. and i have no idea what this storm is going to evaluate as but certainly way beyond a hundred-year storm. i think the year hundred-year rainfall is virtually meaningless today. and the faederal emergency management are the ones who come up with this. and i think this affecting everybody in the united states. i think houston has a chance to be a trendsetter if are the country in figuring out how to cope and deal with these kind of new unprecedented storm events. but it's going to take every bit of creativity that we have. >> jim black busch codirector of the speed center at rice university in houston. thank you for helping us understand this. this is very sobering coming from you. >> really appreciate your taking
the time, rachel. all right. we've got more ahead tonight. stay with us.
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months before sheriff arpaio's case even went to trial, the president looked into quashing the arpaio prosecution altogether. quote, asked attorney general jeff sessions whether it would be possible for the government to drop the criminal case against arpaio, but the president was advisesd that woud be inappropriate. a short time later, "the new york times" published its version, reporting that the president brought up the possibility of quashing the arpaio prosecution not just with attorney general jeff sessions but also with the white house counsel. okay. here's my question. if the president asked the a.g. and the white house counsel if they could maybe drop the arpaio prosecution somehow, is that potentially a legal problem for the president? where's the line between, hey, i'm just asking for a friend and obstructing justice? we got some expert advice on that today. former u.s. attorney barbara mcquade. you've seen her here on our show numerous times. tonight she tells us that this
could be a separate count of obstruction of justice against the president if the president tried to interfere with the prosecution that's being investigated in terms of the comey firing. conceivably that could be investigated or pursued in this case. she also told us this, quote, if sessions or anybody else explained to trump that it is inappropriate to interfere with a criminal investigation before trump attempted to do so with former fbi director james comey, that could help establish that trump understood that what he was doing in firing james comey was illegal. ah, so in other words, this might get rid of his ignorance defense. if the president was told explicitly that he's really not allowed to interfere in a criminal investigation of joe arpaio, then he was in a position to know explicitly that he shouldn't interfere in the fbi investigation of michael flynn by pressuring james comey about that. so that's what we heard from former federal prosecutor barbara mcquade. we also asked bob bauer today,
he cited the unusual nature of the arpaio pardon coming before sheriff arpaio was even sentences. he told us, quote, should thement ever face paempt on obstruction related grounds, this will color the case against him because it's a pardon that does not meet the standards for granting one in the normal course of events. so, again, asking about the arpaio pardon could be trouble for the president. we also heard from a former top official in the justice department, walter dellinger, who led the office of legal counsel under president clinton. walter dellinger told us, quote, no president should be interfering in a criminal prosecution on behalf of friends or supporters. it fundamentally violates equal justice under law. blunt from walter dellinger. so obviously a pardon is a presidential prerogative, but can a president try to quash a prosecution? is that legal? it turns out it's a good question. so stay tuned on that.
we also have some exclusive new reporting tonight on the dossier of alleged russian dirt on president trump and the ten hours of testimony by a key player in the production of that dossier. we've got that story next. stay with us. my dad's.
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russia. the head of the company that commissioned that dossier, the co-founder of fusion gps, glen simpson, he spent ten hours giving a transcribed interview to judiciary committee staffers recently, all about the dossier. ten hours of testimony. afterward, glen simpson said he stands by the dossier. he also said, quote, the committee can release the transcript if it so chooses. the transcript of ten hours of his testimony on the dossier. at that town hall in iowa, senator grassley told his persistent constituent that he was open to releasing that transcript of those ten hours of testimony if his committee voted to do that. here's what we can report tonight. judiciary has 11 republicans and nine democrats. we think all nine democrats would likely vote to release that transcript. we reached out to all of them as well as the republicans on the committee. one of the republicans who isn't the chairman, senator orrin hatch of utah, tells us now that he would vote to release that transcript. quoting from a statement that his office gave us, quote, the
is a [ bleep ] lie. >> and she has remained mostly silent until now. >> why did you decide to come forward now and talk to us? >> i trust you. >> does it feel good to talk about this? >> yes. it's time. >> ms. mckinney, come forward please. >> there were bits of the puzzle i wasn't able to reveal at the time and i was unable to be as truthful as i really wanted to be. >> so she is telling her story, her truth, and for the first time exerts from the if you areman tapes you've never heard. vulgar. >> sexist. >> how do you arrest a violent suspect? >> have a man do it.
romantic relationship ended. >> if somebody thinks enough of you, they'll call you a name. >> the nicknames he gave these women are pretty hash. >> we have all the female names. there's one called critter. there's another one we call hench monkey, like in the wizard of oz. >> can i use that? >> sure. critter. >> what were you thinking when he said those things? >> bingo. i feel that often when i'm working on -- there will be a bingo moment. or i'll get chills. when i get chills, i can help somebody else get chills. >> but laura would get much more than chills and a dramatic screen play. >> you have to be able to shoot people, beat people beyond recognition and go home and hug your little kids.
>> her 12 tapes would become a racial powder keg. >> the defense will question laura hart mccan i beny. >> i guarantee you. there's a celebration behind closed doors. >> impacting the trial of the century. >> do you use the word -- >> the defense says those tapes will show furman is a liar and racist who was capable of planting the bloody glove. >> revealing a racist and sexist society in the lapd. >> he threatened me and said i'll take and you any other females you want to bring and i'll choke you out in a minute. . it's about moving forward, not back. it's looking up, not down.
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s. she knew exactly what her movie should be about. >> so your goal was to write a screen play about sexism within the lapd, why? >> i hate it when people are cruel to each other and that it's got to be happening not just here, it's got to be happening around the country. >> and it was sure happening in l.a. in the 1980s with resentment and retaliation against a campaign to recruit more women and minorities to the lapd. >> i could tell there was a tory there. i didn't know what the story was, but i was determined to deal with it. >> and her man on the inside, officer mark fuhrman had plenty to say on the subject.
the police academy, shadowing them, and i represent their voices. >> we were trained with this gun and how to load it. >> recognizes like tia morris. >> every rank in the department up threw capital. >> in 1983 she was new to the force and ready to protect and serve in west l.a. at roll call, rookie officers like morris sat upfront. >> the tenured officers like if you areman he and a lot of the ordinarily officers would sit in the back and throw paper or pencils at us, or make loud and vulgar comments if the watch commander read our name. they'd say, she's a pig and things like that. >> nobody stood up and said this is wrong, back down. >> no. >> when you found out you had to work with beat with him, what was your reaction? what were you thinking? >> i was scared.
i was scared only because of him standing up in front of all of our peers and in front of the watch skmarnd other officers and he flatout said i do not want to work with morris. from the moment he stepped out of roll call, he was angry. the whole night he threat understand me and challenged me to fight. he said i'll take you and any other females you want to bring up to the academy and i'll choke you out in a in a minute because you're not even strong. you can't handle a man. [ siren ] >> then came a high-priority call, burglary in progress. he didn't get out of the car so i would approach the scene by myself. >> he didn't back you up? >> no, he sat in the car. he shined his light and just sat there. i didn't get out. >> . >> what if somebody would have
come towards you? >> he would have been happy. because then he could have allowed me to get hurt and that would have been right up his alley. >> morris says she was so scared she didn't even finish her shift that night. but if you areman wasn't the only one with this attitude towards wyoming there was a covert club. they called themselves mau, men against women, meeting here at stoner park in the dead of night. >> so when i first told you about men against women, what was your reaction? >> i couldn't believe it. you guys actually go to the park after work and just drink beer and denigrate women? >> . >> i spent time here when i was writing thinking about what it
would be like for the marksau guys to be here. >> he described disciplining one of their zone if you areman and the guys would hold these late night meetings and figure out how they were going to harass other male officers that were being nice to female officers. >> who had helped them in some way? who had not reported something in a report that those officers felt they should have or done something nice for them, had backed them up. . >> coming up tribunal and kill parties. >> it takes your breath away just the thought of it. hi. i'm the one clocking in... when you're clocking out. sensing your every move and automatically adjusting to help you stay effortlessly comfortable. there.
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>> mark fuhrman roll playing as the quote grand dragon, leading what he describes as a tribunal, calling out a fellow officer for fraternizing with a female cop. >> and then i go does anybody have any evidence to produce? well, on 2/25 i observed the defendant not only touch but kiss on the as one of the female officers. i did not. silence. it's a lot of fun but you blow off a lot of steam. it makes guys aware. >> seemingly makes guys aware that if they are nice to female officers there will be consequences. that's how m.a.w., men against women, reportedly worked. >> we have factions in five divisions. >> what was a typical outcome of these mock trials? these tribunals? >> depending on the crime
committed, the grand dragon would determine what the ostracization would be. that the other guys wouldn't talk with him. >> however, there was, as fuhrman describes, a way to avoid quote being put on trial. >> publicly humiliate a female officer in front of a bunch of male officers. >> tia morris says she had to work with the men of m.a.w. so when you heard about men against women and this group of guys making it their mission to intimidate and harass women, did you believe it? >> i didn't. but then i really saw how serious mark fuhrman was about the other men talking to the women. especially the male whites. if they came up to me and spoke or anything like that, mark fuhrman would say what are you doing?
don't talk to her and they would back away. >> men against women wasn't only about denegrating females, fuhrman also told screenwriter laura hart mckinney that m.a.w. held what they called kill parties. celebrations she found unimaginable. >> the thought of a kill party takes your breath away. when there was an officer-involved shooting, some officers of the m.a.w. group would celebrate it it. the thought of taking someone's life and happy that it wasn't you and finding a way to go great job. that was a hell of an evening. it's just overwhelming, the really is. the idea of a kill party. >> tribunals. kill parties. equally disturbing is that mark fuhrman stayed on the job
despite allegations of his sexism, racism. >> he told me i needed to go and dance on "soul train." >> and internal investigations. in 1985, ten years before the o.j. simpson trial, tia morris testified before an administrative board about the behavior of mark fuhrman and other officers. >> it happened because of the lieutenant that noticed the issues were spilling over to another watch. he told us what he observed and what he had been hearing about the men against women and w.a.s.p. the white anglo-saxon police. he did specify he knew it was stemming from fuhrman and said he was going to start an investigation and he did. >> they weren't formally punished but his reputation took a hit. so then mark fuhrman comes up for a promotion and you say? >> no. >> bernard parks was an lapd
deputy chief when fuhrman came up for promotion. >> a person's background had to be as sterling as possible. i made a point to always take a moment to look at somebody's background and not give them an opportunity to put the department in a bad light. >> so you knew he would put the department in a bad light? >> my view was you didn't want to take the chance. >> one year after fuhrman was passed over for a promotion, parks had to set up another task force. >> we set the task force because in the early '90s almost the same things were happening in west l.a. that were happening in the '80s and you heard rumors about women being mistreated and not given an opportunity. >> one member of that task force, tia morris. >> it was amazing to me because for one i'm sitting here thinking here i went through this in the '80s and i'm saying the department knew about a lot
of this stuff. they knew how he was and nobody did anything. >> so being on this task force, you were privy to internal reports and mark fuhrman was mentioned in a number of these. >> yes. we were privy to all of his past investigations and a stress claim he filed where he talked about how he hated blacks and hispanics. and women. and he was blaming the department for his stress because of those issues that he had. >> this time the investigation resulted in officers being reassigned, including mark fuhrman. a fateful move with consequences that no one could have imagined. coming up, mark fuhrman's behavior would no longer be just an internal problem.
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plus had less major bleeding. both made eliquis right for me. ask your doctor if switching to eliquis is right for you. by 1995 laura hart mckinney had settled down with her family in suburban north carolina. but back in l.a., her old buddy mark fuhrman was back on the stand. >> you say you have never spoken about black people as n -- or spoken about black people as n -- in the past ten years? >> that's what i'm saying, sir. >> as bailey was grilling fuhrman, no one knew about the tapes, except for her and a few close allies. then came the one phone call that changed everything. >> i picked up the phone. he said may i speak with laura hart mckinney and i said this is
she but i didn't recognize the voice. and then he said this is pat mckenna. >> mckenna was a private investigator working for o.j. simpson's lawyers. a sign to find anything that would support the defense's strategy that mark fuhrman was a racist who planted evidence. >> he asked me if aid story and if in that story i had research tapes and if i had taped mark fuhrman. >> and your thought? >> i just froze and said yes and then we left town. immediately. because i had no idea what to do. >> including what to do about some unexpected advice. >> who suggested you destroy the tapes? >> judge who was an acquaintance of mine in l.a. >> did that surprise you? >> yes. >> so did she want to protect mark fuhrman? >> i'm thinking she wanted to
protect the integrity of the trial. >> what did you say to her? >> i was flummoxed. why? >> did she see the writing on the wall? was she afraid potentially a murderer could walk free because of what these tapes represented? >> she didn't know what was on the tapes but her point was when i said the tapes are confidential and she said it's a murder trial. nothing is confidential and they would subpoena you and your tapes and your life would change forever. >> and that's exactly what happened. when mckinney refused to hand over the tapes, simpson's lawyers came to north carolina and took her to court. >> mark furman is still a friend of yours, is that correct? >> he's a business partner. i have a business relationship with him. >> and you're still trying to market this screenplay?
>> i was completely unprepared to be in a courtroom. i was extremely nervous. >> this material is collateral. and i will deny the subpoena. >> i think it's an outrageous ruling and we're going to appeal. this is bombshell evidence and it's absolutely critical. it's relevant, germane, material. >> you won. you didn't have to give up the tapes. >> yes. i was very pleased that we won and thought that's the end of it. great. >> and then you lost on appeal. >> right. >> and then you thought? >> i thought i have to send the tapes. >> so did he say, laura, please don't give up those tapes? >> he requested i not give up the tapes. >> what did you tell him? >> no. that i had to give them up. >> did you feel a need to protect him? >> no. he's very capable of protecting himself. >> as for mckinney, she could no longer protect the tapes or her
privacy. so who told pat mckenna you had these tapes? >> that, i don't know. that person has never been revealed to me. >> still a mystery? >> still a mystery. i don't know. >> so to this day you don't know who gave you up, basically to the defense. >> no. i don't know who called. >> did you stop and think about what you should next do? coming up, o.j. simpson charged with murder and mark fuhrman still taping. more from the infamous tapes you've never heard. speak now. (coughs) so sorry. oh no... it's just that your friend daryl here is supposed to be live streaming the wedding and he's not getting any service. i missed, like, the whole thing. what? and i just got an unlimited plan. it's the right plan, wrong network. you see, verizon has the largest,
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>> yeah, the 77th. leave that old station. it's got the smell of -- >> how did you stomach listening to that over and over again? >> those comments that he used made me feel repulsed but also it lit a fire under me. it's despicable, the fact he can think about that and talk like that makes me think it's happening and so i have to find a way to reflect that. >> so it just empowered you. >> it just pissed me off. >> and it made her a crucial player in the trial of the century. she could have profited handsomely from those tapes but she didn't. >> i would never do that. i would never have sold the tapes. >> is it true you were offered $250,000 for them?
s. >> i was. >> why didn't you sell them? >> no one, talking about me, should be profiting from this tragedy people have to live with every day of their life. >> but mckinney was still thrust into the spotlight and that meant anxiety and fear. i remember you got a lot of death threats. a lot of people were angry with you. they didn't understand why these tapes had to come about. >> right. >> did you feel safe during all of that? >> no. i was extremely scared. >> in a matter of the people of state of california. >> the verdict didn't make her feel any safer. >> we find the defendant not guilty of the crime of murder. >> what was your reaction to the verdict when o.j. simpson was found not guilty? >> i didn't go out of the house for a while. >> really? >> yes. >> why?
>> there was the reality that maybe the tapes had something to do with the jury's verdict and because of that i would be persona non grata in many people's eyes. >> mark fuhrman certainly was exposed as a liar and forced to go silent. >> detective fuhrman, did you plant or manufacture any evidence in this case? >> i assert my fifth amendment privilege. >> but his silence would not protect him. his voice on those tapes could not be erased. excerpts you are now hearing for the very first time. >> you got to be a borderline sociopath, you have to be violent and walk away from blood and go to dinner. you have to be able to shoot
people, beat people beyond recognition and go home and hug your little kids. you don't pack those qualities. no women do, and if you do they're either so ugly or they're lesbians or so dyke-ish that they're not women anymore. they're like caught in between it's like half in a door and half out. you know they're caught between dimensions. there's just no way to do it all. >> stories of alleged sexism, racism, and police brutality. mckinney's tapes would impact more than just the o.j. simpson trial. they would impugn the integrity of the lapd. when you heard those tape recordings for the first time, what did you think? >> it was a belly punch at the wrong time.
and you go how could this have happened to us? how did we even let him stay on the job? >> he was an lapd assistant chief when a task force investigated everything fuhrman said on those tapes. why had he been allowed to behave the way he did for so long and not be held accountable? >> because the command staff that was in charge of him did not do the job they should have done, which is to deal with the issue in a strong manner. so it was kind of shunted off to the side. boys will be boys and we needed to tell the organization if you even claim to be engaged in this kind of behavior, we'll investigate it and let chips fall where they may. and secondly, if it was within statute, then we would take it to the district attorney and file on it it. >> in 1997 the task force
released this report, keeping secret portions of the tapes. excerpts not played in court and never made public until now. this is the confidential version of that report. it reveals more of fuhrman's disturbing recordings. quote, grabbed her by the hair and stuck a gun to her head. held her like this. threw the -- down the stairs. and quote i'd pick up three or four gang members, bring them to the station. take one in the basement and just beat the dog out of him." >> hundreds of inert views were conducted and nearly a quarter of a million documents were reviewed. >> in the end the task force confirmed 12 of 29 events described by fuhrman. but concluded that he embellished a lot, that just about everything he
told mckinney was bigger, bloodier and more violent than the actual events. with one exception. m.a.w. men against women. >> did you ever at any point feel i need to report what he's saying? this is dangerous? >> no. no, i didn't. i really believe that if i could tell the story in a way that was honest and fair with a strong narrative that i could help inform people. >> fuhrman's words would inspire mckinney's writing for decades. >> he told you he personally felt trapped. what did he mean by that? >> he was trying to articulate the depth of his soul. there is something with his own identity that was connected to being a police officer and so much of it was being besmirched by having to work with women that if he'd been in a different
time in history, he would have been more appreciated, more respected, more openly respected by people. next, fuhrman worries more about the movie than the murder. >> and whatever happened to mckinney's screenplay? "how to win at business." step one: point decisively with the arm of your glasses. abracadabra. the stage is yours. step two: choose la quinta. the only hotel where you can redeem loyalty points for a free night-instantly and win at business. when heartburn hits fight back fast with new tums chewy bites. fast relief in every bite. crunchy outside. chewy inside. tum tum tum tum new tums chewy bites.
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mark fuhrman was still getting together with you and recording these tapes after the murders had happened. did you find that odd at all, that he was okay being recorded talking about this? >> no. no. because he liked to talk about his thoughts and his feelings. >> stunning to hear now, but not really surprising when looking back on a man known to be cocky. >> do you use the word "nigger"? >> no, sir. >> and pled no contest to perjury. but in his 1997 book, fuhrman apologized, writing, "in my
heart i always knew it was wrong, even if i said them only to create a fictional story. my first fall our was the lure of agreed and the second was my lack of compassion." >> i'm not a racist. >> fuhrman also went on an apology tour, visiting diane sawyer, oprah, and larry king. >> i thought i knew better, being a policeman, how to make the most controversial, outrageous, violent, controversially crammed police show we could make. and i was wrong. i didn't know what i was doing. >> one thing fuhrman has said is, eh, at times maybe i got a little carried away talking to laura. i don't know if you've heard that before. what's your reaction to that? >> he said those things, so he believed them. but i don't think he got carried away. i think he was truthful. >> today, no longer a screenplay consultant or a cop, fuhrman, who declined to be interviewed
for this program, is an author and tv crime analyst. as for laura hart mckinny -- >> screen writing is such an emotional journey. we have to be willing to be vulnerable. >> she teaches screenwriting at the university of north carolina school of the arts. and that screenplay she developed with mark fuhrman's help? it never became a movie. >> missouri scum who should not be allowed in her policemen and police women brotherhood. >> it became a book. >> he violated all principles by touching a female officer. he glanced at the notepad and pounded his heart, oh, god, kissing one policewoman in uniform and embarrassing it all. >> it's fiction. and the title? the same as fuhrman's real life secret society. men against women. was completing this book
therapeutic to you after all these decades? >> yes. >> publishing the book was therapeutic. but disclosing the tapes? still painful. for more than 20 years, you were the woman with the tapes that changed the face of this trial. what has that been like for you? >> it hasn't been good, i will say. that part hasn't been good. i've felt that ashamed would be wrong, but i have felt bad that the revelation of the tapes could have actually had something to do with the verdict. >> -- simpson not guilty of murder -- >> could have actually helped to make a guilty man go free. >> if this is your verdict, so say you one, so say you all.
>> but those tapes have also done exactly what mckinny started out to do. chief willie williams proposed sweeping changes in how his department handles sexual harassment. >> it doesn't happen under my watch, period. >> are you glad laura recorded mark fuhrman? >> absolutely. it had a huge impact on the o.j. simpson trial and made us look absolutely horrible within our minority community. they said, look, we've been saying all along that you used the "n" word, that you lie. and it took years after this to deal with it. >> we will be doing the reorganization of the department, and it will serve the best interests of the duties of this department and the citizens of los angeles.
>> are you glad laura recorded mark fuhrman? >> i'm very pleased. most things, hard lessons, are things that are thrust upon you when you don't ask for them and you have to react to them. you think everybody is better for it. >> i think those tapes spoke volumes. the revelation was priceless. >> decades later, are you glad you didn't destroy those tapes? >> yes. >> why? >> i have three sons. i would have a very hard time today sitting here thinking of my sons and telling them that i destroyed something that i was proud that i had done. >> why would he want to keep talking to you for so many years? did he ever say why? >> he wanted to be infamous. >> that's what he said? >> he said that. >> but infamous is very