online, though msnbc doesn't know exactly when the call took place. >> what the president -- president's campaign did was focus on certain members of his base coalition, give them extraordinary financial gifts from the government, and then work very aggressively to turn them out to vote. >> the giving away free stuff is a hard thing to compete with. >> free stuff. it's offensive. and it's exactly what romney talked about in his 47% tape. it wasn't a gaffe. it wasn't a mistake. we now know it's exactly what this small-minded man believes. >> what the president did is he gave them two things. one, he gave them a big gift on immigration, with the dream act and the amnesty program. number two, he put in place obama care, which is -- which basically is $10,000 a family. i mean, it's a proven political strategy, which is give a bunch of money from the government to a group. and guess what, they'll vote for you. >> in romney's world view passing laws and helping people get a fair shake is "giving money to a group." but that wasn't what our leaders are elected to do. romney and the romney republicans forget that that is what they are elected and to forget that is to do so at your own peril. joining me now is david corn, mother jones washington bureau chief and msnbc political analyst. his new e-book is about how he uncovered romney's original 47% video. and abby huntsman, host and producer of "huff post live." today she tweeted, "romney makes it sound like obama personally handed out fruit baskets to people to win the election." you're right about that, abby. thanks for joining me tonight. >> thanks for having me. >> abby, the romney campaign put out a statement today saying, "governor romney was simply elaborating on what david axelrod had said about the obama campaign's effort to target key demographics, most specifically women." what's your reaction to that statement? >> well, reverend, i'm still waiting for my fruit basket. i'm not only a woman but i'm a young voter. i never received one. i think what we're seeing here -- >> it's coming, abby. it's coming. >> what we're seeing here, and david corn will probably say the same thing, is just a confirmation that he really does believe that 47% comment. he's very much at home when he's talking to his donors. and moreover, i think when we're talking about this so-called gift, when you give someone a gift you do it because you want to give it to them, not because they necessarily need, it not because they necessarily deserve it. so to suggest that by obama providing medicare to americans, to say that it's the same thing as passing out fruit baskets is not only inaccurate, i think it's offensive to a lot of americans. and i think it reconfirms a lot of the reason people were unsure about romney, this language, this us versus them mentality. it's also a case of sour grapes is what we're seeing. >> and he said about women, i'm quoting here, free contraceptives were very big with young college-aged women. i mean, abby, with all of the health implications and the seriousness connected with contraceptives, you're going to reduce that to a gift to get votes? >> i think this is exactly the reason why he was not successful, why his campaign was not successful. it wasn't a matter of obama giving out these so-called gifts. i think it was the language that was used, not only among many republicans but specifically with romney. he made a number of statements that i think frightened women, that frightened latinos. it frightened these key groups, that ultimately could not check the box when they went to the voting booth on election day. >> now, david, it seems that romney's not the only one touting this kind of concept. look at some of the right-wing pundits and people that have influenced the right in this country. how they are on the basic general same premise that he's using. watch this. >> sure. >> america in some ways is changing. >> yes. >> and it's changing in this way, is that -- it's the allure of free. >> there are 50% of the voting public who want stuff. they want things. >> they're the party of free stuff. they are the party of santa. >> david? >> you know, under their definition, under mitt romney's definition, medicare is a gift. social security is a gift. medicaid is a gift. veterans' assistance is a gift. and that's one reason why he lost. most americans don't see it that way. i have to tell you, reverend, when i first saw those 47% remarks, it's 67 seconds on that hour-long video i got, and i wondered, you know, it was clear what he said. we came on -- i came on the show. we talked about it. everyone can judge for themselves. but i wondered to what degree, whether this was mitt romney really saying what he believed or saying what he thought the people in the room wanted to hear. that he was talking to these rich folks who are resentful against people who aren't as successful as they are. and when you tie that together with those comments about gifts, just gifts, these people just want free stuff, this is what it's all about, they don't care. he also said they don't care about the big issues. they just care about themselves and they're just little money-grubbing moochers and victims. it all ties together. we had a long debate during this campaign whether mitt romney was a flip-flopper or a conservative, what he really believed, whether he was just saying what he thought people wanted him to say. i think you tie together the 47% rant with these gift remarks and you have a really accurate picture of a man who almost became president. >> i think that the thing, though, that most disturbs me, david, is the bigger picture here. when you look at the fact that the election is over and one of the reasons that i wanted to highlight this is that it's a mindset that we've got to deal with, which is why it appealed to other right-wingers. romney feels that it's perfectly all right -- let me share his version of gifts. to give tax cuts to corporations. tax cuts to millionaires. and slashing regulations for big business. those are not gifts because they are supposed to have these things. they're entitled to that. but if you give health care to senio seniors, if you look out for people that need help, if you look out for young people to get a way in life, if you provide health needs for young women, that's a gift. like they're less than equal to these corporations and the rich. that kind of political flo philosophy is dangerous and to me un-american. >> well, i think it is. i think it's a version of class warfare. when the president talks about making sure kids can get loans to go to college or even forgiveness of loans so they don't -- aren't burdened by debt, he's doing this so that america has a vibrant and innovative economy, that people -- we're moving ahead. it's not a handout. this is a way of investing in our future as a nation. >> as well as giving incentives to -- >> not to recognize that shows that he's really living on a different planet. and you know, that's what this election boiled down to, these very different views of visions and values for the nation. and he has firmly planted the flag on the side of, you know, the rich get what they get and everybody else -- >> because that -- we need to give incentives to business. but we also must take care of americans. but abby, i see a lot of the republicans, particularly those that are looking toward bringing the party back from a political loss and some who are thinking about 16, seem to be running away from him. bobby jindal and scott walker were quick to reject romney today. watch this. >> i absolutely reject that notion, that description. i think that's absolutely wrong. that is not -- i don't think that represents where we are as a party. >> we're the party that helps people find a pathway to live the american dream. and it's not just for people who are currently not dependent on the government. it's for all americans. >> abby, your father was considered by many to be too moderate for these candidates that ran in this primary. do you think that more moderate voices in the republican party will stand up like we just saw jindal and, of all people, scott walker? >> they're not even moderates. they're just reasonable. >> right. reverend, my dad doesn't look so crazy after all, does he? i mean, what happened tuthen advertisety? when i see some of these gop are speaking out such as governor jindal -- >> who are not moderates. david's right. go ahead. >> if you go back and read some of his tweets during the primary and general election, you'll see he's very far from moderate. but this is not the first time that governor romney has made a comment that turns people off, as david corn talks about in his book. and in his reporting about the 47% comment. where were they then? i think a lot of these people sat with their tail between their legs and didn't have the courage to say anything when it was not politically popular and now all of a sudden romney's lost and he realized in order to win i've got to be that moderate voice, i've got to take over as the same guy, the more moderate guy. and i have to take a step back and say i was there throughout this whole process, i watched my dad run as the moderate candidate, and it's really sad to see the lack of authenticity that exists in the party today. and i hope that people don't see through it. >> i think that's what it's all about, is what is government about and who are the real people in this country that -- and what they can expect from the country that they live and love. david, i've got to go. a abby, thank you so much for your time tonight. ahead, the roots of the gift and 47% comments began 30 years ago. tonight, you will hear newly uncovered tapes from lee atwater on the republican dog whistle on race. the man who uncovered the tape joins me. and ding, ding, ding. here we go again. it's president obama versus john mccain. seems to me the senator is breaking down. plus, move over, rush. we have more conspiracy theories. wait until you hear what the gop chair in maine is saying about voter fraud. you're watching "politics nation" on msnbc. and we got onesies. sometimes miracles get messy. so we use tide free. no perfumes or dyes for her delicate skin. brad. not it. not it. just kidding. that's our tide. what's yours? 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a day after the president publicly humiliated him for cowardly attacking u.n. ambassador susan rice, someone who had nothing to do with the libya tragedy, mccain was out looking for another tv camera again. hey, america. this is what bitterness looks like. >> four americans died that didn't have to die. and for someone to go out and convey something that is absolutely false to all america in my view bears responsibility. >> i don't know how you logically assume that she had nothing to do with benghazi. the american people were told false information by her at the direction of the white house. >> now, we all know ambassador rice was stating the intelligence that had been provided to her. but mccain wasn't done. >> by the way, i'm not taking anybody on. the american people have lost four brave americans. we owe it to their families. we owe it to other americans who served. we'll find out what happened. for the president of the united states for two weeks afterwards to deny that that was the case is either a cover-up or it is incompetence. either one of the two. i think the president of the united states has a lot to answer for. >> it's obama versus mccain. and this one is going to end the same way the first one did. joining me now is joan walsh, editor at large for salon.com and an msnbc political analyst, and raul jabraial, a contributor to "newsweek" and the daily beast and an msnbc contributor. thanks to both of you for being here tonight. >> thank you for having us. >> joan, what is going on with john mccain? >> i don't know. he looks increasingly unhinged. i'm just going to say it. he has let this get so personal, get to him so badly that he's really sacrificing a lot of the credibility he's built up over the years. even with the mainstream media, reverend al, who tend to love john mccain. he's a regular guest on the sunday shows. but it's gotten so ugly and so dismissive of both the president and ambassador rice. in very personal terms that are going to stick and that we all want to get to the bottom of what happened. there are still some questions. there were questions when susan rice went out and talked about it. but he's distorting her statement. he's absolutely distorting what she said. and he's also being incredibly dismissive and mean-spirited. and it just looks personal. >> actually, in a moment where the nation is asking both sides, the government and the opposition, to work together because we have the fiscal cliff, immigration reforms and many other issues. plus mccain is the one that never questioned condoleezza rice when that administration actually lied to the nation, lied to the nation about iraqi war, weapon of mass destruction, and cost the country hundreds of millions of dollars. 5,000 soldiers were killed. these soldiers still, we have 40,000 veterans that came injured from that war. a war that was a total lie. plus mccain was the one that actually, he's questioning susan, the ambassador. he didn't question his running mate when he chose her. he didn't even ask her questions about foreign policy. she didn't know that. the uk has a prime minister. she didn't know what the fed was. she didn't know what russia -- what kind of policy she needed to have with russia. >> but rula, let's be fair. sarah palin could see russia from her back yard. i mean -- >> and that's -- >> but he says susan rice doesn't know that much. >> he's the man that picked that woman. you know what? he should reflect -- mccain should reflect about how you should behave when you actually are beaten and defeated. with dignity. and you should actually question yourself about your mistakes, about your choices, and how the country wants you to behave from now on. the country chose barack obama with a large margin. >> twice. >> twice. not once. twice. and maz a message for him, that he needs to actually cooperate with barack obama, not attack him. >> joan, as i said, he questioned what ms. rice, ambassador rice knows. let me explain. ambassador rice, now the u.n. ambassador to the u.n., foreign policy adviser to john kerry, clinton administration '93 to 2001, a rhodes scholar, a ph.d. from oxford university. i mean, as was stated by rula, he didn't question condoleezza rice in 2005, when the whole world was questioning whether there was weapons of mass destruction. it was accepted that she was stating what was given to her. >> right. >> all miss rice did now, susan rice, was state what she was briefed on that day. >> and she was very clear. >> by the cia. >> right. and she was very clear about the ongoing uncertainty. i happen to know susan rice. i've known her for a decade. she's brilliant. so this notion that she's not qualified or she wasn't terribly bright in her remarks, it's really insulting. it's really personal. and yes, again, the man who put sarah palin -- tried to put sarah palin a heartbeat away from the presidency is questioning this woman. he also -- when he defended condi rice in 2005, there are great sound bites where he says, you know, there's nothing about the -- some of the democrats question it. there's nothing about this that isn't about revenge, that isn't about the way the election turned out, that isn't about bitterness. he's describing himself. >> and let me say that it is clear to me -- and none of us -- i don't agree with condi rice, but i would never say she wasn't bright. she's a very bright woman. and when you look at the fact that this was brought to -- matt lauer on the "today" show this morning, nbc, raised the question to john mccain. watch this, rula. >> you said opponents of condoleezza rice were expressing sour grapes after an election loss. why is this different? >> because every intelligence agency in the world including the british believed that iraq had weapons of mass destruction. that was an entirely different situation. >> i don't know what mccain is talking about. it's really -- you know, i have to say, it's concerning for a man that in his concession speech said we're fellow americans, let's remember the country and country first. when he put that sign on his campaign, country first, he should remember these words, and he should remember something else, that what happened in libya happened in 22 countries the same day. there was all over muslim countries riots and manifestations and demonstrations and attacks on embassies. so the assessment that we had the day after, the assessment that actually logical, that the whole picture was the whole -- the situation in the middle east was about that video. and what time we discovered it was not that way, what you do, you don't attack the u.n. ambassador that in this moment is negotiating with the world on syria, on iran, on russia, on china. >> but she wasn't just going by her own schedule. i think that it's important as we play that tape, joan, that they confirmed condoleezza rice in 2005. the whole world was not believing that then. we had just had a 2004 election in this country about whether or not they were right or wrong about iraq. so that's not true. but what is even more questionable to me, he wants to question the truth about benghazi, mccain. but yesterday he skipped out of a closed-door confidential senate committee hearing about benghazi. he didn't attend the classified briefing for senators wednesday given to the senate homeland security and governmental affairs committee on which he is a member. the committee he's a member. the closed and classified briefing included representatives from the state department, the defense department, the joint chiefs of staff, the national counterterrorism center, and the fbi, all in this session. instead of attending this committee that was talking about what he says he wanted to get to the bottom of, let me show you what he was doing. >> susan rice should have known better. and if she didn't know better, she's not qualified. >> we will do whatever's necessary to block the nomination that's within our power as far as susan rice is concerned. >> this president and this administration has either been guilty of colossal incompetence or engaged in a cover-up. >> so he was making speeches, making tv appearances, not at the closed committee hearing that he's a member of, and when his staff was questioned about it, they said oh, it was a scheduling conflict. >> right. well, there were no cameras at that closed-door intelligence briefing. so you know, it wasn't going to suit his purposes. he also went off the deep end today when a cnn reporter asked him why he happened to skip that meeting. and you know, just came off as kind of, again, unhinged and very bitter. >> joan and rula, thank you both for your time tonight. >> thank you. >> coming up, another day, another excuse from the former gop kingmaker. but wait until you hear what a gop chairman is saying about voter fraud. and the roots of gift comments, of makers and takers talk, started in 1981. tonight we will reveal lee atwater's full 1981 interview on how gop could appeal to racism without sounding racist. it's a "politics nation" exclusive. one is for a clean, wedomestic energy future that puts us in control. our abundant natural gas is already saving us money, producing cleaner electricity, putting us to work here in america and supporting wind and solar. though all energy development comes with some risk, we're committed to safely and responsibly producing natural gas. it's not a dream. america's natural gas... putting us in control of our energy future, now. time for citi price rewind. because your daughter really wants that pink castle thing. and you really don't want to pay more than you have to. only citi price rewind automatically searches for the lowest price. and if it finds one, you get refunded the difference. just use your citi card and register your purchase online. have a super sparkly day! ok. 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[ phillips' lady ] live the regular life. phillips'. have you joined the "politics nation" conversation on facebook yet? we shared this photo of the president consoling a victim of hurricane sandy during his trip this afternoon through parts of new york. sue said "he gave them what was in his heart. strength, compassion, empathy, and understanding." and rita told us, to "note president obama's leadership. it is not what he says. it's what he does." we want to hear what you think, too. please head over to facebook and search "politics nation" and like us to join the conversation that keeps going long after the show ends. even ragu users ch. prego?! but i've bought ragu for years. [ thinking ] wonder what other questionable choices i've made? i choose date number 2! whooo! [ sigh of relief ] [ male announcer ] choose taste. choose prego. he loves risk. but whether he's climbing everest, scuba diving the great barrier reef with sharks, or jumping into the market, he goes with people he trusts, which is why he trades with a company that doesn't nickel and dime him with hidden fees. so he can worry about other things, like what the market is doing and being ready, no matter what happens, which isn't rocket science. it's just common sense, from td ameritrade. forget for a moment all the crazy gop reaction after the election, and check out what "mother jones" magazine uncovered from just before president obama's big win. it's one of the wackiest stories we've ever seen about top georgia gop lawmakers hosting a briefing on secret obama mind control plot. ♪ oh, no, not the mind games! we've heard all kinds of off-the-wall claims about the president from the fringe right. but this is coming from an elected official. it happened last month at a closed-door meeting inside georgia's state house. georgia republican senate majority leader chip rogers hosted the event. he called on a tea party activist to explain to the republican caucus how president obama is running the country. >> they do that by a process known as delphi technique. it was developed by the rand corporation during the cold war. it's a mind control technique. it's also known as concessive process. but basically the gold of the delphi technique is to lead a targeted group of people to a predetermined outcome while keeping up the illusion of input. >> it's just an illusion. the public was duped. they keep looking to blame someone. anyone, anything. maybe it's time to look in the mirror. joining me now, joe madison, nationally syndicated host of "on the power" on sirius xm. and dana milbank, columnist for the "washington post." thanks for coming on the show. >> hi, reverend. >> people come up with m stuff, man. >> dana. mind games? i mean, this is a new one. what is it about the far right and this president? i mean, mind games? >> well, they're pretty good mind games if they've got tens of millions of americans to fall for it. but i'm kufszed because mitt romney just said it was because the american people were bribed with gifts. i think they've got to go with one or the other. it was either bribery or it was some mass tens of millions of people going through mind games. look, this is a difficult time here. they will get through this period. but they can study it and look through it, but when it comes right down to it it's pretty obvious that people weren't buying what they were selling and they need to be selling a different product. >> joe madison, karl rove is making all kinds of excuses again. the "wall street journal" today wrote a column and they gave lessons of defeat for the gop. i'm quoting him here. republicans need not jettison their principles, but they must avoid appearing judgmental and callous on social issues. the gop must reduce the destructiveness of the presidential primaries, also the republican national committee should limit the number of debates and by showing wisdom in picking debate moderators limit the ability -- the media's ability to depict the party as a fringe group. >> yeah. >> so they're og everything but saying, you know what, what we are offering just doesn't work and that people aren't satisfied with the policies we represent. >> true. and if they want to limit the media's ability they ought to start with limiting some of the voices they have out there, particularly in the talk show aaron p. who did more -- my god, limit the sununus, who insulted everyone. you know, the republicans are culturally conditioned to believe that they're superior. and i think what happened is they simply undervalued, underestimated, and they marginalized an entire group of peop people. there was a republican i think in maine who had the audacity to say we had dozens of black folk and we didn't know who they were, like we count our negroes, you know, like gee, who are they? and we don't know who they are. do you know how 1950-ish that sounds to people? i've got -- i think my maternal grandmother is born in bangor, maine. i'm thinking about going out there and checking it out. >> the person in maine will say that. let me show the sound so people understand exactly what you're talking about. >> yeah. >> in some parts of the state, for example, in some parts of rural maine there were dozens, dozen of black people who came in to vote on election day. everybody has the right to vote. but nobody in town knows anybody that's black. how did that happen? i don't know. we're going to find out. >> now, later he apologized. you he seemed emphatic. so i mean, dana, when you go to that and you see these kind of -- we've got everything from mind games to traveling blacks that nobody ever saw before that just happens to show up in maine. i mean, it's everything but an examination of the policies that even with hundreds of millions of dollars that americans would buy. >> clearly there are some mind games being practiced on the residents of maine who are no longer able to recognize their neighbors, i suppose. it is extraordinary. you mentioned the karl rove thing. he's coming out with advice of what the republicans should do. now, let's think about his record. he just wasted half a billion dollars, at a success rate of something around 1%, and predicted this lopsided victory for mitt romney. so he's certainly the one who would be in a credible position to give republicans advice going forward. >> i want to say this, dana, to you. i want you to react to this. going back to joe on the same one. mississippi governor hailey barbour, former mississippi governor i should say, he was a little more blunt in his assessment of what republicans need to do next. watch this. >> we've got to give our political organizational activity, you know, a very serious proctology exam. i think that's the only -- we need to look everywhere is my point. >> he was a little more direct, dana. >> yes. it's always entertaining to listen to hailey barbour. but this isn't rocket science. the problem is republicans are appealing to people who sound and look like hailey barbour. and demographically, they're shrinking into a minority party here. it's very obvious what they need to do. and it doesn't involve medical exams, and it doesn't involve mind control, and it doesn't involve racial fantasies. >> yeah, you're kind, man. he has it opened up for such a joke that i can't tell on family tv. but you're absolutely right. it goes back to, again, this cultural conditioning. and they've got to understand that you know -- michael steele was right when he was chairman. he was right about it. and if they really want to improve and advance, and i'm not the one to give republicans advice, but the first thing they ought to do -- and i'll just say it. they should get rid of karl rove. he's had his chance. he blew it. he blew it, like you said, almost half a billion dollars. who blows $100 billion and then is asked to come back? they need to regroup. and finally, reverend, know your people. know us. come and talk to us. come on your show. come on my show. talk to our audience. we're not monolithic. >> all right. joe and dana thanks for your time tonight. >> thanks, reverend. >> ahead, remember when this happened? 5 million barrels of crude oil gushing out underwater? tonight big news on bp's punishment. and the roots of the racially coded gifts and talkers and takers and makers. these comments started in the reagan era. the man who uncovered a new tape joins me next. 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[ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus. ♪ oh what a relief it is! ♪ [ male announcer ] can't find theraflu? try alka-seltzer plus for fast, liquid, cold, and flu relief. how the gop's ugly dog whistle playbook started 30 years ago. we have the tape, and you've got to see it. that's next. ple belief that bringing you better technology helps make you a better investor. with our revolutionary e-trade 360 dashboard you see exactly where your money is and what it's doing live. our e-trade pro platform offers powerful functionality that's still so usable you'll actually use it. and our mobile apps are the ultimate in wherever whenever investing. no matter what kind of investor you are, you'll find the technology to help you become a better one at e-trade. governor romney's comments that the president won because of gifts to minority are certainly jarring. but they weren't surprising given the gop's long, ugly history of injecting race into campaigns. we're reminded of that by newly uncovered audiotape from notorious republican consultant lee atwater back in 1981. atwater explained the evolution of the gop's southern strategy. how the party could appeal to racism without sounding racist. >> you start out in 1954 by saying [ bleep ]. by 1968 you can't say [ bleep ]. that hurts you, backfires. so you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. if it is getting that abstract and that coded, that we're doing away with the racial problem one way or the other, you follow me, because obviously sitting around saying we want to cut taxes, we want to cut this, and we want is much more abstract than even the busing thing. and a hell of a lot more abstract than [ bleep ]. >> the repulsive logic became part of the party playbook. in 1976 ronald reagan told stories about the so-called welfare queen in an effort to scare white voters. and the very same lee atwater made the willie horton ad a key part of george h.w. bush's 1988 bid for the white house. and in 2012 the same ugliness took center stage in the gop primary. >> we know president obama is the best food stamp president in american history. >> i don't want to make black people's lives better by giving them somebody else's money. i want to give them the opportunity to go out and earn the money. >> you're doing it because you care about america. paul and i have not promised you a bigger check from the government. >> as atwater said, the message is coded. but what he's getting at is crystal clear. joining me now is toure, host of "the cycle" here on msnbc, and the man who tracked down the atwater tape, james carter iv. he's an opposition researcher and the grandson of president jimmy carter. thank you both for coming on the show. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> james, first of all, tell us how you got your hands on this tape. >> well, i started looking for it after some of the racially coded language in this campaign, and i came across this quote several times during my research. so i got in touch with the widow of one of the original interviewers, alec limas, and she agreed to give me the tape. >> so james, in the tape, which we've played, you actually have atwater using the n word saying while we can't use that use coded words. so it was really a major strategist saying what we've got to do is we can't use the language we used to use, so we're going to do it this way. and this became a strategy in some of the republican campaigns. we're talking about a man who ran presidential campaigns. we're not talking about some fringe guy here. >> that's right. he was also the chairman of the republican party at one point. >> toure, this is amazing. >> it's really not amazing. you know beef been seeing this for a long time, the southern strategy -- >> no, you think what's amazing is he got the tape. >> oh, absolutely. but the southern strategy has been part of the gop soul since the '60s. it's the party of the wealthy. but there's not enough wealthy to win national elections, not enough wealthy to win most states. so you've got to have a way of appealing to people, poorer people, non-college-educated white people. and i'm not saying that they're all racist. but appealing to them via racial anxiety and racial animosity and these sort of things does work. and when they're talking about welfare queens or crime -- you don't even have to say race when you talk about crime. that immediately becomes ooh, we know what we're talking about. >> you don't use the n word anymore. it's coded. >> and lee atwater would feel very comfortable in this 2012 campaign when you talk about the welfare ad we're going to -- obamas removing work from welfare, jufts giving out free money, free stuff. >> food stamps. >> the food stamp president. he's lazy, these sorts of things. he's not really from america. these are all ways of demonizing him or racializing him without going to the uglier stuff that makes it obvious and embarrassing. >> now, james, atwater also seems to really echo in the tape romney's 47% comments. take a listen. >> i think race as such is going to dissolve as an issue, but you are going toft race question in the sense of on one side you're going to have a guy who's a millionaire and he's got something in common with the guy who's make 10,000 bucks a year. he's paying taxes. and somebody else is not doing anything and taking out of the system. statistically, as the number of non-producers in the system moves toward 50%, that makes the system more and more polarity. >> i mean, it's almost a 50% theory. and this is 1981. and we're hearing this takers and makers kind of theory today. >> that's right. and lee atwater, when he was giving that explanation, actually put people that earn $10,000 a year as part of the producers in his. so he has a slightly different definition of his 47% than mitt romney does. >> i think the thing that -- as egregious as it is, it also is -- shows to me some encouragement to see that so many americans have gotten beyond this. unfortunately for many of us, it took so many years. but i think a lot of people are not going for it anymore and recognizing -- i'm talking about white and black and latino and asian and recognizing this coded stuff for what it is. that's the hope for the country. >> there's a lot of white people who recognize this stuff and reject the stuff. you just had joan walsh on the show who's done a lot of great work talking about the stuff. we have white people like her and chris matthews speaking out against it. it really makes a powerful resonance. but a lot of white people, and the social science shows, this a lot of white people look at themselves as the victims in the zero sum game called race. and this stuff, this lee atwater stuff that romney played into, that reagan played into, that the first bush played into, a lot of that stuff plays into that so that it makes them feel like i am the victim and black people are getting entitlements, affirmative action. they're the lucky duckies. they're the welfare successors, right? i work hard. and i give my money to them. this sort of redistribution. no, i don't want that. so they're playing to these racial anxieties. it's disgusting. but we've seen it for so long that it's not even surprising anymore. >> james, you also were the one to discover the 47% tape. and don't get me wrong. i think it is wrong to play on racial fears on either side. whether it be blacks or whites. and i think that to divide based on fear and false stereotyping is the kinds of things that leads to the demise of the country, james. >> i definitely agree with that. even george bush ran as a uniter and not a divider. that's something that the republican party used to embrace in campaigns. but it doesn't seem that way anymore. >> reverend, i'm actually just happy to be on here with james, who we could call maybe the secret mvp of the 2012 campaign. the republicans used the jimmy carter name wrongly so many times, right? to try to make democrats and obama look bad. and to have it come back that you, sir, stick the knife in romney's rib and make it almost impossible for him to win, i think that's a delicious irony. congratulations to you, sir. >> i think you revealed the truth and let the knife go where it was going. i mean, the truth is the truth is the truth. and you brought the tapes and let people hear it for themselves. toure and james carter iv, thank you both for your time this evening. and don't forget to catch toure on "the cycle" at 3:00 p.m. weekdays here at msnbc. remember this? the gusher that wouldn't stop. but now bp, the oil company is facing the music. big-time. that's next. 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[ phillips' lady ] live the regular life. phillips'. big news today in the case of the bp gulf oil spill. who can forget this image from two years ago? the spill began after a drilling accident in the gulf of mexico on april 20th and continued for three months. 11 people were killed in the explosion. a and it cost the region $23 billion in revenue. but now the wheels of justice are turning. in a settlement with the justice department bp has agreed to plead guilty to criminal charges, including 11 felonies, and pay a record $4.5 billion fine. three bp employees were charged. two of them with manslaughter. congressman ed marky, a tough bp critic, reacted to the news. >> it is now clear that bp was lying to the congress. they were deliberately lowballing the number. because their liability is directly tied to the number of barrels of oil that flow into the ocean. >> the oil spill showed just how unreliable the company and industry has been when it comes to regulation. this is why elections matter. regulations was one of the central issues during this campaign. just listen to how governor romney defended big oil on the campaign trail. >> but what we don't need is to have the president keeping us from taking advantage of oil, coal, and gas. >> on day one i'm going to act to increase the number of leases and permits to drill on federal lands. >> in fact, as the oil continued to spill in the gulf, listen to what one republican lawmaker told the ceo of bp during a hearing on capitol hill. >> i think it is a tragedy of the first proportion that a private corporation can be subjected to what i would characterize as a shakedown, in this case a $20 billion shakedown. but i
that's what republicans are doing tonight. the chaos in the gop is spilling over. and threatening to blow up our economy. right now house republicans are ignoring the potential deal over in the senate. and instead trying to charge ahead with their own plan designed to appease the tea party. but just moments ago, they called off that vote. it's been postponed indefinitely. apparently because they didn't think they had the votes to pass their own plan. republicans have been playing games all day, and now they have nothing to show for it. president obama says enough is enough. >> the problem with the house is right now, i think, the house republicans still believe that they can get concessions for doing their job and making sure that the american people aren't hurt. what i'm suggesting to the congressional leaders is let's not do any pasturing. let's not try to save face. let's not worry about politics. do what's right. open the government and make sure we're paying our bills. and we could do that today. >> instead of working on a solution, tea party lawmakers are openly mocking the senate deal. that could be the only way forward out of the mess they've created. one tea party congressman sneered about the senate surrender caucus. another puffed, seems to be an ox si my moron, the word senate then plan. another called it a piece of mushy blank. these are the people making decisions that could affect millions of americans. it's time for speaker boehner to end this crisis now. >> can you guarantee to the american people congress will not go past the deadline and push us into default? >> listen, i have made clear for months and months that the idea of default is wrong. and we shouldn't get anywhere close to it. >> we shouldn't, but we are. and speaker boehner and his tea party extremists are the reason why. this is not some little prank that you pull and post on youtube. this is real. it's serious. just moments ago the fitch credit rating agency warned the u.s. rating for negative downgrade. it's time for john boehner to step up and stop republicans from blowing up our economy. joining me now is congressman elijah cummings andmy sh michel cottle. thank you both for coming on the show tonight. congressman, 30 hours from the beginning of a default, and house republicans pull their bill after the right wing heritage action group urged a no vote. what do you make of this. >> well, reverend, if you look at the heritage memo they sent to republicans, it is all about the affordable care act. they are still upset with it. they're trying to destroy it. what they're saying is, look, the bill that boehner is presenting does not have the kind of provisions that we want -- it doesn't address the affordable care act and kill it, so we don't vote for it. so basically what's happened is that the republican party has allowed the tea party to control it in the congress. they and the heritage foundation, they are controlling everything. and at the same time threatening -- they've already shut down the government for 15 days, reverend. 15 days at $1.6 million a day. over $2 billion a already. and then at the same time, reverend, they are threatening the full faith and credit of the country. >> boehner had a bill and then all of a sudden they pull it back. i mean, 30 hours before we go into default with fitch looking at downgrading us. they're playing these kind of games, congressman? >> it's totally irresponsible. it's un-american. and it's letting down the people of our country. they've got to put country before party. country before tea party. >> the heritage action and the tea party, what is their strength, what is their power? how can they maneuver and manipulate the speaker of the house like this? >> well, look. with a lot of the congressional districts and a lot of these people were sent here with the promise they were going to defund obama care. what they are worried about is a primary. there's little incentive for them to compromise. what heritage action promises is that if you don't stick by the kind of most intransigent line here, they will make them pay. >> i mean, we've been hearing games like children in a schoolyard rather than leaders dealing with a critical economic crisis all day long. >> exactly. i mean, basically that's one. i'm going to take my toys and go home if you don't give me what i want here. but i think at some level they have to know that that would be terrible. this would be terrible pr. they've been working really hard to convince america they're not the reason this has happened. that it's obama or senate democrat who is have caused this shutdown. and i think that would kind of put a nail in it. >> but boehner has said he doesn't want the shutdown. so what can he do? i mean, is he that easy -- i mean, the default. we've had the shutdown 15 days. but is he that lame as a leader? is he that week as a leader? he says i don't want it, but we're right there. >> i think boehner is worried about losing his speakership, to be frank with you. he could easily bring this bill, a clean bill to the floor today. as a matter of fact, the senate has already passed a bill to open up the government. he could bring that to the house tonight and we could have the government open in the next hour. literally. but he refuses to do that. i think basically he's afraid and michelle made a good point. a lot of his members are saying that they are afraid that somebody's going to run against them from the right. if you look at the heritage foundation memo that was sent this evening, it says we are going to score this. we're going to score this against you. and if you vote for this bill that certainly is unacceptable to democrats in the congress, but if you vote for it, we're going against you. >> but this is frightening, congressman. because we're being told that we could end up with a downgrading of this country's credit. that we could be -- where we can't pay bills and services. we've already shut down at a cost of $2 billion so far as you say. and the speaker can't do anything? you want to hold a title that means nothing? a crown with no throne? this is ridiculous. >> what the speaker can do is lead. and he needs to do that. and i think he really needs to say to this tea party crowd, look. our country -- you're putting our country in a situation where not only will you bring down our economy, not only will you destroy jobs, not only will you effect the economy of the world, we just simply can't do this. this is our watch. we need to do better. let's make this happen. and then take the democratic votes that he has and that's all of them, and take the republicans who have agreed that they want a clean bill to open up the government to do that. and then to address the debt ceil, of cour ceiling, of course. >> michelle let me ask you, let's not forget this is all about the affordable care act or obama care. here's a clue how funding until mid-december and then runs out. according to "the washington post," paul ryan argued the house would need the deadline as leverage for delaying the health care law's individual mandate and adding a conscience clause. that would allow employers and insurers to opt out of birth control coverage. they want to have this whole fight all over again about obama care. >> exactly. and this is precisely why obama has been hesitant to haggle over details. you'll get the questions whether or not senators have to get this sort of thing with their health care coverage, because he doesn't want to be held hostage why republicans decide to pick and choose whatever they want and don't want to be in this law. >> we are 29 1/2 hours away from an economic disaster, and they're going back to women's health. this is amazing. congressman elijah cummings and michelle cottle, thank you for your time tonight. ahead, what was really behind that confederate flag at the white house? we'll reveal the 40 years of republican rhetoric that led to this national embarrassment. plus, why right wingers are ramping up their impeachment hysteria with sarah palin on board. there's nowhere for these folks to go but down. and supreme court justice scalia talking today about the blacks. you heard that right. the blacks. a jaw-dropping comment today on affirmative action. also, what's on your mind? e-mail me. friend or foe, i want to know. reply al is ahead. hungry for the best? it's eb. want to give your family the very best in taste, freshness, and nutrition? it's eb. eggland's best. better taste. better nutrition. better eggs. it's eb. have you joined the "politicsnation" conversation on facebook yet? we hope you will. today our facebook family had a lot to say about that confederate flag at the tea party protest outside the white house. teresa says when i saw this, i was reminded of the most shameful time in our history. and i for one do not want to see this type of racism ever again. luis says, how can you call yourself patriotic and still wave this flag that represents racism, hatred, and treason? coming up, more on this ugly scene and what led to it. but first, tell us what you think of this story. please head over to facebook and search "politicsnation" and like us to join the conversation that keeps going long after the show ends. i'm a careful investor. when you do what i do, you think about risk. i don't like the ups and downs of the market, but i can't just sit on my cash. i want to be prepared for the long haul. ishares minimum volatility etfs. investments designed for a smoother ride. find out why 9 out of 10 large professional investors choose ishares for their etfs. ishares by blackrock. call 1-800-ishares for a prospectus, which includes investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses. read and consider it carefully before investing. risk includes possible loss of principal. losing thrusters. i need more power. give me more power! [ mainframe ] located. ge deep-sea fuel technology. a 50,000-pound, ingeniously wired machine that optimizes raw data to help safely discover and maximize resources in extreme conditions. our current situation seems rather extreme. why can't we maximize our... ready. ♪ brilliant. let's get out of here. warp speed. ♪ we've entered the third week of the government shutdown. 15 days in, and real americans are hurting. but these guys don't care about people worrying about making ends meet. they've shown a complete dis disregard for ordinary people. as millions suffer, members of congress are raking in their six figure salary even if they don't know it. iowa congressman steve king said, quote, i don't know if i'm paid or not. i haven't looked. i have not. this guy has no clue if the money is there? you can be sure the furloughed workers are aware. today a group went to capitol hill literally praying congress would end this shutdown. >> may our walking these halls and praying with congress be the bridge that you need for healing and for some sanity and caring for all. ♪ amazing grace ♪ how sweet the sound >> singing "amazing grace," they visited the office of house republicans to tell them how much the shutdown is hurting real people. the pain is front page news across the country. in arizona veterans are worried they won't get their benefits. in iowa head start programs are scrambling to stay open. in florida, it's taking longer to get approved for a mortgage. in kansas there are plans to withhold checks for the women, infants, and children nutritional program. the longer this shutdown goes on, the more ordinary people are struggling. >> coffee shops' financial success is driven by tourists that visit the shenandoah national park. business has dropped off significantly. >> right now with the disease that i have, hasn't progressed too far yet. it's still early in its stage. >> and it's hoped science can keep the disease at bay through an experimental protocol involving a critical bone marrow transplant offered through the national institutes of health. >> victor santori says controllers will get half a paycheck tuesday. faa furloughs are impacting safety. >> every day this goes on, it just peels away at the margin of safety. >> the republicans responsible for this mess show a complete disregard for real people. joining me now is sister simone campbell. she's the executive director of network, a national catholic social justice lobby. she led some of the prayers this morning in the capitol. thank you for being here. >> it's an honor to be with you. >> i want to start by asking you about the breaking news that house speaker boehner pulled back a vote on his own bill after a powerful tea party group came out against it. >> i find that shocking. the peace we were praying for today with speaker boehner's office and many of the offices was that there would be the courage to stand up to these extremist interests and to make sure that the common good is cared for. hearing from low wage workers who work as contractors with the federal government, who are on minimum wage and have no other income, they're worried about how they're going to eat tonight. i mean, it's shocking that we just deal with it as policy and politics. but these are real people suffering, families suffering. and it is wrong. >> now, i mean, i think that the thing that really bothers me and as i was watching the footage of the prayer, like this is not a game. we're talking about real life here. >> absolutely. it is not a game. and this has gone on so long that the terror that is being created in the working poor in our nation is huge. they -- mothers are not getting what they need for their children. food is not being given to kids. that's wrong in the richest nation on earth. we need to wake up to the fact that working people are struggling because of the shutdown. and end it. >> and they want to shut it down over the affordable care act that was already passed. he "huffington post" put together things members of congress have been doing instead of finding an end to the shutdown. they grand standed at the world war ii memorial that they closed down. one berated a park ranger telling her she should be ashamed of doing her job. and another group put on white lab coats to complain about the cuts to the national institute of health. that their shutdown caused. i mean, they have had a lot of time for photo ops. did any have time to talk to you today or the workers who haven't got their paycheck? >> we did not talk to any of the members of congress today. we talked to their staffs. several of their staffs told us that their member really wants to get a deal, wants to get something done. but we didn't get a commitment from any of them they were going to stand up. our prayer today was for their courage to act for the common good. it's for all of our benefit to end this. >> now, over the weekend, many on the right held the -- attended the values voter summit -- value voters summit. and they kept slamming programs that help people. listen to this. >> obama care is really, i think, the worst thing that has happened in this nation since slavery. >> it's time to rethink our dysfunctional welfare system that holds poor families down. >> we're moving away to a dependency society. you don't believe that, look at all the street corners that accept ebt cards. >> we need to encourage work, not dependence. but our people want jobs. not a safety net as a way of life. >> this egregious system that will be ultimately known as death care must be defeated. >> i mean, are republicans happy about this shutdown because they're so opposed to government programs? >> that's the only thing that makes any sense. i think they want to use this as a moment to grand stand. but what they totally miss, reverend, is that in business week today, there was an article about mcdonald's, the fast food program, that mcdonald's employees work at minimum wage or low wages and they -- mcdonald's uses $7 billion of our safety net program for their workers. low wage workers are just that. they're workers. and this statement totally missed the fact about hard working americans trying to raise their families. >> i'm out of time, but i want to ask. you've been critical of congressman paul ryan in particular his budget cuts. and he's writing op-eds about how to end the shutdown, speaking out at the meetings at the white house. what do you make of his involvement? >> i think he wants to find a deal, but i think he does -- he's got a mind for the numbers but he doesn't have a mind for the people. he doesn't have a heart for the people. and that's the piece he needs to open up to and if he has a heart for the people, he can use his fine mind and find a solution. >> he has a mind for the numbers, not a heart for the people. sister simone campbell, thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you. coming up, more on that confederate flag outside the white house. why it shouldn't be a surprise. and affirmative action hits the supreme court. and justice antonin scalia is talking about, quote, the blacks. my response is coming. 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because the real boss spoke up. remember him? former senator jim demint. he left the senate back in january to pull strings behind the curtain running the right wing heritage foundation. he is one of the early leaders in the destroy obama care movement. you know the guy who said this about health care in 2009. >> if we're able to. so obama on this, it will be his waterloo. it will break him. >> it will break him. three years later, and look what's happening? it's breaking boehner. here's the translation. john boehner, i'm your boss. you better hold the line on this or else. joining me now are goldie taylor and ryan grim. thank you both for coming on the show tonight. >> thank you. >> pleasure. >> ryan, incredible events unfolding. how scared of jim demint is speaker boehner that he pulls his own bill? >> i mean, he clearly must not have had the votes after heritage told people to vote no. the way this works is that heritage action which is the corporate/grassroots right wing organization decides that certain votes are quote, unquote key votes. which means those are the ones they're going to count when it comes time for re-election. all the other votes are kind of freebies. so as long as you vote the right way on the key votes, then you're okay as far as heritage is concerned. so they said this afternoon this is a key vote and we want you to vote no. and boom, everybody apparently told the speaker's office they were going to vote no. the reasoning is amazing. heritage said that because this does not undo obama care, you have to vote no. in other words, the group that is controlling the tea party at the eleventh hour is still insisting that there can be no deal unless it undoes obama care. >> but ryan, you've been on the hill all day. any sense this was coming, that this was going to transpire? >> it's been a roller coaster. in the morning there's a huge amount of pessimism. then things started to pick up as it looked like the house was going to put something together they would send back to the senate and then there would be a little bit of fight over whether or not this would be included. but then this just blew everything up. people are shock at this point. they thought we'll have the vote tonight, then the senate will deal with whatever they get from the house side and we'll take it from there. now it's gone. this means boehner has tried everything possible which means he has two options left. either default or turn to the democrats. >> goldie, when he had announced as i just read at 4:35 the spokesperson, they were going to have the vote. they were going to deal with the shutdown, avoid the default. demint comes out with the heritage action, says don't vote. he backs down. last week jim demint wrote a letter to president obama on obama care. he writes, we believe the law should be fully repealed, but at minimum both sides should agree not to fund the law for one year. a time-out that would hualt the law's most harmful effects before they start. he's been able to call the shots here which is frightening considering the position he has to the far, far right. >> one of the things jim demint knew was being leader of the heritage foundation was important. he is able to coalesce a critical mass of votes, enough that it takes to stop legislation coming in and out of the house. and clearly he's shown himself to be that powerful today with speaker boehner. i'm not willing to let speaker boehner off the hook. he's had the option for a very long time to put a clean cr on the floor of the house and he has steadfastly refused. i don't think it is just that boehner is afraid of, you know, the people at heritage. i think he is beginning to line up with them along with is the other 30 or 40 republicans who do so more regularly. and so i'm not as willing to give speaker boehner the discount some of my colleagues are. in effect what heritage has done is they've strapped dynamite on the bridge on the way to reconciliation on opening up this government. >> you know, goldie says, ryan, it's more powerful to be head of the heritage foundation than a senate. when you have property jays in the senate like rubio, lee, cruz, you don't have to be a senator. the property jteges are doing t. before you respond to his proteges doing the work, let me underscore. he said he was going to break president obama. he has not broken president obama yet at all. he maybe has broken boehner. the president has not at all blinked. >> that's right. you know, the troops that lost waterloo, they retreated and went home. that was it. you know, he fought -- demint fought that battle. he thought it was going to be obama's waterloo. it was his. he wants to have another one. i don't see what the end game is for demint or for the tea -- the end game is fine for demint. he's now making a million dollars a year at heritage action and incidentally he's under a lobbying ban which means he's not supposed to be lobbying the united states senate. yet he did a tour recently with ted cruz who is a senator. but whatever. that's kind of a different matter, but i don't understand what the tea party's end game is here. okay. you're not going to defund obama care. that's not going to happen. so what exactly are you trying to accomplish here? >> well, you know, goldie, before we get into the end game, ryan says that he's toured with ted cruz. listen to how ted cruz talks about his mentor mr. demint. >> kids all over the world wear superman pajamas. superman wears chuck norris pajamas. and let me tell you, chuck norris wears jim demint pajamas. >> so i mean, he holds him in high esteem. >> it seems that he does. i think that jim demint probably wears clown pajamas. at the end of the day, it comes down to he has the number of minions or proteges in the senate. but he also has a very direct line to the grassroots. they are not fighting down on the fight against obama care. they intend -- well, they hope to intend to either impeach this president, delegitimatize him in some other way, and they will fight or die trying. that is where we sit. in firms terms of how we're goi get the government open, it is going toation rational fair minded republicans who will stand up and call this for what it is. it is election chicanery and it has to stop now. >> well, ryan, here's part of what the reasonable republicans are dealing with. the heritage group has vowed to go after those that are not far right enough. it announced a $550,000 defund obama care ad campaign. in 100 republican-controlled districts to pressure republicans. this is one of the things i think that is being considered by the so-called reasonable republicans. what's the end game of doing that in these 100 republican-controlled districts, ryan? >> it's a war for the sole of the republican party. and they want to annihilate vestige of old school conservatism. there's a radical activist conservatism that's on display here. and that's what they're trying to accomplish. you know, the thing is -- you know, you can debate about how much damage will be done by defaulting. there's no question that a significant amount will be done. that means that these folks are oak with that. so you have to ask why is it that they're okay with that? and i think some of it is they hate this president so much and they're so convinced that this country is headed in some socialist communist direction that they really do have to destroy it and hurt it. and sort of sharpen the krixs in a marxist kind of way so they can hasten their version of a right wing revolution. it's a very strange spot for them. >> that's a great segue into my next block. that's exactly where i'm going. the hatred of this president. ryan grim and goldie taylor, thank you both for your time this evening. and don't forget, demint has not broken this president. we'll be right back. explorer card. i've saved $75 in checked bag fees. 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>> i'm from the south. i'm from south carolina. i got to be honest with you, that is one of the most offensive thing i've seen in my life. first of all, that guy in my opinion is trailer trash. i don't know where he's from, but he needs to go back and stay there. he can fly his flag at his house. that's fine. but to take that flag and fly it in front of the white house that has in it the first african-american president of this country is patently offensive. it is blatantly racist and has zero to do with southern pride. i have ancestors that fought in that war, the civil war. they died for their cause. guess what, they lost. i'm over it. the south needs to get over it. and that to me is one of the most awful things i've seen in the five i can't have years of barack obama's presidency. >> jimmy, let me ask you. there were republican electeds there. have you heard any of them denounce that flag? >> no, no, no. in their minds if you just don't address it, then it doesn't exist. the racism doesn't exist. you mentioned this issue of what atwater did on the southern strategy with key words. forced bussing, states rights. this theory of states rights, that is nothing more than when you hear conservatives say things like big powerful federal government. we'd rather have the power back in the states. really? i suppose they then probably just bristled the idea of the 1964 civil rights act which you mentioned that said you can't tell black people they can't come into your store. you can't say they can't stay at your hotel. those were states rights. >> we're back to states rights with voter situations, they want it with immigration. states rights is states rights and it's always been to civil rights. >> it's ironic today is the date that the united states supreme court i believe in 1888 or 1877 in essence overturned the 1875 civil rights law. and said -- it actually nullified the 14th amendment saying just what you said. that an individual does not -- the federal government does not have a right to tell an individual that they can't discriminate against someone. that's on this date. the reality is this. not only did that flag fly this weekend, but joe the plumber issued a statement on his blog saying that what really is america is that the republican needs a white candidate. now, here you say that republican leadership. >> say we need a white republican president. he printed an article. >> it was written by an african-american. now, if i were mr. 9-9-9 or a black republican, i would be mad as hell. how dare he say that and then you don't even have blacks say anything about it. >> jimmy, when you go back to what you said, you're from south carolina. when you go back to lee atwater, where the strategy was play race, don't make it explicit, but that's what you're doing. is that what we are seeing in the venom that has been directed at president obama? a 21st century southern strategy. we're talking about a president who's been questioned in terms of his citizenship, his birth has been called everything. is this part of the southern strategy to play to some base race instincts in parts of this country? >> i think it's a modern day southern strategy. i don't think it's just a southern strategy. i think you and joe would both agree, racists are confined just to the south. there are plenty all over this country. don't forget the bussing riots in boston, for gosh sakes. but it is a modern day sort of extension of that. you can smell it. you know when stewart said i'll know pornography when i see it. you know when you see racism because they question your morality, your religion, your birth. they question it as if you don't belong here. as if the president of the united states doesn't actually belong here. you heard larry klayman what he said to that same group of people. what had he said was he wants a president that worships to the foot of allah to walk out with his hands up as if he's a petty criminal. now, he doesn't have to call barack obama the "n" word. he doesn't need to. it's just as overt as anything i've ever seen. >> this is abstract language and we know it. remember mal con x said if you live south of the canadian border, you live in the south. but the reality is this. i'm going to tell you what the next step is going to be. they're going to lose on this obama care. they're going to lose on the default. the next step -- and i made a point this morning -- the next step is going to be articles of impeachment. that's going to be the next step that they're going to use. >> well, they're already beginning the rhetoric of impeachment, but i think it is interesting that we've seen atwaterism -- >> but atwater apologized on his death bed to ron brown for making that statement. >> yes, he did. >> here's where they're going to try the impeachment thing. if we do the default, if boehner can't get the vouts out of the house. if the president using the 14th amendment to pay the bills, i guarantee you articles of impeachment will be used and they will move forward on that. >> well, we will be following this closely. jimmy williams, joe madison, thank you both for your time tonight. >> thank you. coming up, supreme court justice scalia talked to the blacks. you heard that right. the blacks. his jaw-dropping comment today on affirmative action is up next. thank you orville and wilbur... ...amelia... neil and buzz: for teaching us that you can't create the future... by clinging to the past. and with that: you're history. instead of looking behind... delta is looking beyond. 80 thousand of us investing billions... in everything from the best experiences below... to the finest comforts above. we're not simply saluting history... we're making it. today at the supreme court, the justices heard arguments about affirmative action. a critical case that could effect diversity and education across the country. k but service associate justice antonin scalia who said something that really shocked a lot of people. he said quote, we've held that the 14th amendment protects all races. i mean, that was the argument in the early years, that it protected only the blacks. but i thought we rejected that. the blacks? talking about the blacks? is this the kind of tone deaf language we should be hearing at the nation's highest court in the year 2013? we've come to expect it from justice scalia. he's the one who called voting a quote, racial entitlement in arguments on the voting rights act earlier this year. we'll keep watching him and this important case. and the court -- as the court's term continues. in the nation, sometimes bad things happen. add brand new belongings from nationwide insurance and we'll replace stolen or destroyed items with brand-new versions. we put members first. join the nation. ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪ he was a matted messiley in a small cage. ng day. so that was our first task, was getting him to wellness. without angie's list, i don't know if we could have found all the services we needed for our riley. from contractors and doctors to dog sitters and landscapers, you can find it all on angie's list. we found riley at the shelter, and found everything he needed at angie's list. join today at angieslist.com still running in the morning? 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>> so my story about strom thurmond begins, it's late july, 1992, and i'm on a flight from washington, d.c. to charlotte, north carolina. i had been an intern that summer up on capitol hill, and one of my regrets of the summer was that i'd never seen strom thurmond. because all my fellow interns said you've got to see strom thurmond. he such an unusual appearance about him. i did know what they meant really your but i had my suspicions. so i'm on the flight and a look ahead in front of me and i see a man who's got kind of orange colored hair practically, so brightly colored. first generation hair plugs. shows you how slow i am that i think to myself, that must be what strom thurmond's head looks like. then, of course, it wasn't strom thurmond. i knew that when people reaching over trying to shake his hand. i wanted to shake his hand, too, because i'd been in d.c. that summer for the first time, and i met all of these politicians i've seen a tv. i was about to go home and speak to my dads rotary club and i wanted to tell them all about the famous people i met up in washington, d.c. and so i was going to try to shake his hand when i got off the plane come but as i got off the plane there were people already lined up to shake his hand. and i didn't get in line, and i didn't, i was in a constituent. i'm not a south carolinians. i don't have anything really to say to him, really. and i also to be honest was a little self-conscious. it was a busy airport. i was kind of self-conscious about standing in line waiting to greet a man who is best known for his old segregationist harangue. so i thought it was good enough to say i had seen him. and keep on walking. i get down, i'm conflicted do. i'm conflicted, and i walked down the concord about 100 yards and i look back and hear everybody is shaking his head, and here's this 89 year-old man at the time, he's got it his briefcase in one hand and a travel bag in the other, and a package under one arm and he's just shuffling down this busy crowded airport. and without thinking i go back and introduce my and introduce most of an asset senator thurmond, my name is joseph crespino, i would be happy to get you to your next life. and he said are you sure you got enough time, i don't want to delay you. i said i got plenty of time. so i picked up his bag. we walked together for about 10 minutes. and i was just trying to make conversation with strom thurmond. so i told him about all the people i've met that summer, and he said nice things about the various colleagues that i've met and that kind of thing. i told him i was on my way, i had a girlfriend from florence, south carolina, and i said some silly comment about south carolina girls. it was the smalltalk one made with strom thurmond. i got into his flight, and i shook his hand again, and that was it. but i thought about that story a lot as i was writing this book. because of that story is really a metaphor for the difficulty i had in writing about this, or the challenge that i face in writing about this or controversial figure. you know, there's not easy or straightforward way to write about a figure as controversy all as strom thurmond. and sometimes as i've been reading this book i've wondered if some of the stuff in the book is not another effort on my part to carry his baggage. and goodness knows he's got baggage that needs carried. but the other challenge i had, really, the real challenge i had with this book was the kind of fight the urge to not do kind of, you do, simply walk away and not meet the man face-to-face, you know, and present him as a of three-dimensional character. some real breathing human being. so that's the challenge i face. what i wanted to be really is to write a book about, right history of strom thurmond's america, in a way that would in a critical but dispassionate way, a way that would shed light on some of the issues that have shaped each of our own america's today. and i hope that in doing so you can add, a measure of reason and passion to these issues that embroil our politics today, and that divide us so. so that was the goal. that's the mission as it were, but what are the big issues? one of the issues that a history of strom thurmond's americaspeaks to? we remember, a lot of us remember who strom thurmond was. strom thurmond was a 1948 presidential candidate. strom thurmond was one of the lead authors of the 1956 southern manifesto. this is the protest the supreme court decision in the brown v. board of education decision 1954. strom thurmond is a recordholder to this day of the longest one man filibuster. and again his work pashtun and the guinness book of world records, 24 hours and 18 minutes he spoke against the 1957 civil rights bill. we remember strom thurmond today as one of the last of the jim crow demagogues. and he was. he was that. he was one of the last jim crow demagogue. what we forget about thurmond is that he was also one of the first of the sun belt conservatives. what do i mean by that? what's a sun belt conservative? the sun belt, it's one of the big stories, one of the major stories in the history of 20th century american politics. and that is the flow of jobs, of industry, of resources and population from the states of the northeast and the midwest to the south and the southwest in the post-world war ii period. the southern states were recruiting industries. they were passing right-to-work laws. they were receiving lots of funding from the federal government to build military installations at a time when the united states was involved in the cold war against the soviet union. so states like mississippi, states like georgia and texas and florida and southern california, arizona, north carolina are all being transformed in the post-world war ii period by this historic shift in population and political influence. just think about it. really does three from 1964 to two dozen eight could be thought of as kind of the carried of sun belt dominance in american presidential history. if you think about every president elected from 1964-2008 comes from a state of the sun belt. lyndon johnson from texas, richard nixon from california, gerald ford was never elected. he was not even elected vice president. he was a michigan. jimmy carter from georgia. ronald reagan from california. first george bush, texas by a connecticut. bill clinton from arkansas, and the second bush from texas. so 2008 is in some ways a watershed election. it is this 40 year period of sun belt dominance. and there were issues that are critical in the politics that develop, that came out of the sun belt. they tended to have a conservative task to them. they tended to be oriented around history of strong national defense, of an opposition to unions and a defense of free enterprise politics. and also it's in the sun belt, in the south and southwest that we see the rise of what we see by the 1970s is becoming to talk about as the religious right, the rise of evangelical involved in the clinical process in new and important ways. so thurmond was at the forefront of all of those issues in his own politics. national defense, he was a staunch anti-communist. he played an important role in right wing anti-communist populist politics in the late '50s and early 1960s. it's one of the things that led him to switch parties in 1964. he was a key figure in opposing labor unions. he did so alongside people like barry goldwater. even the early in his career he had been a staunch advocate of unions in south carolina back in the '30s and '40s when the union vote was an important vote in south carolina, but he switches in the '50s and 60s about 1970s, some diehard supporter of business against labor. then he also is important role in conservative evangelical politics. he joins the board of bob jones university in 1950. he does it to win votes. bob jones had just moved, just moved his university and thurmond needed votes in south carolina. had lost in 1950 race for the senate to johnson, larger on the strength of votes he didn't win in the up country. that began a long process, a long relationship of thurmond with conservatives fundamentalists and evangelicals who are looking to get involved in the political process. so we need to understand thurmond's racial politics in the mix of these other conservative causes, these conservative issues that he was very involved in. and to see how they intersect with one another. and i think doing so gives us the history of what strom thurmond's america looks like, and else is rethink not only was going on in the south but was going on in the national conservative political realm as well. rethink and strom thurmond helps us think modern conservatism to a history i think that is too often thurmond is left out of because we only remember him as this kind of cartoonish racist figure from the deep south. let me read you, an excerpt from the introduction. one reason we forget about strom thurmond is because he was so doggone old. right? [laughter] thurmond predated the founding generation of what is commonly understood as the modern conservative movement. he was the closest friend to william f. buckley senior and william f. buckley, jr., the founding editor of "national review" and one of the central figures of modern conservatism. buckley senior be restored in india government state in camden south carolina became a friend and regular correspondent with the then governor thurmond would have had no problem identifying as a strom thurmond american. i don't know of any other man in public life whose views i entirely approve of. his son has just ordered a new magazine and buckley sent them a years subscription to he said his son was a very fine public speaker and very sound adding he is for segregation in every issue. one of the most notorious editorials buckley, jr.'s published the national beer early years came during a battle and thurmond's career, the vikings 1957 civil rights bill. why the south must prevail a. four days before thurmond historic filibuster. i'm quoting now from that editorial. 57, the "national review." essential question that emerges is whether the white community in the south isn't up to take such measures as are necessary to prevail politically and culturally in areas in which it does not predominate in america. the sobering answer is yes. the white community is so entitled because for the time being it is the advanced race. buckley, jr. and thurmond would seem to occupy separate polls in conservative politics. their actions alone marked a alone marked their different backgrounds and experiences. it is easy to forget that buckley was once a fledgling writer and publisher trying to stimulate himself and the world of politics and letters. the son of a oil baron, and thurmond was a priceless compact, father and son both. later, after a seachange inaugurated on the civil rights movement, thurmond would not be the only conservative leader with a segregationist record in need of scrubbing. in the 20 century american right was a smaller, more interconnected world than we often remember. now, i think strom thurmond life is interesting for the life that it shed on southern and -- it properly the light it sheds on southern a national politics in the second half of the 20th century. but strom thurmond's life is also interesting simply as a life. i mean, the man lived to be 100. he was full of twists and turns. it was full of psychological complexity, and unintended consequences, and it was full of secrets, too, right? we know the secret of his having fathered an african-american daughter, that we learned about after his death. i want to talk also a bit, too, about the motivations of thurmond, what drove him, and a lot of that comes back to his childhood. the most important figure in thurmond's life was his father. his father had an interesting career. his father was an up-and-coming young politician, kind of in the blue machine of pitchfork ben gilman. ben gilman the biggest men in south carolina politics. he was also in demagogue of the jim crow south. he was the biggest men in south carolina, and thurmond's father was kind of a lieutenant in his operation. his father had been elected kind of a county prosecuting attorney and he was a successful career. he was on the rise when he got into a dispute one afternoon with the men. the men picked a fight with thurmond, saying that he was complaining about a position that his father had not been appointed to. the man was drunk and he was very, he cursed at thurmond and all the kind of separate they got into a road. thurmond walked back to his law office. the men came back around, thurmond ended up shooting the man and he was acquitted for self-defense. at if you're trying to build a political career, the county's biggest law enforcement official, it doesn't help if you've been on trial for murder. that's not good. and, in fact, thurmond would run for the house of representatives a couple years later, and he ended up finishing a distant third. he wouldn't ever run for electoral office again. but he ended of being an important kind of behind the scenes guy. important behind the scenes figure in south carolina politics. he would support important candidates and he was kind of managed things behind the scenes. and one of the campaigns that he managed was a campaign that was very influential in the lives of young strom thurmond. it was the 1912 gubernatorial election between ira jones was a former speaker of the house of softer leather, that was the candidate that strom thurmond's father supported. i read jones versus coleman believes, another important figure out of south carolina politics. very influential figure. and thurmond would always tell the store, strom thurmond would come about when people asked him how did you get involved in politics, when did you know you want to be a politician? he says i remember when i was, back when i was a boy i saw that race between ira jones and coal, and i saw how cold, i saw what he did to ira jones on the stump and i always found that i would learn how to speak on the stump and i would be able to defend myself. is a certain irony to that store because he was never known for skills on the stump as a speaker. but that's the way he renumbered it. that's the way he always told that story. and he told over and over when reporters would ask in that question. it's a formative story and i think that some of his other -- they missed what was important and what's interesting about that story. strom thurmond recalled his debate between them as his first lesson in political self-defense. and the importance of being killed in the verbal warfare of the stump, yet jones is generally asia was always matched in thurmond's memory by cole's master. and the power it gave him with the masses. in 1912, at age nine, thurmond encountered up close at an impressionable age the power of the demagogue, and expense both fearsome and a lowering your thurmond himself to on this background 36 years later when as a presidential candidate east polk the racist resentments. it was in birmingham in jul july 1948 that thurmond offered his own form of -- swearing that there were not enough troops in the army to force southerners to abandon segregation. hit you up on the 24 hour and 18 months he spent announcing the civil rights bill of 1957, as well as another firebrand oration he gave any massive resistance era, such as the 9058 speech on the supreme court's unconstitutional usurpation and unlawful delegations of power. ya thurmond also remembered the disdain of his father and other town folks, how cold mock attitude and opinion of the thinking people. it was one reason perhaps why later in his career thurmond would embrace the kind of magical thinking about his own adventures and demagoguery. denying that out right are civilly to rationalize them into something other. for the rest of his career, the poles between which strom thurmond's political ambitions would swing were established in the 1912 race. the intelligence, honorable jones was also hamstrung and toothless. blease, as despicable as he was to thurmond's father and his circle of respect, was stylish, clever, and formidable. it would seem that the firm and the principles that came vaguely combing old in thurmond's mind was political weakness, and perhaps, too, with his father's failed ambitions. while others decried as a listed and impoverished, thurmond knew to be something else as well. a key demand spheres and passions, up path to the influence and renowned that his father always longed for. but never achieved. now, there's one more i want to say about strom thurmond early years, and it revolved around one of the great things i found when i stood research for this book. i found it to a gentleman from edge hill, south carolina, a man who was himself an amateur historian, a lawyer, a very talented historian. a close friend of the thurmond's. who pointed me to a history, a biography of a man named francis butler simkins. he was in his own day a very well-known historian himself. in fact, francis butler kind of magnum opus as a biography of pitchfork ben tillman from his own hometown. so simkins grew up in a small town south to let up always fascinated with his own hometown. at some point he sat down to write this kind of gossip, thinly fictionalized account of his hometown called lich would. it was called in his text but the thing was never published. it's now preserved only in the archives at longwood university in virginia, where simkins taught for his whole life. but it offers a unique perspective on edgefield and the air in which strom thurmond was growing up, an era in which will thurmond was the biggest most influential figure in edgefield political life there in the early 1910s and '20s. let me read you all a bit of this and i'm going to stop talking. for sometime in the late 1940s, early 1950s, francis butler said and sat down to write a gossip fictionalized memoir about growing up in edgefield, or lich would as it appears in his text. it was never published and is preserved today only in his personal papers at longwood. the untitled manuscript is fastening for the light it sheds on his one time neighbors, simkins grew up on the road in a house right across from where strong truman -- strom thurmond grew up. he was fighters older than strom thurmond but andy wrote about two characters. the name hog stoopes and his son, still. these were not fictional characters also exactly the real of the compliments of will and strom thurmond as to make a pseudonym for purpose but at one point symptoms even slips and refers to hog stoopes as will. to spice my areas in facts, the manuscript revived and expected on will and strom thurmond and on edge would. symptoms treatment of hog stoopes is relatively generous. describing hogs as cold-blooded in his law practice, learned in the technicalities of the law without the remotest interest in justice or impolite culture. simkins also pronounced him deserving of the honorary degree of awarded him by the university of south carolina. hage was lich woods man of moderation and charity, quote refuse to speak and kindly of anyone. accounts most popular citizen for 40 years. the distinctive goalie that emerges from simkins portrait of hog stoopes was that of a remarkably a detroit fixer. stoops quote ruled lich would county through machinations so secret that one for decades could live under his authority without being aware of its existence. it was a quality that led blease to decried it as a pussyfoot. that's the other thing i didn't tell you about that 1912 election is that blease didn't just attack i read jones on the stump that he actually attacked strom thurmond's father. he called and pussyfoot for the we went around behind peoples back and didn't confront his political enemies man-to-man. that kind of thing. symptoms of a man whose candidacy at attorney was bloodlessly cut short by stoops. as was a schoolmaster whose dismissal stoops quietly engineered despite visiting the man before he left have to tell them how agreed he was to see him go. stone stoops was a slightly different breed. what possessing his father's sobriety, pleasing manners, industry and willingness to scheme to publish personal ambition, he was only half stoopes. the other was still. and it was on his mothers side of the famine that he was said to have inherited a penchant for acts of wild folly. he had an uncle on his mother side he was possessed of energy so maniacal that he -- stoned blackhawks good sense and deceptiveness, simkins wrote. what his father achieved by indirection, stone pursued openly and come in the process, attracted enemies. characteristics of halt and stone stoopes in simkins memoir provide context for defining event in the lives of will and strom thurmond. in the mid 1920s when strom was living at home in edgefield and teaching of the local high school, a situation developed inside the household going to when strom's acts of wild both. among the service employed was a 16 year-old african-american girl. october 1925, butler gave birth to a daughter, whom she named and see me. six months later, butler's sister took her to pennsylvania where she was moving with her husband. she passed the child to another sister who raised her as her own. not until she was 13 did she learn the identity of her actual mother. three years later, she met her father, strom thurmond, in his law office just off the town square in edgefield. essie mae's birth in october go inside with an abrupt occupational change for thurmond. he had been a schoolteacher in edgefield. the paper in a guesthouse on the very day essie mae is born announces he quits his job in the middle of the school year and is taken a job with a real estate firm and will be sent, he's going to be assigned in richmond, virginia, and he stays in the job as a real estate agent in virginia until several months after essie mae, as an infant, had been moved to pennsylvania. but then he comes back to edgefield county and start his career can teaching high school. thurmond departed from edge field the same month of essie mae's month, and returned a few months after the child had been moved to pennsylvania. we do not know whether will thurmond played any role in strom's temporary career change, or in essie mae being sent to pennsylvania. it's hard to imagine, however, that a man so careful with appearances, so mindful of his reputation in edgefield and throughout south carolina, and so hopeful about his son's ambitions would not have some hand in making sure that the young man's indiscretions did not imperil his future prospects. will thurmond new by hard experience how a youthful mistake could forever alter a political career. perhaps he has used legal and financial contacts to help get strong out of town for a while. perhaps handed over money to ensure the baby was transported out of the state. if that had been his desire, a quiet conversation with some of the relatives was all that would have been required. late, the thurmond's would regulate pass money to essie mae's caregivers in which he came of age, to essie mae has so. there may have been a difference between father and son, a sense of judgment or discretion if did not make it to one generation to the next. yet there remains an awesome fact that testifies to the sensibilities as a fixer. the details of this act of miscegenation, a secret that likely would've ended his career had it been revealed that practically at any point in his nearly three quarter-century of public service he took with him to his grave. now, that's a story about how that secret begin. it began i believe really with will thurmond. it was will thurmond aspiration for his father. it's remarkable how that secret persisted for so long but, of course, by the 1990s it became the worst kept secret in south carolina. everybody suspected it. after some newspaper reporters tracked down an 11 washington. but there were other -- one of the great documents i found was from 1957 when thurmond gave his filibuster, yeah, for 24 hours in 1 18 minutes, there was an im published in the african-american university, the chicago defender. and the bulk of the item was puzzling over how was the thurmond was able to speak for 24 hours and 18 minutes with only one bathroom break. you've got to keep your voice lubricated. you've got to keep drinking water. the story the thurmond told to the press was he had gone down to the senate steam room and had intentionally dehydrated himself so when he drank water his body would absorb it like a sponge. i asked a urologist friend of mine about the viability of that, and he was pretty dubious. but that's the story but that's the story that's always been told. what was interesting about the peace in the african-american newspaper, the chicago defender, they said that the rumor around the capitol hill was that thurmond had been outfitted with a device designed for long motor trips, who at a catholic device to quit interesting about that is there was a memoir published a couple years ago by an african-american man from south carolina, longtime worker on capitol hill who says he was there when thurmond was outfitted with this bag that ran down his leg. but no other evidence for it, that kind of thing. so it's one of come it's one of those mysteries -- urological mr. szabo strom thurmond's career. [laughter] but at the end of that item that was largely about the mystery of the filibuster was this oblique statement. something like, that are rumors, there's talk that thurmond is not as opposed to black people as it might seem. you could take that to say there had been rumors published in 1940 when he is a presidential candidate that hit black cousins in pittsfield. but we also know that essie mae was already enrolled in school in south carolina at that time and that there are been rumors in the black community ever since then that she was a governor's daughter. vendors a remarkable thing of course that happened, he passes away. when essie mae washington holds a public news conference in south to assess strom thurmond was my father. they change the strom thurmond monument in south to lead. there was a black legislator who said what got to name his other four children on that monument here to we should put essie mae's name, too. and he did. there was a resolution that was passed and they change the monument. you know that old saying if it's written in stone, if it's written in stone you can change. that's not true. you can change don't all the time. they have to because they get dates wrong about when people die or when they are born or their names are spelled wrong. and i talked to the guy who owns the company who changed the strom thurmond memorial in columbus. and what you did issued a granite dust, you pounds that granite in till it's a fine powder and then you mix it with crazy glue. seriously. you mix it with plain old crazy glue. when it hardens is actually harder than the stone itself. they take that mixture and the pound and two where the letters had been carved to the action of pounded in so it's above the surface of the stone and they have to sand it smooth. then they carve back over the building area. they had to replace -- that was the trick that they could add essie mae's name on the bottom. there was space there, but it's a father of four children and had to change the for to a five. so when they carve back over that building area, if you don't get that granite powder really, really fine, it's got to be fine of that like baby powder, because if you don't when your car back over it it is prone to chipping but if you look closely at five, the i in the five got a chip on a. on the upper right side. and the left side of the v. is all squiggly. it's been shifted there, too. and the standing opened up that stone, the standing open up those other parts, the air and the oxidized but it's got a rust color all around the word five. the whole thing has been, you can change stone but you can't change it very easily. and you can see what is in effect the kind of scar on that monument. the stone has been scarred by the work that is been done to change that for into a fight. and in the epilogue, i reflect on the meaning of that scar. different ways different people could read the significance of the scarred stone. and in reading that stone in that monument, think about the legacy of strom thurmond on our politics today in the south and in the nation. if you want to know more about how you can read that still, i encourage you to buy this book. [laughter] and read it for yourself. you might learn something. i will even sign the book today. it's a painless process, i promise you. it's been a pleasure to be here, and thank you all for listening and coming out. [applause] >> and i think most of you probably come if you have questions, you cannot ask them to me before. but if there are any questions i'd be happy to field them. >> i have a question. i am very proud to know you, and i'm sure that -- [inaudible]. my question to you is, about trent lott and his comment that, when he got in trouble, saying that he used as his mentor, i think that's what -- >> though, he said he was proud his state voted for thurmond back in 40, and other states -- spelled right. did you address that in the book? >> i mention it in real-time. coming, it happened first in 1980. he said that in 1980, when he was introducing thurmond here in jackson. thurmond was a main speaker at a rally for ronald reagan a few days before the 1980 presidential elections. and for me it was interesting, it's interesting for lots of things in 1980 because trent lott is will in some ways a kind of figure to child in south olympic the last chapter of the book is -- that's where i deal with the revelations about essie mae washington williams and also tried to put that in a broader historical context to say that these are strom thurmond children before he had his nancy thurmond had been essie mae washington williams are but they're also figurative children. there's a generation of southern's who switched, democrats to the republican party. so that's what i talk about in the last chapter. so i talk about that just as kind of part of thurmond's reaction and other southern reactions to reagan in 1980. and then that party which trent lott says that again in 2002, this is in the summer of 2002, that was really kind of sort of thurmond's 100th birthday party but it's also sort of his going away party because his last year was, in the senate come his term is up in january 2003. he goes back to edge bill and the only lives for six more months. and at that point it's an interesting moment because that controversy kind of raises for the whole of coming in, the modern conservative movement, who is strom thurmond? and what role has deployed? and i thought it was trent lott and what role has deployed? and it's interesting, how other republicans and other conservatives are responding to that issue. and responding to that contribution. so that's part of the analysis, too, because they are interpreting thurmond. and, of course, what a lot of conservative national leaders are doing is they're trying to keep them as the crazy old all coal of the conservative revolution. a guy who's not really important, you know, conservative movement that's been going on in the last 50 years or so. and what part of my book is argued is thurmond was there all along at key moments and was a key figure. and the people to take them safely. it's not just like republican strategists thought thurmond was a kook. they didn't think he was a kook. goldwater didn't think he was a kook would've try to to get thurmond to switch parties in 19 safety for. richard nixon certainly didn't think he was a cook when thurmond helped them coming in a, kerry two states in the south when george wallace was running in 1968. so that's an important, you know, that controversy raised those broader issues really about thurmond's role in modern conservative history. and it's one of the things that sparked the idea for me to write the book in the first place. >> do you make much mention of -- [inaudible] >> before they were on the same ticket they were something of rivals. in fact it's a fascinating story that early on, the whole dixiecrat thing was in reaction to an address that shouldn't give, a set of proposals that truman gave in early 48. and all the southern governors, meeks in north florida outside of tallahassee at a governors conference that's what whole thing starts. and right was the hard line when. and thurmond, worked out by his close advisers said no, they said what we need is a 40 day cooling off period where we can figure out what we're going to do in that kind of thing. thurmond offered a resolution for cooling off period, and that's what got adopted. but then as he was asking people what they could do you realize that can people interested in cooling off. they wanted to stay fired up. and thurmond then kind of double down and said i need to keep involved in this. the reason, many people in south carolina recognized this at the time, is that thurmond was looking ahead to 1950. his gubernatorial term would be up in 1950. he couldn't succeed himself in after our politics and you want to run for the senate, the next rung on the latter. and to do that he had to get to the right of johnson. so in some ways it's ironic, thurmond runs for president so he can run for the senate. he runs for the presidency in 48 to really, you know, establish himself among the state rights crowd in south carolina and across the region. make a name for himself there. because ironically enough he was thought of as a liberal for a number of different reasons but because of his labor politics but also because he had called the fbi in to investigate a lynching that it happened in south carolina in 1947, and that was not a popular thing to do, to called in the fbi to investigate a lynching. but that's all in the book. it's a fascinating moment in his career. that's when a lot of things are really moving around. both in history and in southern politics. yes? >> over the years, i have read that haley barbour in his role as party chair was -- [inaudible] but i notice his name is not listed in the index. >> haley barbour certainly has played a huge role in modern republican politics, enormously talented guy who started off in mississippi politics and rose to great prominence, to be party chairman in 96. at there have been a lot. he was an important figure in kind, important southerner in building the modern gop. as you know, there have been important south killings, too. lee atwater. atwater is a guy who comes out of thurmond's political shop, yeah, that really has a huge influence on gop politics in the 1980s. runs george bush's campaign in 1988. so i don't talk about haley barbour simply because this is really about, it's about thurmond's and his influence. i'm certain haley barbour and strom thurmond met many times but they were, ever coming out of different states and they weren't -- [inaudible] >> well, but atwater was haley barbour's age. they were the same generation. and thurmond had an important, i mean, thurmond was around a long time. 48 years in the senate. but it's more about the fact that haley barbour is a mississippi rather than south carolina. that he wasn't in this book. any other questions? thank you all again -- yes? >> i have one question. you were criticized by a man in "the wall street journal" "wall street journal" -- >> oh, i'm so glad you brought this up. [laughter] i didn't ask them to ask this question. >> his name is lee -- >> lee edwards. >> lee edwards. >> that's right. >> who is also a biographer, as you are. >> and he's a historian. he's written several histories of the conservative movement. he himself has been a member of the conservative movement, an important person in that. >> jealousy? >> no, it's not jealousy, i can do that. but one thing about mr. edwards being asked to write that review, is that one of the things he takes issue with is i call him from his ghost writer because -- it was thurmond's staffer, former staffer of thurmond who has characterized his work on the book as being ghost writing. i talked to them and after talking to him, i e-mailed mr. edwards and i asked him if i could interview him about his relationship with traffic and what work he did in that kind of thing. and he said it was 40 years ago, yeah, as any entity would be a waste of your time and mine. so my own thing i can do, he was brave enough to read a criticism after the book when it got right. he got a number of things wrong. he quoted goldwater speaking with him and talking about the importance of equal rights is columbus after land a few days before the president kempe in 1964. what he didn't say about that meeting is it began by everyone singing dixie. there were many confederate flags. "the new york times" reported in that meeting that a considerable section in the seats was devoted to denouncing the 1964 civil rights act. and any review that says that the only key issues in thurmond's career for constitutionalism and national security, i don't think can be taken, i don't think that passes the laugh test. of what we all know about strom thurmond and his career. so i was disappointed that "the wall street journal" felt that this man, let a close relationship with thurmond had been employed by thurmond, he admits that in the review, but then talks about that he was the best person to evaluate the book for the readers. i thought that was disappointing. >> he had no knowledge of what was being done at the time, that edwards, that was going to be, they didn't tell you ahead of time? >> no. >> that he was going to be the person? >> no. >> you have any other papers like the new times or anything -- >> there were no other reviews to the "washington post," washington monthly, if you google "strom thurmond's america" you will find some. and you should google it. [laughter] >> what's next? >> i don't know. i'm not sure that i just finished this once i'm still trying to figure it out. [inaudible] >> no, no. thank you all for coming out. it's been a real pleasure. [applause] >> we'd like to hear from you. tweet us your feedback, twitter.com/booktv. >> we are here on booktv on c-span2. we want in addition to author elizabeth ames was written a book with steve forbes, "how capitalism will save us: why free people and free markets are the best answer in today's economy." elizabeth ames, first of all, tell us about yourself and your personal expense, particularly when it comes to economics. >> okay. well, i've been a financial journalist, but i've also been on both sides of the press release. so i started as a journalist and had in my own pr business, and i have also done projects, other communication projects with clients, among them riding, co-authoring books. and basically i have worked with steve forbes on a flat tax book and conversations led to the idea for this book. >> how did you meet steve forbes? >> i met him many years ago at an event that i did when i was at the university of southern california. and one thing led to another. i moved to new york, back to new york. i should i'm from new york and started working of course. so elizabeth ames, your practical express prior to working at forbes, how do you inject that into a capitalism will say the? >> basically i've learned a lot since forbes. when i was at forbes i learned a lot about markets. and again i was a journalist. i began as a journalist and i worked at business week many years ago as a journalist, but when i started to work as an entrepreneur, i learned about the fact that you really need to have economic freedom is to create jobs. and it's something i learned personally. and if you're just getting a paycheck you really don't understand how government can affect a small business and job creation. i experienced that firsthand. so that was one of the things that led me to think that this would be a useful idea for a book. >> over all, philosophically, how do you see the role of government, the role of congress the role of the president in the economy? >> basically this book raises that and answers that question. we need government but we need government to create a stable environment for businesses to function and to create jobs. when government metals too much into the economy, government and its decisions and policies are driven by politics, and markets are driven by the desire of individuals and companies to meet the need that the real world needs people. that's the difference in what government does and what markets do. so you need government to create, to protect us from fraud, from wrongdoers. there are wrongdoers and government can protect us from them, but overly meddlesome government will, it goes too far and you end up depressing enterprise and innovation and job creation. >> the 2008 financial situation and the so-called bailout, are you supportive of that government intervention? >> we raise and answer the question in that book. you could see that as sort of, you know, emergency intervention. if the government had done it and got now that would've been fine but, unfortunately, they stayed too long. i think the comparison we make is to katrina. there's in emergency aid and basically people get up and back on their feet. and what unfortunately the government has used the financial crisis as an excuse to expand itself and expand control of the economy. >> and at what point would you say the government should have stepped out and the emergency aid in? >> well, i mean they didn't allow banks that want to pay back the money. obviously, they were making it difficult to they really made him keep it and try to force it on banks that didn't want to take the bailout in the first place. so basically, you know, some people really have argued with the fact that we basically make this point that the bailout was necessary. but, you know, basically they went too far, and certainly afterwards, they use the financial crisis as an excuse to overregulate with dodd-frank, et cetera. >> we're in to bring you here at freedomfest in las vegas. you find a lot of opposition to that idea, to some of the ideas in this book? >> now i think people, no, i think people are very much, that's what this event is about. it is about free people and free markets. people understand what's in this book, and that's what, the whole idea that it's best to serve the needs of people by free enterprise, what is free enterprise? its people trying to meet needs, their own needs and the needs of others. that's what it's about and that's what these people understand. they understand entrepreneurial business that they understand the fact that you create jobs not through government through innovation. innovation has created the most jobs. think about it. government invent the automobile? no. >> elizabeth ames, want to like to write a book with steve forbes? >> it was a great learning experience. and i wanted it was almost like, and the way it was like a higher education. >> one of the themes we've been talking with authors here of course is about the moralism or a moralism of capitalism. is there a moral component in your view to capitalism? >> yes, there is. that's going to be the subject of the next book coming out at the end of the month, at the end of august. capitalism is moral because it is, again, it's about beating real-world needs of other people. a free market transaction, a reciprocal exchange but each person provides benefit to the other. george gilder who i saw you into doing talked about it as giving. he's really great talking about that. so capitalism, basically people who believe in big government, they see a free market transaction as a one-sided transaction, that this exploitation. but it's not about that. each side gets benefit. it may not be ideal, you know. but there's benefit always otherwise it would not occur because it's in a free market. if no one is forcing you to an end to this exchange, and that's what makes it, that's why there's benefit to both sides. the unilateral, you know, transaction is one that takes place between the individual and government. that's where it's -- >> what's your enthusiasm level for mid-run as a candidate? >> well, i think -- mitt romney as a candidate. >> i think he's going to be a very good president. i think he gets it, and i think he is moving forward, and they think he is saying some things that we need to hear. >> you mentioned a new book coming out. what was the title of the? >> the new book coming out is freedom manifesto, why free markets are moral and big government isn't spent that's another book written by you and steve forbes? >> yes, it is. >> we've got it over here. >> it's a little card. >> you've got your back over there. we want to show you the current book while she fishes that out. "how capitalism will save us," and here is the new book by elizabeth ames and steve forbes, freedom manifesto, and the subtitle is -- >> why free markets are moral and big government isn't. spent why is it big government moral? >> because big government makes decisions and takes action based on political agendas, based on selfish political agendas but it's about meeting its own political selfish needs, and free markets are meeting the real-world needs of people. >> well, as somebody who false economics, former financial journalist and some of who is opinions on this issue, bernie madoff, jamie dimon, in your view with those -- were those two treated fairly by the federal government? >> bernie adolf was treated fairly but i wouldn't put it in the same action. bernie madoff got what he needed to get. i think of him as a serial killer of capitalism. and you don't come you don't condemn a whole society of a criminal element, in street crime. you don't say we should have, everybody should be in jail, we've got criminals. and there's bad people in all systems, but the capitalist system, the free market system is going to channel people self-interest into the most destructive activities that benefit everyone. spent an jamie dimon being called before congress because his company lost money. >> there's risks. there's risk in markets. he did a good job in those hearings pushing back. i think what's really scary right now is that people who don't really understand markets or good don't like markets are demonizing risk. when you invest money, the whole point is that you may or may not work out. that's unfortunately what happens, and unicode if you don't have risk, you don't have reward, you don't invest, you can, all of these great companies that have grown up today where somebody's, they were at one time risky investments. and they worked out. >> and this is booktv on c-span2. were on location in las vegas at freedomfest. we've been talking with elizabeth ames was the co-author of this book, "how capitalism will save us: why free people and free markets are the best answer in today's economy," at the co-author of this upcoming book, freedom manifesto, why free markets are moral and big government isn't it and we will be talking with her co-author, steve forbes, as well about this book. >> you don't always find many newspaper editors come in 80 era, embracing investigative reporting to the point we've seen over the years is not just economics. it's the discomfort that investigative reporting causes any newsroom. because it's troll. it's about more than economics. if you're going to ruffle the feathers of someone powerful, that gives those people running into complaint to the publisher. and their stories are legion over the years about those things happen to with the internet we were fortunate, and almost all our career to work for people who are really strong and upright in the area, and just let the chips fall where they may. >> the investigative team of donald barlett and james steele will take your calls, he knows and tweets this month on in depth, the pair to begin the collaborative work in the '70s are the co-authors of eight books, their latest, "the betrayal of the american dream." watch live sunday january 6 at noon eastern on booktv on c-span2. >> hedrick smith's newest book is called "who stole the american dream." he joins us on booktv. mr. smith, who stole the american dream? >> welcome you got to get into the whole story of the narrative of our last 30 or 40 years. it happens in economic come inside economic system, middle class gets cut out a pitcher of american growth and prosperity. that's basically american corporate leaders are doing that. there's a big power shift in washington, and is led by a guy named lewis powell, the supreme court justice before he went on the court writes a secret memo to do business leaders of american says you're getting taken to the cleaners by the consumer movement combine environmental movement, by the labor movement, and you've got to get into washington and get and again. they got in the game and ever since then we've had a policy tilt since the late 1970s, a policy tilt that is hurt the middle class and has moved money uphill against gravity defying the laws of gravity up to the wealthy from the middle class. >> so it's both political and economic. it's not just a bunch of guys sitting around in a room saying let's screw the middle class. it happened historically, but if we don't understand how and why will not get to a good fix of her situation right now spent with one example of how the middle-class in your view has gotten hurt? >> take the 401(k) program. it came in a place of lifetime pension but it should hundreds of billions of dollars from the accounting of corporations onto the shoulders of the middle class. take the housing crisis. $6 trillion of the king leonard wealth in the mortgages and equity and american homes was moved during the housing boom, not the bust, the boom, $6 trillion move from the middle-class homeowners to wall street banks. those are two big enormous changes in wealth that happened during this period. >> when did you start forming the idea to write this book at your previous book was -- >> well, to be perfect on as i done a bunch of documentaries for pbs on is wal-mart good for america, can you afford to retire? ..
>> i recognize the republicans have made blocking the affordable care act its signature idea. sometimes it seems to be the one thing that unifies the party these days. but it's time for people to stop rooting for their failure. hard working families are rooting for its success. >> it's one thing to dislike a policy, but to attack it with lies and fear is quite another thing. take the shutdown king himself. texas senator ted cruz talking about health care this weekend. it seemed not even one fact came out of his mouth. >> it is the number one job killer in this country. some people coming out of school right now can't find jobs because of obama care. single moms all over this country are being forced into part-time work trying to feed their kids on 29 hours a week because of obama care. hard-working families are getting in the mail massive premium increases on their health care that they can't afford because of obama care. people all over this country, seniors, people with disabilities, are getting notifications in the mail right now that they're losing their health insurance because of obama care. >> false statement after false statement and it's contagious. today a reporter from the right wing national review actually sent out this tweet. is obama care president obama's iraq war? he's equating a law designed to give 30 million americans health care to the tragedy of the iraq war? you can fix a website. you can't get back the lost lives of an unwarranted war. and how's this for exaggeration? republican senator jim inhofe who recently had successful heart surgery said this. >> you know, you're talking to someone right now who probably wouldn't be here if we had socialized medicine in america. >> it's the scare tactics and the fear mongering we've heard from the start. death panels, it's going to kill granny, it's communism or socialism. it's time to get out of that made-up universe and get in touch with reality. joining me now is dana milbank and joan walsh. thank you for being here. >> hi, reverend. >> thank you. >> joan, the president admitted there's a problem and that there are problems with the health care website. but he also made it clear the website is not the policy that will give health care security to millions of americans. what did you make of it? >> i thought it was great, reverend al. people were saying he was going to come out and apologize which i thought was crazy. it was set up as an apology tour. and he was really defiant and proud of what the affordable care act has accomplished. it is not a website. the website has a lot of problems. none of us here would dismiss that or deny that. but it's not the website. they will work out the glitches. and it's really rich for these men who've worked so long to defund or repeal obama care to deny these 30 million americans government help with health insurance. suddenly being so concerned that these people might be having trouble reaching the website, getting their applications through. it's such hypocrisy. and you saw a president who i think has learned from these five years of obstruction and isn't having it anymore. he wants it fixed. nobody wants it fixed more. but he's not going to sit there and apologize and do what a lot of people on the right -- and you know, i saw some liberal pundits who wanted him to be more apologetic. he's not going to do that anymore. he's done. >> you know, dana, the fact is there has been messups on the website. there have been enormous problems in glitches. and the president owned up to that. but he also said let's keep in mind that the goal here was to provide health care. listen to this. >> but i just want to remind everybody, we did not wage this long and contentious battle just around a website. that's not what this was about. we waged this battle to make sure that millions of americans in the wealthiest nation on earth finally have the same chance to get the same security of affordable, quality health care as anybody else. that's what this is about. >> dana, isn't it the destination of this whole policy to deal with health care for the uninsured and though we cannot excuse or minimize glitches, we shouldn't lose sight of what we are after here. >> well, and i think that's what the president's 27 minutes in the rose garden today were about. and it was quite an extensive sales pitch for the program. now, yes, you can take the long view and say does the signups on the website matter for a program that doesn't even take effect until next year, it may not matter as a matter of health care policy. the problem is it's opened the door for the ted cruzs of the world to say i told you obama care was a train wreck. and if that website is, there's a problem there, they think it'll give legitimacy to their argument that all these other things that aren't necessarily true are also problems with obama care. so even though it's just a website glitch, it's left the president in a defensive kind of position here when it's a shame that he couldn't be rolling out his signature policy initiative with some more confidence. >> he seemed confident to me, dana. i've got to say. he seemed very confident to me. >> well, i agree with joan on that one, dana. but, you know, let me take it to another part of this discussion. jim demint in his heritage foundation which led the shutdown charge has a new report out about obama care. let's talk about the policy. it finds in the report, quote, individuals in most states will end up spending more on the exchanges. now, talking points memo found one rather glaring problem with that report from the heritage foundation. quote, this is talking memos, they didn't account for the financial help that the affordable care act gives uninsured people. in other words, they ignored the subsidies for millions of low-income families that's the central part of the law. millions of americans get help to buy insurance. i mean, that's the whole point of the law. so in all of this confusion that they're trying to cause, they're putting out outright lies, myths, and exaggerations which gets away from the point of the law which is why the law was enacted and was put through in the first place, joan. >> well, right. and ever since heritage has signed a report on immigration to a white supremacist, i don't think that their searches have credibility anymore. there was a problem with dhe report that it wasn't looking at subsidies. it was also comparing apples to oranges. it is raising the floor on our health insurance. it is requiring more from health insurance companies. it's not easy to get apples to apples comparisons. we're moving into a world where insurance companies are expected to do more for us. even if you're trying with good faith even if you were a nonprofit think tank that was really trying to explain this and study is, it's going to be hard to compare for awhile. we're going to be shaking -- this is going to be shaking out for a long time. but most people are going to get tax credits or subsidies. something like 60% of the people who come through these exchanges. other people are going to be covered by medicaid. so if republican governors will go along with that. so most people are going to be in much better shape. i'm sure there will be a few people who are paying more, but they may be paying more for a much, much better quality plan. >> you know, dana, i'll give you another example of these exaggerations. fox news recently did a segment about obama care with some people who claim the law was hurting them personally in their business. watch this. >> average americans, their families are also feeling the pain thanks to the health care overhaul train wreck. and six of them, they're here with us tonight. >> but salon, joan's website, followed up with some investigative work, the report titled inside the fox news lima sheen, i fact-checked sean hannity on obama care. and the reporter interviewed the people supposedly getting gouged by obama care. and it turned out none of them had even visited the insurance exchange. so they're jumping on anything because they never wanted the affordable care act known as obama care. >> that's right. and in that same report, this same fella who claimed he's cutting back on employees because obama care was actually misreading the law and wasn't required to do so in the first place. i think what's going on on the right now, it's sort of cynical which may surprise you just a little bit. but the idea is anything that goes bad in health care in america they feel they can make this president own. so if anybody's premiums have gone up, if anybody's lost their health care coverage, they're going to say that's because of obama care even though pretty much by definition, that couldn't be the case at this time. so what i was saying earlier is that it would be nice if the president and his administration could be making a more full throated case right now arguing for the merits. they've been hobbled by their own i.t. people inside hhs who have not allowed him to make that more assertive case. yeah, he was quite upbeat in the white house. i was there in the rose garden today. but it's just a shame that he's got this drag at the moment. he should be making a case for the policy. >> i agree with you it's a shame that he has to deal with this and someone ought to be held accountable. but as i said at the beginning of the show, i'm in chicago. i'm headed to new york tomorrow. even if it takes a route that's more out of the way than he could have had a smooth flight, i still keep in mind my destination is new york, not just a smooth ride. >> the key is in getting there. >> let's got get off the plane until we arrive at affordable health care for all americans. thank you both for your time tonight. >> thanks, reverend. >> thank you. still ahead, sore losers in the billionaire boys club. the koch brothers have been trying and failing to kill the health care law. wait until you hear their latest big money scheme. plus, dick cheney to the rescue. he left the white house with a 13 point approval rating. now he's back with some amazing words about the tea party. what could possibly go wrong? and the willie horton ad 25 years later. the ad that changed an election and american politics. how it is still effecting and infecting our politics to this very day. also, friend or foe, i want to know. reply al is ahead. discover card. how can i help you? oh, you're real? you know i'm real! at discover, we're always here to talk. good, 'cause i don't have time for machines. some companies just don't appreciate the power of conversation! you know, i like you! i like you too! at discover, we treat you like you'd treat you. get the it card and talk to a real person. stick with innovation. stick with power. stick with technology. get the flexcare platinum. new from philips sonicare. have you joined the "politicsnation" conversation on facebook yet? today the president's big speech on the affordable care act dominated the conversation. terri says obama care has truly been a blessing for me. i'm so tired of the small percentage that want to take away our health care reform. dennis says how about using that $24 billion the gop squandered in the shutdown to get this thing up and running. nice idea. we want to hear what you think. please head over to facebook and search "politicsnation" and like us to join the conversation that keeps going long after the show ends. thank you orville and wilbur... ...amelia... neil and buzz: for teaching us that you can't create the future... by clinging to the past. and with that: you're history. instead of looking behind... delta is looking beyond. 80 thousand of us investing billions... in everything from the best experiences below... to the finest comforts above. we're not simply saluting history... we're making it. the billionaire koch brothers failed in their bid to stop obama care by shutting down the government, so now they moved on to plan "b." attack the poor. "the new york times" reports charles and david koch are ramping up their fight to block states from expanding medicaid under the law. they can't win in washington, so they're trying to win out there in the state with the flood of their. the latest battle is in virginia where 400,000 people would go without coverage if medicaid wasn't expanded. groups in virginia are crashing town halls and flooding state offices with mail that even republicans are calling deceptive and intimidating. it's totally immoral. two billionaires doing everything they can to keep poor people from getting insurance. i mean, how low is that? these are the same guys who are funding those creepy uncle sam ads telling young people not to get insured. >> i see you chose to sign up for obama care. >> yeah, it's actually my first time here. >> well, here we are then. change into a gown and the doctor will see you soon. >> the koch brothers have spent millions to promote their far right agenda. they're behind right wing groups like freedom works, americans for prosperity, and generation opportunity. these organizations have funneled millions of dollars to tea party candidates and groups who share one set of goals. stop president obama. but this effort to deny health insurance to poor people in virginia may be their lowest move yet. joining me now is congressman l alan grayson. thank you for being here tonight, congressman. >> thank you. >> it is pretty unseemly for the billionaires so people kbt have health insurance. >> that the federal government would pay for entirely simply because the tallahassee republicans and governor scott won't go along with it. we pay our taxes to washington, d.c. we get this coverage in return, and they are preventing that from happening. so 1 million floridians are going to go without health insurance and a certain number of them are going to tie because of that. the koch brothers are responsible, the republicans are responsible. they all will have blood on their hands. >> but, you know, it was interesting congressman. ten republican governors have caved on the medicaid expansion. we learned governor kasich has won his choice. he koch brothers are still fighting this, but aren't more and more states seeing that expanding medicaid is the way to go? >> well, you'd have to be a fool to think otherwise. we're talking here about the poorest of the working poor. that's what this expansion covers. it's people who make the lowest and they don't have children. and they still have to work and they can't afford the coverage either way. you ask part-time why don't you have coverage, they'll say because we can't afford it. treating everybody the same and means republicans have to insinuate themselves and prevent 5 million people from getting the coverage they deserve. >> you know, koch-sponsored organizations are also hosting, listen to this they're going further with hosting events for college students on college campuses to get young people to reject the affordable care act. they host pizza parties, dance parties with deejays. they'll hand out beer koozies that read opt out. they're going all out with trying to turn young people off of something that young people really need. >> my advice to them is to drink their beer, eat their pizza and then sign up for the care. in many cases this care costs less than $100 a month. it's less than my cable bill. and they need it. if they get in a motorcycle accident, car accident like so many young people do, they'll need that coverage. and they'll be glad they did. >> this is really billionaires versus poor people. in fact, president obama recently called out billionaires like the koch brothers. watch this. >> some of the tea party's biggest donors, some of the wealthiest men in america are funding a cynical ad campaign trying to convince young people not to buy health care at all. i mean, think about it. these are billionaires several times over, you know they've got good health care. >> now, to be fair, they're not only spending their money in this area, congressman. they have reportedly owned 2 million acres of land in alberta. if the keystone pipeline is expanded, the koch brothers stand to make $200 billion in profits. isn't it what makes them to benefit them. >> the republican party's creed these days is let's take every tax break and every bailout, every permit like the keystone permit. let's take every government contract and put it up to the highest bidder. not for the public or treasury, but their own campaign contributions. and that's the way they do business. from eric cantor on down. >> congressman alan grayson, thank you. we reached out to the koch brothers on this story, but they declined to comment. thank you for your time tonight. coming up, beaten by president obama, how do republicans dig themselves out of the hole they dug? more sarah palin and ted cruz? i don't think so. but first, nice try got ya tonight. senator marco rubio is all wet, and we got him. that's next. start up like this... or like this... and hit the start button to flip back and forth. you can make the important things big, keep the small stuff small, and arrange it all around you. you can be all work with office, all play, or even both at the same time. you can do it all simpler and easier on your windows tablet, pc, or surface. that's the new windows: one experience for everything in your life. you may have heard there's a new rinse that talks about protecting, even after eating and drinking. crest pro-health has always done that. it's clinically proven to fight plaque and gingivitis. rinsing with pro-health after brushing can take your oral health to a new level. now that's the new you need. right from the beginning i could really feel it changing something for the better. i know there's been an improvement. my pearly whites, they feel really good. [ male announcer ] go pro. with the brand you can trust, crest pro-health. time for a "politicsnation" pop quiz. what do these words have in common? mess, disaster, failure, debacle. any guesses? they were all used to describe the gop's shutdown strategy. a failed strategy supported by senator marco rubio. a rising star in the republican party. and a guy talked about as a possible presidential candidate. so what does the gop star do now? he runs away from it as fast as he can. watch this sprint into action. >> i never was in favor of shutting down the government. i was never in favor of defunding the government. i was in favor of funding the government fully. >> he was never in favor of shutting down the government? so i must have just dreamt he was right next to ted cruz during that 21-hour let's shut down the government over obama care phony filibuster speech thing. maybe that green eggs and ham just gave me nightmares. and i guess that big vote, you know, the one where senator rubio voted against reopening the government, it was just a big misunderstanding. and this must have been the summer heat getting to him. >> i believe that we should not vote nor pass a continuing resolution unless that continuing resolution defunds obama care. we should not pass a continuing resolution and i will not vote for a continuing resolution unless it defunds obama care. >> translation there, i will shut down the government unless i get my way. why does marco rubio think he can rewrite history? it's like trying to tell us he doesn't like water. like saying he never made an awkward reach for a bottle of spring on national tv. senator rubio, did you think we wouldn't notice that you're watering down the facts? nice try, but this one's on us because we got you. life could be hectic. as a working mom of two young boys angie's list saves me a lot of time. after reading all the reviews i know i'm making the right choice. online or on the phone, we help you hire right the first time. with 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having your not democrats, fellow republicans so angry at you. >> how much do your colleagues just despise you right now on the floor? i hear really strong language. >> senator, good to see you. what's it like to be the most hated man in america? >> that's an average interview for senator cruz. thanks for joining me, let me ask you why do people hate you. but here's the thing to the republican extremist base, he's a rock star. this week he received an eight-minute standing ovation at an event in texas. and he's getting presidential buzz because of a trip to iowa later this week. but he's not the only one stoking the tea party base. sarah palin's out with a new op-ed blasting d.c.'s corrupt basta bastard's club and establishment republicans. this is all bad for the republicans, right? well, not everyone agrees. >> you've said in the past that the tea party is a good influence. do you still feel that way? >> i do. we've got a terrible track record about federal spending. rather see them in the party than out of the party. >> that's right, america. dick cheney, the man who left office with 13% approval rating, thinks the tea party is a-okay. keep it going, republicans, keep it going. joining me now are patricia murphy and james peterson. thank you both for coming on the show tonight. >> thanks. >> thank you. >> patricia, doesn't this eight-minute standing ovation for ted cruz show how disconnected the gop base is from the rest of the country? >> well, sure, it does. because if you look at any recent polls about who americans blame for the recent shutdown about which party they trust me at this point to run the federal government, about whether they want the federal government to be open or not, polls show that americans, democrat and republican alike blame everything that happened on the conservative base of the republican party. but if you look at that standing ovation and look at the details in that, the base of the republican party feel great about what just happened. and they feel particularly good about ted cruz. while this has hurt republicans generally and not necessarily conservative republicans, but just pragmatic republicans, this has only helped ted cruz. i think his fund raising and when we see the numbers, will be humongous. i think when he goes to iowa he will be hailed as a hero. and i think this has only been to the better for ted cruz. but democrarepublicans i've spo are worried about the future of their party. >> what's unsettling for most is that the sarah palins and the ted cruzs and the tea party seems to be driving the whole gop party. i mean, you could have a functional car, but if you have someone at the wheel that can't drive, you're going over the cliff. >> that's right, rev. and it looks as if they will continue to drive for the foreseeable future. and the irony in that is texas happens to be one of those states that extracts more, they take more from the federal government than they actually give in taxes. so they're supporting this movement that's not really conscientious about the ways in which federal funding and taxation works even in their own state. and it's kind of that level of ignorance that drives some of the sort of excitement around political support for tea party candidates. it's not about reality, it's not about the facts. you know, sometimes it's just about their ideology. and their positions. and i think part of what we're seeing, though, and it's interesting to see how this develops. some people have referred to them as moderate republicans, but they've lashed out a little bit at the heritage foundation and their former senator jim demint. they're lashing out privately at senator ted cruz. which means moderate republicans believe that the long game here that ted cruz is trying to play ultimately has too much collateral damage within the republican party for them to stomach at this point. >> and patricia, the results are voters are realizing the gop is not mainstream. 56% say the gop is too extreme while 60% say the tea spaert too extreme. and the gop civil war is hurting the republicans. and that's good news for democrats. 54% now say gop control of the house is bad for the country. and according to a new ppp poll, democrats have the opportunity to pick up seats in 49 out of 61 house races. >> well, i think if the election were tomorrow, those numbers would be absolutely true. i think there's a lot that's going to happen between now and the election. that's why democrats are more than happy for ted cruz to run out way aid head of the gop and keep talking. he distracts quite a bit from what's going on. when the conversation's about ted cruz, democrats could not be happier. but i do think in states like georgia, states like louisiana, kentucky, where there are strong even business friendly democrats running for the senate in what would otherwise be very republican friendly states, i think the last month have been bad for those candidates who are running. but i think as long as the conversation is about ted cruz, democrats are thrilled because it distracts from the rollout of obama care, from a lot of things that most americans have a lot of anxiety over. as long as we're talking about ted cruz, that is going to win the day for democrats. >> but even when you see, james, republicans try to take cruz on, there's the backlash from these far right wingers. for example, an established figure like jeb bush, he criticized ted cruz for his efforts to defund health care. listen to this. >> have a little bit of self-restraint. it might actually be a politically better approach to see the massive dysfunction, but we don't even hear about that because we've stepped on that message. and i think republicans need to just take a step back and allow, show a little self-restraint and let this happen more organically. >> but almost immediately, glenn beck took offense at jeb bush's attacks on ted cruz. listen to this. >> if you guys would not have been shooting at ted cruz, you could have been showing the world how bad it was. and if i just may point out that maybe it's time to stop listening to the bushs. are we really going to go down the jeb bush road now? is that where we're going to we went down the george h.w. road and now the jeb bush road? >> isn't this the problem, that the rush limbaughs and the glenn becks, they attack any voices in the party that advises restraint. >> it is part of the problem. you know, they have this authenticity litmus test. they love to refer to these republicans as rhinos. republicans in name only. sadly, there's not really any place in the republican party right now for jeb bush. you know, a pro-immigration, almost moderate bush brand name republican doesn't have much place. the tea party is at times anti-bush, and certainly when you look at this pivot the president has made towards immigration, it poses an incredible challenge for the republican party. because the far right doesn't seem to want to come to the table and have this negotiation. but the moderate and more pragmatic republicans understand the future of the party in some way rests with this republican caucus' capacity to show they can support immigration reform. the president's in a win/win situation right now for that. he's going to push for comprehensive immigration reform. his tea partiers will resist that. and the american people will wonder why it is that the republican party once again is constricting the tent, closing their tent instead of expanding the base. >> you know, patricia, james, i'll end how i started. dick cheney who left the white house with 13% approval rating endorses the tea party. well, in the spirit of halloween, they'll have to decide if it's a trick or a treat. patricia murphy and james peterson, thank you for your time this evening. >> thanks, rev. >> thank you. still ahead, the willie horton ad 25 years later. the political ad that changed american history. and not for the better. how the ugly spread of that ad is alive and well on the right in the age of obama. plus, why dick cheney wrote his own resignation letter way back in 2001. what was that about? stay with us. 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>> i absolutely remember it, and i was a -- let's see. i was a junior in college. i actually can't believe i admitted that on air, but i do remember. and it was pretty striking to think that that was being played across the country. it was especially striking in the south. the south at that point was solidly republican, but there were definitely pockets of democrats still down there. and that ad alone changed the course of that race. it absolutely changed the course. it made white americans, especially white southerners, raise an eyebrow and think we can't have a man from massachusetts releasing, quote, black criminals all across the country and letting them rape our white women and children. that was the point of that ad. that's exactly what that was. now, i would like to take that and sort of put it here today and think of it from this perspective. remember if a black democratic candidate with a white william horton against a white candidate. imagine the outcry you'd hear. racism. it's tough when the shoe is on the other foot, isn't it. >> and we're seeing subtleties now. but joe madison, new yorker reports the willie horton ad creator of that ad, he tricked tv stations into approving the ad by creating two versions of it. quote from the article, the first which he submitted for review lacked the mug shot. once the ad had been approved, he replaced it with a version containing a photo of horton. doesn't this prove that he knew how toxic this was? >> absolutely. because as you know, a photograph says a thousand words. i mean, you are 100% correct. and what jimmy just described when he gave the scenario about the white democrat, black democrat is what is called transference. and this is what we see now. you see it with the tea party. you see it in cable news shows and that's where i will call you what i am before you call me that. it's called transference. it's an old debate technique. and the difference today, of course, is that now we have a few things. one, big money financing these ads or similar ads, two, you've got this thing called the internet or social media. so anyone can put this together, but finally, you have now the southern strategy that is full blown and full grown. >> now, willie -- jimmy, i'm sorry. jimmy, when you deal with the willie horton ad, that was in my mind willie. when you deal with the ad, lee atwater, he gloated about the willie horton connection saying maybe michael dukakis will put this willie horton on the ticket. now, let's remember, it was atwater who made no secret of how effective he thought it was to use coded racism to win votes. just listen to him in this audio clip from 1991. >> you start out in 1954 by saying [ bleep ]. by 1968 you can't say [ bleep ], that hurts you, backfires. so you say things like bussing, states rights and all that stuff. all this stuff are totally economic things. and blacks get hurt worse than whites. >> so this is an intentional political strategy. >> it'd be one thing if that was 1981. it would be one thing if none of these ads, if that was just that one time it happened. but that's not the case. remember what jesse helms did? remember what they did to our own herald ford jr. when we put the white woman saying call me, herald. that was nothing more than a way to strike fear in white men and women to say my gosh, he's going to take our white women. they've done it to numerous candidates. they did it to barack obama. the food stamp president. how much more explicit can you get? >> and that's the real point, joe. is that this started back in the '80s and has become more subtle. but in some ways today with the president and others that are still trying to deal with this. >> oh, yeah, now. look, we have photographs that show the first family as primates and people try to say that's not racist. witch doctor, that, again -- we forget about these things five, six years ago. but let me also point out, good people don't say anything. they keep quiet. 50 years ago in july, we had a young catholic president who did not kiss the pope's ring, which is customary, because he was afraid of the backlash he would get as a catholic. so all of this expands, whether it's women, catholics, we forget, italians, irish. we're all treated just like black people. and tifinally, remember that what's his name, he actually apologized on his death bed. >> lee atwater. >> lee atwater, on his death bed because he knew what he had done and apologized to ron brown, the first chairman of the democratic party on his death bed. >> i'm going to have to leave it there. joe madison and jimmy williams, thank you both for your time tonight. we'll be right back. tonight, how can we fight to end the violence in our cities? 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[ female announcer ] switch today and get two safe driving bonus checks a year for driving safely. only from allstate. call an allstate agent and get a quote now. just another way allstate is changing car insurance for good. finally tonight, i want to talk about reducing the violence in our cities. i'm here in chicago where the violence has taken a horrific toll on the community. just this past weekend at least seven people were wounded in shootings. and so far this year, 350 people have been murdered. but people here in this great city are fighting hard to turn it around and are getting results. homicides are actually down 18% from last year. it's a start. but we have a long way to go. and the people here need help. that's why we've rented an apartment in the chicago's west side and plan to stay out here once a week for the next couple of months. people that will join me at some point include martin luther king iii who was inspired by the examples set by his father dr. martin luther king jr. who moved into a chicago apartment himself 47 years ago. my new neighbors were gracious and welcoming. and i look forward to working with them on national problems, because as chicago turns it around, it can be a model for every city and village in this country. we need to know about the people in the trenches that are working every day mentoring young people, talking to them. we need to know about poverty and how that becomes something that creates a climate of desperation. and how we must challenge young people to rise above those that have no expectations for them. i spent this weekend talking with those in the trenches that are willing to fight and that are getting results. and i want to highlight them and put a national limelight on it. i talk a lot about renewing our cities and the power of activism in my new book
political mayhem. he'll go down in history as the mrs. o'leary's cow of the 2012 disaster. the one guilty of kicking over the ladder that caused all the damage that single footedly turned the grand old party into the burn down the house party, leveling it down to the lowest level of public approval in its history. just got that figure today. ed rendell is the former governor of pennsylvania and nbc political analyst. jonathan capehart writes for the "washington post" and is a msnbc analyst as well. there is a new poll shows how lousily they are viewed. the new poll, there is little in the findings in this poll for the gop to feel good about. you think? just 32% of the public, less than a third, has a favorable view of the republican party. that's an all-time low in that poll. 53% say republicans in congress were chiefly responsible for the shutdown. governor, thank you for joining us tonight from here in philadelphia you're in a different location, thank you for letting me be here. my question, yourn, we've had a lot of hell in the country over the years. we've had watergate, vietnam, iraq war. what do you think it was that registered with the middle of most voters except for the hard 30% on the hard right, what said to people the republicans are wrong? >> well, because they were very destructive. and i think people down deep want government to work. and they saw an attempt to destroy the fabric of the government to do things that had no connection. had the republicans made the stand based on debt about raising the debt limit, that would have been more understandable to the public. but they didn't like this political blackmail, political extortion. they thought it was just systemic of the breakdown in washington. and they focus blame on the republicans. i think it was the destructive nature of what they tried to do. >> jonathan, it seems to me that's a great question. and the person of this political thuggery i call it because it really is extortion and we're going to bring down the government if you don't do things our way and we're going to kill your baby obama care unless you give us the government, basically. my question is to ted cruz. his personality, the way he speaks on television. i think it's pretty frightening to people because it has that evangelical edge of fire and brimstone, i'll bring down this temple if i have to, but i'm getting my way. your thoughts. >> yeah, well, i mean, he's able to do this for two reasons. one, he's got though moxie to go out there and throw bombs, throw grenades that get people like us talking about him. and in talking about things that his supporters and the republican party base care about and want to hear more about. but also stomping all over leaders within the party and within the conference remember when senate minority leader mitch mcconnell was announcing the deal that would reopen the government and raise the debt ceiling, at the same time ted cruz was talking to reporters about what went wrong. and the other thing about ted cruz and why i think and you've been saying this for awhile now that ted cruz is the leader of the republican party. it's because the real leaders of the party haven't seen fit to smack him down, make him understand he's a first term senator and there are ways of doing things within senate and congress, ways of governing, of legislating that he needs to learn. no one's willing to do it. people are afraid of him. until someone stands up to him of any stature, he'll keep going. >> i have a theory about this, governor. going back the last time a political party showed its face so dramatically that the public said we'd rather have what we have now rather than that, usually when you pick somebody out of power, you'll say we'll try somebody else. but in this case somebody else, the republican right wing, has said here's what we look like. it does remind me of the old sort of lou schwartz commercial about barry goldwater. my hunch is for the first time since '64, a political party out of power has showed its face and the people have pulled back. and said not that. >> there's no question you're right. the only question is will this feeling that the nation has because they've showed their true colors, will this feeling persist until a year from now when we're about 2014 elections nap is a lot of time, a year in politic politics eons of time. >> last night creuz continued t mock the party. let's watch him in action. here's cruz. >> some of our friends in the media say there are a few people in washington saying some mean things. who cares? because at the end of the day i don't work for the party bosses in washington. >> first of all, there are elected leaders of the house and senate are elected. we have a democracy. and how do you play victim when you're the one trying to bring down the u.s. government? most demagogues use righteous indignation. i'll give the list but it'll get me in trouble. they're always the same. they're all coming to beat us up, the whole world is coming to beat us up. they all play that game whether it's huey long. have you noticed the call for sympathy from his troops? your thoughts. >> his troops are folks who feel very, very aggrieved about what's happening to the country, where they think the country is going, and how the country is escaping them. >> what is their grievance? >> honestly i can't tell you what problems they have in terms of people trying to -- the president pushing to get access to health care for millions of americans who don't have it. >> oh, that's not it. come on, you're being very clinical here. you think his beef with obama is health care? you think that's really it? >> no, no, no. senator cruz's beef is not with the president solely on health care. it's a whole lot of things that when you ask folks in the far right specifics, they can't really get into specifics. they just don't like this president. and they don't like what they represent and they don't like the direction they think he's pushing the country in. and they think it's the wrong direction. and ted cruz taps into that anger. you know, that anger is wasted energy if the folks they send to congress don't do anything with it. if they continue on these misguided strategies that lead to nowhere except for filling the campaign of the demagogues. >> anyway, you're a gentleman too often sometimes, jonathan. here's what former vice president dick cheney has hitched to the right wing clown car. we know why he's doing it. he's got a daughter running as a tea partier. but he said it wasn't the tea partiers who are extremists. it's the president. here's dick cheney. >>. >> the frustration out there is very, very high. so when i see people talking about the tea party, i don't think the tea party as extremists the way some of the folks in washington say. the extremist in washington is barack obama. he's the guy that wants to fundamentally transform our health care system. he's the guy who's done enormous damage to america in the world. i believe it's the president of the united states. >> okay. governor, he had the advantage there of sticking it into a political opponent and looking out for his daughter. that's a nice position to be in, but i don't believe a word he says. he's the most hawkish type. he's a big government guy. he's establishment. he's been in leadership his whole life. now he's portraying himself as some saudi buster from wyoming with a pitch fork. i think it's to get his daughter elected to the senate. i don't want to listen to this nonsense. your thoughts. >> the problem is even when they make their arguments they lie. they say he's an extremist on health care. they want to take over government-run health care. this is anything but government-run health care. we keep the insurance companies, the basic system of health care, you keep your own doctor. if there was a government takeover, we would have done single payer. and the president rejected single payer. he rejected the public option as an alternative. so the president was conservative in his approach to health care reform. they're lying to people when they try to say this is a government takeover. it's anything but a government takeover. >> do you think that the heritage town days who came up with the idea of the individual mandate, do you think they have an operator's manual to lend the president to show how they do this. they helped with the concept. if they believed in the concept, of course we know they're political. >> right. >> governor? >> oh. >> oh, i'm sorry jonathan. >> i was going to say you hit the head on the nail, chris. this is a conservative idea. it leads to a whole bunch of other things that republicans and conservatives used to believe in, but don't believe in anymore simply because president obama either adopted them, put his arms around them, or asked him i like that idea come work with me and they refused to do it. >> what's the latest heritage foundation health care plan? i'm being sarcastic. there ain't one, is there? they don't have anything. the new usa today/princeton research poll asked what the reaction would be if most of the members of congress were replaced. half said it would change congress for the better. governor, do you believe people when it comes to next year will do what they want to do. throw the people out. i don't know how you do it in our gerrymandered districts. when you vote just to get even with the current guy. probably not. maybe the burbs will switch. where will they switch? >> that's the question. the argument we now make, the democrats, is you may like your congress, he may be moderate but as long as he's there the tea party is going to be able to extort the government because the republicans will control and they won't bring progressive bills to the floor. even if you like your congressman, you've got to vote them out of office. that's a very good argument. >> jon than, your thoughts. can moderate democrats replace moderate republicans so they can get more votes for pelosi and fewer for boehner? >> i think the governor raises a good point and a good strategy. it's just a matter of whether you can get enough democrats out there to vote out the moderates and bring in the democrats. this is going to be actually a very big test for the democratic party. it's the first -- it'll be the first election that the president is not on the ballot. and midterm elections as we know, fewer voters come out to vote. fewer democrats come out to vote. the electorate is older and whiter. but if democrats want anything to get done in congress, want the president's agenda to move forward, they're going to have to come out in the numbers they did in 2012 to send a clear message that they like the direction the country is going in. they want the president to succeed and to push forward on their agenda. and they want congress to work again. >> that is one person who can drive that out and that is barack obama. >> you got it. also the other campaigner in chief, your friend, bill clinton. he can do it too. he's the best there is. thank you ed rendell and jonathan capehart. coming up, the republican alternative universe. you don't know what color the sky is here. the shutdown was good politics and default would have been better and the whole train wreck was a huge success. wait until how you hear these people are talking. also, the haters of president obama are making up stories about affordable care act. what happened when someone checked with people who said their lives were ruined by obama care and we find out they weren't telling the whole story. the rocky rollout didn't escape jon stewart in the daily show. and let me finish with my hopes of the party this december. this is "hardball," the place for politics. for your personal economy, helping you readjust your retirement plan along the way, rethink how you're invested, and refocus as your career moves forward. wherever you are today, a fidelity i.r.a. has a wide range of investment choices to help you fine-tune your personal economy. call today, and we'll make it easy to move that old 401(k) to a fidelity i.r.a. help the gulf when we made recover and learn the gulf, bp from what happened so we could be a better, safer energy company. i can tell you - safety is at the heart of everything we do. we've added cutting-edge technology, like a new deepwater well cap and a state-of-the-art monitoring center, where experts watch over all drilling activity twenty-four-seven. and we're sharing what we've learned, so we can all produce energy more safely. our commitment has never been stronger. thanks to the shutdown we're getting september's unemployment report a couple weeks late. the economy created 148,000 jobs last month and the unemployment rate ticked down again to 7.2%. a new low. those don't reflect the numbers of the shutdown and the brinksmanship of republicans over default. we'll have to find out what that effect was in next month's report. we'll be right back. welcome back to "hardball." many conservatives are trying to rewrite the last few weeks, but there are a couple of inconvenient truths. i.e., facts, that keep getting in the way. americans disapproved of their tactics, blamed them for the mess we got in and don't want to see it happen again. yet ignoring every poll in the past week, some on the wild right argued the shutdown was, in fact, a huge success. he was ann coulter yesterday on fox. >> this is why i think the shutdown was so magnificent, run beautifully. i'm so proud of these republicans. and that is because they have branded the republican party as the anti-obama care party. they accomplished a lot. they showed -- and it was brilliant how they played it. funding 80% of the government starting with defund all the government except obama care then fund all of government but obama care. i think republicans played this beautifully but there was no point to carrying it on any longer. the lesson that needs to be learned is we need to re-elect republicans. >> some day somebody is going to do a psychological study of why that act works. she's not alone. matt kibbe tweeted this week, quote, the government shutdown and the debt ceiling crisis were brilliant republican strategy. and last week, the other person michele bachmann answered the question whether the shutdown was worth it by saying quote, absolutely. i think it's worth it. it's been worth it because what we did was we fought the right fight. the shutdown has caused the republican favorability to drop to an all-time low. eight of ten americans di disapprove of the shutdown and blame the republicans for it. joan walsh and ron reagan. both of you, take your turns. first of all, explain the phenomenon of ann coulter. my theory is she's able to say anything that comes to mind and she's brilliant at the provocation she starts because nobody can fire her. which is great for her. but this notion that somehow this has been a swell, exciting period of their lives. that this has worked out for them. it's amazing how they can ape reality. go ahead, your thoughts, joan. >> because, you know, she's playing to the most paranoid extremist fringe of the party. and she's telling them what they want to hear. that's been her act all along. i know people who like her and say she doesn't mean it. that makes it worse to me, if that's the case. i think she means it. but this is how she gets rich. >> that's an interesting question. i have a theory that the dorky guys on wall street walk down the street carrying one of her books like they have a machine gun. it makes them kind of dangerous. >> and ann coulter is on their side in attacking those awful godless liberals. we're the problem. it's really quite cynical and corrupt. and beyond ann coulter, i think it's also just this strategy of never it'll the truth, always lie, and always say that you're winning. and always convince the media and to some extent it doesn't quite work, but to some extent sometimes it carries the day that they never have to admit that they've completely bollocks everything. >> do you think she'll put o'the code that this is all nonsense. >> maybe on her death bed with lee atwater. i think a lot of people will tell the truth like he did at the very end. >> maybe. let's not say bad of the dead. anyway -- >> hey, we're all going there. i'm not wishing it on her, dear. >> slow down on the commentary on the dead and being dead. i don't want to be there. ron, what do you think of this alternative universe. what color is the sky in your world when i hear people talking like michele bachmann saying what a beautiful week we had. look at the polls. your party's back to pre-lincoln numbers. >> it's true. i suppose this was a good strategy if your aim was to have your party be about as popular as hepatitis b. i mean, that's where they are at this point. but it has been part of the mythology of the far right forever, really. they really aren't a minority. that they really are the majority of the country. and somehow if they lose elections and even though they take the house of representatives, they did some with a million fewer votes than democratic candidates. but despite all that, despite all those inconvenient facts that you allude to, somehow they are the majority of the country. somehow they really are winning. and if everything was really fair to their mind, they would win all the elections. it's nonsense, of course, that these people are magical thinkers. they believe all sorts of things that aren't true. >> what about where you give black americans 3/5 of a vote, then you do the mathematics. i haven't done it lately to see what that would mean. it might mean a right wing -- tend to be democrats. maybe only give them 3/5 of a vote. maybe that explains it. >> one of the best things that could happen is that the republican party indeed split into at least two groups. one, the tea party, then the old republican white shoe country club bankers and insurance company kind of corporate type republicans. let them do their thing. let the tea party do their thing, but in an isolated fashion. then we'll see how many americans really believe in death panels and birtherisms and all the rest of that nonsense. it may be as much as 25%. at least they'd have their own party and they'd be isolated. that would be a better thing for everybody. >> yeah. well, let me go back to this. the polls do show the republican party's in trouble because of tactics championed by ted cruz like the shutdown. cruz throws out his own idea of who's responsible for the republican death march. let's listen in the leader here. >> the single most damaging thing that has happened to republicans for 2014 is all of the senate republicans coming out attacking the house republicans, attacking those pushing the effort to defund obama care, and lining themselves up opposite the american people. >> wow. former congressman tom delay told a right wing radio show if only republicans had held out longer, they would have won this fight. instead he said they lost because president obama stood firm and they didn't. >> he they would firm and he wins. that ought to be the lesson here that people understand. if the republicans had -- who knows what would have happened. i think the republicans would have won. what i was noticing sitting out here in reality land was that it was starting to have an effect. the poll numbers for obama as well as the democrats were going down. people were starting to understand that obama and the democrats wouldn't negotiate. >> you know, it's funny. -- it's not funny. it's ludicrous. but does he expect people already forgot the day after the republicans threw in the towel the government was about to default. it wasn't like they had a lot of wiggle room. >> no. >> he says if they'd only held out. does he think -- maybe he's forgotten a week ago. how can history be so distant when it's just a week ago. if they'd gone another day, we don't know what would have happened to the world economics and where the united states would be. i think boehner at the last second got a vote out of his majority and the democratic majority. and if he hadn't done it then, i don't know what would have happened. now here the guy comes out of retirement saying all you had to do was keep it up. off the cliff. >> he's delusional. >> bubbles within bubbles within bubbles. the political bubble, the social bubble, then finally down to the fact that they're really the religious right. that bubble that they live in. but they don't see the world the way we do. they don't look at the facts the way we do. they only listen to their own friends. they only listen to their own media, tweet with their own twitter friends or whatever. and they think -- some of them do -- they think that their universe is the universe. when, of course, sadly for them it's not. >> anyway, i hope tom delay runs for congress again and come back in and you'll get a daily newspaper subscription out of it and be able to keep up. thank you joan walsh and ron reagan. up next, what happened when the daily show decided to figure out what's wrong with healthcare.gov. this is "hardball," the place for politics. 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[ voice of dennis ] ...safe driving bonus check? every six months without an accident, allstate sends a check. silence. are you in good hands? the #1 selling pain reliever, in one cold medicine. advil congestion relief. it delivers a one-two punch at pain and sinus pressure with the power of advil and a nasal decongestant in a single pill. advil congestion relief. they're saying that if you are in need of health care you have two choices. wait for the site fixed or enroll in medical school, graduate, and take care of yourself. probably faster that way. >> we've had some of the best talent join the team. we're well into a tech surge to fix the problem. >> a surge? your website is so [ bleep ] we have to use the same strategy we used to salvage the iraq war? >> time now for the sideshow. that was jimmy kimmel and jon stewart last night on the rocky rollout of healthcare.gov. but the daily show went further and sent john oliver to take a closer look at the website's glitches. unfortunately for oliver, he got trapped inside. here's what happened next. >> listen, have you tried just hitting escape? >> thank you, that was the first thing i tried. that was the first thing. >> all right. >> my best hope is that they're going to begin to fix in some way -- oh, no. jon, i've got to get out of here. >> is that what i think it is? >> how old is this software, jon? >> wow! that was unbelievable! well, the website is very busy, so i can't get you help right now. >> please. he's coming back, jon. >> no, no! >> next up, here's some new evidence that the tea party wing of the gop is alienating moderates in its own party. carlo key was a republican judge from san antonio, texas, but today announced that he'll seek re-election as a democrat. and judging by his video, it's pretty here he blames fellow texan ted cruz for taking the gop in the wrong direction. >> i believe that justice demands fairness. it requires careful and intelligence probing of evidence. and above all else, justice can only be served without prejudice towards race, color, creed, or whom we choose to love. that is why i can no longer be a member of the republican party. for too long the republican party has been at war with itself. rational republican beliefs have given way to ideological character assassinations. pr pragmatism and -- make no mistake. i have not left the republican party. it left me. >> finally, conan o'brien is a cable news viewer because last night he put together this tribute video which includes my colleagues and a catchy theme song. >> with the latest government crisis, all the pundits on cable news channels have had so much to work with, so much to talk about. but remember they don't just do a lot of talking on cable news. they also do a lot of listening. so here, ladies and gentlemen, is our tribute to those unsung heroes, the listeners on cable news. ♪ up next, the haters are so bent on destroying the affordable care act that they're now making up stories about it. when we return, someone who actually spoke with people who said obama care was ruining their lives even though the truth was very different. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. it guides you to a number that will change it guides you to a number your life: your sleep number setting. it even knows you by name. now it's easier than ever to experience deep, restful sleep with the sleep number bed's dualair technology. at the touch of a button, the sleep number bed adjusts to each person's ideal comfort and support. and you'll only find it at a sleep number store. where right now our newest innovations are available with 36-month financing. sleep number. comfort individualized. i'm milissa rehberger. the irs is delaying the start of next year's tax season by two weeks because of the government shutdown. a pilot and two hospital workers were killed when a medical helicopter crashed in tennessee. it was on its way to pick up a patient at a childrens hospital. crews in australia are using fire to stop fires from spreading. high winds and temperatures are fueling those flames. back to "hardball." ♪ welcome back to "hardball." the problems with the health care rollout have been well documented. but president obama's signature achievement has been under assault from the right wing since legislation was first drafted in 2009. even though it was passed by both houses of congress, upheld by the supreme court, and debated in the 2012 election, again the law remains a target of republicans who show they have no bigger priority than to bring down the law and the president with it. to this end, the right has manufactured myths and misinformation about the law. they include so-called victims of a law that hasn't taken effect yet. with me now is eric stern who investigated suspect -- actually horror stories told my couples on tv. let's watch the first. >> we just got our letter from our insurance carry that our policy is going to be terminated and we're going to be transitioned to an aca policy because it has to include essential health care benefits. we don't even have insurance for our daughter who has a pre-existing condition. so we're looking at probably $20,000 in premiums next year. >> eric, as paul harvey would say, let's hear the rest of this story. what's the truth there? >> well, the truth is that they are paying a lot for insurance. but they hadn't checked the exchange and in fairness the exchange was down, but, you know, the kaiser family foundation has had the exchange prices available on the internet for two or three minutes. why they didn't talk about that, i don't know. but there was ample opportunity for her to check the exchange. in fact, she would have done well. she would have paid about half of what she's paying now. >> so what's the problem? whose problem was it? fox tv's presentation of it? the person's failure to present their entire personal story? or what? >> remember, these are six people who are big fox news fans. it's how they got on the show to begin with. they are conservatives. they were asked during that segment if any of them voted for obama and all of them shook their heads. and so basically whose fault is it? sean hannity's for presenting them as evidence of an obama care problem. there is no doubt there -- >> why -- wait. they're not -- but they're not robots. why did they participate? you mean political animosity toward the president? is that what we're watching here? >> perhaps. one of the couples i talked to said they don't like this obama care. they're not going to go on the exchange because they don't like obama, they don't like obama care. they're not going anywhere near the exchange. so not exactly open minded. so basically, you know, it's just kind of a setup. it was hannity creating his own little village. >> well, i'm not sure it's all his fault. here's someone else who says they've been a victim of the affordable care act. you tell me about this case. >> we received a letter from our insurance company stating that we would no longer be able to have our existing health plan despite the president's promise that we would be able to keep that existing plan. as a business we are jumping through more hoops, more regulation, more paperwork. and we've also cut back on hiring full-time employees because of the health care cost even though we'd love to do that. >> what's the truth and untruths there, eric? >> that woman's husband -- was that mrs. cox? i think her husband, i spoke to him briefly -- right. and after she spoke, he talked about how he has to cut back on his workforce and he can't hire full-time workers. he has to keep them all at part-time because he can't afford it because of obama care. i called and said i just watched you on fox news. i have a few questions. one of the questions i asked him is how many employees do you have? he said four. obama care doesn't apply to small businesses with -- the employer mandate does not apply to small businesses with under 50 employees. so that speaks for itself. >> well, what'd he mean? he can't hire 47 more employees? is that what it means? it's ludicrous. he was willing to jump from four to 47 more which would have made it 51. i'm serious here. you're laughing, but this is serious business. it may be sarcastic to you, but these people are either misleading fox -- it looks to me like they have not told even sean their right story. why are they saying this stuff? >> it's possible they didn't tell sean the right story. or it's possible sean has never heard of the socratic method. i heard hannity talk about his upcoming segment and i decided to watch because i've been listening and hearing for a year now people like ted cruz saying obama care is destroying america. he never gives an example. so i saw this as a real opportunity to -- >> i agree with you. i like what you're doing here. here's another case you point out of people here who say the affordable care act is causing their financial pain. let's listen to this couple. >> our new policy, anything similar with rise between 50% to 72% and will have things in it like we have no choice. like we'll have to have maternity benefits. we're not planning on having any more kids. and going to have to have pediatric eye care and things like that. our kids are all away from home. >> so it's not a plan that you need. >> eric, your thoughts. what do you know from following up with that case? >> that was robby and tina robeson. nice folks. they pay $850 a month, $875 a month. they got a letter like many americans saying that their plan was being altered to become aca compliant and there might be a rate change. and their belief is that the rates will increase and that therefore, that represents something that -- an untruth that obama told when he said that americans will be able to keep their health plans. now, tina and robby said they have no interest in looking at the exchange because they are philosophically opposed to obama care. you know, a bronze plan on the exchange in their zip code costs -- it would be a significant savings to them. as would other plans. and there are plans on the exchange where they might not save that much. but there is at least the opportunity for them to go on and shop. and they didn't even want to do it. so what they were -- they were using the letter they got as evidence of sort of an obama care failure. and that's it. >> okay. thank you so much for this. i love this reporting. thank you eric stern. checking up on what other people are saying. coming up, patrick kennedy on mental health and stopping gun violence on people who shouldn't have guns because they have mental problems. we'll be right back after this. ] 1.21 gigawatts. today, that's easy. ge is revolutionizing power. supercharging turbines with advanced hardware and innovative software. using data predictively to help power entire cities. so the turbines of today... will power us all... into the future. ♪ ♪ because an empty pan is a blank canvas. ♪ [ woman #2 ] to share a moment. ♪ [ man #1 ] to remember my grandmother. 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[ coyote howls ] how about no more surprises? now you can get all the online trading tools you need without any surprise fees. ♪ it's not rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade. it's not just the person that's killed like my uncles. it's the whole family. so my father survived, but i can tell you he had post-traumatic stress. and that community came to me. he suffered tremendously. all of my cousins who grew up without a father were also victims. that's what we lose sight of. it's not just the kids killed up in newtown or in colorado. it's all their families. >> we're back. 50 years ago this month, president john f. kennedy signed a community mental health act which laid the ground work for today's mental health policies. now former rhode island congressman patrick kennedy is following in his uncle's footsteps to advance the cause president kennedy started way back in '63. the mental health issue has taken on a critical urgency in light of recent mass shootings. the parents of jared loughner told deputies he did not get a mental health evaluation even after officials admitted it. loughner killed six people at an event for gabrielle giffords who was the primary target of the attack but survived. after his arrest, two medical evaluations diagnose ed him as paranoid schizophrenic. at the university of colorado. prior to the movie theater massacre. but he was never placed in institutional care. adam lanza was dyinged with -- before aaron alexis killed 12 people in a navy yard shooting recently. he complained of insomnia and said he suffering from -- i'm honored personally to be the emcee at their first event at the presidential kennedy library up in boston. one thing that has united this country and a concern you've been involved with for some time is mental health. now even the far right who are very concerned about gun rights are saying wait a minute let's look at mental health. your thoughts about that strange connection now between the right and your position dealing with mental health finally. >> i don't think it's strange, chris, obviously they're more interested in their nra report cards than they are about whether we actually solve the problem. solving the problem is twofold. we need to address the access to guns in our society. but we also need to improve the system of care for brain illnesses. so by the way, i suffer from brain illnesses. i have mental health problems, if you will. that's filled with connotations and i want to say it because the only way we're going to change attitudes is for those of us who are in recovery to talk about the fact that we all have a brain and we always will face situations where our brain, like any other organ in our body will not work optimally, so we need a health care system, chris, that reimburses for the kinds of checkups from the neck up, just like we get checkups for your blood pressure, cholesterol, just like all the other health issues, we need a system that pays for this mental health. because what happened in all those cases you identified in the top of your introduction is that we knew they were suffering, but we did nothing about it because mental health in our country is treated differently than if those people would suffering from a heart attack or a stroke, we would have rushed to take care of them. because their health issues are in their brain, we looked at it as a mental issue, rather than a health issue. >> the guy or woman you see on the corner who's schizoid and the person who's got an addiction problem. because every family, i tell you, i don't know which one doesn't, has someone in the family with an addiction problem. but i have never heard it categorized as a mental illness problem. >> we all have a brain in common, so whether you an intellectual disability, or an addiction problem or a mental ill -- john kennedy talked about this and he didn't segregate people with intellectual disabilities from those with with serious mental illness. they both share common celts of needs. so, chris, what we need to do now that we have health care reform is articulate what is useful to someone not only with a mental illness, bipolar, schizophrenia, but also someone with an addiction, or any kind of addiction, substance abuse disorder and someone who might have an intellectual disability, we all need to be connected with community, we all need to be connected with friends and family. our veterans are the most dramatic example of what we're not doing right. so here they come home, we call their wounds invisible wounds. there's nothing invisible about their traumatic brain injury and the stress that they experience which literally changes the neurophysiology in their brain. yet our country stills calls these invisible wounds. then we don't give them a purple heart. then we tell them, because most of them are not, frankly in the va, they're in the private insurance market, and we tell them, go fight for your care. if they had been suffering from agent orange or cancer, we know how to deal with medical issues, but we don't know how to look at the brain as a medical issue and that's what we need to change. >> thank you for your passion and thank you for telling us what's going on. i'll see you tomorrow night patrick kenny. i think you've got a new ally, eric cantor, because when they had the shutdown at the nih, he started making some noise. to finally admit that the fact that the nih does some good work. when we return, let me finish with my host with some serious talks about this budget thing. i think they can get something done this december. call me an optimist, this is "hardball," the place for politics. customer's not happy, i'm not happy. sales go down, i'm not happy. merch comes back, i'm not happy. use ups. they make returns easy. unhappy customer becomes happy customer. then, repeat customer. easy returns, i'm happy. repeat customers, i'm happy. sales go up, i'm happy. i ordered another pair. i'm happy. (both) i'm happy. i'm happy. happy. happy. happy. happy. happy happy. i love logistics. as your life changes, fidelity is there for your personal economy, helping you readjust along the way, refocus as careers change and kids head off to college, and revisit your investments as retirement gets closer. wherever you are today, fidelity's guidance can help you fine-tune your personal economy. start today with a free one-on-one review of your retirement plan. i was reading last night about the day to day negotiations here in this city in 1787 that led to the adoption of the u.s. constitution. think about the struggles then over the role of the federal government. about the challenges these folks faced in forging this country of ours in the first place. they will need to fight for what they need, yield on what they can, build from both a consensus on the road ahead. if there's one thing we can do as citizens, it's to find areas in which to compromise. we don't need anymore fiscal train wrecks. as i said i'll be at the national constitution center.
disaster. the one guilty of kicking over the ladder that caused all the damage that single footedly turned the grand old party into the burn down the house party, leveling it down to the lowest level of public approval in its history. just got that figure today. ed rendell is the former governor of pennsylvania and nbc political analyst. jonathan capehart writes for the "washington post" and is a msnbc analyst as well. there is a new poll shows how lousily they are viewed. the new poll, there is little in the findings in this poll for the gop to feel good about. you think? just 32% of the public, less than a third, has a favorable view of the republican party. that's an all-time low in that poll. 53% say republicans in congress were chiefly responsible for the shutdown. governor, thank you for joining us tonight from here in philadelphia you're in a different location, thank you for letting me be here. my question, yourn, we've had a lot of hell in the country over the years. we've had watergate, vietnam, iraq war. what do you think it was that registered with the middle of most voters except for the hard 30% on the hard right, what said to people the republicans are wrong? >> well, because they were very destructive. and i think people down deep want government to work. and they saw an attempt to destroy the fabric of the government to do things that had no connection. had the republicans made the stand based on debt about raising the debt limit, that would have been more understandable to the public. but they didn't like this political blackmail, political extortion. they thought it was just systemic of the breakdown in washington. and they focus blame on the republicans. i think it was the destructive nature of what they tried to do. >> jonathan, it seems to me that's a great question. and the person of this political thuggery i call it because it really is extortion and we're going to bring down the government if you don't do things our way and we're going to kill your baby obama care unless you give us the government, basically. my question is to ted cruz. his personality, the way he speaks on television. i think it's pretty frightening to people because it has that evangelical edge of fire and brimstone, i'll bring down this temple if i have to, but i'm getting my way. your thoughts. >> yeah, well, i mean, he's able to do this for two reasons. one, he's got though moxie to go out there and throw bombs, throw grenades that get people like us talking about him. and in talking about things that his supporters and the republican party base care about and want to hear more about. but also stomping all over leaders within the party and within the conference remember when senate minority leader mitch mcconnell was announcing the deal that would reopen the government and raise the debt ceiling, at the same time ted cruz was talking to reporters about what went wrong. and the other thing about ted cruz and why i think and you've been saying this for awhile now that ted cruz is the leader of the republican party. it's because the real leaders of the party haven't seen fit to smack him down, make him understand he's a first term senator and there are ways of doing things within senate and congress, ways of governing, of legislating that he needs to learn. no one's willing to do it. people are afraid of him. until someone stands up to him of any stature, he'll keep going. >> i have a theory about this, governor. going back the last time a political party showed its face so dramatically that the public said we'd rather have what we have now rather than that, usually when you pick somebody out of power, you'll say we'll try somebody else. but in this case somebody else, the republican right wing, has said here's what we look like. it does remind me of the old sort of lou schwartz commercial about barry goldwater. my hunch is for the first time since '64, a political party out of power has showed its face and the people have pulled back. and said not that. >> there's no question you're right. the only question is will this feeling that the nation has because they've showed their true colors, will this feeling persist until a year from now when we're about 2014 elections nap is a lot of time, a year in politics eons of time. >> last night cruz continued to mock the party. let's watch him in action. here's cruz. >> some of our friends in the media say there are a few people in washington saying some mean things. who cares? because at the end of the day i don't work for the party bosses in washington. >> first of all, there are elected leaders of the house and senate are elected. we have a democracy. and how do you play victim when you're the one trying to bring down the u.s. government? most demagogues use righteous indignation. i'll give the list but it'll get me in trouble. they're always the same. they're all coming to beat us up, the whole world is coming to beat us up. they all play that game whether it's huey long. have you noticed the call for sympathy from his troops? your thoughts. >> his troops are folks who feel very, very aggrieved about what's happening to the country, where they think the country is going, and how the country is escaping them. >> what is their grievance? >> honestly i can't tell you what problems they have in terms of people trying to -- the president pushing to get access to health care for millions of americans who don't have it. >> oh, that's not it. come on, you're being very clinical here. you think his beef with obama is health care? you think that's really it? >> no, no, no. senator cruz's beef is not with the president solely on health care. it's a whole lot of things that when you ask folks in the far right specifics, they can't really get into specifics. they just don't like this president. and they don't like what they represent and they don't like the direction they think he's pushing the country in. and they think it's the wrong direction. and ted cruz taps into that anger. you know, that anger is wasted energy if the folks they send to congress don't do anything with it. if they continue on these misguided strategies that lead to nowhere except for filling the campaign of the demagogues. >> anyway, you're a gentleman too often sometimes, jonathan. here's what former vice president dick cheney has hitched to the right wing clown car. we know why he's doing it. he's got a daughter running as a tea partier. but he said it wasn't the tea partiers who are extremists. it's the president. here's dick cheney. >>. >> the frustration out there is very, very high. so when i see people talking about the tea party, i don't think the tea party as extremists the way some of the folks in washington say. the extremist in washington is barack obama. he's the guy that wants to fundamentally transform our health care system. he's the guy who's done enormous damage to america in the world. i believe it's the president of the united states. >> okay. governor, he had the advantage there of sticking it into a political opponent and looking out for his daughter. that's a nice position to be in, but i don't believe a word he says. he's the most hawkish type. he's a big government guy. he's establishment. he's been in leadership his whole life. now he's portraying himself as some saudi buster from wyoming with a pitch fork. i think it's to get his daughter elected to the senate. i don't want to listen to this nonsense. your thoughts. >> the problem is even when they make their arguments they lie. they say he's an extremist on health care. they want to take over government-run health care. this is anything but government-run health care. we keep the insurance companies, the basic system of health care, you keep your own doctor. if there was a government takeover, we would have done single payer. and the president rejected single payer. he rejected the public option as an alternative. so the president was conservative in his approach to health care reform. they're lying to people when they try to say this is a government takeover. it's anything but a government takeover. >> do you think that the heritage town days who came up with the idea of the individual mandate, do you think they have an operator's manual to lend the president to show how they do this. they helped with the concept. if they believed in the concept, of course we know they're political. >> right. >> governor? >> oh. >> oh, i'm sorry jonathan. >> i was going to say you hit the head on the nail, chris. this is a conservative idea. it leads to a whole bunch of other things that republicans and conservatives used to believe in, but don't believe in anymore simply because president obama either adopted them, put his arms around them, or asked him i like that idea come work with me and they refused to do it. >> what's the latest heritage foundation health care plan? i'm being sarcastic. there ain't one, is there? they don't have anything. the new usa today/princeton research poll asked what the reaction would be if most of the members of congress were replaced. half said it would change congress for the better. governor, do you believe people when it comes to next year will do what they want to do. throw the people out. i don't know how you do it in our gerrymandered districts. when you vote just to get even with the current guy. probably not. maybe the burbs will switch. where will they switch? >> that's the question. the argument we now make, the democrats, is you may like your congress, he may be moderate but as long as he's there the tea party is going to be able to extort the government because the republicans will control and they won't bring progressive bills to the floor. even if you like your congressman, you've got to vote them out of office. that's a very good argument. >> jon than, your thoughts. can moderate democrats replace moderate republicans so they can get more votes for pelosi and fewer for boehner? >> i think the governor raises a good point and a good strategy. it's just a matter of whether you can get enough democrats out there to vote out the moderates and bring in the democrats. this is going to be actually a very big test for the democratic party. it's the first -- it'll be the first election that the president is not on the ballot. and midterm elections as we know, fewer voters come out to vote. fewer democrats come out to vote. the electorate is older and whiter. but if democrats want anything to get done in congress, want the president's agenda to move forward, they're going to have to come out in the numbers they did in 2012 to send a clear message that they like the direction the country is going in. they want the president to succeed and to push forward on their agenda. and they want congress to work again. >> that is one person who can drive that out and that is barack obama. >> you got it. also the other campaigner in chief, your friend, bill clinton. he can do it too. he's the best there is. thank you ed rendell and jonathan capehart. coming up, the republican alternative universe. you don't know what color the sky is here. the shutdown was good politics and default would have been better and the whole train wreck was a huge success. wait until how you hear these people are talking. also, the haters of president obama are making up stories about affordable care act. what happened when someone checked with people who said their lives were ruined by obama care and we find out they weren't telling the whole story. the rocky rollout didn't escape jon stewart in the daily show. and let me finish with my hopes of the party this december. this is "hardball," the place for politics. thanks to the shutdown we're getting september's unemployment report a couple weeks late. the economy created 148,000 jobs last month and the unemployment rate ticked down again to 7.2%. a new low. those don't reflect the numbers of the shutdown and the brinksmanship of republicans over default. we'll have to find out what that effect was in next month's report. r matching creme right where you need it. then rinse. in ten minutes zap those grays and get on with your day. nice 'n easy root touch-up. in ten minutes zap those grays and get on with your day. you know, from our 4,000 television commercials. yep, there i am with flo. hoo-hoo! watch it! 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[splash!] we'll be right back. welcome back to "hardball." many conservatives are trying to rewrite the last few weeks, but there are a couple of inconvenient truths. i.e., facts, that keep getting in the way. americans disapproved of their tactics, blamed them for the mess we got in and don'tant to see it happen again. yet ignoring every poll in the past week, some on the wild right argued the shutdown was, in fact, a huge success. he was ann coulter yesterday on fox. >> this is why i think the shutdown was so magnificent, run beautifully. i'm so proud of these republicans. and that is because they have branded the republican party as the anti-obama care party. they accomplished a lot. they showed -- and it was brilliant how they played it. funding 80% of the government starting with defund all the government except obama care then fund all of government but obama care. i think republicans played this beautifully but there was no point to carrying it on any longer. the lesson that needs to be learned is we need to re-elect republicans. >> some day somebody is going to do a psychological study of why that act works. she's not alone. matt kibbe tweeted this week, quote, the government shutdown and the debt ceiling crisis were brilliant republican strategy. and last week, the other person michele bachmann answered the question whether the shutdown was worth it by saying quote, absolutely. i think it's worth it. it's been worth it because what we did was we fought the right fight. the shutdown has caused the republican favorability to drop to an all-time low. eight of ten americans disapprove of the shutdown and blame the republicans for it. joan walsh and ron reagan. both of you, take your turns. first of all, explain the phenomenon of ann coulter. my theory is she's able to say anything that comes to mind and she's brilliant at the provocation she starts because nobody can fire her. which is great for her. but this notion that somehow this has been a swell, exciting period of their lives. that this has worked out for them. it's amazing how they can ape reality. go ahead, your thoughts, joan. >> because, you know, she's playing to the most paranoid extremist fringe of the party. and she's telling them what they want to hear. that's been her act all along. i know people who like her and say she doesn't mean it. that makes it worse to me, if that's the case. i think she means it. but this is how she gets rich. >> that's an interesting question. i have a theory that the dorky guys on wall street walk down the street carrying one of her books like they have a machine gun. it makes them kind of dangerous. >> and ann coulter is on their side in attacking those awful godless liberals. we're the problem. it's really quite cynical and corrupt. and beyond ann coulter, i think it's also just this strategy of never it'll the truth, always lie, and always say that you're winning. and always convince the media and to some extent it doesn't quite work, but to some extent sometimes it carries the day that they never have to admit that they've completely bollocks everything. >> do you think she'll put o'the code that this is all nonsense. >> maybe on her death bed with lee atwater. i think a lot of people will tell the truth like he did at the very end. >> maybe. let's not say bad of the dead. anyway -- >> hey, we're all going there. i'm not wishing it on her, dear. >> slow down on the commentary on the dead and being dead. i don't want to be there. ron, what do you think of this alternative universe. what color is the sky in your world when i hear people talking like michele bachmann saying what a beautiful week we had. look at the polls. your party's back to pre-lincoln numbers. >> it's true. i suppose this was a good strategy if your aim was to have your party be about as popular as hepatitis b. i mean, that's where they are at this point. but it has been part of the mythology of the far right forever, really. they really aren't a minority. that they really are the majority of the country. and somehow if they lose elections and even though they take the house of representatives, they did some with a million fewer votes than democratic candidates. but despite all that, despite all those inconvenient facts that you allude to, somehow they are the majority of the country. somehow they really are winning. and if everything was really fair to their mind, they would win all the elections. it's nonsense, of course, that these people are magical thinkers. they believe all sorts of things that aren't true. >> what about where you give black americans 3/5 of a vote, then you do the mathematics. i haven't done it lately to see what that would mean. it might mean a right wing -- tend to be democrats. maybe only give them 3/5 of a vote. maybe that explains it. >> one of the best things that could happen is that the republican party indeed split into at least two groups. one, the tea party, then the old republican white shoe country club bankers and insurance company kind of corporate type republicans. let them do their thing. let the tea party do their thing, but in an isolated fashion. then we'll see how many americans really believe in death panels and birtherisms and all the rest of that nonsense. it may be as much as 25%. at least they'd have their own party and they'd be isolated. that would be a better thing for everybody. >> yeah. well, let me go back to this. the polls do show the republican party's in trouble because of tactics championed by ted cruz like the shutdown. cruz throws out his own idea of who's responsible for the republican death march. let's listen in the leader here. >> the single most damaging thing that has happened to republicans for 2014 is all of the senate republicans coming out attacking the house republicans, attacking those pushing the effort to defund obama care, and lining themselves up opposite the american people. >> wow. former congressman tom delay told a right wing radio show if only republicans had held out longer, they would have won this fight. instead he said they lost because president obama stood firm and they didn't. >> he they would firm and he wins. that ought to be the lesson here that people understand. if the republicans had -- who knows what would have happened. i think the republicans would have won. what i was noticing sitting out here in reality land was that it was starting to have an effect. the poll numbers for obama as well as the democrats were going down. people were starting to understand that obama and the democrats wouldn't negotiate. >> you know, it's funny. -- it's not funny. it's ludicrous. but does he expect people already forgot the day after the republicans threw in the towel the government was about to default. it wasn't like they had a lot of wiggle room. >> no. >> he says if they'd only held out. does he think -- maybe he's forgotten a week ago. how can history be so distant when it's just a week ago. if they'd gone another day, we don't know what would have happened to the world economics and where the united states would be. i think boehner at the last second got a vote out of his majority and the democratic majority. and if he hadn't done it then, i don't know what would have happened. now here the guy comes out of retirement saying all you had to do was keep it up. off the cliff. >> he's delusional. >> bubbles within bubbles within bubbles. the political bubble, the social bubble, then finally down to the fact that they're really the religious right. that bubble that they live in. but they don't see the world the way we do. they don't look at the facts the way we do. they only listen to their own friends. they only listen to their own media, tweet with their own twitter friends or whatever. and they think -- some of them do -- they think that their universe is the universe. when, of course, sadly for them it's not. >> anyway, i hope tom delay runs for congress again and come back in and you'll get a daily newspaper subscription out of it and be able to keep up. thank you joan walsh and ron reagan. up next, what happened when the daily show decided to figure out what's wrong with healthcare.gov. this is "hardball," the place for politics. they're saying that if you are in need of health care you have two choices. wait for the site fixed or enroll in medical school, graduate, and take care of yourself. probably faster that way. >> we've had some of the best talent join the team. we're well into a tech surge to fix the problem. >> a surge? your website is so [ bleep ] we have to use the same strategy we used to salvage the iraq war? >> time now for the sideshow. that was jimmy kimmel and jon stewart last night on the rocky rollout of healthcare.gov. but the daily show went further and sent john oliver to take a closer look at the website's glitches. unfortunately for oliver, he got trapped inside. here's what happened next. >> listen, have you tried just hitting escape? >> thank you, that was the first thing i tried. that was the first thing. >> all right. >> my best hope is that they're going to begin to fix in some way -- oh, no. jon, i've got to get out of here. >> is that what i think it is? >> how old is this software, jon? >> wow! that was unbelievable! well, the website is very busy, so i can't get you help right now. >> please. he's coming back, jon. >> no, no! >> next up, here's some new evidence that the tea party wing of the gop is alienating moderates in its own party. carlo key was a republican judge from san antonio, texas, but today announced that he'll seek re-election as a democrat. and judging by his video, it's pretty here he blames fellow texan ted cruz for taking the gop in the wrong direction. >> i believe that justice demands fairness. it requires careful and intelligence probing of evidence. and above all else, justice can only be served without prejudice towards race, color, creed, or whom we choose to love. that is why i can no longer be a member of the republican party. for too long the republican party has been at war with itself. rational republican beliefs have given way to ideological character assassinations. pragmatism and -- make no mistake. i have not left the republican party. it left me. >> finally, conan o'brien is a cable news viewer because last night he put together this tribute video which includes my colleagues and a catchy theme song. >> with the latest government crisis, all the pundits on cable news channels have had so much to work with, so much to talk about. but remember they don't just do a lot of talking on cable news. they also do a lot of listening. so here, ladies and gentlemen, is our tribute to those unsung heroes, the listeners on cable news. ♪ ♪ ♪ up next, the haters are so bent on destroying the affordable care act that they're now making up stories about it. when we return, someone who actually spoke with people who said obama care was ruining their lives even though the truth was very different. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. i'm milissa rehberger. the irs is delaying the start of next year's tax season by two welcome back to "hardball." the problems with the health care rollout have been well documented. but president obama's signature achievement has been under assault from the right wing since legislation was first drafted in 2009. even though it was passed by both houses of congress, upheld by the supreme court, and debated in the 2012 election, again the law remains a target of republicans who show they have no bigger priority than to bring down the law and the president with it. to this end, the right has manufactured myths and misinformation about the law. they include so-called victims of a law that hasn't taken effect yet. with me now is eric stern who investigated suspect -- actually horror stories told my couples on tv. let's watch the first. >> we just got our letter from our insurance carry that our policy is going to be terminated and we're going to be transitioned to an aca policy because it has to include essential health care benefits. we don't even have insurance for our daughter who has a pre-existing condition. so we're looking at probably $20,000 in premiums next year. >> eric, as paul harvey would say, let's hear the rest of this story. what's the truth there? >> well, the truth is that they are paying a lot for insurance. but they hadn't checked the exchange and in fairness the exchange was down, but, you know, the kaiser family foundation has had the exchange prices available on the internet for two or three minutes. why they didn't talk about that, i don't know. but there was ample opportunity for her to check the exchange. in fact, she would have done well. she would have paid about half of what she's paying now. >> so what's the problem? whose problem was it? fox tv's presentation of it? the person's failure to present their entire personal story? or what? >> remember, these are six people who are big fox news fans. it's how they got on the show to begin with. they are conservatives. they were asked during that segment if any of them voted for obama and all of them shook their heads. and so basically whose fault is it? sean hannity's for presenting them as evidence of an obama care problem. there is no doubt there -- >> why -- wait. they're not -- but they're not robots. why did they participate? you mean political animosity toward the president? is that what we're watching here? >> perhaps. one of the couples i talked to said they don't like this obama care. they're not going to go on the exchange because they don't like obama, they don't like obama care. they're not going anywhere near the exchange. so not exactly open minded. so basically, you know, it's just kind of a setup. it was hannity creating his own little village. >> well, i'm not sure it's all his fault. here's someone else who says they've been a victim of the affordable care act. you tell me about this case. >> we received a letter from our insurance company stating that we would no longer be able to have our existing health plan despite the president's promise that we would be able to keep that existing plan. as a business we are jumping through more hoops, more regulation, more paperwork. and we've also cut back on hiring full-time employees because of the health care cost even though we'd love to do that. >> what's the truth and untruths there, eric? >> that woman's husband -- was that mrs. cox? i think her husband, i spoke to him briefly -- right. and after she spoke, he talked about how he has to cut back on his workforce and he can't hire full-time workers. he has to keep them all at part-time because he can't afford it because of obama care. i called and said i just watched you on fox news. i have a few questions. one of the questions i asked him is how many employees do you have? he said four. obama care doesn't apply to small businesses with -- the employer mandate does not apply to small businesses with under 50 employees. so that speaks for itself. >> well, what'd he mean? he can't hire 47 more employees? is that what it means? it's ludicrous. he was willing to jump from four to 47 more which would have made it 51. i'm serious here. you're laughing, but this is serious business. it may be sarcastic to you, but these people are either misleading fox -- it looks to me like they have not told even sean their right story. why are they saying this stuff? >> it's possible they didn't tell sean the right story. or it's possible sean has never heard of the socratic method. i heard hannity talk about his upcoming segment and i decided to watch because i've been listening and hearing for a year now people like ted cruz saying obama care is destroying america. he never gives an example. so i saw this as a real opportunity to -- >> i agree with you. i like what you're doing here. here's another case you point out of people here who say the affordable care act is causing their financial pain. let's listen to this couple. >> our new policy, anything similar with rise between 50% to 72% and will have things in it like we have no choice. like we'll have to have maternity benefits. we're not planning on having any more kids. and going to have to have pediatric eye care and things like that. our kids are all away from home. >> so it's not a plan that you need. >> eric, your thoughts. what do you know from following up with that case? >> that was robby and tina robeson. nice folks. they pay $850 a month, $875 a month. they got a letter like many americans saying that their plan was being altered to become aca compliant and there might be a rate change. and their belief is that the rates will increase and that therefore, that represents something that -- an untruth that obama told when he said that americans will be able to keep their health plans. now, tina and robby said they have no interest in looking at the exchange because they are philosophically opposed to obama care. you know, a bronze plan on the exchange in their zip code costs -- it would be a significant savings to them. as would other plans. and there are plans on the exchange where they might not save that much. but there is at least the opportunity for them to go on and shop. and they didn't even want to do it. so what they were -- they were using the letter they got as evidence of sort of an obama care failure. and that's it. >> okay. thank you so much for this. i love this reporting. thank you eric stern. checking up on what other people are saying. coming up, patrick kennedy on mental health and stopping gun violence on people who shouldn't have guns because they have mental problems. we'll be right back after this. two weeks to go in the marquee matchup of this year's elections. the race for governor of virginia. this weekend hillary clinton campaigned alongside terry mcauliffe. it was her first campaign event in nearly five years. and bill clinton will spend three days on the stump for his old friend starting this sunday. meanwhile, michael bloomberg is pouring more than a million dollars into the race on mcauliffe's behalf. the richmond times dispatch that usually endorses republicans chose not to endorse anyone for governor rather than back ken cuccinelli. bad news for the republicans. we'll be right back. igle for medice? that's a good thing, but it doesn't cover everything. only about 80% of your part b medical expenses. the rest is up to you. so consider an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. like all standardized medicare supplement insurance plans, they pick up some of what medicare doesn't pay and could save you in out-of-pocket medical costs. call today to request a free decision guide to help you better understand what medicare is all about and which aarp medicare supplement plan works best for you. with these types of plans, you'll be able to visit any doctor or 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will answer some of your questions and help you find the aarp medicare supplement plan that's right for you. it's not just the person that's killed like my uncles. it's the whole family. so my father survived, but i can tell you he had post-traumatic stress. and that community came to me. he suffered tremendously. all of my cousins who grew up without a father were also victims. that's what we lose sight of. it's not just the kids killed up in newtown or in colorado. it's all their families. >> we're back. 50 years ago this month, president john f. kennedy signed a community mental health act which laid the ground work for today's mental health policies. now former rhode island congressman patrick kennedy is following in his uncle's footsteps to advance the cause president kennedy started way back in '63. the mental health issue has taken on a critical urgency in light of recent mass shootings. the parents of jared loughner told deputies he did not get a mental health evaluation even after officials admitted it. loughner killed six people at an event for gabrielle giffords who was the primary target of the attack but survived. after his arrest, two medical evaluations diagnosed him as paranoid schizophrenic. at the university of colorado. prior to the movie theater massacre. but he was never placed in institutional care. adam lanza was to formed of mental illness on his part. adam lanza was dyinged with -- before aaron alexis killed 12 people in a navy yard shooting recently. he complained of insomnia and said he suffering from -- i'm honored personally to be the emcee at their first event at the presidential kennedy library up in boston. one thing that has united this country and a concern you've been involved with for some time is mental health. now even the far right who are very concerned about gun rights are saying wait a minute let's look at mental health. your thoughts about that strange connection now between the right and your position dealing with mental health finally. >> i don't think it's strange, chris, obviously they're more interested in their nra report cards than they are about whether we actually solve the problem. solving the problem is twofold. we need to address the access to guns in our society. but we also need to improve the system of care for brain illnesses. so by the way, i suffer from brain illnesses. i have mental health problems, if you will. that's filled with connotations and i want to say it because the only way we're going to change attitudes is for those of us who are in recovery to talk about the fact that we all have a brain and we always will face situations where our brain, like any other organ in our body will not work optimally, so we need a health care system, chris, that reimburses for the kinds of checkups from the neck up, just like we get checkups for your blood pressure, cholesterol, just like all the other health issues, we need a system that pays for this mental health. because what happened in all those cases you identified in the top of your introduction is that we knew they were suffering, but we did nothing about it because mental health in our country is treated differently than if those people would suffering from a heart attack or a stroke, we would have rushed to take care of them. because their health issues are in their brain, we looked at it as a mental issue, rather than a health issue. >> the guy or woman you see on the corner who's schizoid and the person who's got an addiction problem. because every family, i tell you, i don't know which one doesn't, has someone in the family with an addiction problem. but i have never heard it categorized as a mental illness problem. >> we all have a brain in common, so whether you an intellectual disability, or an addiction problem or a mental ill -- john kennedy talked about this and he didn't segregate people with intellectual disabilities from those with with serious mental illness. they both share common celts of needs. so, chris, what we need to do now that we have health care reform is articulate what is useful to someone not only with a mental illness, bipolar, schizophrenia, but also someone with an addiction, or any kind of addiction, substance abuse disorder and someone who might have an intellectual disability, we all need to be connected with community, we all need to be connected with friends and family. our veterans are the most dramatic example of what we're not doing right. so here they come home, we call their wounds invisible wounds. there's nothing invisible about their traumatic brain injury and the stress that they experience which literally changes the neurophysiology in their brain. yet our country stills calls these invisible wounds. then we don't give them a purple heart. then we tell them, because most of them are not, frankly in the va, they're in the private insurance market, and we tell them, go fight for your care. if they had been suffering from agent orange or cancer, we know how to deal with medical issues, but we don't know how to look at the brain as a medical issue and that's what we need to change. >> thank you for your passion and thank you for telling us what's going on. i'll see you tomorrow night patrick kenny. i think you've got a new ally, eric cantor, because when they had the shutdown at the nih, he started making some noise. to finally admit that the fact that the nih does some good work. when we return, let me finish with my host with some serious talks about this budget thing. i think they can get something done this december. call me an optimist, this is "hardball," the place for politics. need a spoon, dear? not anymore. what? my silverware isn't good enough for you? have -- have you seen it? yes, i have seen it, and it looks -- you gotta look better. ladies, breathe. cascade kitchen counselor here. it's not your silverware. it's likely your detergent. see, over time, cascade platinum's triple cleaning formula delivers brilliant shine 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[ counselor ] cascade platinum is cascade's best. i was reading last night about the day to day negotiations here in this city in 1787 that led to the adoption of the u.s. constitution. think about the struggles then over the role of the federal government. about the challenges these folks faced in forging this country of ours in the first place. they will need to fight for what they need, yield on what they can, build from both a consensus on the road ahead. if there's one thing we can do as citizens, it's to find areas in which to compromise. we don't need anymore fiscal train wrecks. as i said i'll be at the national constitution center. it's my love letter if you will to american politics and what free people, especially true believers in conviction achieve. all in with chris hayes starts right now.
i think it's a great asset for democrats. they have tried 45 times to do the same thing, and they lost every time to defund obama care. now we have a new deal. what we're going to do is hold a bunch of hearings and try to embarrass the president this way. all their yelling and screaming about obama care, what is their alternative in they don't have one. >> that came after nancy pelosi made it clear she believes it was the bank bailout affectionately known as t.a.r.p. and not obama care that torpedoed them in 2010. >> i don't buy into the idea we lost the election because of the health care. one of the most damaging votes our members had to take was the t.a.r.p. that was really the vote that sort of soured people. they didn't like that vote at all. >> still even as some red state democrats go to survival mode not all are climbing aboard the freakout train. one said, if jeanne shaheen thinks it helps her in new hampshire, then you know what? go do it. pam stein, political reporter at national journey alex wall, msnbc contributor jimy williams and host of msnbc's disrupt karen finney. i'm going to you first since i did the disrupt. >> and i'm the only onwoman. >> they aren't exactly an army of strength. when any glitch or a media frenzy that makes it uncomfortable, they run. >> i disagree with hyperbole. these are democrats vulnerable in tough races, tough states frch from a receipt or caliper suspective it's good for them. they support affordable care act overall. not like they are defecting and in the ted cruz camp and calling for repeal and replace. i think there's less hysteria around this. i think we like to find where the fractures are but not going to make a big deal. >> there is 10 democrats who sent this letter to kathleen sebelius. given the existing problems with healthcare.gov and other state run markets that depend on the website we urge you to consider extending open enrollment i don't know mar 31. individuals should not be penalized for lack of coverage if they are unable to purchase health insurance due to technical problems. there's seven up for re-election. there's some surprises sheehan, pryor in arkansas, red states, hagan, udall in colorado, tom udall in new mexico. dianne feinstein, a surprise because she's in california where exchanges are working. bennett in colorado, heinrich in new mexico. those three not up for re-election. what is behind democrats to do a full embrace and do what they did with shutdown and hang together. >> all politics are local. you're finding senators, most in cycle. they are looking at their state and saying i don't want that extra headache. why should they -- as a democrat and by the way, swo someone who signed up for obama care, i don't have a problem moving this. if that's what it takes, fine. lets them get re-elected, fine. shouldn't mary landrieu represent the state of louisiana the best way she can. let her do that democratic congress is not monolithic. that's just not how they roll. >> part of big ten politics. >> first of all, good luck with the obama death panels. it was nice knowing you. >> enjoying the segment. >> secondly, i think there's two points to make here. one is jimmy's point, there are policy issues they want to consider. if you are going to have problems with enrollment, which happened. if that's going to carry into march, you shouldn't penalize someone who can't have access to insurance because they can have access to insurance. that's one. two, this is not unique. a lot of these same democrats wanted to delay individual mandate or talk about delaying enrollment during the government shutdown. however, they were never going to do it with the threat of shutdown upon them, certainly wasn't with the debt limit debate. it's not like this is bubbling to the surface. there was concern and anxiety before, we're just in a different context. >> is the right politics for the white house to aseed to wibs of white house. it's critically important for white house and democrats in congress. is the right play for the white house to say you know what, we'll give you additional delay which would give cushion to the seven of ten up for re-election. >> too early to tell. see how it will work. a couple of days or week or two to fix, stick with the current plan. if not, this is an entirely reasonable policy. this is the way nancy pelosi ran the house much more effectively than john boehner did. she knew there were red state democrats that would not like votes and she would let them go when she got to the level she needed. important to keep in mind here, them saying we need to do this, splashing water on obama care doesn't matter. they needed votes on the shutdown. that's important to keep it together. this is rhetoric essentially. >> besides the fact at the end of the day if the rollout goes as planned, by march, april, may, june, people signing up, this website glitch story will be in the rearview mirror. in massachusetts, the example, we have a chart that shows it dramatically, you had very few people signing up in the beginning anyway. it was really towards the end when out to the deadline that the bulk of people signed on. >> that's part of why this question, do you push back the deadline for people to sign up based on if you think there was not enough time or do you assume pretty much everybody is going to do it at the last minute anyway. i also think, lets not lose the forest for the trees. this is one part of health care reform. i don't want us to lose sight of the fact it is making a difference in people's lives all across this country. yes, the website has been problematic. but geez, that's one thing in the scope of something that will literally change the country. >> it's such an important point. particularly in southern states not doing exchanges, relying on federal exchanges and expanding medicaid, it's a huge part of affordable care act, not just website. >> there's a political thing to this we're talking about. every senator all voted for obama care. so the house is going to be used against them. playing this like saying delay the mandate if you will is very smart for them. that's politics. from a policy perspective, i think you have to let the thing work. karen is right. this is a sliver of it. i was thoroughly irritated by the fact it took me three weeks to do it. i had to pick up the phone and call somebody. that took three times. i got it done, now i'm going to go shop, figure out which plan i want. i live in virginia, a state that didn't participate, didn't do medicaid expansion, so i'm in the national exchange. >> that's one of the things i'm curious about, why the politics wouldn't also, alex, be statewide elected democrats turning the spotlight on their own governors in their home states saying my governor is preventing -- we don't see florida people here but you have the navigators, humans that are supposed to help you, being thwarted or medicaid not expanded. that seems to be missing from the democratic strategy. look, my state isn't doing this right or fully. >> absolutely. this is incredible cognitive dissident here, medicare, leaving it to the government, turning around screaming when people have access -- have trouble getting access to this law you tried to undermine. states doing it themselves like kentucky, it's working much better than the federal program. i wonder if you're going to start to see that. >> yet incredibly effective at turning narrative 100% to the website. >> i completely agree. there's an opportunity for democrats here that i hope they don't pass up. i'm 50/50. morally this is disgusting. we should be shaming these governors. basically they are putting ideology above the health care of their people, poorest people. in addition to that by not being part of creating their own exchange. in kentucky part of what they know is what do people in kentucky need the most. lets make sure it suits our people. federal exchange is mine in other places. some states governors are basically saying -- >> i will agree with karen, administration handing a burden they can't anticipate when states said you're on the exchange. that said i don't think the administration should get that much of a pass on this. they put a promise out to 7 million or so people supposed to buy insurance from the exchange they would have access, get the medical coverage they needed and they have not delivered. that is a fact. the administration should be held accountable for that. i will say this. it is creating an image for them that's not a good one, which is they cannot administer this president's signature domestic achievement. >> i don't disagree with you on that but i don't want us to lose sight on what the republicans blocking this have done. it is really morally disgusting. they should not get a pass. >> medicaid expansion. ironically they are turning around saying -- >> big deal. >> i know. >> the other issue on the exchanges specifically, the very states that said we don't like the big, bad federal government but come and run our exchange, then we're going to undermine the experiment any way we can, it's sort of ironic what they are demonstrating to their own people in their states, look, the federal government can't do it. we don't want them to. >> some of these red state governors acknowledge part of their goal was to put additional pressure on the federal system with the assumption people would go on and have a tough experience. i don't agree with sam, the fact they have had a bad experience in some cases is problematic. personally i think it is disgusting that the president of the united states of america had to go out on monday and defend this thing. but at the same time i just keep going back to people are getting health care. you can't lose sight of that. >> at some point, i think the republican party has to understand that the president will be the president until 2016. no matter what they do, this law will be the law, until 2016. they have to at some point say how can we make this law better in our own vision, our own ideology. they are not there yet. they still want to get rid entirely. at some point they have to come to that realization. >> the irony is in the state, the states rejecting it, they could own it as an issue, the federalism they dream of, entirely a state matter. they are the ones introducing the federal government into it. after the break, as wacko bird ted cruz flies off to iowa, the republican empire strikes back. we'll discuss the latest chapter in the gop "star wars" next on "now." [ female announcer ] so how long have you been living flake-free with head & shoulders? since before jeans were this skinny... since us three got a haircut. since my first 29th birthday [ female announcer ] head & shoulders. the number one dermatologist recommended dandruff brand. her busy saturday begins with back pain, when... hey pam, you should take advil. why? you can take four advil for all day relief. so i should give up my two aleve for more pills with advil? you're joking right? for my back pain, i want my aleve. ♪ ♪ if i was a flower growing wild and free ♪ ♪ all i'd want is you to be my sweet honeybee ♪ ♪ and if was a tree growing tall and green ♪ ♪ all i'd want is you to shade me and be my leaves ♪ grown in america. picked & packed at the peak of ripeness. the same essential nutrients as fresh. del monte. bursting with life™. after raising over a million dollars off a government shutdown that cost the u.s. economy $24 billion, tea party senator rafael ted cruz heads to the all important presidential caucus state of iowa today to woo would be 2016 voters. cruz's victory lap has many wondering how did we get here. back in 2004 corporate lobbyist and former republican house majority leader dick armey found a right ring group called freedom works, they sought to replicate grassroots successes of groups like movon and bring as many right wing republicans to congress as possible. that same year oil billionaires kach found add similar group, americans for prosperity with the goal of rolling back regulations on things like energy companies as well as tax rates on the wealthiest americans while cutting benefits for the nation's poor. in november 2010, establishments astroturf investments had dividends. record spending, stoked fear of health care reform, to whip conservative voters into an anti-obama political frenzy, remember the death panels, republicans took control of the house of representatives. now nearly 10 years after this odyssey began and with the government shutdown tanking support for the tea party, the republican establishment is trying to put the angry genie it created back in the bottle. they have launched new republican main street partnership which seeks to raise $8 million to beat back tea party challenges to mainstream republican incumbents. said la turret, hopefully we'll go into eight to ten races and beat the snot out of them. karl rove, evil genius in the 2004 presidential elections only to be cast aside after failing spectacularly in the 2012 election has launched conservative victory project. the goal, to avoid nominating tea party candidates deemed unelectable by rove, the very republicans who created tea party monster are trying their darnedest to defeat it. coming back out to the panel, it seems ironic you had dick armey's group loved the tea party and glommed onto it, now most afraid of it. >> hate to be nay sayer. i will believe empire strikes back when i see it. $8 million is what we're talking about. if the entire business community really wanted to take down the tea party we would talk about tens or hundreds of millions of dollars. there's no short supply of cash here. they are talking about a few special elections. i feel like the same story with labor and progressives against democrats. they make a lot of noise but i'm waiting to see. >> it sounds like dr. evil, $8 million, it's not that much money. it's true. if you look at the spending on the tea party side and aggressiveness, it isn't just the money. these tea party groups, senate conservatives, they are extremely aggressive. >> they are very aggressive. remember in 2010 establishment republicans were kind of excited by the tea party because they represented energy and represent, right, motivated. then they were like uh-oh, they are really motivated, they have a lot of energy and they are crazy. that's what they figured out. what i want to take us back to. >> god was on their side very much. >> in 2010 as this movement was spreading, i think all of us missed what was going on. it took a while for people to focus on the fact there was asta astroturf piece and some genuinely believed what they are saying. when some folks came out and say crazy things, forget they were there in 2010 as well. we glossed it over because basically what happened, freedom works came up on top of it and made it look and feel like this big, national energizing moment for the republican party. >> i still remember in 2008 at some of those sarah palin rallies, had people with curious george dolls, images of barack obama as a terrorist and yelling out frightening things. there was already a nation rage rumbling underneath republican establishment and the tea party group sort of grabbed it. >> no one flew gadsden flags, the yellow flag with snake on it where i'm from until barack obama ran for president of the united states. tea party wasn't tea party until barack obama ran for president of the united states. i don't think it was all because of barack obama. i think much of it was george bush. dick armey, former house majority leader who shepherded through tens of hundreds of billions of dollars of spending on the house floor. >> of pork. >> i'm completely behind as a former staffer, everyone goes wait a minute. i remember him sending when i walked for carl icahn, the billionaire, i sent a let toter saying we want him to give us millions. i threw it away. >> trying to keep the blue ship health care plan because he didn't want to trade it in for medicare. this isn't what you would think of a grassroots tea party guy. they were able to capitalize on it. some had gop offices sharing the same space. it's coming back to bite them from behind. they used it and needed it. >> dick armey is no longer with freedom works, we should add. >> yes. >> secondly to your point i'm sure koch brothers thought the $8 million was cute. that's adorable. >> while you're talking about the cuteness, can i show you how cute it is. the difference in spending, americans for pror peter $36 million, freedom works $19 million, american cross works $104 million of other people's money that karl rove blew. >> there is hope, theorizing last shutdown will have altered the dynamics here in which basically republicans say, man, what have we done. we're risking personal bottom lines by supporting these politicians. i'm skeptical as you are. we'll wait to believe it. if you look down the line, the club for growth, i don't understand. it seems to me they are more in line with obama. they support immigration reform. they don't want to shut down the government, flirt with default. on the major substantive issues of the day they seem to be in line with the president. >> isn't that because bush republicans -- george bush started out the gate we've got to be immigration reform, a push for more hispanics in the party they are completely out of step with the republican party. >> depends which issues you prioritize. for a lot of guys tea party is good deal. they are embarrassing but regulation, taxes, stuff that hits your pocketbook -- >> the most active voters in republican primaries. if you're running a presidential, even a senate campaign where statewide you're thinking i'm going to have to appeal to some other people than the white folks in this state, they vote. >> republicans have been making dirty deals with their people for decades. don't forget what lee atwater did, he tapped into the theory you're going to go and appeal to people's god sense nature, their religious affinity of those are the people you'll get out to the polls. the tea party is nothing more than a natural blossom off of that. by the way, be careful what you ask for. >> it's interesting they have been able to marry that religious fervor along with the idea of sticking it to the poor, the opposite of the jesus message. you can't forget -- i have this quote i have to pull out, nixon strategist, kevin phillips who said more outrageous things about what the republican party needed to do to grab the south, take the south away from democrats, the author of emerging republican authority. he said, the more negroes that register democrats, the sooner negrophobe whites will quit democrats. they are so successful snatching away the dixie south now they are stick with it. they have a party monochromatic and idea logically monochromatic. >> here is the problem. those white people die. >> not from death panels. >> okay. coming up -- >> on that high note. >> a republican election official in north carolina has reportedly been forced to resign in the wake of his offensive interview with the daly show. we haven't even gotten to what republicans are doing in texas. we'll discuss voting rights restrictions with nation's ari berman just ahead. ♪ ♪ ♪ [ female announcer ] with five perfectly sweetened whole grains... you can't help but see the good. whole grains... could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. mmmhmmm...everybody knows 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[buzzer] dangnabbit. geico. fifteen minutes could save you...well, you know. there are new ref layings in one of america's most chilling and captivating cases. after the murder of jonbenet ramsey, the grand jury indictment of the parents indictment has been sealed. prosecutors never charged them in the murder. lets get to nbc's mike taibbi following these developments from bolder, colorado. what have we learned from these documents? >> what we learned was 14 years ago this grand jury felt what a lot of people felt john and patsy ramsey were the ones responsible. there's nothing new in the information released beyond the fact the grand jury signed an indictment which the d.a. did not sign and declined to prosecute. what they are saying and one local reporter put it this way. the grand jury said they knew john and patsy ramsey were in the house that night, 1996. they knew something violent and tragic happened that resulted in the death of jonbenet ramsey and so they were to be indicted for that. the language was ambiguous. they said each did knowingly and recklessly let a child be placed in a situation where there was injury and death of jonbenet ramsey. i'm paraphrasing. each of them did knowingly assist another person unnamed in the indictment who was a suspect of the crime of first degree murder. that was it. no new information. the status of the investigation remains inactive but open. we're no closer to knowing what that 17 years ago. >> nbc's mike taibbi, thank you. so hard to believe that's been 17 years. thanks. after the break, when it comes to restricting voting rights, nobody messes with texas, except maybe north carolina. we'll discuss the latest efforts to block the vote and republicans who say the darnedest things when the nation's ari berman joins us next on "now." this morning dare to turn up the volume and make it last all night. 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>> yeah. >> you know we can hear you. >> yes. >> joining us contributing writer for the nation ari berman, the struggle for voting rights from 1955 to today. ari, we can hear you. we can hear everything you're saying. that clip is insane. we're going to talk about how crazy that was. first, i want you to give us a substance. what is the justice department doing vis-a-vis particularly texas and north carolina, voting laws. >> they have sued texas and north carolina under section 2 saying both laws are discriminatory. the real problem in north carolina is not the comments, the problem is the law itself. the comments were insane but discriminatory law is still on the books. north carolina is just arguing right now the lawsuit against it should be dismissed. we have to look at the substance here. yes, there are republican officials saying crazy, racist things, admitting the law is about kicking democrats in the butt but the bigger issue is that so many people in north carolina don't have ids early voting, same day registration, allowing vigilante poll watchers, public funding, judicial elections, all these bad provisions in the bill. >> lets put up a little of that, sunday voting, no more straight ticket in north carolina, requires voters to show government issued voter id. as you said eliminating same day voter registration. it's interesting how blatant the laws are targeting exactly what kind of voters. now a republican official saying, yup, i've been called a bigot. it's all crazy. it's the substance that's the problem. >> they are not hiding the ball. obviously this happened. demographic changes are putting states like north carolina and texas considered a democratic target down the road. it's one of these things we're talking about, sort of a last grasp to hold onto that southern strategy in a way. ari knows better than i. there's deep concern in legal communities the channels eric holder has to fend these off are dramatically limited. how long will these legal challenges take to may out. >> the texas law blocked under section 5 of the voting rights. this law shouldn't be in effect now. the roberts court overruled that decision. now goes into effect. lots of people disenfranchised. litigation could take up to a year. >> is there concern it could drag on past 2014 elections? >> absolutely. concern in both north carolina and texas this could drag on. they basically have to hope for preliminary injunction. the proof on the federal government, not the states discriminating to prove discrimination. >> quickly, could you also see because of stripping the bark off of the voting rights act things like purges you're seeing in florida and virginia. in the case of virginia we're talking about an election this month. >> remember all these states throughout the south had to clear with federal government. they had to prove they were not discriminatory before they went into effect. now they don't have to do that anymore. these changes go into effect and justice department has to object or voting rights object. that's a huge shift. >> to the point it's obvious who they are targeting, the woman gets on the ballot in texas, all of a sudden we have to change the rules. interestingly enough women decided 22 of 23 senate races in 2012. if you don't have original documents, it's a $20 fee generally. women are going to pay attention. we've got to pay for my birth control, now making me pay to vote. women are going to get enraged about this. interestingly enough women in red states have higher rates of divorced. if you're divorced you're less likely to have the document -- umm have to have your divorce papers as well as your id to vote. shot themselves in the foot with this one. >> you can also vote with a gun permit as opposed to an id with your legal name on it. >> you can't get a gun permit if you beat your wife. that goes to the point of women divorcing their husbands. the only way to fix the problem, congress has to fix it. congress has to go in and pass another voting rights act. >> that means it's never going to happen. >> they can't get an immigration bill. senate passed. judiciary committee not a liberal republican by any means has said, listen, we need to do something about this. great, is it going to get us 40 wacko birds from the caucus to get a bill off the floor, pull it through committee, is the chairman from virginia chairman of the judiciary committee going to move voting rights act? absolutely not. >> they have no self-interest. >> republican party not just in the south, spread north and west. that's why we're seeing voting restrictions out of pennsylvania and ohio who weren't in on the game previously. congress does have responsibility. they passed voting rights act in 1965. they have reauthorized it four times. the more we hear about what's happening in north carolina, the more we hear what's happening in tech, judges getting ensnared by laws, i think it will put pressure on congress. congress that just shut down president isn't going to pass voting rights. it's inevitable. >> supreme court called on congress to pass another version of the voting rights act. >> that was punting fig leaf put over a horrible 50 year anniversary on washington, snatching away vote rights. >> calling on congress to do things in their most basic interest. >> in 2017 when rand paul is president democrats will attach this to the debt limit deal and demand it. that's how it's going to happen. >> problem solved. appreciate it. the nation's ari berman, thank you. we're just getting new information on the affordable care act. jeff zients, the man brought in to fix healthcare.gov he told reporters in a conference call he expects it to run smoothly by the end of november. qssi has been appointed as a general contractor to oversee the changes. we'll have more on this as we get it and we'll be right back. when we made our commitment to the gulf, bp had two big goals: help the gulf recover and learn from what happened so we could be a better, safer energy company. i can tell you - safety is at the heart of everything we do. we've added cutting-edge technology, like a new deepwater well cap and a state-of-the-art monitoring center, where experts watch over all drilling activity twenty-four-seven. and we're sharing what we've learned, so we can all produce energy more safely. our commitment has never been stronger. oh, my parents will be here any minute. ♪ canned soup? 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some drone strikes coming at the request of pakistan's government. pakistan's governor under intense pressure denies the government has been involved in recent drone strikes p meanwhile new strut any from the drone program due to a report by amnesty international which claims continuing. new limits on drones in a speech last may and strikes in pakistan have slowed to a five-year low, no signs u.s. prepared to halt these operations entirely. next week pakistani man who lost his mother in a drone strike and featured in the amnesty international report will speak on the hill. laura's heart attack didn't come with a warning. today her doctor has her on a bayer aspirin regimen to help reduce the risk of another one. if you've had a heart attack, be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. while a body in motion tends to stay in motion. staying active can ease arthritis symptoms. but if you have arthritis, this can be difficult. prescription celebrex can help relieve arthritis pain and improve daily physical function so moving is easier. because just one 200mg celebrex a day can provide 24 hour relief for many with arthritis pain. and it's not a narcotic. you and your doctor should balance the benefits with the risks. all prescription nsaids, like celebrex, ibuprofen, naproxen and meloxicam have the same cardiovascular warning. they all may increase the chance of heart attack or stroke, which can lead to death. this chance increases if you have heart disease or risk factors such as high blood pressure or when nsaids are taken for long periods. nsaids, like celebrex, increase the chance of serious skin or allergic reactions, or stomach and intestine problems, such as bleeding and ulcers, which can occur without warning and may cause death. patients also taking aspirin and the elderly are at increased risk for stomach bleeding and ulcers. don't take celebrex if you have bleeding in the stomach or intestine, or had an asthma attack, hives, other allergies to aspirin, nsaids or sulfonamides. get help right away if you have swelling of the face or throat, or trouble breathing. tell your doctor your medical history. and ask your doctor about celebrex. for a body in motion. virginia gubernatorial candidates held their third and final debate ahead of the november 5th election. speaking at virginia tech where 32 people were killed in a mass shooting just six years ago the candidates each offered radically different visions for combating gun violence. >> i'm a strong supporter of the second amendment, i'm a gun owner and hunter. but i support universal background checks. >> i'm an a rated nra candidate. >> that's basically it. he's an a rated nra candidate. it's incredible what's going on, sam, in virginia. you now have looking at the polls terry mcauliffe, no extremely popular fellow crushing ken cuccinelli in the post, 46-38, women voters up 52-32, just lapping cuccinelli, then cuccinelli's anti-woman policies at the heart of it. opposed to abortion, birth control mandate, sterilization mandate. this could not be a worse candidate except for the other two people on the ticket. >> yes. i live in d.c. and i get the advertisement for northern virginians. it is almost all contraception related. it is literally targeting every single voter in northern virginia. that said, i will say i think ken cuccinelli will probably be the first candidate affected by the shutdown and will lose because of the shutdown and sequestration, too. the shutdown really hurt him. there's so many government jobs based in virginia depending on the government to stay open where people literally got their lives disrupted and were hurt financially. they saw the republican party as the main problem there. i think ken cuccinelli. he wasn't doing well before the shutdown but that zapped any possibility of coming back. >> a lot of federal employees, going back to women's issues, i don't think we can skip over, we talked about on the break, emblematic on the republican party running strong on policies that alarm and terrify younger women. >> beyond that, it also offends them. the language of some of this legislation makes it sound like you don't think these women have any self-control to do anything. that's what the republican party misunderstood last time when we went through this 2012 cycle that women were just offended by how they were being talked about. i will just say as a person who has done campaigns, it makes me a little nervous. great terry is up high, he's going to have to turn out obama coalition, high turnout. it's an election. you never know what's going to happen. also if people think, well, he's 40 points ahead, i don't need to vote. that will hurt him. >> couple of points. first, it will be closer than what the polls are showing. ken kucuccinelli and bob mcdonnl won by a landslide. women look at him and say i don't trust him but they trust bob mcdonnell. i don't get that. ken cuccinelli is running a terrible race. mcauliffe doesn't have to run a good race but he has to get -- >> mcdonnell didn't have hugh jackson. brooklyn residents kayla phillips swarmed by four undercover nypd police officers after literally purchasing a purse from an upscale clothing star. she had received her tax return and decided to splurge on the bag. trayon christian handcuffed and detained two hours after he bought a ferragamo belt. he saved up from a work study program. now both filing against nypd and barney's to fight alleged discrimination. according to his attorney, he said his only crime was being a young black man. alex, you have this strange thing happening. stores make a lot of cache on associates like jay z and hip-hop figures actually arresting people for coming in and spending money after they have spent it. >> this is 2013, new york city. it's important to remember. it should not be happening. brings me back when obama came out after trayvon and spoke about how he had been in a department store and he had been trailed. all these conservatives saying that didn't happen. it's just another example. this is one of many. this is another example. this is going on. we still need to talk about issues, we're not over race. >> the fact his name is trayon, too similar for words. extremely ugly. another piece, apparently edward snowden is not the only one leaking information, former movon director riding the train yesterday. great story. he overheard former nsa cia director michael peyton bragging about his spy tactics. former nsa spy boss michael hayden on acell, a behind me blabbing on background as a former senior admin officials, sounds defensive. hussein was bragging about rendition. snowden in russia, he snagged a pic with the spy boss. were you on the train. >> i was in the quiet car. i needed peace and quiet. i'm killing myself i was not sitting in the next to last car. i e-mailed him, where are you, next to the last car. actually, stay right here. >> every staffer's nightmare. i can tell you, when i worked with howard dean we would have the conversation when you're on the train and doing these calls, it's not really call time. everybody can hear you. >> how crazy do you have to be to be administration and understand the only people on the acella are journalists. >> we were both on the acela a few weeks ago each with a view of chris christie. i was desperately trying to -- he was good. he knew not to say anything ridiculous. my advice to any politician. actually i went them to speak. if i were advising them, get your am track cheese platter, bring it to the quiet car and chill out. >> thank you so much. don't forget to watch karen every weekend on "disrupt" 4:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. that is all for now. alex is back on monday at noon eastern. 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movement, leaders in it, and their recollections leading up to where we are today. please join me in welcoming our good friend, mallory factor. valerie. [applause] >> thank you so much. what a great introduction. what i good place to think about the conservative movement, the heritage foundation. want to thank carriage for its support of the big tent project. many people at heritage are instrumental in deserve my thanks starting with ed fall there for his early support of this project. thank you for forever urging me on board. contributing a critical fact -- chapter on reagan. the head towards four key observation on the early version of this manuscript most of all, i am grateful for heritage is fine work and conserving and renewing principles of the american founding. my friends, i grew up in bridgeport, conn., the home of phineas taylor barnum. p.t. barnum, as he was known, was the greatest circus' showman in history. let me paint a picture for you of how it was when i was a boy in an industrial new england city in the circuit came to town . a mile-long train with 60 cars pulled into the trade station. trucks moved loads on to the fair grounds, and local kids began to gather to watch the roustabouts unpacked. finally they set out in three huge rings and played the big tent that seemed, to us, impossibly big. held the promise of a thrilling spectacle of flying trapeze acts, tight rope walkers, a human cannonball bonfire breeders, line tamar's. and then, just then when it seems as if things could not get any more exciting the roustabouts set up the sideshow acts, the parade of human curiosity, the freak show. these were the real mysteries of the circus, and children here and to see them. that also haunted than later. the bearded ladies, siamese twins, the living skeleton, that sought -- the giant, zip the pen had caught the line faced man. my friends, this show was certainly -- would certainly offend modern sensibilities, but it was partly successful. as p.t. barnum put it, no one ever lost a dollar by underestimating the taste of the american public. [laughter] the american public is still interested in side shows. that is why every day a mainstream media portrays the conservative movement as a sideshow. they present a parade of horribles, candid it's too are portrayed as caring about the needs of women and minority groups, politicians who are said to promote xenophobia, fear of emigrants, and rich old white men your focus on lowering their tax rates and preserving the wealth instead of paying their fair share. day after day the media tells stories like these in lurid detail. through these reports and entire conservative movement is depicted as a parade of human oddity, just as shocking and just as fascinating as a circus sideshow. and many conservatives fear that the media-reported freak shows may turn the next generation away from conservatism. in considering this situation it is important to start with the observation that on many levels america is a concerted nation. earlier this year the "washington post" reported that conservatives outnumbered liberals in 47 of 50 states, but no, my friends, conservative, not republican. in fact, 38 percent of americans suffer identify as conservative. but less than 25% self identify as republican. as we all know, there is a widespread dissatisfaction with the republican brand among conservatives. reasons include attacks by the establishment republican party and conservatives, a disappointment with the party's choice of candidates and the republican party's endorsement of certain policies. the republican party started out as a movement gathered around an idea, the idea of ending slavery . the republican party began as an abolitionist coalition of northern awakes, free soil democrats, the american party, and other anti slavery groups. at a meeting in wisconsin in march of 1854 abolitionist expressed their alarm at a spread of slavery into the nebraska territory and floated a name for a new political party, republican party. eight months later the new party had taken over the house of representatives and many state houses as well. it circus' promoter p. t. barnum himself elected as 1865 as a republican to the connecticut state house, and in 1860, just six short years after the party was founded republican abraham lincoln was elected to the white house. while the republican party started out as an idea-driven movement, today's republican party is an established political party. for both parties ideology is far less important than party politics even though ideas motivate and invigorate the grassroots. in contrast to our two political parties the conservative movement is and always has been an idea-driven movement. conservatism has several important intellectual pillars. if you follow the mainstream media you will probably be able to rattle those off. the mainstream media would say homophobia, xenophobia, economic inequality and villagers in. president obama personifies this viewpoint when he talked during his first presidential campaign about small-town americans to, and i quote, clinton their guns and religion or have antipathy toward people will not like them . but this is not what conservatism is about. the conservative movement is not about people who refuse to a embrace progress. the movement is actually about the people who hold tight to core principles and all the essential truths that i need to save our beloved nation from charity. we all know what the real core pillars of the movement are. the respect of religion and tradition of past generations. two, the maintenance of the rule of law. three, protection of individual freedom and liberty. and for common belief in a higher law above man's law. the idea is that hold conservatism together are man's most important values which the american nation was founded upon , liberty, freedom, and a nation under god. the american founding was an assertion that they were entitled to the rights granted to the englishmen. it was an evolution rather than a revolution. and in the book "big tent" speaker gingrich, his contribution reminds us of this. the same pillars have brought new generations into the movement for decades. a movement has to have pillars we all agree on or the whole tent falls down. and leaders in our movement fall away from core principles, like they sometimes do, we must take a step back or reexamine our course and select the new leaders. what is conservatism really? conservatism is -- has a political and social philosophy that is ancient. the personal human impulse to defend and fight for one's most cherished convictions is natural conservatism as a guiding philosophy for social life, education, cultural distinctions , and government is natural and ancient. the word conservative comes from latin. it means tech guard, keep, safe. it conveyed the idea of starting something for the purpose of safekeeping perhaps because of the association with guarding many people confused conservatism with blindly holding tradition. but traditionalism fails to capture the movement adequately. conservatives recognize that tradition may be wrong or without meaning. tradition may be missing essential truths and moral substance toward which conservatives strive. it may need correction. conservatives have reverence and respect for tradition but are not inseparable from a. conservatives have numerous reasons that defy conservatives want government that functions according to the rights given to as by our constitution and respect for our anglo-american political heritage. conservatives want a government that is ordered and maintains the rule of law. conservatives want government to protect freedom, liberty, and property and not to choose winners and losers. conservatives want government to leave people alone to the greatest extent possible, allow them to use the fruits of their liberty to build their livelihood and until that people worship as they see fit. conservatives understand that there are objectives and truth is that must be defended, sides that must be taken, battles that must be fought. conservative principles stand in stark contrast to the democratic party's slogan which you probably all recall, government is the only thing we all belong to. if the american people start believing government is the only answer it will be a rigid in did indeed for our great american experiment. conservatives first came together as a modern movement in 1956. this is well established history, and i'm sure almost all of you in this room understand it. the modern conservative movement has emerged as a big tent with three central polls, national security conservatives, social conservatives, and economic conservatives. the idea harkens back to the late republican strategist lee atwater in 1989 when he is regarding conflict with the republican party said, our party is a big tent which canals many views on many issues. he was speaking of parties, the conservative movement can and should be seen as a big tent. conservatism is advocated by people with a wide range of views on defense spending, national security, foreign policy, legalization of drugs, abortion, marriage, immigration, and numerous other issues. we debate the money ourselves, often clashing fiercely with those in our movement who disagree with us in a policy. this vibrant and lively internal debate within the conservative movement stands in stark contrast to the orthodoxy of the left which seems to adopt the position of no enemies of the left. special interest groups joined in a grand coalition. each group gets legislation that benefits them in return for their support of other coalition member interest. this approach assures that all the groups get their piece of the pie whatever the cost to the nation. the idea behind the big tent was originally a p.t. barnum innovation. it was p.t. barnum who started the quintessentially american service with the traveling tent that could be set up in town after town after town on of the american frontier. when the crowds grew p.t. barnum added more polls and expanded the tend to fit in more patrons. the conservative movement's had taken his lead and enlarged the ten. but the result has been frequent conflict which reveals a deep intellectual and cultural rift between major constituencies in the conservative movement. my friends, the conservative movement is a truly big tend of people sharing common principles but with a wildly different world views. the movement includes paly of conns, evangelicals, eight diaz, a traditionalist, libertarians, policy hawks and isolationists, the tea party and the establishment, just to name a few. many of these groups really and truly disliked each other. it is amazing. but they come together in support of the conservative movement pillars. our conservative movement is noble in many ways, but in one way it is certainly falling very short. many conservatives would rather burn harry takes then unite and fight the infidels you are actively attempting to tear down our beloved country. the american conservative movement, conservatives put in place litmus tests on certain issues important to them and keep out other conservatives that don't agree with them. the result is the movement often seems fractured and divided in the media and in the popular imagination. over the course of american history conservative said had a difficult time electing candidates to congress and the white house who feared their principles because conservatives have never been represented by a single political party. even today, yes, even today conservatives are split. 19 percent of democrats so far identified as conservatives. 30 percent of independence sought by the fis conservatives. my friends, 30 percent of the republicans dealt. to have the opportunity to govern conservatives had to come together as a political movement and then align with the political party to get candid it's like to. as a practical matter conservatives rely on the republican party to get conservative politicians elected which usually involves compromise on issues, although, my friends, it does not involve throwing up core principles. the movement became closely associated with the republican party during the election of president reagan in 1980. although the conservative movement and the republican party remain closely aligned, it is a very uneasy partnership. conservatives complain that the republican party does not represent the tenants of the conservative movement faithfully , and the republican party finds conservative groups focus on ideology and are troublesome and problematic for the party. there is an emerging narrative leading up to the 2016 election being advanced by both the media and the republican party. key parties, libertarians, national security, conservatives, social conservatives, they're reading the chances of the republican party taking else possibly ever again. at the most basic level these conservative groups oppose a great challenge to the republican party because these groups are focused on ideology rather than party politics. but, of course, you know as i do at times these so-called troubles some groups include everyone in the big tent except possibly the republican party loyalists themselves. many grassroots conservatives fear that america is facing an imperial presidency and the tyranny is more possible than any in the time in history. this position is probably one of the hardest for progress is to understand and the hardest republican party to deal with. another tough issue is social conservatism, the media, and even some other conservatives. they attacked them and they attacked them very hard when they express views in consistent with their liberal world view. but whenever the elite, republican and democrat may think of social conservatives, social conservatives said they represent the core of the republican party. the republican party in its present configuration cannot win elections without the. evangelicals constituted a whopping 27% of the electorate in 2012. with other types of religious conservatives contributing an additional ten to 12% to my e-mail recall the media upper in the u.s. over the comments about gays by duck dynasty patriarch phil robinson, the outrage led to rescind being suspended by the end the network, but the broad support from prominent conservatives from all wings of the conservative movement resulted in riots in being taken of suspension. about a week after the controversy erupted. the example shows up on the broader conservative movement, the conflict dissipates and the media backs down. this stands in contrast to the example of two republican senatorial candidates in 2012. they were abandoned by many wings of the conservative movement as well as the republican party. question is, are they case is different because of the statements each made? maybe. but it is also possible that the main difference, the conservative unity was that the candidate -- one was a candidate for office and the other was not . wings of the conservative movement did not like murdoch. they fought hard against him and the primary. so when the opportunity a rose these other wings quickly came out against these candid it's in hopes of replacing them with other candidates who would represent their particular ideology better. as we all know too well, many of the worst public divisions in the movement, the results of conservative wings fighting each other and primaries and the political arena. the truth is, for conservatives to win the right to govern three core groups of the conservative movement's, policy conservatives, social conservatives, the economic conservatives will have to work together to elect candidates. and for the foreseeable future the conservative movement will have to use the republican party to get its candid it's elected or simply lose. there will continue to be many freak show moments when the interest of the different groups allied. in the p. t. barnum circus the freak show was a hugely popular attraction. it was so popular, in fact, that p.t. barnum could not get patrons to that side show as fast as he would have liked. some would linger for hours. so he solved the problem by posting a huge sign over the door that read, to the dress. carious patrons went through that door and found themselves outside learning oil you already know that egress means exit. yes, conservative leaders wish they could find a simple way to show their troublesome faction to the egress, but the conservative leaders cannot agree among themselves which groups should be cast out of the movement's first. the conservative movement remains a movement of ideas. ideological purity me be the enemy of victory. it is the role of conservatives to generate new ideas and policy but conservatives also need to a joint gm to get the policies implemented. only by winning the right to govern can conservatives bring their freedom and liberty tarnation. my friends to my core principles cannot be violated, but policy differences need to be tolerated . governing according to conservative principles will allow our exceptional nation to thrive and prosper. that to my friends, is really the concept. i want to thank you for being with me in the big tent. [applause] >> and we will be glad to take questions. we ask if you would be so kind as to identify yourself and affiliation if there is an appropriate one as a courtesy to our guest. how could you have ever thought of p.t. barnum, circus roundabouts and come to d.c.? i am just amazed. one other "famous among conservatives, we shoot inward instead of outward. questions from the audience. he could not have told you everything. he tried. >> a lot of conservatives like myself think that that tent could use a few more people. looking at the other side, who do you think are the people we should be reaching into? >> we saw something very interesting happened recen >> we saw something very interesting happened recently with one of the contributors to the book. we have 17 contributors to the book. rand paul davis beach that c. peck that got a standing ovation he gave the same speech. we need people like that that can crossover and actually get to involvement from a broader spectrum. that is the perfect example of how you can do it. i think you need more of that. >> next question. though, come on. >> thank you very much. if i could make a correction. i work for ringling brothers. [laughter] >> thank you. i will take that under advisement. >> greatly encouraged by the use , and i am wondering if you could, perhaps, give them a message that would encourage them to reach out. >> well, i think the real message is that we -- the core principles -- and we should be talking about those rather than a lot of policy detail and getting bogged down on fighting each other over -- i mentioned this to a member of congress, and he used it in a speech yesterday. he was saying that the four core principles resonate with a number of people. and he came up with those principles, went through all these 17 people. michael barone -- don rumsfeld. and we found that these were -- these principles flow through of them, even the head of the iranian society or foundation, i think it is called. these core principles resonate. we get too caught up in trying to fight each other over policy differences. >> another question. >> you said that the american revolution was more of an evolution than a revolution. i was wondering, what are your thoughts on the relevance of that declaration and how we interpret the constitution, and is that something conservatives should be united on? >> that is a really good question. my wife is an attorney, and she believes in black letter law. other people believe in and using the declaration. i think that that is a question beyond my ability, but i will tell you that we live in two nations. i saw there is an organization that did a piece of work recently. they asked people what they felt about abortion. you may have seen there research 75 percent of people of the northeast said that abortion should be available in almost every case. 60 percent of people in the south disagreed with that. gay marriage, 62 percent of northerners are absolutely ford, 61 percent seveners against it or not ford. i mean, it is just fascinating to see how we are really two nations. he really pay attention to the declaration of independence, you can almost use it again. that's why i'm not going to go there, but it is shocking to me how. and i have lived in both nations. i used to live in new york. i now live in south carolina, and we really have two different cultures and countries and it is getting harder and harder to bridge that. and i don't know how we do it. i really don't. i will throw one other thing. kirk wrote something many years ago that i think is important for us to look at. the four cities that are absolutely important to western civilization. he talks about jerusalem guinness true law or divine law, the basis for social order, the idea of the separation of powers , that universality of wall. he then talks about it culminating in philadelphia, which i think tennis. and with the american experiment i think we are losing those four key western principles. i think this particular administration is helping us lose them faster, but i worry about that. by the way, the first chapter of the book, he talks about that at great length. it is really pretty interesting to read about that in the first chapter. is there any -- no, great. thanks. in light of these comments and the division within the country maybe we can focus on your great concept of attacking the infidels before we burn the heretics even within the conservative movement. >> tough. not really. i think it is a matter of continuing to talk about our core principles and working together on that. i think that is one of the hardest things to do. and the murdoch verses roberts and example, i think, vividly shows how everybody is trying to collect their guy frequently to the detriment of our country and the conservative movement. i don't know how we do it. i worry about it. again, the left is far better organized. what i'd like to think about this something that reagan is credited with. he talked about, the person who agrees with you 80 percent of the time is a friend and ally. he is not a 20% trader. we have to keep reminding people about that. i think that is so important. in the book dead niece talks abt that at great length. i think there is lot there to be said. i don't know how we keep reminding people. maybe we tattooed on every single member of congress's and every state legislators and a something. i just don't know how we do it. >> as i understand it you are teaching. >> yes. i will be teaching at cambridge next year as well. >> okay. my question relates to -- >> introduction. >> relates to your observation about young people over the years. have you seen changes and their behaviors and attitudes that either encourage or discourage you with regard to conservatism? >> that's a great question. great question. our president said that he once colleges and vocational schools to train people for jobs for our society. i am waiting for college kids to come back telling them they are being trained to be barristers. i think that they are recognizing that given what is happening in our society and that they see young people, younger people see it you need to have a free market, individual freedom, individual liberty to be able to keep this great american experiment going. i think you are seeing that. i use the rand paul example. i cannot believe that senator paul, the social conservative, gets a standing ovation. at general crowd at berkeley? i think -- i think we are doing something, seeing something happening that is very good. i think it bodes well, but with all these changes that are being made, i believe the legal changes, unconstitutional changes, it will be hard to unwind some of these things. i know that's not a great answer, but -- >> the comment about the young people and how we are attacked and vulnerable. i think the three things you talked about, the social issues, the biggest divider. i take where rand paul got his standing ovation was that he is a libertarian pretty much. i think that as long as the social issues are something that people dig their heels in about, i don't think government needs to tell us what to do about social issues. i don't think they have any business in that area. so the democrats use that because they know we are divided on it. i think the reason rand paul and all the young people i know, they don't have problems with those social issues. >> i agree with you completely. i would like to come back to history. for those of you who are students of history, in '76, the first to enjoy the president was elected, jimmy carter elected with 66 percent of the hunt the -- of the evangelical vote. evangelicals got mad at him. and four years later lost with rolled reagan carrying 64%. my point is that social conservatives have to be kept within the big tent structure or we will lose unless we completely reformulate, and i don't know how that will happen. i agree with you that -- and i can't speak for senator paul. he is a social conservative to the best of my knowledge, but that is not an issue that he just tries to ram down people's throats. that's important. >> a concept that i did not hear in your presentation is to ask about the comments of american conceptualism. how do you relate the concept and all of the ideas and freight to the outline that you are presenting your? >> interestingly enough, 17 contributors of the book, and one is newt gingrich. he talks about that. basically saying we're losing that because of the way we are stifling our market to my government is being involved in everything. it is by freeing people that we can keep this exceptional as some going. obviously you remember -- well, not exactly, but what president obama said about american exceptional as an. that is -- i believe democrats and liberals are striving for uniform mediocrity. and feel that american exceptional as some is wrong. i don't. i believe in our country, america. i believe that by having a big tent held up by polls that are poor -- corporation polls or pillars that we can save our country and continue this great american experiment. >> yes. >> thank you. marc levin and his supporters argue that given the size of government, the complexity of laws that you really need a fundamental, constitutional reform at the state level. even if it gets -- if you get good people, political leaders, the bureaucracy, government is really going to block efforts to reform. >> one of -- your talking -- i think bureaucrats to date are really politicians of tenure. that is what has happened. they have not become civil servants. they have become politicians with tenure. we need reformation. i don't know how we will do it. the states have become less and less important. these places of experimentation are being shut down. i think it has to start in washington first. washington is the key to unleashing niece places that can really produce innovation. washington is worried us to start. >> final question. that looks like it. thank you for joining us. [applause] >> copies of his books are available for sale. he will autograph. we thank you for your attention. >> thank you all. [inaudible conversations] >> you're watching 48 hours of nonfiction authors and books on c-span2 book tv. up next on book tv "after words" with guest host dr. sally satel, ati fellow specializing in health care. this week dr. ezekiel emanuel and his new book "reinventing american health care". and it as he provides and explicit outline of how the affordable care act is reshaping american health care for the better. this program last one hour. .. i cerda said to myself, would it be nice if there were 250 page book we could give to someone and that would explain the system. when you look out there, there's no such book. the reason is if you're a tenured professor or policy person, it's beneath you to write the book thing in the system and if your content are trying to get tenured commie writes a book and you never get tenure. i wanted to fill that void. once i got into writing the book, you begin to think it sets the platforms for what's going to happen. why don't i start making predictions about the future for all the people i've talked to to and i'd been trained well enough because of one of my college is a professor of morton and he's done a lot of research about making predictions and warns you it's a bad idea because experts don't do so well. nonetheless, we all have to make addictions whether running hospitals or doctors or investors if i did my best on the predictions. >> a lot of people value is one of the architects of the aca, affordable care act, otherwise known as obamacare.
no bill o'reilly as the factor. malory in this case has been a factor long before the factor was cool. he is now professor of international politics and american government that the citadel and is the host and cofounder of the new york meeting a nationally recognized gathering of elected officials, journalists, business leaders and conservative authors in new york city and he also founded a similar charleston meeting that needs in south carolina. he previously authored "the new york times" bestseller which he is too modest to advertise, shadow boxes, government unions control america and abroad for taxpayers blind. he's a member of the council on foreign relations and served as the vice-chairman of the council on foreign relations task force financing. he's frequently testified before the house and senate committees on terror financing, regulation of the financial services industry and other economic issues. he also served as the chairman of the free enterprise fund, a free-market as he says tank addeadded 18 eco- advocating grh and limited government, and they also brought the challenge to the sarbanes oxley supreme court, and of course today we are featuring him on the big tent where we learn a little bit about our own movement and the recollections leading up to where we are today. please join me in welcoming our good friend mallory. [applause] >> what a great introduction. what a better place to speak about the movement and the heritage foundation. i want to thank you for your support of the big ten project. many people at heritage are instrumental and these are my thanks. thank you for urging me onward. for continuing the critical chapter on ronald reagan for his keen observations on the early versions of this manuscript. most of all i'm grateful for the fine work on renewing the principles of the american founding. pt barnum was known as the greatest circus showman in history. let me paint a picture for you at how it was when i was a boy in the city into the circuit came to town. a mile long train with sick b. cars into the train station. trucks moved below on to the fairgrounds and local kids began to gather. finally they set out and raised the big tent that seemed to us and possibly big. it held a promise of a thrilling spectacle of flying trapeze acts, tight rope walker is a human cannonball, fire breathers and lion tamer's and just then when it seemed things couldn't get anymor any more exciting, tt up the sideshow act. the parade of human kerry on cities -- curiosities. this is the children yearned to see and it also haunted them later. siamese twins, the living skeleton, the giant spawn, the lion face and. my friends, this show would offend modern sensibilities, but it was wildly successful. as pt barnum put it, nobody ever lost a dollar by underestimating the taste of the american public. the american public is interested still inside shows. that's why every day the main street media approach raise the conservative movement as a sideshow candidates are pro- trade as uncaring about the needs of women and minority groups, politicians to promote xenophobia and those focused on lowering their tax rates instead of paying their fair share. today after day, the media tells stories like this in detail. through these reports, the entire conservative movement is effective as a parade of human oddities, just as shocking and just as fascinating as a circus sideshow. and many conservatives figured that the media reported shows returnemeturn the next generatiy from conservatism. in considering the situation, it's important to start with the observation that on many levels america is a conservative nation. earlier this year, the "washington post" reported that conservatives outnumbered liberals in 47 of the 50 states. the conservatives, not republicans. in fact, 38% of americans self identify as conservatives. but less than 25% felt it in a fight as republicans. as we all know, there's a widespread dissatisfaction with the republican brand him o amone conservatives. reasons include attacks by the establishment republican party on conservatives. disappointment with the parties choice of candidates and the republican party's endorsement of the policies. the republican party started out as a movement gathered around an idea. the idea of ending slavery. the republican party began as an abolitionist coalition of the free soil democrats, the american party and other anti-slavery groups. at a meeting in wisconsin, in march of 1854, evolution us expressed their alarm at the spread of slavery into the nebraska territory and they loaded the name for the new political party. the republican party and this is march of 1854. just eight months later, the new party had taken over the house of representatives and many statehouses as well. circus promoter pt barnum himself was elected as a republican to the connecticut statehouse. and in 1860, just six years after the party was founded, republican abraham lincoln was elected to the white house. while the republican party started out as an idea driven movement, today's republican party is an established political party. for both parties, ideology is far less important than party politics. even though ideas motivate and invigorate the grassroots. in contrast to the two political parties, the conservative movement is and always has been an idea driven movement. conservatism has several important intellectual pillars. if you follow the mainstream media, you can probably rattle those worse off in the mainstream media would say racism, sexism, xenophobia, economic inequality and militarism. president obama personifies this viewpoint when he talks during the first presidential campaign about small-town americans who come and i quote, cling on to their guns and religion or have antipathy towards people that are not like them. but this is not what conservatism is about. the conservative movement is not about people that refuse to embrace progress and have been left behind. the movement is actually about the people who hold tight onto the court principles and hold essential truths that are needed to save our beloved nation from tyranny. we all know what the real core pillars of the movement are. number one, the respect for religion and tradition of the past generations. number two, the maintenance of the rule of law. number three, protection of individual freedom and liberty, and therefore, belief in a higher law. the ideas that hold the conservatism together are rooted in the most important values. it is the belief in the order of liberty, freedom and the nation under god. the american founding was an assertion by colonial colonialsy were entitled to the rights granted. it was an evolution rather than a revolution. and in the book speaker newt gingrich in his contribution reminds us of this. in the same pillars have brought new generations into the movement for decades. a movement has to have some pillars we all agree on or it falls down. when leaders of the movement following from the core principles, which they sometimes do, we must take a step back and re-examine our course and select new leaders. but what is conservatism really? conservatism has as a politicad social philosophy of ancient. the personal human impulse to defend and fight for one's boost tourist convictions is natural it is timeless. conservatism as a guiding philosophy for social life, education, cultural institutions, and government the word conservative when combined means to guard, keep us safe. it conveys the idea of attentively guarding something for the purpose of safekeeping. perhaps because of association with guarding, many people conserve it could confuse conservatism with the blind tradition. it fails to capture the movement adequately. conservatives recognize that tradition may be wrong or misleading through which conservatives drive. if they need protection. they have respect for tradition but are not inseparable from it. conservatives have a numerous reason that they fight. conservatives want a government that functions according to the rights given to us by our constitution and respect for our anglo-american political heritage. conservatives want a government that is ordered and maintains the rule of law. conservatives want a government to protect freedom, liberty and property and not to choose winners and losers. conservatives want the government to leave people alone to the greatest extent possible, to allow them to use the fruits of their liberty to build their livelihoods and to let people worship as they see fit. conservatives understand that there are objective truths that must be defended in. they stand in stark contrast to the democratic party's slogan at its convention which we probably all recall the government is the only thing that we all belong to. if the american people start believing government is the only answer, it would be a wretched ending indeed for our great american experiment. conservatives first came together in the 1960s. the movement has emerged with three central polls national security conservatives, social conservatives and economic conservatives. the idea that it harkens back to the strategist lee atwater in 1989 regarding conflicts with republican party's piece at our party we can house many views on many issues. while he was speaking of the party of the conservative movement can and should also be seen as a big tent. conservatism is advocated by people with a wide range of views on defense spending, national security, foreign policy, legalization, abortion, marriage, immigration and numerous other issues. we debate all these issues among ourselves often clashing fiercely with those in the movement that disagree with us about policy. this lively internal debate in the movement stands in stark contrast to the orthodoxy of the left. special interest groups join in the coalition in each group gets legislation that benefits the return for their support of other commotions members interest. this approach ensures that all the groups on the left to get their piece of the government type whatever the cost is to the nation. the idea is the innovation. it was pt barnum that started the american circus with the traveling tent that could be set up in town on the american front here. when the crowd grew, he decided more would expand to fit in more patrons. the movement has taken the lead but the result has been frequent conflicts that reflects the deep intellectual and cultural risk between major constituencies in the conservative movement. it is a big tent of people sharing common principles, but with wildly different worldviews. the movement includes traditionalists and libertarians, foreign-policy walks -- alicia missed. the tea party and the establishment, just to name a few. many of these groups really and truly disliked each other. i mean, it is amazing how much they dislike each other. but they come together in support of the conservative movement's pillars but not frequently enough. the conservative movement is noble in many ways. many would rather learn different wings of the movement and to unite and fight the infidels attempting to tear down the beloved country. the american conservative movement, the one stripe put in place with its tests on certain issues important to them and keep out other conservatives that don't agree with them. it often seems divided in the media and in the popular imagination. conservatives have a difficult time to share the principles because conservatives have never been represented by a single political party. even today the conservatives are split. 19% of democrats suffered in a finance conservative. 35% of independent cells identify as conservatives. 30% of republicans don't. to have the opportunity to govern the conservatives have to come together as a political movement and then a line in the political party to get a candidate elected. as a practical matter the conservatives rely on the republican party to get the conservative politicians elected. and this usually involves compromise on some issues. although my friends, it doesn't mean that it has to involve throwing out the corporate circles. the movement became associated during the election of president reagan in 1980. although the conservative movement int and the republican party remain closely aligned, it is a very uneasy partnership. they complain the party doesn't represent the conservative movement faithfully and with republican party finds the conservative groups focused on ideology as troublesome and problematic for the party. there is an emerging narrative leading up to the 2016 e. election as advanced by both the media and the republican party. the narrative holds that the tea party libertarian, national security can't conservatives and social conservatives -- and this depends on who you're talking to of course, but they are taking the white house possibly ever again. at the most basic level the groups pose a challenge to the republican party because these groups are focused on ideology rather than party politics. but of course you know as i do at times these so-called troublesome groups include everyone in the big tent except the loyalists themselves. many grassroots conservatives fear that america is facing an imperial presidency. the tierney now is more possible than any other time in our history. this position is probably one of the hardest for progressives to understand into the republican party to deal with. the media and even some other conservatives attack the social conservatives and they attack them very hard when they express views inconsistent with their liberal worldview. they represent the core of the republican party. evangelicals constituted a whopping 27% of the electorate in 2012. with other types contributing an additional ten to 12%. you may recall the media uproar about the duck dynasty patriarch phil robertson. the outrage led to him being suspended by the network. but the broad support for the prominent conservatives from all wings of the conservative movement resulted in robertson being taken off of the suspension. this example shows on the broad conservative movement defends the statements of the conservatives, the conflict dissipates into the media backs down. this stands in contrast to the republican senatorial candidate in 2012. favorite abandoned by many wings of the conservative movement as well as the republican party. the question is are the cases different because of the statements each made? maybe. but it's also possible that the main difference in the conservatives unity was that they were candidates for office and robertson wasn't. other wings of the conservative movement didn't like them to begin with and they fought hard against them in the primaries. so when the opportunity arose, these other wings quickly came out against the candidates in hopes of replacing them with other candidates who would represent a particular ideology better. as we all know too well many of the public divisions in the movement result from fighting each other in primaries and the political agreement. >> the truth is for conservatives to win the rights to govern, the core groups of the conservative movement, the foreign-policy conservatives, the social conservatives and economic have to work together to elect candidates and the movement will have to use the republican party to get the candidates elected or simply lose. but there will continue to be many moments when the interest of the different groups collide. in the circus this freak show was a hugely popular attraction. it was so popular in fact that pt barnum didn't get the patrons through the sideshow as fast as he would have liked. some would linger there for hours. so, he solved the problem by posting a huge sign over the door that read it to the egress. here the patrons went to the door and found themselves outside, learning what you already know, that egress means exit. yes, conservative leaders wish they could find a simple way to show their troublesome factions to the eagerness but they cannot agree among themselves which groups should be cast out of the movement. the ideological purity may be the enemy of victory. it is the role of the conservatives to generate new ideas and policies, but conservatives also need to join together to get these policies implemented. my friends, the core conservative principles cannot be violated. the policy differences between tolerated. governing according to the conservative principles will allow our nation to thrive and prosper. that is the contradiction that movement can make to the nation and the world. i want to thank you for being with me in the big tent. [applause] >> ed will be glad to take questions and we would ask if he would be so kind to identify yourself and affiliation if there's an appropriate one with a courtesy of course to the test. after you have ever thought of the circus and to come to washington, d.c.? another quote is that we always gather as we shoot inward. questions from the audience? speculative conservatives like myself think they were looking at the other side and who do you think from their coalition are people that we should be reaching out to? >> i think we saw something very interesting happened recently with one of the country because to do that. we have 17 contributors in the book by the way from phyllis schlafly to rand paul who gave a speech and got a standing ovation. he gave the same speech almost as berkeley who got a standing ovation. we need people like that that can cross over and actually get involvement from a broad spectrum. that is a perfect example of how you can do it and i think we need more of that. >> to the egress sign -- >> next question. >> behind you. >> thank you very much. if i could make it correction i work for wrigley brothers -- [inaudible] >> thank you. i will take that under advisement. >> i was wondering if you could perhaps give a message that would encourage them to reach out. it' >> i think the message is the four core principles -- and we should be talking about those rather than a lot of policy detail and getting bogged down on fighting each other over that. i mentioned this to a member of congress who used it in a speech yesterday and he was surprised that the court for principles designated the number of people. and he's not a contributor to do that but the way we came up with the principles as we went through all the 17 people from haley barbour, from michael brown to donald rumsfeld and we found that these principles flowed through all of them can even ron kirk who heads up the society foundation i think it is called come of these core principles resonate and i think we get too caught up in trying to find each other over policy differences. >> you said that the american revolution was more of an evolution than a revolution. i was wondering what are the thoughts on the ideas to the language that we interpret and decidis that something that conservatives should be united on? >> that's a really good question. my wife is a attorney and she believes in black letter law and other people believe in using the declaration. that is a question beyond my ability but i was argued that we live in two nations almost and i saw something in the research which has an excellent organization that is a piece of work recently and they asked people what they thought about abortion 75% of people in the northeast said that it should be available in almost every case. 60% of people in the south disagreed. 62% of northerners, 1% of southerners against it and it's just fascinating to see how we are two nations if you pay attention to the declaration of independence you can almost use it again so i'm not going to go there. but it is shocking to me how i've lived in both nations. i now live in south carolina and we have two different cultures and it's getting harder and harder to bridge that and i don't know how we do it but i will throw one other thing. i think it's so important for us to look at today and he talks about the four cities that are absolutely important to the western civilization. he talks about jerusalem and athens, the idea of the separation of powers, london the university out of the of the law and he then talks about it, knitting in philadelphia which i think it has for the american experiment and i think we are losing those for key western principles. i think that this administration is helping them lose faster, but i worry about that. by the way the first chapter he talks about that at great length and it's really pretty interesting to read about that in the first chapter. >> maybe we can focus on attacking the infidels do you have any thoughts on how we can do that? the >> tough, not really. i think it's a matter of continuing to talk about what are the core principles and that is one of the hardest things to do and i think that it's everybody trying to elect their guy and to the detriment sometimes of the country and of the conservative movement i don't know how we do it, i worry about it and again, the left is far better organized. i like to think of something ronald reagan is credited with he's not a 20% traitor. and i think we have to keep reminding people about that because i think that is just so important command at least contributed a chapter in the heritage foundation and talks about that at great length and i think that there is a lot there to be said. i don't know how we keep reminding people. maybe we tattooed on every single member of congress and every state legislator but i just don't know how we do it. >> if i understand you are teaching is that right? >> yes i will be teaching at cambridge next year as well. >> so my question relates to -- relates to your observations about young people over the years. have there been changes in their attitudes that either encourage or discourage you with regards to conservatism? >> great question. the president has said that he wants colleges and vocational schools to train people for jobs for our society. i'm waiting for kids to come back telling them that they are being trained. i think that they are recognizing that given what is happening in our society that basie young people that you need to have individual freedom, you need to have individual liberty to be able to keep this great american experiment going i think you are seeing that and again i use the example from his speech at berkeley. i can't believe that senator paul, but social conservatives have a standing ovation of the general crowd so i think that we are doing something and seeing something happening that very good and think it bodes well that with all of these changes being made by the current administration is going to be hard to unwind some of these things. i know that is not a great answer but i have answered a little bit. >> i think it goes to the last comment about the young people and how we are attacked in a vulnerable. i think that the three things you talk about being the social issue that is the biggest divider and also north and south and i think where rand paul got his standing ovation is that he's a libertarian pretty much and i think that as long as the socialists are something that people dig their heels about i don't think the government needs to tell us what to do about social issues. i don't think they have any business in that area of most people's lives. the democrats use that because they know that we are divided on it and they just ran that between conservatives to pry them apart and i think the reason rand paul got that standing ovation and all the people i know that our conservatives, they don't have problems with most social issu issues. >> i agree with you completely. and i like to come back to history and for those of you that ou are students of historyd 76 the first evangelical president was elected with 66% of the evangelical vote. evangelicals got mad at him. and four years later he lost with ronald reagan carrying 64% of the evangelical vote. my point is that social conservatives have to be kept within the structure or we will lose unless we completely reformulate and i don't know how that is going to happen. but i agree with you that -- and i can't speak for senator paul. i know the man but he's a social conservative to the best of my knowledge. and it is not an issue that he tries to ram down peoples throats and i think that's what you're getting. that's important. >> a concept that i didn't hear in your presentation which i think might be useful is to ask about the concept of american exceptionalism and how do you relate to the concept in which all of these ideas and afraid of the term american exceptionalism to the outline that your presenting here. .. >> >> that we can save our country to continue to save this great american experiment. >> thank you. given the size of governance to need a fundamental constitutional reform to get good people with leadership positions is going to block efforts for reform. >> but our politicians with tenure.
her lessons from winning a legal battle against pacific gas & electric in california when they polluted her city's water supply. millions of americans are on the edge of a hunger cliff as republicans push for cuts to food stamps and unemployment benefits. >> politics? what's that? example.ve you an ronald reagan campaigning in 1980 and complaining about welfare queens. race on doesn't mention its surface. >> we will speak with professor ian haney lopez, author of the new book, "dog whistle politics: how coded racial appeals have reinvented racism & wrecked the middle class." all of that and more coming up. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. more than 200 south sudanese civilians have drowned in the white now river while attending to flee violence. an army spokesperson told afp as many as 300 people died in the accident on an overloaded ferry including children. hundreds of thousands have been displaced by the conflict in south sudan. talks between the government and rebels are underway in ethiopia. egypt has begun a two-day referendum on a new constitution. the vote is seen as a possible precursor to her presidential bid at egypt's top military general. it takes place amidst an ongoing track down on dissent including the arrests of those who oppose the charter. hundreds of thousands of police and soldiers were deployed across egypt. before polling began, an explosion rocked a cairo neighborhood. the muslim brotherhood has called for a boycott. an activist with the april 6 democratic front said his group is also rejecting the vote. >> we can never purchase a paid and give legitimacy to regime which tries to act like it is a civil democratic regime while it is neither democratic or civil. we will not participate in the constitution which arms a military state after we revolted against its principal and oppressive nature filled with aggression, violence, and rage against all that oppose it. >> the vote comes as 50 news outlets are calling on egypt to release at least eight detained journalists, including three from al jazeera. detained in late december. on monday, group of journalists released a statement saying the rest had "cast a cloud over present media freedom in egypt." among the signers were sharif abdel kouddous. the new interim leader of central african republic has ordered a military crackdown amidst ongoing fighting between christian and muslim fighters. the former president resigned last week after failing to contain the violence. the interim president said he was deploying 400 additional soldiers to the capital. >> all of the armed elements, i morning -- i morning, the holiday is over. to the forces of order, i were you to shoot to kill at all of those disturbing the public order so peace can rein in this country. the break is finished. according to the united nations, two thirds of the residents have fled from the violence. opposition protests marched on government buildings in thailand for second day today as part of a push to shut down the capital bangkok. thousands of demonstrators camped out in the streets overnight after blocking intersections and forcing schools to close monday. the protesters want prime minister yingluck shinawatra to resign a be replaced by an unelected people's council. on capitol hill, lawmakers have agreed on a one dollar trillion spending bill to give the government funded through september. about half of that amount will go to the military. the bill boost federal budget after lester's across-the-board cuts, but keeps level tens of billions of dollars lower than democrats wanted. headstarts funding to education programs and finances some efforts to curb sexual assault in the military. it also allows $1.5 billion in aid to egypt despite global concerns over the crackdown on activists and journalists. in california, a jury has acquitted to former fullerton police officers of all charges in the beating death of a mentally ill homeless man in 2011. men well ramus and j cicinelli were charged with battering kelly thomas with the baton in stun gun, leaving him comatose. thomas died days later. the incident was captured on surveillance video that appears to show police threatening thomas as he sits on the ground and beating him even though he appears to show no resistance. thomas can be heard on the video pleading for help, apologizing and saying he can't breathe. prosecutors have decided not to pursue charges against a third officer accused in the incident. tally thomas's father reacted to monday's verdict in an interview with local news station knx 10 70. >> i'm feeling horrible. unbelievable,is completely innocent on all counts. i mean, they're brutally reading him to death. we all see that. yet their innocent on all counts. in real. >> following the verdict, protesters carrying candles gathered at the transit depot in fullerton, california or kelly thomas was fatally beaten. the senate has confirmed president obama's fourth nominee for the d c circuit court of appeals, consider the second most powerful court in the country. following the confirmation of robert wilkins, democrats now hold a seven to four majority on the court. the vote took place as the supreme court heard arguments on president obama's ability to make appointments during breaks within senate sessions. the case relates to obama's appointment of three officials to the national labor relations board without senate approval in 2012. a majority of justices appeared poised to curb obama's appointment powers. the supreme court has rejected a bid by arizona to revive a ban on abortion at 20 weeks, leaving locking a lower ruling the law. several other states have passed similar bans, but arizona's was considered the strictest because it took effect at 18 weeks post fertilization. mexico sending troops to the western state after self-defense groups took up arms against drug traffickers. the groups have taken control of several towns over the past week in an effort to oust the brutal cartel. they say they're defending their families. the unrest comes after a new investigation by mexican publisher -- newspaper confirmed u.s. drug agents negotiated extensively with mexican cartels in order to build cases against rival organizations. universal,to el agents for the drug enforcement administration met with a high level cartel more than 50 times in mexico between 2000 and 2012, allegedly without the knowledge of mexican authorities. the scandal surrounding new jersey governor chris christie is deepening amid reports of organization -- administration may have targeted other local rivals. last week christie ordered the firing of a top aide after she ordered the closure of lanes leading to the george washington bridge in order to punish the mayor of fort lee for declining to endorse risd's for governor. now documents released to jerseys city show christie's commissioners canceled meetings for that city's mayor after he declined to endorse christie, leaving the city without needed funds from the port authority. federal investigators have announced they will probe whether governor christie improperly used superstorm sandy relief money to fund a multimillion dollar tourism ad, featuring his family. new jersey democratic commerce member frank pallone said the funds could've been used out storm victims. >> i don't think there is any question that this was an effort to promote him, but the problem is him it was at the expense of money from the taxpayers that could've been used for other sandy purposes and i represent the area that was hardest hit by sandy and people are still looking for money now. i think it smells. >> nigeria's president has signed a harsh to anti-gay law. anyone who publicly demonstrates love toward a person of the same sex could face up to 10 years in prison. hasdge in new mexico cleared the way for doctors in the state to prescribe drugs to help terminally ill patients end their lives. judge nash wrote she could not "invision aright more fundamental, more private or more integral to the liberty, safety, and happiness of a new mexican than the right of a competent, terminally ill patient to choose aid in dying." new mexico's the fifth state to allow patients to seek aid in dying. and african-american transgender woman imprisoned for killing a man who reportedly harassed her has been released. served two thirds of her 41 month sentence for stabbing dean schmitz with a pair of scissors. supporters say she was the fitting herself against a group of people who attacked her with a part glass and hurled trans- phobic and racist slurs. mcdonald was held in men's prison, even though she hadn't advise as a woman. mcdonald beamed as she left prison, where she was greeted by supporters, including actress laverne cox from "orange is the new black." in a statement, the national gay lesbian task force said -- franklin mccain, one of the greens borough four, who's sitting at woolworth lunch counter in greensboro, north carolina helped catalyze the civil rights movement, has died at the age of 73. the group of four african- american college students sat down at the whites only counter on february 1, 1960, and refuse to leave. the next day, they return. within days, 300 people are taking part. this didn't help spark a wave of similar actions across the segregated south. today, two other members of the greensboro four are still alive. a third died in 1990. this is franklin mccain in a tribute video produced by the smithsonian's national museum of american history. >> i'm talking to you, the youth. >> i'm saying to you, all you have to do is lead, all you have yourselves to the wind, forget about caution and in the words of eric kaufman, become the true believer. my final words to you are, if you want to do something, don't wait for the masses because they ain't coming. died thursdaycain of respiratory complications at a hospital just a few miles from the old woolworth, which is now a civil rights museum. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with aaron maté. >> welcome to all our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. west virginia has begun partially lifting its ban on tap water five days after chemical spill in the elk river. war than 300,000 residents have been unable to use their water for tricking, cooking, or bathing since thursday when the company's freedom industries leaked up to 7500 gallons of mchm, and agent used in coal extraction. scores of schools and businesses have been closed, including the state capital charleston. on monday, west virginia governor tomblin announced chemical levels in the water supply are approaching safe levels, but said some residents will be without water for several more days. >> the numbers we have today look red, and we're finally at a point where they do not use order has been lifted in certain order -- areas. any the specific areas, flushing can begin. we've made a lot of progress, but i ask all west virginians to continue to be patient as we work to safely restore service to the affected areas. >> the ban has been lifted in four zones, but still in effect for vast majority of residents. dozens of people have been hospitalized since the spill. as of monday, at least 18 lawsuits have been filed against freedom industries and the water treatment company, american water. >> this bill is also having repercussions beyond west virginia. the elk river feeds into the ohio river, haunting areas of kentucky and ohio to shut down their water valves to avoid contamination. the freedom industries site behind this bill is just a mile upriver from the state's largest water treatment plant, owned by american water. but despite the obvious dangers to the source of 16% of west virginia's water supply, this bill has exposed major holes in how west virginia regulates the dangerous chemicals used in its leading industry -- cold. the chemical, and see him, does not receive close federal or state oversight. environmental inspectors have not visited the facility since 1991. under west virginia law, chemical storage facilities are not even subject to inspections. the plant also has no groundwater protection plan in place. in a moment we will speak with erin brockovich, the renowned environmentalist, consumer advocate, and legal researcher, wallace ago mother of three working as a legal assistant, she helped when the biggest class-action lawsuit in american history. the suit was against a multibillion dollar corporation, the california power company pacific gas and electric, for polluting a city's water supply. her story was told an oscar- winning film starring julia roberts in 2000 called " erin brockovich." today she and her team are investigating the major spill in the elk river, west virginia. she held a town hall meeting in charleston to discuss this bill with local residents. out the lastund inspection was done on this company and that tank farm was in 1991. erin brockovich >> that waserin brockovich speaking to west virginia residents in a town hall meeting monday night. she's joining us now from charleston, west virginia and also joined in washington by mike elk. he has extensively covered chemical regulations in the united states including at the west texas fertilizer plant where 50 people died in an explosion last year. we welcome you both to democracy now! let's start with erin brockovich . what did you find that the town hall meeting last night? >> good morning. >> it is great to have you with us. >> we were glad we got the town hold together on extremely short notice because we weren't even sure if we would have a facility here. for the folks that came out, i actually heard numerous stories that were disturbing at many levels, but they were mostly very calm. they were frustrated. they felt a sense they could not get through to anybody to give them further explanation. and then many, many questions that were excellent that needed answering. i think a couple of things that really startled me were photos that people had taken as the water had come on. the color. there was great concern from people who the water had already come on -- the smell. they said it was pretty overpowering. nobody told them about that. there were having to open windows, put up sans just to get the odor out. there was concerns of people who work with homeless groups that had not been getting bottled water and they were asking questions about -- they had been bathing in a because no one sent them bottled water. they had burns on her face. there were people who were showering at the time that still have some open source on their drink the water before the shutdown that still have some open wounds in their throat. ithink in every single case have been involved in, there is just a great deal of information down on the ground with folks that we really don't know about, we really don't talk much about, and after everything is said and done and everyone goes home, there -- they are still left with a whole host of problems that they find it difficult to get help with. >> a stunner past experience with major company polluting the city's water supply, i'm wondering if you had any advice for west virginia residents? >> well, we talked about that last night. yes, i do. i have zigzagged across the united states since that film came out 20 something years ago. we run into situations like this every single day. just not to the magnitude of a municipality being impacted and 300,000 people being rendered with no water. one thing is organization. i think -- i don't think, i see committees just feel helpless. they don't know how to get through to the local legislators . if they do, they get passed from one person to another. they can't get through. when there's a crisis, we all know it is difficult to get through. you can wait and wait and wait. they feel like there's nothing they can do. we have observed in this new world of social technology, they're actually very quite savvy on how they're going to exchange information, where they're going to learn information. there were people last night in the group that have artie started their own facebook pages . -- have already started their own facebook pages, connecting with other facebook people. they're able to see what is going on. they can reach out more to their community even if they're not in the community right at the moment. s andhere helping themselve gathering information from one who did here were got through to an agency. this is what they told them. and they post that. they are banding together stronger than i've ever seen it before. i think that is something that is very helpful to them to stay informed because when we have information that is empowering to us -- that is empowering just because were able to that or have control over our situation and what happens to us. so that is one thing that i observed again last night. in hinckley, it was the same way, but it was a smaller group. staying together that really made a difference. when you get thousands upon thousands, it is difficult for them to stay together, but they are doing it through social media. they will text each other. they will read something, get on notbook, and it helps them to have to go to the frustration of why a stub to me. >> erin brockovich, i want to play a clip of the president of freedom industries gary southern being confronted by reporter for the local abc affiliate wchs. >> look, guys, it has been an extremely long day. i'm having trouble talking at the moment. i would appreciate it if we could wrap this thing up. >> we actually have a lot of questions. it is been a long day for a lot of people who don't have water. can you give us an exact timeline as to how this all happened? as dep said earlier as early eight: 15 yesterday morning they were getting reports and that you all did not call it in and tell 12:00 noon. the dep was here at 11:15. what is the timeline? of the leakinge storage tank around 10:30. we load tanks of this material on a regular basis. occasionally, we have had reports of an odor previously. we were first aware of any material being spilled at 10:30 yesterday. >> could it have been earlier than yesterday? we have seen reports in our newsroom as possibly early as tuesday the people were smelling this. >> we have no information. place tore nothing in alert you of a leak at your facility other than a smell? >> at the moment in time, that's all we have time for. >> we have more questions. hey, hey, were not done. >> we're done. >> no. anyone else have any other questions? >> that is the president of freedom industries coming gary southern, being confronted by a local reporter in charleston, west virginia as he is drinking bottled water. it sounds a little reminiscent of the former bp ceo tony hayward in 2010 after the gulf oil spill as he drew attention to his own suffering. for havingsorry massive disruption that has cost the lives. there's no one who wants this thing over more than i do. i would like my life back. >> he wanted his life back. let's stay in charleston, west virginia with erin brockovich. we just heard mr. southern, the president of the company, i'm looking at paul barrett's piece in business week . how long has this outfit been around? he says about two weeks in its current form. freedom industries is a product of a merger effective december 31, 2013 a combined the facility where the leak occurred, and one nearby in nitro and a predecessor company called freedom industries was formed in 1986. how the pieces of the newly formed many conglomerate fit together, as is the question of whether there's any connection between the corporate mash-up in the fateful opening of a one inch that allowed a noxious chemical to escape, trying to get behind who is behind freedom industries and terry southern. -- gary southern. does this sound familiar to you, erin brockovich? gosh, i don't know where to begin. we deal with so many companies across the board. yes. i mean, a lot of things unfamiliar. attitudeone is this acrosss set in on safety the board. we can talk about the tennessee valley authority breach we were involved in the situation with texas brine in the sinkhole, you brought up bp, and now the situation west virginia. of large ones magnitude that we get to take a scope and look at. sometimes it is frustrating because i'm not sure we learn anything. i think we're at a critical point where we are going to have to begin to change how we do business and how we operate these facilities because they are everywhere. it is definitely something that we have seen before. there is a great deal of arrogance, not wanting to answer, especially a direct point that where you are overseeing -- why is it you didn't know? well, you didn't know because nobody was tending the farm, if you will. there is this almost mentality that we have seen, we saw with know, wheret untouchable. i'm not going to give you any answers. i really don't have to. we havav consistently and most of the work we have done. >> when we come back from break, we will continue this discussion with erin brockovich, talking to us from west virginia's capital. she is the renowned environmental it, consumer advocate, well-known because of "erinlm by the same name, brockovich" played by julia roberts, and remarkable work taking on pacific gas and electric, winning an unprecedented settlement of $333 million for the people of the town that had a similar situation, talking about contaminated water. we will be joined by mike elk. stay with us. ♪ [music break] >> this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with aaron maté. i went to go to mike elk and washington, d.c. the background here, no inspections at this plant since 1991, but the company did report this chemical to regulators earlier this year. how is that there was no oversight eating up to the spill? >> we're seeing the same problems we saw in west texas with half a dozen regulators in a potential oversight of this plant, but as the department of environmental protection's chief told ken ward of "charleston this one just fell through the cracks. that is what we heard after the texasext is -- west disaster. some knew about a groundwater permit they had at this plant. at this plant, they didn't have a sense of how many chemicals -- the water authority had no idea what was there. they had never communicated about it in the past. this is a major problem because the chemical safety board, which is a federal agency tasked with making recommendations on how to improve lance, three years ago in 2009, recommended the kanawha valley, which is where this plant is located, better coordinate among different agencies how to respond to these kinds of disasters. there was no plan in place. the local emergency responders did not know about the chemicals. the water plane did not know about the chemicals. there is no plan in place and no communication acquitted of a regulators and this is the problem we see over and over again. there is a lack of money going to regulation and other regulators that do exist, they don't talk. things fall through the cracks. from as turn to a clip video produced by a leigh mcmillan for the charleston daily mail talking about freedom industries, the company which owns the plant on the elk river where the leak occurred. contaminating the water supply of the west virginia's capital charleston and beyond. freedomed in 1986, industries produces chemicals for the mining, steel, and cement industries. the site of the leak is dedicated to storage with 4 million gallons of space available. the site doesn't require a permit from the dep since freedom doesn't make products there. officials in from the facility was never inspected by the dep before the leak. the dep issued a cease operations order friday and federal authorities are investigating freedom. there. elk, take it from how you feel this fits into a larger pattern. >> yesterday, the department of them permanent protections issued to complaints against freedom industries -- department of them permanent protections issued two complaints against freedom industries. a wall that could have prevented it from leaking, but it was so full of cracks, the head of the dep said he would be concerned if that was the foundation of his house. that is how bad the concrete was. already we have seen two charges filed against freedom industries. they have no plan in place. there will be a big criminal investigation going on. the person heading it up is the was attorney called booth goodwin who has gotten a lot of former massey energies officials convicted. he has artie announced he will open a big criminal investigation. yes people on the ground. it will be interesting to see what happens. unless there are serious jail time and consequences, i think it will be just another tragedy that is forgotten about. kate sheppard had a great post yesterday about different virginia democrats and many are kind of tempted about calling for new regulations, just like we saw in west, texas. this is an uphill climb. >> what has happened since the west, texas explosion? 50 people were killed. was there any movement of regulation? >> the west, texas disaster happened last april. it was a major explosion that killed 15 people, similar situation -- there weren't proper safety measures and lays at the plant, the planted not register with the proper authorities, just a history of violations at this plant and lack of inspections. what happened is there were about six or seven different regulators going to the west texas plant for different information but they weren't communicating. obama formed a chemical safety task force to look at how you could change to medications and changeion -- could communication between regulators. they're coming up with ways. the work has been too slow. it is been nearly 10 months and yet were still repeating the same mistakes of west, texas. in this case, 300,000 people were put a potential risk and could still very much be at risk from these chemicals. we don't know with these chemicals cause. we don't know the long-term effects are the effects it might have on cancer 30 years from now. >> mike, how does the obama administration compare with the bush administration when it comes to environmental regulation? >> i think in some ways, they've been tougher on coal and these other things, but when it comes to the issue of workplace safety, they haven't been proactive on it. it is like any other issue of workers rights, this administration could really care less about saying anything about it in public. we haven't seen the president address and a major way what is a big crisis. the question is, will this change it? i think is quite scary that 300,000 people could not get water. can you imagine being in that town? having no water and working night and day? i can imagine that as a reporter. that is terrifying. maybe he will lead to some change, but like robert byrd said, following each workplace safety disaster, typically, people cry, get upset about it, once the outrages gone, nothing happens. >> erin brockovich, you have gone to west virginia from california with a team of people to investigate. now the state is beginning to partially lift the ban on tap water five days after the chemical spill in the elk river. how do people trust it? how do people believe they should be able to drink their water? how do they know? >> they don't. i've said several times, it's a disaster of a very large magnitude. turning the municipal system back on is not an easy process. they will be step-by-step. there will be problems, and we may see the worst of this yet. we started to see some of that last from people at the meeting. the color of the water, even after their flushing, the color of the water, the smell of the water, of people saying they are experiencing -- whether it be headaches or burning eyes are burning throws, and this is always a concern for people because we don't know what we're drinking. they don't trust the fact that there is this one ppm separate us chemical, a chemical rube really don't know a whole lot about. we set these levels based on a 40-year-old healthy white male. we do not take into consideration that that level they clearly not be safe for elderly person or somebody recovering from chemotherapy or with a weakened immune system and certainly young children. so people we have talked to around town, we have visited with in the hospitals last night at the meeting, they don't trust this. that is a big concern for them. that is the key word come a that there is this lack of trust. this is why we get so many people coming to us. i just don't know that we see the bigger picture. this is happening not necessarily to this scale, but in every single state in the united states, sometimes community after community within the same state there was -- >> before we go, i want to play a clip of the trailer for the academy award-winning film about you and your fight, to remind people how serious these issues are, but also the possibility of what it means to win and what does winning mean and people lose their lives and get sick. >> you have no actual training. >> i have kids. learned a lot right there. i'm good with people. i'm an extremely fast learner. you have a really nice office. >> look -- >> you want my number. how about this for a number, 6. 8 is the age of my son. two is a many times i've been divorced. 60 minutes number of dollars i have a month inc. account. >> i'm glad we got that out of the way because i didn't find you attractive either. but i'm smart, hard-working and older anything and i'm not leaving here without a job. >> and our law firm, you may want to rethink the wardrobe a little bit. >> well, as long as i have one , ieep] instead of tubing will wear what i want. you might want to rethink those ties. why are there blood samples and real estate files? >> what makes you think you can walk in there and find what we need? ask their called boobs, ed. can be harmful. >> so it kills people. >> your lawyer? >> i hate lawyers, i just work for them. don't talk to me like i'm an idiot. >> i think we got off on the wrong foot. that's all you've got, lady, two left feet and ugly shoes. for the first time in my life, i've got people respecting me. please, don't ask me to give it up. >> you make things personal and it isn't. >> that is my work. my sweat, my time away from kids. if that's not personal, i don't know what is. >> how did you do this? >> seems i have no brains or legal expertise, i just performed 630 for sexual favors. i'm really quite tired. >> $20 million is more money than these people ever dreamed of. ask these people don't dream about being rich, they dream about being able to watch their kids swim in a pool without worrying that they'll have to have a hysterectomy at the age of 20. ottowa, we had that water brought in special for you folks. way, we had that water brought in special for you folks. >> erin brockovich, as we wrap up, what you learned from that -- as you move forward helping people around the country, what you think needs to be done? >> well, we definitely have a lot of holes. i think one thing that has been missing is something i learned then and i continue to learn and i continued to try to help people, they do know. they do dream of a safe place to live. i think we have disconnected and really forgotten what is important. they're learning here in west virginia. that is water. the scarcity of it, the pollution of it, the attitude we're getting about protecting it. and their health. they're forgetting they have a voice, too. it is those people and hinckley along with fellow of our house that made a difference because they no longer were afraid to speak up about what was important to them and use their voice and stand up, become proactive, say and do something and push for change and push for a better world for not just for them, but for those elite behind. -- but for those they leave behind. that is the continual message, even 20 or later. i think the time has really come where we need to redress what our priorities are, the importance of our health, the value of our family, and just how precious water is because without it, it is not a game changer, it is a game and are for all of us. >> erin brockovich, thank you for being with us, renowned and firm and list the consumer advocate, legal researcher. i also want to thank mike elk for joining us from washington, d.c. from a labor reporter for "in these times" magazine. when we come back, "dog whistle politics: how coded racial appeals have reinvented racism & wrecked the middle class." we will be speaking with professor ian haney lopez. stay with us. ♪ [music break] >> this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with aaron maté. the 47 million people who rely on food stamps in the u.s. are facing her second try the less than three months. in what critics dubbed the hunger cliff, automatic budget cuts meant the loss of $5 billion from the federal nutrition program in november, which is $36 per month for a family of four. more cuts are on the way as lawmakers finalize a new farm bill that stalled in congress last year. it's widely reported the plan will cut another $9 billion from food stamps over the next decade, depriving more than 800,000 households of up to $90 in aid per month. according to the center and budget policy parties, food stamps now average less than $1.40 per person, per meal this year. the new proposal represents a compromise between a republican plan to cut food stamps i $39 billion in a democratic plan to cut them by $4 billion. the new cuts would follow another major blow to those relying on government assistance for the congressional failure to extend the unemployment benefits that expired last month. >> cuts to social programs are old hat in u.s. politics, and were joined now by an author whose new book explores one of the key ways that's come to be known. the book is called, "dog whistle politics: how coded racial appeals have reinvented racism & wrecked the middle class." law professor ian haney lopez explored how politicians have long used filled racism to lure white voters into supporting politics that favor the wealthy and hurt the poor and middle class across ethnic lines. professor lopez traces this trajectory from the southern strategy that emerged in the 1960's to the reagan-led attacks on welfare in the 1980's, continued under president clinton a decade later. he explores how dog whistle politics remain today from the immigration of muslims and latino immigrants to bolster the national security state, to the use of old stereotypes to preserve long-standing attacks on social welfare. a lawney lopez is professor at the university of california, berkeley, focusing on the area of racial justice in u.s. legal system. he also may be one of the only few people who can lay claim to being a classmate of president obama's on two separate occasions -- in high school in hawaii, and years later as law students at harvard law school. welcome to democracy now! talk about the title "dog whistle politics." >> it is a term out there in the conversation, but i don't think the meaning has jailed. it says, look, politics is occurring and coded terms like a dog whistle. on one level, we hear clearly -- racial a sense of agitation, and then on the other side, nothing about race at all. newt gingrich is saying obama is a food stamp president. reagan and the welfare queens. that is triggering racial sentiment, anxiety. on another, newt gingrich can turn around and say, i didn't mention race, i just said food stamps. he can go further and say, it's a fact, as if there's some sort of racial undertone. >> in the 2012 republican primary, newt gingrich was widely accused of employing the so-called southern strategy to appeal to the prejudices of white voters in the south. at republican debate, fox news moderator juan williams question newt gingrich about his description of president obama as the foodstamp resident. that more people have been put on food stamps by barack obama than any president in american history. [applause] now, i know among the politically correct, and i'm supposed to use facts that are in current -- were not supposed to use facts that are in comfortable. >> that was newt gingrich. >> people have a sense the sort of politics is out there, but they also think it is marginal, maybe a throwback to sort of old southern race dating from 50 years ago. the point of this book is to say, this is in this digital, this is central to republican politics today and this is how conservatives are wrecking the middle class. they're using these coded appeals to say to people two things. one, the biggest threat in her life is not concentrated wealth, it is minorities. two, government coddles minorities and all these government assistance programs, it's all about giveaways to minorities -- oppose them. governments taking more taxes and giving it to undeserving minorities. when we think about why do so many people in the midst of an economic crisis would vote to slash taxes for the rich, to favor deregulation and slash social services, i was a primarily they're doing so because of the racial narrative employed with dog whistle politics. >> this started bipartisan with george wallace who was a democrat, and also with very goldwater, a republican. can you talk about these two campaigns back in the 1960's? >> is important to know it starts with george wallace in the sense of saying, listen, there is nothing inherent in republicanism that is associated with racism. we need to be very clear about that. in 1960 before all of this really got under way, 29% of african-americans identified as republicans. 1960 -- both in parties in 1960 were similarly supportive of civil rights. but politicians begin to look around for a way to get elected, baitingy realize race- can do that. he of wallace, running as a racial moderate in 1968 and loses. has thisloses, he incredible moment where he is about to give his concession speech and he turns to is cronies and says, no other son of a bitch is going to out nigger me again. what he means is he is going to run as a racial reactionary. and when he does, he wins. it is this moment where it becomes clear to me using race can help you win elections. it goes from george wallace to very goldwater. he uses race and loses nationally, but wins in the south. are stepping inherent in republicanism, but it becomes a tactic that is most closely associated with republicans. >> let's go to 1980 speech in mississippi, ronald reagan, just a few miles from philadelphia, mississippi, the site of the 1964 murders of the civil rights activists. this was ronald reagan's first speech after accepting the republican nomination for president. he proclaimed his fidelity to states rights. >> i believe in states rights. i live in people doing as much as they can for themselves. i believe we have distorted the balance of our government today by giving powers that were never intended to the constitution to the federal establishment. >> states rights. before he responded that, i want to bring it up to today. this is republican senator marco rubio fortis begin just last week when he outlined sweeping changes to the federal government's anti-poverty programs. >> our current president and his liberal allies, with the proposed to address is their proposal is, let's spend more on these failed programs and increase the minimum wage to $10.10. really? this is their solution to with the president has called the defining issue of our time? maypolethe minimum wage well, but having a job that pays $10 an hour is not the american dream. our current government programs at best offer only a partial solution. they help people deal with poverty, but they do not help people emerge from poverty. what i'm proposing today is the most fundamental change to how the federal government fights poverty and encourages upward mobility since president johnson first conceived the war on poverty 50 years ago today. i am proposing that we turn over washington's anti-poverty programs in the joined and spent on them to the states. our anti-poverty program should be replaced with a revenue neutral flex fund which would streamline the most of our existing federal anti-poverty funding into a single agency. then each are these flex funds would be transferred to the states so they can design and fund a creative initiatives that address the factors behind inequality of opportunity. 1990's with the welfare reform. >> that is republican senator marco rubio. after president ronald reagan. >> i think states rights is operating on a couple of different levels. first, we should be clear when reagan talks about states rights, he's picking up very goldwater. very goldwater campaign in the south in 1960 forcing states rights. and everybody understood that states rights meant the right of southern states to resist integration. now when reagan campaigns using the same term in 1980, that is just 16 years after the civil rights workers had been slain there. there isn't a voter alive in that town who had been alive in the civil workers were killed. read a states rights, it is a clear dog whistle saying, i understand this term is about the ability of whites to resist integration. on one level, we have states rights which is a clear sort of signal of opposition to integration. the dynamic i think that is really being picked up by marco rubio, states rights is also way of saying, we will devolve power over social justice programs, over safety net programs to the states because we know the states will use that to restrict these programs to whites. that was the compromise that fdr and the democrats made with the southern democrats in the new deal, that major the new deal program did not help african- americans and did not help latinos. it was a compromise that clinton made in the 1990's, now the republican policy. if you want to see that in operation, think about the affordable care act and medicaid. , southern the south states are refusing to extend medicaid to the poor ash even though it would not cost them a dime. we know what happens if we devolve social safety net programs to the state. states with an ugly racial history will use it in order to set a floor that effectively poor or ensures that minorities are not helped, even if that means the poor in general aren't helped. >> i want to turn to lee atwater, one of the leading gop strategists of the 1980's. he ran george h.w. bush's successful campaign in 1988 and later served as the chair of the rnc. this is a clip from an interview that took place in 1981, but the audio only service two decades but are. atwater expense for republican candidates can win over white voters by appealing to racist views with coded language. a warning to our audience, he uses the 'n'word multiple times. >> [indiscernible] it is a psychologist, which i'm not. is how abstract you handle the races. you start out -- now you are quoting me on this. you start out in 1954 by sayingnigger, nigger, nigger. by 1968, you can't say nigger, so you say states rights and all that stuff. you get so abstract now that you're talking about cutting taxes and all of these things you're talking about are totally economic things and the byproducts [indiscernible] subconsciously, maybe that is part of it. what i'm saying is that if it is getting that abstract and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other, you follow me? sitting around we want to cut taxes, we want to cut this and we want as much more abstract and even the busing thing, a hell of a lot more abstract than nigger nigger. anyway you look at it, raises coming on the back burner. >> that is lee atwater speaking in 1981. he went on to run the campaign for george h.w. bush that surprisingly beat dukakis when dukakis was favored come using a lot of extreme racial imagery like willie thorton. >> i want to talk about that, but i want to backup. the atwater quote is so powerful. atwater says, you start in the 1950's saying nigger, nigger, nigger. that is important. we're not saying race has entered politics recently, we are racism has been central to the mac and politics for centuries, but it has changed form. after the civil rights movement, you could not use open slurs like that. it is political suicide now for any politician use an open racial slur. so the new public racism is coded. it always operates on two levels. on one level, triggering racial anxiety. on another, allowing plausible deniability. atwater traces the evolution. he says from nigger, nigger, nigger to states rights to forced busing to cutting taxes. why would cutting taxes operate as a dog whistle? it does so because it comes under this background understanding the government is really about helping poor minorities, right? it is this sense that my taxes are hard-working white person are being taken to pay for these undeserving minorities. that is the way in which you can have this republican sort of drum beat, the solution to all of our problems is to cut taxes. it is coming against this background that taxes are somehow being hijacked and siphoned off to undeserving minorities. that is pretty subtle. back to lee atwater and george bush. george bush was behind in the .olls running against dukakis lee atwater came up with this person, willie horton, convicted murderer in massachusetts, released on furlough. dukakis -- >> let's go to the add. especially for people who are young enough to not be familiar with it, the willie horton condy african-american convict who committed rape and assault after being released from prison under we can furlough program in massachusetts. his menacing mug shot was featured prominently on the screen in what was widely seen as an attempt to appeal racially charged fears of white voters. it wasn't directly sponsored by the bush campaign, but many credited the brainchild of campaign manager lee atwater. >> bush and dukakis on crime. bush supports the death penalty for first-degree murderers. two caulk is not only opposes the death penalty, he allowed first-degree murder staff weekend passes from prison. one was willie horton who murdered a boy and a robbery stabbing him 19 times. despite a life sentence, porton received 10 weekend passes from prison. he fled, kidnapped a young couple, stabbing the man and repeatedly raping his girlfriend. we can prison passes, dukakis on crime. >> that and changed history. >> absolutely because the guy george bush elected. a couple of quick points, never mentioned race on the surface but fairly triggered racial anxiety and yet the media took three years before they would believe that was the racial dog whistle. we constantly lack in our appreciation of dog whistles which are constantly evolving. two, the point of this sort of analysis is not to say, hey, there's a lot of racism against minorities. yes, that is a problem, but what is core here is the sort of racism is being used to fool a lot of whites into voting for republicans whose main allegiance is the corporate interest. i really want to emphasize this point. this is about race, but it is about race as it affects all of us. race as it racks the whole middle class. >> we are going to leave it there, but people don't have to leave it there, you can read ian haney lopez's book, "dog whistle politics: how coded racial appeals have reinvented racism & wrecked the middle class." we will be broadcasting from tokyo, japan wednesday through friday, speaking in tokyo on saturday at the university. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comments to outreach@democracynow.org or mail them to democracy now! p.o. box 693 new york, new york 10013. [captioning made possible by democracy now!] august 9, 1999. on december 8, 1997. november 30, 2002. i was hit by a drunk driver. i lost both of my legs. a stranger tried to kill me with a hammer. our 7-year-old son, evan, was murdered after signing up for basketball. i was severely beaten in a hate crime. i was raped. when your child is murdered, it's devastating. you have to re-think life again. it just keeps on running over and over in my head all the time. while i was in the hospital, a friend told me about victims' services. they helped me with my medical expenses. they helped me with counseling. a victims' advocate stood by us through the court process. victim assistance paid all my hospital bills. i needed them to fight for me while i was fighting for my life. with the right help, you can move on with your life. i will dance the salsa again. justice isn't served until crime victims are. the eye, which is the window of the soul,