unsurprised to hear, argues no. what they have to say tonight. welcome back. two of america's favorites get down and dirty and political. >> i'm not going to tell you who i'm going to vote for, but -- >> the middle east. >> the foundation of our faith is based out of israel. >> and if this country is ready for a mormon president. >> we're not electing a pastor of the nation. we're electing a leader and who can best lead. >> returning, the only guest who ever bothers to pray for me. >> i say he's the nicest guy. >> joel and victoria osteen. and wyclef jean on romney's 47% comment. >> the government still plays a crucial part of what we do. >> this is "piers morgan tonight." good evening. our big story tonight, mitt romney's meltdown. the storm over the candidate's remarks recorded at a private fund-raising event in may shows no sign of blowing over. >> these are people who pay no income tax. 47% of americans pay no income tax so our message of low taxes doesn't connect. they'll be out there talking about tax cuts for the rich. that's what they celebrate every four years. so my job is not to worry about those people. i'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives. >> the white house has responded with full barrels. listen to what the president told david letterman tonight. >> one of the things i've learned as president is you represent the entire country. >> just how bad is all this for mitt romney? is it really good for the president? joining me is senate majority whip, dick durbin. thank you for joining me. are you guys rubbing your hands with glee? do you think it's a game-changing moment in this election battle? >> it's certainly an insight into the mind of mitt romney. this was a moment when he was speaking to his closest friends and supporters and he really writes off almost half of america as people without personal responsibility, who view themselves as victims. it wasn't too much of a surprise, really. he was the one who said corporations are persons and the gaffes along the way really kind of lean to a lifestyle that most middle income americans just would never appreciate or certainly wouldn't understand. so i think it's further insight into romney and his values. >> he is trying to sort of spin this as well, it's just an illustration albeit clumsily phrased of the message we are trying to ram home. listen to what he told fox news earlier. >> this is a message i'm carrying day in and day out and will carry over the coming months, which is this is a decision about the course of america, and where we're going to head, and we've seen the president's policies play out over the last four years. >> if that had been his only reaction, then perhaps he may have got a bit of escape route out of this but last night looked like he was panicking, he raced to the cameras, he looked a little bit beleaguered when he did that. clearly, judging by the way the polls are moving, and the general mood about mitt romney, he's in trouble now, isn't he? >> well, certainly he's talking himself into trouble. last night, remember what he said, that was inelegant, the way i expressed it. well, i would have said well, you had some time to think about it, add your fair share of elegance to your statement, and tell us what you really meant. i'm afraid what we're hearing from him is basically he thinks people, working families that send their kids off to college with a government loan are somehow victims, have a mindset that they're victims or those that are drawing medicare after paying into it for a lifetime don't have personal responsibility? i mean, that doesn't sound to me like a good understanding of what the struggle is in america for so many working families who are doing their best to take care of their kids and plan for their future. >> we also saw after the appalling events in libya a few days ago, a kind of spontaneous and perhaps very ill-advised spontaneous reaction from mitt romney by sort of common agreement that he jumped in very quickly to attack the president at a time when it may have been more prudent to have just backed off, waited for the facts and supported the president and the country through that period. what of that and his comments in the video about the palestinians where he kind of lays the blame at their feet completely, it seems, against israel? what do you think about his hand on the foreign policy tiller? >> well, he's certainly been bumbling when it comes to domestic policy and way beyond his element and comfort level when it comes to foreign policy. i mean, how can you visit england, our trusted ally, and say something that was so outrageous that it turns the british people against him and the comments he made about the olympics. it was just a ham-handed approach to something that should have been a very easy assignment for even a presidential candidate. >> i think the problem with that was, i was in england at the time and of course, everyone in england was saying exactly the same thing as mitt romney. it's just a bit like going to somebody's house and saying you don't like their curtains. it's not for him to say. for now, thank you very much. >> good to be with you. now we go to one of mitt romney's strongest advocates and outspoken voice in the republican party. donald trump joins me on the phone. how are you? >> hello, piers. >> your man's in a little trouble. he's dug himself a monumental hole. >> no, i don't think so at all. i think people like to say that. i don't think so at all. it's a debate that has to be had. i guess he brought it out into the open but i don't think so at all and i don't think he should be apologizing for anything. and they should just continue on with the polls, they're showing very close. it will be a tight race no matter how you look at it but it's a point of view and it's probably something that they have to have out at some point. >> are the media making too much of this, do you think? >> yes, absolutely. they make a big deal out of it and frankly, he's been saying similar things on the campaign stump. he's been going out and he's been discussing this. this is something that has to be discussed, and as you know, there are tremendous numbers of people, whether it's 47% or close to 50%, that don't pay taxes and don't pay income taxes, and probably lots of other taxes, so this is really a discussion and a debate and it has to go forward. and let's see how it ends up. >> one of the problems, it seems to me, if you actually analyze the 47% who supposedly don't pay tax in the way that he put it, many of them reside in states that are supportive to mitt romney, so it's a real shoot yourself in the foot moment, isn't it? >> i don't think so. i think it's really something and a point that is going to be discussed over the next 50 days, and there are two sides to it, and it's come out and a lot of people wanted it to come out, because they really feel that it's a very, very vital thing. it has to be discussed. >> you have always been somebody who calls a spade a spade, and i'm sure that you have been talking to mitt romney. he's clearly having a rocky time in this campaign. everyone can see that. what advice do you give him to get things back on track? do you want to see him go harder at barack obama? >> well, i have to think that it's been a pretty rough period because everything he says, they attack him and i think he's going to have to get very tough and frankly, he's got to fight fire with fire. they're blaming him for egypt, okay? this is a beauty. they blamed him the other day for egypt. now, egypt's blowing up with a horrible foreign policy that we had, and they actually put the blame on mitt romney. i said what did he have to do with egypt? it really is, it's a nasty campaign and honestly, mitt is going to have to be both very smart, which he is, and very nasty, which frankly, he's not. and he's got to get that way because they are coming at him with all barrels loaded and he's going to have to get that way and very quickly, in my opinion. when i see what happened with, as an example, the memo or the statement he made having to do with libya, and having to do with other things, having to do with egypt, and he's getting blamed for all this, it's incredible. he has nothing to do with it. >> part of his problem, donald, it seems, is he seems to have this inability to talk in a way that people find relatable to the common man and woman in america. i don't know if it's appropriate for you to get into this because you are a very rich guy, much richer than mitt romney but you always had the ability to communicate with the poorer man on the streets. i have been around you and they all seem to relate to you. how can he work on that? how can he improve the way he relates to people? >> you know, as you know better than anyone, i just want to congratulate you because i'm just hearing great things about your show and how well you're doing and i'm very proud of you, because of your success on the "apprentice." every time i watch i'm proud of you. but i have to say that you are born a certain way. he's a gentleman, he's a very smart guy. i think he can be a very tough guy and i think he's somebody that will make a great president. that doesn't mean he's going to be a great campaigner, but he will be a great president. there are very, very different abilities and i really think ultimately, people will see through all of this, but he's being blamed for things that he has nothing to do with, and he frankly, you know, the statement that he made, the recent statement that's causing all this fuss, it's being built up, built up by the media, built up by the obama folks, and i don't blame them for doing it. i blame the media but i don't blame the obama folks if they can get away with it for doing exactly what they're doing. but i really think that mitt can handle pressure well. that was proven to me during the debates, if you remember, in florida. he went into florida having to win the debates, having to win florida. he was in trouble. he won both debates easily and he did a fantastic job. i actually told him it was the best political week of his life. he did a fantastic job. he won florida and then he took it from there. he's very good under pressure. i think that the debates and especially the first debate will be vital to both sides. you know, don't forget, you're talking about mitt. the fact is most of the polls have him just about even right now and in some cases, they have mitt up and in some cases, they have the president up, but it's a very, very close race. and i have a feeling he's going to react very well under pressure, as he did in florida, piers. >> have you spoken to him since this whole secret video story blew up? >> i have. >> how was he? >> i think he's fine. it's a debate that is going to be had and it's a debate that should be had, and people are going to be talking about it and i think that's a good thing, not a bad thing. >> do you still believe fundamentally that mitt romney can win this election, donald? >> well, absolutely. look at the polls. they're showing even. he's up in north carolina. he's about even or maybe even winning in florida. he's slightly down in ohio. absolutely i think he can, and i think the other side believes he can and frankly, a lot's going to happen over the next 50 days. don't forget, he saved his money and they're going to do a massive campaign, whereas president obama has spent much of his money already, but they have been very i think wisely, now, time will tell, i'll tell you in about 51 days, but they have been i think very wisely save their money and now you're going to have a blitz. let's see how that works. let's see how it comes out but they have a tremendous amount of money which they haven't spent, the other side has spent a lot of its money. >> do you think that it's fair that super pacs can spend tens of millions of dollars and therefore, the one with the most money can, if they're smart, effectively buy an election? >> well, number one, i don't think you can buy the election. but it doesn't matter what i think. the supreme court said it was fine. so you have people on the supreme court, they voted in favor of that, so you know, it's irrelevant what i think. but the court certainly said it was fine. >> from your conversation with mitt romney, he's a bit battered but not beaten? >> oh, no. just the opposite. i think he's really ready now to start going, and i think you're going to see somebody, remember what i said. some people, and i have known many, many people. you happen to be one of them. you reacted very well under pressure and i got to know you very much under pressure. some people react very well under pressure. most people don't. mitt romney reacted very, very well under pressure and that was during, in particular, florida, he had to win that state. otherwise it was over. not only did he win the debates and newt is very tough and very good as a debater, and he won the debates and he won florida. that was under great stress, under great pressure. so let's see how he does. i think you'll be very surprised. >> donald trump, thank you for joining me. >> thank you very much, piers. >> donald trump not the only one fired up about this. when we come back, political all-stars go toe-to-toe. i predict this will get lively. 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[ male announcer ] yes, it is, business pro. yes, it is. go national. go like a pro. i don't know what he was referring to, but i can tell you this. when i won in 2008, 47% of the american people voted for john mccain. they didn't vote for me. and what i said on election night was even though you didn't vote for me, i hear your voices and i'm going to work as hard as i can to be your president, and one of the things i've learned as president is you represent the entire country. >> president obama talking to david letterman tonight, two very articulate people on opposite sides of this debate. "new york times" columnist david groh. on the face of it, this is a monumental gaffe by mitt romney because whichever way you try to spin it, it's basically calling half of america a bunch of scrounging victims. >> romney must have honey on his toes because he can't keep his foot out of his mouth. there is no way for mitt romney to walk back what he has said. he has basically said, there are a couple words that stand out. victim, right? when you talk about casual observe observers, these are not people who read the "new york times" and "washington post" every day. they will glance by news and see snippets on television. these things stand out, calling 47% of americans victims who are dependent on government. also saying, and this is think is a pivotal part of that clip, is it is not my job to worry about these people. >> michael gerson, it's very, very hard to defend this, isn't it? if you're in the romney camp, it comes off the back of another couple major gaffes by common consensus major gaffes, including the libyan, way he behaved over that attack. when you are in that camp now, what do you do? how do you get him out of this hole? >> well, there are only a couple of responses in a case like this, because it's hard to disagree with that analysis of this quote. you say what i really meant to say was and that's what he's done. i really meant to say government's too large and will bankrupt the country and try to get it back to a more sustainable ideological argument until the press moves on to the next thing, or you can say i was wrong, at least in part, which maybe is what he should say here. the government is too large but the reality here is that most people want to improve their own lives and i'm going to appeal to everyone and i made a mistake. i don't think politicians do that enough. >> there's a new "wall street journal" poll tonight and nbc news combined with them gives the president his highest job approval rating since march at 50%. it also shows mr. romney among likely voters, 50% to 45% so 5% clear lead with just two weeks before the campaign hits a major landmark with the first debate. if you're mitt romney, you are in big trouble now. there's no way of saying you're not. you're in big trouble. what is he going to do? >> what does he have to do? >> i know you don't want him to do it. what does he have to do politically? >> well, i kind of agree with the idea that you do have to say go closer to an apology if not outright apologize. but even if you do that, there's a problem with that because the whole statement rests on the idea that obama has a base that is near half of the electorate so if he starts to back away and say i didn't mean the whole 47%, i meant like 20%, i meant 30%, then the whole argument falls apart so then you did mean to say exactly what you said. you were basically saying that there is a part of the electorate that is almost at a winning percentage that will vote for this president regardless because they feel they are victims and they are parasitic and that is a problem, i don't know how you fix this. every time i see him on television, the first press conference and interviews on fox news, neither one of those things -- it's almost better to just say nothing if he was going to do what he did. >> isn't the real problem for mitt romney is this lends succor to the argument that he is two-faced when it comes to principles and his political views? >> i think the worst kind of gaffes are the ones that confirm a stereotype. that was true of obama, with the they cling to guns and religion, he was seen as an elitist. i think it was true of george w. bush when the old dui came out where he seemed irresponsible. sometimes these aren't always fatal but they contribute to an image and it's a bad one. i think the best way for romney to combat that going forward is to actually have some policy to say about the mobility and advancement for the aspiring poor, to prove that you actually care about everyone by proposing policies that appeal to unexpected groups. the campaign hasn't done very much of that. they said they were going to make a pivot to be more policy oriented. i think that's one way to help get beyond that is to prove you care about the whole country by proposing some policy that appeals to the whole country. >> charles blow, the problem it seems to me, he believed the economy was his strong point and what barack obama has quite skillfully done i think with his team is attack him on his strong point, trying to portray bain as a murderous rampaging capitalist beast chucking people on the sword and now you have this situation. i will play a new obama ad which basically sums up how he will attack him. it's very, very damaging. watch this. >> so my job is not to worry about those people. i will never convince them. >> wow. >> i actually felt sick to my stomach. >> i don't like it. >> it shows that he's out of touch, that if he thinks half of the country is feeling like victims. >> victims, i wouldn't say so. i don't think that's part of the american fabric. >> we touched a little earlier on the victim thing. also, he had these other remarks about the palestinians and how they were basically going to be a block to any kind of peace over there. he's touched on the foreign policy aspect as we have seen with the libya gaffe and now this, it's pretty unsteady as it is and now in his own backyard of the economy, he suddenly looks vulnerable. >> well, the latest rounds of polls have basically said -- shown that obama is eating away at his edge on the economy which is bad news for him. i don't think it's necessarily right to cast it as the obama campaign making bain out to be villainous. there were parts of what bain did that were not helpful to people who were actually everyday workers. this is a fact. >> there's also a fact that many of the things bain did were successful turn-around of companies. >> right. it depends on what you call success. if it is making money for the investors of bain, yes, incredibly successful. if as mitt has basically made his campaign out to be, i am a job creator, i know how to create jobs, well, that is a very much more mixed picture and the obama campaign is pointing that out. they are not making those facts up. that is a very real thing. the other part of the economic issue is that mitt romney has taken advantage of a lot of tax loopholes that we know of and he won't release the other information we don't, about back taxes. he won't release those so we don't even know if mitt romney might be one of the people who didn't pay taxes that he's now slamming as part of the 47%. that's the problem for mitt romney. mitt romney made this problem. the obama campaign is basically just taking advantage of it. >> michael gerson, final word for you. obviously they are going to be in the bunker tonight thinking oh, my god, how do we get out of this, but there are ways to get out of it and we don't know quite what their strategy will be. do you think as things stand, that mitt romney can still win this election? >> oh, i think so. i think the president consistently at 50% or below in approval rating is a danger sign. presidents generally need to be in the very high 40s or low 50s in order to be re-elected. george bush was an exception in 2004, he was at 48% at his re-election. it's still a very tight race. you have 50 days. the problem is, this is a time when they need traction, when in fact they have a distraction. so i think this is wasting time. it's not only adding to a destructive stereotype, it's actually allowing them or not allowing them to gain some traction at a time that's really essential. >> michael gerson, charles blow, thank you both very much. coming up, politics and prayer. how does faith factor into the race for president? i'll ask two of america's best-known pastors, joel and victoria osteen. i'm so glad you called. thank you. we're not in london, are we? no. why? apparently my debit card is. what? i know. don't worry, we have cancelled your old card. great. thank you. in addition to us monitoring your accounts for unusual activity, you could also set up free account alerts. okay. [ female announcer ] at wells fargo we're working around the clock to help protect your money and financial information. here's your temporary card. welcome back. how was london? [ female announcer ] wells fargo. together we'll go far. but i'm still stubbed up. [ male announcer ] truth is, nyquil doesn't unstuff your nose. what? [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus liquid gels speeds relief to your worst cold symptoms plus has a decongestant for your stuffy nose. thanks. that's the cold truth! and the candidate's speech is in pieces all over the district. the writer's desktop and the coordinator's phone are working on a joke with local color. the secure cloud just received a revised intro from the strategist's tablet. and while i make my way into the venue, the candidate will be rehearsing off of his phone. [ candidate ] and thanks to every young face i see out there. [ woman ] his phone is one of his biggest supporters. 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[ female announcer ] with cisco at the center... ♪ chirping beeping camera ahhhh drill sound chirping electric shaver shaking remote tapping sound shaking drill chirping tapping shaking remote wouldn't it be great to have one less battery to worry about? car honking irping the 2012 sonata hybrid. the only hybrid with a lifetime hybrid battery warranty. from hyundai. i declare every person under the sound of my voice is blessed. >> joel osteen in miami in 2010. here's his wife victoria speaking the language of millions of americans when it comes to matters of faith but how about politics? they are pastors of lakewood church in houston and the new book is "i declare, 31 promises to speak over your life." joining me exclusively, joel and victoria osteen. welcome back. i feel like we're old friends now. >> i know. good to see you again. >> the worse i treat you, the more you come back for more. i like that. >> everybody thinks you're mean. i say he's the nicest guy. >> don't ruin my reputation. i know what you'll say to my first question. you'll say look, i never get involved in politics, it's your pat answer. but given the evangelical vote is so important to both barack obama and mitt romney, what do you say to your flock when they come and see you and say look, joel, i can't work out who to vote for, what do you say to them? >> well, piers, i just go back to a central theme of encouraging everybody to vote, to search their own heart, because it's interesting, good people of faith can read the scripture and interpret it differently. i have democrats and republicans in our church that love the lord, you know, that couldn't be any better people but they just, you know, different issues speak to them. >> the president, though, is a conventional christian. mitt romney is a mormon. and there are fundamental differences. the holy trinity definition in both is very, very different. the mormons believe there are the father, son and holy spirit. obviously the christian faith believes they're all the same thing. how do you deal with that? surely your natural leaning would be towards the guy that believes the same that you do. >> i think you're right in that instance. i think also, though, you look at the whole totality of the person and not just their faith, although their faith is important because it tells me their values and their characters, but i think as practical americans and as practical followers of christ, you look at their business experience and other areas as well. i like that saying that we're not just -- we're not electing a pastor of the nation, we're electing a leader and who can best lead. >> victoria, who do you prefer more? who is more charismatic to you? >> i think they're both amazing men. that's just going to have -- to people who are undecided, i would say to them watch the debates, learn as much as you can, and then vote. and i would definitely say vote, because everyone needs to vote. that's what makes this country a great country. i will definitely be voting. >> are you undecided? >> am i undecided? no. >> you have decided? >> well, i'm going to really enjoy watching the debates because i think -- >> what a couple of politicians. come on, joel. it's obvious he's a republican. what are you? >> i give you the same speech. we're trying to reach the whole group. to come on here and say we're democrat or republican, 50% of the people will say -- >> let me pin you down about leadership, because you alluded to business leadership. mitt romney clearly has a standout record of being a very successful businessman. but with that came allegations he was too ruthless, too hard, that bain capital in particular broke up companies, they tossed people on the woodpile, if you like. what do you think of his record as a businessman? are you concerned about that? >> well, you know what, i just see the ads and what i read, i think a lot of what we see on both candidates, not just him, are tainted, are inflated. i think when i look at president obama and mitt romney, they are hard working, good people that, you know, i don't fault mitt romney for his success. >> do you think it's wrong in modern day america that someone like mitt romney who has made hundreds of millions of dollars and probably not quite as much as you have, joel, but he's done okay for himself, that he gets lambasted for his success, for making that money, that somehow it's become a bad thing to be rich and successful in america? >> i do. i don't think we should look down on people that are successful. i don't think that's healthy. you know, i see somebody like mitt romney helping others and things so i, you know, the goal is not going to happen but it's for everybody to be successful and everybody to be blessed and healthy, not just with money but i don't think we ought to look down on somebody that's been successful. i want somebody successful running the country. president obama went to harvard and doing pretty well. you see mitt romney as well. >> i have interviewed him a few times now. he seems a perfectly nice, kind, well-intentioned guy. i think on the principle front, a little bit flip-floppy. you're not quite sure what he really stands for. but the real problem comes with what he says when he doesn't think the cameras are on him. we saw this yesterday with this video that came out, when he was pretty harsh. 47% of americans, half the country, are victims, living off the state, not paying tax, and completely disingenuous. most of those people do pay payroll tax or they are the elderly or veterans. it was a very clumsy thing to have done. you must feel offended when you hear him say something like that, don't you? >> here i go again, but i'm for mercy, i'm for seeing the best in people. >> being merciful towards mitt romney? >> in a presidential election, every sentence is scrutinized. they were knocking president obama the other day for the "you didn't build it" or whatever it is. that's not the heart of what they meant. you know, i probably have way too much mercy than some people but i just, i look at him and say it's admirable that they're trying to win this election and do good for our country because that's not an easy job. that's getting raked over the coals every day. >> we'll be right back. those little things still get you. for you, life's about her. but your erectile dysfunction - that could be a question of blood flow. cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently or urgently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medications, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sexual activity. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess with cialis. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or if you have any allergic reactions such as rash, hives, swelling of the lips, tongue or throat, or difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a 30-tablet free trial. heavenly father, we thank you for this time with mr. president. lord, we just ask for your peace, for this nation, for your strength, for your wisdom, for the leaders. >> joel osteen with israeli president shimon peres. certainly as i went back to london all i could see was your grinning mug everywhere with copies of your book everywhere. how many have you done? >> this is my fourth major book. >> how many tens of millions of copies have you sold? >> i don't know. i sold a lot, though. >> you're not denying tens of millions, i noticed. >> i don't know about that. >> the first sold ten million. >> it did. it did. but you know, i write the books to hopefully help people and people get inspired behind them. there's a lot of things pushing people down so our ministry is about lifting people up, saying hey, don't get bitter, don't get discouraged, you know, stay in faith, stay positive. people are drawn to that because there is a lot of negativity. >> you do have this effect on me. every time i interview you, i go away and i feel happier. i feel better about myself although i feel deeply resentful you're selling more books than i did. what i wonder, when you do a book called "i declare" which is a smart premise, sort of a statement for every day of the month, and it's very positive driven, very get up and be glass half full, not glass half empty, but people will say it's a lot easier for you, mate, you're selling tens of millions of books, you're making hundreds of millions of dollars, you are married to this beautiful woman. life's pretty damn good for joel osteen. what about if i've lost my job, my house, my car, i can't feed my kids, as tens of millions of americans right now are going through that. what do you say about that? how do you convince them to take your lead? >> well, i think the big part of the ministry is that you know, we faced difficulties, too, but our hearts go out to people. americans are uhurting, people all over the world. the important thing is if you get up in the morning, saying life is lousy, there's nothing good in my future, i don't want to go to work, i don't feel well, you will negativeity. it's hard, i'm not saying it's easy, especially when things are coming against you. you got to find something to be grateful for. >> when i saw the video there, it was pretty controversial because this is a very sensitive thing out there, isn't it, mitt romney himself got into more trouble when more of that video came out. it was basically him saying he doesn't think there can be peace and pretty well blaming the palestinians. you obviously interviewed peres. did you get flack from the palestinians? did you worry about dipping your toe into a very hot political situation? >> you know, i didn't, because piers, the foundation of our faith is based out of israel and the scripture tells us to pray for peace in jerusalem. i went over certainly not as a political leader but as a friend to the people. we don't shun somebody, the palestinian people or anybody else, but just happened to be there holding an event there so i felt very honored to pray with him. >> we got a picture of joel on a beach which we thought we would show victoria. there we are. pretty damn impressive. is he into this p-90x thing? >> let's see. >> the paul ryan -- >> it's just all natural. >> really? >> he works out. >> i work out. >> every day? >> no, i don't work out every day. i like to work out. i grew up playing sports. i like to run, lift weights, play sports. it's natural to me. >> not bad. another reason to hate you. >> well. >> if you weren't such a nice bloke, it would be easy to hate you. >> thank you. >> when people go to vote now in november, what is the key message? if you had barack obama and mitt romney here, you wanted them to declare things, what do you want them to declare truthfully to the electorate to make a decision about them? >> well, i don't know if i can give them advice. the book is about declaring, declare god's faithfulness in my life, declare god's wisdom in my life, declare that i have favor from god to make the right decision. >> those are great things for them to declare. >> sure. but when you see them taking out ads, for example, which are deliberately negative, often flagrantly untrue, just really unpleasant, nasty attack ads, do you think that should stop in this country? you think it's just poison? >> i would love for it to but it seems as long as i can remember, it's always happened and from what i hear, the negative seems to work. it's a shame -- >> would you like it to stop? >> i would love it to stop. i would love it to stay on a higher level. i don't know if that's practical but i think it would be great if it would. i think things are taken out of context and you know, amplified and it's not necessarily like you said the full truth. >> it's been a pleasure to see you both again. unfortunately, i have to declare this interview over. i'm sure we will meet again very soon with the next book or whatever it may be. "31 promises to speak over your life." i will read this tonight, i know i will feel better tomorrow so tomorrow night's interviews will be a lot happier all around than today's have been. lovely to see you. coming up, a pop star who has a lot to say about politics. wyclef jean had his own presidential ambitions. i will ask him what he thinks about the race between mitt romney and president obama. 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president obama: i'm barack obamthis message.ve... anncr: he keeps saying it... mitt romney: this president cannot tell us that you're... better off today than when he took office. anncr: well... here's where we were in 2008... tv anncr: the worst financial collapse... since the great depression... tv anncr: american workers were laid off in numbers not seen... in over three decades. anncr: and here's where we are today... thirty months of private sector job growth. creating 4.6 million new jobs. we're not there yet. but the real question is: whose plan is better for you? the president's plan asks millionaires... to pay a little more... to help invest in a strong middle class. clean energy. and cut the deficit. mitt romney's plan? a new 250,000 dollar tax break for... multi-millionaires. roll back regulations on the banks that cratered the economy. and raise taxes on the middle class. president clinton: they want to go back to the same old... policies that got us in trouble in the first place. president obama: we're not going back, we are moving forward. anncr: forward. why does my mouth feel dryer than i remember it to be? there are more people taking more medication, so we see people suffering from dry mouth more so. we may see more cavities, bad breath, oral irritation. a dry mouth sufferer doesn't have to suffer. i would recommend biotene. the enzymes in biotene products help supplement enzymes that are naturally in saliva. biotene helps moisten those areas that have become dry. those that are suffering can certainly benefit from biotene. plenty of hip-hop stars are opinionated when it comes to politics but not very many have attempt tod run for office themselves like wyclef jean. he rose from poverty and became a huge star with the fugees while developing a passion for politics. his new book details his struggles and successes and he joins me now for his first prime time interview. welcome. good to see you. see you. >> good to see you too. >> here is the deal. you can either be involved in music or politics for the rest of your life, you can't do both, what would you choose? >> i would choose if i was in my 20s, i would say music. being in my 40s, i would definitely say politics. >> why are you so enthused by it? >> politics came from my uncle, ray joseph, the haiti ambassador to america, so politics has always been an undertone in the household. >> you're a surprising character. you voted for obama and down to perform the rnc convention this year, and you pulled out. what's that all about? >> the first thing is is i did not agree to perform at the rnc. willie nelson pulled out. you know what i'm saying? willie, you're my man, but that's who pulled out. what came across, the e-mail of my management, was something that said, a performance for veterans, and disabled, which i perform for vets. i had people that was in the military. once the e-mail went down, and it was like, rnc, i was like, you all know i can't do that. now, i'm not doing it because i have -- tend of the day, i have friends that are republican. you know, they are just going to vote for obama this time around. you know what i mean? >> yeah yeah. a lot of republican friends feel obama is the way to go. >> have you ever been republican, or always resolutely a democrat? >> coming from haiti, landing in the projects in brooklyn, going from welfare to public school, me and my brother, he goes to eastern that nazarean college, e goes to boston university. automatically, all my life, i would naturally be dem rat. >> jean. that's the french jean. >> it's actually jean, but what happened is my dad actually named me after the englishmen, so partially right and wrong. so he named me after wycleaf jean. >> but you are actually wycleiw jean. >> in texas, though, wycleaf jean. >> how do you think obama is doing? he has 49 days left to save the world and get re-elected. >> if i'm being critical, where we're at right now with the first term, he didn't get a bipartisan front, and what i mean by that, a lot of things he was trying to go for, congress was not allowing him to go through. and i think when it comes to his re-election, i think he's doing great, and i think -- i don't really think. i believe that he will be the next president. >> when you hear mitt romney as you did yesterday in the secret tape emerged, talking about being half of america being victims, living off the state, not paying taxes, a very smeary condemning kind of rhetoric he used, how did you feel about that? >> i felt offended. offended in the sense i told you my story, coming from a background where we was in poverty and got a chance to make it in the american dream. i think that's the story. at the same time, i want to be clear, i have super, super rich friends that were always rich. but at the same time, they don't look down at us as if we're nothing, and the idea is people are people, and i think the government still plays a crucial part of what we do. >> what does it come down to you, this election? what do you think those still trying to make their minds up should really focus on? >> if you follow wycleaf jean on twitter, which i have over 1 million, probably more than that. i think we need a president who has a cool head, not a president that reacts off emotion or anger. if you look at what's going on outside of america, with the rest of the world, you have to have somebody that comes in and understand that. the second part of it is, of course, i think the economy is crucial. we have to put people back to work. and i think with obama's second term, i think that he'll realize that. >> well, it's been a real pleasure. the book is a fascinating read "purpose." come back and see us again. >> thank you, sir. >> a man who gives new meaning to going for gold. you know why i sell tools? 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is based out of israel. >> and if this country is ready for a mormon president. >> we're not electing a pastor of the nation. we're electing a leader and who can best lead. >> returning, the only guest who ever bothers to pray for me. >> i say he's the nicest guy. >> joel and victoria osteen. and wyclef jean on romney's 47% comment. >> the government still plays a crucial part of what we do. >> this is "piers morgan tonight." good evening. our big story tonight, mitt romney's meltdown. the storm over the candidate's remarks recorded at a private fund-raising event in may shows no sign of blowing over. >> these are people who pay no income tax. 47% of americans pay no income tax so our message of low taxes doesn't connect. they'll be out there talking about tax cuts for the rich. that's what they celebrate every four years. so my job is not to worry about those people. i'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives. >> the white house has responded with full barrels. listen to what the president told david letterman tonight. >> one of the things i've learned as president is you represent the entire country. >> just how bad is all this for mitt romney? is it really good for the president? joining me is senate majority whip, dick durbin. thank you for joining me. are you guys rubbing your hands with glee? do you think it's a game-changing moment in this election battle? >> it's certainly an insight into the mind of mitt romney. this was a moment when he was speaking to his closest friends and supporters and he really writes off almost half of america as people without personal responsibility, who view themselves as victims. it wasn't too much of a surprise, really. he was the one who said corporations are persons and the gaffes along the way really kind of lean to a lifestyle that most middle income americans just would never appreciate or certainly wouldn't understand. so i think it's further insight into romney and his values. >> he is trying to sort of spin this as well, it's just an illustration albeit clumsily phrased of the message we are trying to ram home. listen to what he told fox news earlier. >> this is a message i'm carrying day in and day out and will carry over the coming months, which is this is a decision about the course of america, and where we're going to head, and we've seen the president's policies play out over the last four years. >> if that had been his only reaction, then perhaps he may have got a bit of escape route out of this but last night looked like he was panicking, he raced to the cameras, he looked a little bit beleaguered when he did that. clearly, judging by the way the polls are moving, and the general mood about mitt romney, he's in trouble now, isn't he? >> well, certainly he's talking himself into trouble. last night, remember what he said, that was inelegant, the way i expressed it. well, i would have said well, you had some time to think about it, add your fair share of elegance to your statement, and tell us what you really meant. i'm afraid what we're hearing from him is basically he thinks people, working families that send their kids off to college with a government loan are somehow victims, have a mindset that they're victims or those that are drawing medicare after paying into it for a lifetime don't have personal responsibility? i mean, that doesn't sound to me like a good understanding of what the struggle is in america for so many working families who are doing their best to take care of their kids and plan for their future. >> we also saw after the appalling events in libya a few days ago, a kind of spontaneous and perhaps very ill-advised spontaneous reaction from mitt romney by sort of common agreement that he jumped in very quickly to attack the president at a time when it may have been more prudent to have just backed off, waited for the facts and supported the president and the country through that period. what of that and his comments in the video about the palestinians where he kind of lays the blame at their feet completely, it seems, against israel? what do you think about his hand on the foreign policy tiller? >> well, he's certainly been bumbling when it comes to domestic policy and way beyond his element and comfort level when it comes to foreign policy. i mean, how can you visit england, our trusted ally, and say something that was so outrageous that it turns the british people against him and the comments he made about the olympics. it was just a ham-handed approach to something that should have been a very easy assignment for even a presidential candidate. >> i think the problem with that was, i was in england at the time and of course, everyone in england was saying exactly the same thing as mitt romney. it's just a bit like going to somebody's house and saying you don't like their curtains. it's not for him to say. for now, thank you very much. >> good to be with you. now we go to one of mitt romney's strongest advocates and outspoken voice in the republican party. donald trump joins me on the phone. how are you? >> hello, piers. >> your man's in a little trouble. he's dug himself a monumental hole. >> no, i don't think so at all. i think people like to say that. i don't think so at all. it's a debate that has to be had. i guess he brought it out into the open but i don't think so at all and i don't think he should be apologizing for anything. and they should just continue on with the polls, they're showing very close. it will be a tight race no matter how you look at it but it's a point of view and it's probably something that they have to have out at some point. >> are the media making too much of this, do you think? >> yes, absolutely. they make a big deal out of it and frankly, he's been saying similar things on the campaign stump. he's been going out and he's been discussing this. this is something that has to be discussed, and as you know, there are tremendous numbers of people, whether it's 47% or close to 50%, that don't pay taxes and don't pay income taxes, and probably lots of other taxes, so this is really a discussion and a debate and it has to go forward. and let's see how it ends up. >> one of the problems, it seems to me, if you actually analyze the 47% who supposedly don't pay tax in the way that he put it, many of them reside in states that are supportive to mitt romney, so it's a real shoot yourself in the foot moment, isn't it? >> i don't think so. i think it's really something and a point that is going to be discussed over the next 50 days, and there are two sides to it, and it's come out and a lot of people wanted it to come out, because they really feel that it's a very, very vital thing. it has to be discussed. >> you have always been somebody who calls a spade a spade, and i'm sure that you have been talking to mitt romney. he's clearly having a rocky time in this campaign. everyone can see that. what advice do you give him to get things back on track? do you want to see him go harder at barack obama? >> well, i have to think that it's been a pretty rough period because everything he says, they attack him and i think he's going to have to get very tough and frankly, he's got to fight fire with fire. they're blaming him for egypt, okay? this is a beauty. they blamed him the other day for egypt. now, egypt's blowing up with a horrible foreign policy that we had, and they actually put the blame on mitt romney. i said what did he have to do with egypt? it really is, it's a nasty campaign and honestly, mitt is going to have to be both very smart, which he is, and very nasty, which frankly, he's not. and he's got to get that way because they are coming at him with all barrels loaded and he's going to have to get that way and very quickly, in my opinion. when i see what happened with, as an example, the memo or the statement he made having to do with libya, and having to do with other things, having to do with egypt, and he's getting blamed for all this, it's incredible. he has nothing to do with it. >> part of his problem, donald, it seems, is he seems to have this inability to talk in a way that people find relatable to the common man and woman in america. i don't know if it's appropriate for you to get into this because you are a very rich guy, much richer than mitt romney but you always had the ability to communicate with the poorer man on the streets. i have been around you and they all seem to relate to you. how can he work on that? how can he improve the way he relates to people? >> you know, as you know better than anyone, i just want to congratulate you because i'm just hearing great things about your show and how well you're doing and i'm very proud of you, because of your success on the "apprentice." every time i watch i'm proud of you. but i have to say that you are born a certain way. he's a gentleman, he's a very smart guy. i think he can be a very tough guy and i think he's somebody that will make a great president. that doesn't mean he's going to be a great campaigner, but he will be a great president. there are very, very different abilities and i really think ultimately, people will see through all of this, but he's being blamed for things that he has nothing to do with, and he frankly, you know, the statement that he made, the recent statement that's causing all this fuss, it's being built up, built up by the media, built up by the obama folks, and i don't blame them for doing it. i blame the media but i don't blame the obama folks if they can get away with it for doing exactly what they're doing. but i really think that mitt can handle pressure well. that was proven to me during the debates, if you remember, in florida. he went into florida having to win the debates, having to win florida. he was in trouble. he won both debates easily and he did a fantastic job. i actually told him it was the best political week of his life. he did a fantastic job. he won florida and then he took it from there. he's very good under pressure. i think that the debates and especially the first debate will be vital to both sides. you know, don't forget, you're talking about mitt. the fact is most of the polls have him just about even right now and in some cases, they have mitt up and in some cases, they have the president up, but it's a very, very close race. and i have a feeling he's going to react very well under pressure, as he did in florida, piers. >> have you spoken to him since this whole secret video story blew up? >> i have. >> how was he? >> i think he's fine. it's a debate that is going to be had and it's a debate that should be had, and people are going to be talking about it and i think that's a good thing, not a bad thing. >> do you still believe fundamentally that mitt romney can win this election, donald? >> well, absolutely. look at the polls. they're showing even. he's up in north carolina. he's about even or maybe even winning in florida. he's slightly down in ohio. absolutely i think he can, and i think the other side believes he can and frankly, a lot's going to happen over the next 50 days. don't forget, he saved his money and they're going to do a massive campaign, whereas president obama has spent much of his money already, but they have been very i think wisely, now, time will tell, i'll tell you in about 51 days, but they have been i think very wisely save their money and now you're going to have a blitz. let's see how that works. let's see how it comes out but they have a tremendous amount of money which they haven't spent, the other side has spent a lot of its money. >> do you think that it's fair that super pacs can spend tens of millions of dollars and therefore, the one with the most money can, if they're smart, effectively buy an election? >> well, number one, i don't think you can buy the election. but it doesn't matter what i think. the supreme court said it was fine. so you have people on the supreme court, they voted in favor of that, so you know, it's irrelevant what i think. but the court certainly said it was fine. >> from your conversation with mitt romney, he's a bit battered but not beaten? >> oh, no. just the opposite. i think he's really ready now to start going, and i think you're going to see somebody, remember what i said. some people, and i have known many, many people. you happen to be one of them. you reacted very well under pressure and i got to know you very much under pressure. some people react very well under pressure. most people don't. mitt romney reacted very, very well under pressure and that was during, in particular, florida, he had to win that state. otherwise it was over. not only did he win the debates and newt is very tough and very good as a debater, and he won the debates and he won florida. that was under great stress, under great pressure. so let's see how he does. i think you'll be very surprised. >> donald trump, thank you for joining me. >> thank you very much, piers. >> donald trump not the only one fired up about this. when we come back, political all-stars go toe-to-toe. i predict this will get lively. ♪ [ female announcer ] pop in a whole new kind of clean. with tide pods. just one removes more stains than the 6 next leading pacs combined pop in. stand out. ♪ wow... 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[ male announcer ] now get 50% off brake pads and shoes at meineke. i don't know what he was referring to, but i can tell you this. when i won in 2008, 47% of the american people voted for john mccain. they didn't vote for me. and what i said on election night was even though you didn't vote for me, i hear your voices and i'm going to work as hard as i can to be your president, and one of the things i've learned as president is you represent the entire country. >> president obama talking to david letterman tonight, two very articulate people on opposite sides of this debate. "new york times" columnist david groh. on the face of it, this is a monumental gaffe by mitt romney because whichever way you try to spin it, it's basically calling half of america a bunch of scrounging victims. >> romney must have honey on his toes because he can't keep his foot out of his mouth. there is no way for mitt romney to walk back what he has said. he has basically said, there are a couple words that stand out. victim, right? when you talk about casual observers, these are not people who read the "new york times" and "washington post" every day. they will glance by news and see snippets on television. these things stand out, calling 47% of americans victims who are dependent on government. also saying, and this is think is a pivotal part of that clip, is it is not my job to worry about these people. >> michael gerson, it's very, very hard to defend this, isn't it? if you're in the romney camp, it comes off the back of another couple major gaffes by common consensus major gaffes, including the libyan, way he behaved over that attack. when you are in that camp now, what do you do? how do you get him out of this hole? >> well, there are only a couple of responses in a case like this, because it's hard to disagree with that analysis of this quote. you say what i really meant to say was and that's what he's done. i really meant to say government's too large and will bankrupt the country and try to get it back to a more sustainable ideological argument until the press moves on to the next thing, or you can say i was wrong, at least in part, which maybe is what he should say here. the government is too large but the reality here is that most people want to improve their own lives and i'm going to appeal to everyone and i made a mistake. i don't think politicians do that enough. >> there's a new "wall street journal" poll tonight and nbc news combined with them gives the president his highest job approval rating since march at 50%. it also shows mr. romney among likely voters, 50% to 45% so 5% clear lead with just two weeks before the campaign hits a major landmark with the first debate. if you're mitt romney, you are in big trouble now. there's no way of saying you're not. you're in big trouble. what is he going to do? >> what does he have to do? >> i know you don't want him to do it. what does he have to do politically? >> well, i kind of agree with the idea that you do have to say go closer to an apology if not outright apologize. but even if you do that, there's a problem with that because the whole statement rests on the idea that obama has a base that is near half of the electorate so if he starts to back away and say i didn't mean the whole 47%, i meant like 20%, i meant 30%, then the whole argument falls apart so then you did mean to say exactly what you said. you were basically saying that there is a part of the electorate that is almost at a winning percentage that will vote for this president regardless because they feel they are victims and they are parasitic and that is a problem, i don't know how you fix this. every time i see him on television, the first press conference and interviews on fox news, neither one of those things -- it's almost better to just say nothing if he was going to do what he did. >> isn't the real problem for mitt romney is this lends succor to the argument that he is two-faced when it comes to principles and his political views? >> i think the worst kind of gaffes are the ones that confirm a stereotype. that was true of obama, with the they cling to guns and religion, he was seen as an elitist. i think it was true of george w. bush when the old dui came out where he seemed irresponsible. sometimes these aren't always fatal but they contribute to an image and it's a bad one. i think the best way for romney to combat that going forward is to actually have some policy to say about the mobility and advancement for the aspiring poor, to prove that you actually care about everyone by proposing policies that appeal to unexpected groups. the campaign hasn't done very much of that. they said they were going to make a pivot to be more policy oriented. i think that's one way to help get beyond that is to prove you care about the whole country by proposing some policy that appeals to the whole country. >> charles blow, the problem it seems to me, he believed the economy was his strong point and what barack obama has quite skillfully done i think with his team is attack him on his strong point, trying to portray bain as a murderous rampaging capitalist beast chucking people on the sword and now you have this situation. i will play a new obama ad which basically sums up how he will attack him. it's very, very damaging. watch this. >> so my job is not to worry about those people. i will never convince them. >> wow. >> i actually felt sick to my stomach. >> i don't like it. >> it shows that he's out of touch, that if he thinks half of the country is feeling like victims. >> victims, i wouldn't say so. i don't think that's part of the american fabric. >> we touched a little earlier on the victim thing. also, he had these other remarks about the palestinians and how they were basically going to be a block to any kind of peace over there. he's touched on the foreign policy aspect as we have seen with the libya gaffe and now this, it's pretty unsteady as it is and now in his own backyard of the economy, he suddenly looks vulnerable. >> well, the latest rounds of polls have basically said -- shown that obama is eating away at his edge on the economy which is bad news for him. i don't think it's necessarily right to cast it as the obama campaign making bain out to be villainous. there were parts of what bain did that were not helpful to people who were actually everyday workers. this is a fact. >> there's also a fact that many of the things bain did were successful turn-around of companies. >> right. it depends on what you call success. if it is making money for the investors of bain, yes, incredibly successful. if as mitt has basically made his campaign out to be, i am a job creator, i know how to create jobs, well, that is a very much more mixed picture and the obama campaign is pointing that out. they are not making those facts up. that is a very real thing. the other part of the economic issue is that mitt romney has taken advantage of a lot of tax loopholes that we know of and he won't release the other information we don't, about back taxes. he won't release those so we don't even know if mitt romney might be one of the people who didn't pay taxes that he's now slamming as part of the 47%. that's the problem for mitt romney. mitt romney made this problem. the obama campaign is basically just taking advantage of it. >> michael gerson, final word for you. obviously they are going to be in the bunker tonight thinking oh, my god, how do we get out of this, but there are ways to get out of it and we don't know quite what their strategy will be. do you think as things stand, that mitt romney can still win this election? >> oh, i think so. i think the president consistently at 50% or below in approval rating is a danger sign. presidents generally need to be in the very high 40s or low 50s in order to be re-elected. george bush was an exception in 2004, he was at 48% at his re-election. it's still a very tight race. you have 50 days. the problem is, this is a time when they need traction, when in fact they have a distraction. so i think this is wasting time. it's not only adding to a destructive stereotype, it's actually allowing them or not allowing them to gain some traction at a time that's really essential. >> michael gerson, charles blow, thank you both very much. coming up, politics and prayer. how does faith factor into the race for president? i'll ask two of america's best-known pastors, joel and victoria osteen. [ male announcer ] if you stash tissues like a squirrel stashes nuts, you may be muddling through allergies. try zyrtec® liquid gels. nothing starts working faster than zyrtec® at relieving your allergy symptoms for 24 hours. zyrtec®. love the air. and get outstanding deals with the travelocity fall hotel sale. you can save up to 40% on select hotels. so book your hotel now and save up to 40%. hurry, offer ends soon. book now at travelocity. i declare every person under the sound of my voice is blessed. >> joel osteen in miami in 2010. here's his wife victoria speaking the language of millions of americans when it comes to matters of faith but how about politics? they are pastors of lakewood church in houston and the new book is "i declare, 31 promises to speak over your life." joining me exclusively, joel and victoria osteen. welcome back. i feel like we're old friends now. >> i know. good to see you again. >> the worse i treat you, the more you come back for more. i like that. >> everybody thinks you're mean. i say he's the nicest guy. >> don't ruin my reputation. i know what you'll say to my first question. you'll say look, i never get involved in politics, it's your pat answer. but given the evangelical vote is so important to both barack obama and mitt romney, what do you say to your flock when they come and see you and say look, joel, i can't work out who to vote for, what do you say to them? >> well, piers, i just go back to a central theme of encouraging everybody to vote, to search their own heart, because it's interesting, good people of faith can read the scripture and interpret it differently. i have democrats and republicans in our church that love the lord, you know, that couldn't be any better people but they just, you know, different issues speak to them. >> the president, though, is a conventional christian. mitt romney is a mormon. and there are fundamental differences. the holy trinity definition in both is very, very different. the mormons believe there are the father, son and holy spirit. obviously the christian faith believes they're all the same thing. how do you deal with that? surely your natural leaning would be towards the guy that believes the same that you do. >> i think you're right in that instance. i think also, though, you look at the whole totality of the person and not just their faith, although their faith is important because it tells me their values and their characters, but i think as practical americans and as practical followers of christ, you look at their business experience and other areas as well. i like that saying that we're not just -- we're not electing a pastor of the nation, we're electing a leader and who can best lead. >> victoria, who do you prefer more? who is more charismatic to you? >> i think they're both amazing men. that's just going to have -- to people who are undecided, i would say to them watch the debates, learn as much as you can, and then vote. and i would definitely say vote, because everyone needs to vote. that's what makes this country a great country. i will definitely be voting. >> are you undecided? >> am i undecided? no. >> you have decided? >> well, i'm going to really enjoy watching the debates because i think -- >> what a couple of politicians. come on, joel. it's obvious he's a republican. what are you? >> i give you the same speech. we're trying to reach the whole group. to come on here and say we're democrat or republican, 50% of the people will say -- >> let me pin you down about leadership, because you alluded to business leadership. mitt romney clearly has a standout record of being a very successful businessman. but with that came allegations he was too ruthless, too hard, that bain capital in particular broke up companies, they tossed people on the woodpile, if you like. what do you think of his record as a businessman? are you concerned about that? >> well, you know what, i just see the ads and what i read, i think a lot of what we see on both candidates, not just him, are tainted, are inflated. i think when i look at president obama and mitt romney, they are hard working, good people that, you know, i don't fault mitt romney for his success. >> do you think it's wrong in modern day america that someone like mitt romney who has made hundreds of millions of dollars and probably not quite as much as you have, joel, but he's done okay for himself, that he gets lambasted for his success, for making that money, that somehow it's become a bad thing to be rich and successful in america? >> i do. i don't think we should look down on people that are successful. i don't think that's healthy. you know, i see somebody like mitt romney helping others and things so i, you know, the goal is not going to happen but it's for everybody to be successful and everybody to be blessed and healthy, not just with money but i don't think we ought to look down on somebody that's been successful. i want somebody successful running the country. president obama went to harvard and doing pretty well. you see mitt romney as well. >> i have interviewed him a few times now. he seems a perfectly nice, kind, well-intentioned guy. i think on the principle front, a little bit flip-floppy. you're not quite sure what he really stands for. but the real problem comes with what he says when he doesn't think the cameras are on him. we saw this yesterday with this video that came out, when he was pretty harsh. 47% of americans, half the country, are victims, living off the state, not paying tax, and completely disingenuous. most of those people do pay payroll tax or they are the elderly or veterans. it was a very clumsy thing to have done. you must feel offended when you hear him say something like that, don't you? >> here i go again, but i'm for mercy, i'm for seeing the best in people. >> being merciful towards mitt romney? >> in a presidential election, every sentence is scrutinized. they were knocking president obama the other day for the "you didn't build it" or whatever it is. that's not the heart of what they meant. you know, i probably have way too much mercy than some people but i just, i look at him and say it's admirable that they're trying to win this election and do good for our country because that's not an easy job. that's getting raked over the coals every day. >> we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] if you believe the mayan calendar, on december 21st polar shifts will reverse the earth's gravitational pull and hurtle us all into space. which would render retirement planning unnecessary. but say the sun rises on december 22nd, and you still need to retire. td ameritrade's investment consultants can help you build a plan that fits your life. we'll even throw in up to $600 when you open a new account or roll over an old 401(k). so who's in control now, mayans? heavenly father, we thank you for this time with mr. president. lord, we just ask for your peace, for this nation, for your strength, for your wisdom, for the leaders. >> joel osteen with israeli president shimon peres. certainly as i went back to london all i could see was your grinning mug everywhere with copies of your book everywhere. how many have you done? >> this is my fourth major book. >> how many tens of millions of copies have you sold? >> i don't know. i sold a lot, though. >> you're not denying tens of millions, i noticed. >> i don't know about that. >> the first sold ten million. >> it did. it did. but you know, i write the books to hopefully help people and people get inspired behind them. there's a lot of things pushing people down so our ministry is about lifting people up, saying hey, don't get bitter, don't get discouraged, you know, stay in faith, stay positive. people are drawn to that because there is a lot of negativity. >> you do have this effect on me. every time i interview you, i go away and i feel happier. i feel better about myself although i feel deeply resentful you're selling more books than i did. what i wonder, when you do a book called "i declare" which is a smart premise, sort of a statement for every day of the month, and it's very positive driven, very get up and be glass half full, not glass half empty, but people will say it's a lot easier for you, mate, you're selling tens of millions of books, you're making hundreds of millions of dollars, you are married to this beautiful woman. life's pretty damn good for joel osteen. what about if i've lost my job, my house, my car, i can't feed my kids, as tens of millions of americans right now are going through that. what do you say about that? how do you convince them to take your lead? >> well, i think the big part of the ministry is that you know, we faced difficulties, too, but our hearts go out to people. americans are hurting, people all over the world. the important thing is if you get up in the morning, saying life is lousy, there's nothing good in my future, i don't want to go to work, i don't feel well, you will negativeity. it's hard, i'm not saying it's easy, especially when things are coming against you. you got to find something to be grateful for. >> when i saw the video there, it was pretty controversial because this is a very sensitive thing out there, isn't it, mitt romney himself got into more trouble when more of that video came out. it was basically him saying he doesn't think there can be peace and pretty well blaming the palestinians. you obviously interviewed peres. did you get flack from the palestinians? did you worry about dipping your toe into a very hot political situation? >> you know, i didn't, because piers, the foundation of our faith is based out of israel and the scripture tells us to pray for peace in jerusalem. i went over certainly not as a political leader but as a friend to the people. we don't shun somebody, the palestinian people or anybody else, but just happened to be there holding an event there so i felt very honored to pray with him. >> we got a picture of joel on a beach which we thought we would show victoria. there we are. pretty damn impressive. is he into this p-90x thing? >> let's see. >> the paul ryan -- >> it's just all natural. >> really? >> he works out. >> i work out. >> every day? >> no, i don't work out every day. i like to work out. i grew up playing sports. i like to run, lift weights, play sports. it's natural to me. >> not bad. another reason to hate you. >> well. >> if you weren't such a nice bloke, it would be easy to hate you. >> thank you. >> when people go to vote now in november, what is the key message? if you had barack obama and mitt romney here, you wanted them to declare things, what do you want them to declare truthfully to the electorate to make a decision about them? >> well, i don't know if i can give them advice. the book is about declaring, declare god's faithfulness in my life, declare god's wisdom in my life, declare that i have favor from god to make the right decision. >> those are great things for them to declare. >> sure. but when you see them taking out ads, for example, which are deliberately negative, often flagrantly untrue, just really unpleasant, nasty attack ads, do you think that should stop in this country? you think it's just poison? >> i would love for it to but it seems as long as i can remember, it's always happened and from what i hear, the negative seems to work. it's a shame -- >> would you like it to stop? >> i would love it to stop. i would love it to stay on a higher level. i don't know if that's practical but i think it would be great if it would. i think things are taken out of context and you know, amplified and it's not necessarily like you said the full truth. >> it's been a pleasure to see you both again. unfortunately, i have to declare this interview over. i'm sure we will meet again very soon with the next book or whatever it may be. "31 promises to speak over your life." i will read this tonight, i know i will feel better tomorrow so tomorrow night's interviews will be a lot happier all around than today's have been. lovely to see you. coming up, a pop star who has a lot to say about politics. wyclef jean had his own presidential ambitions. i will ask him what he thinks about the race between mitt romney and president obama. but today...( sfx: loud noise of large metal object hitting the ground) things have been a little strange. (sfx: sound of piano smashing) roadrunner: meep meep. meep meep? (sfx: loud thud sound) what a strange place. geico®. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. plenty of hip-hop stars are opinionated when it comes to politics but not very many have attempt tod run for office themselves like wyclef jean. he rose from poverty and became a huge star with the fugees while developing a passion for politics. his new book details his struggles and successes and he joins me now for his first prime time interview. welcome. good to see you. >> good to see you too. >> here is the deal. you can either be involved in music or politics for the rest of your life, you can't do both, what would you choose? >> i would choose if i was in my 20s, i would say music. being in my 40s, i would definitely say politics. >> why are you so enthused by it? >> politics came from my uncle, ray joseph, the haiti ambassador to america, so politics has always been an undertone in the household. >> you're a surprising character. you voted for obama and down to perform the rnc convention this year, and you pulled out. what's that all about? >> the first thing is is i did not agree to perform at the rnc. willie nelson pulled out. you know what i'm saying? willie, you're my man, but that's who pulled out. what came across, the e-mail of my management, was something that said, a performance for veterans, and disabled, which i perform for vets. i had people that was in the military. once the e-mail went down, and it was like, rnc, i was like, you all know i can't do that. now, i'm not doing it because i have -- tend of the day, i have friends that are republican. you know, they are just going to vote for obama this time around. you know what i mean? >> yeah yeah. a lot of republican friends feel obama is the way to go. >> have you ever been republican, or always resolutely a democrat? >> coming from haiti, landing in the projects in brooklyn, going from welfare to public school, me and my brother, he goes to eastern nazarean college, and he goes to boston university. automatically, all my life, i would naturally be democrat. >> jean. that's the french jean. >> it's actually jean, but what happened is my dad actually named me after the englishmen, so partially right and wrong. so he named me after wycleaf jean. >> but you are actually wycleaf jean. >> in texas, though, wycleaf jean. >> how do you think obama is doing? he has 49 days left to save the world and get re-elected. >> if i'm being critical, where we're at right now with the first term, he didn't get a bipartisan front, and what i mean by that, a lot of things he was trying to go for, congress was not allowing him to go through. and i think when it comes to his re-election, i think he's doing great, and i think -- i don't really think. i believe that he will be the next president. >> when you hear mitt romney as you did yesterday in the secret tape emerged, talking about being half of america being victims, living off the state, not paying taxes, a very smeary condemning kind of rhetoric he used, how did you feel about that? >> i felt offended. offended in the sense i told you my story, coming from a background where we was in poverty and got a chance to make it in the american dream. i think that's the story. at the same time, i want to be clear, i have super, super rich friends that were always rich. but at the same time, they don't look down at us as if we're nothing, and the idea is people are people, and i think the government still plays a crucial part of what we do. >> what does it come down to you, this election? what do you think those still trying to make their minds up should really focus on? >> if you follow wycleaf jean on twitter, which i have over 1 million, probably more than that. i think we need a president who has a cool head, not a president that reacts off emotion or anger. if you look at what's going on outside of america, with the rest of the world, you have to have somebody that comes in and understand that. the second part of it is, of course, i think the economy is crucial. we have to put people back to work. and i think with obama's second term, i think that he'll realize that. >> well, it's been a real pleasure. the book is a fascinating read "purpose." come back and see us again. >> thank you, sir. >> a man who gives new meaning to going for gold. i'm only in my 60's... i've got a nice long life ahead. big plans. so when i found out medicare doesn't pay all my medical expenses, i looked at my options. then i got a medicare supplement insurance plan. 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[ male announcer ] join the millions of people who have already enrolled in the only medicare supplement insurance plans endorsed by aarp, an organization serving the needs of people 50 and over for generations. remember, all medicare supplement insurance plans help cover what medicare doesn't pay. and could save you thousands a year in out-of-pocket costs. call now to request your free decision guide. and learn more about the kinds of plans that will be here for you now -- and down the road. i have a lifetime of experience. so i know how important that is. try capzasin-hp. it penetrates deep to block pain signals for hours of relief. capzasin-hp. take the pain out of arthritis. tonight, "only in america," as good as gold. cast your mind a few months, ages in political terms. remember when ron paul was on the campaign trail, logging his country back to the gold standard. >> i wish we would could get back to the sound currency and get back to the gold standard. >> one american took ron paul very, very seriously. meet walter somasco jr. the 69-year-old nevada man who was a reclus who hadn't worked in more than 40 years and had only $200 in his checking account. he had $7 million -- you heard me -- $7 million worth of gold
senate majority whip dick durbin says yes. donald trump, you will be unsurprised to hear, argues no. what they have to say tonight. welcome back. two of america's favorites get down and dirty and political. >> i'm not going to tell you who i'm going to vote for, but -- >> the middle east. >> the foundation of our faith is based out of israel. >> and if this country is ready for a mormon president. >> we're not electing a pastor of the nation. we're electing a leader and who can best lead. >> returning, the only guest who ever bothers to pray for me. >> i say he's the nicest guy. >> joel and victoria osteen. and wyclef jean on romney's 47% comment. >> the government still plays a crucial part of what we do. >> this is "piers morgan tonight." good evening. our big story tonight, mitt romney's meltdown. the storm over the candidate's remarks recorded at a private fund-raising event in may shows no sign of blowing over. >> these are people who pay no income tax. 47% of americans pay no income tax so our message of low taxes doesn't connect. they'll be out there talking about tax cuts for the rich. that's what they celebrate every four years. so my job is not to worry about those people. i'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives. >> the white house has responded with full barrels. listen to what the president told david letterman tonight. >> one of the things i've learned as president is you represent the entire country. >> just how bad is all this for mitt romney? is it really good for the president? joining me is senate majority whip, dick durbin. thank you for joining me. are you guys rubbing your hands with glee? do you think it's a game-changing moment in this election battle? >> it's certainly an insight into the mind of mitt romney. this was a moment when he was speaking to his closest friends and supporters and he really writes off almost half of america as people without personal responsibility, who view themselves as victims. it wasn't too much of a surprise, really. he was the one who said corporations are persons and the gaffes along the way really kind of lean to a lifestyle that most middle income americans just would never appreciate or certainly wouldn't understand. so i think it's further insight into romney and his values. >> he is trying to sort of spin this as well, it's just an illustration albeit clumsily phrased of the message we are trying to ram home. listen to what he told fox news earlier. >> this is a message i'm carrying day in and day out and will carry over the coming months, which is this is a decision about the course of america, and where we're going to head, and we've seen the president's policies play out over the last four years. >> if that had been his only reaction, then perhaps he may have got a bit of escape route out of this but last night looked like he was panicking, he raced to the cameras, he looked a little bit beleaguered when he did that. clearly, judging by the way the polls are moving, and the general mood about mitt romney, he's in trouble now, isn't he? >> well, certainly he's talking himself into trouble. last night, remember what he said, that was inelegant, the way i expressed it. well, i would have said well, you had some time to think about it, add your fair share of elegance to your statement, and tell us what you really meant. i'm afraid what we're hearing from him is basically he thinks people, working families that send their kids off to college with a government loan are somehow victims, have a mindset that they're victims or those that are drawing medicare after paying into it for a lifetime don't have personal responsibility? i mean, that doesn't sound to me like a good understanding of what the struggle is in america for so many working families who are doing their best to take care of their kids and plan for their future. >> we also saw after the appalling events in libya a few days ago, a kind of spontaneous and perhaps very ill-advised spontaneous reaction from mitt romney by sort of common agreement that he jumped in very quickly to attack the president at a time when it may have been more prudent to have just backed off, waited for the facts and supported the president and the country through that period. what of that and his comments in the video about the palestinians where he kind of lays the blame at their feet completely, it seems, against israel? what do you think about his hand on the foreign policy tiller? >> well, he's certainly been bumbling when it comes to domestic policy and way beyond his element and comfort level when it comes to foreign policy. i mean, how can you visit england, our trusted ally, and say something that was so outrageous that it turns the british people against him and the comments he made about the olympics. it was just a ham-handed approach to something that should have been a very easy assignment for even a presidential candidate. >> i think the problem with that was, i was in england at the time and of course, everyone in england was saying exactly the same thing as mitt romney. it's just a bit like going to somebody's house and saying you don't like their curtains. it's not for him to say. for now, thank you very much. >> good to be with you. now we go to one of mitt romney's strongest advocates and outspoken voice in the republican party. donald trump joins me on the phone. how are you? >> hello, piers. >> your man's in a little trouble. he's dug himself a monumental hole. >> no, i don't think so at all. i think people like to say that. i don't think so at all. it's a debate that has to be had. i guess he brought it out into the open but i don't think so at all and i don't think he should be apologizing for anything. and they should just continue on with the polls, they're showing very close. it will be a tight race no matter how you look at it but it's a point of view and it's probably something that they have to have out at some point. >> are the media making too much of this, do you think? >> yes, absolutely. they make a big deal out of it and frankly, he's been saying similar things on the campaign stump. he's been going out and he's been discussing this. this is something that has to be discussed, and as you know, there are tremendous numbers of people, whether it's 47% or close to 50%, that don't pay taxes and don't pay income taxes, and probably lots of other taxes, so this is really a discussion and a debate and it has to go forward. and let's see how it ends up. >> one of the problems, it seems to me, if you actually analyze the 47% who supposedly don't pay tax in the way that he put it, many of them reside in states that are supportive to mitt romney, so it's a real shoot yourself in the foot moment, isn't it? >> i don't think so. i think it's really something and a point that is going to be discussed over the next 50 days, and there are two sides to it, and it's come out and a lot of people wanted it to come out, because they really feel that it's a very, very vital thing. it has to be discussed. >> you have always been somebody who calls a spade a spade, and i'm sure that you have been talking to mitt romney. he's clearly having a rocky time in this campaign. everyone can see that. what advice do you give him to get things back on track? do you want to see him go harder at barack obama? >> well, i have to think that it's been a pretty rough period because everything he says, they attack him and i think he's going to have to get very tough and frankly, he's got to fight fire with fire. they're blaming him for egypt, okay? this is a beauty. they blamed him the other day for egypt. now, egypt's blowing up with a horrible foreign policy that we had, and they actually put the blame on mitt romney. i said what did he have to do with egypt? it really is, it's a nasty campaign and honestly, mitt is going to have to be both very smart, which he is, and very nasty, which frankly, he's not. and he's got to get that way because they are coming at him with all barrels loaded and he's going to have to get that way and very quickly, in my opinion. when i see what happened with, as an example, the memo or the statement he made having to do with libya, and having to do with other things, having to do with egypt, and he's getting blamed for all this, it's incredible. he has nothing to do with it. >> part of his problem, donald, it seems, is he seems to have this inability to talk in a way that people find relatable to the common man and woman in america. i don't know if it's appropriate for you to get into this because you are a very rich guy, much richer than mitt romney but you always had the ability to communicate with the poorer man on the streets. i have been around you and they all seem to relate to you. how can he work on that? how can he improve the way he relates to people? >> you know, as you know better than anyone, i just want to congratulate you because i'm just hearing great things about your show and how well you're doing and i'm very proud of you, because of your success on the "apprentice." every time i watch i'm proud of you. but i have to say that you are born a certain way. he's a gentleman, he's a very smart guy. i think he can be a very tough guy and i think he's somebody that will make a great president. that doesn't mean he's going to be a great campaigner, but he will be a great president. there are very, very different abilities and i really think ultimately, people will see through all of this, but he's being blamed for things that he has nothing to do with, and he frankly, you know, the statement that he made, the recent statement that's causing all this fuss, it's being built up, built up by the media, built up by the obama folks, and i don't blame them for doing it. i blame the media but i don't blame the obama folks if they can get away with it for doing exactly what they're doing. but i really think that mitt can handle pressure well. that was proven to me during the debates, if you remember, in florida. he went into florida having to win the debates, having to win florida. he was in trouble. he won both debates easily and he did a fantastic job. i actually told him it was the best political week of his life. he did a fantastic job. he won florida and then he took it from there. he's very good under pressure. i think that the debates and especially the first debate will be vital to both sides. you know, don't forget, you're talking about mitt. the fact is most of the polls have him just about even right now and in some cases, they have mitt up and in some cases, they have the president up, but it's a very, very close race. and i have a feeling he's going to react very well under pressure, as he did in florida, piers. >> have you spoken to him since this whole secret video story blew up? >> i have. >> how was he? >> i think he's fine. it's a debate that is going to be had and it's a debate that should be had, and people are going to be talking about it and i think that's a good thing, not a bad thing. >> do you still believe fundamentally that mitt romney can win this election, donald? >> well, absolutely. look at the polls. they're showing even. he's up in north carolina. he's about even or maybe even winning in florida. he's slightly down in ohio. absolutely i think he can, and i think the other side believes he can and frankly, a lot's going to happen over the next 50 days. don't forget, he saved his money and they're going to do a massive campaign, whereas president obama has spent much of his money already, but they have been very i think wisely, now, time will tell, i'll tell you in about 51 days, but they have been i think very wisely save their money and now you're going to have a blitz. let's see how that works. let's see how it comes out but they have a tremendous amount of money which they haven't spent, the other side has spent a lot of its money. >> do you think that it's fair that super pacs can spend tens of millions of dollars and therefore, the one with the most money can, if they're smart, effectively buy an election? >> well, number one, i don't think you can buy the election. but it doesn't matter what i think. the supreme court said it was fine. so you have people on the supreme court, they voted in favor of that, so you know, it's irrelevant what i think. but the court certainly said it was fine. >> from your conversation with mitt romney, he's a bit battered but not beaten? >> oh, no. just the opposite. i think he's really ready now to start going, and i think you're going to see somebody, remember what i said. some people, and i have known many, many people. you happen to be one of them. you reacted very well under pressure and i got to know you very much under pressure. some people react very well under pressure. most people don't. mitt romney reacted very, very well under pressure and that was during, in particular, florida, he had to win that state. otherwise it was over. not only did he win the debates and newt is very tough and very good as a debater, and he won the debates and he won florida. that was under great stress, under great pressure. so let's see how he does. i think you'll be very surprised. >> donald trump, thank you for joining me. >> thank you very much, piers. >> donald trump not the only one fired up about this. when we come back, political all-stars go toe-to-toe. i predict this will get lively. 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[ male announcer ] it made a big splash with the employees. [ duck yelling ] [ male announcer ] find out more at... [ duck ] aflac! [ male announcer ] ...forbusiness.com. ♪ ha ha! i don't know what he was referring to, but i can tell you this. when i won in 2008, 47% of the american people voted for john mccain. they didn't vote for me. and what i said on election night was even though you didn't vote for me, i hear your voices and i'm going to work as hard as i can to be your president, and one of the things i've learned as president is you represent the entire country. >> president obama talking to david letterman tonight, two very articulate people on opposite sides of this debate. "new york times" columnist david groh. on the face of it, this is a monumental gaffe by mitt romney because whichever way you try to spin it, it's basically calling half of america a bunch of scrounging victims. >> romney must have honey on his toes because he can't keep his foot out of his mouth. there is no way for mitt romney to walk back what he has said. he has basically said, there are a couple words that stand out. victim, right? when you talk about casual observers, these are not people who read the "new york times" and "washington post" every day. they will glance by news and see snippets on television. these things stand out, calling 47% of americans victims who are dependent on government. also saying, and this is think is a pivotal part of that clip, is it is not my job to worry about these people. >> michael gerson, it's very, very hard to defend this, isn't it? if you're in the romney camp, it comes off the back of another couple major gaffes by common consensus major gaffes, including the libyan, way he behaved over that attack. when you are in that camp now, what do you do? how do you get him out of this hole? >> well, there are only a couple of responses in a case like this, because it's hard to disagree with that analysis of this quote. you say what i really meant to say was and that's what he's done. i really meant to say government's too large and will bankrupt the country and try to get it back to a more sustainable ideological argument until the press moves on to the next thing, or you can say i was wrong, at least in part, which maybe is what he should say here. the government is too large but the reality here is that most people want to improve their own lives and i'm going to appeal to everyone and i made a mistake. i don't think politicians do that enough. >> there's a new "wall street journal" poll tonight and nbc news combined with them gives the president his highest job approval rating since march at 50%. it also shows mr. romney among likely voters, 50% to 45% so 5% clear lead with just two weeks before the campaign hits a major landmark with the first debate. if you're mitt romney, you are in big trouble now. there's no way of saying you're not. you're in big trouble. what is he going to do? >> what does he have to do? >> i know you don't want him to do it. what does he have to do politically? >> well, i kind of agree with the idea that you do have to say go closer to an apology if not outright apologize. but even if you do that, there's a problem with that because the whole statement rests on the idea that obama has a base that is near half of the electorate so if he starts to back away and say i didn't mean the whole 47%, i meant like 20%, i meant 30%, then the whole argument falls apart so then you did mean to say exactly what you said. you were basically saying that there is a part of the electorate that is almost at a winning percentage that will vote for this president regardless because they feel they are victims and they are parasitic and that is a problem, i don't know how you fix this. every time i see him on television, the first press conference and interviews on fox news, neither one of those things -- it's almost better to just say nothing if he was going to do what he did. >> isn't the real problem for mitt romney is this lends succor to the argument that he is two-faced when it comes to principles and his political views? >> i think the worst kind of gaffes are the ones that confirm a stereotype. that was true of obama, with the they cling to guns and religion, he was seen as an elitist. i think it was true of george w. bush when the old dui came out where he seemed irresponsible. sometimes these aren't always fatal but they contribute to an image and it's a bad one. i think the best way for romney to combat that going forward is to actually have some policy to say about the mobility and advancement for the aspiring poor, to prove that you actually care about everyone by proposing policies that appeal to unexpected groups. the campaign hasn't done very much of that. they said they were going to make a pivot to be more policy oriented. i think that's one way to help get beyond that is to prove you care about the whole country by proposing some policy that appeals to the whole country. >> charles blow, the problem it seems to me, he believed the economy was his strong point and what barack obama has quite skillfully done i think with his team is attack him on his strong point, trying to portray bain as a murderous rampaging capitalist beast chucking people on the sword and now you have this situation. i will play a new obama ad which basically sums up how he will attack him. it's very, very damaging. watch this. >> so my job is not to worry about those people. i will never convince them. >> wow. >> i actually felt sick to my stomach. >> i don't like it. >> it shows that he's out of touch, that if he thinks half of the country is feeling like victims. >> victims, i wouldn't say so. i don't think that's part of the american fabric. >> we touched a little earlier on the victim thing. also, he had these other remarks about the palestinians and how they were basically going to be a block to any kind of peace over there. he's touched on the foreign policy aspect as we have seen with the libya gaffe and now this, it's pretty unsteady as it is and now in his own backyard of the economy, he suddenly looks vulnerable. >> well, the latest rounds of polls have basically said -- shown that obama is eating away at his edge on the economy which is bad news for him. i don't think it's necessarily right to cast it as the obama campaign making bain out to be villainous. there were parts of what bain did that were not helpful to people who were actually everyday workers. this is a fact. >> there's also a fact that many of the things bain did were successful turn-around of companies. >> right. it depends on what you call success. if it is making money for the investors of bain, yes, incredibly successful. if as mitt has basically made his campaign out to be, i am a job creator, i know how to create jobs, well, that is a very much more mixed picture and the obama campaign is pointing that out. they are not making those facts up. that is a very real thing. the other part of the economic issue is that mitt romney has taken advantage of a lot of tax loopholes that we know of and he won't release the other information we don't, about back taxes. he won't release those so we don't even know if mitt romney might be one of the people who didn't pay taxes that he's now slamming as part of the 47%. that's the problem for mitt romney. mitt romney made this problem. the obama campaign is basically just taking advantage of it. >> michael gerson, final word for you. obviously they are going to be in the bunker tonight thinking oh, my god, how do we get out of this, but there are ways to get out of it and we don't know quite what their strategy will be. do you think as things stand, that mitt romney can still win this election? >> oh, i think so. i think the president consistently at 50% or below in approval rating is a danger sign. presidents generally need to be in the very high 40s or low 50s in order to be re-elected. george bush was an exception in 2004, he was at 48% at his re-election. it's still a very tight race. you have 50 days. the problem is, this is a time when they need traction, when in fact they have a distraction. so i think this is wasting time. it's not only adding to a destructive stereotype, it's actually allowing them or not allowing them to gain some traction at a time that's really essential. >> michael gerson, charles blow, thank you both very much. coming up, politics and prayer. how does faith factor into the race for president? i'll ask two of america's best-known pastors, joel and victoria osteen. 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[ announcer ] we are insurance. ♪ we are farmers bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ i declare every person under the sound of my voice is blessed. >> joel osteen in miami in 2010. here's his wife victoria speaking the language of millions of americans when it comes to matters of faith but how about politics? they are pastors of lakewood church in houston and the new book is "i declare, 31 promises to speak over your life." joining me exclusively, joel and victoria osteen. welcome back. i feel like we're old friends now. >> i know. good to see you again. >> the worse i treat you, the more you come back for more. i like that. >> everybody thinks you're mean. i say he's the nicest guy. >> don't ruin my reputation. i know what you'll say to my first question. you'll say look, i never get involved in politics, it's your pat answer. but given the evangelical vote is so important to both barack obama and mitt romney, what do you say to your flock when they come and see you and say look, joel, i can't work out who to vote for, what do you say to them? >> well, piers, i just go back to a central theme of encouraging everybody to vote, to search their own heart, because it's interesting, good people of faith can read the scripture and interpret it differently. i have democrats and republicans in our church that love the lord, you know, that couldn't be any better people but they just, you know, different issues speak to them. >> the president, though, is a conventional christian. mitt romney is a mormon. and there are fundamental differences. the holy trinity definition in both is very, very different. the mormons believe there are the father, son and holy spirit. obviously the christian faith believes they're all the same thing. how do you deal with that? surely your natural leaning would be towards the guy that believes the same that you do. >> i think you're right in that instance. i think also, though, you look at the whole totality of the person and not just their faith, although their faith is important because it tells me their values and their characters, but i think as practical americans and as practical followers of christ, you look at their business experience and other areas as well. i like that saying that we're not just -- we're not electing a pastor of the nation, we're electing a leader and who can best lead. >> victoria, who do you prefer more? who is more charismatic to you? >> i think they're both amazing men. that's just going to have -- to people who are undecided, i would say to them watch the debates, learn as much as you can, and then vote. and i would definitely say vote, because everyone needs to vote. that's what makes this country a great country. i will definitely be voting. >> are you undecided? >> am i undecided? no. >> you have decided? >> well, i'm going to really enjoy watching the debates because i think -- >> what a couple of politicians. come on, joel. it's obvious he's a republican. what are you? >> i give you the same speech. we're trying to reach the whole group. to come on here and say we're democrat or republican, 50% of the people will say -- >> let me pin you down about leadership, because you alluded to business leadership. mitt romney clearly has a standout record of being a very successful businessman. but with that came allegations he was too ruthless, too hard, that bain capital in particular broke up companies, they tossed people on the woodpile, if you like. what do you think of his record as a businessman? are you concerned about that? >> well, you know what, i just see the ads and what i read, i think a lot of what we see on both candidates, not just him, are tainted, are inflated. i think when i look at president obama and mitt romney, they are hard working, good people that, you know, i don't fault mitt romney for his success. >> do you think it's wrong in modern day america that someone like mitt romney who has made hundreds of millions of dollars and probably not quite as much as you have, joel, but he's done okay for himself, that he gets lambasted for his success, for making that money, that somehow it's become a bad thing to be rich and successful in america? >> i do. i don't think we should look down on people that are successful. i don't think that's healthy. you know, i see somebody like mitt romney helping others and things so i, you know, the goal is not going to happen but it's for everybody to be successful and everybody to be blessed and healthy, not just with money but i don't think we ought to look down on somebody that's been successful. i want somebody successful running the country. president obama went to harvard and doing pretty well. you see mitt romney as well. >> i have interviewed him a few times now. he seems a perfectly nice, kind, well-intentioned guy. i think on the principle front, a little bit flip-floppy. you're not quite sure what he really stands for. but the real problem comes with what he says when he doesn't think the cameras are on him. we saw this yesterday with this video that came out, when he was pretty harsh. 47% of americans, half the country, are victims, living off the state, not paying tax, and completely disingenuous. most of those people do pay payroll tax or they are the elderly or veterans. it was a very clumsy thing to have done. you must feel offended when you hear him say something like that, don't you? >> here i go again, but i'm for mercy, i'm for seeing the best in people. >> being merciful towards mitt romney? >> in a presidential election, every sentence is scrutinized. they were knocking president obama the other day for the "you didn't build it" or whatever it is. that's not the heart of what they meant. you know, i probably have way too much mercy than some people but i just, i look at him and say it's admirable that they're trying to win this election and do good for our country because that's not an easy job. that's getting raked over the coals every day. >> we'll be right back. president obama: i'm barack obama and i approve... this message. anncr: he keeps saying it... mitt romney: this president cannot tell us that you're... better off today than when he took office. anncr: well... here's where we were in 2008... tv anncr: the worst financial collapse... since the great depression... tv anncr: american workers were laid off in numbers not seen... in over three decades. anncr: and here's where we are today... thirty months of private sector job growth. creating 4.6 million new jobs. we're not there yet. but the real question is: whose plan is better for you? the president's plan asks millionaires... to pay a little more... to help invest in a strong middle class. clean energy. and cut the deficit. mitt romney's plan? a new 250,000 dollar tax break for... multi-millionaires. roll back regulations on the banks that cratered the economy. and raise taxes on the middle class. president clinton: they want to go back to the same old... policies that got us in trouble in the first place. president obama: we're not going back, we are moving forward. anncr: forward. heavenly father, we thank you for this time with mr. president. lord, we just ask for your peace, for this nation, for your strength, for your wisdom, for the leaders. >> joel osteen with israeli president shimon peres. certainly as i went back to london all i could see was your grinning mug everywhere with copies of your book everywhere. how many have you done? >> this is my fourth major book. >> how many tens of millions of copies have you sold? >> i don't know. i sold a lot, though. >> you're not denying tens of millions, i noticed. >> i don't know about that. >> the first sold ten million. >> it did. it did. but you know, i write the books to hopefully help people and people get inspired behind them. there's a lot of things pushing people down so our ministry is about lifting people up, saying hey, don't get bitter, don't get discouraged, you know, stay in faith, stay positive. people are drawn to that because there is a lot of negativity. >> you do have this effect on me. every time i interview you, i go away and i feel happier. i feel better about myself although i feel deeply resentful you're selling more books than i did. what i wonder, when you do a book called "i declare" which is a smart premise, sort of a statement for every day of the month, and it's very positive driven, very get up and be glass half full, not glass half empty, but people will say it's a lot easier for you, mate, you're selling tens of millions of books, you're making hundreds of millions of dollars, you are married to this beautiful woman. life's pretty damn good for joel osteen. what about if i've lost my job, my house, my car, i can't feed my kids, as tens of millions of americans right now are going through that. what do you say about that? how do you convince them to take your lead? >> well, i think the big part of the ministry is that you know, we faced difficulties, too, but our hearts go out to people. americans are hurting, people all over the world. the important thing is if you get up in the morning, saying life is lousy, there's nothing good in my future, i don't want to go to work, i don't feel well, you will negativeity. it's hard, i'm not saying it's easy, especially when things are coming against you. you got to find something to be grateful for. >> when i saw the video there, it was pretty controversial because this is a very sensitive thing out there, isn't it, mitt romney himself got into more trouble when more of that video came out. it was basically him saying he doesn't think there can be peace and pretty well blaming the palestinians. you obviously interviewed peres. did you get flack from the palestinians? did you worry about dipping your toe into a very hot political situation? >> you know, i didn't, because piers, the foundation of our faith is based out of israel and the scripture tells us to pray for peace in jerusalem. i went over certainly not as a political leader but as a friend to the people. we don't shun somebody, the palestinian people or anybody else, but just happened to be there holding an event there so i felt very honored to pray with him. >> we got a picture of joel on a beach which we thought we would show victoria. there we are. pretty damn impressive. is he into this p-90x thing? >> let's see. >> the paul ryan -- >> it's just all natural. >> really? >> he works out. >> i work out. >> every day? >> no, i don't work out every day. i like to work out. i grew up playing sports. i like to run, lift weights, play sports. it's natural to me. >> not bad. another reason to hate you. >> well. >> if you weren't such a nice bloke, it would be easy to hate you. >> thank you. >> when people go to vote now in november, what is the key message? if you had barack obama and mitt romney here, you wanted them to declare things, what do you want them to declare truthfully to the electorate to make a decision about them? >> well, i don't know if i can give them advice. the book is about declaring, declare god's faithfulness in my life, declare god's wisdom in my life, declare that i have favor from god to make the right decision. >> those are great things for them to declare. >> sure. but when you see them taking out ads, for example, which are deliberately negative, often flagrantly untrue, just really unpleasant, nasty attack ads, do you think that should stop in this country? you think it's just poison? >> i would love for it to but it seems as long as i can remember, it's always happened and from what i hear, the negative seems to work. it's a shame -- >> would you like it to stop? >> i would love it to stop. i would love it to stay on a higher level. i don't know if that's practical but i think it would be great if it would. i think things are taken out of context and you know, amplified and it's not necessarily like you said the full truth. >> it's been a pleasure to see you both again. unfortunately, i have to declare this interview over. i'm sure we will meet again very soon with the next book or whatever it may be. "31 promises to speak over your life." i will read this tonight, i know i will feel better tomorrow so tomorrow night's interviews will be a lot happier all around than today's have been. lovely to see you. coming up, a pop star who has a lot to say about politics. wyclef jean had his own presidential ambitions. i will ask him what he thinks about the race between mitt romney and president obama. capella university understands businesses are trying to come back from rough economic times. employees are being forced to do more with less. and the need for capable leaders is greater than ever. when you see these problems do you take a step back, or do you want to dive right in? with a degree in business from capella university, you'll have the knowledge to go further in your career than you ever thought possible. let's get started at capella.edu ♪ chirping beeping camera ahhhh drill sound chirping electric shaver shaking remote tapping sound shaking drill chirping tapping shaking remote wouldn't it be great to have one less battery to worry about? car honking irping the 2012 sonata hybrid. the only hybrid with a lifetime hybrid battery warranty. from hyundai. agents, say hello to the biggest hailstone in u.s. history. oh, that will leave a dent. which is exactly why we educate people... about comprehensive coverage. yep. the right choice now can pay off later. [ announcer ] we are insurance. ♪ we are farmers bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ plenty of hip-hop stars are opinionated when it comes to politics but not very many have attempt tod run for office themselves like wyclef jean. he rose from poverty and became a huge star with the fugees while developing a passion for politics. his new book details his struggles and successes and he joins me now for his first prime time interview. welcome. good to see you. here's the deal. you can either be involved in music or politics for the rest of your life, you can't do both, what would you choose? >> i would choose if i was in my 20s, i would say music. being in my 40s, i would definitely say politics. >> why are you so enthused by it? >> politics came from my uncle, ray joseph, the haiti ambassador to america, so politics has always been an undertone in the household. >> you're a surprising character. you voted for obama and down to perform the rnc convention this year, and you pulled out. what's that all about? >> the first thing is is i did not agree to perform at the rnc. willie nelson pulled out. you know what i'm saying? willie, you're my man, but that's who pulled out. what came across, the e-mail of my management, was something that said, a performance for veterans, and disabled, which i perform for vets. i had people that was in the military. once the e-mail went down, and it was like, rnc, i was like, you all know i can't do that. now, i'm not doing it because i have -- tend of the day, i have friends that are republican. you know, they are just going to vote for obama this time around. you know what i mean? >> yeah yeah. a lot of republican friends feel obama is the way to go. >> have you ever been republican, or always resolutely a democrat? >> coming from haiti, landing in the projects in brooklyn, going from welfare to public school, me and my brother, he goes to eastern nazarean college, and he goes to boston university. automatically, all my life, i would naturally be dem rat. >> jean. that's the french jean. >> it's actually jean, but what happened is my dad actually named me after the englishmen, so partially right and wrong. so he named me after wycleaf jean. >> but you are actually wycleaf jean. >> in texas, though, wycleaf jean. >> how do you think obama is doing? he has 49 days left to save the world and get re-elected. >> if i'm being critical, where we're at right now with the first term, he didn't get a bipartisan front, and what i mean by that, a lot of things he was trying to go for, congress was not allowing him to go through. and i think when it comes to his re-election, i think he's doing great, and i think -- i don't really think. i believe that he will be the next president. >> when you hear mitt romney as you did yesterday in the secret tape emerged, talking about being half of america being victims, living off the state, not paying taxes, a very smeary condemning kind of rhetoric he used, how did you feel about that? >> i felt offended. offended in the sense i told you my story, coming from a background where we was in poverty and got a chance to make it in the american dream. i think that's the story. at the same time, i want to be clear, i have super, super rich friends that were always rich. but at the same time, they don't look down at us as if we're nothing, and the idea is people are people, and i think the government still plays a crucial part of what we do. >> what does it come down to you, this election? what do you think those still trying to make their minds up should really focus on? >> if you follow wycleaf jean on twitter, which i have over 1 million, probably more than that. i think we need a president who has a cool head, not a president that reacts off emotion or anger. if you look at what's going on outside of america, with the rest of the world, you have to have somebody that comes in and understand that. the second part of it is, of course, i think the economy is crucial. we have to put people back to work. and i think with obama's second term, i think that he'll realize that. >> well, it's been a real pleasure. the book is a fascinating read "purpose." come back and see us again. >> thank you, sir. >> a man who gives new meaning to going for gold. [ woman ] it's 32 minutes to go time, and the candidate's speech is in pieces all over the district. the writer's desktop and the coordinator's phone are working on a joke with local color. the secure cloud just received a revised intro from the strategist's tablet. and while i make my way into the venue, the candidate will be rehearsing off of his phone. [ candidate ] and thanks to every young face i see out there. [ woman ] his phone is one of his biggest supporters. [ female announcer ] with cisco at the center... working together has never worked so well. ♪ [ male announcer ] introducing a stunning work of technology. introducing the entirely new lexus es. and the first-ever es hybrid. this is the pursuit of perfection. and get outstanding deals with the travelocity fall hotel sale. you can save up to 40% on select hotels. so book your hotel now and save up to 40%. hurry, offer ends soon. book now at travelocity. tonight, "only in america," as good as gold. cast your mind a few months, ages in political terms. remember when ron paul was on the campaign trail, logging his country back to the gold standard. >> i wish we would could get back to the sound currency and get back to the gold standard. >> one american took ron paul very, very seriously. meet walter somasco jr. the 69-year-old nevada man who was a reclus who hadn't worked in more than 40 years and had only $200 in his checking account. he had $7 million -- you heard me -- $7 million worth of gold
we're electing a leader and who can best lead. >> returning, the only guest who ever bothers to pray for me. >> i say he's the nicest guy. >> joel and victoria osteen. and wyclef jean on romney's 47% comment. >> the government still plays a crucial part of what we do. >> this is "piers morgan tonight." good evening. our big story tonight, mitt romney's meltdown. the storm over the candidate's remarks recorded at a private fund-raising event in may shows no sign of bwing over. >> these are people who pay no income tax. 47% of americans pay no income tax so our message of low taxes doesn't connect. they'll be out there talking about tax cuts for the rich. that's what they celebrate every four years. so my job is not to worry about those people. i'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives. >> the white house has responded with full barrels. listen to what the president told david letterman tonight. >> one of the things i've learned as president is you represent the entire country. >> just how bad is all this for mitt romney? is it really good for the president? joining me is senate majority whip, dick durbin. thank you for joining me. are you guys rubbing your hands with glee? do you think it's a game-changing moment in this election battle? >> it's certainly an insight into the mind of mitt romney. this was a moment when he was speaking to his closest friends and supporters and he really writes off almost half of america as people without personal responsibility, who view themselves as victims. it wasn't too much of a surprise, really. he was the one who said corporations are persons and the gaffes along the way really kind of lean to a lifestyle that most middle income americans just would never appreciate or certainly wouldn't understand. so i think it's further insight into romney and his values. >> he is trying to sort of spin this as well, it's just an illustration albeit clumsily phrased of the message we are trying to ram home. listen to what he told fox news earlier. >> this is a message i'm carrying day in and day out and will carry over the coming months, which is this is a decision about the course of america, and where we're going to head, and we've seen the president's policies play out over the last four years. >> if that had been his only reaction, then perhaps he may have got a bit of escape route out of this but last night looked like he was panicking, he raced to the cameras, he looked a little bit beleaguered when he did that. clearly, judging by the way the polls are moving, and the general mood about mitt romney, he's in trouble now, isn't he? >> well, certainly he's lking himself into trouble. last night, remember what he said, that was inelegant, the way i expressed it. well, i would have said well, you had some time to think about it, add your fair share of elegance to your statement, and tell us what you really meant. i'm afraid what we're hearing from him is basically he thinks people, working families that send their kids off to college with a government loan are somehow victims, have a mindset that they're victims or those that are drawing medicare after paying into it for a lifetime don't have personal responsibility? i mean, that doesn't sound to me like a good understanding of what the struggle is in america for so many working families who are doing their best to take care of their kids and plan for their future. >> we also saw after the appalling events in libya a few days ago, a kind of spontaneous and perhaps very ill-advised spontaneous reaction from mitt romney by sort of common agreement that he jumped in very quickly to attack the president at a time when it may have been more prudent to have just backed off, waited for the facts and supported the president and the country through that period. what of that and his comments in the video about the palestinians where he kind of lays the blame at their feet completely, it seems, against israel? what do you think about his hand on the foreign policy tiller? >> well, he's certainly been bumbling when it comes to domestic policy and way beyond his element and comfort level when it comes to foreign policy. i mean, how can you visit england, our trusted ally, and say something that was so outrageous that it turns the british people against him and the comments he made about the olympics. it was just a ham-handed approach to something that should have been a very easy assignment for even a presidential candidate. >> i think the problem with that was, i was in england at the time and of course, everyone in england was saying exactly the same thing as mitt romney. it's just a bit like going to somebody's house and saying you don't like their curtains. it's not for him to say. for now, thank you very much. >> good to be with you. now we go to one of mitt romney's strongest advocates and outspoken voice in the republican party. donald trump joins me on the phone. how are you? >> hello, piers. >> your man's in a little trouble. he's dug himself a monumental hole. >> no, i don't think so at all. i think people like to say that. i don't think so at all. it's a debate that has to be had. i guess he brought it out into the open but i don't think so at all and i don't think he should be apologizing for anything. and they should just continue on with the polls, they're showing very close. it will be a tight race no matter how you look at it but it's a point of view and it's probably something that they have to have out at some point. >> are the media making too much of this, do you think? >> yes, absolutely. they make a big deal out of it and frankly, he's been saying similar things on the campaign stump. he's been going out and he's been discussing this. this is something that has to be discussed, and as you know, there are tremendous numbers of people, whether it's 47% or close to 50%, that don't pay taxes and don't pay income taxes, and probably lots of other taxes, so this is really a discussion and a debate and it has to go forward. and let's see how it ends . >> one of the problems, it seems to me, if you actually analyze the 47% who supposedly don't pay tax in the way that he put it, many of them reside in states that are supportive to mitt romney, so it's a real shoot yourself in the foot moment, isn't it? >> i don't think so. i think it's really something and a point that is going to be discussed over the next 50 days, and there are two sides to it, and it's come out and a lot of people wanted it to come out, because they really feel that it's a very, very vital thing. it has to be discussed. >> you have always been somebody who calls a spade a spade, and i'm sure that you have been talking to mitt romney. he's clearly having a rocky time in this campaign. everyone can see that. what advice do you give him to get things back on track? do you want to see him go harder at barack obama? >> well, i have to think that it's been a pretty rough period because everything he says, they attack him and i think he's going to have to get very tough and frankly, he's got to fight fire with fire. they're blaming him for egypt, okay? this is a beauty. they blamed him the other day for egypt. now, egypt's blowing up with a horrible foreign policy that we had, and they actually put the blame on mitt romney. i said what did he have to do with egypt? it really is, it's a nasty campaign and honestly, mitt is going to have to be both very smart, which he is, and very nasty, which frankly, he's not. and he's got to get that way because they are coming at him with all barrels loaded and he's going to have to get that way and very quickly, in my opinion. when i see what happened with, as an example, the memo or the statement he made having to do with libya, and having to do with other things, having to do with egypt, and he's getting blamed for all this, it's incredible. he has nothing to do with it. >> part of his problem, donald, it seems, is he seems to have this inability to talk in a way that people find relatable to the common man and woman in america. i don't know if it's appropriate for you to get into this because you are a very rich guy, much richer than mitt romney but you always had the ability to communicate with the poorer man on the streets. i have been around you and they all seem to relate to you. how can he work on that? how can he improve the way he relates to people? >> you know, as you know better than anyone, i just want to congratulate you because i'm just hearing great things about your show and how well you're doing and i'm very proud of you, because of your success on the "apprentice." every time i watch i'm proud of you. but i have to say that you are born a certain way. he's a gentleman, he's a very smart guy. i think he can be a very tough guy and i think he's somebody that will make a great president. that doesn't mean he's going to be a great campaigner, but he will be a great president. there are very, very different abilities and i really think ultimately, people will see through all of this, but he's being blamed for things that he has nothing to do with, and he frankly, you know, the statement that he made, the recent statement that's causing all this fuss, it's being built up, built up by the media, built up by the obama folks, and i don't blame them for doing it. i blame the media but i don't blame the obama folks if they can get away with it for doing exactly what they're doing. but i really think that mitt can handle pressure well. that was proven to me during the debates, if you remember, in florida. he went into florida having to win the debates, having to win florida. he was in trouble. he won both debates easily and he did a fantastic job. i actually told him it was the best political week of his life. he did a fantastic job. he won florida and then he took it from there. he's very good under pressure. i think that the debates and especially the first debate will be vital to both sides. you know, don't forget, you're talking about mitt. the fact is most of the polls have him just about even right now and in some cases, they have mitt up and in some cases, they have the president up, but it's a very, very close race. and i have a feeling he's going to react very well under pressure, as he did in florida, piers. >> have you spoken to him since this whole secret video story blew up? >> i have. >> how was he? >> i think he's fine. it's a debate that is going to be had and it's a debate that should be had, and people are going to be talking about it and i think that's a good thing, not a bad thing. >> do you still believe fundamentally that mitt romney can win this eleion, donald? >> well, absolutely. look at the polls. they're showing even. he's up in north carolina. he's about even or maybe even winning in florida. he's slightly down in ohio. absolutely i think he can, and i think the other side believes he can and frankly, a lot's going to happen over the next 50 days. don't forget, he saved his money and they're going to do a massive campaign, whereas president obama has spent much of his money already, but they have been very i think wisely, now, time will tell, i'll tell you in about 51 days, but they have been i think very wisely save their money and now you're going to have a blitz. let's see how that works. let's see how it comes out but they have a tremendous amount of money which they haven't spent, the other sideas spent a lot of its money. >> do you think that it's fair that super pacs can spend tens of millions of dollars and therefore, the one with the most money can, if they're smart, effectively buy an election? >> well, number one, i don't think you can buy the election. but it doesn't matter what i think. the supreme court said it was fine. so you have people on the supreme court, they voted in favor of that, so you know, it's irrelevant what i think. but the court certainly said it was fine. >> from your conversation with mitt romney, he's a bit battered but not beaten? >> oh, no. just the opposite. i think he's really ready now to start going, and i think you're going to see somebody, remember what i said. some people, and i have known many, many people. you happen to be one of them. you reacted very well under pressure and i got to know you very much under pressure. some people react very well under pressure. most people don't. mitt romney reacted very, very well under pressure and that was during, in particular, florida, he had to win that state. otherwise it was over. not only did he win the debates and newt is very tough and very good as a debater, and he won the debates and he won florida. that was under great stress, under great pressure. so let's see how he does. i think you'll be very surprised. >> donald trump, thank you for joining me. >> thank you very much, piers. >> donald trump not the only one fired up about this. when we come back, political all-stars go toe-to-toe. i predict this will get lively. ♪ [ female announcer ] pop in a whole new kind of clean. with tide pods. just one removes more stains than the 6 next leading pacs combined pop in. stand out. ♪ wow... 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[ male announcer ] now get 50% off brake pads and shoes at meineke. i don't know what he was referring to, but i can tell you this. when i won in 2008, 47% of the american people voted for john mccain. they didn't vote for me. and what i said on election night was even though you didn't vote for me, i hear your voices and i'm going to work as hard as i can to be your president, and one of the things i've learned as president is you represent the entire country. >> president obama talking to david letterman tonight, two very articulate people on opposite sides of this debate. "new york times" columnist david groh. on the face of it, this is a monumental gaffe by mitt romney because whichever way you try to spin it, it's basically calling half of america a bunch of scrounging victims. >> romney must have honey on his toes because he can't keep his foot out of his mouth. there is no way for mitt romney to walk back what he has said. he has basically said, there are a couple words that stand out. victim, right? when you talk about casual observers, these are not people who read the "new york times" and "washington post" every day. they will glance by news and see snippets on television. these things stand out, calling 47% of americans victims who are dependent on government. also saying, and this is think is a pivotal part of that clip, is it is not my job to worry about these people. >> michael gerson, it's very, very hard to defend this, isn't it? if you're in the romney camp, it comes off the back of another couple major gaffes by common consensus major gaffes, including the libyan, way he behaved over that attack. when you are in that camp now, what do you do? how do you get him out of this hole? >> well, there are only a couple of responses in a case like this, because it's hard to disagree with that analysis of this quote. you say what i really meant to say was and that's what he's done. i really meant to say government's too large and will bankrupt the country and try to get it back to a more sustainable ideological argument until the press moves on to the next thing, or you can say i was wrong, at least in part, which maybe is what he should say here. the government is too large but the reality here is that most people want to improve their own lives and i'm going to appeal to everyone and i made a mistake. i don't think politicians do that enough. >> there's a new "wall street journal" poll tonight and nbc news combined with them gives the president his highest job approval rating since march at 50%. it also shows mr. romney among likely voters, 50% to 45% so 5% clear lead with just two weeks before the campaign hits a major landmark with the first debate. if you're mitt romney, you are in big trouble now. there's no way of saying you're not. you're in big trouble. what is he going to do? >> what does he have to do? >> i know you don't want him to do it. what does he have to do politically? >> well, i kind of agree with the idea that you do have to say go closer to an apology if not outright apologize. but even if you do that, there's a problem with that because the whole statement rests on the idea that obama has a base that is near half of the electorate so if he starts to back away and say i didn't mean the whole 47%, i meant like 20%, i meant 30%, then the whole argument falls apart so then you did mean to say exactly what you said. you were basically saying that there is a part of the electorate that is almost at a winning percentage that will vote for this president regardless because they feel they are victims and they are parasitic and that is a problem, i don't know how you fix this. evertime i see him on television, the first press conference and interviews on fox news, neither one of those things -- it's almost better to just say nothing if he was going to do what he did. >> isn't the real problem for mitt romney is this lends succor to the argument that he is two-faced when it comes to principles and his political views? >> i think the worst kind of gaffes are the ones that confirm a stereotype. that was true of obama, with the they cling to guns and religion, he was seen as an elitist. i think it was true of george w. bush when the old dui came out where he seemed irresponsible. sometimes these aren't always fatal but they contribute to an image and it's a bad one. i think the best way for romney to combat that going forward is to actually have some policy to say about the mobility and advancement for the aspiring poor, to prove that you actually care about everyone by proposing policies that appeal to unexpected groups. the campaign hasn't done very much of that. they said they were going to make a pivot to be more policy oriented. i think that's one way to help get beyond that is to prove you care about the whole country by proposing some policy that appeals to the whole country. >> charles blow, the problem it seems to me, he believed the economy was his strong point and what barack obama has quite skillfully done i think with his team is attack him on his strong point, trying to portray bain as a murderous rampaging capitalist beast chucking people on the sword and now you have this situation. i will play a new obama ad which basically sums up how he will attack him. it's very, very damaging. watch this. >> so my job is not to worry about those people. i will never convince them. >> wow. >> i actually felt sick to my stomach. >> i don't like it. >> it shows that he's out of touch, that if he thinks half of the country is feeling like victims. >> victims, i wouldn't say so. i don't think that's part of the american fabric. >> we touched a little earlier on the victim thing. also, he had these other remarks about the palestinians and how they were basically going to be a block to any kind of peace over there. he's touched on the foreign policy aspect as we have seen with the libya gaffe and now this, it's pretty unsteady as it is and now in his own backyard of the economy, he suddenly looks vulnerable. >> well, the latest rounds of polls have basically said -- shown that obama is eating away at his edge on the economy which is bad news for him. i don't think it's necessarily right to cast it as the obama campaign making bain out to be villainous. there were parts of what bain did that were not helpful to people who were actually everyday workers. this is a fact. >> there's also a fact that many of the things bain did were successful turn-around of companies. >> right. it depends on what you call success. if it is making money for the investors of bain, yes, incredibly successful. if as mitt has basically made his campaign out to be, i am a job creator, i know how to create jobs, well, that is a very much more mixed picture and the obama campaign is pointing that out. they are not making those facts up. that is a very real thing. the other part of the economic issue is that mitt romney has taken advantage of a lot of tax loopholes that we know of and he won't release the other information we don't, about back taxes. he won't release those so we don't even know if mitt romney might be one of the people who didn't pay taxes that he's now slamming as part of the 47%. that's the problem for mitt romney. mitt romney made this problem. the obama campaign is basically just taking advantage of it. >> michaelerson, final word for you. obviously they are going to be in the bunker tonight thinking oh, my god, how do we get out of this, but there are ways to get out of it and we don't know quite what their strategy will be. do you think as things stand, that mitt romney can still win this election? >> oh, i think so. i think the president consistently at 50% or below in approval rating is a danger sign. presidents generally need to be in the very high 40s or low 50s in order to be re-elected. george bush was an exception in 2004, he was at 48% at his re-election. it's still a very tight race. you have 50 days. the problem is, this is a time when they need traction, when in fact they have a distraction. so i think this is wasting time. it's not only adding to a destructive stereotype, it's actually allowing them or not allowing them to gain some traction at a time that's really essential. >> michael gerson, charles blow, thank you both very much. coming up, politics and prayer. how does faith factor into the race for president? i'll ask two of america's best-known pastors, joel and victoria osteen. [ male announcer ] if you stash tissues like a squirrel stashes nuts, you may be muddling through allergies. try zyrtec® liquid gels. nothing starts working faster than zyrtec® at relieving your allergy symptoms for 24 hours. zyrtec®. love the air. and get outstanding deals with the travelocity fall hotel sale. you can save up to 40% on select hotels. so book your hotel now and save up to 40%. hurry, offer ends soon. book now at travelocity. i declare every person under the sound of my voice is blessed. >> joel osteen in miami in 2010. here's his wife victoria speaking the language of millions of americans when it comes to matters of faith but how about politics? they are pastors of lakewood church in houston and the new book is "i declare, 31 promises to speak over your life." joining me exclusively, joel and victoria osteen. welcome back. i feel like we're old friends now. >> i know. good to see you again. >> the worse i treat you, the more you come back for more. i like that. >> everybody thinks you're mean. i say he's the nicest guy. >> don't ruin my reputation. i know what you'll say to my first question. you'll say look, i never get involved in politics, it's your pat answer. but given the evangelical vote is so important to both barack obama and mitt romney, what do you say to your flock when they come and see you and say look, joel, i can't work out who to vote for, what do you say to them? >> well, piers, i just go back to a central theme of encouraging everybody to vote, to search their own heart, because it's interesting, good people of faith can read the scripture and interpret it differently. i have democrats and republicans in our church that love the lord, you know, that couldn't be any better people but they just, you know, different issues speak to them. >> the president, though, is a conventional christian. mitt romney is a mormon. and there are fundamental differences. the holy trinity definition in both is very, very different. the mormons believe there are the father, son and holy spirit. obviously the christian faith believes they're all the same thing. how do you deal with that? surely your natural leaning would be towards the guy that believes the same that you do. >> i think you're right in that instance. i think also, though, you look at the whole totality of the person and not just their faith, although their faith is important because it tells me their values and their characters, but i think as practical americans and as practical followers of christ, you look at their business experience and other areas as well. i like that saying that we're not just -- we're not electing a pastor of the nation, we're electing a leader and who can best lead. >> victoria, who do you prefer more? who is more charismatic to you? >> i think they're both amazing men. that's just going to have -- to people who are undecided, i would say to them watch the debates, learn as much as you can, and then vote. and i would definitely say vote, because everyone needs to vote. that's what makes this country a great country. i will definitely be voting. >> are you undecided? >> am i undecided? no. >> you have decided? >> well, i'm going to really enjoy watching the debates because i think -- >> what a couple of politicians. come on, joel. it's obvious he's a republican. what are you? >> i give you the same speech. we're trying to reach the whole group. to come on here and say we're democrat or republican, 50% of the people will say -- >> let me pin you down about leadership, because you alluded to business leadership. mitt romney clearly has a standout record of being a very successful businessman. but with that came allegations he was too ruthless, too hard, that bain capital in particular broke up companies, they tossed people on the woodpile, if you like. what do you think of his record as a businessman? are you concerned about that? >> well, you know what, i just see the ads and what i read, i think a lot of what we see on both candidates, not just him, are tainted, are inflated. i think when i look at president obama and mitt romney, they are hard working, good people that, you know, i don't fault mitt romney for his success. >> do you think it's wrong in modern day america that someone like mitt romney who has made hundreds of millions of dollars and probably not quite as much as you have, joel, but he's done okay for himself, that he gets lambasted for his success, for making that money, that somehow it's become a bad thing to be rich and successful in america? >> i do. i don't think we should look down on people that are successful. i don't think that's healthy. you know, i see somebody like mitt romney helping others and things so i, you know, the goal is not going to happen but it's for everybody to be successful and everybody to be blessed and healthy, not just with money but i don't think we ought to look down on somebody that's been successful. i want somebody successful running the country. president obama went to harvard and doing pretty well. you see mitt romney as well. >> i have interviewed him a few times now. he seems a perfectly nice, kind, well-intentioned guy. i think on the principle front, a little bit flip-floppy. you're not quite sure what he really stands for. but the real problem comes with what he says when he doesn't think the cameras are on him. we saw this yesterday with this video that came out, when he was pretty harsh. 47% of americans, half the country, are victims, living off the state, not paying tax, and completely disingenuous. most of those people do pay payroll tax or they are the elderly or veterans. it was a very clumsy thing to have done. you must feel offended when you hear him say something like that, don't you? >> here i go again, but i'm for mercy, i'm for seeing the best in people. >> being merciful towards mitt romney? >> in a presidential election, every sentence is scrutinized. they were knocking president obama the other day for the "you didn't build it" or whatever it is. that's not the heart of what they meant. you know, i probably have way too much mercy than some people but i just, i look at him and say it's admirable that they're trying to win this election and do good for our country because that's not an easy job. that's getting raked over the coals every day. >> we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] if you believe the mayan calendar, on december 21st polar shifts will reverse the earth's gravitational pull and hurtle us all into space. which would render retirement planning unnecessary. but say the sun rises on december 22nd, and you still need to retire. td ameritrade's investment consultants can help you build a plan that fits your life. we'll even throw in up to $600 when you open a new account or roll over an old 401(k). so who's in control now, mayans? heavenly father, we thank you for this time with mr. president. lord, we just ask for your peace, for this nation, for your strength, for your wisdom, for the leaders. >> joel osteen with israeli president shimon peres. certainly as i went back to london all i could see was your grinning mug everywhere with copies of your book everywhere. how many have you done? >> this is my fourth major book. >> how many tens of millions of copies have you sold? >> i don't know. i sold a lot, though. >> you're not denying tens of millions, i noticed. >> i don't know about that. >> the first sold ten million. >> it did. it did. but you know, i write the books to hopefully help people and people get inspired behind them. there's a lot of things pushing people down so our ministry is about lifting people up, saying hey, don't get bitter, don't get discouraged, you know, stay in faith, stay positive. people are drawn to that because there is a lot of negativity. >> you do have this effect on me. every time i interview you, i go away and i feel happier. i feel better about myself although i feel deeply resentful you're selling more books than i did. what i wonder, when you do a book called "i declare" which is a smart premise, sort of a statement for every day of the month, and it's very positive driven, very get up and be glass half full, not glass half empty, but people will say it's a lot easier for you, mate, you're selling tens of millions of books, you're making hundreds of millions of dollars, you are married to this beautiful woman. life's pretty damn good for joel osteen. what about if i've lost my job, my house, my car, i can't feed my kids, as tens of millions of americans right now are going through that. what do you say about that? how do you convince them to take your lead? >> well, i think the big part of the ministry is that you know, we faced difficulties, too, but our hearts go out to people. americans are hurting, people all over the world. the important thing is if you get up in the morning, saying life is lousy, there's nothing good in my future, i don't want to go to work, i don't feel well, you will negativeity. it's hard, i'm not saying it's easy, especially when things are coming against you. you got to find something to be grateful for. >> when i saw the video there, it was pretty controversial because this is a very sensitive ing out there, isn't it, mitt romney himself got into more trouble when more of that video came out. it was basically him saying he doesn't think there can be peace and pretty well blaming the palestinians. you obviously interviewed peres. did you get flack from the palestinians? did you worry about dipping your toe into a very hot political situation? >> you know, i didn't, because piers, the foundation of our faith is based out of israel and the scripture tells us to pray for peace in jerusalem. i went over certainly not as a political leader but as a friend to the people. we don't shun somebody, the palestinian people or anybody else, but just happened to be there holding an event there so i felt very honored to pray with him. >> we got a picture of joel on a beach which we thought we would show victoria. there we are. pretty damn impressive. is he into this p-90x thing? >> let's see. >> the paul ryan -- >> it's just all natural. >> really? >> he works out. >> i work out. >> every day? >> no, i don't work out every day. i like to work out. i grew up playing sports. i like to run, lift weights, play sports. it's natural to me. >> not bad. another reason to hate you. >> well. >> if you weren't such a nice bloke, it would be easy to hate you. >> thank you. >> when people go to vote now in november, what is the key message? if you had barack obama and mitt romney here, you wanted them to declare things, what do you want them to declare truthfully to the electorate to make a decision about them? >> well, i don't know if i can give them advice. the book is about declaring, declare god's faithfulness in my life, declare god's wisdom in my life, declare that i have favor from god to make the right decision. >> those are great things for them to declare. >> sure. but when you see them taking out ads, for example, which are deliberately negative, often flagrantly untrue, just really unpleasant, nasty attack ads, do you think that should stop in this country? you think it's just poison? >> i would love for it to but it seems as long as i can remember, it's always happened and from what i hear, the negative seems to work. it's a shame -- >> would you like it to stop? >> i would love it to stop. i would love it to stay on a higher level. i don't know if that's practical but i think it would be great if it would. i think things are taken out of context and you know, amplified and it's not necessarily like you said the full truth. >> it's been a pleasure to see you both again. unfortunately, i have to declare this interview over. i'm sure we will meet again very soon with the next book or whatever it may be. "31 promises to speak over your life." i will read this tonight, i know i will feel better tomorrow so tomorrow night's interviews will be a lot happier all around than today's have been. lovely to see you. coming up, a pop star who has a lot to say about politics. wyclef jean had his own presidential ambitions. i will ask him what he thinks about the race between mitt romney and president obama. but today...( sfx: loud noise of large metal object hitting the ground) things have been a little strange. (sfx: sound of piano smashing) roadrunner: meep meep. meep meep? (sfx: loud thud sound) what a strange place. geico®. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. plenty of hip-hop stars are opinionated when it comes to politics but not very many have attempt tod run for office themselves like wyclef jean. he rose from poverty and became a huge star with the fugees while developing a passion for politics. his new book details his struggles and successes and he joins me now for his first prime time interview. welcome. good to see you. >> good to see you too. >> here is the deal. you can either be involved in music or politics for the rest of your life, you can't do both, what would you choose? >> i would choose if i was in my 20s, i would say music. being in my 40s, i would definitely say politics. >> why are you so enthused by it? >> politics came from my uncle, ray joseph, the haiti ambassador to america, so politics has always been an undertone in the household. >> you're a surprising character. you voted for obama and down to perform the rnc convention this year, and you pulled out. what's that all about? >> the first thing is is i did not agree to perform at the rnc. willie nelson pulled out. you know what i'm saying? willie, you're my man, but that's who pulled out. what came across, the e-mail of my management, was something that said, a performance for veterans, and disabled, which i perform for vets. i had people that was in the military. once the e-mail went down, and it was like, rnc, i was like, you all know i can't do that. now, i'm not doing it because i have -- tend of the day, i have friends that are republican. you know, they are just going to vote for obama this time around. you know what i mean? >> yeah yeah. a lot of republican friends feel obama is the way to go. >> have you ever been republican, or always resolutely a democrat? >> coming from haiti, landing in the projects in brooklyn, going from welfare to public school, me and my brother, he goes to eastern nazarean college, and he goes to boston university. automatically, all my life, i would naturally be democrat. >> jean. that's the french jean. >> it's actually jean, but what happened is my dad actually named me after the englishmen, so partially right and wrong. so he named me after wycleaf jean. >> but you are actually wycleaf jean. >> in texas, though, wycleaf jean. >> how do you think obama is doing? he has 49 days left to save the world and get re-elected. >> if i'm being critical, where we're at right now with the first term, he didn't get a bipartisan front, and what i mean by that, a lot of things he was trying to go for, congress was not allowing him to go through. and i think when it comes to his re-election, i think he's doing great, and i think -- i don't really think. i believe that he will be the next president. >> when you hear mitt romney as you did yesterday in the secret tape emerged, talking about being half of america being victims, living off the state, not paying taxes, a very smeary condemning kind of rhetoric he used, how did you feel about that? >> i felt offended. offended in the sense i told you my story, coming from a background where we was in poverty and got a chance to make it in the american dream. i think that's the story. at the same time, i want to be clear, i have super, super rich friends that were always rich. but at the same time, they don't look down at us as if we're nothing, and the idea is people are people, and i think the government still plays a crucial part of what we do. >> what does it come down to you, this election? what do you think those still trying to make their minds up should really focus on? >> if you follow wycleaf jean on twitter, which i have over 1 million, probably more than that. i think we need a president who has a cool head, not a president that reacts off emotion or anger. if you look at what's going on outside of america, with the rest of the world, you have to have somebody that comes in and understand that. the second part of it is, of course, i think the economy is crucial. we have to put people back to work. and i think with obama's second term, i think that he'll realize that. >> well, it's been a real pleasure the book is a fascinating read "purpose." come back and see us again. >> thank you, sir. >> a man who gives new meaning to going for gold. i'm only in my 60's... i've got a nice long life ahead. big plans. so when i found out medicare doesn't pay all my medical expenses, i looked at my options. then i got a medicare supplement insurance plan. 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[ male announcer ] join the millions of people who have already enrolled in the only medicare supplement insurance plans endorsed by aarp, an organization serving the needs of people 50 and over for generations. remember, all medicare supplement insurance plans help cover what medicare doesn't pay. and could save you thousands a year in out-of-pocket costs. call now to request your free decision guide. and learn more about the kinds of plans that will be here for you now -- and down the road. i have a lifetime of experience. so i know how important that is. try capzasin-hp. it penetrates deep to block pain signals for hours of relief. capzasin-hp. take the pain out of arthritis. tonight, "only in america," as good as gold. cast your mind a few months, ages in political terms. remember when ron paul was on the campaign trail, logging his country back to the gold standard. >> i wish we would could get back to the sound currency and get back to the gold standard. >> one american took ron paul very, very seriously. meet walter somasco jr. the 69-year-old nevada man who was a reclus who hadn't worked in more than 40 years and had only $200 in his checking account. he had $7 million -- you heard me -- $7 million worth of gold coins in his garage. >> i never seen that much gold in my life. >> the amount of it wa
i'm going to vote for, but -- >> the middle east. >> the foundation of our faith is based out of israel. >> and if this country is ready for a mormon president. >> we're not electing a pastor of the nation. we're electing a leader and who can best lead. >> returning, the only guest who ever bothers to pray for me. >> i say he's the nicest guy. >> joel and victoria osteen. and wyclef jean on romney's 47% comment. >> the government still plays a crucial part of what we do. >> this is "piers morgan tonight." good evening. our big story tonight, mitt romney's meltdown. the storm over the candidate's remarks recorded at a private fund-raising event in may shows no sign of blowing over. >> these are people who pay no income tax. 47% of americans pay no income tax so our message of low taxes doesn't connect. they'll be out there talking about tax cuts for the rich. that's what they celebrate every four years. so my job is not to worry about those people. i'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives. >> the white house has responded with full barrels. listen to what the president told david letterman tonight. >> one of the things i've learned as president is you represent the entire country. >> just how bad is all this for mitt romney? is it really good for the president? joining me is senate majority whip, dick durbin. thank you for joining me. are you guys rubbing your hands with glee? do you think it's a game-changing moment in this election battle? >> it's certainly an insight into the mind of mitt romney. this was a moment when he was speaking to his closest friends and supporters and he really writes off almost half of america as people without personal responsibility, who view themselves as victims. it wasn't too much of a surprise, really. he was the one who said corporations are persons and the gaffes along the way really kind of lean to a lifestyle that most middle income americans just would never appreciate or certainly wouldn't understand. so i think it's further insight into romney and his values. >> he is trying to sort of spin this as well, it's just an illustration albeit clumsily phrased of the message we are trying to ram home. listen to what he told fox news earlier. >> this is a message i'm carrying day in and day out and will carry over the coming months, which is this is a decision about the course of america, and where we're going to head, and we've seen the president's policies play out over the last four years. >> if that had been his only reaction, then perhaps he may have got a bit of escape route out of this but last night looked like he was panicking, he raced to the cameras, he looked a little bit beleaguered when he did that. clearly, judging by the way the polls are moving, and the general mood about mitt romney, he's in trouble now, isn't he? >> well, certainly he's talking himself into trouble. last night, remember what he said, that was inelegant, the way i expressed it. well, i would have said well, you had some time to think about it, add your fair share of elegance to your statement, and tell us what you really meant. i'm afraid what we're hearing from him is basically he thinks people, working families that send their kids off to college with a government loan are somehow victims, have a mindset that they're victims or those that are drawing medicare after paying into it for a lifetime don't have personal responsibility? i mean, that doesn't sound to me like a good understanding of what the struggle is in america for so many working families who are doing their best to take care of their kids and plan for their future. >> we also saw after the appalling events in libya a few days ago, a kind of spontaneous and perhaps very ill-advised spontaneous reaction from mitt romney by sort of common agreement that he jumped in very quickly to attack the president at a time when it may have been more prudent to have just backed off, waited for the facts and supported the president and the country through that period. what of that and his comments in the video about the palestinians where he kind of lays the blame at their feet completely, it seems, against israel? what do you think about his hand on the foreign policy tiller? >> well, he's certainly been bumbling when it comes to domestic policy and way beyond his element and comfort level when it comes to foreign policy. i mean, how can you visit england, our trusted ally, and say something that was so outrageous that it turns the british people against him and the comments he made about the olympics. it was just a ham-handed approach to something that should have been a very easy assignment for even a presidential candidate. >> i think the problem with that was, i was in england at the time and of course, everyone in england was saying exactly the same thing as mitt romney. it's just a bit like going to somebody's house and saying you don't like their curtains. it's not for him to say. for now, thank you very much. >> good to be with you. now we go to one of mitt romney's strongest advocates and outspoken voice in the republican party. donald trump joins me on the phone. how are you? >> hello, piers. >> your man's in a little trouble. he's dug himself a monumental hole. >> no, i don't think so at all. i think people like to say that. i don't think so at all. it's a debate that has to be had. i guess he brought it out into the open but i don't think so at all and i don't think he should be apologizing for anything. and they should just continue on with the polls, they're showing very close. it will be a tight race no matter how you look at it but it's a point of view and it's probably something that they have to have out at some point. >> are the media making too much of this, do you think? >> yes, absolutely. they make a big deal out of it and frankly, he's been saying similar things on the campaign stump. he's been going out and he's been discussing this. this is something that has to be discussed, and as you know, there are tremendous numbers of people, whether it's 47% or close to 50%, that don't pay taxes and don't pay income taxes, and probably lots of other taxes, so this is really a discussion and a debate and it has to go forward. and let's see how it ends up. >> one of the problems, it seems to me, if you actually analyze the 47% who supposedly don't pay tax in the way that he put it, many of them reside in states that are supportive to mitt romney, so it's a real shoot yourself in the foot moment, isn't it? >> i don't think so. i think it's really something and a point that is going to be discussed over the next 50 days, and there are two sides to it, and it's come out and a lot of people wanted it to come out, because they really feel that it's a very, very vital thing. it has to be discussed. >> you have always been somebody who calls a spade a spade, and i'm sure that you have been talking to mitt romney. he's clearly having a rocky time in this campaign. everyone can see that. what advice do you give him to get things back on track? do you want to see him go harder at barack obama? >> well, i have to think that it's been a pretty rough period because everything he says, they attack him and i think he's going to have to get very tough and frankly, he's got to fight fire with fire. they're blaming him for egypt, okay? this is a beauty. they blamed him the other day for egypt. now, egypt's blowing up with a horrible foreign policy that we had, and they actually put the blame on mitt romney. i said what did he have to do with egypt? it really is, it's a nasty campaign and honestly, mitt is going to have to be both very smart, which he is, and very nasty, which frankly, he's not. and he's got to get that way because they are coming at him with all barrels loaded and he's going to have to get that way and very quickly, in my opinion. when i see what happened with, as an example, the memo or the statement he made having to do with libya, and having to do with other things, having to do with egypt, and he's getting blamed for all this, it's incredible. he has nothing to do with it. >> part of his problem, donald, it seems, is he seems to have this inability to talk in a way that people find relatable to the common man and woman in america. i don't know if it's appropriate for you to get into this because you are a very rich guy, much richer than mitt romney but you always had the ability to communicate with the poorer man on the streets. i have been around you and they all seem to relate to you. how can he work on that? how can he improve the way he relates to people? >> you know, as you know better than anyone, i just want to congratulate you because i'm just hearing great things about your show and how well you're doing and i'm very proud of you, because of your success on the "apprentice." every time i watch i'm proud of you. but i have to say that you are born a certain way. he's a gentleman, he's a very smart guy. i think he can be a very tough guy and i think he's somebody that will make a great president. that doesn't mean he's going to be a great campaigner, but he will be a great president. there are very, very different abilities and i really think ultimately, people will see through all of this, but he's being blamed for things that he has nothing to do with, and he frankly, you know, the statement that he made, the recent statement that's causing all this fuss, it's being built up, built up by the media, built up by the obama folks, and i don't blame them for doing it. i blame the media but i don't blame the obama folks if they can get away with it for doing exactly what they're doing. but i really think that mitt can handle pressure well. that was proven to me during the debates, if you remember, in florida. he went into florida having to win the debates, having to win florida. he was in trouble. he won both debates easily and he did a fantastic job. i actually told him it was the best political week of his life. he did a fantastic job. he won florida and then he took it from there. he's very good under pressure. i think that the debates and especially the first debate will be vital to both sides. you know, don't forget, you're talking about mitt. the fact is most of the polls have him just about even right now and in some cases, they have mitt up and in some cases, they have the president up, but it's a very, very close race. and i have a feeling he's going to react very well under pressure, as he did in florida, piers. >> have you spoken to him since this whole secret video story blew up? >> i have. >> how was he? >> i think he's fine. it's a debate that is going to be had and it's a debate that should be had, and people are going to be talking about it and i think that's a good thing, not a bad thing. >> do you still believe fundamentally that mitt romney can win this election, donald? >> well, absolutely. look at the polls. they're showing even. he's up in north carolina. he's about even or maybe even winning in florida. he's slightly down in ohio. absolutely i think he can, and i think the other side believes he can and frankly, a lot's going to happen over the next 50 days. don't forget, he sved his money and they're going to do a massive campaign, whereas president obama has spent much of his money already, but they have been very i think wisely, now, time will tell, i'll tell you in about 51 days, but they have been i think very wisely save their money and now you're going to have a blitz. let's see how that works. let's see how it comes out but they have a tremendous amount of money which they haven't spent, the other side has spent a lot of its money. >> do you think that it's fair that super pacs can spend tens of millions of dollars and therefore, the one with the most money can, if they're smart, effectively buy an election? >> well, number one, i don't think you can buy the election. but it doesn't matter what i think. the supreme court said it was fine. so you have people on the supreme court, they voted in favor of that, s you know, it's irrelevant what i think. but the court certainly said it was fine. >> from your conversation with mitt romney, he's a bit battered but not beaten? >> oh, no. just the opposite. i think he's really ready now to start going, and i think you're going to see somebody, remember what i said. some people, and i have known many, many people. you happen to be one of them. you reacted very well under pressure and i got to know you very much under pressure. some people react very well under pressure. most people don't. mitt romney reacd very, very well under pressure and that was during, in particular, florida, he had to win that state. otherwise it was over. not only did he win the debates and newt is very tough and very good as a debater, and he won the debates and he won florida. that was under great stress, under great pressure. so let's see how he does. i think you'll be very surprised. >> donald trump, thank you for joining me. >> thank you very much, piers. >> donald trump not the only one fired up about this. when we come back, political all-stars go toe-to-toe. i predict this will get lively. 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[ male announcer ] yes, it is, business pro. yes, it is. go national. go like a pro. i don't know what he was referring to, but i can tell you this. when i won in 2008, 47% of the american people voted for john mccain. they didn't vote for me. and what i said on election night was even though you didn't vote for me, i hear your voices and i'm going to work as hard as i can to be your president, and one of the things i've learned as president is you represent the entire country. >> president obama talking to david letterman tonight, two very articulate people on opposite sides of this debate. "new york times" columnist david groh. on the face of it, this is a monumental gaffe by mitt romney because whichever way you try to spin it, it's basically calling half of america a bunch of scrounging victims. >> romney must have honey on his toes because he can't keep his foot out of his mouth. there is no way for mitt romney to walk back what he has said. he has basically said, there are a couple words that stand out. victim, right? when you talk about casual observe observers, these are not people who read the "new york times" and "washington post" every day. they will glance by news and see snippets on television. these things stand out, calling 47% of americans victims who are dependent on government. also saying, and this is think is a pivotal part of that clip, is it is not my job to worry about these people. >> michael gerson, it's very, very hard to defend this, isn't it? if you're in the romney camp, it comes off the back of another couple major gaffes by common consensus major gaffes, including the libyan, way he behaved over that attack. when you are in that camp now, what do you do? how do you get him out of this hole? >> well, there are only a couple of responses in a case like this, because it's hard to disagree with that analysis of this quote. you say what i really meant to say was and that's what he's done. i really meant to say government's too large and will bankrupt the country and try to get it back to a more sustainable ideological argument until the press moves on to the next thing, or you can say i was wrong, at least in part, which maybe is what he should say here. the government is too large but the reality here is that most people want to improve their own lives and i'm going to appeal to everyone and i made a mistake. i don't think politicians do that enough. >> there's a new "wall street journal" poll tonight and nbc news combined with them gives the president his highest job approval rating since march at 50%. it also shows mr. romney among likely voters, 50% to 45% so 5% clear lead with just two weeks before the campaign hits a major landmark with the first debate. if you're mitt romney, you are in big trouble now. there's no way of saying you're not. you're in big trouble. what is he going to do? >> what does he have to do? >> i know you don't want him to do it. what does he have to do politically? >> well, i kind of agree with the idea that you do have to say go closer to an apology if not outright apologize. but even if you do that, there's a problem with that because the whole statement rests on the idea that obama has a base that is near half of the electorate so if he starts to back away and say i didn't mean the whole 47%, i meant like 20%, i meant 30%, then the whole argument falls apart so then you did mean to say exactly what you said. you were basically saying that there is a part of the electorate that is almost at a winning percentage that will vote for this president regardless because they feel they are victims and they are parasitic and that is a problem, i don't know how you fix this. every time i see him on television, the first press conference and interviews on fox news, neither one of those things -- it's almost better to just say nothing if he was going to do what he did. >> isn't the real problem for mitt romney is this lends succor to the argument that he is two-faced when it comes to principles and his political views? >> i think the wor kind of gaffes are the ones that confirm a stereotype. that was true of obama, with the they cling to guns and religion, he was seen as an elitist. i think it was true of george w. bush when the old dui came out where he seemed irresponsible. sometimes these aren't always fatal but they contribute to an image and it's a bad one. i think the best way for romney to combat that going forward is to actually have some policy to say about the mobility and advancement for the aspiring poor, to prove that you actually care about everyone by proposing policies that appeal to unexpected groups. the campaign hasn't done very much of that. they said they were going to make a pivot to be more policy oriented. i think that's one way to help get beyond that is to prove you care about the whole country by proposing some policy that appeals to the whole country. >> charles blow, the problem it seems to me, he believed the economy was his strong point and what barack obama has quite skillfully done i think with his team is attack him on his strong point, trying to portray bain as a murderous rampaging capitalist beast chucking people on the sword and now you have this situation. i will play a new obama ad which basically sums up how he will attack him. it's very, very damaging. watch this. >> so my job is not to worry about those people. i will never convince them. >> wow. >> i actually felt sick to my stomach. >> i don't like it. >> it shows that he's out of touch, that if he thinks half of the country is feeling like victims. >> victims, i wouldn't say so. i don't think that's part of the american fabric. >> we touched a little earlier on the victim thing. also, he had these other remarks out the palestinians and how they were basically going to be a block to any kind of peace over there. he's touched on the foreign policy aspect as we have seen with the libya gaffe and now this, it's pretty unsteady as it is and now in his own backyard of the economy, he suddenly looks vulnerable. >> well, the latest rounds of polls have basically said -- shown that obama is eating away at his edge on the economy which is bad news for him. i don't think it's necessarily right to cast it as the obama campaign making bain out to be villainous. there were parts of what bain did that were not helpful to people who were actually everyday workers. this is a fact. >> there's also a fact that many of the things bain did were successful turn-around of companies. >> right. it depends on what you call success. if it is making money for the investors of bain, yes, incredibly successful. if as mitt has basically made his campaign out to be, i am a job creator, i know how to create jobs, well, that is a very much more mixed picture and the obama campaign is pointing that out. they are not making those facts up. that is a very real thing. the other part of the economic issue is that mitt romney has taken advantage of a lot of tax loopholes that we know of and he won't release the other information we don't, about back taxes. he won't release those so we don't even know if mitt romney might be one of the people who didn't pay taxes that he's now slamming as part of the 47%. that's the problem for mitt romney. mitt romney made this problem. the obama campaign is basically just taking advantage of it. >> michael gerson, final word for you. obviously they are going to be in the bunker tonight thinking oh, my god, how do we get out of this, but there are ways to get out of it and we don't know quite what their strategy will be. do you think as things stand, that mitt romney can still win this election? >> oh, i think so. i think the president consistently at 50% or below in approval rating is a danger sign. presidents generally need to be in the very high 40s or low 50s in order to be re-elected. george bush was an exception in 2004, he was at 48% at his re-election. it's still a very tight race. you have 50 days. the problem is, this is a time when they need traction, when in fact they have a distraction. so i think this is wasting time. it's not only adding to a destructive stereotype, it's actually allowing them or not allowing them to gain some traction at a time that's really essential. >> michael gerson, charles blow, thank you both very much. coming up, politics and prayer. how does faith factor into the race for president? i'll ask two of america's best-known pastors, joel and victoria osteen. i'm so glad you called. thank you. we're not in london, are we? no. why? apparently my debit card is. what? i know. don't worry, we have cancelled your old card. great. thank you. in addition to us monitoring your accounts for unusual activity, you could also set up free account alerts. okay. [ female announcer ] at wells fargo we're working around the clock to help protect your money and financial information. here's your temporary card. welcome back. how was london? [ female announcer ] wells fargo. together we'll go far. but i'm still stubbed up. [ male announcer ] truth is, nyquil doesn't unstuff your nose. what? [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus liquid gels speeds relief to your worst cold symptoms plus has a decongestant for your stuffy nose. thanks. that's the cold truth! and the candidate's speech is in pieces all over the district. the writer's desktop and the coordinator's phone are working on a joke with local color. the secure cloud just received a revised intro from the strategist's tablet. and while i make my way into the venue, the candidate will be rehearsing off of his phone. [ candidate ] and thanks to every young face i see out there. [ woman ] his phone is one of his biggest supporters. 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[ female announcer ] with cisco at the center... ♪ chirping beeping camera ahhhh drill sound chirping electric shaver shaking remote tapping sound shaking drill chirping tapping shaking remote wouldn't it be great to have one less battery to worry about? car honking irping the 2012 sonata hybrid. the only hybrid with a lifetime hybrid battery warranty. from hyundai. i declare every person under the sound of my voice is blessed. >> joel osteen in miami in 2010. here's his wife victoria speaking the language of millions of americans when it comes to matters of faith but how about politics? they are pastors of lakewood church in houston and the new book is "i declare, 31 promises to speak over your life." joining me exclusively, joel and victoria osteen. welcome back. i feel like we're old friends now. >> i know. good to see you again. >> the worse i treat you, the more you come back for more. i like that. >> everybody thinks you're mean. i say he's the nicest guy. >> don't ruin my reputation. i know what you'll say to my first question. you'll say look, i never get involved in politics, it's your pat answer. but given the evangelical vote is so important to both barack obama and mitt romney, what do you say to your flock when they come and see you and say look, joel, i can't work out who to vote for, what do you say to them? >> well, piers, i just go back to a central theme of encouraging everybody to vote, to search their own heart, because it's interesting, good people of faith can read the scripture and interpret it differently. i have democrats and republicans in our church that love the lord, you know, that couldn't be any better people but they just, you know, different issues speak to them. >> the president, though, is a conventional christian. mitt romney is a mormon. and there are fundamental differences. the holy trinity definition in both is very, very different. the mormons believe there are the father, son and holy spirit. obviously the christian faith believes they're all the same thing. how do you deal with that? surely your natural leaning would be towards the guy that believes the same that you do. >> i think you're right in that instance. i think also, though, you look at the whole totality of the person and not just their faith, although their faith is important because it tells me their values and their characters, but i think as practical americans and as practical followers of christ, you look at their business experience and other areas as well. i like that saying that we're not just -- we're not electing a pastor of the nation, we're electing a leader and who can best lead. >> victoria, who do you prefer more? who is more charismatic to you? >> i think they're both amazing men. that's just going to have -- to people who are undecided, i would say to them watch the debates, learn as much as you can, and then vote. and i would definitely say vote, because everyone needs to vote. that's what makes this country a great country. i will definitely be voting. >> are you undecided? >> am i undecided? no. >> you have decided? >> well, i'm going to really enjoy watching the debates because i think -- >> what a couple of politicians. come on, joel. it's obvious he's a republican. what are you? >> i give you the same speech. we're trying to reach the whole group. to come on here and say we're democrat or republican, 50% of the people will say -- >> let me pin you down about leadership, because you alluded to business leadership. mitt romney clearly has a standout record of being a very successful businessman. but with that came allegations he was too ruthless, too hard, that bain capital in particular broke up companies, they tossed people on the woodpile, if you like. what do you think of his record as a businessman? are you concerned about that? >> well, you know what, i just see the ads and what i read, i think a lot of what we see on both candidates, not just him, are tainted, are inflated. i think when i look at president obama and mitt romney, they are hard working, good people that, you know, i don't fault mitt romney for his success. >> do you think it's wrong in modern day america that someone like mitt romney who has made hundreds of millions of dollars and probably not quite as much as you have, joel, but he's done okay for himself, that he gets lambasted for his success, for making that money, that somehow it's become a bad thing to be rich and successful in america? >> i do. i don't think we should look down on people that are successful. i don't think that's healthy. you know, i see somebody like mitt romney helping others and things so i, you know, the goal is not going to happen but it's for everybody to be successful and everybody to be blessed and healthy, not just with money but i don't think we ought to look down on somebody that's been successful. i want somebody successful running the country. president obama went to harvard and doing pretty well. you see mitt romney as well. >> i have interviewed him a few times now. he seems a perfectly nice, kind, well-intentioned guy. i think on the principle front, a little bit flip-floppy. you're not quite sure what he really stands for. but the real problem comes with what he says when he doesn't think the cameras are on him. we saw this yesterday with this video that came out, when he was pretty harsh. 47% of americans, half the country, are victims, living off the state, not paying tax, and completely disingenuous. most of those people do pay payroll tax or they are the elderly or veterans. it was a very clumsy thing to have done. you must feel offended when you hear him say something like that, don't you? >> here i go again, but i'm for mercy, i'm for seeing the best in people. >> being merciful towards mitt romney? >> in a presidential election, every sentence is scrutinized. they were knocking president obama the other day for the "you didn't build it" or whatever it is. that's not the heart of what they meant. you know, i probably have way too much mercy than some people but i just, i look at him and say it's admirable that they're trying to win this election and do good for our country because that's not an easy job. that's getting raked over the coals every day. >> we'll be right back. those little things still get you. for you, life's about her. but your erectile dysfunction - that could be a question of blood flow. cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently or urgently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medications, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sexual activity. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess with cialis. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or if you have any allergic reactions such as rash, hives, swelling of the lips, tongue or throat, or difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a 30-tablet free trial. heavenly father, we thank you for this time with mr. president. lord, we just ask for your peace, for this nation, for your strength, for your wisdom, for the leaders. >> joel osteen with israeli president shimon peres. certainly as i went back to london all i could see was your grinning mug everywhere with copies of your book everywhere. how many have you done? >> this is my fourth major book. >> how many tens of millions of copies have you sold? >> i don't know. i sold a lot, though. >> you're not denying tens of millions, i noticed. >> i don't know about that. >> the first sold ten million. >> it did. it did. but you know, i write the books to hopefully help people and people get inspired behind them. there's a lot of things pushing people down so our ministry is about lifting people up, saying hey, don't get tter, don't get discouraged, you know, stay in faith, stay positive. people are drawn to that because there is a lot of negativity. >> you do have this effect on me. every time i interview you, i go away and i feel happier. i feel better about myself although i feel deeply resentful you're selling more books than i did. what i wonder, when you do a book called "i declare" which is a smart premise, sort of a statement for every day of the month, and it's very positive driven, very get up and be glass half full, not glass half empty, but people will say it's a lot easier for you, mate, you're selling tens of millions of books, you're making hundreds of millions of dollars, you are married to this beautiful woman. life's pretty damn good for joel osteen. what about if i've lost my job, my house, my car, i can't feed my kids, as tens of millions of americans right now are going through that. what do you say about that? how do you convince them to take your lead? >> well, i think the big part of the ministry is that you know, we faced difficulties, too, but our hearts go out to people. americans are uhurting, people all over the world. the important thing is if you get up in the morning, saying life is lousy, there's nothing good in my future, i don't want to go to work, i don't feel well, you will negativeity. it's hard, i'm not saying it's easy, especially when things are coming against you. you got to find something to be grateful for. >> when i saw the video there, it was pretty controversial because this is a very sensitive thing out there, isn't it, mitt romney himself got into more trouble when more of that video came out. it was basically him saying he doesn'think there can be peace and pretty well blaming the palestinians. you obviously interviewed peres. did you get flack from the palestinians? did you worry about dipping your toe into a very hot political situation? >> you know, i didn't, because piers, the foundation of our faith is based out of israel and the scripture tells us to pray for peace in jerusalem. i went over certainly not as a political leader but as a friend to the people. we don't shun somebody, the palestinian people or anybody else, but just happened to be there holding an event there so i felt very honored to pray with him. >> we got a picture of joel on a beach which we thought we would show victoria. there we are. pretty damn impressive. is he into this p-90x thing? >> let's see. >> the paul ryan -- >> it's just all natural. >> really? >> he works out. >> i work out. >> every day? >> no, i don't work out every day. i like to work out. i grew up playing sports. i like to run, lift weights, play sports. it's natural to me. >> not bad. another reason to hate you. >> well. >> if you weren't such a nice bloke, it would be easy to hate you. >> thank you. >> when people go to vote now in november, what is the key message? if you had barack obama and mitt romney here, you wanted them to declare things, what do you want them to declare truthfully to the electorate to make a decision about them? >> well, i don't know if i can give them advice. the book is about declaring, declare god's faithfulness in my life, declare god's wisdom in my life, declare that i have favor from god to make the right decision. >> those are great things for them to declare. >> sure. but when you see them taking out ads, for example, which are deliberately negative, often flagrantly untrue, just really unpleasant, nasty attack ads, do you think that should stop in this country? you think it's just poison? >> i would love for it to but it seems as long as i can remember, it's always happened and from what i hear, the negative seems to work. it's a shame -- >> would you like it to stop? >> i would love it to stop. i would love it to stay on a higher level. i don't know if that's practical but i think it would be great if it would. i think things are taken out of context and you know, amplified and it's not necessarily like you said the full truth. >> it's been a pleasure to see you both again. unfortunately, i have to declare this interview over. i'm sure we will meet again very soon with the next book or whatever it may be. "31 promises to speak over your life." i will read this tonight, i know i will feel better tomorrow so tomorrow night's interviews will be a lot happier all around than today's have been. lovely to see you. coming up, a pop star who has a lot to say about politics. wyclef jean had his own presidential ambitions. i will ask him what he thinks about the race between mitt romney and president obama. 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president obama: i'm barack obamthis message.ve... anncr: he keeps saying it... mitt romney: this president cannot tell us that you're... better off today than when he took office. anncr: well... here's where we were in 2008... tv anncr: the worst financial collapse... since the great depression... tv anncr: american workers were laid off in numbers not seen... in over three decades. anncr: and here's where we are today... thirty months of private sector job growth. creating 4.6 million new jobs. we're not there yet. but the real question is: whose plan is better for you? the president's plan asks millionaires... to pay a little more... to help invest in a strong middle class. clean energy. and cut the deficit. mitt romney's plan? a new 250,000 dollar tax break for... multi-millionaires. roll back regulations on the banks that cratered the economy. and raise taxes on the middle class. president clinton: they want to go back to the same old... policies that got us in trouble in the first place. president obama: we're not going back, we are moving forward. anncr: forward. why does my mouth feel dryer than i remember it to be? there are more people taking more medication, so we see people suffering from dry mouth more so. we may see more cavities, bad breath, oral irritation. a dry mouth sufferer doesn't have to suffer. i would recommend biotene. the enzymes in biotene products help supplement enzymes that are naturally in saliva. biotene helps moisten those areas that have become dry. those that are suffering can certainly benefit from biotene. plenty of hip-hop stars are opinionated when it comes to politics but not very many have attempt tod run for office themselves like wyclef jean. he rose from poverty and became a huge star with the fugees while developing a passion for politics. his new book details his struggles and successes and he joins me now for his first prime time interview. welcome. good to see you. see you. >> good to see you too. >> here is the deal. you can either be involved in music or politics for the rest of your life, you can't do both, what would you choose? >> i would choose if i was in my 20s, i would say music. being in my 40s, i would definitely say politics. >> why are you so enthused by it? >> politics came from my uncle, ray joseph, the haiti ambassador to america, so politics has always been an undertone in the household. >> you're a surprising character. you voted for obama and down to perform the rnc convention this year, and you pulled out. what's that all about? >> the first thing is is i did not agree to perform at the rnc. willie nelson pulled out. you know what i'm saying? willie, you're my man, but that's who pulled out. what came across, the e-mail of my management, was something that said, a performance for veterans, and disabled, which i perform for vets. i had people that was in the military. once the e-mail went down, and it was like, rnc, i was like, you all know i can't do that. now, i'm not doing it because i have -- tend of the day, i have friends that are republican. you know, they are just going to vote for obama this time around. you know what i mean? >> yeah yeah. a lot of republican friends feel obama is the way to go. >> have you ever been republican, or always resolutely a democrat? >> coming from haiti, landing in the projects in brooklyn, going from welfare to public school, me and my brother, he goes to eastern that nazarean college, e goes to boston university. automatically, all my life, i would naturally be dem rat. >> jean. that's the french jean. >> it's actually jean, but what happened is my dad actually named me after the englishmen, so partially right and wrong. so he named me after wycleaf jean. >> but you are actually wycleiw jean. >> in texas, though, wycleaf jean. >> how do you think obama is doing? he has 49 days left to save the world and get re-elected. >> if i'm being critical, where we're at right now with the first term, he didn't get a bipartisan front, and what i mean by that, a lot of things he was trying to go for, congress was not allowing him to go through. and i think when it comes to his re-election, i think he's doing great, and i think -- i don't really think. i believe that he will be the next president. >> when you hear mitt romney as you did yesterday in the secret tape emerged, talking about being half of america being victims, living off the state, not paying taxes, a very smeary condemning kind of rhetoric he used, how did you feel about that? >> i felt offended. offended in the sense i told you my story, coming from a background where we was in poverty and got a chance to make it in the american dream. i think that's the story. at the same time, i want to be clear, i have super, super rich friends that were always rich. but at the same time, they don't look down at us as if we're nothing, and the idea is people are people, and i think the government still plays a crucial part of what we do. >> what does it come down to you, this election? what do you think those still trying to make their minds up should really focus on? >> if you follow wycleaf jean on twitter, which i have over 1 million, probably more than that. i think we need a president who has a cool head, not a president that reacts off emotion or anger. if you look at what's going on outside of america, with the rest of the world, you have to have somebody that comes in and understand that. the second part of it is, of course, i think the economy is crucial. we have to put people back to work. and i think with obama's second term, i think that he'll realize that. >> well, it's been a real pleasure. the book is a fascinating read "purpose." come back and see us again. >> thank you, sir. >> a man who gives new meaning to going for gold. you know why i sell tools? 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welcome back. two of america's favorites get down and dirty and political. >> i'm not going to tell you who i'm going to vote for, but -- >> the middle east. >> the foundation of our faith is based out of israel. >> and if this country is ready for a mormon president. >> we're not electing a pastor of the nation. we're electing a leader and who can best lead. >> returning, the only guest who ever bothers to pray for me. >> i say he's the nicest guy. >> joel and victoria osteen. and wyclef jean on romney's 47% comment. >> the government still plays a crucial part of what we do. >> this is "piers morgan tonight." good evening. our big story tonight, mitt romney's meltdown. the storm over the candidate's remarks recorded at a private fund-raising event in may shows no sign of blowing over. >> these are people who pay no income tax. 47% of americans pay no income tax so our message of low taxes doesn't connect. they'll be out there talking about tax cuts for the rich. that's what they celebrate every four years. so my job is not to worry about those people. i'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives. >> the white house has responded with full barrels. listen to what the president told david letterman tonight. >> one of the things i've learned as president is you represent the entire country. >> just how bad is all this for mitt romney? is it really good for the president? joining me is senate majority whip, dick durbin. thank you for joining me. are you guys rubbing your hands with glee? do you think it's a game-changing moment in this election battle? >> it's certainly an insight into the mind of mitt romney. this was a moment when he was speaking to his closest friends and supporters and he really writes off almost half of america as people without personal responsibility, who view themselves as victims. it wasn't too much of a surprise, really. he was the one who said corporations are persons and the gaffes along the way really kind of lean to a lifestyle that most middle income americans just would never appreciate or certainly wouldn't understand. so i think it's further insight into romney and his values. >> he is trying to sort of spin this as well, it's just an illustration albeit clumsily phrased of the message we are trying to ram home. listen to what he told fox news earlier. >> this is a message i'm carrying day in and day out and will carry over the coming months, which is this is a decision about the course of america, and where we're going to head, and we've seen the president's policies play out over the last four years. >> if that had been his only reaction, then perhaps he may have got a bit of escape route out of this but last night looked like he was panicking, he raced to the cameras, he looked a little bit beleaguered when he did that. clearly, judging by the way the polls are moving, and the general mood about mitt romney, he's in trouble now, isn't he? >> well, certainly he's talking himself into trouble. last night, remember what he said, that was inelegant, the way i expressed it. well, i would have said well, you had some time to think about it, add your fair share of elegance to your statement, and tell us what you really meant. i'm afraid what we're hearing from him is basically he thinks people, working families that send their kids off to college with a government loan are somehow victims, have a mindset that they're victims or those that are drawing medicare after paying into it for a lifetime don't have personal responsibility? i mean, that doesn't sound to me like a good understanding of what the struggle is in america for so many working families who are doing their best to take care of their kids and plan for their future. >> we also saw after the appalling events in libya a few days ago, a kind of spontaneous and perhaps very ill-advised spontaneous reaction from mitt romney by sort of common agreement that he jumped in very quickly to attack the president at a time when it may have been more prudent to have just backed off, waited for the facts and supported the president and the country through that period. what of that and his comments in the video about the palestinians where he kind of lays the blame at their feet completely, it seems, against israel? what do you think about his hand on the foreign policy tiller? >> well, he's certainly been bumbling when it comes to domestic policy and way beyond his element and comfort level when it comes to foreign policy. i mean, how can you visit england, our trusted ally, and say something that was so outrageous that it turns the british people against him and the comments he made about the olympics. it was just a ham-handed approach to something that should have been a very easy assignment for even a presidential candidate. >> i think the problem with that was, i was in england at the time and of course, everyone in england was saying exactly the same thing as mitt romney. it's just a bit like going to somebody's house and saying you don't like their curtains. it's not for him to say. for now, thank you very much. >> good to be with you. now we go to one of mitt romney's strongest advocates and outspoken voice in the republican party. donald trump joins me on the phone. how are you? >> hello, piers. >> your man's in a little trouble. he's dug himself a monumental hole. >> no, i don't think so at all. i think people like to say that. i don't think so at all. it's a debate that has to be had. i guess he brought it out into the open but i don't think so at all and i don't think he should be apologizing for anything. and they should just continue on with the polls, they're showing very close. it will be a tight race no matter how you look at it but it's a point of view and it's probably something that they have to have out at some point. >> are the media making too much of this, do you think? >> yes, absolutely. they make a big deal out of it and frankly, he's been saying similar things on the campaign stump. he's been going out and he's been discussing this. this is something that has to be discussed, and as u know, there are tremendous numbers of people, whether it's 47% or close to 50%, that don't pay taxes and don't pay income taxes, and probably lots of other taxes, so this is really a discussion and a debate and it has to go forward. and let's see how it ends up. >> one of the problems, it seems to me, if you actually analyze the 47% who supposedly don't pay tax in the way that he put it, many of them reside in states that are supportive to mitt romney, so it's a real shoot yourself in the foot moment, isn't it? >> i don't think so. i think it's really something and a point that is going to be discussed over the next 50 days, and there are two sides to it, and it's come out and a lot of people wanted it to come out, because they really feel that it's a very, very vital thing. it has to be discussed. >> you have always been somebody who calls a spade a spade, and i'm sure that you have been talking to mitt romney. he's clearly having a rocky time in this campaign. everyone can see that. what advice do you give him to get things back on track? do you want to see him go harder at barack obama? >> well, i have to think that it's been a pretty rough period because everything he says, they attack him and i think he's going to have to get very tough and frankly, he's got to fight fire with fire. they're blaming him for egypt, okay? this is a beauty. they blamed him the other day for egypt. now, egypt's blowing up with a horrible foreign policy that we had, and they actually put the blame on mitt romney. i said what did he have to do with egypt? it really is, it's a nasty campaign and honestly, mitt is going to have to be both very smart, which he is, and very nasty, which frankly, he's not. and he's got to get that way because they are coming at him with all barrels loaded and he's going to have to get that way and very quickly, in my opinion. when i see what happened with, as an example, the memo or the statement he made having to do with libya, and having to do with other things, having to do with egypt, and he's getting blamed for all this, it's incredible. he has nothing to do with it. >> part of his problem, donald, it seems, is he seems to have this inability to talk in a way that people find relatable to the common man and woman in america. i don't know if it's appropriate for you to get into this because you are a very rich guy, much richer than mitt romney but you always had the ability to communicate with the poorer man on the streets. i have been around you and they all seem to relate to you. how can he work on that? how can he improve the way he relates to people? >> you know, as you know better than anyone, i just want to congratulate you because i'm just hearing great things about your show and how well you're doing and i'm very proud of you, because of your success on the "apprentice." every time i watch i'm proud of you. but i have to say that you are born a certain way. he's a gentleman, he's a very smart guy. i think he can be a very tough guy and i think he's somebody that will make a great president. that doesn't mean he's going to be a great campaigner, but he will be a great president. there are very, very different abilities and i really think ultimately, people will see through all of this, but he's being blamed for things that he has nothing to do with, and he frankly, you know, the statement that he made, the recent statement that's causing all this fuss, it's being built up, built up by the media, built up by the obama folks, and i don't blame themor doing it. i blame the media but i don't blame the obama folks if they can get away with it for doing exactly what they're doing. but i really think that mitt can handle pressure well. that was proven to me during the debates, if you remember, in florida. he went into florida having to win the debates, having to win florida. he was in trouble. he won both debates easily and he did a fantastic job. i actually told him it was the best political week of his life. he did a fantastic job. he won florida and then he took it from there. he's very good under pressure. i think that the debates and especially the first debate will be vital to both sides. you know, don't forget, you're talking about mitt. the fact is most of the polls have him just about even right now and in some cases, they have mitt up and in some cases, they have the president up, but it's a very, very close race. and i have a feeling he's going to react very well under pressure, as he did in florida, piers. >> have you spoken to him since this whole secret video story blew up? >> i have. >> how was he? >> i think he's fine. it's a debate that is going to be had and it's a debate that should be had, and people are going to be talking about it and i think that's a good thing, not a bad thing. >> do you still believe fundamentally that mitt romney can win this election, donald? >> well, absolutely. look at the polls. they're showing even. he's up in north carolina. he's about even or maybe even winning in florida. he's slightly down in ohio. absolutely i think he can, and i think the other side believes he can and frankly, a lot's going to happen over the next 50 days. don't forget, he saved his money and they're going to do a massive campaign, whereas president obama has spent much of his money already, but they have been very i think wisely, now, time will tell, i'll tell you in about 51 days, but they have been i think very wisely save their money and now you're going to have a blitz. let's see how that works. let's see how it comes out but they have a tremendous amount of money which they haven't spent, the other side has spent a lot of its money. >> do you think that it's fair that super pacs can spend tens of millions of dollars and therefore, the one with the most money can, if they're smart, effectively buy an election? >> well, number one, i don't think you can buy the election. but it doesn't matter what i think. the supreme court said it was fine. so you have people on the supreme court, they voted in favor of that, so you know, it's irrelevant what i think. but the court certainly said it was fine. >> from your conversation with mitt romney, he's a bit battered but not beaten? >> oh, no. just the opposite. i think he's really ready now to start going, and i think you're going to see somebody, remember what i said. some people, and i have known many, many people. you happen to be one of them. you reacted very well under pressure and i got to know you very much under pressure. some people react very well under pressure. most people don't. mitt romney reacted very, very well under pressure and that was during, in particular, florida, he had to win that state. otherwise it was over. not only did he win the debates and newt is very tough and very good as a debater, and he won the debates and he won florida. that was under great stress, under great pressure. so let's see how he does. i think you'll be very surprised. >> donald trump, thank you for joining me. >> thank you very much, piers. >> donald trump not the only one fired up about this. when we come back, political all-stars go toe-to-toe. i predict this will get lively. 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[ male announcer ] it made a big splash with the employees. [ duck yelling ] [ male announcer ] find out more at... [ duck ] aflac! [ male announcer ] ...forbusiness.com. ♪ ha ha! i don't know what he was referring to, but i can tell you this. when i won in 2008, 47% of the american people voted for john mccain. they didn't vote for me. and what i said on election night was even though you didn't vote for me, i hear your voices and i'm going to work as hard as i can to be your president, and one of the things i've learned as president is you represent the entire country. >> president obama talking to david letterman tonight, two very articulate people on opposite sides of this debate. "new york times" columnist david groh. on the face of it, this is a monumental gaffe by mitt romney because whichever way you try to spin it, it's basically calling half of america a bunch of scrounging victims. >> romney must have honey on his toes because he can't keep his foot out of his mouth. there is no way for mitt romney to walk back what he has said. he has basically said, there are a couple words that stand out. victim, right? when you talk about casual observers, these are not people who read the "new york times" and "washington post" every day. they will glance by news and see snippets on television. these things stand out, calling 47% of americans victims who are dependent on government. also saying, and this is think is a pivotal part of that clip, is it is not my job to worry about these people. >> michael gerson, it's very, very hard to defend this, isn't it? if you're in the romney camp, it comes off the back of another couple major gaffes by common consensus major gaffes, including the libyan, way he behaved over that attack. when you are in that camp now, what do you do? how do you get him out of this hole? >> well, there are only a couple of responses in a case like this, because it's hard to disagree with that analysis of this quote. you say what i really meant to say was and that's what he's done. i really meant to say government's too large and will bankrupt the country and try to get it back to a more sustainable ideological argument until the press moves on to the next thing, or you can say i was wrong, at least in part, which maybe is what he should say here. the government is too large but the reality here is that most people want to improve their own lives and i'm going to appeal to everyone and i made a mistake. i don't think politicians do that enough. >> there's a new "wall street journal" poll tonight and nbc news combined with them gives the president his highest job approval rating since march at 50%. it also shows mr. romney among likely voters, 50% to 45% so 5% clear lead with just two weeks before the campaign hits a major landmark with the first debate. if you're mitt romney, you are in big trouble now. there's no way of saying you're not. you're in big trouble. what is he going to do? >> what does he have to do? >> i know you don't want him to do it. what does he have to do politically? >> well, i kind of agree with the idea that you do have to say go closer to an apology if not outright apologize. but even if you do that, there's a problem with that because the whole statement rests on the idea that obama has a base that is near half of the electorate so if he starts to back away and say i didn't mean the whole 47%, i meant like 20%, i meant 30%, then the whole argument falls apart so then you did mean to say exactly what you said. you were basically saying that there is a part of the electorate that is almost at a winning percentage that will vote for this president regardless because they feel they are victims and they are parasitic and that is a problem, i don't know how you fix this. every time i see him on television, the first press conference and interviews on fox news, neither one of those things -- it's almost better to just say nothing if he was going to do what he did. >> isn't the real problem for mitt romney is this lends succor to the argument that he is two-faced when it comes to principles and his political views? >> i think the worst kind of gaffes are the ones that confirm a stereotype. that was true of obama, with the they cling to guns and religion, he was seen as an elitist. i think it was true of george w. bush when the old dui came out where he seemed irresponsible. sometimes these aren't always fatal but they contribute to an image and it's a bad one. i think the best way for romney to combat that going forward is to actually have some policy to say about the mobility and advancement for the aspiring poor, to prove that you actually care about everyone by proposing policies that appeal to unexpected groups. the campaign hasn't done very much of that. they said they were going to make a pivot to be more policy oriented. i think that's one way to help get beyond that is to prove you care about the whole country by proposing some policy that appeals to the whole country. >> charles blow, the problem it seems to me, he believed the economy was his strong point and what barack obama has quite skillfully done i think with his team is attack him on his strong point, trying to portray bain as a murderous rampaging capitalist beast chucking people on the sword and now you have this situation. i will play a new obama ad which basically sums up how he will attack him. it's very, very damaging. watch this. >> so my job is not to worry about those people. i will never convince them. >> wow. >> i actually felt sick to my stomach. >> i don't like it. >> it shows that he's out of touch, that if he thinks half of the country is feeling like victims. >> victims, i wouldn't say so. i don't think that's part of the american fabric. >> we touched a little earlier on the victim thing. also, he had these other remarks about the palestinians and how they were basically going to be a block to any kind of peace over there. he's touched on the foreign policy aspect as we have seen with the libya gaffe and now this, it's pretty unsteady as it is and now in his own backyard of the economy, he suddenly looks vulnerable. >> well, the latest rounds of polls have basically said -- shown that obama is eating away at his edge on the economy which is bad news for him. i don't think it's necessarily right to cast it as the obama campaign making bain out to be villainous. there were parts of what bain did that were not helpful to people who were actually everyday workers. this is a fact. >> there's also a fact that many of the things bain did were successful turn-around of companies. >> right. it depends on what you call success. if it is making money for the investors of bain, yes, incredibly successful. if as mitt has basically made his campaign out to be, i am a job creator, i know how to create jobs, well, that is a very much more mixed picture and the obama campaign is pointing that out. they are not making those facts up. that is a very real thing. the other part of the economic issue is that mitt romney has taken advantage of a lot of tax loopholes that we know of and he won't release the other information we don't, about back taxes. he won't release those so we don't even know if mitt romney might be one of the people who didn't pay taxes that he's now slamming as part of the 47%. that's the problem for mitt romney. mitt romney made this problem. the obama campaign is basically just taking advantage of it. >> michael gerson, final word for you. obviously they are going to be in the bunker tonight thinking oh, my god, how do we get out of this, but there are ways to get out of it and we don't know quite what their strategy will be. do you think as things stand, that mitt romney can still win this election? >> oh, i think so. i think the president consistently at 50% or below in approval rating is a danger sign. presidents generally need to be in the very high 40s or low 50s in order to be re-elected. george bush was an exception in 2004, he was at 48% at his re-election. it's still a very tight race. you have 50 days. the problem is, this is a time when they need traction, when in fact they have a distraction. so i think this is wasting time. it's not only adding to a destructive stereotype, it's actually allowing them or not allowing them to gain some traction at a time that's really essential. >> michael gerson, charles blow, thank you both very much. coming up, politics and prayer. how does faith factor into the race for president? i'll ask two of america's best-known pastors, joel and victoria osteen. 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[ announcer ] we are insurance. ♪ we are farmers bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ i declare every person under the sound of my voice is blessed. >> joel osteen in miami in 2010. here's his wife victoria speaking the language of millions of americans when it comes to matters of faith but how about politics? they are pastors of lakewood church in houston and the new book is "i declare, 31 promises to speak over your life." joining me exclusively, joel and victoria osteen. welcome back. i feel like we're old friends now. >> i know. good to see you again. >> the worse i treat you, the more you come back for more. i like that. >> everybody thinks you're mean. i say he's the nicest guy. >> don't ruin my reputation. i know what you'll say to my first question. you'll say look, i never get involved in politics, it's your pat answer. but given the evangelical vote is so important to both barack obama and mitt romney, what do you say to your flock when they come and see you and say look, joel, i can't work out who to vote for, what do you say to them? >> well, piers, i just go back to a central theme of encouraging everybody to vote, to search their own heart, because it's interesting, good people of faith can read the scripture and interpret it differently. i have democrats and republicans in our church that love the lord, you know, that couldn't be any better people but they just, you know, different issues speak to them. >> the president, though, is a conventional christian. mitt romney is a mormon. and there are fundamental differences. the holy trinity definition in both is very, very different. the mormons believe there are the father, son and holy spirit. obviously the christian faith believes they're all the same thing. how do you deal with that? surely your natural leaning would be towards the guy that believes the same that you do. >> i think you're right in that instance. i think also, though, you look at the whole totality of the person and not just their faith, although their faith is important because it tells me their values and their characters, but i think as practical americans and as practical followers of christ, you look at their business experience and other areas as well. i like that saying that we're not just -- we're not electing a pastor of the nation, we're electing a leader and who can best lead. >> victoria, who do you prefer more? who is more charismatic to you? >> i think they're both amazing men. that's just going to have -- to people who are undecided, i would say to them watch the debates, learn as much as you can, and then vote. and i would definitely say vote, because everyone needs to vote. that's what makes this country a great country. i will definitely be voting. >> are you undecided? >> am i undecided? no. >> you have decided? >> well, i'm going to really enjoy watching the debates because i think -- >> what a couple of politicians. come on, joel. it's obvious he's a republican. what are you? >> i give you the same speech. we're trying to reach the whole group. to come on here and say we're democrat or republican, 50% of the people will say -- >> let me pin you down about leadership, because you alluded to business leadership. mitt romney clearly has a standout record of being a very successful businessman. but with that came allegations he was too ruthless, too hard, that bain capital in particular broke up companies, they tossed people on the woodpile, if you like. what do you think of his record as a businessman? are you concerned about that? >> well, you know what, i just see the ads and what i read, i think a lot of what we see on both candidates, not just him, are tainted, are inflated. i think when i look at president obama and mitt romney, they are hard working, good people that, you know, i don't fault mitt romney for his success. >> do you think it's wrong in modern day america that someone like mitt romney who has made hundreds of millions of dollars and probably not quite as much as you have, joel, but he's done okay for himself, that he gets lambasted for his success, for making that money, that somehow it's become a bad thing to be rich and successful in america? >> i do. i don't think we should look down on people that are successful. i don't think that's healthy. you know, i see somebody like mitt romney helping others and things so i, you know, the goal is not going to happen but it's for everybody to be successful and everybody to be blessed and healthy, not just with money but i don't think we ought to look down on somebody that's been successful. i want somebody successful running the country. president obama went to harvard d doing pretty well. you see mitt romney asell. >> i have interviewed him a few times now. he seems a perfectly nice, kind, well-intentioned guy. i think on the principle front, a little bit flip-floppy. you're not quite sure what he really stands for. but the real problem comes with what he says when he doesn't think the cameras are on him. we saw this yesterday with this video that came out, when he was pretty harsh. 47% of americans, half the country, are victims, living off the state, not paying tax, and completely disingenuous. most of those people do pay payroll tax or they are the elderly or veterans. it was a very clumsy thing to have done. you must feel offended when you hear him say something like that, don't you? >> here i go again, but i'm for mercy, i'm for seeing the best in people. >> being merciful towards mitt romney? >> in a presidential election, every sentence is scrutinized. they were knocking president obama the other day for the "you didn't build it" or whatever it is. that's not the heart of what they meant. you know, i probably have way too much mercy than some people but i just, i look at him and say it's admirable that they're trying to win this election and do good for our country because that's not an easy job. that's getting raked over the coals every day. >> we'll be right back. president obama: i'm barack obama and i approve... this message. anncr: he keeps saying it... mitt romney: this president cannot tell us that you're... better off today than when he took office. anncr: well... here's where we were in 2008... tv anncr: the worst financial collapse... since the great depression... tv anncr: american workers were laid off in numbers not seen... in over three decades. anncr: and here's where we are today... thirty months of private sector job growth. creating 4.6 million new jobs. we're not there yet. but the real question is: whose plan is better for you? the president's plan asks millionaires... to pay a little more... to help invest in a strong middle class. clean energy. and cut the deficit. mitt romney's plan? a new 250,000 dollar tax break for... multi-millionaires. roll back regulations on the banks that cratered the economy. and raise taxes on the middle class. president clinton: they want to go back to the same old... policies that got us in trouble in the first place. president obama: we're not going back, we are moving forward. anncr: forward. heavenly father, we thank you for this time with mr. president. lord, we just ask for your peace, for this nation, for your strength, for your wisdom, for the leaders. >> joel osteen with israeli president shimon peres. certainly as i went back to london all i could see was your grinning mug everywhere with copies of your book everywhere. how many have you done? >> this is my fourth major book. >> how many tens of millions of copies have you sold? >> i don't know. i sold a lot, though. >> you're not denying tens of millions, i noticed. >> i don't know about that. >> the first sold ten million. >> it did. it did. but you know, i write the books to hopefully help people and people get inspired behind them. there's a lot of things pushing people down so our ministry is about lifting people up, saying hey, don't get bitter, don't get discouraged, you know, stay in faith, stay positive. people are drawn to that because there is a lot of negativity. >> you do have this effect on me. every time i interview you, i go away and i feel happier. i feel better about myself although i feel deeply resentful you're selling more books than i did. what i wonder, when you do a book called "i declare" which is a smart premise, sort of a statement for every day of the month, and it's very positive driven, very get up and be glass half full, not glass half empty, but people will say it's a lot easier for you, mate, you're selling tens of millions of books, you're making hundreds of millions of dollars, you are married to this beautiful woman. life's pretty damn good for joel osteen. what about if i've lost my job, my house, my car, i can't feed my kids, as tens of millions of americans right now are going through that. what do you say about that? how do you convince them to take your lead? >> well, i think the big part of the ministry is that you know, we faced difficulties, too, but our hearts go out to people. americans are hurting, people all over the world. the important thing is if you get up in the morning, saying life is lousy, there's nothing good in my future, i don't want to go to work, i don't feel well, you will negativeity. it's hard, i'm not saying it's easy, especially when things are coming against you. you got to find something to be grateful for. >> when i saw the video there, it was pretty controversial because this is a very sensitive thing out there, isn't it, mitt romney himself got into more trouble when more of that video came out. it was basically him saying he doesn't think there can be peace and pretty well blaming the palestinians. you obviously interviewed peres. did you get flack from the palestinians? did you worry about dipping your toe into a very hot political situation? >> you know, i didn't, because piers, the foundation of our faith is based out of israel and the scripture tells us to pray for peace in jerusalem. i went over certainly not as a political leader but as a friend to the people. we don't shun somebody, the palestinian people or anybody else, but just happened to be there holding an event there so i felt very honored to pray with him. >> we got a picture of joel on a beach which we thought we would show victoria. there we are. pretty damn impressive. is he into this p-90x thing? >> let's see. >> the paul ryan -- >> it's just all natural. >> really? >> he works out. >> i work out. >> every day? >> no, i don't work out every day. i like to work out. i grew up playing sports. i like to run, lift weights, play sports. it's natural to me. >> not bad. another reason to hate you. >> well. >> if you weren't such a nice bloke, it would be easy to hate you. >> thank you. >> when people go to vote now in november, what is the key message? if you had barack obama and mitt romney here, you wanted them to declare things, what do you want them to declare truthfully to the electorate to make a decision about them? >> well, i don't know if i can give them advice. the book is about declaring, declare god's faithfulness in my life, declare god's wisdom in my life, declare that i have favor from god to make the right decision. >> those are great things for them to declare. >> sure. but when you see them taking out ads, for example, which are deliberately negative, often flagrantly untrue, just really unpleasant, nasty attack ads, do you think that should stop in this country? you think it's just poison? >> i would love for it to but it seems as long as i can remember, it's always happened and from what i hear, the negative seems to work. it's a shame -- >> would you like it to stop? >> i would love it to stop. i would love it to stay on a higher level. i don't know if that's practical but i think it would be great if it would. i think things are taken out of context and you know, amplified and it's not necessarily like you said the full truth. >> it's been a pleasure to see you both again. unfortunately, i have to declare this interview over. i'm sure we will meet again very soon with the next book or whatever it may be. "31 promises to speak over your life." i willead this tonight, i know i will feel better tomorrow so tomorrow night's interviews will be a lot happier all around than today's have been. lovely to see you. coming up, a pop star who has a lot to say about politics. wyclef jean had his own presidential ambitions. i will ask him what he thinks about the race between mitt romney and president obama. capella university understands businesses are trying to come back from rough economic times. employees are being forced to do more with less. and the need for capable leaders is greater than ever. when you see these problems do you take a step back, or do you want to dive right in? with a degree in business from capella university, you'll have the knowledge to go further in your career than you ever thought possible. let's get started at capella.edu ♪ chirping beeping camera ahhhh drill sound chirping electric shaver shaking remote tapping sound shaking drill chirping tapping shaking remote wouldn't it be great to have one less battery to worry about? car honking irping the 2012 sonata hybrid. the only hybrid with a lifetime hybrid battery warranty. from hyundai. agents, say hello to the biggest hailstone in u.s. history. oh, that will leave a dent. which is exactly why we educate people... about comprehensive coverage. yep. the right choice now can pay off later. [ announcer ] we are insurance. ♪ we are farmers bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ plenty of hip-hop stars are opinionated when it comes to politics but not very many have attempt tod run for office themselves like wyclef jean. he rose from poverty and became a huge star with the fugees while developing a passion for politics. his new book details his struggles and successes and he joins me now for his first prime time interview. welcome. good to see you. here's the deal. you can either be involved in music or politics for the rest of your life, you can't do both, what would you choose? >> i would choose if i was in my 20s, i would say music. being in my 40s, i would definitely say politics. >> why are you so enthused by it? >> politics came from my uncle, ray joseph, the haiti ambassador to america, so politics has always been an undertone in the household. >> you're a surprising character. you voted for obama and down to perform the rnc convention this year, and you pulled out. what's that all about? >> the first thing is is i did not agree to perform at the rnc. willie nelsopulled out. you know what i'm saying? willie, you're my man, but that's who pulled out. what came across, the e-mail of my management, was something that said, a performance for veterans, and disabled, which i perform for vets. i had people that was in the military. once the e-mail went down, and it was like, rnc, i was like, you all know i can't do that. now, i'm not doing it because i have -- tend of the day, i have friends that are republican. you know, they are just going to vote for obama this time around. you know what i mean? >> yeah yeah. a lot of republican friends feel obama is the way to go. >> have you ever been republican, or always resolutely a democrat? >> coming from haiti, landing in the projects in brooklyn, going from welfare to public school, me and my brother, he goes to eastern nazarean college, and he goes to boston university. automatically, all my life, i would naturally be dem rat. >> jean. that's the french jean. >> it's actually jean, but what happened is my dad actually named me after the englishmen, so partially right and wrong. so he named me after wycleaf jean. >> but you are actually wycleaf jean. >> in texas, though, wycleaf jean. >> how do you think obama is doing? he has 49 days left to save the world and get re-elected. >> if i'm being critical, where we're at right now with the first term, he didn't get a bipartisan front, and what i mean by that, a lot of things he was trying to go for, congress was not allowing him to go through. and i think when it comes to his re-election, i think he's doing great, and i think -- i don't really think. i believe that he will be the next president. >> when you hear mitromney as you did yesterday in the secret tape emerged, talking about being half of america being victims, living off the state, not paying taxes, a very smeary condemning kind of rhetoric he used, how did you feel about that? >> i felt offended. offended in the sense i told you my story, coming from a background where we was in poverty and got a chance to make it in the american dream. i think that's the story. at the same time, i want to be clear, i have super, super rich friends that were always rich. but at the same time, they don't look down at us as if we're nothing, and the idea is people are people, and i think the government still plays a crucial part of what we do. >> what does it come down to you, this election? what do you think those still trying to make their minds up should really focus on? >> if you foll wycleaf jean on twitter, which i have over 1 million, probably more than that. i think we need a president who has a cool head, not a president that reacts off emotion or anger. if you look at what's going on outside of america, with the rest of the world, you have to have somebody that comes in and understand that. the second part of it is, of course, i think the economy is crucial. we have to put people back to work. and i think with obama's second term, i think that he'll realize that. >> well, it's been a real pleasure. the book is a fascinating read "purpose." come back and see us again. >> thank you, sir. >> a man who gives new meaning to going for gold. [ woman ] it's 32 minutes to go time, and the candidate's speech is in pieces all over the district. the writer's desktop and the coordinator's phone are working on a joke with local color. the secure cloud just received a revised intro from the strategist's tablet. and while i make my way into the venue, the candidate will be rehearsing off of his phone. [ candidate ] and thanks to every young face i seeut there. [ woman ] his phone is one of his biggest supporters. [ female announcer ] with cisco at the center... working together has never worked so well. ♪ [ male announcer ] introducing a stunning work of technology. introducing the entirely new lexus es. and the first-ever es hybrid. this is the pursuit of perfection. and get outstanding deals with the travelocity fall hotel sale. you can save up to 40% on select hotels. so book your hotel now and save up to 40%. hurry, offer ends soon. book now at travelocity. tonight, "only in america," as good as gold. cast your mind a few months, ages in political terms. remember when ron paul was on the campaign trail, logging his country back to the gold standard. >> i wish we would could get back to the sound currency and get back to the gold standard. >> one american took ron paul very, very seriously. meet walter somasco jr. the 69-year-old nevada man who was a reclus who hadn't worked in more than 40 years and had only $200 in his checking account. he had $7 million -- you heard me -- $7 million worth of gold coins in his garage. >> i never seen that much gold in my life. >> the amount of it was overwhelming.
surrender without more bloodshed, but he needs time, he says. he claims he hasn't spoken to him in weeks. the son who he says has always loved america. paula newton, cnn, sauna, yemen. "the situation room" with wolf blitzer starts right now. we may never know exactly how many jobs the stimulus package saved on are created. a controversial change in the map. one republican is accusing the white house of cooking the books. plus america's verdict on president obama's first year in office. has it been a success or a failure? stand by for some eye-opening results of our brand-new poll. and iran blames the united states and israel for the assassination of one of its nuclear scientists. the bomb attack now ratcheting up tensions and iran's nuclear standoff with the west. i'm wolf blitzer in cnn's command center, for breaking news, politics and extraordinary reports from around the world. you're in "the situation room." all that coming up, but this just coming into "the situation room." a new breach of airline security, this time it's a potential health threat, not a terror threat. u.s. airways now confirms a person on the cdc's do not board list flew from philadelphia to san francisco on saturday. let's go to our senior medical correspondent elizabeth cohen. what happened here? >> someone somewhere along the way dropped the ball. the way it words is the centers for disease control has a list of people who they think are basically a threat to public health, shouldn't be on a plane. this person was apparently on that list, the cdc gives the list to the tsa. the tsa is supposed to give that list to individual airlines, but something went wrong here. i find this next part a bit interesting. u.s. air has told cnn they have not contacted the passengers on the plane, the reason being the cdc saying that it's a low risk. the flight was about six hours long, so the airline says they have not contacted any passengers. wolf? >> how does tb spread? >> tb spreads person to person. it goes through the air. so tb individuals person to person. the bacteria can stay in the air for many hours, and it's really close repeated contact that tends to do it. so i do want to emphasize here that the canses of getting tb from someone on a plane are really quite slim, even on long flights, even sometimes spouse it is don't get tb from each other, so this isn't something that would spread through an entire aircraft that easily. >> it sort of reminds me of another incident, what happened back in 2007 when something similar occurred. >> right, andrew speaker, a gentleman from here in georgia, gone on several planes. the cdc had told him not to board airports. what's interesting is that they checked many, many months later, and nobody on those planes got sick, or at least no one reported getting sick. so here's someone with tb on several flights and nobody became ill. so i think it's important to remember that. >> we're going to speak later with dr. anthony fauchi. he'll be joining us on this and more. thank you, elizabeth. we're keeping an eye on a piano tenchal dangerous situation in morehead city. one container was punctured, that material is petn. officials say the spill has been contained, but the downtown area near the port has been evacuated. no word on where the shipment came from our where it was headed. the city 'mayor says this appeared to be an accident and there are no concerns about terrorism. now to the $787 billion question. how many americans got jobs because of the president's economic stimulus package? the obama administration's ongoing tally has been the target of a lot of criticism and allegations of fuzzy math. so the white house is doing some recalculating right now. let's go to our white house correspondent dan lothian. it looks like there's a major change, dan, in how the white house is calculating jobs saved or created. >> that is a major change, wolf. you know, all along the pitch from the administration has been, when talking about this stimulus money, how many jobs we're saved or created. they've been keeping this running total. but the last number we saw, 640,000, as you see on the wall, that came as of september. now they are changing that formula, but even that hasn't satisfied all the critics. sometimes the numbers changed, but the message was consistent. >> the goal here is that we're going to create or save 600,000 jobs over the next 100 days. because of the bold and coot nated action that we took, millions of jobs have been saved or created. >> reporter: the $787 billion stimulus program would save jobs for police officers or create new ones for idle construction workers, but the term "saved" or "created ways controversial, because calculating the jobs not eliminated wasn't an exact science. >> the idea that the administration could say a plus b equals c and come up with a number, that was not something that would ever be realistic. >> reporter: so in a little noticed memo, the i've of management and budget made what it calls common-sense changes to provide more accurate data. gone is saved on or created, now the phrase is jobs funded with government modern, whether they are new or dpising. although change, they're not going to keep a running total, only calculating how many jobs are funded every quarter. the changes came after concerns from not only people getting the money, but also members of congress, and finally a recommendation from the government accountability office. while many folks would put the report on a shelf se tom gavin, we took what they had to say to heart. some experts say this is the better formula. >> i think this is really practically the only honest way to measure what the stimulus is being spent on. >> reporter: but a ranking member of the house oversight and government reform commit aye who considered the old accounting misleading is still not satisfied. >> it's not going to define how many jobs were in fact saved as a result of our money going to the states or the cities. it's still going to basically be money spent and a guess about number of jobs. >> reporter: the congressman says he's also critical of the accounting process over this quarterly review now, he says he would much rather see something come out in a mower realtime process. the administration says it's not bothered at all by the criticism, pointing out that those not happy now complained the former system was too complicated. jack cafferty is up next. also, when you fly from now on, should you be seated near some pistol-packing pilots? there's a push to allow pilots to carry guns on planes when they're not flying the plane. also deaths in atlanta, there's been a shootic there, and police are updating the public about the alleged shooter. and the president is walking into a tricky situation, our surprising new poll numbers we're about to release them. they show just about as many people like the administration as dislike. ncr vo: ...find a ney tow truck or gas station... anncr vo: ...call emergency services... anncr vo: ...collect accident information. anncr vo: or just watch some fun videos. anncvo: it's so easy, a caveman can do it. caveman: unbelievable... caveman: where's my coat? it was suede with the fringe. vo: download the glovebox app free at geico.com. -- you are tough in this country, but you would never know it, watches the way congress spends our tax money on themselves. cbs news has a stunning report on the all-expense paid trip of at least 20 members of congress to the copenhagen climate summit to last month. the bipartisan delegation was so large they needed three military jets, two 737s, and a gulfstream 5. some members of congress brought along their spouses, their kids. there were also senators and staff members who made the trip, most of them flies over commercial. pelosi refused to answer any questions about cost for this or where they all stayed, even though she was the one who decided who went. her office says only that it will, quote, comply with disclosure requirements, unquote. cbs puts the cost of military jet flying time at about $170,000, plus the cost of dozens of commercial flights, hundreds of hotel stays, many at the five-star marriott, and tens of thousands in meals and other entertainment expense. it's a disgrace. the national unemployment rate is 10%, employers cut more jobs than expected just last month. we got the numbers on friday. people are suffering in this country, california, pelosi's home state is faced with a $20 billion budget deficit. governor schwarzenegger's budget plan will force 200,000 children off low-cost medical insurance, will end home care for more than 300,000 sick and elderly citizens, and will cut income assistance to hundreds of thousands more. this nation is hurting, but nancy pelosi can use three military jets for a trip to copenhagen, then refuse to answer any questions about it. here's the question -- how much to members of congress feel the pain of people during this recession? go to cnn.com/caffertyfile. what a horrible woman she is. wolf? >> jack, you've got to tell us how you really feel. >> i just did. she's a horrible woman. >> i heard you say that. jack, we'll see what our viewers think about nancy pelosi, and this whole question, jack's e-mail will be coming up soon. almost one year in there's a split decision on president obama, deposition on whom you ask, he's either helping or hurting the economy, strong other weak on terror and pushing poach health care reform, or what critics deride and obama-care. you can see how split the decision is in our fresh poll. look at this. 47% say the administration's first year is a success, 48% say it's a failure. on the president's job approval, 51% approve, 48% disapprove. let's bring in our senior political analyst gloria borger. she's digging in deeper. let's get to the specific issues. >> there's a strong division, wolf, on the issue. so let's look at foreign policy first. as you see up on the wall, 53% approval on iraq, 51% afghanistan, 51% foreign affairs generally, 50% terrorism. so the president, the new commander in chief does very very well on foreign policy, but domestic policy, that's more problematic for him. unemployment 45, the economy 44, taxes 44, but look at these two, health care 40%, that's pending in the congress, and the federal deficit, a big issue looming for him out there, that's 36%. the problem, of course, is if you look in our poll further, you'll see that domestic policy is what the voters really, really care about right now. that's why you see the administration pivoting to the jobs issue, they want to get health care done, they want an energy bill, they want financial regulations passed. they know what happened to ronald reagan in 1982 with 10.4% unemployment. he lost 26 seats in the house. they don't want to see that happen again. >> it's still the economy after all, when all is said and done. what's keeping him afloat? >> this has always been the case for president obama. people like him. we asked about his personal qualities. 64% say they like his personal qualities. so that is keeping him afloat personally, but that doesn't do much help his own democrats. they're facing reelection in 2010, all of them in the house are, so barack obama being popular doesn't do that much for them. >> yeah, he's got a lot of issues right now, as they say. >> right. >> thanks very much for that, gloria, don't go too far away. if these still painful economic times, the heads of some of the biggest banks in the united states are hours away from being grilled about what went wrong, including what they did wrong. it's coming at a time when anger at financial bigwigs may be as strong as ever. mary snow has been looking into this story for us. it sets the stage for an event that's about to take place tomorrow, mary. >> reporter: what we'll see, wolf, is four banking ceos in washington to face questions. tomorrow marks the first public hearing held by the bipartisan panel, given the job of investigating the financial crisis, and the question is, will it make a difference? what led to the current financial crisis? answering that question will be the ceos of goldman sachs, j.p. morgan chase, morgan stanley and bank of america, the four biggest investment firms in the united states. they'll feed questions from a ten-member bipartisan panel appointed by congress. it's models at the pecora commission that investigated the great depression that followed the it stock market crash. economist simon johnson, author of "13 bankers" calls it an opportunity for the panel. >> the bonuses today, the bonuses the banks plan to pay for 2009, have an eerie parallel with the size and structure of the bonuses they paid in 2007 before the crisis, and in some views, in my view, contributing to the crisis. so they need to make that link and make it very human and very specific. >> reporter: keeping the story human, johnson says, is key in hearings that can become too technical. the chair is philip angelides. one panel men eid ask the public to weigh in on his blog. among the responses, one nagging question i have to any of four, how do you sleep at night? but some analysts raise question about the panel itself, namely can it be effective when congress and the administration are already looking at reforms. >> there's a legislative process to reform regulation is well under way. so the questions will be raised, how can commissions report be relevant for diagnosing problems if the problem-solving has gone down its way on the legislative track. >> reporter: while those differences may be, most agree even the lobbyist group for the banks that the hearings could grow heated. >> we do expect some fireworks, but i think laying out the record about what happened and what the industry has done to correct the problems and mountains takes its made will help restore confidence. >> some economists say in order to fix the problem, the panel needs specifics, including questions such as findinging out who the managers were at the banks while they lost so much money and are the same managers still in play and getting bonuses? ed findings are due in december. >> we'll watch this panel's work throughout this year. mary, thank you. officials say he's a pirate who terrorized the high seas. now there's shocking new charges against the captured suspect being tried in new york. regarding the suicide bomber who allegedly recently killed cia officers in afghanistan, we've learned somebody that raises this question. was the bomber just minutes away from possibly be stopped? [ male announcer ] welcome to the now network, population 49 million. right now 1.2 million people are on sprint mobile broadband. 31 are streaming a sales conference from the road. 154 are tracking shipments on a train. 33 are iming on a ferry. and 1300 are secretly checking email on vacation. that's happening now. america's most dependable 3g network. bringing you the first and only wireless 4g network. right now get a free 3g/4g device for your laptop. sprint. the now network. deaf, hard-of-hearing and people with speech disabilitie. december ra feyerick is monitoring other top stories in "the situation room." what's going on? >> we're getting more information on a deadly shooting in suburban atlanta. police say three people were shot and killed at a penske truck rental. police say the suspected shooter, a former employee, is in custody. we'll update you as we get more details. 3,100 troops based mostly at if the hood are being deployed as part of president obama's plan. in all, the president is sending 30,000 more troops to fight that war in afghanistan. new charges are being brought against an accused somali pirate. prosecutors in new york allege the man was involved in two other ship hijackings, including one ship that's still being held. captured last year, he's accused of being the head of a gang that attacked the maersk alabama." at least 57 strikes called major damage to air krafl. among the incidents that u.s. airways flight that went into the hudson. denver had the most bird strikes with 273, including one in which a bald eagle was succeed into a jet engine. conan o'brien suggests in a statement that he will not accept nbc's proposal to move "the tonight show" to a later time to accommodate an 11:35 p.m. show hosted by jay leno. he says moving it would cause its destruction, and that he hopes he and nbc can resolve the matter. >> all right. thanks very much for that. this programming note. here next week "the situation room" will start at a new time. we'll be on the air from 5:00 to 8:00 p.m. rick sanchez and "rick's list" will go from 3:00 to 5:00. we start next month, 5:00 p.m. eastern. a new warning from airline pilots. they say there's arch easy step to increase security and it's not being taken. would you like a pony ? yeah ! ( cluck, cluck, cluck ) oh, wowww ! that's fun ! you didn't say i could have a real one. well, you didn't ask. even kids know when it's wrong to hold out on somebody. why don't banks ? we're ally, a new bank that alerts you when your money could be working harder and earning more. it's just the right thing to do. preferred package. good choice. only meineke lets you choose your service, choose your savings. like an oil change for just $19.95. meineke. to our viewers, you're in "the situation room." happening now, the race for the late ted kennedy's senate seat is heating up as the candidates spar over how the outcome of the vote could affect health care reform. that vote in one week. iran lashing out at the united states after one of its top nuclear scientists is killed in a bomb blast. we have the latest from tehran on the attack, plus the state department's response. i'm wolf blitzer, you're in "the situation room." every terrorist or suspect you hear is caught, many others wait in line to do harm. but what if one or more of them actually succeeds? that's a disturbing possibility, as experts say. this year terrorists could say even better more emboldened than last year. brian todd has been speaking to a lot of sources. >> we're told al qaeda may have hit on a strategy that could stretch america's counterterror efforts very thin across the globe. an attack that came frightening close to succeeding. u.s. officials say the airline bombing attempt also served as a chilling symbol of an al qaeda that's nim bling changing its playbook. >> we have to whack a lot of moles all simultaneously. that's what we have to do with this global move that is al qaeda. >> reporter: from the airline conspiracy to the killing of cia personnel, to a denver bus driver charged in a plot to targets new york, officials and experts tell us of an al qaeda that more and more leans on afl yeats and solo operators to launch attacks. regularly communicating with them and providing them with strategic direction. >> they're trying to look for ways and vulnerabilities to get their operatives here to the united states or in other places to carry out these attacks. >> reporter: part of this plants is the result of american success. u.s. drone strikes and other attacks have weekened the central leadership along the pakistan/afghanistan border. they forced the organization to adopt a strategy that sounds like a corporate blueprint, with experts using terms like outsourcing and franchising. sam razzkoff says this could prove a deadly game plan in the coming year. >> al qaeda and its networks seem to be getting that much closer to successfully pulling off an attack inside the united states, for 2010 to be worse would mean, first and at doing . i think i'm not alone among counterterrorism experts in thinking that's a real possibility. >> raskoff says one part of that maybook that likely won't change is al qaeda's fafrts targets. they're till fascinated with airlines, train hubbs, don't expect those to move off the list. >> what are you hearing -- >> to overuse another sports term, zone defense. this will require more surgical-type operations. the u.s. has been doing some of that, they've got to do a lot more in the coming year. >> brian todd, thanks very much for that, very worrisome story indeed. to help fight terror, should pistol-packing pilots be sitting near you? let's bring in jeanne meserve. what are you learning, jeanne? >> in the aftermath of the christmas day bombing attempt, there's been a big push to improve air security, but some pilots say there is one easy step that is not being taken. these are federal flight deck officers. ffdos, pilots trained to carry guns to proekt their cockpits, but when these pilots are passengers on aircraft, they are not allowed to carry their weapons, and they ask, why not? >> they are being wasted. they're already there on the aircraft, already transcripting their fire amounts, already commuting and deadheading in the aircraft. all that needs to be done is to simply turn that system on. >> but the transportation security administration has not done so. in a statement, the agency says the ffdos are a valued layer of aviation security, but to carry a firearm beyond their primary jurisdiction, defense of the flight detect, would require not only a change in law, but additional training hours. the air transport association which represents the airlines says commercial airline cabin security is best handled through the federal air marshal program. >> have a seat, take it easy, lean forward, i'm a federal air marshall, you're being placed under arrest. >> reporter: some say a law enforcement officer is better trained than a pilot, the fear expressed by some is armed pilots in the passenger cabin would become a bunch of dirty harrys, but the ffdo organization argues that no one knows the environment better than pilots. >> you travel in the back of the aircraft with us all the time. you travel at 80% of the speed of sound with us, we make decision about weather every day, you trust or judgment and you trust us with your lives, why would you not trust with us your security? >> reporter: the department of homeland security is training personnel from component agencies to supplement the federal air marshals. the ffdos say it would be faster and cheaper to train them. >> how long would it take to train these pilots? >> the ffdo association claims there has been an internal tsa study of this that it would only take a day or two to get them ready to carry a gun in the passenger cabin, but we have no confirmation of that from the tsa. >> jeanne meserve, thanks very much. we're digging deeper on the lead story, the tb patient who was able to get on a plane despite being on the cdc's do not board list. i'll talk about that with a renown expert, dr. anthony fauchi of nih. we have an update on a spat. one side is now blinking. and this is a seat from the seven passenger toyota highlander. this is a little seat, i'm a big girl. well this is the eight- passenger chevy traverse. which offers more room and an epa estimated 24 on the highway. that's a big girl car. i want the big girl car. a very smart little girl. the chevy traverse. amer. compare us to anyone and . upbeat rock. ♪ s♪ i know i know i knowo can i shoulda gone to ♪ ♪ free credit report dot com! ♪ that's whp$e i shoulda gone! coulda got my knowledge on! ♪ ♪ vo: free credit score and report with enrollment in triple advantage. preferred package. good choice. only meineke lets you choose your service, choose your savings. like an oil change for just $19.95. meineke. it was only a couple months ago that most of the united states was reporting widespread flu activity, all these states in red, and people across the country were having to wait in long lines because of a shortage of the h1n1 vaccine. now the government is more than 130 million doses available, and only one state, alabama, reports widespread flu activity. joining us to talk about this national influenza vaccination week, dr. anthony fauci, at the national institutes of health. dr. fauci, thanks very much for coming in. iismgts good to be here. >> is the h1n1 scare over? >> um, no. the issue with h1n1 is not over. i wouldn't necessarily call it a scare, but we need to continue to be vigilant, and at this time we really want to push to get people vac nated who have not been racks nated. we have a golden opportunity. the activity as you mentioned a moment ago, wolf, is low in the united states, because only one state is reporting widespread activity, but we have a lot of vaccine people. we want people to get vaccinated, particularly those individuals who have underlying conditions such as asthma, heart disease, lung disease, and a variety of other chronic conditions, which would make them much more prone to get the complications of influenza if they get influenza infection. so we want to protect those people, so we're encouraging all people who want to get vac nated, but particularly those with underlying conditions to get vaccinated now, we have plenty of vaccine. >> but a lot of people have written to me say it's a little late in the season to be vaccinated? norm ade you're recommending october or november, and now we're into january. >> absolutely, wolf, it's not too late. there's certainly a possibility of another wave of activity of influenza. back in the pandemic of 1957-58, when it peaked in the early winter, we thought it was over, and in the deeper part of the winter we started to see increased cases and deaths, so it is not over by any means. there's a great value in getting vaccinated if you've not been vaccinated. as i mentioned, particularly people with underlying conditions, but anyone who's not gotten vaccinated should seriously consider it, because there's a possibility we will have more activity as we deeper into the winter. >> has this season been milder than you thought it would be, which would be good news, obviously, as far as the swine flu or the h1n1 is concerned. >> well, as far as pandemics go, it certainly spread very efficiently. we've seen a lot of activity not only here in the united states, but worldwide. when you talk about mild, if you're referring to the seriousness of the condition, it hasn't been a particularly virulent type of virus. however, there are people, particularly younger people, who have gotten infected, even younger people with no underlying conditions, who have had serious problems, as well as pregnant women. there have been about 10,000 deathing from this h1n1, about 1,000 of them have been in children 18 years old and younger, so this is not something to be taken lightly. in the big picture, it hasn't been a very virulent type of pandemic, but for those who have gotten sick and serious complications, it is serious. we cannot take it lightly, which is the reason why during this influenza vaccination week we're encouraging people to get vaccinated. >> i've seen critics because of exaggerating the virus, because of pressure they're getting from drug companies to sell the vaccine. i would love for you to responses respond if you don't mind. >> that's just nonsense. what we've doane is encouraging people to get vac nated is purely motivated on public health consideration, so i don't have any idea what these people are talking about. this is a public health concern an the right things are being done from a public health standpoint. now u.s. airways confirming that someone with tuberculosis was allowed to board a flight to san francisco last saturday. how serious of a problem is this? >> it shouldn't have happened, first of all. there's not an excuse for that, but we have experience with people who happened to have gotten on plains with tuberculos tuberculosis. whether or not there's a risk if any, high, low, whatever, of transmitting it to people on a flight. the possible of your transmitting that to another passengers on the plane is extraordinarily low. though that person should not broadband let on that flight, the fact remains since it was a flight that was only five or six hours is really very, very low. do you have any idea how this individual who was on this list managed to get on that flight? have you looked into that? >> no, i haven't had a chance to do that, wolf, i don't know what the slip-up was there. >> they better learn and make sure it doesn't happen again. any risk is unacceptable, as i'm sure you agree. dr. fauci, thanks very much. >> i agree. i agree. >> thank you for coming in. >> good to be here. >> a lot of them have not received the h1n1, but you're saying go out and get it, it's not too late. >> indeed. >> thank you. thank you very much. deborah feyerick is monitoring some other stop stores. deb, what's going on? >> two stylists appeared as part of a grand jury investigation, involving the couple that got into the white house statement. they arrived in a white hummer limo. the appearances will cover conversations with the salahis the day of the dinner. the couple spend hours with these people being groomed before heading to the white house. parts of central florida are dealing with massive sinkholes, this one in frost proof. it swallowed up a carport and almost an entire home. two our sinkholes shut down a highway there and more appeared in plant city. sinkholes can appeared when groundwater is pumped out in large quantities, which has been occur to protect florida oranges from the cold. the woman who risked her life to help high anne frank has died. she was the last of six non-jews who smuggled foot books and other things to the attic. she help preserve the legacy by saving the diary after the apartment was raided. she was 100, one of the few still alive who knew anne frank. >> she did amazing work. thanks very much. if at first you don't success, perhaps try again. is that what harold ford jr. is now saying? he previously lost the senate race in tennessee, now he's considering the senate race in new york. and one reformed extremist calls it the biggest deception ever hitting intelligence agencies regarding that double agency who went on a suicide bombing mission in afghanistan. how did he fool two of the world's best spy agencies? ♪ [ male announcer ] introducing the all-new lexus gx. ♪ it has the agility to avoid the unexpected... ♪ ...the power to take on any mission, and the space to accommodate precious cargo, because every great action hero needs a vehicle. ♪ for all the moments that make every day special. fancy feast appetizers. [dinner bell chimes] high quality ingredients like wild alaskan salmon in a delicate broth, without by-products or fillers. fancy feast appetizers. celebrate the moment. let's talk first about harold fort junior. he's thinking of challenging kirsten guillen brand. he once ran for the u.s. senate from tennessee. some have already questioned he writing whether i should be writing. your friends over at the white house not very happy, james, about this. they would like to see guillenbrand get elected. >> and so would i. i like hall ford, he's a friend of mine. but senator from tennessee, i actually wanted him to be chairman of the dnc. he's a great guy, but i think -- i don't know what particular bosses he's talking about. senator guillillenbrand has don great job. >> the argument being that he might have a better chance of beating a republican than gil n gillenbrand, i don't necessarily buy it, but if he were running against a republican, i would be for him in a second, but i think gillibrand is doing a tremendous job, quite a remarkable woman, and i don't know what he's talking about, the bosses or something like that. that's some rhetoric that i'm not sure we need to be engaging in here. this is an important senate seat. >> what's wrong with a democratic challenger -- let me bring it ken blackwell. from your perspective, what's wrong with harold ford challenging kristin gillibrand. >> as james know, i encourage that competitive match 110%. we would really love to have a new york banker like harold ford, a carpetbagger to run against in the november election. so i encourage him 100%. this is a free country, he's a free man. give the voters of new york a choice. >> he's lived in new york state for three years, lives in lower manhattan right now. you still think that would brand him as a carpetbagger, ken? >> i am sure that the chicago machine would put all of the negative labels on him that they can. he's going up against the machine. yorld harold really knows how hard they play ball not only in new york, but in the windy city of chicago, where most of president obama's organizers come from. >> james, he's lived longer in new york state than hillary clinton lived in new york state before she ran for the senate. >> you're not hearing any carpetbagger charge from me. i just think -- that would be -- i haven't said a word about that, and i reject it out of i think good democrats are entitled -- i'm not saying he doesn't have the right to run. i just don't think that a run at an incumbent senator doing a good job is a smart thing. he has a right to run, i like him, he's a friend of mine, and i'll like him when he's over, but i'm not that enthusiastic for, but no, he has a right to run in new york just like senator robert kennedy did, just like senator clinton did. i don't question his right. >> he says aim strongly considering running. he didn't say he's definitely going to run. ken blackwell, let me get your reaction to harry reid, the uproar over the past few days about the comments he made quoted in this new book. mitch mcconnell, the senate republican leaders says, let's put this away. here's what he said today. >> the chairman of your party, michael steele said on sunday, if you had said similar words, then democrats from the president on down would be calling for your head and calling all republicans racist, do you agree with that? >> who will be the democratic leader of the senate is up to the democratic conference. >> he's saying, you know what, he doesn't think that harry reid needs to resign. what do you think, ken blackwell? >> well, i'm an equal opportunity critic. i was very critical of trent lott, and i was equally critical of what harry reid had to say, but that's a decision that the democrats are going to have to make, so i would agree with senator mcconnell that that's their call. i'm just saying that i think that the critics on the other side of the aisle need to be equal-opportunity critics. they were really tough on trent lot. i think they should be equally tough on harry reid. >> not james carville, because he didn't think trent lott needed to resign. >> that's right, i didn't, but that's like saying an armed robber should be treated the same as a jaywalker, but i was ready to forgive the armed robber, so i wouldn't get ought jacked up about a jaywalker. i never thought there was anything about resigning, what michael steele was even talking about. i didn't think lott should resign. i think we're obliged to forgive people. >> what do you think of michael steele's leadership at the rnc? >> i think he has some challenging moments, but in 21st century american politics, don't we all? i think there will be a big meeting at the end of the month out in hawaii of the rnc, i think he'll make hi case and either have his leadership reaffirmed or he will have his invitation to his critics to send him packing met, and that's pretty straightforward. >> it sounds like former secretary of state blackwell is as enthusiastic about michael steele staying as i am harold ford running for the senate. i thought i detected a little hesitancy there. >> that's why we love politics as much as we do, guys. >> absolutely. >> thanks for coming in, always a good discussion. animal rights activists are giving in in a spat with the first lady. now they want something from the president. stand by. the election to fill the late senator ted kennedy's seat in massachusetts, one week away. top democrats including bit clinton are scrambling to protect the seat. and a nuclear scientist killed in a bomb attack in iran. the u.s. is responding to angry accusations by tehran that americans had something to do with it. have an old 401k? 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[ robert ] we created legalzoom to help people start their business and launch their dreams. go to legalzoom.com today and make your business dream a reality. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side. let's get to jack. >> the question is how much do members of congress feel the pain of the american people in the recession? even though medicare costs and supplement costs continue to rise. they do for themselves, and the rest of us can fly a kite. j.w. in georgia writes -- poor congress, must be very painful. dell in california writes -- you want to read more on the subject, i got a lot of mail, go to cnn.com/caffertyfile. to our viewers, you're in "the situation room." happening now, a bombing in tehran kills a nuclear scientist, tensions rise as iran blames the united states, israel and opposition groups, but the killing and motive all shrouded in mystery. new details on how a double agent managed to blow himself up at a secret base in afc, killing eight intelligence operatives, seven of them americans, and new information on how he may have fooled two of the world's best spy agencies. and the head of a special election to fill the late senator ted kennedy's seat. democrats may be start to go sweat right now. why the outcome may be crucial to health care reform. i'm wolf blitzer, you're in "the situation room." a shattering explosion in a quiet neighborhood of iran's capital kills a nuclear scientist and sends shockwaves spreading across the world. unpressure to halt its nuclear efforts, iran is now lashing out at the united states. our foreign affairs keernt jill dougherty is following this story for us. jill, what's been the reaction? >> well, wolf, you know, why did -- that's the question, why did this scientist die? if you ask the state department, they admit they're still trying to understand it all. they say that the situation in iran is opaque. that's the word they use, and they say the only thing crystal clear is that the united states had nothing to do with it. >> blood and questions on the streets of tehran, a remote-controlled bomb hiding in a motorcycle explodes, killing massoud ali mohamadi, a nuclear physicist. the iranian government contends the killing. government-controlled media blame what they called u.s./recalli mercenaries, including an opposition group that wants to bring back to power the shah of iran. >> the idea, the discussion, the charge that the united states had anything to do with a murder in tehran today is absurd. >> reporter: the assassination, an eerie reminder of the disappearance of another iranian nuclear scientist last summer. the iranian government claims he was abducted and is being held by the americans. washington's been tight-lipid on where that scientist might be. all this comes as the u.s. and five other countries pressing iran to come clean on its nuclear program debate new sanctions on tehran. secretary of state hillary clinton who once threatened what they so-called crippling sanctions, now talks about targeting a small group of decision makers in iran. >> our gold is to pressure the iranian government, particularly the revolutionary guard elements without contributing to the suffering of the ordinary iraqis who deserve better than what they currently are receiving. >> back in tehran, locked in political chaos, rumors abound over who wanted the nuclear professor dead. this tehran university student thinking it could be the americans or the british. considering the recent incidents in the country, he says, both sides are attempting to discredit each other. in such chaos, it's normal someone would try to add fuel to the fire. the u.s. and its allies will meet in new york this weekend to discussion revving up sanctioning, but the state department is no longer referring to the new year's deadline that president obama set. instead, they are saying that this is just the beginning of a very long process, and that's another indication that this standoff could continue to drag on. wolf? >> certainly looks like it will. jill, thank you. this isn't the first time someone connected with iran's military or nuclear program has died or disappeared under mysterious circumstances. in may, a nuclear scientist vanished while on a religious pilgrimage. iran accuses the u.s. of account nape him. another scientist died in 2007 under mysterious circumstances. iranians say he died of gas poisoning. other reports. in to 04, a defense minister vanished in turkey. "the washington post" reports he defected to the west. intrigue and assassination, the bombing in iran has the elements of suspension fix, but it's all too real. "the washington post" columnist david ig neighborius is a veteran columnist. his latest thriller, is entitled "the increment" and involves an iranian nuclear scientist who turns to the cia. >> sound familiar? >> it sounds family. i've been covering the story for a long time. whose fingerprints do you see on this latest assassination? >> on the bombing in tehran this morning of ali mohammedi, i don't see any fingerprints yes. the iranian claim this was a u.s. organized plot, there's reason to be doubtful of that. to undertake an operation of that sort would require a lethal covert action, a covert action in which people would end up getting killed. the agency does that very rarely. it's hard for me to imagine that being granted in this case. there are examples in the past where the israelis are believed to have acted very aggressively against iranian and syrian operatives who are involved in weapons of mass destruction programs, so you can't rule that out, but the evidence we have about this man makes me skeptical he would have been a target for the israelis. >> because he was an opposition figure? >> from what we have gathered today, he opposed the regime in tehran, he signed petitions supporting the opposition candidate mousavi, so there's reason to doubt he would be a target for the israelis or anyone in the west. does the u.s. have good intelligence on what's going on in iran? >> when i asked that question, i'm told it's not good enough. this is a very hard targets. we don't have an embassy where we could hide spies. but i think to the honest answer is it's opaque to the united states, the cia is working hard to get new sources, new ways of getting inside. obviously or greatest strength is our technical systems, and i'm sure those have been aggressive and fairly effective, but in terms of human spies on the ground, not so easy. >> because in terms of aerial surveillance or whatever, it's hard when some of these facilities supposedly involved nuclear programs are deep underground, but the electronics systems that run them, the messages that are part of controlling them are not, and in this day and age, it's possible to penetrate those systems, but i'm shoot the cia and national security agency having aggressive in that doing that. it's just having the human beings there to assess intentions to get behind something like what happened today in tehran is very difficult. >> is the opposition movement in iran right now garening strength or losing strength? >> i think the right way to look at this is say it's not dying out. it's very difficult for this opposition to mount sustained protests week after week. that's what happened in the overthrow of the shah. khomeini's people kept coming on. they're using the death of shiite religious festivals to organizele protests, but you'd have to say it's still there, still strong, but not really expanding. . >> unfortunately the answer seems to be yesterday. when i was in iran, i found that iranians of virtually any description all felt some pride in iran becomes a nuclear power in the sense of having the technology. you saw that when the iranians were negotiating in europe, in gen fiva in october, and it seemed close to a deal with the west, that deal was attacked by the opposition, with the people we would support as being against iran's interests, so i think any successor regime would probably want to hold onto the program. >> don't go away. we have more to discuss. stand by. jack cafferty is coming up right after the break. also we have new details about what was happening in the final seconds before that deadly suicide bombing targeting cia operatives. david is here, we're going to talk about that. we have new information coming in. the special election that could determine health care reform. who will win the seat held for decades by the late senator kennedy. and conan o'brien venting his frustration over "the tonight show" shake-up. he's warnings that the changes will destroy the show. just news of a major earthquake in haiti, 7.3 earthquake in haiti, only about 22 miles west of the capital port aprince. we're watching this story. also a tsunami warning is in effect in the area, 7.3, that's the preliminary magnitude. we're expecting an update in the next few minutes, once again not very far from port-au-prince, and that very populated area of haiti. very disturbing story. we'll get more and share it with you. in the meantime, jack with "the cafferty file." my heart goes out. this could be bad. >> and earthquakes around water can get out of control. in this country it's turning out to be a piece of legislation nobody wants. except maybe the pharmaceutical and insurance companies. amid dire warnings from senator dodd that the health care reform bill, quote, is hanging on by a threat comes news from a major poll that the public is losing interest in this. after months of debate, a couple 2,000-page moan trosities managed to pass the house and senate and our leadership has now dragged these bulky documents behind closed doors out of sight of anyone in an attempt to reconcile them in a single lea. apparently it's not going so well. cbs news found only 36% of americans approve of the way the president is handling health care. 54% disapprove. congress's numbers are even worse. the bulk of the political damage, whichever way this goes, is likely to accrue to the president. he has spent most of his first year in office obsessed with health care reform. now that he's on the verge of getting something, we don't know what yet, the appetite for what was once a grand idea appears to have soured considerably. here's the question then. after months of debate, what are the chances that health care reform happens? go to cnn.com/caffertyfile, post a comment on my blog. wolf? >> jack, thank you. we're only one week away from the special election in massachusetts to fill the senate seat held by senator kennedy. and the race is heating up. the state attorneys martha coakley is getting a boost from the national party this afternoon, a source tells cnn some 500 donors are doing a conference call with dnc chairman tim kaine with a goal of raising hundreds of thousand foss oakley. she's facing republican state senator scott brown, whose campaign says it raised $1.3 million yesterday in an online fund-raising effort. our senior political analyst david gergen moderated a debate last night. one of the hot issues was health care reform, one kennedy's passions. listen to this. >> we know if this bill fails it could well be another 15 years before we see health care reform efforts in washington. are you willing to say i'm going to be the person, i'm going to sit in teddy kennedy's seat and block it for another 15 years. >> with all due respect it's not kennedy's seat or republican or democrat, it's the people's seat. they're going to send an independent thinker wo will look out -- >> i would be proud to be the 60th vote to make sure we get health care reform we so badly need. we are attacking costs to make sure we're bringing costs down. >> let's bring in david gergen in. remind our viewers why, one week from today, everyone who cares about health care reform, pro or con, needs to be concerned. >> well, if the republican were to win, scott brown were to win in massachusetts, an upset, he would become the 41st senator, and he could block health care reform in the senate, and his campaign, wolf, has gotten a lot of traction suddenly, unexpectedly, in the last few weeks by exactly that campaign pledge, i will be the 44th senator, will send this bill back. >> the democrats have two potential strategies, still a long shot, and you live in massachusetts, that he will win formed it would be a huge upset, but it is getting closer? >> it would be a huge upset. no republican has won a senate seat. since 1990 there have been seven senate elections. the average margin for the democrat has been 33 points over they last seven elections, so yes, it seems to be tightening up. i asked him about, and he's very fast on his feet. i asked him about the kennedy seat, because he is filling out the end of the term, but he saw an opening and very adroitly stuffed me on it, and i thought it was a smart answer, and he's impressing people. i think she'll still the favorite, i think she's a strong favorite, but he's certainly put in an air of unpredictability in the race. >> could the democrats -- let's say he wins and it's still a long shot, delay certification, in other words be sworn in as the senator from michigan so that they could try to pass health care reform first? >> yes, there are a couple options for the democrats should scott brown pull off an upset. one is they could simply have the house spend pass a senate bill. >> they would have to pass it verbatim without no change. >> and of course they want a lot of changes, so i think that's unlikely, but they could do it. the other thing is and that worries some people on the republican side in massachusetts and nationally is maybe they could extend out the vote count. the massachusetts state officials have ten days to count the votes. what if they took every one of those ten days, conceivably the democrats could get it done. the last time there was a special elect in massachusetts, it just took two days to certify it, so there are a lot of people asking why would it take ten days then? there's a lot of contention and suddenly a lot of focus nationwide on this race. >> there's one interesting, i guess, issue that's come up over the past few days. scott brown when he was at boston college law school, he posed for "cosmopolitan." i think we have a proficient picture of that, sort of posing nude. some people are saying if this were a woman candidate, and she had posed nude in "playboy" this could be a huge issue, but this is not necessarily has been a huge issue for scott brown? >> no, i find a lot of women chattering about it. he is a good-looking fellow, but he also has a daughter who was on "american idol" and a basketball star, but i have to tell you i think probably there is, if a woman had posed nude in her younger years, i imagine it would have been a real burden, but for him in this environment, you know, it's just part of the -- it's part of the -- it's part of the buzz about him, and he's got a lot of buzz right now. again, a very democratic state, one of the bluist of all of our states, and she has to be really the favorite. but he's created a momentum. there's a lot of democrats who want to send a message, i'm not happy with what's going on in washington. i may vote for brown to send a message, but some told me if he's going to lose, maybe i need to vote for coakley. >> a lot of folks around the country will be watching. thank you. we want to get back to this strong earthquake in haiti that we've been reporting on, the breaking news, we're now told it was a 7.0, the magnitude of this earthquake, not very far away from the capital of port-au-prince in haiti. the latest tsunami warning we're getting is also that thus a tsunami warning in effect as a result of this earthquake off the coast of haiti, the associated press, by the way, says this earthquake hit as impoverished area of haiti, most of the country i must say, i've been to haiti, is impoverished. a.p. is reporting a hospital has collapsed and people are screaming for help. the u.s. geological survey says the quake has a preliminary magnitude of 7.0, occurring just a little while ago, only 14 miles west of port-au-prince. all right. we're going to get more information, take a quick break and update you on what we know on this disturbing story developing in haiti. ♪ ♪ ♪ when it comes to protecting the things you care about... ...leave nothing to chance. travelers. insurance for auto, home, and business. strong earthquake has hit haiti in the caribbean. we're now being told by the associated press at least one hospital has collapsed, people are screaming for help according to the associated press, the u.s. geological survey says now the preliminary estimate is a 7.0, which is a large, very large earthquake, only occurring about 22 kilometers or 14 miles west of the capital port-au-prince of the haiti is a very, very poor country, highly populated, and we can only imagine what's going on in haiti right now. deborah feyerick is working the story for us as well. what are you picking up, deb, as far as this earthquake in haiti is concerned. >> monitoring the wires incoming, and obviously we have a number of calls out on this, we're being told it's a 7.0 earthquake, very strong on the scale there. a hospital has collapsed. that was witnessed apparently by an a.p. have i i don't grapher on the scene. another reporter in the area is saying there was a tractor on scene trying to dig out victims. three-story building that had collapsed. the big concern is a tsunami could follow this earthquake, because it is so strong, and there's a warning that has already gone out to haiti, cuba, bahamas, dominican republic, we're told those are the countries most affected, obviously haiti where the earthquake initially struck, we're told puerto rico doesn't seem to be in the threat of the tsunami, but right now big warrick for haiti, cuba, the bahamas and dominican republic. it does look like it's hit that country very hard, wolf. >> this is a country populated about 9 million people, deb, lift in haiti. we're told most of them about 60%, people from the ages of 15 to 64, large very young population, nearly 40% of the people of haiti are 14 years or younger. and as i say, this is a very poor country, a lot of the folks live along the coast of haiti, and this is precisely where that hurricane has hit, as we've been saying, only about 14 miles west of port-au-prince in haiti. we're getting more information even as we speak right now, getting information coming in from the national -- from the u.s. geological survey, as well as from the pacific tsunami warning center. as you say, deb, there is this tsunami warning, although there isn't a long history of tsunamis in that area. this warning says a possibility of a local tsunami that could affect coasts located usually no more than 100 kilometers from the earthquake epicenter, well, this epicenter occurring what, only 15 or 20 miles from the capital of port-au-prince. deb? >> if there is a tsunami in that area that could be a one-two punch. the country is trying to mobilize to try to get people out who get people out. if you have a tsunami that will further complicate things. once they warnings go out, really it's up to the country to respond, to react. it's a very poor country. many people there don't even have enough to eat. to saul of this is in play, wolf. >> stand by for a moment, deb. cnn international, our sister network is working the story as well. michael holmes is anchoring the story. let's listen in. >> if you're watching the replay, as things change, we'll update you, let this guy get to work. >> they're working that story at cnn international. chad myers is working the story for us, our severe weather expert. it sounds re ominous. >> it is, wolf. the problem is this is a shallow quake. this is six miles deep. if you're going to have a quake at 7.0, something like that, you said it very deep. then there's plenty of rock to almost cushion the blow to the surface. this is the same depth that the banda aceh tsunami happened. the shaking itself is more of a concern to me than any tsunami potential. the earthquake did happen below a land surface. there still could have been part of the sea surface that shook as well, but it's not like it was a quake under the water where the rupture under the water would have caused a large displacement of water. this is a displacement of land and the shaking will be devastating. you're talking about the coordinates of the country and the people around there. it isn't so much how much they make, but how well the buildings are built. they are not too what we could call to u.s. specifications. so these buildings will collapse and there's devastation that we haven't even talked about yet. this will be a long night, wolf. >> i've been to haiti. these structures, most of them, are not strong, certainly not capable of withstanding a hurricane -- excuse me, an earthquake the magnitude 7.0, which is a very large earthquake. these structures are primitive and some 9 million people live in haiti. we're try to go establish contact chad, you can only begin to imagine what might be going on as you say, this earthquake hit underground, only about 15 miles from the capital of port-au-prince, so that's devastating. >> there will be two types of wave, a t wave and s wave. the t wave is when the earth moves, the same way a front car of a change reaction moves. it moves because all the other cars behind it hit it. that will be the first one, the very quick and very first tremor felt in port-au-prince. then the s wave is almost like taking a slumpy, butt it on the table and almost making an "s" off it. they're unable to withstand the back-and-forth movement. that's almost more -- the secondary wave that i'm very concerned, the 7.0, only this far from a very large multimillion population down is caused quite a bit of devastation all the way from the epicenter. >> port-au-prince has a population of 2 million people. i can't emphasize enough, chad, in the poorest country in the western hemisphere, one of the poorest countries in the entire world, so these 9 million people who live in haiti, they have a tragedy, a crisis they're dealing with right now, and they're going to look to the entire world, especially the united states, i'm sure, for assistance. a 7.0 earthquake hitting haiti just moments ago. that assistance won't be able to get gotten in, given the primitive conditions, though a cry for help i am sure, chad, is going out. >> we also think about what the roadways are like, they are not all that high tech as well. so not just airplanes, but getting heavy equipment to be able to move some of this concrete structure away from some of these collapsed buildings will also be a task. they may have to literally rebuild some of the roads to get the equipment to this disaster. >> is there any good indication, a 7.0 magnitude coming as close as it is to a major urban center like port-au-prince, 2 million people live there, and given the nature of the structures there, chad, is there any good indication how devastating this could be? . >> wolf, i don't really even need to get there right now. this is a very bad situation. this is a concrete structure and structures that aren't put together with rebar well. they are not anchored to the ground by flexibility to allow the earth to shake or wobble back and forth. when concrete structures that are made solid to the ground shake with this ground, there's going to be a lot of collapse offer pancaking buildingses. those are the most devastating situations when people are caught under these large slabs of concrete, and it takes major equipment to get those slabs off. >> stand by for a moment, chad. jean bernard is joining us from port-au-prince right now, he's on the phone. thank you very much. can you describe the scene where you are? >> yes. >> unfortunately i think we have lost our connection with jean bernard. we're going to try to reconnect with them. we're also trying to connect with others in port-au-prince and elsewhere, but as you can imagine, communications right now are very, very difficult. chad myers is still with us. we're also getting some new information. chad, are you still there? >> i was saying we're trying to establish communications. but as you know and our viewers know, one of the first things that go out are communication lines. it's not going to be easy to get through, whether on a phone or any other connection. >> of course, and also the electricity wlb going out. even if you can think of wireless transmission, most of that wireless line would be connected to power companies that are from the port-au-prince area, and all of these wires, this they sxland in a spider web, and that's what this is. this is still an area where people would -- i use the word "commute" because that's what we think of it as, but these are satellite towns and villages where, you know, even the low level of income that some of the people have in downtown would even be exponential to these little small farming villaging where people have spent their entire lives, now all of a sudden this 7.0 is shaking hair tlifs and the earth like it's never shook before. this is not a quake that these people cannot live through, but this is a very dangerous situation at this points in time, with a lack of power, with probably you're going to see a lack of all sanitation for quite some time. a 7.0 quake at only 6 miles deep is almost the same as like an 8 quake that would be 50 or 60 miles deep. this is a very difficult situation and will take probably even hours for us to get good communicati communication. so we're doing our best in atlanta as well. >> i want to bring in jenny harrison. what are you picking up? >> it's all about the tsunami watch, wolf. that's what i have information on here. let's show again the area we're tacking about. the can zoom in here, we can actually see the area we're talking about, but a tsunami watch has been posted not just for haiti, but also for the dominican republic, also cuba and the bahamas. that is how far-reaching this could potential be, and these low-lies areas, as chad was saying, you have to remember the time of day, it will be dark in many areas. a tsunami watch means that a tsunami has not actually been spotted, but there is very much the possibility or the potential that a tsunami could arrive. it could be a series of waves, and they could take anything between five minutes to one hour to actually occur. it's a sort of situation where you may see a tsunami wave coming onshore and people could mistakenly be thinking the threat is over, but it's not over, because there could be more waving to come after that. the tsunami watch is in place, obviously for haiti, but also for the dominican republic, cuba and the bahamas, the whole area of the western caribbean is under basically a tsunami watch. >> and we'll be watching that very, very closely, jenny. i want you to show our viewers, if you can, where haiti is compared to cuba, some of the other places in the caribbean right now, and certainly how close it is to the united states. this goes the person portion of haiti. the dominican republic is out to the east. possibly i can show you, there are the bahamas, but as you know, it is just off the coast of florida of course, if that happens, we'll bring it straight to you. >> they share that island. are we getting any indication of damage in the dominican republic? >> we haven't had anything at all. nothing has come through to us here, but obviously as soon as we hear that, we'll make sure you hear about it. >> we're told a 5.9 aftershock has just been reported, which is also very significant, jenny. >> it is significant, and of course the damage that could already potential been done, wolf, when you have an aftershock as strong as 5.9, structures are already significantly weakened, so 5.9 on to have of a 7 and very, very soon after does indeed mean that some structures now could be coming down, and as i say, on top of that we have the tsunami watch in place as well. >> a very disturbing story. let me read what the associated press just moved on the wire. they have established contact can a visiting official from the u.s. department of agriculture, henry bond. everything is just totally freaked out and shaken, the sky is just gray with dust. bond says he was walking into his hotel room when the ground began to shake. he's in port-au-prince. i just hear a tremendous amount of noise and shouting and screaming in the distance. he said there were rocks strewn all over the place. he saw a ravine where several homes had been built, just full of collapsed wall and rubble and barbed wire. an eyewitness account for the associated precious coming in from henry bond, a visiting official from the u.s. department of agriculture. we're trying to establish contact with the haitian ambassador, raymond joseph. chad myers are you still with us? >> yes, wolf. it sounds ominous. these are heavily populated areas with happeny construction. >> it was very disturbing to hear cloud of concrete dust, and even if it's not -- even if it's just dust in general, that means that things have been shaken to a point where the earth shook in such a way that concrete structures, and pieces of other structures have disintegrated, literally, and into dust as it pancakes to the ground. to hear that i was shaken to the cory when i did hear that we have dust in the area, because that is one indication -- almost like when we talk about tornadoes. if we hear that we have insulation on the ground, we know that that insulation came out of the attics, and that's what a devastating tornado occurs, when you have dust in the air that requires a devastating earthquake, and that is what's happened. >> the sky is just gray with dust, a direct quote from this american official who's on the scene in port-au-prince right now. i think we have established contact with haiti's ambassador to the united states, mr. ambassador, raymond joseph, are you there? can you hear me? >> yes, i did hear you, and i'm am just heartbroken. i just spoke to the secretary-general to the presidency, mr. fritz longchamps. he's the only one i've been able to reach on his cell phone, and because he was on the streets, and he said he was going from port-au-prince to the area toward the east, and he had to stop his car just about half an hour ago, and take to the streets, start walking, but he said houses were crumbling on the right side of the street and the left side of the street he does not know whether he would reach his home, not knowing what he would find, because he had a bridge to cross to get there. he said it is a catastrophe of major proportions. >> we can only, only start praying. we are getting indications, mr. ambassador, that the u.s. military's southern command, if asked, by the u.s. government, the state department, for assistance, the u.s. military is ready to come in. have you been in touch -- i know it's only moments since this earthquake, 7.0 magnitude occurred, but have you been in touch with the state department? are you seeking u.s. assistance in this situation? >> definitely, but i have to tell you, since this happened about a half hour ago, i've been on the phone with different news agencies calling me, and i have not had a chance to contact my friends and colleagues at the state department with whom i was just discussing other things just yesterday. yesterday i was with the state department, and today, you know, i have to call them about this catastrophe. >> this area, you know it well, this area of the port-au-prince, the capital area, and you mentioned this other town where i guess your friend -- i don't know if i'm pronouncing it correctly. describe this area under good circumstances, how congested it is, the nature of the buildings. are they capable of withstanding an earthquake of this magnitude? >> definitely not when i went back to haiti after 13 years in 2004, i wrote a piece for then a newspaper in new york, and i said, coming from the air, what i'm seeing, the kind of buildings hanging from the sides of the hills, port-au-prince is a catastrophe waiting to happen. and we saw a bit of it recently when some buildings collapsed like school, but now to have an earthquake of that magnitude, well, i cannot tell it. i cannot tell what's going to happen. but the place is really pretty bad, and already in good times it was bad. now something like that, 7.0 magnitude earthquake i think is really a catastrophe of major proportions, as mr. fritz longchamps has said. >> and mr. ambassador, chad myers, or severe weather expert is still on the phone. he wants to ask you a few questions. chad, you heard about the 7.0, the 5.9 magnitude aftershock. can we just assumed through be a series of aftershocks which can be pretty definite stating in and of themselves? >> i think that's clear. i think the 7.0 was the shock, the main quake. there december what's called foreshocks, waiting for a largest quake about one hour or less later. it has been longer than that, so now we believe the 7.0 was the major quake and not a foreshock, thanks goodness, to a larger quake. mr. ambassador, i'm worried a bit about the quality of the buildings. tell me a little about since 2000, the quality of the buildings and inspections, and are the buildings any safer than when i visited in 2000? the newer buildings, are they better now? >> i wish i could have said something else, but i think it's as bad if for the worse. in fact, recently the government began to condemn some areas that people can no longer build in there. however, if you look at what's going on, these little flimsy houses, holding to the side of hills, port-au-prince is surrounded by hills, big valleys, and so forth. as i said before, anything that happened it was a ska tabs trophy waiting to happen. >> i want to point out, mr. ambassador, you know this well, haiti is the most densely popula populated country in the western hemisphere, one of the most densely populated countries in the world. 9 million people in one third of this island that's haiti. two thirds are the do minute scan republic. it's just a very crowded place, mr. ambassador. is that right? >> not only very crowded, but especially port-au-prince, a city that was built for about 50,000 people today house is 2 million. and the government was just in the process of doing some projects outside of port-au-prince to try to decentralize the capital. >> i'm sorry for interrupting mr. ambassador, but the epicenter we're told is only about 10, 15, 20 miles, if that, from the capital? it's very, very close? >> yes. well, the only thing i can do now is pray and hope for the best. >> i think you've got to do more than that, you've got to pray, but you also have to start making sure that the world comes to the eight of haiti. haiti is in deep trouble right now. you have 9 million people there, potential others in the caribbean area that are going to be looking for the entire world's help, especially the united states. i want you to stay with us, mr. ambassador, because chris lawrence is over at the pentagon. he's getting new indication on what the u.s. military might be able to do to come to your aid. i want to bring chris in for a moment. mr. ambassador, stick with us. >> thank you. chris, go ahead. >> officials tell us right now the united states doesn't have any troops stationed there in haiti. no troops in haiti, but sometimes the u.s. military will do some joint exercises as part of the united nations missions there, so they're checking to make sure if any u.s. troops may be attached to any sort of mission there. as? regards to helping haiti, we've been in touch with southern command, that's the part of the u.s. military in charge of that part of the world. they say not only have they been alert to do this earthquake, they say they are ready, willing and able to help if needed. that request would have to go through the state department, and then to southern command add the u.s. military. there would be precedent for this. about a year and a half, i'm sure the ambassador remembers when his country experienced some torrential rains a u.s. ship was diverted to haiti and helped deliver about 3 million pounds of international aid to the people there. they were assisted with engineering, so there's definitely a precedent clinics there, so there is precedence for the u.s. to be there to help the people of haiti to get over a natural disaster like this. >> thank you, chris. the ambassador is still with us. ambassador raymond joseph, are you there? >> i am still there. >> right now we are simulcast on cnn and cnn international, so that the entire world is watching cnn right now. this is a moment for you without going through normal diplomatic channels to make your appeal for help. what would you like to tell the state department and other foreign ministries around the world right now? >> well, what i would like to say is that haiti has been portrayed all of the time the poorest country in the western hemisphere, and now has been hit by the worst catastrophe, so i'm calling on all friends of haiti and people who are listening to me to please come to our aid, because haiti having been the first black republic in the world did help many others in the beginning to gain independence, and even helped the united states by fighting in the war of independence of the united states and by defeating the french in helping the united states get the louisiana purchase. so, we did help in the beginning. so, today as haiti is going through the worst day in its history i am calling for all others who got help from us in the beginning to help in support. >> i am sure, mr. ambassador, the u.s. government and the canadian government, and the mexican government and all of those who are listening to your appeal will come to haiti's assistance as quickly as possible. just to recap a 7.20 magnitude earthquake striking haiti about 15 miles or so from the capital of port-au-prince. mr. ambassador, stick was, as frank williams is joining us on the phone right now from world vision haiti. he is in port-au-prince. mr. williams, describe what you are seeing and hearing. >> well, thank you. it is a pretty disconcerting situation. you have got pretty much people screaming kind of all around the city of port-au-prince, and our staff, we were in the building that shook for about 35 seconds and portions of things on the building fell off, and fortunately for us, our building remains standing. and none of our staff were injured, but lots of walls are falling down. many of our staff have tried to leave, but were unsuccessful because the walls from buildings and private residences are falling into the streets, so that, it has pretty much blocked significantly most of the traffic. we have some aftershocks that we have experienced about 10 or 15 minutes after the original quake. we have an unconfirmed report that the national palace is severely damaged as well as some other government building structures. >> mr. williams, where exactly in port-au-prince are you right now? >> i'm in a sort of the part of the city above the bay called petionville, and so, we have talked to some of the people, and we have got through on one of the phone lines into the interior part of the country, and they also experienced the earthquake. but we have not been able to confirm other portions of the country. >> so your associates, your colleagues in haiti right now are reporting widespread devastation, and when i hear you say you are hearing people screaming, this is an ongoing situation? >> yes, it is an ongoing situation. i think that, you know, people are particularly, if there is another aftershock, there is a kind of wail as people are very frightened by it, but most people are out in the streets and just kind of looking up, and several, you know, lots of people are pretty, you know, not holding it together emotionally, but that is how it is on the ground. >> the ambassador to haiti from the united states is with us, mr. raymond joseph, are you there? >> yes, i am there. >> i would like for you to speak directly to mr. williams in port-au-prince, and i know you have loved one and friends in port-au-prince, mr. ambassador and you can ask him what you want, and you heard him say he is near petionville, and he is near the capital of port-au-prince, and you can go ahead to speak to mr. williams in port-au-prince. >> mr. williams? >> yes, sir. >> do you hear me? >> yes. >> i have just spoken to fritz longchamps, and he is the secretary-general, and he happened to be going up to petionville, and he told me that he had to park his car and start walking, because the buildings were collapsing on both sides of the streets. so, that is the first time i was able to speak to somebody from government other than no contact at all. are you aware of what is happ happening around the palace and so forth? >> well, we have an unconfirmed report that the palace is severely damage and the building also that the internal revenue service staff are located has been severely damaged as well. i am resisting the urge to say that people will be happy to hear that the internal revenue service building is damaged, because it is not a situation of levity, but we are hearing a lot of people pretty much wailing and out in the streets. my hope and my prayer is that, that is mostly just the kind of emotional reaction to something that many people here have never experienced, but we will be determining as quickly as we can with our resources and staff and colleague organizations how much loss of life, loss of assets and how we can use prepositioned supplies and supplies that hopefully will be coming from people who respond to this situation as quickly and as effectively as possible. >> mr. williams, hold on mr. ambassador for a moment, it is approaching 6:00 p.m. here on the east coast of the united states. mr. williams, what time is it now in port-au-prince? >> we are on eastern standard time here in port-au-prince. it is just darker here, because we are further east. >> well, i was going to -- that raises the question, is it dark already there? that is certainly going to complicate rescue operations in port-au-prince, and as i have been saying a city of 2 million people and 9 million people in the small sliver of this island called haiti. how worried are you, mr. williams, that it is getting dark now? >> i think that i'm very concerned that the darkness will not only hinder people who are of goodwill, but it will encourage people who are maybe opportunists in the circumstances like this, but we are going to have to take it an hour at a time, and respond as we can. >> mr. ambassador, when mr. williams who is with world vision haiti says that there are prepositioned supplies in and around the haitian capital of port-au-prince, what, if anything, do you know about this in terms of getting water and food and other essentials and medical equipment to people who are struggling right now? >> well, as i said before, this first time i was able to talk to an official of the government. the secretary-general, he was on the street walking. he, himself, was not able to be in contact with any official, not with the president, not with the prime minister. so, right now, i'm in no position to know how they are going to do anything. what i want to do is to get off of this phone now, and be able to try to reach either the chief of police, some of the people that i have phones i have, and see what can be done, and also to get in touch with the state department and ask them to come to our rescue right now. >> i think that the state department is hearing every word, mr. ambassador, that you are saying right now, while you are here on cnn. i will let you go hang up the phone, and we will stay in close touch with you, and needless to say, our heart goes out to all of the people of haiti, and we wish only, only the best under these awful, awful circumstances. raymond joseph is haiti's ambassador here in the united states. he has been kind enough to share some information with us. we are going to continue to check back with him. mr. ambassador, i am sure that the state department and other foreign ministries around the world have been listening to your appeals and getting other information as well, and the entire world will be coming back to try to assist haiti during this awful, awful time. we only know that people are screaming on the streets of port-au-prince, and other towns and villages in haiti right now, and we will continue to follow what is going on. i want everyone to standby with the continuing coverage of the breaking news. an earthquake of haiti resumes after this little animation. i'm wolf blitzer, and we are here in "the situation room," and we are watching an awful situation unfold in haiti where there has been a 7.0 earthquake not far, 10 or 15 miles from port-au-prince, the capital of haiti and this is a city of 2 million people and 9 million people live in haiti. it is one of the most highly populated areas in the world. this is the poorest country in the western hemisphere, and we are watching what is going on. i want to bring in john bellini who is a geophysicist at the u.s. geological survey at golden, colorado, and please tell our viewers here in the united states and around the world what we know about this earthquake. we don't know if mr. bellini can hear me. we will work to try to re-establish that connection with him. we have frank williams on the scene with us in port-au-prince from world vision haiti, but chad myers our severe weather expert is with us as well. chad, set the scene for the view ores around the world for what we know. >> 7.0 magnitude earthquake and very, very strong and not far from the surface of the earth, wolf. that is a problem. had the earthquake been 100 miles below the surface, this would not be a large quake, but because the shaking happened and the seam and the breaking happened so close to the surface, we have a lot of shaking going on. i am going to leave this map and go and move ahead and actually show you and fly through on this google map what we are talking about, how rough and how full of terrain this area is. there is our 7.0 right there. now, it does not look populated, and that is true, but ten miles away, there is port-au-prince with millions of people in here. all of the way through this area, and continuing to look at the topography here, and this is a flat area surrounded by mountains. the mountains continue all of the way from east-to-west, and actually the mountains are created by a previous earthquakes, and that is why those mountains are there in the first place, wolf. this is the populated region here in concrete structures, in structures that are not going to hold up to a lot of shaking, because they are not built to the standards that u.s. buildings would be built in california. even old standards in california are much better than the newest buildings that are built right now in haiti. wolf? >> that is the worrisome and you say 7.0 magnitude earthquake and 5.9 aftershock. chad, tell our viewers the aftershock fear and what to expect in the next hour or so. >> there has also been another 5.5 aftershock since that 5.9. what is happening with the aftershocks, and this happened in italy a lot, and remember the italian quake that we had a year ago or maybe a little less. the big quake happened and structures were damaged, significantly damaged, but not falling down. then the shocks, the 5.9 aftershock is a fairly large quake in itself. we call it an aftershock, because it is after a larger quake, but a 5.9 would do significant damage to port-au-prince all by itself. so now, all of the sudden, you have structures that have cracked and then another 5.5 and 5.9 aftershock, and the structures that have only cracked are now falling down after the secondary quakes have hit. when i heard a little bit ago you talked about how one of the eyewitnesses said that the whole city was covered in dust, that means concrete has been shattering, and concrete slabs are collapsing. that is where the dust is coming from. it is a very catastrophic situation. that is the only word i can put right now. it is dark, and people can't see where they are going, and no sunlight there. it is after 6:00, but late in the evening compared to what you might see in california looking outside where it is light. it is not light here anymore and probably a lot of power off as well. wolf. >> you know, there is one thing that i would like for you to explain, chad to, the series, and we are learning even as we go along, this earthquake of five miles, a depth of only 10 miles west of the capital of port-au-prince. when you hear it as a depth, the earthquake of five miles, what does that mean? >> it means that there was not a lot of rock or crust to cushion the quake. so, now your shaking is very close to the surface of the earth. if we were to take this, and we take it three dimensionally, and we move this quake another 100 miles below the surface, there would be, i know it is rock and dirt, but there would be cushioning, and less of a shake at the surface than compared to the violence that happened only six miles below the surface, and then that translates straight up to the surface. we talked about this earlier and people are just joining us, but two types of waves happened from earthquake. a p-wave which is a chain reaction car event where the first car is hit because somebody drove into the back car and that moved this car and that car and this car was the movement on this car was called the p-wave. then, something like taking a slinky and putting it on a table and shaking it back and forth is going to happen next. the secondary wave, the s-wave looks literally like an "s" and when the move shakes like this, the building cannot handle it. it is a quick joet and thlt, an buildings shakes back and forth, and the buildings can't handle it especially with harmonic motion, and they can't handle it at all, and they shake to the ground and slab one roof to ceiling or floor or whatever it might be and we know about the hospital that was collapsed, that is one after another, and it pancakes down right on top of the surface. that is where we lose the most people. one more question, chad, before i let you go. an analyst from the u.s. geological survey dale grant is quoted be i the associated press right now as saying that this 7.0 magnitude earthquake is the largest quake recorded in the area. he said that the last quake in this area was a magnitude 6.7, and that was back in 1984. give us a perspective of the difference between 6.7 and 7.0, and it does not sound significant, but it is. >> it is different. and the 6.7 was deeper and therefore more cushion and less shock at the surface, but the magnitude is difficult to do it. i will give you a website usgs.gov. g-o-v. it will explain how magnitude is different from richter scale. back years ago we talked about the richter scale, but this is not a richter scale number anymo anymore, because it is a magnitude 7.0, and not that it changed much in terms of the shaking, but it changes in terms of how you stack 6.7 to 6.8 which is one magnitude bigger to 6.9 and then to 7.0, so you are shaking six times more shaking between the 6.6 to the 7.0, and deeper than another. it is hard to imagine unless you have lived in california and experienced the quakes. because in the east, you and i have not experienced these day after day, but a 6.7 is significantly less powerful than a 7.0. it is a major quake. >> it is a major quake and very disturbing quake. coming in the highly populated area only ten miles from port-au-prince. wyclef john is joining us on the phone right now. he is from haiti and the recording artist, and you go there often, wyclef. tell our viewers what you are hearing from the friends in haiti right now. >> well, how are you doing, wolf? you were just on the phone with my uncle ray joseph, the ambassador to haiti. i was on the phone with someone in haiti when the quake actually took place, and the last words were i think that we were just hit with a earthquake. since then, it has been hard to get connections on the ground. i do have a television station on the ground, so i am hoping that within the next three or four hours that i can get some footage to you guys, but i wanted to get on the phone to express my concerns for the haitian people and the fact that we are going to need immediate aid, and we are going to need the united states and the international community to react immediately. this is the worst devastation that we, as haitian people, have faced. >> and wyclef, the world has to respond with emergency supplies with water, food, medical supplies, and it is going to have to respond with money as well, because you well know that this is the poorest country in the western hemisphere, and one of the poorest countries in the world, and one of the most densely populated areas, aed on the have a 7.0 magnitude earthquake hit this area, i get chills with the potential damage and destruction and loss of life. we don't know yet, but we can pray it is not as bad as i fear, but it sounds like it is going to be pretty awful. >> yeah, i mean, for everybody that is tuned in, my main concern is that port-au-prince, which is the capital is overpopulated. so we are talking about over 2 million people like my uncle said in a place designed for 50,000 people. when you are talking about a quake within what ten miles, right? >> right. >> so, we are talking about major devastation, and we are talking about a traffic of at least 20 to 30,000 people that is constantly just roaming the streets up and down. >> wyclef, hold on for a moment. chris lawrence is our correspondent over at the pentagon, and he is getting new information. chris, what are you picking up? >> well, wolf, one of the things that concerned us here is when chad mentioned earlier that there was a danger not only to haiti, but to some of the surrounding countries as well, specifically cuba. we know that there is a tremendous u.s. presence there in cuba and also where the guantanamo bay detention center is. we got off of the phone with the folks down there, and they said that they definitely felt the earthquake in cuba, but that no u.s. troops were harmed. there was no damage to any of the detention facilities where a lot of the prisoners are being held, and we are also told that the tsunami warning that had been in effect for cuba expired just about ten minutes ago. so they think they are in the clear now for the tsunami. what we are doing now is to try to make some calls to figure out exactly what u.s. navy ships may be in any sort of range of haiti, in that part of the world, to try to figure out what assets the u.s. military may have. we just heard the ambassador make that plea, that public plea for help from the united states. once that request would go through the state department, there is precedent for the u.s. military to go in to help haiti. about a year and a half ago, september 2008, haiti was ravaged by the torrential rains and mudslides and the u.s. navy diverted the "u.s.s. kearsargke from cuba to haiti and diverted international aid and they were able to use some of the medical facilities on board of the ship to treat some of the injured there, so it gives you an idea of the versatility of some of the assets that the u.s. navy has and could potentially bring into play. >> the army's u.s. 10th mountain division sent about 3,000 troops into haiti at that time. i remember going in with them at that time to cover that story during the clinton administration, and so, there is precedent of the u.s. military going in to assist in a humanitarian situation. michael holmes from cnn is over watching at the international task at the cnn center. michael, update the viewers here in the united states and around the world, and we have all of the assets here working this story. >> well, i have to tell you, wolf, i came off of my show cnn international a half hour ago and we came up here in the show and it was going crazy, because when breaking news happens like this, and this is the nerve center here, the international desk and we have roger clark here who is trying to organize crews to get down, and maybe even going tomorrow, but crews to get down the miami to get across the dominican republic to haiti and not easy, because the airport is closed and looking a bunch of options, and all of the workers are working things from the internet to the talia had the streaming version of the television from port-au-prince. we could not make much out of it. there were people talk, but we couldn't make -- let's come around here. this is streaming audio from the television station in port-au-prince, where it has been difficult. we have french speakers here, and difficult to make out precisely what they are saying, but you can tell from the tone of voice, there are distressed people there. we will listen for a second. well, we are keeping an ear on this, and nothing significant is coming from this information-wise, but it is one of the sources that gets worked here at the international desk, and i am probably in the way, because this place is going nuts to get it organized and get the french speakers in place of course to go down there to work with the crews and the logistics of getting there is difficult when you have a country with infrastructure issues after an event like this, and getting on the ground is an issue. >> well, it is a logistical nightmare for us as reporters and journalists to get n but michael holmes, you can imagine what is it like for the 9 or 10 million people who live in haiti and many more in the dominican republic who share that island with haiti, and by all accounts, people could hear the earth shake in the dominican republic as well. this is a huge, huge earthquake that we are watching right now and the devastating, the damage, tnld and the reports are just coming in of people hearing screaming and panic and shouting in the streets of port-au-prince. as it gets dark there, it is only going to complicate search and rescue operations, as you know, michael, covering these stories over the years. >> yes. one of the problem, wolf, is that you talk about a third world country and this is a country who needed help with or without an earthquake. you are talking about buildings substandard in withstanding something like this, and you are talking about an economy that is shattered. i know you talked to frank williams from world vision, but people like world vision are in and out of there all of the time. we are understanding that the u.s. military may go in to assist at some point to try to get some more information on that in a moment, but there is a lot of need for a lot of aid groups down there, and you remember only last year when they had enormous amount of rain there. the deforestation issue there. and mudslides, and this is a country suffering at the very core. something like this is the last thing it needs, wolf. >> let me re-read what this u.s. agriculture official who is-au-d the associated press, this san eyewitness, everybody is just totally freaked out and shaken. the sky is just gray with dust. he said he was walking to the hotel when the earth began to shake and i held on and bounced across the wall. i just hear a tremendous amount of noise and shouting and screaming in the distance. he says that walls have collapsed. rubble and barbed wire are all over the place right now. we are going to continue our coverage of this breaking story. we will take a quick break, resume our coverage right here in "the situation room" right after this. 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( click, click, click ) this is cnn, breaking news. we are following the breaking news out of haiti, a 7.0 earthquake about ten miles the epicenter from the capital of port-au-prince, the city of some 2 million people, and nearly 10 million people live in the small impoverished cub tri in the caribbean. we are watching what is going on and the news is not encouraging right now. we are getting a lot of reports from the eyewitnesss in port-au-prince and elsewhere in haiti of people screaming and crying out for help. we will go through in a moment. there is another breaking news story we are following right now involving google in china. i want to bring in jeanne meserve to tell us what is going on. tell us about this. >> well, i have a blog post from david drummond who is the legal officer of google. it said in mid-december that google came under sophisticated cyber attack and lost some intellectual property, but the primary goal of the attackers was to gain access of the g-mail to chinese human rights activists. they do not believe it is successful, but in the course of the investigation they found out that those activists e-mail was accessed viafi phishing scams a malware. they believe that the attacks originated in china and they want to talk to the chinese government about conducting an uncensored version of their search service in china and you know it is senscensored right n and they want to unsensor it, and if the chinese do not agree, they may have to shut down their business in china. that is big, wolf. >> and that is a major retaliation for china? >> yes, this is known as google.cn and it is the sen sord version there, and the only country who does this only to give the chinese people some access, but google is saying enough is enough, if you stage these attacks, we have to look at the possibility of shutting down completely. >> thank you, jeanne. back to the other breaking news we are following. the earthquake in haiti, a 7.0 magnitude in only about 10 or so miles from the capital of port-au-prince. david wall, dr. david wall is joining us from the u.s. geological survey in golden colorado. what is the latest that you are getting on this earthquake and the aftershocks that are coming in? >> well, as you mentioned, we have a magnitude 7.0 earthquake which is shallow and could be damaging. it occurred 4:53 local time in haiti and south of the capital in port-au-prince, so it is extremely populated, and our concern is that an earthquake this size and shallow will have extremely strong shaking, and with the population exposure so high, and the high vulnerability of the structures that are built in that area that we should have some significant casualties from the earthquake. >> we are all fearful of that. what, if anything, can you tell us about the tsunami advisory and warning for the whole coast area in the caribbean? >> well, those aftershacks there is a 5.5 and a 5.9 about 15 minutes later. as far as the tsunami goes, it was strike slip which means horizontal motion and very little uplift of the ground. typically the tsunamis are generated by the offshore earthquakes that uplift the ocean bottom, so this is not that particular type of earthquake that is typically associated with a tsunami, but that said, there could be shaking that causes landslides nearby that could induce tsunamis themselves. >> dr. wall, people said they felt the earthquake in the dominican republic which shares this island with haiti, so how far out would you expect that magnitude to be felt? >> well, we have lines on the map that shows all of the hispaniola and the dominican republic and haiti are widely felt, and also from jamaica and cuba and even in the looks like virgin islands, so it is widely felt throughout this part of the caribbean. >> and what about south florida? >> i could check quickly, but i haven't seen reports from florida at this point. >> all right. i want to bring chad myers into the conversation, dr. wall, and he is the severe weather expert, and tom forman is here as well, and they both have questions to ask you. let me start with chad. >> i want to have you explain to viewers what strike slip is and how it is different from the uplift or what we had in banda aceh where the land went down and the big part of the plate lifted up and displaced the water. disstrike how th-- describe how that strike slip works. >> well we are earn c-- well, w are always concerned about the strike slip which is movement of land. the tsunamis in indonesia went near -- [ inaudible ] -- -- to the coast. that uplift of the coast caused a tsunami, so again, here is a horizontal motion, and the main story here is not the tsunami, but shaking. it is proximal to the population of port-au-prince, and the strong shaking and the vulnerable structures will lead to the destruction and not a tsunami. >> okay. go ahead, tom forman, i know you have a question for dr. david wall as well. >> when you talk about a slip quake, the damage is extensive either way you look at it, right? whether it is and upward heaving of the ground or sideways and buildings particularly in a poor area like this tend to suffer to a tremendous degree anyway. >> well, that is exactly right. the source, the trouble with the strike slip fault is that it can be close to a population and particularly the thrust faults that cause tsunamis are deeper offshore and away from the population, so this can be close to the population, which means that the shaking is stronger to the fault if you are proximal to the fault. we fear that is the case here. it is only about ten miles south of the main population center, and it is a densely populated area to start with near the fault. >> we are told, dr. wall, that this quake was felt at the u.s. naval base at guantanamo bay in cuba, which is as you know in the western part of cuba. this should not be a surprise, should it? >> no, that is right. i see that report online as well as jamaica which is slightly further to the west. so, that is a very wide area, and several hundred miles felt in the area, and of course, as you get closer to the epicenter and particularly in southwestern haiti, the shaking level that would be experienced would go up higher and higher and higher and in the capital area, extremely strong shaking. >> we are told from a spokesman at the guantanamo bay base, that there were no injuries to the troops or the detainees, but they felt it on the western part of cuba where gitmo is based there as well. i know you have another question for dr. wall, chad. >> well, we talked about the s-wave and the side to side motion and how it can be devastating to the buildings who don't have a lot of support and certainly not made to the california regulations. would a strike slip cause more of the s-wave or would the thrust cause more of that kind of damage? >> well, in general, the strike slip would cause slightly more, but the real issue is how close you are to the fault n. this case, very strong horizontal motion, and as you mentioned with the structures, while they are meant to withstand strong forces vertically, when you shake them horizontally, they have little resistance and the weight of the roof will bring the structure down, so that is the main concern in this particular area. there are probably dominant construction practice here is unreinforced concrete blocks or brick type constructions, and those, if they are unreinforced as they are in for instance in california they are reinforced, but if they are on concrete blocks, thatthey will tend to collapse quickly. >> i don't know if you have to rush off dr. wall, but we are getting a statement in from president obama. dan lothian is over at the white house. dan, the president is now weighing in. >> that is right. the white house is right on top of the situation going on in haiti and the president putting out a statement saying that my thoughts and prayers go out to those who are affected by this earthquake. we are closely monitoring the situation, and we stand ready to assist the people of haiti. now, a little background information here from the white house aides, the president found out about the situation in haiti and informed and he asked that all staff members make sure that the embassy staff were okay and make sure that any humanitarian assistance that needed to go to them would be coordinate and top aides saying that the state department and u.s. aid and southern command are beginning to work to assess the situation there, and to figure out whether or not any assistance will be given there, and the white house is of course on top of the situation and the president monitoring frit here ining it . >> and we heard the haitian ambassador appeal to not only the u.s. state department and the entire u.s. government, but to governments all over the world for assistance right now. that was the ambassador raymond joseph. "the miami herald" reporter jackie charles is joining us right now on the phone. she spent a lot of time in haiti. jackie, what are you hearing from folks in haiti right now? >> well, we are still trying to get through, because all of the communications are down, but i did recently speak to the council general who spoke to the first lady who said that part of the palace which is the equivalent of our white house has collapsed, and the president is safe, but they are trying to get to a safe place. i spoke to a source who was on the telephone with his wife about two hours ago as the earthquake was taking place, and she spoke about how the house is crumbling, and the mountains are also crumbling, so at this point, we trying to get additional information about the casualties and the extensive damage. >> does "the miami herald" have anyone there? >> well, we have people en route, but because the communications are down, we cannot get through to anyone at this moment. >> that is the problem. the communications are really, really hard and almost impossible to establish communications with a lot of folks in the port-au-prince right now and it is dark in haiti right now. it is 6:30 on the east coast, and 6:30 in port-au-prince in haiti as well. this is a very very tenuous situation. for viewers just tuning in, a 7.0 magnitude earthquake has hit haiti a couple of hours or so ago, and there are two aftershocks, a 5.9 and a 5.5. this is a very, very densely populated area. the epicenter is only ten miles or so from the capital of port-au-prince. haiti is reaching out to the world right now for assistance. the u.s. government, you just heard dan lothian reporting from the white house that president obama saying that the united states stands ready to assist the people of haiti in this crisis situation. deb fayerick has just joined us who has been speaking to folks at the red cross. deb, what are they telling you? >> well, the folks at the red cross are telling us that they are trying to get in touch with their people on the ground, and they have three people in the port-au-prince area and cannot get in touch with them, and think are trying to land lines and i asked about cell phone, but they are looking into that right now. they are ready to open up panama's warehouse which has a lot of supplies and cots and cooking supplies and basic items that could help sol of the folks to get back on track. also, they have released $200,000 in support of the relief effort that is likely to come. i have been trying to reach people there on the ground, also, unsuccessfully trying to get in touch with them as you have been mentioning that haiti is the poorest country in the western hemisphere, and keep in mind that millions live in the ramshackle slums and menial conditions there on the hillsides. if you remember two years ago there was a school that clamsed and there was a building review which led to citing lax guidelines and folks are ignoring the building guidelines, so that could play a big role in the extent of the devastation, wolf. >> deborah feyerick, standby. i want you to keep in touch with folks at the red cross, and other humanitarian agencies, because haiti will need a lot of support right now in the aftermath of the earthquake. dan rogers is joining us now on the phone from haiti. it is ian rogers, excuse me. you are from save the children. are you in port-au-prince right now? >> that is correct. i am in port-au-prince. >> so walk us through what you have seen and heard over the past hour or two as word of this, as you felt this powerful, this very powerful earthquake. >> i tell you, yes, all right. we happened to be in the office at the time when the earthquake happened. it was significant, and shook our office which is a large concrete building which is two the three stories high. of course, our immediate reaction was to get into the doorways. as soon as it left, we had to evacuate all of the staff. thankfully, none of our staff have been injured in the office, however, our compound is probably built better than most structures in this area. around our compound multistory houses have fallen down and slid down hills and mudslides, and all of the roads at the moment are blocked because a lot of the port-au-prince is built on a mountainside, and so retaining walls and earth has gone over the roads. unfortunately now, it is dark. >> so, you can only imagine what is going on. do you have any initial reports of casualties or deaths and injuries, mr. rogers? >> no, unfortunately, we haven't been able to get any information per se. we have been in contact with our staff who had left, some staff had left for the day, and we are trying to gather information now. staff has tried to leave the compound had to return. there was another subsequent aftershock which was significant, and it is bringing down extra earth and landslides on to the road. so it is unsafe to move at this moment in time. what i can hear is very disstressed people all around in the neighborhoods that we are in. there is a lot of distress and wailing of people trying to find the loved ones who are trapped under building and rubble. >> so, you are basically hearing a lot of screaming and wailing. under normal circumstances in port-au-prince, and i have been there, the emergency rescue operations, hospitals, it is all very, very -- i guess third world is a positive description. it is not good even under normal circumstances. i can only imagine, mr. rogers, what is going through right now. >> that is correct. i mean, obviously, the haitian authorities will be trying to respond the best they can, but all power seems to be out in port-au-prince, and it is obviously dark at the moment. there are some houses lit up that are obviously using their own generator. we, ourselves, as a compound have a generator. of course, we can't enter our office, because now there is significant amount of water that has filled in the office, and we are unsure whether or not there is live cables and sort of broken in the office. but, yeah, ki only imagine that the response is going to be very difficult for the haitian authorities and obviously, there is a u.n. presence, and they will obviously try to respond as quickly as possible, but unfortunately, it is now the reality is that it is dark, and haiti does face security issues so it is going to be difficult to try to do any assessments and see what happens until daylight. >> this is a tenuous time, and it is now dark, and night in haiti right now, and power is off. there are 9 or 10 million people in haiti who are endanger even as we speak. ian rogers from save the children. if you could stay put for the moment, michael holmes is at the cn center in atlanta, and he is working the story for us together with all of the cnn sources, and update the viewers, michael, in the united states and around the world, and the new information that is coming into cnn. >> yes, i will give you a bit of an interview in a moment with somebody who is haitian, and i am going to get to that in a second, but -- [ inaudible ]. >> i think that we have an audio issue with the microphone over there, and i want to clear it up, because there is a lot of interference coming in. can you hear me okay? no, unfortunately, we can't hear you. we will fix the audio, and michael, standby for one moment, because chad myers our severe weather expert is with us as well. chad, just for those viewers who are tuning in right now here in the u.s., in the western hemisphere around the world, we are watching an earthquake, and the reaction to this earthquake is pretty heartbreaking when you think about what's happening in the streets of port-au-prince and elsewhere in haiti right now. >> let me set the scene a little bit, because we are not talking about building standards that we are talking about in california, but we are talking about uninforced sinlder blo cinder b think about that with mortar on top, that is what we are talking about. in the southwest to port-au-prince, i am looking in this direction right here to where the earthquake happened which is about ten miles here. i want to flatten it out a little bit, because we were talking about the topography. can you see the mountains here? the mountains, because they were caused by the earthquake a long, long time ago, because of the collisions here, but also, they are part of the shaking process that has gone on today. i know this could be a very difficult map to see, and i will try to point out what i can. haiti right here, and port-au-prince right there, only ten miles from the big capital. this is from usgs.gov. you can go to see this for yourself. and ten for extreme shaking which is 3k, so 3,000 people felt extreme shaking and casualties at about 50%. then violent shaking, 1.849 million people felt violent shaking. another 1 million felt severe shaking and another 500,000 felt strong shaking. this is something we will be talking about and i am sure we will be here all night long, because this is a devastating people for the people of haiti and the people around this town, because what we had for a while tsunami watches, and i was not so worrieded about the tsunamis with this, because for two reasons, it was not a tsunami-type earthquake. those happen when you get the crust of the earth like this butting up against another piece of crust here, and as it goes down through a subduction zone, this piece bends a little bit and pops up. when that area, when that part of the crust pops up, that is what pushes this, all of this water up and causes the wave. this is not quite that. this is a slip strike which means that part of the earth is going that way and part of the earth going that way and it slips a lot like what we have in california. the slipping causes two types of waves an s-wave and p-wave, and after the break, we will talk about how those can affect the people of haiti. wolf? >> thank you, chad. standby and we will get right back to you. we will go back to port-au-prin port-au-prince, and we are getting new details, but an american airlines flight, the last of the day scheduled to leave port-au-prince for the united states and new information just coming in about the nearly 200 passengers about to take off, and this plane was not able to take off. standby and we will take a quick break and continue the coverage of the breaking news and an earthquake strikes haiti when we come back. host: could switching to geico 15% or more on car insurance? host: does charlie daniels play a mean fiddle? ♪ fiddle music charlie:hat's how you do it son. vo: geico. 15 minutes could save you 15% or more on car insurance. upbeat rock. ♪ singer: hello hello hello can anybody hear me? ♪ ♪ i know i know i know i shoulda gone to ♪ ♪ free credit report dot com! ♪ that's whp$e i shoulda gone! coulda got my knowledge on! ♪ ♪ vo: free credit score and report with enrollment in triple advantage. this 1 a 7.0 earthquake in haiti causing extensive damage. we don't know casualties. we don't know deaths. we don't know injuries. a lot we don't know. it is dark in haiti right now. we do know there has already been a series of aftershocks. ian rogers is on the phone was, joining us from port-au-prince and he is from save the children. i take it, ian, you have felt another aftershock? >> yeah. there is just probably three or four minutes ago, there was another aftershock. it was not as large as what we have had, but obviously, the concern is that with any aftershock that anything that is tenuously hanging on as a building is dangerous. the situation is dire and dangerous for the population. anybody in a building or trying to do rescue at the moment must be difficult, because it is very, very dark. >> the earthquake was measured at 7.0, and the first aftershock was 5.9 and the second one was 5.5, and this one may have been less. are you still hearing the wailing and the cries of folks from port-au-prince? >> yes, i am. just from outside of where our office compound is, there are clearly people that are under a great deal of distress and trying to work out what to do. as you can imagine, it being dark, getting afterquakes and having people trapped, people are in a great deal of stress. all of the roads currently are blocked. we are trying at the moment, the only vehicle that we think that we will be able to get through anywhere is by motorcycle, so we are just preparing those vehicles, because currently, that is the only thing that can make it through, and otherwise it is too dangerous with the slipping mountainsides. >> ian rogers, from save the children, i just got more important indication that you were already doing great work, but now you will have a tremendous amount of work with this earthquake. deb fayerick is joining us. deb, that airline flight that was scheduled to leave from port-au-prince to the united states, what are you being told? >> well, wolf, we are told that there was a miami-bound flight and people were boarding the plane when the earthquake hit, but right now they are trying to assess whether or not the runways are operational. it was to be the last international flight out. an analyst with the agency that monitors these quakes says that there is likely to be substantial damage and casualties, because there already have been several aftershocks. also monitoring the wires we see that the consul-general is frantically trying to get in touch with his ministry, and he says he cannot get in touch with him, and he says it is quote, unquote mind boggling. everyone is trying to figure out what is going on, on the ground, andt is very upsetting to folks who have family there, and need to know what is going on. >> well, the process of whether activities are operational or not. >> well, that is going to hamper help getting in, because clearly the flow of people in and out of the country, they will have to find other ways to get there. >> nearly 200 people on the american airlines flight to leave, but it has not left port-au-prince. deborah feyerick, standby. michael holmes is over at the cnn center, and he is monitoring coverage of all of the this. what is the latest information coming in, michael? >> well, wolf, you have all of the latest stuff, but this is a sense of what we are doing here. there is the international desk and the engine room of our coverage when a story like this breaks. most of the people are due to go home, but they are staying here now trying to get the crews together and trying to get cnn's coverage on the ground there. we are talking about different ways of getting into haiti through the dominican republic and a lot of options on the table. we have meeting going on behind us with the director of operations there. i am going to move out of the way, but james follow me, because there is a lot of i-reports coming in, and we will inform you of those when we get them. in the meantime, wolf, jean francois is a cnn international producer born in haiti, and you have family there, so tell us what you are hearing? >> absolutely. i am thankful that my mother is okay, because she is in new york with our family, but i spoke with a family member who said she was at a government building and the building began to shashgs and she saw a lot of devastation around saw a lot of around her. actually saw dead bodies and blood actually splat tered on her, but she was unharmed. she was traveling back, making her way to the home, doesn't know whether there's been any kind of damage to the home, but she did say that it's very devastating. i also spoke to someone who is a friend of mine who is closer to where the capital building is, and he said a number of the old buildings, a number of the infrastructure has been completely decimated and that it's a very dire situation. >> it is a depressed country. >> as everyone knows, heyty is a poor country, and this will compound the problems the country has been experiencing. earlier i heard there is a potential for tsunami waves. i don't know if that is still current information, but if that happens, we can all remember what happened in indonesia. for haiti, that would be more devastating. >> i think the chief risk for that is past. but you're being told firsthand. the person you spoke to on the phone actually saw bodies as well? >> two people i spoke to saw bodies. these are people very close to me, one a family member. and i'm very familiar with haiti. i was born there, i grew up principally in new york, but i go there often and i can tell you this is really going to be very devastating for the country and port-au-prince, the city in particular. >> what were you told in secondhand sense, if you like, about the moment it struck? >> the person i spoke to was in complete shock. i mean, you're standing in a building. the next thing you know, it's shaking, and obviously the initial shock of it and realizing what's happening. and to actually have blood splattered on you, i can't even imagine what that experience must be. she said blood splattered on me, and i'm okay, but still trying to see whether i'm okay. so it's obviously a personal story for me as well. like i said, so far from the contacts i've made, my immediate family, from what i know, is fine, but i'm sure this is something that will impact me in some measure through friends or associates who i know that live and work in haiti. >> we'll try to get you down there, too. jean francois, our producer. we're trying to get down there in a professional and personal sense as well. everyone here trying to work the phones to get the rest of our crews mobilized. i just heard one of our crews in miami already packing gear trying to get in through the dm dominican republic. i'm going to try some other ways, too. how is it looking in terms of pulling it all together? >> it's coming together. it's a bit of a slow process because i think you've been talking to jean about the situation in haiti itself, and just getting in there is really tough at the moment. we're looking now at flights to the dominican republic, and we're also looking at flights to possibly port-au-prince, but we don't know whether that airport is open. >> i'll let you get back to work. there is the latest from the international. they've got our finger on it here, i can tell you. >> everybody is going to be working overtime on this, as they should. this is a huge story. michael holmes, stand by. we are also learning right now that the tsunami watch, the good news has been canceled. chad meyers, explain what we are hearing about the tsunami watch. >> except for puerto rico and the virgin islands, a tsunami watch is done for the rest of the caribbean. they did feel and experience in santa domingo in the dominican republic, a 12-centimetre tsunami unless that gets into a bay, like crescent city, california, where 12 centimetres out by the reef can actually be a couple feet inland. if you have a one-foot tsunami, that certainly doesn't do anything by the shore. not very big at all. >> a little bit of a silver lining there, but a lot of devastating news. also just coming in right now, we hear -- we're hearing a lot of reports of people screaming and crying out for assistance as night falls in port-au-prince and elsewhere in haiti. tom foreman is watching what's going on. what do you have, tom? >> what we're really missing is quality information of what's happening at the heart of it. this area out here is believed to have had, over the past 500 dwreer years, about a dozen earthquakes of this magnitude. in 1975, claimed about 9,000 lives. one here in san salvador in 1986, about 800 lives. thousands of people left homeless. here in panama, relief possibly coming into haiti and jamaica over here. let's talk about what we do know about the strike area and how that potentially effects everyone. we know it hit here, about 14 miles from port-au-prince proper. we hear that the palace is damaged. the airport is just up to the north here, you move down south here and you get to the palace itself. we've heard a lot of reports that this area is damaged. we've also heard reports about an area that people call pich pichon vi is right out here. this is an area where many people who work with the u.n., diplomats or foreign visitors may live or stay while they're here. so that gives us a sense. right here is pichon vi, here is the damage, and presumably you also have damage all through here. i want to move in and show you the density here, wolf. but i want you to look at the density of the housing here. this is a country of 8.5, 9 million people, anyone 70 to 80% whom live below the poverty level to begin with. so many of these homes are going to be of very weak construction, a lot of people packed in, plus more than 50% of the country lives in urban areas even though it's largely agricultural in terms of their income. as i pointed out, there is not much income, so you have a tremendous number of people living in very poor conditions, very packed together, sometimes much more than in other areas. that's what we're going to be looking at, and i'll assure you, wolf, some of the poorest areas of town is what you're going to be looking at most for damage because that's where you'll have the most people in the smallest buildings least able to stand up to all of this, wolf. we'll have to see as it adds up here what all we're talking about. the palace over in this area, the hospital in the downtown area but there's another one here in pichon vi. >> that hospital not going to be enough to deal with this crisis that's unfolding. the last estimate of the population of haiti was almost 10 million people, 9,780,054, so many of them living in adjunct poverty and poverty as well. we have a resident of port-au-prince on the phone. i believe your name was linda. is that right, linda? linda, can you hear me? we had linda. unfortunately, the communications, as you can tell, is very difficult to establish communications with folks in port-au-prince or elsewhere in haiti right now. it's an awful situation. earlier i spoke with haiti's ambassador to the united states here in washington, raymond joseph. this is what he told me about his conversations with officials back in port-au-prince. >> i am just heartbroken because i just spoke to the secretary general to the presidency, mr. fritz longchau. he is the only one i was able to reach by cell phone because he was on the street, and he said he was going from port-au-prince to the pichon area. that's toward the east. he had to stop his car just about half an hour ago and take to the street and start walking, but he says houses were crumbling on the right side of the street and the left side of the street. and he does not know whether he would reach his home, not knowing what he would find. because he had a bridge to cross to get there. he said it is a catastrophe of major proportions. >> heartbreaking situation unfolding in the streelts of port-au-prince, that entire country spreading out to neighboring dominican republic. they share this island in the caribbean. the president of the united states, president obama, issued a statement just a little while ago saying, my thoughts and prayers go out to those who have been affected by this earthquake. we are closely monitoring the situation and we stand ready to assist the people of haiti, the u.s. government getting ready to come to assistance as quickly as possible. the u.s. military's sudden command is on the situation right now. they are working to coordinate with u.s. aid, emergency assistance to the people of haiti. they will need assistance under the best of circumstances. haiti is the