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thing. look at tamir rice in ohio, child killed holding an airgun. if you don't believe it's real -- so you, how do you not believe there's a racial connotation? >> i believe you apply it. it's applied to catholics, christians. it's applied to capitalists. it's applied to conservatives. >> laura: gentlemen, i think one thing that's difficult for people to get, though, is what do you do about it? so you have training to get yourself to think okay, think differently. when you say training, what does that mean? people go off and think all sorts of things. >> you grow out of it. >> laura: and then you have friends who are from different walks of life. i don't know. i think this idea of training people, it seems, it just seems weird. >> it seems rather childish. >> i get that. the training word. it's conversation. we need to be able to have uncomfortable conversations.