later. >> are you worried about the russians hacking us? >> no, i'm not worried at all. >> russian espionage on the streets of new york city. i take the post of the people in street justice. and even find a little love. >> you're getting married? why question it. >> when you fall in love, what you do? >> you run. justice starts now i will speak with press secretary spicer. first, my opening statement. politics get get in the way a lot. sometimes, even in the way of dying kids. i wanted to start tonight with all the enthusiasm of the first
children's foundation. permit a few differences. eric trump was not penniless or in debt when he started the eric trump foundation. he did not start that foundation to make money, and he certainly did not become rich because of it. here is what his own wife told me in florida. >> he started the eric trump foundation to help kids with cancer. in fact, he such a humble guy, i didn't i didn't even know about it. he started at the year before we met and it was almost like he didn't want to toot his own horn to say look what i did. >> on the show, i remember him saying that 100% of the proceeds go to the kids. >> it's very important to eric. this is something he has always worked so hard for. he works his hardest at the eric trump foundation, and i have seen him negotiate pennies off
accomplishments like the intensive care unit at st. jude's opened in february 2015 before his dad was ever a candidate for anything. all the monies raised, almost 100%, given to the charity for the foundation. millions, almost 20 million operated with one employee. eric shouldering operating costs himself. so this past christmas eve, those children not dreaming of toys or sugarplum fairies, but the ones praying there next chemo or lead transfusion wouldn't hurt so much. some even praying that death wouldn't visit their rooms that night, hoping maybe, just maybe, an angel would come with a gift. not a gift of toys, but the gift
of life all because of a young man named eric. they lost that night. yes, it was the unluckiest of them all who suffered that night because a young man who did nothing but good for all the right reasons could not continue to do good, because evil was assumed to be the norm as scrooge and the ghost of the clintons past visited the eric trump foundation and the children who benefited. that is my (tell me what you think of my facebook page or twitter. hashtag judge janine. joining me me now by phone, president-elect trump son, and executive director of the trump organization and founder of the eric trump foundation, eric trump aired this is his first television interview since
expense ratio for charities in the world. we are so fortunate. it's one of the great benefits or perks of having a great organization with great assets that you can use practically for free. we raised so much money for st. jude's. the second someone is elected into public office, you're you're no longer given the benefit of the doubt. no matter how good your track record was or how much great you've done, you're no longer given the elephant of the doubt and sadly, at the the end of the day, the only people who lose as you said so wellin your opening, the only people who lose are some of the sickest kids in the world and those are the kids at saint jude. jeanine: the new york times originally question how much you gave and said there wasn't any evidence to support it and just yesterday, apparently they seem to indicate that clearly you had given well over $16 million.
was there any satisfaction from that. >> i thought it was very nice that they came around and actually admitted how much they donated to the hospital and they said very nice things which was very vindicating. i think there are some people who have said nasty things over the years and that's the political world that we as a family now live in. it's the reality. there will be people who go out and make statements to sensationalize whatever they can and sell newspapers and we will deal with that for the next four or eight years. jeanine: but you know, eric, that must frustrate you because you're not in office, you're not, you're not in the government. we haven't seen you pretty much of since the election because you and your brother that we saw so often are now back in the business. your father is getting ready to run the business of the country, and he has been, actually, since he was elected. does this frustrate you?
>> yes it's frustrating and it's a narrative they will try to keep up for the next four or eight years and it will be a narrative of harassment. sadly again, it's too long. it's millions and millions of dollars going to the best pediatric research hospital anywhere in the world and that's sad. that is the game that gets played with politics. even if you said there is something to do with the administration, it will be the quagmire that we as a family live in for a long period of time. >> did you expect it would be this difficult, eric? >> it's been amazing. when i see my father save jobs all over the place, when you see what happened with ford. jeanine: but for you personally eric. >> i think we all knew when he
jeanine: america is were ready to welcome a new president in less than two weeks, but not everybody's onboard. in fact, some, some people on the left are doing their best to subvert democracy and the american way by encouraging people to not even give the incoming president a chance to lead. the chance that he earned, fair and square, back in november. here is left-wing movie director michael moore right after the election talking about what he and his followers are going to be doing in the days up to and beyond the inauguration while donald trump is working tirelessly to fix the country. >> we are going to resist, we were going to oppose pratt this will be a massive resistance. there is already, women are calling for 1 million women march. jeanine: okay so it's indicative of a movement on the left to delegitimize the new president. joining me now to talk about that and more is white house press secretary sean slicer. jeanine: it was really an emotional piece.
his foundation that he is forced to separate himself from from because nothing that he has done, he's not even in the government, but because of the behavior, i believe the clintons and all of the attacks on that foundation that i believe were legitimate, but now we have people saying, let's stop president trump before he even gets there. the man hasn't stopped working. how are you going to convince these people that donald trump was elected fair and square and let's give the man a chance. >> there's a couple things, judge. first, it is sad that eric trump worked so hard for st. jude's because the only people who lose are those children are the children of st. jude. it is sad because the losers are the people they worked so hard
to help. getting to your question, look, on november 8, donald trump 130 straight trump 130 states. nine of 13 battleground states, over 2600 counties and flipped counties that barack obama carried in 2012. i'm not sure how much more resounding of a win win you can get. the movement that he led spoke loud and clearly on election day more portly, to your point, since he took that stage at 2:50 am and talked about uniting all americans, he has worked tirelessly, not only to put together probably the most amazing cabinet ever seen, but to get results whether it's carrier or sprint and talking about thousands of jobs that he is personally working to bring back to this country, or saving the american taxpayers millions and billions of dollars through his work to lower the cost of on of air force one.
a guy who is still 13 days from office still has a track record as president elect that most would like to have as president. jeanine: but sean, the positive that the president-elect can talk about are clear. i think that most people are blown away by the fact that the man is even working 247, but more importantly, it's not just democrat or progressive or left, it's almost anarchist or communist, revolutionary communists taking out ads thing we've got to stop this man. is there concern for the inauguration? they're talking about protest, do whatever they can to stop donald trump. >> look, i think more more of these individuals are finding themselves in the minority. there will be a historic record of people because the movement
that donald trump has led is a movement of change, a movement that finally taps into the frustration that so many american workers are finally saying thank you for in understanding what i've been saying for so long and been so forgotten. i think that inauguration is going to be a historic one in that it won't just be an amazing day, but it will be the beginning of an amazing eight years for donald trump. at some point the facts will become overwhelming because the number of successes he has both domestically and internationally. at some point, you have to say wow, he has saved the job of a friend or family member. he has lifted up the wages, my healthcare has gone down and i can see the doctor i talked about. i have more educational choices. the inner cities are better. the roads and bridges and infrastructure are getting repaired the way they should of. jeanine: democrats, right now, are being so obstructionist that they're saying we've got all of these ethical hurdles, before we
even get to the confirmation hearing spread i've never heard of these ethical procedures or hurdles that they have to overcome first. have you? >> no, you didn't didn't hear about him in 2008 when she chuck schumer voted 42 times to look the other way on democrats that will weren't seeking appointment in the obama administration. you didn't see them when the republicans voted seven of those nominees their confirmation votes on day one and five more the next time and 13 by voice well. republicans acted professionally and responsibly in 2008 and recognize that the president has an opportunity to have the people that are qualified to be in the cabinet. donald trump, as president elect has selected the most qualified cabinet in modern history, if not ever. i think they're getting split by schumer because he's trying to play a political game, but most
democrats recognize that the movement wasn't just about republicans but it was about democrats and independents and many of their own constituents. you take a state like missouri where president electra carried it by 19 points but i don't think claire mccaskill is going to want to vote against that kind of overwhelming message when it comes to confirmation pics. not only are they qualified but she has to recognize that she has the answer to her constituents if she doesn't understand the change they voted for in missouri and other states around the country. jeanine: donald trump has an opportunity to continue to change the landscape of those elections going forward. sean, thanks so much for being with us. >> thank you. jeanine: i'm joined by someone calling for protest against president-elect trump. this is a debate you are not going to want to miss. then the congressman is here to talk about the incoming administration as well as his home state of california and their curious move involving attorney general eric holder. >> are you worried about the
russians hacking us? >> no i'm not worried at all. >> i asked america about the russia hacking hearing. street justice is still ahead and it ends with a big surprise as justice rolls on on health probiotic caps daily... ...with three types of good bacteria. 400 likes? wow! phillips. be good to your gut. i need to promote my new busi can make that happen.et. business cards? business cards, brochures, banners... pens? pens, magnets, luggage tags, bumper stickers. how about foam fingers? like these? now, get 15% off making your company stand out. staples. make more happen. i mess around in the garage. i want to pay more to file my taxes. i want my tax software to charge me at the last second. paying $60 to file my taxes was the highlight of my day. and you just saw footage of me flipping burgers. want to charge me extra to itemize my deductions? no problem. i literally have too much money.
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countdown to inauguration day is still on, but some still refuse to accept the reality. my next guest is one of many attempting to delegitimize trump's presidency before it even begins. at the national spokesperson for the communist party in the united states. he joined me now. carl thanks for being on tonight. i was fascinated like many, with the ad in the new york times that said something like know in the name of humanity, we refuse to accept a fascist america. i'm not wondering the read the whole thing but it pretty much says we have to stop the trump pens regime before it starts. we don't have a lot of time so i asked some direct questions. call, how are you going to stop the trump hands regime.
he was elected fair and square. the electoral college has been certified. were getting ready to roll. what are you going to do to stop them. >> look, no election, fair or foul should legitimize a fascist regime, and that is what the trump pants regime is. donald trump campaigned as a fascist, he has assembled a team to carry out that fascist agenda, we've seen this before. the demon nation. he spent the christmas holidays, a time that supposed to be peace on earth and will toward men talked tweeting about a new nuclear arms race. this is what he campaigned on, this is --. jeanine: what about, you want to talk about delegitimizing. i have to be honest, donald trump is something i believe in. let me just say this. aren't you delegitimizing the election in the constitution because you don't like the guy. >> i don't like the guy, but what i don't like like is the agenda he campaigned on.
jeanine: but he won. >> host: but that's what millions and millions of people don't like and they are right not to like it. we have seen this before. hitler came to power through legitimate means. jeanine: you're not comparing donald trump to hitler are you. >> right, he's different than hitler. he doesn't have that little black mustache, he has the orange squirrel on his head, but he has the agenda of a hitler. jeanine: carl -- >> we have to talk about the fascist quality of this regime. jeanine: why don't they have anxiety and fear before donald trump and he hasn't done anything. where is the ink anxiety and fear. >> it's based upon what he campaigned on. muslim registry. people who burn the flag should have citizenship taken away.
this is illegitimate, and it also will be a form of rule that suppresses the civil liberty to fight against these. people have a right to be fearful and that is why we took out this ad and why we are calling on people. refuse fascism.org is calling on people to take to the streets, to display and manifest their refusal to accept -- jeanine: let's assume they do. what if people come into the streets and do what. >> come to the streets in washington d.c. where i will be and everywhere else and do everything to show their refusal to accept this regime. nonviolent civil disobedience. protesting in other ways. candlelight vigils. however people want to do it but business as usual in this society has got to be stopped to prevent the trump pence regime.
jeanine: are you an anarchist or a communist. >> it's real clear. i told you i was a communist and i will come and talk too about communism. bring me on another show. jeanine: okay, alright. i wish we had more time. i will bring you on again. >> tonight i want to talk about stomping this fascist regime. jeanine: i'm worried about how far you're willing to go. >> refuse fascism.org. jeanine: thank you. darrell darrell issa still ahead >> my friend is getting engaged today. >> that's so sweet. why would anyone get married but i want to serve justice on russian hacking. at judge justice like you've never seen.
justice is rolling on. ♪
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jackie vonya senior. a deadly explosion a row along the syrian turkish border claims nearly 50 lives injuring 100 others. there has been no claim of responsibility but local leaders are joining isis for the blast at this point it is a fuel truck parked in front of the busy area was rigged to explode. the town opposition buyers to move between syria and turkey. meeting in easter muzzle to discuss progress in taking the second-largest city from isis. the army defensive is in his 12th week in gaining momentum. iraqi forces are getting back to u.s. led coalition's iraqi forces cleared of several neighborhoods in eastern mosul over the past week. isis has held mosul from within two years. i am jackie yvonne yes and now back "justice with judge jeanine." jeanine: as busy as we close in
on just 12 days until the inauguration of our 45th president. joining me now is my political panel are old friends chairman republican strategist david allen and making his debut tonight democratic strategist and former consultant to the department of homeland security. thanks for joining us a gentleman. i want to start with the russian hacking issue and i will start with you david on the issue of whether or not their russian hacking issue is one that has given president-elect donald trump's decision to say you know there was some russian influence over the hacking. did he make a turnaround on this and was it enough? >> judge, america and did need vladimir putin to know that hillary clinton was corrupt and lying and believed she was above the law.
it didn't ultimately impact the election just as in 1960 nikita khrushchev believed he influenced the election when he held you too pilots against his power and wouldn't release him. he believed that hurt nixon. he didn't hurt nixon's chances of getting elected and putin didn't hurt quentin's chances of getting elected. it's a lot about nothing. jeanine: hasn't everybody been spying on everybody for decades? isn't this what looks to read about all of a sudden we are so shocked? >> judge, you are right. we been spying on them and they been spying on us and this is done all the time but to actually weapon eyes the information, to put it out there to change the election results, to actually create fake news to hack into the system. jeanine: i have to stop you. there is nothing in those
e-mails that was never contested c it's not just the e-mails that they put out. actually have russian tv which is television it networks that claimed the united states created neck a chamber to put fakeness information as well as e-mails. election staff. they talked about that the elections are rigged. they kept on putting information out there. that is a documented fact from both the fbi, the nsa and the cia who put out a detailed report. judge, let me jump in here second. jeanine: there's no discussion of any election machines or any numbers being impacted. c absolutely. >> a bigger impact here for want to talk about how a hack impacted the election although the opm records that got taken
by some foreign government is now hundreds of thousands of government employees now have all of their records out there. we had a series of breaches of government servers that release personal data on people. the if it came to a point where americans to just started questioning was their personal safety secured and did this administration do enough and ultimately they decided no. they decided their economic security in their personal security were being taken care by this administration and that's why they said it's time to go in a different direction. >> look a bit at some point we are going to have to start putting our country head of our party. someone hacking into e-mails and releasing information, someone coming into our country to undermine our elections? we have crossed the line. >> had hillary clinton not have a server.
>> president-elect donald trump, i will even say he's got a chance but the fact that the russians came in packs into our system and try to undermine elections, he's got to admit to that and you have to admit that and we have got to go on and start making them pay a price for that. jeanine: mustafa, didn't hillary clinton choose putin -- accuse putin of doing something like that and i hear he was giving even with her. david from are you familiar with that? >> vaguely. jeanine: go ahead. >> judge, look putin basically had a vendetta against her because she tried to expose him. she went to the u.n. and made a speech exposing the fact that he was rigging the election so she did her job as secretary of state showing the fact that putin was doing all sorts of underhanded things in terms of breaking their elections. he took it personal offense to
it. he then came into the united states to undermine our elections not only to spy on us but to basically create a news channel in our country to use social media. c what voting machines at rates that impacted the results? what voting machine got rates that truly -- jeanine: thank you for being with us. street justice still ahead and congressman darryl issa, next. something wrong? so when it comes to pain relievers, why put up with just part of a day? you want the whole thing? yes, yes! live whole. not part. aleve. that newly listed ranch and wait will be gone.ed for a mortgage, or, you could push that button. sfx: rocket launching. skip the bank. get approved in minutes. lift the burden of getting a home loan with rocket mortgage by quicken loans. (whisper) rocket
joining me to talk about that a more republican congressmen darryl issa senior member of the house foreign affairs committee. do they even know what they are hiring him to fight with trump about? >> no, they really don't judge. i can't believe i said that. long long story and i will tell you later but judge cometh one of those amazing things. they are hiring him for the same reason when i became chairman of the oversight committee they increase their staff at the white house in a way of lawyers even before i had asked for the first piece of information. for whatever reason the left-leaning, far left legislature in california wants to fight this administration on anything and everything so they can keep doing what they are doing. jeanine: is in california broke? >> they are certainly upside down. they have the highest income tax the nation, 13.3%, 8.5 plus%
sales tax and they have a budget deficit and businesses are leaving california. one of the greatest states to work and live in except for the government we have. jeanine: you question whether eric holder should even be practicing law, congressman. >> well it's the only constitutional officer ever held in contempt by congress. he lied to congress and in fact withheld information. we haven't missed him since he left because in fact he was somebody that had no respect for the law they were sworn to defend. jeanine: this retainer into law firm firm that he is in washington d.c. do we have any idea how big it is? >> well i suspect it's in the seven figures. jeanine: seven s. in millions? >> in the millions. air colder doesn't come cheap. he is quite a name and he's a rainmaker there but again this is somebody who lying to
congress should have lost his bar license. jeanine: interesting that he didn't. let's move onto donald trump and what he's done even before the white house. the latest this week's ford and we heard about carrier a few weeks ago and now ford. you have got mark fields -- mark fields was talking about the ford plant in what they are doing. >> i had dinner with mark fields in las vegas at the consumer electronics electronic show just last night. he's excited about a better business climate one in which ford can make investments in the united states and have them pay off and that's a result of this election. you are going to see other companies do that as you say even before president trump is sworn in the part of that is the same reason the stock market has gone up more than 1000 points. they are things you do in anticipation of a good market in their things you do it in anticipation of a government that's not going to be friendly.
right now the stock market and ford motor company are gearing up for a better economy one in which we have lower taxes, lower government spending and a pro-business environment that creates jobs in america. jeanine: there would be no subsidies or anything offered? >> this was a good business decision made by one of the great industrial companies of the world. jeanine: people in michigan even if they didn't vote for him i guess they would benefit, those union's? >> the rank-and-file workers at or motor company a great many of them voted for donald trump even though the union was saying not to. tonight i think they are very happy that they did. jeanine: congressman i think we are going to see a lot more americans happy with donald trump. anyway congressman darryl issa even though you didn't get my name right, thanks for being with us tonight. >> thank you, judge. jeanine: the first justice of 2017 straight ahead.
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jeanine: it's finally time for the first street justice of 2017 that i wanted to find out what people thought about those russian hacking hearings in washington and whether anyone really c when i stumble upon them at the construction site i found true love. take a look. >> i very much doubt it. >> or the russians hacking us? >> i can't hear. you think the redskins are hacking? are the russians hacking us? do we care? >> not really. >> what's the deal? is putin hacking us? >> i believe he is. >> do you think that we hack him too? >> no. >> really? don't you watch the movie's?
>> you are pretty lady. >> don't foreign countries spy on each other over time? >> i don't know. >> do you watch the movie's? are you worried about anything? >> no, i'm not. >> are you on your break? do you want me to leave? are the russians hacking us? >> i don't know. >> do you care? >> not really. >> why is congress having hearings on the? >> they want to distract the public i guess. >> what are you focused on? >> money. >> do you remember the hunt for red october? do remember sean connery -- do you think we do that kind of thing? >> no. >> no, of course not so why is congress having a hearing about hacking? >> democrats are not happy about trump and they have to do whatever they can. >> are you worried about the russians hacking us? >> i'm not worried at all.
all of a sudden russia is a big enemy of the united states of america. what's the problem? >> the reason is the democrats lost and they are trying to come up with a reason. >> that's so sweet. why would anyone get married? are you married? >> 16 lovely years. >> i had 16 lovely years too. you were getting married? why? why? are you getting married? do you know someone is getting engaged to your? >> today? >> they are putting a sign up. they just told me. i'm not lying. you are getting married. why? >> you fall in love you brian. i'm only kidding. >> what is the banners they? what is she going to say? >> i hope she says yes.
>> would have she says not today? >> then we will see what tomorrow brings. >> let me look at the ring in i will tell you what she will say. who is calling? tell him you are talking to me. now listen, show me the ring. oh my god it's gorgeous. >> thank you maam. >> marriage is wonderful, it is. and guess what, he asked her, he raised a giant banner in times square and she said yes. congratulations from all of us. see you at the wedding. back in a moment with a final thought on a man i know all too well. stay tuned. a heart attack can happen without warning. a bayer aspirin regimen can help prevent another heart attack. be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. bayer aspirin.
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best practices within the ihs system itself and shared those and incense vized the ability to move that kind of activity that is providing high-quality care for individuals in that system, in certain areas, and making certain that we're able to extend that across the country in the ihs. >> okay. we look forward to working with you on that. i think best practices is a good place to start. obviously, those have not been employed in a lot of facilities in our state. in 2009, cms issued a final rule that required all outpatient therapeutic services to be provided under direct supervision every year since then. the rule has been delayed. either administratively or legislatively in small and rural hospitals. i shared this with you as well. in my statement we have a lot of critical access hospitals, rural areas, big geography to cover, and sometimes difficult to get providers out to these areas. so, the question is, if confirmed, will you work to
charge of some of these issues in a way that removes that power from washington, d.c., where i think too many of the problems have been happening. thank you, mr. chairman. >> look forward to it. >> senator casey. >> thank you, mr. chairman. dr. price, good to be with you again. >> thank you. >> i want to ask you a couple questions that center principally on children and individuals with disabilities. first with regard to children, i think if we're doing the right thing, as -- not only as government but as a society, if we're really about the business of justice, and if we're really about the business of growing the economy, we should invest a lot and spend a lot making sure every child has health care. the good news, despite a lot of years of not getting to that point, not moving in the right direction, the good news is, we made a lot of progress. the urban institute in an april 2016 report, i won't ask -- i won't ask the report to be made
part of the record, but i'll read a line from this urban institute report. uninsurance among children 1997 to 2015 dated april 2016, says as follows on page 3, it said that the decline in children's uninsurance rate occurred at a relatively steady pace and includes a significant drop following implementation of the affordable care act's key coverage provisions from 7.1% in 2013 to 4.8% in 2015, unquote. so, that's a significant drought. 7.1 to 4.8 is millions of kids have health insurance today that would not have it absent the affordable care act, including the medicaid provisions as well. that 4.8% uninsured rate is at an all-time low. that means we're at a 98% insured rate across the country
able to commit to us today, that that -- that the number of uninsured children will not increase under your -- during your time as secretary for ywer to be confirmed and the number of uninsured would not increase? >> our goal it is to decrease the number of uninsured population under age 18 and over age 18. >> i hope you maintain that because i think that's going to be critically important. the reason i ask that question is not just to validate that as a critically important goal for the nation, but it's -- your answer seems to be contrary or in conflict with what you have advocated for as a member of the house of representatives, not only in your individual capacity but as chairman of the budget committee. looking at now for reference a -- an op-ed by gene spurling.
with regard to -- with regard to your policies, the effect of what your policies would be, and now apparently contrary to what was said during the kaernlgs it's now the policy of the trump administration to block grant medicaid? >> with respect to both you and to mr. spurling, it's because you all are looking at this in a silo. we don't look at it in a silo. we believe it is possible to imagine, in fact, put in place, a system that allows for greater coverage for individuals. as a matter of fact, coverage that actually equals care. right now many of those individuals -- the aca actually increased coverage in this country. it's one of the things that it actually did. the problem is, is that a lot of folks have coverage but they don't have care. so, they've got the insurance card. they go to the doctor. the doctor says, this is what we believe you need and they say, i'm sorry -- >> a cut of $1 trillion, a combined cut of $1 trillion that would adversely impact the children's health insurance
program and the medicaid program is totally unacceptable i think to most americans, democrat, republican or otherwise. >> you're looking at that in a silo. you aren't looking at that in what reform and improvement would be. >> we're look at the rebuttal in not just what gene spurling said but a whole line of public policy, advocates and experts. and i think the burden for you, sir, is to make sure you fulfill your commitment to make sure no children will lose health insurance coverage while you are secretary. >> look forward to working with you. >> senator hiller. >> thank you, mr. chairman. dr. price, thank you for being here today. thanks for your patience in working with us throughout this confirmation process. >> if you can put your mike on. >> it is on. i'll lean a little forward. mr. chairman, as you can imagine, i committed to ensuring that all have access to quality and affordable health care insurance.
i have a letter from nevada legislature, directly from our majority leader of the state senate and our speaker of the assembly. and they're good questions. five questions. obviously, they want to get the same answers that all of us want here. we have a nevada 88,000 nevadans who have health insurance through the exchange. 77,000 nevadans eligible for federal tax credits. 217,000 nevadans that receive health care coverage under expansion. basic questions. mr. chairman, if i may, can i submit these questions to the record, on the record, and also if i may ask dr. price if he would respond to this particular letter, to these legislators. again, i think they're very good question. >> without objection. >> also if i may add f you could cc the governor also. i think the governor would also like answers to these questions. i think you're in a great position to answer these particular questions. >> thank you, sir. >> thank you.
if i may, can i get your opinion on the cadillac tax? >> i think the cadillac tax is -- is one that has made it such that individuals who are gaining their coverage through their employer -- there may be a better way to make if so that individuals gaining their coverage through their employer are able to gain access to the kind of coverage they desire. >> the cadillac tax would affect about 1.3 million nevadans. school teachers, union members, senior citizens. and there's some disagreement as to whether or not these individuals are wealthy or not. there are some on this committee that believe the $1.1 trillion tax increase in obamacare does not affect the middle class. do you agree with that? >> i think it does affect middle class. >> i do, too. do you believe school teachers are wealthy?
>> everybody has their own metric of what wealthy is and some people use things to determine what wealth that aren't the greenbacks -- >> i would argue most school teachers don't think they're wealthy. do you think most union members are wealthy? >> i doubt they think they're wealthy. >> yeah, i would agree with that. do you think most senior citizens are wealthy? >> most senior citizens are on a fixed income. >> they would argue they're not wealthy. that's my argument on this particular tax. in fact, obamacare as a whole is it's another middle class tax increase of $1.1 trillion. my -- i guess my question and question for you is, is that if i can get your commitment to work with this committee, work with myself to end -- and the treasury secretary to repeal the cadillac tax? >> well, we'll certainly work to make certain those who gain their coverage through their
employer have the access to the highest quality care and coverage possible in a way that makes the most sense for individuals from a financial standpoint as well. >> does the cadillac tax make the most sense? >> as i mentioned, i think there are other options that may work better. >> do you believe it is an increase, health insurance increase, to middle class america? >> i do. >> okay. i want to go to medicaid expansion for just a minute. nevada was one of 36 states that chose to expand eligibility for medicaid. we went from -- iveng the enrollment went from 350,000 to over 600,000. and i guess the concern, and i think it's part of the letter that i gave to the chairman, is whether or not that will have an impact. what we're going to do to see that those individuals aren't impacted. probably the biggest question we have for you here today is what are we going to do about those that are part of the medicaid expansion and how that's going to impact them?
>> yeah, again, as i mentioned to a question on the other side, i believe this is a policy question that needs to be worked out through both the house and the senate. we look forward to working with you and others, if i'm able to be confirmed, and making certain that individuals who are currently covered through medicaid expansion either retain that coverage or in some way have coverage through a different vehicle. but every single individual ought to be able to have access to coverage. >> dr. price, thank you. thank you for being here. >> thank you. senator warner. >> thank you, mr. chairman. good to see you again, dr. price. >> thank you. >> let me start on something we discussed in my office. one. issues i've been working on since i've been governor, working very closely with your friend senator isaacson is the issue of how we as americans address the end of life and those issues. i think we both shared personal stories on that subject. senator isaacson and i have legislation that is called the
care planning act that does not remove anyone's choices. it simply allows families to have those discussions with their health care provider and religious/faith leader if needed or desired in a way to prepare for that stage of life. this year cms took a step by introducing a payment into the fee schedule to provide initial reimbursement for providers to have these conversations with others. this is mentioned in a multidisciplinary case team. it also ran a pilot program that allowed hospice-type benefits to be given to individuals who were still receiving some level of curative services called the medicare choice -- medicare care choices. i believe it's very important that we don't go backwards on these issues. i think we talked about, maybe the only industrial nation in the world that hasn't had this kind of adult conversation about this part of life.
again, not about limiting anyone's choices, but would you -- if you're confirmed, would you continue to work with senator isaacson and i on this very important issue? >> i look forward to doing so. >> and not be part of any effort to roll back those efforts that cms have already taken? >> i think it's important to take a look at the broad array of issues. one issue is liability. i can't remember if we discussed that in your office. the whole issue of liability surrounding these conversations is real. we need to talk about it openly, honestly and work together to try to find a solution to just that. >> i would concur with that. but i also think this is something that more families need to take advantage of. on friday, january 20th, the president -- president trump issued an executive order th that -- that says federal agencies, especially hhs, should do everything they can to, quote, eliminate any fiscal burden of any state -- on any state or any cost fee, tax penalty or regulatory burden on individuals and providers. dr. price, if you're confirmed
in this position, will you use this -- will you use this executive order in any way to try to cut back on implementation or following the individual mandate before there is a replacement plan in place? >> well, i think that if i'm -- if i'm confirmed, then i'm humble enough to appreciate and understand that i don't have all the answers and that the people at the department have incredible knowledge and an expertise. and that my first action within the department itself, as it relates to this, is to gain that insight, gain that information, so that whatever decisions we can make with you and with governors and others can be the most informed and intelligent decision possible. >> i'm not sure you answered my question. i just -- what i would not want to see happen, as we take -- i understand your concerns with the cadillac tax. i know there are concerns about you and others have raised about the individual mandate.
there are some that are concerned about the income tax surcharges. it's just remarkable to me, and this is one of the reasons i think so many of us are anxious to see your replacement plan, that the president has said we want insurance for everybody. he wants to keep prohibitions on pre-existing condition, keep people on policies until 26. it seems like there's at the same time a rush to eliminate all of the things that pay for the ability to have -- for americans to have those kind of services. and i would just want your assurance that you wouldn't use this executive order prior to a legal replacement to eliminate the individual mandate, which i would believe helps shore up the cost coverage and the shifting of costs that are required in an insurance system. >> yeah, i -- a replacement, a reform, an improvement of the program, i believe, is imperative to be instituted simultaneously or at a time in -- >> you will not use this executive order as a reason to, in effect, bypass the law prior
to replacement in place? >> our commitment is to carry out the law of the land. >> in these last couple minutes i want to go on. i know you've been in the past a strong critic of the center for medicare and medicaid and innovation of cmmi. i believe in your testimony last week, you saw great promise in it. to me f we're going to move towards a system that emphasizes quality of care rather than simply quantity of care, we've got to have this kind of experimentation. there's one such program, the diabetes prevention program. that last year cms certified it saved money on a per beneficiary basis. i know my time is rung out. i think they can probably be answered yes or no. do you support cmm delivery system reform demonstrations that have the potential to reduce spending without harming the quality of care? >> the second clause is the most important one. i suspect making certain we deliver money -- that we deliver care in a cost effective manner but we absolutely must not do things that harms the quality of care being provided to patients. >> if part of that quality of
care, and i'd agree with you, would mean bundled and episodic payment models that actually move us toward quality over volume, would you support those efforts? >> for certain patient populations, bundled payments make a lot of sense. >> if these experiments are successful, would you allow the expansion of these across the whole system? >> i think that what we ought to do is allow for all sorts of innovation, not just in this area. there are things i'm certain that haven't been thought up yet, that would actually improve quality and delivery of health care in our country. we ought to be incentivizing that kind of innovation. >> i would simply say, mr. chairman, cmmi is an area i would like to have seen more but it's a model and tool we ought to not discard. thank you. >> thank you, senator. senator scott. >> thank you, chairman. dr. price, good see you again. launched the nation's first statewide pay for success project with nurse/family partnership with the use of medicaid funds. 20% of the babies born in south
carolina are born to first-time, low income mothers. we also have a much higher than average infant mortality rate. nurse/family partnership is an evidence-based and has already shown real results. both in the health of the mother and the babies. but also in other aspects of the mother's life, such as high school graduation rates for teen moms and unemployment rates. what are your thoughts on incorporating a pay for success model to achieve success metrics? >> it sounds like a great program that is actually has the right metric. that is the quality of care and the improvement of lives. and as you state, if it's having that kind of success, it probably ought to be put out there again as a best practice for other states to look at and try to model. >> yes, sir. thank you. i believe you were the director of the orthopedic clinic at grady memorial hospital in atlanta. >> i was. >> you mentioned something that i think is very important. i think grady hospital had the highest level of uninsured
georgians. you talked about having coverage but really not access. can you elaborate on how your experience at grady may help inform you and direct you as it relates to the uninsured population? >> it was an incredible privilege to work at grady the number of years i did. we saw patients from all walks of life and many, many uninsured individuals. they come with the same kinds of concerns, the same kinds of challenges that every other individual has. and one of the big -- they have an additional concern and that is, is somebody going to be caring for me? is somebody going to be ainl able to help me. that's why it was so fulfilling to have the privilege of working at grady and assisting people at a time when they were not only challenged from a health care standpoint, but challenged from the concern of whether or not people would be there to help them. >> yes, sir. i know you're aware of the title
i of every student succeeds act. head start to have access to resources. it seems to me that would be imperative for the secretary of hhs and secretary of education to look ats tos synergiz to help the underprivileged student? can i get your commitment to work with the secretary of education where it makes sense to help serve those students? we have head start under you and other programs under esa. it would be wonderful for us to take the taxpayer in one hand, the child in the other hand and look for ways to make sure that they both win. >> yeah, i -- you've identified an area that is a pet peeve of many of ours. that is, that we don't seem to collaborate across jurisdictional lines. not just in congress, but certainly in the administrative side. look forward to doing just that. having as a meertd tric, how ar
kids doing? are they actually getting the kind of service and education that they need? are they improving? are we just being custodians? are we just parking kids in a spot or are we actually assisting in improving their lives and able to demonstrate that? if we're not asking the right questions f we're not looking at the right metrics, we won't get the right answers to expand what's actually working or modify it and move it in a better direction. >> thank you. i think that's one of the more important parts of your opportunity in this position, is looking at those kids, and you know as well as anyone as a doctor, those ages, before you ever get into pre-k, kindergarten, the development of the child in those first three or four years are powerful opportunities for us to direct one's potential so that they maximize it. sometimes we're missing those opportunities. we think somehow the education system will help that child catch up, but there are things that have to happen before they ever get in the education
system. so, i thank you for your willingness to work in that direction. my last question has to deal with the employ-sponsored health care system we're so accustomed to in this country that provides so many with their own insurance. in my home state we have 2.5 million people covered by their employer coverage. if confirmed as hhs secretary, how would you support american employers in their effort to provide effective family health coverage in a consistent and affordable matter? said differently, there's been some conversation about looking for ways to decouple having health insurance through your employer. >> i think the employer system has been absolutely remarkable success in allowing individuals to gain coverage they might otherwise not gain. i think preserving the employer system is -- is imperative. that being said, i think there may be ways in which individual
employers -- i've heard employers say, if you give me the opportunity to provide my employees so they can select the coverage they want, that makes more sense to them. if that works from a voluntary standpoint for employers and for employees, then it may be something to look at. >> that would be more like the hra approach, where -- >> exactly. >> -- employer funds an account and the employee chooses the health insurance, not necessarily under the umbrella of the employer specifically? >> exactly. and gains the same tax benefit. >> thank you, chairman. >> thank you. senator mccaskill. >> at risk of being way, way away from you, and you being someone i've worked with and respected greatly i want to correct something in your opening statement. the first nominee of president trump that this senate considered was confirmed by a vote of 98-1. i would not consider that a partisan vote. the second nominee of president
trump was confirmed by a vote of 88-11. once again, i would not consider that a partisan vote. so, i really do think we are all trying to look at each nominee individually. and i have had a chance to review congressman price's questioning of secretary sabelius. it was no bean bag. it was tough stuff. i think all of this looks different depending on where we're sitting. i wanted to make that point. as to passing obamacare without one democratic vote, we're about to repeal obamacare without one democratic vote. this will be a partisan exercise under reconciliation. it will not be a bipartisan effort. what we have after the repeal is trumpcare. whatever is left after the dust settles is trumpcare. now, i know the president likes to pay close attention to what he puts his name on and i have a
feeling, congressman, that even though you keep saying today that congress will decide, you're not really believing, are you, that your new boss is not going to weigh in on what we -- what he wants congress to pass? we're not going to have a plan from him? >> we look forward to working with you and other members -- >> my question is, will we have a plan from the president? will he have a plan? >> if i have the privilege to being confirmed, i look forward to working with the president and bringing a plan to you. >> great. so, the plan will come from president trump, and you will have the most important role in shaping that plan as his secretary of health and human services, correct? >> i hope i have input, yes, ma'am. >> yes. so whatever trumpcare ends up being, you will have a role in it. i think it's really important to get that on the record. now, when we repeal obamacare,
we're going to do a tax cut. does anybody in america who makes less than $200,000, are any of them going to benefit from that tax cut? >> that's a hypothetical and you all are -- >> no, it's not a hypothetical. when we repeal obamacare, there are taxes in obamacare. and when it is repealed,there is no question that taxes are going to be repealed i promise you, the taxes are going to be repealed. when those taxes are repealed, will anyone in america who makes less than $200,000 benefit from the repeal of those taxes? >> i look forward to working with you on the plan and hopefully that will be the case. >> no, no, no, no. i'm asking, the taxes in there now, does anybody who makes less than $200,000 now, pay those taxes now? >> it depends on how you define the taxes. many individuals are paying more than they did prior to -- >> no, i'm talking about taxes.
the cadillac tax has not been implemented, so that doesn't affect anybody. i'm trying to get at the very simple question, that i don't think you want to answer. in fact, when obamacare is repealed, no one in america who makes less than $200,000 is going to enjoy the benefit of that. >> as i say, if confirmed, i look forward to working with you on that. >> that's not an answer. in my office, ending medicare, your plan and you have worked on for year, and converting medicare to private insurance markets with government subsidies, correct? >> not correct. >> well, we talked yesterday, and we kind of went through this in my office. by the end of our conversation, you admitted to me, and i'm going to quote you, that your plan for medicare in terms of people getting either tax credits or subsidies or whatever -- however you're going to pay for the medicare recipients would be them having choices on a private market. you said, yes, it was pretty similar to obamacare, with the
exception of the mandate. didn't you say that to me yesterday? >> that's a fairly significant exception. >> well, but these people are old. they don't need to be mandated to get insurance. it's not like a 27-year-old who doesn't think he's going to get sick. you don't need a mandate for people who are elderly. they have to have health insurance. so, the mandate is not as relevant, but didn't you admit to me that obamacare and private markets is very similar to what you were envisioning? didn't you use the phrase, similar? >> it is pretty similar. what i did say is the mandate is significant. >> the mandate is significant, i get, in obamacare. but we don't need a mandate for seniors, would you agree with that? you don't need to tell seniors they need health insurance? >> i hope we don't need a mandate for anybody so they can purchase the kind of coverage they want and not the kind the government forces them to buy. >> finally, you want to block grant medicaid for state flexibility and efficiency, correct? >> i believe that medicaid is a
system that is now not responding necessarily to the needs of the recipients. consequently, it's incumbent upon all of us as policymakers to look for a better way to solve that challenge. >> are you in favor of block granting medicaid? >> i'm in favor of a system more responsive. >> are you in favor of block granting medicaid? it's a simple question, congressman. for the most powerful job in health care in the country. i don't know why you're unwilling to answer block granting medicaid. it's not that complicated. >> i'm in favor of making certain medicaid is a system that responds to patients, not the government. >> i don't understand why you won't answer that. and i don't have time. i know i'm over. i will probably -- i don't know if we're going to get another round, mr. chairman. should i ask my last question or are we going to get another chance? >> i'm going to allow additional questions. i hope that not everybody will take the opportunity. >> i will digssappoint you, i'm
sorry. >> let me just on that point say that obamacare raised taxes on millions of americans families across income levels. nonpartisan joint committee on taxation in may of 2010 analyses identified significant widespread tax increases on taxpayers earning under $200,000 contained in the aca. and, for example, for 2017, 13.8 million taxpayers with incomes below $200,000 will be hit with more than $3.7 billion, with a "b," in obamacare tax from an increase in the income floor for the medical expense deductions. obamacare has led to middle class tax hikes. without question, it's led to fewer insurance options, higher deductibles and higher premiums. so, i think those are facts that can't be denied.
>> i'll look forward to looking at those facts because somewhere in this mix we have alternative facts. >> well, just -- >> i think these are right, i can tell you that. >> well, i think mine are right. >> mr. chairman, point of privilege to respond? >> yes, sir. >> on this point, no alternative facts. the republicans in last year's reconciliation bill cut taxes for one group of people. they cut taxes for the most fortunate in the country. that's a matter of public record. it's not an alternative factor or universe. people making $200,000 and up got their taxes cut. that was in the reconciliation bill of the republicans last year. >> well, let's see who's next here. i don't agree with that, but we'll see who's next. senator grassley -- oh, cassidy. i didn't see you. senator cassidy and then senator
grassley. >> thank you, mr. chairman. dr. price, how are you? >> i'm well, senator. >> let's talk a little about medicaid because we're getting this rosy scenario of obamacare and of the republican attempt to replace it. it does seem a little odd. first, i want to note for the record that president trump has said in various ways that he doesn't want people to lose coverage. he would like to cover as many people as under obamacare. wishes to take care of those with pre-existing conditions and to do it without mandates and lower costs. those will be your marching orders, fair statement? >> absolutely. >> now, let's go to -- you and i, we talked at a previous meeting. we both worked in public hospitals for the uninsured. and for the poorly insured, folks like medicaid. now, let's just talk about medicaid. why would we see patients on medicaid at a hospital for the uninsured? if they wanted to see an orthopedic -- orthopedist in private practice, does medicaid pay a provider well enough to pay costs of seeing an orthopedic patient? >> oftentimes it does not. as you well know, as i mentioned
before, one out of three physicians who ought to be able to see medicaid patients in this nation, do not take any medicaid patients. there's a reason for that. whether it's reimbursement or whether it's hassle factor or regulations or the like. but that's a system that isn't working for those patients. and we auought to be honest abo that, look at that and answer the question why and then address that. >> now, i'll note that when the house version of the aca passed, robert pear in the "new york times" wrote an article about a michigan physician, an oncologist, who had so many medicaid patients from michigan medicaid that she was going bankrupt. she had to discharge patients from her practice. now, the ranking members said we can't have alternative facts. agree with that. we also know new england journal of medicine article speak being medicaid expansion in oregon about how when they expanded medicaid in oregon, outcomes did not improve. so, i suppose that kind of
informs you as you say we need to make medicaid better for patients. >> absolutely. we need to look at the right metrics. just gaining coverage for individuals is an admirable goal. but it is -- it ought not be the only goal. providing for people on the ground, for real people and real lives. whether or not we're affecting them in a positive way or negative way. if we're affecting them in a negative way, again, we need to be honest with ourselves and say, how can we improve that? >> now, a lot of times there's this kind of conflation of per beneficiary payments to states per medicaid enrollee and block grants, which to me is a conflation. i'll note that bill clinton on the left and phil graham and rick santorum on right proposed per beneficiary payments some time ago. it's actually how -- would you agree with this, how the federal
employee self-benefit program pays for these federal employ s employees, they pay per beneficiary payment to an insurer, fair statement? >> correct. >> wouldn't it be great if medicare worked as as well as federal employee health insurance in terms of outcome? >> when you talk about the medicaid population, it's not a monolithic population. there are four different demographic groups within it -- seniors and disabled and then healthy moms and kids, by and large. we treat each one of those folks exactly the same from the medicaid rules. >> so, when you're pressed on whether, by golly, you believe in block grants, i don't hear any nuance in that queshgs are you speak being a per beneficiary payment? are you speak being each of those four, one of those four? how do you dice that? new york is an older state demographically. utah is a young statement. fair statement? >> absolutely. those are the things i think we tend not to look at, because they're more difficult to measure. they're more difficult to look at.
but when we're talking about people's lives, when we're talking about people's health care, it's imperative we do the extra work that needs to be done to determine whether or not, yes, indeed, the public policy we're putting forward will help you, not harm you. >> let me ask because there's also some criticism about health savings accounts. i love them because they activate the patient. i think we're familiar with the healthy indiana plan where on a waiver they gave folks of lower income health savings accounts and had better outcomes, decreased e usage. any comment on that? >> just when people do engage in their health care, they tend to demand more, they tend to demand better services. and individuals that have greater opportunity for choices of who they see, where they're treated, when they're treated and the like, have greater opportunity to gain better health care. >> going back to not one to have alternative facts f we contrast the experience in healthy indiana with the experience in oregon where national economic
bureau of research published in new england journal of medicine found no different outcome from those fulfilled in medicaid expansion program in oregon, contrast with good outcomes, in that which in indiana engaged patient to become activated in their own care, er usage fell but outcomes improved. i think in our world of standard facts, i kind of like your position. thanks for bringing a nuanced, informed view to the health care reform debate, dr. price. >> thanks, senator. senator grassley. >> two statements before i ask a couple questions. one is, it's kind of a welcome relief to have somebody of your profession in this very important role, particularly knowing the importance of the doctor/patient relationship, because in my dealing with cms and hhs over a long period of time, i think that the bureaucracy has been short of a lot of that hands-on information that people ought to have.
and secondly, when you were in my office, we discussed the necessity of your responding to congressional inquiries. and you very definitely said you would. i tongue in cheek said maybe you ought to say maybe because a lot of times they don't do it, but since you said you would, i will hold you to that and appreciate anything you can do to help us do our oversight. as a result of oversight, i got a legislation passed a few years ago called a physician's payment sunshine act. and the only reason i bring this up is because it took senator wyden and me last december working hard to stop the house of representatives from gutting that legislation in the cures act that passed. i want to make very clear that the legislation i'm talking
about doesn't prohibit anything. it only has reporting requirements because it makes it very, very -- well, it brings about the principle of transparency, brings accountability. and i've got some studies here that we did, and some newspaper reports on them, particularly one about a psychiatrist at emory university that was not reporting everything that they should report and even the president of the emory university came to my office and said, thank you for making us aware of this stuff. i want to put those in the record. since you're administering this legislation and since senator blumenthal and i will think about expanding this legislation
to include nurse paractitioner assistant and even under the obamacare administration, after we got it passed, it was three years getting regulations, to get it carried out. so, effectively, it's only been working for 2, maybe 2 1/2 years. so i would like to -- if you're confirmed, would you and the department of human -- health and human services work with me to ensure that this transparency initiative is not weakened? >> we look forward to working with you, sir. i think transparency in this area and so many others is vital. again, not just -- not just in outcomes or in pricing but so many areas so patients are able to understand what's going on in the health care system. >> thank you. last one deals with vaccine safety. you're a physician. i believe you would agree that immunization is very important for modern medicine and that we've been able get rid of smallpox way back in '77,
worldwide polio, i think, in 1991. at least in the western hems and all that. so, as a physician, would you recommend that families follow the recommended vaccine schedule that has been established by experts and is constantly reviewed? >> i think that science and health care has identified a very important aspect of public health, and that's the role of vaccinations. >> thank you very much. i yield back my time. >> thank you, senator. senator stabenau. >> thank you. a series of stories from public forehe forum that was held by my colleagues, that that be included in the record. >> without objection. >> thank you very much. welcome, congressman price,
and -- >> senator. >> -- and appreciate our private discussion as well as the discussion this morning. let's start out with lots of questions and see if we can move through some things quickly. you said this morning that you would not abandon people with pre-existing conditions is that basically what you're talking about is high-risk pools, is that one of the strategies that you're thinking about? i've heard that talked about this morning. >> i think high-risk pools can be incredibly helpful in making certain individuals that have pre-existing illness are able to be cared for in the highest manner possible. i think there are other methods as well. we've talked about other pooling mechanisms, the destruction of the small group market has made it such that folks can't find coverage affordable for them. one way to solve that challenge is to allow individuals in the small group market to pool together. i think we talked about this in your office.
with the old blue heel model being the template for individuals who aren't economically aligned are able to pool together their resources solely for the purpose of purchasing coverage. >> for about 35 years we have tried high-risk pools. 35 states had them before the affordable care act. frankly, it didn't produce great results. in 20110.2% of people with pre-existing conditions, 0.2%, were actually in a high-risk pool. and the premiums were 150 to 200% higher than standard rates for healthy individuals. and they had lifetime and annual limits on coverage and cost states money. so, that was the reality before we passed the affordable care act. so, let me also ask you, when president trump said last weekend that insurance was going to be much better, do you think that insurance without protections for those pre-existing conditions or
without maternity coverage or without mental health coverage or insurance that would reinstate caps on cancer treatments is better? >> well, i don't know that that's what he was referring to. >> he said it would be better. if we, in fact, took away -- if we went to high-risk tools instead of covering people with pre-existing conditions or if we stopped the other coverage we have now, i'm just wondering if you define that as better. >> you'd have to give me a specific -- >> well, let me -- >> what may be better for you may not be better for me or anyone else. that's the important thing i'm trying to get across. is patients need to be at the center of this, not government. should government be deciding these things or should patients be deciding these things? >> prior to the affordable care act, about 70% of the private plans that a woman could purchase in the marketplace did
not cover basic maternity care. do you think that that's better, not to cover basic maternity care? >> i presume that she wouldn't purchase that coverage if she needed it then. >> she would have to pay more, just as in general for many women, just being a woman with a pre-existing condition. that is the reason why we have a basic set of services covered under health care. it's just a different way of looking at this. this is something where, sure, if a woman wanted to pay a premium, wanted to pay more, she could find maternity care. we said in the affordable care act, that's pretty basic. for over half the population who are women, maternity care ought to be covered. let me go to another one. do you believe mental health services should be a guaranteed benefit in all health insurance plans? >> i've been a supporter of mental health inclusion, yes.
>> so, mental health should be a defined benefit under health insurance plans? >> i think mental health illnesses ought to be treated on the same model as other physical ill pss. %-p lot of discussion, and i have to say also with the nominee for office management and budget also talking today about medicare and social security, i personally believe people on medicare should be very worried right now in terms of what overall we're hearing. but i did want -- my time is up. i did want just to indicate a message from my mom who's 98 years old who said she doesn't want more choices. she just wants to be able to see her doctor and get the medical care that she needs. is not at all supportive of the idea of medicare in some way being changed into premium support into a voucher. so, i'm conveying to you somebody who's getting great
care right now and she's not interested in more choices. she just wants to keep her care. thank you. >> chairman, i would just convey to medicare population in this nation that they don't have reason to be concerned. we look forward to assisting them and gaining the care and coverage they need. >> thank you. >> senator cantwell. >> thank you, mr. chairman. congressman price, sorry we haven't had a chance to talk. >> i apologize. >> no, i think both have tried and it's been a myriad of consequences. >> weather. >> i wanted to ask you broadly, i know a lot of my colleagues have been asking you about medicaid, but what do you think is the rise in medicaid cost? what is it due to? >> i think it's multifactorial. we have a system that has many, many controls that are providing greater costs to the provision of the care, that is -- that's being provided. i think that oftentimes we're not identifying the best
practices in the medicaid system, so that patients move through the system in a way that's much more economical and much more efficient and effective. not just from a cost standpoint, but from a patient standpoint. there are so many things that could be done for especially the sickest of the sick in the medicaid population, where we could put greater resources and greater individual attention to individual patients. as you know, in a bell curve of patients in any population, there are those that are the outliers on the high side, where they -- where the resources spent to be able to provide their care is significant. and if you focus on those individuals, then you oftentimes -- specifically, then you oftentimes can provide a higher level of care and a higher level of quality of care for those folks and a more responsive care for those folks at a lower cost and move them down into the mainstream of the bell curve. >> okay. well, you brought up a couple of interesting points. and i want to follow up on that.
specifically, if i started that conversation, i would start with two big fa nphenomenons. if you're living 10 or 15 years longer than in the past, they're going to consume more health care. second, the baby boomer population reaching retirement age. those two things are ballooning the cost of health care in general, and, specifically, for the medicaid population. and i want to make sure i understand where you are, because i feel like the administration is creating a war on medicaid. you're saying that you want to cap and control the cost. and what we've already established in the affordable care act are those things that are best practice incentives and ways to give the medicaid population leverage in getting affordable health care. i want to understand if you are for these things. for example, we provided
resources in the affordable care act for -- to rebalance off of -- for medicaid patients off of nursing home carrion to community-based care. why? because it's more affordable. do you support that rebalancing effort? >> i would respectfully, senator, take issue with your description of war on medicaid. we want to make sure medicaid population is able to receive the highest possible care. i've cared for thousands of medicaid patients. the last thing we want is to decrease the quality of care they have access to. clearly, the system isn't working right now. moving towards home-based care is something that is -- that is -- if it's right for the patient, it's a wonderful thing to be able to do. we ought to incentivize that. there are so many things we could do in medicaid that what provide greater quality of care that we don't incentivize right now. >> we did incentivize it in the affordable care act in your state and about other 20 states
actually did it. they took the money from the affordable care act, in fact, georgia received $57 million in transition to make sure medicaid beneficiaries got care in community-based care. it's been able to shift 10% of their long-term costs, basically, to that community-based care. so, huge savings. it's working. so, are you for repealing that part of the affordable care act? >> what i'm for is making certain, again, the medicaid population has access to the highest care possible. we'll do everything to improve that. so many in the medicaid population don't have access to the highest quality care. >> i would hope you would look at this model, and also look at the basic health plan model which is, again, what i think you're proposing and what the administration is refusing to refute, when the president said, i'm going to protect these things and my colleague, senator sanders brought this up and said, are you going to protect this and the white house chief of staff is now saying, no, no, we're basically going to cap medicaid spending. it's a problem.
what we want to do is we want to give them leverage in the marketplace. that's what the basic health plan does. that's what the community-based care plan does. it gives them the ability to get more affordable care at better outcomes and is saving us money. so, if you could give us a response. i see my time is expired. look at those two programs and tell me whether you support those delivery system reforms in the affordable care act. >> be happy to. >> thank you. >> thank you, senator. that would end our first round. i'd like to not go through a full second round. but we've got some additional senators here who would like to ask some more, so i guess we'll start with senator wyden. >> thank you, mr. chairman. congressman, i have several ideas on -- >> we're going to break away from the hearing momentarily to assess what we've just heard. an important hearing before the senate finance committee. the confirmation process for
dr. tom price. the congressman who has been nominated to become the next secretary of health and human services. it's already three hours, jake, they've been hearing the testimony. the confirmation process going forward. a lot of democrats are deeply concerned about this nomination. >> they are. and they've been really trying to press for specifics in terms of what exactly will be the bill, the legislation that replaces obamacare after republicans repeal it. even just basic opinions. kellyanne conway, president trump's top adviser, has said publicly that they are going to take medicaid and make it a block grant program, meaning the money instead of going from the federal government to individuals will go to states. states will decide how to mete out that money. and congressman price wouldn't even offer an opinion. senator claire mccaskill, democrat of missouri, was just asking, are you in favor of block granting medicaid, and he
on up trump. is moscow about to get tough? let's get to it. first from the fox news desk, nearly all of the millions of immigrants living illegally in america could face deportation at any time. that's according to new enforcement guidelines from the trump administration. the homeland security department's memo outlines how officials can carry out two executive orders from president trump. cracking down on illegal immigration. under the obama administration, they focused on certain groups including hardened criminals. under the new rules, john kelly writes that officials can target anybody living in the u.s. illegally. the home land security department says the orders will not affect anybody who came here illegally as children. the guidelines call for the
hiring of 10,000 new law enforcement agents and the border would start to be build. but the wording used "technology" instead of a wall in some areas. the president ban is set to update his executive order on immigration coming up. a new draft of the proposal shows the revised ban will target the same seven muslim majority nation but exempts those with visas or green cards. the draft no longer instructs officials to single out and reject visa applications from syrian refugees. opposing those the plan have called it anti-muslim. the harsh critics have accused him of opposing bigotry. the president speaked out about
bigotry. jewish community centers yesterday reported receiving a dozen bomb threats. that's the fourth wave of them this year. police say somebody toppled as many as 200 grave stones in st. louis at a historic cemetery. the first daughter ivanka trump called for tolerance. she married jared kushner who comes from an orthodox jewish family. here's what the president said hours ago in washington. >> this tour was a meaningful reminder of why we have to fight bigotry, intolerance and hatred in all of it's very ugly forms. the anti-semitic threats targeting our jewish centers are horrible and painful and a sad reminder of the work that still must be done to root out hate and prejudice and evil.
>> shepard: the president visited the museum to help mark black history month. john roberts is live this afternoon. how is the white house responding to the threats against the jewish communities? >> sean spicer defended the president's reaction to these threats against the jewish community centers and the vandalism. as you said, he was at the museum of african american history responding to it. the anne frank center released a statement saying the president's acknowledgement is a band aid of anti-semitism that has affected his on administration. the president was asked about this last week by a reporter, but the president didn't like the tone of the question so he told the reporter to sit down. that's what brought this to a head. here's what spicer said about it a short time ago. >> he's been very forceful with
his denunciation of those people that attack others because of religion, gender, because of the color of their skin. there's something that we can continue to fight and make clear that it has no place in this administration. >> spicer was asked about the response from the anne frank center for mutual respect. he said for some people, whatever the president says, it's never doing to be enough. shep? >> shepard: john, what is the white house saying about immigration guidelines? >> the new ones released today or the ones coming up? the big deal this week will be the new executive order on extreme vetting. what came out today are instructions. he ran into a big problem because it got blocked in a federal district court in seattle. the ninth circuit court of appeals upheld the judge's decision. that's going nowhere right now. the last couple weeks, ever since that happened at the ninth
circuit, attorneys at the counsel's office, the department of justice and dhs have been working very hard to write a new executive order that released probably thursday or friday, one that they believe will be judicially airtight. listen to spicer today. >> the next big piece in the immigration profile here that the white house will be the new executive order. is the president confident this will pass legal muster? >> we're confident that we're still going to prevail on the merits of the case. as was seen in the case of massachusetts, once it's fully adjudicated, we'll prevail. the authority is granted to the president to do what he has to to protect the country. >> there's an interesting angle here, shep. what sean spicer said they're going to continue with the court case. judge napolitano has said over and over again they should rescind the first order which would render the course cases moot. it would remove it from
consideration and they could put the new one in there. the white house looks like they're not going to do that, which judge napolitano says they can't figure out why they're doing it that way. >> shepard: sean spicer seems to be walking back the president's attacks on the media. >> a little bit. don't forget, it's only tuesday. there's plenty of days in the week left. look what president trump and his staff have said recently calling the media the opposition, the enemy of the state. i think there's plenty of room for president trump to go back out on offense on this. spicer did appear to walk it back a little. listen here. >> the president has been very clear that certain outlets have gone out of their way to not represent his record accurately. it's a concern to him. i think some reporters -- he has deep respect for the first amendment, the role of the press. i've addressed this many times. he has a healthy respect for the
press. but there's a two-way street. the president realizes that certain outlets have gone out of their way to not be accurate and fair in the coverage of what's going on. >> you might remember not long ago, shep, the president tore a huge strip off of the media saying hey, i can deal with bad news. i can take it. he thought there was so much hate for him among the press. he might be dialling it back. it's only tuesday. there's plenty of time for the president to go off on the media again. >> shepard: thanks, john. a.b. stoddard is here with us. hello, a.b. >> hi, shep. >> shepard: new guidelines on immigrants. ones in the nation illegally. give us the details as you know them and what it means to people here without documentation. >> right. you've heard all afternoon president obama deported three million immigrants more than any
other administration in history. the flow of immigration across the border is lower than it's been in ten years. at the same time, not -- the full extent of the law was not enforced by the obama administration. they targeted people that crossed recently, close to the border and criminals were a top priority, this is a much broader interpretation. while the target is criminals and people that have broken the law, it really is open to anybody that has been here and ends up getting caught up in this -- in this new sweep. so it doesn't mean they're targeting them or doesn't mean they're going to raid certain neighborhoods only to break up families. that's not their target. their target is criminals. but if you're living here illegally -- the definition of what -- if you have broken the immigration laws you've broken the law and therefore you're potentially technically a
criminal. so this is going to be -- how it's executed will tell the story right now. reading the memos, we don't know how it will be executed. certainly is written very broadly. it will depend on how local police are empowered to help the national -- to help ice and help the national agents execute the order. that's what it's going to come down to. there's 10,000 more immigration and customs enforcement agents. 5,000 more border agents. a great deal of resources being put into this. but when you look at it and how broad it can be interpreted, it sounds probably more dramatic than it might end up being in its enactment. >> shepard: there had been concerns and still are that people who are here without documentation could now be in a position where they can't call
the police if something bad happens to them. they can become the target of criminals. they wouldn't have recourse. it would be an un-american situation. after all, we let these people in here over a period ofobs that want to do. now the tables have turned and it almost appears they're the victims. >> well, it will certainly be described that way by people on the other side of this issue. trump is keeping campaign promises. none of this is really a surprise. none of us expected he would be deporting 11 million people and i don't think he will be. certainly the number of deportations will rise. there will be families separated and very dramatic stories about people being detained and taken away. that's going -- this is a very divisive issue, emotional and feed more opposition to trump. it's not that he's doing anything that he didn't say he's doing to do. he's not going to deport 11 million people.
it's how in ends up happening on the ground. while the interpretation is broad, the execution of it might actually really be just more resources targeted at criminals. >> shepard: one retreat that you might notice here is daca stays in place. >> yeah. that's a big surprise. you can see over time, trump was dodging this question. these were brought -- these were kids born here. no fault of their own. they are -- they are -- they're brought here as young children and grown up here. this is something that you saw trump backtrack on recently saying that it's a very difficult issue. this is the one surprised, that that stays in and one exemption that he gave himself in this memo. it might meet with a lot of conservative opposition but it
won't think it was very up popular to go after this subgroup. >> shepard: thanks, a.b. >> thanks, shep. >> shepard: the kremlin is reportedly working on a profile of. trump. what the russians have determined about our president. that's coming up from the fox news desk on this tuesday afternoon. to truly feel healthy on the outside you have to feel healthy at your core. trubiotics a probiotic from one a day naturally helps support both your digestive and immune health. feel a difference in two weeks or your money back. take the trubiotics 2 week challenge.
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>> shepard: the russians are putting together a psychological profile for vladimir putin. that's what a senior kremlin advisor tells nbc news. andre federov and retired putin staffers are working on this profile to help putin prepare important a meeting with trump. the russians have determined that he's a risk taker that can be naive. federov called trump's battle with the media is a risky game. people in the kremlin believe he won't have the political power to work with russia. it's worth noting the pentagon has done similar studies on vladimir putin. in 2008, one theorized he might
have asperger's syndrome. rich edson here with more. >> given what the officials have been saying about russia, vice president mike pence, rex tillerson, secretary of defense mattises a have warned about ru and to try to reduce the violence in eastern ukraine. that haves will advised that the united states stands behind nato. there's members of both parties of congress that are pushing the trump administration not to relax any sanctions against russia. now there's reports that the kremlin is ording state-run media to curtail their praise of trump because they're concerned he won't be as friendly against russia as first thought. >> shepard: now the russians say the old world order is
collapsing. >> yes. you're hearing statements from around the world and a number of forums. this comes from the long-time russian diplomat, current foreign minister. he says the post world war ii order is falling. >> the whole history stage that can be called "post cold war order" has come to an end. we're convinced the main result is a failure to apply to the new reality. >> he added that nato is a relic of the cold war. despite this, officials say there's potential for a better relationship between the two countries, shep. >> shepard: rich edson, thanks. russia's ambassador to the u.n. who died in new york city apparently had a heart attack. that's what a u.s. official tells the reuters news agency. the russians say they're waiting for an autopsy result before
announcing the official cause of death. he would have turn 65 today. this morning, the u.n. security council held a moment of silence in his memory. vitaly churkin worked for a decade as the u.s. ambassador. members of congress are headed home from a week-long vacation. for many, it's hardly a relaxing break. up next, why some republicans are getting an ear full from the folks back home. and milo lost his book deal and more. right now, there's a new development. it's breaking now and it's next.
>> shepard: just in, milo yiannopoulos resigned from his job as an editor at bright bart. yiannopoulos is the refender that had his high dollar book contract pulled after a video came out of him exposing views. in it, he condoned sexual relations with boys and laughed off the catholic church's pedophilia crisis. on bright bart, he spoke out about muslims, immigrants, trans-gender people. the boss at bright bart called yiannopoulos's positions appalling but did not fire him. yiannopoulos is holding a news conference right now. he said he resigned on his own so the alt right can continue and he's starting his own media
venture. welcome home! lawmaker is back in session. feeling the love from constituents in their districts. >> given the choice that was before us by far donald trump was the better choice by far. by far. >> shepard: there's a taste of it. how and senate republicans facing protesters, loud booing, heated questions about, among other things, obama care, president trump in general and other issues. there's lots of videos on youtube and instagram if you choose to look around. president trump supporters urged to give him a chance. some lawmakers are staying away from hosting public q&a sessions. a number of republicans getting in the ring today. trace gallagher is live with more. >> for example, shep, chuck grassly held a town hall in
iowa. it was called raucous and sweating with jeering, cheers and entinterruptions. grassley said he loved it and wouldn't do his job any other way. mitch mcconnell held a gathering in anderson county, kentucky and greeted by more than 1,000 protesters. here's the senator. >> i'm proud of those folks out there. they don't like what i'm doing. they don't cheer my agenda. but i respect their right to be there and to express themselves. that's what we do in this country. >> mcconnell reminded the crowd that winners make policy and losers go home. marsha blackburn, bill christmas did and florida congressman dennis ruff are holding town halls in their respective states. all have vowed to repeal obama care and expecting contention
gatherings. >> shepard: many are facing the criticisms because they're not holding the teen halls at all. >> richard burr from north carolina had graffiti in the sparking lot. tom till list says he believes the town halls are being hijacked. it's become apparent that some individuals that are not really interested in meaningful dialogue attend town halls to create disruptions and media spectacles. in the wake of jason chaffetz town hall getting jeered at his town hall. >> a weather alert and breaking news now on fox news channel, this is san jose, california.
live pictures from our a fill it 80, ktvu, fox 2 for the san francisco bay area. the flooding all over california is extreme today. we've watched water rescues, people have been trapped in this flooding. you can see all the america vehicles there. as they pan up here, there it is, an entirely flooded-out area. they've been affecting evacuations. many homes have been submerged in this area. now these are evacuations that are taking place even as we speak. this is in san jose, california. it's not limited to there. we had choppers up and down the coast, we could show you severe damage from san francisco to los angeles. officials in san joaquin county said a river levee broke there last night. about 80 miles east of san francisco. the flooding taking over the streets there. officials say crews working in the night to fix it.
they warn the water could stay high for four days. here in san jose south of san francisco. here's ground stuff from earlier. crews rescued in this particular video. an elderly couple stuck in their home. the water is up to people's waist there. folks in carmel and salinas are stuck. look at this. the mud has entered people's homes. this particular one, it's destroyed this home. a river of mud coming through the place. you can see it went to the walls, knocking the deck out. here's a view from the side, the front porch broke off the house, this one shows where it seems the ground just gave way. the sheriff's department says deputies are out in the big humvees to try to help with evacuation. a couple things i want to show you, this is where we're monitoring the pictures coming in from san jose.
you can see, this is reminiscement of so many flooding scenes across the nation and what appears to be an entire family or multiple families from nearby home. you can see how deep this is. the rescue workers pushing this boat along. we're expecting this to continue in the san jose, california area by san francisco for the next few days. here's what's causing this. this is los angeles. san francisco up here. you can see in l.a., rain same way in the san francisco area. all through the bread basket as well. so fresno, los angeles, san francisco, all across the west coast extreme flood expected and flooding in many of these areas. the rain will continue today and through the weekend. the flooding has replaced the drought on the west coast. they're feeling the heat today. these pictures of evacuations, it's as if the streets have
turned into rivers. one after the other, the rescue workers doing incredible work trying to save people from the mess that have taken their homes after extreme flooding. time to get back to politics. president trump's new national security advisor has a doctoral degree and has accomplished history on the battlefield. what he doesn't have is any experience in washington politics. coming up as we approach the bottom of the hour and the top of the news, an in depth look at m.r. mcmaster next. ase. i didn't think there was anything else to talk about. but then i realized there was. so, i finally broke the silence with my doctor about what i was experiencing. he said humira is for people like me who have tried other medications but still experience the symptoms of moderate to severe crohn's disease. in clinical studies, the majority of patients on humira saw significant symptom relief. and many achieved remission. humira can lower your ability to fight infections,
including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. if you're still just managing your symptoms, talk with your gastroenterologist about humira. with humira, remission is possible.
from kriv, our fox local station in houston. the latest word is that shots began to fire about 30 minutes ago at what is a level 1 trauma center. location of this is in the southwest area of houston not far from rice university and just on the edge there of the houston zoo. this trauma center on lockdown. i presume not accepting patients now. our breaks news coverage continues next on fox news channel.
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triage center were patients were being treated. you can see them on the left. they appear to be zooming in. here's what we don't know. we don't know if these are patients in the hospital and have been moved out because after all, inside there's been a shooting or because people are being treated. i can tell you this, fox 26 is reporting there's no indication of anybody has been shot. early reports were of shots fired on the second floor of this large facility. trace gallagher bringing in new details. what are you learning, trace? >> the patients you see down there are told those are not anybody involved. they were moved from an area of the hospital that was of some concern. we're getting reports that the shooter, if in fact there's an active shooter and they issue what is called a code white about 15 minutes ago, which is code for an active shooter. they said this is no longer an
active shooter situation. so if there is an active shooter in the hospital, we're told it was on the second floor. social media has a lot of reports of people hiding in closets because they're told this is on clearly full lookdown. we know there's swat teams that have surrounded the building and they sent a message out about maybe 30 minutes ago to baylor medical center next door telling baylor medical center, doctors and residents cannot go to ben taub because of the active shooter situation. looks like they're rushing people out. it's our indication these are not people that are injured. they're existing patients that are being moved because of their own safety. again, on the second floor, this is ben taub. there's about 486 beds in there. it is really one of the preeminent trauma centers in the houston area. it's about maybe four miles from downtown. anybody that knows the houston area would know the zoo is in
that area, the children's museum and rice university is also very near there. you can see kind of the demeanor of the police outside of the hospital, which gives us an indication that they're not hiding because there's no defensive position that maybe the situation is not as bad as it was 30 or 40 minutes ago. we're gathering information, they're moving people out of the areas of concern because the reports were code white inside ben taub hospital, which means there's an active shooter scenario. we're still trying to see if that's the it's -- the case. shep? >> shepard: the folks are on stretchers and going to a separate area. are they going back in the hospital? it doesn't appear so. it appears they're making room for more patients.
that's an iv stand or a stand of some sort to hold fluids for a patients. doctors putting their hair up and a number of people have been scrubbed down for this process. reports came in at 2:00 central time, which is about 39 minutes ago. since then, these pictures right now are from ktrk, which is abc 13. our network news affiliate is reporting as many as 200 officers and personnel are making their way toward the hospital. the vast majority have made it there. in addition, they have been sending out new information from police who are describing this singularly as an active shooter situation. but the actions of the police department suggest there may very well have been an active shooter situation, it doesn't appear that's the case at the moment. we'll have to wait more to find out. this is a staging area outside
the hospital. trace mentioned it's by rice, houston zoo, the children's hospital. easy access for a level 1 trauma center in this enormous and sprawling city with loop after loop of highways all around it, this is the spot where people need critical care. in addition, this is a world renowned trauma center. if you've been shot or been in a horrible car wreck and your life is in jeopardy, the world always is if they can get you here, if they can get you in this houston health center to ben taub, to the emergency services there and you're still alive, your chances as good as anywhere in the world. they're excellent at what they do. today it appears they're caught up in the middle of a situation, the kind of thing they normally
treat. whether anyone has been shot is a guessing game and nothing more right now. what we can report to you is what authorities have reported to us. they have reports of a shooting on the second floor of this hospital. there's always kinds of reports all over the internet what this has been. none of them match. sometimes they're just made up. we'll tell you what is official and that is from authorities that they have a report of an active shooter situation. that was at 2:00 central time, 41 minutes ago. now they moved a lot of patients out of the hospital as is clear. you can see a news crew on the bottom right-hand side of the screen. a guy there interviewing folks on scene. we have crews on the ground waiting to find out the situation in the hospital. as we showed you a minute ago with the flooding on the west coast, san jose, the rescue workers doing their dead-level best to make sure nobody loses
their lives, now the critical care workers and everybody else is making sure that the patients are safe. we've just gotten new word from the hospital through the authorities, houston police say they're searching this hospital. so for there's no reports of any injuries because of any gun fire at all. again, if you get a report of a shooting inside a hospital, you'd have to treat it as an active shooter situation. that's what they have done. people are all outside of the hospital. 2:42 p.m. so much of life has been disrupted in the hospital as a result of the reports. the thing we're not 100% sure of is exactly what happened. just gotten -- you can see the officer going into the hospital there with a gun drawn, a long gun. it was on the left-hand side of your screen now that doesn't suggest anything except that police or that law enforcement officer was in a defensive mode
and who wouldn't be with this record out there. what we don't know is whether they have been able to apprehend anyone or find anyone that might have matched this description or if this was some sort of false alarm which has grown into something large. you can see the number of police officers behind the police car there, m-54 standing in the background and appear they're not in the line of fire there. they have to treat things in that matter unless and until they realize the situation is diffused. with the officers taking cover behind their cars, they're behind vehicles where there's no danger. this is not how they would normally act. if they're sure nothing is happening in there. the all-clear has not been given. no reports of any injuries due to any shootings. this is according to kviv, our station there. talked to a witness that didn't hear any gun shots. just yelling "code white" which
means active shooter situation. there's confusion on the ground. patients are outside. as many as 200 law enforcement officers have made their way to ben taub hospital in southwest houston. continuing coverage of this breaking news after this. .. but with added touches you can't get everywhere else, like claim free rewards... or safe driving bonus checks. oh yes.... even a claim satisfaction guaranteeeeeeeeeee! in means protection plus unique extras only from an expert allstate agent. it's good to be in, good hands.
bringing more patients out. you can see the police officers here behind their vehicles. there's a hospital to the left on the camera. the hospital to the right. the report has been of shots fired on the second floor. new information that we have, there were some children that were at the hospital touring today. the children are safe. we have no reports of anyone being shot at the hospital. certainly 200 officers have shown up there. from the aerial view from ktrk from abc 13 from the houston area, from the aerial shots you were able to see what appeared to be a staging area for all of the patients that were in the hospital. that is still -- this is kriv, fox 26 in houston. you can see where they brought them out of the hospital and more and more continue to come. our texas correspondent, casey stegall is watching this.
casey, no reports of anybody hurt at all. >> that's right, shepard. we just got off with the houston police department before i got on air with you. officials there say there's no reports of anyone being wounded. in other words, all of the police are going door-to-door, floor to floor and they're going through every square inch of that hospital. you could think in typically situations like this, if a victim is laid out on the floor, something of that nature, the police would be able to radio that information out rather quickly. we haven't gotten that world yet. it's a fluid situation. hpd says it was a report of someone hearing what they thought were gun shots. nobody physically seeing any victims in the hospital or anything like that. i also did speak to a public relations person from the
hospital system itself. that individual tells me that the people are being removed, evacuated from the area. that's why you see a large number of people coming out. otherwise, the hospital itself deferring to police on this. police didn't have more, shep. >> shepard: casey stegall watching from the area. our crews are on the ground, watching in the big wall. treatments appear to continue and we're also watching in san jose, california where the flooding is continuing to rise all across this area. live pictures coming in from san jose. you can see street after street rescues are underway, even as we speak. this is a live rescue. workers pushing families along in street after street? san jose. sometimes you can see the cars under water in small areas. they pull out and you realize it's only a block. here it goes for block after
block after block. these boat rescues are happening about everywhere you look. in south, in the carmel area, hillsides vanishing. in los angeles, the rains continue. extreme weather coverage continues after this. cking resus that i'm 26% native american. i had no idea. it's opened up a whole new world for me. ♪ by simply enjoying it.
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places where there's windows. there appears to be more movement than before. our apologies from the breakup in the video from kriv. that's fox 26 for the houston area. an active shooter situation. no injuries of any kind reported. we're watching monterey, california where there's a weather alert and breaking news unfolding before our eyes. this has been developing for the last day. now it's quite serious. mandatory evacuation issued in monterey county yesterday. in fact, just about 22 hours ago, the carmel river hit flood stage. really started to peak last night. residents were forced to evacuate in the evening. now water rescues for those that did not evacuate across wide areas of san jose, california. this was affecting residents in salinas, carmel and the royal oaks area. highway 17 drivers affected by
trees in the road. boat after boat, street after street, getting people that did not heed the evacuation orders to higher ground. emergency workers, volunteers have been helping there. in the carmel area, records of mudslides. we had pictures earlier from the sheriff's department there in -- around salinas, but in monterey county really. this is new video that just came in to rescues that took place at people's houses and apartments and condos. parentsly -- apparently some people did not evacuate last night. the rain is expected to continue the next 1 1/2 days or so. a one-daybreak and more storms for the weekend. so where there was drought, there's flooding and mudslides. we're working to update you on breaking news out of houston. neil cavuto is next. the final bell is sounding on
wall street. another big day for traders down south in manhattan. the dow is up 119 points on this session. all arrows pointing up. i'm shepard smith. stay with us.
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capricious, ash tear or made sense. the supreme court in boumedin struck it down saying it was not an adequate substitute for habeas. >> that's correct, senator. >> your role was to find out a way to engage congress on the detainee treatment because it was your view that congress, being involved, would strengthen the president's hand? >> as a lawyer? >> yes. >> i was not a policymaker but i did advise. >> as a lawyer. >> as did many others. there were very other many fine lawyers, too, senator, who advised the administration that engaging congress would be a good idea, because we had read our youngstown and our justice jackson. >> any lawyer i think who understands this area of the law would suggest the president is stronger when he has congressional support. the signing statement. is it fair to say there was a conflict between the vice president's office and other parts of the bush administration about what the signing statement
should say or look like? >> that's my recollection, and that's about all i can recall. >> i remember it very well because vice president cheney's signing statement was going to be we have an inherent authority to do whatever we think we need to do and there were a lot of other people saying no, you don't have the authority just to set aside a law. you have to have a reason to object to it. so i just want the public to understand that, when it comes to this man, i've seen him in action, in very complicated emotional matters, where we had one group of people who could give a damn about the terrorist and other people who wanted to criminalize what i thought was a real world fight and we tried to find thatide ound, and in a 5-4 decision, t supreme court struck down my proposal, and we fixed it later with a
huge bipartisan vote, so that every enemy combatant today has a habeas proceeding where the government has to prove you're an enemy combatant and if they reach that conclusion you can be held under the law of war as long as you're a threat to our nation. is that a fair summary of where we're at? >> that's my understanding, senator. along the way we, your legislation did prevail in the d.c. circuit and the supreme court. of course it was a close call, it was 5-4 as i recall. >> that proves that five people can be wrong. whul i disagree i certainly respect the court's decision. >> you're not going to get me to comment on that neither. >> not even going to try. the bottom line here is there will be more legislation coming regarding the role of the government and gathering information, but from sort of a civics point of view, which senator sass is going to take
you through, there's a difference between the law of war and domestic criminal law. do you agree with that? >> yes, senator. >> that a common criminal, the goal of the law is to prosecute a crime that one individual or group committed against another individual or groups. that's correct? >> that's right. >> the law of war is about winning the war? >> well, senator, there are -- >> how you fight the war -- >> there are as you know, rules about that, too. >> right. >> laws about that. >> yes and we're fighting an enemy who has no rules that would do anything, and i've been in the camp i don't want to be like them, i this i that's their weakness and the strongest thing we could do is stand up for a process that stood the test of time, which is intelligence gathering and a humane way, because they would cut our heads off doesn't make us weak because 'tut the heads off. it actually mak us stronger over the arc of time, so that's my commercial about that. so there will be more litigat n
litigation, and there nare no bd guys or girls when it comes to challenging precedent, do you agree people have a right to do that. >> to challenge precedent? >> yes. >> every person is allowed to come to court to bring whatever claim they have. that's how our system works. >> that's how brown versus board of education came about. >> exactly right. >> let's talk about roe v. wade. what is the holding of roe v. wade, in 30 seconds? [ laughter ] >> the holding of roe versus wade in 30 seconds, senator, is that a woman has a right to an abortion. it developed a trimester scheme in roe that specified when the state interests and when the women's interests tend to prevail. >> okay. so let me just break it down. the court said that there is a right to privacy, that the government can't interfere with that right in the first trimester. beyond the first trimester, the
government has more interest as the baby develops, is that fair to say? >> that was the scheme set forth. >> i think medical viability was the test that the court used. >> well, that's the test that the court came around and applied in casey, in 1992. >> okay. >> and viability became more of the touchstone rather than a rigid -- >> is it fair to say that medical viability 1992 may be different than it is in 2022 medically? >> senator, i'm not a scientist or a doctor. >> i would suggest that medical viability may change as science progresses, so you may have people coming in and saying in light of scientific medical changes, let's look at when medical viability occurs. that's one example of litigation that may come before you. i have legislation that says that 20 weeks, the unborn child is able to feel excruciating pain and the theory of the
legislation is that the state has a compelling interest to protect an unborn child from excruciating pain, which is caused by an abortion. i'm not asking you to agree with my legislation. i am saying that i am developing, we're one of seven nations that allow wholesale on demand unlimited abortion at 20 weeks, the fifth month of pregnancy. i'd like to get out of that club, but we're going to ha a debate in this body, in the house, about whether or not we want to change the law to give an unborn child protection against excruciating pain at 20 weeks, because you can, the standard medically is that if you operate on an unborn child at 20 weeks the medical protocols are such that you have to provide anesthesia because you don't want to hurt the child in the process of trying to save the child. so medical practice is such when you operate on an unborn child at 20 weeks, which you can do, you have to apply anesthesia and
my theory is let's look at it the other way, should you allow an abortion on demand of a child that can feel excruciating pain, is that what we want to be as a nation? does that run afoul of roe v. wade. i want to make the argument there is a compelling state interest at that stage of the pregnancy to protect the child against death that is going to be excruciatingly painful. you don't have to say a word. i'm just letting everybody know that if this legislation passes, it will be challenged before you, and you will have to look at a new theory of how the state could protect the unborn, and here's what i think. you will read the briefs, look at the facts and make a decision. am i fair to conclude that? >> senator, i can promise you no more than that and i guarantee you no less than that, in every single case that comes before me no matter what the subject matter. >> this is a situation that may develop over time because 70% of
the american people side with me on the idea that at 0 weeks we should not be in the club of seven nations that allow abortion on demand because that's in the fifth month and that doesn't make us a better nation. there will be people on the other side saying no, that's an emotion of roe and it will go to the court, maybe if it ever passes here and the only reason i mention this is that everybody who wants to challenge whatever in court deserves a person like you. person like you, no matter what pressures are plied to you, will say over and over again, i want to hear what both sides have to say, i want to read their legal arguments, look at the facts and i will decide. that to me is reassuring and that's exactly the same answer i got from sotomayor and kagan. no more, no less, and we can talk forever about what you may or may not do.
if you do anything different than that, i think you'd be unworthy of the job. now, about what's going on in the country with president trump whether you like him or you don't he is president, but you have said several times that he is not above the law. is that correct? >> yes, senator. >> you told senator leahy if there was a law passed a muslim could not serve in the military you believe based on current law that would be an illegal act. >> senator, yes, i see that having all sorts of constitutional problems under current law. >> so if we have laws on the book that prevent waterboarding, do you agree with me that the detainee treatment act prevents waterboarding? >> yes, senator, that's my recollection of it firmly. >> so in case president trump is
didn't agree with president obama, but i understood why he picked sotomayor and kagan, and i hope you can understand why president trump picked neil gorsuch, and hope you'll be happy with that, because i am. >> thank you, senator. >> we will recess until 12:45. >> all right, there you heard it, with a joke about who else president trump might have chosen, whether or not it would be a television judge or a tv figure. nonetheless, he has chosen neil gorsuch of the state of colorado, who has gotten along very well during the morning session. remember the ground rules here. every senator gets 30 minutes of questioning, so this is going to take hours more to spool out. here we are 12:12 eastern time, in what is normally andrea mitchell's dayside shift.
we'll be getting to andrea, she's among our guests standing by to talk to us about what we've witnessed. ari melber from the legal side of things has been watching along with us. ari, i think the expression in english is "it's tough to lay a glove on this guy." >> i didn't see a single glove laid on him. he performed himself admirably, calmly at almost all times and with detail, but never much candor about his views, which many experts would say he's not supposed to. anyone who has been watching your coverage, brian, over this morning would know this was a highly substantive discussion. we've talked a lot about what's abnormal in washington these days and the fbi unusual hearing yesterday. this was a normal and even proper vetting of a potential supreme court nominee. the issues i count that were discussed, the travel ban, guns, torture, abortion, federal power, money in politics, guantanamo, obamacare, and a broader sort of roving discussion of judicial
if the senate in fact does vote on neil gorsuch and he is confirmed as mitch mcconnell pledged to do by april 7th, chuck grassley, the chairman of the committee says maybe april 3rd, then gorsuch would be on the court in time to hear the last couple of weeks of oral argument at the end of april, but he could also be there theoretically in time to hear an appeal of the president's executive order on immigration, if it gets to the supreme court. one of the hawaii cases, one of the two cases that, in which judges have said that the president's order is unconstitutional is from hawaii. the chief lawyer who argued that case is neil catchall, a former chief solicitor in the obama administration, solicitor general's office. he's also the same one who introduced and glowingly praised neil gorsuch yesterday. so it's a small town in that sense. >> pete williams in our
washington bureau, watching all of these various backs and forths with us, the confirmation hearings of judge gorsuch. we want to bring back jennifer palmie palmieri, former communications director for hillary clinton, who has been very patient waiting to come back on the air with us. jennifer, you wanted to talk about something that is actually a very generous and magnanimous view that you hold about the campaign that you lost to, the trump presidential campaign, specifically the way they took on judicial nominations. >> yes, i do. early on in the hearing, it was brute up that judge gorsuch was on a list of potential nominees that the trump campaign put out over the summer, examples of who he would appoint to the supreme court and i very much remember that day, because we knew and the clinton campaign just how potent an issue the supreme
court is for a conservative for evangelical voters and trump promised judge gorsuch he's never spoke within donald trump about abortion, but trump promised many times that he would only appoint somebody who would overturn roe v. wade and this issue is so important, i think it probably put him over the top and pennsylvania, wisconsin, michigan, states that clinton narrowly lost that passion is enough to put it over the top. i remember looking at polls after that letter came out, two times, with the list of judges that he would appoint and again trump promised to only appoint somebody who would overtun roe v. wade and we saw republicans come home the first time it didn't sustain and over the summer and he lost
evangelical voters. in the end we saw that start to close after that third debate. we really think it was about the supreme court. i think it's more important to his base that he gets judge gorsuch confirmed because he believes he will overturn roe v. wade, a vote to do so, than it is to get health care done. that's how strongly people feel about it. >> jen, that's interesting. did you think that is something they owned? was there a reciprocal move you could have made, even if hindsight, or did you just think this was kind of their lane and territory they had cleared out? >> yes. >> and there was nothing you could do to match it? >> you know, we had the same passion on our side, right? we had the same passion of people who want to, that are concerned about appointing a justice that would do anything that would undernine roe v. wade so it's not as if you don't see the passion for us, but i think on our side it was the combination particularly in those states, michigan, wisconsin and pennsylvania to
have a lot of catholic voters, a lot of evangelical voters swle. combination of that plus what happened with the comey letter, what happened with wikileaks and the emails that ate up so much of our press time, those factors combined ultimately cost us this election, but i don't think that people appreciate just how important it is to his standing that he get this confirmation through with his own supporters, and also that i take judge gorsuch at his word he didn't talk to trump about this view about his views about roe v. wade but as my twitter feed during the hearing has shown, and certainly the talking points are being sent to me by democrats on the hill, reminding everyone the heritage foundation signed off on this, on judge gorsuch as well as part of that letter. no one would do that if they didn't think they could count on his views to be where they want them to be when it comes to women's reproductive rights. >> so far certainly in a television era he has been
centralcasting federal judge candidate for the supreme court. jennifer palmieri former xhoun ki communications director for hillary clinton thank you for your patience and joining us on the air. we'll fit a break in. we have many, many more guests waiting to share with us their opinion of how this morning session went, day two, but entering the heart of the order, where the confirmation hearing for judge neil gorsuch is concerned. right back after this. >> he didn't ask you to overall roe v. wade? >> no, sir. >> what would you have done if he had asked? >> senator, i would have walked out the door. it's not what judges do. okay, i don't do it at that end of pennsylvania avenue, and they shouldn't do it at this end either, rantfully. respectfully. ffect. they also know you need to get your annual check-up. ffect.
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hearings, and lord knows at this pace what tomorrow will bring. kasie hunt was on capitol hill for the president's comings and goings and remains there, and kasie, you mentioned appropriately before the meeting that members of the house have their problems with leakage and what leakage has come out of the president's session? >> we've had a number of republicans we talked to over the course of the morning about what the president said behind closed doors. he actually did not spend the majority of his time talking about health care. he kind of ran through as he is want to do, he talked about his crowd size in louisville last night, he did tie that in to health care. if we don't get this done we're not going to have crowds like that. he ticked througthe other things and says he's done in the initial days of his administration, and he also said on health care i think somewhat critically that he thinks that many of these republicans would face primary challenges if they vote no on this legislation, that this is their historic
chance to repeal and replace obamacare to follow through on that critical campaign promise. brian there's still and one of the most important things around this visit for house leadership and for republicans is about the optics. it's about feeling like the president is taking the time to actually come up from the white house to capitol hill, doesn't happen very often, usually works the other way, and to stye them yes, this is what i am behind, because the reality is a lot of these members are going to have potential political problems if they vote in favor of this bill. that's why you're seeing in particular moderate republicans who might actually be in swing districts, if the president's approval rating is down where it is he's got all of these issues with the fbi hanging over his head, what is necessarily the reason why you would walk the political plank as tom cotton put it, over in the senate, to do this on behalf of the president or on behalf of leadership. so the reality here, this is paul ryan's bill but going to be
on president trump to close the deal here, and i think if they can't get this done on thursday, it goes to the floor and fails, i think that would be an incredible difficult moment for both the president and for the leadership here, even if they simply full back, because they know they don't have the votes, that would be a serious blow to his agenda so there's quite a bit at stake going into the end of this week, brian. >> kasie hunt up on the hill where i should specify i was talking about people leaking details of meetings. kasie, thanks. let's go to andrea mitchell who is usually on the air this hour, every day on this very network and andrea, such an interesting two-day period of hearings. >> yes. >> here we are on live coverage in our in studio inevitable game of who does he look like. we have decided gorsuch is somewhere between pete carroll and tom bergeron. yesterday we saw mr. comey playing the role of eliott ness.
is a neck-snapping transition and yet as casey reminds us, we've got real legislation coming up before this week is out in what is only the early stages still of this trump administration. >> exactly, and the comey testimony yesterday, brian, was so overwhelming in its impact. its political impact. it's going to affect health care. it's going to affect the thursday vote potentially. it's going to be now that we know there has been since july a counter intelligence investigation that could reach all the way to the white house. it involves the trump campaign, trump associates, whether or not there was collusion with the kremlin, and the relationship of this administration with moscow, which is another issue i want to get to in just a moment, and that can affect everything. so despite the i think ham-handed attempts by the white house to push back against it and te my reality the grownups on the hill in both parties know that this say very big deal and
this will not be over any time soon. it could be a cloud over this white house for months, if not years, because these counter intelligence investigations go for a long time, as comey said it's only just getting started and at the very moment when the question of the u.s. and this administration's relationship with russia is front and center, as you first reported last night on the 11th hour, we get word that the new secretary of state is not going to go to nato. this only exacerbates the very damaging meeting with chancellor merkel on friday, and how badly that went. the fact that the president was questioning germany's commitment to nato, which is front and center. she is the strongest economic and military partner we have. the fact as you also were interviewing former ambassador from uk, peter west last night and he was talking about how awkward the relationship is with britain because of the white
house pushback suggesting that false claim of a wiretap by the president against former president obama could have originated in british intelligence, not true. no apology offered or received. so therere a lot of issues here and today to return to gore sufficie, i think that this has been a slam dunk in terms of his initial q&as. you'll see some of the more intensive questioning but they have not as you put it laid a glove on him. senator feinstein and senator grassley both under some pressure, certainly the democrats under a lot of pressure because of what happened with merritt garland, and they are getting criticized by the, you know, left wing of the party for not going after him harder but they have not been able to, you know, shake this guy. he is obviously the consummate witness and a good performer in the hot seat there. what senator feinstein was
particularly going after his role in the justice department in the bush white house when the torture issues were up, because she was the chairman of senate intelligence and the sponsor of that torture report, which was so controversial, which the cia so deeply resented, and he in answer to her question said that he was on the gentler side of the advisories as to how to roll back the mccain torture guidelines, so that in his writings as a lawyer in the justice department, are very much going to be examined here by feinstein, who as you know the ranking democrat on this committee, but so far, he has not been shaken. >> andrea mitchell in washington, stand by. i want to bring in someone you and i both know and that is know ma tottenberg of npr fame and know that tottenberg fame. >> hi, guys. >> hey. how about andrea's last comment there, that this judge is the consummate witness, and ours that he is out of central
casting? >> he certainly looks the part and they haven't been able to get much out of him, but i would have to say that i think he's not a complete natural. he seems extremely practiced to me, and that isn't going to hurt him. what would hurt him is if he actually answered some of these questions. it's given the democrats a platform to go after republicans, not just about the garland nomination, but trump, the way trump put together his list, farming it out to two conservative organizations to help to make up the list for him instead of doing it himself essentially, and having his own justice department or his own advisers do it, so i don't think it's totally worthless for democrats but they don't have the votes. it's just really simple. they don't have the votes. >> nina, going back, looking at the modern era of the court, let's go as far back as say suitor or brennan or even
justice white, whose name was already invoked this morning. there have been ideologs and non-ideologs, people who have changed before our eyes organically, famously, justice brennan was, eisenhower's greatest regret as president. where do you put judge gorsuch on the spectrum of ideologues, people who have a fixed north star before arriving on the court? >> i actually don't know. if you look at his society so to speak, his mother, his friends, how he got on this list, you'd have to say he's going to be a very, very conservative judge, but he is a very well respected judge also, and it's very different to be on an appeals court where you're carrying out the law as established by the supreme court, and when you have the chance to change it. he was, as i said, a little
disingenuous in some of his answers today. for example, when he was, as andrea pointed out, when he was asked about some of the, his memoranda and the torture memo thing and he said i haven't seen that. they've been in the newspapers. clearly his aides, his handlers have that material, so it can't be that he hasn't seen that material. he also said when asked about for example campaign finance law, he said that there was a lot of room to regulate expenditures and there really, i have to say as somebody who reads these opinions, i think the supreme court has said congress cannot regulate expenditures and cannot even really define corruption, what is corruption beyond what is almost a bribe, a quit pro we could, so i think he softened what the law in fact it in order not to answer some things
directly. but he did it skillfully, and i don't know the answer to your question, brian. is he an ideologue, how much, i have no idea. >> that's probably a good thing, know ta totenburg you have by my count no reason to think senator grassley will be wrong you have six minutes to get back downstairs from the sky box into your seat in the hearing room. thank you so much. we love havingou and you were very good patient waiting for us. >> thank you. >> nina totenberg of npr. we'll be back and rejoin the course of the hearing live in and progress right after this. >> i have no difficulty ruling against or for any party base other than based on what the law and the facts in the particular case require. there's no such thing as a republican judge or a democratic judge. we just have judges. in in country. i leave all the other stuff at home.
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confirmation hearing of judge gorsuch to the supreme court. among our guests who have been so patient and waiting for all this testimony, two commercial breaks and all of our talking is former rnc chairman michael steele. mr. chairman i'd love to what you what i asked know ta totenberg. how much of an ideologue do you find judge gorsuch? >> not much. he doesn't wear it on his sleeve, one of the strengths going into this and why it's going to be as we've seen so far and probably for the remainder of the hearing so difficult for democrats to lay a glove on him. he understands where that bright line test is for a judicial nominee, in answering the types of questions that would project into the future how he would decide a case or reflect back on the past what he thinks of past jurispruden jurisprudence. so he's found that sweet spot anwearing it comfortably, if you will and i think the rest of the afternoon will be interesting to see how effective
the democrats can be at getting close to pushing some buttons with the judge. >> where real politics are concerned, michael, it would take a lot, correct? >> yes. >> to turn this man away. >> it would be. i mean, i've said for some time now, brian, this is not the hill the democrats want to have this fight on. this judicial nomination by president trump changes nothing on the court. the ideological, philosophical balance, if you will, remains the same. the real test for both parties will come in a subsequent future nomination if that should ever happen but this right now is more for democrats about merritt garland than it is about judge gorsuch and that's what animates the base of the democrats politically and puts democrats in the senate on the stick trying to figure out how do we navigate this.
>> david suitor, people change. they change organically. this is a 49-year-old father of two teenage daughters who lives in a culturally liberal part of the country in boulder, colorado. people just change. >> they do. if you notice the judges who "changed" on the court are republican nominated judges so the reality of it is, in the end of it we don't know what we're ultimately going to get with this judge, as a justice, and that we'll see probably 10, 12 years from now. >> michael steele, thank you very much. into the hearing room we go, senator kur bin of illinois starting the questioning. we'll be back during breaks. >> you weren't involved in the drafting of the mccain section of the bill on the treatment amendment. >> senator, that wouldn't fit quite with my recollection. >> please.
>> my re-election is senator mccape and senator graham wrote the legislation with input from the department of defense and the department of justice and a whole lot of others besides. and i was one voice among a great many and that in terms of when it was struck down, handon held the detainee treatment act only applied prospectively and then several years later, gosh, i want to say it was 2008 maybe the court came back around in boumedin. >> what i'm driving at is the mccain section relative to cruel inhuman and degrading treatment and i assume or i hope you've had a chance to glance at the emails that senator feinstein gave you. you said in your email, you wanted a signing statement to the effect that the view is mccain is best read as
essentially codifying existing interrogation policies. what interrogation policies did you think the mccain amendment was essentially codifying? >> senator, i haven't had a chance to look at that. sorry, i scarfed down a sandwich over the break and i'd be happy to read it, but i'm not sure what i can answer you here sitting off the top of my head. it's been, it was 12 years ago and i'm doing the best i can with my recollection. my recollection -- it >> i'm trying to get this leap from your of this email i understand over 100,000 pages of emails. >> exactly. i think the department of justice produced something like 200,000 pages of stuff. >> i will concede that point, but your lack of memory at the moment and contrast that with the mccain bill, nt that you which i supported outlawed waterboarding.
>> waterboarding was still happening and you were saying in your email i want to essentially codify existin interrogation policy. there's an inconsistency there whh we have to wait until the second round to resolve. >> i -- okay. >> okay. let me read something to you and ask you for reaction is a statement that was made about eight days ago by a congressman named steve king of iowa, and here's what he said. "you cannot rebuild your civilization with somebody else's babies. you got to keep your birth rate up and you need to teach your children your values and doing so you can grow your population, you can strengthen your culture, you can strengthen your way of life." the reaction to that statement was overwhelming. civil rights leader congressman john lewis called it racist.
the republican house speaker paul ryan said he clearly disagreed with king's comments, went on to say the speaker clearly disagrees and believes america's long history of inclusiveness is one of its great strengths. what would your reactionstateme? >> senator, i can talk about my record, and i can tell you that as a federal judge, when a defendant comes to court with an allegation that the sentencing judgents based on his ethnic iity, me an my colleagues, my colleagues and i have removed that judge from the case. i can tell you that, when an immigration lawyer fails to provide economy counsel time and time again, i've sent him to the bar for discipline. i can tell you when it comes to access to justice, i've written on this topic, i've worked on this topic for the last six
years, together with many wonderful people on the rules committee, trying to make our civil litigation system cheaper and faster, because it takes too long for people to exercise their seventh amendment liberties and i can tell you together with my colleagues, we found the level of representation of inmates on death row was unacceptable in our circuit, a whole bunch of us, i can't too much credit, tried to do something about it. i can tell you that when prisoners come to court pro se handwritten complaints and something that might be meritorious in them, a point re. >> can you describe your relationship with professor john fennis? >> sure, he was my dissertation supervisor. >> when did you first meet him? >> hmm, whenever i went to oxford, so it would have been 199 --
>> 2? >> well, it could have been 2 or 3, somewhere in there. >> and what was his relationship with you or you with him? >> he was my dissertation supervisor, and i would describe that as a relationship between teacher and student, and he was a very generous teacher, particularly generous with his red ink on my papers. i remember sitting next to the fire in his ok fordoffice, something out of "harry potter" and he always had a coal fireplace burning and sometimes whether i was being raked over the coals. he did not let an argument that i was working on go unchallenged from any direction. >> so that was over 20 years ago that you first met him? >> whatever it is, it is, yes. >> do you still have a friendship, a relationship with him? >> i, last time i saw him, gosh, when he -- i know i saw him when
he retired, and there was a party held in his honor, and i remember seeing him then and that was a couple years ago. >> did he know you were from it must have at some point come out in our conversations, i don't know. >> and do you recall saying some words of gratitude for his help in writing your book? >> he did not write my book, senator. he did not help write my book. i wrote my book and certainly expressed gratitude to my dissertation supervisor in a book that's basically my dissertation. >> i think you were quoted as saying in 2006, you thanked fennis for his "kind support through draft after draft." >> and there were a lot of drafts, senator. i mean, golly, that was a very tough degree. that was the most rigorous
academic experience of my life, and i had to pass not just him, but an internal examiner and an external examiner, and that was hard. that was hard. >> in 2011, when notre dame ran a symposium to celebte his work, yo recall your study under him and you said "it was a time when legal giants roamed among oxford spires." >> oh, yeah, yeah. >> you called him one of the great scholars. >> well, and oxford has a stable and it's part of the reason why it was such a privilege. here is a kid from colorado and i got a scholarship to go to oxford. i'd never been to england, to europe before and at oxford at that time, john fennis, joe razz, ronald dworkin, h.l.a. hart was still alive then. >> i'll read a couple of statements from professor fennis. in 2009 he wrote about england's
population, he said england's population had "largely given up bearing children at a rate consistent with their community's medium term survi l survival." he warned they were on a path to quote their own replacement as a people by other people's more or less regardless of the incomers acompassibility of psychology, culture, religion, political ideas or visions or the worth or viciousness of those ideas and ambition answer went on to say "european states in the early 21st century move into a trajectory of demographic and cultural decay, population transfer and replacement by a kind of reversed colonization." had you ever reared that before? >> nope. >> had you heard it before? >> no, not to my recollection. >> could y distinguish with what he said and what congressman steve king said? >> senator i'm not here to answer for mr. king or professor fennis. >> i'm talking about your reaction to these things. do you feel that what professor fennis wrote about purity of
culture and such is something that we should condemn or congratula congratulate? >> senator, before i expressed any view on that i'd want to read it and i'd want to read it from brieginning to end, not an excerpt and senator, i've had a lot of professors. i've been blessed with some wonderful professors, and i didn't agree with everything they said, and i wouldn't expect them to agree with everything i've said. >> let me ask you this specific one. it was 1993, and you were at oxford and this is when i believe you first met this professor. professor fennis was tapped by the then colorado solicitor general timothy timkovich to help defend a 1992 state constitutional amendment that broadly restricted the state from protecting gay, lesbian and bisexual people from discrimination. during the course of the deposition, which you gave in support of that effort, fennis argued that anti-pathy toward
lgbt people, specifically toward gay sex was rooted not just in religious tradition, western law, and society at large. he referred to homosexuality as beastality, in the course of this as well. were you aware of that? >> senator, i know he testified in the case. i can't say sitting here i recall specifics of his testimony or that he gav a deposition >> i guess the reason i'm raising this is, this is a man who apparently had an impact on your life, certainly your academic life, and i'm trying to figure out where we can parse his views from your views, what impact he had on you as a student, what impact he has on you today with his views. >> well i guess, senator, i think the best evidence is what i've written. i've written over, gosh, written or joined over 6 million words as a federal appellate judge. i've written a couple of books. i've been a lawyer and a judge
for 25 or 30 years. that's my record, and i guess i'd ask you to respectfully to look at my credentials and my record and some of the examples i've given you are from my record about the capital habeas work, about the access to justice. i've spoken about overcriminalization publicly. those are things i've done, senator. >> and what about lgbtq individuals? >> well, senator, there are, what about them? >> the point i made is -- >> they're people. and you know -- >> of course but what you said earlier was that you have a record of speaking out, standing up for those minorities who you believe are not being treated fairly. can you point to statements or cases you've ruled on relative to that class? >> senator, i've tried to treat each case and each person as a person, not a this kind of person, not a that kind of
person, a person, equal justice under law. it is a radical promise in the history of mankind. >> does that refer to sexual orientation as well? >> the supreme court of the united states has held that single sex marriage is protected by the constitution. >> judge, would you agree that if an employer were to ask female job applicants about their family plans, but not male applicants, that would be evidence of sex discrimination prohibited by title seven of the civil right act? >> i'd agree with you it's highly inappropriate. >> you don't believe it's prohibited? >> senator, it sounds like a potential hypothetical case that might be a case for controversy i might have to decide and i wouldn't want to prejudge it sitting here at the confirmation table. i can tell you it would be inappropriate. >> inappropriate. do you believe there are ever situations where the cost to an employer of maternity leave can justify an employer asking only
like global warming. we can't do that if people feel embarrassed to be associated with the united states. you combine that with the fact that the state department has essentially been neutered, e s eviscerated by this administration thus far and watching in real time as america and america's image withdraws from the world. >> do you know any republican senator or member of the house who's a republican, any party member of any party who believes the president believes he was wiretapped, who even believes he believes it? >> i don't think anybody knows exactly what donald trump believes and what he doesn't believe. i think what's scary to many republicans is that they've had the opportunity to walk this back and they're putting not only the presidency and the reputation of the presidency, but the reputation of the entire country at risk, the longer that this floats out there. the reality is is congress can ask the department of justice as to whether there's a wiretap, bul but if there's an active investigation, the department of justice may not tell us, so its difficult to get to the bottom of this -- >> what do you mean, an active investigation -- wait a minute.
>> well senator mccain, i think, is from the sane era of politics. here's how some other top republicans reacted including senate majority leader mitch mcconnell and chair of the senate and house intelligence committees. >> i think we have an existing committee, the intelligence committee, looking at all aspects of what may have been done last year related to the russians or the campaigns and we'll leave it there. >> have you seen any evidence of that? >> mr. leader -- >> no, i haven't. >> we don't have anything today that would send us in that direction, but that's not to say that we might not find something. >> i have not seen that evide e evidence. as you know, i think a lot of that was maybe a little bit -- the multiple tweets were perhaps a little bit strung together. as you all know, the president is a neophyte to politics. he's been doing this a little over a year. and i think a lot of the things
that he says, you guys sometimes take literally. sometimes he doesn't have 27 lawyers and staff looking at when what he does. >> what do you make of that? that's a cover? that's explaining a guy's behavior? it's like he's -- he's treating the president as if he's in a crib and wants his pacy. he talks about him like he doesn't know what a tweet is. he knows how to tweet better than all of us. he gets up at 6:00 and does it. he accused the previous president of wiretapping him. there's nothing complicated about this. why doesn't mr. nunes, chairman of the committee, call up the fbi director, said was anybody asked for a fisa warrant on this? did anybody ask permission to wire this guy or not? end it. this is going to float out there for months and years. >> yeah, listen. i wouldn't tweet my 8-year-old like that. the fact is we would hope that an adult would occupy the oval office and we couldn't expectwo
team of 27 lawyers around him to decide whether he should falsely accuse the previous president of the united states of tapping his phones. that's a ridiculous standard. and in the end, yeah, it is pretty simple to get to the answer to this question. there is no evidence that barack obama tapped donald trump's phones because it didn't happen. and republicans right now could ask the questions necessary to get at least that answer. maybe we won't know if the fbi was or is investigating trump, but we can get the answer to that question, republicans can. >> okay. thank you very much, senator chris murphy of connecticut. well, there was troubling reporting in the "the new york times" today about president trump's mood swings last weekend. according to "the times," he was in high spirits after he fired off the posts, those tweets but midafternoon after returning from golf, he appeared to realize he had gone too far with his tweets although he still believed mr. obama had wiretapped him according to two people in trump's orbit. in some conversations that afternoon, the president sounded uncertain of the procedure for
obtaining a warrant for secret wiretaps on an american citizen so he didn't know how you would do it but said obama did it. anyway, meanwhile, we're getting reaction on former president obama's reaction to the news. according to nbc, our network, a source close to him, told nbc news, mr. obama rolled his eyes. and the "wall street journal" report, he was livid over the accusation that he bugged the republican campaign offices believing mr. trump was questioning both the integrity of the office of the president and mr. obama, himself. of course, he was. i'm joined by "the wall street journal's" carol pllee who wrot that article. and the "washington post's" phil rutger who's been all over this thing. carol, did you notice the way that this young, relatively young member of congress, nunes from california, i don't know much about the guy, treating the president like he's a little baby. you know, he gets a little upset once in a while, says things he really shouldn't and doesn't have the help of advisers like lawyers around him so he does things that really don't make
much sense, but we shouldn't blame him because he's a neophyte. he's a neophyte. >> yeah. there's definitely -- >> that's a defense. that's what a criticism looks like. >> there's -- that's the republicans -- the republicans -- >> why are so they -- >> they're greading him on a curve. >> they're helping him hide. by the way, boehner, when trump was running around saying obama was an illegal ill grant frmmig kenya, people asked him, tell your fellow members it's not true, he said i don't tell them how to think. this is the way they behave in the republican party today. they're so intimidated by this guy, trump, that they just cover for him. your thoughts. >> well, i think, yeah, the republicans don't want to get crossways with the president. >> why? >> they also -- >> why are they afraid of him? >> because they have flithings y would like to actually get done in congress and don't want to pick a fight with the president. and they also are taking -- they're aligning with the white house in terms of the cleanup of this where you have the white house saying, well, we don't -- look at it, we'll look into it
pane, you know, congress, take a look -- >> thal look into it. >> what happened, more importantly, what the democrats are doing, this winds up being a gift to them because you have people like schiff saying we're going to oblige him on his request, look into this. the white house is going to wind up getting all the things they didn't really want like hearings on this. and a further investigation into this. >> congress loves hearings. let's face it. they go on and on and on, get on tv, on and on and on. when do they get to a conclusion? >> a big one on march 20th. >> when you talk to white house officials as we were doing this week, this is the last thing they want to talk about. want to be talking about health care, tax reform, about angela merkel's visit next week, about all these other issues and stuck having -- >> how long have you been around? let me ask you a question about having to get flak for the president. i thought about what kind of job that would be, i think it would be a very difficult job. people like josh earnest know how to do the job well.
it's doable. i've never seen a press secretary have to deal with a president that's saying stuff he or she doesn't believe. i mean, really. spicer has -- ever since the crowd measurements back in january 20 -- he had to lie for the president which is a terrible word to do, but he had to do it. had to say, oh, yeah, 3 million to 4 million out there and all this. this time around he doesn't want to do that. he's saying, i'm telling you what the president says. then somebody asked yesterday, do you believe him? he said, that's a cute question. it's not a cute question. you ask the president's spokesperson if he or she believes what the president is saying. it's a reasonable question. >> he has really distanced himself from that, it's interesting to watch. he said, you know, if you ask him, what you zdo you think? he says it doesn't matter what you think. >> it does matter. >> we -- >> he says it's above my pay grade. that's a tired old line. you're the spokesman for the whou white house. it's not above your pay grade. >> it's your job. he got into the job. decided to bt -- >> he doesn't want to have his
career ruined, i can tell. he's pulling away from trump. he is not lying for him. >> this is a pattern in donald trump's life, he inserts things that are got necessarily true, tries to find evidence for it. >> did you see kellyanne's pivot the other day? he knows so many things we don't know. she didn't say -- she's covering for herself in this case. thank you, carol lee. thank you. it's a tough time to be a straight reporter. this is not a straight world. phil rutger, thank you. coming up, the rolling disclosure on trump's potential russian connection continues. today we learn trump's former campaign manager corey lewandowski gave carter page leave to go to russia last summer. it just keeps growing and growing. plus on this international women's day, the trump administration's considering separating women, or mothers from their children if they try to enter the country illegally. that's going to be wonderful. i mean sar castically. it's going to be table.
the "hardball" roundtable here tonight to talk about the challenge of separating fact from fiction today and trying to get to the truth during the trump era. finally let me finish with the trump watch. you won't like this one, either. you're watching "hardball" where the action is. oh...not the smooch method! come on... what's going on here? you know how ge technology allows us to fix problems before they... they slow production, yeah. well, no more catchy business acronyms. wait, we don't need to smooch? i'm sure we can smooch a solution! we just need to "hover" over the candice, problem until...
just let it go... hey, sorry i'm late for team building. smoooooooch! that felt right. what's wrong with you!? he's so trusting... well, when he was a candidate, donald trump said he loved wikileaks. the website that collaborated with russian intelligence to help defeat hillary clinton. well in fact, he repeatedly professed his love for wikileaks. >> by the way, did you see another one, another one came in today, this wikileaks is like a treasure-trove. this wikileaks is unbelievable. what we've learned about her and her people. we love wikileaks. boy, they are really -- wikileaks. they have revealed a lot. boy, that wikileaks has done a job on her. hasn't it? i tell you, this wikileaks stuff is unbelievable. it tells you the inner heart. you got to read it.
now, this just came out, this just came out, wikileaks, i love wikileaks. >> well now wikileaks, the beloved wikileaks, released a trove of what it says are cia documents showing how the agency broke into smartphones and even tvs for spying and today the cia said it had no comment on the authenticity of those documents. when we come back, we'll talk to u.s. congressman waukeen castro of the intelligence committee about the latest wikileaks dump and what we're learning about president trump's relationship with russia. back after this. that could sense vehicles in your blind spot. take on the unexpected, with six 2017 iihs top safety picks. it's clear why we're america's fastest-growing auto brand. get to nissan now for 0% financing on 11 models & no payments for 90 days.
i love to see businesses that just started from ground up grow into further success. it just feels good to know that i'm helping someone else. my first goal is to learn about their business, what they're currently doing in their advertising. pull some research, create a great story. trying to figure out some way of building some kind of trust in a very quick moment. you have to love to work with people. our goal, without a doubt, is that all customers are satisfied before they leave. ♪ can you say whether you are aware that anyone who advised your campaign had contacts with russia during the course of the election? >> no, nobody that i know of. >> you're not aware of any contacts during the course of the election? >> how many times do i have to answer this question? russia is a ruse. i have nothing to do with russia. to the best of my knowledge, no person that i deal with does. >> welcome to "hardball."
last month, president trump denied that anyone in his campaign, as you just saw, had any contacts with russia during the election. but in making that statement, the president directly contradicted the word of russia's deputy foreign minister who said just days after the election that, "there were contacts during the campaign." we now know that thee members of trump's national security advisory committee, senator jeff sessions, j.d. gordon, carter page, all spoke with the russian ambassador during the campaign. additionally just before the republican convention, carter page traveled to moscow where he delivered a commencement address -- ken vogel of politico reports, "page e-mailed campaign manager corey lewandowski and spokeswoman asking for formal approval for the trip and told by lewandowski he would make a trip to moscow but not as an official representative of the campaign." corey lewandowski telling politico "i don't remember that, i probably got a thousand
e-mails at that time and don't remember every single one i sent. i wouldn't necessarily remember if i had a one-word response to him saying he would do something as a private citizen." page left the campaign in september. trump campaign officials later distanced themselves from him. late today a source close to former utah governor jon huntsman tells nbc news that huntsman was offed and has accepted the position to be the next u.s. ambassador of russia. joined by u.s. congressman joaquin castro of texas, serves on the house select committee on intelligence. also here, ken vogel who wrote the story, chief investigative reporter for politico. congressman, you're in there and i guess my question is, we know an awful lot thanks to the 17 intelligence agencies about the way russia wanted hillary to lose and if it could be really lucky, get trump to win. how they wanted to undermine our democracy. that's all on the record. we also have a lot of other things on the record. how trump romanced or bromanced the russians all through the campaign. said wonderful things about their little instrument called wikileaks, said wonderful things about vladimir putin, about everything over there, how he's
going to be their allies in the world against isis, et cetera, et cetera. seems to me a lot of information is out there about the symbiotic relationship between trump and the russians. what do you know more, or can you hichbt nt at where you thins story's going? >> you know, chris, insaid very clearly as have others on this committee, we need to get to the bottom of one question. did any americans conspire with the russians who interfered with our 2016 presidential election? and specifically, did anyone associated with the trump campaign help those who interfered with the 2016 presidential election? when we keep seeing more and more connections between trump advisers, at least coming out in reports, these trump advisers and the russians. and so, of course, this just speaks to how important the investigation is. >> well, doesn't the -- i mean, my experience over the years is the fbi, as part of our counterintelligence effort in this country, which all other countries have, they have all kinds of electronic wiretaps and information like, leb trelectro
communication, involving the russian ambassador and officials who look like they might be under cover. why can't don't we get that information out? when's it going to come? the information. the nsa's got it, the cia's got it, certainly the fbi. what's the wait for? >> that's a great question. you know, i've been critical of the pace of the investigation at least in the house committee. i said last week there is a gap between what the intelligence agencies know and what the committee has been told. adam schiff, the democratic ranking member, has essentially said the same thing. so i'm with you on that. i think we should be moving in a brisker pace. you see there's a few hearings on this issue that have now been scheduled and publicly hopefull start moving at a quicker pace because all americans deserve an answer to these questions and getting to the bottom of it really is fundamental to our democracy. >> we know what russia did to
help get trump elected and as a candidate, trump repeatedly made overtures to putin. let's watch him. >> i think i g'd get along very well with vladimir putin. i just think so. wouldn't it be nice if actually we could get along with russia? and what's wrong with are russia wants to drop million-dollar bombs on isis? i say, good. putin said donald trump is a geni genius, he's going to be the next great leader of the united states. my attitude, when people like me, i like them. even putin. russia, if you're listening, i hope you're able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing. >> putin's a killer. >> a lot of killers. we got a lot of killers. what, you think our country's so innocent? >> let me go to a couple things that do matter here. certainly our policy toward ukraine. our policy toward crimecrimea. i think either administration, democrat or republican, obama who normally a republican administration, would say russia, big bear, hold back,
don't be grabbing back those countries on your border so easily. you got back crimea, we'll fight about that. certainly don't make any moves on the larger part of ukraine. now we get the sense that the platform in the republican convention this year, the plank dealing with that, was changed and look at this, during the same week the trump aides spoke with the russian am babassador cleveland during the republican convention, the trump campaign watered down an amendment to the party platform that supported ukraine against russian aggression. trump's campaign chairman, paul manafort at the time, denied responsibility for the change as did trump, himself. trump also defended russia's right to seize crimea from ukraine. here he is. >> everybody on the platform committee had said it came from the trump campaign. if not you, who? >> it absolutely did not come from the trump campaign. >> so nobody from the trump campaign wanted that change in the platform? >> no one. zero. >> why did she soften the gop platform on ukraine? >> i wasn't involved in that. you know, the people of crimea
from what i've heard would rather be with russia than where they were. >> well now politico is reporting a ukrainian operative with suspected ties to russian intelligence consulted with paul manafort during the political o ukraine he played a role in changing the platform language. ken, what do we make of this? in they soften up the republican platform, usually a hawkish party, softened them up because they have inside operatives in the republican operation here, we ought to know about that. >> they're quick to say, in fact, the language in the platform ended up being tougher than it was before this amendment was proposed. wasn't as tough as -- >> not thanks to them. >> right. certainly. we have reporting that does suggest, in fact, there were representatives of the trump campaign who did play a role in watering down that proposed amendment that would have been much tougher. so it's yet another example where they come out with a blanket denial, say we candiddi have anything to do with the platform, turns out they did.
flynn says to the vice president of all people, i didn't talk about the sanctions with the russian am bass dr. turns out he did. sessions tells the judiciary committee, i didn't talk with any russians. the biggest problem for me, they cannot get their stories zragt he straight here. >> if it comes out, congressman, you may be the first to know on the intelligence committee, that there was a positive role by the trump people in getting the russians to do what they did in terms of screwing up the democrats in the general election, with all the hacking and they played a role in that, would that be impeachable? >> if at the end of the investigation it's found the president's advisers played a role in aiding the russians who interfered with the election and the president knew about it, then that is historically significant and it's a betrayal of our democracy and certainly i think many people would move for impeachment. >> thank you so much. u.s. congressman joaquin castro of texas, thank you, ken vogel, for your amazing reporting these days. up next, it's international
women's day. while they have rallies around the country right now, they're going on, the homeland security secretary is considering a plan that would separate mothers from their children. remember sophie's choice, if they cross into this kun this c illegally. a debate is coming up about that. this is "hardball" where the action is. oh yeah sure... ok, like what? but i thought we were supposed to be talking about investing for retirement? we're absolutely doing that. but there's no law you can't make the most of today. what do you want to do? i'd really like to run with the bulls. wow. yea. hope you're fast. i am. get a portfolio that works for you now and as your needs change. investment management services from td ameritrade. tech: at safelite, we know how busy your life can be. mom: oh no... tech: this mom didn't have time to worry about a cracked windshield. so she scheduled at safelite.com and with safelite's exclusive "on my way text" she knew exactly when i'd be there, so she didn't miss a single shot.
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see your doctor if your asthma does not improve or gets worse. ask your doctor if 24-hour breo could be a missing piece for you. learn more about better breathing at mybreo.com. welcome back to "hardball." around the world people are celebrating international women's day today. in the united states, organizers of january's women's march on washington use the this occasion
to plan a national demonstration called a day without a woman. women. it's plural there. thousands of women abstained from their -- it's a great word, abstained from their day jobs and took to the streets. that's a live picture looking at right now from new york outside the trump soho hotel. they're rallying against the discrimination and division they say the president espouses. here we go. >> i think it's important that the country know that women are standing together against hate and division and discrimination. >> what we have to do now is do what we can is protest and stand up and let the country and our elected leaders know what's important to us. and so that's what we're doing. >> in washington, several female democratic lawmakers symbolically staged a walkout in support, there they are, in red. 21 members of the congress. >> we know one thing for sure, that when women succeed, america succeeds. >> well the other end of pennsylvania avenue, donald
trump honored the day by dropping in on his wife's luncheon and tweeting on international women's day, join me in honoring the critical role of women here in america and around the world." and "i have tremendous respect for women and the many roles they serve that are vital to the fabric of our society and our economy." the tweets drew immediate criticism because of trump's record on women. his administration is also under scrutiny for its lack of gender diversi diversity, intention to defund planned participaenthood. and to separate women and children to cross the border illegally. secretary john kelly confirmed the administration was considering that proposal. here he is. >> our department of homeland security personnel going to separate the children from their moms and dads. >> yes, i am considering in order to deter more movement along this terribly dangerous network, i am considering exactly that. they will be well cared for as we deal with their parents. >> joining me right now for more, maria teresa kumar, ceo of
voter latino, and former campaign manager for mitt romney, katie packer. both are attorneys. you have a tough job now. we have to talk about it. sounds like sophie's choice -- not sophie's choice. the idea of separating children from their mothers. obviously alleged to have broken the law, come across the border, may be asylum seekers. we don't know. may be poor people looking for a job. we don't know. trying to meet some relative here. we don't know. the idea of putting out the word, hey, we're going to separate you from your kids as a way of saying we're going to make you pay for this. >> well, certainly the notion of separating children from their parents -- >> as a punitive action? as a punitive action. >> as a punitive action, is very unseemly. what i understand, though, about what he's talking about is there is an angle to this that's trying to address the child trafficking issue. that it's not just separating children from their parents -- >> that's what he said, though. >> it's separating kirn from adults. >> i understand that. >> were you helping him here? are you helping him? that's not what he said. >> there might be an angle there
that could be sort of salvageable but this notion of taking children away from their parents -- >> that is the -- you're very good at this, katikatie. i got tell you, for -- mothers carrying a baby, carrying an 8-year-old. >> what you're referring to, secretary kelly is also looking at this idea if a parent has someone bringing over they child, they're going to charge the parent with human trafficking. that's just as bad. so this idea that we are -- the majority of the people that to rming right now in south america are fleeing sexual viviolence, violence, themselves. >> what countries? >> el salvador, honduras primarily. not only going to the united states, going to costa rica, belize, where they mostly have family members. >> what do you make of this proposal to punish people for crossing the border illegally? >> it's cruel.
it's anti-american. >> do you think that will -- >> at the end of the day, you're trying to get to safety for your family, america has been the beacon of hope. most of these folks are refugees and saying if i have to get separated, i will do it. the problem is even amnesty international has found a lot of these detention systems are completely abhorrent. they're anti a lot of international rights. >> what should the u.s. government do? >> they should actually process asylum seekers and -- >> if they're not asylum se seekers, what do you do with the ones who are not seeking asylum? >> the yoert majority of them a. >> what about the ones who are? >> everybody believes we need to have secured borders but in a way that is not cruel. >> you're always good at this. >> it's not going to happen because it's not good policy. >> let me ask her about the difference between -- can i talk to you for a second, ask you a question? what's a difference between a republican view of international women's day and a democrats' view? what's the difference between
your point of view from a party point of view? >> well, i think for republicans everybody's feeling a little sort of protested out. like every day there's some new protest and at some point you say to yourself, you know, when is there going to be sort of a general discussion of the things that you actually object to instead of just this daily protesting of everything that trump does? and you can't hear anything because -- >> what was your reaction to trump's comments, mexicans are rapists. islamic women -- what do you -- billy bush was who listening and fluffing him on you might say gets fired, trump gets elected president. doesn't that amaze you? >> it does amaze me. >> that conversation about women. >> it makes him a very flawed vessel for a comment like he made today. >> did you vote for him? >> i have very publicly said i did not vote for him. >> i know you didn't. go ahead. >> i think -- what he brought on, the way he brought on sexual
violence into a conversation allowed people to have for the first time a conversation between their spouse as and the loved ones. at the same time, what he signals is it almost didn't matter. >> because he won. >> because he con. >> 42% of women voted for him. >> no consequences. 53% of white women voted for him, too. no consequences for those actions. the reason people keep marching, these are people who may not have voted and are coming into the political process, saying what do we do next? our job is to harness sthat. >> you know what i learned? women say, men are all like that. i go, they're not like that. >> more are like that than you think. >> that's possible because you just defined the possibility of it. yeah. >> you know what -- >> thank you. >> back again, for the very first time, trump lost young white men. >> yeah. millennials have good values. millennials have good values. maria, we all know that. maria teresa kumar and katie packer. katie packer, what a great name. up next -- katie packer. up next, the "hardball"
roundtable will be here. tonight separating fact from fiction and getting at the truth in the trump era. that's what we're going to talk about. finding the nonfiction in the fiction. you're watching "hardball" where the action is. ( ♪ ) upstate new york is a good place to pursue your dreams. at vicarious visions, i get to be creative, work with awesome people, and we get to make great games. ( ♪ ) what i like about the area, feels like everybody knows each other. and i can go to my local coffee shop and they know who i am. it's really cool. new york state is filled with bright minds like lisa's. to find the companies and talent of tomorrow, search for our page, jobsinnewyorkstate on linkedin. search for our page, at bp's cooper river plant, employees take safety personally - down to each piece of equipment,
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seriously. this after the white house wouldn't provide evidence that former president obama wiretapped president trump's phones during the 2016 campaign. as trump claimed saturday morning. >> is the white house position that the president can make declarative statements about a former president basically committing a crime and then the congressional committee should look into that and basically prove it? >> that is not a question of prove it, is they have the resources and the clearances and the staff to fully and thoroughly and comprehensively investigate this. and then issue a report as to what their findings are. >> so but president trump's twitter statement shouldn't be taken at face value about what -- >> sure, it should. of course -- why -- no. there's nothing, as i mentioned to jim, it's not that he's walking anything back or regretting it, he's just saying that they have the appropriate venue. >> so how does a journalist get to the truth in the age of trump? joining me in the "hardball" roundtable tonight, three reporters who cover politics and the white house.
ayesha roscoe, white house correspondent, saw her there, for reuters, who asked that question, went back and forth with spicer. david corn, washington bureau chief for mother jones. msnbc political analyst. laura bassett, senior political reporter with the "huffington post." that quhestioning of a press secretary who's definitely out of his element. he obviously doesn't believe his nonsense about the president accusing the previous president of wiretapping him yet he has to say things -- i think you almost caught him there, should we take it as face value? i thought you'd almost get him to say no. of course i take it at face value. of course we have to submit it to congress to see if that's true or not. that doesn't make any sense. >> that was the point of the questioning. they came out with a statement after the twitter statements which were declared, president trump said i was wiretapped, president obama did it basically. then now the white house is saying, oh, committees have to look into it and have to see whether they're concerned. that's what i was trying to get at was, well, should we take the
twitter statements which were declarative -- >> suppose trump said the president, previous president snuck into the white house last night and stole my hamburgers. i mean, something really ridiculous. then say we're going to let the house and senate intelligence committee examine it. i mean, the stuff he -- the claims are just -- at what point is spicer or anybody just says i can't take this job anymore, this is stupid, this isn't worthy of my time, i'm going to end up looking like a liar here. >> right. i think that the problem for, at least for the media, is it's almost impossible to fact check some of this stuff. >> he doesn't care. >> because, yeah, then kellyanne conway can go on tv and say, well, you know, we say, well, did you get this from a breitbart story or not? and she says, well, he's privy to intelligence that most people don't know and information that most people don't know and the president should be. how to you fact check that when she says there's information that we just don't know? >> you can't fact check crazy.
the thing is, i've seen people acting as if they're surprised by this. you and i know there's nothing to be surprised by this. he did this for three years about birtherism. he did this about the crowds in the inauguration. he did this about ted cruz's dad -- >> and the 3 million mexicans who voted against him in california. >> he does this again and again and again. we act as he's a rational actor. >> what are you supposed to do? ayesha, it isn't like the old ethiopia where every headline began, lion of juda said this morning and pript nt it as if i true. what are you supposed to do? >> ask tough questions. you have to, you know, if they say things that maybe don't seem to add up, you have to ask them for clarity and then you have to do your own digging. i think it's important for us as journalists to make sure that we're providing readers with the facts. >> okay. >> with what we know. >> when do you get a no on this? i've been saying the congress'
job is to give him a nay. they're not doing anything, not check this stuff out. they say, oh, we're going to buy xerox machines and hire some lawyers and get officers assigned and in six months we'll get down to business, ten years later we might have -- congress does not move lickety-split. >> i mean, i thought their response to the whole wiretapping thing was really awkward. all of them were put in an incredibly awkward position of saying i don't believe what the president's saying, he's still the president, okay, we'll look into it. >> one guy had some guts, had some balls to put it bluntly. that was mccain. one guy. mccain called him on it. as much as he may be bitter against obama, he has contempt for trump. >> he said trump is obligated to prove this. i think that's a pretty fair statement. you accuse the former president of breaking the law. >> yeah. >> it just shows you how far the republican establishment has gone in self-emasculation. >> yeah. >> they will not even -- if crazedy is right in front of them and it's two plus two, they'll say, maybe it is five
because we don't have all the facts. >> are they afraid of getting a nickname? what are they afraid of? >> i talked to one house democrat who's trying to get a republican on the bill that trump wouldn't like and the guy said i can't do it, trump will start tweeting at me. they're afraid of trump. they're afraid of the base has been trumpfied. they're running scared. they want him around to sign the medicare privatization bills and whatever they come up with, anything in health care. they can't -- listen, once you say the president is nuts there's no going back from that. >> yeah, but some of this, i would hope, would penetrate to the 35%. do you think it will? >> i think -- i mean, i think -- >> will it penetrate to objective people that are reasonably objective? >> i think people can be logical and look at what's happening and draw their conclusions. i think especially when, you know, the rubber hits the road and you have to start looking at policies and what's going to come out. >> i wonder if it's like when you get married to someone, you realize they're different than the one that courted you and you
go, but i'm still stuck. >> it's not different, though, he was like this the whole campaign. >> that's true. >> aren't you smart? thank you. the roundtable is sticking with us. up next, these three will tell me something i don't know. i should have known that. bp uses flir cameras - a new thermal imagining technology - to inspect difficult-to-reach pipelines, so we can detect leaks before humans can see them. because safety is never being satisfied. and always working to be better.
resist, run for office, be a champion. >> tonight secretary clinton will mark international women's day at the ceremony for vital voices, a woman's leadership group that she founded. we'll be back after this. my day starts well before i'm even in the kitchen. i need my blood sugar to stay in control. so i asked about tresiba®. ♪ tresiba® ready ♪ tresiba® is a once-daily, long-acting insulin that lasts even longer than 24 hours. i need to shave my a1c. ♪ tresiba® ready ♪ tresiba® works
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swelling of your face, tongue, or throat, dizziness or confusion. ask your health care provider if you're tresiba® ready. covered by most insurance and medicare plans. ♪ tresiba® ready ♪ aisha, tell me something, you're amazing, you take on spicer. just wrap im, go ahead. >> well, in honor of women's day, speaking of one of the most powerful women in international politics, german chancellor angela merkel is coming here, we hear top on the agenda will be ukraine and russia and also that president trump might press her on getting germany to pay its fair share on nato. >> i will think germany would have paid early. >> it will be interesting to see with how she deals with president trump. >> she's his equal by any standard. >> you mentioned john mccain because he took a strong stand
on the wiretapping stuff. he's taken a strong stand on the russian stuff, the white house is enraged about john mccain and they are trying to find ways to politically marginalize him and elevate other voices within the party like senator named tom cotton. they want mccain sidelined. >> i'm with mccain on that one. by the way, mccain will never be forgot within what he accused with that woman that accused obama being arrogant. that's profile in courage stuff. trump hasn't done one of those yet. >> i talked to health experts about trumpcare today and what it would do. >> you're saying it, aren't you? >> i'm saying trumpcare. >> like people wouldn't say reagan airport for years but you're saying trumpcare right away. >> it restricts abortion in four different ways and defunds planned parenthood. >> explain the abortion piece. >> it would drive abortion insurance completely out of the market so there wouldn't be an option for women to have abortion coverage anymore and it defunds planned parenthood. >> totally? >> the health experts said it
would drive up unintended pregnancies. >> so it would do away with all birth control help for people. >> exactly. and have the opposite. >> that's a counterer effort for the pro life people. anyway, i think if you believe in avoiding abortion, anyway. ais aisha, thank you, please come back. david corn, always and laura basset, yes. i'm out of good words. when we return, let me finish with trump watch. you're watching "hardball." finally. hey ron! they're finally taking down that schwab billboard. oh, not so fast, carl. ♪
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trump watch, wednesday, march 8, 2017. we have a man in the white house who thinks nothing -- that's a phrase to keep handy -- of speaking nastily and outrageously about his predecessor. why not? when he called obama an illegal immigrant from kenya the republican speaker of the house said it wasn't his job to tell people how to think. and with him now calling the former president a criminal, no leader up there in the congress is willing to come out and throw water on the president's fish story. this isn't about how big he says his hands are or how many people he can see on the washington mall or how many elusive illegal voters he says were out there last november. it's about truth and untruth. the truth that the russians helped him win the election. the untruth that president obama had him bugged. i understand why his people want this accusation of his to disappear on capitol hill. it's an old trick. it's what spiro agnew did when he faced indictment for accepted bribes for maryland contractors. he headed to the speaker asking him to be tried by the congress. he figured the case would be
tonight. this is one of the backward and nasty executive orders the president has issued." also today thousands of anti-abortion protesters gathered in washington for the annual march for life. mike pence told the crowd the president would announce a supreme court nominee soon and trump hinted strongly at the person he's choosing. >> the person i pick will be a big, big -- i think people are going to love it. i think evangelicals, christians will love my pick. and we'll be represented very fairly. >> jeff zeleny begins our coverage tonight out front at the white house. trump signing a flurry of executive orders this week, up to 14, but these on immigration, do they really have teeth? >> reporter: indeed they do. the ones that he signed late today, they do sort of play out exactly what he talked about in the campaign, extreme vetting. it should come as no surprise, but they are going at the heart
of refugees coming here to the country, particularly syrian refugees. the white house just moments ago actually released some of these orders. we are looking through them right now. but they do specifically focus muslim majority countries. this is all coming on a day when here at the white house he opened his doors for the first time to a foreign leader. >> i'm not as fresh as you might think. >> reporter: president trump welcomed british prime minister theresa may to the white house pledging to uphold the special relationship with the you can you can you c united kingdom. >> great days lie ahead for our two peoples and our two countries. >> reporter: the world was watching for the first meeting with the foreign leader. yet it was the more challenging diplomatic test he's facing with mexico and russia that took center stage, the president taking steps to cool an escalating standoff with mexico. he spoke on the phone for nearly an hour today with mexican president enrique pena nieto, who cancelled a trip to the u.s. over trump's demand that mexico
could do it without congress. something congress is likely to take issue with. >> it's something i have the right to do, something i can impose if i want. we are getting along actually very well with the mexican government. we'll see what happens. >> reporter: a week into his presidency, he said it's too early to say whether he will lift sanctions imposed by president obama against russian president vladimir putin. he's set to talk with putin by phone on saturday. after being criticized for his praise of the russian leader, mr. trump took a more measured approach today. >> how the relationship works out i won't be able to tell you that later. i've had many times where i'd thought i'd get along with people and i don't like them at al all. and i've had some i didn't think i would have much of a relationship and it turned out to be much of a relationship. >> reporter: the president said he believes waterboarding and other forms of torture work but would follow the lead of james
research that the there are far more christians than muslims. this year the number of muslims ticked up because you had so many leaving syria and the vast majority of refugees leaving syria are muslim. specifically syria, the percentage of religions coming out of there and into the u.s. 99% muslim, less than 1% christian. to be clear, the population of syria sl almost -- not exclusively but the vast majority of people are muslim. latest numbers we have, 93% of the population is muslim, 5% christian. i should note that in recent years many of the christians have fled that country because of the dangers that donald trump is talking about. and most of them are concentrated around the damascus area. so donald trump is implying actually more than implying, saying in a statement the u.s. made it more difficult for christians to come in than muslims. the fact is the u.s. does not look at religion, does not give christian or muslim a benefit.
it looks at the status of the refugee. the reason you have more muslim refugees coming from syria is there are more muslim refugees trying to flee syria, not because the u.s. has imposed some sort of advantage on muslim versus christian. >> jim sciutto, thank you very much. laying out those facts there. democratic senator jeff merkley sits in the senate foreign relations committee among others. you heard president trump say he will give priority to christian refugees. what do you think of that? >> i think it goes against the fundamental nature of freedom of religion in our country. it's a foundation we don't discriminate on the basis of religion. when it comes to refugee, chiselled into the foundation of the base of the statue of liberty, it says give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the oppressed and afflicted of the world, not those of one
religion or another. i'm particularly concerned about the second half of his order addressing basically being a muslim registration operation. >> so i want to ask you about that. you're talking about a muslim registry. we have the order now so it would be a temporary ban on visas from a group of muslim majority countries. when he signed this executive order earlier tonight he spoke about what he wanted to accomplish. >> i'm establishing new vetting measures to keep radical islamic terrorists out of the united states of america. we don't want them here. >> we know the san bernardino attacks were carried out by a woman who had come to the united states from pakistan. better vetting may have stopped her. she and her husband killed 14 innocent people. isn't trump right to establish new vetting procedures? >> we had this model in place and it didn't produce a single
prosecution because those who would do us harm are going to circumvent that basic process. but what this does do is it feeds right into the isis message to recruit terrorists, which is that america is conducting a war on islam. so we've had this before. it didn't work, and in fact it caused a lot of hatred towards the united states, feeds into isis' rhetoric, and that makes us less safe rather than more safe. >> when you look just at that case as an example, they didn't check social media, didn't do certain things. i think we could all look and say we wish they had. maybe you're saying extreme vetting wouldn't accomplish that, but is he wrong to say that those processes need to be looked at? >> listen, the -- we had this exact model in place. it didn't catch the situation that occurred in california. it didn't catch anyone, not one, but it did feed a lot of the
hatred of folks who felt the united states was treating muslims as second-class citizens both inside of our country and treating muslims poorly around the world. and so if you want to add to the risk to the united states, this is a good strategy. if you want the united states to be safe, absolutely, vet our folks coming into this country. we do it. but don't do it on a religious basis. >> so today the president, in addition to those orders he signed today, haeld press conference with the british prime minister. he talked about the weight of the office and how it has turned him towards god. this was in an interview with the christian broadcasting network. >> i've always felt the need to pray, and you know that, so i would say that the office is so powerful that you need god even more because your decisions are no longer, gee, i'm going to
build a building in new york or i'm going to do -- these are questions of massive life and death. there's almost not a decision that you make when you're sitting in this position that isn't a really life-altering position. so god comes into it even more so. >> when you hear him talk about god, does that make you more comfortable he's assuming the weight of his office or make you less comfortable? >> i've been hoping as he assumes the mantel of leadership he'd step back from a lot of the conspiracy and hatred of groups and start to represent all of our nation and understand how important these decisions are. i was very concerned about his comments about nuclear weapons, nuclear arms race, because if you take someone who has a massive ego and isn't taking a decision seriously, we could make mistakes that could harm the entire planet. so that's a very thoughtful
statement and seeking spiritual guidance. that is a good thing. i must say, however, though, i hope he'll bring much more of that concern as he nominates people for his administration because what we have seen as a man who campaigned, he campaigned against wit wall street, he campaigned for worker, and he campaigned for draining the swamp, but we're getting the swamp cabinet of big oil, big banks, and billionaires who are very poor fit for running the departments that he's assigned them to. >> senator merkley sh, apprecia your time. >> you're welcome. next, president trump says one man has proof of massive voter fraud. who is he? and what is his evidence? plus why were the president and british prime minister holding hands at the white house today? and our special investigation series on president trump's border wall. tonight inside the vast network of tunnels under the u.s./mexican border.
>> depending on the resiliency of the digging crew, they can go really fast really far.
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president trump not backing down on his claim of voter fraud in the election. he tweeted look toward to seeing final results. greg phillips and crew say at least 3 million votes were illegal. we must do better. so who is greg phillips and why is trump citing him as a source? drew griffin is out front. >> reporter: where does donald trump get his information of massive voter fraud? not from study after study, report after report, analysis after analysis that has found no evidence but from a nonprofit group that has released no evidence. its leading voice is the former executive director of the mississippi republican party. he's now ceo of a health data company based in texas and a conspiracy theorist, and this morning on cnn's "new day" greg
phillips wouldn't say what his proof actually is. >> you said we know 3 million illegally voted. >> we didn't name a soul, a person. >> will you? >> yes. >> do you have the proof? >> yes. >> will you provide it? >> yes. >> can i have it? >> no. >> why? >> we're going to release everything to the public. >> when? >> as soon as we get done with the checks. >> president trump apparently can't wait either. after greg phillips' appearance, the president tweeted, look forward to seeing final results of vote stand. greg phillips and crew say at least 3 million votes were illegal. we must do better. votestand is greg phillips' mostly empty app site with no proof of anything. it's affiliated with true the vote, a nonprofit that raised a million dollars in 2014 according to its latest tax filing. paid half of that amount in salaries including $120,000 to its director, who raises money
by hiring private fund-raisers and posting frightening but vague youtube posts like this. >> is election fraud a real problem? yes. how bad is it? well, we have over 800 convictions listed in our online convictions database, but that number does not scratch the surface because for every case of fraud that's actually run through the multiyear gauntlet of litigation that's generally necessary to get a conviction, another hundred cases are never prosecuted at all. >> how does she know that? good question. here are the facts. there is no proof of widespread voter fraud in the united states. in study after study, republican-led, democratic-led, independent-led, academic led, going back years and years, no one has been able to prove there is systemic vote fraud in u.s. elections. and we've been down this road before. in 2002, republican president george bush with his republican
attorney general john ashcroft launched the ballot access and voting integrity initiative to crack down on election crimes including vote fraud. after six years, the total number of people convicted for voter fraud, less than 150. a rutgers professor who analyzed data from the initiative concluded the percentage of illegal votes was statistically zero. and as for the elected secretaries of state who actually run elections in their states, not one, republican or democrat, has voiced any concern about massive voter fraud in the november 8 election prompting the national association of secretaries of state to say we are not aware of any evidence that supports the voter fraud claims made by president trump. apparently not enough evidence for the president. >> drew griffin joins me now. also with me our washington bureau chief from the daily
beat, david chalian. drew, you've gone through the facts. we're hearing these assertions they say they'll come forward and have names. is it possible there's any way, that there's some evidence the secretaries of state have missed and everyone else has missed and there are millions of illegal votes? >> no. i don't know how else we can go over this but no. the people in charge of the elections are secretaries of state. that was a powerful statement. house speaker paul ryan has said i've found no evidence. in a december 1st file big trump's own attorneys, all available evidence suggests the 2016 general election was not tainted by fraud. some people, erin, are going to watch this and think we're all involved in a conspiracy, a media conspiracy, to hide the fact that 3 million to 5 million people voted illegally in this election, but that's a pretty big and growing conspiracy of
conspirators now involving 32 republican secretaries of state i guess. >> pretty stunning because you have to realize that there would have had to have been coordination. this wouldn't have randomly happened sporadically all over the place. david, president trump is citing greg phillips and drew just showed us who he is. he has shown no evidence of voter fraud. you heard him there. he'll put it out when he's going to put it out, has no credibility on this issue. how dangerous is this that the president of the united states put out a tweet citing this guy by name? >> well, i mean, it could be dangerous. it's certainly not a wise move for the president of the united states, the leader of the free world, to be highlighting and spotlighting conspiracy theorists with no proof of what they're claiming. that's not a good thing. but i think there are two ways to think about this. if this is just donald trump smarting over the fact that he did not win the popular vote, that's one thing. and then this could be sort of a personal mission for him. but if this is donald trump as i
think some of his critics fear laying the groundwork to put more strict voting regulations and rules into place to try to limit people's access to the vote, then that could become a much more serious problem. >> jackie, to push his unproven voter fraud allegation, trump told a story this week. he had this cocktail party at the white house and told a story about a german golfer. he said this golfer went to vote, i don't know why, but he went to vote in florida and he was turned away. latin-americans, hispanic who is he says were not citizens voted. turns out the story is not true. but trump apparently was told the story, running with it, telling people, using it to bolster his claim. what does this mean about how he's going to govern? this is governing by anecdote. >> i hope this isn't how. it's like an episode of gossip girl. it's not usually what comes out of the oval office. a guy told a guy who may have been that guy's cousin that
there was voter fraud. it doesn't make sense. it doesn't inspire confidence. one would hope that, you know, perhaps he would get his sourcing a little better before he makes these kind of wild very serious allegations having to do with the electoral process. but, yeah, once you started digging into this, the daughter of that german golfer said trump and this golfer aren't even friends. so the whole story was sort of blown up with a couple phone calls. >> drew, this happened before president george w. bush ordered an investigation into voter fraud. it took six years. you report fewer than 150 people were criminally convicted. that was after six years of investigating. a lot of money spent on an investigation. trump is looking for 3 million to 5 million convictions. >> i just don't know where he's going with this, how he would possibly get the money to do this. obviously the republicans in his own party are just, you know, holding their nose and hoping this all goals away.
but to jackie's point, you know, i heard the same thing out in the street. i was in fayetteville, north carolina. you hear these stories. a guy comes up and says a bus driver told me he drove around black church members to voting place to voting place. they believe this stuff. you start asking questions like oh, really? do you know the bus driver? no. do you know the bus company? no. do you remember the cloud cover of the bus? no. but they believe it and this is the kind of conspiracy theorys that keep driving these issues. >> one other point. if there are 3 million to 5 million illegal votes, why is it only donald trump who is complaining? there are other people on the ballot. and even if the white house recently pointed to california and new york, don't you think that if you were somebody on the ballot in california and new york and you lost that you would be raising -- nobody else is raising this concern. >> if those votes came in certain states it would have flipped the election so if hillary clinton thought there was anything in this, she would be yelling loud and clear. thanks to all three and drew for that amazing reporting.
next, president trump's threatening a massive tax on mexico. my guest is the founder of patrone tequila. he says americans will pay that price. and our special series takes you to the u.s./mexican border. footage from inside tunnels used by smugglers and immigrants. >> the imagination of people trying to illicitly trying to come north is something i don't second guess. they're incredible. (vo) do not go gentle into that good night, old age should burn and rave at close of day; rage, rage against the dying of the light. do not go gentle into that good night. ♪ ♪
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back along the southern border. this time in california with incredible access to an underground network of drug smuggling tunnels that stretch from mexico beneath the existing border fence into the united states. here's ed lavendandera with the story you'll see only "out front." >> reporter: for years the vigilance along the southern border has been growing. border agents kriz crossing the remote terrains and urban streets, ground scenters and high powered cameras keeping constant watch. now smugglers go where the cameras and eyes can't see them. we are in a tunnel underneath otay mesa, california, south of san diego on the border with tijuana, mexico. this is a tunnel that stretched about 7650 feet from tijuana into a warehouse or would have stretched into a warehouse on the other side of the border and we're about 70 feet underground
right now. >> that's one of the deeper tunnels we've found. >> reporter: lance is part of a specialized team of border patrol agents known as the tunnel rats. they work underground, 1/2 gaiting newly discovered tunnels and sewer systems. >> reporter: do you think these tunnels started appearing as a response -- as more fencing went up in this area? >> oh, i'm sure it probably did. but we're also still talking there's a lot of stuff they have to move. >> reporter: homeland security officials say in the last ten years nearly 30 tunnels have been discovered just in the san diego area alone. >> they will continue to go on between the u.s. and mexican border, yes, it will continue. there's a way that these drug trafficking organizations can stay undetected and it's by tunneling, they will. >> reporter: this is usually a high-dollar, high, you know, risk/reward enterprise. >> it's a lot of stuff that they've got to move in a relatively short amount of time. >> reporter: he says the tunnels are used to move large packs of
marijuana and cocaine and often lined with electrical power and ventilation. >> this one had a rail system in it. >> reporter: how long does it take to build something like this? >> depend ong the resiliency of the digging crew, they can go really fast really far. >> is it by hand, by shovel? >> basically almost exclusively by hand with power tools. >> reporter: when these things started popping up, what was your reaction to that? >> the imagination of people trying to illicitly come north is something i don't try to second-guess. i mean, it is -- they're incredible, some of the methods they use. >> reporter: fighting this ingenuity below ground has fundamentally changed life on the border above ground. alycia and chris martin spend their lives straddling both sides of the border. they own organic farms in mexico and a produce distribution business and one of the most unique restaurants in mexico. the restaurant is called the rock. >> yes, it is.
yeah. la roca. >> reporter: because your uncle built this into the side of this mountain. >> that's me. >> reporter: as a child she remembers freely crossing the border into mexico. >> this is our farm. we'd come down in our bathing suits as kids, get the popsicle, get the ice cream and go back. >> reporter: with immigration controls tightening on the u.s. side and the fear of cartel violence, the restaurant has struggled to keep its doors open. >> it was all of a sudden somebody came in and hit the light switch and there was nobody. there was nobody in town. there was nobody on the street. >> they're difficult problems to solve, throwing up trade barriers, putting up a wall. there's such harsh approaches to the problems. once again you're treating a symptom and you're not going after the root cause of the problem. >> reporter: perhaps no place symbolizes the impact of tightened border security quite like this place. this is one of the smallest
legal border checkpoints you're going to find. this is the crossing in big ben national park. literally two little boats and a guy who rows you across. it's a small town of 200 people. its lifeline is the tourists that venture across the rio grand for the tama lays at jose falcon's restaurant. >> it's very nice to live here. >> reporter: lilia runs the restaurant her father opened in 1973, but after 9/11, the united states closed the border crossing and the town slowly started dying. falcons had to close. the entry point reopened almost four years ago and falcon's is back. but lilia falcon worries about donald trump's crackdown on immigration and border security. if that border crossing goes -- >> then the town again will be dead again.
it would be hard, very hard again. we wouldn't like to go through it again. >> reporter: it's the chance of taking this rowboat to tore side that just might be the best $5 you'll ever spend. >> ed, you've travelled the length of the entire southern border, almost 2,000 miles. you've seen the wall that exists, seen where it stop, seen the mountains, seen the rivers, the tunnels. what has stood out the most? >> reporter: there's little moments like that in south texas where we saw a stack of ladders that had been abandoned next to one of the border walls, clearly left by migrants who had used these ladders to scale over that wall. full of moments like that. but overall what has really struck me this week reporting this series is the sense that you get from people that the changes they expect to see here at the dawn of the donald trump administration is very similar to the changes that were sparked in the years after 9/11. and there's that sense from
these border communities that the changes will be that dramatic here in the years ahead. >> all right. ed lavandera, thank you for that incredible series that i think has opened the eyes for so many watching. "out front" now, i want to go to the former arizona sheriff. thank you, sheriff. i appreciate you taking the time. >> of course. >> ed lavandera has spent the past month on this special series traveling across the american/mexican border. tonight you saw the massive tunnels. i know you're familiar with those. >> yes. >> one where we see ed right now 70 feet underground. >> right. >> underneath the existing fence that exists. so do you still think a wall is the right answer? i mean, you can't put a wall 70 feet below the ground. if you do, they go down 80, right? they've got ventilation, electricity. they've got it wired for rail. >> right. well, i could tell you that largely what we're looking at, there's the illegal immigration issue, there's the drug smuggli smuggling issue, which are
largely these tunnels are used almost exclusively for, and then there's the larger issue which i think wasn't eve an part of this conversation, is the national security threat posed by an unsecured border. look, if we had over a half a million just basic illegals, people who wanted to come here to the united states for a better life, for a job, for health care, whatever purpose, far more never were apprehended. so it stands to reason that if basic illegals can come in here in that volume, that people that have terrorist intentions with military training and deliberate plans could sneak through as well. >> i understand your point. this has been raised by middle eastern leaders and others. fair point. i'm getting at would the wall stop them or anyone else that wants to come in? >> yes, it would. >> why? >> and the reason i say that, i served as an army officer commanding up to 1,100 soldiers in yuma. there not only when you had
14-foot-tall corrugated steel, no-climb fence, far more important than the fence is enforcing the law. when there's real consequences behind it, and that's what we haven't had, under both democrats and republicans. there's a lot of blame to go around. donald trump is going to enforce the laws currently on the books. >> that's one thing but isn't that different than the wall? we went through the tunnel issue, 70 feet underground. a wall doesn't help with that. he found the stacks of ladders. the wall in many places ed went, it's 10 to 20 feet high, easy to scale or use a ladder. eld was able to go under the wall, slither underneath it in a couple places. i see your point about consequences and all your points -- >> there's a proof of concept -- it does. in yuma that i point out 94% reduction in illegal entries. that's a secure border. that's what it looks like. and it's because you have
physical barrier but you also need the enforcement. there's nine sectors of the border patrol along the southwest border an very few were actually enforcing what was called streamline. an actual consequence if you breached that barrier, that wall, you were deported and there were consequences behind it. most of the border there was disparate enforcement. full catch and release was happening and so when there's no consequence and no enforcement, of course, my deputies have arrested people 16, 22 times. they keep returning. and hay whooi wouldn't they? because there's no consequence or punishment. that's what's really been the issue here, far more than a wall, far more than any other issue that people think is going to solve it. it's going to be enforcement of u.s. laws. >> all right, sheriff. thank you very much. i appreciate your time. >> thank you, erin. anytime. next, my next guest is the founder of patron, the tequila.
he'll tell you exactly how much more it will cost you to buy a bottle of patron if trump enforces his tax. and donald trump echoing steve bannon, calling the media the opposition. untains, and racetra. and now much of that same advanced technology is found in the audi a4. with one notable difference... ♪ the highly advanced audi a4, with available traffic jam assist. ♪ (bell chimes) ♪
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breaking news, in a rare press conference today one of the richest men in the world, the mexican billionaire carlos slim offering to negotiate with president trump on trump's behalf. out front now, billionaire businessman john paul desoria, the co-founder of patron tequila produced in mexico and john paul mitchell systems. our biggest number, the tax that president trump is again threatening to put on inputs from mexico to pay for the wall. you make and then export patron from mexico. if the tax comes into effect, what happens? >> if it comes into effect, unfortunately with all due respect, the mexican government doesn't pay for it, the u.s. consumer does. if the tax comes across, we have to raise our prices. we can't make the tequila in the united states. our quality tequila has to be
made in mexico by law, can't make it here, so it's passed on to our distributor, onto the retailer, which will pass on o e the consumer. when that happens, will people stop buying patron? probably not because people want to treat themselves to the quality, but will it affect the mexican government? i think it will affect the united states citizen more than the u.s. government, i really do -- or if the mexican government. >> in your individual case, a few dollars more with that tax? >> it will be a few dollars more a bottle with the tax but the consumer in the united states will be paying for it, not the mexican government. i think we have to take a different look at that. >> when you talk about that, this tax, that's what it means for patron. we buy auto parts, car, truck, a lot of oil. it's the fourth biggest supplier of oil to the united states. trump was asked about the point you're making, he said the tax, whether it would be passed along to consumers here in america. and i want to play for you his answer and get your reaction. >> sure.
>> well, i think some of it may get passed along but it also creates jobs. so i'm not against something like that but with respect to mexico something else could happen which would be much more positive for both mexico and the united states. >> he says i think some may get passed along but it also creates jobs. fair? >> well, you have to -- not quite. we have to really think this one out a little bit because oil, for example, and food is a commodity. if you raise the price by 20% because of whatever taxation there is, the consumer at the other end is going to pay for it. they're going to pay for it across the line. so i think they may want to think that one out a little bit. you'll be paying more for vegetables, more for gas that comes from mexico, and if such a large percentage that we use comes from mexico, it only makes sense that the only gas companies have to charge more money. so the u.s. consumer's going to pay for it. mr. trump is a smart fellow and i think mr. trump wants to do what's right, but i do think
they have to think this out a little bit more. now, when it comes to renegotiating maybe a trade pact, that's different. i know when i ship into mexico for paul mitchell hair care products, we have a duty of 16%, so we have to charge a little more money to the mexican people. they pay it because the quality of the product. so going both ways it definitely affects one another. but i know that going down there, we get charged 16% going down. >> which i think is actually an important point because people may conflate the wall with nafta itself. and off lot of issues with that. but you're saying as part of ngata, when they sell here, they there's no tariff, right? that's why he's talking about putting one on. when you go down there, you're paying right now 16% tariff. >> that is correct. that is correct. that's correct. there's no question about it. but going back to mexico paying for the wall, the way it's stated right now, i'm sure they'll review it and change it
a little bit, the u.s. consumer pays for it, not mexico. i think they'll look at it maybe a little more seriously and figure out what may work and won't work. i think across the line a 20% tax i don't think will be advantageous to our people or jobs. it won't affect our jobs as far as i know one bit. unless he only charged people that were u.s. manufacturers that ship it right back to the united states, maybe that's different. i don't know. maybe it will equalize what money they're saving so they'll hire more people in this nation. i don't know. but when it comes to things like products made in mexico that can't be made anywhere else or commodities like food, it's the american citizens that pay for it. they may want to rethink that. >> john paul, thank you very much. for all of that information. appreciate it. >> pleasure. and next, we're going to go inside the white house to find out who is closest literally because we have a seat map, people, to the ultimate seat of power.
who's d closest to trump? sara murray is out front. >> reporter: donald trump's west wing is packed with a team of advisers with often sharp elbows. in the midst of a tumultuous first week in the west wing, it appears trump is adopting the management style that suited him in business and helped him win the white house. and trying to apply it to washington's bureaucracy. >> put me into the boardroom as your representative and i will deliver for you like no politician has ever delivered, believe me. believe me. >> reporter: previous presidents have churned to their chief of staff to ensure order in the white house. trump has lavished praise on him. >> reince is fantastic. reince has been an unbelievable leader. >> reporter: but he's given reince priebus equal authority to steve bannon, trump's chief
strategist and senior counselor. they're joined in the white house by counselor to the president, kellyanne conway, someone trump holds in high esteem. >> there is no den she will not go into. when my men are petrified to go on a certain network, i say kellyanne, will you -- absolutely, no problem. and she gets on and just destroys them. >> reporter: rounding out is jared kushner. >> i sort of stole her husband. he is so great. >> reporter: his influence grew throughout the campaign and trump trusts him completely. when it comes to the prime white house real estate, priebus claims the office traditionally reserved for the chief of staff, complete with a fireplace and conference table. kushner snapped up the spot closest to the oval office and bannon is sandwiched between them. conway is settling into a space on the second floor previously inhabited by obama senior adviser valerie jarrett. ♪ money, money, money
trump has a penchant for competing power centers and a variety of viewpoints. in his view, that means the strongest proposal wins but it can breed turf wars and internal rivalries. david axelrod, who worked in the obama administration, served up even stronger warnings, noting a model chain of command and staff spats can lead to severe kwepss. >> there is a big difference between running the trump organization or even a campaign and running the white house because the decisions and statements and actions a white house takes can have grave implications, mortal implications, for people here and around the world. >> reporter: sara murray, cnn, washington. >> thanks to sarah. with the xfinity tv app,
times" reported several trump aides had repeated contacts with russian intelligence in the year run-up before the election. they cite electronic intercepts. just today a question along those same lines was asked of sean spicer at the briefing. >> back in january, the president said that nobody in his campaign had been in touch with the russians. now, today, can you still say definitively that nobody on the trump campaign, not even general flynn, had any contact with the russians before the election? >> my understanding is that what general flynn has now expressed is that during the transition period -- well, we were very clear that during the transition period he did speak with the ambassador -- >>'m talking about during the campaign. >> there is nothing that would conclude to me that anything has changed with respect to that time period. >> a quick timeline with how we got here. december 29, the obama administration reveals new sanctions on russia. december 30. putin says russia will not retaliate.
that same time, that same day this tweet from then president-elect trump. great move on delay by vladimir putin. i always knew he was very smart. sometime after december 30th, communications between flynn and russia's ambassador are intercepted by u.s. intelligence officials. the white house is warned about flynn by the department of justice on january 26th of this year, and thanks to sean spicer, we know the president found out the same day. >> immediately after the department of justice notified the white house counsel of the situation, the white house counsel briefed the president and a small group of his senior advisers. >> from that date on, the question is, how long did it take for the erosion of trust to occur that led to flynn's resignation? that was the reason given today. on january 28th, michael flynn was in the room when the president called russian president vladimir putin. michael flynn came into the white house briefing room and
communicated for the administration to another nation state. >> iran is now feeling emboldened. as of today we are officially putting iran on notice. thank you. >> then just this past weekend, michael flynn was there as the president and japanese prime minister shinzo abe discussed what they would do to respond to a ballistic missile test by north korea. that was just 72 hours ago. so when did the erosion of trust between the president and michael flynn occur? let's bring out our panel members tonight, former chief of staff at the cia and the pentagon, jeremy bash is with us this evening. nbc's katy tur who covered the entire trump campaign from the start, and radio personality charlie sykes. good evening to you all. i'm going to begin with you, jeremy. to believe this story, any of it, all of it, you have to believe that flynn called the russian ambassador and said, in effect, when these new measures
come out, don't worry, we're going to have your back. and further, you have to believe that he was either acting on his own or with tacit approval. do we have that right? >> we have a united states that is completely at odds with anything we've seen in foreign relations, and that is a total u.s. capitulation to all of russia's natives. the second bit of context, brian, is that we have under way at this hour, not past tense but present tense, at this hour a russian operation to influence u.s. policy to do what i just described, to force america to do things it wouldn't ordinarily do. that intelligence operation is under way.
they were trying to get to the national security apparatus, including the national security adviser, and it worked. that's the whole thing. it worked in this case. our policy changed and they attempted to change it and it worked. and so -- that is the big question looming over all of this, which is why. what is it that caused our national security adviser and our president to do these things that are so completely at odds with american interests, and now tonight we have one of the missing pieces of the puzzle, which is possible cooperation discussion between the trump campaign and the russian government at the very time the russian government was trying to influence the campaign to favor donald trump. >> and jeremy malcolm nance was
people is, will those suffice or do we need a joint inquiry, a select committee or even an independent review? >> katy tur, before we swing over to you, i want to run what is now a critical bit of on-the-fly interview in the doorway of air force one, a doorway that separates a conference room and the cockpit where the president and first lady were. the president and first lady were on their way to mar-a-lago in midair and this question came up. >> general flynn had conversations with the russians before you were sworn in? >> i don't know. i haven't seen it. what report is that? >> they were reporting that you talk to the ambassador of russia before you were inaugerated about sanctions. >> i'll look at that. >> katy tur, what did people think when you were in the midst of covering the only campaign for president in our modern history that had russia as such a kind of sympathetic element? >> what did people or the general public think or trump supporters?
many of his aides seemed to have ties to russia in one way or another. paul manafort being one. it didn't make sense for donald trump to continue to be so cozy. nobody could quite figure out why he was doing so. and the campaign and the transition in the white house has never given an explanation that goes beyond, we think we need to reset relations. >> charlie, listen to tom freedman, one line from his column that went up tonight. "we need to know whom trump owes and who might own him and we need to know it now." how serious is all of this in your view one month into this administration? >> it's extraordinarily serious, because nothing adds up. as katy was saying, this whole love affair doesn't add up, this explanation for firing the general doesn't add up. so who made the decision not to tell mike pence? why did they sit on all of this? if, in fact, he had done and said nothing that was inappropriate, why, then, did he feel it necessary to lie to mike pence? if, in fact, he was executing exactly what the policy would be?
the cover story doesn't add up, this whole story and this relationship doesn't. here's the distinction. this is not just a matter of a scandal of somebody having an affair or something like that. this goes fundamentally to the foreign policy of the country. and i think that republicans on capitol hill need to look at this and ask themselves, do they actually want to investigate this, or do they want to appear that, in fact, they are slow walking and covering up something that may have fundamental significant to the country. >> katy, we learned today that vice president mike pence didn't learn until thursday, but other people knew. sean spicer said the white house concluded when this was briefed to them it wasn't a legal issue, and he said the president was proved instinctively correct. >> that it was a trust issue is what they're trying to make this out to be. i was speaking tonight with a senior white house source, and i
asked that person why the world vice president pence wasn't told about this sooner. and the source said it was attorney-client privilege. don mcgann only told the president because that's who he is sworn to, and the president didn't tell vp pence because this was a very close hold, because they were still investigating exactly what happened. there are a lot of questions surrounding that, though, because mike pence went on national television and vouched for general mike flynn, said he did not talk sanctions. there's also a lot of questions surrounding how in the world general flynn could forget about talking sanctions when there is a lot of questions about how much of the conversation, at least one, that he had with the russian ambassador was dedicated to talking sanctions. it's not something you forget, it is a breach of protocol. even this white house official told me this was something that they cannot understand why flynn would mislead the administration
about it, they cannot understand why it went on for so long. >> hey, jeremy, your former boss, leon panetta, who is not given to hyperbole, said something today that really got the attention of a lot of people. quote, i've never been so nervous in my lifetime about what may or may not happen in washington. i don't know whether this white house is capable of responding in a thoughtful or careful way should a crisis erupt. you can do hit and miss stuff over a period of time, but at some point i don't give a damn what your particular sense of change is about, you can't afford to have change become chaos. >> i talked to him and that is a mild way of how he is feeling. leon and carla panetta made their way from ellis island, raised their children.
he worked for nixon and came to congress as a democrat or for bill clinton as a white house chief of staff and budget director and then served as secretary of defense. this is a person who has dedicated his life to national security and bipartisanship, i should say. he believes that vet fabric of our government is tearing apart. the ability to protect our country is tearing apart, the ability for washington to function properly is tearing apart, and i think he's very, very worried about the tone being set by this administration and particularly about the deceit that is coming forward from the white house about this and other issues. >> a little bit of housekeeping there. we just showed a photo of former president trump sounding a lot different than candidate trump whenon it comes to leaks, we heard from katy, when "the 11th hour" continues.
the michael flynn resignation
>> this just came out. this just came out. wikileaks, i love wikileaks. amazing how nothing is secret today when you talk about the internet. >> we love wikileaks. boy, they have really -- wikileaks. they have revealed a lot. >> that came out on wikileaks. >> we're back with our panel, jeremy, katy and charlie. jeremy, you and i haven't been around forever but we've been around long enough to be, i think, stunned as the weaponized nature of these leaks, the number of these leaks and where we can surmise they're coming from in the organization. not to impune any of your friends, but perhaps some of them from people you know, people who are in your contacts. some are motivated by patriotism, some by revengreveng it's not nice to take on career civil servants, and when they feel the home team is on fire or in danger, they will get it out through journalists. >> i don't know, brian. it's hard to speculate. i certainly wouldn't speculate that it's any people i know or people i've worked with. but look, i think there is a
broader issue here which is under normal circumstances, you're very concerned about leaks because they reveal intelligence sources and methods. you're less worried about them when they reveal sort of the overall conclusion or what people are looking at or investigating. and so i do take leaks seriously when they reveal sources and methods, but i think in this case, brian, we have a situation where the discussion in the press is really about what investigators are looking at, what the fbi has been probing, not how they've been probing it or how they've been collecting their information per se, except for some generalitiesgeneralitie important to note that without this coming forward, michael flynn would be in the white house without risk. what's worse? >> people in actual america are waiting for economics and jobs to come through.
in the interim, here is what we have to discuss on national media. have you ever seen a situation like this inside any white house, republican or democrat? >> no, because nobody ever has. what do they say about karma, karma is something or other? >> i can't repeat it. >> the president actually has a point when he talks about the flood of leaks. you actually have the intelligence community in this country in open resurrection of this president. there are fundamental issues here, but what we are seeing is also unprecedented. maybe it happened under nixon. but there is a flood of leaks. and this, by the way, it is like one shot across the bow after another to the whi house. we know what you did last summer, click. we know everything, and it's a drip, drip, drip. and you wonder how this is playing when they realize they've reached the end of spin, that the people who have this
information are not going to be intimidated by tweets. they're not going to back off, and they have -- who knows. they appear to be showing their hand that they have everything. >> katy, at a simple time when reagan was president and you weren't born -- >> i was born, excuse me. >> -- i had it up to my keester with leaks, and that was supposed to be shocking. we also have in this white house four or five different centers of power and that hasn't worked itself. >> there are so many centers of power. if you heard it told, there's the priebus-sean spicer-katie walsh faction, and there is kellyanne conway faction, and they're all working to take down the other and fight for the year of donald trump. not to mention the white house staffers who don't really have an allegiance and who are there just witnessing this for the first time. there is a lot of folks out there who are -- who have their own self-interests at play who also want to protect the west
wing in the way they believe the west wing should behave. i want to say something, though. it seems like when you talk about donald trump in leaks and talk about donald trump in coverage, everything is fine so long as it is favorable to him, period. and when it's not, then they are the opposition, they're the enemy. i found it interesting today that sean spicer kept bringing up charles krauthamer as a defense for the administration. when charles krauthamer was number one enemy for donald trump early on. when i brought him up and said what he called donald trump, called him a rodeo clown. he said, why would this guy say that about me when he can't even buy a pair of pants? >> thanks to our panel, thanks to our guests, jeremy bash, katy tur, charlie sykes. we'll have you all back in short order. coming back after the next break, the white house argues that the president is tough on russia. that's next when we continue.
comments about russia's leader. >> i've always felt, you know, fine about putin. i think that he is a strong leader, he's a powerful leader. >> i think i would have a very, very good relationship with putin, and i think i would have a very, very good relationship with russia. >> he's also a guy who annexed crimea, invaded ukraine, supports assad in syria, supports iran, is tryingo undeine ouinuence in key regions of the world, and according to our intelligence community, probably is the main suspect for the hacking of the dnc computers. >> nobody knows that for a fact, but do you want me to start naming some of the things that president obama does at the same time? >> but do you want to be complemented by that former kgb officer? >> i think when he calls me brilliant, i'll take the compliment. >> putin is a killer. >> we have a lot of killers. do you think our country is so innocent?
>> given those on the record comments from the president, it's a fair guess that many in the briefing room wanted to ask sean spicer a follow-up on that point today. cnn's jim acosta was the first one to get a chance. >> you said earlier in your comments that the president has been incredibly tough on russia. how is that possible? he has made comment after comment over the course of the campaign, the transition, where he defended vladimir putin. >> with respect to russia, i think the comments that ambassador hailey made at the u.n. were extremely forceful and very clear that until they -- >> that's hailey, not the president. >> she speaks for the president, i speak for the president. all of this administration, all the actions, all the words in this administration are on behalf of this president. i don't think we can be any clearer on the president's commitment. >> they all speak for the president except when they don't. remember what candidate trump wrote on twitter last may. don't believe the biased and
hallie jackson, thank you. right now on msnbc, tale of the tapes. lawmakers from both sides of the aisle call for president trump to turn over any recordings he may have of his krfrgconversati with ousted fbi director james comey. plus, recording history. new reports say president trump has for a long time secretly recorded phone conversations when he was in private business. the reporter who broke the story will tell us what the president's former associates say and what it could mean for staffers now. and breaking right now, cyber chaos. the largest cyber attack ever is spreading by the minute, stealing information and demanding ransom from hundreds of thousands of users across more than 150 countries. what you need to do to protect yourself. good morning, everyone. i'm chris jansing in beautiful washington, d.c. this morning, democrats are ratcheting up their pressure on president trump on not one but two fronts. for starters, demanding any takes the president may have of
last week was regarded the worst of the presidency, and now a series of polls show new lows and approval ratings for president trump. any reaction there to what has been an onslaught of criticisms, frankly for both sides of the aisle? >> reporter: yeah, the polls to which you refer to show his approval rating below 40%, 54% of americans disapproving the president's handling of his job, his responsibilities as president of the united states. what is striking is the numbers are not too far removed from where the unfavorable numbers were on election day. last year the president and his allies are quick to point this out as well, but be fair, the president is not focusing on the negative headlines. doing what is best publicly to ignore issues regarding his comments about the tape. sean spicer we heard last week say frankly they had nothing nothing further about it. he'll face other questions as democrats try to make an issue out of this right now. widely the administration is
focusing on what they view a potential president. the president's first foreign trip heading overseas later this week, departure scheduled for friday, this is an opportunity to show they can successfully execute on the significant issue of great significance, given the fact it will be on the world stage, they view this as a unique, quote, global moment, as described to us. whetherist? >> and in the meantime, even before he leaves for that big trip, we may hear about a new fbi director, eight candidates we are interviewed over the weekend by attorney general jeff sessions and deputy attorney general jeff rosenstein, what do we hear could happen before he gets on air force one. >> reporter: it seems unlikely they will get this done over the course of the next five days before he departs. of the eight interviews conducted by the attorney general and the deputy attorney general, president trump has not participated in any of the in-person interviews to take place. he'll likely only be involved with interviewing in person,
some of the finalists, whenever that may or may not occur. though the president himself said he expects this will be a, quote, fast decision that could come before the end of this week. you showed some of the names. we heard from the group, the association that represents current and former fbi agents, they are putting their efforts behind the former congressman, mike rogers, formally the chair of the house intelligence committee, also a former special agent with the fbi. they believe he would be the best pick, andrew mccabe, the acting fbi director at the moment. what is striking is you have eight politicians, senator john cornyn, excuse me, of texas, a big trump supporter, lindsey graham, another republican, saying under different circumstances that would be a good pick, but right now the president should go with someone who is not a partisan politician. chris? >> peter alexander at the white house, thanks to you. over to mike baquero there at
capitol hill now, donald trump posted, james comey better hope that there are no tapes of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press. and it seems democrats and republicans agree if there are tapes, the president should turn them over. what can you tell us about where congress is on this right now? >> well, chris, it's the latest time the president's tweets have put the president in a position, where you talk aut tapes and recordings harkening back to water gate. we have heard from aumber of republicans very unseizure wieae tweets, including a couple on the sunday shows, when asked, if, in fact, president trump should be turning over many of the tape recordings, if they exist. >> if there are any tapes, they have to be turned over. you can't be cued about tapes. >> if there are such recordings, i think that be subpoenaed and probably have to turn them over. >> i've asked to make sure the tapes are preserved if they
or high profile items or controversial items, we'll see these time and time again, whether it be health care or the republicans looking into the russian meddling or work in tandem with what is already going on in the senate intelligence committee. incidentally, rod rosenstein was invited by mitch mcconnell to brief all senators in a closed-door session about the progress of the investigation on the fbi side. no date yet set for that. chris? >> mike baquero, thank you for that. let's bring in mark fisher, co-author of the biography "trump revealed." also joining us, white house correspondent for reuters, aisha rasco and mike schmidt. you have been talking about
visiting with donald trump. >> so he didn't push a button, he didn't pick up the phone, everything just appeared. >> right. and he's been up front on this through the years. in fact, during the reporting for the book, he told several of my colleagues that he was recording their conversations when they were doing phone interviews with him. >> so aisha, you were talking about the calls now to turn over the tapes, are we looking at a showdown potentially here? >> well, if there are tapes, it seems like they will have pressure to actually turn them over to produce them. if they are not, then it seems like this could be a bit of an embarrassment for the white house. this is something that president trump brought up on his own. as senator graham said, he said you can't be cute about tapes. so he's going to have to, the white house is going to have to address this one way or another, you would think. >> in the meantime, michael, our new nbc news/wall street journal poll finds that just 15% think
congress should be the ones to handle the russia investigation. this other number is astonishing to me. 78% are calling for an independent commission or a special prosecutor. the question is, will there be any movement on the republican side? i don't know, those town halls where we have been seeing people sort of switching a little bit from talking about health care to getting upset about the comey firing. what are you hearing? >> well, whatever political impact there has been on the firing of comey with the russia investigation, the new details we have learned, it doesn't seem like it's enough to push the issue forward, to push the republicans to feel like they need tind po push the independe investigation. it fills out the story more about whether there was collusion with russia to actually put enough pressure on the republicans. because at this point we have learned a lot about what the government knows about this. and it's clear that they are going to hold steady and not go forward with it.
>> mark, 29% of americans approve of president trump's decision to fire comey, 38% disapprove, but 32% don't have it on their radar. what do you make of that? >> i think a lot of people in the country don't follow washington news as closely as viewers here might. and when you go out to trump rallies and talk to people, they are only tuning in sporadically. and when they tune in, they tune in because the president is achieving something they wanted in the first place. so there's a lot of controversies like this one that registers as just more washington noise, more washington backfighting, to a lot of people who are political observers. >> meantime, michael, the article that you wrote on friday continued to have reaction. you elaborated on your reporting that at that big january 27th dinner at the white house, president trump demanded essentially loyalty from then fbi director comey.
i want to play what the president said when asked about that in an interview that aired over the weekend. >> apparently "the new york times" is selling that you asked comey whether or not you had his loyalty was possible inappropriate. >> i read that article. i don't think it is inappropriate. >> did you ask that question? >> no, no, i didn't, but i don't think it would be a bad question to ask. i think loyalty to the country, loyal tty to the united states important. depends how you define loyalty. number two, i don't know how that got there. because i didn't ask that question. >> so michael, what did you think when you saw that? the president's reaction to what you wrote? >> well, you know, either the president doesn't recall what happened in that meeting or he's trying to portray his question of loyalty to a larger thing about the country. but our understanding from talking to several people that have spoken to mr. comey about this is that it was a question whether mr. comey would be loyal
to mr. trump. mr. trump came back to it two times in the meeting. and by the end of it said to mr. comey, well, do i have your honest loyalty? comey said, you have my honest loyalty but comey understood he wasn't giving loyalty to trump that trump really wanted. if you study comey, you know that trump takes loyalty extremely seriously and comey, for whatever you think about his judgment, takes his independence very seriously. so we probably should have seen this, you know, break up coming earlier than we did. >> well, mark, as someone who has studied trump, as michael wright, should we have seen this coming? and what do you make of the whole loyalty thing? >> loyalty is very important to donald trump. it always has been. he's really worked throughout his career until joining or entering the white house with a very tight inner circle of literally no more than half a dozen executives who have immediate and constant access to him. those people are -- >> he didn't get that the fbi
director has to be independent? >> no, because the way he's always worked with the tight circle of people, they have been loyal to him and he shows loyalty to them. they tend to stay with him for 20, 30 years at a time. so the idea that he's disloyal and that he just discards people is really not the case. what happens is, though, there's a second tier of people around him, and they are essentially road kill as far as he is concerned. straight out, unless you are in the inner circle, he really doesn't feel he owes a great deal of loyalty to those people. and to comey, he obviously fits in the latter category. he's not in there every day nor should he be as fbi director. >> i see where the white house is, they have the know, his aidss have to know what a bad week it is for him, do they think they can turn the page with the trip he's taking, turn the page if he names a nominee for fbi director, maybe he can get bipartisan support?
>> i think that's the idea. they will try to move forward as much as they can. that they will try to focus on this trip. the trip will give him the opportunity to be very presidential. he's going to be meeting with foreign dignitaries. so it gives them a chance to be on foreign soil and kind of get away from all the troubles they have had on u.s. soil recently. and to kind of present a more dignified image of president trump. of course, with all of this going on, the question is, how much has he been able to prepare for these meetings? how much has he been able to prepare for this trip, because that can open up another can of worms if he gets over there and there are issues. >> there have been a few diversions. ayesha rascoe, thank you, michael schmidt, appreciate it. next up, log in and lookout. right now, vicious ransomware is demanding users pay for information. we'll have tips on how to protect yourself and explain why this attack is particularly dangerous, threatening banks,
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this affected hospitals, schools and companies worldwide by encrypting the files and demanding payment to unlock them. now two versions are being detected. nbc's kelly cobiella is here. what do we know about how fast this is spreading and where? >> reporter: companies and organizations in asia have been pretty hard-hit this morning. but that may just be a question of timing. a lot of the companies and organizations were already at the end of business friday when this started spreading. so maybe a case of those booting up their computers for the first time and finding out they have been infected. now, having said that, there are some new versions of this virus coming out now, china has detected a version. they say it spreads much faster and is harder to kill than the first one we saw on friday. but so far we're not hearing about secondary waves of attacks. nothing reported in europe or
the united states, but american computers along with the rest of the world could still be at risk. the big key here is whether or not your computers or computer networks have been updated with the latest security patches from microsoft. chris? >> meantime, a researcher who is believed to have stopped the attack over the weekend is talking about how he did it. what do we know? >> reporter: yeah, it's a little bit technical when you get into the weeds about how exactly he activated this kill-switch. but he's a 22-year-old cyber security researcher. he says he first noticed the attack friday morning, didn't think much of it at first, until he saw it spreading across hospitals in england and scotland. he says he found a domain name that was linked to this malware. he registered it and noticed the virus slowed down in how quickly it was spreading. he also said, chris, that he was surprised by its lack of sophistication. he said it looked like something that someone had written in their free time, which may offer
some clues as to who may have started this. >> or how bad the security systems are in some of these places. kelly cobiella, thank you. i want to bring in a firm that specializes and preventing and investigating cyber breaches. i just want to go to what she just said, which is if it's true, that this wasn't very sophisticated, but it's having this global impact, what are the implications here? >> it doesn't need to be that sophisticated as long as it is efficient and getting the job done. i think that is probably the biggest problem is that this code doesn't need to be that complex just to do a simple test. >> that's pretty scary when you think what could happen as a result that the carmaker had to shut down. i mean, why are people looking at this and saying, this is horrible. this is the worst we have ever seen?
>> no, it's that it spreads by itself. in most previous cases, you would actually get an e-mail, you would have to click on the e-mail or click on a link and become infected. in this case, it can spread from computer to computer by itself. it doesn't need any help, doesn't need any user interaction, which makes it so dangerous. >> what do we know about where it may have come from? vladimir putin said the virus originated from u.s. intelligent services and that launching the viruses could backfire on those who created them. any indication this is from u.s. intelligence services? >> well, it's complex. no, i think he's referring to the fact that the vulnerability that he's using to spread from computer to computer was part of a release that has been allegedly tied to the u.s. intelligence service. writing the code, the malware, written and publicly released has been used to spread the malware from system to system. >> if you open your computer and
it is already there as opposed to most of us becoming pretty savvy on not opening things we don't know, what do you do to protect yourself? >> we have the ch pa, make sure you have the latest security patches. now this patch for the microsoft operative system was leased a month ago. unfortunately in the health care sector, they have system that is can't be rebooted and this patch actually requires a reboot in order to take effect. so the patching and making sure you have the patches deployed as quickly as possible is critical. without that, you'll be in a lot of trouble. >> always back up what you have, right? because doesn't it take something like this. you said also don't pay because there's a question about if you need the stuff, should you pay? >> we are not even sure yet if they are releasing files when you pay. there's been mixed reporting about that. so, yeah, not paying is two-fold. one, because if you pay, then you'll have to continue the attacks. and two, there's no guarantee that if you pay you'll get data back. >> adam myers from crowd strike,
good to see you. thank you for coming in. new turbulence if you can believe it for united airlines today. a major security breach there putting pilots and flight attendants on alert worldwide. information posted online that is having global ramifications. and any moment on capitol hill, president trump will give remarks at the national peace officer's remoral service. we'll bring that to you live. violence against police is an issue. the president discussed it this morning while signing a proclamation at the white house. >> last year 118 officers died in the line of duty. and of those, 66 were victims of malicious attacks. these attacks increased by nearly 40% from the year 2015. this must end.
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up an appeal from the state. the appeals court had struck down the law saying it was passed by the republican legislature in the words of the ruling, with almost surgical precision to discriminate against african-american and minority voters. it imposed a tough new voter i.d. photo i.d. standard. it shaved seven days off the time for early voting. the appeals court said that was pro dominantly used by african-americans. it restricted the ability to pre-register before they were old enough to vote. and if they mistakenly voted out of precinct, your vote wouldn't count. it was repealed by the naacp and the obama administration. and today the supreme court said it would not appeal to overturn the rulings. the trump administration had not signed on and taken any position one way or the other about this case. so because of the supreme court's actions, it's dead. now the one thing i would note
here, chris, is there was a bit of a change in how north carolina viewed its own law. it was passed by the republican legislature, signed by the previous governor who was a republican, but as you know, there's now a democratic governor, he and his attorney general declined to defend this law, but the republican legislature said, nonetheless, they should be able to carry on the appeal. the chief justice john roberts today said because of the blizzard of filings, it was hard to tell where it stood. and he simply noted that because the supreme court declined to hear it, it doesn't mean it was ruling on the merits. he earlier indicated he would allow an appeal or allow the state to enforce the law while it was on appeal. but the supreme court when it declines these cases, you don't get a vote, you don't get a reason for declining to hear it. but in any event, this was the final blow to that law. >> nbc justice correspondent pete williams with the big ruling from north carolina from the supreme court. thank you so much. meantime, united airlines is issuing a safety alert to pilots
and flight attendants worldwide after a major breach in security protocols. united's procedures for gaining access to the cockpit were compromised. tom costello is joining me, what have you learned? >> reporter: chris, good morning. united like airlines carefully safeguards the information about how people can gain access to the flight deck. in other words, the keyboard pads. somehow that information got out. now the airline is quickly trying to fix that problem while reiterated two its entire staff that information, that security information, is very sensitive and should never be shared. this morning united airlines insists it's not a hack, but the procedures for gaining access to the flight deck were leaked. now the airline is moving fast to shore up its procedures. that could mean reprogramming the keypads on every united cockpit door with new access codes. veteran pilot captain john cox.
>> something like this information getting in the wrong hands is something that they are dealing with very quickly. >> reporter: since 9/11, every flight deck door on every commercial aircraft has been reinforced with steel. new planes come off the assembly lines with tougher fortified doors. to gain access to the cockpit, crew members must enter a secret keypad code. and airlines have their own confidential procedures for opening the door to flight attendants while in the air. if a pilot leaves the cockpit to use the restroom, many airlines require flight attendants to block the aisle with a food cart. >> so this is on our mind all the time. we are trained to be individuvi and our procedures are to remain in constant contact with the cabin. >> reporter: in a statement, united airlines tells nbc news the safety of our customers and crew is our top priority. and united utilizes a number of measures to keep our flight deck secure beyond door access information. in the interim this protocol ensures our cockpits remain
secure. critical since the united planes take off with passengers 4,500 each day. united says its notified the faa of the security breach. there is no reason to believe according to security officials that terrorists have gained access to this information, but they simply could take no chances. chris, back to you. >> nbc's tom costello, thank you for that. in less than an hour, the ninth sir kucircuit court of ap will hear whether they should reinstate president trump's travel ban. we'll speak to the first attorney general who filed a lawsuit against the original ban. we are also watching capitol hill where donald trump will speak at the memorial for fallen officers. will he stay on script or go rogue? he's done it before. we'll have that live.
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trail. joining me is the man who filed the first appeal against this. let's go to look at what rudy giuliani said about this in the past. >> donald j. trump is calling for a total and complete showdown of muslims entering the united states until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on. >> when he first announced it, he said muslim ban. he called me up and said, put a commission together, show me the right way to do it legally. >> now the administration argues that the hawaii judge's ruling was, quote, fundamentally wrong. partially because the revised order does not mention religion. what is your argument? >> well, our argument from the beginning and the reasons why the court struck down the original travel ban is because the statements are relevant to determining whether or not a
motivated factor behind the original travel ban and the revised travel ban was against the muslims. you can look at the context and the principles of the words involved, and the words speak repeatly clearly about what the intent was about. >> that's the intent of the man who is now president, but this three-judge panel is made up of appointees to former president clinton. he spoke out against the climate against muslims in this country. i want to play that for you. >> tough talking realism is all about how this group is a threat, that group is a threat and another group is a threat. does it mean we shouldn't be tough on terrorism committed by islamic radicals? of course not. but it means we shouldn't go around in a blind stupor mixing apples and oranges and terrifying some of the most talented, devoted people in this country who want to make their contribution and to help make us better. >> is broader public sentiment
and former president clinton, if he's right n particular, is that relevant to this case? >> what is relevant to the case is the constitution and the motivation behind creating the original muslim ban and the revised muslim ban. and it's clear from statements by and you aired them, the president and his advisers, what they intended to do, and take my word for it, there are federal judges appointed by democratic presidents and republican presidents who agreed that the statements are relevant. >> i want to get ahead or don't want to get ahead of the ninth circuit court. but what are your feelings about it? >> the arguments based on the con con city tush will be appealing to judges of all sorts. there's a reason why president trump did not appear our victories in the federal courts of the original travel ban to
the u.s. supreme court because frankly he knew he would lose. so the arguments are good, to challenge the revised travel ban, but you're right, it will be decided by the u.s. supreme court. >> i want to ask you quickly about another topic because you were one of the 19 other attorneys, among 19 attorneys general, last week requesting the independent investigation into the russian involvement. the latest poll showed 15% of americans essentially trust congress to do this, but realistically, you know how politics works, do you see this happening? >> that's a really good question. it is certainly my hope that folks on both sides of the aisle will see if this issue transcends politics. that this is a threat to the constitutional framework. my hope is certainly that republicans in the senate and congress will come to the realization and support the effort, which is so critical right now. >> so that is your hope, but what is your expectation? >> you know, if i had to bet my life on it, i think it will happen. i think folks in congress will
recognize how fundamental this is to a threat to our framework and democracy. i spent my life working as a member of the attorney general and not of congress, but that's my expectation. >> bob ferguson, thank you so much, we appreciate it. >> thank you, appreciate it. this morning north korea says the ballistic missile can carry a large nuclear warhead following a successful launch over the weekend. check out this video of kim jong-un watching and celebrating the country's seventh test this year. the state-run news agency says kim is claiming the rocket can reach the u.s. military bases in the pacific, even the american mainland. the pentagon says the type of missile fired is not consistent with an intercontinental weapon. the u.n. security council is meeting tomorrow to discuss north korea and its missile program. still to come, a white house staff shake-up. could that be looming? a new report says president trump is looking to revamp his administration. it could affect top officials from the chief of staff reince priebus to press secretary sean
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going to fire you and replace him with sarah. >> oh, bless your heart, this is the first i've heard of that. >> get out! i have to find trump. i'm going to new york. the press interview is over! they are saying you're going to replace me with sarah. >> sean, come on, i would never do that. she doesn't have your special spice. salt and pepper. a little bit of sugar. >> melissa mccarthy and alec baldwin with their phenomenally popular take on sean spicer and president trump on "saturday night live." and though it was all for laughs on tv, there are reports that president trump is increasingly frustrated over the recent fallout stemming from the firing the of fbi director james comey and that he has been seriously considering potentially a seismic shake-up of white house staff. joining me now for the daily briefing on politic, mark murray and michael shear, white house correspondent for "the new york times." okay, mark, what do we know so far about the possibility of the white house shakeup? certainly, the name sean spicer
has been out there for months, nothing's happened yet. >> yeah, chris, according to the white house team, there's definitely smoke to all the stories that there does seem to be a mood for the shakeup. in addition to the white house, press secretary sean spicer, steve bannon, the top strategist as well as white house chief of staff reince priebus, but one really big factor to consider with all the talk is president trump's upcoming trip abroad where it is very unlikely that he would have just a wholesale of changes right before he goes on his first and biggest trip as president. and also, if you have all the people who were replaced, the question is who replaces them? right now we have seen a white house staff that there are people in place like deputy press secretary sarah huckabee sanders, but there aren't a whole lot of names particularly in the republican party bench who may be eager to join the white house. >> i mean, that's part of the problem, michael, isn't it?
because whether you're somebody who is being spoofed, and some might argue, maybe to the extreme on "saturday night live." or you're just somebody who is constantly taking it from the president when he gets gets frustrated, who wants to walk into that who has any kind of qualifications? >> i mean i think that's right. the sort of sense of chaos that has been here from day one from the moment he was elected during the transition and was inaugurated you know, the trump white house has been chaotic. that's why we have to take some of the reports with a grain of salt. it's possible tomorrow there could be a wholesale shake-up or it could be another day of chaos and more confrontation between sean spicer and the press and the whole thing continues. i think -- i don't quite think we know where -- what it's going to be. it would be a very strange time to do it two or three days before he takes office. >> timing has never been a strong suit of this white house. alex connen, the former white
house adviser for marco rubio talked about how this and how trump treats his communications people. he said, "trump is putting a lot on the backs of his spokespeople while simultaneously cutting their legs out from underneath them. there is nothing more discouraging or embarrassing for a spokesman than to have your boss contradict you." now, at the risk of your twitter feed blowing up, i mean, they are in a horrible position. >> i agree with alex totally. >> which never excuses that anybody in a communications department should lie. >> exactly. and previous press secretaries who i've covered have been careful not to come out to that podium especially with the seal of the white house right there and say, you know, and say something they know not to be true. but look, the stories that are shifting inside of this white house are shifting because the president is shifting them. and you know, so if the president sets out a message and then the vice president goes and repeats it and other members of
the cabinet repeat it and the press secretary sean spicer walks out there and repeats that, if it all changes later, it's real difficult for sean spicer. that is the dynamic that played out so dramatically last week with the firing of jim comey. i think that put a fine point on the whole problem. >> you still have, mark murray, so many positions that are open, ambassadorships not the least of them now family we have been hearing there's a possibility that ha callista gingrich, the wife of newt gingrich, could be going to the vatican or as it's its formerly called u.s. ambassador to the holy see. >> she is newt gingrichs wife and a devout catholic. it would be seen as a reward for someone like newt gingrich who was a top surrogate for the trump campaign certainly ended up defending them. sometimes made some critical comments. for the most part, a pretty big ally of president trump. if she got the plum position it
would be a reward. you do hit on an important point here is that this is not the most important of ambassadorships. the fact that we're starting to get word that this is a pick, instead of the more hot spot ambassadors and even more importantly, a lot of the important assistant secretaries, many of the people who would end up running the government in the next year or two still haven't been appointed yet. i think there's a good question on what this administration is prioritizing and what it's not. >> yeah, and what they have done and haven't done. now the president himself talking about getting rid of press briefings. i mean, do we think he's serious about that? >> it's hard to say. look, there was a question about this question of press briefings. they floated the idea maybe they would not have them. they did. there's a long tradition. i think typically white houses see them as valuable to them as well as because it's a way for them to get out their an message
and speak directly to the american public. i would be surprised if it goes away completely but i wouldn't be surprised if they make changes that diminish the traditional press and focus on press more friendly to them. >> mark, what do you make of that? there's been talk they could change the way it's held, maybe they would do it in smaller groups which is the way it was done at one point. they also had the traditional briefing. there is no modern precedent, is there, for not holding a pretty regular press briefing? especially i would think for someone who has been like it or not, pretty accessible. and that is this president. >> the white house press briefing is a way in which the news organizations and the american public is able to hold at a white house or administration accountable. if that goes and even if it's changed or tinkered, i think that would be kind of a blow to the public service and certainly the scrutiny that the media is able to apply. i would note while president
trump has held several bilateral news conferences and those are news conferences with two world leaders where each gets about two questions each, he still has only given one full-fledged news conference so far in his tenure as president. when he was talking about well, maybe i need to actually go out and do it a little bit more, i think a lot of us would like to see him answering more and more questions since he is the one who is better able to speak for his white house and administration more than a lot of other of his aides and associates. >> yeah, and the other point i guess is that when he goes out with somebody like lester holt, who is very well prepared he finds himself in an even more difficult situation post interview. so we shall see. but there is a press briefing scheduled today, right, michael? >> there is. we'll be there. >> mark murray, michael shear, appreciate it. we are now moments away. they're running a little late. the president speaking on capitol hill. we'll be right back.
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thought, the famous verizon ad. >> can you hear me now? good. >> can you hear me now? >> that's where we land. cell service needs to fall back. if people are using that trick to get off the phone with the president, that is amazing. >> works. >> liz, thanks for being on the show. this other guy, thank you for being on the show. that's our show sp. have a great thanksgiving friday. at 6:00 p.m., we have our speci special, "russia on trial," check that out. and "hardball" starts now. trump stands alone. let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews up in boston. for weeks, republicans is have distanced themselves from roy moore. they've pulled endorsements and urged him to drop out. and many have said they believe his accusers. let's watch. >> do you believe these allegations to be true?
you're talking about he said 40 years ago, this did not happen. so, you know. and i do have to say, 40 years is a long time. he's run eight races and this has never come up. so 40 years is a long time. >> well, both new york tabloids ran with the same headline today in response to that performance. and politico reports the president has vents about moore's accusers for days, expressing skepticism about their account. quote, during animated conversations with senior republicans and white house aides, the president said he doubted the stories presented by moore's accusers and questioned why they were emerging now, just weeks before the election. according to two white house advisers and two other people familiar with the talks. the white house advisers said the president drew parallels between moore's predicament and the one he faced just over a year ago. nine women have made accusations against moore, most of whom were in their teens when the incidents occurred, though they vary by age and by circumstances. some say moore just pursued them
for dates. others say he assaulted them. moore has denied them all. here are a few of those women in their own words. >> my mother went first, and then when i got up and went out, he grabbed my behind. just, hard. he grabbed it so hard that it was almost like fondling. like, it was such a hard -- like a -- i could even feel the dents of his fingers. >> mr. moore reached open and began groping me, him putting his hands on my breasts. i tried fighting him off while yelling at him to stop. but instead of stepping, he began grabbing my neck, attempting to force my head on to his crotch. >> he removed my clothing, he left the room and came back in wearing his white underwear. and he touched me over my clothing, what was left of it. and he, um, tried to get me to
touch him as well. but i was a 14-year-old child trying to play in an adult's world and he was 32 years old. >> for more, i'm joined by "national post" reporter, robert costa, yamiche alcindor and peter baker, all msnbc contributors. let's go in that order. robert, i always count on you to give me a sense of trump, the man. why is trump the man defending roy moore, the man? this person? >> it's pure politics, chris. when you listen to insiders in the wlohite house, they say the have to get this tax bill through. and the president is haunted by these accusations he faced los angeles yelast year. so he doesn't want to wade into this national debate about sexual harassment, even though he knows that these women are making pretty credible accusations. so the white house feels politically boxed in and the president has chosen to make a political decision that puts him
at odds with his own party and the congressional leadership. >> well, do you figure out based on the timing of this, if roy moore can win this fight, this special election, when would he take office? >> he would take office very soon after december 12th. >> so he might be a voter on the tax bill? >> he would. and that's the explanation coming from some white house officials. but there is a real divide in the course of my reporting, when i talk to senate republican sources and house republican sources. they say they don't want judge moore on capitol hill, because even if he would be a vote for taxes next year, they say long-term, he's a burden for the party in the 2018 midterms. >> let me go to yamiche on this. i've been thinking about this for the last couple of seconds, which is the poll numbers on the u.s. congress dreadful. because when they have an image of it, they have the leadership in mind. that's bad enough. if they have roy moore in mind, it will sink them even further. >> i think it will sink them even further, but this political calculation that president trump is making is one that is in some
ways questionable, because when you have someone like mitch mcconnell saying, not only, i think, saying, yes, i believe the women, and i don't want roy moore here, even before all of these allegations, mitch mcconnell was going to have a really, really hard time convincingry moore to vote for any bill for the good of the party. now, whether or not he would vote for tax reform is one thing, but long-term, when republicans have to put together other things like health care or infrastructure bills, roy moore is not going to be somebody's vote you'll be able to whip by telling him you have to do what's best for the republican party. so i think there's something going on there. but i as agree with robert that president trump is haunted by the own allegations he has made in recent days. there have been stories asking, what about the women who said president trump was sexually inappropriate to them? will they have a second voice? so within the media and within the party and democrats, when you're interviewing them about roy moore, the question always goes back to president trump and why he was able to send political success while still having all these other women
saying these things. >> peter baker, let me broaden this for a moment before we go further on the details. it seems to me by defending roy moore, president trump yields up, basically, forfeits any notion of being a moral arbitrator on any of these cases, including his predecessor, two or three before him, to bill clinton. that question came up thanks to kirsten gillibrand, the senator from new york. if he says roy's okay, does he have any say in any other case? it seems to me he doesn't. >> well, it's been very striking, of course, his own daughter, ivanka trump, said there's a special place in hell for people who molest children. and she obviously was talking about roy moore at that time. is he in fact being used by the democrat doug jones in his campaign ads against roy moore. her father taking a different position, basically saying, well, all you have is a he said/she said and it's 40 years ago and you have to listen to him as well as to the women. and you're right, it's a selective case. he tweeted out against al franken, the senator from
minnesota. there was photographic evidence in that case. and what the white house would say is, look, al franken admitted what he did and therefore it was fair game for the president to talk about. but it does raise questions about when he's going to be a moral arbitrator, a leader of the country beyond a party figure. >> president trump called roy moore's opponent, doug jones, soft on crime. let's watch. >> i can tell you one thing for sure. we don't need a liberal person in there, a democrat, jones. i've looked at his record. it's terrible on crime. it's terrible on the border, it's terrible on the military. i'll tell you that we do not need somebody who's going to be bad on crime, bad on military, bad for the second amendment. >> bad on crime? for the record, jones is a former federal prosecutor who won convictions against two ku klux klan members for the 1963 bombing of the birmingham church that killed four young black girls. meanwhile, jones is making a
provocative argument against moore in a new web video his campaign released just today. it's pretty powerful. let's watch. >> leigh corfman, beverly young nelson, debbie wesson gibson, gloria thacker deeson, gena richardson, wendy miller, kelly harrison thorpe, and the list is growing. they were girls when roy moore immorally pursued them. now they are women, witnesses to us all of his disturbing conduct. will we make their abuser a u.s. senator? >> let me go back to robert costa. if again, the man for understanding the president personally. do you think the president's squirming about this personally? and i know he's out there saying this is false testimony, it's political, held-timed for that. and you know he's argued that the timing is disturbing, but the charges in themselves seem very credible and they make this guy look like some character out of some horror movie.
do you think trump is bothered to be on his side? >> those images, the statements of these women, it's troubling, it's emotional to see. sexual harassment is a tragedy for women. at the same time, we heard from president trump echoes the remarks of governor kay ivy of alabama, that they're trying to celebrate the growing referendum idea in alabama, that doug jones and other democrats are pushing and trying to separate that idea of making this a referendum on roy moore and make it about republican policies and republican politics. and that's the test case here in alabama. can the democrats score a win in the south by making this about politics and about the politics of people's personal choices, not just how they vote when they're on capitol hill. >> yamiche, it seems like they're trying to turn it into a british election, where you basically vote party no matter who the person is? >> i'll say that to someone who went to swing states in north
carolina, to ohio, right after the "access hollywood" tape came out, i talked to so many republican women who said, yes, i don't like the fact that the president trump said this. i don't like the fact that then candidate trump was accused of being sexually inappropriate with women. but at the end of the day, i need republicans policies, i'm pro-life, i believe in the tax reform that they're going to have. i believe in the way they look at the world. and as a result, i'm going to go with the party. because i know if i put hillary clinton in there, she's going to do democratic things that i don't agree with. so there are women who made that political calculation, and that's why president trump won overwhelmingly white women, because they looked at the women that were accusing president trump of acting inprotoly and said, you know, i feel bad for you, but i'm going to go with my party. so president trump isn't doing anything that's atypical of republicans. it's how he got into office. >> well, allies for roy moore have offered some truly bizarre defenses. catch this. we've saved this. on monday, pastor phillip bennam
offered perhaps the most ridiculous one yet. he said that moore dated younger girls for their purity. he also said that moore returned home in his 30s after serving in the military and going to law school and women his own age, moore's own age, were already married, so therefore, let's watch. >> many of the ladies that he possibly could have married were not available then. they were there are married. maybe somewhere. so he looked in a different direction. and always with the parents of young ladies. by the way, the lady that he's married to now, miss kayla, is a younger woman. he did that because, you know, there's something about the purity of a young woman. and there's something about, something that's good, that's true, that's straight. is it all right for a man who's 30 years old to date and court a young lady who is 14 years old
with their parent's consent? is it or is it not? >> no. >> not at my house. no, it's not. not in the '80s. >> well, peter, i'm going to give you that one. i don't know what to say. i mean, that pablam he's giving people is so -- i don't know what -- what is it? what is the word? it's a terrible idea, that somehow that this guy can go for sex, basically, with 14-year-olds because the 25-year-olds are all taken and then he said he did it with their parent's consent. why doesn't he come up with this list of young women who were in their early teens at that time that did get his parent's consent. he's nooacknowledging all the charges can but saying it's okay because the guy was desperate. >> he's not disputing the facts, unlike roy moore who said it's not true. his defenders are saying, well, yeah, it could be true, and if it's true, it's okay, because it's not predatory, even if
people today might look at it that way. it's an extraordinary rationalization. and the real question is whether that ise s res s res r s res res in alabama. i think party preferences tend to win out a lot of cases like this. it's not a choice between two republicans, it's a choice between a republican and a democrat. and sometimes people will hold their nose and vote for someone they see as flawed because of the policies they care about. >> i'm going to make a prediction right now. i predict that roy moore loses this race. i don't think alabama is going to put up with this stuff. thank you, robert costa, yamiche alcindor, and peter baker. coming up, the russian investigation and new information about an associate of michael flynn, general flynn now a subject of special council robert mueller's investigation. more coming, getting deeper, in russia. this as mueller may be zeroing in on trump's son-in-law, jared kushner. he looks like the next one to fall. that's ahead. plus, how did trump spend
the day before thanksgiving? well, you'll see, tweeting of course, with another attack. this case again on the father of the ucla basketball player and a vulgar re-treat about hillary clinton, of course. and obama envy. president trump is taking every opportunity now to remind his base how much he wants to race a the accomplishments of his predecessor, even with regard to pardoning turkeys. and no opportunity is too small. finally, let me finish tonight with a day no one will ever forget. this is "hardball" where the action is. in every town, across america. small businesses show their love to you. with some friendly advice, a genuine smile and a warm welcome they make your town... well, your town. that's why american express is proud to be the founding partner of small business saturday. a day where you get to return that love, because shopping small makes a big difference. so, this saturday get up, get out, and shop small.
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presidential candidate? >> oh, i don't think so. i'm not sure that that's how it works anymore. but, you know, i think i bear the responsibility of -- for not succeeding. >> we'll be right back. it's open enrollment. time to open the laptop... ...and compare medicare health plans. why? because plans change, so can your health needs. so, be open-minded. look at everything-like prescription drug plans... and medicare advantage plans from private insurers. use the tools at medicare.gov. or call 1-800-medicare. open to something better? start today. ♪
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suspected e-mail also showed kian was with flynn at a meeting in september of 2016, with pro-russian congressman, dana rohrabach rohrabacher, as msnbc previously reported. that meeting is under scrutiny by mueller's team. i'm joined now by the author of that report, julia ainsley of nbc muse and jessica woodruff is is reporter with the daily beast. so is this a gambino-style ro rollup where they'll start with the most tesirnlgier figures. >> we saw with this rick gates and paul manafort. rick gates was the business manager of paul manafort, his deputy, and bijan kian played a very spectacular role with michael flynn at the flynn intel group. he was arranging a lot of these meetings, the person out front
shaking hands and arranging for him to meet people like dana rohrabacher. so now this is a point where mueller has not only questioned kian for information about flynn, but he's focusing specifically on him aon bringin witnesses before the grand jury in coming weeks. it tells us that mueller is following this strategy where he sort of circles everyone. he figures out who someone he tried to get to works with pb and gets to those people to get them to cooperate and tell them the whole story. >> is jared kushner next on the food chain? >> there's been a steady drum bate of reporting over the past few weeks. it seems we're hearing more and more about what kushner did and what he did not disclose in terms of his foreign contacts or outreach from russia. so it seems that mueller has a lot of information on him and he could be someone that he could go to next, especially as he works his way further inside this trump inner circle. >> well, jared kushner is also
under more scrutiny, according to the "wall street journal." investigators are asking questions about kushner's interactions with foreign leaders during the presidential transition. the inquiry includes his meeting with the executive of a sanctioned russian baeng, as well as a request from israel, asking the trump team for help blocking a u.n. resolution. as we already know, kushner originally failed to disclose any foreign contacts on his security clearance form, which he called an administrative error. but kushner could also be a key part of a potential obstruction case. general mueller's prosecutors have asked witnesses detailed questions about mr. kushner's views of mr. comey and whether mr. kushner was in favor of firing him or had staked out a position. according to four people familiar with the matter, mr. kushner pushed for comey's firing with the president and his top advisers. so two things. kushner was involved with the russians. kushner was afraid of his involvement with the russians.
kushner didn't like comey coming after his involvement with the russians. he tries to get rid of comey, gets the president to get rid of comey, both the obstruction piece and the collusion piece touch on jared kushner, the president's son-in-law. that's awful close to the nervous system of this president. >> this is a really stressful time to be jared kushner. and it's important to remember that the news that we're getting about michael flynn over the past few weeks also relates directly to jared kushner himself. during the transition period, according to reports, flynn, kushner, and sergey kislyak, the controversial russian ambassador to the united states had a meeting together that didn't get disclosed on that security clearance form. and in that meeting, it appears that there were conversations about setting up some sort of back-channel between trump world and russian leaders. and something really astonishing happened recently. and that is chuck grassley, who's the republican -- republican, conservative guy -- who heads the senate judiciary
committee, actually released a letter where he said jared kushner failed to turn over e-mails to him for his committee's investigation, that involved the efforts to set up that back channel. so we have a u.s. senator on the record, saying, first, that kushner somehow was involved in communicates about a back channel, and second, that kushner wasn't completely forthcoming with that republican u.s. senator about those efforts. what that all means is that -- >> okay, what is unique -- what is wrong -- i'm sorry, betsy, what is wrong, legally -- what's illegal about a back channel? >> i think -- i can't necessarily speak to that. that's a complicated diplomatic issue. it's definitely outside of the norms of how the united states generally kentuckies these foreign policy matters. and of course, when we're talking about the mueller probe, what we have to remember is that first and foremost, it's a counterintelligence probe. it's looking at russian efforts to influence the united states. it's not primarily a criminal probe. so those counterintelligence
matters relate directly to the way that powerful folks in the united states may try to communicate with powerful folks in the kremlin. additionally, of course, the major legal liability for kushner here is the fact that he did such a poor job disclosing all of these conversations when he was trying to get a security clearance to have access to even more classified and incredibly sensitive material. >> well, i'll start with julia on this. i know a lot about bobby kennedy. bobby kennedy had a back channel relationship who could have been kgb at the time. but that back channel is the way we got through the cuban missile crisis, because it was him who suggested that we deal with the turkey missiles and trading them from the cuban missiles. another case of nepotism, by the way, bobby kennedy. is it illegal to have a back channel? >> so we have to look lat what this back channel looks like. john kelly when he was dhs secretary came to kushner's defense earlier this year when it came out that kushner may
have been trying to set up these back channels. he said, look, people have to do diplomacy in a number of ways. here's where it gets tricky. if there was a way for him to set up a back channel where it couldn't be secured, where things were either being traded quid pro quo or the u.s. didn't know about that or in a way this information wouldn't have been secure, in other words, the u.s. wouldn't know about its own diplomatic conversations, but another country like, say, russia could hear this if it perhaps happened at the russian consulate. we would be running into major national security risks and of course running into what could be illegal activity, if there's some sort of trading and selling off of u.s. foreign policy. it would be the content, not the back channel i.t. >> i think in the cold war sense, it was just an attempt to diffuse a possible con ton federation, a nuclear confrontation. thank you, julia ainsley and betsy woodruff, great reporting. next up, president trump is gearing up for thanksgiving by asking why people don't thank him enough.
interesting. it's him, again. trump launched into a twitter tirade about those basketball players he helped free from china, calling one of their fathers an ungrateful fool. this is "hardball." and that's the president. where the action is. how do you chase what you love with moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis? do what i did. ask your doctor about humira. it's proven to help relieve pain and protect joints from further irreversible damage in many adults. humira works by targeting and helping to block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to ra symptoms. humira has been clinically studied for over 20 years. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores.
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thanksgiving day parade. security will be extra tight at the annual tradition this year. and now we take you back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." on the eve of thanksgiving, as families gather together to give thanks for all that they have, the president of the united states decided to launch another series of twitter attacks. and today, he decided to continue a fight he's had with lavar ball, the father of a ucla basketball player, arrested in china for shoplifting. ball has refused to thank the president for his role in orchestrating the release of his son and two other players. here he is this past monday. >> it wasn't like he was in the u.s. and said, okay, there's three kids in china. i need to go over there and get him. just because people say things, you know, it's supposed to be true. like, hey, i stop them from serving ten years. maybe we was doing some talking
with some other people before we even got there. >> okay, anyway, a worthy opponent. trump didn't seem to appreciate that, because at 5:30 in the morning, the president tweeted, "it wasn't the white house, it wasn't the state department, it wasn't father lavar's so-called people on the ground in china that got his son out of a long-term prison sentence. it was me. too bad, lavar is just a poor man's version of don king, but without the hair." he then went on to call ball a, "ungrateful fool." for me, i'm joined by a.b. stoddard and jonathan capehart, msnbc contributor. jonathan, why does the president punch down? why does he get another ego guy like himself, who nobody ever heard of, and pitch up a holiday-long fight with this guy? >> well, that's a good question. the president always punches down. let's think about this for a second, chris. we have the president of the
united states, who is engaged in a fight with a private citizen, with an american citizen. you know, we used to have presidents who used to rise above these things, who would leld such insults as the interview that lavar ball gave on cnn, just let that slide, because that sort of thing is beneath -- should be beneath the president, should be beneath the office of the presidency. and yet, what we have here, chris, are two big egos in the age of trump, where the president feels that it's okay to punch down and zbeget into a very public fight with a private citizen. and where that private citizen sees no problem whatsoever or at all with engaging in a fight with the president of the united states. and one more thing, chris. what we have here are two people, clearly, for whom everything is about themselves. the president is getting into this fight, because he feels personally insulted by lavar ball. and then you've got lavar ball, who's someone who from what i understand, is very savvy when
it comes to creating publicity for himself. and he's got a business of his own. and this helps him. >> yeah, exactly! a.b., i think if the guy had the intention of sparking up a feud that would make him on the level of the president of the united states, he pulled it off! and the fact that president trump understands what the guy was up to, he compared him to don king, one of the great promoters of all time in boxing, he knew what the guy was up to, and he played his game. i don't get this? why does he want to have a -- unless there's a race piece to this, where he wants to have tan african-american opponent wherever he can find one. that would be another way of looking at it. your thoughts? >> well, there's a couple of aspects to this. one, president trump is energized by grievance and by fighting. so that's just -- if someone throws him some bait, he's going to come at it. number two, as jonathan points out, this guy is a provocateur and a self-promoter. and if you watched the entire interview the other night, he's a serious jerk.
so it provided -- it's not only that president trump takes the bait, but he became a good sort of foil for the president, because the president is really trying to, as ---ion, ioyou kne tweeted again about nfl players, sort of speak to the sense to his voters that these are privileged, entitled athletes and they're doing the wrong thing. and so if you -- if you have the combination of the culture war over nfl players, and this guy who sort is willing to set off president trump and be really rude about it, it was kind of the perfect storm, right? and then at the same time, president trump has a theme that we've heard often. even back to the campaign before. he was a president, that he doesn't get enough credit for things. and he likes to be given credit for things. and so, he anticipated that he wouldn't be thanked by the basketball players. remember the tweet from a week ago, i bet they don't even thank me. then they thanked him, he sort
of calmed down, and we're back where we are. i really hope that father ball doesn't continue this feud, because donald trump will stay with it. >> the president also re-tweeted a london-based pro-trump broadcaster who took a swipe at mr. ball and hillary clinton. the trump supporter wrote, "the undespera ungratefulness is something i've never seen before. if you get someone's son out of prison, he should be grateful to you, period. i don't care. if hillary got my kid out of prison, as much as i hate the woman, i.d. thank her corrupt --" well, you fill in the bank. jonathan, this does seem to be -- it does seem to be the president's wheelhouse. if you take the take the knee stigt, t fight, the statue fight, he does want to aggravate this ethnic fight we have in this country and widen the gap as wide as he can get it that day. that day, he wants it to be wide. >> look, chris, to pick up on what a.b. was talking about, this isn't just a fight with privileged athletes or
privileged nfl players. this is the president of the united states, who always seems to find time to pick fights with african-americans. that we cannot look away from the race angle that's at play here. the president, for one reason or another, things that, and we've seen it work, that his base likes the fact that he is standing up to people, who they think are benefiting from a system that's been rigged against them. and that what better way to feed, to stoke that grievance that a.b. was talking about, and i agree 100%, but what better way to stoke that grievance than to pick a fight with african-americans, whether they're african-american men who may or may not be jerks like lavar ball, or like colin kaepernick's who's taking a knee and standing on a principle, or jahmell hill who had so-called the temerity to criticize the
president of the united states. this works for his base. but unfortunately what works for his tiny base is really horrible and detrimental to the rest of us in the united states. >> it's so rich that he mentioned don king. the ultimate promoter of boxing fights. here's trump, who loves to be promoted. he promotes himself, in fight after fight after fight, to keep his core together. >> and don king is a friend, supposedly, of donald trump's. but obviously, the tweet was incredibly personal, incredibly ugly, and he called him an ungrateful fool. and that's why i'm worried that lavar ball will punch bag. >> okay, great. remember what p.t. barnum said, if you want a crowd, start a fight. trump does it every day, he starts a fight, and we pay attention to him, unfortunately. thank you, a.b. stoddard, happy thanksgiving and also to my friend, longtime buddy, jonathan capeha capehart. thank you, sir. up next, it certainly seems like president trump is fixated
on his predecessor, barack obama. yesterday, we got a stark reminder of that. even at the turkey pardoning ceremony, trump was talking about erasing obama's legacy in that regard. you're watching "hardball." statins lower cholesterol, but can also lower your body's natural coq10. qunol helps restore this heart-healthy nutrient with 3x better absorption. qunol has the #1 cardiologist recommended form of coq10 qunol, the better coq10. wthe phone line can be a lifeline to the outside world. i'm sorry i just can't understand you.
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as many of you know, i have been very active in overturning a number of executive actions by my predecessor. however, i have been informed by the white house counsel's office that tator and tot's pardons cannot, under any circumstances, be revoked. so we're not going to revoke them. >> well, let's bring in the "hardball" roundtable. we need heavyweights for this topic. margaret carlson is a columnist with the daily boose. howard fineman is global editorial director for the "huffington post." i think you can handle this one. and franchesca chambers is white house correspondent for the "daily mail." of that order, what do we make of trump in this reach, this stranged, strained attempt to take something that's supposed to be felicitous and cheerful and turn it into a cheap little job on obama? margaret? >> the turkey pardoning is a ceremony that allows you to riff a bit. however, the unifying theory, if
there is one, of the trump administration, is to undo everything he can that obama has done. and so, he has to insert this into a pleasant holiday tradition, because he can't resist this impulse, this impulse drives everything. it's why we have, you know, an epa, we have scott pruitt, who's reversing everything that obama did, so that coal is becoming the official fuel of the united states of america. the agriculture reversing everything. it is what trump wants to do. and so it -- he -- he's standing there and it just flies into his mind. and when those cameras are rolling, lroll rolli rolling, he can't stop himself. >> howard, i'm wondering if he's not being political here. could it be in his interests -- i watch politicians these days. they have to act like they have no friends on the other side of the aisle, because their friendship is for their contributors. they give their friendship to
their contributors. so they have to like the friends they get money from and they have to hate the enemies of their contributors. so it's important for him to be seen as somebody that has nothing but contempt and hatred for obama, for his own political well-being. and i think it's sick, but i think it is going on in politics today. >> i think you're absolutely right. and at the risk of sounding like i'm buttering up the host of the show, i think that's brilliant. i hadn't heard it expressed that way. there's no event too triviale not to be politicized, and politicized for the reason that you say. which is, we're on our side, they're on their side. we're going to see that playing out at thanksgiving dinners all over the country tomorrow. the democratic congressional campaign fund put out a bulletin for everybody about how to argue with your republican relatives tomorrow. that's the world that donald trump came into. it's the one he's exaggerating and accentuating. and by the way, that's the way he's going to play it down in
alabama. >> franchesca, what do you make about this turkey, this turkey talking about turkeys? i mean, i'm sorry, i shouldn't say that. but there's a turkey aspect to the president's behavior. who would talk about turkeys with such enthusiasm as political pawns? >> well, he was riffing, as margaret was saying. and i think that he thought that he was being funny, kind of making a funny joke about his predecessor. but, of course, for people who support those policies that barack obama put in place, that donald trump is now revoking, it's not as funny to say that. but one has to wonder if the white house was breathing a deep sigh of relief when he didn't bring up other potential pardon jokes that he could have made yesterday. there are some other folks that everyone is wondering, people that he could potentially pardon in his administration and i think there was definitely a sense of whether he would make some jokes either about that or about his other favorite person who's a democrat, hillary clinton, and i think there was a
real question whether he would bring her up instead of barack obama and a potential pardon for her. >> well, back to my conversation with howard, i really do think he has to make it clear that he hates hillary. he has to make it clear all the time, because his people hate hillary. >> anyway, late-night comedian stephen colbert couldn't resist making his own political joke about trump's reference of revoking political pardons of tators and tot. >> because, if they could, i would eat tator and make tot watch. you're next, tot. >> mm-hmm. >> i'm eating tator because he talked to mueller. >> franchesca, howard, and margaret, in that order, what do we make of the fact that it's hard to tell satire from reality. it's getting more tricky to discern the difference. >> i think the late-night comedians are having quite a ball, as you could see there, with this event. but, you know, i do want to point something else out. the other reason that president
trump might have brought up president barack obama yesterday is looking back on the previous year's event, there was some speculation that president obama took a slap at donald trump in his final turkey pardoning. he mentioned one nation for everyone and how we should be a divided society and we need to move forward after this past election. and there was some questions about that. so i'm also wondering if that was in president trump's mind, because he has a very long memory, as we know, and likes to talk about the election quite often. >> well, you couldn't be more opposite than what trump did in his pardoning, than what obama said and what trump said. >> he's got a whole -- chris, this guy has a whole castle full of bank woes ghosts. there are people who haunt him, and i think somewhat guiltily in his own mind, about his -- where he is and how he got there and who he ran over there to get there on the way. and he'll run back over barack obama every time he can and the same with hillary clinton. his mind is full of those people
who challenge him. i've never seen -- and i've covered a lot of presidents, as have you. i've never seen the mix of egotism and paranoia that this guy displays. . a and as you said, there's no event too trivial for him to bring that up. it's inescapable. every minute of the waking day for him. >> it could be in the middle of the night subway ride from somewhere dark, deep into queens, on his way to manhattan, and he's not quite there yet. anyway, the roundtable is sticking with us. up next, these impede people will give me some scoops, three of them, that you'll be talking about all weekend as you're eating your cold turkey on saturday. anyway, you're watching "hardball."
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a programming note now about this friday, november 24th, the day after thanksgiving. we'll be back on the air with a special edition of "hardball." president trump: in his own words. anyway, we'll examine whether trump's delivered on the promises he's made, take a look at his trouble with the truth, and discuss his fixation with his predecessor, barack obama. that's this friday, black friday, the day after thanksgiving. we'll be right back. sband, not just being in the military, but at home. she thinks she's the boss. she only had me by one grade. we bought our first home together in 2010. his family had used another insurance product but i was like well i've had usaa for a while, why don't we call and check the rates? it was an instant savings and i should've changed a long time ago. there's no point in looking elsewhere really. we're the tenneys and we're usaa members for life. usaa. get your insurance quote today.
given him. >> wow -- >> had given them. had given all of the small growers. >> chris, the whole sexual harassment story is just beginning on capitol hill, as you all can imagine. and one reason is that secret list of $15 million worth of payments to various staffers on the hill. many of them, we presume, for sexual harassment claims. senator kerstin gillibrand, who's really taken the lead on this issue, is pushing now and is gaining support for a measure that would require that list to be made public. and all future payments to be made public. that's going to be a focus of this debate heading forward into next year. >> thank you, howard. franchesca? >> all right. well, next week, ivanka trump, the first daughter and also a senior white house adviser, will be heading to india to represent the white house at the global entrepreneurship summit in hader abad. and this year it will focus on women, women in the workforce, she'll be on two panels and be
giving a keynote speech at that summit and i'm also going with her. so i'll be reporting live from there. >> thank you so much, margaret carlson, howard fineman and franchesca chambers. when we return, let me finish tonight with a day that no one will ever forget. you're watching "hardball." (avo) when you have type 2 diabetes, you manage your a1c, but you also have a higher risk of heart attack or stroke. non-insulin victoza® lowers a1c, and now reduces cardiovascular risk. victoza® lowers my a1c and blood sugar better than the leading branded pill. (avo) and for people with type 2 diabetes treating cardiovascular disease, victoza® is now approved to lower the risk of major cardiovascular events such as heart attack, stroke, or death. and while it isn't for weight loss, victoza® may help you lose some weight. (avo) victoza® is not for people with type 1 diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis.
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would change everything, it seemed. i watched him on the other networks tell the story of the new frontier and everything that was now lost. we never quite recovered, did we? and as i write in "bobby kennedy college a raging spirit," he changed after dallas. he decided to spend his later years, especially after dallas, tending to their victims, to lives overlooked, and to those discarded. and so he ended up giving us a model that villains create their own hell here on earth. if we want to do some good, we should work to heal the divide. we can do that, of course. if you want to be good, that's what we should do. and that's why i spent these years digging for and discov discovering we need ways to not only recover, but raise again
that. but let's get to the real heart of the matter -- >> you are connected to the president because you're on his evangelical council. >> the fact is many of those countries like haiti are in the worst situations because of governments that are not taking care of their own people. we are talking about people leaving their own country and coming to america when in reality president trump clearly ran on a make america great again policy, which is why he won. americans want people, if they do come to america, to offer something that will be better for america, not just simply send people who because of their weak, broken governments, dishonorable in a lot of ways governments in some of these countries who are not taking care of their own people. the bible says that a person is worst than an infidel when they refuse to take care of their own people of their own kind.
i believe president trump was saying it is clear that we love thy neighbor. people say, pastor what about love thy neighbor. we love our neighbors. we send hundreds of millions of dollars of aid to men in these countries and these corrupt government is, and leaders taking advantage of the people that are there. even the clintons who allegedly stole millions and millions of dollars from the earthquake relief fund -- i see you looking crazy, joy. >> i'm just listening to you. >> everybody can do a quick meme and they can say look at what joy looks like on television. we do love thy neighbor. we do help. we don't leave people test put. those millions of dollars could be coming to america to help other minorities in our own country. >> can i get a word in edgewise? >> it is your show. >> you quoted first timothy 5 through 8, and that verse refers to a man who would not take care of his own family and immediate
family. >> sure. >> i'm a church girl. i used to teach sunday school in denver, colorado. i love a bible verse myself. hold on -- >> talk more about jesus on your show. >> i will quote the word of the lord. isaiah 10:2, in the bible says whoa to though who enact evil statutes and who constantly record unjust decisions so to deprive the needy of justice so that widows may be their spoil and they may plunder orphans. the bible verse you talked about talking about caring for one's own family and immediate family. this bible verse that is repeated much more in the bible talks about caring for the least of these widows and orphans. you talked about haiti, specifically not caring for its own people. a golfment that vernment that i. how can you justify sending people back to such a country? how can you as a man of god
justify sending people back to that country. >> this is not about sending people back. >> this is what donald trump's policy is. >> we -- the deeds is -- >> answer my question first. >> the deeds are this, words are -- >> answer my question first. wait a second. hold on a second. we're not talking about sending african-americans to haiti. time out. time out. "am joy." time out. time out. >> joy, this is the -- >> i will get an answer to my question before you do another -- i let you talk for a long time. how do you justify, sir, you're the one who said that this is about trump's deeds. trump's deed is to revoke and send people back to haiti, a country you said is ill-equipped to take care of its own people. >> it's not the responsibility of the united states of america to be the united states of the global world. this is the united states of america. you, joy, i am american.
the president of the united states job, i had vhis vow and s to protect and defend the constitution of the united states and the citizens of the united states. now, we are not leaving those people to die. we're sending aid. >> you're sending them to die. >> we're sending millions of dollars. let me say -- let me ask you a question. >> you don't have to ask me questions, when i'm on your show you can ask whatever you want. your party wants to cut the aid. your party doesn't believe in foreign aid. >> wouldn't that money do good for other african-americans? let's talk about the black mothers and fathers. >> okay. i think you are now -- are you then advocating for universal healthcare to make sure those black mothers and fathers in this country have healthcare? >> let's talk about the nfl, and people not getting their money. >> the nfl? what does the nfl have to do
with universal healthcare in america. >> let's talk about black people in america. we're talking about black people in haiti. let's talk about black people in america. >> i have one more question. >> there's one thing that the president and i do disagree with. >> that's good. >> i disagree that i don't think we need more -- more reference to his norwegian immigration policy. i don't think we need more white liberals coming to america. i think we need to share it all. when we open the door, as we open the door, we don't need more white liberals coming to the country. >> are you saying that you want to have a policy based on peoples ideology? norwegians have been quite clear they don't want to come up here. >> this is america, joy. you're on -- you're on -- >> i know where i love. one more question. i will attempt to get an answer to it. >> black people in america are suffering. >> i'm one of them. i knows there plenty of black people here. >> so am i. they're suffering. so we're talking about haiti. what is the role -- one more question. i will give you one more chance
to answer my question, then we'll be done here. you're wasting my time when you talk over me and don't answer my question. >> you're wasting my time. >> then good-bye. let's bring in our panel. we have tara dowdell. karine jean-pierre, and maria kumar. i will throw it out to the panel. i don't know i got an answer to my question on whether or not the u.s. role in the world is keved by sending people from specifically haiti back to a country that pastor burns says is substandard, ill equipped and cannot take care of its own people. you are of haitian background. can you make sense of that, karine jean-pierre? >> i can't make sense of anything he just said. it's troubling the words he used, the comments he made. let's be clear. i think he and donald trump need
to go through a history lesson of this country, of the united states, and also countries of haiti, especially if you're talking about people in the way he's talking about haiti. hate pi haditi had a successful independence, their independence encouraged the freedom movement for south america. another thing he needs to understand, the pastor and donald trump need to understand is that haiti has been exploited and governed by the united states in the past. it's troubling when you have people who call themselves a pastor, a person who is in the white house who doesn't have any time of understanding of history at all. also haiti contributed so much to this country. i want to go back to the top when you were talking about racism, if donald trump said those things or not with the pastor. look, if it walks like a duck --
if it walks like a racist, talks like a racist, acts like a racist, it's a racist. we have a racist president in the white house who pushes his racism like a peacock. it's clear how he feels about immigration. he puts basically a sign on the statue of liberty saying whites only. no one else need to apply. it's troubling, and i really throw this to the republicans out there on the hill, what are you going to do? are you really going to continue to embrace all this racism policies that the president puts forth? is that what you're going to do? you know, it's going to be troubling. next week will be an important week because we have the cr coming forth, and democrats and republicans need to make sure that the d.r.e.a.m. act is included. >> absolutely. pastor mark burns who does not believe in taking care -- my brother's keeper, being thy
brother's keeper said we need to have witnesses in the room to tell us what happened. no, i was not in the room. let me play somebody who was. senator dick durbin of illinois, the only person so far who had the guts to come out and say to camera rwhat happened in that room, and no one has yet to call him a liar. here he is on friday telling us what happened in the room. >> you've seen the comments in the press. i've not read one of them that's inaccurate. he went on and started to describe the immigration from africa being protected in this bipartisan measure. that's when he used this vile and vulgar comments calling the nations they come from shitholes. the exact word used by the president. not more, not just once, but repeatedly. that was the nature of this conversation. >> you know, evan, you are republican. >> that's true. >> you know the policy of the republican party not just donald
trump is at present to limit immigration, particularly limit immigration from non-european countries. mitt romney said self-deportation. donald trump, not his words, to pastor burns commentary, but his deeds are more deportation, fewer immigrants that are not european, apparently more norwegians. wonder why he wants that. what do you make of those comments made in the oval office? is there a way back for donald trump from having said that. >> donald trump campaigned on making america great again. he wants other countries to respect us. now he's being going around the country saying other countries now respect us. no, they don't respect us when you're willing to insult other countries and people from there. i think that it's not making america great again. it's making america look weak. like we have an insecure bully leading us. one big problem we have is that world leaders look at donald trump and think this is not a guy playing with a full deck in terms of he doesn't understand
what the situations are. he doesn't even know what's all in the foreign policy circles the rule of five. when you talk about one country, it affects four other countries. he doesn't consult with them, our allies are upset. as a conservative one thing that attracted me to the movement is how we talked about morals and stand up for people who were treated badly and how we would push back against coarse language. the president of the united states is the top of that. what happens when i go to somebody from nigeria, haiti, and say i actually care about you? donald trump is the prism in which the republican party is viewed through. they'll see me as another racist. >> when we come back, i'll let the rest of the panel in one big
irony of all this is that the republican party seems to believe in a grand and big role in the world for america, and that america had more leadership to exert around the world. we heard from donald trump's pastoral advisers, reverend burns, was no, the only obligation of the american president is to zero in on our interests in the united states and to hell with the rest of the world. that's an interesting way to make america great again. my panel is sticking around. more "am joy" coming up. ♪ whooo! yeah! ♪ mmmmm. want some? it's good, it's refreshing. ♪ this is what our version of financial planning looks like. tomorrow is important, but she's only seven once. spend your life living. find an advisor at northwesternmutual.com.
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>> mr. president, are you a racist? mr. president, will you respond to these serious questions about the statement, sir? mr. president, are you a racist. >> one day after making unde undeniably racist comments, trump ignored shouted questions from april ryan about whether or not he is a racist. this occurred moments after he signed a proclamation honoring dr. martin luther king jr. as we often say about this presidency, you cannot make this stuff up. we're back with our guests. we will get everybody in. i will start at the table. mari maria, i will let you respond to it all.
>> last night i said i'm concerned about three other words that the president said that no one is disputing, which is take them out. because what that means in terms of policy on the ground. in response to the pastor, you know, i wish that he would take his flock to the many multiple immigrant detention centers, immigrant detention camps, because they are filled with africans and haitians. people think it's just mexicans like me. no, no, no. it's filled with people from there. so this notion of we're prote protecting our own, no, no, no, these are our people. they are, in fact, being rounded up and they are being placed into these -- no one has seen them. i've been thinking about this. you don't see every night the parade of immigrants that are being detained and then put into these places. you don't see them. why? so then what happens when the president labels these countries and the people from these countries this terrible word?
i was impressed the "new york times" had a piece this morning that said there's an international conversation around the dehumanizing of migrants. >> yep. >> what does that mean? so what that calls upon all of us is to elevate the conversation. this is not like pretend. this is happening now. i feel it urgently. >> it is very important. we get caught up. because this is cable tv, the media is sort of zeroing in on that word. because the fact is the president of the united states speaks in such vulgar terms. it's shocking. but maria makes a point, which is it's the policies cha are really at issue here. you had even before donald trump mislabeling all those countries, mass deportation was his strategy. rounding people up. they've been deporting young people who have daca despite their status that is supposed to be protected. he yanked tps from haitians, from hondurans, you're talking
about tens of thousands of people that this president wants to deport. he said put me down for wanting more europeans. they're trying to exchange non-white immigrants for white immigrants, and it's the policy that is at issue. >> racist believes equal racist policies. that's the point. that's why trump's rhetoric is so dangerous and why we need to condemn it forcibly and we need do it over and over again. people say why do you keep talking about this over and over again? the other side of the coin is not only do racist believes drive racist policies, racist believes repeated over and over again in the way donald trump is doing it drives conscious and unconscious bias. that's the same unconscious bias and conscious boyias that stoia people of color from getting loans, stops people from getting
employed, the same unconscious bias that is tearing families apart. people who were contributing in this country, making this country better, sending them back to countries that are unsafe, that they had the bravery to escape and come here to seek a better life which is the promise of america. >> right. >> i want to make one more point. i heard people say we shouldn't highlight the huge success stories. we should highlight the success stories of those people, the big success stories, because the point of white supremacy is to demonstrate that people of color, immigrants don't have the ability to do big things. don't have the intellectual riggri rigor to pull off big things. every time donald trump says this. to be clear, somebody listening to pastor burns, maybe not in this audience, someone listening
to pastor burns, what he said will resonate. unconscious bias will destroy this country, and conscious bias has been the bane of this country's existence. donald trump is basically the embodiment of that. >> yeah. at the same time, it says on the statue of liberty, give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free. it didn't say give us your highly intellectual blond nor regions, or we can guarantee conservatives. the doe humehumanitarianization migrants which is the bigger picture, and brexit, donald trump said before that all haitians, all have aids. and he said that for nigerians, once they seen the united states they would never go back to their huts in africa. this is not a mindset that donald trump did not invent. there's a mindset in the party that anyone coming to the party
is coming to steal welfare, live off the american people, and that they are a drain on society and it's easy to get them out as donald trump says, push them all out. >> that's called ignorance, that's what that is called. any educated, thoughtful good person would disagree with any of those comments that donald trump made regarding those countries. everybody knows that. there's none of my friends that i know that are republicans think that those comments are dandy and they don't unite people. but what we have got to look at is, you know, we all agree on this panel, we all agree that's not what we need. and that, you know, america was built on, you know, immigrants. but what we need to do is we have got some serious issues coming down the pipe. that's daca. we have some people that are very nervous, joy, wondering if they're going to have to leave their home. they know america. that's the only home they know.
we have got to learn how to work together. even though these comments are heinous, they're bad. we have to work together to make sure we can get some good legislation that we can get protection for daca and we can get, you know, our borders continuing to be secure. so we have a lot of things that we have got to go past and look past. while i like a thoughtful conversation on things, i think things have to be addressed, we have some darn really important issues that we have got to work together as right and left to make sure these people are protected. >> maria, can democrats realistically work across the table with a president who sees a korean american analyst come into his office to brief him on important policy matters and demands to know where she's from, insists when she says new york, manhattan, that he tells her, no where your people are
from. when she reveals she's korean-american, says why don't we have the pretty korean lady negotiating with north korea. this is somebody who is so deeply unable to see somebody as just a human being, i'm not sure democrats can negotiate with him. here are the people in the room with him when he was making the policy. there's one latino in the room. he also is not one of the people that pushed back. my former congressman didn't say anything back. how do democrats work with these people? >> it's not even the democrats. the republicans have a serious problem. he's permanently damaging their brand. let's take a step back. he is creating immigration policy absent the democrats and the republicans coming up with anything. what i mean by that, by rescinding daca and tps, by
ensuring we don't address the back lock of 3 million people waiting for residency because of backlog, he's creating a whole class of undocumented immigrants that all of a sudden get rounded up even though they're playing by the rules that the federal government laid out they should be doing. he's creating a whole new class of undocumented i grants so that you have the prison industry, the prison detention industry making a lot of money. when we say his -- he likes to boast and say deportations are down. he's right they are down, but we are right now witnessing an expansion of the detention system the way we have never seen before. the other thing that they are trying to do now at border is encouraging the separation of children and parents from each other. that is un-american. that is something that is vile. that is going against our family values. i want to address what reverend burns said. he was so knowledgeable on our
contributions when it comes to foreign aid, less than 2% of our gdp goes to foreign aid. it's to ensure we have authority that we have a leadership in the world and more importantly it's -- we are the beacon of recognizing human rights. we are doing a dismal job now within our borders. shame on the republican party that does not see what they are doing to this country. we are right now if you are in a kindergarten class of 5-year-olds, they are the first generation of a majority minority country. we have 25 years to get this stuff straight, we're not doing it well for our children. >> i wish we had more time. i want to thank the panel. thank you guys. appreciate it. coming up, before the 2016 election, a candidate paid
somebody six figures to cover up an affair. stay with us. ♪
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clifford a year after trump married melania. the "journal's" sources say clifford does not claim the account was nonconsensual. in statements released friday neither the white house nor trump's lawyer denied the payment. according to a statement, the woman denies an affair with trump, but daniels reherself cod not be reached for comment. there's a couple weird things about this story. the statement. the fact that michael cohen sent this statement to the "wall street journal" and to us at nbc, and it is signed by stormy daniels, this woman's stage name. and it is dated january 10, 2018, which says rumors that d
strike you as odd? >> it did. we contacted cohen on wednesday morning, and we got this statement about three hours after that. >> is he her lawyer? >> no, he's not her lawyer. the relationship as we reported it, they reached a nondisclosure agreement. so she and he agreed to keep any allegation of a sexual encounter confidential. >> yeah. >> he asked for the statement, potentially she sent it to him. >> so it could be the chain of custody is that the statement was sent by her to him and by him to you. >> we reached out to her several times. >> just as a matter of journalistic practice, those who are watching the show, so you know, when there's a story about
someone, we reach out to them for comment, we give them sufficient time, would it be normal to reach out for comment from stormy daniels rather than stephanie clifford? the name on the response is her stage nanl. >> i'm not sure what's normal in this situation. she goes by stormy daniels, that's how she signed it. >> part of the cohen statement sent to us at nbc, it says these rum verse been circumstan rumors have been circumstance lated sin sing latcirculated since 2011. is this the same woman who was mentioned as having been having an affair allegedly hushed up by the national inquirer before the
election? >> not the same woman. we reported before the election that karen mcdoingal, a fo acdo had an affair, and she was paid $150,000 not to talk about her aa affa affair. >> the other thing that makes this story interesting, normally it would be a front page story, but with donald trump it's not the top story this week. you had in the michael wolf book, "fire and fury," and it's been reported elsewhere that according to steve bannon, steve bannon claims that donald trump's lawyer took care of 100 women or so drurduring the presidential campaign. this is a business insider article that is an excerpt from this book. kasowitz has known trump for 25
years. he la ghas gotten him out of a of jams, bannon reportedly said. do you think there's other women? >> we don't know of other women besides the two we reported on that were paid. it's possible there were threats made against other women. it is possible there were other payments made. we don't have reporting now. seems like a high number, 100. >> it seems. >> just to be silenced, but there were a lot of allegations. i don't know whether that's an accurate or not. >> an interesting story. apparently she was going to do an interview, tv interviews. just to button this up, you have not been able to talk to this woman directly? >> no, we reached out to her. she hasn't commented. both she and karen mcdoogle were going to go on "good morning america" at around the same time, neither went on. stormy daniels spoke to other media outlets as well, but has
not spoken publicly. >> she is welcome to come on this show if she wants. >> coming up in the next hour, dianne feinstein spills the beans and oprah opens the door. more "am joy" after the break. before you and your rheumatologist move to another treatment, ask if xeljanz xr is right for you. xeljanz xr is a once-daily pill for adults with moderate to severe ra for whom methotrexate did not work well. it can reduce pain, swelling and further joint damage, even without methotrexate. xeljanz xr can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections, lymphoma and other cancers have happened. don't start xeljanz xr if you have an infection. tears in the stomach or intestines, low blood cell counts and higher liver tests and cholesterol levels have happened. your doctor should perform blood tests before you start and while taking xeljanz xr, and monitor certain liver tests. tell your doctor if you were in a region
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everything we stand for. when you've got a close mate, you stand with them in times of adversity, but you call them out when they're wrong. there are many things about which donald trump is wrong. >> donald trump is skipping a scheduled trip to london next month. he says it's because of a bad deal ork trachestrated by the o administration to sell the embassy. it looks like the real reason he called off the trip was because londoners didn't want him there in the first place. his devicive rhetoric and agenda are not welcome in london and will be met with mass peaceful protest. joining me to discuss is martin
lewis. donald trump tweeted the reason i cancelled my trip to london is i am not a big fan of the obama administration having sold the best located embassy in london. bad deal. wanted me to cut ribbon. no. is that why trump cancelled? >> listen, first of all, i normally defer to president trump on anything matters to do with real estate. after all, he had real estate companies that went bankrupt four times and in the '70s the u.s. government charged his landlord companies with racial prejudice. but on this he happens to be completely correct. the reason the u.s. embassy in london was moved was instigated by george w. bush after 9/11. it wasn't a bad deal. the obama administration oversaw it. they got a new embassy built for $1.2 billion. it didn't cost the u.s. taxpayers one cent. the obama administration was so good they actually sold off the
old embassy and did it for nothing. a hint to president trump, that's the way to get the mexican wall built. just sell off all the trump properties. >> the mayor of london said, look, don't come. the londoners are glad donald trump isn't coming. can you just unpap tck the background of the feud between those two men. >> when london had a terrorist attack, donald trump misquoted a remark by sadiq khan and just started these insults. sadiq khan stands up to bullies and won't have anything of it. this is actually quite good news for the president, because the british equivalent of the attorney general has the power to ban anybody who is considered an undesirable person. they have so far 1.9 million
british people have signed a petition saying he's undesirable. he got a record breaking 128% said he is undesirable. >> it's amazing because we haven't seen this much a-- do yu anticipate that happening? >> the demonstrations would be larger than the crowd that he had for the inauguration. moreover, under british law, if he said anything that was racially hateful or insighting, he could be arrested. he doesn't get diplomatic immunity. you have to be diplomatic to get diplomatic i manhunmmunity.
if you're a criminal in prison, you're not allowed to wareear a wig, a hair plug or a weave. >> i have to ask about donald trump's shithole countries comments. >> i hate using the word shithole. could we change it to trumphole? i think that would be better. he said africa is a nation. africa is a continent. when you an intern read you a health report and say you are incontinent, that's the continent. the african continent has 54 nations, 18 of which are part of the british commonwealth, whose
head her majesty the queen. i'll tell you who they really would like to see in britain make a state visit. that is the delightful porn actress stormy daniels. she'd be very welcome. that'ses a go s es s es a -- t news for donald trump. if he pays every american $130,000 to keep our mouth shut, we'd all shut it and it would only cost him $423 trillion. >> martin lewis, you're a national treasure. up next, when it comes to the trump dossier, sunlight is the best disinfectant. that's next.
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tremendous amount of money. >> for weeks donald trump and his allies have been spinning a tale about how the real russia scandal is not about trump at all, but rather the infamous dossier with its explosive claims unearthed by christopher steele. team trump has dismissed the dossier as false and politically motivated. their allies in the republican party have pursued those responsible for producing the dossier, rather than investigating its claims, all while refusing to release testimony by the cofounders of fusion gps, the company that hired christopher steele in the first place. diane feinstein released the 312-page transcript of testimony by glenn simpson, the head of fusion gps before the senate
judiciary committee. over ten hours of questioning, simpson painstakingly gave answers that tell a very different story than what we've been hearing from trump world. simpson said mr. steele has a sterling reputation as a person who doesn't exaggerate, doesn't make things up. going onto add, everyone i know who's ever dealt with him thinks he's quite good. that would include people from the u.s. government. simpson also testified when steele went to the fbi, his motivation doesn't political. he thought there was an issue, a security issue about whether a presidential candidate was being blackmailed. simpson said the information steele was revealing doesn't news to the fbi. quote, they believed chris's information might be credible because they had other intelligence that indicated the same thing. one of those pieces of intelligence was a human source from inside the trump
organization. joining me now paul butler and malcolm nance. thank you for being here. there were four commthree commit received testimony by these fusion gps heads. >> why did you decide to do that? >> because i think people are entitled to know what was said and the lawyers also wanted it released. i see no problem with releasing it. >> senator grassly says you've jeopardized their ability to get certain witnesses like kushner. your reaction? >> i don't think so. that's been difficult in any
event. >> is diane feinstein right, that there was nothing preventing this information from being released and it does not prevent the committees from receiving further testimony? >> absolutely. it has nothing to do with kushner. mueller or the congress can subpoena him and make him talk. when there's a movie made about this, there's going to be this dramatic scene where we see steele doing routine opposition research and he comes across information that's so troubling that he thinks the man who was the next president of the united states is subject to blackmail. he goes to his boss and tells him the evidence. he's concerned there's a crime in progress and that's when they go to the fbi. this is very damaging testimony. >> if you could just sort of unpack for the viewers, you know, if somebody like christopher steele is hired to do sort of general research and
he finds information and on his own goes to the fbi, how strong a signal is that that there's not just necessarily evidence of a crime, but of something really potentially jeopardizing american national security. >> people in the intelligence community, whether it's the united states or foreign allies, we all have a level of counter intelligence security that we constantly keep honed in case we see something that's nefarious. it's built into your career field. so when someone is doing research, even though he's collecting what we call rumor intelligence, and he sees this sort of snowballing effect of information that shows that a candidate for presidency of the united states is not just, you know, under the influence of people, but may in fact be in cooperation or conspiracy with these people, you know, it doesn't just affect the national security of the united states. it affects the national security
of all of the nato allies and anyone who will be in any form of communication or contact with the united states. so the first thing you want to do is you want to report that. the in fact he went to the fbi tells him that there was a crime in progress. he felt compelled to bring this to us. and most interesting is the fact that we already knew. there are other information out there on this subject, i'm sure. >> we're going to come back to that in a moment. one of the things that's been the most troubling, the idea that there was a potential crime in progress, a national security threat in progress. but the way that republicans have responded to that is not by saying, oh my god, we need to go ahead and investigate that crime and figure out how to secure the united states. senators have referred the author of the dossier for a criminal probe. they've actually said that it is
christopher steele who is the criminal. this is diane feinstein responding to the republican's attack on christopher steele. >> why do you think they referred to steele to the justice department for potential criminal investigation? >> my own view, because to my knowledge there has not been a single fact in that reported that has been proven to be incorrect, that it's really to muddy the waters and create a problem. you know, steele brought this information in to the fbi. it's quite amazing that you get punished for providing information. >> i mean, how dangerous is that, that somebody providing information could themselves face punishment for partisan reasons? >> it's extremely dangerous.
it's dangerous in two facets. one is legal. i think they're trying to demonize christopher steele, who has a sterling character, a great reputation. there's no basis for it. to try to prevent him from testifying in the united states, because if you look at the damage that the fusion gps testimony did to trump's reputation and the helpfulness of it to the mueller probe, you could see if that's that bad, then what does christopher steele have to say. the other way this battle is being fought is as pr and for the republicans as propaganda. they need to consider not just how the probe is going to be conducted but how americans are going to receive this information. who are they going to consider trustworthy? what are they going to do if they find out that the fbi has been looking into trump's connections with the kremlin for a long time. this person is now the president of the united states and has put our sovereignty in jeopardy, has put our national security in jeopardy, and the republican
party has done absolutely nothing about it but try to abet it. they have to think what can we do to make americans feel like this is inaccurate information. they've been trying to put that groundwork in play for a long time so that when mueller does reveal more information, people simply won't accept it. >> is christopher steele in legitimate legal jeopardy here? can republicans actually get him prosecuted? >> no. the concern, joy, is that the congressional investigations are getting dogged do bogged down i with the democrats fulfilling their responsibility to the united states by focusing on collusion and whether the president in his campaign tried to steal the election and cover up. the republicans are deflecting. unsubstantiated concerns about steele and hillary clinton.
once again, the nation has to turn its anxious eyes to robert mueller, the special council. that's probably the only way we're going to get an objective version about whether there was collusion and a coverup by the campaign. >> meanwhile, you have trump's lawyer michael cohen suing buzzfeed which released the dossier. how much did these threats of either prosecution or legal action chill the work of people like him who might want to come forward? you already had those australian diplomats come forward and apparently implicate geor-- doe chill the work of people in the field to know that there would be a witch hunt against them or lawsuits attached to them if they come forward to try to help the united states? >> no, i don't think so. to tell you the truth, anyone
who's a professional in this field who gains information that is at this level of significance is going to be out raising the alarms. this does not just affect the national security of the united states. the fact that an australian came forward and brought that information to his intelligence agency, that a british intelligence officer who ran the russia desk would have to collect this information and see that there was a national security risk to the united kingdom as well as the united states and all of nato by extension, tells you of the professionalism of these individuals. the trump administration right now by going after them in a criminal setting is just making a laughingstock out of themselves. what it will do is you're going to find out that nation states may decide they are going to start passing on information and not leave it up to individuals, because their own national
sovereignty may be at stake with a president who is technically out of control. >> there is the question of the trustworthiness of the united states and how much other countries can actually share with the united states and how much our leadership shares with the public. i don't know if you are troubled by the fact that the fbi, knowing they were investigating donald trump, didn't say so while they did confirm they were investigating hillary clinton. there is at some level of the fbi an unwillingness to let the american people know what was happening. does that trouble you? >> it troubles me grateleatly. i'm troubled by the stuff in the testimony from fusion gps about the media, about the fact that they went to publications like the "new york times" who then said there is no link between trump and the kremlin, knowing full well there was. and that was before the election. had this information come out before the election, it may have swayed it in a different
direction and we wonuldn't be having this conversation right now. i'm really glad that senator feinstein did this. what we need most of all is transparen transparency. >> malcolm, you were signaling agreement. >> absolutely. so long as the information we're getting -- by the way, the information we're getting right now is a fraction of what is in the hands of the special counsel robert mueller. just imagine what he has. when it comes out, whether it's in the a report or leaks in the future, this is going to be earth shattering. there is just no way that this is not going to be one of the most significant events in the history of the united states. >> do you think at this stage, if you had to guess, that bob
mueller already has the answers to his questions and is now providing backup in case he needs to do process accuse cushions that will stick? >> mueller has an extraordinary power to subpoena everybody to the grand jury and make them talk under penalty of perjury. if we are learning all of these damaging revelations from the press and congress, the person with the real power is robert mueller. he knows a lot. and from all reports, what he knows is incredibly damaging to the president of the united states. >> to quote you, paul butler, the nation turns its lonely eyes to mueller. up next, steve bannon out of work and on the hot seat. ♪
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priebus. congressman, i'm going to start with you. what do you think congress could in theory get out of steve bannon, who famously in the book by michael wolf exempted himself from being in any contact with russians? >> thank you, joy, for that question. let me first say that i believe high level trump associates including potentially the president himself are in increasing legal jeopardy. that's because insiders have turned on them. we already know that michael flynn has flipped and can cooperating with the special counsel. now we know that steve bannon is going to fully cooperate with house investigates. this is at a time when steve bannon has been abandoned by the president and his allies. we all look forward to what he's doing to say. >> it is fascinating, the extent to which steve bannon sort of
gives himself credit for kind of creating donald trump, as if donald trump sprang out of his imagination. you now have donald trump in this recent interview saying he feels betrayed. asked if the split was permanent, he said we'll see what happens. that sounds like donald trump doesn't necessarily think they're split permanently. i wonder if you think that bannon does think it's permanent and he's now ready to torch donald trump in front of that committee? >> it's a very interesti ining and yang you have here. maybe it might be worth for donald trump to throw a nugget out there that, well, maybe reconciliation is possible to try to elicit some sort of loyalty from steve, who's made it very clear he's not going to go down to protect donald trump
jr., ivanka trump or jared kushner because he hates them. ultimately, steve's lease on life politically is tied to donald trump and he needs donald trump in order to have any attempt at regaining political relevancy or influence again. >> at the same time it is interesting bannon is a navy man. i believe he did have a military career for a little while. and while he is a white nationalist and incredibly vile, it was interesting hearing him describe donald trump jr.'s actions in meeting with russians to get dirt from a foreign adversary to help the campaign as treasonous. he has nothing in his self-interest to say that. does that make him an interesting potential person to testify to bob mueller? >> if i were to equate this to
the valerie plame trial, i would put steve bannon in the karl rove unindicted coconspirator role. karl rove didn't go to jail. scooter lib by did. bannon has been hedging his bets this entire time, knowing this information. the question is, when he goes in before the house intelligence committee, will he view the house republicans as providing him ample cover for him to not say anything? or as you said, will he burn donald trump to the ground? i don't believe that he'll burn trump to the ground. i think he'll try to sort of finesse the answers. i think jared kushner -- i don't think he'll spare jared kushner any favors at all during his
testimony. but donald trump jr., he may just play stupid and say that he just doesn't know. >> yeah. his apology was very focused on donald trump jr. but it is interesting, because donald trump, whether he wants to wall himself off from this book or not, he really can't. michael wolf is literally everywhere. here he is on tuesday describing the way bannon really feels about donald trump. >> the president at this moment in time was much stronger than steve bannon thought he would be. i think steve anticipated my book would appear and that would begin to precipitate his break with donald trump, who frankly he thinks is an idiot. >> not only thinks he's an idiot, but tucked in the friday "new york times" story about donald trump and steve bannon's break was this very intriguing information that in 2015 steve bannon and pethe guy who wrote
clinton cash, that the "new york times" sucked up and turned into news today -- fodder. that same team produced a dossier about donald trump. that "new york times" article specifically said that dossier was about, quote, mob ties. is it now time for congress, for these relevant committees, to is that dossier to find out what steve bannon dug up on donald trump? >> absolutely. when you look at the fusion gps testimony, there's a lot in there about organized crime and connections potentially to donald trump. so i think that's a great point that you made. also i think it's important to note that after their fire and fury came out, steve bannon's regret statement did not say that he did not say what he
said, he just regretted what he said. it's going to be hard to walk back any of his words. >> does it surprise you that bannon -- he had trump on his radio show frequently in 2015. obviously he was trying to bring him along and make him more like jeff sessions and sort of push along his natural racial proclivities to turn that into potential policy. but does it surprise you that he also investigated donald trump? >> i remember at the time during the primary that their plan was to come up with dirt on every single candidate and release tidbits throughout the republican primary. i don't think anyone thought, including steve bannon, that donald trump would win the primary and go on to be president. he wasn't invested necessarily from day one in the idea that trump was going to be the guy
and he would find himself at his right hand entering the white house. they were trying to get dirt on every candidate. their priority was getting attention on breitbart to try to make breitbart the main conversation driver of the republican presidential primary. over time that shifted and changed as it became clear that trump was going to become a legitimate, credible candidate, i guess we'll call it. hence that dossier on trump went nowhere after a certain point. there's a reason for that. >> yeah. if that intel is -- it's interesting, malcolm. you had the russian part of it where they were communicating with somebody inside the campaign. it looks like it was focused on trying to compel donald junior and jared kushner. in your view, would it be logical they would have been communicating with bannon and that bannon might actually have material information? >> i've said this from the very beginning, joy, way back in
september 2016. there were multiple russian teams making multiple contact with multiple individuals within the trump campaign and around the trump campaign in order to shape the narrative that they wanted pressed. it apparently was very successful. they seem to always get what they want in the end and they have people around them who are trying to work in their interests. bannon, on the other hand, as you know was also on the board of cambridge analytica. they themselves could possibly be the bridge between russian social media collection and targeting american citizens in voting in the three states where the election was held. you note that mueller brought on a cyber prosecution specialist to investigate just acts like that. >> it's very interesting.
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you're somebody that i am glad that you're willing to come on and i do try to be fair to you and i'm glad that you can see that. as to the idea that i need to move to haiti to be concerned about the people there, sir, you are a pastor. and in the bible -- you love to quote the bible. let me quote you john. it says whoever sees his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of god abide in him? i too am the child of immigrants and african-americans and people who consider ourselves african-americans, some of us have parents who are immigrants. by the way, since you addressed haiti specifically, let me tell you what haiti has done for us. haitians fought in the revolutionary war. there were haitians among those who helped us to do efeat brita
and free this country and make it independent. haitians overthrew the army to make possible the louisiana purchase. haitians built and created the culture of new orleans. you can't hate new orleans, right? but that culture could not have existed without the migration of people from haiti to new orleans to escape because haiti had been overthrown. haitians live in this country and contribute as doctors, as lawyers, as nurses, as scientists, as statesmen. they are a part of the fabric of this country. sir, african-americans include haitian americans. so pastor burns, i hope that you will open your heart to the people of this world, to the people of this country and do your duty as a christian to love your neighbor as yourself. but thanks for sharing your views. beyond is a natural pet food
puritanical society? very excited about this panel. i'm going to start with you. the way donald trump speaks, depending on whether you think there's some cognitive decline or whether it's just unfiltered malice, when you looked at the s-hole countries stuff this week, what did you hear? >> frankly, i think that we're dealing less with cognitive decline than trump has simply learn he can talk the way he always has and as . i think he just talks the way a person feels like talking rather than dressing up his speech. the business about the s-holeis- that again this is something that you might say if you are a
racist and i do believe he is a classic archie bunker racist. the surprise is he would say this in a public setting. i'm not surprised that he thinks of haiti and el salvador and africa as, quote, unquote, shitholes. he said it as a kind of stunt to show he can do whatever he wants. it really fell out of his gosh darned mouth. >> do you think it was in part because he was in what he saw as unmixed company. there was one person that was aa latino in a room. he was mostly in a room with white older men. >> he says what he feels. >> you wrote a recent op ed in the sacramento bee where the headline was, trump is using twitter to manipulate the
country, here's how to stop falling for it." when i read donald trump's tweets, i see them as streams of consciousness the same as his speaking style. he's just dumping whatever's in his brain onto twitter. do you disagree with that? >> yes, i do. trump is a super salesman. he's been selling for 50 years. he knows how to do it. he does it instinctively and strategically in every case. his tweets are all strategic. they have four types. one is to frame first, preemptive framing. second is to divert attention from whatever threat is coming at him. then there's attack the messenger, which is attack the press, for example. and lastly, to try out some outrage yoou outrageous thing to see if there's a public reaction. all of the tweets are of that
form and they're natural because that's what salesmen do. they know how -- he knows thousand how to do this. they're all strategic, every one of them. they're general. they're not particular strategies. these are general strategies. so he's quite strategic and he's not just talking off the top of his head. the use of the curse words is not just something he happens to be saying because he's not thinking. quite the opposite. what he's doing is appealing to his base. the use of the curse words, one, show masculinity of a certain kind. secondly, they gain attention. thirdly, they show strength of feeling and they appeal to the kind of ideas that his base has. so in all cases, he's appealing to his base. >> i don't know if you agree with that. >> i don't.
>> tell me your disagreement. >> with all due respect, i think you're giving him too much credit. you use the word instinctive. i think he has an animal instinct to defend himself in the same way as somebody smacking somebody on the butt with a towel in a locker room does. he's not sophisticated. he's not that kind of pooebeast. all of this stuff just happens because he's a jerk. >> this is donald trump's tweet from january 7th. he said, the fake news awards, those going to the most corrupt and biassed of the mainstream media will be presented to the losers on wednesday january 1 h 17th. the interest in and importance of these awards is far greater than anyone could have anticipated. that's an example of his tweet. what strategy would you say is behind that?
>> preempt ive framing. he's framing the awards and attacking the free press. it's important to know what to do about it. we can do a lot about it. first, you can help him by simply retweeting it or by taking what he says and putting it on tv. if you take what he says and put it on tv, even if you criticize him, it doesn't matter. it gets his idea out there. i wrote a book called "don't think of an elephant ". if you deny something, you raise that idea. >> you're saying basically ignore it. let me play one more piece of tape. this one makes it seem he doesn't quite understand where he is. this is trump talking to reporters on wednesday. he's talking about the bipartisan meeting that took place in the white house. take a listen. >> welcome back to the studio, nice to have you here. it was a tremendous meeting. actually it was reported as
incredibly good. my performance, some of them quote that the performance, i consider it work. >> is that strategic or is he confused? >> he's not attacking a free press. he isn't mentally sophisticated enough to understand whether or not there is one. what we're talking about is somebody who has no sense of context, of adult norms, of the performative aspect of being a president. when you fight him, you have to think of somebody who's not a deliberate monster using a strategy, even if that would be more fun. you have to think of him, as i have often written, roughly 12. >> not at all. 12-year-olds don't become president. >> this one does. >> we might have changed that. this is a fascinating debate. we are out of time. fascinating conversation. thank you guys very much. still to come, oprah for president? >> she's denying any political
ambitions but two of her close friends told cnn she is actively thinking about running for president. now, i'll tell you, it's interesting. i for one would love to hear that the strait ate of the unio strong. causing a lack of sharpness, or even trouble with recall. thankfully, the breakthrough in prevagen helps your brain and actually improves memory. the secret is an ingredient originally discovered... in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory. prevagen. the name to remember.
i want all the girls watching here and now to know that a new day is on the horizon. [ cheers and applause ] >> nobody ever has to say me too again. thank you. >> even before oprah's golden globes speech was over, the push for a president winfrey had begun. should she run? and if she did, could she win? you guys are both being booked on the podcast, by the way. let's go around the horn and see if you all think the two questions, should she run, and
if she ran, could she win? >> should she run? no. would she win if she did? possibly. >> okay. >> i think that the hubbub over really because that people see there's a lack of leadership nationally and from the white house in general. every couple of months if somebody drops a great speech or demonstrate leadership in some capacity, they become the new person. >> you're saying he should be president. i'd vote for him. >> i do think someone that embodies her values, politics in terms of leadership capability is what people are looking for for the next president to embeside. i'm hoping the person in the white house now is a one term president. as we're thinking about what values we want the president to have, what issues we want them
to champion, she embodies that. that's the reason why you have this clinging on where it's like, yes, oprah run opinion i believe there are many other people like oprah that exists. we could rally around to be president. believe me, if those same people talking about e practice and her black girl magic running, i challenge you to support the black women who are running across the country in this mid term election. >> here's the thing. if we want somebody with her capabilities and values, why not just have the person that has the capabilities and values namely oprah herself. >> could she win, yes. donald trump, i said could win and he did. she can win. should she is a deeply -- i've done this. this is really hard.
the grinder that you put yourself through, she has no no herself inside and out. she's got great body language because that's why sh connects with views and have people on her twitter and show. this is a meat grinder. i think nobody should answer. she has to decide. it's a meat grinder. >> would you support the idea for running? >> i have no problem with it. i think the thing is wide open. if she runs, i want her to run as a democrat. i think she should. >> i think she would. >> she's no delicate flower. she's not just talent showing up on the set. she owns the set. she got there not just through talent but very hard work. swhen s when she created it, she didn't know anything about running a
television network despite her experience running it. when own started, it struggled. she moved out to los angeles and got hands on experience and got down to the grinder. she also surrounded herself with people. >> that's the important part. >> she thoughs how to do that. >> that's one of the many things that trump cannot do. she's already proved she can surround herself with competent people. >> and she knows how to manage people. >> she also knows how to listen to those people. the reason trump's businesses were a disaster, he didn't know what he was doing and wouldn't hire people unless they would kiss his you know what. >> she's not afraid to admit she's made a mistake. she's so relatable. a lot of people will say she doesn't have political experience. they say neither did trump and look what's happening. >> he had some. >> neither did lincoln.
>> i don't think trump's lack of political experience is the problem. what his experience is what he lacks as man, as a human being. >> let me ask you a question on the no, don't run side. one of the biggest barriers for running for president is you have to ramp up name id. if she hasn't to spend a dime for everyone to know her first name, why would it be more strategic to be someone with her same qualities but who is unknown or largely unknown and make them ramp themselves up to the level of name id. why not gijust run her? >> the reason i don't want her to run is because i'm protective of her. this is being protective in that as governor dean is talking about, the grinder that's a presidential campaign. i don't want that life for her. i want her to live her life to the fullest. i don't want her two through
that kind of scrutiny. that's why i would say no. there's no doubt if she came through the nomination process and was our nominee that i wouldn't support that. to your point in terms of name recognition, that's a huge barrier. running for presidency is a popularity contest. you have to have that name recognition in order to two across the country. i'm extremely protective. >> she can do it. we have seen her go through so much. >> does she want to do it at this stage in her life? >> i hope so. >> will she run? going around. >> i hope so. >> no. >> no. >> i'm going to say yes. i think she's thinking about. i think she's going from a hard no to a maybe. it could happen. >> i think she's thinking about
it. >> i didn't say what i think. if you want to know what i think, you can check out my column in the daily beast. there it is right there. you can find out what i think in that column right there. you can download the podcost. when heartburn hits... fight back fast with tums smoothies. it starts dissolving the instant it touches your tongue... and neutralizes stomach acid at the source. ♪ tum tum tum tum... smoothies... only from tums