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Was lose. Up pale and lonely. Nights the sky in the day. Along the young. Kid here in Monterey. Not fall the do not succumb and. Lonely. Nights is behind and. Long. And hand in hand and let. You just enjoyed we hope full versions of Round Midnight usually will do want to be nice and then we ll do a midnight sun to open up the segment of programming from what you eat lettuce choice for n.p.r. This segment is called Round Midnight the 1st round of nag you heard was by a gentleman by the name of Pasquale Krause lol And then you heard chick Baker and then you heard Carmen make array and then you heard Lucky Thompson we usually don t do it like that but we thought it was kind of interesting to hear those versions back to back like that without any interruption so Pasquali girl soldiers. Make a comma green Lucky Thompson thank you for opening up jazz classics Round Midnight I mean it s just a new program holes here w.a.b. Elijah s choice for n.p.r. We continue now swinging Lee with a shockingly sure jockeys to perform and live here in Atlanta Georgia I hear he s out in the west coast somewhere in the shock of shooting his guitar and his group doing something they performed here at a club next to the Fox Theater in the land to do a club called Churchill grounds and I think this was recorded live down it s called s k j. A. Movie. Float. Food. Food food. Food food food. Food. Food. Food the float. A bit rude but. You. Have to. Move move move. Move. Move. Move move. Move move closer look. For. The League. Player Ok. Ok Ok. Ok. Ok. Ok are. You. Going to leave. A Little League player. To play a little. Player league player low flow player. K.j. Shockley sure jazz classics midnight the clique the Hilton Jazz Orchestra we have to hear from Wall Street they re going to do squat in. Slim lives Ok. Ok. Ok Ok let s. Go a player game playing. A little a little. Ok Ok Ok a player looking for. I ve . Little. I ve. I ve. I ve. I ve. I ve. I ve. I ve. I ve. Plz. Plz. Plz. Thank you. Those could Elton Jazz Orchestra squad. Will play a rag great. Classic around with like Steve touré call it. Raise . a problem. Or Lol. Lol lol. Lol. Lol. Lol. 2. That was Steve to really raise college. Jazz classics. Is a lady that she s not. Considered a quote singing but to my ears she s back. And she does a rendition Actually it is Linda Ronstadt what s new How s the treaty. Please. I was going the wrong step what s new Another agree are. Introducing the sea was great artist all greeny having a workbook it was a really good book it was a really doing when. Thank. You oh great they will walk you through well. This gentleman here is something else too Archie Shepp Archie Shepp and I have to tell I tell myself that I know lucky to be loving you so lucky to be the one you want to see you evening when the day is too. Those are the lyrics I like that look like the melody of the lives of Europeans instrumentally from Archie Shepp. From a leg. To. Leg. I. Am going. To. Be a. Woman for carefully and take the time to see the important sights along the way don t worry it will still get you where you need to All Things Considered from n.p.r. News enjoy the journey driving home from 490 point one. Good morning I meet Johnson your host here on w a b s p l moves your die was set at 90 point one piano moves is what you re about to hear and we hope you stick with us because we re going to play some piano music for you that we think would fit for this time of morning here into the new year to 2021 interesting we slowed with Harras Parling because he s like someone in love Horace parliament. Brit God and it s impossible for your listeners to w a b s p s o I already here s Art Tatum You took advantage of me. thank you Tatum also Tatum was he from Toledo Ohio I m not sure you could jazz musician most of the time when you think of Jag additions you think of Chicago Detroit Philadelphia maybe Florida California but they come from places like Little Rock Arkansas. I can t even think of the places they can all you know we all drink red and yellow Diprivan comes from Germany that s yeah that s it Andre Previn He s next he s going to play like young they didn t get in didn t you know there s a story behind it like you know I heard like young performed by another p.f.b. Full of repression recorded it tell you about it some time to write on his grave and. The took. Really. Now this fellow here comes from Europe some with Lehman even a cheery trio the e.u. I should reach for you I shouldn t put those there like that could I be role just play the music face in the bird. Because almost all the way to do. Jeff Hamilton has a trio he. Comes from somewhere always sees Also if they are to do I love being here with you. Oh All right Jeff Hamilton trio I love being here with you if that was done by a Southern pianist it would be I love being here with the all. You singing to jazz classics piano moves this morning I mean it s just a new hose thanks for hanging in here with me and the love and since Go get serious I will still always most is going to make a point this is called Monk s point. Fear monger is really Merryweather after hours. Thank you that was appropriate for this time of morning after Blues stand in from years ago but they just heard from rural America whether it is James Williams James Williams in open court. Illo. Listen the be lucky if. Listening to members supported 90 point one w.a.b. Atlanta. Jenn white host of one day but this isn t my show it s yours it s a place for all of us to talk and ask questions about news and issues that matter most to the nation right now and you get to shape the conversation by sharing what you know let s keep talking next time on why now tomorrow morning at 10 point one w a b p. B.b.c. World Service it s 7 hours g.m.t. This is weekend and Paul Henley The u.s. Counts down to the Biden inauguration as a form a senior official of the Department for u.s. Homeland Security assesses the threat from rightwing violent extremism I believe where we are at this present moment is that it is far exceeded what we are seeing out of an ISIS also a story of redemption. Opposed to actually that I agree with almost 30 years ago with my band I was partly responsible potentially for having inspired him and the u.k. Enters its most challenging week since the start of the pandemic and hospitals face being overwhelmed I don t know how much more we can do before it gets and I get it today there s no room this time of as is known as this is now My Space There s never anything we can have to. Live from n.p.r. News I m sure Rahm President elect Joe Biden plans to sign about a dozen executive orders on Inauguration Day He s chief of staff says he intends to address the coronavirus pandemic and undo some of President Trump s decisions he plans to rejoin the Paris climate agreement and reverse Trump s travel ban affecting Muslim majority countries by and also plans to direct the Department of Education to extend a pause of federal student loan payments and interests President Trump will leave Washington on Wednesday after hosting a goodbye ceremony at Joint Base Andrews N.P.R. s Frank or Donya as reports after his departure ceremony President Trump is expected to travel on Air Force One to Palm Beach where he plans to live at his Mar-A Lago Club details about what the ceremony would include or when exactly it would take place were not immediately available Trump will be the 1st president in modern. History to skip the swearing in of his successor However vice president Mike Pence will be on hand the inauguration ceremony at the u.s. Capitol is considered to be one of the abiding symbols of a peaceful transfer of power with the outgoing president and other former living presidents sitting on the rostrum with the incoming administration Franco or down yeah as n.p.r. News the Bureau of Prisons says it s locked down all its prison facilities around the country as a precaution following the recent insurrection at the capital and ahead of possible violence at the inauguration Wednesday N.P.R. s Jason Slotkin has more the announcement says the decision to not come from specific information or any significant event within a prison but was a precaution taken in light of current events occurring across the country while the statement doesn t specify what those events are the law comes as law enforcement agencies nationwide take measures following the insurrection at the Capitol and over fears of violent inauguration protest the agency which runs $122.00 prisons to not say how long the lockdown will last but said that it would monitor events and adjust operations as a situation of fault federal prisons had already been running under modified operations due to the Cove in $1000.00 pandemic Jason Slotkin n.p.r. News Dodgers Stadium in Los Angeles is now a vaccination site as California struggles with the recent surge of the coronavirus and Lee is c.e.o. Of the nonprofit relief organization core response she says right now there are vaccinating about 4500 people a day but she hopes that number will increase soon we will hit 10000 before the end of next week starting out slow to kind of work out the kinks I think is very very wise Dodger Stadium had been used as a coronavirus testing facility for much of last year this is n.p.r. News. India has begun what s likely to be the world s largest immunization campaign in the attempt to bring the coronavirus pandemic under control it has a population of nearly 1400000000 people more than 10 and a half 1000000 have become infected the highest of any country after the u.s. The Eastern European country of Serbia is the 1st nation in Europe to use China s coated 19 vaccine as part of a mass inoculation campaign to end a kiss reports. Serbian t.v. Station showed footage of an Air Serbia flight arriving with the sino farm vaccines Deluce circling. It s been quoted Serbia s president Alexander was there to greet the shipment and publicly thank China s government for sending it more than $20000.00 Serbs have been inoculated so far with those says of either the Pfizer bio and tech vaccine developed by German scientists or Russia Sputnik vaccine Serbia and Albania are the only 2 countries in the Balkans inoculating citizens against coded 19 Bosnia Kosovo and North Macedonia are still waiting for vaccines for n.p.r. News I m Joanna casus 47 a late tennis players who arrived in Melbourne for the Australian Open will have to quarantine for the next 14 days after 4 people on their 2 flights tested positive for a coven 19 will have to stay in their hotel rooms and not be allowed to practise for 2 weeks the Australian Open is to start February 8th I m nor Rob n.p.r. News support for n.p.r. Comes from n.p.r. Stations other contributors include the family foundation supporting the National Center for Learning Disabilities which works to improve the lives of the one in 5 individuals with learning and attention issues learn more at n.c.l.b. Dot org. Hello welcome or welcome back at 7 o 6 g.m.t. This is weekend from the b.b.c. World Service My name is Paul Hadley and I have with me to guess Maria mugger Rona s writer and broadcaster based here in London but not of course here in the studio with me and Peter Newman who s Professor of Security Studies at King s College London Peter we re going to go to Washington very soon tell us about your topical recent book called bluster Donald Trump s war on terror the mistakes he s made basically. Well what I found was Dad done trying despite his rhetoric didn t actually change so much when it comes to fighting terrorism so when you re going to different place across the world Afghanistan Somalia Iraq and Syria you wouldn t necessarily have known the difference and so that s why why try to claim that he personally singlehandedly defined defeated ISIS is nd isn t true was actually a continuity of the policy of President Obama for him but of course the rhetoric is void really changed and the rhetoric became very hostile Muslims were in fact to trade as terrorists. Fortress America became the topic and he kind of almost wanted to reverse the very in my view very positive Merican narrative of being a nation of immigrants and I think he s done real damage with that narrative if you know it was only rhetoric you might say but in fact it was something very systematic and of course on top of that for years and this is kind of what we re talking about today he is not only indulged but actively encouraged people who you might describe as white supremacists so the legacy is actually very bad the substantial legacy in terms of his born terror. It s not so bad but the rhetorical legacy is actually very damaging indeed more on that very soon on the program Maria tell me about your radio study recently of some extraordinary women. Yes Well I spent actually been twice to this quilting workshop in Mississippi led by these amazing women from a tiny hamlet called Gee s Bend in Alabama Gee s Bend was once a slave plantation and then the people there became sharecroppers deep deep deep poverty very isolated the ferry connecting it to the town across the river was actually cut off during the civil rights movement to stop them from going to vote and they make and wasn t actually reinstated until a few years ago and they make these stunning abstract unusual vibrant quilts and I made a documentary for the World Service about their work and about a workshop with them that I did with my daughter which was so different from the America that we re now seeing on t.v. It was a group of 30 to 40 women black women white women from all over America. With very different political views some of them my imagine but it was an astonishing community very open very warm it was a kind of inspiration as to what people can do if we think about what is human and brings us together rather than what divides us and there were women making quilts out of those one lady making a quilt out of her brother s clothes he had committed suicide and was you know she was doing this as a kind of memorial there were all sorts of stories that came out during those those days Maria modernise and pay to annoy our guests this is weekend now $10.00 days after rioters breached the u.s. Capitol in a deadly attack. Watched by the whole world cities nationwide have been preparing for a potential new wave of violent protests this weekend erecting barriers deploying thousands of National Guard troops Suzanne Lynch is the Irish Times as Washington correspondent she told me about the situation in d.c. For us Washington is very much a fortune fight City if you like at the moment over the last few days we ve seen a huge a buildup of military presence here and thousands of National Guard troops have been essentially pouring into the city that s ahead of Wednesday s no aeration on the back of the John Kerry 6 attack on the capital there the deadly attack that left side people so there s been a real emphasis on making sure that security is in place ahead of Wednesday s events and all the old farty still expecting trouble elsewhere as well in other states yes the f.b.i. Last week issued a warning to officials in all 50 states and Washington d.c. That there were some extremist movements planning some kind of actions in at state capitals across the country now to different extents and to different levels so we re seeing the kind of closures unfortunate cations we re seeing in Washington d.c. You re also seeing those around the country so for example in the capital Michigan law I m saying that s now up fencing except Similarly in Austin Texas so I think a lot of officials around the country are on alert I mean one of the issues now however is that now that a lot of social media platforms have clamped down on extremist groups and extremist supporters and it may in fact be more difficult to track activity and it s not as much in plain sight so as is very much a sense of anxiety here in the air even though we re hearing nothing this weekend so far any imminent attack that investigators have have discovered I had a Wednesday social media often give signs of tension one of the indications that it s more on right wing extremist plaque. Forms where a lot of the activity seems to be also a lot of the more fringe groups they re using you know the Twitter like top for gabs for example that s popular with far right groups we re also seeing a lot more use of encrypted messaging services again it s more difficult to monitor if you like and in some ways but we re seeing kind of a mix on these pop forms so we re seeing in some organizations are some activists right wing activists are discouraging their people from coming out to d.c. Saying that it s a trap saying that their groups may have already been infiltrated by left wing activists but that other indications that people are still being encouraged to arrive to d.c. But as he said There it is so heavily fortified now not just in around the Capitol but for miles and one arrest to mention one of those checkpoints which could be a sign of more to come yeah that was a worrying development from Virginia was arrested by police and he was found with a go in and rounds of ammunition in his truck and he was carrying police said not a government authorized identification he stuck to the security checkpoint near the Capitol now that man has been arrested I say he has been charged but he is saying that he was actually a private security worker and that he had come from Virginia a state where there are more liberal if you like good laws and that he had made an honest mistake so we re still waiting to hear details on that. Suzanne Lin She s the Irish Times as Washington correspondent Maria ma grown as you work for a long time for an American magazine you lived in America for 10 years you re married to an American what s your take on the past 10 days. I think it s been a moment when you know the termites have come out of the woodwork as it were I think that what we re seeing is an eruption of something that s been in America for a long time that has obviously been hugely encouraged and you know given sanction by Donald Trump but I think this is part is the legacy of America s deep racial divisions of white supremacy of the great. Great persistence of that and of of it s it s appalling consequences and I think it s also something that we ve been seeing in other parts of the world too which is the result of a decade of neo liberal policies which have. Which have disenfranchised large numbers of working people and poor people and what we ve seen not only in America but also to some extent in Britain in other parts of Europe is this alliance between the wealthy corporate class and poor people who feel that they ve been left behind that s the coalition that brought Trump to power I was in Washington for the inauguration of his inauguration 4 years ago watching the people who were there and there was is this kind of mingling of people who probably never been to Washington before and that my God it s kind of. And also you know the the wealthy in their evening clothes. And I think that that is something. We ve seen it here in Britain with bricks too so I think that although we are now seeing this as a as a kind of acute moment we really have to look at the deeper roots of it and you think Peter don t you that things are going to get worse in the us yes I fear so and and I grieve that this is not coming out of nothing this has been building up for many many years but in particular of the past 4 years been you ve had a president who s who has given officials sanction to conspiracy theories to completely irrational people and what I m particularly concerned about is that there s so many of them even if you re if you re very conservative and you say there s only 2000000 supporters of this brand of politics and if only one percent of them are ready to to take violent action that s still 20000 people that s more than more supporters than de hottest have ever had in the United States they are heavily armed they have in many cases infiltrated the military and police and most shocking day they do have mainstream support even amongst members of Congress so all of these elements if you take them to get there and you analyze threats as I do professionally into my academic work all of these would be warning signs of an impending potentially very violent threat coming to America there was a storm wasn t shortly after president trumps vote after he was voted in Maria that the media and the mainstream media never covered the views of his supporters for years on with constant interviews explaining and exploring support for Donald Trump as the media learned anything as the wider public learned more I think up to a point yes but that is a very. Strange and difficult to penetrate I mean we have now in America and elsewhere this kind of deep rift in what people understand to be reality when you look at these conspiracy theorists like you and on and you know the supporters of pepper for all can they many of them don t believe in the coronavirus they live in a. Very different information universe if you can call it information and that s a deep problem I mean when when we can t agree about what is reality. We can t really get anywhere and. Some years ago I interviewed a man called Greg Johnson who was a leading figure in what was then known as the all right you know who explained to me that America should we should divide it should be racially divided in a kind of apartheid way like South Africa when I said to him or you know how on earth would you propose to bring this about a new civil we could just send their welfare checks to particular states and then thank you they would go that was astonishing Ok thank you the time is 18 minutes past the hour the u.k. Is generally seen to be facing its most challenging times since the start of the covert 19 emergency hospital beds are running out in some places the country s already suffered more deaths as a result of this disease than any other European nation some hospitals in London and the Southeast say nearly half their patients have the disease and this particular concern about the number of younger people being admitted now the B.B.C. s health editor Hugh Pym has been given access to Croydon University Hospital in the south of London his report begins in the accident and emergency departments known as a n.d. . Think if. It s a any As you ve not seen it before all staff in full protective equipment here at Croydon University Hospital they know that most patients coming in or the have coded or probably due to sheer broadband a-g. Is a consultant here and he s assessing honey for by going one year who s just arrived in an ambulance. Have no in the us nothing. Yes for up made Del Yes that. She s 42 she tested positive a week before and her condition studly got worse. Is it. It can. Just kill you within. You can take. To take it very very serious. He s out there be careful. Be careful since then the need for has been recovering in hospital the sickest patients need to be in intensive care and Stoff have to be on constant alert because patients can take a sudden turn for the worse they ve noticed that more younger people than in the 1st wave are needing treatment for covert anti lockdown protesters went into this hospital and others and took pictures of empty corridor walls they alleged that coded pressure had been exaggerated that I m just off here including Dr Stephen vision an intensive care consultant you know to someone who says Oh it s a myth thought it won t affect me income and save 30 and 40 year olds in intensive care you know with no guarantee that we re going to be able to get them out for example on on Tuesday we had people in the thirty s and people enough forty s one of which died within 24 hours of coming to watch here so it is very very serious doctors here say coded 19 is a multi-system disease potentially causing inflammation in all parts of the body including the heart where we was it was quite scary Alex age 32 suffered a heart failure off to going down with the virus more that by not be able to breathe and obviously mom my chest just felt like. It was getting such a squeeze where very hard to give you. Something terrible No no I didn t I was quite a healthy young men quite active play a lot of sports go to the gym so I was actually quite shocked. Lucky to be alive. Almost half the birds at Croydon University Hospital are occupied by covert patients since the start of the pandemic they ve treated nearly 2000 but in their catchment area in the south east of England numbers are predicted to rise even further worries Cassandra George a deputy sister in intensive care personally quite apprehensive we re up quite a high level as it is already so we don t know will happen tomorrow or next week and in the next coming months they ve only just started the Nguyen there s quite a few patients. In the hospital generally obviously spread across other hospitals so I don t know how much more we can do before it gets and I really actually there s no Lauren there s no love as his name and as this is now My Space There s never anything. Quite happy and safe Cassandra George deputy sister in intensive care at Croydon University Hospital in London and in that report by Hugh Pym Maria there s seems surprisingly little outcry perhaps in the u.k. Doesn t know that as the 5th richest country in the world this country has had I think the 2nd worst infection and death rates in the whole world the government s approval rating said to be going up you surprised I am I think this government has made a total mess of this We ve had endless u. Turns endless locking the stable door after the horse has bolted too little too late. Heartbreaking stories you hear from doctors and nurses in the n.h.s. Which is so that that report made it very very vivid how how difficult things are but I think people are feeling kind of powerless as well because there s there s a sense that there s nothing that we can do which And I think the other thing is that there s a a weird kind of double reality about this I ve just had the thing. I ve just recovered 4 weeks in I was very lucky I had it mildly but I m still tired it s a really horrible virus but I go out you know in the park with the dog and there are lots of people everywhere walking close together without masks there s a kind of unreality about it even though we re seeing these pictures on t.v. We re hearing these reports unless you know someone who s had it all go died from it one in 660 people in this country has now died of code that it is absolutely shocking that we have in a letter paid to you spent part of lockdown in Germany and until recently Germany was held up as the European paragon for dealing with covert but there are what 1200 deaths a day at the moment. So Germany hasn t been doing so well recently and but it still compares favorably to Britain and and and I like to think that this has been. A terrible pandemic for libertarians because I do think ultimately the explanation for why Britain for example has done so badly has a with delayed and death and has never really brought in the right measures the right time is because people at the top of government people like Boris Johnson or Michael Gove are instinctively libertarian they do really don t believe in a strong state that interferes in people s lives and at a moment when a strong state that doesn t fear in people s lives is really required they re very reluctant and I think that s been that s been really difficult for them to manage that and it describes as if anything has shown that this idea of having a weak state a small stay that is on capable of really interfering in people s lives is not necessarily always right that people sometimes do. I want a competent capable strong government and and government leaders that are ready to use that sort of instrument in a time of crisis and are you surprised that crowded parks in London as Maria is I mean it s a crowded city people if they want to get outside their houses have few choices and but this is to some extent the explanation for why countries like Germany kind of a tear into the rules is no longer that strong you can t you can t lock people in for a year of course every in every country discipline to some extent is breaking down people are going out people are mixing to some extent because it is unbearable let s face it to be to be at home for a year with no end in sight thank you this is the b.b.c. World Service 26 minutes past the hour Uganda s long time president Yoweri most 70 has been reelected elected officials there say amid accusations of vote fraud by his main rival Bobby wine dozens of people were killed during violence in the run up to the election opposition politicians have also accused the government of Harris meant the result gives President with saving a 6th term in office the 76 year old in power since 1986 says he represents stability in Uganda the B.B.C. s least you said has been speaking to Bobby Wynona crackly landline is the Internet in Uganda still suspended What was his response to President to say Vinnie claiming victory. I have been thinking granted that it s not about will be blank I am a rallying point I came into this election to bring the people of Uganda to hear their own children our only table including but not limited to the Fool Turkey you have said all options are on the table including but not only peaceful protests are you calling for a violent reaction a seizing of power to no we despise violence that is a difference between us and gentleman saving we are in the food generation we are a nonviolent movement and a nonviolent political party we say that all peace will only all nonviolent or constitutional option on the table for that s just what s happening around your house now what is your own personal situation this moment right now my house is surrounded by a garrison of soldiers I am not allowed to leave my house when I tried to leave my house I was loved by Dimitri and even my wife had been sulking when she was trying to go and buy food so we are all rounded up and arrested me in our house however that does not mean the people of Uganda because I m only one of the 45000000 people in Uganda the people that i ending for change there for the future there s no child to liberalization it has no Still the people from the man you want is right he then . That was opposition leader Bobby wine in Uganda speaking to my colleague. B.b.c. . Distribution of the b.b.c. World Service in the United States is made possible by American Public Media producer and distributor of public radio content a.p.m. American Public Media with support from a personalized weight loss program based in psychology for helping people change their habits and conquer their goals. And. The b.b.c. World Service keeping up informed the night. Washington d.c. Now has more troops protecting it than our overseas war zones and the president has been impeached for his part in the attack on the Capitol but what about other politicians is dangerous rhetoric on the verge of a group going to do something crazy and violent there s you know we were. At Sunday on Weekend Edition from n.p.r. News this morning on 90 point one. B.b.c. News with David Harper Joe Biden s team has revealed details of up to a dozen executive orders which the u.s. President elect will sign within hours of his inauguration the measures will reverse key parts of Donald Trump s program include rejoining the Paris climate accord and scrapping a ban on travel from a number of largely Muslim countries thousands of National Guard troops have been deployed in Washington ahead of the ceremony on Wednesday police in the Afghan capital Kabul say gunmen have shot dead 2 judges both of them women as a wave of it has asked of assassinations continues they were killed as they were driven to work quite a modest says it sent almost a 1000 migrants back to Honduras as it tries to stop them reaching the Mexican border they re among about 9000 who are hoping to reach the United States the Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny is due back in Moscow later for the 1st time since he was nearly killed last year by a nerve agent attack he says the Kremlin was behind the attempt on his life and allegation the Russian government has denied Mr Valley faces arrest on his return the regulators in Brazil have rejected a request for emergency approval of the Russian corona virus vaccine Sputnik v they said the final phase of tests haven t been carried out in Brazil a local laboratory was planning to produce millions of doses of the vaccine. Japan s government spokesman says preparations to hold the delayed Tokyo Olympics are going ahead despite suggestions by a cabinet minister the games might not happen according to opinion polls most people in Japan want the Olympics to be put off or cancelled the u.s. Boats competing in the preliminary round of the Americas Cup in New Zealand has suffered a dramatic capsize the boat called American magic read into the air as it raced into a high speed turn the crew are said to be safe but it s unclear if the boat will be able to take any further part in the competition live from London that s the latest b.b.c. News. You re listening to Weekend from the b.b.c. World Service I m Paul Henley My guests are Maria modernise a writer and broadcaster of Greek origin based here in London and Peter Newman who s Professor of Security Studies at King s College London and founding director of the International Center for the Study of Radicalization both well qualified to talk about our next topic which is the fact that all 50 us States and the District of Columbia are on alert for possible violent protests today after posts on pro Trump and far right online networks called for armed demonstrations in a march in Washington d.c. On the day Joe Biden is to be inaugurated as new president that s Wednesday National Guard troops from across the u.s. Are being sent to the capital to discourage any repeat of the deadly riots that unfolded on the 6th of January how big a threat does far right extremism pose in America now that s a question we ll tackle in a moment 1st an overview of who exactly makes up the far right this is Dr Cynthia Miller Idris director of the polarization and extremism Research and Innovation Lab at the American University in Washington. Far right in the us represents a broad spectrum as we have white supremacists and neo nazi type groups there s also government patriot militia groups sometimes you have single what we call single issue groups like anti-abortion groups and now we have groups as well that kind of aren t always exactly on the far right like you and I that are conspiracy theories kinds of groups many of whom have become very far right oriented because they re mobilized around President Trump several 1000 of them that became mobilized to participate in violence on January 6th so did kind of move into the extremist fringe on that day of these groups you mentioned that ole tumble they not normally I mean they re not I mean some of them white supremacist groups are and what we call it celebration is groups who are really just promoters of violence anti-government groups often are completely against the government in general regardless of who the administration is and in some ways some of this violence has ties to the Oklahoma City kind of roots of anti-government extremist that bombing that we had in 1905 and even before violence that we saw from the anti-government friends in the 1980 s. And earlier so there is this long trajectory in the u.s. Of seditionist kind of anti-government sovereign citizen movements even as well as part of the far right but this is a little bit different because what you had I mean in 2017 we had a rally in Charlottesville that made news around the world as well called the Unite the right Rally which failed actually to unite the right they remained as fragmented as ever but this actually did unite the right in a different kind of way into a loose coalition that on that day were unified in an attempt to storm the capital a successful attempt in the end and potentially or thwarted them from enacting what could have been much worse violence Cynthia. Idris with that overview on the changing and violent scene of the far right in America how big is the threat they pose now a question that I put to Elizabeth Newman a former assistant secretary of counterterrorism and threat prevention that the Department of Homeland Security she resigned last April after 3 years in the post in protest at the Trumpet ministrations counterterrorism policies this threat is very intense especially at this present moment it has been on the rise for the last few years to the point where both f.b.i. And T.H. s during my tenure announce that we perceived to be the threat from right wing violent extremism to be on par with what we saw out of ISIS. Just said that in September 29th teen f.b.i. Said that in January of 2020 I believe where we are at this present moment is that it is far exceeded what we are seeing out of al Qaeda and ISIS in terms of its intent and capability and willingness to conduct violence as we saw last Wednesday with the attack on the capital. And in an interview after that attack on the capital I think you said that far right extremists were taking advantage of the fact that we re old turning a blind eye to it what do you mean by that there have been domestic extremist groups in this country for decades but in 1990 s. With the Oklahoma City Federal Building bombing that was the last time that was kind of on the radar of federal officials and the American public that we had these individuals in our country willing to kill their fellow citizens in the name of an anti government or white supremacist agenda after $911.00 everybody pivoted and started to focus on a very legitimate threat from Al Qaida and then later Isis I think many of us in the counterterrorism community viewed threats from domestic extremists it s largely a local law enforcement problem that started to shift around 2017 and really and to 2821000 it became very clear that not only do we have a threat within our country of the also who that the u.s. Was the primary exporter of this threat and as we were wrestling with this in the counterterrorism community we were trying to draw attention and we were kind of stonewalled by the political aspect many of the president s supporters were cozying up to some of this extremist element so when I talk about turning a blind eye some of that was the president and his team at the White House were unwilling to lead on this issue when we needed them to that then because they could not clearly articulate the threat there is was not a clear picture given to our law enforcement partners about the nature of the stretch so it was easy for them to perhaps miss it perhaps see them just as a bunch of protesters people that came to the Capitol on January 6th were white it might have been hard for certain members of law enforcement to think that they were capable of violence. Perhaps as some of them are members of these extremist groups themselves and or are sympathetic to their cries the bottom line is there was an outer security failure it is being investigated and I m sure as the facts come out we ll see that there s probably a number of factors that lead to that security failure and you ve got long standing concerns haven t you about the way the president himself handles this threat during the campaign his 1st campaign he was saying things that long had been considered politically incorrect in this country socially unacceptable could be any number of grievances that he sowed but that too many jobs are going overseas we re not taking care of our own people but it still quickly to we have a Hispanic and Asian of people who are coming to take what jobs remain and so we need to build a wall so there s buried within that political conversation the elements of racism elements of xenophobia all the way to the Muslim ban or refugee ceilings needing to be dropped a lot of his policies where in lockstep with what it white supremacist would want all of these issues of being perfectly obvious for years surely why did it take you until last April to resign it did take me some time to realize that the deference that I had given him was ill get into office and to learn about the job to learn that his words are having this great impact and help change he did not change change and it became very evident to me after all passed so when you had his words end up in a terrorist manifesto that he quite frankly didn t care if he was inciting violence I can hold you accountable if there are multiple examples that you have been confronted with where your words are leading people to violence Ok the far right threat doesn t go away just because President Trump is no longer in power would have been long term measures to stem the threat Yeah so I think our immediate concern is the next 2 weeks we have. Active a specific and credible threats for protests that are designed to be violent the longer term concern I have is that the moment that we saw last week which was a convergence of multiple different ideologies all of them came together in this toxic soup of anger and grievance that turned to violence out of that I think you have some that may get recruited by the more violent of them like the white hart movement or the anti-government extremist movements I m concerned about numbers growing and I m also concerned that particularly in the white her movement there apocalyptic vision is that a moment like what happened last week is kind of the start of a civil war we should expect to see more attempts at NASA tax in the coming days outside of this whole political and white power movement dynamic when the pandemic starts to wane and we start to reconvene and start to have mass gatherings again and very very concerned that we will see a spate of attacks and we re in a very precarious moment in this country Elizabeth Newman form a government insider in Washington d.c. Will be lucky to have with us one of the world s top terrorism experts pate annoying a professor of Security Studies at King s College London paid to you ve you ve written a book which you mentioned earlier about president trumps counterterrorism policy are you surprised to hear what Elizabeth Newman said about the far right being the main terrorist threat now bigger than ISIS No I think she s perfectly right and it s been building up for a for a number of years it s particularly dangerous because there s so many people involved in these boatman s when we talk about a kite ISIS supporters in in the United States of the year is over the last 20 years in America less than $500.00 people in the entire country over 2 decades were convicted do you how does and by. Activities now we re dealing with thousands of people who are potentially violent who are heavily armed tool to some extent infiltrate military and police and who to some extent have mainstream support so that s obviously a very very dangerous moment Maria mugger only as you ve tracked golden Dorn s journey in Greece from fringes to mainstream politics that quite a violent far right group what what comparisons can you draw Well I think one of the main points to make about Golden Dawn in comparison with America is that is the connection between this extremist far right group and government because when Golden Dawn was at its height it was tolerated by the government in power now we have a situation where we have a government in Greece New Democracy which is seen as center right but which has brought in some far right figures not members of Golden Dawn themselves but not so far from it Mike is what is this who has been appointed minister of the Interior who is deeply embedded in. And the deputy migration minister So if we re to see who s like Donald Trump referred to migrants has an armed invaders so that that moment of tolerance and encouragement by government seen as mainstream of far right elements is very dangerous and very difficult to unravel should the authorities Peter in Europe take heart from the fact the far right groups across the continent claim to have loads in common but a very bad at coordinating. Get to some extent but it s typical when a new movement emerges and and what Elizabeth had described is essentially a new movement it s a correlation of a lot of existing movements that disintegration is still very fluid there are nuclear hierarchies there nuclear structures but that emerges over time so we are at the beginning of the amount. Gins of something which may solidify over time so I don t think we should take heart of that it s quite typical of when something like this starts and in America is it solidifying. It is to some extent is quite Lessing around certain ideas like the Cure Nama ideas and of course Trump has himself done a lot to solidify that he is the ideological and personal kid that keeps the whole thing together and with him the idea that the election was stolen and that the whole system is illegitimate that s why it would be so important to mainstream Republican politicians to come out to respect and be honest to their voters and tell them no it wasn t stolen Joe Biden is your president now how big is the u.s. Threat are we talking civil war scale I don t think we are at that point yet even though of course civil wars have come out of balance of these small groups I still don t think that the majority of Republican still actually want a civil war but I kind of forsee for the next years is a potentially very dangerous violent terrorist threat substantial numbers of people but not necessarily a breakdown of the entire system let s get another u.s. Perspective Christian peach Illini was recruited into a neo nazi group in his hometown of Chicago in 1987 he was only nearly 14 years old he took part in violent attacks he enlisted new members and he became eventually a leader he also wrote and recorded racist music opening a record shop to sell the music promoting white supremacy but it was in that store that he d meet people who would challenge his beliefs leading him to abandon the movement in 1995 since then he s used his perspective to dismantle the very groups he was once part of when weekends are bannock a soppy spoke to him on the line from Chicago. Ago she asked him 1st about his involvement in a recent case that of Dylan Rufe the white supremacist responsible for the 2015 massacre of 9 black church members in South Carolina How did that come about in fact it was at the urging of somebody who was counseling him that I write him a letter so I did and I wanted to understand what drove a young man to do something so horrific and it was around that same time that I was shown a coast that Dylan roof had made in a white supremacist chat room just 7 months before he had committed the act of murder she had seen a documentary about skinheads of which I was 130 years ago and she was commenting on music that he had heard in that documentary and he posted the lyrics and journalist was interviewing me and it showed me this post and as I read these lyrics. Something came over me and I had to read them again because they seemed very very familiar and I after I read them the 2nd time and I recognized that the lyrics that Dylan Ruth had posted were actually lyrics that I had written. Almost 30 years ago with my band and I recognized also that I was partly responsible potentially for having inspired him that night it was a moment that I still have never forgot that made me just even more concerned about what was happening at more committed to trying to understand what was radicalizing young people on the internet and did you get any insight lots had happened did you ever get a response from him it will be one letter that I won t really repeat but you know it started off with you are a traitor but what I started to understand was that he was influenced by fake news and propaganda that he was reading on white supremacist websites. And what those websites were doing were publishing misinformation crime statistics that were very completely manipulated that were showing that black people were committing crimes against white people at unprecedented numbers and knees were being put out by propagandists in the white supremacist movement and targeting young people and what I found regardless of whether they re younger old is that they re searching for a sense of identity community and purpose or what people encounter on that path are potholes trauma abuse loss mental health poverty even privilege can be a pothole if it keeps us to separate from humanity and those potholes the tourist to the fringes or talks of narratives are very loud and what I m seeing now with all of the uncertainty in the world is that people are starting to gravitate to these very loud hate narratives that are promising to fill those voids how much of a stretch and fight extremism poses for American ally and we re talking after the events of the capital what we saw at the capital was very complex the people there were not just a singular monolithic group there were militia members or there were white supremacists there and there were generic Trump followers there are who you know have been fed these conspiracy theories there were 2 and on there the one thing that was consistent with an all those groups was the propaganda that drove them there and also the voice from very very top whose duns focus their energies into what ended up happening at the Capitol What is the best way to come from and found I had extremism and in America now institutional and systemic racism is something that we ve progressed down the road but we still have not read ourselves that is sort of a big spigot we have to cut the flow from that by reforming our systems to make it equitable what I think is very important to understand that there are 2 things that extremists love and that is silence. And violence if for silence if we don t do anything if we don t hold them accountable for what very clearly is acts of fascism and racism and xenophobia and massage and they ll continue to do that if we re filing towards They use that because they play the victim there it s why they march and places that are aggressive in places like Charlottesville they go to those places intentionally to draw attention because they know that they are creating anger and stir tact unprovoked they see that as an opportunity to play the victim so what we must do is we must cut the head off the snake and I say that metaphorically we have to make sure that the propagandists that the leaders the money influencers that are funding these groups that they are cut off and what we may see is the body of the snake be file and after we cut the head off that means that the snake is dying we must move in that direction because the momentum is now that fascism once again has reared its head up Christian peach Illini founder of the free radicals project a global it stream isn t Prevention Network Gade says it s helped over 300 people how important Maria do you think voices like Christians are oh I thought that was a tremendous interview someone who s known it from the inside is always vital I was very struck by how humane and thoughtful he was in what he was saying I think is absolutely right the head has to be cut off and then the people who are maybe drawn towards this kind of activity who can be weaned away from it must be supported to be weaned away it s easy to take a story pay to as one of maturing a but far right extremism isn t just a young person s thing it is needs and in fact it s actually very interesting because those of us who study radicalisation always assume that the. This was indeed a young people s problem that young people or have you know more prone to risk taking it is also what sociologists call a demographic availability that means people haven t trainee got so much commitments in terms of family in terms of professionals but what we see in this movement now are people in their thirty s forty s fifty s even people in the sixty s coming out this is very different from jihadist movements are the extremist movements that dead consists mostly of young people thank you you re listening to the b.b.c. World Service on Paul Henley with weekend so. Let s go to Germany now where the end of an era the era of Chancellor Merkel has moved ever closer the party the c.d.u. The Christian Democratic Union has governed Germany for 50 after the past 70 years and Merkel has been in charge for 18 of those years now the party has a new leader his name is mean lash it he s also a good chance to succeed Merkel as chancellor in the next general elections due in the autumn in Germany joining me on the line from Berlin Peter Meyer who is Germany s minister for economic affairs and energy also a close ally of Angola MacHall so you must be pleased Mr Altmire because this is the continuity candidate has won yes it is it is continuing this morning and. Gentleness they just stand there latches critical parts in. Creating most political. Landscape except the rest left wing and right wing extremists or. Whatever conservative Christian Democratic voters and yesterday s decision was the decision in favor of border right policies. It was a favor of European and international commitments it was a decision in favor of social market economy that was very important and it is a 1st step in the transition to the next generation of policy makers in Germany is it Ok to ask about successes 6. Because it s not. To say that. A leader of amazing long Javits he stood out in a crowd of world leaders because she was. Considered white middle aged men a success is. The Germany standing out process. Well. What I think is one of the styles of. The gender. Equality of treatment that equal rights that s been promoted and that progress was achieved not only female 16 almost 16 years back. Of the ministers from my party. We have. A prime minister in the German state. That s Had the fact that you cannot. You cannot adopt the legislation on. Time and continually. I mean that s a Democratic fact. I think it s not surprising that after such a long period. That. Ladies women. Control all of us. Political life saved by the coded crisis she was seen as tremendously reassuring for the German public at a time when she was actually in some political trouble. Let me put it like this the 6. Hours nowadays 15 years of going to metal chocolate chip candy corrected ice as a. Runner read intensive flop of political challenges to think of the euro crisis all those economic crisis in 2009 and then the out of it challenges to creating crisis and at the end the end of the. Last time in office again. And what we can see as the Trust me I m sure to the people of America at the end of the tour is appreciated by almost 70 percent of German voters. It is present it will Germany Mr. Well I think that. It s. Hard to put it to very little assess I mean. There. Was no no a political hides she has she has changed I. Think both of the city on international scene. There s excellence on one hand. To make sure that continue we are guaranteed the same time we have to earn this for Taishan that s not an easy task for their farm to see an optimist experienced Carmelo s the biggest. Failure now being that. Germany s minister the economic thing. This is 90 point one w.e.b. And that is choice for n.p.r. . In the next city lights we go beyond Teo to the cheeks Dr Scott Stewart brings us Presidential music ahead of the inauguration. Joining us Tuesday adding to that the Navy 19 point one down but you may be.