For decades, the times has worked provides a highest quality coverage. But that is no longer good enough in the internet era. The innovations report encourage what he called Audience Development. Find a variety of ways to reaching out to potential readers. How have you responded . Arthur a great question. In the business and newsroom. I want to go back to the earlier. When i gave the 800,000, i forgot, i can clear it up. It is 1. 1 million print subscribers when you included the weekend. I want to get the number of back to where it belongs on the weekend, sunday paper. The innovation report was a wonderful wakeup call. As you might recall, it was written on behest of dean and jill abramson, then the executive editor and empower 18 of some of our best journalists to look deep it ourselves. And then it was leaked. It was never written to be linked. At first, without it was awful. Only a few days later that we realize the power of what had happened. People around the world embraced the fact that the times had the courage to do a deep journalistic dive on its self and really say what is what we are done right and what we must improve on. And ive got to say within a month, i cannot tell you how many calls i received from other Newspaper Publishers around the world asking for too common meet with the people who did the innovation report. It really was a wonderful wakeup call. When dean became executive editor at the same time, one of his first steps was to reach to our business side and take out and make for a mass executive in charge of Audience Development. As you noted, one of the great findings was the journalists must take greater responsibility for building their audience. Welcome to the world of social media. Fewer people come to our home page and more to want to engage with our journalism on facebook and other platforms. How do we get people to engage in that way . And i dare you to name the last business side person who became a head executive on the other side. There isnt any. It was a really bold move. It has worked extremely well. Well done subsequent work to say here is what were door right and what we need to push what we are doing right and what we need to push harder. As soon as you catch up, the digital universe shifts. You have to start saying, it is not as much about the search as he used to be. It is now more about social. How do we adapt . Dean the audience of the New York Times has risen by 25 . I am an editor who wants the journalism of the New York Times to have impact. I do not want to do big, lush investigative stories and have them going to vacuum were nobody reads it down. We have tools to make sure more people read. That is terrific. Arthur when you look at the times globally, almost 75 million users. Jack let me head back to the relationship with business and news side. Jennifer spoke about trust in the times. Traditionally the time to try to maintain the trust by scrupulously maintaining a chinese wall between new side and business side. Now, they are not just two sides, there are the three sides print news, business, and technology. An example was the wonderful work on nail salon workers. In my day, the times the times when launched a series, it would be a splash on page one on sunday. This one was launched online and on thursday. It led some print subscribe that why are we getting the stale stuff on sunday. Arthur to be clear, very few complained. [laughter] we are learning and adapting. If you do not have the courage to try new things and grow, you are going to fail. That is the reality of the world we are in. I applaud what the dean and his colleagues did which is to increasingly say lets put the story out when the story is ready. There are some people who are going to read it then and others will read it later on a different in print. Not about the device. When i say device, i mean print as well. As you so eloquently stated from decades ago, we must of the platform agnostic. Go to where the people are. And increasingly that means mobile. And as you probably know, we are doing a test right now at the New York Times. Dean there is a myth, is remarkable to me as much as people look at journalism and journalists and newspaper so closely how ignorant we are of the history. Act as l. A. Times if i had a big project that was going to run about Orange County government that was the giant next to l. A. , next to a life and death competition. If i had a big story that was going to run about Orange County, i would go to the circulation director and say please tell me which today you will have the most papers distributed in Orange County. If they said to me, monday, i would run it on monday. To me, the question i asked myself, i want a story to be read. I wanted to have impact. I am fundamentally an idealist about journalism and the idea i want as many people to read it. I want it to have impact. I wanted things to change as result of hardhitting stuff. The only way you could do it is to be widely read. This permits arthur is referring to is to make sure everybody in the building knows how many of our readers are on the phone. We made it so if you type onto your laptop, it takes you to the phone app. Jack which side of the chinese wall is Audience Development lie on . Dean my view is it lies, part on my side. Probably a little bit in advertising. Can i back of one thing . The chinese wall has never been in newspapers between newsrooms and the entire business side. That was never the case. There is always been promotion. The wall of existence between newsrooms and advertising. Not a newsrooms and technology. Not newsrooms and circulation. Not newsrooms and promotion. That has always been the case. Jack talking about Audience Development, what new forums lie ahead . I would be interested in your experiments with instant articles on facebook and apples new news app. Dean what kind of stories are we doing . Jack i can make a complicated question. [laughter] risking a lot when you give these articles out for free. Dean here to me is the risk. I keep going back to wanting to be read. The biggest risk is not the goal where your readers are area the biggest risk is to not to go to places where there are millions and millions of people who want to read. The biggest risk is to stay out of that world. That is why we felt we had to experiment with people like facebook and apple. Jack if the experiment is not making any money . Arthur that is not the case. If you do not risk knowing you will not fail, you will fail automatically. You know the famous case. Umm what was the . I am blessed without the next. The titanic fallacy. The titanic fallacy is the question, what was the fatal flaw of the titanic . Some people will say, you know the captain trying to set a worlds speed record. Some people note they do not have enough lifeboats. Some they do not build the walls high a note to ensure it was unsinkable. The answer is none of that. Even if the tide has safely made it to new york harbor, it was still doomed. Because a few years earlier, two brothers had invented the airplane. [laughter] so, we are in the world where we must shift the industry is great and it is there and we have boats for all of you. We must become an airplane company, too. That means trying things testing, having the courage to invest and not just financially. And say, that work on how do we build on it . And that did not work, next. Thats what were trying to do. The key point, you have to increasingly go where the audience is. That does not mean our journalism is going to change but our presentation may change. The way we scroll on the small devices is totally different experience than on a laptop. We have to adapt. Jack let me ask dean a question. A lot of airplanes in the air now and they are faster and more more nimble dean but they are not better. Jack the tradition of careful editing, going way into latenight deadlines. A lot of nimble startup sites, including welcome honestly be called parasites. [laughter] jack how do you compete . Dean whenever theres a big news story, if you want to use the example of the plane crash in the alps. People go to the New York Times by the millions. First, we break the story is pretty secondly, we do not make mistakes. Certainly because i will get to those. We are indeed a human enterprise. We do make mistakes. Lets keep going. Anyway, the New York Times is fully edited as it was in print. People still come to us for news. If you ask me, who my biggest competitors are, largely the same competitors we had in the predigital era. The News Organizations, and some european papers. The party and the guardian, the wall street journal, they keep me up at night and they kept me up and i 20 years ago. Arthur i want to go back to mistakes. Ive said, we make mistakes. What the dean is saying its really important in this sense. We are both seen the being such a critical element in digital age more so than earlier print era. Everyone wants to be first. All of a sudden, competitors and throwing up photos of the boston bombers. Oops. Turns out they were not the boston bombers. They were innocent kids. People were saying the Supreme Court has ruled on the health care bill. And then, going out with the wrong ruling. We what dean is trying to say is we pride accuracy so much that we are prepared we are not prepared to be first and wrong. We are prepared to be fourth fifth and right. That is a core value. Dean let me inject some humility into my answer. Here is what we try to do im not the Supreme Court issues its ruling on the obama Administrations Health Care plan. We knew it would be this huge, complicated ruling. We knew if we tried to assess it quickly in realtime we would get it wrong. We wrote a memo on our website and said that. Please indulge us. Give us time to read it. What other organizations did they read the first half the ruling flipped in the middle. We did not. We waited as adam said there was enough time to write it. We work really hard not to make mistakes. We dont let speed i understand that the greatest currency we have is that we work hard to be accurate, edited and truthful as possible. I understand i cannot squander that. Jack ive talked to some talented tech people who said they left the times because the News Department people patronized them as Service Assistance rather than recognizing them as innovative partners. Is that a fair criticism . Dean i bet you that is a fair criticism. I bet there was a period i will hope that the assessments would be different now, but i bet people would have said for a long time that we did not quite understand how Much Technology people in the whole of the New York Times had to offer. Arthur dean made another important hire in kinzie wilson. Dean hired a new head of digital who used to be at npr. Kinzie came to the times, but what happened is after he settled in the newsroom as the head of digital, our new ceo mark thompson, recognized yes, that is who we need on the business side as well. Kinzie wilson is a joint report to dean and our ceo with Technology Reporting to him across. That is critical because what we need to do is be faster and be more nimble. We need to make decisions less complex. In other words, i dont have to have seven bosses, each of whom have three. That speed to market issue is a critical one and, to your point of critics you have spoke with it does empower our digital team, news and business, to feel equal. Jack two different people. Mccallum and kinzie wilson, do they have revenue obligations . Dean direct revenue obligations . If you increase the size of the audience, you increase the number of subscribers. You get more advertisers. Does she have any direct revenue obligations . She does. It is part of the business side largely. It tries to design stuff for the future. In the world of print, it wouldve been the group of people who created the food section. But now, we are likely to take products out of the journalism we produce. Arthur lets not pretend they started to rethink the paper back in the 1970s that there was not fundamental need for revenue. They recognized they had to meet that. This is not unique. This is just transferring that to a digital era. Jack what papers do you read in the morning . [laughter] dean i start out by looking at the New York Times on the phone to find out what i missed at night. Partly to get a sense of experience. I read the New York Times pretty thoroughly in print. I read the journal, the post, the guardian. The Washington Post. [laughter] arthur no, but then i read the New York Post on the subway. I dont pretend i read every word. Dean i spin through other sites that have specific stuff. I look at courts for business stuff and media stuff. If a lot of it depends on the big news story of the day is. We look at buzzfeed or reddit. I look at facebook pretty regularly which gives me a glimpse into old another realm into a whole other realm. Jack do you tweet . Arthur i dont. Dean there was a famous quote from sally who said you could work for the times or you could read it. But you cannot do both. [laughter] i sometimes feel unlike dean, i go to it first on my phone. That is how i will catch up on the morning reading stuff. Nyc is engaging. What i have learned is i go to the pieces that we suggest we go to. Jack i want to ask a business question. Why is Digital Advertising so cheap when it produces relatively little revenue compared to print even though it has many more readers . Arthur that is a great question to ask google. The first reason is the cost is much less. The cost of producing Digital Advertising is less. Obviously, there is no paper, no trucks, no mailers and drivers. The cost of getting Digital Advertising is significantly less than print. That is one reason. The second is there are so many places to go. What we are learning over time is how little affect some of those places really have on affecting actual purchasing. But, it is a evolving process. Many of our advertisers recognize the value of both. There are times you want to be in print because it has a much greater sale possibility. People will actually focus on it and make a purchase decision. If you are telling a story digital is a remarkable tool. One of the great creations of our head of revenue is the creation of an inhouse Storytelling Lab for advertisers to use. That has been, that branded content has become a great tool for advertisers. That is not a little popup ad that is an immersive experience. People really do gravitate to that. There are lots of new Digital Tools we are using and Getting Better at. Dean that leads to the ultimate financial question. Jack even assuming, how is your pension doing . [laughter] jack not the same as yours. Even assuming you succeed in developing a larger digital audience, given how cheaply people can buy Digital Advertising, can you generate the serious revenue necessary to pay for quality journalism . 200 million a year. Arthur the answer is yes. We have to do that. The mission of the times has not changed since it was founded in 1851, since 1896. That mission has to be funded. That is to produce the quality journalism that attracts a quality audience that we in turn sell to quality advertisers. But, the value of our subscription plan, digital subscription plan has made it such that it is much it is as much getting the readers to engage with us in such a way that they say yes, this subscription is worth it as it is to build that advertising base, also critical. As we go back to those original numbers, the subscription value print or digital is one of the core that will give us the ability to support that journalism that they are doing so well. Again, dean, congratulations on your pulitzer prizes. Lets not pretend advertising is not a critical part of the picture. Jack understood. Arthur it is a combination of the two. The final thought i have is as we continue to grow and continue to grow our base of readers that advertiser will play a deeper role. It is an evolving picture and it is Getting Better. Jack dean, i want to ask you a question as a sometime victim. Dean you or me . Jack you. How are the public editors jobs working out . Dean i used to think when i was at the l. A. Times, we had a discussion about whether we should have a public editor. The late john carroll and i decided not to. I have to say i think having a public editor is a great thing. Im surprised i feel that way. [applause] dean i think it is a great thing for budget reasons. First off, i think it gives people even though in the digital era, many people can criticize. It is not hard to get to us. It does give people a sense that the institution is listening even though i have no power over her. She can criticize me and she often does. She i think people feel like there is some place they can go in the institution. I think she is often right when she beats us up. I think even when she is wrong she is reasonable and fair. It is probably not a bad idea for newspaper editors to understand what it is like to be on the other end of criticism and questions. Even though there are times when i would like to sort of lock her in her office and unplug her computer, in the long run, it is good im speaking of margaret largely because she has been editor in my time it is a good institution. It has been helpful for the paper. I support it now. Jack let me ask one more question and well turned to the audience. Arthur, critics sometimes cry nepotism about the fact that you [laughter] jack and your son and half a dozen other family members arthur i thought you would be attacking my father. [laughter] arthur Say Something nasty about punch . Jack let me in large the question then. [laughter] jack the fact is that kind of criticism has seemed to be misguided. It ignores the fact that other famous journalism families like the chandlers in los angeles the bi