China is a partner with us. We exchange students, exchange faculty come all for the betterment of scholarship and for research. Not directly involved in those sordid discussions but it bears, we may be able to play along the way we might think about how we can be helpful to someone. I will add one more point because its important. Theyre making a lot of judicial changes. They established a special is ip core to your ip cases. This is a national court, not local. Its a national court, very much looking through it as an experience or judicial reform, greater amount of transparency into the recordation of their opinions, allowance of our discovery and maybe even greater damages or towards along the lines for ip rights. Those are positive changes were looking forward to. I think theyre working very hard on. I think it is a positive step. Out of are basing office weve been working with the ip court in the last six months they been established. Doing training for the judges and holding fairest seminars on induction pump issues. They been going to come with a very positive reaction to the. Its been great to see the Chinese Government take that step and they seem to be taking it seriously. When i talk to people from Chinese Companies it appears to me that they are eager to incorporate themselves into sort of the global norms so they can sell those global markets. I dont always get that sense would talk to people from other governments. And along what i think youre right, this will be positive. Lets swing up in the back. And then well go in the front. Raise your hand again please. Thank you. Hi. I am from college international. We get access to medicine and access to knowledge work. Either question about the pharma carveout in the review process. It seems that would require differential treatment to the enjoyment of pharmaceutical patent rights as compared to other fields of technology but the u. S. Pharmaceutical industry critiques countries like india currently that treat patent differently in other areas of pharmaceutical patent law such as lost of the patents on drugs that dont show an improvement in safety or efficacy. So the question is if this carveout provision passes will that make it more difficult for the u. S. To argue against those in places like india that have differential treatment . I thought about having someone from pharma here or one of the groups. We dont have enough space on the stage. I apologize for that. Michelle, i think so thanks so much for that question. I think you are concerned are interesting and valid concerns. As you know its a topic being discussed. It has not gone through, legislation is passed by think this is a concern a lot of people are focused on. Okay. Its interesting. Its fun to compared china and india in this regard are chinese and somewhere our little further along into thinking about the benefits of intellectual property protection, in my view but its one of places we see disparities in the economy. Its not a pharma specific comment, more between the two countries administered to fully. Its an issue of concern. We had one in the front i think and then another in the back. Im with the american bar association. I am a senior counsel at and want to thank you all for giving the patent goes together and getting them in one space. Victoria, we worked together on a report and we were the first time when they not only china but russia and iran as advanced threats in this space. My question is russia also plays a big role as a violator and im in private practice now and i think the enforcement issue is what were really concerned about for our clients. Using a variety of activities that combines both patent trademark and cyber in which things are going for. Im curious also most recently we just had the indictments of University Professor and the fact that universities are involved in cutting edge work with the military and dod and were seeing more and more penetration at university and that information is leaking out. For all three of you in a way what do you see as the role we can play in the private sector in increasing the capacity for enforcement, given the fact were seeing extraordinary bleating from our clients trademark ip worked . You can go first. I would say in russia, we have real concerns about the situation on the ground. Enforcement of intellectual property never a strong suit for russia, certainly deteriorating i think. And i dont think thats talk of intellectual property, i just think theres a lot of areas we are unhappy with the russian government. One number two intellectual property is recently passed. We are concerned about any country that would pass legislation to assess information or data has to stay within the borders. Trying to balkanize the internet. That is a real concern for software. And would be a real, if widespread would be a real blow to the problems depicted. It makes Cloud Computing impossible essential on any sort of skill. We are concerned about some stops rush has taken. I will say they would be interesting to hear what others say, some of the stuff russia has taken, for example, on Data Retention law are coming from a very senior level of the russian government. So it is difficult candidly sitting here to give advice on how to try to improve the situation in russia. We have found on the enforcement side at the less senior levels there is still an interest in trying to Work Together. I think its difficult in a system like russia to be able to make progress, a signal youre getting from the top is a different one. Let me reemphasize something. I dont think the enforcement of intellectual property we are having is really kind of the main focus. I think thats a negative corollary effect of the large economic policies that were concerned about but that is one of the effects. As i said, whereas in china i think and look at the situation in china. There are real concerns but this area looks like its going to be difficult to have constructive steps but in other areas, there are others areas where government and business can Work Together. At this moment in russia its hard to say that. Its difficult for me to give advice on how to improve the system. We have operations in russia. We are concerned about personnel and the general state of our preparations. Said something were keeping a very close eye on. But i think, but its difficult at the moment to see any fast forward. Inand the last thing i will say on russia, what were concerned about his of the country looking to rush as a precedent. Weve not seen that yet but certainly it would be a great concern if we start to see other countries look to for example, a Data Retention law that russias put in place as a positive example. I will speak more to sort of the patent and copyright side of equation, and we share the concerns. In fact, we recently have now established an ip attache in moscow. For those of you dont know we have an ip attache program, that is the u. S. Pto represented on the ground helping americans navigate the ip landscape in a given country. We have a ip attache sal range of countries, about a dozen worldwide, brazil, new delhi brussels we have three or four three in beijing. s weve got these resources on the ground and because the landscape is as challenging as mentioned, we thought it important to offer that resource so that American Companies know what theyre stepping into. Is not the complete solution but is really a sharing of of information and chatting about the navigate that if i but given what it is. And also importantly its the opportunity to work with policymakers and lawmakers and Law Enforcement officials on the ground to try to do what we can to improve the situation is a difficult situation. Im not pretending its not the least bit were on the ground where the billy some ability to get better information about the conditions under which American Companies are operating to try to make a positive change in the law but also so that in washington, so i with you for those of you who represent companies who are facing these issues, let us know the experiences are facing into the state you can be more specific, we can raise these issues in these concerts in conversation with specific examples to which i can play makes a difference otherwise youre just stating a generalization. Trade secrets not being respected. Under what circumstances and so forth . Please do let us do not because we do gather that information and an Arch Communications in discussions with her counterpart offices will have those conversations and we will raise those issues. One thing i want to emphasize, as i said there are certain levels that there are still areas to cooperate. And ministry of interior were still seeing cooperation. Thats great saw it encourager clients webbased deal bipartisan cooperation, try to work with the russian government. And in the addon about bringing concerns to use government, theres an agreement between ustr and russias pacific on the enforcement of a larger property that has obligations the russian government has committed to work on. And bringing concerns to ustr and officials had asked the as specific as possible could be one potential avenue. Im sure that we will be enthusiastic not take it upon. Whether or not the russians respond is a different question. Theres a specific agreement negotiated in chief you couple that with very specific concrete concerns, that may be a possible avenue. Theres a lot of potential jokes with russian trademark violations but i in it is a time will skip them. Im going to interrupt you now and ask a question. Want to do things i know michael has wrestled with, we probably all have how do you measure success . A lot of times particularly for innovation you count the number of ph. Ds or number of startups, number of patents. You can use time. Type is an okay proxy. How long does it take . What are the rates of challenge with what are the litigation rates . Thats not a positive indicator by the way. How do you measure success . What do you to look at when you try to say this is working not only in the patent system but its something that contributes to the American Economy . Thats something the higher entity has been with for a number of years is how you measure output. You can measure it loss of numbers you can put on patents and starters and that sort of thing. The aau association of American University association of public land universities set up task forces as fall to walk through that discussion but think about more about why we do what we do. Why are we in this business why are we in this innovation business . If you look at the result each came up in a parallel track they are essentially saying the same thing. Julie about doing this activity this transfer, this discovery to commercialization really on the basis of the public good. Thats how it onto value but. You can track a lot of these different variables but it doesnt they the right story. I was just at the buyout Industry Convention two weeks ago, or three weeks ago in philadelphia. First time ive been there. Its an amazing trade show. They hundreds if not thousands of companies talking about the work theyre doing to solve Health Issues or agricultural issues, and amazing an amazing place. Itthere were some Amazing Stories told about this sort of thing about people, the people stories about a little girl who had a rare form of cancer and had run out of ideas and this doctor came up out of the box solution and she walked on to that set four years later, cure to the cancer. There wasnt a dry eye in the place. Those of the stories you want to see. Thats one way one can measure the its anecdotal yes but the more those stories, theres a lot of stories out there. When peoples lives have been changed by the work being done by researchers both on campuses and companies and labs National Labs all around the country. This is an issue thats hard to quantify. I think if you look at it on balance it wouldve been the effect on the economy and on the country as a whole. Are we better off economically and with that of all the of health care . Are we training the next generation of scientists which i would say we certainly are. The biggest tech transfer a universities is not this movement of ideas out of the marketplace. Its sending out millions of educated students into the economy to do great things. Whatever the job might be whether its Research Related or not. Thats really an important measure to. I think you look at these things its hard to agree on one certain set of criteria youre going to use but i would say the overall benefit of this enterprise ought to be is the country in a better place . Are these measures in this way than it was five years ago 10 years ago, whatever. I think it is important to have metrics like number of patents. I do think they should be the measure of success but its not have those. You can see this big swings. Im going to answer the question from the Government Point of view. I think governments are good at many, many things. Governments are important to governments are not particularly good at innovating. But private citizens are tremendously good at innovating. So i think from a Government Point of view a measure of success should be whether the government can credibly say that it has stepped back and remove as much friction from the Health Care System as possible to let inventors innovate. And the weather that is acacia this an immigration system that makes it is easy as possible to get still into this country, whether that is making sure theres an Education System that ensures that we have our own pipeline of young innovators in Software Engineers and developers and bioengineers coming up to the system. Whether that is making sure have a litigation system that is suffering unnecessary stand in the system and diverting money from research and develop it into litigation. To me that would be the measure of success looking at all the different factors of innovation has the government done everything it can come, get do everything hasnt done everything he can to make as much friction out of the system as possible so that individuals and companies and universities can create and innovate as much as they possibly can spent out of have much to add to that. I agree. Do you have a whiteboard in your office that has number of days, number backlog . Weekly check all of those things. Ive ever talking more global, lofty if you nothing to add spent we track our time, we track the number of cases in a patent trial appeal board that are adjudicated within the one one and a half years statutory front hybrid which is been one of of them. We track track these cases clinical particular and so far theyve been a firm. On the issues that sort of how do we measure the effect of government and government policy on innovation, i think victoria and michael hit it just right. We track the number of cases in we measure everything. Whether or not, can you ever see like i dont know biotech for example, going up they track the trends and 50 diagnosed what upswings pronouncements are having . We see trends and a lot of them are macroeconomic trends. Theres our filing fee of backlog, the economy or what have you. What we are doing it is trying to make our data to think about it, u. S. Gpo has a lot of valid information which is a telltale sign of of a certain trends a direction where investments are made where companies are actively engaged. We are looking forward to that Data Initiative the department of commerce and at the pto to make available publicly available information about patent filings so that people, businesses can take it and make informed business decisions. Where is the activity occurring . What region is a lot of this talent located to unleash the kind of information and to make it available. I think theres tremendous Economic Impact and sort of societal planning benefits for our country. I was going to commend the pto for the work that has continued to dig into this backlog. I remember dave telling a story about once a week it was said that in his office have them printed and the 100 oldest test application and they were disposed of in that they essentially. As weight is a look these people been hung up three four five, however long its been. Itsits unfair to cut its unfair to try to hold up their innovation because of our bureaucracy or because of whats going on. Thats why were all in favor of you having more resources so you can deal with that and continue to get the process of getting applications look at adjudicated and out the door as fast as you can. Leadingedge indicators come if youre putting more on the market, thats great. We had a question in the back. Thaddeus burns from ge. We had to sort of patients, the senate and house version to be interested in hearing from you which of those do you believe is tuned to come as you put it nicely, victoria, taking the most out of assistant i think you put a really well and talk about political coming up on stage making sure that were going to be as innovative as possible or do you favor the house or the Senate Version . And why would that be . Ill start. Let me start. The higher a committee has been working closely the city. We appreciate the 10 and which without negotiations on a number of issues. Thethat draft was voted out of committee several weeks ago has improvements on two of the major points were concerned about. One is the shifting language and also to join the peace which allows, try to reach back to people for other investors and i think the way the senate bill is written is a better way to sort of shield of people who shouldnt be held liable in a certain situation. The house bill would pretty much have indicated is not your liking on a number of reasons. Those are two areas in particular that weve highlighted in the past. All of our statements have been public about that so thats kind of where we are. We were talking beforehand i think the Senate Discussions are continuing. I dont think i get the sense theres not before time to take up that bill before the fall. So theres further discussion opportunities there. I think the house is looking to act soon on their bill so we will see how that all plays out. So i would say what you might e