The 2020 election hosted by the Washington Post, this is live coverage on cspan2. To get back to normalcy has caused them to over and over be unproductive in bringing about longterm systemic changes that are actionable, that are satisfying in the cause of america to live up to the creed, weve got the right ideals, we just dont live up to them. I am sally, author journalistic contributor to the Washington Post. Today we are going to discuss the evangelical christians in their vote. We have two great guests today and our first guest im happy to say is bishop from the potter house in dallas, texas. Welcome bishop. I just want to remind you the last time i interviewed you we were on a tight budget and we did not have a makeup person so i had to make you up right before the interview. [laughter] and i still have the little makeup segment that is in a box in my prize possession. That is so sweet of you, i getting used to today. Today i want to start by asking you about three issues at our forefront in all of our minds, racism, coronavirus and Police Brutality and all of those are affecting the black community more than anybody else in this country, i just want you to point out whether you think that the White Christians are speaking up enough about the issue. I dont know about enough, i dont know if anybody is speaking out enough about it but im pleased to see, there is more unification around some of these issues then there has been historically and we have a long ways to go and im not inclined over the issues as we should be, i think that our country they have a tendency to be no spying, theyre not affected by what theyre accustomed to where as in the black community we have to be affected by it because we live with every day but there is more now than there has been historically and that is encouraging. You talking about buyin among the white evangelical christians questioning. Yes im im talking about if you look at the people protesting, there was wax and im not sure they were all christians but they were all concerned, we did not see the diversity in the 60s that were seen today and all that stuff is encouraging, i think the white evangelicals are using their voice and their little uncomfortable when they Say Something and theyre afraid of being criticized and saying something wrong, no matter what do you say youre going to be criticized in the polarized society by one side or the other and ministers are trying to figure out how do they engage in conversation and not lose her own constituency. To think why christians have given up on White Christians . Evangelical christians questioning. Yes i think the divide between the White Christian the black christians is broader than its ever been its not that we dont agree about faith but when faith becomes too politicized at the detriment of both parties, i think both sides have been politicized to a degree that it has created a further goal that doctor king described 60 years ago and made 11 00 oclock been the most divided our in the country, i think that is exacerbated in the current climate you said and have said you cannot be a good christian and be silent and yet there are so many particular white evangelical christians who have been silent and as you say a lot of the white evangelical christians, i know this from talking to people about the issue are afraid to speak up, is that the bottom line for you that you cannot be a good christian and stay silent . I think there is a mandate, the jesus of the spirit of the lord god is upon to preach to the brokenhearted and divide up the wounds of the brokenhearted, i dont think you can see someone bleeding and walk across the other side of the street and say you are christian like, having said that i do supervise or empathize with White Christians who have tried to Say Something and really ended up sticking their foot in the mouth and encourage them to keep talking, there will be criticism, youre not going to get it right at first were having a very difficult conversation that several hundred years old and i would rather you break the silence and Say Something wrong then not say anything at all and act like you dont see the innocent killings of our people, that you dont see that we cant go jogging, that you do not see that were not safe in our own home, that you dont see george floyd screaming for his dead mother while he dies on the sidewalk to act oblivious to that is the input this is to everything that i stood for, we may struggle to do it but i think it ought to be done. When you have these conversations, what do they say to you . A lot is fear and not knowing how and never addressing it before and a lot of it is a privilege that black people have not enjoyed, we cannot as a black person get a ged in this country without understanding how the White Community works. But you can get a phd and not understand how the black community works, thats a luxury that is forcing people to have to study during the george floyd crisis books on black history were the fastest selling books on history because people were having to bone up on something that they did not know anything about, they did not know anything about juneteenth or the rioting and toll saw and they did not know anything about rosewood, those are the things that have not been taught in our schools or talked about in nonblack circles and theyre starting to be talked about today. When you talk about the division and particularly the 11 00 oclock most segregated hour on sunday, what do you think the differences between the role of a black pastor and a white pastor today . I think it is quite huge, were expected to do things that white pastors are not expected to do because of the Civil Rights Movement in the 60s was born out of a church because the first schools were in our churches, our churches have to be more than just spiritual institutions, they have to be the hub of the community, they have to be engaged in the Public Square and being a voice for the voiceless, they have to be so many more things that were custom to having to do, we have to be therapists and counselors and a whole lot of other things but most of our heroic figures through history have come out of the pulpit or the White Community has a lot of heroic figures but up until president obama we never had a president , all we had were pastors whether you are reverend Jesse Jackson or reverend al sharpton or reverend Frederick Douglass all the way back to those days, they were always clear julie, the definition of what it means to us is somewhat different, i want to interject this too, most of us boat around the issues that we have been taught that are important to our community, we share fidelity with the white evangelicals on conservative ideas and principles but we dont have the luxury to vote because what we dont share is a concern about the Digital Divide and the lack of housing and pay opportunities, the criminal justice system, the black on black crime, the blue on black crime, the Police Brutality are not things that are on the white clergy rater and theyre finally starting to get on the reader but they have not been historically, we cannot vote with the view of a few issues, we have to look at the totality of the Human Experience about this. A lot of what you focus on his Economic Issues with the congregation. Not really, economic, education, housing opportunities, Digital Divide, lifestyle issues, bread and butter issues, and our family many single mothers that are fighting for the rights and were paid less because theyre black and women and they become the bread winners for our families, we have a lot of problems that we have to deal with and is not economic, and social, i dont care how wealthy you are if youre driving on the street as blue lights go off behind you, your heart races because youre not sure amongst the many Wonderful Police officers that we have, i actually pastor the chief of police or the city of dallas and lots of Police Officers go to church and another great Police Officers but the moment today if you criticize the few that are not going well and you draw attention to that many dont support the blue, everybody has to choose the side and when reality you can support great Police Officers and still hold other Police Officers accountable like we do doctors, like we do pallets and anything else, like this climate were in right now we lost our ability to reason together income to compromise and come to understand one thing does not litigate the other. Heidi feel about the slogan all lives matter and blue lives matter. Let me respond to it like this, we have Breast Cancer month we dont say you didnt say anything about alzheimers, you know when the house is on fire you dont complain to the firemen because they didnt, you go to the house thats on fire, right now black and brown houses are on fire and the statement black lives matter does not mean that white lives do not matter, absolutely does not mean that it does mean these are the lives that are disproportionately on fire, not only by criminal justice, not only by Police Brutality but also by the covid virus, when you say black lives matter is not just about brutality its about education, its about opportunities, its about health issues, it covers the whole gamut of things where we have been demoralized with a high rate of death of her wome f they have children, so many areas in almost every area it is reinforced that we dont get the same medical care and healthcare in the same education, it does make you answer questions, do we matter . Is there anything that the black lives Matter Movement is doing that you think is unwise, are they getting it wrong or right most of the time. First of all i think this is gone far beyond, the organization is turned into a movement, the organization is one thing in the movement is completely different, the slogan has taken on all over the world and you people all over the world in europe and africa, that is not all connected to the organization and i think what is taking place many people have bought into the reality that they want to be a part of history and black lives do matter, i appreciate that and i support the Overall Concept of black lives matter and apart from the organization and its values of what is trying to do and i think its taken on a life of its own and however, i dont think we can win this battle just about protest and at some point protest have to convert to the change of policy and i think were at that point right now and we have to take we have to move away and disavow all violence, i think its a distraction from the overall message that we are trying to make and we need to take her violence internet and to vote in on every level of government vote to the people who get and understand that we are not willing to live with the abnormalities in the discrepancies in our care, and our safety and wellbeing, anytime you are not safe in your own home, Breonna Taylor lane in her own bed, anytime you cannot go jogging that is too much to tell us to be quiet about, we cannot be quiet, we cannot be quiet about that. What has donald trump done right on the black lives matter issue, what do you think the role is of a president during a time like this . I dont know what hes done right about the black lives matter issue, i will give credit to the criminal justice strives that have been made up and those are important strives that have been made and i think there step in the right direction and i hope the states will follow the federal example because the vast majority of africanamericans are not in federal prison so i do to my head to that, i think the Opportunity Zone was well intended and we have to work harder to make sure that it does what it was intended to do in upgrading the standards of community. As far as i know he has avoided supporting black lives matter in any way and i wish that were different, i am no longer looking to the white house to fix this issue, i think the people on the streets of america, we the people have to rise up and reshape our country and our World Without waiting for the messiah like figure to come in and fix all the problems thats missed in america today. You have a foundation in a plan, can you tell us about that . I started the foundation and i started it because i was concerned about housing and concerned because black, white and brown people often cannot afford to live in the city that they serve, we clap for them as First Responders during covid19, we gave them flowers, our church went out and fed them and we did all sorts of things that are wonderful to do but when they cannot afford to live in our cities that is a problem, the foundation is tackling that in the Digital Divide by doing steam programs by underserved communities, we expect to have 500 students to enroll and we ended up with 5000 students enrolling into our program trying to close the Digital Divide and expose children, what children have been exposed to they have done well whether its basketball music, preaching, those things they have been exposed to they have become, they have not been exposed to wall street, theyve not been exposed to silicon valley, they have not been exposed to the possibilities that people like them can have a place at the table and the foundation is committed to working that out, jobs, homes, housing and closing the Digital Divide. You mentioned that you did not think this should be in the hands of the white house anymore, have you reached out to President Trump at all, i know you advised the last three president s and you had a very Good Relationship with them, do you have a relationship with President Trump. I do, ive never met him, let me be clear im not absolving him of his responsibly, theres a lot he could do and theres a lot he has said and done thats made it more difficult to move ahead and move forward in the areas of healing some of the disparities that exist in our community, im not exalting them at all, im just tearing around the fact that if we do not get the response that we would like to get from the white house and the level we would like to get, that still does not mean that we cannot move forward amongst ourselves. Theres a recent comment that was made by a rightwing evangelical, he tweeted that jesus was white and it caused a big stir and there were all these portraits of people drawing black jesus is and brown jesus is in white jesus is, its quite clear that jesus was not a blueeyed blonde and there have been a lot of columns about th that. Im sure youve heard this but what do you think about it, do you think about his color. I dont think about jesus in terms of color, i think its a juvenile statement to make one way or the other, as a christian the fact that he died for us and shed his blood for us, it was not about his skin it was about his blood and secondly the bible is very clear that his background in his ethnicity and his judaic background is quite clear according to scriptures and so the american argument where we see everything in black and white and argue back and forth about it means that we do it at the district of what the scriptures are very clear about. When you pray you dont think about a color, you just think about i dont think color matters, i dont think it matters if you have a red car who the mts, i dont think it matters if youre being operated on or the doctor, i think its a juvenile conversation but i understand it comes from a place where religion has been complicit in slavery, its been complicit in jim crow and complicit in White Supremacy and i think the pushback from the black community where they want to see a black jesus is really not about jesus, his defiance and gives the fact that god only cares about white people. I just want to ask you one last question about the coronavirus, how has it affected your church, the people in your congregation and you said its easier to wear a mask than a ventilator and yet the president who mocks people who wear masks and large group of many white evangelical christians who dont believe in Wearing Masks, what is your view on that . Let me tell you about an epic pastor regardless of my color, we are the people who bury the people that you report about, there is numbers to you but bodies to us, we are the ones to answer the phone when their families are screaming, this virus is real, it is serious and dangerous and i dont think that we have handled it appropriately and i dont think we take it seriously enough. I had a week or 13 days where i didnt have a day go by that somebody did not die, one day i had three people in the same day, when you deal with those families firsthand and those people who cannot hold the hands of their mothers or their husbands or their loved ones of some type of. With their family and disproportionally affected blocker people as well as white people, its an atrocity for us, its been very painful its an atrocity how we handle it and its been very painful and you consider how much attention we pay to 9 11 and rightfully so with 3000 people in 200,000 people dead, we tend to want to ignore it or not discuss it or not bring it to the forefront as if or not a national disaster, weve had more people to die in this country than any other progressive country in the wor world, that is reprehensible and embarrassing and its a disregard for human life, you cannot say that youre an advocate for life in the womb if you dont fight for life after the womb. Unfortunately that is all the time that we have, i wish we could go on b