John thats our show tonight. And now, john stossel. John are you for social justice . I want to say i am because if im not wouldnt that mean im for social injustice . That sounds terrible. Its why social justice is such a powerful slogan. It usually means, well, im not clear exactly what it means. It can mean so many things. Jonah goldberg explains that in this video for prager university. Ask ten lib calls to tell you liberals to tell you what they mean by social justice and youll get ten different answers. Thats because social justice means anything its champions want it to mean. Social justice is code for good things no one needs to argue for and no one dare be against. John except me. Excuse me, i want to be against it, because those sweet words, social justice, really mean the state gets to use force to take money from some people, give it to somebody else, and also it gets to boss everybody around even more. The selfdeclared champions of social justice believe the state must remedy and remedy all perceived wrongs. Anyone who disagrees is an enemy of what is good and right. John one of those enemies of the good and right is the president of the ayn rand institute. He seems to be an enemy of whats good, because he says its immoral for a government to take peoples money and give it to others. But podcast host Jesse Meyerson says thats exactly what a moral government ought to do. Go ahead jesse, you first. There is no such thing as a market free of government intervention. In order to have an economy, commerce, finance complex trade, Debt Resolution john some governments enforce fairness. A massive government, the largest Government Programs are contract enforcement, Property Rights and resolution of debt. Without those [laughter] john the Biggest Programs are entitlements. The Biggest Program are entitlements, the regulatory agencies that actually reject contracts, they tell us that we cannot contract. [laughter] unless we abide by some guidelines or some bunch of bureaucrats have determined. I cant take whatever drug i want, i have to get permission from the fda. I cant, i cant build whatever automobile i want, ask google you have to get permission john all right. Lets go back to this the moral thing and i think most people agree with jesse on this is that lifes unfair, government should step in and make it better. And you, the ayn rand, sounds horrible, selfish. Dont. I want government to leave us alone so that individuals can pursue their own happiness voluntarily dealing with other people through trade. Look. Look, even by libertarian standards in order for a market to be free, socalled, there has to be exit from the market right . Voluntary. You have to voluntarily enter the market and exit from the market. We simply in a system like capitalism where you do not have guaranteed access, you do not have an exit from the job market. You cannot exit the job market without separating yourself from the means of your own subsistence. If you wanted a truly free market where you could exit, you would guarantee the access to everyone. John you wouldnt have to work because youd have an somebody else would work for you, because somebody has to work in order for you to subside. Somebody has to produce. You have these landowning monopolists, these patentowning no mop the lists who go out and sue companies john all right, theyre bad, we agree. Rather than taking the sur plus of society john how does society get richer over time then . There is no social wealth. [laughter] wealth is produced by individuals. Wealth is a product of individual effort, its a product of the individual mind the most valuable asset form in the United States is real estate, and most of that value is the land. Nobody produced that land. Nobody should be but the value is not in the land, the value is what was done in the land or whether its building. Thats not true. And that individual you can separate people had to farm the land create something on the land. People had to build stuff, malls the thing that makes land valuable im sorry. Listen, listen, buddy im telling you. Im going to educate john one of the biggest social justice [inaudible] politicians say things like this spread those resources theres no greater challenge this country has than income inequality. I believe this is the defining challenge of our time. John and look jesses right about this. 1 of the people own 35 of the wealth many iran. Because they created it. They created you kidding me . The kochs, the trumps the kochs created that wealth. They inherited a fortune at birth. Theyre in the lucky sperm club. Now he gets it. People actually produce. People create, people make choices. The kochs inherited a lot of money and made a lot more money. The steve jobs, the bill gates created their wealth and all of your viewers are beneficiaries enormous beneficiaries, the vast majority of the 1 are people that have worked hard, have created something, have built something and deserve it. That is absolutely preposterous. There are people who live in my building who go out and clean apartments all day who work ten times as hard as most ceos who are dirt poor. Meanwhile, ceos sit by they own a capital stock, they sit by the pool waiting for the butler to come out with a tray john jesse, you told us everyone deserves a dignified life. Absolutely. John in which their material security is a guaranteed right. And that includes a College Education healthy food if people want a College Education john comfortable housing and health care. Free time and money to spend during it. Every Single Person that is not dignity. When people get without producing anything, when they get all these things, thats not dignity. John jesse calls himself, proudly, a communist. That is horrific for anybody to call themself a communist. John hasnt worked well around the world. What hasnt worked well . John communism. Weve talked about this before. Socialism works fine here in certain instance, you know . We have Social Security. John the Social Security is by far the best antipoverty measure this country has john address that. Where its much more equal that transfer payments are a really good way to insure dignity. John Social Security and scandinavia. You take it. Scandinavia is nowhere near the heaven that jesse portrays it, and its nowhere near as socialist as people portray it. They have less regulations than we do, it has school choice. It is far freer in terms of the economy. Yes, they have massive wealth transfer exactly what im arguing for. And that is holding them back. [laughter] that no. Bankruptcy in 1994 where they had to shrink those wealth transfers since then. And, look, it hurts Human Dignity the to use jesses words. Millions of children who live in poverty every night [inaudible conversations] its somebody elses expense. You do not leave that is what capitalists do. Capitalists employ people who do the work john all right, enough. That is, youre describing capitalists when you say that. John thank you gentlemen. Talking about social justice reminds me of a snarky movie about a college where the activists, the movie calls them causeheads, have lots of causes. Save the whales. Gays in the military now. Free nelson mandela. They freed him already. They find a worldthreatening issue and stick with it about a week. What happened to the ozone layer . That was last week. John now it is meat. Do you know how badly those animals are treated . Do you know how much Greenhouse Gas they produce . And one of the social Justice Movements biggest enemies these days is walmart. Not only does walmart sell meat, the chain doesnt pay enough. The activists says the workers must be given a raise to at least 15 an hour. When do we want it . No and if we dont get it [inaudible] shut it down. If we dont get it shut it down john shut down walmart if it doesnt pay more . But will that help walmarts workers or other workers . Michael strong travels the world looking at how poor people fare under different systems. And he says most americans are clueless about the benefits everyone gets even from Companies Like walmart. What do you mean . Walmart is one of the best things thats ever happened to the poor. Walmart has reduced prices for the poor by an estimated 2,000 plus per household, thats from jason furman who was obamas economic adviser. More than 2,000 to every family in america can. John this was his research before obama. Exactly. Intellectually honest economist. If youre poor and you can reduce your costs, your life is better. Capitalism, when allowed to do so, always reduces costs, increases quality and creates more diversity which is why we need to allow walmart and other companies to give more poor people more access to better goods and services for lower prices. John all right. They and we can buy stuff save money, buy it for less. But when theyre paying 9 an hour and they voluntarily raised it above minimum wage because its good pr for them, and it helps them keep good workers and its how the market should work but people say 9 thats good middle that guts good middle class jobs. People cant live on that. In fact a lot of walmart workers are getting government subsidies. Its not walmarts fault. Walmart is part of a globalization movement. Millions of jobs are moving around the world. It is going to be tough with or without walmart when we see more people going around the world to produce things. People in the u. S. Are going to have to come up and do something else. Thats why we need more innovation less regulation so we can have more innovation and more jobs. Its not walmarts fault these are global realities. France is creating pretend jobs. Europe is going to go down because theyre pretending to create value. We need to create real value, thats the only answer. John and like this communist who just spoke. Doesnt it weird you out that so many young people just dont get this . It is sad because the only way that were going to help the global poor is to release the forces of free enterprise. John when the market is free, poor people get all kinds of new things cheap cell phones, half the people in africa have these now. But where government regulates heavily this is education and housing and health care. Manufactured homes, 50 per square foot. New york, manhattan almost 2,000 per square foot. Anything and everything could become cheaper if you allow the market to do its work. If we care about poor people, we urgently need to allow entrepreneurs to create higher quality, lower cost products in every domain. Thats the only way were going to help seven billion people have a wonderful life, and its sad people like jesse dont understand that. John you tried to start an experiment on this in honduras where there would be a place with no rules i wouldnt say no rules, a good common law. Good classical, liberal common law. In the developing world what people dont realize is its the most highly regulated. My wife is from africa its the most highly regulated region on earth. Let entrepreneurs create prosperity. The free zones and special Economic Zones in china have helped hundreds of millions of john and they were going to give you this free zone in south america, and then the politicians said, well maybe not. Its still on. Its still going to happen. So were going to see, if all goes well, prosperity in honduras. Hong kong and singapore, some of the poorest regions on earth, 50 years ago two with of the wealthiest regions. John fifty years bingo. If every place on earth was as free as hong kong and singapore, there would be no more poverty on earth. John we know what works but the politicians and these young people wont do it. And i would say many of the professors. John many of the professors. Well have one on shortly. Thank you, michael. Next, some say american capitalism succeeded on the backs of slaves. But is that the truth . Get excited for the 1989 world tour with exclusive behind the scenes footage all of taylor swifts music videos interviews, and more. Xfinity is the destination for all things taylor swift. John americas worst social injustice was slavery. Today some people argue that americas success was a product of that slavery that capitalism thrived in america because whites stole labor from black people. We can say thievery was a critical element to the expansion of american empire and the establishment of the american way of life. John that michael eric dyson. Lots of people believe slavery gave american capitalists a head start because they didnt have to pay workers. So they say slavery made capitalism successful. But economist Don Boudreaux says the opposites true. What do you mean . Thats just a crazy notion. Slavery has been around for about 10,000 years, since the beginning of the agricultural revolution. If slavery were instrumental in starting capitalism, why did it take 10,000 years for it to start . Also if you look at the places in the world where capitalism first took off britain and holland they got rid of slavery early. Look at the americas. In the northern part of the United States, slavery was gotten rid of long before it was gotten rid of in the southern part, and the northern part was the capitalist part, the wealthier part john more prosperous in almost every way. For the rich and the middle classes in the north and in the south. John but theres a logic to it, if you could get free labor from some workers, then those capitalists who are making the money from that ought to do better. Well theyre not capitalists. The plantation owners did really well. They got rich but everybody else remained poor. Slavery is a system its an Economic System quite at odds with capitalism. Capitalism requires, you know innovation, it requires consumer sovereignty. Slavery is none of that. Slavery keeps everything static and thats what the south was prior to the u. S. Civil war, thats what the north was not which was why the north was booming and the south was not. John on capitalismhating msnbc though they do seem to like making money for themselves. Anyway on msnbc, reverend otis moss said dont blame christianity for slavery as some do, blame capitalism. Those who were the slave holders who claimed christianity but it was really capitalism in drag john capitalism in drag. Its thats nuts. Theres nothing more opposite of capitalism than slavery. Slavery is keeping people unfree. Capitalism is unleashing peoples freedom to spend money and work as they want. John whats this about . Theres lots of it. I look at a Huffington Post headline, how slavery led to modern capitalism. Daily beast, how slavery gave capitalism its start. The best i can figure, john is people want a lot of people dont like capitalism, so if you can tarnish it by claiming it somehow was connected with slavery, it makes it look bad. In history where slavery exists capitalism doesnt exist. Its no coincidence that great written, the home of the great britain, the home of the industrial revolution, was one of the first countries to get rid of slavery. Brazil on the other hand didnt get rid of slavery until 1888 and its still a lot poorer than certainly most people in the United States and western europe. John and america didnt really prosper until after the civil war when slavery was ended. Decades after slavery was ended, yes. John one of your points is slavery is not as efficient as people would think it would be. Thats right. Slavery is efficient for very, very mechanical tasks; growing tobacco and growing cotton. If youre a plantation owner you might do well by having slaves pick your cotton. If youre a factory owner, you dont want slaves in your factory. Its too easy for them to shirk in a thousand and one different ways that even the best overseer cannot monitor and correct for. John back to your earlier point, people hate capitalism. Yeah. John john they associate it with social injustice. Whats that about . I dont know. Capitalism is a system of voluntary exchanges. John people dont get it. They hate it. I know. And theyre wholly mistaken. Youre right they dont get it, and thats the problem. Thats what you do, you help them to try to get it. John im trying. Yeah. John thank you, Don Boudreaux. Coming up, hows that social justice thing working out in this country where they brag they were bringing social justice . Why then are these people waiting in such a long line . And what are these gunshots about . [gunfire] john a few countries voted for what they call social justice. Venezuela did, and hollywood applauded. Danny glover, oliver stone, sean penn and Harry Belafonte praised hugo chavez. Chavez has now died, but his picture is still on walls everywhere, and one of his flunk key 401 k ies now presides. Is some of the people who voted for it are mad they didnt get all the goodies they were supposed to get, and others are mad because since chavez took over, venezuelas economy has been in the tank. The news site the pan am posts latin america and its experiments with social justice. Its editor, whats going on . People living through a nightmare of socialism. Its been were seeing the outcomes now thats been building for more than ten years. There is a wave of corruption crime, inflation. The people are leaving in droves. So john why does that have to go with socialism . This was supposed to your everything. Right. They have ruined incentive to be productive. Theyve violated Property Rights, theyve confiscated property. So they have taken away the incentive for companies to be there. So if you cant keep the fruits of your labor what incentive is there to build a productive economy . John so its an oilrich country. They make almost 100 billion a year selling oil. Theyre still poor. You have a tsunami of corruption in and out of the country and you also have a whole array of failed social programs. John also spend money on these pictures of chavez all over. People have his picture tattooed on their bodies. Right. So this is one of the most bizarre elements john they get that free. Exactly. Theyre a statesponsored there are statesponsored events where you can get a free tattoo of chavezs signature, and they have painted his eyes having big brothers eyes looking at you. It is just creepy. John it creeps me out, but people there seem to like him. And leftists all over say this is going to work. The Guardian Newspaper leftist newspaper in britain no one