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not in labor force is what it stands for. my next guest says despite historically low unemployment numbers and 11 million jobs that still needs filling the u.s. actually has a labor force problem on par with the great depression. in a recent "washington post" piece titled "what's behind the flight from earth in a post-pandemic america" he writes, the rate was 3%. there's another 11% who are nilfs. dropouts who are neither working nor looking for work. add those two together and the real out of work number is 14%, up where it was in 1940, at the end of the depression. and before america entered world war ii? why did this happen? nicholas eperstat joins me now. he just published the plan mark book "men without work