you can -- well, you can blame the consumer. for getting a house they didn't have with no responsibility. you can blame wall street for pushing it. i really can't pick one. >> if you were ceo of america plc or wall street plc and you were doing your 10% rule, who would you have fired? who were the main culprits -- >> i would have cleaned out anybody in the mortgage business who put faulty mortgages together. i would have put in people that were putting together faulty paper. i would have cleaned out everyone of those people falsifying their applications as to their ability to pay. >> should some of these people have gone to jail? >> i'm not qualified to pick that, whether that's true or not. i don't know enough in the details of that. i honestly don't, piers, i tell you. >> when you talk about false pieing pie ing falsifying paperwork -- >> consumers do that all the time. we just had this thing in the -- this oil problem in the gulf.