>> i think a lot of times, like when the two went interest columbine, when the young man went in -- the killer went into an si hook, -- sandy hook it is a suicide mission, and the video taken i read about the two at columbine, or the murders at virginia tech, it is a death wish ask they're going in without any intent of coming out. >> both of to the schools cases, if memory serves me right, there were metal detectors and the like but if you come guns ablazing and loaded with that type of weaponry, very little that can be done. >> well, it really is frustrating from the standpoint that if -- the thing that research is showing right now is anything that you can deter a gunman until law enforcement agented get there, the better chance you have of less casualties. like i said we learn from