Transcripts For RT Worlds Apart 20240713

Positions have changed and i told you i mean we could have had an agreement or your call and why its happening now because positions have changed has the positions how the positions changed within syria or is it the status of foreign partners all for its plants or is a fair insides that have well. As you know the syrian. Conflict has 3 levels was the international theres a regional and of course there is a good message glocal. The positions have changed both of the regional and. In the sense at some point or countries did not see. Much meaning towards a Constitutional Committee i think that has changed i think they have come around to them and that has influenced the syrian parties now a better i know that when it comes to syria. Youre like quoting his own man a french political economist who used to say that to solve an intractable problem you need to change the context now apparently the context has been changed as you said but. There was also a big believer in coordinating diplomatic and military policy is among european nations particularly britain france and the United States and hes even credited for shortening the 2nd world war through his coordination efforts do you think the syrian war would have been shortened a more specifically do you think the coordination among western powers on the syrian prong did ultimately how to prolong or to shorten the syrian conflict as you pointed out when there was basically talking about europe and were talking you later all he was advising them merican president as well but in the middle east its its not just the region its beyond the region and beyond the region there are 2 camps in the region there were 2 camps so that really complicates things enormously so the context has changed in the sense that when it 1st started of course it was an expression of the grievances of the Syrian People became complicated by. I would say Regional International interventions. And they were designed to change things in syria its understandable that at the time it was the beginning of the arab spring and everybody thought that this was the type of history as things got more complicated i think people started to revise their positions and understood that the continuation of syrian conflict armed continuation is a no ones interests including the neighbors quite frankly who are being very diplomatic as understandable but let me put it in stark returns. Because i also. Invested in syria i covered this calling from the very beginning i saw its transition with my own eyes and i think it took a definite turn for the worst when president obama signed a secret the order authorizing the cia to work with the saudi intelligence and to arm the rebels with the specific purpose of deposing president assad now his successor did not carry out that policy have you seen any change in the dynamics or using when a storm in the context of the syrian the war with the change of leadership in washington. Well 1st let me say everybody has committed 60. Everyone and i think some are prepared to admit that they made mistakes because they are revising their policy and. Now i dont does that include the United States i think the United States in the sense initially and i think frankly the problem in syria how it started and who became exacerbated is probably because the United States and the Russian Federation both of them decided to deal with an arms length they allowed their regional allies to take care of sticks. And thats where things got complicated there were a number of opportunities like you said earlier there were a number of opportunities to resolve the conflict there were a number of opportunities. If they were seized and there were really serious attempts by moscow and washington to solve the problem and i was witness to a number of them and could have been possible and would have shortened the war and would have saved a lot of lives theres no dont now unlike other countries be it russia or turkey for example the United States was not actively involved in different nations of the Constitutional Committee and i think as a result some of its partners on the ground were specifically kurdish groups in this stance. Represent that there do you think it has any impact on the legitimacy of all of that word that the committee is now task for it well let me tell you having been involved in this exercise for quite some time the kurdish issue has always been there i mean nobody has tried to look at on the contrary the issue is. To get this process moving and if you read carefully the mandated terms of reference and they are published it alludes to the fact that things can change in terms of composition in terms of works and so on and i would interpret that as a door for the kurds to participate in one form or the other you cannot ignore the kurds but i think one thing has to be absolutely clear is that we are talking about maintaining the territorial integrity of syria yes at some point. They will be present and i think that should be present but of course they have to operate within the parameters set by 2255. 00 which would see absolute. Respect for the terror and the plans and it was for now. The committee will be tasked with drafting a new constitution and eventually im not sure no ability yet no because again i think this has to be very clear. The framework for the solution is resolution 2254. 00 and when it comes what it speaks about the constitution it speaks about constitutional reform and that is deliberate so it could be new we could be amended could be anything else and in the mandate it explicitly says there are 2 possibilities either amended or a new constitution we know that the government has made very clear the government of syria has moved very clear that they are talking about. Discussing the president. Whereas the opposition has. A new structure so this is an issue i think the committee itself will have to decide the composition of this committee it is supposed to allow for that because i think for the 1st time we have not only the representatives of the government and the opposition but also the socalled Civil Society which the United Nations was responsible for putting together now after 8 years of conflict i personally think there are no neutrals or as you know independence in syria how confident are you that the these groups representing the Civil Society is truly representing syrian Civil Society rather than each of the belligerent side well i have to tell you that when this idea came up i was one of the strong advocates to have an independent component because i think a good independent component would probably be responsible than anybody else of putting forward new ideas now you are right i mean everybody is has some sort of political affiliation that is why i took such a long time to agree on the 5th of independence i do not know many of them there has been many lists over the past year and a half i hope what was finally agreed to will be people of caliber of ideas and can make a contribution to who actually Bridge Builders between 2 opposing sides which is the government and the opposition who have to wait and see but are not really privy to all of them so are you going to tell you i heard you say one of the panels that the information of this committee would imply that all sides accept each other as an interlocutor or is it genuine legitimate interlocutor does it mean that you have full confidence in this Syrian Government allowing this process to run authentically without trying to influence it there. Wait. Deems necessary because obviously it is in the strongest position now than its ever been the last 8 years do you think that will impact its ability to run the constitutional process and to impose its own will well i mean this pretty much depends on the International Community and the regional powers how theyre going to be able to handle that now to deal with the coming obviously its understandable that the government would like to control look and push it in a certain direction theres no doubt about that on our interest and im sure the opposition would like to do the same but you are right the government is in the strongest position now and therefore feels like maybe it is in a position thats why maybe the agreement was reached only now that it can. Ensure that the results of this commission is something that they can live with but the u. N. Which represents International Community has a duty to implement resolution 2254 and it does have a number of elements and although the job of the u. N. Is to facilitate that has to facilitate it within that framework and how it exercises its role will be interesting to see and the government will have to respond to that because we are implementing a Security Council resolution Security Council has a role to play to oversight and there have been a number of ideas about how the International Community would shepherd this process. Bringing in. And what you refer to as a small group to be there to make sure that. The commission would actually be implementing what Security Council resolution spoke of as constitutional reform so it is going to be an interesting exercise like anything else its based on compromise and lets see how things will evolve to one of these well for the time being the best are we have to take a very very short break but well be back in just a few moments. So what weve got to do is identify the threats that we have its crazy confront ation let it be an arms race in his own spearing Dramatic Development only mostly im going to resist i dont see how that strategy will be successful very critical thought i am time to sit down and talk. Why a paradise with some ground turned into a round the experimentation field but agricultural chemicals we know that these chemicals have consequences they are major irritants theres no question otherwise why would that the Chemical Company workers themselves be geared up that suited up locals attempt to combat the on regulated experiments but often in day you have many of these people one foot into the biotech pharma and the other foot in the government regulatory bodies this kind of collusion is reprehensible while the battle goes on the chemicals continue to poison hawaii and its people so one has to ask the question whether there is a form of Environmental Research going on in hawaii whether these Companies Feel they can get away with this because the people have less political power. In this community there are people who believe that its ok to sell for x. Food on my table its really hard there are no jobs and you see that ive got kids that ask and as a parent. I can come up with lots of arguments theres a lot of high. Late in the game between the teams most of the conflict i would say overall is around money and most of their money is made. Close one on each others cosimo each other is Good Business the state of california alone makes 6000000000. 00 a year of prison complexes you get some 20 year life where. You dont care anymore nobody cares about you so you dont care about anything. Join me every 1st day on the alex im unsure and ill be speaking to get off of the world of politics sports business im show business ill see you then. Welcome back to worlds apart with. In the round is a former deputy special envoy for the u. N. Secretary general and Syrian Ambassador as the war in syria hopefully winding down there is another political and geopolitical confrontation brewing up and the region i mean between iran and the United States and its allies do you do you think these tensions bit in washington may have any impact on the syrian Peace Process are those 2 related as far as your concerned well everything in the middle east is interconnected as you know but ive seen some. News in the past few days or give me hope that what we had always felt. Is probably going to happen is that there is a desire by both washington and tehran to deescalate oh really i just well i mean looks like the french president was in spite of everything to move them closer to one another just seemed. Apparently it is true that there could have been between both to deescalate but it has not materialized but. I hope because he can play there will certainly have implications not only for the region but quite beyond seoul and im hoping that. It will be pursued by france and others to make sure that. The you know there is no confrontation between the United States well im sure nobody wants to see another war in the region but i slightly disagree with you is that there are signs of days collation quiet on the contrary weve seen a number of. Quite mysterious attacks still inexplicable attacks taking place in the region the latest one. Being a big attack on the Saudi Oil Facility oil for which everybody blames each other do you think do you take that as a just sort of shady political gaming or do you actually believe that somebody may be trying to nudge the region towards another can that a well often taishan. What im referring to is a development in the past few years after these attacks. I think i dont think its in the interest of iran or the United States trouble confrontation. Probably both are looking for a way out. But i think theyre going to look for a way out now because somebody pushing for a confrontation. Well. We know for example there are certain countries who. Have been pushing the United States for years to confront iraq but the United States never reached that point because they understood the implications so the latest you know news that our per. Actually. Both are looking at a way out now problem the problem is. You know you dont necessarily go to war in tantrum and sometimes unintentionally you sleep walk into a war and i think this trip. Now speaking about those provocations or contests that russia has recently suggested creating what it calls and Monitoring System to look into incidents like this reach. Involves some degree of plausible deniability or the speculation of false flag attacks what do you think of the say the and most importantly do you think it could be free of political and geopolitical manipulation. Well of course im not familiar with the details of the whole i think that even if the russians and the familiar with the well of course i mean if it were possible to have. But i think it would be a good idea the issue is. Who would manage it. In what context i mean is it something within a broader context because you know as you know russia has an initiative about a Regional Security system in the middle east i would imagine this would be part of it but the creation of a Regional Security system or architecture in the middle east or in the gulf specifically. Will take time. I think the 1st time was proposed by russia it was probably more than 10 years ago so. We can discuss that in more detail but the Monitoring System makes every sense the issue is how do you bring it about all but as a former u. N. Official documenting that is also an indication of how little trust russia or perhaps other countries in the best in the u. N. Ability to do that kind of investigative work because you know has a number of bodies to investigate Chemical Attacks and other sort of attacks. Russia skepticism about the use of those mechanisms is well known dont you think that perhaps its an indication that the u. N. Has not been doing its job if not properly with enough neutrality of that country like russia with call for the creation of a at the in the other mechanism to do that what well im. Not mistaken i think the secretary general has already dispatched a team. To saudi arabia verifying what has happened im not aware of the russian proposal. Is is designed for the un not to be involved and im not sure i mean i know russia has a right its not that about not involving the United Nations i think its more about not trusting the results of its investigation and that the syrian war unfortunately provides a number of examples when major countries had drastically different opinions on what has happened to. Spied all of them having security and intelligence sources on the ground well once again i mean. The best way to proceed is to have a regional understanding about this mechanism could be under the auspices of the u. N. Could be otherwise i think this is really for something russia house to i think explain a little bit more because i really dont know the details so im unable let me ask you a somewhat different but related question that you know that russia has often been critical of the previous u. N. Special envoy stuff and the mystery it suggested that perhaps sometimes he was still stonewalling the process or that he wasnt fully neutral. You worked with him closely you just said in this interview that you believe that the Constitutional Committee could have been created earlier is it least part of the freshest criticism steffan de mistura justified is it fair i wouldnt personalize it ive worked close to a friend in the story quite closely. His heart was in the right place and i think mr lavrov will say that quite clearly they had a very Good Relationship and they understood at the end of the day the special envoy whether its the mr or or anybody else working on other issues. Has to operate within the parameters set by the Security Council and its met and particular the 5 permanent members you cannot effectively discharge your mandate if you are unable to balance things between the 5 permanent members at least if not entire Security Council so i think personalizing it is a bit too much i think if you as minister lavrov directly you will have a lot of praise hassle i mean on a personal level just a lot of people but i think you also ignore as if he is right to create criticize them when theyre professional or whatever i mean i was in many meetings i mean probably all the meetings de mistura had with the minister for all of. I think they were always very. Frank and friendly you dont have to agree with everything. But most meetings between de mistura various secretaries of state again frank and friendly dont necessarily agree on everything. But i think he handled himself admirably given the context in which you operate and which was not. Now let me also give you an ability to criticize russia for a change because i heard you say once that russia has a somewhat similar advantage with the United Nations and has been trying to cultivate its capacity of talking or it was being able to talk with all the players at least in the middle east do you think russia has used this capacity to the best of its ability well i mean let me put it this way russia is certainly not the only player in the middle east where others saw. Whatever russia tries to do is subject to the actions of others now if you look at the various conflicts in the middle east i think. Has been equidistant from from all the parties. I think the only exception is probably on the arab israeli or palestinian israeli conflict because there are clear Security Council resolutions and General Assembly resolution so russias position there although it has excellent relations with the arabs and with the israelis probably russias relations with israel are the best right now but it operates within a certain frameworks up by the Security Council of General Assembly resolutions when it comes to syria it supports the government but it has relations with the opposition has a very Good Relationship with the kurds. In yemen it has relations with the antagonists and tries to talk to them and even within the context of the. Problems that youre having today between the between saudi arabia and. Egypt and qatar. Russia has taken a position that is balanced and tries to help both sides overcome the differences so clearly every country does what it is in its interest but it so happens its interesting for for it to have enough interim once it has to be equidistant and i think its it wasnt easy and i really have to. Praise russia for being able to handle that over the long term because you can do that in short periods but russia has been able to dont you think that this capacity if its for Development Also all kind of chip away from the u. N. All that legitimacy because you can is even make a case that for example be asked in the process and what russia turkey and iran have mate able to achieve so far should have been the u. N. Job it should have been the u. N. Its its i. Actually its mandates you negotiate those issues rather than. Individuals individual countries to do that and then serve as a sort of legitimizing force when much of their work is being done whereas the how would you split that mandate war and peace in the United Nations as an organization that was specifically tasked with those issues. The initiative of individual countries i would look at the most complementary i think the charter provides for others to operate even regional organizations there is no contradiction. If certain countries for example because of syria are able to get together and work out because there are other countries who have a presence on the ground and as a military dimension actually when as you know shies away from if theyre able to do something and they have been able to accomplish quite a lot into the Constitution Committee which is a by product of their efforts i think it helps the u. S. I mean i would not saying as as user pays the role for you when i would look at it on the contrary as complementing the role of the u. N. The u. N. Cannot do everything it needs as much help as they do anything though well when it comes to war and peace well whether if you look at the history of what im going to look at the syrian conflict was i mean because the syrian conflict because of the various layers of the u. N. And because of the 6 there is no agreement within the Security Council what do you expect the went to do i think what the u. N. Has been able to do and i think that is extremely important is that to keep syria on the. International radar with all the suffering and tragedy that is happening you know sometimes people just forget about it and say look this is a conflict that will not be resolved no i think if you one was capable of keeping it on the radar but also theres another aspect which is streaming important is the humanitarian assistance in spite of all what was happening the u. N. Without the you when i think the situation would have been a lot worse in terms of the humanitarian situation in syria both sides of the political divide so the u. N. Does play a role but its role is a function of how the Security Council operates and as you know there has been not much agreement and the Security Council well at least until now lets hope that its not only. Exactly well ambassador its been a great pleasure for me talking to you thank you very much for a great pleasure thank you very much for having me and courage to keep this conversation going in our social media pages and hope to see the same place same time here in the world that are. There. Paradise with around into a round the experimentation field the agricultural chemicals we know that these chemicals have consequences they are major irritant theres no question otherwise why would that the Chemical Company workers themselves be geared up that suited up locals attempt to combat the on regular. Did experiments but often in day you have many of these people one foot into the biotech pharma and the other foot in the government regulatory bodies this kind of collusion is reprehensible while the battle goes on the chemicals continue to poison hawaii and its people so one has to ask the question whether there is a form of Environmental Research going on in hawaii whether these Companies Feel they can get away with this because the people have less political power. To. Me. Theres a 2 right. Way. Us democrats demand protection for the whistleblower at the heart of the trump impeachment inquiry in stark contrast to the way other Key Informants have been treated. Also in the stories that shaped the week india marks 150 years since the birth of gandhi since seen as an icon of nonviolent resistance. And a fire at a Chemical Plant in northern france triggers Health Concerns across the region despite assurances from the