Tried to celebrate of the belfast good friday agreement from 1988 so perhaps some of these initiatives you seem to be trying to build a center of global and or politics between the s. T. O. P. Nose to Unionist Party to be a rival to the should unfeigned d u p jew or pally. Would you be more amenable now in the present circumstances than perhaps there were a few years ago i think perhaps and i judge that on the evidence of the surge for the Alliance Party the middle ground Party Last Year in the european and the local government elections where they did incredibly well what i was trying to say back and back in 2017 was that youve had 10 years and i of the deep ancient fane running our Coalition Government of storm and castle. You dont need any more evidence that they cant get on that they cant cooperate that they cannot deliver for you so lets have an alternative and the alternative has to be not one party but one Unionist Party and one nationalist party so that was ourselves and the s. T. O. P. And when i looked at Colm Eastwood when he took over the s. E. L. P. I heard him saying what i was saying which was we need to make Northern Ireland work and when i sat on and spoke to him it was the same measurements the quality of the Health Service the Education System the infrastructure and prosperity so i find a lot of Common Ground politically with calm and given the fact that we have this mandatory coalition that were in to par sharing is the only way to go forward that was a proposition to put to the people maybe it was 2 years too early which is one of the messages of the christian selection in terms of Northern Ireland and for that matter of the federally election in the republic is that the people wanted more attention to mange of nothing as would sales go on the bread and butter issues the Health Service nor now of the housing crisis in the republic what do you take from that if that was the message that the voters nor from so were delivering i would say from that that were getting which are about our quality politics we realise that the constitutional question is not the be all and end all i believe that what we should be doing is trying to make Northern Ireland work irrespective of whether that is to make us more attractive to the rest of night or kingdom to stay in the u. K. Or whether your ultimate destination. To get some sort of a United Ireland if if we fix the Health Service the Education System bring in the infrastructure which which will make our economy stronger that is more than a lifetimes political activity as far as im concerned so its not for me it may not even be for my children might be for my grandchildren to make the call on the constitutional question but lets work on all that in the meantime and what ive never understood about sinn fein to lead the charge for United Ireland is that theyve always described Northern Ireland as a failed state that well if were going to have a United Ireland the people of the republic after a vote for change. What is attractive about it saying to those people will you vote to adopt 1800000 really High Maintenance people half of whom dont want to be members of a United Ireland some of them might even get quite violent abroad. And who live in a failed state. What school attracted to vote i want them as part of my country its taken the republican 100 years to get comfortable in its own skin so why disrupt all out why turn all those tables over by adopting Northern Ireland under those circumstances from the Vantage Point of no moment the republicans a northern theocratic state a successful state no looks rather more attractive than when i was growing up you knew youd cross the border because the roads got worse and you were living in a state controlled by a church and these days the roads get better and youre going into a country that is much more progressive and you could argue than the Northern Ireland but i would add for our unease in a paradox irony number one the biggest obstacle to United Ireland as i grew up was the ira because their bones and their bullets represented the coercion unionism would never give and our only true youre going to zation probably doing most to promote a United Ireland today for the democratic Unionist Party their policies not only supporting bracks it but also their tone and their attitude or really bad for the long term future of the u. K. Irony 3 the biggest break on our show unity is probably the irish political establishment fianna for elephant a gale both know that nobody is ready and the 4th army is that after decades of unions looking over their shoulders thinking that irish nationalists with a enemy. Its not even Scottish National center for English Nationalism is the biggest threat to the future of the United Kingdom and the paradox is unionists who who analyze abraxas referendum know food well that the lesson for a border pool in our shooty is dont go to the polls until youve thought through the implications of change the nth degree. And yet those same people will say to you dont debate and public dont talk about it because the more you talk about it the more likely it is to happen. Thats fascinating stuff so where are we were where for these for i base that in the big paradox theres no going to be a border of some sort of Customs Border in the eye of the sea with the south leave you newsom in the medium term that leaves us feeling as as we often do friendless betrayed and totally on certain about our future nationalism is always a boat a process were on the road to something unionism is always looking for a full and final settlement whether it was partition in the 1920 s. Or the belfast good friday agreement in 1908 were always in search of something that says here is stability and here is certainty Going Forward and bracks it was never going to deliver that it was always going to be exactly the opposite so ive never understood why any unionist who thought it through would support a bracks a referendum because quest start a few weeks ago when you cosponsored an anti sectarianism report and you give the analogy about eunice being. Like a frog tell us tell us what you meant by that well its a story i read awhile ago about a particular type of frog and the characteristic of the frog is if you put it in a pan of cold water and really really slowly bring the water up to boiling point. The frog dies because it doesnt realize that the environment around it is changing in a way that represents an existential threat and my concern is that unionism could be frog the all certainties of go on the environment is changing the demographics are changing in Northern Ireland were not a minority and the demographics who traditionally support the s. T. O. P. And shin fein are on their way to becoming a majority youve got scotland looking for independence youve got this rise of English Nationalism. All these things are going against us and youve got the d p who in my analysis are doing nothing to try and promote the union i think theyre tactical but theyre not strategic think about the confidence and supply when when that chance result in the general election left them holding the balance of power they ask for a 1000000000 or a 1000000000 and a half points short term brilliant thats money into our economy into our Public Services but long term whats the damage with English Nationalists because they look at that and they say 26 years after your cease for us why are you a special case anymore why do you need money for your hospitals when we need money and that 1000000000 and a half you know thats acute hospitals thats probably is on the beat in england thats classroom assistants thats Boris Johnson language slip in the logic of a few are knowledgeable from the union or some of the thinking about it given the me jim tell most we should be cutting a deal no it isnt universal menorah now never going to be in a stronger position to say it taught at least debate terrapins with the republic this moment as opposed to waiting for another 20 years when unison is going to be a much smaller natural what if political change is coming weve gone way beyond the binary of the status quo of staying in the u. K. As is or that traditional sense of creating a 32 kind to unitary state there are all sorts of other possibilities as to wreck rulers joint authority there is no one country 2 systems not popular given that the hong kong model these days right through the reporting on this probably 6 or 7 options are not advocating for anything but making Northern Ireland work. But people need to realize that theres not a binary anymore in the same way that the population of the country isnt a binary were not all either protestants or catholics unison nationalists theres a big group called other very own poor dick term for them but it is the others who will decide our future constitution and what would you say to members of the Unionist Community what do you really imagine serve a single economic entity in ireland the violent or to members of the Nationals Community who might be concerned about the disappearance of the European Community or Union Overview of the belfast agreement can both communities simultaneously be fearful of the future than 1009 108. 00 agreement said that we self defy our identity we can be british we can be we can be both we can be whatever and theres no hierarchy anymore being british isnt more important or better than being a us. What a lot of nationalists but some unionists as well thing happened and that referendum was an English National scheme and over there and did exactly what the agreement said could never happen and denied them their sense of european us so theres an all still poor from from the last century john hewitt who refused to define himself in a binary term he said im an austrian but im also a rush british and european and he went on to say what was important he said if you deny any part of that you diminish who i am and thats what a lot of people felt after the press that referendum people from Northern Ireland who wanted to remain part of the e. U. And feel european they felt at the internet had them in the way the agreement said could never happen and they felt to manifest so were talking about people who if you went to them in your 1st question was would you like to see a night of that and some day they would say yes but thats an aspiration. If your 2nd question was will you join us to be an activist they will say no im too busy too busy earning good money having my children well educated just enjoying life to people that which flag flies for storm but after the 24th of june 26th the answer to the 2nd question is where do i sign up my next button the subject of party of steve brought along a quick no theres only one stipulation here this whiskey obviously the queen has to be scotch either side the stuff not for saw a lot of what was fair thing else oh thats so big challenge for you sir are acts thank you im going to know your friends nationalism unions thank you very much indeed heretofore beautiful yes black bush you look very well and. Might nesbitt represent a strong foot in the door modest assembly but the worst parliamentarian for the same can state and see as jim sherman joins us off the break to fight though a very different view of the future of unionism. The stock market and i can imagine trading in a 1000 again on the dow and that would be an appropriate level given the true underlying economic factors the bond market Interest Rate should be 45 percent in the 30 day Interest Rate ok that would mean bonds would be down 506070 percent but thats thats something thats return to normal valuation and thats what we need. Your government and our government and all the other major governments of the world know whats going to them when its going to. But they havent told you and they havent told me they havent announced. Imagine something as big as the earth. Is going to cause tidal waves earthquakes volcanoes erupt and its going to chill. So very for a while right. My great grandfathers. Nobody would care about the law or prison so youd have lawlessness should have. A terrible life between now and the. Welcome back i continue my conversation in the future unionism in Northern Ireland with jim shannon the member of parliament for strength. So Shannon Welcome back to the early silent you are very pleased to be here in belfast as well wow you come to us it. Used to be interviewing me in the green motel you obviously looked at the house of commons but lots of course is appropriate because the assembly is back and running and storm and yeah how important a development do you really are i think its crucial i think its critical i think the election before christmas told us just how critical it was we all got thats not the election and listened to or majorities and and my kids and force me off to all their colleagues and i think as an indication i knew a week into the election that we were we were the sort i was different i said that the likes and even the shellback of pain and the workers and comforters i says as i said the different likes and the people who are noida dissent may not work and theyre noisy but the Health Service theyre not about education not about rules so you as a west coast a member of parliament you find yourself campaigning just before christmas in the west most of the election people so you were not going to vote for your german because that assembly should be up and running i think some people decided they were going to vote for us but there were all those who told us they werent happy either and i knew they were giving us our vote this time round. And we thank them for that at the end the day they were saying look get there someday work and get the Health Minister pike get the Health Department back do it at the school a longer i think people were say and i had a sense because by correct rooms and one thing i was was clear and hard to come to the impasse that we hada Northern Ireland we reflected on our new move very quickly yeah one foresaw held by the normal sort of 3 who seem to believe that the neighboring rule in doing that and then got the sack for these payments. Personally my i had some fairly strong comments with. Smith the new south i also recognize. Hard work and when the effort put on he certainly had a measure you cite very very carefully the measure of the Political Parties the measure of the of the irish republican as well and their ministers and to show off i think he would been better in my opinion if he had a stayed to oversee the political process the next 2 years ago will be a someday like for 2 years so between now and the end i think its important that we had someone who the parties had did not always agreed with but probably they respect that. Personally i think of a better if he stayed but hes moved on the reasons for that are better known to the Prime Minister and probably to him. To be dominant cummings lose the im so nice pulling the strings here i think the new surgeon instead of still a capable guy very boy Boris Johnson well see how it goes but he needs to hold out working relationship with the parties i think can spend. I hope that they present circumstances see him working relationship on the symbol their standing with all of the agreement but where to be a little if were going to agree but its not entirely perfect its not a perfect for all so were not happy with everyone but its just better to get back to work its almost a its better to have a hold on a credible minister for education a cut a moment for health i mean i said earlier on theres been written between 8080000 people waiting for appointments for assessments for operation of a population of one point yet 1000000 8290000 people waiting for appointments and assessments and so on just to some work the fact that matter is that the Health Service could not have went on was still going to be it was its good to have a bigger share of places a comfortable but you know experience politically and ive observed many members of parliament from my own but westminster over the years and you probably more than any other single. Be noted for pursuing whats called the bread and butter theres a poet this was your health and education should be unusual more. Often because when assembly was up and running with assembly were dealing with that and the constitutional issue oversee a lot of the troubles the violence the model loomed large and question of you and im just interested in your experience is that the demand from the public cannot allow it to get the same would back up and running was a demand to address issues like the. I think anyone who was in a company until before christmas and at westminster e