Also in the house today a vote to override the president s veto of legislation repealing a rule waiving tariffs on solar parts from china. Later, members will begin debate on classified sentinal and related watch live coverage of the house when lawmakers return at noon eastern time here on cspan. We continue our live coverage on capitol hill. Take you to a house education subcommittee hearing on the Biden Administrations student loan policies. We join this hearing in progress. His performance. Is delivering the service on time in a timely manner to 17 million american families, is that part of your performance criteria . Well, im very confident in mr. Cordrays ability to manage this transition. What congress has assigned us is substantial overhaul of the form, the formula, terminology. It will be substantially simpler for families and schools, but its a major transition not only for us in retiring major data systems im afraid my time has expired. 17 million families will have a lot of anxiety until you meet your deadline and your commitment. I hope youll consider that, thank you. Sergeant at arms thank you, mrs. Mcbath. Sergeant at arms thank you, mrs. Mcbath. Mrs. Mcbath its disappointing to me to see my republican colleagues double down on the commitment to preventing working families from really getting the support that they deserve. Our republican colleagues have no problem using p. P. T. Loans and other types of dollars for their own business ventures. Sing a different tune when they see nurses and teachers struggling to pay even the interest on their principal loans. There are over 122,000 real people and my district in georgia that qualifies for some sofrt student debt relief, and more than 80,000 will apply for these funds were automatically approved and are counting on them to come through to assist them in handling the increased costs of their college education. One of the most obvious factors contributing to the rising costs and amount of debt held by our students is the trend of decreased Public Investment in our Higher Education system. Nowhere can we find a better example of this than in my home state of georgia. Where the average debt per borrower is the third highest in the nation at over 41,000. At the beginning of the pandemic the University System of georgia also known as u. S. G. , sustained a 10 cost cut of roughly 230 million that was never restored. The state recently went further and cut an additional 66 million from next years budget specifically dedicated to u. S. G. I have met with many Different University officials and they continue to express the concerns about what these cuts mean for their ability to retain and recruit staff, serve instate students, and avoid having to increase tuition. Which they have been very clear that they do not want to be forced to do. Sonny perdue, the former trump administrations secretary of agriculture and current chancellor of u. S. G. Was open about this decision and the negative impact it will have on families in georgia. I quote him, he says, this is an incredibly disappointing outcome. It will have a Significant Impact on institutions antiservices that students and families depend on, to advance their prosperity and help georgia succeed, end quote. U. S. G. s resent recent press release included a table showing the direct impact these cuts would have on state funds of our universities. I would like to also, chairman if i may enter this into the record. It shows almost a 12 million cut from the university of georgia. An 11 million cut for georgia tech. And over 8 million cut for the largest Public University in georgia, Georgia State university. And a 1. 6 million cut for georgia quinn net college Gwinnette College housed in my district. These continued cuts will negatively force schools to make up the revenue elsewhere or be forced to raise prices even further for students and families. My colleagues claim the American People are fiscally irresponsible, but those are not the georgians that i know and that i represent. The fact of the matter for most americans is that the only way to afford school is to take out a loan, which im sure many of my colleagues here in congress have actually had to do. We tell people every day that one of the best ways to get ahead is to get an education. We are now punishing them for trying to partake of the very thing we want them to be doing. Obtaining the skills that are necessary and vital to move their family and country forward. Mr. Kvaal, can you discuss the negative impact that decreased Public Investment and continued cuts to Higher Education budgets have on our students and universities . Secretary kvaal it is not uncommon. We have seen for decades now states cutting funding for public Higher Education, particularly during recessions. And not putting the money back. And that has been the single biggest factor in rising tuitions at public colleges and universities, with particularly large increases in borrowing during the great recession. Mrs. Mcbath i yield. Chair owens ms. Hopkins. Thank you to the witnesses for testifying today. According to the committee for responsible federal budget, the administrations most recent extension of the pause listed inflationary pressures the pause on student loan repayments, increased inflationary pressures by 15 to 20 basis points, which they estimate could translate into one or two additional rate hikes by the federal reserve. One of the things that the Biden Administration has recently said is that, quote, we are extending the payment because it would deeply be deeply unfair to ask borrowers to pay a debt they wouldnt have to pay were it not for baseless lawsuits. Republicans and economists have criticized this plan to write off debt at the expense of taxpayers in this biden plan. My question for mr. Cordray is is it fair to ask taxpayers who never chose college to pay for the Ivy League Degrees of others . Mr. Cordray the debt relief the administration put forward as the undersecretary has noted is aimed at lower and middle income borrowers. 90 of the relief would go to those who make less than 75,000 a year. Mr. Houchin mr. Cordray, its noted that the pause benefits high income borrowers and graduate students. A typical law skaout graduate will receive an estimated 65,000 in loan cancellation accounting for inflation and forgiven interest compared to 7,000 for someone who borrowed for Community College. Is it fair for borrowers of Community College to steve 7,000 forgiveness payment to receive 7,000 forgiveness payment another giveness versus a law scoot graduate who might received 65,000 under the biden plan. Just answer, is it fair or not . Mr. Cordray the payment if mrs. Houchin do you believe it to be fair or not . Mr. Cordray apparently the mr. Houchin reclaim my time. Ask it is it fair that 2 3 of the benefit would go to the top half of earners . Mr. Cordray i dont believe that thats consistent with what i have seen. Again the payment pause was put in place by the Prior Administration. Extended by them three times. Its been extended by the Biden Administration on the same terms five times. Whether its fair, ill leave that to others. Both administrations have deemed it to be a necessary measure during the pandemic. Mrs. Houchin overall the repayment pause has cost taxpayers 195 billion to date and 5 billion each month it has continued. The continual extension of the student loan payments, the actions of the Biden Administration alone have cost more than the federal government has spent on Higher Education over its entire prepandemic history, 744 billion from 1962 to 2019. Its estimated that the student loan bailout could end up costing taxpayers more than 1 trillion. I want to just switch gears a little bit to the incomedriven repayment plan. Mr. Cordray, there was a 2019 Government AccountabilityOffice Report which identified misrepresentation of income and family size indicators for potential fraud or error in the incomedriven repayment plan. Are you familiar with that report . Mr. Cordray that was before my time. I have general awareness of it. Mrs. Houchin the g. A. O. Found about 95,100 incomedriven repayment plans were held by borrowers who reported zero income but had enough for student monthly loan payments. Borrowers of these plans owed nearly 4 billion in outstanding direct loans. As the family size about 40,900 income driven repayment plans were approved based on large family sizes of nine or more, which are atip at this time atypical. This raised questions. They also found two income driven repayment plans approved in which a borrower reported family sizes of 93. Borrowers with atip ebgal family sizes of nine or more owed almost 2. 1 billion in outstanding direct loans. Given the potential for fraud, which has been known since 2019, the g. A. O. Recommended the department take certain steps to better verify income and family size. We know you are working on the implementation of the future act. Do you believe its important to enact verification procedures on these repayment plans since we know they are prone to fraud and error . Mr. Cordray you are referring to a report from 2019 before this administration. We think verification is important and we are practical we are going to implement it. During the pandemic it was difficult at times to do that. Coming out of the pandemic where we can implement verification and sampling we will do that because we think it protects students and families and taxpayers. I think you are concerned. Chair owens thank you. Ms. Leger fernandez. Mission Leger Fernandez ms. Leger fernandez thank you very much, chair. Thank you so much for testifying here today. I find it we are such an important moment this week where we are seeing two clashes of world view of what we need for america to thrive. The democrats view is we must invest in those things that give the biggest return. One of the greatest investments we can make is in our childrens education. Its in our students education. Whether that education be leading to a degree in nursing or an apprenticeship in welding. Installing solar fields. That idea of investing in our students is so key. On the other side we see an intent to disinvest, to cut funding for education so that they can protect tax cuts for the wealthy so they can benefit and prioritize the largest corporations. Remember that is what we are facing this week. A decision on who do you want to invest in . The corporations or students. I am so grateful that you are here talking about the importance of investing in our students. Another one of these things that just does not seem to make sense to me is that there is this idea of correlation and causation that somehow pell grants and federal assistance has led to increased in education. Mr. Kvaal, until the democrats increased the pell grant over the last two years, when was the last time the program saw a substantial increase . Secretary kvaal a decade or more. Ms. Leger fernandez several decades. During that decade did cost of education go up . Secretary kvaal it did. Ms. Leger fernandez we were not increasing the pell grant. One of the key ingredients for working families, for poor families, for those who have ambition but obstacles. We have not increased it at all. But yet Higher Education went up. Tell me why it is important to increase pell grants for the students who need it most . Secretary kvaal one of the most effective tools we have to help more students enroll in college. And complete college. They serve six Million Students a year. And Research Shows that they are a wise investment. That we get the money back in terms of tax revenue. So solely on the basis of terps have a positive return. Ms. Leger fernandez what people invest in and how does it benefit our economy. You just made that link. Thats based on research. Not just speculation. This hip hipcies hypothesis. I dont think there is any convincing evidence that this is real. Is that correct . Secretary kvaal i have not seen evidence that pell grant increased tuition. Ms. Leger fernandez its not enough to say it over and over again. When you look at the studies pell grants dont increase tuition, clearly. But they have such a benefit for our economy. I also want to talk about the way our educators need our help. We know there is a Teacher Shortage. We all know that teachers come out they go into college. They come out perhaps with more debt. Yet they are doing us and our families and communities such a service by really making less money to teach and educate our children. That should be the most important job in the world. We dont pay enough to our teachers. Right . But i actually believe that we should do more for our teachers. One way to do it is loan forgiveness for educators act that. Would help address Teacher Shortage education and sustain a more diverse work force by forgiving 100 of k12 and Early Childhood educators students stao upbt loans in exchange for five years of eligible service. Mr. Cordray, would you support this kind of legislation . Why is it important . Mr. Cordray i believed in Public Service education for decades. And in terms of the Public Service loan forgiveness program, our attempts to deliver a more effective program, which is what congress originally did by passing the statute in 2007 have been very important. If there is going to be further look at revamping Public Service loan forgiveness, we would be glad to work with you on that. I do think it has been very important for Public Servants across the country to see they can actually get the relief they were promised rather than be tangled up in red tape as was happening for years and years. Ms. Leger fernandez the student loan forgiveness we are talking about for teachers, as well as for the program that we discussed earlier, it is targeting those with incomes largely under 75,000. Once again we see we are targeted those with working class incomes whereas teachers and incomes. Not wealthy. Thank you so much. Thank you, mr. Chair. Chair owens i would like to recognize dr. Foxx. Ms. Foxx i thank our witnesses for being here. Im going to ask a series of yes and no questions. I really want you to say yes or no. I dont want to have to stop you. Mr. Kvaal, this committees requested multiple times beginning april 30, 2021 that the department of education provide all valuation reports conducted by f. I. Consulting showing the Student Loan Program was nearly half a trillion dollars in the red before this administration took office. Despite multiple commitments to provide this information, including by yourself, in sworn testimony in front of this committee, the Department Still refuses to comply with congress. I want to discuss the briefing the department provided the committee on december 17, 2021 to which the Department Staff said they had not seen the entirety of the report and were unable to locate it at that time. Million kvaal, yes or no, did the department have in its possession the final valuation report prepared by f. I. Consulting when Committee Staff were briefed . Yes or no . Secretary kvaal the best answer i can. We have provide add copy of the unredacted report. To congress. Ms. Foxx was the staff in possession of the report at that time . Secretary kvaal we provided ms. Foxx the answer is yes or no. Secretary kvaal im trying to give you the best answer i can. Ms. Foxx the answer should be yes. Because you had it. And the staff did not tell the truth. Mr. Kvaal do you take seriously the request of congress, yes or no . Mr. Kvaal i do. Ms. Foxx do you take into consideration the valuation reports before the department provides them to outside organizations. Yes or no. Secretary kvaal i believe the department has an obligation to cooperate with congress. Ms. Foxx yes or no. Secretary kvaal to provide the information it needs. Ms. Foxx im holding the final valuation report that we requested. Yes or no. Did the department provide this report to us . Secretary kvaal we provided an unredacted copy. I believe we did provide an unredacted copy of the report to you. Ms. Foxx are you sure . Secretary kvaal thats my ms. Foxx are you sure the department provided an un re unredacted report . Very serious. Secretary kvaal you may information i dont have. Thats my understanding. We have been cooperating fully with the g. A. O. As it studies this model. My understanding is we have provided the information. Ms. Foxx i think you might need to get better information from your staff. Did the report did department provide this report to the Student Legal Defense Network . Yes or no. Secretary kvaal i dont know the answer to that question. Ms. Foxx mr. Kvaal, when did you first receive the final valuation report im holding . A date, please. Secretary kvaal well, im not sure what you are holding. I think you are referring to events ms. Foxx that report i said was here. There f. I. Secretary kvaal im happy to try to provide whatever information it is that you need. Ms. Foxx there will be a follow up. Well expect a prompt response from you. Mr. Kvaal, the only conclusion i can call from your refusal to provide congress with this information is either you are incapable of understanding basic requests, or you simply dont give a damn that you are hiding the true cost of this administrations actions from the American People. Either way, its unacceptable behavior from the top Higher Education policymaker in this administration. Mr. Cordray and mr. Kvaal, you said a lot about yo