Aspect of the book you tell a story that has done a lot of attention a call from governor romney to president obama after the 2012 election that he said the president was offended from the racial undercurrent from his concession one of his aides said it was his own that the call took place that this story is not true and is very angry about it. How to those who were not in the room except which of you is right . Guest there are five people standing around the president when he spoke to governor romney hint they already said their recollection was already the same as mine to relate the facts that governor romney had said we really surprise them with the waiver able to get the vote down in places like cleveland and milwaukee i didnt get the sense he was trying to be ungracious but to give a compliment to the campaign but a parable through the lens of which they saw the election and that a boil down to more than what happened in that was his frustration i was just surprised at the reaction i applauded the loyalty of governor romney. But i think he blew it out of proportion in data have any reason to believe the president got off the phone to Say Something that didnt happen. Host talk about your role in deal on the white house. People dont Pay Attention to the detail they may not appreciate how big it is for president s to install the chief political adviser as a staffer. George h. W. Bush or clinton did not. It began with president bush you did hire karl rove and then president obama trusted you. But does that say about our government that the trend is occurring and will it continue . First of all, want to distinguish my role from carls role to some degree and dont extend the debt to understand exactly what carl groves role was but i would say it is more akin to what mike did for president reagan i was involved with the president s message from the beginning of the senate race in 2004. Hint worked with the messaging approach on speeches and policy rollout and communications and strategy. I dont think ed is that unusual and i dont think that began with karl rove for me. I think it goes back some time but it says the president s want someone around who understands their message and understands them to help represent the point of view to others in the white house so there is some message consistency that reflects the values the points the president wants to make. Host the president has had unusual ambivalent relationship with the politics and youre right about that. Were you there to remind him you dont fit to govern the you do have a conflict you do need to listen to people like you verses is ideological instincts . Guest but i think everybody strength is their weakness. His strength is that he believes there are more important things than winning elections once you are elected to the things you think are important to enhance the country, so we had a conflict often about the need to have the techniques and the conformities of the campaign in his presentation. A good example is the discipline of how you answer questions. To get your message out front to keep the answers short and make sure that you punch through what you want to punch through. He did interviews bin town of beatings he would see those as of the discussion and would want to answer a thoroughly then he would get to the. 7 minutes later and that is the frustration to me. Host in my the book is subtitled my 40 years in politics. One of the themes is the ethical responsibilities of a campaign of a competitor who said we use the tools of our trade and then he is not suited to it from obloquy of which. What responsibilities do you think they have . What responsibilities to the general public . First of all, this subtitle i wanted what was too long was how my idealism survived 40 years of politics. But having read the book my interest goes back to when i was five years old in jfk came to my community and fired my imagination i didnt understand what he said but i knew was important and it seemed important to me. So i approached politics from that place but when youre a Campaign Consultant youre hired to get someone elected sawyer tried to choose carefully the people they work for. But i confess i did not always choose right but once you do the race your job is to get the person elected. You operate within ethical and moral parameters. Or you should. Ive left campaigns i was disillusioned with the candidate. So i quit. But there are the ambiguous situation when someone is less than you hope to but not so egregious that you will walk away. I found myself persuading myself that they were better than the alternative and that is a lie would motivate myself to go forward. What turned out not to be true . , remember Michael White the longest serving mayor in history bayou deliver a negative verdict at the end of that. I know his long tenure did not end prominent but here you first right about hope and change in division and unity with you Obama Campaign. Idealistic as it was the problems proved stubborn in the was tarnished by corruption in charges. The city was heading into trouble before Michael White but much deeper. When you look back and that he is responsible but he knows his career to you . First of all i would put the emphasis on the word entirely. But a lot of the iconic structures that brought back downtown cleveland or revived it like us stadium with a rockandroll museum could make them happen. He may have overstayed his time and there were problems with associates but i would not suggest either its demise was his responsibility or he did not do with the thing for cleveland. I realistic this is all good or all bad or all accomplished. That is not the way it is. I think he was idealistic to get important things done in the important way. I was happy and i did the race i might have advised him to leave earlier than he did but he did important things for cleveland. So weidenfeld lens. Year rose to be one of the most important of the democratic republicans in the state of illinois working in many campaigns for comedy successfully. But now it is in a rough economic situation. Chicago has the worst Credit Rating rather than detroit and suffered heavily one of the top three states of unemployment for the Great Recession and also locked into that pension situation. A lot of those are tied together. The Pension System and has been filtered down but the city is trying to fight its way out but the state problems are associated with the citys finances that have contributed to their problems. No doubt they have legacy problems and i can say the results of both republican and democrat administrations making an affordable deals honestly with Public Employees and the results come away go through to governors that went to prison and some of irresponsibility a especially on the governor john. Host that one of your candidates but it was at the beginning. But i had concerns what type of governor hugh boy be. He asked if i would work for him is a wide you want to be governor . He said you can help you figure that out i said if i have to help you you should not run. But this was built by lots of people and they were clients of yours. Many of them were not. Host but as you look back at the political choices in the state of illinois that you did so much to shape comedy look back and say that was good work . Guest which of my clients do you think were responsible . I am curious about that. The time i was involved in illinois politics the state legislative leaders were not my clients. I work for the mayors of chicago but Harold Washington served briefly in the 80s to break down racial barriers in then to remake the face of the city and was considered a model mayor. At the end there were fiscal issues several for committed to do things that he did and left some fiscal problems for mayor emanuel but i am proud for i am happy to respond if you have a particular politician who you think was responsible for the states problems. But i am curious that would be. Host i dont think it is one person but the handiwork of many and as one looks back as a career in illinois politics because the state is in such a dire state. Let me ask you. Guest the other iconic candidate was paul simon that they think was the essence of integrity. I am proud of him. I knew the illinois Political Landscape very ball and i chose my candidates carefully. Host day you think its fair to at stereotypes that politics in illinois are nautical . Does that capture a genuine problem . I think there has been corruption through chicago politics for some time. I think that institutionalized corruption is not the problem that it was said yes we have problems with corruption in one of the reasons why i gravitated to barack obama is he was on the reform side of the fight so it was the First Campaign finance reform bill passed in illinois in a quarter of the century and paul simon recalled that in the previous one that made it illegal to take Campaign Contributions for your personal use up until barack obama you could use it dash alone personal income and he ended that practice. Illinois in chicago has had its problems but those are the people i tried to gravitate towards. Host you worked for ms. Brown issue was accused of fraud and rostenkowski went to prison . I dunno about brown other than in the campaign was accused but there was never anything like that. I did work for dan rostenkowski. He was interesting person with the most powerful people in washington i dont know anyone that so relish the process to make lot id work across party lines. He went back to the advent of medicare and was close to people in both parties and clues including the first president bush and loved it. On the other hand he was prosecuted for what i consider little stuff like cashing in stamps for cash which may have been a government issue was a practice in the 50s but those norms had changed. If it is true there is something about chicago then what is it . A great trees rotation hub or money that flows through the did not belong to local people that they could siphon off without feeling like you took from the constituents . Is that the ethnic politics . Guest i dont know the sociology that led to some of the corruption is endemic to illinois. And i am not willing to say that there and other localities that have not experienced some of the same but i do think things are much different now. We dont have a fast patronage machine. I have not heard any information about from the manual not protecting the interests of the city. This is the decision of the past but it would be a disservice to the city to characterize chicagos today there are pockets of corruption but i dont think that defines the city are certainly not the one that i know today. With this book there are scenes that runs through the campaign. Like a change of hope before hope and change of middleclass economics economics, partly dealing with issues of the overtime but also your approach with the work you did with president obama, how much of that campaign was waiting for him or was done to you . Provide the real question is how is it that we came together . I have no barack obama first 25 years in reintroduced in 1982 in chicago. She had met him and said this is the impressive young man. But why him . She said i think he will be the first africanamerican president in this is when he just returned from moscow. She knows how to spot a winner well in advance. I would take her to the track. But we shared sensibilities. President of the harvard law review critic been there all going after him is and the trident of Voter Registration in driving and it was clear he wanted to make a difference for the right reasons. With politics as a business you can see that it is a calling. And in 2002 when i became disillusioned because i saw a book with a pitch was going to be elected and was becoming very disillusioned with where i wanted to continue if he had just lost a congressional race if he had one more campaign left in he would run for the senate to but we shared a lot of sensibilities about politics and issues about the approach to politics. I think it is a little of both the letter really Productive Partnership to help renovate the message. When you build a Campaign Message if it is going to be a successful test to be authentic. Barack obama from the time he went to law school cared a rock called the economy worked and didnt work for large numbers of people per gulf and he believed politics listen noble calling as someone could summon those warsaw a change as something to embrace rather than something to fear. He was a natural exponent of the message it reflected and though he was. By gravitated to those types of candidates my tagline for paul simon in the 1988 isnt it time to believe again . Because i do believe hence the title of the book come of the beaver and Public Service is a way to grab the wheel of history is on the obamacare share that view. It was the happy partnership between people who share sensibility. Host to much of your career domestic politics has been a middleclass frustrated with increasing difficulty to get ahead struggling with memories that things were different after world war ii with middleclass people if you stated your saving the position you were better off he didnt have to be anybody special. Guest and wages rose with the gdp. Host now they dont. That is above the din levied of your team the. John injudicious the democratic leading rider is book was published in the early part of the decade but he suggested he may have oversold his argument based on an disillusionment with the experience of the past six years. This is not a homework assignment but how low do you react . Guest i think this issue of depression of wages , increasing gulf with wages in the struggles of the middleclass and those who are trying to become though class is forcing politics for decades it has created disenchantment whoever the incumbent party is because it is of function of forces larger than policy that requires some policy answers but it is the function of changes in our economy is advancing technology and globalization and receive the same issues in other advanced economies. It is a persistent theme and continues to be a challenge. Each succeeding party has the brunt of disenchantment about it. And readjust came through massive economic crisis that was in full fury when Obama Took Office that would exacerbate the problem to depress wages even further to make the problem of disparity even greater. But i think if you ask who fights for the middleclass who makes it their focus of that was the president or republican operation opposition you would get a larger jury is the president why he won a substantial reelection in 2012. Governor romney got some points for Economic Literacy in proficiency but fighting for the middleclass he lost an overwhelmingly. I think it is the misplaced fears that the Republican Party will repair the benefit of that unless they come up with a compelling insert. What i find interesting well generally they are just missive of arguments of the middleclass and inequality in economic mobility in the past, all candidates are now speaking to it which suggests to me what is an enduring problem is. Host i am looking here there is the charge, the steady from brookings in the early part of 2014. He was a leading Health Care Economist on economic distribution. When you look at other things in the administration has done, the president s recent initiatives calling for Free Community college while taxing the savings vehicles that the middleclass families used to pay for fouryear colleges and his big speech in kansas probably the most important economic speech of his presidency was he announced a strategy up Public Sector projects that will pay higher wages to government workers or Government Contractors and will trickle out to the rest of society. You look at this and say is this the middleclass strategy or a strategy for the beneficiaries and providers of Public Services at the expense of the rest of society and is that the cause of the recent political difficulties that the Democratic Party has . Guest its a long question. Its a little off topic from my book but im happy to address it. I havent seen the study that you are referring to and i assumed that it applies to the distribution of subsidies. Guest and the taxes and the internal subsidies within the insurance market. I know you are at a disadvantage and i would have given it to you before the interview. But then maybe you dispute their conclusions but. Guest i cant dispute their conclusions because i havent seen the report. I came on here to discuss my book and not their report but since i havent seen it let me just comment on what i know which is that the ability of people generally under their insurance plans because the Affordable Care act has certain guarantees for people under their insurance plans do not have annual or do not have lifetime caps is vitally important to people who get seriously ill. I know something about this because just getting back to my book for just a second i dealt with a Health Care System and i have a child with Significant Health care concerns. That is a tremendous sense of relief. I also dealt with the notion that i couldnt get another insurance policy because my child had a preexisting condition. That is no longer a concern. That applies to people up and down the line. The security of knowing you can get insurance at an affordable rate if you lose your job or if your employer your insurance is a security that is important to everyone. So, you know i cant david comment on the economics that are imputed in that report because i havent read it but im very certain that the security that the Affordable Care act affords not just the bottom 20 but the people who have insurance is important now and will be important in the future. Host this goes to the books great frame same because you are a believer as you say in your somatic thinker. You come up with these broad themes that are tremendously powerful to sway national elections. How do yo