Transcripts For CSPAN2 After Words 20150302 : vimarsana.com

Editorinchief of the dalia color. Host Allan Ryskind author of blacklist screenwriters agents of stalin allies of hitler. That kind of sums it up. Thanks for coming on. Its certainly jarring. Agents of stalin allies of hitler. But its true. When i talk about it each and every one of them but im talking about are members of the communist party in the United States that you have to be loyal to the soviet union. So when hitler decided to make his alliance in the soviet union not only was it to be pro hitler but the members in the United States in hollywood as well and they are going to be making a movie picture of it by the way. He was one of the greatest apologists in this time. Have which i go into in some detail. Host in and the forgotten chapter i think guest the fourth american writers which were held i guess it was in new york that they had these conferences and i go into detail and show how they were on the side of adolf hitler. What they did was be a demonize and it was a pariah country so far as the hollywood left was concerned in the wake of the fourth week of the fourth American Writers Congress and all these people on england saying that england is the enemy, not hitler. Host so this is after the pact of 1939 so by that point it is clear its already happened. Hes already shown aggression toward his neighbors and these are people who are reading the newspaper every day and know that if they are taking hitler. Guest many guest many people were jewish and the point is that they were willing to do it and when they made the deal with stalin, first of all they would get the eastern half in the Baltic States you could have all of that. That is a fairly good deal so far as many of the people were concerned but the point is what it is unleashed world war ii. Everyone understands that in 1939 that was one of the factors eight days later hitler and dana stalin was going to support him. Thats why he made that deal with stalin. He invades poland and takes the western half and then england and france said over and over again they are going to declare a war if he invaded because theyve taken over austria and the rest of czechoslovakia. He was the Prime Minister at the time and said if you go into poland now that is exactly what happens. And the next year its western europe and they congratulate them and its why all this is going on and figure taking over europe. What are the allies saying . Guest they are undecided and if you read what they are doing i imagine the league of the american writers where they have all sorts of people who are from hollywood and they are all taking seats and it became what i call the super isolationist plaintiff point out the unc cant do anything to go after hitler into power to bring fascism to the United States. You have to remember this was all prior. Host what happened to the league after . Guest it changed its name. It existed to some extent but it was no longer. All of the mobilization committees and in the league of american writers and all these groups now have the super isolationist plaintiff view. He is not the problem. As soon as they were doublecrossed. The invasion takes place and its a total shock. How long before stalins allies picket and become pro war. They have the whole thing fully against the invasion of the United States helping out england and even though it is a life and death struggle june 8 i think it was 1941 when the league of american writers folded the tent after three days of bashing england. And then two weeks later Something Like that hamlet says forget about what he just said that england, they actually get support. We dont worry about it. Its no longer the imperialist country that we said it was. This is the way to fight hitler. Even though they had invaded at this point and went against the soviet union because he had basically lost the air force and was unable to do so so therefore she said im going to invade russia instead. And at that point he was out of danger but these people say we have to fight. Give us your aid. Host so these are people taking about Foreign Policy from the foreign cover. Guest to be a member of the party, and this is what people dont understand and for the radio talk shows ive been on, they dont understand. They think it is a communist party. What is the difference. But the point is to be a member of the communist party you have to have your allegiance to the government. We go into this about how they came to the United States and actually talked to the people. Hollywood ten were on the side which turned out to be eissler and he escaped and ended up in east germany. Host there were many on the american left who had the affinity of the the depths of depression in 1933. But this is much later than that. This is after the trials for example. Americans understood stalin was a dictator, didnt they . Guest it hurts the communists. The head of the party in hollywood he said that the worst mistake the communists made was the line with hitler. He said they lost a lot of credibility at that point. If they hadnt aligned themselves with hitler it would have been much better. They would have still felt they needed are pretty good after all. But i agree. He was a famous journalist and a key worked with the united press over there in the soviet union. He came back and wrote a book that outlines all of the various crimes. So the point is about what do people know about it certainly the alliance that was credible by the way because he had been persevered and what heres a good journalist and when hes all he said all these things people have to listen. I think that he was the one who was important in helping change the american opinion. But so far they still like the soviet idea and the socioeconomic idea. There was no question. But in terms of hollywood and improved people, no question about that but because of the pack no question about it. But let me go through something else. First of all as i said theres a movie coming out the editor of the publication of the Screenwriters Guild. Screen writers guild. Host and a very talented guy. Guest no question about it. But he was the editor of the major publication. By 1944 was a prominent screenwriter. All of the information is coming out in suggesting somehow the communist party really wasnt a threat in hollywood but the people were innocent. I am saying my dad joined the Screen Writers Guild and started out as a leftwing. Of course in the latter part of his life he was all conservative but when he was in new york he was part of the leftwing. But my dad also did a number of plays at the time and he won a Pulitzer Prize and then my dad did a couple of musicals and came out to hollywood when he cannot to hollywood he was a that was permanent. He was all in favor of the Screen Writers Guild and was basically a product of the left. There is no question about that but he liked the idea that it was a good idea. But the point is he went in and he found he had some socialist friends but he goes into the Screen Writers Guild and he sees that they are a minority and he talks about that. He didnt like the way they operate at all, they were in lockstep and they would try to intimidate the noncommunist members of the board of the governing board and then they would use all of these delay tactics when they thought that the order was basically to force them to go home and then there would be a resolution or Something Like that and they were also on the side of running for office and they were defending the criminal enterprise and the soviet union. So he didnt like that at all. In hollywood its actually controlled. Its dominated by the communists and he was doing the screenwriting publication. I had a chapter in my book about the screenwriter and all of that and he was praising them and all of that and they used the vehicle to damage the reputations of people and that kind of thing and then you could hear so and so talk about the soviet man and have the head of the counterparty in hollywood and he would tell you about that kind of thing. Then he is also the managing editor and my dad would come home and they wouldnt speak to each other at all. My dad had some sort of funny comment when he actually testified in 1947. He said that this will not help the relations. And it didnt help. Ireland of him talking to me about it and that sort of thing. I saw gordon and all of that but my dad found out how and why he was and wasnt using so i just thought that was an amusing anecdote to host so he was called back to testify. Guest what happened was it was the first Major Committee meeting and the first hearing on communism in hollywood and people think of as joe mccarthy and the committee. He had nothing to do with it, he didnt begin until 1950 and i hate to say it but even bill oreilly gets it wrong. They are managed to misconstrue whats happening all the time and of course this has nothing to do with joe mccarthy but the point is the point he viewed as an anticommunist bully and people say joe mccarthy had it so therefore they just say it was a witchhunt. But basically what happened in 47 is that the House Committee basically 19 people from hollywood only 11 testified and they became famously known as the hollywood ten. A lot of people like that for the top guys. We asked them a question very politely you have to remember this is during the cold war. And we know what stalinist like. Theyve taken over people the soviet union was the enemy and basically stalin had declared that we were the enemy and the point is they were members of the conspiracy thats loyal to the soviet union and that country wishes to destroy the United States argue a member of that particular group and they didnt ask it in that way they said are you a member of the communist party. It is a question about the membership. You have to be loyal. They have a construction in the communist party which if you deviate from it is out of the party. It was controlled by the basically controlled by the communist party in new york and he would take over messages. I didnt originate. It wasnt my host but this came to light after 91 the collapse of the soviet union. Guest much of this came before all that and thats what people dont understand and people on the House Committee and the Senate Committee all had these wonderful hearings which they demonstrate. But anyway, we are back to the fact that instead of just even politely saying we are at war we are not or we dont think that his constitutional you have no right to ask us they heard all kinds of the words i guess you could say in their rhetoric against the people that ask the question and host they went right back at the members of congress. Guest yes. He was the young chief investigator. They answered the question and the point is that what happened even though hollywood paints a totally different picture removing people arbitrarily they wouldnt answer the question finally. Thats actually wasnt from the superiors clicks guest they had communist lawyers and all that and in his memoir he says they chose this idea but then they wouldnt answer the question. He said thats what happened. But at the time the point is they acted in such a provocative way and people heard them on the radio and the news and all that and the fact is the studio who hadnt wanted the hearings in the first place my dad actually was was presented before he went and said we dont want you going there. And they acted in such a provocative manner that in fact all of the rest of us were asking in a very calm and judicious manner and then the americans for democratic action approved of liberalism at the time but you couldnt belong. They actually advertised. They were still on his side. And when they acted provocatively, the producers said this is terrible for us. If you were part of the conspiracy you cant work in hollywood and thats how the blacklist began. Thats what it was. Host who made the decision, the studio is clicks guest thats what they came out with him all of them have they didnt want anything that they said look we have to do this because otherwise host the socalled hollywood ten who refused to cooperate, they went to jail . Guest they went to jail for contempt of congress because they used the First Amendment. They talked about the First Amendment. Host how long did they go . Guest 11 months, ten months but the point is they keep talking about the First Amendment but the fact is you can somehow refused to answer whether you are a member of the party or the plan or anything else and you cant say i wont answer the question because im pleading the First Amendment. There is always a check. The fifth amendment is different. Its a result of this particular hearing and because they went to jail for contempt of congress, the courts or the lawyers said how about the fifth amendment. Can we use the fifth amendment and then we dont have to justify clicks yes you can do that is on the selfincrimination i refuse to answer. Thats like testifying against yourself but you cant use the First Amendment. And that is of course what happened. The major hearings that was going to cause all sorts. You had Humphrey Bogart and celebrities and he came to washington and they were wanting to get rid of the House Committee and also wanted to support all the people that were being questioned from the hostile witnesses that were being questioned so that became a big brouhaha. He somehow had a soft spot i dont know why but he did and nevertheless he had created for committee for the First Amendment and they were cosponsors of the celebrities that came here. But as a result of those hollywood hearings in the House Committee, the communists lost out. Imagine before in terms of the studio unions and then they were churning out the films talking about how wonderful the Agricultural Program was and the plaintiffs its just unbelievable but anyway after those hearings because of the blacklist people of hollywood and the Screenwriters Guild they had an election and of the unions he was a major union leader and they were on their way out after the hearings and then the plaintiffs people dont realize this but in the book it reminds me of the good guys and they did the right thing. Host its kind of hard to debate that he was a bad. But thats what those movies did the fact is they went beyond that. He made sure he put them in the propaganda into the character. Host so your father was a favorable witness. You have Robert Taylor host the hollywood ten famously blacklisted for the time someone moved to mexico a lot of them are of hollywood movies after a decade. Your father by contrast ever worked for hollywood again did he . Guest its a complicated story about idb leave because hes done about 50 pounds 50 films but the truth is his career was hurt for a while but i think he could have gotten back in. The fact is that in my understanding of things first of all, he had a health problem. He had a turner will terrible ulcer. He didnt have the energy to do that. He talks about even in his book. Host i shot an elephant in my pajamas, that is a great tale. Guest but anyway where am i. , we were talking about the Union Leaders and others he told me that i cant remember the producer but he could have written a bob hope movie and my dad said he just wasnt up to it. He could have done it but he wasnt up to it. A lot of people like the others that were under pressure they were threatened and all that but anyway, i guess im a a reporter more than anything else and i cant Say Something that i think is host so it is so striking that johnny got his gun clearly they were working on behalf of Joseph Stalin and then by extension adolf hitler would drive them to do Something Like that . Guest they really did believe in comics. They did the philadelphia story with Katharine Hepburn but he became a revolutionary socialist and he headed the league of the writers and he writes a memoir about it and he was always a revolutionary socialist and he says that the communists controlled he said i was the head of it but they were in control. He acknowledges that the also i believe in the idea that there would have to be a revolution in the United States where they would take away. That is what has to happen. He agrees with it. They agreed in. The whole point was to strip the revolution in the United States. Host you dont mean metaphorical. Guest no i mean in other words they say it and the point is they talk about it. You have congratulatory formed and you have these telegrams coming from the soviet union and everywhere else and all they do is talk about the soviet violence and the revolution. They say we believe in the revolution. Its all proven. And somewhere this is the International Publisher and thats the communist Publishing House and it has the proceedings of what they say so the point is im not making it up but you can go to this American Writers Congress and anybody who wants to can actually look at this and see that this is what they were proposing. They thought that it was about the common mistake you cant belong to the league is basically what they said when they formed the league of american writers they said everyone has to be leave that the revolution is inevitable and they say that in the call for the First American writers and got he will form a league of american writers which will be formally associated with the International Units of revolutionary writers which is in moscow. Host the irony is that the freedom of expression was completely banned in the soviet union so why would the writers whose livelihood depends on freedom of expression guest nobody understands that because the writer always views this idea of the freedom of expression because thats how they advance the minority. Nobody needs in the revolution and all the rest of the only way they can advance the goal is to make sure that in the United States and they always do the freedom of expression and take control and once they take control they banned freedom of expression and its very clear that is what they were going to do. In fact its sort of interesting into position in hollywood they are on sort of the opposite side of me that they did a very good book. They did an excellent book and i give them credit in terms of information because they did an excellent book even though it is still on the left. They said is it fair to call for writers in hollywood, is it fair to call them stalinists if they dont even mention words i thought they would say communist or Something Like that. Then they talk about all the writers and they say yes it is. They defend everything stalin ever dared including his crimes. So its not just me. So somehow it isnt highlighted the way that my book is that the point is even somebody that is favorable acknowledges the fact and the reason i still get back to the point philosophically they believed in it. Host so it is a religious faith. Guest here he is supporting did i mention this, supporting north korea the granddaddy and the point is that kim il sung of north korea invaded south korea and what he says in this manuscript which never made it to the screen but the point that i got from the Wisconsin Historical society is the unpublished manuscript but nonetheless dedicated and he says north korea was fighting for its freedom and we were fighting for our freedom or independence. Host when it invaded. Guest a sickly it was there giving and somehow the reason that we were in the war at all first of all he blames us for the death of the korean children. The point is hes on his side so he was a dedicated communist no question about it and in this new book it leaves the outcome of your leaving it out and in the movie if they leave that out of the movie that will be tremendous. Host did any of the hollywood ten other repents . Guest yes. He was a semester actor in hollywood and i knew him back in 1997 because there that was the 50th anniversary of the hollywood ten were they put on this dramatic show about the terrible plight. The fact is that i feel differently if they were truly talking about people who then blacklisted unfairly. If they were not stalinists or members of the fifth column here in the United States trying to destroy it and there was this system upon the country and the point is they praise the people who were stalinist. It wasnt like i would feel a little different about it but here he has an alibi and i would defend both to the death about what he said and then here he is for kim il sung. This is another little interesting story as it seems to me. He was kicked out of the communist party. He was the head of the party that kicked out in 1945 on the ground that he was began believe there could be progressive capitalism and that there could be a peaceful transition to socialism and that even after the war come even after world war ii that the United States and the soviet union could actually be friendly for a while and as a result, its a complicated story but anyway, people believe for a variety of reasons that they wanted him out. There was a big attack against him but everyone thought of as a that was a signal from stalins or instantly the communist party here in the United States goes after him because he wants peaceful transition and once the United States basically to be cooperating in the soviet union after world war ii and they kicked him out. And above hollywood ten it might have even been in 45 but of the hollywood ten, they went against him and there was a big debate about it and he said i either have to be leave when an invite choose to. So he was a major enemy of the soviet union. He was a biographer of this and he himself had been a member but he was a good biographer and an interesting guy and he said that was the first shot getting rid of him. And they were all on the side of course. Host you have a chapter in here about elliott. Tell me his story. Guest the thing about his story he went to Ronald Reagan and praised both people he said look i conducted with people, they are the ones that are helpful to me and when i say blacklist if all they had to do basically if you were a communist and you have a car and a House Committee found out that you were a member of the party and had an amonte member of the party etc. As long as you could get back to work in hollywood easily. They wouldnt see anything say anything but all you have to do is renounce. Thats all you have to do and of course they would say you have to go back and name names and say who your fellow conspirators but they all got back to work. I just wanted to find out about that and he was praising the liberal groups have said they were the ones who actually went before the committee and said they had been communist and spoke against them. They got them back into the work in hollywood so you could never get back you were a communist and other right wing was terrible and the House Committee was terrible i dont think thats true. He was one who had been a communist, wouldnt name names. But then i forgot the date. He went before the committee and it was a written testimony it was very carefully done and he said look i am an economist and heres what we did. It was more on by playwright. I cant remember the name of the group right now but he said yes we were communists and then he named eight people but whats interesting about the names of the people was that he actually a couple of them have already died and a couple he went to and before he actually testified and said look i am going to testify and i want you to know ahead of time this is what im going to do. So he did but what really got them angry is that he took out an ad in the New York Times and said basically do as i do and the point is for some reason they thought that was the worst thing ever. Its a good thing and supposedly his wife had something to do with it. His wife led the fight against them when they got the lifetime award. Nobody wanted to give him a lifetime award. Hes terrible, he named names and he took out the ad. Host to list toles with about award for. Guest lifetime in my view but you can probably remember better than i can but he did a ton of stuff and im trying to remember the names now he did get an oscar. No question he was targeted. Everyone understood he was a turkic playwright and movie writer or director but they wanted to deprive him of the award so i talked to gordon about that who led and called him on the phone and he led the fight against him and said you cant he said you cant get this award because you named names. They all named names names but the heated him particularly because of that. I asked him what you have against him and he said that was it. That was one of the major points if you take out an ad in the New York Times not only did it name names but they took out the ad and said that was the nature reason. Im at the former editor of the nation who gets to the Columbia School of journalism and all that and he has this book naming names which is a very good book by the way but the point is his attitude towards everything is terrible for anybody to name names. I dont think that apple. I want to name the names of people who were conspirators. In a life and death struggle with the union. Host and not the germany. Guest that im talking about this is afterwards. In the life and death struggle the point is surely we have a right to know what was going on and how they got control of the industry in 1944 and what they were doing and host you make the case that they were filled with members of the hard left. But also fellow travelers. Do you think that having an effect on the product or the art that they created . Guest it was clear absolutely in the point but as i mentioned before they had this to me during world war ii and even before world war ii you had the blockade for instance on the soviet side. It was a cry for the United States to break its neutrality law. They leave out all sorts of stuff in the picture that was made and of course i understand where people would have been on the side though i think it turned out well but franco actually one but thats another thing that i could understand at least initially this guy is getting aid from mussolini and hitler, this is fascism and we want to fight it in some fashion. I understand that. But the fact is that it was very clear by the time this movie came out that the soviet union stalin was in control. Host they wrote an entire book on it and makes a point to soviets were every bit as brutal. Guest absolutely and the point is when this movie came out the fact is that was basically depending and they had to go through swords but nevertheless it was very clear that everybody understood this was it had a great ending. I love the ending at the end talking about the bombings and all that on behalf of the soviet side and the point is they use that and they got clips and Everything Else and they said we have the American People on our side and he can get rid of the restrictions on helping because the neutrality act with all sorts of the law against doing anything. But the idea that we couldnt help anybody and they wanted roosevelt to break the neutrality law into the soviet side and they did everything they could to do that but they failed. Franco line and i think that it worked to our advantage in the long run especially if would have been terrible after world war ii if they controlled as much as they have. That would have been deadly for america after. Host why is it important to know this, for americans to know all of this . Guest first of all i want them to know the history. It should be correct. Straighten out the record. And i think its also important because in a way i guess that is my major point and in a way people realize all this i think they would have a different perspective on history as well and they would understand the way it is today is the activities Robert Taylors name as part of the Motion Picture alliance they yanked his name down from the building in los angeles and they took his name down because he had testified in 1947 against the House Committee and after my dad bill lanchester had a documentary takes after my data. I dont find them taking after my dad data but its even falsely represented that the point is that House Committee on the activity which is incorrect to say that before the committee but the fact is i think thats it did a marvelous job both dated two major things. The hearings and then they have multiple hearings in the 50s and we have multiple hearings and you got a picture to look at the hearings and all the other things i rely on asp. But those hearings find an awful lot about what the communists were up to and i think that is a good thing and i think as a result of the measure before that you have here with hollywood producing as i said in the 40s anyway in 1944 and 45 they were producing all the goofy pictures they were saying how wonderful he was in the soviet union and of the war and the point was as i mentioned the Screenwriters Guild was loaded with communists and after those hearings though because of what the House Committee had done and the exposure of what it was really like and what people saw what was going on the fact was everything changed at least for a while and the Screenwriters Guild kicked out in the others too. So that was imported into some of the people you mentioned went to mexico and all the rest. David talks about that there was a hardcore writers around she was a communist himself and he said with all of the other people i mentioned what they did is they would actually massage the scripts during an first of all they would be taught by people who were communist. And then they would actually have to get their ideology and then they would look at the scripts and they were able or powerful enough to change the scripts or massage them in a way that would be in accord with the communist party and of course that could explain one of the reasons why. Host the original political correctness. So we are amazingly almost out of time. That went fast. I am interested as we close here, your father at the end of his life looking back on hollywood having been in the middle of all of this how did he feel, was he bitter . Guest you can talk about groucho marx on the other side but he was a good friend of my dad and would come over every christmas and host he was a noncommunist liberal . Guest and george kaufmann. A lot of these people were just liberal. I dont talk about those guys. Of course. And the thing is even in this particular book i would just like the soft left in hollywood, Billy Crystal and others not to keep honoring these people who were enemies even i think they deserve to be during the cold war but even if they didnt want to be blacklisted out of First Amendment awards. They figured trouble with the degree to december for the movie. The big defender of the constitution. Thats the way that they advertised it that Bryan Cranston of breaking bad, he may be a great actor, i dont know but the point is hes going to play trombone and this is the way that its advertised when i first saw it. John wayne, he was part of the Motion Picture. Host you have done a lot to correct the record as you see it and the book is hollywood traitors block listed allies of his work thanks a lot. I appreciate it. Guest thanks. That was after words, booktv Signature Program in which authors of the latest nonfiction books are interviewed by journalists, public policymakers and others familiar with their material. After words airs every weekend every week and a book tv at 10 p. M. On saturday, 12 and 9 p. M. On sunday and 12 a. M. On monday. You can also watch after words online. Go to booktv. Org and click on after words in the booktv series and the topics list on the upper right side of the page. And her book the meaty truth. Considering the title discussing