Motivated by resentment and they feel they are put upon and there really dont understand us. Here is the guy who will stick it to them. When Hillary Clinton gave her own version and i dont think that was true 30 years ago. It has always been a part of politics but to the degree it is almost exclusively a motivating factor host bill. Good to see you burgle we will talk about your book going to pot but first we should have the full disclosure that we know each other. Longtime acquaintance says sen friends. You must have been awake for quite a while . [laughter] guest i have has and caffeine but no drugs. Host im glad you got that out there because it is situations like this i will make a lot of plot jokes. Guest i have a couple. Host very enough probable trying to hold back and tell their tasteful. But this show is from authors and not interviewers it gives the author a chance to is to the questions would assure book about . Guest i coauthored with robert white to is a meticulous researcher for whichever grateful. I am not it is about why we should not legalize marijuana. We wrote it because we saw the train coming down the track as alaska just legalize general recreation years in Public Opinion has shifted in that direction. Maybe even the and gay marriage from to the favorable side. 1520 years ago now is like 60 percent meet thought it is important to write this book why it is odd that idea. That has Public Opinion has softened and rwanda maybe 60 percent are in favor of legalization of the Scientific Evidence is overwhelmingly against it. Lot was the drug czar 90 we didnt have this type of research but now it is overwhelming all harm that it does. That the American People are not informed. The point was to get the facts out to make a second judgment i think colorado is ground zero to put that genie back in the bottle to recur relies because theyre starting to see the results. Host to restore intended audience . Policy makers . The voters coming clearly not libertarians. [laughter] but who are you aiming this at . Guest it is for Public Policy makers and those are the voters. I was just in colorado it was decided by the people in the suits. For financial interests and others that this is the good thing to do that it was sent to a takeover by the pot smoking lobby. It was it was by citizens with the process. Host with your rendition why do think Public Attitudes have changed so radically . Direct of very smart and well financed campaign therein is big money. This is the investment of the year more big money the people for legalization outspent as they always do those who are opposed. Is in florida at barely escaped they had to get that 60 percent of the vote they had 50 percent. Sera spent by three one in one of those that contributed was sheldon adelson. Review outspend him. [laughter] that was just with one state. So what i call a rosy memory to chart the vial of the very is rosy it is better to remember after but try to live throat through again people think of the 60s him the 70s people had smoked marijuana and no big deal. That is that the marijuana we have today. Is very Effective Campaign in classic terms of medical marijuana or person who cannot get relief and neighbor tells. That is a legend ministates saying how can you deny the chance that is a difference between marijuana and cocaine but a superb physical specimen new york whalers stock fell by cocaine it doesnt happen like marijuana but it happens. People dont die from marijuana very often. The cocaine will take you to your knees. So this argument with the sympathy is what kind of person can you be to deny . So with those provisions slips were 5,000 but then she said you to have as many as you want. Most of the people were males between the ages of 18 and 25. This was fraudulent but there was of pledge so one of the groups said once we get back so many people can get everything. Host one of my favorite quotations is the example of the school of mankind. You have to show people you cannot just tell people. You said yourself you think colorado will change its mind . Isnt that useful isnt that the point of federalism . The phrase separate of democracy is loaded but if the problems with marijuana aha are what you say they are in its status as of parent, will challenge you more as a Public Policy but as a parent i want the keds and i care about to stay away from your one of how we extrapolate is different but if it is as bad as you say and i tend to agree, why would attitudes change in its favor . You would think millions of People Living their lives smoking marijuana is serving as examples to consols many people stop smoking marijuana then they stop why would public sentiment move contrast in opposition . Guest a lot of the facts on the ground have not become reality it is not cocaine. Over time in when you lose eight iq points a few start as a teenager during 10 or 15 years there is 17 will become addicted. That means a few years. There is a funny way that those who have marijuana problems they disappear into the woodworking and fadeout. They dont end up in crackhouses or beating their wives or strangling their children like crazy coke for carver is reading a book about a pot wife owe woman who was the star everything is interesting in life. Starring in the blair witch project so a grower of marijuana. That is how she disappeared. In ted not reach potential but nothing more dramatic as director our drug policy why do we let the state to this to see what happens and i thought the was the responsible thing to say this will not happen on my watch a rollout let them suffer chair prove my point to not let kids do their homework but now it has occurred there is the great opportunity so pay close attention lets go to colorado every six months and account of the numbers absolutely a. Host to open in the introduction medicare hypothetical about tobacco. I am not sure that i agree with my own hypothetical. But if it was with the in your power to start over again every are pretty close to make it a mortal sin in public. The i am told that it is a place where no smoking is allowed. To the mix cultural sense if it was in our power the edges were re our. Would we decided instead . It is so imbedded in our culture but is very harmful a cigarette smoking but it seems this society tries to prevent serious harms when possible to do so. I dont think it is beyond the realm with all the ads and how bad it is but we can make a decision to make that through society or not some accounts the outset personnel would not go to use the polls today and tobacco for had that opportunity nor would i with alcohol i like alcohol and the like cigars. So getting to the issue. Not to say that were close. What types of factors are taken in chiru consideration . What reasons can we give in then apply that same analysis to marijuana. Host so there is a certain prosecutors brief aspect to the book so as a parent ion with you for the most part. But Public Policy there is a certain amount dont leave any argument about. I was intrigued as someone who loves federalism is a gradus system ever conceived for Human Happiness how they want to live. 1. You seem to throw the baby out with the bathwater. But i wonder whether or not it is the right to to make mistakes to said not when it comes to marijuana. To revoke the saying that those that make the argument are due to federalism. I a agree the use that as jimcrow but that does not states rights or what is about today. To have been a reluctance even when the communities are making a mistake . I am not sure it has benefited as constitutional but i do believe when the two conflict there is used to beg the question from remind people it is federal lot has been passed know the Obama Administration says maybe for what that is established. Host what exactly has the Obama Administration done . Is essentially to said they would force federal lot. It is a class one substance in that fda has been told to they often dont think that is a wise way to execute the lot. If people dont like the federal law let them work to change the federal lot. But i think it would come out in a not one jew distract from your question is not republican or democrat you see Debbie Watson fran schultz get into trouble because she opposed the Florida Initiative also with their own folks that want to go gungho. Anyone with the last name paul. That will be a big thing. But to talk about the beginning can i change . The other part of the beginning of the book was the strongest part of the brief but is the harm. We summarized and reflect the entire article from new england journal of medicine to summarize the Research Done at 30 major universities and the harms are considerable. Shortterm focus and memory loss of iq schizophrenia, a loss of motivation, all sorts of problems. I did not have this evidence in now that it is available now as professor northwestern to say if i could design a drug that is massively harmful and distracting for student it would be marijuana because focus memory motivation and attention. And in some ways enough to close the case for i will lead mitt can never fully took office had a secretary of education which just seems nuts to me over a developing brain. , the kids have played football, alcoholism in utero, all sorts of ways to protect that little brain and we have overwhelming evidence it is harmful to developing brains if we want to make it available. Host that is last in the beginning who is the book for. Your returned to that theme often it is valid and and to on point skewering of that cultural hypocrisy. There is a web site that has a piece to make the case while sugar should be a controlled substance is abused it is addictive and bad for you but on paper to my mind goes back and forth between persuasive but we will not pay and sugar but if you come to the mindset of privatizing the white house to say libertarians want to privatize but the great thing about our country is debating whether or not will not socialized medicine. That it defines the boundaries of reasonable discourse. The point is valid with this incredibly hyper paranoid state about safety and health to retrieve the bodies like temples than along comes pot and then it has immunity from all those arguments it is very strange and a good point that you make. A lot of things are turned upside down. All of a sudden that is thrown out the window. Host when you talk to the audience to make the point that is the question of who wish audience because as a conservative with libertarian leanings my energy to is to say the other is ridiculous obamacare getting deeper into our lives and it excludes marijuana while being a nanny state what is wrong with getting rid of that but the cost is to make marijuana the right it has to do . Guest it is too costly and there is a difference between getting fat and being down. Maybe it is a psychological answer but the harm is so real. It is so clear and is a definite and so obvious it seems extremely dumb. Lets have the informed debate were not dealing with what is and isnt. You were in that position of dr. Gupta. He says synthetically and will not allow my kids anywhere near this. He feels differently but his record by the way he has have a couple of buds named after him. [laughter] i am now waiting for wine for may. [laughter] host so getting back to that question have you seen as a matter of debate any movement are those who were for sugar is there any sign on the horizon that pot is good for you . Guest bloomberg seems to agree and i am grateful for that although i dont agree with soda and the other things but the possibility is to say were not going after everything but we will look at things individually to decide. To again people can and do that through the changes of federal law it is interesting for the lawyers oklahoma and nebraska are soothing colorado on this issue to save the federal government has to enforce the law because of the trafficking coming out to one that is the harm that is being done. By the way this was one of a arguments if it is contained in colorado that there would not be a black market but it has become the black market the cartels are not bothered at all so we could take pride of america ingenuity growing in in colorado is way more powerful. , my brother told me about one of his clients who tried to get a plea bargain the judge said this is the worst ive ever seen in the said release . The zero were still in the whole world . Lake there is no distinction host to take that distinction. Guest i was regarded as a third rose repressive person in america by the revolutionary youth communist newspaper when i was 30 years old. Host i dont smoke pot [laughter] guest net one to Say Something about the pot put the active ingredient that gets you high commitee hc in the 60s seen in the 70s averaged 3 this hes marijuana today it is 12 for i just looked at some ads about big sales this weekend is 30 so of his 40 or 45 . Mori went to colorado to experiment taking bites of a candy bar she thought she had died but the candy is another thing. It isnt about children it is through the advertising and the candy takes a little longer so it is more insidious they take a bite nothing happens she thought she had died because of the thc chemical were better at this is as American Ingenuity and just like in breaking bad. Walter white was very good at it so were making more powerful strains and that is starting to show up in Emergency Rooms with of visits to pediatrics and talking to the clinical people about the body count. Host i will push back a little bit on that. I do agree with some detractors on some things but there is a point the comparison of a glass of beer to a glass of vodka of mrs. The fact the very few people drink a glass of vodka us to recognize those differences hard liquor and beer. Presumably people will nurse it to what will happen as i play devils advocate enough er visit have happened during of people die the lesson is learned the more potent stuff you have to treat differently than the less potent if that is a lesson that could be learned fairly quickly. I take your point but certainly we dont say we can trust people to drink to have bought cut on the market because of the alcohol content compared it to the beer to a one lots of generations have learned the lesson may be individually about binge drinking but it doesnt carry over to the next generation they continue to do with. This argument that they take the 30 teeeight chassis and they will submit is only defined by experience. But they say take golf full pull on this you will go out of your mind remember the clean needles . That is back when i was drug czar talking to people on the street is a new york in boston because i was curious with there were pushing this they say we have clean needles. It just isnt true. That is why you are seeing more of the overdose and Emergency Rooms and will continue. Host cultural vague what happens to a country that goes down the path they are pushing against it in your book . I worry because first of all, i am interested to see the governors say it was a reckless decision. He has been all over the map to be fair to say this could not keep shaper matter his position he was never comfortable assuming he was challenged but i think on balance it was not a good idea. Jerry brown i fine results and the odd position to people or site debbie boston rituals. [laughter] maureen. To england journal of medicine. [laughter] but it is odd on all sides of astoria where was i . Host jerry brown to a one he said i am not in favor of that we have big challenges in this country and california eidenshink we can do this effectively if one quarter of overpopulation is buzzed a lot of the time. The average across the country now people 12 years old and older is 7 12m boulder smoke marijuana now it is 13 it is twice that and will continue to go up. That is a big joke a big jump. Second when you have legalization ill blow mark cline be he is not in favor he was the of the gold drug czar for the state of washington says when you legalize you will see almost six times as much concerned not as many people but as much consume to hear the marijuana user imitates the alcoholic so 10 percent of people who drink our alcohol they consume 50 percent of the alcohol 20 consume 80 or 90 so what you have the weekly users are now the daily users and you can write to a lot of them off with productive activity. With the other cultural aspect of every time i bring this up to say i am a mechanical engineer i smokefree times a week for kosher. People a different but for most of us not on this end of the bell curve it will affect us. The other cultural side is the problems that we do face require a lot of attention and focus. You know the immediate fatality but i no a lot of people who spoke to. I i was in and around the university from 65 to 75. You know promise and opportunity and what they could have been in just fear off and did not die but became a lot less because it stops you motivation and focus and attention and energy. Host and i largely agree with that. Ive known people on all end of that filter the people are very productive and people who could have been. That is sort of the problem with this. Everyone can pick their anecdotes. People tend to think that guest but they cant pick the science. Host i did not want it to deep in the weeds, pardon the pun on the science, but they are competing studies for all the stuff. The overwhelming body of science, the most prestigious journal of medicine in the world not right wing conservatives. This is the science in the last five years. Assume all of it is true and there is no case for marijuana. Assume half is true, 3rd it is true there is no study for study. There are some studies you can cast doubt but the overwhelming evidence preponderance of evidence, beyond a reasonable doubt. Host lets get back to the anecdotal part. Guest one other aspect, why not make it legal. Pediatric psychiatrists, this is an anecdote. Its very interesting. They are overwhelmed. Overwhelmed. Mostly medicaid patients. Overwhelmed the kids coming in for parents. If the candies. Why you letting your child do this in the parent says well, its legal. Legal conflicts, legal, permissible, okay. When people see something is against the law most people tend to avoid it. Worried about getting in trouble and so on. It is it is important to have the law there that because it is dangerous because it sends a signal which most people observe. Host i am very torn on this. Maybe the 1st time it happened i was beginning College Campus having beers with som