Transcripts For CSPAN2 Monica 20240705 : vimarsana.com

Authors every weekend. Booktv, television for serious readers. Host joining us now on booktv is author Monica Harris. Her newest book is called the illusion of division. Before we get into that, ms. Harris, but we sure path to get to Flathead Valley montana . Guest oh, wow. That is, going to give you the condensedbo version. I was born and raised in los angeles. I went to t law school, harvard law school, and it took a different route than most of my colleagues. I went into entertainmentaw law, which brought me back to los angeles. In hindsight its a place and neverr really belonged. My heart was probably always in montana. I just didnt know i it. I worked in the business of illusion, hence the book, and i lived in land of illusion, land of fake dreams really, thats what california is, thats what los angeles is, thats what the industry is, hollywood. And and i made a life of their about 15 years until i finally had an epiphany shortly after my son was born. I realized i was living in the world that i thought i was living in. I was living in a world that a full American Dream hereby that i met everything i did work for, all of the success, all of the accoutrement, it became meaningless because i realize that i was making money that wasnt going as far. Now i had a doubledigit salary, living, supposedly living with a well on paper. But at the end of every biweekly paper eight it seems like only money was gone. I was working so hard and get making so much money but i didnt have anything to show for it. I was spending so much time in meetings. Nothing was being accomplished i was spending so much of my life commuting to and from a job i was really enjoy. I wasnt spending enough timeyt with my family. Everything i was doing begin to seem very hollow. That was the point i realized i needed to make a life change. I needed to find a path to more sustainable life. Shortly after my son was born we took a family trip. I would say my partners extended family. We went to montana. Never been there before. St montana was also my bucket list. Big sky country. Who doesnti want to go to big sky country . I spent a week there and it changed my life. It was a first time i embrace simplicity, the first time ive been on a vacation where i was intelligence connected to wifi the entire time. I went fishing. I went boating. I went hiking, and i lived like im living everyday now in montana. Came back home, came back to l. A. With my partner and i said this shouldnt be a vacation. This should beal something we do all the time. Do to get there . After a lot of jawboning and hemming and hawing she finally agreed, and we made the change. Upriver in 2011 and we left everything. We sold our house and we went to a tiny town in montana, northwestern montana, 3500 people. We decided, i was to longer practicing law. I did know what is going to do but i knew were smart, o resourceful and we would figure it out. I used that time to recalibrate, to clear my mind in the woods. When iin say in the woods we really are in the woods. We areth in a 20acre ranch at e base of the continental divide. Grizzly quarter is with the color. Literally we have grizzliesup going up throughout are probably all the time. Thats my path, a path, i was trying to recalibrate and find simplicity in my life and to make sense of the world because i should also add, back then id like to credit myself with being an incredibly forward thinking i can think of but a begin to realize even in 2011 at the world was not making sense, things were not adding up. You werent living in the world that we were told we lived in. And anyone with common sense could see it in my opinion but , what you mean by that . Guest what i mean is we are told with even a country where we have free speech but we really dont. Think people paying attention to the we live in a country thats rampant censorship now. We are toldd we live in a county where theres an American Dream where anyone who works hard can get ahead. We now have the average american i think it was a study a survey done recently, 57 of all americans couldnt even come up with 1000 in an emergency. We are told we live in a country where we have a representative democracy. I think people with common sense now understand that the two establishment parties are not really doing the job they should for american people, and that deep pockets and lobbyists are released during our democracy. Thats what it meant, there are just so many things i was taught in school, so many things many of us are taught about how democracy works, about our economy works, about how our media works. I begin to realize over the course of 20 years that none of this was really true. It was all an illusion. Host you referred to type in l. A. As and perhaps boston when you are at harvard as safety zones. What do you mean . Guest well, i would say that when i i say safety zones these are air quotes. They are faux safety zones. There is a black person we are trained and were conditionedieo believe that blue states, those that a democratically controlled, democratically elected, those of the places safe for black people. Red states, teaming with white people, with conservatives those are dangerous places. This is a myth, and illusion. What i learned was the illusion is, well, what i learned is that the reality is actually quite the opposite in many cases. When i was in cambridge, which is a suburb of boston which is were harvard law is now, it was never called the nword so many times as it was in that city. Yes your its faux liberalism as i would now call it. I realize, this is my first introduction to neoliberalism, where its sort of a hypocritical liberalism. As black people we are sure that white peopleea who put democrats have best interest at heart, it really embrace diversity, they protect us from the that people in red states when, in fact, a lot of times we just at risk if not more at risk in the states. Heres a point of fact. Los angeles, new york, san francisco, the rates of crime, black on black crime, the rates of homelessness, the rates of illiteracy, the rates are just, unemployment there actually higher in blue states in blue pockets what black people are supposedly protected by liberals who have best interests at heart. By contrast, its in red states, red cities that we actually and often find black people making the most progress in homeownership, in employment and other metrics. Thats what i say they are safe zones but theyre not really safe. And yet another point of interest is Police Brutality. We rarely see as much Police Brutality in red states as we do in blue states. So while we are comforted in the blue pockets of safety, its really a false sense of comfort. Host going to read a quote from your book the illusion of division. The end of my first year at the harvard law review, i gladly cast my vote to elect barack as the journals first black president. Like other black editors, i wanted to do my part to help you make history by the time obamas hope and change train pulled into the station 17 years later, i didnt have the energy to hitch a ride. Guest and your question is . [laughing] host obviously you know president obama. Guest yes. Host prior to that. Supporter, the longerr a supporter. Guest well, i will just say that theres a difference between electing a a person te president of the united states, and electing a person to be president of the harvard law review. I have nothing against iraq. I think, and assisted in my book, as long review editors went, he was in my opinion probably one of the most congenial in terms of ego. I think his ego was very measured. I considered harvard lover you to be an incredibly masculine tory place, people who were twentysomethings thought they knew much more than it he rey did at that age. I think there were people who were extremely arrogant, and what i like about barack was that even though het held his cards close to assess, a lot of times he didnt really know what he was thinking. Ive appreciated he was very kind and considerate to everyone. So thats why i feel that i felt comfortable voting for him because he seemed like a a good person. However, i will say that after he was elected i was somewhat disappointed with his commitment to electing or, excuse me, to appointing like editors on the radio. I think there have been a lot of hope amongst our cadre on the review that we would be better represented by the first black president of the review. I think it was a lot of disappointment, and for that reason when barack ran for president , i was concerned. I think i got a lot of flack for this, but i t was concerned that black people who thought that he would make incredible strides for our community and lead us forward in a way that the white establishment hadnt, i was concerned that we would be disappointed, that the community would be left disillusioned. I dont think, i think ive been proven correct. I think there is been some disappointment in the black community about what barack waso actually able to accomplish. Host who is lisa . Guest lisa is my partner of 17 years. Host did you get any double takes in your count of 3500 people in montana when you first move there . Guest i would say that initially, we got double takes away you might get double takes if, if Newt Gingrich showed up at the nikki manoj concert. Do you m know nikki manoj . [laughing] it was more like, well, the something you dont see every day. But i will say the double takes were not placed with this sort of contempt or aggression or hostility. It was more, come we were moref a curiosity. I am comfortable of being a curiosity as a black woman and a primarily, primarily white schools my entire life that i was in a curiosity. But we were, always been except where neighbors come much to the surprise i believe a lot of my colleagues and peers in california who really told me that i wouldth have to be, the e you would have to be on guard for white supremacists, neonazis. I think iin was cautioned in y you cant even imagine how dangerous it would be to live in montana and weve all pleasantly surprised. These and i call it home now. We would never go back to california. Host Monica Harris, you tell the story in the illusion of division through stephan. Who is he . Guest stuff on is a friend of mine from college. Hes black, hes gay, as mri. And was one of the people who show after i moved to montana, i invited him to visit me. Hes one of the many californians ive reached out to visit who refuses to come because hewo believes as a gay black man thatan he would not be safe. One of the reasons he believes, not just because montana full of white people, conservative white people, but they have guns, and that terrifies him. So what i tried to do when i first came back to california reached out to stefan, i tried to putut his mind at ease and to listen, its not the scary place that you think it is. Its a red state. There are a lot of white people. They are conservative. They have guns. But im still alive. If you visit me, you can leave alive, too. You can leave in one piece. He didnt believe me and he to this day he hasnt, and he wont visit me. Host but you also talked about the fact hes a black man into a black woman and hes, or end quotew more a threat. Guest yes, he did draw that the this tension whichi understand historically. When we go back to as a sentiment both instances, emmett till, for example. Stefan and i, my age, we grew up in the shadow of emmett till knowing nor the black than a highlyg bsexualized, knowing that or i should see what people see black men as highly sexualized. Knowing that they have often be very dangerous for black and much more dangerous than black women physically. So i understood his concern that as a black man he was at heightened risk. But what is trying to express to him is that we are not living in that world anymore. Yes, i dont want, i will let it begin to pretendec that racism doesnt exist because it does. The point of my book and what is trying to express to stefan is we have made progress. We are no longer living in emmett tills world. He is a black man. Even as a gay black man is safer than it would have been 20 years ago anywhere in this country. And its such a very important point and onet the media doesnt highlight and would rather just dismiss, that i believe that black people, the black community in general, black women, black men, gay black women, gay black men, we are not living in a world where we are in as much a danger as were being told we are in. Thats really the point i was trying to get across to stefan. Host where you trepidations about going to montana the first time on vacation . Where you an little bit worried . Guest no. And reason i can pick it was his because he get either a fairly unique history in that i grew up, middleclass family but from a very early age i went to private schools and frequently i was the only black woman or e only black student in the schools. And it was a different time. There was a lot of racism. Quite, you know, thinly veiled hostility but throughout all of it i always is able to navigate it verycc successfully and i ner felt that there was any environment that i could go into that i wouldnt be able to handle. You know, i might not always be welcomed. I might not always f feel and entirely comfortable of what i post how to do at that point at a gunness book is recognized that a three fundamental level we are much more in common than we have that separates us. So even when i been in environments like in school, generally the only black person really try to find a way to connect with people. He is a tv show we like . Is a sports team that we might, we both might check in . Is there an activity we like . Hey, do you play soccer . Do you like playing chess . I i found if you can connect wih anyone on just a very few asic, there is the basic interest, you immediately overcome any differences. Thats what i found in montana, even on is going to place what most people are white, conservative, churchgoing ande i was that of those things. We connected over thinks i believe that matter most right now. Our love for freedom, our love for this country, i believe that it is getting so much harder to even make a living, to protect our families, to give our children the kind of lifestyle that we had. All of these are very, concerned that americans of any race color or gender sexuality have. Thats why i had very little difficulty acclimating in montana. The people there appreciate others with that like mind, regardless of what to look like or who they sleep with. Host Monica Harris, what did leeson in which he said to you,u, quote, i think you need o ask yourself why your journey has given you a different perspective . What did that mean to you . Guest so to give you some context, we have been reading an article or i read an article to her in medium about the college cheatingca scam. I think it occurred a few years ago in which wealthy parents were literally paying tens of thousands, maybe even half a million dollars, to get the less unqualified children into schools, and you know, at princeton we all knew this happen. These were called legacy children. They werent that bright but if they had i a post they could get in if the parent donated money for gymnasium or whatever. I was reading this article in medium written by a black woman who said the real cheating scandal is that black people are held to ast much higher standard in getting into schools. In a certain respect that is true. D higher standard than the legacy students. So i acknowledged what you said, but my point was i wonder why this woman is missing the bigger picture, the elephant in the room is that black or white, you dont have a lot of money now, its very difficult to go to college. Its really more of an issue of class than race. We live in an area that is again heavily white, but very, very, very few people can even have a hopeof of going to the schools i went to, instead and harvard. Its not possible for these working middleclass white people. So that was elephant in the room that a wish she had addressed when a voice that concern to my partner, she said, i see what youre saying. Why dont you think of the black people think the way you do . And it tookk me a while. A lot of reflection and a lot of like consternation, i should say, to try to deconstruct what shes asking and why my journey had been different. After weeks, because i knew this for weeks, i came to the conclusion that my journey have been different because early in my life i have been put in situations where as a young, as a child i was forced to come to terms withd the fact that we he more in common than we have that separates us. That was an h experience i had n high school. I was a student in American Field Service and went, i spent a summer in the Dominican Republic. While i was in i was only black student and ili think it was lie 15 of us, had nothing in common with you students other than the fact we were americans, right . That when were in the Dominican Republic at even though we couldnt speak spanish, even though i wasnt like these kids, we bonded over the fact that we were americans. That much wee had in common evn though we went up from the same place, even though i i looked nothing like them. Avi continued to have experiencs like this in college and elsewhere throughout my life that i would bond with people who dont look like me, who are white, for a variety of other reasons because we had, interest whether they were in films, with common interest in books. We had, interest about her goals in life. We were connecting for reasons that had nothing to do with race. Host where do you see the divisions in america, or dont you . Guest cai see the divisions in america as largely manufactured. I i see them as largely manufactured by our media. There is a study done by a nonpartisan think tank called more in common. And they found that americans but anywhere in the political spectrum democrat, republican, independent, our perception of the other site is incredibly skewed. Its a distorted. They identified something known as the Perception Gap, and the Perception Gap is the extent to which certain political groups or people with political allegiances, they disagree with the other side, compared to the extent to which actually disagree. More in common found something astounding. They found that both republicans and democrats think twice as many people on the other side have extreme views that you actually do. In other words, republicans think twice as many people in the Democratic Party offer illegal immigration, and democrats think twice as many people in the Republican Party are prolife. So they have very, very distorted views of each other. So more in common doug deeper to try to find out what was the source of this distortion, what was causing it. They realized it was the media, and the quantified that with Additional Research and they found that the more media a person consumes, the more distorted their perceptions of the other side, the wider the Perception Gap. In fact, people who consume news most of the time as opposed to people who consume news only occasionally have a Perception Gap thats twice as wide. So im not naive enough to think that d the country isnt divided in some respectsys that i totaly understand that. Theres always going to be division among people but what i have discovered just personally, anecdotally, is that when we start moving into the world, a black person is moving to the world, just moving around going to grocery stores, in the workplace, traveling, they are really going to find that they thdont have very many negative encounters with white people. You listen to the media. You would be likely to think as a black w person that whenever u went into a white person, the chances of them being a white supremacist, the chances of an exercising their privilege, the chances of them being a karen are off the charts because thats what people are hurt and thats what black people, we s black people are hardwired too think thats who white people are. But when black people are honest enough, when asked a by friendsi know you think the white people askreally racist, but yourself, when you interact with them on a daily basis, what your experience like . Do you really find that youre constantly ignored . Do youha really find your disrespected . And i pose this question to my friends and my peers, they would have to be honest with the ansi no, no, its really not be but i see on the news. I see what happens to other people. They take what they see an immediate and that becomes the reality. It becomes a realityri that supersedes their lived experience, a distorted reality becomes theirir reality. And thats the danger. So whenn i say the division is illusory, because the media is created, such as ned by the way. I think Political Parties also benefit on dividing us. Its manufactured division on so many levels in my opinion. Host some of the divisions you talk about being manufactured, conservatives who embrace ahu prohuman all lies meta philosophy become white supremacist. Progressives who want children to receive a more complete understanding of the role that race has played in history become Critical Race Theory zealots. People who have geared to regular vaccine schedule all their lives but are hesitant to get the covid19 jab become antivaxxers. Anyone who is a problem with the Financial System that serves oligarchs and the powers and what else becomes a capitalist hating socialist. Guest yes. These extreme labels would apply to other people. They are very binary. Thats whats fueling the polarization. Theof possibility of seeing come of appreciative and nuanced perspective, thinking that someone can bepo anywhere alone with anyone on the political spectrum except the extremes, we rejecting that notion. Its weird. My lifetime ive never seen this. I dont think this is a very common occurrence in american history. We used to have a sliding scale of political interests and thought and police and ideals, and thats all gone now. You may be surprised to know here that i have been accused of being an enabler of white supremacy. Used be years ago that you had to be white to be a white supremacists. Not any longer. We are now living in a world where a gay black woman can be an enabler of white supremacy. Host you do blame some of this division, or the illusion of division, on the media. I just want to read from your book again. The media are risk averse players who are perfectly content to enable a dysfunctional system. They are sheep and there rewarded handsomely for deliveringfo narrative conformig news. Lets face it. What media does is not rocket science. Ilthey are skilled at keeping a straight face while dispensing information from a teleprompter that most of us are finding harder to accept. Guest present company excluded. Host that said,s is three solution to this illusion of division . Guest the solution iny my mind, at least in my opinion, is were on the cusp of a revolution and i dont think its going to be a revolution in the streets. I think its going to be a revolution in our minds. I think a growing number of people are seeing the illusion. I think polls reflect this guy thinks surveys reflect this. My anecdotal expense reflects this under think if you ask what you are seeing you probably also noticed a a growing number of people who are realizing were slowly awakening to the fact that our media and other institutions are creating a perception, a perception of division that doesnt really exist. When a Critical Massma of americans not only realizes this but has the courage to speak this truth, and to do believe that day is coming. When a Critical Mass of us reach this pointil we wont shatter te illusion. We will come together and realize we have more in common than we have that separates us. Right now saying this, taking the stand, speakingg these words is almost heretical because it goes against the narrative. But but i do believe the day s coming when more of us will have the courage to speak what i believe is obvious atoi this point. Host Monica Harris first book was reality bites. The book weve been talking to her about here at freedom fest is the illusion of division. If people are interested in going to your website, you have a website . Guest yes. Its www. Lets get unplugged. Com. Host lets get unplugged. Guest yes. Host whats the focus oft. That . Guest well, i aim on unplugging my son illusion, distraction and the deceptions that are permeating American Society right now. Host Monica Harris thank you for your time. Guest thank you so much. I appreciate it. Minute. Nonfiction book lovers cspan has a number of podcasts for you. Listen to bestselling nonfiction authors and influential interviewers on the after words podcast. On q a here wideranging conversation with nonfiction authors and others are making things happen. Booknotes episodes are weekly hourlong conversations that regular feature fascinating authors of Nonfiction Books on a wide variety of topics. The about podcast takes you behind the scenes of the Nonfiction Book Publishing Industry with insider interviews and industry updates and bestsellers list. Find all of our podcast by downloading the free cspan now up aware of you get your podcasts. And on a website cspan. Org podcasts. Booktv continues now, television for serious readers. Doctor nunnelee associate professor of history with courses and we should focus on issues like an African American woman and republican american civil war. At cornell uni