Transcripts For CSPAN3 Luke 20240705 : vimarsana.com

It is my pleasure to introduce luca russert on his book, look for me there grieving my father, finding myself, which will be moderated by danny shapiro. Lukes book is an inspiration of ones place in the world in the face of crushing grief. It chronicles the emotional story of a young man taking charge of his life, re examining his relationship with his parents, and finally grieving his largerthanlife father who died far too young. Danny shapiro is the author of 11 books and the host and creator of the hit podcast, family secrets. Her most recent book, signal fires, is a National Best seller, it was named a best book of 2022 by time, the washington post, amazon, and others. It is my pleasure to introduce both mr. Russert and miss shapiro, thank you. [ applause ] so, first, as you all probably are aware, just at least visually, Priscilla Gilman is not here, she took a fall, and she will be fine, but she couldnt get on a plane to miami. So, luke, it is you and me. It is such an honor, thank you so much. I feel the same way. Your book made me cry. I know you are all here to see danny. Your book made me cry, in multiple places in the margins, i wrote things like tears and crying and little sad faces, but only in certain places but it is actually a very it is a very hopeful and very inspiring book in so many ways. And so much about what we what shapes us, and then how we shape ourselves. And i would like to begin by asking you to talk a little bit about the moment where your book begins in 2008 with your mother in italy, and the phone rings. So, i always like to say that on june 12, 2008, i was happy, go lucky 22yearold, recent college grad, only out of college about three weeks, thought i would take a gap year, hunker down and study to go to grad school, i wanted to get a masters degree in International Relations possibly, but i didnt know exactly what i was going to do with the time, i just finished college, let me have a chance to grieve, let me go do some travel and whatnot. And i was in florence, italy with my mother and my father had actually been out with us in rome a couple days prior and had to go home to tape meet the press. I had a fathers day weekend, and we got the call that your dad fainted. And i knew immediately he was gone because he didnt paint, he was a guy who worked so incredibly hard, wasnt a napper or anything like that, so as soon as i heard that, i knew something was seriously wrong. And as i write in the book, it is a huge just of people, right . In real time, but also in the months afterwards, but for me at that age, it was here you are, happy, go look at recent college grad, want to get a degree in International Relations, five days later, you are giving a eulogy with barack obama and john mccain in the front row, and you grow up really quick in that moment. And i think that was something that it took me really years to process it because i was so involved in the idea of ive got to keep my fathers legacy alive, i have to be strong for mom, i have to be strong for the rest of the family, that i wasnt aware of the magnitude of what had happened or my own role afterwards. It was just sort of like, this is something ive got to do, just like i have to get my dry cleaning. That was how i approached it. It wasnt until later on that i took a deep breath and go, wow, that was quite something, especially for someone who was 22 and lost her best friend. I think that the rituals surrounding death are designed in part to keep us moving. Yeah. I was raised in the jewish faith, and it is true in judaism, and you were raised in the catholic faith, and it is true in catholicism that there is this mode you go into, and when that mood involves a famous father who dies suddenly, and the world is shocked and stunned, you talk a little bit about being in florence with your mother that night before you fly home, and it is kind of the last time that there is going to be any client or any intimacy or your phone is not blowing up, you turn your phones off, there is no i mean, it is actually pretty early for social media, there isnt really a lot of that going on, and you have this time together. It is fascinating because we were aware of that in the moment, and i think part of that was just because of the magnitude of the calls that were coming in, and people saying this is all over tv, et cetera. And i think my mom and i sort of said, okay, we are about to walk into a completely different , chaotic, crazy, sad world. And a lot of people had said to us, that must have been so hard being so far away, and actually look back at that as it was the greatest blessing, because it gave us that night, it gave us that time whereas mother and son, we were conscious of this was a new relationship and we have to be really strong together and we have to manage what is coming together, and lets take a moment to pray on that, lets take a moment to breathe on that, to meditate on that, and ultimately, i am so thankful we had that, because if we had been in the crush of washington, had we been around all of our friends and family, yes, there is a supportive element to it, but you do get lost in the chaos, as you mentioned, the movement. So, to have that stillness and sit in it, im very blessed that we had that, and my mom still mentions that a lot, we are so lucky that we had that bond and that time. The first place your book made me cry was when he returned to washington, you walk into your house, and all of your classmates from the high school that you went to are there, and you are an only child, and they are like brothers to you. I mean, i could get choked up now talking about it, and they just envelop you. And that begins this whirlwind process of, you know, the wake and at one point, you say to your mother, there must be something going on, look at these huge lines of people. And those huge lines of people were there to pay respect to your dad. Yeah. I think what you are touching on is two things. One, it became so real when i saw the expressions of my friends in the family kitchen. And i think up until that point, it was surreal, and then it becomes very real because you see their emotions and you see how sad they are. But then the wake, the public week, we drive and we see this long line, thousands of people, and you know, we thought it would be a big story in washington, we knew people from buffalo would come, but there were people from all around america that had flown. And you know, i think that speaks to how revered my father was, but also the sort of personal connection he was able to put through television and different mediums, and his books as well. And for me, i just got so much positive energy and support from that, and this lady says, you want to go out and greet people, you go out there for 10 or 15 minutes. I was on my feet for 10 or 12 hours. I think that at the beginning, i was playing the role of comforter, and at least at the beginning, i was also Getting Energy from that. I like to make people feel more comfortable and feel less sad, i was feeding off of that in the beginning. But yeah, that was something that, again, in the moment, you are not processing the magnitude of the and you are not processing, for example, well, this guy, his son drove from minnesota. That is a long way to go to a week for someone they had never met, so what does that mean . And how is that going to affect you going forward, youre carrying something there. Tell me about writing the eulogy and delivering it and about what happened after . Yeah, so, my mom is a great writer, and i was sort of looking at her and going, who is going to do the eulogy . And she goes, you. And it was something i obviously wanted to do. I felt the weight of the moment. But it was somewhere where you dont really know where to start, right . And i went to this apartment that i was living in, that interestingly enough it was the last conversation around my father, he was at that apartment, setting up my cable tv, and i went there, there was no furniture, there was wifi and a stool at the kitchen counter, and i opened up my College Laptop and wrote dads eulogy. And that was one of these pieces of writing which was almost an out of body experience, in the sense that it was some sort of divine intervention or spiritual being just came about me and it just started to flow, and it started to make sense and things came together. And my mom was so nervous. About that. [ laughter ] and i didnt show it to her ahead of time, and she was like, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, what are you going to say . I said, its going to be good, trust me, im going to rise to the occasion. And dads speech launched me as a more public figure, public facing figure, it was this sort of odd thing, but i have come to really look back on that speech with fondness, because when i was doing these interviews for the book, she found tape of the eulogy at the kennedy center, and i hadnt watched it for many years, and they now have it in hd, so it used to be blurry, now it is all in hd and you can really see your expression, and i looked at it in the moment, it is only time i ever came close to choking up on air. I look at that kid and he is trying so hard, and i look back at that, i go, okay, that kid, my 22yearold self was trying so hard, trying to live up to the moment, and did, but it took a lot of years to figure out what that actually meant and what the effect of that would be. And secondly, what i came to realize also in that moment with that speech is that it brought comfort to a lot of people, and let them know things were going to be okay, and that is what i was most proud of. Aside from tv executives being like, you can speak publicly, youre good on camera, et cetera, et cetera. The idea that it brought people comfort was the most important thing. And lastly, i will say on that, my happiest moment in this book to work as i was in new jersey and an english teacher, seventh grade english teacher came in line, and said, i teach my students how to write a eulogy by yours. And she showed me the worksheet, like this is how you do it. Were you consciously redoing this . No, i was just writing. That was really neat. Delivering it, too, i kept on reminding myself of how young you were. Just out of college. And you are in the front rows of the chapel, there were dignitaries, former president s, barack obama, people from all over the world, and you write that you needed to at a certain point look past them and not be delivering the eulogy to this kind of world of eminence, but like look for the friendly faces. Yeah, i looked in the back and i saw my friends, and i knew that was going to carry me. Interestingly enough, when you have an audience of that magnitude, i think politicians are sort of naturally this way, because they are very competitive people, there are very like engaged, competitive people, and so, you look out at the audience and you feel the judgment in the way. Not like negative judgment, but the idea of what are you going to do with this speech . I make speeches for a living. That is the sort of energy i was feeling from that. I said, okay, that is not a good energy to have right now, let me look back to the people im closest to and talk to them, and that worked out well. So then, within a day, you are being pursued by networks, because i mean, for many reasons. You nailed the eulogy. And you have this presence and you start receiving these offers , and that wasnt the route that you were planning on going. And you didnt you do not accept offers right away. You, i think, created a bit of an inner crisis for you of what do i do now . And then you do accept a job as special youth correspondent. Probably the first invented for this very occasion. Well, yeah, it was also an election, people were coming in that hadnt been seen in a long time, there was kind of this idea, lets take the notoriety of the last name, lets take someone who has launched themselves front and center and done well on television and see what comes of it. I wasnt naove, i knew nepotism charges would come and i knew things would be very intense at times, especially in that regard, but i think for me, i kind of look around and go, okay, this is a oneyear contract, one your opportunity. If it doesnt work out, im going to be 23 or 24, i have plenty of time. And i felt that i was providing a service, whether it was keeping my fathers legacy alive, but also trying to bring attention to important issues that affected the youth vote. And i dont want to be by myself in misery, give me something to work on that is difficult, to sort of give me an idea, this is something you can channel your energy with and focus your energy on. And there is both good and bad to that. And then after that initial year, you move over to the capitol and to capitol hill, and you begin to work behind the scenes, producing. But ended up happening is the election occurs, and the inaugoration happens, and suddenly the special youth correspondent, there is not a lot left, and the one thing i have always been a big believer in, my grandfather was a garbageman in south buffalo, my dad was the hardest worker i ever met, my mom as well, the last thing i wanted to do was sit around and collect a paycheck and not doing enough. I go to them and go, look, you are shortstaffed on capitol hill, let me be an off air reporter, producer, just sort of information gathering. Last name will open up some doors, i love congress, i know washington, let me go up there and be of service. And it was that where i would go to house subcommittee meetings, going into the late evening, and report on them. And i loved it, because it was the minutia of government that doesnt get a lot of coverage, but is very influential. You know, a lot of times, the networks will be the horse race, who is up, whizzed down . Is this bill going to pass . Dont you want to know what is in the bill . Rch to i want to bs serious. Rch to i want to bs reporter and really work on this craft. I have. Its in my blood from my parents, but i really want to make my own name on there in congress was a great place to do it. And during that period of time where did you store your grief about your dad . You stored in . Nora . And i think one of the things that i didnt realize was a lot of anxiety is attributed to the day to day job. Am i going to make this deadline . Am i going to see something stupid on television . I make a fool of myself in front of this member of congress, etc. I never really realized that so much of the weight that i was feeling came from his loss. I just assume that was the day job, am i going to make this deadline, will i see something stupid on television . Will i make a fool out of myself in front of congress, i never really realized that so much of the weight i was feeling came from his loss, i assumed that was the pressure i put on myself to succeed and i realize that for many years, i had just assumed that the grief was actually part of the day today when in fact it was something else. Was something that was very much a weight that i didnt want to explore, because if i had to explore that meant that he was really gone and it was easier to ignore that. There were moments where i would walk in the capital, and feel a massive sense of anxiety, and i would go, thats because it was this project i had to do or this deadline that i have, no, you are missing your dad right now. They dont tell you that about grief. It masquerades as anxiety and panic panic is a really good work. So you are working this job that you love but you are also very stressed out. And then, you write in the book that one day john boehner, the former speaker, says to you, you know, russert, in my office. So, it was a chance encounter, walking in the capital and i covered him pretty aggressively, this was he believe it or not when the tea party, they were coming after john boehner and they are coming after whos ever speaker now. And i thought he was bad about coverage and believe it or not, politicians do get mad about coverage and they do go to journalists, and they say he says come to my office and i go there, and i walk in, its noon on a wednesday, he smoking a camel cigarette with a big glass of merlot and reading golf digest, speaker baynor, he asked me a question he said what are you doing here and i said well your the speaker of the house and you invited me to your office and he said no, what are you doing on capitol hill, you could do this job in your sleep, youve been here seven years, i know people that, peter 10, 20, 50 years, they never do anything else, they dont know anything about the country, they dont ever leave the country, they become these washington blobs, i think you would be well served to go out and see the world and do Something Different, away from this and what was remarkable about that was i have this voice in my head and i said, you know who are you beyond this job, beyond this name, what is your own identity because you are thrust into this, and you do it, but why, and i like to think about that because thats uncomfortable, you look and you say, am i a fraud . Am i Something Different but he asked the question and it was almost a jesuit priest question, what are you doing here, he was the perfect messenger, because he had a similar upbringing to my father, first janitor to pay his way through xavier, so the messenger was someone that was hey, its okay, like, you have proven yourself that you can do this, people know that you are good. Its okay to take some time for yourself. It will disrupt the flow of hard work. You wont be looked upon poorly for it, and after that conversation, i went outside and i said okay, let me start to think about this. And perhaps, leave this gilded path. So one of the things that you began to do was, you would start searching on google maps, different places around the world. Which came first . Was it the sense of oh, i know what i need to do, i need to travel, i need to travel solo, or was it, what was the impetus of that . It was one of these things where you are on this trajectory, and at that point i was mature enough to understandl how fortunate i was, how privileged i was but also when you work in network news, the people around you are so hungry, a lot of them had toiled in local news markets, they had given everything they have to the job and you start to do that as well because you r want to honor the job, honor your colleagues and whatnot but, i would do things that got a lot of accolades, and i would do things well and be congratulated i felt empty. Like you broke the story, you are on air 10 hours for this big vote and you are living the dream and i was like yeah, id rather go back to my office and google street in jakarta and y that was the feeling of being unfulfilled but its hard to do that because you dont want to disappoint people you dont th want to disappoint your family, your friends, you dont want to disappoint yourself and a lot of times, i think you chalk it up to, these are normal anxieties that people have or whatever, but theres something there, wow, you develop this big gun control vote and you are searching jakarta on google maps and after the boehner conversation i was more comfortable exploring that. So your first solo trip, and i should say for those who havent read lukes memoir, is the bulk of it, really, is the travel and what the travel did for you in terms of life lessons and coming to understand yourself, a real reckoning, not and a messy one, a reckoning that took years. The first trip was a solo trip to maine, and you have an encounter with a timber truck that seems to have been as pivotal as your encounter with boehner. So the first solo travel, obviously i love john steinbeck, travels with charlie, im going to do that. So i have this dog, hes a pug, hes named after Joshua Chamberlain who is from maine. So i go, all right, im willing to drive around made and see whats out there. I want to talk to my father, so that was intentional, its yeah, im solo traveling but ive got my dog there, and i have the truck my dad gave me, so theres still a protective cocoon, if you will, around me, and im driving in this working forest and theres a big sign that says this is a working forest, these trucks floated up with timber trees, its your responsibility to get out, and we are driving along, and this is so beautiful, im deep in the woods, theres no cell phone reception, this is the dog, the truck and me and this big timber truck comes barreling down and its this cloud of dust, and i realize, i didnt have enough time necessarily to get out of the way, to know where the edge of the road was, i could go over, so i just took a leap of faith, if you will, literally, swerved to the right, and the truck breaks and it stops and we stopped may be a foot from going over which would have been bad but in the moment, it was exhilarating. I felt oddly very alive, and its a month before the election, and i go, oh my gosh, i dont want to be in the mix of trump versus hillary right now. I want to be ouin this working forest in maine and almost dying in the truck. And i think that started an internal sort of exploration with me, youve got to figure out why you feel this way, and see this because its healthy for you. That begins this struck me as deliberate, journey, from country to country, continent to continent. I listed them, some of them, patagonia, paraguay, easter island, cambodia, vietnam, japan, zimbabwe, rwanda, to name just a few. Your mother joins you on some of these trips, you have thanksgiving together in buenos aires. What would you say was the unifying thread, if you will, for whats next, you know, what is the next experience and also, you were keeping a journal. You are not e keeping a journal in order to write a book. That was not in your mind. But this kind of an exploration was driving it, and it seems like it was animated by your grief about your father. And also, this search for your own true identity. And also, i want to make sure that i say this about your book. You so grapple with your fathers history and who he was at the age of 32 and 34, and his accomplishments and the fact that hewas the son of a sanitation worker and he put himself through college and put himself through law school. And that you have things easier and had a lot of access, and you really interrogate that on the page and with yourself. And its a gift and its a burden. I think what you are touching on is this, around me, right after my father passed because so many people, would say in a wellmeaning matter of, youre going to be just like your dad, youve got to be like your dad, be as good as your dad, and at some point you realize you know, hes really good, youre not going to grow up to be Michael Jordan. And you get to that point. For me, the actual travel is, i had to go see who i was, and answer the question of who i was independent of my last name, the privileged bubble that i grew up in washington, so that was the original impetus for the journey. When you go to some small village in Southeast Asia where no one has ever watched msnbc and no one knows what your last name is. I need food and i need shelter, and Everything Else is an experience, i want to see how people live, and what humanity is about. So i was so curious to see how the rest of the world lived. I was so curious to see what got through from my father was very patriotic, but she was the one who encouraged me to travel and once i started to see, we are the superpower but it still very small in terms of what actually get through and what matters. I became very curious because i wanted to learn more about the world but also myself, what i didnt realize, until i started to review the journals was, there e were two parallel paths going up at the same time, what is the journey of self discovery and the other one was a grief journey. And its only in going through the journals and having these moments where im in new zealand, and its this beautiful day, and i just start bawling because im in my father or i think about oh, dad will be so mad at me, im in zimbabwe during a coup. Dont rock the boat when you go outside , bad things happen. And its not until, a few years into it im like oh man, what an effect this is still having on me, 10 years after hes gone. Around the world, by the way seeing signs from him, rainbows his Favorite Song was somewhere over the rainbow. And thats part of the grief journey, there are these regular moments of connection, the feeling of, hes with me. Were going to open up to questions in a minute but i want to get to how you arrived at writing the book because theres a point that you write about in the book where, your mother, who was very, very supportive of you doing all this travel. At a certain point it was like, its enough. Time to get back to work. Time to figure out the next step. And you werent ready to do that. You had more things that you need to do but something happened that made you turn to the journals and think theres two things, theres the maternal instinct where, your your son, he did a do is make a good thing in the beginning but now its a struggle. She could see that i wasnt being the best version of myself, that i was steadfast in the stability that i had to keep searching. Keep searching, keep moving, right, if you slow down, your world is over. And the whsecond part of that i this freedom that i had sought, because i felt like ive been on this charted course my entire life, it was so great in the beginning but it ends up becoming a little bit of a noose and what i mean by that, you can hang yourself with too much freedom. You can be not engaged in the proper way and what i mean by that is what are you actually doing . Are tyou going to this next country just to count another country, are you participating as a form of escapism . And my mom noticed that and said look, youve had this incredible privilege to go on a trip like this. Youve really got to do something with it, whether its become a better version of yourself or maybe you share it publicly, and it was an intense conversation to have because i felt a little bit under assault but it was one that sort of inspired me to go, okay, what is in here and how can it be of service and i started to read the journals which was incredibly hard at points because you start to see the trajectory of where i was going and so much uncertainty and ultimately, what i came away with was, okay, i want to do something so that theres a kid out there like me, they will feel a little bit less lost. And i had a conversation with a friend of mine who is a writer and they said, what would you hope to get out of a book and i go, honestly, if this thing ends up in the bargain book been at an exxon station, i dont care so long as one kid read it and walked away feeling a little less lost and feeling more clear about a grief journey. What i wasnt expecting, and this book has been New York Times bestseller and am so fortunate for that, i thought it would be more of my generation that would be effective, it has been the boomer generation thats been the most effective. Ive got letters from their 60s and 70s, even 90s that have said, this book helped me process the loss of my parent or spouse and i was not expecting that. And thats been incredibly powerful. So im very happy i did it but that is something i take very seriously. I read every note that comes through. And i think it speaks to how grief is still very taboo in our society. Its something that no one has a set formula for how to deal with that. And so when you can read about somebody elses shared experience, you begin to look internally a little bit. So thats been really gratifying. My last question to you before we open it up for questions is, you write in the book, about the writing of the book, and you write, the writing is humbling when you write, theres no cloak, which i certainly relate to and understand, and believe. I guess what i want to ask you is, by writing this book, you made meaning you know, its the making of meeting out of a very sad thing that happened. The premature loss of your dad, and all of those letters from everyone from you know, jen z to boomers. Do you find that connection, that shared experience is healing, i guess, in some way, with your grief . Incredibly healing, and its something where you know, ill have moments where i will read these letters and they are very heavy and i have to take a moment and i have to take a pause and they go, man, this is going to have an effect on me today. I will think about this the rest of the day but the flipside about that is, i go, this really serves a purpose. And if you are the person that was able to get somebody to feel better about their own grief journey or their own experience, then youve done a good deed, and any emotions that arise from not, you can handle it. You will be okay. I think most interesting to me, in terms of the healing component of it, is when you try to process grief, a lot of times they say you may not move on but there is moving forward. Theres truth to that. When i speak publicly and people ask me, is there some sort of magic secret or Something Like that, that will make me feel better and i go, no, it takes a long time and its different for everybody. But what i have come to realize is that if you have that. Opportunity to speak with your lost loved one, and i did this with my own father, and a meditative way is, they would not want you to be sad when their name comes up. They wouldnt want you to be angry, they would want you to be happy. I think most of our lost loved ones would never want their loss to affect us in such a way that we were not able to progress forward in our own lives. I wish i knew that when i was 23. It takes a long time to get there. But people say, what are you doing, what about this and i said well, im a work in progress but when it comes to losing my father im at a place, of peace. And that was a journey to get there but they would want you to be happy. Its a beautiful place to stop and i want to see if anybody has questions, we might have time for a couple. So when you were a reporter, what type of inner dialogue with your dad did you have . Thats a good question. If you are in a situation like my dad used to do these things at this time, i will not do it at all or do something else. Thats a great question. I had a photo of him on my desk, a photo of him and tom brokaw, and it was in this very engaged discussion that was taking place and i would think about what they were saying, and it gets to the dialogue, i think the influence my father had in that respect was, he was very prepared, all the time he would never go into an interview i prepared, if a politician came in unprepared and he would take offense to that. He would think that you are waltzing in and not working. And that e those went back to my grandfather being a sanitation worker, always pulling in overtime, never pr taking her sick days, so for me, that was a mentality that came through which was, ahead of this press conference, did i do enough preparation, ahead of this interview did i do enough preparation, am i living up to the level of work that this craft takes . So thats really where fui felt his guidance the most. Thankfully, my mom is also a writer, and she works very hardu but she is having more fun with it. So theres a lot of really interesting components to the job and dont forget to live in the moment and enjoy it but i think the idea of really being prepared is the one that i carry with me all the time. And to also know who you are reporting for. One of the most dangerous things, especially in washington is you can be consumed by the bubble and you forget that the reason you are there is so the guy who just worked a double shift or the teacher who just worked a double shift is informed about their democracy. Its not about how many likes you got on twitter. Its like, did that story cut through and educate the population . Im thinking that all of us in this room and in this world experience grief, you go through life, you dont think about it but someone you love, youre going to lose and the universality of this, do we love them or while they are alive . What do we do when we lose a loved one . Its so hard, right . And think about the question you just posed. It is something that you can be any race, any religion, any creed, any orientation, any socioeconomic background, and theres no answer. Theres no concrete answer. And one of the stories that i talk about, a friend of mine, rd his name is thompson, he does incredible writing, he did a profile about Michael Jordan and what can you write about Michael Jordan that is already known, hes the greatest basketball player of alltime, greatest athlete of all time, and thompson wrote, heres Michael Jordan, the fiercest competitor we know, the guy who has everything in the world, and Michael Jordan falls asleep watching western movies because he watched westerns with his dad. And he misses his dad. So think about that, right . Here is someone who, by every measure we see, is the greatest success, transformational figure, icon, at the end of the day, hes a little kid missing his dad and wants to watch western movies. Thats the effect that our loved ones have on us. Its a journey to get there, and i think, you know, you come to a place of where can i find peace on that journey for Michael Jordan if hes watching westerns before he goes to bed. We are all touched by what you said. Thank you so much. With that, i want to thank mr. Rester and mrs. Shapiro, feel free to join him at the autographing session outside. Thank you so much thank you, danny. Weekends are an intellectual feast, every saturday, American History tv documents america story and on sundays, but tv brings you the latest in nonfiction books, funding comes from these Television Companies and more including