Transcripts For CSPAN3 Susan 20240706 : vimarsana.com

And joining us now, booktv, its university of arizona susan crane, author of Nothing Happened a history how and why you write a book about nothing. The taxpayers of arizona must be wondering, well, i have been working on nothing for several years, so the funny part is, i tell yes, im a historian. Yes, i on modern europe, but im really a historian of historical consciousness. And what that means is im a history in of how do People Choose to remember the past. And one of the ways that People Choose to remember the past, they dont actually think theyre doing. And thats they say Nothing Happened that wasnt that interesting or oh, Nothing Happened that was boring and it doesnt get recorded or shouldnt be recorded because it wasnt important. And that struck me and i thought why is it that people use the word nothing to talk about something that theyre then saying isnt important. But they gave it a name. They called it nothing. So that intrigued me. And thats where nothing started happening. What do you hear when somebody says Nothing Happened . I hear a story. Theres a story behind that. Nothing is always something. So you can just try it out on yourself. The different ways that i started using the word nothing, i thought, do people mean when they say Nothing Happened . And i thought immediately my own kids when they said i really do it or i wish i hadnt do it and i didnt do it, Nothing Happened. And i thought, okay, thats a sign that somebody is remembering something they wished hadnt. Ooh. When else has that happened in the historical past and it turns out it happens a lot. So was one example or. They say Nothing Happened, but i wish something had and thats a very different kind of nothing its not funny at all. Its actually part of the history of injustice when people Nothing Happened, but they should have been held accountable for it or Nothing Happened and i still am upset it why hasnt this been fixed . So theres huge histories of injustice that havent been written about because nobody is paying enough attention to the pain that those people were feeling. So those are two very different kinds of nothing. And a lot of histories. Shall i go on with the other ones. Well, lets lets start with of those and perhaps its better to do an example of who is luigi or stoolie. Okay so the book opens with the story of luigi trust stoolie. And i had read about this when i was teaching a course that is offered here at the University Arizona called introduction to the study of history. So history majors have to take it. And i my colleague whos an oral historian, how can i teach about your methodology and she said you should read the story about luigi trust study. So he was a young worker in italy in the in the 1950s and he took part in a protest he was shot by police in that protest he was the only person who died in that protest. And later on a story and came in 20 years later and said, how do you remember what happened at that . And a lot of people said Nothing Happened. Nothing happened to those policemen. They were held accountable for his death. Nothing happened to remember. Louis do trust dooley. We remember him. We remember and were upset. So the oral historian wrote about that and i gave that to my students and it struck me that of the things that people remembered that they kept is Nothing Happened. The difference between the past and history. The past is everything happened. History is what we write and talk about. Its what weve chosen to remember and it takes the form of a story or stories. Theres lots of stories that we tell about the past or the stories that people dont want to tell about the past. You write in your about Holocaust Denial, when people say Nothing Happened. So Holocaust Denial is the frightening thing that ive been waiting for somebody to show up my classroom and propose. And luckily when i teach a course on the holocaust, it hasnt happened yet. But the problem is when people want to deny the past. They want to well, were okay making up our own facts. Were okay making up our own story. Were not held accountable to a truth or a fact if we believe something. Thats the only truth we to know. And the historian says, actually, there are facts. There is a past and theres a responsible way to it. And that is what we do. And thats what we teach our students how to can. Nothing happened be a cause for celebration there was a lot of concern about the y2k bug heading up to the year 2000 and then Nothing Happened. Right . Thats one of the examples. Also in the book. So, yes, people are sometimes very when nothing happens because they dont want anything to change. So this another nothing. If you say nothing has changed, you could be happy about that you say, oh, its still the way i remember it. Its still the way i love it. Or you could be very upset about it. Nothing has really its still like this. Thats wrong. Why hasnt been fixed . Why hasnt this been changed . So nothing has changed . Can mean this or it can mean that theres two different complete different meanings of exactly the same word and exactly the same expression. This book came out in 2021. Nothing happened. History. What kind of reaction did you get from your publisher when you proposed this book . Oh, no, thank goodness. Stanford University Press was excited about it and they were second press that i approached so i felt very relieved that they were interested in it because of the timing. I had been working on the book for several years, but it got to the press at the beginning of covid. And so a lot of people started to think, oh, she must have written a book about covid how were all stuck in isolation. Were stuck in quarantine and nothings and this is hard to deal with. Weve never had to do this before. So she must be writing covid and like nothing always happening. This is just the new one that were having to deal with. The second press you approached, is there a story about the first or is that nothing . No, theres theres not really a story about that. Im very grateful to stanford for having faith in this. The story i really want to tell is. Ive only written two books, and the first one was about German History Museums. And why was the first German History Museum built in the 19th century, and how did amateur decide to save and preserve past and put it in a museum . And im sure thats only been read by, you know. My Dissertation Committee and maybe one or two other people. And i thought nothing. Now thats something Everybody Knows something, right . We all know something about. Some kind of nothing. And as a historian of historical consciousness. I thought when we choose to remember nothing thats important, thats worth paying attention to. Ill write about that and ill write about it in a way that all these people at the book festival might actually be interested in. Its not just an academic book. The sources that i use for the book come from my family come from my history. I sorry, my, my own reading history from my whole life. It comes from videos i saw when i was a kid. And i still remember and this question started with you reminding me about one of those things that was part of the source for the book. Do you remember which question were on it . Because it was one of the sources for the book and thats what started this whole back story you tell me what the source for the book. Yeah well it wasnt that it was just about the publisher. I guess what i wanted to say was my goal was to write a book about nothing would be interesting to people who maybe are not in love with history, who maybe had a terrible history teacher back in college or high school or whatever. And i could say, hey, this is how i do history. And this can actually be interesting to people who think academic books are interesting. I actually had my own aunt in mind. I to write a book for my aunt. The botanist who hated history and loved reading and i thought she could enjoy this book. Then i will have achieved my goal. Did you always love history . Did you have a good history professor . I had good history teachers. I had my mom as a model. She had terrific fiction all over the house, bodice rippers, historical romances. Yes, i read them and an academic. Anyway, so im here to. I dont discriminate. Its hundreds of history. Theres so many good ways. Get interested in the stories from the past. Historian of historical consciousness. Yes. Is that a an option . You can choose when youre getting your history degree . Strangely not. And it be. It absolutely should be. But the courses i teach here are called of memories. So a course that arizona undergraduates can take. And we talk about a lot of traumatic histories actually, its a very its a heavy duty class. We talk about the holocaust. We talk about memories of trauma and we talk about things like why do we to maybe remove Confederate Monument and why is there resistance to that . Whos in favor of it . Whos against . Why . Why is this coming up now . This is part of the history of memory in the united states. Youre also the editor of cultural history of memory in the 19 century and the editor museums and memory want to focus on the latter. Museums and memory. What can we about our memory . How we remember by studying our museums. Yeah. So i first got interested in the history museums because i was wondering why do we save some things but not how come some things are considered museum and other stuff arent. Sometimes you have a famous object thats a one of a kind thing. Its unique, rare. But it turns out most of the time what people are interested in museums with those objects is whats story behind it. How did it get there . Made it . Who owned it . This one handkerchief. We keep this one handkerchief from 1812 because napoleon it okay that has a resonance. And then people say yes, want that in the history museum. But i suspect what youre actually interested in is how do we tell histories in museums in ways that have an impact on Public Opinion right now, on politics right now, because museums are changing right now and theres a lot of pressure museums to think about. For instance, maybe they have stolen art. They do. Its not maybe they have stolen objects. They have looted objects. Thats been part of their collection for a long time. Should those objects still be there . Should they be repatriate who should get them . And these theres not a simple answer. Theres not a yes no black and white on everything. So the historian is there to say, you need context. You need to know where did this object come from over time and what has it come represent in the museum . Could we represent in a different way now that would be more meaningful to us as a society and help understand our past better. Or should we say no, that was stolen . And that definitely needs to go back to its original and then we can do the right thing. This repatriation movement, when . When did it start . When did you first start noticing it . Well, became aware of it with the native american repatriation act. So this is back in the 1990s, there had been efforts before that in my current work and this goes back to the 19th century volume ive been learning from photo curators a who work with ethnographic photography collections about efforts that some museums, for instance, the united kingdom, have made to return photographs to people, to representatives of the communities, of tribes of people who were taken there. Photographs were taken of them they were taken away from them. Photographs they never asked to have made then became scientific objects in a museum and used for studies that the people who are in the photos never to. So those kinds of photos now being repatriated and i thats really important the native american graves repatriation act why did that pass the nineties. So this about returning things that are for instance in the collection at the Smithsonian Today if you didnt know this already there are collections of human remains in the smithsonian. Some of them are in egyptian mummified tombs and some of them are in ethnographic of native american peoples that were taken for, quote unquote, scientific studies, scientific purposes. And so the question then, do you want, your relatives bones and whats left of their bodies to be sitting in a museum in washington, dc, or do you want them back home where they should have been to begin with . It raises . Really sensitive questions about identity, ethnicity, about knowledge, the history of knowledge, who has a right to use something for study that belonged to somebody, had an identity who was a person, an individual . What are their rights in this situation . So now is one way of addressing that. Coming back to Nothing Happened history. You were talking a few minutes ago about the various examples. Nothing happened. Which one havent we covered yet . Theres so many. Theres so many. All right. We talked about Nothing Happened. We talked a little bit about nothing changed. Another one that people often say is theres nothing left. Theres nothing left. It might be theres just the ruins of something and not the rest of it. So theres nothing left of what used to be nothing has changed. Nothing. Its the way it was. Thats another one. So if you go back to a place you loved as a child and its it looks different and your nostalgia shook and you say, oh, that hurts nothing the way it was. And i miss it. So that could be a way of expressing emotional connection to the past. You cant really do anything about it, but you notice that this trip was nothing the way it was. Nothing is always what. Can you think of an example of something . Is not not the way it was anymore. I mean, everybody has something in their mind that they miss. Maybe nothing is the way it was. It makes me think of its about loss that you can never step into the same river twice. Also rivers all are also always moving. That ones also in the book. Thats the philosopher heraclitus. Thats right. He said that that one really resonates with me, too. I think the longer live in the desert, the more water metaphors stick. But the that the past is, its all out there. Its more than we can ever know. Its bigger than we can ever know. So were only going to know pieces of it if we try and preserve part of to keep it the way it was. Weve made a decision to intervene in a Natural History of destruction, decay. Things are supposed to disappear. There should be left. Hopefully, of the earth all together in the. I dont want to go there right now and think about the anthropocene and climate change, but lets talk about things humans have made. We a building. We dont expect it to last forever, ever. And when we look at ancient ruins really interested in, theres only that much of it left that makes it a beautiful object to look at. So were happy that its a ruined structure, but if we then intervene and say we want to preserve it as a ruin and keep it that way forever, what if we erase another example . What was the know Nothing Party . So is from american political history. And youre going to laugh. But off the top of my head i remember about it this also about natural remembering and forgetting. This is why historians depend on their notes im not an american historian. This is what i work on. So i go back into my book. Id have to look it up again and go, oh yeah, yeah, of course and my american colleagues are laughing now that i dont remember this particular aspect of our history right off the top, my head give me another nothing. Thats with you. Actually, it was interesting at the beginning of the project i tried to do too many nothings. I tried to do all the nothings i could possibly of mathematics, buddhism, quantum physics, zero zero is a big number, right . Most when most people think about it. But is also a quantity. And that reminded me of a film i had seen when i was kid that won a best oscar short back and i want to say the late sixties and was called white man creates and theres a little episode in the middle of it where a its a drawn you go the beginning of time to the 20th century through a series of drawings and in the middle of it theres a little guy sitting on a stool and hes scribbling. He goes, ive just discovered zero. And the guy sitting next to him says, huh . And he goes, oh, nothing nothing. Right . I love puns. So that one sticks with me. Its visual, its zero. But i also had to step back because i cant do mathematician. Im not great at physics, but i am really good at historical consciousness. So i thought nothing has changed, Nothing Happened. Nothing is the way it was. I can about that and that took me from the possible nothings back to the ones that could and i still a lot i guess i want to end with life and death. The debate over what happens when you die, whether something happens or nothing. My goodness, you want my personal opinion. This one i dont deal with in the book. So have got my own thoughts about this. Just like anybody would. But i would. I would think about what does it mean not be remembered. So not going to get into the metaphysics of it. Im going to think about what does it mean when somebody has passed and theres still a family a loved someone, someone who loved whoever, its been lost still remembers who they are. Theyre still present. Thats something that isnt that something not nothing is left. Thats still something is left. And its a memory. So as long as memories persist, the past is still with us. The past is present. We make the past by remembering all the time. Whats your next project . Im working on historical photographs and im looking at the relationship between captions and images because i actually, when it comes to old photographs that havent had a lot of information, travel with them into the present, lets say in 19 century photograph, you might just pick it up out of nowhere and nothing about it, but think you do you think you recognize a figure you think you recognize a place youre bringing all of what you know to bear on a photograph that wasnt made for your eyes. Why do you feel entitled to say, you know, whats in it . So im thinking about how we actually nothing about a photograph and yet we write histories and we write captions that make it look like we know more than we do what are we going to see that book . Oh, soon, i hope. Professor susan crane, author of Nothing Happened, a history, came out in 2021. Thanks. Joining us on book tv, thank you very muc good morning. My name is mario correa. I am your moderator for this panel. And credible authors who have chronicled one of the seminal es