Transcripts For DW Close Up 20221005 : vimarsana.com

Mines for the jewish community. Its traumatic to see that Something Like this as possible. Again, to saw it was the, the nuclear is convert us via christmas or is this really too much for us to bear . Does us, if we left it hanging and cancel, what would it completely negate . The last 70 years germany has spent confronting its not true pan left, i would at least like to ask, is questioned in the document to 15 and to show the perspective of former colonial countries as increasingly the public debate became focused on exhibits that could be interpreted as anti semitic ah, the coma does that additional im. The document is ultimately the justice symptom of the increasingly skewed state of our media landscape. She flogger, it was well above all, mission, be actively seeks out anti semitism all over the place and that is the active. So what do you document the document was made into a kind of proxy war in which the german public disgust itself and argued about itself and had a document all hike. Ornstein viewed a document or showed us a word from the perspective. In particular view formerly colonized countries and their trauma with us in europe as former colonial powers on mine idol. And its my impression that we have not adequately seized the opportunity not by a long way for this debate, which has been stifled in the anti semitism debate in the autism. It is more spick water. So how did we get to this point . And how could things escalate so much . Ah, what, what i see here is the final debacle in an Art Exhibition that was dogged by scandal. Its an edited compilation of old pro palestinian films so this is mostly tokyo reales Film Festival is the name of the work by the palestinian collective subversive film. The panel of experts set up after repeated anti semitism accusations cold on the screenings to be halted immediately. They said they were anti semitic propaganda films that should only be shown within a critical framework easily if a dot on the wall of israel is defamed as being a fascist state eyes. And israel is accused of committing genocide against the palestinians that together this is a conflation with national socialism. But perhaps even more dramatic in this film compilation is the extremely one sided representation and the hatred of israel high and also the glorification of terror and violence. Ireland oak lloyd concealed from till on divide the ex, criticized document, a 15 as a whole. They said those in charge had permitted the creation of an atmosphere that was anti zionist, anti semitic, and anti israel. The curators of the exhibition the indonesian collective ruin, grouper and many artists responded with an open letter. They said that they felt reprimanded uncensored in this german debate and ultimately thrown under the bus news this very, ah, centrally stick. Another italian structured it sort of like install in this whole a conversation. Thats what we actually really, really having problem with this dispute had risen to boiling point and it had become extremely polarized the document 15 was intended to stand for Something Else entirely. The aim was to try out a very different global perspective, one emancipated from capitalist structures, including the art market. The curatorial collective ruined group are promoted the principles of sharing collaboration and sustainability. Embracing a snowball principal in which invited guests in turn invited other artists. At least 1500 different artists and groups. But months before the opening, the emphatically egalitarian atmosphere was already being obscured by another topic. The problem of finger until the problem started very early on in mid january. Us even such to share was a growing wave of criticism that the choice of artists was totally imbalanced. So luther wouldnt like given to him in dallas, in, in collectives close to the b d asked movement toma, which calls for a boycott of israel. And therefore, the whole of israel people were in the clear majority because im to is while there was not a single jewish artist from the region couldnt answer, can you edition couldnt slow kind of good slogan. All of these hooking up their document doesnt, jamie, but there are, by the way, jewish artist is taking part and represented in the documentary and israeli artists to what they say. They do not want to address the public in this capacity because they do not want to be co opted by this debate and for you the day but a stay environ. In spring, the Central Council of the jews in germany became concerned that the exhibition might include anti semitic images and events. It proposed that a panel of experts should look at the works of art prior to the document. His opening is getting ne, human and dizziness proof. This is not about some test or political convictions, find me, but that is not acceptable of it. In particular, where art is concerned and get bashed a concurrence. Oh dear, it is about ensuring that there is no place for anti semitism directed at israel in the art displayed or in the document as Accompanying Program at his most kind. The le plots i named off a blog called the castle alliance against anti semitism, was the 1st to voice suspicion that some curators and artists, including the palestinian. Yes and holly could be associated with the boy caught divest and sanctions movement. B, d s. Its also also alleged the Advisory Board and Selection Committee contained anti israeli activists. The blog is renowned for its strident criticism of islam. In january, it accused highly of making anti semitic comments and said the Cultural Center where his artist group, the question of funding, meat was named after an Arab Nationalist who supported the nazis. Their accusations were countered in some quarters, but suspicions continued to resonate in discussions in German National media. When had these a full rule for people accepted these accusations without researching that warner without approaching the artist was involved grimsley . Let alone ruin group are directly linked by that it ultimately led to positions, probably becoming entrenched on both sides as soon. And well finish off gordons arden, which for health and accusations and entrenched positions even before the documentary had got under way. Then director general repeatedly defended the curators v as in kind. Id be d, as we do not see anybody as influence in this documentary is here and is, and we havent seen any anti semitic artistic stances or statements in this context up to now on text was lung. Because in that some of the curators were strident. Critics of israel and cigna trees of a letter a inst, apartheid for example, it classified israel as an Apartheid Regime on the little for part that is a letter against apartheid is clearly anti is raynichol. Its very one side. Now the only taking the side of the palestinians in the entire conflict in particular who in the conflict of may 2021. These are that is in these railings are seen solias perpetrators. Nevertheless, this depiction is still not anti semitism. It is for now a distorted image of the middle east conflict of the curators felt misunderstood victims of prejudice and racial discrimination. They plans to stage a series of discussions on racism as well as anti semitism. But the proposed podium discussions were criticized by the Central Council of the jews in germany. Its president yoseph schuster wrote to the minister of state of a coach, a claudia holt saying that concerned jewish figures and the council had been excluded. Participants began to pull out on the document, ultimately canceled the talks. The curators wrote an open letter criticizing the collapse of the plans, talks as a break down in the gym and discourse on anti semitism and racism. But they avoided speaking to the media directly. He could sla, obviously from very early on, the artists felt that they had been put in a corner and did not get the impression that people were really talking or listening to them. And that placed a strain on them in particular because a lot of what was said can also be understood as racist talk would. Oh its my sisters pushed in con, critics feared that anti semitism was getting a platform on gym and soil. Those criticized felt they were the targets of discrimination. Their office was plastered with racist slogans. This to ation escalated. There was a break in at the exhibition rooms of the Palestinian Group as he car. It was with me it with graffiti activists projected images on to exhibition buildings drawing parallels with the nazi era. Before the documentary had opened its doors, the climate had become completely toxic. And then the dispute exploded with the 1st glimpses of the exhibition in the series of paintings called guernica. Garza was extremely controversial while from so right as admissible criticism of israeli attacks on garza, for others. It was openly anti semitic, was told historically it is an absolute crime to acquaint the destruction and deny elation of guernica in the country and the planned and elation of the entire bonds. People by franco and hitler with the problems in the gaza strip. These problem i think in admissible in terms of all history for history, its purely a welcome political propaganda and it is and minus politic danica garza is by mohammed l. Y tree. It combines motifs from old masters with images of war. Hes a member of the garza based as he car art group and was invited by the palestinian collective. The question of funding the artists origin should also be considered when deciding whether this series is anti semitic. According to anti semitism expert man on mentor that result in concert, we should assess and work made by Palestinian People who live in garza on the very differently the one created elsewhere in the well. And this of the, of course, even if this work about is very one sided, it very clearly comes from somewhere very specific. And the visitors noticed into it. It was created by people who live under occupation, or in the case of gaza under Fineman Square in an enduring complex, our half an art is borne out of this suffering. And this, ill see the shouts for the tins eeoc once before august elses name and vehement as he good question is should we adopt different standards and Different Countries and different cultures when it comes to antisemitism, madison with us and i have a very clear opinion on that my mind on anti semitism is something that can be objected by a celtic t. V bar. This very divergent assessment of this palestinian series of artworks shows how differently people can think about these issues. The bland demarco dizzily again. A got garza on how about the whole . I think matea zation of mohammed al ho arteries or series guernica garza as an anti semitic. It was wrong from the outset. Good. Guernica. Good. Molly counters. 1937 paintings. Guernica has become a universal anti war symbol, like them harmless sandals, romulus artists, as of use the motif, or paraphrased the paintings without any one contemplating that they could be making a reference to the nazi aaron or drawing a nazi comparison. Oh, so so, so in is for glazed still better than that just it only happened here in germanys endorsement gusher and it is the result of complete ignorance towards modern art history, ignore and scalable. Although more down and con scotia, many critics including ones from outside germany, initially reviewed the art which was mainly from the global south in positive terms. There was also interest in an Art Exhibition that drew on the idea of solidarity and community the artwork, peoples justice, was not hung in time for the press preview. The document later said that the arrival of the huge banner in castle had been delay feet and the banner damaged. The organizes said it could only be displayed once it had been repaired. The image created by the indonesian collective tiring party with 2 motifs that can be interpreted as anti semitic, unleashed a huge scandal to spun at peoples justice just an am after the banner peoples justice is akin to the caricatures and the nazi newspaper dash drama, and pfizer from boston, and it represents jews in a way that we can not have imagined happening in germany in the year 20. 22 had been foster to an action like this could be displayed in the middle of a ta marketplace in this way. And i know stats so august has been cut off d as a new build significantly. Sphincter, you can immediately see 2 anti semitic images unfurnished. And one is a di humanized stereotype of a jewish banker. Its an all and we point it is bloodshot, eyes, animal fangs at a bowler, hat with as asked. Insignia as a swollen once more under that vega is a demon controlling him, you could say. And in front of that, the depiction of a ma side agent with a picks head and the star of david on a red neck achieve. It has demonic connotations. In indonesian gala iconography will go fi every them, one is theaters. It unleashed a wave of indignation, but those responsible didnt respond immediately. In a statement, the documentary director general and the executive board said all those involved regretted the lines had been crossed and feelings hurt and quote. We also expressly apologized that anti semitic images when not identified before the works hanging and quote, ah, the banner was covered over, but that didnt quell the indignation. A day later, the decision came to take it down, ruin. Groupon and the art is to collective towering party, offered explanations. Over the following days, they apologized, towering party said they recognized that the imagery had quite taken on a specific meaning in germanys historical context. We were sought because since the finally by the beginning of our existence, we try our best to to respect all people. We know it was painted there, but we didnt knock is that when we displayed here. So because 1st, because it was 20 years ago. Second. Because there are so many figures in that by nurse 8 by 12 me those been her . Ah, 3rd because perhaps we weve seen it 220 times. In fact, the 20 year old work created by the collective sema ties the horrors of the su hearty regime. That ruled over indonesia for decades. It was responsible for the murders of hundreds of thousands of alleged communists. The dictators who hot i was propped up by west and politicians like helmet cold and western intelligence agencies like the cia and germanys Foreign Intelligence Service to be in d dead jamar o 2 todd, we could have said to towering padi audio code. We are very sorry that we supported this dictator ship back then, which began with dreadful massacres. All must remote because not windows. That would have been an appropriate response from an equals after towering parties. Apology for the picture went on toddling party from the diesel. Seem a bit towering party literally means teeth of the rice plants. The group was formed by art students in the 19 ninetys in protest against the su hotter regime. As a left wing collective opposed to capitalism and military violence, they were classified as enemies of the state. Their banners also featured in the street protests that ultimately ousted su harter in 1998. Since then, they have been an established part of indonesia cultural landscape. Lou tearing party say that very few journalists, all politicians had shown any real interest in that perspective. This is not about what dialogue, after all, because there wasnt any this now about exchange ideas. This, this is last about understanding is are the difference. It is more about breaking babu that you couldnt even talk about thats what make us even more. St tiring party said they could no longer recollect to painted which figures back then. People disagreed about whether the ma sad figures constituted an anti semitic stereotype. Either is a single one of those. All of these figures represented secret Service Agents of western providential. Sylvania and the ma side figure was only one of them, either the fawn and thats why i would not now judge it to be anti semitic. Its us anticipate bush. I should often van, indeed, the pig symbolizes Something Different to tar pardons by telling body, and has its own significance in indonesia and left wing circle delivered door to hot d. Im which doesnt have anything to do with our view. Austin, of the tradition of depicting jews as pe, weiner who missed super hot here kind of a nice mission under cb to so i dont regard this as an anti semitic image and but as a criticism of intelligence agencies quinn, prophetic or difficulty, a historical background also justifies as criticism to see if at all the agencies named, including the israeli one were involved at the top of so hard to his very brutal regime hydrogen. The criticism is legitimate to you and i dont regard it as anti semitic as the figure doesnt use any stereotypes in the sense of the boss with the side locks or hooked noses or such like i just finished up distributing the Central Council of the jews in germany by contrast, said the pitch, his symbolism spoke for itself. Yet mangan, all these elemental of interior precisely these elements were used ultimately to criticize massage and, but apparently at least as with other batches. But it doesnt usually israeli flag for example, but the star of david cloud up. So theres a clear reference to jews and it is a very intentional one. And for the playstation ah, the document 15 had turned into a controversy. The people who had been warning of anti semitism for months, felt vindicated. Even before the banners discovery, germanys biggest newspaper had denounced. It is shameful. Another major news portal later dubbed it the anti semitic 15. The german chancellor said he would not be attending the pressure on minister of state for culture. Claudia hall was growing castles. Mac lucien gazelle ha, and the state of hesses coach. Him minister angela dawn too. But apart from the curators apology is responsible just traded blame claudia, who said she felt deceived, adding that for months shed been assured that there would be no kind of anti semitism at the document. Her disability, nick, everyone has just passed the bogs kite. The Supervisory Board was not responsible for the city of castle and the state of hair, sir. Not responsible di, the people who commissioned the curators not to be seen far and wide, and not responsible for. Unfortunately, the curators who wanted to adopt an entirely new curatorial concept and not responsible either in the 12, i think thats a problem by a massive exhibition. Like this needs, clearly defined responsibilities and also curatorial responsibility, onqua tools for fun, talk to that went wrong. It didnt work initial thing, it problems. Its all homeowners. Crew to the problem is also located in the ministry of state for culture. Does masonic that has to be addressed. Linda smith and even the full warnings people cant just react with surprising in the way some people are doing music. Its only good of osgood, like tom lavon. Allison is thus got from the outside. I dont think you can judge who made what mistake does. I think that it was good that drew on group, on as the artistic directors took on responsibility for the works of tearing party. And that they apologized. Jesse, the insured, as tom said, man of foolish as arent going in for fail course, i would have been possible to say in advance on yes, we must discuss the issue more clearly with the artisan smartern come. But what i cannot do in advance, and i have always resisted that. I cannot act as a censor. Kiner sings wolf warn him. That was law constitution guarantees artistic freedom. I said in terms of the works and their impact off kind of there cannot be pre censorship and i cannot install a committee in advance that tells the artist and so thats okay. Thumbs up. Thats not okay. The thumbs down until the disagreements continued. Marathon mendel, the head of the Anne Frank Educational center in frankfort. First offered to act as an advisor, but then withdrew that alpha. He said those responsible for the documentary when not willing to address the anti semitism scandal. In response to mendels decision, the celebrated artist, he toe shanaiah, announced that she would withdraw her video installation. She said that she had lost faith in the management due to their treatment of the anti semitism scandal. She said, the exhibition makers had refused to accept mediation director general Sabina Schulman initially rejected kohls for her to step down a name of mine, of, of gov if im exercising my role with all due responsibility. Goldberg, not before i still believe in documentary 15 on, and i also believe that a captain should remain on board in heavy seas as copy to him on board blabbed. But the political pressure became overwhelming. In mid july, sabina shall man step down from the helm of the international Art Exhibition. The cultural manager alexander found host became the interim head. 2 days later the worlds biggest Art Exhibition has revealed yawning divisions. The document 15 was meant to bring about more understanding to bring the perspective of people from former colonies into focus. Instead, they feel as if they have been re colonized while others emphasize that lines have been crossed, that never should have been can we learn something from it . Nonetheless, donaldson as us, we must talk myself included as i look back after time, as allows to schools and see it much more as a problem of discourse. The one that shows us a more underlying problem can, namely, its 5 how to we in germany with german history. Though, look at israel and the middle east conflict. He still is earliest denials, gothic di debit to vote against clayton. The debate was clearly instrumental ised and turned into something thats now being called an updated version of the german historians debate of the 19 eighties and a conqueror. And ultimately, a contest is being opened up about remembering, remembering the showing and also the completely new demands that germanys colonial history should also be remembered. As i said, this is a very rapidly developing discourse, and thats why its also highly charged off the line of eyes up bringing different histories into dialogue with one another. How could that work . What does this document mean for future debates and exhibitions . Consequence, all stockton, the butter. The consequence of the current debate should be that people once again engage critically with anti semitism in the field of art and culture. Sancho tools, none the sets, people should look at how we can keep art and culture free from antisemitism. In the future and what are the instruments and measures required to ensure that all the mos normandy, the fil father listened, and on the south side of allies in each fin them, id find germany as a society, as a state and reliable and surprisingly democratic, and still not at all extremist balconies, exclaim is tish been when i say this a good. And then the next thought stands to reason. I mean, these debates should also function without all this stridency one, it isnt gone on it is against. If we have to break that down by saying we are all working together on the same project to salmon onto some sale, to preserve germany as a moderate non extremist countries exclaim, and we didnt discuss every things come on. This foundation borden couldnt beat us alice in what is clinton . Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah ah, what of these mountains of waste could just disappear . Sustainable packaging is urgently sought. Bags made from algae bomb from mushrooms the future of sustainability. When will new technologies become Cost Effective . Made injury in 30 minutes on d w. Ah ah ah ah ah. This is dw live from burly nobel prize for 3 pioneers of click chemistry. The role Swedish Academy of sciences on us the trio for discovering a way to snap molecules together. The technology that could help make cancer drugs or effect