Transcripts For KGO 2020 20170819 : vimarsana.com

American breakfast. Into the secret locations and minds of a hate group. And into the opposition. Who hate what the White Nationalists stand for. Im not trying to shut them up. Im trying to shut them down. Tonight, leaders from both sides come face to face. As our cameras roll. If the goal is an allwhite homeland, how do you do that within the laws of the United States . Youre not going to stop us. Yes, we will stop you. Fractured america. Good evening. Im elizabeth vargas. And im david muir. As we come on the air, the sense of uncertainty and unease growing throughout the country as more confederate statues come down. Just today, a protest in durham, north carolina, with more planned. And in the shadow of the remarks by the president this week, that both sides share the blame, that there are fine people on both sides. Magazine covers portraying the president with kkk hoods. Tom llamas with unparalleled access, and what led to the horrif horrific flashpoint of charlottesville. When you look at charlottesville, especially that friday night with the tiki torches, i think the country was shocked because those folks looked like people in your neighborhood. They didnt have the robes. They didnt have the tattoos all over their body. In many cases, they looked like somebody that you might know. Reporter the shocking images, the killing in the street. Just plowed through hundreds of people. Reporter the violence in virginia last weekend was just the most recent and most tragic confrontation between White Supremacists and a militant resistance. Were seeing a period of unusual, intense polarization among the population and in the political arena. Just get over there where you belong. Reporter for the past six months weve been crisscrossing the country tracking all this political violence. Embedded with both sides, from their biggest brawls to their secret meetings. Some of what you will hear tonight will be hard to hear and difficult. But its important to understand how all this began. Our story begins here. Knock the crap out of them, would you . Seriously, okay . Just knock the hell, i promise you, i will pay for the legal fees. I promise, i promise. Reporter last year the Trump Campaign inspired many types of people. Among them, Matt Heimbach, a rising star of a White Nationalist movement that calls itself the altright. President trump has denounced groups like heimbachs. Racism is evil. Reporter but heimbach says the president been an inspiration. Hes opened up a door. His movement has opened up a door but its up to us to take the initiative. Reporter the number of hate rose last year to near its alltime high, says the Southern Poverty Law Center. Now leaders like heimbach admit to a newfound energy. I think hes a reflection of the excitement that mr. Trump has engendered in the white supremacist movement. Get out of here. Get out out reporter thats heimbach at a trump rally last march. The guy with the beard and the red hat. Striking, and then shoving this africanamerican protester, as shes being led away. He later pleaded guilty to disorderly conduct. There wouldnt be any violence at trump rallies if, of course, the far left protesters hadnt gone into the rallies and tried to disrupt them. Reporter isnt there something to be said about decency. Clearly youre on that video pushing a woman from the back. You have a right to defend yourself. Reporter the antagonists of the altright are really a looseknit group of activists, who prefer to be called the antifa movement, short for antifascists. Right now, were in a very dangerous place, were in a very troubling place. Reporter Lacey Macauley, a selfdescribed anarchist and selfdescribed anarchist and mildmannered worker at a nonprofit by day, was one of the few antifa activists willing to go on camera for this report. A lot of people basically have been responding by caring to join the antifascist movement. Antifa is on the hard left. In fact, many would argue parts of them arent even left. Theyre anarchists. Reporter and theyre not afraid to play rough. In san jose up close, i saw it up close. They brutalized Trump Supporters at random. Throwing eggs at them, beating them bloody, and attacking their cars. Theres no doubt that the antifa believe that physical confrontation is necessary to prevent the rise of White Supremacy. Reporter the protests didnt cool down when trump won the election. The man who will be the 45th president of the United States, donald trump. Reporter the altright rejoiced. It was at this notorious conference in november that much of the country was introduced to Richard Spencer, the selfstyled intellectual who coined the term altright. Donald trump means that the world is changing, something new is coming into the political reality. Reporter several eagerly joined in his enthusiastic nazi salute. Hail trump. Hail our people. Hail our victory. Lets not sugarcoat this. Hes a nazi. Reporter for a lot of americans who saw that, it was terrifying. I knew that i was being highly provocative when i said, hail trump. I dont think theres anything wrong with saying that. Reporter to be clear, most Trump Supporters arent altright demonstrators. Most trump resisters are not antifa. But those mobilized minorities at the extremes can have a big impact. And january 20th, Inauguration Day, became dday for both sides. Many of the people 20 20 has been following for months were right in the middle of it. I, donald john trump, do solemnly swear reporter just blocks away, some members an antifa group lead by lacy macauly disrupt j20, swung into action, torching a limousine and scuffling with police. Theres a massive undertaking in the district to actually oppose the inauguration of donald j. Trump. Reporter macauly believes hate speech is the equivalent of violence, and can be answered with violence. Weve seen her take on armed White Supremacists with little more than a bullhorn. So why do these confrontations always get so violent . I mean, yes, you might have your hotheaded 19yearolds. Antifa who i know are really trying to actually act in self defense. Reporter but what about the vandalism and harassment here of an inaugural ball guest perpetrated by some of her associates, using socalled black bloc tactics . Everyone wears the same color. Hey, basic black. Its trendy. And also just, you know, wearing the mask, to conceal your identity. Reporter the world got a glimpse of these tactics in action when some in macauleys group, clad all in black, smashed the windows of a starbucks and a bank of america. Breaking a window is a symbolic act. Windows break all the time. Things break all the time. Reporter so this is your home. If i after this interview, if i broke all your windows in a symbolic act, youd be okay with that . That would be a symbolic act. I mean, if you wanted to protest this interview, you can break the windows. Reporter and there that day at a command post in mcpherson square, Daryle Lamont jenkins, a truck driver from philadelphia who describes himself as the intelligence expert for antifa, keeping tabs on spencer, heimbach, and their altright ilk. So youre a watchdog . Correct. We basically just report what we see. We go anywhere they go. Reporter on the other side, Matt Heimbach was there. And Richard Spencer turned up too. Well expect some protesters, theyll do silly string. Reporter then a turning point. Watch this. Spencer was conducting this interview when, wait for it. A man walked up and punches him, right in the face, in the middle of the street. If youre doing something important youre going to be attacked verbally and physically. Im willing to go through with it. Reporter the attack went viral instantly. Sparking an internet debate about whether it was okay to punch a nazi. Was that okay . I think that you saw a lot of people actually very inspired by the fact that the nazis are not invincible. Of course its not okay to punch a nazi any more than its okay to punch a doctor who performs abortion, if you believe abortion is murder. The same people who insist that they are in the right when they are engaging in violence would be horrified if the roles were reversed. Reporter as fate would have it, just hours after spencer was punched, the roles were reversed. On inauguration night in seattle, an antitrump activist was injured by a gunshot through the abdomen. Police the only individual whos ever been shot at one of these rallies, he was an antifa member. And he was shot by a maga hatwearing trump fan. Heres the reality, 74 of the extremistrelated killings in this country in the past ten years have been carried out by right wing extremists. Reporter given all that, youd think spencer and the altright might have wanted to dial things back. But instead, he was just getting started. They brought the fight to us. There was a war started. And those sons of bitches started the war. And so were going to respond to them. Reporter when we come back, the altright is heading to campus. Trying to recruit americas youth and the resistance is there to greet them. And, inside an altright conclave. You never know who youll meet. Im a baptist preacher, so i got to maintain a low profile. Reporter stay with us. Cameras. Introducing the newly redesigned gla suv. At a price thatll make you feel like youve gotten away with something. The 2018 gla. Lease the gla250 for 359 a month at your local mercedesbenz dealer. Mercedesbenz. The best or nothing. Like this little guy, sam. Pets he eats blue wilderness. Its proteinrich, grainfree and made with more meat to satisfy the wolf spirit that lives in every dog. Right now, buy one select blue wilderness bag at petsmart and get 2 free cans or tubs. 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Defeat never, victory forever. Hail victory. Reporter there are several speakers here. We are white people. We are aryans. Reporter but none quite like Matt Heimbach, who is practically worshipped by many of his followers. Matt heinbach is extremely articulate, well spoken, he is a genius and he is whats taking this movement forward. They see me as their leader, the one thats fighting for them. And i couldnt do any of this without them. Reporter you look up to someone like adolf hitler . Of course, we look up to men like adolf hitler. We look up to him as inspirations for what we can achieve. Reporter also inspired to follow heimbach here, some who prefer to remain anonymous. Im a baptist preacher, so i got to maintain a low profile. Theres a festive mood as they pose for photo and load up on pose for photo and load up on ss patches and other nazithemed merchandise. Heimbach was making headlines back in 2014, for his attempts to form white students groups at college campuses. Racists, fascists, antigay. Kkk, go away. Reporter today, heimbach, a delivery truck driver, and a father of two, says his moment has arrived. Is your movement on the upswing . Our movement is growing very, very quickly. Reporter heimbachs ideology is nothing new, but whats most disarming and disturbing is his manner. Friendly, softspoken, this teddy bear of a guy looks like he belongs behind the counter of an ice cream parlor. So the klan wore hoods, they hid their identity. Why dont you guys wear hoods . We have nothing to hide. Were here to bring our message to our people and to fight for them. Reporter needless to say, aside from streetlevel actions, heimbach has discovered the power of social media, especially youtube. Hello, comrades. Miscarriage of justice. They hate white people. Its just basic like speaking videos. Im not shooting a hollywood movie, i dont need a big jewish budget. Reporter do you hate jewish people . Hate, do they hate me . Reporter i dont know, im asking you. We were with heimbach back in april, when he arrived at alabamas Auburn University with his posse. Hes here to support altright leader Richard Spencer in a nationwide campus recruiting effort. Since mid2016, weve documented about 250 instances of white supremacist flyers and recruitment going on, on college campuses. We are here to be able to ensure that they hear mr. Spencers message. One that should inspire the white students to love their people. Reporter private school educated, from a wealthy family, sharply dressed. Spencer presents as the White Nationalist for the upper tax brackets. He had two goals. One, make White Nationalism more intellectualized and have a greater appeal to young people by toning down some of the more obvious uses of nazi symbology. Greatness is far more important than equality. Equality is for losers. Reporter why not just call it White Supremacy . Why not call it neonazism . Whenever anyone stands up for our identity, we get called this collection of names, like, youre a neonazi. The idea that hitler has a monopoly on identity for white people is just simply ridiculous. Hes a spoiled rich kid. Whos never had a real job other than conservative propagandist. Reporter antifa activist Daryl Jenkins has attended many spencer events and today his comrades would love to stop spencer from delivering what they consider a dangerous speech. Its not so much shutting them up, its about shutting them down. Reporter afraid of violence, auburns administration revokes spencers permission to speak. Professor geoffrey stone says caving in to the mob is a mistake. What happens then is anyone who wants to speak, if other people want to shut them down, all they basically have to do is say, well, were going to be violent, were going to disrupt, were going to riot. And then the police will go and shut down the speakers. Reporter spencer, happy to play the firstamendment martyr, takes the fight to court. We are on 85 south, and we are going to the courthouse to file a junction. Reporter hours later, the court says its a clear First Amendment issue. Auburn university cannot stop spencer from speaking on campus. I thought our chances for victory were slim, but we did it. Reporter an hour before spencer speaks, the action outside is already heating up. And heimbachs men chant. Communist scum, off our streets communist scum, off our streets if you believe america is a communist country, youre a traitor. Reporter as students make their position clear. This is our home. Reporter finally, flanked by private security and a police escort, spencer makes his entrance. Despite a few interruptions, he makes his case. Systematic discrimination against white people at all levels of society. Reporter so White Supremacy, he says, requires a white homeland to flourish. There is nothing that can stop an idea whose time has come. And that time is now. Reporter his followers up front cheer while the students sit in stony silence. 90 minutes later, his mission accomplished, spencer takes off, in a fast retreat. Spencer sucks. Spencer sucks. Reporter heimbach isnt as lucky. With no police to protect him, an angry crowd soon descends on him, and he is literally chased down the street. No nazis i crossed a rubicon long ago that im willing to die. And i that might sound stark. That might sound a little scary. Reporter a little dramatic. A little dramatic. Sure. But the fact is, you know, politics can be it can be a war. Reporter a spencer victory . Perhaps, but coming up, antifa strikes back. As neonazis prepare to descend on a small kentucky town. Stay with us. Copd makes it hard to breathe. So to breathe better, i go with anoro. Go your own way copd tries to say, go this way. I say, ill go my own way with anoro. 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So Matt Heimbach sees Fertile Ground for his next big racist rally, and to recruit for his cause of creating a whitesonly homeland. Our strongest area of membership is in appalachia, and in the rust belt. This is an area where people have just been left behind by the economy, where white folks feel that they dont have an advocate. We are preparing for the worst, hoping for the best reporter because of past violence by masked antifa, the Inauguration Day action in washington, and this violent protest in february at the university of california, berkeley, pikeville city manager Donovan Blackburn is worried. The counterprotesters and the antifa are the groups that im concerned about. Reporter the city passes an order banning masks and hoods. And blackburn urges downtown shops to close. Its now the evening before, the typically bustling friday night streets are abandoned. We would have a front row seat to it, if we chose to. But we want to get out of the way. Reporter several miles away, the neonazis are at that camp up in the mountains, starting their saturday morning. No bagels, but plenty of bullets. Donuts and rifles, thats the american breakfast right there. Reporter theyre unconcerned about their sworn enemies. These are trust fund kids, these are heroinaddicted, noodlearmed, skinny, you know, [ bleep ]. Reporter most are well armed. Were prepared to defend ourselves. As you can see, many of us are armed, and were ready. Reporter the morning starts with a lesson on how to wear gas masks. Youre going to close your eyes, and youre going to hold your breath. Reporter and military training on how to stand in formation and march. Its a bit difficult to get with the synchronicity of it all. We want to be like ants. Were a colony and we just go and destroy everything. Reporter then the final touches. Were carrying shields to be able to defend ourselves against their attacks. Reporter the phrase is swedish for enough is enough. Theyre going to be required to stay on one side of the street, and if they attack us, the police should intervene. Reporter Early Saturday Morning down in pikeville, the police chief briefs his men. A lot of unforeseen things could half. Reporter remember those antifa activists Daryl Lamont Jenkins and Lacy Macauley . Theyre pulling into town now in advance of their fellow troops, whom theyve alerted through social media. There could be thunderstorms in the forecast. Theyll just wash away the stink that the nazis bring with them. Reporter laceys concerned that its legal here to openly carry weapons, a right the opposition is proudly exercising. Its a little scary, i dont want to be a martyr or anything. Reporter today, shes embracing the First Amendment, not the second. Extra batteries, black bandana and you know the universal antifascist symbol, three arrows pointing down. Reporter daryl, though, opts for more subtle, sophisticated tactics. He knows antifa actions can turn violent, and he understands it, but he fears its a stain on the movement. Thats whats generating the attention. I dont want that to be the thing that generates attention, but unfortunately, thats what happened. Reporter rather than fight in the street, daryl prefers to fight online. Hes come here to take photos of altright demonstrators, identifying them by name, and s. A process called doxxing. Short for documenting. Why spend all this time . Why hunt these people down . Like, what is your goal . To expose them . Because there are some people out there that dont want to be exposed, and they may pose even a greater threat than anybody that doesnt mind. Reporter Laura Sennett is another seemingly unlikely antifa researcher. Im a mom. I shop at trader joes. Reporter and for years sennett has doxxed along with daryle. When you are looking at posts from a woman who is a Mental Health nurse, and shes talking about how she wishes she could poison all the minority patients that she has in her ward. Yes, her personal information, and those quotes, and those screen shots went out to the public, absolutely. You will not replace us reporter and as two demonstrators at charlottesville last weekend found out, that means consequences. Cole white and peter tefft were both outed online. Since then, white left his job at a california hot dog shop, and teffts own father publicly disowned him, denouncing his sons vile, hateful and racist rhetoric and actions. You want to make sure these these groups dont enter the mainstream . Exactly. Because no ones paying attention to them. And sooner or later, theyre going to be your Police Officers, theyre going to be your politicians. Theyre going to be your teachers. They are going to be people that you cannot touch. And i dont want that to happen. Reporter in pikeville, the showdown is moments away. Police have closed the streets to traffic and are taking their positions. Were all praying for a peaceful demonstration. Reporter will those prayers be answered . You cant get angry, these people are politically confused. Reporter or will hotter heads prevail . Stay with us. Nows the really fun part. Choosing the color, the wheels, the interior, everything exactly how i want it. Heres the thing just because i configured this car online doesnt mean it really exists at a dealership, but with truecar, i get real pricing on actual cars in my area. I see what others paid for them, and they show me the ones that match the car i want, so i know i can go to a truecarcertified dealer and itll be right there waiting for me. Today, right now. This is truecar. Happiness is powerful flea and tick protection from nexgard. A delicious chew that protects for an entire month. Ask your vet for more information. 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The antifa supporters are the first to march into downtown pikeville. Along with signs and noisemakers, theyre prepared with their own medics just in case of trouble. Heimbachs group is more than an hour late. His convoy got lost en route from the mountains after making a wrong right turn. Move it over, form lines, hold formation. Reporter they march straight into a wild cacophony of noise and chants, led by Lacey Macauley on her bullhorn. Get the [ bleep ] out seig heil, seig heil hold it together fascism is about discipline, gentlemen. These people are not worthy of your time. Reporter both sides are armed, some antifa with clubs, White Supremacists with guns. But police are taking no chances. The hundreds of protesters have been restricted to fencedin pens on opposite sides of this downtown square, with a line of Police Officers keeping them apart. Matthew heimbach Matthew Heimbach you cant get angry, these people are politically confused. All right. Thank you, gentlemen. Im going to remember that the rest of my life. Reporter Daryl Jenkins is snapping photos for his doxxing campaign. Hey, how you doing . Reporter one man attempted to reason with the opposition. I know what you mean, man. Ignorant hillbillies, youve said enough. Shut up. Reporter several speakers try to punch through, but the noise is overwhelming. Greetings from the Christian Knights and global crusaders of the ku klux klan. You have been brainwashed. Reporter as tensions rise, demonstrators on each side jump the fences. Police rush to push each back behind their barriers, desperate to keep them separated. There are so many of you, stand behind the wall reporter time up is up on their permit, so heimbachs group heads back to their cars. Thats what you call a victory for us. They tried to shut our event down and they were unable to. Freedom of speech won, baby. Reporter but both sides continue to provoke each other. Youre class traitors, youre national traitors. Reporter now in the closing moments, the police chief fears hes losing control. So he calls in reinforcements, state police in full riot gear. A nervous heimbach pulls out his gun, even cocks it, just in case. When youve got a lot of people that want to kill you, youve got to work and do your best to not get killed. Right . Reporter today, police held the line. Crisis averted. But coming up, heimbach, spencer, macauley and jenkins meet again in charlottesville, virginia, on a day with tragic consequences. The car just plowed through hundreds of people. Reporter and is the commander in chief taking sides . You had a group on the other side that came charging in without a permit, and they were very, very violent. Modern way t. You excited . Its sold out. Dont fret, my friend. I masterpassed it you can use it online and on your phone i masterpassed it. You got the tickets . Onward playing the hero priceless masterpass. The secure way to pay from your bank dont just buy it. Masterpass it. 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Lee sitting in a charlottesville, virginia, park became a touchstone for racial hatred after city officials voted to take it down. Mobs of White Nationalists vowed to defend the statue during that nowinfamous torchlit rally on the university of virginia campus last friday. And then on saturday, responding to a call from Richard Spencer, Matt Heimbach and other White Nationalist leaders, a host of farright groups descend on charlottesville for a rally protesting the removal of that lee statue. This little light of mine reporter and once again, a wide ranging group of counterprotesters, many of them peaceful, gather to confront the forces of intolerance head on. The reality is, the majority of people who go out and protest against hate are not the antifa. Reporter still, antifa does have a strong presence in charlottesville. Lacy macauley is there marching. Armed with only her trusty bullhorn and a flag. And Daryl Lamont Jenkins is doxxing up a storm. Is this guy wearing a hitler shirt . Yes, he is. Im going to take a picture of him. But today, jenkins senses a different type of danger. There is some concern that things can go south really fast. Reporter hes concerned because lately, things have taken a bloody turn. The leftwing shooting of a republican congressman and the fatal rightwing stabbings in oregon allegedly by an altright regular. The suspect pleaded not guilty, denouncing antifa in court. Death to antifa. What you will find is a consistent record of White Supremacists, not only engaging in public protests, which is their right, but how that hatred leads to violence. Reporter now jenkins is worried that lethal force will also erupt in charlottesville. Gunshots. Lets hope not, lets hope not. Im going to be fair with you. Im so concerned that im strapped up myself. Reporter at about 11 00 a. M. , jenkins nemesis, White Nationalist leader Matt Heimbach mobilizes his men in this parking garage. Theyre battleready, armed with shields, sticks. Were doing the lords work. What is there to be nervous about if youre doing the lords work . Reporter heimbachs men take to the streets. Just a day in the park. Shields up reporter ready for the worst. Are you willing to die today . Of course. Reporter as heimbachs group enters the park, clashes have already erupted between the White Nationalists and counterprotesters. Unlike in pikeville, police are unable to keep the two sides apart. As a haze of tear gas fills the streets, all hell breaks loose as both sides, armed with weapons, collide. Three or four people started hitting me with some kind of sticks. Reporter rocks, bottles full of urine and other projectiles fly back and forth. And then this moment, one counterprotester even squares off with White Nationalists using an improvised flame thrower. Finally, local and state police move in, using pepper spray to keep demonstrators at bay. If you do not disperse immediately, you will be arrested. Dont split up. They want us to get hurt reporter the White Nationalist groups are forced to flee the scene, enraging Richard Spencer. This is a Peaceful Assembly and this is what theyre going to do. This is an absolute outrage, well see them in court. Reporter but watch right here as a Peaceful Assembly of White Nationalists mercilessly beat a counterprotester. A little after noon, heimbach and spencer regroup at a nearby park, blaming the other side for the violence. Its a crazed attack. These people are on [ bleep ] drugs, they are [ bleep ] lunatics, not worth getting stabbed over. Reporter and we also see an old poster boy of hate and intolerance, former kkk grand wizard david duke. Just about an hour later at 1 14 p. M. , a surprise attack. The appalling scene that shocked the country. Police say an alleged White Nationalist plows his grey Dodge Challenger into a group of counterprotesters. The driver then reverses and accelerates, sending bodies flying all over the streets as he flees the scene. It hit like two or three other cars, and pinned people in between the cars, smashed into people. Reporter 19 were injured. 32yearold Heather Heyer was killed. Police identify the driver as 20yearold james alex fields jr. , who was caught by our abc cameras before the attack marching with a White Nationalist group. Fields was charged with Second Degree murder and has not yet entered a plea. When we asked Matt Heimbach about the alleged killer in the ranks, he tries to justify it. Its a mans right to defend himself against a mob that is actively cheering to kill you. Youre not going to disassociate yourself from him at all . Not at all. The aftermath of the brutal eruption of violence sparked by White Nationalists. Reporter the repercussions from the event have dominated the news all week, and the president actually igniting an even bigger fire. I think theres blame on both sides and i have no doubt about it. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. Thats a failure to fundamentally understand what the altright, what White Supremacists are all about. That is dangerous. Reporter indeed, even gop leaders thought it was a president ial message of endorsement for White Nationalists. Richard spencer tweeting, im proud of him for speaking the truth. Reporter but to the grieving mother of Heather Heyer, killed in that car attack, trumps words equating her daughter with the kkk and White Supremacists were deeply hurtful. Announcing just this morning that shes refusing to even take the president s call. You cant wash this one away by shaking my hand and saying im sorry. Think before you speak. Reporter next, 20 20 brings together the two lightning rods of the altright and antifa, Richard Spencer and Lacy Macauley. Is there any hope of both sides pulling back from the brink . Youre not going to stop us. 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Later, gary i have a motorcycle wonderful. Im goin up the country, baby dont you wanna go . Im goin up the country, baby dont you wanna go . Geico motorcycle, great rates for great rides. Reporter after months of documenting their fight for a fractured america, we brought White Nationalist richard antif macauley together for an encounter which didnt involve Police Barricades or weapons. Hello, im lacy macaulay. Nice to meet you. I would prefer not to shake your hand. Reporter it doesnt start well. I could smell the antifa activist from yards away. The foul stench of never bathing. Reporter macauley refuses to condemn that infamous punch spencer took on Inauguration Day. But lacey, i got to stop you there. A punch in the face is a punch in the face. Genocide is genocide. Im sorry but, like, i dont think anyone has sympathy for people who are actually actively advocating for policies of genocide. Im not. You would like a white homeland. And to me, that says genocide. People are going to suffer, people are going to die. I have no respect for that mentality. I dont want anyone to die. Reporter spencer blames antifa for most of the violence between the groups, but also insists his people will defend themselves. Were never going to win by unilaterally disarming ourselves. Were going to win when they know that if they punch us, were going to punch them back so hard that they never knew what was coming. Reporter but isnt that excuse me for using the phrase, a bs argument . No. Reporter because if the goal is an allwhite homeland, that is the goal. How do you do that within the laws in the United States . This is a big ideal for the future. Reporter the Southern Poverty Law Center shows us the numbers. Theres a rise in hate crimes and they directly attribute the rise in hate crimes to you specifically. They mention you by name. Okay. Reporter what do you say to that . Thats total [ bleep ] and the splcs total [ bleep ]. What is a hate crime . If anyone on the altright instigated violence, i would dissociate myself with them, totally. Have you then . Antifa is instigating violence constantly and they arent just instigating violence against me, theyre instigating violence against random people in trump hats. When they attack your rights, you fight back. Speech is not violence, and violence is not speech. Reporter well, words are powerful. Words change the world. A word is not a bullet. Reporter while spencer yearns for a white homeland, macauley dreams of an anarchist utopia. You want to deconstruct government, so that you dont i would like to, actually, bring power back to the people. We need to bring power back into our communities and neighborhoods. Good luck. Not if we have any last little breath. Youre not going to stop us. Because you dont matter. Yes, yes. We will stop you. Ultimately, people like me give meaning to your life. You care a lot about me. Guess what . I wouldnt care about you you wouldnt have a life without me. Actually, im sorry, guess what . News flash. I do a lot of work actually. Youre a little small part of this. Reporter and with that the two agree to remain best of enemies. And perhaps it is true that in some way, they feed off of each other for attention. But back in charlottesville, where a young woman died in the streets, a show of unity. A reminder that most political demonstrators are nonviolent and glimmers of hope that maybe we can find a way out. Youll certainly have a lot of thoughts, and we want to hear them. Join our National Conversation on facebook and twitter. Im elizabeth vargas. And im david muir. From all of us at 20 20 and abc news, thanks for watching tonight. Have a good evening. Good night. Breaking news tonight. Four Police Officers have been shot in florida, at least one is dead. Next, the latdest information coming into the its twith the new sleep number 360 smart bed. 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