Transcripts For MSNBCW Dateline 20190526 : vimarsana.com

She wasnt talking at all. Im asking him, like, conrad, what happened here . I was utterly confused. So many different stories about what might have happened. He said many things that night. Maybe someone could have shot something at the house. At one point he said that it was 80 suicide. Police had their own theory. I thought, oh, man, theres something going on here. We dont see a lot of women that commit suicide naked. Conrads stories were not adding up. But Something Else wasnt adding up either. A key piece of evidence. We went to the house, and we walked in and we think, aha would a mistaken measurement send an innocent man to prison . Or free a guilty one . We thought it was over. We thought this was settled. One suspect, so many stories. Only one of them could be true. Somethings going to break, and when it does, the truths going to be known. Im lester holt, and this is dateline. Heres Josh Mankiewicz with as night fell. Reporter they seem so reporter they seem so incongruous, the soaring majesty of utahs wasatch mountains, and the story of a beautiful woman, struck down in her youth. It was a lot of things. Tragic. Crushing. Stunning. But was it an accident . Or a suicide . Or a murder . Police felt they knew, but as most cops will tell you, both the evidence and the jury have their own stories to tell. And the answers not always so clear. Certainly that is true for this story and, quite possibly, for the woman at its heart. Her name . Heidy wagner. As the baby, she was favored. Everybody loved her. She could do no wrong. Reporter autumn was one of heidys four sisters. She was just special. You know, shed walk into the room and shes ready for that good time. Reporter heidy grew up with no fewer than seven older siblings. Tell me about her growing up. She was a funloving girl. She was rather shy, though, so heidy seemed an appropriate name. Reporter heidys mom, janet. The family would get together and we were kind of loud and boisterous sometimes and she kind of got embarrassed easily. Shed hide her face. Reporter as heidy got older, she was still cute and bubbly, but make no mistake. Heidy was no pushover. She was kind of intimidating, actually. For being so small, you wouldnt think so. Reporter at just 20, heidy started working in the not entirely feminine gas and Chemical Industry just outside salt lake city. Sandi sanchez was one of heidys coworkers. We worked with hazardous chemicals and gasses. Crazy things that you wouldnt expect a couple of girls to want to do. Reporter heidy seemed to thrive in a workplace that favored hard hats over heels. It was dangerous if you didnt follow the rules. In fact, quote from heidy, everything is dangerous, its just what will kill you the quickest. Reporter to sandi, heidy became more than a coworker. I considered her my best friend. Shes a person that you knew into never stab you in the back. Shes a person that you knew would always have your back. Reporter in person she could be both, sweet and salty, and that caught the attention of one of her colleagues, 25yearold Conrad Truman. I noticed her first in the hallway. Reporter what did you think . I thought she was cute, and i noticed her hard hat, and they have a little personality or stickers, you know. And hers said, its all about me. Deal with it. I was kind of thinking this girls kind of a feisty girl. Reporter soon conrad asked heidy out on a date. Im not that type usually. I dont get superserious right off the bat, but it was almost like we were inseparable after that. Reporter that first night . Yeah, yeah. Reporter this tough girl even shared conrads interest in guns. We would go to the range out of town and shooting in the hills. Reporter heidy knew how to handle a handgun . Yes. Reporter one year into their courtship, conrad decided to pop the question. In true utah form, he chose a mountain on which to do it. Did she have any idea it was coming . No. So i got on one knee, and i asked her and i started bawling. And she just said yes right off the bat. Reporter conrads sister colette couldnt believe it when her brother first introduced heidy to the family. I was actually really sort of surprised when i first met her, like how did he hand that girl . They just seemed to be such a great match. Reporter you saw love and chemistry there . Oh, it was almost awkward. They were definitely an enviable couple. Reporter another year later came the wedding. It was amazing. We went up on a lift, a chair lift, then all of the guests left down these slides. So it was just so them. They said their vows, and hes kind of doing this champion pose like he was just everything was right with the world. Reporter the enviable couple was just starting out with a future as bright as their smiles. Until, that is, a sunday evening in september 2012, three years after the trumans were married. Tell me about that day. That day was like, just like any other day. Reporter as night fell, heidy decided to take a bath. Conrad said he went to the kitchen to get something to eat. As he fixed himself a sandwich, he said he heard a noise coming from the direction of the bathroom. It was like the new years poppers or the halloween poppers where you can pull two strings or you can pull one and confetti and stuff comes out. Reporter thats when conrad said he turned and saw heidy standing there in the hallway naked. She wasnt talking. She wasnt talking at all. She was coughing, she was heaving. Reporter and she was bleeding . She was bleeding out of her mouth and her nose. I needed to call 911 immediately. 911, what city is your emergency . Reporter an unimaginably shocking scene. Heidy on the Kitchen Floor in a pool of her own blood. Conrad on the phone pleading for help. Theres so much blood. If you dont get here right now, shes going to die. I dont know what happened. I really dont know what happened. Oh, my god. It was bad to begin with and it got so much worse. Reporter as you will learn, truer words may never have been spoken. What had happened in that house . When we return im asking him, conrad, whats going on . He said, i dont know what happened. Everything was just different answers and different theories, different little things. A search for answers and a race to save heidy. This is not happening. This is really not happening. T the only fdaapproved 3in1 copd treatment. Trelegy. The power of 123. Trelegy 123 trelegy. With trelegy and the power of 1 2 3, im breathing better. Trelegy works 3 ways to. Open airways,. Keep them open. And reduce inflammation. For 24 hours of better breathing. Trelegy wont replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. Trelegy is not for asthma. Tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high Blood Pressure before taking it. Do not take trelegy more than prescribed. 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Something was wrong at the truman house. She came out of the shower, and i heard a pop, and theres blood and shes in blood i have officers and paramedics on the way. Okay . Reporter the 911 call came into the orem, utah, Police Department at about 11 00 p. M. That september night back in 2012. We got a call of a gunshot wound or some sort of injury. Reporter sergeant bill crook went to the truman home. So we all kind of rushed to our cars and headed that direction with lights and sirens. Reporter on the other end of the phone was conrad, kneeling on his Kitchen Floor covered in blood and consumed by panic. It was devastating. It was a nightmare. You cant even explain it. Reporter with one hand he held the phone. With the other, his bleeding wife. It was so hard. When its your loved one like that. I had no i just did the best i could to try to keep her breathing. Reporter by then, conrad said he realized heidy had been shot in the head. When you went to heidy, did you see a gun . No. Reporter he remembered the pop he had heard and wondered if a stray bullet might have come through the bathroom window and hit heidy. I was trying to think of the noise and how it wasnt very lou and, you know, maybe someone could have shot something at the house. Reporter it seemed farfetched but he said neighborhood vandals had recently been shooting the back of his house with paint balls. I was utterly confused. Reporter within minutes, sergeant crook arrived. Conrad by now had moved to the doorway of his home to wave crook down. He had blood on his hands and he was screaming and shrieking. Reporter conrad led the sergeant through the front door, up the stairs, and then into a scene straight from a horror movie. I could see heidy laying there. She was naked, blood everywhere, just right at the top of the stairs, just this horrific scene. Reporter whats conrad doing . Hes screaming and hes yelling. Reporter and, as these Police Photos make clear, covered in blood. Im asking him, like, conrad, whats going on . What happened here . He said, she was in the bathroom, you know, and just, i dont know what happened. Everything was just different answers and different theories, different little things. Reporter right away crook went to check one of those theories, a stray bullet perhaps coming through the bathroom window. The window was closed but theres no bullet hole. Reporter nothing to indicate that anybody fired a shot. Thats correct. Reporter crook returned to the kitchen, and thats when he discovered a gun lying on the Kitchen Floor. What did you think had happened . Honestly, i didnt know. Reporter was this an accident . An attempted suicide . Or something far more sinister . At least for now, those answers would have to wait. Heidy was clinging to life. My focus at that time was, honestly, was to help heidy. Reporter paramedics took heidy to a nearby hospital. Conrad followed in a police cruiser. A dash cam recorded the absolute desperation in his voice. This is not happening. This is really not happening. I really dont understand any of this. This is so crazy. Reporter about an hour after conrad arrived, hospital staff delivered the devastating news. Heidy Wagner Truman could not be saved. It was pain, it was misery. It was why, how . Reporter in a neighboring town heidys mother janet would soon agonize over those very same questions. It was after midnight when two Police Officers came to her door. What must that be like . The most horrendous thing ever. And i would never want anybody to have to feel that and that pain, that agony of knowing that your daughter, for whatever reason, is dead. Is gone. Reporter the officers wouldnt give janet any details. Only where her daughter had been taken. Im driving down to the hospital, and i make a comment to my daughter. I go, you know, autumn, as hard as it is that we lost heidy, were going to have to be supporting conrad because he must be overwhelmed with grief. Reporter conrads sister colette was thinking the same thing as she raced to the hospital. What kind of condition was your brother in then . He was just a total wreck, just absolutely hysterical. Didnt know how it could have happened. Reporter no one did. But back at the truman home, sergeant crook had started analyzing the evidence and was already developing a theory. I thought, oh, man, theres something going on here. Reporter you got a feeling . I got a feeling, yes. It wasnt just me. Everybody was kind of looking around like theres something wrong here. We need a detective. Coming up was it an accident . Suicide . We dont see a lot of women who commit suicide naked. Or Something Else . I felt like they thought i did something. At comcast, we didnt build the nations largest gigspeed network just to make businesses run faster. We built it to help them go beyond. Because beyond risk. Welcome to the neighborhood, guys. There is reward. Beyond work and life. Who else could he be . There is the moment. Beyond technology. There is human ingenuity. Every day, comcast business is helping businesses go beyond the expected, to do the extraordinary. Take your business beyond. Do any of you know captand here we go. [ good to be alive by andy grammer ] its snowtime baby. [ screaming ] oh, snowball. Uh, is he ok . Not in any way no. Take that ok. You were just beaten by a rabbit. You dont even know it. [ ding ] oh, my pizza rolls. As the sun inched above utahs wasatch mountains, questions swirled at their base. How did heidy truman wind up on her Kitchen Floor shot in the head . For sure, police were wondering about her husband. After all, Conrad Truman was in the house when heidy was shot, and there was no evidence of an intruder. I felt like they thought i did something. Reporter soon after he arrived at the scene, sergeant bill crook did begin to have his suspicions. Were telling him, conrad, back off. The paramedics are here. Back off. And he wouldnt. Reporter he was what, moving around . Yes. Reporter keeping paramedics from being at the body . Yes, sir. Reporter there were other scenarios that needed to be explored, like accident and suicide. Thats where detective tom wallace came in. There had been a number of theories. We obviously are going to exhaust them. Thats going to happen. Reporter the medical examiner didnt make wallaces job any easier. His preliminary finding heidys manner of death could not be determined. So wallace tackled each theory one by one. Accident seemed hard to believe. Thanks to conrad, heidy had firearms experience. Can you think of any way it could have been an accident . No. Heidy wouldnt have been so careless. Reporter so what about suicide . Shes completely naked. We dont see a lot of women that commit suicide naked. Thats not common. Reporter did you find anybody that heidy had spoken to about suicide or about being depressed . No. Reporter neither heidys mother janet nor her sister autumn could imagine heidy even thinking about taking her own life. Heidy would never do that. In fact, heidy was against that. She had a friend who committed suicide, and she thought it was selfish and, in her words, dumb. Reporter heidy ever tell you she was depressed . No. Reporter ever act depressed . No. She was probably one of my happiest, most upbeat kids. Reporter that left wallace with homicide, and it put conrad back in the police crosshairs. Wallace decided to speak to the officers first on the scene about their experience with conrad. Everyone felt his behavior was odd. Hes yelling, but its a violent yelling. Hes like, if you dont save her, im going to [ bleep ] kill you. Reporter crook found those threats so alarming, he took out his phone to record them. Youre gonna [ bleep ] die and everyone in your life is going to die if she dies. It could be the way this guy reacts to trauma, but im telling you it was a red flag at the time. Reporter also a red flag conrad was drunk. He admitted he and heidy had been drinking earlier that night. I could see in his eyes, the redness. Reporter red flag number three. Conrad told crook he and heidy had been arguing. A minor dustup, he said. No big deal. But enough for heidy to draw a bath and ask to be left alone. She went and locked herself in the bathroom. And then he details how he picked the lock and went in the bathroom. And then she kicked him out. To me, thats another its just more proof of there was an argument, a bigger argument. Reporter as for the location of the gun itself, that, too, was suspicious. That guns how far from heidy . Oh, i would say eight feet, ten feet maybe. Its far enough away that it wasnt a normal if she shoots herself and falls to the ground type of thing. Reporter next morning they ask conrad to come to the station for more questioning. They can say whatever they want. But i did not hurt my wife. And i know that. Bottom of my heart, i did not hurt my wife. Reporter heidys family thought otherwise. After finally learning from police the details of how heidy died. The minute i heard how she died, i knew he did it. Sounds like he had a temper, and he was very intoxicated, and he did something that perhaps he didnt plan . I just knew he did it. Reporter detective wallace next pored over conrads statements to police about what happened that night. As wallace saw it, conrads story went like this conrad was in the kitchen. Heidy was in the bathroom. At some point conrad heard a pop, and when he turned, he saw heidy standing somewhere between the kitchen and the bathroom hallway bleeding. And he either runs over and catches her or she falls down. Reporter wallace then went back to the truman home, making detailed measurements of the kitchen and surrounding rooms. He wanted to see if conrads story checked out. His conclusion it did not. Her bodys at the top of the staircase. It doesnt add up that she would have traveled that distance he said she had gone then fallen in that location. Reporter it was hard for wallace to believe that heidy could have traveled from the bathroom to the stairs after sustaining such a head wound. She would have fallen immediately to the ground. Reporter wallace shared his findings with assistant District Attorney craig johnson. Johnson agreed. Everything pointed to conrad. Why would Conrad Truman want to kill his wife . Under the circumstances, id say the motive was just based on this heat of passion argument that they were having. Alcohol, a fight and guns, thats where we got murder. Reporter at the same time johnson was still reluctant to press charges. Remember, the states own medical examiner couldnt say whether heidys death was a homicide. And johnson knew that would be a huge hurdle in court. Based on my experience in courts with juries, a medical examiner carries a lot of weight. Reporter so johnson and wallace showed the m. E. A 96page power point presentation of all their evidence including those measurements, hoping something would sway him. The presentation worked. The medical examiner changed his ruling to homicide. It sounds like one of the things that got the medical examiner to move from inconclusive to homicide was the measurements of the crime scene suggested that her body was too far from where mr. Truman said shed been shot. Exactly. Reporter so after a tenmonth investigation, the orem p. D. And the d. A. s office arrested truman and charged him with murder. My mom called me and i fell to the ground crying and so happy that he was finally behind bars. Reporter going into trial, what did you think . I thought we had a strong circumstantial case. Reporter at trial the prosecution argued Domestic Violence ending in homicide. The defense, selfinflicted gunshot wound. The jury sided with the state. Conrad truman was convicted of heidys murder. It was like, finally got him. Finally got him. Reporter and as far as you knew, that was it . That was it. Reporter did you think that was it . I did. Reporter but if you think that was it, well then you havent been watching enough dateline. Coming up heidys heartbreak. She did not know her dad, and she had always wanted that. That really bothered her. And Conrad Trumans hope. This is going to work out. It has to because i didnt do this. I had a heart problem. I was told to begin my aspirin regimen, and i just didnt listen. Until i almost lost my life. My doctors again ordered me to take aspirin, and i do. Be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. Listen to the doctor. Take it seriously. Audible members know listening has the power to change us make us better parents, better leaders, better people. And theres no better place to listen than audible. With audible you get a credit good for any audiobook and exclusive fitness and wellness programs. And now, youll also get two Audible Originals titles exclusively produced for audible. Automatically roll your credits over to the next month if you dont use them, and if you dont like a book just swap it for free. Enjoy 100 ad free listening in the car, on your phone or any connected device. And when you switch a device pick up right where you left off. With our commitment free guarantee, theres never been a better time to start listening to audible. The most inspiring minds, the most compelling stories, the best place to listen. To start your free 30day trial, text listen27 to 500500 today. Audible members know listening has the power to change us make us better parents, better leaders, better people. And theres no better place to listen than audible. With audible you get a credit good for any audiobook and exclusive fitness and wellness programs. And now, youll also get two Audible Originals titles exclusively produced for audible. Automatically roll your credits over to the next month if you dont use them, and if you dont like a book just swap it for free. Enjoy 100 ad free listening in the car, on your phone or any connected device. And when you switch a device pick up right where you left off. With our commitment free guarantee, theres never been a better time to start listening to audible. The most inspiring minds, the most compelling stories, the best place to listen. To start your free 30day trial, text listen5 to 500500 today. Just more than two years after his wife heidys death, Conrad Truman stood convicted of her murder. He was looking down the barrel of a life sentence when he returned to a utah courtroom to learn his punishment. This is the moment where some convicted killers ask for mercy because of their difficult lives or tell the court theyve been misunderstood. And sometimes, of course, they dont speak at all. But not Conrad Truman. Listen to me, please. I cant say sorry for something i did not do. I understood speaking out would make it way worse, that i was like i dont know. I was like to hell with this. I need to speak my mind. I didnt kill my wife. Theres just no way. If there was proof and i didnt. Thats why there is no proof. You know, this is just a big injustice. Reporter the judge had heard that before. The sentence he imposed . 16 years to life. Crushing for conrad and his family sitting behind him including sister colette. You want to believe that things turn out the way that theyre supposed to. And thats just not always the case. Reporter in prison conrad did what many do he retraced the steps that led him there. And he thought a lot about the night heidy died. As conrad saw it, the police rush to judgment began precisely when officers first rushed through his front door. This guys drinking, theres firearms in the house. So he must have shot her. Reporter why couldnt it be exactly that simple . This wouldnt be the first time that mixing alcohol, an argument and a handgun led straight to a prison sentence. Conrad told us what he told police. It isnt that simple. Sure, he and heidy had been drinking and, yes, they had been arguing, but he said neither was an explanation for what happened. I could have upset her with some of the things ive said or the way i acted with not being attentive, you know, to her. I know i do that sometimes when i drink. I dont pay a lot of attention. You know . Reporter this still doesnt seem like grounds for a gigantic fight. No. It got to the point where i think she was i upset her. I was really i just know she went to go take a bath. Reporter which is what she did when she was a little irritated . Yes. Reporter conrad also shared with us how he picked the bathroom lock, not, he said, to confront heidy, but just to apologize. She just said get out. I was like, okay. So i just let her be. Reporter as for conrads behavior after Police Arrived at his door, he said he had good reason for acting that way. I was trying to save my wife. I dont know. Does that make sense . I just wanted her to live. Reporter i get how frantic you must have been. Im not sure i understand the threatening part of that. And i think thats one of the things that ended up getting you in trouble. Could be. And i was like, do i have to how do i explain this to you guys . Get her help. And when you cant explain that to someone, i just started i started making threats. Reporter well, if all thats true, then why and how did heidy wind up with a bullet in her head . I think police found it hard to believe that you could be right there with her in a very small area mmhmm. Reporter and shes shot, and you dont know what happened. Yeah. Maybe in their heads. In mine, i was confused. Reporter could this be an accident . What i say to that is i didnt see. I dont know what happened. Reporter thats how he felt just hours after the shooting, but as the months passed, conrad came to the conclusion heidy may have taken her own life. His wife, he said, wasnt as tough as she appeared. Was she a sad person . Was she a depressed person . When she drank a little bit, you could see it come out. It wasnt every time. But it did. Reporter heidys friend Sandi Sanchez also saw another side to heidy. That strong, funny, you know, person also had some things inside that were very painful. Reporter according to sandi, those things had to do with heidys upbringing. Most significantly, heidy grew up not knowing the identity of her father. That really bothered her. You know, she did not know her dad. And she had always wanted that. It bugged her tremendously. Reporter enough to take her own life . Had she ever attempted suicide before . Never to my knowledge, no. Reporter she never talked about it. No. Reporter its very hard to believe that what was going on in heidys life at the time, what seemed like a pretty happy marriage to you, shes going to spur of the moment decide to commit suicide like that . Well, thats a tough question. Its like how do you really know when someones going to do that, you know . Reporter as he lived his life behind bars, conrad continued to speculate. He also tried to stay hopeful. I was just like, this is going to work out. It has to because i didnt i didnt do this. Reporter conrads family never gave up on him. So they scraped together the money to hire conrad some new attorneys. Mark and annie looked into the case. To them it was immediately apparent that there were a lot of problems. Reporter mark moffat and Ann Taliaferro were those attorneys. One of the first things they did was visit the scene of the crime. We went to the house, and we walked in and we think, aha. Within moments of being in that home, we knew immediately that there was a huge problem. Reporter not a problem for them. More for the people who had put Conrad Truman away. Coming up is an innocent man in jail for someones mistake in math . I remember thinking, well, thats strange. That couldnt be right. Ow your only activia has billions of our live and active probiotics. A delicious way to enjoy probiotics every day. With 20 years of devotion to gut health. Activia. Like no other. Born to be wild moves like these need pampers cruisers 360 fit with an ultrastretchy waistband and a 360 fit that adapts to every wild move plus up to 12 hours of protection so anything your wild child does. Cruisers can too our best ever fit is new cruisers 360 fit born to be wild each day justin at work. Walk. And after work. He does it all with dr. Scholls. Only dr. Scholls has massaging gel insoles that provide allday comfort. To keep him feeling more energized. Dr. Scholls. Born to move. With licensed agents available 24 7. Its not just easy. Its havingawalrusingoal easy roooaaaar its a walrus ridiculous yes nice save, big guy good job duncan way to go [chanting] its not just easy. Its geico easy. Oh, duncan. Stay up. No sleepies. Its geico easy. What sore muscles . What with advpounding head . Advil is. Relief thats fast. Strength that lasts. Youll ask. What pain . With advil. While Conrad Truman sat in a Utah State Prison marking time, his sister colette searched endlessly for ways to get him out. Was there a time when you or anybody else in your family thought maybe we dont know him as well as we thought we did . No. Reporter he couldnt have killed her . Not possible. Reporter so much about Conrad Trumans trial bothered his sister colette. But one detail in particular kept gnawing at her. It had to do with the diagrams used by the state depicting the area where heidys body was found. I remember thinking, well, thats strange. Thats that couldnt be right. Reporter postverdict, colette shared her concerns with conrads new attorneys, mark moffat and Ann Taliaferro. They decided to visit the truman home to see for themselves if the states diagrams were accurate. We later made that same trip with moffat who showed us what they discovered. This is the area in question, and its pretty small. It is. Its really small. We immediately started measuring, and we knew right away that there was a big problem with their diagrams and the measurements. Reporter the problem . All those measurements were off. Instead of 139 inches, somebody took the figure 139 and interpreted it to be 13. 9 feet. 33 inches became 3. 3 feet. And on and on and on. Reporter according to moffat, those flawed measurements, which were used in court, made the house appear much bigger than it was. They used the theme of distance to argue that mr. Truman was lying about where he said his wife was when he heard what turned out to be this fatal shot. Reporter at trial, the prosecution argued, to believe conrad, youd have to believe heidy shot herself in the bathroom and then walked 12 feet before falling to the floor. And, according to the medical examiner, that was impossible. He testified heidys head wound was so severe that she could have at most walked a step or two. This issue of distance was this big issue. Reporter now for Ann Taliaferro, just seeing the house and how small it was was proof enough that the prosecutions argument didnt hold up. When you walk in the house, theres no way that theres even 12 feet there. Reporter whats more, according to the defense team, conrad never told the police heidy shot herself in the bathroom. Instead he told them he had no idea where she was when he heard the shot. Tell me your theory of what happened here. We believe that heidy truman shot herself in this very area, and we believe that she fell right in the area directly in front of me on the ground, and thats the very area where she was found when Law Enforcement entered the home that night. Reporter which they also said was completely consistent with the m. E. s testimony that heidy would have fallen after only a step or two. She would have gone to the ground immediately. Reporter your argument is she did fall down. Exactly reporter and she fell right about here. Yes. Thats exactly what our argument is. Reporter according to moffat, this was not a simple mistake. Is this just a case of a smalltown Police Department making incorrect measurements or adding up some figures wrong . I dont believe so. I believe that they willfully lied to secure a conviction against Conrad Truman. Reporter and for these attorneys, there were more issues with the states case. One had to do with gunshot residue tests. The defense Learned Police swabbed both heidy and conrads hands, but those swabs were never sent to the lab. When you have gunshot residue that was never tested, those things matter. Reporter the defense team decided to test those swabs themselves. Conrads hands were negative for residue, but there was a question as to whether conrad had washed his hands before they were tested. So those results were meaningless. Thats probably why they didnt test in first place. Reporter as for heidys swabs, there was no residue on her left hand. But there was on her right hand. And significantly, heidy was righthanded. When you have gunshot residue in a location and in a quantity that is absolutely consistent with her firing a semiautomatic weapon, one of the possibilities is that she fired a gun. You cant discount that. Reporter the deeper moffat and taliaferro got into the case, the more it seemed to them heidys fatal wound was selfinflicted. They believe the head wound, a contact wound, ruled out homicide. A contact gunshot wound to the right temple are the most common site of selfinflicted gunshot wound that there were. Reporter moffat and taliaferro decided to take their findings to the m. E. Hoping to sway his ruling on the manner of death once again just as police did prior to conrads arrest. We gave him a bunch of information, then he, on his own, with his investigator, went to the home to look at it. Reporter and the result was just what theyd asked for. Heidy trumans manner of death, once undetermined, then a homicide, was now officially, once again, undetermined. It was manna from forensic heaven. How often do medical examiners change their findings and then change them back . Ive never had a case where this has happened ever. Reporter it took another year, but Conrad Trumans conviction was overturned, and he was granted a new trial. I never even thought that was even a possibility for the medical examiner to change. I never would have thought that. Reporter is there part of the things about i cant get my hopes up . Yeah, thats exactly how i felt. I was beyond happy. We were just absolutely over the moon. Reporter for heidys family, it was just the opposite. We couldnt believe it. Reporter you thought this was over . We thought it was over. We thought this was settled. That was a hard, hard moment. We hated it. We just thought, so what are they going to come up with this time . Reporter and we know thats what youre thinking, too. Coming up a new trial, a new jury, a different verdict . There was enough there there beyond reasonable doubt. Why would things work out if it didnt work out the first time . Seresto. Jake. Seresto, seresto, seresto. Whatever your dog brings home to you, it shouldnt be fleas and ticks. 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The secret life of pets 2 i have one kid in each branch of the military. When i have a child deployed, having a Reliable Network means everything. vo the network more people rely on, gives you more. Like a special price for military families and big savings when you switch. Thats verizon. Termites, were on the move. 24 7. Roger. Hey rick, all good . Oh yeah, were good. Were good. Termites never stop trying to get in, we never stop working to keep them out. Terminix. Defenders of home. Conrad truman had been convicted of murder, sentenced to life and had already served more than three years. Now, the revelation of those Flawed Police measurements had led to Conrad Trumans new trial. That stunned everyone in the utah county d. A. s office. Especially the man responsible for conrads conviction. Prosecutor craig johnson. This is something that really took us by surprise. Reporter the defense says you had to have known. Well, thats their take, and theyre doing their job to zealously represent their client, but i can tell you categorically that thats not correct. Reporter just as stunned was the man whose team took the measurements, lead detective tom wallace. What went wrong . Howd that happen . In the process of transposing numbers from actual measurements at the scene to the crime scene program, numbers were just transposed wrong. Reporter wallace admits the error but says it was minor, that Conrad Truman did not deserve a new trial. Its not that significant as they made it out to be. Reporter did those incorrectly entered measurements change your opinion of Conrad Trumans guilt . Should they change anyones opinion . They didnt change my opinion. Reporter nor did it change the opinion of the deputy District Attorney, tim taylor, who decided to take on the task himself of prosecuting conrad once again. I think craig had been into the case for a long time, so i wanted fresh eyes. So i went through all the evidence. And even with the medical examiner changing his opinion, i still felt that there was enough to go forward. But we knew going into it, it was going to be tough. Reporter at trial the prosecutions case was familiar. Starting with the officers who testified about conrads rambling often incoherent description of what had happened that night. The core of our case were his inconsistent statements. The story was hard to follow. It was jumping around all over. It wasnt making sense to me. So it was hard to follow. Reporter those officers also told the jury about conrads threats. He was telling us that we were going too slow and we needed to hurry up or he was going to kill us. Ill [ bleep ] kill you if you dont save her life. If you are making these violent threats to people who are there trying to help your wife, how are you treating your wife when its only you and her alone . Reporter taylor then tackled the theory of suicide by calling witnesses to testify heidy was not suicidal. In your experience as heidys mother, was she a sad or depressed person . No. I didnt see her that way. Reporter did heidys not knowing her father or not knowing who he was, did that make her depressed or sad . No, no. Reporter the prosecutor pointed out, conrads story evolved over time. Immediately following the shooting on the way to the hospital. Conrad insisted hide wee never commit suicide. I think something shot her or something. Because she would never shoot herself. Shed never shoot herself. Reporter taylor argued it was only later after suspicion against conrad had mounted that he changed his tune. As for the gunshot residue on heidys right hand, taylor called an expert to say it proved nothing. Nobody can identify a shooter based on the results of this test. That is a major limitation of this test. Reporter defense attorney mark moffat answered by telling the jury that, before being allowed to wash his hands that night, conrad had pleaded with police to confirm he had no residue on them. Hes telling them, test my hands. Test my hands. I didnt shoot a gun. Reporter did you wash your hands before saying that to police . No, i absolutely not. I never washed my hands until they said, go wash your hands. Reporter conrads attorneys were working hard to establish reasonable doubt, and the state medical examiners shifting opinion on heidys manner of death only helped them. Thats your case right there. You would think. Reporter i mean, if he has reasonable doubt, hard to argue a jury shouldnt. Exactly. Reporter the medical examiner told the jury that in the final analysis, he didnt know the manner of heidy trumans death. I finalized the autopsy report with the cause of death as gunshot wound and the manner of death as could not be determined. Reporter the m. E. Also testified how, in his experience, a contact wouldnt like heidys is rare in homicide cases. With the contact gunshot wound, it would be consistent with a wound thats selfinflicted. Reporter after 15 days of testimony, the jury began deliberations. So you felt pretty good leading up to verdict . Yes. There was enough there there beyond a reasonable doubt. Reporter conrad was having a much harder time. It was really difficult. You know . Because why would things work out if they didnt work out the first time . You know what i mean . Reporter eight hours later, the verdict. Hold up your hands. Youre not wearing handcuffs. No cuffs. Reporter youre not in custody. Im free. Reporter thats right. This time Conrad Truman got the verdict he wanted. Not guilty. I just kept saying did they say not . He grabbed my arm. Are you sure . Reporter in the courtroom, conrads family shared tears of joy. I was giggling and crying at the same time. It was weird. Reporter on the other side of the courtroom aisle were tears of a different kind. I felt my heart sink and i just was in shock. Reporter you fainted . I did. I couldnt believe there was a situation where that long shot happened, where he would be freed. Reporter juror Brian Christenson said he and his fellow jurors had no choice but to set conrad free. I believe that we all pretty much felt that he probably did it. Reporter but you voted to acquit. We voted to acquit. Reporter because you had reasonable doubt . We had reasonable doubt. Reporter whether you believe mr. Truman is innocent or not, those measurements either put an innocent man in prison or let a guilty man go free. Well, so youre right. But my opinion hasnt changed. Do i think he got away with murder . Yeah, i do. Reporter whats it like to have your work called into question in a way that frees the guy you helped to convict . Its that a measurement thats inconsequential actually ended up freeing him. Reporter whats life been like for your family since then . Were trying to put the pieces together. Reporter for heidys family, that is easier said than done. I miss the things that we had together. I miss the simple conversations. I miss her sassiness. I miss her wonderful personality. She lives on forever in our hearts. Reporter conrad is left looking both backward and forward. I mean, id do anything to take another day, another walk with her. I loved her. And i do love her still. Reporter you got a lot of life left, a lot. How are you going to live it . To the best of my abilities. Reporter there are jurors who think he might have done it but i had reasonable doubt, i couldnt vote to convict. Well, god bless them. Theres a lot of people who do believe in me. Reporter hes made his own peace with a simple truth the very thing that freed him, reasonable doubt, could also shadow Conrad Truman for the rest of his life. Thats all for this edition of dateline. Im craig melvin. And im natalie morales. And this is dateline. Marie was a very loving person. She had a heart of gold. Reporter what happened to this woman . My job is to be a truth teller and seek out the truth. I wanted to solve it reporter her case was a mystery for years. The mom with the tender heart and toughasnails career. She was part of the sheriffs department. Her ultimate goal was to try to get into the fbi. Reporter shed found a new sense of purpose in the church. Her pastor and his wife, like family