Transcripts For MSNBCW Dateline 20200307 : vimarsana.com

Reporter grieving alongside his family, his girlfriend. She sent messages of condolences, we all need to be strong together. She gave me a lot of support. Just, there for me when i needed her. Reporter but was there something about these two, that no one knew . What are you seeing . A series of messages. I had to read them a couple of times to really sort of take it all in. Utterly shocking. Reporter a trail of Text Messages leading to the darkest of discoveries. Keeping all the lies straight is difficult. She did it masterfully. Thats not normal. I closed my eyes and i said, this is not real. Reporter now, a new twist, in a story every parent needs to see. We need to know whats going on in our kids lives. cause it can be very scary when we dont. Reporter tonight, the latest on a story of teens, Text Messages, and a complicated search for the truth. One time, the teenager vanished. Turns out, conrad had a dark secret, one he shared with someone close to him. What that confidant did and did not do next would shatter two families. Here is Andrea Canning with reckless. It began as a chance encounter between two teens on vacation. She was a family friend. And ended two years later with one of them dead. He was smiling before he left the house. Then he was dead a few hours after. Reporter an apparent suicide. He didnt seem like he was in imminent danger . No, not at all. Reporter but there was danger from something teens do all the time. Texting. Their cyber romance hit a nerve, gripping the nation. The people involved in the case gave us the inside story. Youre watching her . Yes. It just keeps getting worse. Reporter a grieving father. I feel like i can fix a lot of things but i couldnt fix my son. Reporter and distraught family members who feel betrayed. I would like her just to know. Hi, this is conrad. Reporter our story starts with conrad. His mother lynne roy says he was an easy child. What kind of kid was he . Definitely sensitive. Never gave me a hard time with anything. Did well in school, had friends, loved baseball. Reporter conrad was her first born. Two daughters would come later. Looking back, she remembers his early years as good ones. Every picture i have of him, he looks like a little goof ball. Reporter he grew up in massachusetts where his father and grandfather ran a tugboat and barge business. His sad days he was destined to take to the sea from day one. He was two or three days old when i brought him on the tugboat. I wanted him to follow in my footsteps. I was hoping he would take over the business some day. Reporter not only was conrad the first born in the roy family, he was also the first grandchild. His aunt krissy roy says his cousins adored him. My youngest, henry, would follow him around like a duck. He was the cousin that all of the kids looked up to. Reporter but during his sophomore year in high school, his mom says her happy go lucky son started to change. His father and i got divorced. I dont know one child that doesnt get affected by divorce. Reporter he was 16 at the time . Yes. Its going through the hormones. He obviously had anxiety and depression. It just manifested at that time. Reporter he talked about it in this video diary. I feel like theres something wrong with me. Reporter at 16, while struggling with anxiety and depression, conrad encountered a 15yearold girl named Michelle Carter. They met when they went to florida to visit family. This was supposed to be r r . Yep. A week during school vacation. Their grandparents were friend with our great aunt. It was like, oh, my brother met a girl and the three of them hung out with her for just a short while. Reporter when they returned from florida, conrad and michelle continued to stay in touch through Text Messages. Michelle lived in plainville, massachusetts, about an hour away from conrad. The two had a lot of in common. She was a softball player. He played baseball. Friends described both of them as quiet and funny. And even though the two communicated regularly, conrads aunt becky says he never mentioned michelle. He had other girlfriends. She was not someone he talked about. Reporter apparently he kept a lot to himself. By the time he was 17, he had checked in psychiatric facilities a few times, suffering from deep depression. His mom says one day he attempted suicide by swallowing a bottle of cough syrup. He felt bad. I said, conrad, you have no idea how much you are loved. And appreciated. But he swore after that he would never attempt suicide again. Reporter and things did seem to be getting better. A year later, by june 2014, conrad had graduated from high school, gotten a scholarship to college, and earned his captains license. That must have been a really big day. It was. I was very proud of him. Reporter are you feeling good about the place that hes in . I felt that he was still like struggling. But i felt very very positive that he wasnt going to do anything to harm himself. Reporter it was right around this time when conrad recorded that private video sharing his innermost thoughts. I feel like i still have a long way to go to recover from this social anxiety, feeling of insecurity. If i keep talking, keep talking, its going to get better. Reporter on july 12th, conrad headed to the beach with his mom and two sisters. Lynn vividly remembers walking the shoreline with her son. He seemed in good spirits that day. We talked about school and hes like, im not sure where i am right now in my head. I said, well, you just got your captains license, you dont have to worry about anything right now. Reporter hes looking toward the future . Yeah. Reporter when they returned from the beach, conrad drove his sisters to get ice cream. He was laughing. I said something and he was like smiling. Reporter conrad told his mom he was going to his friends house and wouldnt be back for dinner. Later that night, lynn says out of the blue her daughter got a text message from someone quite unexpected. It was around 10 30 that night. Michelle carter is asking where conrad is. And theyre boyfriend and girlfriend now. Reporter this was news to lynn. She knew conrad and michelle had only seen each other in person a few times. The next morning, lynn woke up at 5 00 a. M. And noticed conrad wasnt home. She called around and drove by his friends house but couldnt find him. Conrad was missing. A son disappears. A mom worries. And a dad receives a troubling clue. Coming up a family friend said they saw his truck with caution tape around it. Reporter the news is about to go from bad to worse. Are you sure . I was like, what are you talking about . Reporter word spread frontline plus. Trusted by vets for nearly 20 years. Frontline plus. And thats not a tissue. Protection. Lysol spray kills over 100 illness causing germs, even this seasons most common flu strains. 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Reporter word spread quickly, conrad roy iii was missing. His family and friends, growing more frantic by the hour, searched everywhere for him. By midmorning, his mom decided to call 911. Hi, i have to report um my son missing. Reporter that evening, about 24 hours after conrad left his house, his father got a call. A family friend, said they saw his truck at kmart with caution tape around it. Reporter so you go down there to kmart. Uhhuh. And i think the police, you know, told my father that he was gone. Reporter an officer found conrad dead behind the wheel of his pickup truck. His dad called lynn to tell her the awful news. I couldnt even see. I was, like, felt like i was drugged. I couldnt i couldnt eat. Slept in the same clothes for days. The most horrible time in my life. Reporter the rest of conrads family was in disbelief. I was like are you sure . Like, what are you talking about . I just saw him. Just felt like all the blood just drained out of your body to hear that kind of news. Reporter detective scott gordon of the Fairhaven Police department was assigned to the case. His First Impression was suicide by Carbon Monoxide. It was apparent that he placed a water pump in the rear of his truck. And eventually, he passed away as a result of Carbon Monoxide from that. Reporter to those who knew conrad best, it didnt make sense. Had they missed something . Conrad had been getting help, taking medication and seemed hopeful about his future. His grandmother remembered him using that very pump to help out his dad just days before. I can still see that smile on his face. The this little smirky smile that he always had. Reporter and his father recalled the two of them working on a job together a week earlier, setting up fireworks on a barge. We were like, laughing. Were watchin fireworks. He seemed fine. Like when i left, um, the last thing i said to him was, i love you. And he said, i love you, back. Reporter so his family wondered what pushed him over the edge. As they struggled with their grief, they got comfort from a surprising source, Michelle Carter. She reached out to lynn through Text Messages, consoling her saying conrad loved her very much. Did you feel like you were getting support . Oh, absolutely. Reporter a connection to conrad, somehow . Uhhuh. And i told her i loved her. She told me so many great things about myself that he had said. And i dont know, she was just there for me when i needed her. Reporter conrads aunts also remember getting messages from michelle. She sent messages of condolences and, that she never tried so hard in her life to save someone, and that she wishes that she she could have saved him. And then at the at the wake, she came through and introduced herself. I was a little shocked though when she said, im conrads girlfriend, cause, like, i had no idea, never heard of her name. Reporter among conrads things were goodbye letters hed written to different people, like this one to michelle. It was very positive. Keep doing what youre doing, michelle. Keep moving on and doing great things, and reporter after reading this letter, you must have thought, oh, conrad and michelle really had a special friendship. Yeah, yeah. Reporter that he wrote her this letter . I was very happy that she was in his life. I thanked her for being there for him. Reporter just weeks after conrad died, michelle contacted his family saying she wanted to raise awareness for Suicide Prevention by organizing a baseball tournament, homers for conrad. I was thinking, wow, this is really impressive. Heres a teenager, a high school senior, and shes, only a month later, starting to plan this large fundraiser. Reporter conrads whole family showed up. His aunt krissy was impressed with the now 17yearold. I went up to her parents at that fundraiser and i said, you must be so proud of your daughter. Shes quite an amazing girl. Reporter unbeknownst to the family, back in fairhaven, detective gordon was digging around for answers hoping to discover why conrad might have taken his own life. I just found it odd that an 18yearold would do it in that manner. Reporter the detective figured there were clues on conrads cellphone, which was found in his truck. And sure enough, when he powered it up, he discovered a string of Text Messages left on the phone from just one person. And that was a thread with Michelle Carter. He had deleted all other text conversations with other people . Correct. Reporter and when the detective started reading the texts, he couldnt believe what he was seeing. It was one of those things where you keep reading and it just keeps getting worse. And thats whats kinda put everything in motion. Reporter coming up the Text Messages no one could fathom. I had to read them a couple of times to really sort of take it all in. Words that raised a disturbing question, was this sudz or Something Else . I closed my eyes and i said, this is not real. Reporter when dateline continues. Introducing botanica. Home fragrances with exotic pairings. Warm vanilla and himalayan magnolia. French lavender and honey blossom. And its responsibly sourced. New botanica by air wick. Nature inspired. Planet conscious. And my lack of impulse control, is about to become your problem. Ahh no, come on. I saw you eating poop earlier. Hey my focus is on the road, and thats saving me cash with drivewise. Whos the dummy now . Whoof whoof so get allstate where good drivers save 40 for avoiding mayhem, like me. Sorry hes a baby welcome back. Conrad roys family was reeling due to his apparent suicide. Now investigators were focused on other messages the teen shared. What they uncovered would turn the case on its head. Reporter two days after conrad roys death, detective scott gordon of the Fairhaven Police department had found a clue, and it was a bombshell. A string of Text Messages from Michelle Carter on conrads phone. What are you seeing . It was a series of messages that seemed to be encouraging him to take his own life. Reporter encouraging him to take his own life . To the detective it was unimaginable. He learned michelle and conrad had been texting, like teenagers do, for almost two years. But a few weeks before his death, something changed. It seemed michelle started a campaign to get conrad to commit suicide. She even gave him suggestions on how to do it. Hang yourself, jump off a building, stab yourself. I dont know, theres a lot of ways. Gordons partner, detective glenn cudmore also worked the case. I remember when he was looking at it, it was something to the effect of, i cant believe what im reading. Reporter what kinds of things was she saying . Things like, you promised me. When are you gonna do it . Why havent you done it yet . You disappointed me. Ill take care of your family. Reporter the detectives pored over thousands of Text Messages, and the more they read, the more disturbed they became. Like this exchange, in the Early Morning hours before conrad died. You cant think about it. You just have to do it. You said you were gonna do it. Like i dont get why you arent. I dont get it either. I dont know. Carter types back, so i guess you arent gonna do it then. All that for nothing. Im just confused. Like you were so ready and determined. Carter typed back, okay, im going to do it today. Do you promise . I promise, baby. Reporter have you ever seen anything like that in your career as a detective . Both no. Reporter it was clear to the detectives that conrad had died by his own hand. But was what michelle did actually a crime . Detective gordon contacted assistant da maryclaire flynn. He said, i wanna send you these Text Messages. If you could, please just take a look at them. And i said, sure, i will. And it was just utterly shocking. Reporter she checked with her colleague, Katie Rayburn, and they agreed those Text Messages warranted further investigation. I couldnt believe what was in them. I had to read them a couple of times to really sort of take it all in. Reporter clearly, its black and white for you that you know this is wrong. But is it black and white, were gonna go forward with this. This is a crime. I mean, i would imagine for you its complicated. Yes, and and with all investigations, its our duty and our responsibility to follow the evidence where it takes us. And, so the evidence was taking us to Michelle Carter. Reporter so the commonwealths office told detectives to keep digging, and find out more about Michelle Carter. First reaction when you see her picture . Shes young. Shes just a kid. And the words that she was saying in their Text Messages. It just didnt seem feasible. Reporter during the investigation detective cudmore went undercover at that fundraiser homers for conrad. He secretly took photos of michelles every move. To confirm she was the one who sent those texts, he went one step further. He videotaped michelle as he dialed the number he got from conrads phone. Youre watching her . Yes. Reporter answering the phone . Yes. Reporter thats a good sign . Yes, and we had the right person. Reporter did you just hang up . Let it stay on for a few seconds, muted, and then she finally just hung up the phone. And i remember calling scott, saying, are we sure we have the right girl . She just seemed so normal. Reporter a few months later, as the investigation continued, detective gordon decided to pay Michelle Carter a visit. He found her after school, and approached her. Um, michelle the reason we came out here is because we were looking into conrads unfortunate passing, all right . Mmhmm. Reporter and she has no idea shes been watched . She has no idea. Reporter did she look surprised . She a little bit. But, you know, at at that point, i dont think she understood, really, what we had, and where we were going with it. Reporter at first, michelle told the detective she tried to talk conrad out of suicide. How, how did you help him try and see that the suicide wasnt the right thing to do . Well i told him a lot of things. I told him that i loved him. Yup. I told him that a lot of people loved him. Yeah. And without him nothing would be the same. Like i had personal issues that i got help for. And i told him that he should come with me and get the help that he needed but he, he refused. He said that no one would be able to help him, and it would make it, make him worse if he got help. Reporter then the detective asked her about having contact with conrad on the day he died. Do you think you had contact with him that day . Um, i dont think so. Yeah. Reporter the detective knew that was a lie. We have a search warrant for your phone, okay . So well be taking it. Wait. So youre taking my phone . Yes. When we took her phone, i think shes she started to understand a little bit that we were looking a little more further into it than she expected. Reporter he followed her home and says michelles parents were very cooperative. They provided us with everything we needed. And that day, we left with her cell phone and her laptop. Reporter michelle has to know whats going on. But her parents, are they totally in the dark . Yeah, i believe so. Absolutely. Reporter after going through all the evidence including michelles phone and computer, prosecutors were convinced michelle was criminally responsible for conrads death. Words can harm. And you dont have the ability to to just say your words arent criminal because theyre protected by free speech. And theres precedent for people that have encouraged others to commit suicide to be charged with Involuntary Manslaughter. Reporter what is the law here in this state . And how did it guide you . Well, the charge of Involuntary Manslaughter, it involves wanton and reckless conduct that she could have caused someones death and did cause someones death. Reporter in other words, the prosecution believed michelle should have known that encouraging conrad to kill himself, could result in him dying. Prosecutors now had the difficult task of telling conrads family what they had uncovered. It was just unbelievable. I just kept thinking shes holding his head under water. You could tell that he did not want to die. Her messages overpowered him. I closed my eyes and i said, this is not real. How can someone, like, have an involvement in someones death and only encouraged it . Reporter did you just feel like youd been duped . Shes been consoling you this whole time. Im a very forgiving person. And the only thing i can say about the way that she was with me is that shes just really, really not well. Reporter the grand jury indicted michelle for Involuntary Manslaughter. She pleaded not guilty. Thats when the world heard the story for the first time and the debate began. Was conrads death a suicide or a homicide . Reporter coming up a jawdropping theory, about motive. Why would she do this . cause she wanted the attention. Reporter and, at trial, michelle makes a stunning decision. Are you doing that knowingly and voluntarily . Yes. Reporter is it a choice shell regret . So the whole world looks different. The unbeatable strength and speed of advil liquigels. What pain . Which of your devices are protected by daily security updates . Daily security updates. Daily . I dont know. The only thing. Im struggling with this. Some providers you have to manually download updates to each device. Comcast business securityedge updates every 10 minutes to help keep your connected devices protected against new ransomware, malware and phishing threats. Every 10 minutes feels pretty good. Get secure, reliable internet and voice for an amazing price. Call today. Comcast business. Beyond fast. Two people in florida have died of coronavirus. Meanwhile been at least 21 people aboard a grand princess cruise ship tested positive for coronavirus, including 19 crew members. The ship is currently being held off the coast of california. And President Trump has named congressman mark meadowss as his new chief of staff replacing acting chief mick mulvaney. Now back to dateline. Welcome back to dateline. Michelle carter had been arrested, charged with the death of conray roy. The evidence, chilling Text Messages michelle sent conrad who struggled with depression, urging him to kill himself. Now the case was headed to trial, but could prosecutors prove what she had done was a crime . Once again, here is Andrea Canning with reckless. Reporter Michelle Carter was facing Involuntary Manslaughter charges for doing something teenagers do all the time, texting and calling each other and the world was watching. Prosecutors Maryclare Flynn and Katie Rayburn understood why. This affects everybody, adults, teenagers. Even parents with kids who dont even have phones yet. Absolutely. I think its good to be thinking about what youre putting out there in the world because once you send it, you cant take it back. Turn the gears reporter prosecutors believed michelles words and actions caused a vulnerable conrad to kill himself. He described his fragile state in that video diary. Racing thoughts, suicidal thoughts, and flashbacks of hard times. Reporter and prosecutors learned michelle did more than send Text Messages to conrad. As deadly Carbon Monoxide filled the cab of his truck, michelle was talking to him on the phone. There were two phone calls after the last text message one from him to her, 41 minutes and then, one from her to him for over 42 minutes. Reporter but how would they ever know what was said on those calls . Detectives pored over thousands of Text Messages and they got their answer. Lo and behold, on her phone there was Text Messages to her friends describing what that phone conversation was like. Reporter the detective says a message michelle sent her friend Samantha Boardman explained it all. Sam, his death is my fault, like honestly i could have stopped him. I was on the phone with him. And he got out of the car because it was working and he got scared and i fing told him to get back in. And as much as we were in shock about her language prior to that, once we read that, that was really disturbing. Reporter prosecutor flynn says another text message to that friend made it clear michelle knew what shed done was wrong. She said, sam, i just found out from his mother that the detectives have some of his things and are are going through them to see if anybody texted him or encouraged him. They read my Text Messages with him and im done, his family will hate me, and i could go to jail. Reporter and thats what was at stake on june 5, 2017, almost three years after conrad roys death. At the Bristol County courthouse in taunton, massachusetts, Michelle Carter went on trial. Id like miss carter to take the witness stand please. Reporter the drama began almost immediately. Instead of having the case go before a jury, michelle, at the last minute, chose to let a judge decide her fate. Are you doing that of your own free will knowingly and voluntarily . Yes. All right. Reporter in her opening statement, flynn drew a Straight Line from Michelle Carters badgering and bullying to conrads death in the truck that night. She assisted and devised and advised and planned his suicide. She reasoned him out of his reservations. She told him that once he was dead he would be free and happy. He kept saying that to her. I dont wanna do this. It would hurt my family. And she kept saying, dont worry about them. All the fears that he brought up, she had a reason to go around them and convince him that those things werent real. There are people who are gonna say, everyones responsible for themselves, you know. He made that decision to do that. I think personal responsibility is something thats very important. That being said it was clear from the Text Messages, especially her text message to sam boardman, where she said she told him to get back in the car. He didnt want to do it. Reporter the commonwealth put sam boardman on the stand to read that incriminating message and another one in which michelle described listening to conrad die. Sam he just called me and there was a loud noise like a motor and i heard moaning like someone was in pain and he wouldnt answer when i said his name. I stayed on the phone for like 20 minutes and thats all i heard. I think he just killed himself. Reporter but as the trial continued, there was a nagging question why would she do this . Cause she wanted the attention. When her friends were not hanging out with her or not spending time with her she would say things and do things to try to get their attention. She wanted them to be friends with her. Reporter it was a shocking theory. Prosecutors were basically saying michelle convinced conrad to kill himself so she could be popular. They believed her plan was to get attention by being the grieving girlfriend. They pointed out a Text Exchange she had with conrad shortly before he died. And she says am i your girlfriend. And he talks about Something Else. He goes she goes, no, am i your girlfriend . I need to know, sort of, like, to tell people. So, i think she wanted conf confirmation of the label before he died reporter a day before his death, the prosecutors say michelle tested out her plan of being the grieving girlfriend. She texted sam boardman im losing hope, i think he really did it. Even though she knew conrad was alive. Three minutes later she texted conrad the generator will work 100 and quick. I dont get why you dont just use that. Shes telling her friends that hes missing, he mightve committed suicide, when she knows exactly where she he is. Shes talking to him. And then, she made sure to instruct him before he did die that that he should write her a suicide letter, and that his last tweet should be to her, cause she wanted to get a shout out from him. Yes. Reporter the commonwealth also claimed michelle tried to cover her tracks by sending conrad Text Messages after she knew he was dead like this one, the day after his suicide. Did you do something . . conrad i love you so much please tell me this is a joke. Reporter and she continued sending texts to his phone for months, nearly 80 of them. The prosecution argued she deliberately sent the texts as a way to change her story. At the time i went along with it because i knew you werent gonna do anything. But you did it and im so sorry i didnt save you. Reporter it was agonizing for conrads family to sit in the courtroom and hear these new details. It was pretty shocking. A lot of times it just doesnt seem real. Do you believe in your heart that it was criminal what she did . I do. For someone thats in that fragile state and then you persuade him in the worst way possible, yeah, it definitely is criminal. Reporter lynn says her sons own words, a month before he died, show he wanted to live. I want to recover from this. I feel like i havent recovered from it yet. I do have a lot going for me, i just got a job from the boston duck tours to captain their boat, like thats a huge accomplishment. Reporter but there was another side to the story, michelles. And her lawyer was certain the law was on her side. Its a tragedy, its horrible, but its just not criminal. Reporter coming up the defense digs into Text Messages the prosecution dnts share in court. Go to mcclain hospital. They will help you. Michelle carter was trying to talk him out of it. Reporter a very different take, on michelle michelle, for a year and a half, tried to persuade him not to commit suicide. Reporter when dateline continues. Welcome back. Michelle carter was on trial for involuntary man slater. The defense team was about to counter, contending that michelle was no callous killer, she was a victim. Continuing with reckless, here is Andrea Canning. Reporter it wasnt easy for ed mcfarland to sit in the courtroom and hear Michelle Carter described as a monster. To him, michelle was anything but. Whos the michelle you knew . She was a quiet kid. Helpful. Very friendly. Got along with everybody, and everybody seemed to get along with her. Her senior class superlative was the kid most likely to brighten your day. Reporter ed was her softball coach. Hed known the Carter Family for years. Were these the kind of parents that came to every game . There would always be somebody at the game. If you needed somebody to do something, you didnt have to ask them twice if you needed help with anything. Reporter hes been supportive of michelle and her family, and was outraged she was ever charged. Its a travesty. She wasnt there. And weve gone down a slippery slope here, if somebody bein on the phone, talking about committing suicide can be held to Involuntary Manslaughter. Reporter joe cataldo, michelles attorney, agrees its a slippery slope. He thinks the commonwealth made a mistake. This is an overreach of the prosecution. And from day one, until this day i sit here, i dont think a crime was committed. Reporter massachusetts has no law against encouraging suicide. Right. And so its troubling that they would bring a manslaughter. Reporter that was the basis of his whole argument, prosecutors misinterpreting massachusetts law. To him this was clearly a suicide. Thats why he wanted a judge, not a jury to hear the case. I thought the judge would apply the correct law on the facts and that conrad roy was just so suicidal that Michelle Carter did not cause his death. Reporter and thats how he began his opening statement. Michelle carter was not present. Michelle carter had been texting with him. She did not physically see this individual for over one year. Reporter and to bolster his case, michelles lawyer introduced a set of Text Messages that the prosecution had not mentioned, ones where she tried repeatedly to help conrad. Have you thought about getting professional help . Like i think im gonna go away to a place for my eating disorder to help me overcome it and stuff. Where are you going . Its called Mclean Hospital in belmont mass. I honestly think it would be so good for you and we would get thru our issues together. Michelle carter was trying to talk him out of it. Go to Mclean Hospital, they will help you. She had nothing but resistance from conrad roy. Reporter one of the main points of your argument was that conrad roy had tried this before. He had researched various ways to take his own life, that this was not something that was just created by Michelle Carter. Right. Michelle, for a year and a half, always tried to persuade him not to commit suicide. He always rejected her thoughts of staying alive. It wasnt until literally the last two weeks of his life, where michelle finally endorsed his plan. Reporter i think thats where people have the biggest problem with this case, is why. Why would she encourage him . And shes supposed to be his friend. Well, she came to the realization that he didnt want to live anymore. That he would only hate her, his words, i will only hate you if you tell somebody about my plan. Reporter while the prosecution presented Michelle Carter as an attention seeker, the defense portrayed her as a victim who was taking antidepressants for her own Mental Health issues, and was in no shape to help a suicidal friend. The facts will show that Michelle Carter is going thorough her own struggles. She was bombarded by his suicidal thinking. So, you take that and then you mix in her own issues that she was struggling with, eating disorder, and then eventually being diagnosed with a major depressive disorder, herself. Reporter the defense called an expert witness, psychiatrist dr. Peter breggin, to the stand. He testified the antidepressants that michelle was taking impaired her judgment. She was enmeshed in a delusional system. Sorry, she was what . Enmeshed in a really a delusion, where shes thinking that its a good thing to help him die. Reporter breggin also testified that he believed conrad was in control of the relationship, and that he used the vulnerable and depressed michelle to help him commit suicide. He was constantly telling michelle, and not telling his other friends. Will you help me . Reporter the biggest hurdle for the defense, it seemed, was michelles admission of guilt to her friend sam. If you actually read the entire statement that she texted, she said, its my fault. I told him to get back in. Hand youre saying that she was kind of had sort of succumbed to, im going to help him, he should do it if he wants to do it that badly. She was all over the place. She was both. As for the motive she was an attention seeker, the prosecution got it all wrong. It was a fabricated motive. They wanted to create a motive because they couldnt take the true motive that she was suffering herself and was convinced by conrad roy to endorse his plan because thats what happened. Does michelle know how bad she looks to people who dont know this side of the story or who are not seeing it this way. At the age of 17, she didnt understand all the ramifications of what was going on. Now looking back at the circumstances, shes a totally different person. The trial was winding to a close. Each side would get a final word. And then the judges dramatic ruling. Coming up, the judge prepares to deliver his verdict. I thought that was a very good sign. When dateline continues. Nexgard. What one little chew can do. Wild thing, you make my heart sing. You make everything. Groovy. Done yet . Yeah, yeah, sorry, sorry. You sure . Hmm. Mmm. Come on, come on, wild thing. If you ride, you get it. Geico motorcycle. Fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more. Your colds gonna make you a zombie tomorrow. Wrong. Im taking a powerful nighttime cold medicine, so i can sleep great and wake up human. Dont eat me i taste terrible mucinex nightshift cold and flu. Fight your worst symptoms so you can sleep great and wake up human. Sensitivity its very common to have a gum Health Concern as well. But if you have sensitive teeth, you probably arent going to brush your teeth as effectivity because it causes pain. And if you see blood you should do something about it. You know, i talk to dentists every day and theyre able to recommend one product, new sensodyne sensitivity gum, to address both conditions at the same time. If we only treat one versus the other, the patients mouth is never going to be where it needs to be. Its really good dentistry to be able to recommend one product for patients that can address two conditions. And i like to question your im yoevery move. N law. Like this left turn. Its the next one. You always drive this slow . How did you make someone i love . That must be why youre always so late. I do not speed. And thats saving me cash with drivewise. My son, he did say that you were the safe option. And thats the nicest thing you ever said to me. So get allstate. Stop bossing. Where good drivers save 40 for avoiding mayhem, like me. This is my sons favorite color, you should try it. [mayhem] you always drive like an old lady . [tina] youre an old lady. Welcome back, Michelle Carters trial had sparked heated debates in legal circles and living rooms across the globe. She was charged with causing the death of conrad roy. The controversial case hinged on a thorny question, would conrad have carried out his suicide plan without michelles encouragement. A judge was about to render his verdict. Heres Andrea Canning with the conclusion of reckless. After six days of testimony, both sides had their final say. What were dealing with is a suicide and not a homicide. She could have easily called for help, and she didnt. It took Juvenile Court judge lawrence monez three days to reach his verdict. The packed courtroom was quiet as he began reading his decision. The commonwealth has not proven as to that time period that said reckless or wanton behavior caused the death of mr. Roy. Michelle looked relieved. The judge declared the prosecution did not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that her texts caused conrads death. So i thought that was a very good sign. But the judge wasnt finished. While he acknowledged conrad had taken steps to end his life by placing water pump in his truck, he said there was that one moment when conrad changed his mind. However, he breaks that chain of selfcausation by exiting the vehicle. He takes himself out of the toxic environment that it has become. It was then he believed michelle became a party to his death. Whats more, the judge said, she had a duty to save him. She called no one, and finally, she did not issue a simple additional instruction, get out of the truck. Ms. Carter, please stand. A tearful michelle stood before the judge to hear her fate. Having reviewed the evidence and applied the law there to, now finds you guilty on the indictment charging you with the Involuntary Manslaughter of conrad roy iii. How did it feel hearing that word, guilty, after everything you have been through. I was surprised, actually, there needs to be an example set. You just cant allow that behavior to continue. We were happy, but then going home that night, driving home it was like, okay. Didnt bring, you know, the peace i really was hoping for. There were no winners. Just heartbreak for two families. I felt it was a tragedy thats been compounded. Nothing is going to help anything out of this. Theres no healing going to that happen. Almost seven weeks later, michelle arrived back at the courthouse to a media circus to hear her sentence. She faced a maximum of 20 years in prison. You made your recommendation. Yes. Seven to 12 years. The defense asked for probation. Ms. Carter does regret what happened. She also sent a letter where she accepts responsibility for her actions. Then, the judge sentenced her. The court now sentences you to 2 1 2 years in the Bristol County house of correction, 15 months of said sentence shall be deemed a committed sentence. 15 months behind bars. But before michelle could be led away in handcuffs, her lawyer requested she be allowed to remain free pending an appeal. The judge agreed. I continued to be encouraged that this will be a successful appeal. Your eyes are watering, is that because youre emotional about this. Im passionate about it. Im passionate about it. I dont like when courts make new law and apply it to a 17yearold girl who has psychiatric issues herself. So this one hurt. Oh, it hurt. In october 2018, Michelle Carters appeal went before the massachusetts supreme judicial court. Four months later, the court upheld her conviction saying the evidence against the defendant proved that by her wanton or reckless conduct, she caused the victims death by suicide. Michelle began serving her sentence in february 2019, and after just under a year behind bars, in january 2020, she was granted Early Release with credit earned for good behavior. I feel worse for her mother than i do for myself. Thats a powerful statement. Well your son died. I know but i had the son that i did. And i couldnt be more proud of the young man that he was, kind, selfless, and compassionate. Everything. Conrads mom says this is a hard story to tell but she hopes sharing it will help others. There are children in this world just like conrad, and i cant even imagine anything like this happening again. Thats all for this edition of dateline, im natalie morales, thank you for watching. First up on msnbc, major developments in the coronavirus crisis, the outbreak growing worldwide, the death toll rising in the u. S. Now, new questions about test kits and whether the government is doing enough. Anybody that needs a test gets a test. Theyre there. They have the test. If theres somebody coming off the ship like the big monster ship thats out there right now, they would like to have the people come off. Id rather have the people stay. I like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised i know so much about this. Maybe i have a