Transcripts For RT CrossTalk 20220912 : vimarsana.com

Im in budapest, of course, is a flurry of discussion about what zalinski claims as a breakthrough in the conflict in the south and east, as i said, my introduction here. Um, but i think if you start unraveling it, it tells a very different story. And there hasnt been much reaction to how the russians will react to this news. Hear your thoughts, george . Well, its clear that the initial offense that was launched by a ukraine inherit was a failure. They sustained very heavy casualties and made no progress. The one in the east northeast around target has always been more successful and they have made territorial gains. And the one really cant deny that. At the moment they all set back for the russian side. They evidently were not prepared for this draw. Let me know what was it for very well the house was preparing for our thought, which again, raise questions about how good their intelligence was. But theres no question that the russians will respond to this and they already responding. Because last, you mean it was, it was strategically in watson, but more seriously for the russian side, is that they, they appear to have betrayed the people that trusted them. All the difference between now and to 2014, was the russians made promises this time when im going to leave you with all kinds of band and you to the returning ukrainian army, which is already stories coming out that ukraine on mistaking reprisals against anyone will see to collaborate with the russians, but i dont think that russia will respond and i think theyll respond by realizing that the concept of this special military operation has to be all to that. This is not the need. They do need more man power. They need to really up the and they need to put in more. 4 hardware because ukraine has had received a lot of the military hardware or sophisticated hardware from later they receive training from nature the fighting better than they were. And clearly a need to prevail. And that means that they will have to make much greater commitment than they had originally intended with operations. And when theres a lot of thoughts, obviously here in moscow about whats going on with this, quote unquote a counter offensive. But there are some people that say that this is akin to like the what the west likes to call the anglo saxon world like to call the battle of the bulge in the ukrainians or the germans. In this case where they throw in everything they have a major thrust and 2, it would achieve a victory that is hard to define here because its only one small part of the battle field. But then cynics will say that this is a very costly p r. Stunt for a kid to show to its patrons in nato, that it can actually do something with the arms that its received. And id like to point out there are many that say a lot of the arms that are used in this counter offensive work for and they werent ukrainian your thoughts . Well, it depends on the results on this. So counter offensive in the car will produce, i mean this is still on clear. Its only been a few days in the well, it can go both ways, so or so on. On, on one hand is firm and the crane has made this huge, sweeping gains which are all the way to it, which was a strategic for russia. This course the need is time to come out and it on us from the north so, so, so this is quite significant, but of course it can play out in 2 ways. I know that this will be a painful loss, strategic it, territory loss for russia, and this could put it in a difficult position. Alternatively, we might see that this the Ukraine Forces because theyve been stress too far. And given that the man is huge and sweeping games, a lot of this territories were thing they populated by russian troops. There was mostly a dumbass malicious. So it is, it all depends how, how russia will respond to this one. And its still, i dont have a crystal ball i was going to work with. We can look at, well, what went wrong, you hassan . Because and then you know the crane and also lost a huge counter offensive about this story. So i was hoping to end up incomplete failure with russia there was pull of it back. And then you create a troops are exposed to open fields and they were martin by artillery aviation and the sauce thousands of their soldiers being destroyed. And also under some military vehicles being destroyed as well. And then russia took back the territory and ended up to be a very costly affair for training. But they kind of offensive a slightly different because 1st of all, the geography is different. This mark and forests area, which again hides and also it gets under the rushes were prepared to have a military, as i mentioned in, in the area with those parents him in the military forces. So it, so it was much more, it was a better on fundamental for this offensive. So i think it has shown that rush military bug. Again, what matters now is how rush response, if theyre able to, to, to cry back into this region where there are so many of troops their finest. Or it could be a spectacular failure for the credit as it could be. That the battle which, which brought them through in their best thats, thats why i mentioned the battle of the bulge. Ok. And well have to look at all possible alternative option which is able to hold this areas and then a strategic victory. So it is, its hard to say that its a bit earlier, i think it was taken back by how much territory was taken. But this can also be seen as a weakness because it comes from solid control. And you can consolidate that. This, this strength could very quickly become a weakness, but again, this is over fresh. So its hard to say, i guess over the next week, were going to see how this plays out. You know, to george, one thing that is being played out now. Its living here in moscow, ive heard since february 24th. Ill use an english language idiom when they, when we taking the gloves off. This is, this is a catalyst here because theres been an enormous amount of restraint restraint when it comes to infrastructure, civilian infrastructure, wanting to keep casualties very low. You bring out probably the most important point. Disappointing the civilians on the ground, which is very, very key. Very, very key is not the most important issue actually, because this conflict will come to an end one day. But its the hearts and minds that are in play right now. So, i mean, some people, i know im saying finally finally, you know, we have to do this in earnest. Ok, there. This special military operation, least today is not achieving what it was supposed to up the game. Thats what im hearing. I think so too, because really low the russians did. They seem like it was a very clever maneuver. They attacked a force that was maybe a, maybe even less of a 3rd of the size of the defending force, which is on a flight to wants to be re oriented towards the 70 or prevailing. And they the cheat quite, quite a lot during these months on the and the progress in the, you know, they got the entirety of the peoples republic. They havent made that much progress in on it since july. So i was really a problem. But of all it was that they were occupying quite a lot of territory with minimal forces, and that will always vulnerable to a counter attack. And once its become clear that nato is going all in your brain, i mean just to be sending, you never a restraint on what the sending you rein and you create is also no longer restraining itself. I mean it is attacking premier. Its gary on assassinations in russia was going to be more of that terrorist attack. So, you know, you really have to think, well, weve done what we could on the special military operations. Most of what were going to win. Then this has to be a proper, a full out war, and then all the things that you say, you know, maybe i can hear back some infrastructure. All that you use the infrastructure, the entry points of the hardware that theyre sending it all that now has to be considered because this really isnt working. I mean, if this was supposed to have, right, this is not supposed to be the victim. Oh, a counterattack, particularly in a region that hes actually close to the russian. Well, hey, lets continue with the reactions. Glenn, because we had, well, you, austin, in germany was basically saying whatever it takes, again here he, ive seen his reactions. I thought he would be a little bit more brilliant, but he wasnt. But maybe as weve all said here, its early days here. But the, the people that are pro war that want to scotland, proxy conflict with russia they, they must be sitting pretty right now. Yeah, well them then the key. Yeah. Key discussion or did there, the big coming of United States has been that initially might also be a thought henson about sending into powerful equipment because door frame that this would lead to rush further. Escalation is so great, its americans on us quest. Russia will respond the kind of what they said that the lesson, this is whats coming out of the United States to say that this is that the lesson is and i didnt do anything that they were able to it being more and more powerful weapons, long, long range missiles and russia respondents. So this is kind of the dilemma for russia. If it, if, if the escalates it can risks, direct risk of direct confrontation with United States. However, it doesnt really tell it on us, do not to states from her small says, well, theyre not an approved tale. I think theres no reason why we should send ever and ever so. So this is a think youre going to see perhaps a response from, from russia because also it will what youre saying. I thought that a lot of the rules and restraints us let me go and manage to begin here. Generally we have to get to what youre breaking up with that youre getting your discussion on the events playing. I didnt stay ah ah ah, lisa canter, russian state will never be as tight as on the north scheme with will ban in the european union. The kremlin media machine, the state on russia today, and c, r t spoke neck, given our video agency, roughly all band on youtube and pinterest and with me. And United States has always had a variety of tools to use and tax on other countries. Economic sanctions are, are often just beginning. Another thing you like to do is place some military pressure on the countries that youre talking about here. And there has to be an effort to demonize that country and the leader of that country to talk to. We have a responsibility for the whole world. And we need to make rules for the rest. Because without us, there will be 2. 0 well the back across that were all things considered. Im parallel. This is the home editions remind you were discussing important news. Ah ok. Lets go back to glen in us slow right before you into the break. You are trying to finish up a point. Go right ahead. Yes, one when i rush began this wanted to refer some special notes operation in february. And the point was then 1st impulse its, its term ok about them. As we know the british band pushed, theyll ask you to do with, to cancel this negotiations. And then that this was a war of attrition. But the special milton operation as to see it would have been sufficient to, again victory in ukraine. But the argument mo, which i here in ra, size, up to the door, has changed because news pushing and everything in the house. And now russia has to go all the way. So fighting this, with one hand tied on their back with only 200000 troops, doesnt work that the argument is now they should do what they should of them beginning wishes to declare full war. And yes, i said all this and i just love one day. I just got back from this a come on me for in vogue most spoke to have plenty of time. Yeah. Ross is there as well, and this was the main sentiment that the why, why, why hasnt russia more, are there bridges standing . Why . Why, why, why taking so much courses for the civil and infrastructure this. This was a luxury that in february, but its not a luxury one that was pumping in on this weapon. So i saw this a lot of resentment towards perhaps, and the kremlin being in 2 restraints. And theres the response. Again, this is sending the wrong signals, especially to the american, so they can keep doing erin henry weapons, because ross, im with retaliating time. So, but georgia is viewers here across a george and i do george you. Youre looking pretty much vindicated, right . Over the last 6 months of conversations years. I mean, again, its time to take the gloves off as youve already mentioned. You know, attacks on crimea, assassinations in moscow. So its time to up the game and this is a catalyst. There are plenty of people just, one is pointed out here that this will be a catalyst to push through before the, before the real cold set in. And i think youll be perfectly justified with that. And also it has to send a met, you know, our viewers here have to understand russia is not just in the military conflict. And ukraine is fighting all of nature right now. Ok, this is, this is what the states right now, its russia against all of nature. And i think we need people need to be reminded of that. What you just said is very important. It is late, so thats thrown everything at russia. I mean, it sees explicitly a war against russia using ukraine. The goal here nathan wants to cross russia once and for all russians should realize this or whatever. Lou original objectives may have been with the special military operations with the militarization and the liberation of the now that has changed. Its now essentially a civil war for russia against nature. And then russia cannot afford to lose because of it loses this and it is finished as a great power, as any kind of an actor on the well social level. Russia really has no choice and therefore, you know, whatever the extent of the casualties and the hardships that will come about if it start escalating destroying infrastructure targeting here, you know, targeting, you know, anyway, just now while theyre in. Great, it doesnt matter that much because nate is coming for you anyway. Like you already got a so you dont have to worry about well escalation distillation that you already have. So you dont have any choice now in the matter. So it has to go in now because this, this way of doing things, it just is not working because theres going to be more and more of these counter offenses by your brain than out, you know, very confident of themselves. Nato is obviously who was joy about what its pulled up. So theres a lot more of this and got a call to be seen to be essentially train the people what their trust you know, and then another one another angle of this year over the last 10 days or so, theres been an enormous amount of rumors and probably a lot of misinformation im, im perfectly willing to accept that. About zelinski standing there. There is talk of a, a coup against him replacing him. Even in the russian speaking world. Theres even a list of candidates that could possibly replace him. This is this, this offensive here is really important for them to have him main. Its important to him so he can maintain his position as being the interlocutor of ukraine to the, to the nato world. This is a very important event for him. And so hard, given a parents to be successful so far, this has been my good friend because the stained glass dispositional home are you having a some opposition to are some special in the military and among some of the right reasons, but also to some operations and they do in terms of getting with and so you can seem to be losing. So this off and so successful has just been over the past few days. Obviously getting more credibility. But again, how, how i guess, just on the 2nd on our us or will respond kind of depends on which way its going to go. And im again speaking, i mentioned that they can do this. This could have put a lot of our credit troops and well go position if the through the special milton operation, the russian cycle to assess or destroy a lot of these forces and really bad grounds. I think it will go back to this more progressive bass mass on russia, but if its not able to do so, i, then i agree with george, what ross is going to do . It then have to escalate the bi, escalating this into full war by bringing in much more troops because i dont think, well there, there is an optional loss for us on this and, and i can appreciate the green is saying this is an existential fight for them. Because you can, might not exist for this, but its also to large extent, not the logic of that is also an existential threat for, for russia. Because this is not merely leading ukraine and things go back to us before 2014 made or is advancing here. So it is russia perceives this, i think, rightly so as being an existential threat. So either so, so for this reason, if theyre not able to push this back through this format of the special military operation, i dont see any other alternative than russia going in full war and by the claim one, ukraine. So this of course will be a huge escalation and will probably be complimented with the other things such a striking or where we find that western military personnel in ukraine and the delivery point. So weapons and infrastructure, president ial powers, i dont know that it will be much more aggressive, i think. So its it. And then it goes back to this dilemma. Thats a, the, it is a dilemma. Its, its the other side escalates. If you do nothing as the american for so clearly communicating this in russia, then as being weak in this, notice theres no response. In other words, lets continue more have your weapons until a rush. So this is this, i think this is a limb. In george, the dilemma exist equally for them because it is all in on this. They have to win. Their credibility is on the line on the line there, even legitimacy, i would say, considering with every passing day, the pain that europeans are experiencing because of the sanctions, the Energy Crisis and what not. I mean, this is turning into existential from all sides, depending on how you interpreted so on. And as you pointed out earlier, russia can afford this to happen. And so this is why were, were really at a rubicon right now. So something has to give one way or another and its going to be, you know, i hate to say, you know, in our day and age, people love to say we need a win win situation. Know were in a situation win or lose george. I think so, because so nato was being probing using, wow, were her go, well, well just go, you know, listen these weaponry a, something even more dangerous lee. So again, russian doesnt do much. Okay. Well, well, its, i crimea, russian doesnt really. So that probing for russia, but i was up to rush to do the same to grow, right. Ok, were going to go in and were going to hit and were going to hit the western forces that maybe a brain, you know, strike all the roads. Railways by this hardware is getting into your grade. What major going to do so far over even later they can send in on and leave grade dry, but they themselves have not been prepared to get involved in the was it ok, are you prepared to get involved yourself . Are you ready to get directly . Well, i dont think they, which is why its worth roughly just probing nature. Ok, go and see if you are ready to escalate and get into a direct line with us. So i think thats probably the way rush is good to know when your thoughts on that there was an excellent answer from george. Your thoughts . No, no, no. I agree. I think thats the direction of going. Thats why this is dangerous because for everyone, this has been an existential opinion. Russia but also to point out, maybe it was, well, it loses this, its already built is gone. So i, so when, when you have seen everything to, we are everything to lose, theyre willing to, to escalate and take huge risks. And i think thats the direction of rush as well. So its a very dangerous point in time for everyone. And no one want to say its a little bit escalate very, very quickly and put us in the interest path. So and george, when we have to point out, youre going to george here is that the, the casualties of the greens are taking are just enormous, enormous. And theres a lot of criticism within your brain and so on. How callison casual, the military and a forced into the line of fire because they casually rates really very high here. And i mean, depending on the sources, it could be 10 to one, you know, 10 for every 10 ukrainians, one russian. So, you know, the, you know, you can, you can go down the path of these offensive, but theyre very, very costly. A few seconds to george, go ahead. Yeah, they are very closely. But i think whats, whats the problem for russia is that theres no collapse in morale. And even in western stories about these extensive casualties, they report that the so does the wound up so they cant wait to get back on the front. So your brain, unfortunately, ripple, this ante, russian idiology deep abiding hatred or russia. Then i just ready to sacrifice, you know, i dont know how many tens of thousands of lives just to fight this war. And, you know, unfortunately theres too many within nato countries. Also in the grip of this historical hatred of russia. Ill, this is where it stands are gentlemen here. I want to thank my guest and are slow and budapest where i think our viewers are watching us here at r t. C. You next time, remember . Ah ah, a wrong one, i just dont a have to ship out in the coming to an engagement equals the trail. When so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground. I want to with with you with you. Im with full credit gets approved from beach to still be patient about in the board with with ah widespread blackouts to plunge 5 regions across ukraine into darkness after key power stations were reportedly hit overnight. Brands in romania are set to sign a deal to shipment of ukrainian grain to europe and the mediterranean, that despite the un warning that africa on the brink of an unprecedented hunger crisis, the film shedding a light on 100 bidens laptops, candles takes the