Transcripts For RT CrossTalk 20220928 : vimarsana.com

Never has been. If you recall an iranian group, the mac was identified as a terrorist organization. Now the United States works closely with them. You dont have to look very far on the internet to find the. Ready dos off folks marching around in nazi uniforms. They still hold commemorations of the formation of the, the waffen s. S division that was raised in the ukraine and 943 by von walked us. Remember one of the, one of the reasons ukraine has been so central for us policy over. Ready last 15 years has been because of the clintons bill and hillary clinton, there Clinton Foundation received more money from ukraine than any other country in the world. And when you realize that ukraine is one of the poorest countries in europe or the poor country in europe, youve got to ask yourself, what exactly are they bought . What are they getting access to in the so were getting to see that you have a lot of the american oligarchs who are now sitting on boards of Ukrainian Companies or children are such as hunter biden. Lets wrap for now. Im pizza. Scott, let me back again. In around 30 minutes time with all the latest news and views here are naughty. Thanks for watching. Mm hm. With with hello and welcome to cross out. Were all things are considered. I am peter lavelle. At this point, it is almost a near certainty, the regions of ukraine voting to reject kids rule will join the Russian Federation. And soon, moscow will protect these people. As natos war on russia continues, how things will escalate is anybodys guess. Ah crap. Sucking the referendums in ukraine. Im joined by my guess, pepe escobar in bangkok. Hes an independent geopolitical analyst and author specializing in eurasia in st. Petersburg. We have gilbert doctorow. He is an independent political analyst and author of men was of an expert pat manager in moscow during the 990. 00 s. And here in moscow we have white read. He is a journalist with suit nicknames, i gentleman cross across that effect. That means you can jump any time you want, and i always appreciate gilbert. Let me go to you 1st. And st. Petersburg, the votes are almost al, counted of the results will be in very soon what, what is the significance of these referendums . Because versus how the geography, the political geography of ukraine is going to change dramatically as, as military conflict goes on. What are the implications, go ahead. Immigration box rather than the reintegration into the Russian Federation of ours and extends to the rush to deploy our military forces and search or otherwise frontiers. And were not use the bo days, which will be the integration for almost all the others. Just miss serves. There is a debate whether or lawyers, whether for us or is this rhetoric where it is missing the political dimension. And thats what i like to call to be pepe. Essentially the same thing because obviously these are not going to be recognized by the west. However, this is where the danger lies because russia will claim that once theyre inducted into the Russian Federation, they are a russian sovereignty. And as this conflict goes on, nato and washington de facto will probably test this and we have heard from the russian side. Dont do that because there will be very strong reactions here. So we are at a mo, an Inflection Point, a very dangerous one at that peppy. Yes, its a very dangerous Inflection Point, but there are 2 very important things happening at the moment. One that we more or less got confirmation of this, so they, they are now there are back channels between the americans and the russians. Theyre not talking directly, but at least we have back channels. This proves that the by the ministrations absolutely terrified, they are cornered, they have no idea what theyre going to do next. First of all because they dont have any strategic thinking. Pretty batch and sullivan and blink and dumb and dumber doing strategic thinking. Now it just doesnt, doesnt matter. Right . And the pre planning, the whole car called episode was basically a pre planning for the russia army to protect the for baby bears during the referendums this week. And so what happened . The new chronology is they tried everything to disrupt it. No, it didnt work. So you know the people who are voting and more people are holding already been in crimea and busta opposed to has the record. But everybody else. Its 8589 percent. So its a major success. What happens max, which is something that could discuss 4 hours, is that any attack by p f is going to be an attack against the Russian Federation in we all know what that means. Why it here in moscow, what ive been thinking a lot about would be looking at these referendums is that they serve as a demonstration effect because, you know, all of us know, even a little bit of ukrainian history. No. The point, you know, that theres always been a, the most fragile of states. Ok. I cobbled together in the 20th century. And now we have these referendums. There are other places like odessa, for example, that we watching very, very carefully. Now obviously the camp regime has military assets there, so people going to have to be very careful. But when they look at don bouts will say they did it, crimea did it, we can do it. And this is the most important precedent thats being said. But it is not without its danger. Go ahead. Why . Absolutely. And the officials that i spoke with at least one official i spoke with the day when i went to the embassy of the peoples republic here in moscow. They predicted that this will certainly be a serious Inflection Point, that it means that in the short immediate term, hostilities are likely to escalate a visual i spoke with also predicted that it was possible that the the success of the referendums. I think we can now now say pretty confidently that they were successful that will initiate a or lead to an escalation in terms of the russian government classification, from a special military operation up to a Anti Terrorist operation. Which observers will notice is the rationale behind Russian Operations in syria. So certainly, i, you know, he also predicted that its possible that russia may seek to label ukraine officially as a pair of states or a sponsor of terror. So certainly there are significant implications from these referendums, and were already starting to see them play out. Maybe im really glad that wyatt brought that up because were going to go from the special military operation to a very different type of operation. And to say in, you know, in everyday parlance, if the sovereignty of these newly new regions of rush are violated, ill say it quite bluntly the, the gloves will come off. I think we all remember was about 10 days ago when for some unexpected reason, the lights went out through most of ukraine. It wasnt for very long. It was if somebody was tapping the brakes here, reminding everyone the brakes can be more than tapped. Go ahead, pepe. Well this past summer, we have to go back to summer. Can peter and all of you in the audience . This was discussed face to face very, very serious conversation. We had some echoes from chinese echoes about this was an extremely serious conversation between poochie and she. She asked very strong questions and could you gave very detailed answers. But the chinese message was essentially, you have to try to wrap this up as soon as possible. So that leads us to the referendums that leads us to the transformation of the s m. O into a city or a Counter Terrorist operation, which is the preferred law does open run the up the russian army from chechnya to syria and now to ukraine. So, velvet gloves and all the wise date, they are totally off as off this week. And thats why starting next week, we have a completely different ball game. The russians in Intelligence Security matters. They seem to have this under control finally and the internal front, around tutoring would, i would say what a 5 percent minority may be, is solidified, and people understand why this has to go one, at least one level up in the pain. Dia, well just wait for next week gilbert, but again, which we have to throw in this partial novelization of bringing up 300000 reservists. I mean that thats going to take time to deploy. If theyre going to be deployed at all, its going to take months. Ok. I mean, theyve already had basic training. They have, you know, they, they have their job descriptions here. But i mean, im reflecting upon what you said about timing. Ive asked over the last couple of weeks every single guests have had on the program, you know, whos got the clocks and whos has the time. And then theres a general consensus, gilbert that russia has the clocks and the time go ahead and st. Petersburg. I think it hasnt really i think its reasonable extent, but after the service and the reporters continue, jackson course new from team. I think it is reasonable to expect that the racial war and that is no longer award that it will be and i believe its within mr. Paul to end this war didnt matter. Were not days. People. Why dont people along which is to be capitan, the, the civilian military administrations bio precision strokes. Thats entirely within the military. No. So what is the meaning of the parcel was ish . Is it going back to the same point renders these theres a matter of domestic rush, and i believe that we will see this financial status, but a masters. And the last 3 months of training. The logic to me, they will be forced to hold down the territories. Ukraine after is it ok . Why it here . And in moscow there, there is, there is a, there is a sense of in patient. So you live here. I live here wanting to see this thing wound up and i think the post referendums is this opportunity kind of echoing a little bit with what gilbert had to say. Your thoughts go ahead. Absolutely will streamline popular the referendum the voters that ive spoken to. Overwhelmingly, you know everyone, everyone that ive talked to is voted ive spoken to several people, tears in their eyes. Its a situation of overwhelming emotion. People express to me basically, they are feelings of relief after 8 long years. Why, why, if i get his job in here, i was a say that i was going to say that exactly, you know, we every, the, in the world its february 24th. But for these people, its been the law 8 long years of suffering and carnage. And its about time it came to an end. And that perspective is not understood whatsoever in the west. You read articles about whats going on ukraine most have dont even mentioned the mince process. Its so out of context here. So i, i am very happy after having what my Program Cover this for 8 years that theyre going to get some kind of closure or general. Im going to jump in here. Were going to go to a short break. And after that short break, well continue our discussion on the referendums in ukraine stay with arctic blue. Ringback because she changed that with berkeley new, that was cindy smith at the missouri. Ringback i will Still National quito, which was actually due to room with the controllers alleged from when to do or not. But could you a sure to check with National Anthem complex i spoke with my briefing at this to the compton. Wanted to see it as the bush with me for who is the aggression to day, im authorizing the additional strong sanctions today. Russia is the country with the most sanctions imposed against it. A number thats constantly growing, but i figure which of problems to cause senior. Shes becoming your senior mostly mine the wish you were banding all imports of russian oil and gas, new g. I. G ovals with the literature with regard to joe by imposing these sanctions on russia has destroyed the american economy. So theres your boomerang. Ah ah, welcome back across sack where all things are considered. Im peter le belts remind you were discussing the referendums in ukraine with. Okay, go back to pepe in bangkok i may be, you know, very well i read the american conservative Asia Times Online antiwar dot com. You know what i read and i, im kind of bewildered by a lot of these libertarian guys, and theyre good. People dont get me wrong, but you know, you know, negotiated end to the conflict here. Well, i dont know, negotiating the new republics of the Russian Federation. Russia is not going to negotiate that. Okay. And why would russian negotiate with people that were involved with the mens process . They, they, well, they didnt keep their word. Theres no, theres no negotiations that can go on that with the zalinski regime, of course not. And thats why kind of echoing a little bit about what a gilbert had to say in my mind, its going to be regime change one way or another. Thats the because at the end of the day and i want my audience to understand this very, very well russia isnt doing this now. So it has to do it again in 5 years or 10 years, or 15 years. That Public Opinion is not going to be forward. Go in and do the job. As you said, you would pepe yes because as much as the game may be changing this week with the albert gloves off. Its still. Jimmy defies ation company, which is proceeding a face and a long term g. Thats if you cation campaign for that youre going to need to the capital, the current pro nazi nail, miles, decrypt on eyes the regime. And thats a given, this is something thats from the beginning. I would say the kremlin was reluctant to speed up. And now theres no reason to keep stalling. Everybody knows it and internal Public Opinion supports it. In terms of the go see issues thats still no but it so they go. Sheets with europeans are vassals, you wont negotiate with european commission. You will negotiate with the berlin, paris, and now wrong, very interesting, where we have ga milanni, which sash isnt the russian but deep down. She is not. So thats another different equation in europe. And in the us, we have, in a matter of what a month and a half, we have the dams being expelled from the capitol hill, essentially. So theyre going to have to negotiate with republicans in congress. Thats another story. Completely different story and their margin over maneuver. Of course, well see theyre going to handling duck teleprompter reader present. So in these next one months to 2 months, the whole game is going to change the fact including the possibility of the step back track negotiations that these, these back channels that are now back in the case in business day, could find some accommodating way we all know theres not, theres not going to be any a couple days because yeah, the russians have explicitly said this is a do or die affair is the new world all the stake in gilbert i, when i was up in Saint Petersburg during the internation economic form, this year i came across some people from the global south of a certain diplomat and he said, you know, peter, how is that . How can we find a win win situation . I said there is no such thing as a win win situation. Once i get to win and one side is going to lose, and nato is going to lose, the European Union is going to lose gilbert. Your thoughts, ross . I think it was to me to do the motion ambassador to the you, mr. To resign resignation. But that was not a personal career. It is point turning point in versus relations or if theres a way by removing their own from roles, theyre very way were not accepting the credentials of the new year. I think you early in the current and the whole thing is going over your directly to washington. I think that the nuclear re re and was cold in washington. And this is very important to mention because what, what is the issue is not using but they will be the most attention grain the law and mr. Reaching us trying to do it is new cutting ish systems. What are drones and theres one 0 yes. In here, so im sure its in the final countdown too. So its interesting why it is what was going to be very interesting. Here is a whole sanction regime against russia because theres a whole lot of pride at stake here. Ok, as your people pay higher food prices and youre getting cold in the winter, pride gets in the way hubris gets in the way. Personally, i dont see the russians doing anybody any favors whatsoever. Ok, again, whos got the clocks and whos got the time. The European Union has neither wyatt go ahead. Absolutely, and id like to call you as attentions to what the German Government is. So has said it suspects is sabotaged to now extreme pipelines. The denmarks Prime Minister has also said that its hard to imagine. These are coincidences we know in february, u. S. President joe biden threatened that if russia invades, quote unquote, then there will no longer be a north stream to we will bring an end to it. And a reporter asked him, but how will you do that exactly . Since the project is under jeremys control by and said, i promise you, we will be able to do that. So i think what were looking at is the force de industrialization of the entirety of europe. Langley, you know, the United States certainly understands that if sanctions wont stop russia, then they will simply force the, this economic aggression against russia by stopping europe, by credit in europe, the economy. But, boy, but why it, its, it isnt russia, its the industrialize in europe. Its think americans doing it that the amazing thing about it, a peppy, want to jump in on that because i think its a very germane point. Go ahead. Absolutely, look, i was in your, i came from paris a week ago where our discussion is apps. Its beyond off limits, you can not have a civilized discussion like this, the paris in berlin, and now now maybe in rome and milan with georgia, milan, basically whats happening is very well concerted. American push not only against russia, but specially against the you and germany, especially against germ germany, industrialization of germany, means the industrialization of the new and the you going back to a boss through the equivalent of the middle ages. This is whats happening in the america. So technically, so far have been b pepe. I dont want to be a history nerd here or anything like that. But there was a plan for the d. Industrialization of germany was called the morgenthau plan and that was being valued during its like over hold. What i didnt big it would take to build 2022 for the mortgage about plan to be put into play peppy. And the most extraordinary thing is that intellectuals from frankfurt. So, but i havent seen any other thats been great here. You know, you dont have a discussion in the, for instance, that germany has very good newspapers. Still, frank, full of algamite. The of you dont see a discussion like that discussion of substance and discussion of the role of being a fast holes and discard, doable expendable vessels that is being played by germany. And of course, in terms of the you, this discussion in brussels just beyond the offline. Because the 5th and the 6th column this inside brussels, there are lie, you know, merican agenda. Skilled or how did what, what does ukraine survive . This what will be what, what we call that ukraine after all is said and done in your mind. Gilbert. I think the see the girl will be under control trans this year for way to to see it. So loss perhaps 80 percent. Sure. And since he is in. Ringback service it will be a minor space territory. So really going to be integrated in country really west. But i wouldnt worry so much about creating the Political Services and the whole situation last year since my colleague and she really just, especially for my day when she got her, they use electricity, labor the family winter years to 500. 00 keeping in mind the surrounding is just 16 years and all that is, once youre not going to impress a larger, now were going to the gas or my bill to house or the point is under here on the law is going to, sorry, your political activity, and youre here about warning brain and they do on the walls. Well, this is, its very interesting. This is going to play out because i think we all agree here that these referendums are an Inflection Point here. But we shouldnt be complacent here. The empire, i hate to be humiliated and its being humiliated as we speak right now. So a lot more to come here. Thats all the time we have gentlemen. Many thanks them i guess in bangkok Saint Petersburg and here in moscow. And thanks to where you are for watching us here at our dc and next time remember ah ah, ah, with ah, ah, ah, 5 days of referendums in the dumbass, 2 regions of ukraine, rap off with locals and each territory voting in favor of joining russia. We hear from people on the ground and how they feel about it. No one forces us to come. You can feed yourself, people can voluntarily, im so happy im about to cry. Im really happy. Weve come a long way and ive been waiting for it for ages. As western countries labeled referendums as sharman refused to recognize the results versus ambassador to the un accuses them of double standards is learning to go with recognition as such takes place