Transcripts For RT CrossTalk 20221008 : vimarsana.com

Regional government is making a one time payment to the family of the soldier. It amounts to 100000. 00 roubles, which is a little less than 2000. 00. Another group, all mobilize soldiers and volunteers, will be leaving from a bell garage to a training center. And then they will move to the special military operation. Farewells are being sent to them by their friends and family is of course everyone is hoping that there will be back home soon, safe and sound from on. Call for a party belgrade. Thats all for now. Be sure to check out our t dot com for all the latest breaking news and updates. Well see right back here at the top of the hour. Ah, i dont see this conflict as being one over values. Thats not to say that there might not be differences in values between elements of the Us Population or elements of the u. S. Leadership and elements of the russian population in russia. Leadership, there may well be some differences, but i dont see this conflict as having to do with that. I see this primarily as really, frankly, a proxy war on russias border that is being pursued by the u. S. And the neo powers. Mm ah ah hello and welcome to cross stock were all things are considered. Im peter labelle. Zalinski regime is made it clear. It is not interested in any negotiations as russia to end the military conflict. This should not surprise any one after all. This has been the position of the bite administration all along. The collective west is intent on supporting this conflict until the last ukrainian maybe until there is no ukraine left. With cross sucking diplomatic spell made, im joined by my guess, Larry Johnson in tampa. He is a managing partner at burg associates and a former cia analyst in Us State Department counterterrorism. Official in o. How we have oliver boyd barrett. He is a Professor Emeritus of journalism and Public Relations at Bowling Green state university, as well as author of brush gate and propaganda. And in corpus christi, we have michael flannigan, hes president flanagan consulting, and a former congressman or a gentleman rolls in effect. That means you can jump it anytime you want, and i always appreciate, let me go to larry 1st and tampa, who survived. And im glad you have the, you know, have you on this week . You couldnt last week for obvious reasons. Larry, what do you make of lensky . So i need decrease. Theres no negotiations, at least not with this current russian president. And of course, as i said in my introduction, this is an echo of what the by to ministration is supported, all along. So i will invoke that more on name burrell, the Foreign Policy chief for the e. U. This will be sided on the battlefield. I guess thats pretty clear, huh. Go ahead, larry. There are the final propaganda pushes under way. Zalinski certainly is doubling down on a very bad hand, despite all of the hoopla, the propaganda going on in the west about the great victories of ukraine and how russia the treat prudence on the verge of collapse. Its going to happen in a minute. Now all we gotta do is hold on and yet the reality is something else. And the, the bottom line fact is ukraine does not have the. Ready ability to sustain itself on the battlefield without continued supplies coming from the United States and nato, and the ability of the United States and nato to continue those supplies, is were city, its not increasing the, the kinds of actual weapons that the United States consent and that the europeans consent is this not the top of the lines, material tanks, planes. Its the 2nd hand stuff. And on top of that, the ammunition supplies that the west has just to provide can are being depleted and they do not have the industrial base. They once had, this is not the world war 2 United States that could really crank up and produce stuff. So lets get in trouble. Its just the world hasnt caught up to it yet. You know, michael with the, the, the sabotage of the north stream pipeline. So again, thats kind of taking a piece off the chessboard because that was something very important for the russians and for particularly the germans. But europe, in general here, i think we all know who did it, but im not, i dont want to waste time talking about that. But the fact of the matter is, is that, that was some that was a form of interaction. That was very important for both parties thats been taken off the board because theres, theres been talk, there was a talk for weeks that the germans were interested in coming to some kind of understanding with the russians. Somebody else decided, no, theres going to be no understanding your thoughts. I think youve summed it up absolutely correctly. There is going to be no solution if left to gloria noon, then newland and the other geniuses at foggy bottom. And at the n, a say theyre the thought leaders of this nightmare, and it wont. And as i let me say from the outset, putin should not have invaded, he should have not left his own borders. But having dealing with that reality, we need to come to peace and to come to peace, you have to have the parties come to the table. So if youre going to have some ridiculous, the only thing well accept is unconditional. Surrender like it in the 2nd world war. Will you better be in a position to win the war . Well, you know, whats zalinski is not, and hes just not going to happen. Its laughable to imagine that ukraine could win this war. And the fact that we continue to live in the west in a, in a. Ready in a media circus that drives this narrative, it confuses me deeply because there is no way to grind this downs. When when minority in water it takes the more brutal that will be at mit michael, you can escalate up. I agree with you there. Would there a way, there were ways that may be a ray of hope that it could happen. Now . I tend to doubt it, but do you can escalate to let, let me go to oliver in ohio, is it . This is what i worry about because ive learned a lot from Larry Johnson, our guest in our program. I did a podcast on my, on the gaggle with George Samuel ali, which, you know, is how much longer length. But, you know, what worries me is that the, the west doesnt have the conventional capacity to maintain this war. And so theres the next step. And thats the big step. Ok. And we hear all of this talk about a, using the technical you nuclear weapons. Thats not the russian saying at this. Its an insinuation on from the west because they dont have the conventional capacity to saying a conflict against russia. Oliver go ahead. Yeah, this issue a conventional capacity is kind of important because although they do seem to have run out other stocks for their own defense purposes, let alone for the defense of ukraine. They are, or a 1000000000. 00 more and 2 orders for future deliveries of, of hardware. And those orders will eventually be met to the great profitability of the western arms manufacturers who the who seem to be the primary beneficiaries of this war or by the way. And but by my thinking is that at some point theres no new orders for webinar. We do have to stop running in, but im not sure how many months it takes and i dare say it takes different periods of time according to what categories of weaponry we are talking about. Im thinking the winter. Theres this is a very, very dangerous time for the, for the west because of the situation in the battle field despite the misleading optics are keith s on that the, this is not a good time for the worse and were entering awesome, were entering winter is going to be very difficult for either side to launch major offensives. Well i think we but oliver, when its, its the rainy season where i am right now to say its rainy season in ukraine. Russia has a very good history of fighting in the winter of stalingrad. The defense of berlin. It winters, not a big problem. Hard ground is good. Ok, larry, i well, you know, one of the things that really bothers me about a lot of the commentary on the conflict is that we have to look at it in a very broadly what russia is doing now in we will. It wants to avoid having to have to do it in again, in 5 years or 10 years, or 15 years, they want a definitive outcome for their security needs. We so much commentary about this overlooks that go ahead larry. Well, i think part of the problem is the wes look entirely as a Football Game that whos, whos scored a point whos, whos allowed a goal. And they forget the cost of whats dictate that that war is just an extension of politics. And youve got to look at the broader politics, and thats where i think the russians clearly have the advantage here and we saw it on, i dont know, i cant recall if it was tuesday or wednesday of this week. But when opec plus turns around and says, hey, were going to reduce the production of oil at the very time that washington and europe are begging for Lower Oil Prices and more oil. Now if, if saudi arabia and the rest of the opec nations nigeria thought that russia was just getting clobbered and was on the verge of collapse, does any same person think that those countries would align themselves with a guaranteed loser . Absolutely not, theyre not crazy. So the people need to take into account the politics of this, which also gets into the economics. And so from that standpoint, that whats happening militarily on the ground, i dont want to minimize it, but its a bit of a side show. And its now its the, its the drama, the west needs or is a sit com mentality. Thats such a good point. Because michael, i think that, you know, when we look at here we are, were in october in winter is beginning to start. I think were going to have very different conversation, echoing with larry just said, theyre not about the battlefield, but the condition of europes economy, and by extension the United States go ahead. Michael and corpus kristie. Yeah, i think the general kudos offset it, but general winter is on its way. The russians do very well in the winter. The west is not and zalinski isnt doing very well anywhere i put in laid out several months ago. 5 points for a point where we can stop fighting and discuss the permanent relinquishment of the crimea of promise not to go into nato and several other things. Those go posts moved as russia has paid a price on the ground and has captured the don bastard virtually all of it. And now has other designs. Im guessing because that once he drags this out, so the russian view is to ratchet up the pain and bring come to the table. And lets have a done with this. And the pain will continue to be ratcheted up by the russians because they can afford to do it. They have the capacity to do it. And so i, i think the battle is something a little more than a side show, although it is subordinate to the. Ready to the political discussion, to be sure, but i think its the method by which hootin is trying to bring this to an end and move on to talks. And so they, we, we shuffled into carfagna wheat and we got pushed out. Oh, go, go back in. I think they will odessa looms large in the winter if theres a winter offensive and im sure there will be on the the problems for ukraine are insurmountable. The longer they drag this out in a political sense as well. Ready as a military one, they would do well to come to the table now. I dont think they can. I dont think gloria new and i dont think my, my, my dear friend came into congress with senator graham is going to let them do these things. I think are there, as, as you said at the outset, theyre going to fight to the last few oil. I mean, but it might, michael, that maybe when watching and im agreeing with you. But that means they dont really care much about ukraine, right. Its kind of true they, both of them are care, far more about hurting russia than they do about protecting ukraine. That is a fact well and, and also a, the, the, the, the derivative of that is that what kind of economic damage will be lasting damage. Because trade ties will change, and peoples this a while going to say what the russians are going to say the chinese, because the europeans dont know, they dont, dont even how to protect their own interests. There are gentlemen, were going to go to a short break and after that short break, well continue our discussion on diplomatic stalemate. Stay with ah ah mm. With welcome back to cross stack where all things are considered on peter. Lets remind you. Were discussing diplomatic stalemate. Ah, okay, go back to oliver oliver, going back to the, the, the sabotage of the pipelines. It says it, 2 things stand out of my mind. Number one. Obviously, whoever did this wanted to cut that Economic Energy relationship, but it may, at the end of the day cripple germany, certainly not russia. This is an annoyance. For russia. They might rebuild it. My might repair it, but if someones going to blow it up again, then why do it okay. And number 2, that kind of civilian infrastructure i guess is on the table. There are other pipelines in the baltic. Um, i just think who did this um with thinking in very short term as if it white makes some kind of dramatic difference. It doesnt, it may, it may in the short medium run and that will be germany in the european economy. Go ahead. Well, im not sure that its a short term, or it may actually be quite a long term and a worrying way. Which is to say the united, well, where we to make the presumption that the United States has had a hand in the sabotage. The course is going to be an investigation into this. It will be an investigation into which russia will not be invited. Shades of an age 17 shenanigans in 2014. But i think the long term game here is for the United States, both to, to, to crush europe and to crush russia simultaneously that, that, that is the game. And at the same time, to make it impossible for europe and russia to collaborate, that will have the effect of consolidating rushes, pivot to asia. It will have the effect of greatly solidifying and strengthening the asian chinese lead asian alliances. It will have the effect of whether the United States wants it or not, of ushering, ushering in the multi per the world. So frightened, so terrified the washington leads that the saddest part of well, there are so many sad parts of the story and the suffering of the ukrainian all ukrainian people is one of those. But another very, very sad element. The story is the crashing of europe. Yeah, and in, because of the crashing or just except the germans dont seem to realize yet what is happening to them. I think i can only assume that they are so integrated into a power structure that is dominated by the United States. That they dont see that they have korea possibilities anywhere else other than to be porns. Yeah. Yeah. I just think theyve, theyre just obsessed with their neo liberal ideology. They cant break out of it. I mean, it, it, it, they, they cant see reality for what it is because theyre ideologically blind. Larry, lets talk about that because i think were all in agreement. The prize and all this is continued american hegemony over europe. Okay. You know, check that box. But europe, the price of europe is very modern, high productivity economy. I mean, without cheaper energy, you dont have you, i think you go pre industrial. I mean, i dont know what europe is going to be maybe a destination for terrorists from india and china. The see what people used to live like because the prize is worthless. If it isnt, it isnt a high high productivity. Larry. I posted an open thread on my blog the other day, asking people, whats your Economic Situation . I have a remarkable readership. I mean, people from around the world, they got comments from a lot from europe, asia, africa, australia, canada, were in a Global Economic crisis. And whats coming out of europe is particularly disturbing in terms of across the board. These, the people that were commenting were saying, look, my bills have double, theyve tripled people that have been, ex pats are now selling their property and theyre leaving europe. Try to come back to the United States because its so bad. So the, the reality for the people, for the civilians, the populace, it is on a grand scale. This is a little bit like that moment in the french revolution were Marie Antoinette was to let them be k. Because the leadership is so out of touch with whats going on with the average citizen, the Business People that are trying to keep bakeries open are heavens, even with toilet paper producers in germany having to declare bankruptcy. You know, one of the necessities of life, if you will. So their failure to come to grasp the, to come to grips with the economic consequences of this policy towards russia. Underscore is the fact that, or theyre not thinking about this in terms of a comprehensive strategy to win a war, or theyre focused only upon how can we are russia. Yeah, but get it, but that thats not, thats not in any one security interest in the long run. Again. Thats why i keep saying we have to take steps back here. Because what about the European Security architecture . We need to talk about that. Ok, i mean, you know, the can be, is much looser foby as you want, but theres still here, neighbor, you cant do anything about that. Let me, let me go to michael. Michael, you know theres, theres energy cap on russian energy, which of course is kind of the unicorn stuff in my, my, i still dont really understand it. I dont think anybody really does. But i mean, lets flip the, the, the script here will be a cap on high priced l n, g from the United States. Is anybody talking about tapping that . Because there are the, i mean, this is obviously a looking for the fees market. This energy market, the americans want it, they wanted to die the russians. Ok. But in the middle of europe, i mean the, what theyre going to be charge is going to be again, their productivity will fail. Michael, after the 2nd world war, when europe was in ashes of the United States, owned about half the worlds gps, or yep, 12550000000 people own half the worlds g d p. Today we own a little less than a quarter and its going down. But the people making decisions for our economic future, our military future are had gemini in europe, which i believe is ebbing quickly, still live in a world. Ready we call all the shots, we absolutely do not any more and we need to come to understand that. And i dont think newland or biden, or the 30 something nameless, faceless. Ready children who run the white house have a clue what theyre doing. The future of this country of the United States is going to be increasingly interdependent on an economically vibrant globe. However much its being harm now. And you know that it has been said here that they are a pain net is a fact, but we will share that pain shortly. And its coming and its going in, its inexorable. Inflation is going to be the smallest problem weve got coming shortly. You know, it used to be the United States catches a cold in the world, gets pneumonia. Its going to be the. Ready way around and are come up and says, coming quickly here, we dont have the economic power we did even 30 years ago. And we continued to manage a Foreign Policy that pretends that we do well then also what they did. Theres one thing that the u. S. Has enormous amounts of debt. Oh, so do the europeans, enormous amount of debt here oliver, one of the interesting things of all this is that the global south is, is turned its back on this whole affair. This is a between the europeans and the russians. Dont drag us into it, you know, why . Mostly, because you dont have a solution to ended. Why should i back here cause if there is no ending to this. Ok. And the in the global south is as staying on the sidelines. Thats very significant in light of what michael just said. Go ahead, oliver. Yes, absolutely. We see some science that africa countries like molly keener faster and some other some center are turning away from one of the s p. I is france in favor of the russian and so that, that is a very interesting kind of just going to quickly go back to the issue of the l and g. Lincoln said quite recently the, the sabotage of the nose ring. One or 2 lions was a wonderful opportunity for the, for the United States. Actually hes wrong because the United States is not producing enough energy to service the european markets. Its facing steep gasoline prices arises and gasoline prices here in the United States. So it needs as much gas for its own populations as well. And also the, the shale revolution of the past 10 to 20 years is now drawing to an end. There will be a diminution of shale oil and gas supplies in the United States. This isnt dwindling. Resource and the idea that the United States believes that theres a future in selling and g to the United States as i to, to europe and, and youre not going to be bailed out either by the mythology of us alan g, even at steepest possible price control clearly, clearly, and none of these people thought any of this are, you know, larry and what are future historians are going to think about this. I mean, this is all self inflicted. These are craving choices. These none of this should be happening larry. Some airy parallels. If you will, with the 1st world war, because when you look back at the health, the world got drug in europe in particular was drug in to a completely unnecessary, massive slaughter. There are the historians will look back at this period and see a complete failure of leadership across the board, an unnecessary provocation of russia and refusal to negotiate and, and in the end, it will, this is going to lead to, unfortunately widespread pain. I think death, destruction, i dont mean to be a doom say or but it just or the future is dark and what were looking at because the leaders refusing to stand up and try to be reasonable adults. You know, michael, i think when all is said and done, whats going to be left of ukraine . You can call it been debtors then. Ok. Because thats all thats going to be lab. The longer this goes on, the smaller ukraine gets last 25 seconds. Go to you, my friend. Thank you sir. I think youre absolutely correct. Put in is trying to wrap up the pain and saying, anytime you want to talk, were ready to talk and stop this. And what is the one to say to the death will fight to that. That. What do you, are you insane . It will never stop until the russians when thats when its fast. Well, let it up. Now michael, im sure lindsey has got a plane on the tarmac with all the money and it will just pull the afghan president variant and just leave the country. Ok. Or hell end up in a ditch one way or another. Its going to end as all the time we have gentlemen many thanks them i guess in tampa. Oh. And hor, corpus christi. And thanks to our viewers for watching us here at our dc. And next time, remember, trust, stock rules the the, oh, a sofa is you do with russia is the aggression no hip answered much better by me, and it wouldnt do too much. You should swell more where we have any quality for russians. All we gotta do is just read them over the head and just tell them the right way to live there is going to do. Yeah, just a boy. You with all the list with a lot of nice gloves, with the new changes they dont get us with our human at the washer to work. So i was at the watch with with a large fire or wraps in russia. Donnas republic as local Officials Say ukraine fired sick time mars rockets in the attack us lamb societies as royal back stabbers following the opec plus decision to splash oil output. Brianna though, says the u. S. Is fully responsible for the Energy Prices in the country. And were dick. Moscow isnt buying, he has attempt to attract president , going to call for preemptive strikes on russia by claiming he was actually calling for sanction