Point one, google makes the account found a duty in the phones have gathered here outside beef. Hi, cool. Central london. Recording of the day. We bring you the latest updates on june and also on the final bathroom for just this picking up in london tuesday because of jailed with the blow apply to you as extradition on espionage charges with families are gathered outside the cool treatment. And this case is closed the case with julian has the u. T. I n e us an embarrassed put it on the world. The because all the headlines this our head to a website or to come for more im, are they show are josh postal. So the, [000 00 00;00] the hello and welcome to cross stock were all things are considered. Im peter level american investor, david sacks as to ukraine. Complex is based on paul. So its and to see about how it started, how its going, and how it will end. On this edition of the program, we examine all 3 propositions. The cross walk in ukraine. Im joined by my guess, dan kabbalah can pittsburgh. He is a professor of law and author of the plot, the scape goat russia in Salt Lake City. We have david pine. He is Deputy Director of National Operations for the task force on national and Homeland Security and invalid. We cross the carlos out. He is a political analyst has started and host of the silk and steel podcast. All right, gentlemen, cross stock rolls and the fact that means you can jump any time in want and i always appreciated. Im going to go 1st to dan. I mean, i really like how the, the investor, mr sacks of broke it down into 3 parts. So lets look at the 1st one. How did the complex start and ukraine . Because hes saying that western media is preventing allies false hood and defeat. Go ahead, den. Yeah, well 1st of all, as you know, ive been to the don bass twice in the last year and really a lot of it centers around there that the, the conflict really began in 2014, with the to against the democratically elected government. And tia but qu, that the us back, right when government came to power, which is very hostile towards its russian, ethnic and speaking populations, particularly in the east, particularly in the dawn bass. And when the dog bass dynette skin lu hogs, uh, became alarmed about where the country was headed, they declared their independence of from t a with the referendum and ts began to shell and attack. Yeah. But then i thought i thought it all started one morning in february of 2022, the rushes suddenly attacked. You great, thats the narrative that we get in the west. There. That its a not a true narrative already by then 14000 people had died in that conflict between t. Evan and the john bass and russians. Intelligence was that uh, a key. I was preparing for an invasion uh, a Ground Invasion of, of the don bass. And a russian decided to could not allow that. Okay, wait, wait. I have that from the oh, i see you dont even need that from a residence or is this a david in Salt Lake City . I mean, when we, when we look at the origins of the complex, very little is said about how the ukranian military had been nato allies, where you hadnt on nato advisors, recognizance. I mean, everything you need for more modern army was being pumped in there at a furious rate thats never mentioned in the narrative visit david, you know, its not we had about 1008. 00 o troops including, you know, of course, the south county ca operatives training and the pre military, we were training and at the rate of 10000 a year with 8008 or trained troops and you see creating our media to forms kind of the lead forces of, uh, the deeper in for me and uh, uh, we were we had joint military exercises with uh, between nato and ukraine, inside of the crate and western deep. Right. And uh, and then finally we had a uh bite and signed a, a strategic Strategic Partnership agreement between us and, and ukraine. Which of course was able to get us russian and all these were a necessary publications, as was just stated in this, possibly really again, with the, the 2014 coo that was authorized by then Vice President by a binding really is the common denominator in uh is starting this morning. Thats why a long been referred to as far as binds were rather include as well as itd be part ways we made it before. It was by the way that it was mix for it was victoria newlands war. I thought i kept calling it back in 2014 with carl in in bali. Well, another issue that is not mentioned it is that in this, in december 2021. Before the conflict in february 2022, russia basically sent out its terms saying we, we want to avoid a conflict here, but we will react to military and technical re means. And that was completely ignored. Again, not part of the narrative. Carl, it exactly is like, uh, this is bored and pointed out during his uh, tucker, crossing interview. Grandma Harris Actually went to europe and set hopefully get the balance that ukraine should be walk them into natal. I mean, the 2017 is when the work broke out, but its really a cumulation of the study nato expansion use worst since 1992, which is really, i mean its, its the whole purpose was to justify the continue existence of nato optical war. You know, nato was formed against soviet union, so union collapsed. Russian wanted to be friends with the west, but all the nato bureaucrats realize, wait a minute, theyre going to be out of jobs. So its all about jobs is all about jobs, and its about money and, and hubris. So i would say, okay, dan, lets take a look at the 2nd question. How is the war going . Well, according to the munich security conference, that ended up last week. So everything is basically on court. Its a, its tough, you know, tough times ahead and all that. But russia is losing ukraine is winning again. Whats wrong with that narrative, dan . Yeah, no rush, it has steadily gain ground in this war very methodically and slowly, but thats their strategy. I mean they like israel and gaza rush is actually taking great pains not to destroy a civilian infrastructure and kills civilians. And so they have slowly but surely gained a regions in the eastern ukraine, and they have widowed away at the ukraine, you know, army, to the point where, frankly, you know, as we know, ukraines been forced to now can script people off the street, elderly people, and disabled people because they have no one else left by and um, you know, theyre always on the verge of being out of munitions as well. Even the west nato was running out of munitions because of this war rush i, i think, is, it could be said to be handily winning this war. It could when it overnight, if it wanted to. Again, if it wasnt the carpet bomb key of like again the u. S. And 8 or willing to carpet bomb, you know, survey or whatever. They could do that, but they dont, you know, dan, but its really interesting is that zalinski and hes a jet set or he gets the fly all over the place of these fancy conferences, but they are poor. It is still open in care of has been during the entire conflict. It hasnt been bombed. Okay. And this is something thats it ever pointed out it, you know, david, whats really interesting, again, mentioning the munich security conferences that according to zelinski, theyre, they, theyre, that theyre facing challenges because of the republicans in the house of representatives that watch with you. You know, it does, it certainly is the us as a primarily responsible for prolonging this war. Uh there was of course the a simple Peace Agreement which was 90 Percent Complete as president and outline for it is doctor crossing the interview. And then it was a, you know, this, this was a very favorable agreement towards a, towards the pray. Uh, what is the entail the entire control Russian Forces outside of the don boss and crimea. Premier of course really was always russian, but the dog boss was much disputed. And you know, this was a, this was actually your really the ideal argument. This is kind of the that was the piece agreement, essentially that i would argue that bidens trying to get back to that, but he wouldnt be too asleep project. And so he torpedo, that the prior to that it was the biggest agreements that was really an ideal that uh, a free brain that, that was championing. Now of course, its anonymous disagreements and offices agreement that, that i called for back in september of 2022 and the national interest. You know, my own real worth of staff. And you know, that is, that is really the key. That is the key to, you know, a piece of it is an essence without pictures. A, you know, you pray or you prank and smid as victory. Nato can spend a victory. Of course, its more of a victory for russia overall, but its uh, it would be 18 percent of your grades that are actually recognized territory in neutrality, outside of nato. And those would be the 2 main terms. And most of those terms are, you know, obviously, neutrality. Yes, i mean, it was something that, uh, so lensky belatedly agreed to the day after the invasion. So. Uh yeah, no, yeah. Its all, its all a matter of coming. Coming back that commonsense and us down to peace and stability for the region. Unfortunately, were not there yet, and we wont be for a long time. You know, carol, what we, what we have here is that i didnt know weve had over the last few weeks and to all countries like germany, france, the u. K. Signing Security Agreements with ukraine. I dont know why theyre doing it in the middle of a conflict. I dont know what re crane is theyre actually talking about. And this is, you know, and on top of it, instead of trying to secure as much funding as they can from the west, nobody is talking piece, at least in the west. Nobody in nato is coughing piece. That is the biggest problem here. Exactly. I mean, the problem is not funding the United States can pres, money up to the was used for the problem is us. And to a certain extent, europe has been sold the industrialized that they can not even provide artillery shells for you create and you know, United States have over the altogether, dear trillion dollars and military budget. And yet, it can change even produce strawman military goods that needed to win was a slight artillery shots. Russia alone is all producing the desired able country combined right now is the ukraine is, i mean, the objective observer of the conflict will tell you, your brain is losing, the war is more hours clashing is manpower, is being depleted now theyre talking about sending refugee ukrainian man from the back of europe to, to, to be drafted. And theyre talking about co scripting women. I mean, how much, how could you create when theres, theres no tactful victory for your brain at this point . Well, i mean, but, but they seem to think the people and nato world think that, you know, 60 1000000000. 00. Well, theyll be there just around the corner. I cannot conceive dan, real quick. I cant even, even if they got the money, what did they go to do with it . They . Yeah, again, they dont have the troops anymore in the, in the morales thinking, i mean, i think honestly this war will be over. Im predicting by the end of the summer whether they send the 60000000000. 00 or they dont. Well, yeah, i mean, but of course this is supposed to be money that will go into potentially the next administration. So they want, it seems to me the arms dealers and all the a cut out to the n v os. They want a secured of funding into 2025. They think thats what it seems more about. Always gentlemen, its never really about ukraine, is it . Its all about the money. Its all about the grip or a gentleman. Im going to jump in here. Were going to go and go to a short break. And after that short break, well continue our discussion on ukraine. Stay with our team. The, [000 00 00;00] the release of russian states never is as tight as im one of the most sense community best, most all sense and the must be the one else holes. Question about this, even though we will fan in the European Union, the kremlin media machine, the state on russia to day and split the ortiz full neck, even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube. The question, did you say stephen twist, which is the welcome back across stock . Were all things are considered . Im Peter Lavelle to mind you were discussing. You create the okay, lets go back to david in Salt Lake City a. Lets go to the 3rd proposition. How the war will and well, its really difficult to grapple with this one because if you look at the official narrative rush, i lost a half a year ago, but theyre still looking for money to keep ukraine propped up. I mean, they cant even get that talking point straight, go get russia is already lost. So ukraine is winning. I mean, and, you know, when you, with all the social media right now, these telegram channels here, its really hard. I mean, if you have even a passing interest in, in the topic, its quite obvious that this official narrative is know, and boy, david yes, absolutely, right. I mean, do you agree is lost nearly 30 percent of its g p. That was 27 percent of his population, 18 percent of its territory. They lost a, according to the most reasonable and moderate estimates of half a 1000000 troops. Dad are seriously wounded, which is about 3 times higher than what rushes lost in rocky by a single square ridge of rough in territory. I mean, theres literally no metrics that nato could use to, to judge that uh, you agree is wayne or, yeah, we can see it here. You know, your, this, uh, this nonsense uh, i mean, uh, zalinski recently stated that the Ukraine Military consists of 600000 active duty trips. Until recently it was 1300000. So it could, the casualties actually could be over 50 percent. It could be 700000 ukrainians, killed her seriously. What it did. So it, this has been a disaster for you craven. Im preparing to write any waterfall thats nearly completed, but it should be coming to the knowledge it any unbiased observer that this has been a disaster. This whole of this whole, you pray nato membership pursued has been really just irrational. Its been absolutely give us theater. So, but a few pretty, it is in a very much so it gets the Us National Security interest as well, which is peace with russia. And we ought to be a have a Strategic Partnership with rational along the lines of uh, what was proposed in december uh by uh, the Russian Federation with their uh, mutual Security Agreement which was made on which was very fame, which was absolutely acceptable. Uh it as written and uh, as well as the one that was offered to us, which are 75 percent acceptable. Yeah, and carl, what they did, because for, for russia, it has been de to expansion and even the head of nato salt and birds. He admitted this finely, belatedly, he wouldnt say it honestly for the uh, good part of the complex when he came out and maybe it was unintended still on his part. We dont know, but he even admitted a rush. It started its military operations because of nato expansion. So what did they do . They expand nato, i think be the the youve already mentioned tucker carlson, this interview with vladimir putin. And again he was asked point blank uh, how would you like to see a ceasefire . Would you like to see an end of this conflict . And the russian president said, yes, i can. Okay, i mean, i dont know what else you can do. I mean, the most watched interview in the world. If you have a passing interest in this, you know what rushes position is, b k because it came from the president , smiled himself. But that, of course, was ignored. Carl, or exactly, its branding right now. Its still secure, be leading washington and europe. Thats driving the war, you know, we know what happened during the negotiation to do that. The early phase of negotiation to the end, the war and Horace Johnson came saying and tell you cry. No, no, no, we will back you a 100 percent. And right out, even if the west to back ukraine, 100 percent, and ukraine still cannot achieve victory. As i said earlier, the United States has been sold the industrialized. He cannot provide ukraine was the, did the munition and these wizard totally shout. You need us. Can people frame money by proctor certain point . Theyre just papers, you know what you can set 60000000000 dollars worth of paper to ukraine . Thats not going to help you bring quote. Uh well actually carl ends up mostly coming back to the suburbs in virginia. Okay. At the end of the day, i mean it, its a griff, its a huge griffin. I think thats why a lot of these people are pushing the 6 me with billions because they know its the last time theyre going to be able to feed at the trough. Okay, so they want to get paid in advance. Okay. Its a is a cynical. Yeah. But this whole idea, this whole complex is so cynical, its the most avoided avoidable conflict in my lifetime. And ive seen a lot of conflicts, you know, dan, whats really interesting and we can throw in the, the gods a dimension here. And look at this kind of globally, is that you have the west on the wrong side of issues. Okay. You have the United States in europe. So supporting a, a racist regime and, and cab a racist regime in israel. And the whole world can see this dance to know its absolutely right. I was listening to George Galloway this. Busy morning and he said, you know, the west, the sun is now setting in the west and it is now rising in the east, which is very clear as you say, the whole world sees the difference in how russia prostitutes this war, new created. Now israel prosecute the war, guys a, i think this statistic i saw was that about less than 600. 00 children have died in the special military operations in ukraine. Meanwhile, you already have Something Like 15000 children who died in gaza and intentionally so its a brutal, Brutal Campaign thats happening in gaza in a very short period of time. We also have to, you know, recognize as opposed to, you know, were now with 2 years in to the conflict and ukraine. If we started from the beginning, the special military operation. So yes, its very clear that uh, any uh, superior moral, superior or the, the west could ever climb. And that was always a dubious proposition. It cant claim it anymore. You know, its a david, i had a look at, does zalinski speech in, in munich. And it will, it would be hilarious, hilarious if it werent