Transcripts For RT The 20240703 : vimarsana.com

A situation. When it was then we could imagine as well, thanks for your company. This wednesday. Were box weighs more in about thursday. The many of you have followed the painful and infuriating. So i got julian assigned just the co founder of wiki leaks who is being held in london is notorious maximum security bellmarks prison for almost 5 years now. Before that, he was in self imposed exile in the Ecuadorian Embassy in london, the c i a, a few years ago made plans to kill or to kidnapped julian in broad daylight in the streets of london. If the us governments request to expedite him for to be unsuccessful, but that request is pending and is likely to go forward in the near future. The big question then is whether the Us Justice Department will offer julian a deal he can live with or whether hell be forced to go onto the trial for his life. Im john kerry. Ok, welcome to the whistle blowers, news. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 to me to sign just probably the most famous transparency absolutist in the world. It was julian and wiki leeks, who told us through the release of the bradley, now. Chelsea manning documents that the us had committed war crimes in iraq and afghanistan. It was julian and wiki leaks in to. Busy us through the release of the volt 7 documents that the c i a could remotely take over control of a persons car by hacking into the computer and then could force the car off the road or off a bridge or into a tree. We learned that the c, i a could take over a person smart tv and in turn, the speaker into a microphone all while the tv appear to be off. We learned about international corruption, about Money Laundering and fraud. Busy thanks to julian assigned, it was because of this never ending quest for transparency that the c i a sought to kidnap or killed julian. And the u. S. Department of justice charged him with multiple counts of espionage and other crimes amounting to 175 years in prison. Julian famously took refuge in the Ecuadorian Embassy where he was spied on relentlessly by the c i a the ecuadorian and the brit. Busy until the durians turned on him and handed him over to british authorities, hes been imprisoned in harsh conditions ever since, as the us tried to have him extradited. This is not a partisan issue in the United States Republican Donald Trump charge julian with us, be an osh an irony since trump is now charged with multiple kinds of espionage himself. But democrat joe, by new continued the prosecutor sion and has actively sought julians extradition. The bottom line is this, it is the c i a thats calling the shots in this case, the c, i a considers itself to be the victim here. And they wont stop until we get weeks is ruined. And julian assigned is either in prison for the rest of his life or dead, as we have to yes, today, both of whom are close to julia massage, and both of whom are intimately knowledgeable of the challenges. Any faces joe loria is the editor in chief of Consortium News. Hes a veteran Foreign Affairs journalist and is written for the wall street journal. The boston globe. The london Daily Telegraph and other outlets. Randy critical is a long time comedian and social justice activist. The former director of the william and counsellor fund ford social justice and the host of the radio shall live on the fly, which airs on new yorks w. B. A. I radio gentlemen. Thanks so much for being with us. Joe. Id like to begin with you. Youve attended pretty much every Court Hearing the julians been involved in from the very beginning. Things seem to have finally come to ahead. In his most recent appeal, julians attorneys argued that the Us Justice Department had not provided assurances that julian would not be executed if extradited to the United States. Was that a paper work exercise or is that a real fear . Inexplicable, why . After 4 years now, this routine matter where britain, one of them is being asked, extradite someone to a state that has the Death Penalty, routinely asks for an assurance from that state that in this particular case, it would not be sought. And your Home Office Never asked for that. We know that because and i was sitting in the court room right there, right in the row between the judge and behind me with the lawyers dot the been watching it was the kings counselor for the home office. He said that they never asked us for this assurance. I find that extraordinary, of us never offered an assurance. Again, this is routine. Why was that not happen . This is something that no one could really fully understand. Theres some speculation that its a way the for the us to get out of this situation. That is, but come politically untenable for them. Given the incredible pressure thats been put on the by heads of state. But every human rights organization, press freedom organization, etc. And of course, joe biden doesnt want julian assigned to coming, showing up on the us shores with the in chains of journalist in chains to stand trial just outside washington for publishing to information about us. They crunch, but that means it could be kicked down the road past the november election. This seems to be something else. And whats really important here about this, john, is that the high court, the 2 High Court Judges that are heard julians, the hearing on february 20 and 21 were talking about here. This is by the way, just to hearing so that drilling assange could have an appeal. This is an appeal about an appeal because he had been denied the right to have an appeal or to leave for an appeal. So those judges said in their 66 page ruling, 2 very important things on the Death Penalty. There was family blunt. Im going to quote, they said, if extradition of a shot would quote be contrary to the convention rights. Just European Commission of human rights under the british human rights act of 1998 article 3, which is against georgia in human degrading treatment to punch. In other words, the Death Penalty. Now the words, if the extradition is contrary to that right, the extradition must be refused. That means without the assurance from the United States that they will not seek the Death Penalty. Theres an automatic refusal of the tradition freelance on goes free. Why havent they given that assurance yet . Now greg murray, who is on our webcast, a Consortium News a few days ago, said he believed that at the last minute the us wouldnt give this assurance on the Death Penalty we will remain to be seen if they do, then theres a 2 week period where the lawyers for sondra can challenge that assurance to see whether it is in fact a valid one or not. And i did a Little Research about this today, and i discovered that the attorney general must in a Federal Capital punishment case. And the prosecutors cannot just asked for, they need to go to a process that includes the attorney general signing off on this to have the Death Penalty. I would assume that marriage garland would have to also approve this, i assure, and not to seek the Death Penalty. And then just to ad theres one other right that sancha has to be assured he would have and this is really an important one. And that is in conjunction with the article, 10 of the European Convention human rights, which is what the british courts go by. The equivalent of article 10, freedom of expression is the 1st amendment in United States. So the court as asked us to assure he would have 1st amendment rights as well. And we note that both my prepare, i c, i, a director and gordon crumpler, the chief prosecutor here. Both said that a science would not have 1st amendment rights or that could be taken from him. And there was a Supreme Court decision that said that of non us citizens have no 1st amendment rights. If they, especially if theyre committed, the alleged crime outside the United States, which is the case here. So you, the fact is though, and we have marjorie coming out on that same webcast saying that the separation of powers in the us means that the executive branch, the department of justice cannot interfere with a court would say about whether those rights should be granted or not so the us cannot grant 1st amendment rights to julie massage, cannot do it because of that Supreme Court decision because its up to the judge whether he would get those rights or not. And the Supreme Court enrolled in a case that the foreigners and not have 1st memory. So what does that mean . Well, heres where theres a difference because the high court in their willing said, and i quote this, that if the song just quote, not permitted to rely on the 1st amendment, then it is arguable. That is, expedition would be incompatible with article 10 of the convention. In that case, a drilling would be free. But unlike the buy in cloud language, the beloved language on the desk. But if they dont give the insurance, he has to be discharged, hes gone free. Know extradition on the a free speech issue. Its, theres some wiggle room in the language of the court saying that he only has an arguable case. So that would be argued apparently at the appeals court, but just to finish, i would point out that the cape Crown Prosecution Service on their website says that in all like tradition cases, the judge must consider whether the extradition would be compatible with the request of person human rights and the judge finds that a traditional good not think about of what the required persons human rights that persons extradition can not be ordered of the judge must discharge this, so included and those human rights is article 10. So according to the Crown Prosecution Service, you would have to be released as well on the fact that he didnt get an insurance on 1st amendment or free speech rights, which the Us Department of justice cannot issue. Because its up to the judge and the Supreme Court decided a fine, it doesnt have those. Right. So im thinking this looking a lot better for joining us on you. And at 1st glance at this very complicated, really, right, randy, youre also tied to the various assign support groups. Actually. All, all even go farther than that. You do more than just about anybody i know in the, in the assign support groups as well as julians to julians wife and, and to some of these more prominent supporters. What are you hearings about hearing about plans for extradition . How are those closest to julian preparing for it . And what do they expect to do once he gets to the United States as well, to be honest with you, im not really that direct. Yeah my, i know theyre saying im pretty low around i believe that you can get him on the street as a master street is the only thing to say and thats why youve seen the early spring. I would say a 150. 00 days last year. As more caden and trying to organize rather than just dont get to the core test and on his birthday or something major anniversary date. I think its something that has to be pursued on a daily basis. You would only jo, weve been hearing many rumors over the past several weeks that Justice Department, prosecutors, and julians attorneys are involved in talks not necessarily and negotiations, but in talks that might result in julian accepting some sort of a plea deal in exchange for time served he would then be expelled back to us trail yet presumably where he could then live in freedom with his wife and children. What are you hearing . Are these serious talks . And are they at an advanced stage to . Well, i do know that there were definitely talks to, at some point, and then truly into so much as you pointed out on sputnik radio last week. John, that you knew that there was a deal and julian turned down. So youd have to agree to the espionage act, which is an extremely courageous thing for him to have for him to have done denying his own freedom, his personal freedom to get the hell out of belmont prison. Because he did not want a future drug wants to be charged for it. Espionage. So that deal fell apart. And you look at the language of the statement, the barry pollock, julians lawyer in washington said he, it sounds like a lot of people, i think misinterpreted this, that there is no tops. But if you look at it calculates very lauraly constructed statement. Look at the language, it says that the Justice Department has shown no intention to resolve this matter. That doesnt mean they havent tried. It means just a way of saying were disappointed because we, we, theyre not really serious about this, but that, that they havent had discussions. But do, do get the impression of right now. There are no discussions going on now. So they came to a standstill. Most likely because julian agreed just turned down that play deal that had already been discussed. But there are new parameters. Now that might be a possible here, john, and this was 1st born up by our, by a bruce upfront and a constitutional lawyer in a, in our webcast of last august. When he pointed out that julian may be able to a plea to a missed scrambling of classified material charge, which is a misdemeanor with a 5 year maximum term, which is already served 5 years in belmont. So theoretically, if you agree to that in the us allowed that he could walk free, you wont even have to go to australia for any more time. This is a possibility. First weighs by bruce upfront in august. And bruce also said he would have to do that remotely. In other words, from london, theres nothing against the ways of a lead for someone whos outside United States to uh, andrew, to play agreement remotely from another country. It doesnt have to come to the us and that is something he will not do. Gabriel shipped in johns julian brother and made it very clear. Theres no way its going to go there because the u. S. Could change their mind once he arrived a funny enough that wall street journal article now 2 weeks ago talked about mishandled and classified information and doing a remotely exact same things that bruce from said and our webcasts last august. So this will be something truly mishondra. I think could agree to a misdemeanor would have to be conspiracy to mishandled classified data because the law, as a witness for Government Employees, thats the one i think trump was charged on, or they didnt charge biden under. So hed have to go to a conspiracy with chelsea, man, and was a Government Employee to mishandled classify data and hed have to do it remotely. If those are the terms. I think that julian could agree to that. I also think that the he seems to be maybe in the drivers seat a lot more than i thought previously could, shouldve what i just said about those 2 shorts. They can give the insurance on the 1st amendment. And if crap ask for services, right. He cannot be extradited then, certainly on the Death Penalty insurance, he cannot be extradited unless they get that. So that probably would come through if they missed the april 16th deadline for those insurance is then well have an appeal and it gets kicked down the road. So i think that is a plea deal john that assigns could take if the us gives it to randy in the event, the julian is indeed extradited. Active. Its like you will take up the mantle of his defense on the street. Youve organized countless actions in support. Of joint assigns, including very well received advertising trucks. What do you expect to do when he arrives in the United States for trial as well . Um, i dont expect them to write United States. Uh, but uh, yeah, yes, exactly. Does arrive in the United States, then the only thing you can do is to carry on organize. We dont have, you know, theres been a d, c. Ive been on the streets of d. C. For so long out there and youve seen that truck. And as i read it here, and you talked to people on the streets, theyre not that interested. You know, the people that are support june assigned or are they really gung ho uh in support or just like, you know, as liberals obviously a bad thing or are they willing to get out there . Thats. Thats the test. Yeah. Or really do they know . Yeah. You know, people are on this here, youre on the streets, you want to go directly to the people and everyones all their cell phone is the issue and theyre not even working. So youve got to grab their attention. Its the new opium get, you know, the whole world on their cell phones all the time. They should, they should go to cellphone. Amount of this, isnt that the truth . Im telling you its, its, its a real problem. I go onto the subway and ive got the wires lan, my spare time and speech they give you. My extension is i think is a read news, labor magazines or books or really theyre looking at theres oh yeah. Reading told those that yes, i can promise you that jewelry and really critical. Thank you so much for being with us. Were just scratching the surface of this important issue. When we come back, well talk about what julian assigns can expect in the United States and why many of his supporters remain so hopeful the, to the. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 the or the, [000 00 00;00] the, the welcome back to louis of louis. Im going to reaku. Were speaking with 2 important supporters of julian, assange, journalist and Consortium News editor joe loria and active listening radio host, randy credit, co, joe. And randy, thanks again for being with us. Thank you, jeff. Good to see you joe. And you and i have had conversations about assurance is that the Justice Department has given the u. K. Courts and julians attorneys. Assurance is that really are not worth the paper that they are printed on. For example, prosecutors have promised the julian would not be placed in solitary confinement, or in a restrictive present Communications Management unit. They dont have the authority to make such a promise. Those decisions are made solely by the federal bureau of prisons. What has been the u. K. Judges, reactions to these promises, the judges understand that the promises are empty. No, i think youre referring to the 20, the 20, 22 october hearing of doing a sunshine and the high court. That was a us appeal to overturn the lower courts decision not to extradite him based on his mental health, his propensity for suicide and the conditions of us prisons. The judge never asked for assurances that you didnt have to ask for goals discharges the us and why didnt you ask us . So they put these assurances in after the trial was lost by them after the hearing. The expedition hearing was lost by them and they went to the high court in the high Court Without allowing a sondors lawyers to challenge to which they will be able to this time thats on progress and they are as well. So. 9 that they accepted those assurances they didnt challenge to hide the extra the Lower Court Judges decision that the about the mental health, the condition risk prism, they just accepted the you as problems. And as you point out, john, those decisions are not made by the department of justice by the prosecutors that we are doing what prison drilling would go into. Its done by the bureau of prisons. But i do also by an input from the c i, which a former b o p official testified at julians extradition hearing about that this j would have input. So at least this time theyre going to allow solve his lawyers to challenge these assurances because the ones in that other court were not worth the paper they were written as, as Amnesty International pointed out in those very words, really tell us, tell us a little bit about activism on julians behalf on the street here in the United States. Ive participated in many, many protests as have you where there are no more than a dozen people. But then we see video of pro assange demonstrations elsewhere around the world in sydney, in london, in berlin, where there are tens of thousands of people participating. Why are we not seeing those numbers in the us . And do you expect that to change the same way . You dont see a lot of people in the streets in europe, but out there protesting for miss mo, mia or for leonard peltier. I suppose they dont know about the cases. People who dont know about the case, those who do those reward forms or act this lot. We dont have the kind of energy in, in the, in the kind of commitment that we have the sixties and the 80. Some people are out there marching for civil rights and the gay rights and the, and of course to, and the warm via them. And then as a, in the eightys in the, in the central america. I mean, i, im a product of that. I and so at, at this point you dont see that many people, its not, i know, and dc, you see 10 or 12 people there. Thats probably the most difficult left a crack in the one i romilly. Thats the most important one. The crack is to get lot of people on the streets in dc. Yes. But thats, thats been the most resistant of all the cities ive been in in new york city. Its better. We have these uh, events in front of the british consulate. We just had one, there was about 200 people there. So wait. And then whenever roger waters wasnt there this last time on the 20th of february. But in the, in the past, when he would show up, our system surrounded would show you a lot more people. But if you did, if he didnt, once a week, you draw 91012 people its, its very difficult. And d, c, you draw and theres some hard core supporters of them. I mean, youre going to get 4 or 5 people in front of the Justice Department or in front of the, the white house. You know, when i, i, im there just to be in the truck driver or on the street. Youre driving around and just trying to, you know, trying to, you know, must erupt, some kind of energy and visibility going in front of the alexandra coronel says, for people should be yes, i get there a big a big a, get a support group down there. There isnt there to have hard core group down there and, but theres like a huge, a group of maybe, you know, medium supporters decides to be out there. I mean, should be out in front of the court house in alexandria, but its so far away. Thats not like a liberal city there in alexandria or that part of alexandria. So it may, its, its inundated with the, you know, National Security state, the current and former personnel. So thats where the you draw the jury pool. And then of course it just, it like its hard to get to but that still while thats the place that i would be if i could get people out there, i drive by it all the time. Ive never seen anybody except for the time you and i were there to see daniel hale. Yes. That was the biggest demonstration ive ever seen in front of that building without a doubt, without a doubt. Yeah. And yeah. What, what do you mean . Like, whats funny is it that, that courthouse lends itself to 2 demonstrations. Theres a nice big plaza right in front of it. Thats perfect for demonstrations. It is anything that perfect sense, the cabin plaza in brooklyn, braces imagery, and against the new yorks races. Rockefeller drug was like, go out for the cabinet pod was perfect. And the only thing that compares to that is whats outside the alexandria Eastern District of virginia courthouse. Joe and you and i have both spoken with mainstream american journalists who either will not take a position on julians case or who are hostile to him. And this is despite the fact that they and their news outlets have used the information that we can weeks has revealed in their own reporting. One important journalist with whom i spoke, said that julian is not a journalist, but an activist. Even if people dont believe hes a journalist though they have to can see that hes a publisher. Why is there so much push back in the American Media either just gets a friend in the mainstream media. I mean, i used to be a for more than 20 years in the mainstream and i know the pressures that are involved, theyre the, what is allowed on whats not allowed. You just notice if you want us to 5, and if your career is doesnt, almost everyone isnt the managed media. Youre going to be doing what you need to do to get ahead of your this gets a for any of the New York Times putting out a statement with dish you go without pays with live home. And with the guardian, the 5 partners of julian mentioned partners of julian in the 2010 publication that has gotten in trouble right now that hes been indicted on thats in the actual diamond or they put out a statement saying dropped the case because this is a threat to the 1st amendment to the free press, so on that level could have been pushed by the lawyers. I mean, the lawyers at the New York Times of the other publication may send you. But to put this out here, do what i think they were reluctant about putting that out because for the most, thats one side of it. And then the other side, they are disparaging him as you just said, they dont see him as a journalist because he is not protecting the stablish. Whats interesting is undermining and challenging and threatening those interest. And the whole row of the mainstream journalist is to support the agenda of the United States, particularly in Foreign Affairs. What not do you not going to have a mainstream journalist agreeing with julia sondra . What do you get . However, they did publish those doctors. So this is why theres this wheeled internal conflict going on, i think in the mainstream, on the one hand, they know its a threat to the 1st amendment. On this, the other hand, they say hes not a journalist. On the one hand, they published what he gave them because they add to had they not, they would have been exposed as the frogs. They generally are jo, gloria and randy credit goes thanks so much for being with us. Id like to think that it is not adversity that makes us the people we are so much as it is the way we respond to adversity. Julia massage is one of the office and the most resilient people i have ever met. Hes paying a huge personal price for what he believes it, but hes not doing it for himself. Hes doing it for all of us. And now its up to us to be there for him. Id like to thank our guests, jewelry and really credit go for joining us and providing their insights. And thanks to our viewers for joining us for another episode of the whistle blowers, im john kerry. I can find me on subset at john kerry onto well see you next time. 2 2 2 2 2 2 the the, the disturbing images it has at least 11 people, including children are killed in and is really are striking on our refugee camp in central gals that caused the death toll there since october, 7th, reportedly in years 34000 people. Also coming up the georgia in prime minister, it pushes for the adoption of us. Foreign agents law does the countrys president s vows the veto, which we discussed the controversial bill with our correspondence. We just returned to moscow after being the port. Its on said police say we got too much attention from the f b i security agencies wherever we came to the west. The creator of the telegram up