Transcripts For RT Worlds 20240704 : vimarsana.com

A day show. Our josh worlds apart is up. Next. The welcome to was a part the 19th century. What was considered the continuation of politics by other means, but in todays world, that sentiment, it was even more to the economy youre supposed to, makers are pretty open about seeing america for germany. And dominance as means to come nomic prosperity and development. But do they approach it in a sustainable manner . Well, to discuss that, im now enjoying by jeffrey sachs, director of the center for Sustainable Development as colombia, you know, for a city professor sikes in 2nd grade on a great pleasure for me to talk to thank you very much for your time. My pleasure. Thank you. Now, and been pretty outspoken about the influence of vested interest on the years, domestic and Foreign Policy, particularly in the funding of all the military campaigns abroad. But it looks like the number im in town sent to you. Of all the conflicts seems to be out stripping the capacity off even to be humorous, such as the us military Industrial Complex. How did it come to this . Well, its very interesting. You started with the vine flowers, which so who said that war is the continuation of politics with other means and i think he was right. He wrote that in 18. 32. And here we are 2022 and it still makes a lot of sense. He had a real understanding that these wars dont just come out of anywhere. They, they actually top out of politics, but you raise a very good question. What is the nature of the politics . So at one level, the war and ukraine, for example, in my view, was a war of nato enlargement in the United States decided a way back when died already at least 27 years ago. When we have one account of it, that nato would enlarge to ukraine, rushes from van till this small would have said no wait. But then comes the question, why does the us do this . And i think that there are i in 2 different categories of answers. One is that the United States just wants to be the global head, your mind. It wants to be the biggest power and it wants to habits pieces on every place on the world. Chessboard i, the other is that its business. I that a somehow theres Good Business that comes out of that approach. Now they could be related guy because what is the business . So partly its the word business itself. I. Thats a trillion dollar your business, at least even bigger. And 2nd, by having military base is all over the world. The us things that it controls the flows of resources, it gets more oil. Uh, it, uh, is able to determine where it pipelines go and so on. So theres another view which says that its politics in the service of the world, the investment profile, well, a lot less focus on that investment profile in the business side of things. Because one would thing that in richmond or basic greed wouldnt be concerned with prolonging itself. They would want their own version of Sustainable Development to make sure that you know, the machine keeps operating and turning out process. Why the, with all the budget, the responding on ukraine, the yours warm machine doesnt seem to be sort of fully affectively availing itself of the law. Such an opportunity is the war in your credit because we know full well that the ukrainian so, so perilously short, the munitions on weapons on everything else. If its just business, why when they bat are about making money . Well, the interesting thing is the public is sick of his own. The American People dont want our government just spending the money on these wars which are bit trillions of dollars. But they see that the budget deficit is huge. The debt keep is rising, they keep being told we cant have health care or dental care, or i care or your children cant get help for school because the budget is in crisis and then bite and comes along. It says no, no, no, theres 61000000000 here, and 14000000000 for is real and this much for this. So the publics against it. Yep. Its still passes the 7th. And it passes the 7th despite the public opposition, because the senators, by and large are agents of the military Industrial Complex i and they do, its bidding, the American People do not think this is a good investment as theyre ready to as, as an Economic Advisor to them, but of course self appointed, i will say to them, its not a good investment. This is allows the investment for the United States. Were not getting rich out of this, youre not benefiting from this. This is a waste of money and a waste of time. And a waste of lives, but it is quite persistent. And one reason why a process is that when the soviet union ended in december 1991, the people in charge and those who came to be in power felt, you know, theres really no obstacle. We can do what we want. So part of it is an incredible arrogance, that everything anyway isnt going to be very expensive. These people are not very clever. I, in my opinion, that are in power in the United States. They spent 7 trillion dollars in afghanistan and in iraq, ukraine, syria, libya, what have we got and for nothing, let me ask you about the people because uh, the United States, private cellphone being a democracy in the model one. And as you wrote, all those failed war, since 2000 have caused the American People around 5 trillion dollars in direct outlays, or around for 2000. 00 per household, there are many indirect expanses as well, like the support for the veterans, the Crime Statistics you know, the health care crisis, prescription drugs, crisis, etc. What allows the American Society a to be so resilient into taking so many expenses without clear returns and without much of a policy change . Because i have to tell you that, i think in russia it will not pass the russians would not have been so lived in. Well, its interesting, you know, 1st america, its an extremely rich countries. It really is a rich country average of uh, average income, 70000. 00 per person. So a lot of money after all its, its a very a, uh, its been very productive, very lucky in many ways a great resource base. So there, squandering a lot of it right now. Can you imagine a country this rich i and its like in the soviet union and the in the last year is the Life Expectancy has been going down. Basically for the last 10 years in the United States, we have addictions, we have a rise of depression, i mass obesity. So many problems. Its because the social fabric is not holding together, even though theres well so the political system does not function properly. Its in the hands of individual lobbies. The convers is especially corrupt because every congressman spends most of the time i making phone calls for money for re election campaign. So its non stop going to rich people. A few days ago, i was walking home from my office in manhattan on the Upper West Side and the broadway. I was completely closed on one side. When i got home i found out, well, president bide, was in town now. Why was he in town . And he was in and to talk to rich donors not to talk to the public, not to have an event, not to meet with the people, to raise money. Because thats what the Political Class does. Now that ties in with these wards because people do make money on divorce, not the public, public loses, but rafia know, or, or General Dynamics or boeing or northrop grumman. They make a lot of money and they fund the politicians and were told it just, it couldnt be clear a and more crude. The white house puts out maps to the congressman showing look, look at the arms of factories in your district. Be careful. Those are jobs in your district. Youre always in the war as business, not war, even as policy by the section. We dont have respects, i understand that the politicians are doing that. I mean, theyve been doing that for decades and it hasnt been that apparent to the people, but you know, im surprised that the americans would take and saw much, and i say so that the, the somebody who knows in your country pretty well. And i remember that even even 20 years ago when i cited there. Sure, it was a very prosperous country, but ordering other folks people working at our university, one of the 3 ish, and they had to save on, on gas and on food and everything else. And im sure theyre in the majority, and i, i agree with you. So by, you know, the public is, is quite unhappy. The universities are a bit of a surprise to me because when i went to the university was a long time ago. But i started, i undergraduate 50 years ago. So its really a long time i, the universities were against the establishment. That was the student rebellions against the vietnam war. Now, i, the universities are more and more in the hands actually, of government contracts. I the Foreign Policy center, so the universities are paid for by the military companies. Theyre paid for by the us government. So im surrounded by former government officials or one of the future government officials who told the us line i have a different perspective because, you know, when i worked at brush or from but more than 30 years ago, i spend most of my time working around the world, so i look at the United States from outside look again, rather than from the inside. Im not on the team of the us government, but a lot of people are and that has definitely re shaped the critical thinking. Now when it comes to the public, the publics discussed it. Donald trump won the presidency in 2016 as a, as a protest vote. He said he would clean up the swap. Well, he made more swamps in some places, did other things. He was a very unstable character guy. We still cant figure him out. I the im is a very main stream i part of the supporter of the, of the military Industrial Complex and deep state. So we return kind of to normal. I and that has been at the political level, the public is very unhappy if you ask the American People who do you want trump or by may say, neither please can we have another choice. So the politics is not working right now. The political system is really in a crisis process thats we have to take a very short break right down the table. Be back in just a few moments station, the, [000 00 00;00] the, [000 00 00;00] the welcome back to ones a parts with jeffrey sachs, director of the center for Sustainable Development that the Columbia University professor sacks. Im sure you watched vladimir put in risk in this interview with Tucker Carlson and not just to you, i mean just edging by and by this number off of use, a lot of americans are paying attention to that as well. And before we discuss the substance of it, i, i want to ask you a different question because because a couple of days later, mister colson showed up into, by where a journalist, asking what i thought was a very interesting question here, ask whether President Biden understands the law of action and reaction that moves a country like russia and i want to ask you the same question. But with regards to the American Society, do the american, the leads understand what moves the American People and the lives the red lines. Beyond which they better not to push because as with all the resilience of the American Society, im sure there are certain, you know, basic human needs that needs to be mapped. I dont think a washington listens at all, either internally or internationally. So washington could not hear the russian red lines. In fact, as a matter of principle, if the boot you said it, it must not be true will, will bluff our way, well do whatever. But internally, also there is a certain, a sense i that, well, we will create our own narrative. We will create our own reality. I, the job of politics is narrative creation. Its making the new cycle and so forth. So its not listening. Its not thinking its not trying to find solutions. So from this i, im sorry for interrupting, but its almost unbelievable to me because i remember, well, like when bill clinton was running for the white house. He said its very um, you know, publicly its, its the economy stupid. And the American People are known for that pragmatism that known for the, you know, material considerations after all your a country that to capitalism, into the global level. So theres such a national traits to your country that have to be known and respected by the leaders if they want to keep the country together. What are those red lines . The thing that the americans should, the american leaders rather should be aware and capital about just to tell you, i do know, i have argued with this white house, so as much as they want to listen to me are, do i do about the ukraine war and i told them its terrible, the whole idea of nato, enlargements ridiculous, but beyond that, its bad politics for you. So thats what i was telling them exactly that line, aside from every thing else, this is lousy politics. I say the same thing with the way that these politicians are backing israel without any constraint is real, creates this massacre in, in gaza. Its lousy politics in addition to allows the policy. Theyre not very good at this. Bidens Approval Rating is 30, somebody has already the what may happen to that old society. And because im in america, has interviewed and many foreign countries, it knows what mass process a process can turn into. It can be pretty ugly. I mean, its a, its a pretty dangerous game when you push this aside, you through the limit, im not saying the america, the American Society is there, but it seems to be moving into that direction. If we look at just the, you know, basic statistics. Its been about 30 years since the United States political system has been able to really address any single issue i. This is my adult life watching this. We are paralyzed on almost anything on basic issues. A Climate Change your energy or health care reform. Or, you know, quality your tax system, its been basically paralysis for a few decades. Its not even by the way, the polarization, thats the common phrase that americans, red and blue are so divided. Thats actually not the problem. The problem is that washington is paralyzed. Theyve got corrupted by money. It got corrupted by lobbying, it got corrupted by political advisors who think that the idea is been not thinking. You know, when, when the president put in is a interview with Tucker Carlson came out. The dominant reaction was too long. Its rambling, you know, because their Attention Span is down to 10 seconds or 30 seconds. Its like watching people who cannot think. You look at the major newspapers New York Times are washington post, how they covered the interview. It was all on the most superficial questions. Oh, did, Tucker Carlson, intervene, shouldve done this. Was the opening history, rambling and so forth. Not what was said, what was analyzed. Is it true . How should the us respond . None of that because theres no thinking going on. Its a game and you were among the people who advised the russian government on how to reform the crumbling slowly of the economy. And this is a parent that is known and rushes. The shock therapy. I know that you advocated against that, you know, punishing a, as a stereotype of this happens on the non, the less, if the, you know, this term, the society in the, in a very profound way. I mean, the rates of suicide, the rates of crime, the rain so far, you know, abortion, what have you, people were, you know, to some extent losing that humanity and a very, very fast and sometimes very cool way. I wonder if in a way of russia or perhaps boots in personally returning the United States, this historical favor of exposing that now the american view of the world, the way its economy is prioritized as structured, is divorced from reality. Could that be a sort of a shock therapy, if not, hopefully for the American Society, then is least for its leaders. Yeah, just its, its worth the understanding this very quickly. Which is why was i asked to help 1st by president gorbachev. And then by president yeltsin, because when i help poland, i said to the United States and europe and the item ask, canceled their debts, gives them something to help create a stabilization fund, a 10 to the social crises. My recommendation was 30000000000. 00. Emergency help to stabilize things in the United States. That flap, no. Are you kidding . Were not going to help the soviet union. Then. When the soviet union ended in december, i 1991 and i was literally in the room. When did it happen to the kremlin . Because president yeltsin came across the room and said, gentlemen, because was all man i, the soviet union has ended. I and i said, you know, the United States is going to help you. Its going to help you, mister president. I and yeltons the president yeltsin said we want to be a normal cooperative country. Any, any did. And that was russias view, and thats what president bush is said as well. I watched this close up the United States could not accept. Yes. And thats, you know, my, thats was my role trying to help, but the United States was against it. Thats why i couldnt do any help. But, but my point, my point is that what we really learned was that the deeper issue wasnt communism or democracy or anything else. It was the United States wants to be the world power. And if youre another big country like china or like russia, as the United States does not want you there in that way, and that is really the deeper motivation. Im sorry to say thats what president booth says the interview in essence, which is but 1991 didnt change all that much because uh, russia said okay were, were not, were a democracy. Were now we want to cooperate the United States at the way. Youre still yeah. To be dominance as an agenda. I mean if we look at it objectively, if i also have to have some business planned to it. If you want to add shipments unit to calculate the names of the goals and to make sure that you know your, your balance to these is an order from what youre saying. And from what youve been writing, it appears that the United States just claims dominance. But it doesnt do any sort of homework to ensure that it has the resources, the capacity is this strategy, the tactics to ensure and without it, i dont understand how this people imagine the dominance will stay with them. I mean, its like its, its not just Wishful Thinking of seem to be a, you know, they say, well, perhaps. Yeah, but yeah, so, and so the answer is, uh, the answer is 1st, they live in the past. I because the us was relatively more powerful and 1992 by the clearly lives in the past. You how we use it, use a man of the past that a lot of my former colleagues and harvard because now im at columbia and so forth. 0, all right, were still the most powerful. They all look at the data, right . They dont understand actually. And the American People have been told all along. Everythings cheap. You could go to take over a rock. Its cheap. Dont worry. Ive gotten a standards cheap ukraine, its cheap. We could do all of this on the cheap, you dont never have to pay taxes again because all they do is cut the taxes and then over extend the military. So the type is no politician asked the American People, do you really want to pay for a germany and are all i think very naive. Im not deeply impressed by the analytical power of this Security State that i live in. I think they get it wrong. And they are partly bluffing because if you really low sequence to sequence at ukraine war for example, it was a series of bluffs. The 1st block was ok, nato is going to expand. Russia said no, then cant be on a cold, but were going to be neutral. Okay. Be us will help over throw you on a co, which no consequence. No, no work consequences. Dont boss broke away. Yeah. Cry me, i was re taken into russia. Then i got a 2021 president. Put you put on a draft Security Agreement between the us and russia. I talked to the white house, take it, this is right. Stop the nato expansion. Avoid the wor, no, no, we dont have to do that. Big thought though never be a mobilization by putting he wont fight, we can back down our, our sanctions will defeat brochure. You know, its Wishful Thinking and gambling but with our money and our end ukraines lives opposite. So i think the answer is there is a group that profits even when its a disaster, thats the military Industrial Complex, thats quite powerful. There is a group of gamblers and there is a lot of value because i have one last question to ask you about that. The interview that puts in gave a, the very, out of it. He made a very interesting statement. He said that in hes new, the miscalculations and mistakes of the us policy in the ukraine, and now apparent. And it is his interest on the authors of the, of the policy sort of want an o from. But he made it clear that the russia is not going to be offering any se, saving that measure. So essentially, he said, you know, you created this mass. Think about how youre going to extricate yourself from this. Do you think thats a smart position and how can the possibly data itself out of this mass after everything has been said and done . To my mind at the core of this has been uh, a god, a mistake by the United States, which is to have a Foreign Policy goal of weakening russia and surrounding brochure with nato. That policy needs to change. If the United States came back to the russian leadership and said, you know, we made, we really made a mistake made or was not going to enlarge to ukraine and to georgia. I, we should. And this war, we should find true security arrangements for your region and for europe more generally. Im pretty confident that there could be a mutually beneficial i solution that would include a viable ukraine and to i. And that in my view is, is really the case. But in order to get there, actually i, there has to be a discussion and my do you use that present or buy a new president putting you need to talk. Ive said that repeatedly publicly and privately, in the United States for years, going back before 2022. And i will say it again that you cannot solve this without sitting down. And this is not ukraine and russia sitting down. This is the United States and russia sitting down and talking about a serious way to have mutual respect. And they have mutual security because thats absolutely whats needed for this world of source. And one thing i would add is that before sitting down, they also have to sit down and, you know, do that Balance Sheets and calculate how much money they have and how much more money they need for solving all the domestic problems. Because it is, this is ultimately what Sustainable Development is all about, you know, being responsible and thrifty with your National Resources and making them serve yourself. When all of this started this bravado back in 2000, the us that was 35 percent of gdp, the public debt. Now the public debt is a 100 percent of g d, p. And the prospects are, its just going to continue to sore. So this is the unreality just added to the debt. And of course, its deeply corrosive for the long term for the United States. And yep, its been a great to talk to you for a 1st year sykes, and they say about those issues. Thank you very much. For your time. Good to be with you. Thanks so much. Thank you. Im thank you for watching. I hope to say were again, all the parts the, [000 00 00;00] the, the way are in moscow, standing in front of one of russias most iconic symbols and embodies greece, elegance and articles on a grandiose scale theatre the, theres no end in sight over how youre going to continue to destroy the earth is