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And that number, it's growing every day. the destruction ranges from roads and bridges to factories and apartment blocks, and the cost of rebuilding all of that when the fighting is over will be enormous. and ukraine simply can't afford it all by itself. but one organisation that's already looking at how it can help is the european bank for reconstruction and development, known as the ebrd. it was set up to help rebuild central and eastern europe after the fall of communism in russia 30 years ago. so i've come to its headquarters here in london to catch up with its president. 0dile renaud—ba...

We expand loans to clients in the private sector, a bit of our activity also in the public sector, for example, in key infrastructure that will be important for the development of the market economy, private sector companies and so forth. and this makes you one of the right organisations, if you will, to help rebuild ukraine, then? yes, because ukraine has been one of our first countries of operation. we've invested a lot in ukraine in the last 30 years. we are one of the most important, the most important, international investor in the country. before the war, we were investing something like...

More expensive to rebuild. yes, indeed, it's going to be more expensive. but also, the war has not only an impact now today, it has not only an impact on ukraine, but it has also an impact on all the economies. and we've been looking at the impact on all our countries of operation. it may have different channels of impact, but all countries will be affected by the war, either through energy prices, gas prices, energy security, food prices or the need, for example, for countries in central asia, they need to completely reorganise their economic infrastructure, logistics and so forth because of ...

And what's one of the origin of what came with hitler and nazism and so forth. so i think that for europeans, this is a part of the memory and we need to keep that in mind. but this debate will have to take place. this might be a hard a hard question to answer, because the war is still ongoing, as you and i sit here. but once the war is over, how long would it take to rebuild ukraine? a few years. a few years, several years. it's clear, and it depends there, again, at the level of destruction and so forth. but several years. but i think what is very important at the current juncture and to lim...

Cities in ukraine. and that would, i guess, well, it would mean companies are going to be somewhat reluctant to to bring in international expertise to help the reconstruction. no, i really agree that this is a very, very likely scenario and that we are not going to move very swiftly from war to peace and reconstruction. it's very difficult to engage into reconstruction and new investment in a country where you don't know how long this will stay and whether there is a risk of destruction very quickly. and for an institution like us, for banks, it's particularly challenging because the risk is v...