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Point, that because they are talking about how to lower taxes, that's the center of his campaign, we should know how much taxes people like him pay. i mean, he's run g on the idea that people like him need a big tax break, and so if he's paying -- well, we already know he paid 13.9%, which is a lot less than i pay and a lot less than most viewers pay and the other years are almost certainly less than that, and so how is that not germane to the kind of central issue in this campaign? >> well, congress had passed the law that created these incentives, so if it's 13% or 20%, like president obama ...

He paid $3 million in taxes. his entire income comes from where? well, investments in capital gains. dividends, and interest. the maximum tax rate he could pay on his income is at 15%. but you also have to factor in 4.8 million he declared as a loss carried over from prior years. romney's final rate after deductions is at 13.9%. mitt romney says he doesn't know if he ever paid a lower rate than 13.9%. and senator john mccain says his campaign saw 23 years worth of tax returns? mccain said last month, i can personally vouch for the fact there was nothing in his tax returns that would in any way...

That's a much more outrageous charge than the charge that romney has used a really standard accounting trick that, again, there's a piece in u."u. news & world report" right now about how romney could have done this. he probably didn't do it for ten years, but it's not beyond the realm of possibility at all. >> it may not even be illegal to do what he has done. >> that's kind of the point, right? the point is that we're in the middle of a big debate about what is the proper tax rate for millionaires and for the 1% in this country? and this is a kind of demonstration of how the current tax syst...

Want us to see. >> the big calculation is he thinks this will hurt him with the american people. they won't comprehend any of the stuff because they don't live like this. here is romney asked about his tax rate from abc news. >> we know that there was one year when you paid about a 13.9% tax rate. can we clear this up by asking you a simple yes or no question? was there ever any year when you paid lower than the 13.9%? >> i haven't calculated that. i'm happy to go back and look. >> david, is it possible mitt romney can't calculate what his tax rate was in prior years? >> no, it is not possible...

Standard accounting trick that, again, there's a piece in "u.s. news & world report" right now about how romney could have done this. he probably didn't do it for ten years, but it's not beyond the realm of possibility at all. >> it may not even be illegal to do what he has done. >> that's kind of the point, right? the point is that we're in the middle of a big debate about what is the proper tax rate for millionaires and for the 1% in this country? and this is a kind of demonstration of how the current tax system works. i mean, the fact is is that he released tax returns that showed him payin...