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>> i -- we formed the company in 2000 to do real estate. >> that was in his office? >> no. we were in the building. we were in trump tower. we were on the 24th floor. the trump organization is on the 26th floor. i basically knocked on his door, said i think we should become partners. i have great real estate deals. i'm going to be a very successful developer and you want to work with me. >> it's a trr jumpian move. >> i don't know. i think it was a very felixian move. >> did you guys get along? >> yes. >> how would you characterize your relationship? >> friendly. >> talked lot? >> sometimes a ...

>> that was in his office? >> no. we were in the building. we were in trump tower. we were on the 24th floor. the trump organization is on the 26th floor. i basically knocked on his door, said i think we should become partners. i have great real estate deals. i'm going to be a very successful developer and you want to work with me. >> it's a trr jumpian move. >> i don't know. i think it was a very felixian move. >> did you guys get along? >> yes. >> how would you characterize your relationship? >> friendly. >> talked lot? >> sometimes a lot. >> when you were working on a deal, talked a lot, ta...

Judge of character. i sort of figured ha they couldn't be regular joes. >> i ask because that's a looming -- that's something that looms over this whole story. it looms over donald trump and his campaign. did they knew who they were talking to. let me ask you this, how did you meet donald trump? >> i -- we formed a company in 2000 to do real estate development. >> that was in his office? >> no, we were in the building. we were in trump tower. we were on the 24th floor. trump organization was on the 26th floor. i basically knocked ob his door, said i think we should become partners. have i grea...

Cable. i figured i'll have a transatlantic cable and i can sell phone minutes, phone cards, et cetera, et cetera. now, telecommunications in the soviet union and then in russia was pretty much controlled by russian intelligence hard-core. >> so you start talking to those people. >> i started talking to telecommunications executives who clearly were intelligence operatives. >> are you the kind of guy that knows when you're talking to an intelligence operative. >> no, but i'm a pretty good judge of character. i sort of figured ha they couldn't be regular joes. >> i ask because that's a looming -...

These dominated the news and dominated the news agenda to literally years. what's striking to me in the trump era is the stormy daniels story a month or so ago, this story, they all seem to get lost in the whirlwind. so just to connect it to our last statement, i think donald trump pays a heavy price in his policy agendas for the kind of constant swirl of allegations and attacks and twitter storms on the substantive side. on the political side, think it works for him. these allegations, they seem to come and go like straw in a hurricane. >> you could argue it was part of the baked in package o...