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Little more credit than i think some of our politicians do. >> chris: you also have a record under the first budget director george w. bush 43. annual surplus for the first time in $236 billion. when you left two and a half years later, the deficit was 400 billion. you were also there when president bush launched his medicare drug benefit plan that now costs $60 billion a year. i know there was a recession. but do you think it was wise at a time when we were fighting two wars, to have two tax cuts and launch a huge new entitlement? >> well, it wasn't the recession. it was the recession, two wa...

And i give them more credit than i think our politicians do. >> chris: you have a record as the first budget director under president bush 43, george w. bush, when you came in, the country had an annual surplus for the first time in 30 years, $236 billion. when you left, two-and-a-half years later the deficit was $400 billion. you were also there when president bush launched his medicare drug benefit plan that now costs $60 billion a year. i know there was a recession. but do you think it was wise at a time when we were fighting two wars to have two tax cuts and launch a huge new entitlement. ...

Budget director during the clinton administration. >> it's kind of back to the future for jack lu. he was budget director in '98, '99, 2000. let's take a look at what the budget kind of looked like then because, whoa, green, not red. he had something called a surpl surplus, remember that, wolf? $236 billion surplus at the end of jack lu's tenure. i talked to him about it today. he said, yeah, i was looking at these charts today kind of wift fully because i saw all that green there, little pieces of green. he said, look, i kind of miss it. i kind of long for those conditions. but he said the wo...

Years ago, chris, our state unlike most was bankrupt and so we have been working on this for quite some time. you would really be amazed at how much government you would never miss. and we have brought down per capita spending substantially here. but i can prove to you because we measure everything that service levels on those things that matter most are better not worse. and one can only hope that facing the genuine emergency, i think really survival level problem that we are facing fiscally nationally that our leaders in washington will consider a change of. >> chris: on the other hand, sir,...

For george w. bush back in 2001. 2001. when you came in there was an annual surplus of $236 billion. when you left, just over two years later, the country had an annual deficit of $400 billion. >> well, fair enough. and recessions do that. i will just tell you that in two and a half years of service i was never in a debate with a member of congress of either party, by the way where they wanted to spend less and i wanted to spend more. it was always the other way around. and congress got their way on too many ohcations. listen, i agree that more money was spent then than needed to be. we would ...