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In the prison labor debate we rarely hear from inmates. >> what do you say when people say they shouldn't have labor programs in prisons? >> i don't agree with that. i could be out there just walking the yard, be out there just angry. this is a buffer. this gives me an incentive to want to do the right thing, to do something different. the pay can be a lot better. >> i'm pretty sure someone is making money off of it. >> the prison industrial complex could not exist without inmates. the entire prison industry would collapse without large numbers of people to incarcerate. to keep this $265 billi...

We want to keep inmates comfortable. >> that's not what i thought. >> the private company is just one of many companies that profit from correctional institutions. last year, their revenue was an estimated $22 million, much of it from this industry. i'm starting to see why this $265 billion a year industry makes it so hard to change the system. >> basically the united states has done a good job of creating a self-perpetuating prisoner machine. one thing to look at is, their jobs depend on mass incarceration. sinclair lewis said it's hard to explain something to a man when his paycheck depends ...

As it is, with all profiteering factions of any bureaucracy, no one wants to lose their piece of the pie. >> when they call a prison an industrial complex -- >> i hate that term. >> why do you hate that term? >> don't look at it that way. we're not manufacturing automobiles. no one profits from it. jails don't have shareholders. we're not traded on wall street. >> the companies, some of them, maybe. the companies that are part of all of it. $265 billion a year in taxpayer spending means a sure profit for companies like securist, who charge hiked-up fees for prisoners to use phones to call thei...

>> a crooked county? >> yep. northampton is all about their money. you owe them $5, you better give them $5. >> there's no help. how is she supposed to pay child support when she's in jail? >> yeah. >> it makes no sense. >> the reason i was on child support i went to get clean. i was a heroin addict. i was working. my living situation got messed up. i got kicked out. i had to quit my job and now here i am, over $545 an a case that will be closed as soon as i leave here. >> the cost of running the criminal justice system is also enormous for the rest of us. state governments pour money into it,...

$265 billion a year industry makes it so hard to change the system. >> basically the united states has done a good job of creating a self-perpetuating prisoner machine. their jobs depend on mass incarceration. sinclair lewis said it's hard to explain something to a man when his paycheck depends on him not understanding. >> to be fair, not just private companies. yearly $265 billion of our taxpayers money is for keeping prisons and jails going. wages are $38 billion a year, healthcare costs, $12.3 billion and $2 billion on food. as it is, with all profiteering factions -- >> why do you hate thi...