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Overflights of civilian airliners over their territory, perhaps because the airlines pay permits to do that. the fact that the russians allowed these surface-to-air missiles across the border. all these things, if you pull any one of those things out of the chain, the chain breaks and there's no incident. so there's a big picture which extends beyond the wreckage field. >> i want to bring les aben in, miles jump in and you too, richard, les, you currently fly a 777. in terms of the control you have as a pilot over exactly the route you are going to take, what first comes to your mind when you'...

Have taken the plane down, can putin successfully push back with all his propaganda machine to deny some responsibility for this? >> it is going to be hard in the last shoot down. the shootdown of the anton at 26,000 feet and this jet 3593,000 feet indicate the surface-to-air missile, not a shoulder-fired system probably used in most of the other attacks. so, this is a game changer and this focuses the world's attention on what kind of heavy weapons are you providing to these people? so i think it's going to be very difficult for him to step back from this. >> bob, i wonder if i can ask you, y...