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And it's only until civil rights lawyers find out about it and scramble to talk to the parents that the information starts being tracked by anybody but the government. and so this type of behavior of a sweeping policy that's really concerning on a human rights level could happen if there is no due process, if there no access to courts or hearing or attorneys. those things protect human rights violations, civil rights violations, law violations from happening. so those are an important check on that. and i think that everyone should agree that there's got to be space to agree that civil rights ...

Lack of access to courts or hearing officers, the lack of access to attorneys is what allows the government to have a nontransparnlt system. >> right. >> making a sweeping administrative decision to separate parents from their children. and it's only until civil rights lawyers find out about it and scramble to talk to the parents that the information starts being tracked by anybody but the government. and so this type of behavior of a sweeping policy that's really concerning on a human rights level could happen if there is no due process, if there no access to courts or hearing or attorneys. t...