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>> happy dyngus day. >> the outgoing v.a. secretary david shulkin says he was fired last week. the white house says he resigned. we'll explain why that matters next. as a control enthusiast, i'm all-business when i travel... even when i travel... for leisure. so i go national, where i can choose any available upgrade in the aisle - without starting any conversations- -or paying any upcharges. what can i say? control suits me. go national. go like a pro.

Still in the news, the reason has to do with how he became the former v.a. secretary and why it might matter to the white house. here he is on cnn's "new day." >> i came to washington with the commitment to make our system work better for veterans. that's the commitment that i went to work every day. i continue to feel strongly about that. there was no reason why i would resign. >> so why don't you just say you were fired? >> well, i -- i think that's the alternative to resignation. i received a phone call saying that the president wanted to make a change, and that's certainly his prerogative ...

>> now, for its part, the white house says that shulkin resigned, was not fired, which brings us to why this might matter. i'm joined by mike shields and kirsten powers. mike, does it strike you strange that the highest office of the land and they can't seem to delineate whether someone was fired or resigned, and does it in fact matter? >> well, the reason it matters is a legal matter in terms of what the acting v.a. secretary can do. but in terms of what the american public cares about, it doesn't matter. if the president wants you to resign and sort of forces your resignation, the law gets k...

Could have easily produced that? of course this comes against the backdrop of, we know, a president who is famous for saying, you're fired, actually does not like to be the person who fires anyone, which is obviously somewhat ironic. >> right. i mean if he resigned, then there would be a resignation letter, so they should just produce the resignation letter. the implication, i guess, is that there is this federal vacancies act, and if the person resigns or dies, then you can temporarily fill the position. so it does have some implications for how you get the next v.a. secretary. so the white h...

>> i want michael to respond. >> then i don't know what is. >> the president's -- for immigration and border security don't just balance on a border wall. he also was talking about chain migration. he was talking about diversity visas and other reforms that are necessary to make our immigration system more effective and to protect our nation. but if you think you can just lay out some kind of an expenditure for a border wall and not get the rest of the reform, that's not the president you're dealing with. donald trump wants true reform, and we'll get it. >> he talked about daca. >> we got to e...